Gina Schock

this time? Well, um, it's something that I've been wanting to do for decades and I the thought of trying to get all of those photographs and ephemera that I have collected over the years was like overwhelming. So I was looking for a person to help me do it. I finally found the right person to help me, this guy, Steve in l A. He came up, I pulled out all of my photographs, had him all in in my living room floor. He walked and he said, Gina, this is a credit. Sure, this is incredible. We got to

go right up. We're going to write up uh what he called it, what he caught makeook. Yeah, Well we're gonna do make a coffee table photo coffee table book anyway, So we we wrote wrote up a what do you call why can't I think of that? Proposal? Proposal Jane, there's christ my senior moment lasted for ten minutes. Okay, yes, a proposal for a photo book. So we wrote one up.

We set it to a couple of book publishers and we right away we got back, you know, right away that black Dog Hachette was interested and talked to them. They wanted to do the photo book. But then they started talking to me about, Hey, we used to feel like writing a little and I was That was of course overwhelming to me. Once again, I'm not a writer. I don't write books. But when we started putting all these photographs together, it's, um, it became very easy to

write about what was happening that time. It was very fluid, very very easy because when I look at these photographs, I remember everything that was going on, and you know what I didn't remember, like maybe perhaps dates and where I may have been. I keep a daily planner that I've had. I've had daily planners since seventy nine, so I referred back to them for dates and places, and

it was invaluable. I mean, I had everything written down so I could refer to that, and I just and then I have all the September I had, buttons and posters, you know, you name it, I've got it. I just all this stuff means something to me. I'm I'm a very sentimental person. I like I keep cards and letters and things from people that I love. And you know, this is a part of my history and a part of my life, and I wanted to keep it, you know. Um,

And so I have it all my possession. Finally found the right person, help we put it together, and boom it happened. Okay, can you make any money with a coffee table? Book? Ers? Just a labor of love for you and the fans. It is a labor of love. I don't I'm gonna want up spending more money than I make on this whole this whole endeavor. Um, But you know what this, I know it's a pichete, but

it really has been a labor of love. Uh. Going through all of these photos, it just made me so grateful, so happy that that this has been my life and I've captured it and the girls in the band with photographs, and now I can share these photographs with our fans. The general public. You get to see what I was

seeing a band member, someone in the band, you know. Um. And then when I started writing about this, I feel like anybody that picks this book up and starts to look at the photos and reads a little bit, it's gonna want to read the whole thing because it's honest and it's true. It's ask anybody. I'm a pretty upfront person, no bullshit with me, so and I write that way and these are my words and these are my photos,

and um, I'm really proud of agree with you. I mean, and first I'm looking through the pictures, but you get intrigued in the story. It's anything but a burden. You cover the major points you could even want to know more. Now, let's talk about the ephemer and the photos. Bill Wyman of the Stones famously kept one of everything. The irony being all these years later he's not auctioning some of that off. Was that your procedure? Did you tend to keep one of everything? Um? It wasn't as though I

was grabbing one of everything. I was just grabbing whatever was in reach within my reach. Um, I didn't necessarily cover all everything that came out, but I do have buttons. I just and if I could grab one thing, I grab as many as I can. Whatever. I just these are all memories. I like looking at it. This stuff. It's it's it's my life, you know. And okay, the Bill by the way, I had the Bill Wyman book,

which and it's really beautiful. Okay, if you could only keep two pieces of memorabilia, they'd be what uh, they'd be the poster that I have of when we play with the Rolling Stones in Rockford, Illinois on October one one, I believe. And it's a huge, big poster that I had framed that I have it in my office. That is worth a million bucks to me. You can put that in the casket with me, you know. I love that.

Um And you know what, I guess the other thing would have to be my book because it's it's taken me forty years to get this together. So it's all right there. You know. It's funny because uh, at one point a couple of years ago, I threw out all my lamin It's it just became. I didn't want to be one of those guys. But I've only the couple. One is all access to the Rolling Stones. That is really cool. He got it. Yeah, of course it is. And you know what, I keep all my lambin It's stupid.

I got a million of them, you know. And I don't know if I can let go of all this stuff. I mean, I don't know there's I mean, I'm not a hoarder. My house is not like a crazy space, you know, where you have to figure out how to walk. Uh. In my home, I have everything in its place. I'm a virgo. I'm very organized, and I don't know. These things are just important to me and I and I

still have all the labments. I keep them from every tour and from any other you know band that I've ever going to see when they give you a v I P P S. I have all that stuff. Okay, you talked about going to l A. Where is all this stuff? Is it in your house now? Is it in storage? It's in my house. Where is your house?

I don't need the address, but the generally I live in San Francisco, but I did live in l A for twenty seven years, and uh, I moved to just go in to us in five um and I bought a nice little Victorian up here and I'm having a nice life and I go to l A to work. Um, I do as much work as I can up here, but l A is sort of the home base for the Go Goos, and when anything's going on, that's where

we all meet each other. We all meet up there, uh Like, for instance, we're gonna be meeting their uh the beginning of December to start rehearsing for the for the seven shows that we have at the end of the year. So that's home base for the band. So how did you decide to move to San Francisco and after all those years in l A? Give me a direct comparison to those two. Well, the thing is is, I I felt like I had lived there long enough and I was starting to become like a recluse. It

was weird. I just I got tired of the whole scene in the town. Um, and I wanted a place where I could walk, where I could step out my front door. You know. It was it was either gonna be San Francisco to New York and San Francisco one out. Because the weather. I love the weather here in Sandarich is because my favorite weather in the country. I love it. It's kind of like it feels like fall all the time, and that fall rolls in every night. Man, I love

the weather here. So um, this was an easy thing to do, moving from l A up to San Francisco. And it's so close, you know. I mean I can hop down the Standardist go you know, it's at our flight or drive down, which I prefer to do. I like driving. Okay, So now that you're in San Francisco, are you a recluse or forgetting COVID? Leave that era out and you've been in San Francisco for a while, are you the type of person who goes out? Are

you still end up staying home anyway? I do go out, but I am kind of more of a homebody, to be honest with you. Um, I love getting my place the way that I want it. I'm comfortable, it's it's by safe paven. I don't know if that's because I spent so many years in the public, you know, And I just I value my time. I'm honestly kind of private, um, and I appreciate the time that I can have to myself, uh in a place that feels safe. So what do you do in your house? What do I do? Oh?

I write to write a book, like you know, made in Hollywood. That's what I worked on the last year and a half. Um, I'm constantly doing something on you know, I'm constantly on the phone and doing a ton of emails. Every day. I get up, I walk my dog. I do do that around the neighborhood. I have a lovely The neighborhood I live in is fantastic and it's sort of a neighborhood with all sort of a lot of kids and dogs. And I'm up on a hill. Uh I. And if i'm if I'm not in the house, I'm

out walking around. When I'm in the house, I'm I stay busy. I don't know. I cook. You know what do you do when your your home? Your cook You clean it up, You do your emails every day? You know your friends stop buying, make dinner or yeah, okay. Do you have a significant other? Um? Well, yeah, I'd say that I have a person in my life. He is uh, He's become very important in my life. And his name is Wendell. And he you know, I took care of my parents when they were sick, and I

brought him here take care of him. I'm sorry a minute. Wendell took care of my father for the last three years of its life. And he's a very important person in my life because I watched what a real man can do. You know, he was a wonderful god. He is a wonderful guy. And I'm sorry, but we became very close and I can't imagine not ever being in my life. You know, we have a very deep connection. He's definitely my soul mate. I'm sorry. Now you talk

about your parents. I know it's a tough subject, but your father's passed you you said when your parents, well, was your mother ill and she's still with us? Or she going? Mom? My mom thought about three years ago and they were like my rocke. You know. I I had a very type connection with my parents. I mean, I feel like I owe everything to them because they

gave me. They instilled in me, uh to be in the mind that that that I could achieve anything, that anything was possible if I put my mind to it. I was was willing to put the work into it that it required. And so I feel like a lot

of just everything that I am and I've become. Um, I wanted to uh that that this was my way of paying them back by trying to do something that they would be proud of and you know, and I feel like I succeeded in that and it it brought me great joy to have them involved and bring them into my life when I became a rock star, you know. Um, it was wonderful to have them around. And you know, sitting on the side of the stage at Madison Square Gardener at the Hollywood Bowl, all these things were very

important to me. And I know that they were super proud, you know, and I felt like I had to take care of them. And they started getting sick, you know, I had to step up, and so I moved them from Baltimore, which is where I grew up for the last six years of their lives, and I, uh took care of them. Did they live with you in the Victorian or do they have a separate places? Yeah, because it's it's it's two it's two stories. And uh so I had the downstairs uh fixed up for them, made

to make it safe. You know. I had the bathroom redone and the floors, get rid of the carpets, all that kind of stuff. Um. Yeah, so I had it. I had it fixed up for them, and and it was great to be with them the last year of their life and see them every single day. Um. And I also, you know, had caregivers and where that's where Wendell came into the picture because he was I don't know what I would have done with that, this man. And how did you meet Wendell to have him involved

with your parents and another caregiver? You know. I mean, look, I don't want to get into this big deal back caregivers, but it is the toughest thing. If anybody has to take care of their parents or anything, you know, or a loved one, it is very difficult to find a good caregiver. You go through tons of them. Anybody will tell you that. Um. And because I you know, it's my parents, they gotta they gotta have the best, you know.

And I was just watching all the time. If I saw something I didn't like, to get rid of them. That's it they're at you know. Um. And Wendell, through another caregiver, said oh I got somebody that can help, you know, because I did. It's a twenty four hour shift, so so you know, somebody for twelve hours and somebody for another twelve hours. And Wendell came in that way, and he was like a star man. He was just he and my dad had this connection. My mom had passed,

but he had a connection with my father. They were best friends. And uh, it's very important to me. Now let's go back. You tell you san Francisco, your friends might come over, you know, when somebody goes towards the other end of the spectrum and age very hard to make new friends. So who were these friends who you're seeing in San Francisco? Did you know him previously or you met him since you've been living there. I've had a couple of friends up here, not not many, but

that I have made some friends. I you know, like I said, I'm a little private, so I'm not like out there trying to meet friends, trying to meet people all the time. Um you know, you meet someone else through a friend and and I have a small group of friends up here that are that are really great because honestly, Bob, all the majority of my friends are all in l A. I lived there twenty seven years, Okay, so you know that's sort of home base really besides

where I grew up my Baltimore. But um, yeah, I've taken my time meeting people up here, and I feel like it's some very quality friends here, not quantity quality, Bob. You know. Yeah, let's go back to Wendell. Your closest one thing, which was surprising in the book is you go into your c shoes and relationships, which a lot of people tend not to. So what was it like being a rock star, having crushes, having fans? What was it like being a woman? We don't hear that too much.

We hear the guys perspective. Yeah, well, it was just like being a human being that has dropped into being a rock star and you're and you're young, you're in your early twenties, and you're having the time of your life, and you're making good money and you're playing in front of thousands of people every night. I mean, it's a dream come true. So you know, you have to figure out what you want to partake in. And you know,

thank god, I'm still here to tell the tale. But of course I did a lot of stupid things that I would never do in retrospect. But that's just par for the course, I think. You know, Uh, it's it's you're like on a wild ride and you're loving it, and why not it does? It doesn't happen to everyone, you know, it's okay. But you know, let's be a

little specific. You You you talk about famous musicians, you have crushes on, the people you have relationships on, you know, the men they famously interact with women in different cities before the cell phone camera, and you're certainly a star before that where they have relationship with fans that might be sexual only. What's it like from a woman's perspective, It's the same. It's exactly the same, exactly the same.

You might have casual sex with a fan in St. Louis and that and then next night you're in Kansas City. I have done that. I would admit to have have done that. Not my proudest moment. Okay, let's go back and taking here your parents. You know, the dollars can add up. How are you doing financially? If you never earned another dollar, could you make it to the end? I think I could. Yeah. So the money or assets you have, are you the person me manages that or

do you have somebody for How involved are you in that? Well? To tell you the truth, I'm now starting to get involved in everything. As I said I was, you know, taking care of my parents would just consumed me. And I'm starting to feel like now it's my time to get myself back and you know, do what I'm doing right now, um as they would want it. Um you know, I don't know. I feel like this is just my time to sort of regain things that I might have moments of time where that I couldn't be uh, that

I couldn't fully be in. And as far as the money thing goes, I have people that I've been with for years and years and they've handled my money and my parents and my brother. You know, I feel pretty comfortable with that set up. Yeah, I mean money, you know, Bob, I don't even like talking about it because money is not important to me. I mean it is, but it's like I've never done anything for money. I've done it

because I love to do it. I wrote this book because I love doing this, because I love taking these photographs. It wasn't I don't, it's not what motivates me. I agree, But you know, we're reaching an age. You know, if you're a performer, if you're physically able, you can work forever. But there I've unfortunately known some of my parents friends in their eighties and nineties, they were out of money, you know, and you can't get a job when you're

in your eighties or nineties. So I know a lot of people who I know a lot of people who are unprepared. That's why I asked that question, not that you will Christ you know, Bob, I don't know how long I would have lived, but I think right now I'm okay. Um I. You know, it is a great thing that that that the Gogs are still able to play as much as we all want to. I myself

like to play a lot. The rest of the girls don't feel that way, or some of the girls don't, but um, I mean this being in the go Gos has allowed me a lifestyle that I only dreamed of. And you know it's I feel like I look at all this stuff, when I look at this book, I feel like I've been on this incredible journey that has where I've met people that like I grew up. I grew up loving David Bowie, idolizing him or idolizing the Stones and and Charlie Watts. I get to meet these people,

you know, hang out with them. Uh. It's a big deal for me because I've always always been about music. I love everything music, you know, every time I got When I was a kid, I spent on buying instruments, or buying tickets to concerts, or buying UM albums, you know, and I loved I'd always spend extra money to get the British imports because I really loved British music. Um. You know, this has been like this magical journey and I look at this and I can't believe that it's me,

Like because I'm the biggest fan I really am. Okay, let's just go for one second. You talked about playing in a perfect world, how often would you want to play me? I could be on tour. I could be on toward ten months of the year easily. And if you're not on the road, do you play the drums? Now that's that's not how long does it take you get back in the groove? So what I'm gonna do

what I always do. However long we have set up to the band rehearse to go on tour, I usually go two weeks before that and just play on my own. I you know, I have our shows are taped, so I'll just I'll put that, put my headphones on to play along with the show. UM, so that I get like at least a good hour and fifteen minutes of straight playing UM. And that's what I'll start doing before

we do this this December show shows UM. And then of course before before we do UM the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I'll just probably take a couple of days where I'll just sit down and go over the three songs, just to get loose and limber and remember how it feels, get that muscle memory going, you know. Talk about going back to the other point about meeting your heroes. Have occasionally gone somewhere with my girlfriends. Just why are you talking to that guy said he was

the drummer. He was a bass player in this band. You don't understand. And when I get it in my inbox, same way. But one thing I've known is some of these people are good when you meet them. Some of them are not so good. Okay, some of the household names, very sensitive people. You hang with them, they are not fun. So what hey, I don't know many musicians like that, Bob. You might be talking about actors or something. I don't know. But the musicians that I everybody have met, they've always

been wonderful. Let's not talk musicians, Let's talk Starrs. You mentioned David Bowie, not the person in the band that they may be just as responsible, but the front person or the singer songwriter. Okay, Yes, there's a musician mentality. All musicians get along. It's different from the everything. But I'm talking about the household names. I mean I I have been backstage with Cat Stevens couldn't be nicer. I've been backstage with a couple of times with people who

are the most famous in the world, and they're jerks. Okay, No, I don't. I don't want to mention me. Know you're asking me, Hey, let me ask you, Okay, Okay, I I think that I don't know if I'll spill the negative, but I'll go with the I'll work my way up to it, you know, just like I'll get you to. In terms of someone who lives up to the legend, my most positive experiences have been with Steven Tyler. He

is that guy. He's fantastic, that made his full life and he doesn't mind throwing around compliments you know exactly, and then you know, but you know, he'll leave a message on the phone that is just wild, and then you pick him up and he'll go straight into you know, it's like that who he is. He's always nice, he lives up to the legend. And we've crossed pans a couple of times. And I think Jane met him at once.

I don't know where it was she met him, and he said that he called us like rock goddesses or rock icons or something, and Jane Coke came back and said, you're not gonna believe with Stephen. Stephen Tyler said about us, We're like U Steven Tyler. Yeah, Oh my god, are you kidding? I love Aerosmith so much. I love that band. Name the two best experiences of meeting famous musicians? Well, David Bowie. So you met Bowie? What were the circumstances?

Did you have a conversation? All right? So I've met him a couple of times, but the first time I met him it was actually the most the best of all the times was the first time because I got to really hang out with him and spend time talking with him, even though I was scared, shipless, I could barely speak, but it was We had done a show at where the hell in Sam in New York City. I don't even know if we had a record deal yet, but we did a show at when Dell what's the

name of that venue? He looked it up the other day. I couldn't think of it in New York City, God, damn it not whatever. I'll come back to that. But at our show was John Lennon. Where was the Where was the venue that we played at? When I said John Lennon was at? Was there? And oh the Ritz you remember the Rits Okay, so we were playing there. So it was John Lennon, Yoko Ono um um um, David Bowie, all the dudes from Manus, all the guys from Manus because we had just finished playing with them

in England, and the who else, Pete Townsend. They were at our show and after the show they came back. In the night, they came back and we've met them in the VI I P Room at the reds Now. Unfortunately John and Yoko had left it during the encore and it was but only a couple of months later when he was murdered. Um, so you know that was horrible, that whole thing. But I didn't get to meet him, but did get to hang out with David and his assistant Coco, who was seen to be with him. At

all times. Um, and there was a lot going on. We were all for taking in various uh substances. Uh. It was fun, it was great. It was perfect for the time. He was such a gentleman, very conversational, and he was super cool. He was He was everything I had hoped he would be. This is really super cool guy, very approachable. He wasn't a dick. It was a nice guy. And Pete, God Blessing. Pete was was kind of out of it. He was draped on two He had a woman on under under each arm sort of holding him up,

walking him around. I think he hadn't had a little too much that evening. And the guys from man is raw about saying hi to everybody because we just finished toward with them, and uh my, the bass player, Mark Bedford was my boyfriend at the time, so it was all great playing the drums and all of a sudden seeing John lynnon I mean my body spikes. Would you

tell the story? Hey? Hey, I mean I couldn't see him or anything when I was playing, But to know that he actually came to a go go show and saw us play, you know, that's a big one in my book. That's a big one. Okay, so meeting David Bowie was great. One other rock star great experience, oh well, meeting the Rolling Stones meaning Stones when we opened for them, and getting to spend a little time with Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman. Although Charlie was my hero growing up,

you know what I mean. If it wasn't for Charlie wattson John Bottom, I don't know if I would continue playing drums um They were I mean, I idolized them. And when I met him, it was another one of those moments where I, you know, could hardly speak, but I did because I had to, had to say something. And once again I don't know if it's just being English or what the deal is, but he was such a gentleman, very very quiet and soft spoken, perfect gentleman.

Do you remember what you spoke about? Hell now, No I don't, No, I don't, but it doesn't matter. Uh. I was in his presence and I actually got to sit on his drum kit and full around with his drums at sound check, which was a big thrill for me. And I've said this story many times, but that's when his drum text said to me Gina that that that rug that his drums any one. The drums are pittings compared to what that rug cost. And in fact, that

was so that was so very Charlie Watts, wasn't it. Yeah, yeah, of course it was. Okay, let's go back to Baltimore. How many generations was your family in Baltimore? Oh, Christ, I don't know really. I uh well, let's see my mom's sided the family. My grandfather Mitchell Muskawsky, Mitch Mskowski, he was. He came over when he was a boy on a boat, cabin boy or where the leased to call him, and he he came over to the support. Baltimore is where he got off, and you know, grew, grew,

became a man and met my grandmother, Jane Hill. Her family was from Ireland, um, and that's who I'm named after, Regina Hill Um. And my father's side of the family, uh uh, the Shocks were all German. And I actually found out that my father's aunts and uncles were in the vaudeville circuit um and so there was a little bit of that show biz h in my blood. Maybe, Okay. I always thought when you broke the shock was a

made up name. So that is the family German it's german Man and it was it was shocked when it was in Germany. It wasn't changed in America. You don't know, do you know what? I'm not positive, but it's something I want to look up. I think that our name was shook sc h O O K and it got changed the STO c K. I think it was shook. But you know what, now that you remind me of that, I want to look up. And I don't know why I think that, but there must have been something that

I found, uh that leads me in that direction. Okay, how did your parents meet? Oh? Well they were. My mom went to Catholic school twelve years, as did I. I did my brother. Um. My mom and dad met when she was in high school and they were high school sweethearts. When she graduated high school, Uh, she was eighteen and married my father, who was twenty one. And my father was the first sweetheart she ever had. She

had never had a boyfriend. She met my father and that was that and they lived the next seventy two years together in marital bliss. They were the most beautiful couple you'd ever want to me because they were so in love. I mean, that doesn't happen often. But I'm going to tell you what minds. Like the storybook thing, Like, my parents were crazy about each other, and they were both really good looking, and they loved to dance, and they loved to get dressed up and like to go

to New York and shake it up. You know, they were really happening. So what did they do for a living? Um, my father worked on the waterfront. It was a steved or or alongshore or whatever, you know on the waterfront. When you don't watch that film, that's my father, Marlon Brando, that's my father. Because my dad was offered a lot of money to go to New York and work take care of you know, work on the docks up there, and he wouldn't do it because we all know it's

run by the mafia. All that was and uh so it's not run by the mafia in Baltimore. Uh, not so much. It wasn't at the time, not so much. New York was boom. That was it. You were in when you went to New York and you can't get out once you get in. We all know that. So, um no, Dad said no to this huge opportunity, this opportunity to make a hell of a lot more money. And I remember that it was a big deal about moving to New York and he finally said no, he

wasn't going to do it. Stayed in Baltimore. He was the you know, he became the head of the pier one um um and treated everybody the way they're supposed to be treated. Because there were some folks that worked doc workers that signed an X on their paycheck. Okay, um, and my father treated everyone the same. Um. And my mom, she was a model and then a beautician and then a homemaker, and then she decided she wanted to uh

hang out with my dad a little bit more. So. My father least some property right next to the pure One where he worked on Clinton Street in Baltimore, which I got a story about. I don't tell you about the wire about the building that he built. He was a builder. He could build anything anyway. Um. He least this property and he built a little carryaut shop so that my mother could work there. And he was right

next door. And you know, I worked there during the summer and the hour from from six am to three pm. And that's what I would do every summer. And my mom did that for many years. And then she step four with that, and so we sold that business, and then Mom became just a homemaker. You know, she was very good. Her cooking was really good. And Okay, So what kind of neighborhood you grow up in? Very blue collar, middle class neighborhood, Dundocum. Everyone knew each other. Uh, we

left our doors open at night. Uh. We'd sometimes sleep on the front porch when it was too hot before we could afford air conditioning. Um. And it was I really had an idyllic childhood. I really, I really have to say that. It was all kind of beautiful. And what kind of kid were you? Shy? The group was a rotten kid. My mother said she loved rotten kids. I was bad, not really bad, but I was rambunctious, you could say whatever. I I was always okay. I grew up from a tomboy, grew up with I didn't

have any girls in the neighbor hood. It was all guys. So I grew up riding bicycles with them, you know what I mean, and running around and busting windows out, and you know, I had a little dirt bike all that kind of stuff. You know, I didn't think there were no girls you know, until in high school that I got to have other girlfriends, you know, but man, it was a wonderful childhood. And uh you know, my my, my dad's mom lived with us for many years and

it was all good. It was always and it was our house was sort of the main base on the street because my father used to love to take all the kids on hay rides and you bring them down our shore home and you know there were something else. Let me tell you about they were really something else. Um, okay, so you had a vacation home on the shore. Yeah,

that was chest be Baby. My mom and dad had to borrow a thousand dollars from uh my my father's sister, and they bought property on the chest Peak Bag and my father built the home, the shore home down there with a couple of buddies from work. He'd work on the weekends and built this home that is still there, that is gorgeous on a beautiful piece of property, um, right on the water. And uh so we'd spend a lot of time there every summer um fishing and crabbing,

and they would have their friends down. They'd be drinking gin and tonic and the kids would be running around you can have a little sip of that, and oh man, it was just wonderful, you know. And he he had a Super eight camera that he would take. He would take pictures on them because he and Mom would go to New York a lot and they were on the prices right and Mom want to make a maxstol and he won a super eight camera. So that's when he started taking super rate videos. I had all that film, Uh,

put it on the DVD, so I had that. I have all those super rates. Okay, so your brother is older. What was he like growing up? Oh my god, Well, my brother's seven years older than I am, so he was protective of me. It was my brother and my cousins that lived across the street, Henry Dennis, and I ran with them. Well, they hadn't sort of take me. My brother had to sort of watch out for me. Um and I just ran around with them and he

was good. And then then came a time when you know, he was like nineteen or twenty and he was out the door all the time. So I was just sort of left my own devices, which was sitting in my bedroom putting headphones on and playing with every song that I loved. Um, I was just immersed in music. Well, what what would happened in the next fifty years for your brother? What's he been up to? My brother, he

got he went to college. My parents were disappointed I didn't go to college, but I made that all right, so they were happy with the ending story here. But yeah, my brother is a pretty bright guy. UM. He wanted to be a professor. UM, and he did work out that way. He spent a lot of time traveling, and then he worked on the waterfront. Excuse me with my father, and you make a lot of money working on the waterfront.

And my brother worked there for like ten years and made it, made a ton of money, and bought a bunch of apartment buildings. UM in a neighborhood uh in Holland Town in Baltimore was right over Patterson Park, which is this huge, big, beautiful park. I bought a bunch of buildings that were facing the park. And at the time it was kind of ghettot but it changed over the years, UM, and it butted right up against the neighborhood called Fell's Point, which is kind of famous. You

may have harder Fells Point in Baltimore. UM. So John has his apartment buildings and that's they're all paid off and he's living the life. You know, he travels and does whatever he likes and he's good. My brother is good. He I didn't get along that great, but it's okay. Did he get married, did he have kids? No? No, neither one of us are married. It's like, you know what Bob, I think about I don't know why, because I think the institution of marriage is kind of great,

but it wasn't. It never worked out for me that way. And my brother, I guess he's the same. I don't know. I kind of think maybe it had a lot to do with growing up seeing the perfect marriage. There's nothing that you could ever you could never compete with that. I don't know. You know, you tend to, you know, when you're in a relationship, you tend to say, oh, is he liked my father and she liked my mother? Whatever?

You do those things. I don't know why. You just do and UH be tugh to to live up to the expectations that you have, of of of of some of of what you would think you would want your other, your significant other to be like. When you watch the perfect love affair happened, your entire life. And did your parents ever lament that they didn't have grandkids? Yeah, my mom, And I said, Mom, listen, if I had grandkids, I'd never be able to hang out with you as much

as I do. He wouldn't be able to do all these It's true, we wouldn't be able to do all these fantastic things that we do together. I bring my mother on tour, on tour with us. She'd be on the tour bus with the girls and and they all loved her, you know. And my parents they were there for everything. They were in a lot of shows. The

band knew my parents very very well and loved them. Okay, being as Steven Doore, that's a as you mentioned, lucrative because because it's so physical, h did did have an attrition to it. You know, we're father and brother and their body somewhat beat up because they did. My dad's body was beat up. Um. Yeah, he had terrible authoritis. Um. But my father was like a little bull man. He was strong as a horse. He loved work. He loved

to work. Okay, I mean they had to pay him to get him to quit the job, to quit being a Steven Doore, you know, they had to offer him a lot of money to stop working so they could bring younger dude and to do what he does. My dad loved to work. He didn't like to sitting still. He was always building something. He was always doing something. And I tend to be more like my father because I like to stay busy. I like to Sitting around for me is like death. It's like sucks, man. I

like to be busy all the time. Okay, so what were your first exposures to music? Oh? Well, you know, my parents were always playing music and they loved the dance, which used to embarrass the hell out of my brother and I they started dancing, we were so embarrassed. Um. But they listened to a lot of big band music. I grew up with big band stuff. They loved count Bastie, Cat Callaway, all these who you know, everybody, Benny Goodman,

you know, anybody was playing big band stuff. They were always playing and dancing too, which was hard to take, but yeah, it was that house was full of music all the time. And how did you get into popular music as opposed to the big band Because I still love big band stuff. That's kind of some of my favorite genre of music. Uh that Uh, I just it

was I was drawn to it. I don't know, man, I When I was a kid, Uh, you know, I had that little transistor radio, you know, am stuck to my ear waiting to hear my favorite songs of the day, you know. Um. And then I called into the radio station and request something that I wanted to hear and wait, you know, seven hours to hear at two o'clock in the morning. Um. You know. I had that transistor radio under the covers, um. Um. You know. And as I got a little bit older, I just I started to

want to go. After my brother took me to my first concert, which was led Zeppelin opening for the Who, and then it was NonStop. That was an addiction that never ended. Many people have a transitional moment where they really get the bug. Was it the Beatles? Was it something you heard on the radio? What made you go all in? You remember, yeah, seeing led Zeppelin opening for the Who in nine nine Mary with the post pavilion. Yeah, but you were listening to you were listening to the

radio before that. What got you started doing that? I don't know, it just it spoke to me. It was something that that I felt that was important. To me. You know, I don't know why do you love doing what you do? It just it speaks to you. It touches you in a way that other things don't. I knew as a kid that I wanted to be involved in music. I didn't know what part I would play, but I, like I said, it spoke to me, It

touched me, It was important in my life. Okay, so tell me how you ended up going to that led Zeppelin who gig. My brother had the babysit may and so he took me and I just remember, you know what, see led Zeppelin. That was our first tour of the States, and that was mind blowing. But then to see the who come out and play and then destroy their instruments at the end of the show. I mean, I'm a kid, I'm eleven years old or eleven or twelve, and I that blew my mind. I was like, I want to

be on that stage. I don't care what I'm doing, if I'm singing or playing the dramas or playing bass, whatever it is, I want to be up on that stage. This is what I want to do. I never thought about gender. That didn't I didn't even think about that for a second, Oh I'm a girl. That never occurred to me. It was like, I want to do what they do. I love this, this is what I want to do. So you went home. What was your first step? Did you buy the Zeppelin album? Do you get an instrument? No?

I uh. First think for me was I got a base a bass guitar because I thought, oh, it's only four strings, that will be easy. And it didn't. It wasn't. I wasn't crazy about it. So I bought a guitar, took a couple of lessons, and that was too slow. I could like listen to the things bob and figure out how to play it. You know. I think I have an ear. That was a gift, I think. And then I thought, well, I'll try drums. So I saved up all my allowance money and I bought a drum

set and what kind of drum set, what brand? And that they were leto supremes. And I bought him at Old Man Petro and his his music store up on Eastern Avenue. To ride my bicycle up there. And you remember how much you paid? I don't, but I bet you I have. I think I had those receipts around here, somewhere. I didn't save it. I had that. I'm not kidding you, I do have that bob um. I got those drums and put my head phone and I had the drums

set up in my bedroom and I started playing. And I knew right away that this was going to be the instrument that I would choose to to spend my time trying to get good at it, you know, be better at And because it felt really easy, it felt like I didn't have to think about it. Uh, it felt it felt easy. And you know, when you're eleven or twelve years thirteen years old, you don't want to you don't have time to mess around with stuff. You just want to go out and do it. And so

playing drugs, I didn't have to think. I just put headphones one and it came very naturally to me. So you never took a lesson, never took a lesson. Okay, so you're playing at home. Then how do you get in a band? Oh? Well, first of all, there weren't a lot of girls playing drums during that early seventies, late sixties, early seven, so that it was easy to get in bands. And I'll tell you what I was. I remember being in a couple of bands and these

and the guys it was always guys, um. You know, they were in their twenties and they would have to sneak me in the backtor because I was under age, um, and they were all doing we're doing covers, you know, um. And that went on for several years, and then I got into a band and these were guys in my neighborhood called we and our band was called Scratch and Sniff, and we were Baltimore's first punk new wave band and it was great. I learned a lot from George and Charles.

They were really based on guitar player, really good musicians, and it opened up my world to like Brian Eno and Roxy music, and you know, I started listening to more than just Aero Smith or Leonard Skinner or the Stems or the Beetles all of that. Um. And yeah, it was pretty incredible. We would do we played four sets a night. We do two sets of original songs

and two sets of covers. That was a big deal and we got We did a couple of shows at the Marble Bar, which was the premier punk club to play in in Baltimore because like bands would come in like the ramoons or talking heads. They play at the Marble Bar. So that was a big deal. And were you getting paid? Yeah, but who remembers what that was. It didn't I didn't care what if we were making any money. It was just to be able to do My question is if you got paid, what did you

do with What did you do with the money. I probably bought clothes. I don't really remember, but I would imagine that. You know, I probably bought some really cool bell bottoms or something. I don't know. Yeah, I probably brought clothes. Okay. So and what was your experience with Catholic school? Now you're in high school, you're in a how's that going? Yeah? I got suspended, you know, um, but it was you know, I was just used that the nuns used to scare the ship out of me.

I mean they were they were tough, and I guarantee a man, I did my homework every night. It was kind of a drag because everybody in the neighborhood when they get home from school, you know, they were out playing and having fun. But I'd be in there doing my homework because I was afraid of those nuns coming into school the next day and getting smacked in the facer, having my hands mashed with a pointer. You know, I

mean they were rough, they were tough. But I'll tell you what, Um, they're part of the reason why I had the work ethic that I do. Uh. You know, it's like if I you know, if you're gonna, I feel like you're gonna do something, do it right. Don't mess around with the half fast situation here? Why bother? Um? And you know, so it was it was part. It all worked out well in the end. Although I must say that I would like to send by psychiatrists bill to the Catholic Church because they did screw me up

in many ways, Like they filled me with guilt. I was always I'm still guilty about everything. I don't know, I don't know. So that was gonna be my next question. So you go to the therapist, Yeah as an adult, I know. So how long have you gone? How frequently? When did you start? Oh, I've been doing it for many many years. I haven't. I haven't done it for

a while though. I go not that frequently. But I did, like in the nineties, go a lot because you know, I had to deal with like the guilt of making it and you know, oh my god, what people think and all you know, it's there's a there's a Catholic guilt and it's a real thing. It's it's real, um and it definitely definitely got me. How does it affect you today? If it all, it still does affect me. Honestly, I feel like I'm not worthy of things. You know,

It's weird. It's like I put the time and I do all the right things, but then I feel like, oh, you know, you're not really worthy. You know there's people that deserve that more than you do. Then I then I draw strength from what the way my parents raised me, that we're sort of kick ass and yes you can do anything. This crazy dichotomy, you know what I mean. But and they set meid to Cathoit school. So, uh, I don't know. Okay, are you still a believer? Do

you still go to church? No? I don't go to church. I might go a couple of times a year or something. But when I walk into a church, I feel, uh it's a good place that's to meditate or something. I you know, I choose to believe what I believe. I Uh, I feel like I'm a spiritual person, but organized religion is a little disturbing to me. Um, I don't know. I'm sort of mixed up about it all, to be honest with you. Uh okay, So why did you get

suspended in high school? Oh? Jesus because the disciplinarian nune doctor. Her her name was John Helene. How do you like that? I just I don't believe I remembered her name, John Helene. She was such a bit um. She didn't like me because I was. I spent half my time trying to figure out how to get how to get into trouble without getting caught, and she knew that, and she she's I was. I was suspended for having a bad attitude. There was nothing that I actually did that she caught

me at. And actually my mother and father went up there and we're like, what do you mean a bad attitude? What is what does that mean? You know? It's crazy. Catholic school was sucking nuts. I gotta say, so did you gra? Did you graduate? Yeah? I did, Yeah, of course I did. And he fought of going to college or like, I'm done? What was going through your head? No? I mean I you know, I couldn't wait to finish school so I could just starting playing in clubs and stinky,

dirty clubs. All I want to do was be, you know, a musician, be a drummer, and and and and work and make some money, and you know, try to find a band that I fit in that really spoke to me. And you know, Scratch and Sniff was a band that that I love those guys and I loved where we were going. Um, But after I'm gonna get ahead of myself because after that, I got the opportunity to work with Eat the egg Lady from John Waters film Let's Let's wait. I want to get into that. Let's go back.

One thing you put in your book is you basically went to see everybody. Tell me about your tell me about your concert going experience, where you got the money for tickets, Who was good, who was bad? Well, let me tell you something. I had albums full of photographs with my instematic camera from all the continents I went to. And I learned that, okay, they played, if they played, the bottom were Civic Center, the hotel they were going to stay and was gonna be the holiday and which

was right next door. So I was like, okay, how am I going to meet these people? I got to meet him. You know, I need to learn from them, right. I'd see him on stage, I was just knocked out. So I would go across the street and try to get their autographs and take a photo with them. And I figured out that the way to get to meet them was you go up the service elevator and you

go on the floor. You get on the phone, and you asked to be You asked to be connected to either the bass player of the drummer, because they were usually the guys in the band that gave their real name. They didn't have an alias, and so I would ask for them and i'd get the room. I get like a four digit number. The last three digit was the room number. So I would go and I'd have somebody with me, you know, a friend, and we'd rap on the door. I'd say, can I take a photograph? Can

I take a picture with you? And they always said yes. But I remember, like Paul Rodgers um for Bad Company, I have a photograph of him where he's putting his arm up because he didn't want his picture taken, but I took it anyway. And like I had pictures of Ted Nugent and Aery Smith and at Rod Stewart, and yes, and you name it. I was taking I was taking pictures, and I was meeting these people and saying, I want to do that, the guys in Jay Giles band, I

mean I it was all I lived for, Bob. I'm getting excited just talking about where did you get the money for the tickets? Save up my allowance? Dishes, doing dishes, cleaning the house every weekend, cut the grass, taking the garbage out, doing anything I could to make the money to buy those tickets. So tell me the eat story, the eating stories. So when I moved out of my house at the age of twenty, I moved into Fell's Point, which was sort of the Hit area, and eat at

a store on we called Edith's Shopping Bag. And I would go in and visit her all the time, you know, And she'd be sitting at a cash register with her like hand, her servant, lady Jeannie, who looked like a crazy old witch, but she waited on eady hand and foot. It was a strange thing, but kind of great. Only Baltimore, it's such. It was all John Waters film, the whole thing. Man, It's incredible. Anyway, I'd go in there and I talked to her be facing Oh Ganea, hell are you what

are you doing? And I gotta punk band I want to put together. Are you you know if you want to get in they I was like, yes, I want to get in this band. We're gonna get to New York, LA and San Francisco, of course. So we put together this band, myself and two other girls and with Evie. We rehearsed a couple of times, put a couple of songs together. I even remember they were. It was all

slapped together quickly. It was just the thought of getting to play at cebe GEB's Max's Kansas City, and then getting the first time I ever flew on a plane, okay, find across the country to play in Los Angeles and l a Hollywood whoo um, three nights, three shows, one night at the Neward Theater, and then up to San Francisco to play at the Newer at the Sorry the

Warfield Theater. This was like a dream come true, and I could thank Eadie for that, which ultimately goes down to thanking John Waters, you know, for for discovering Eadie, who was just the sweet, old, kindly lady that loved all the attention she was a doll, you know. Um, So we did the Eating of the eighth shows. That was fantastic. Uh. You know, I couldn't believe all that I was experiencing. And the punk scene was thriving great.

And came back to Baltimore and I was I knew that it was time to make a decision and I had to leave. I had to go. Uh after experiencing that, there was no turning back. Um Ok, I saved up money for like a year, and then I asked my friend Babs from high school, you want to go to l A. And she was like yeah. So we got my dad's pickup truck everything I own and and flew across I mean, and drove across country. And at that point I still had like an instematic camera that I

was taking photographs with. UM drove across country and in search of a band. I didn't know who it would be, where I knew it was going to be in l A. Um that was the easiest place. The cost of living was easier in l A than in San Francisco to New York. And yeah, so that was it. We we we started our journey across country and I was taking taking pictures all the time. Okay, you land. What's the journey from there to getting into Go Goes. Well, I was staying with a guy named Steve Martin, not the

Steve Martin UM. He's a filmmaker. And Steve and his brother, Doug Martin, they're identical redheaded twins. Um had done the show, produced the shows at the newer So I stayed with Steve and he was taking me around to all the clubs and I got into bands right away. I put my name up at all the stores, you know, the music stores and um so and Steve started taking me around to different different venues to see bands. And he said, there's this band, the Go Ghost Genia. You need to

see them. You need to get the band kicked the drum round, you need to be the drummer and then and then you're gonna be You're gonna be big stars. And I was like, okay, Steve. So he took me to Club eighty eight to see the Go Those play and it was fantastic. I they were having such a great time on stage. It was like such a joyful experience. It was like I, because I was so seri sarious about music, everything had to be perfect. I was way too serious and they injected this this whole fun thing

which I never thought about. Oh, this can be fun as well. They were having the best time on stage. They were making mistakes, it didn't matter um and people were loving it. Mistakes and all, you know. And and I also heard something in the songs that they were playing that I felt I had value. And I just was like, I told Steve verywait, yeah, I want to

get in this band. So his brother Doug was having a party that weekend and his place down in Santa Monica, and he invited the girls and whoever else was in the scene at that time, the punk scene, and they were there and I met I think I met Belinda, Margot and Jane and they were said they were looking for a drummer. Uh, and I said, well, I'm looking to join the band. And I invited them over to Steve's house that weekend. They were the following weekend, and uh,

Steve was so good to me. He allowed me when I dream across the country. I had all my vinyl, I had a p A system and that drop all my clothes, everything I owned. I had a p A set up in his living room in the house on Beverly Glenn and I brought amps with me as well, So the girls came in. We started playing, and a couple of songs later, I knew that this was going to be the right, the right fit for for all of us. And and it was and everything changed. It

all changed after that. Who was the who was the drummer before you? How did they get rid of that drummer? Um? They got rid of a Lisa. I don't know. I don't as I was told. I don't think she was like really into playing drums. I think it was just the fun thing she was doing. Not that they were that serious side of um. They just want to hang out with their friends and have fun. But I don't

know whatever the problems were. But I was more than happy to step in because when I stepped in, they thought I was like a big shop because I could actually play, you know what I mean. I was like really serious, and I was like, you know, guys, we need to rehearse, you know, every night after work. They were used to rehearsing a couple of times a month, and I had come for this background where you know, you rehearsed after work every day, like four or five

nights a week. You gotta you gotta play to get better. It's not gonna happen unless you spend the time and put in the work to make yourself better at your instrument or at your songwriting, whatever it maybe, or you're singing, whatever it is. You gotta put the time in. And they went right along with it. They were happy. They were happy to uh to change their ways about that.

They were they were willing to put the time in because I think everybody kind of knew that we were something different, something special, and if we if we put the time in, it was gonna it was gonna happen for us. Okay, this was at the tail end of a huge scene in Los Angeles. All the you know, the only ones who really broke through were the Knack, but a million bands were sign right Motels. They made it, they actually got a deal with they were But it

will happen even a little later though. But in any of that, you know, got all those bands. I have those records, like Danny Wilde had his band and God and then there was the other band on Arastuty. You know, you know all those things, such a scene. But you're playing gigs. What's going through your mind in terms of the next step forward. Obviously people knew who the Go

Goes were, but you weren't getting signed and it wasn't happening. Yeah, it was um, you know, I guess some of the labels wanted to take a take a chance on this old girl band because there had never been an all uh female band that had been hugely successful. And we all know how record labels are. They want to they find a formula that works and then they stick to it, you know, um, because they figured, you know, they're gonna make plenty of money. It's all about making that's the

bottom line. Are they going to make money. We came into the picture and we were sort of like it or not. We're here, We're not going anywhere. Look at the crowds that are coming to our shows. You can't deny that we're getting We're getting bigger and bigger. You know, the line is now around the block. It's got to

start like registering that this something's going on here. And you know, it did finally, but only with I R. S Records, who was sort of as indie label that was distributed through A and M, which was fantastic UM and John Cornaria is a guy that worked at I R. S. Who who came to see us play, and then he told Mill Scope and You've got to see this band. Of course, Miles came and we signed with Miles April

Fool's Day of nineteen, Okay, and that was it. Okay, let's go back a little bit slower because I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm reading the news back when you read a physical paper. There wasn't even article in the l A Times. Why have the Go Goes not gotten a record deal? Really? Okay? Yeah, well that makes sense because nobody would give us a deal and we were goddamn selling out every club we played in And we're going to San Francisco and we played

in New York. We're selling out all these places. What's the problem. So did you sign the deal with I R S before you went to England or did you go to England first? Yeah, we went to England. That really got the ball rolling because when we went to England, we toured with Madness and the Specials. So we got really tight during those tours because it was I mean, it was rough. Those those the audience did not want to see us. They hated our guts and let us

know by throwing bowels and spitting all over us all night. Um. So we came back and we you know, we had been we had we just finished the School of hard Knocks when we played the UK. Um so uh, when we came back here, it was crazy. We thought we were going to really happen in the UK, and as it turns out, we didn't. We kind of flopped over there. But when we when we came back to the States, we got the beat. The single on Stiff was happening

in the club scene. People were playing it and it was really starting to, you know, become a club favorite. People were knowing who the go goes were. And we get back to l A and that's what it really It really did change because then then it was like, instead of playing one night at the star Wood, you have to do two or three nights. Uh. It changed a lot. And we were really tight by that time because we've been playing every night. Um. And that was

a pretty cool time. We played playing the Rosy and the Whiskey and the star Wood and then going up to Sandwich is gonna play with buo Hey And then then the venue stop bigger and bigger. It was. It was, it was. It was all welcomed. Okay, the Stiff single, we got to beat the original version that was done before the I R S deal, right, Yes, yeah we did that. Regarding Dave Rock, I think it was a game.

Robinson Sift Records, Yeah, um uh yeah, he saw the band play and he had talked with Ginger several times about doing a deal he wanted. Our publishing with Ginger was like no way. Um, but we did do that

that single deal with him. And you know, as much as we were like, oh, that's such crap, we don't really care about that, it worked to our advantage when we came back to the States because, like I say, it was happening in the clubs, they were playing it, so people all over the country were here in the go those for the first time. Um. Being an English import, fine, whatever takes um. So when we came back here, I think that the crowds that were showing up at our

conscious were so big that people couldn't ignore it. And you know what what's funny is that I'm thinking about this, all the major labels offered up several major labels offered us uh EP deals nobody will offer us an LP deal except the I R. S Records, So we signed with them. Okay, you signed, You went to the u K. You came back. What was the process in the time period of getting it together and recording the album? Okay,

so we get back to l A. We signed our deal. UH, milescope and had an idea of bringing in Richard Gotterer, a very famous songwriter, a great producer. He he had produced a couple of Blondie records. I thought it were a perfect fit and it was. Um. So we packed up and we went to New York for several months to work on our first album, Beauty and the Beat, and Richard was was guiding us and helped us to UH realized that what we needed to do was slow

everything down a little bit. You could actually hear the melody, the vocal melody, which was sort of flying by so finished you couldn't appreciate it. We slowed it all dawn. We're still a punk band at heart, but we'd be came what was happening. He had these great pop mullies over top these punk punk chords, and you know, we're playing really fast. Um. He helped us change that up and make it more accessible to the general public. And it was at first when we heard our record we

hated it. We thought, oh god, this isn't what we really sound like. What has he done to us? And then seven or eight months later, when the records number one, we were like, Richard is genius. What a trade guy. He knew exactly what to do, and we didn't, you know, whatever, Richard is genius. He's a great song man, and he did know what to do with those songs, and he gave it a very classic sound. Okay, it wasn't exactly what we wanted, but it's classic. Cool. Okay. When when

you showed up in New York, were the songs already written? Yeah, they were. They were already written when we got there. We had, you know, several songs, and he chose what he thought would be best on the record, and we worked on him. We worked on the arrangements, which were pretty close. But he really he was Richard, such a song. It's all about the song. You gotta start with that or you got nothing. You gotta have a great song. So did he hear the stuff before you came to

New York? Did you work with you? No? He had been sent tapes. Okay, so now you're in New York for months, Needles just say, I hear kachin, kachin, kachin the bill, which is ultimately being paid by you. But you were also portray a wild time in addition to recording, You're hanging out with people, Jodie Foster, going all around. What was what was going on? Then? We were we were kids having a great time in our early twenties. We got a little money. Finally we're on our way

to perhaps being rock stars. And it couldn't get much better, you know, we were. I mean that was sort of when the rat Pack was happening, all with Rob Lowe and Andrew Carthy, that whole bunch that was all happening at the same time. We were all part of it. I am so lucky to have been involved in all that. It was great, Bob, it was great. You know. It felt like, oh my god, we have arrived. Here are peers. Look at everyone. I mean, we're all like, we're all

on our way up. We're all working. Everybody stuff their ship together. We are partying, but we're young, and so that makes a difference. And it was the eighties where you're sort of I don't know that mentality was so different than um. Okay, so let's just assume it's the eighties for eaving today and I dry and I say, there's gonna be this great party. You have to go alone? Is that cool with you? Now? I have to have my my group with me. I've had my girl gang

with me. I notice, anyway, what none of us went anywhere alone. We always had somebody, a couple of girls from the from the band. We're always hanging out together. You know, safety and numbers, bob. Okay, So you go, and it helps to have your wing people. But are you the person starting the conversation making friends or are you the one talking after they've already brought these other

people into the circle. I've probably talked after they've brought into a certain because I am believe you're not kind of shy, so I wait for introductions and let other people do that, and then I'd sort of weasel my way in there. Okay. So when we first got on camera here, you were a ball of energy, really upfront, really energetic. Then we touched upon your parents, you got sad. So in terms of your personality, do you get depressed? Are you always upbeat? How do you cope? What do

you like? Bob? I'm human, that's all. Of course I get depressed. UM, but I try to stay as positive as possible because you only go around once, and I want I want to look back on my life as as a as as a gift and and and try to keep it a joyful experience because you know what, there's so much crap going on that can bring you down on a daily basis. And I tried to, Um, I absorbed only so much and then I have to

shut it out because everything it affects me deeply. And I you know, I just want to be happy and healthy, and I want the people that I love to be happy and healthy. And you know, I want to be in the Rock and Wall Hall of Fame. It's happening in a couple of weeks. Duh. I'm I'm pretty. I'm okay, Bob, I'm okay, Okay. So the record comes out. When's the first time you hear a song on the radio? And

what's that like? I'm in my car and I heard I think it was our Lips are Steeled, and um, that's what I felt like, Oh my god, we really are going to make it like this is it. We're on the radio. My parents can hear this, my friends can hear this. I started getting calls from back in Baltimore. Oh my god, I heard you on the radio. You know, Wow, it's great. How incredible is that. I'm a kid from Dune, doc. You know, I go to l A with everything I have in the back of my dad's pickup truck, and

here it is. A couple of years later, I got a strong on the radio. Pretty magical. Okay, you have your story, but let's just assume the Go Goes didn't exist. Would you have made it anyway? I don't know. I had no idea. I know that I was very driven and I was looking for the right people to work with, But I have no idea. I really don't. I would have kept playing and played until I found the right fit. I know that. Okay, So over time the record builds

ahead of steam and it's mega successful. You were on SNL. You know, you have the famous video where you're jumping in the fountain. Were you moving so fast you couldn't think about it? What was the experience? That's exactly, Bob, That's exactly what it was. Things were happening at such a rapid pace that I don't think any of us had time to really take it all in. Um. You know, we were just like just doing whatever we were told

to do. Uh. And it was all supposed to be part of what it takes to make your record sell and you know, to be a part of whatever of whatever that rock stardom stuff is. We were just trying to do what we were supposed to do. Um. And we didn't that really, we didn't. We never took time to really sit down and talk and think about it. And you know, that's the way the record labels pushed you back then. You would get off tour and have a couple of weeks off and go right back on

on tour, go right back out on tour. When you finished that tour, you come back and work on a record, and then you go right back out on tour. That's that's the way it worked, and that's what we were used to you know. Um. You know, in retrospect, it's like, oh my god, you need to take time off to find yourself and to learn how to really communicate with each other. Um. There wasn't a lot of time for that. Okay, so who said when to make this second record, the

record company or the band? And was the band company their record company the record company? Did you have the songs? And when were they written? We had some of the songs, um, but I think that most of that stuff was written while we were on tour. We didn't have time to go home and work on stuff. Um. You know that, you know the old saying the first record is a lifetime takes a life time, and make second when you gotta quick get it out. And of course we're all

worried about the sophomore jinks. You know, it could never be as good as the first winner. I mean, it was incredible that our first album sold the way that it did, so we knew the second one was going to be tough. You know, we were going to get there going to say, oh, the first record you sold this, maney, what's the problem with the second one? We did the best we could, that's all. Okay. The second album comes out, Cathy's got this song vacation. You worked that up after

it comes a hit. What's the perception being in the band of the second record. I think that we all felt rushed with that. We did feel rushed on the second record, absolutely, and thank god Kathy had written Vacation and we brought it into the band, changed it up a little bit, worked up the arrangement and it became a go go song, and that, you know, was the was the single, and thank god Cathy. And what about the other songs? Were they written in the studio? No,

they were written on tour. Did you ever written in the studio, Bob? We have to have come in with it prepared. Did you consciously say we'd better be writing because we're gonna have to make a record, or it happens spontaneously. I think it happens spontaneously. I think we were all too busy and wound up, you know, at that particular time, with everything that's going on around us. And that's what I say. What what I'm saying here is that there wasn't a lot of thought put into anything.

It was just do it, do it, do it, get it done, put the record out. You know. We we should have been allowed a little bit more time to do everything, but we didn't know any better. Okay, then you make the third record with Martin Russian, who of course had used success with the Human Leagues. No, longer with us. How did that come together? Um, well, we did have some time off then and Martin I adored. I thought that Human League record Dare was a masterpiece.

And when his name was brought up, I think it was Kathy and myself that really pushed for him. Um. I mean that album like I say that, albam there is a masterpiece. And Martin was you know, produced it. So I was like, please, just let's do it the record of everybody agreed to do it. Whatever to England,

um to work on that record. But unfortunately, this was the hype of the drug intake and also everybody had plenty of money and uh, and the band was splintering at that point, where you know, there was a lot of there was problems, and no, we weren't communicating, we weren't realistic about our situation. Once again, we're just doing what we're told to do, um and not stopping to think about the consequences of not having enough time to really work on things on ourselves, you know, on our songs.

We just had to get it together. I love that record. Nonetheless, I love Talk Show. I love the way it sunds. Martin was a great producer, a wonderful guy. Um, and I love that record. I'm happy with that record. How did you decide not to use Richard one more time? Oh? That was done. It was time to move on. It was time, it was we needed to change. It couldn't be the same thing again. Come on. Okay, So the third record comes out, there's no obvious single. Ultimately head

over Heels. Head over Heels was a single, okay, but I'm trying to say it didn't have the level of success of the previous tracks. And then ultimately Jane says she's gonna leave. Did you feel that coming? Was that a total surprise? What was happening there? Well, Jane wanted to be wanted to sing one of the songs Forget that day, and uh, we sat down and agreed that it wouldn't be good. Belinda would feel her role would be diminished as a lead singer, and so you know, Um,

that's the way that went down. And obviously Jane I couldn't deal with it and told us that she was going to quit. Of course, I felt that, you know, if Jane wanted to do her own material and be, you know, be the lead singer, she should. She could go out and get a solo deal and still be in the band. But like I said, things were going so fast, and there was a lot of drugs and there was just everybody had their own camp and people that were pushing them to do this and that, and

our management was not guiding us. They weren't really taking care of things the right way. Um. You know, they got to focusing on Belinda and her and she could be a star. It was just coming apart, so that the Jay thing was it was not a surprise, but I couldn't when it actually happened. It seemed like, oh my god, I can't believe she's really doing this. And then ultimately there's one more splinter with Charlotte and Belinda going off. Yeah, well that that was the final. Yeah,

that was it. Uh, that was weird because, um, Kathy and I were just trying to keep things together and Charlotte and we didn't put Charlotte in rehab and she was I thought would come out better and we'd be more united and we worked together. As it turns out, she came out and I don't know what her Blenna we're talking about, but we were all called into a meeting at our management office and walked in and were told Charlotte when they said, you know, the band is

over and that's that. And Kathy and I were mortified and couldn't believe it was happening. Um, and we just had to deal with it. That's the way it went. Dan. It wasn't it wasn't right. It wasn't done the right way. You know, what disbandinged to do is take a year or two off and come back and communicate and you know, do what we need to do with each other to make it all right. Now. Charlotte, I only spent one night sit next to her at some gig and talking

to her. But based on that experience, I know this is a stupid statement. She would be the last person I would expect to get hooked on heroin. How does someone like Charlotte get hooked on heroin? I don't know. You have to ask her. You know, it's a personal thing. I don't know, man. You just uh, maybe the people that are around you are doing it and you sort of play with it and then it becomes a habit before you know it. I had an issue with it the nineties, um, and that was out of boredom, and

my thing was like Oh, we're just smoking it. It's not a big deal. Well, yeah, it is a big deal. You know. Heroin is the fucking devil. It's bad news, bad news. So how long were you doing heron and how did you get off? Oh? I was in rehab like three times and before I got it together. Most people, that's one thing I have to say about charge. She was in rehab once, since she stayed sober. Most people

would take several times. It took me three times before I got myself together, and that's been over twenty years. I'd never do that, never do it again. It's a you just become a different person. I look at that and I think, like, that's not That's not who I am. You know, I'm not that person. It's dark. It's really dark. Okay. You know it's especially prevalent heroin now as a result of the OxyContin situation, and need to say, heroin is much less that's one of the reason people take it.

It's much less expensive than OxyContin, which also is harder to get. But what was it like? You know, if people like David Crosby, who lose everything, you're taking heroin. You know, traditionally people say they spend all day thinking about where they're going to get their next fix. What was your experience, No, I just get what I need, that's all, and just stay at home and do it. That's it. When I would do that drug, I was I had a lot of it would give me a

lot of energy, So I was constantly doing something. So if I had asked you at that time, if it was open, you're doing heroin, and I said you shouldn't be doing it, you would have said, mind your business, mind your own business. It's that nothing to do with you. And I'll tell you something. When you're doing that drug, people would say whatever they want, and people around you can die, can overdose from it. It It doesn't matter. You

stop doing drugs when you are ready to. And I don't know exactly that when that happens or how that happens, but everybody has that moment if they're lucky, I had that moment and I stopped, and at the end of it, for me, I would never I would never deal with that drug again because, uh, trying to get off of it is such a horrible experience. I couldn't live through it. So I'll never that. That will never be in my life again. Okay, so if you went three times, you

obviously relapse twice. What was going on there? It's easy to relapse, you know. It's just it's familiar territory. It numbs you up. It just makes you numb, so that everything around you good, If there's any kind of anything that's good or bad, it just evens it all out and you're numb to everything that's around you. So, uh, it's easy to live day by day that way. You don't you don't hurt, You don't hurt. However, what about the potential concept of odine? You just put that out

of your mind. Or you're trying to be if you're if you're if you're iron, and if you're using a needle, Well, yeah, I guess so. I don't know. I would have never touched that. My stupidity on my behalf was that I was smoking it, thinking oh, it's not such a big deal. It's like smoking pot. But of course that's ridiculous. Okay, the band breaks up. What goes through your head? You ultimately get a deal with House of Shock. What's what's

going on there? Well, you know, when the band broke up, I was it was so bitter about the way that went down, and I couldn't. I don't gonna wallow in that, so I bitterness. So I just thought, Okay, I'm gonna get myself together, and I worked with Kathy for a while. We tried to put a band together, and that didn't didn't gel in the way I hoped it would. And then I thought, okay, I'm just gonna start from scratch,

and uh, look for the right people. I found Vance Degenerous, and Vance and I started writing, and then we found other players to work in the band House of Shock. I got Miles Copeland to manage us. We would rehearse up in his ass, and we did a show at the Roxy, and record labels were invited and we did one show and got a record deal with Capitol Records, and uh, yeah, that's pretty cool. Do one show get a deal? Very very cool? And then how did it

play out after that? Well, then we got Richard got I brought I said, I want Richard back to help make sure the songs are all together. And Richard came in and we did the record and then I brought in Chas Stamford, who had written I Ain't missing you, missing you whatever. I knew he was a good songwriter and a good producer, or brought him into sort of work on the single, fixed the track a little bit more um um, and we put the record out and

did what it did not a hell a lot. Didn't have a lot of I didn't didn't have a lot of money behind it pushing it. But I did get a call. This sort of makes me happy. I got a call from Billy Steinberg, who was a great songwriter, and he said to me, Gina, I just had to call you to let you know. I was driving to Palm Springs from l A, which is where he lived at the time, and he said, the song came on the radio and it was so good I had to

pull my car over and listen. And at the end of it, they said, oh, this is house of Shocked, Gina Shocked, and the go goes. He said, I gotta tell you that single is fantastic, Gina. You've done a great job and it was a song middle of nowhere, and that meant so much to me and it still does to this day. You know, you know whether you're whether your record makes it or not, as it's all timing and there's a lot involved in whether something happens money,

it's sort of out of your hands. Once you make that record, you do the best you can to set it all up and h so the record is not as successful as you have as it happens, I'm disappointed, were you? And what happened with the act and what was your next step? Well, I was, yeah, I was disappointed. And then to make matters worse, Uh, the whole regime

at Capital Records changed. Our guy who was the head of Capital of the time he got asked, and even my head of the A and R. Tom Wally who signed me, who actually went on to help make UM Much Records. I can't think of it um anyway, interscope, thank you um And it was a tough time, but I thought I've done the best I can and you know, if this is what it's all about, I'm done with this crap. So I just thought, nowhere bands, I'm done

with this. Then I went to New York and thought I was just going to be a songwriter, and so I got a record deal on I mean a publishing deal with m c A in New York. John Alexander signed me and then I just wrote for several years and you know, worked on my songwriting skills and and in the meantime, the go goes. We started playing and again started getting together. Sorry, okay, a couple of things. Ginger was the original manager, then you became part of

the h K Empire. Why did you get rid of Ginger? And retrospect? Hole important? Was Ginger to your success? And to what degree did her absence contribute to the breakup? Yeah, Ginger was the glue when when we when Ginger left, we didn't fire her. We didn't want her to go. We thought that, you know, Jimer just started out with us, and we thought like, wow, we've reached this point where we might need a bigger management company to sort of

oversee things. Can we have Ginger work with a bigger company? And you know, I guess a lot of things went down that we weren't pretty to back then, And I only found out since then when I talked to Ginger um and all of a sudden, Ginger was gone. She left l A and was in New York. I don't know what happened. It was, you know, we were sort of like, oh my god, we didn't want her to go.

We wanted her to work with with the newer management company, a big company, you know, because we knew that her input would be sorely missed and it was and as it you know, turned out, the band broke up. I feel like if Ginger was there, she would have guided us the right way where things like that wouldn't have happened. I don't know, Bob, you know, Okay, Ginger is out. Is she bitter? Um? I think she. I don't think

she was bitter about the band. You have to ask her, but I don't think she thought that we were sort of behind the way she was being treated. Nevertheless, she's being treated really shabbily, and I I just felt really terrible. We all feel terrible about it because we didn't, like I said, there were things happening that we didn't know about. Um. When when Asoft's company came in, UM and we loved Irving, he was great, you know, Irving, Irving such a trip. Yeah.

I don't know. I you know, I couldn't say one thing that. You know, we're all friends and we love Ginger and she's sort of back in the phone and has been for a while, and it's really nice nice to tap her back. Okay, let's stay with the songwriting. Ultimately you have some success even today, like with Miley Cyrus. So tell us about your songwriting career. Well, you know, I wasn't a writer initially, and then I saw how much the songers. Man, I was like, wait a minute,

you know what, I'm working just as hard. Please give me a break. I don't know what we got. The beat would beat without that drum beat, you know what I mean. I just had all these It was I couldn't figure it out, and I was really angry. And that was that was a big part of why. That being kind of I'm sure it was why of being kind of broke up um a part of it. Um. So I just continued sorry and trying to get better

at my craft. And you know, in the like the two thousand eight or nine or whatever, I was writing with a couple of guys um and we wrote. We wrote a bunch of songs, and Miley Cyrus heard one breakout. She had had a record done, but she heard that song and love it. She went back in and recorded that became the title track of her record. That was where she was going for being like a kid into

a young adult. And then Disney called us and John Allixander was like, Hey, I got this other young U. Her name is Selena Gomez, can you write something for So we were brought in to write for Selena and we wrote, uh, the first thing, all the title track and you know, four songs for her that record. Um and uh. So I felt like, well, guys, I actually can write, and let me just show you what I've done. So I felt vindicated at the end of the day because you know, um, if you're in a band and

the way some things are sort of setting stones. Certain people want to write with certain people and I get that, and when you bring another elements that might mess with

that formula or whatever. But it was tough to get into their into the songwriting group with Charlotte and Jane h it was difficult, and so I just would write what I would write, and whatever was accepted by the band was But when I wrote stuff out on my own and other artists chose to record it, that made me feel really good and made me feel like, you know what, I am a goddamn songwriter and somebody's appreciating.

And I didn't feel that much from the band, but just the way it goes, you know, I don't think it was a conscious effort on their behalfor just sort of the way things were working. I don't know. Okay, are you still writing songs today? I have not been. I haven't been for like I say, the last six years have been all devoted to my mom and dad and uh, but I'm gonna start getting back into that.

I've been just super busy with you know, the last year and a half writing this book and uh, putting the book together, getting the photos together, all that, um, and then of course there's always something going on and go go land and which I'm super happy about. I feel very good about the band and the way that we communicate with each other. I just can't believe it, all these years later, we're still it's still a five of us, and we still like care about each other,

and it's a it's a little family here. Man. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. Okay, let's go back to thirty years ago. You do an House of Shock. You're going through your thing. Meanwhile, Belinda has a couple of very are you significant hits with videos? How do you feel about that? Oh? I was piste off, but then when I got my House a Shock deal, I was fine because I was like, okay, I can do this too. And I was just the drummer in the band. It didn't get much songwriting in in in the go

goes um. But you know what, when pushed came to a shove, I went out. I got a record deal, and you know I can do that. I you know where it ends up is I only have so much control. But I still felt pretty good about what my contribution was and what you know, what I tried to do or what I did. So how did the band come back together? Jane Fonda got this band back together. Jane

Fonda is the reason the band got back together. She contacted contacted all of us Belinda initially about getting together and wanting us to do a show at Universal for a great initiative that she wanted to get on the back it. And of course we said yes because we're all environmentalists, and we also said yes because it's Jane Fonda, you know, a hero of all of ours. And so we met many times at her house in Santa Monica,

and uh, everybody just started talking. We started going out to dinner, and you know it was a comfortable fit. You know, we're fatily What could I say? And before you know it, we're touring. We started touring a nine nine haven't stopped. Okay, in the interim before Jane fond it tracks you down, how much contact do you have with the other four? And now since you've been back together when you're not actually working, how much contact do

you have with the other four? Um? We we know what we all Okay, we Lena's just has moved from Bangkok now she's in Mexico City, Kathy's in Austin, Charlton, l A. James in Hawaii, and I'm in San Francisco. So it's not like we get to see each other. We're not even the same place. But we do talk quite a bit, believe it or not. Um And because we have so much going on right now, so it's it's a necessity that we all speak and get on the same page about decisions that need to be made.

So it's it's like I said, it's pretty good now, Bob. I feel pretty comfortable with everybody and happy the way things are moving forward with the band. Where you know, we're we're talking about doing some things next year. I'm pretty excited about things. The other thing I have to ask because I remember the final tour. Told I told, I said, don't put final tour. The gogoes are never over. Don't say final. That's ridiculous. Well, anyway, that happened, and

that was a stupid move. I feel. I'm just gonna say it was really dumb, because you know what, we'll just tour until we fall am and that's the truth. We walk away from each other for six months or a year, and then we come back together. We're like, Okay, let's do some shows. Oh I miss you, Let's go on a vacation together, Let's do this, let's do that.

Going was the decision? What? Why was the decision? Saying it was a final tour because people thought they were really out or you wanted to sell tickets was gone. It wasn't a ticket thing. It was just a bullshit thing. I don't remember who. It wasn't whatever that you know, they don't want to work anymore. It doesn't matter. It always resolved. And that was bullshit, and it's embarrassing. As far as I'm concerned, that final show, final tour crap

that everybody does. I was not a part of that. Sorry, I wasn't. Okay, Rock and Roll Hall of fame. Where you at on that excited happy It's about time. I didn't care initially, but now it's like when it actually happens, it's pretty cool. I sing icing on the cake. Okay, So looking back, you were progenitors all girl group. There haven't been a whole hell of a lot since there was the Bengals. A to you. Now we're in more

of a solo era. What can you tell us about being a woman in the music business as a performer? To what dick we are you held back to? What? What have you learned? I don't figure how back so much anymore. In the early eighties, late seventies, you worried because you had something to prove um although there aren't there still is not an all female band that has done what we've done, and I'm waiting desperately for that. We talked about this all the time. Why where's the

next goes? What the hell is going on? Well? There may be some neat bands coming around the band that are going to happen. I hope you know, um um like, I love the Linda Lendas. Have you heard them? Bob? Yeah? They're very good, aren't they great? I just I've spent the weekend with them last last week last week in l A and I actually did. I played they play a go Goost they played tonight and so I played drums that song with them and they they filled me

with joy. They are so wild and they're having such a great time, and they remind me of us, except younger. You know, they're so excited about everything. Oh man, I hope they make it. What do you think, because there's a huge buzz. Why do you think there's not a buzzle? It hasn't happened already. I don't know. I don't know, and you tell me. I have no idea, But it's about time. I'm glad those girls are doing what they're doing and they're serious about it. And their parents like

they're sending them to you know, they're they're all. They take guitar lessons, they take piano lessons, drum lessons, like their parents grew up watching us do what we do and then started taking them as little kids. So they know their history and they are excited about doing what they do. They love it. Like the drummer is, she's like eleven years old or twelve. It's crazy and all this girl is sixteen. I love it. It's a beautiful thing. It's about time. Okay. You know, we live in the

me too era? To what degree do you have your own bad stories? So what degree do I have my own bad stories? Me two moments where guys were doing things that were inappropriate, I've never had that problem. I think most guys are afraid of make and afraid of this bam, and we're all together. The guys were always afraid of us. When we bring them back into the dressing room, they're like cowering in the corner. I mean, when the five of us are together. I guess it

must be scary for guys. I don't know, but that's the way it's always worked out. I don't need problem with guys at all and getting you know, getting pushed around. We stand our own ground. That's why we were successful. That's why we've done what we've done. Okay, and the hopefully thirty years you have left. Other than playing with the go goes, you want to play until they bury you? What else do you want to accomplish? Oh, God, Bob,

I don't know. You know, Um, I'm really happy to be in this span and very grateful, and I hope we play a lot longer, and I think we have we have some things up our sleeve that perhaps will be around next year. We're working on stuff all the time behind the scenes. Um. All I hope for is that I stay healthy and happy and I am allowed to do what I love to do, which is music, which will be writing, maybe some producing or you know, and playing with the band. Um. I think I've I've

my life as far as been pretty fantastic. So I don't know what else is in store for me. All I know is that I'm gonna keep my ship together and um, you know, be open to whatever may come my way and be grateful about it. Well, Gina, you're really a force of nature. I gotta tell you. I've had a rough couple of days, been very busy, and I was pretty fried. But as soon as you hit the screen, blit right up right into the groove. I mean, you could feel the energy, and I'm sure that is

part of why you're so successful. I don't know, Bob, everybody, everybody, everybody tries the best way to know how. I'm tired to hear myself sound like such a good T shirt. I'm kind of an asso sometimes, But you know what, Um, after being around for a while, I just, you know, when I see somebody you know, becoming famous or you know, I'm also happy for them because it's a tough business. It really is, you know, And I would not want to be trying to get a deal this in this

day and age. It is just so crazy. Um And so I you know, I watched younger artists or bands and I am I am their fan. I'm there in the background going yeah, yeah, do it. Well, I you know, I echo all that stuff. But being in Los Angeles for forty five years and hearing everybody's bullshit and knowing how hard it is to make it. Talent is at most the other at work and drive. So anybody who made it I have respect for because they really, they

really had to go through the mill. It doesn't happen when people say, oh I was just in the right place at the right time. I was lucky. That's just horse ship. If you got there, you had to be one minded. Yea, yeah, you had to be a little lucky. But you have to make your own luck because this is a town where everybody comes to make it and almost nobody does. Think of all the bands you played with,

the Club eight eight, etcetera. Who knows where those people are day They never even got signed, never mind, didn't ever hit record. You're you're absolutely right. Yeah, it's uh, it's scary. I mean, I can't imagine being one of those first one of those people that that you know, tried and tried and never really happened. Oh God, I don't know what I do. I feel so lucky. And you're right about all that. It does. You know, you don't just you don't just you're not just in the

right place at the right time there. You have to work to put yourself there, and you have to know how to negotiate the situation. Yeah, because you know, what's the other thing. You know, we're musicians, we're not lawyers, we're not managers. That's not what we chose to do. But yet you have to have a little bit of that with what you're doing where you're gonna get screwed.

You've gotta you gotta learn the game. You gotta learn how to play, and that takes that takes a while before you really know the rules and you know how to how to look out for yourself. Well, you talk about you know, Charlie Watts and Bill. Why I'm in now, Daryl Jones, You're anchoring the band. And I think the most the most significant thing you were talking about is when you joined the band, you were the pile driver

said we gotta rehearse, we gotta do this. I mean, I can't lift the whole band, but I can light a fire under you. Well, I just that was my way. It was the only way I knew how to do things. You know. Um, I didn't have the magic formula. All I knew was that if we I felt like, if this band rehearsed more something great, what's going to happen.

I really believe that. And I think the girls, you know, adhered to that whole concept because they were they were doing it, and they were excited about it, and they felt that they believed in that idea and and and you could see the band transforming, you know, from week to week, month to month. Everybody was getting better at what they do. And so that is something that really, you know, propels you forward. It's like, Okay, well I

see a difference now from a month ago. Make sure want to continue what you're doing and know that you're doing the right stuff to make things better, to get your songs out there, to be a better musician, to be a better writer. All that goes into it. A better performer, better at handling record labels, you know all that stuff. It's a big picture. Well put and on that note, I think we're gonna leave it. Gina, thanks so much for doing this. Bob. It's a pleasure. You're

a sweetheart. I really enjoyed talking with you. Good luck editing it, and um we are editors. We've really much let her rip because we wanted to be honest. You condensed it too much, you lose the essence. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, I think it'll turn out pretty good. Oh, I know it's good keeping You're like, you got some energy up. That's good. Well, you know that's good. You know I'm guiding and I'm judging whether it's good. That's

what I'm thinking about. Seven. As I say you earlier, as soon as you hit the mic, I said, this is gonna be no problem. Alright. Good. I'm glad you felt that way. Dave Um and I appreciate your gians through this. Okay, until next time, it's Bob left Sis