George Drakoulias

to America, coming to America, Smart reserve. Now, put a hundred dollars down, build your dream smart car. So I put I put my credit card down a hundred dollars. I built a silver with a black trim, and I got the upgrade, which is I think at that time some kind of dials a hundred dollars or whatever. And two years later I got a call Mr Kulius, your smart cars here, like, excuse me. I'm like, what if I don't like it? Like, it's all right, We'll give

your money back, you know. But they so they're Mercedes. So I got it and I loved it. I absolutely love it. It's great. It's like if you're driving around and you're going out and like, hey give me a ride home. You give me my drunk friend. Hey, man, do you want to get in the in the hatchback? And it's big. I mean, I'm a huge guy, you know, stupid guy in a smart car. But and then um, what else? So like if I go to set, like I say, I go to the set, it's like, you know,

crew parking is always like a mile away. It was like, I'll just park under like I can park under the under the Winner bagel and like you know, like the base camp is like I'll go in and just driving and everybody loves it. The valets love it. It's funny like this is the best car man, you know. And they know there's a Ferrari in front of me, they don't care. They get all excited about the smart car. And as they got older, older, whatever they as, they

kept in proving them. They got them one with Gland. Now I have leather um in side. It's really decked out and it's roomy. I've driven to I've driven to San Francisco. I mean, I wouldn't want to work much farther than that. I wouldn't want to go across country in it, okay, But when you're on the freeway, what's it like? I love it. My wife hates it. She's like, I'm like, it's just a it's a titanium roll cage.

And I've showed the videos on line of of a smart guy going a hundred miles into a concrete you know those divide and they bounce off and they come around and one door is like fine, the other door is kind of broken, and the people are still upright, and said, look, we'll have an open cask at funeral. We did, because if you're going a hundred miles and now and you stop, that's going to all your organs. But I said, but we'll have you know, we'll look good.

So I love it. That's fine, Okay. So it's kind of like the black box on an airplane. I love it. I absolutely love it. So there's no time obviously she has a car, there's no time when you say, hey, we won't go in the smart I'll take together car forgetting. If she's not she wants to help with me, or she's welcome to drive herself. We'll go to Santa Barbara. We have friend has got to play up there. Well that's about as partial driving it. But it's she's getting

used to it. It's safe, okay. And then how noisy is it when you get to like sixty seven? Right, it's a little bouncy, like you don't want to do eight seventy five. It's fine on the freeway eighty five, it start getting it starts getting a little weird if you pass a big truck. But um, it's like I think it's a turbo. It has an overdrive and you trick them out even more. Mine is pretty stealth black on black now, but I love it. And how about

so you're talking about parking on set? But generally is it a great advantage you have a car that's awesome. I mean, you know if any street ego too, it's always like, oh there's I can't fit there. It's like, oh, I can fit there. I think it's only eight feet long. And so but now they're not going to import him anymore. Oh no, all right, I read about electric, you know the all electric one yet, but now they're not gonna import electric either. No, you better make this one last.

I'm leasing it like an idiot. Okay, So I know now you're working on movies. There anything else you do now that I'm missing? Um, well, I'm running for city counting. Um, I working on some movies. I still make a record. It's made a record with this band called Stereophonics. Are sure so you are still producing? Yeah? I mean someone's stupid enough to hire me. You curse on this thing. Say whatever you want to. You know the four stages of your career? Oh, yes, I do. But tell my order.

You know, it's who's Georgia Culius? Gotta get Georgia Culius, Jesus Christ always he's always booked. It's like a new young hot George Culius. Who the fund is George? So I'm at that stage again. I've get to reinvent myself and hopefully some young band. If you're listening and you're very hip hiring me? No, but it's fun. I mean, but I get to make a lot of music for the movies I'm working on. That's always fun. Um. I get to like if I recorded like Vince Vaughan ever recorded,

Owen Wilson, Kristen uh Christ and wigg you know. So that's that's always fun. Like when you get to use your skill set and like work with that. Well, I'm a little I thought you were, like when you're talking about those people, if you're amusing supervisor say, I'm more than a music So that's why I'm asking. So you're recording them like singing tell us what tell us? The

four things you are? So I'm very handsome. Um so with the movie like something, but it's not trying to think of anything like so this TV show worked on Escape ad anim or did you watch that with Ben Stiller? I know, I just followed so close. It's greatly if I gonna pick up on stuff that it's really a lot of humanity, you'll love it. And they're wonderful and the two mates are plotting with the person who's working

there the world. They both start, you know, getting on with it and who British ocad who's wonderful and so probably win an Emmy. I guess Emmy bait um. So for example, there's a flashback sine that takes place like an early night like mid nineties at the outside of strip club and we want to use Wu Tang clan ain't nothing to funk with and um, you didn't know this, Bob, but they didn't really clear all the samples back in

the day. So it's like this gray it's this gray area where they won't license it, but it's like an open secret, you know. It's like this kind of thing where well, we can't publishing cleared, but the master we don't know. So I know Rizzle and they get to call Rizzle like, let's let's remake this thing and so we can use it. So like that kind of stuff is always fun and that's exciting to do. Um. The same thing happened on this movie Do Date, trying to

use check yourself before you wreck yourself. And again there's another thing that was gray area ambiguous. So you getting to remake stuff like that is always fun. Or in Walter Middy, Christin Wig had a sing so I got to record her and then it turns to I don't feel so that it turns this big she's singing, um uh what's a ground control the major tom and it turns this big thing and so she's singing. She's a great singer. Also she was she's also a great ukuleleleas um.

So that's always fun. Like if I'm working on the movie, I get to create stuff. That's always fun. And then on a movie. It's nice because I do know I'm not the I'm not your average pickings. I'm not your average bad about park right whatever, Yogi Bear, so I'll be able to use me. But but you, uh, Yogi Bear, didn't wait till noon? How about yourself? Now I find myself getting up and just like sweating because it will

get into that in a minute. But um so, like part of the thing is a directors like I don't know, man, like I kind of trying to talk to a composer. So I'm able to talk composer in musical terms and kind of it's like, you know, like I don't know, it's just not I'm like, okay, you want to just change the bat here? But I try. Oh yeah, I love it now excuse me. So that's always fun. So that's when it's fun, you know, when I get to used. In a perfect world, if you could be doing anything now,

what would you want to be doing? Nothing? Would you? Let's be clear, nothing is not usually that happy right now. I would know. I would think, I think I'd like to make more I would like to make more records, and I'd like to I'd like to make it more meaningful, but I don't know what it means anymore, you know, I mean it's kind of strange. Okay, wait, wait, mean what would be more meaningful? The process? Just the thing in the world I could have a Okay, well we

talked about it the gig. I remember we were Staples Center and you say you used to have fights over records. Well, yeah, that we were coming up. We'd like, you know, coming up. It's like especially with rappers starting in you know, early eighties in New York over rappers like the disc record which was born, you know, and that kind of thing. So you'd like no NPMD or you know, you know, it's you know, we hated the West Coast for sure.

That was like those I'm saying. Yeah, you would get into a fight like or it would be beatle Stones or whatever that. I think it was the same. It just carried on into hip hop or other stuff. So you just have arguments, but they're friendly, no no guns usually, right. Um. I was robbed a few times, like, uh, okay, let's stop there. When were you robbed? Well, you get away about at the roller rink at the Roxy. There's a there's a great hip hop club called the Roxy, which

was a roller rink and a hip hop club. And where is this Manhattan streets gone? I was living on the West Coast, Okay eighteen Street in the West Side, and um, I remember being online. There's two stories. One was being online. This this is the mentality like hip hop that being online. It's like you crushed, you know, crushed it in trying to get in there. For those who are not in the East Coast, online means in

line right, not on queuing up. I don't know you're all to get into the club today is you know, the internet? So you squished in and all of a sudden, I feel something like somebody's hand in my pocket, like I got like bubble gum in four bucks. I'm not like you know, so for some reason I had a pen like stads like you're like, hey, man, where you standing. I'm like, your fucking hand in my pocket? What are you doing? You know? Like this weird stuff like that.

But the best was, uh the like bud Wise is super fessed. It was like Llo Clue, j Run dmc um, Jaqueline Hide which is Andre Harrell was in this band called Jack. I don't if you know that Jakol Hide was hip hop, and um, you know, I was backstage and we had this like for rabid hat, which was very much very back in the day, and they're like, where are you going. I'm like, why check out the crowd, Like if that's a good idea, I'm like, it's okay,

you know down you know. So I was walking around his Madison Square world and I'm working on the outer rotunda, and um, I start heading into the inner thing and I see these two guys kind of coming out and one guy grabs my hat runs into the crowd, and I chased him down because I like my I'm like, and I caught him. I'm like, okay, cool, give my hat back. He's like, it's my hat. Man. I'm like, I'm like, I got you know, so mayhem and sues. I'm holding one ear, this this two ear for a

rabbit hat. I'm holding it going back and forth, and then it's like, all of a a sudden, bunch of guys jump me and the same thing like start punching me up, like like I elbow some hey man in order, like what are you guys doing? You know? The hat rips, I keep the ear. I go back and I remember Rustles like with the hat man, I held up the ear and I was like, okay, they gotta be there. Yeah, No, I totally get him. You're the type of person someone

does you wrong. You don't get scared. You're gonna just dive in. You're gonna lean in. Uh. I mean, I thought, like, Okay, the gig is up being normal for like, hey, I got you man, it's cool, just give my hat back. What's this? You know that kind of thing. But it was a different it was a different mentality back then. I remember we had this um a Thursday nights. We had this thing called The Spot at dancer Tria, which is a really great club where we would go six

seven nights a week in the New York. It's really great. Okay, let's also be clear what time would you go, you know, not till twelve thirty one right now, and but we this would start probably eleven. We had this thing called the Spot. It was Death Jam Presents the Spot at Dancer try It was the third floor. We'd have a DJ and maybe a guest act like the BCS would play there once or twice, or spoon, you know, like Spoonty somebody would come and do a wrap and we

had this guy. Um, it was like god, oh, ship was busy. Be was the the official MC. So we just basically talk shit, Hey, what's your favorite restaurant? Is it needed? Is it Burger Gat? You know, and then you introduced DJ the act. Got a hundred dollars to do that, just and then pick up girls. They get re drinks. So I was responsible paying everybody. So I usually paying them about two thirty three in the morning, you know whatever, for the club and close. He's like,

hey man, he came to like one o'clock. Hey man, I get my money. I'm like, well, happen going to the office and that's it. I'll tell you what. Let me go up there. Now see if I get paid. I go up there, I cut back down. I'm like, okay, here you go. Hundred dollars. He's like, I just go back. So he comes up to me, he goes it starts. He goes, hey man, I borrowed twenty dollars. And I was in, I'm like, I don't know. Like I said, I'll go upstairs. See if I get paid early and

get your money. Give hundred. This is this that makes more sense. I give him hundred dollars, Like, hey man, it's only eight dollars. I'm like, what I got and it's a hundred? Can you let me ten? This is a college, like like we gave you a hundred dollars. Rick Potter pocketed most of the money and I put like twenty dollars in my town my pants so I could like get into a cab and go home. But um, that was a lot of fun. I felt where we were. But we just talked about but we're talking about really

is today as opposed to yesterday? Yeah? I guess. Um, I don't know. I mean, maybe kids listen. I don't have kids listen to this thing, but maybe they are having more fun. I don't know if they are. I can't imagine they are, to be honest, because you can't sunk up, you know, everything's everybody's tracking everything you do, where they're posting everything they do, so you can't do something stupid and nobody know about it, or you can't like venture out out of your comfort zone for a minute,

you know. So I feel tough. I don't have any kids, so it's weird. I don't I'm not tracking it the same way. I think you know that I don't have a kid, you the same thing, you know. Yeah, so it's it's hard to say. But then like my nephews fifteen, Um, he's just out here. Music is not that important to him. You know. I'm trying to get him like, hey, you want to get you talking. You know, he plays Dungeon Dragons kind of thing. I took him over a Bad

Robots meet JJ Abrams. That was, you know, that was like, you know, it's like meking Hendrix for me or something like that. Um, So, I don't know the kids who are into music. I think it's uh, I think just another thing that happens. It's just kind of the right on their phone or whatever. It's just not I don't have a penetrate, you know. So you're bay, So let's talk about today's generation. You say today's generation music does not have the priority that he used to. I don't

know if that's right. I mean I think it does, but it's just different, you know, like you don't fight about the band's kind of you know. I think it's like I don't think you invest as much into the acts. Okay, so if you talk to your fifteen year old nephew, you'd rather play dungeons and dragons. But if you go through some happening acts, does he know them? No, he doesn't know them. And it was like made it's on the pop stuff, you know, like maybe whatever the biggest

pop records are probably he knows. You know, he's not going any deeper. Well, let's just go down this rabbit hole a little bit deeper. Let's say, would you go on record that today's music is not as good as yester years? Different, you know different. I can't say it's not as good. It's not as good to me, you know that I'm talking about for you? Yeah? For me? Yeah, No, I don't think that's not made for me. Right, I'm fifty. I look at it totally differently because music represented something

different back then. That's I'm older than you are and listening to the radio. The radio had its own hip news whatever. That was the only outlet. There were no video games, etcetera. And in your era, you know there was. It was a little different. You have the dominance of MTV and then everything else could perklate, so you know, today there are many options. The other thing, I don't know. A friend I mentioned this all the time. Friend of mine wrote a book about Dwayne Allman. Dwyne Allman used

to take his guitar to the bathroom to practice. Almost no one's practicing that much anymore, whether we make it so. As I said, I don't want to make it a guitar as opposed to a keyboard, as opposed to a synthesize or whatever. But there's so many other options to become famous and to half click that people are not dedicated to music as much as they used to be. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, that's that's I would say. That sums it up. You know, it's just a different it's different. Okay,

but you've made rock records, so let's go deeper. As I'm putting you on the record, is rock dead? It's just changing. I think it's still. I think the metal shows they'll do it. There's always post just post provescent teenage boys who want to hear, you know, big beats and go to these shows. So I think that's that's always gonna make it regular rocket like straight up. I think that's pretty much over. Is there any way to be damned? I mean, I don't, I don't. I know,

it's a lot of records. I don't know if it permeated, you know, right, well, metal historically waxes and wings kind of like electronic music. But there's always a cult deep into it. Someone's gonna buy a Ramon shirt, Someone's buying a Misfit shirt, Someone's buying a motor Head shirt always. You know, that's kind of does your perennials they come back like weeds, you know. I certainly think that they've sold more Ramons shirts than albums, absolutely, you know, but

that's the big thing. And I grew up in the era we could tell somebody was hip how long their hair was, and then once I had, you know, the nerds were in their immediately cut all mind off. I don't know, that's my personality. But at the same time, the people putting the Ramons shirts on their babies are the people who never listened to the Ramans when they

were happening. No, But my other like Nickel Tour or whatever when I was a kid, Frankfurt's or a quarter kind of thing was how if a band came through town, you knew who went to the show, and it could be any It could be an r M, or could

be like you know, good pavement. They have to be necessarily the big metal band, but you'd see you'd be a Tower Records something like with a I was at that show, you know, like and like you had an instant you found your gang, you know, I mean the same way, and then you can kind of it was like an instant thing. Now it's like I think there aren't really at least I don't see it, even Kate. I don't see Katy Perry teacher. I don't even see

anything like that. And if I see somebody wearing a T shirt like Kenny Loggin's ironic, that's kind of cool. And it's two ars and it was they bought at vintage and it's some time and they got the stud muffin thing to put the bedazzler. They've bedazzled it. And now it's like you know there so it's all right. You know, there's no like like usaid be how you define yourself, you know. That's that's maybe we can talk

about that. You know, that's like you were in this gang, you know, and you knew like who you knew who you be for like, oh yeah, I was at that, I went to the Pixie Show or whatever. You know. Well, the other thing about it, I have a friend is a big concert promoter, and he's a little bit younger than you, not by much, and he says, I'm throwing a party. When we used to go to those shows, that was not a party. We were enthralled to the bands. It was really about the music. Forget that there weren't

phones whatever. You know, people people are grazers now where we were just wow, these are gods. How can we get closer? It's interesting. I mean, I guess the concert business little. When it's good, it's good, But I don't think there's no I think the bands, who's probably the last band that's gonna do Arenas, who's come through at

the latest? Maybe Musea, it's like the last band I could still probably Arenas in rock and roll rather than that Black Keys maybe depending on the burned it out there coming back had a band fleet sells a lot, but not quite arena. I mean, they don't have a catalog to be an arena, you know, to come back every year. They're not a c D see. You know. It's like so it'll be it's interesting to see what will happen. Um. But I think people just want to go to events, Like you said, throwing the party they

don't care. It's more important to go to Randall's Island than to see who's at Randall's Island. Right, Okay, But since you're very knowledgeable on hip hop, do you believe there's a scene or not a scene? What's different in the hip hop? I do? I'm not to be honest, it's a kind of I didn't leave hip hop man. Hip hop left me. Um, I'm not as invested anymore. A couple people I like, like Thundercat, I think it's a great producer or whatever. Like those people are talent,

you know. And I've grated that Kanye you know, I guess he's a genius because he says he's a genius. But um, I don't know, you know, I feel like there's nothing really Lahova. I'm still impressed with him, you know, I'm impressed with his voice and impressed with his his rhyming style. But um, I don't it was nice And again that's like an whole guy. Oh crouchyo guy. But the thing was the record. It was being heard and

it was as aspirational. And now it's like I got my footwear brand, you know, It's like and now there's so many other things involved with it. It doesn't feels as pure anymore, you know. And right about what about the beefs, Bill, I think they shut they should have let should have a coke and a smile and shut the funk up. I mean they getting paid, they get

like like there's no reason to be beat back. You know, when they were twelve inches and you were in different hoods and you were still living with your grandmother in Queens and they're the ones living that was really you know, that was still you know, I don't have any sorry Drake whatever, Bill, millionaires don't you know in beefs don't excite me. Well, the other thing, as you mentioned earlier,

they're more about the brand than the music. It's like people want to be famous as opposed to be musicians. It's just a stepping stone. It's about to see. Uh. You know, I got an Instagram accountany about three thousand followers whatever, I don't I don't don't post that much. But um, I went to see Trapy Scott and um

what's his face? Little guy from Compton Kendrick and uh and I posted like the Travy Scott came out of this fire, this wing bird with the spinning fire and I posted a small little video on my thing and I had a fifty thou beauties because I tagged, you know, I tag Travy Scott or whatever, and it was like the next thing. He was like like, can this be right? So, I mean the power they you know, they're very powerful people, so I can understand. Okay, Musically, what do you think

about Kendrick. I think he's great, you know. I think I think he's one of the you know, one of the better ones for sure. And I think he's it's emotional, it's you know, I think it's his aspirational. I think he wants to take I think, whatever, there's a white guy, but I think he wants to take his people somewhere. You know. He's definitely of that. You know. I think he's a leader, which is which is great. I think, you know, sorry Ny, I think Conny is a clown.

I think Kendrick is a real leader, you know. Okay, let's go back to one of your peaks, and not that you don't have peaks mean in the future, but you produced the first two Black Crows album, okay, and the first one was Gigantic Kid. How did you end up producing that um, that was that's a good story. So I was working with Rick at def jam Rick rub Ruben, and he made this movie called Tougher Than Leather. If you have seen it, Have you seen Tougher than Leather?

Starting run dmc No, No, I didn't see it. It's like bad. It's like a really it's like a black exploitation film. You know, it's low budget exactly black exploitation. Um, low budget. He's in it. He starts, he wrote, start, he started, and directs it. Well. Actually, you know, there's this Rick Rubin's series on Showtime and they show part of that movie with Rick in it. I know he's embarrassed by it. But you know it's completely racist, but

in the best way. You know, it's over the time. Everybody, no one's spared. It's like it was like the era of earlier Howard starting to makes fun of Jews, makes fun of Blacks, makes fun Chinese people, Asians, everybody, no one's spared. Everybason equally insulted. But I remember telling me he sat next to day. He played for David. He screened for David Geffen because they wanted he was looking at a distribution and Geff's like you can't put this movie out. It's like, what do you mean goes the

way you talk about the Jews? And there's one there's only one line about Jewish people in the whole thing, Like there's only one cut and that's the only thing he saw. And Rick was like, he's how proud of it? I think he's embarrassed And maybe we'll have to all watch the documentary and the genius mind of Rick Rubin to figure out if if he is embarrassed by that. So he's making this movie. He kind of was pulling away from Russell. He didn't really want to miss Simmons. Sorry,

Russell Simmons. He Um moved to l A, moved to the into the Montreal, didn't come back and never went back to New York. So I took a job at A and M for a year because Steve Robowski signed the def JAM deal to Colombia and now he was the head of A and MIGHT, so he hired me like a low you know, like a director of A or whatever it was. I went out and so you know, I want to try to see a couple of bands.

Um and then I was in. They sent me to Atlanta see a band called bare Back I think it was, and it kind of like a southern boogie band, and I thought they were just gonna be playing in town with so I was online at a Kentucky literally at a Kentucky Fried Chicken at the Marriott Hotel where I was staying in front of me had long hair. I'm like, hey, there any other bands in this town. He's like, well, this man called Mr. Crow's Gardener pretty good playing tonight

at the Peacock or somewhere whatever. It was like, okay, cool, I'll check it out. After these guys, I found that this band is playing about forty minutes outside of town, like some dive bar. I take a cab out there. The manager is also the lyric right it hands me a loose leaf book with lyrics. I'm like, what this like in the lyrics man, I'm like okay, you know, and then I'm singing in the back of this club and the band's playing. He's literally singing the songs to

me in my ear. I'm like, I gotta get out of here, and he's like, okay, we've got the second set. Come on me. Like so I meet the man, He's like, hey, I'm let it stay for the second set. It's great. I got back into cab, travel back into Atlanta, which is like a half hour whatever. I get to the club and they were over, Hey, what happened to the Girl's Garden? Oh? They they finished. I'm like, okay, cool. And I was living in New York at the time.

I got back to New York and I look in the Voice and they were playing in New York the next week, so I just happened to go and and they were good. I mean, he was a presence. You know, Chris was great, great, Chris Robinson great. He's you know, he's a he was a front man. He had it back then. He had the moves, you know, he had the whole thing. As brother was kind of handsome and like with like mysterious, you know. He's also he was

just this young guy. And uh. I watched that set and it was kind of like dang, and everything's like very up up up up. And at the end they played Down the Streets by and the Stooges and they played No More, No More by Aerosmith, Love That No More. I'm like, dreamna that and I'm like okay. So I met them, I said, h that's great. I said, let

me ask you something. I said, he played this whole set in the last two songs you played had nothing to do with the other stuff, and like what gives And they're like, well, we're the most popular band in Landa right now. We play a lot of colleges and stuff like that, and this is what our audience is like. But we like this, like oh interesting, okay. So we

stayed in touch, exchanging numbers, no email back then. And then I remember men Peter manch our mutual friend, took me to see to Monsters Rock in Dallas and I had gotten this uh cassette. I know really, I had a cassette and had a Sony Walkman with the extra bass boom base on it. And I was listening to the Faces record, Um, not as good as a wink, And I said, that's a terrible record except for the hip. That's not true Miss Judy's Farm. Like no, that was

compared to the second album. In the first album, Miss Judy's Farm, it's pretty good and also good, Hey goodhead a huge Rod Stewart film. I was just I mean, I bought that album. I always still owned it. Well whatever, so you're used to that So I'm listening to it and I'm like, well, this is interesting. I'm gonna play this for Chris Robinson. So I called him up like hey, what are you. Hey man, I'm down Texas, blah blah blah whatever. I'm gonna play something. So I played in

Miss Judi Farm in the song you don't like right. Well, as I say, certainly that album have the right sound, I just didn't think the material was the songs are right, yeah, maybe in the B So I put and put the ear you know, the ear phone to the speaker and standing man, man, dude, dank, you know. I was playing whatever here hello, Like right, what's up? Like, um, you

sent me that record? I'm like showing up wrong. So I send him a copy and then we kept a touch and then like a couple of months later, like hey, so that was not the sound you saw it heard in New York. Couple of months later, it's a couple of months. Like a couple of months later, he's like, hey, come down, we got a bunch of new songs. Um come down and see us. So I went down. I was like, oh, this is it's kind of rock now.

And then we made a demo at them, and I was I wanted to sign him, and then I was like, well, can we do development because they were doing these development deals and they're like they're kind of tricky to get out of, you know whatever, so they're kind of hemming and hawing. I'm like, well, that's not fun. And then Rick called me. He's like, hey, I'm not moving back to New York. I'm saying in California. Come out. I'm gonna start a new company. It's be more rock based.

Just get out here. I'm like, all right, So anything you want to do. I said, well I found a big He's do what the hell you want. I don't care, you know, just come out here. So I moved out here in my thirties, year eighty nine, and then I told we signed the band. And I took about a year to get the songs going, like back and forth. I go there a couple of times. They said, we sent a sets back and forth, and then I went down there and then we made a record in uh

around this time in eighty nine. We're around the summer, sometime in the summer at eighty nine, and it came out first week of January. Thirty years was just insane. Okay, did you know it was going to be such a monster. I knew it was the best week we had to you know, we had to offer. And then there was there was them at that age, and we had one guitar every everything. I think every every song starts with the one guitar on the left speaker, because I thought

we knew how to do at that point. And then I think the best thing was getting Chuck level to come down and play the stone towards the stones in the Almond Brothers everything, and that really took it to another level. And I was like, well it's good, you know, I said, I you know, if it doesn't want to tack the copies, they can make it. We can make another one and they can tour and get an opening

slot or something like that. And that they just was sometimes it's just you know, who knows better be lucky than good. I wish, but hard to hear. The loose idea was to do that. That was I think it's Chris's you know, Robin, and he's like, I said, we should do something, you know. And then my idea was to make it like walk this way basically basically rip Buffa walked this way and then just turning it. You know, but I think I was like, we should see some Odo song. It was just, you know, we could be

listening to a lot of stuff, like we picked that one. Okay, did you make a good amount of money from that record? I worked for Rick Rubin. How much money you think I made? Okay, let's go back to the least have those things? Uh, it makes like a catalytic converter. I'm not sure I get to joke about the catalytic. They camp downright, tamp down what you can make, you know, like or whatever. He's like a governor where they call

those things like some cars, like like rented cars. I have to think, called a governor back and we let you go over sixty five or something that I know I did. Okay, I look, I did. Fine. You know she'll ever get paid on it? Oh yeah I did. Of course it didn't be today. No, I don't think so. I mean, he's I don't know. Every now and then a check shows up, he's moved. He's moved the label four times, so who knows? You know. Okay, let's start at the beginning. Where where was your born? And you know,

for the chechen Chong song. What's that? Do you know? That chechen song? Song? Exit forty three? Long Island where I grew up. You know, I grew up in Connecticut. I'm not super Long Island. So my I was going, well, let's see, Um, I was born in Valley Stream and then we moved to Siuset when I was young. My dad, Greek immigrant, came over when his fifteen didn't speak any language, married my mom when he was eighteen maybe she was. It's funny. We had our fiftieth anniversary. We did the math, like,

wait a minute, was seventeen my mom's seventeen was? You got married? Like? But she turned eighteen shortly after, so he was I think he was twenty maybe or night he was like nineteen and they got married. Their children, you know, getting married, might have an older brother's four years old, four years older. Um, just the two of you, just the two of us. So okay, So your mother she Greek, yeah really, but she better through the network he met yeah exactly, he met food, food church or whatever.

You know, somehow they knew and um, it's funny. I mean, I find an interesting. Some people don't don't follow me when I say this, but it's right. It's both my grandfather's were born in America as a turn of the century and taking back to Greece's infants. That makes and no one knew and I my dad's dad died when he was like three. He never really knew him. And my mom's dad, I always asked him Babu was Greek for grandfather, like boo, what happened? Goes I was a baby,

you know, one told me why. I don't know, like he has no no one has any memory of why they were he was he was he was born in Michigan, and my other grandfather was born like in Massachusetts. And then they went back, which is strange. Maybe they came and they didn't thing that people went back. Not really,

it's so odd, you know, it's very odd. So my dad technically wasn't I guess he was born in American citizens He didn't go through Ellis Island, but he came over on the boat a fifteen in the in the fourth in the you know, in the four years, late fifties whatever. Do you have a heavy Greek association personally? Uh? Yeah, I mean it's kind of it's ingrained to you when you're a kid. You know, it's it's um, it's interesting, it's it's very much about the church, and it's not

necessary religion. It's just the church is like a social center, you know, and that's what it is. And you know, and my dad was a dyner owner of course, because we're Greek, so you have a you have a whole network of diner owners and and those are your friends. And you know, I don't think my parents had many other out you know, until maybe we had the neighbors for Ferrars. They were Italians. I was okay, but outside of like, didn't have any friends who were in Greek,

you know what I mean. He's like, not just by whatever, okay, other than having these roots, are there anything you do today that is Greek associated? Just eat? My mom sends me spinash pie and I and I get a lot of mileage out of that. Um this my secret man camp where I go. Um, Bob we are came by. We had dinner and I gave him a piece of the spinach pie and he's like, I said, oh, Boab, you gotta try this. My mom made it. He's eating it now. You know, if you seem Bob, he has

like he looks at he's got that joant. He's like, you know what, spinish pie is very flaky. He's got a flake of Philo doll over his mouth. He's like, did your mother really make this? Like yes, Bob, He's like it's quite delicious. And I said, well you know what you're tasting, Bob. He's like no, I said, that's love.

So you know, that's that's the thing. I mean, that's why I'm so fat, because she just wants they just forced food and they come out twice a year and refrigerator becomes you know, like there's only a limit to how much we can fit in your mom, I'll make a room, I'll make room, and they still just want

to feed me. Is We were having Christmas dinner a while back, like twenty years ago, and he's like yeah, and they were talking, you know, we haven't talking, and then yeah, Peter stopped eating and Peters my brother, Like Peter stopped eating? What do you guys do? And my mom was like, we took the plate. We took his plate,

we put in front of you. You You ate all the food, you're happy, you know, Like I was three, How do I know if I this stuff in my so that's probably why that's the most Greek thing about me is probably food and guilt. Now, your wife is not Greek. No, she's what you call like Senny's non Greek or um I guess. I remember we got married married twenty years and um so we've been together for like nine before that. And he said, you know, we should probably get married,

like sounds good. I said, I want a big church wedding and she's like, shut up. You know she knows me. I don't want to. I said, no, I want a big church wedding. She's like, I don't understand. I said, not for me. But if we don't get married in the Greek church, your life is not going to be you know, you you my mother will make you miserable and you should live the day you'll regret it. So we go down to the gi Me the Saint Sophia is. It's great. They do a Greek festival, which is the

best thing. If you've been to a Greek festival. Well, I've been to a Greek I've been to a Greek festival. We're saying, Sophia. It's kind of like Normandy and uh Pico. And there's a place called Papa Cristo's across the street. You've been there. It's like a Greek restaurant and they do boils and tyd of cheat. It's great and it's the end of the summer. You should go. It's it's

a good festival. So we go down there and um talking to the priest and telling him, you know whatever, and my wife's Roman Cathy at least, that she's bad. They've even baptized, Like, yeah, she's been baptized. He's like, and he tries to upsell it right away. Have you thought about the Greek religion and it's blah blah blah blah.

And my wife's great eight aunt is a litizable. So this is Greek Orthodox is Greek Orthox, which is basically because the right next to me in a high school, Spiro had the us, he had the locker, and his father was the priest at the Greek Orthodox church. Well, that's what's nice is that it's so when they broke off, I came up with the rules of It's it's pretty much similar, except this too. Like the two main difference of priests can marry, which means it's you're much more normal.

You can be much more normal. Um, the archbishop isn't for the archbishop is the first among equals, they say, So it's not like he's the only one who God talks. It was like, if anything happens, we all looked at him, he'll tell he'll take us all on the you know, Like, so which is I think it's a nice sentiment. And it's something to do with the Jewish calendar. We can't have Easter till have to pass Over, because I guess pass Over was the last last supper was a pass

over dinner. But um, so he's like tying upseller and my great her great aunt is a littlebath seat you know that is Seaton Hall University. Yeah, she's the first. She's the first. I just changed the name. The guy gave all the money. I think that's the one further down she's But sister Mary Liveath Seaton was the first American CANNONI st So I'm like, oh, her great auntswer Mary of the seat, and you know it's like I will table it. She can get married. It's fine, you like,

you know, mess with that. So let's stopped for one second. You went Greek Orthodox? Are you a believer? I don't know. So you okay, I'm not gonna push that, do you. I mean, I don't know, I don't know what. I don't know what's gonna happen, you know. Okay, so you do get what Barry did the Greek Orthodox just to make it so we could come home. There's this thing called stefana, which is they put these have you been

to Greek weddings that three hours long? But they put these crowns on your head and they go back and forth everything three times, three times, and Stephanas these these two crowns that they marry you with. Um As call my mom in the car, like, okay, we just brought some sides. You. Oh, we're getting married next week, but no one's coming. I don't care. As long as you're getting married at church, makes no difference to me. And

that was the end of it, you know. So so they didn't even come out for the wedding thing on the phone. Wedding we just got it was my brother was on his way to Nagao for some reason for the Winter Olympics, and her sister was in Texas, and you just need you need someone to stand up for you. There's just the four of us on a Thursday afternoon, you know, getting married in the morning. In the morning was empty when we left. So what did your brother do?

He's in advertising, he was, so I feel bad. So you have kids, you have brothers, no two sisters, so he's older. And then my dad went from restaurants apply to this, I mean this is this is just for meeting you. But he went from restaurants supplies to restaurants, I mean only restaurants, a restaurants supply business. And my mom's brother was his partner. And then my mom's brother had midlife price, So you want to go to law school at age forty or whatever. And he thought, well,

we'll just sell the business. And you know, my dad, my dad was still a young man. He's like, I'm not gonna retire. What are we gonna do? So my brother got kind of he just finished college. He got suckered into it, and he got trapped in a family business. And while that was happening, is when I was out moving in California, I was sending it. But he TV's gotta have, you know, platinum records, and like, you know, and I felt bad. He got stuck at the things.

So he's an AVERTI you work with Donnie Deutsch for a long time. Um, he set up like a company with this like urban um d Rush, this urban Donnie Deutsch thing. And then well how did in with the family business? Eventually my dad retired, so my my brother came in for about he's stuck there about ten years and then you know, and then my dad just kind of got rid of it. But was there any money when he sold it? Yeah? Absolutely? Okay, they had the

condo in Florida. We still have the building. They had the condo in Florida with all the other Greek owners in Fort Laura Dale, which they still have the house. I grew up in Sais you know, so there's snowbirds they call it. Okay, So your father owned a diner until you were how old? Uh? Teenager? May just a twelfth thirteen? And then he had this restaurant. How close was the diner to your house? Up five minutes? Okay? Did your mother work in the diner? So? How much

were you in the diner? I was I was just to feel potatoes. I'd still put me in the back, turn over a big like fifty gallon cauldron and give me a stack of potatoes. I said, there peeled potatoes. My dad was like, you know, he he left the house at fourth three in the morning. It was a weird. We'd always have dinners a family, because breakfast and lunch was really in the dinner. It was. It wasn't like a four hour kind of vibe. It was more like

a right next to the train station. So it's a lot of breakfast, a lot of lunch, and then my dad would come home, we'd have dinner as of family. My mom would go and close up, and and then my dad would fall We watched Courtravettie's father and he fall asleep in the lazy boy and I had to wake him up, and then it all started over again.

If we went out, like on a Sunday night U to like a church dance, we'd go to the dinner, he'd open it up and start making the muffins, you know, at midnight whatever, and he sometimes he didn't sleep there. It was like, you know, it's it's a blood business. You know, it's a real restaurant business in general, but it would be the type of thing that you kind of owned the place. You'd go and say, hey, you

don't want a cheeseburger. My mom had no idea how to shop for you know, forever, because she took everything out of the wall again from the thing, and you know we'd have to stay. You know, it's come home another thing, like I come up from school. Hey, I think I come home with Tim whatever, my friend, and we're gonna do band practice in the basement. Whatever. He got hungry man? All right, something small? All right, I'll

make you some steaks. You know. It's like you know it didn't you know we had a deep fry in our house. It's like, you know, so was that kind of thing? Okay, So let's turn to music. Were you a big music fan from growing up? Yeah? I loved it, you know was um it's funny. Uh. I think I told you I've met all Beatle I met all four Beatles. I'll tell you that story, right, so, uh George Paul and Ringo event later. You know, once I was out here. But I met John as a kid at Walt Disney World. Again,

I was young. It was like seventy one, I want to say, right when they were breaking up. I think it's it's documented somewhere. How do you meet John Lennon at Disney at the Polynesian Hotel, at the buffet of what was she doing there? He was there with Julian, there with Julian. I think I'm pretty sure it was Yoko. Some people think maybe it's made paying I can't. I have to do the research again. But that's where he was. That's where he signed his disillusion papers for the Beatles.

But um so, my brother, like I said, my brothers four years older than me, and I knew the Beatles kind of from the cartoons, and I like the music and whatever. But I'm online and all of sudden he's all he's not, you know, on top of me. He's like sausages. Like every time, every time I put some on my plate, he was like, he's like pancake. I'm like in the accent. It was just it was all

too much. Like I had never met a British person, you know, when I was like five, maybe four, I was four, maybe four or five whatever, like this guy who he is whatever? Okay, maybe it's a little seven of it. Okay, he's like, oh, potatoes, potatoes, potato, like like like yeah, potatoes, you know, And I'm not gonna lie to you. Always been a fat kid, So I got back to the table and we're sitting like one table over from them. My parents aren't just freaked out

because they were working. It didn't really you know, it wasn't like as much of them. And my brother grabs, He's like, what were you saying? Dude? What were you saying? And I like, I don't know. I just started crying at the table, like I lost my ship at the table and just I was crying and like, what do you say? What are you saying? Leave your brother lane? What do you say? Like? Who is that guy? Like my Dad's like who is this guy? You know? Like and so then they had this man made lagoon. Will

you do these like power boats? And that was with my dad in the power boat and lending comes like hey, sausages, and my dad's like, who's your friend? So that was funny. But music can ask if you remember four years old he was sent I think I was six or seven? Okay? Could he walk around freely? Yeah? It was like it was I don't know. I guess he was who knows,

but man, I don't think anybody with him. But I think my mom would get these um like Dick Clark records and it and like twenty twenty fifties tracks aside, and I would listen to those constantly Earth Angels and she's just saying Earth Agel to me, and I got like, I really had to Simon and Garfunkel when I was like, ah, like Cecilia was a big one for me, and I just loved it. And then I started playing drums. My brother got a drum step for Christmas. Of course I

want to play drums. He but he was, you know, fourteen and I was ten, and uh so he started lessons. I started lessons. I started getting pretty good, and then I'm on eleven and twelve. I'm like eleven, twelve year old, and don't want to play with me in the junior high band because I'm I'm still in grade school. So

that Christmas, I'm like, I want a bass guitar. I had no idea what it was was I want a bass guitar because I knew every band had a bass player, and so they got me a bass player for I think about six or seventh grade that Christmas, and by January I was in four bands because oh, you play, you gotta be in our band, man, you know. So that's and then I turned over to bass, and then I never looked back. No, you did you take piano lessons as a kid, I took I just took drum

lessons and bass lessons. Basically I'm not taking I mean, I can fake it pretty good. I can pick out the notes. I can I can read a little bit, but I'm not I'm not a highly skilled musician. So when you're in a high school, you're playing in bands and playing a couple of bands. And played Max when I was sixteen, Maxes, Kansas City. Yeah, yeah, what what kind of music were played? We were a silly pomp band. It was kind of crazy. We played a biker night

at Max's and they loved it. They thought we were cute. You know, you've been to Max's back. So they middle of those long tables like those my ar lead singer kind of walked out table like songs like they dreamer dream like these little kids, and like they got to kick out of it. Played Max's different lounge in the city, my father's place, and I'll remember my father in Roslyn. We played a bunch of un like the place called Uncle Sam's. Also, rather that there was a competing place.

We played a bunch of these places when we were still young, very young, we were I mean, we're okay. We had one guy who was Phili Bono, sweet guy. His dad was uh in charge. He had an air freight company at the airport. If I mean that's all I need okay, Oh yeah. He was in and he was in summer camp for most of Phil's childhood. He was away at summer camp um and he kind of funded everything, Like we get we had a great gear, we had a truck, we had like lighting things. So

we're very we're very pro. That's pretty serious. And was there a dream we all thought were gonna, you know, let's do it. He was. He was a songwriter, and I kind of it's where I started, Like he was a songwer. I kind of would range it and say, look, we can't just be playing the same four songs, important chords all the time. We gotta do something different. And

this is Petty became really influential to me. Like Dan the Torpedoes wreck it came out and I was like, I really studied that, and like we had a bridge. We need to say something interesting, we need this. So I started arranging these songs and that's what became that's what led me to be want to be you know production. Okay, so you're in the high school, you graduated from high school and then what go to n y U, which is okay, but why n y you? It's a good story. Again,

I might be boring you. But so I applied to m y U because I had this music business program, which is kind of a morphous and weird. It wasn't the Clive Davis School. It was a it was a dual major you can do. It was music and business. I play to use l A because I wanted to

go to California. It was it's a dream. And you know, you live out the East coast Boston University because it was it wasn't music college town at a time, and I think Syracuse and my brother went there and then in the in the spring, whenever he finds out where they're going, it's like, I got it to this this. I got to see my guidance counselor, Mr McMahon. I said, hey, MGA, what's happened? He goes goes. Oh, I didn't send anything. You think I didn't send anything out? Where do you

want to go? I said, Well, at this point, I guess y U you know because I've gone I've been going to the city and playing in the city. He's like, okay, you go at any whet you We'll go to the Chinese restaurant, bring your mother, we'll talk about it. Pools a public school by this gets this gets weird. I go to his office. He goes, all right, we go getting his Dodge Dart, late model Dodge Dart, no license player like. Mr McMahon goes because don't worry. They know

who I am. You know who I am, right, George. I'm like, hey, you'm Mr McMahon, my guy, that's counsel. But you know right. I'm like, okay, goes through a stop sign. He's like, they saw him. You don't worry about it. Then starts telling me the story of falling down. No Bruce like, I'm kind of following it. I'm like, okay, he goes because you know who I am, right, he's Jesus. He thinks he's Jesus. We get to the restaurant. I'm umen parking a lot, ma'am. I see that someone with

the baby. I see the baby have nothing but happiness, enjoying with this baby. Is that blah? Blah blah. See George, I kne who I am. I'm white and freaking out. My mom's already this Chinese restaurant called Moers, which is a great Chinese restaurant in the the Woodberry Commons. We sit down, Sophie, your son is this blah blah blah blah blah. He starts. He starts giving a sermon. Basically, he has a glass of wine. I call it, you know, I like, this is my but and I was like, oh, he's such

a good boy. You know, we don't get him done with. You get Sophie. I promise you're gonna George tell your mother you you're on in respect them. Okay, great, I don't need anything. Mom's eating the whole time. I take my food to go. We get in the car and my mom's like, you were very hungry. What happened? I go, did you hear what the guy was saying? Oh, he's out of his mind? But we're going to n y U. You're head to say that we're in. A week later, he gets committed. We got n y U. Somehow I

have no idea to the state. It's mystery because I wanted to do like a short film about I think it's like a really interesting film about guidance counsel of things. He's Jesus and you get you. He gets committed. We get a down Yu, and then the rest of decision is another funny story when we get down why you? But just it's funny that you said that this was today,

I'd be in therapy. We probably owned the land that sizz the school district was not you know that we'd have a huge settlement, you know, I mean like, and I called my mother, She's like, I don't know. But he got in YU, So I guess we got you that. I get the n y U. And I see this guy, Professor Broderick this September, you know, being later early September, dog days of New York City. He's got a blue blaze.

He's like a jazz hipster. Let's say Mr Burns kind of with gray hair, tall, like six four like Hi, Professor Brodrick, George Culius, first year you know this music busy program? He runs it. What should I take? He looks at me. He opens like a steelcase test takes out a a tall boy and a round taper back. This is how long has it been sitting so it's piss warm. I was up takes a few stive because hey man, I don't know you had that take whatever turns you on. So this is great. This is the

best school in the world. So for two years I took like film class, like some biology for like for med students, like I just picked these things. He gets retired somehow, they call me to the teen's office, Mr colis what we've been doing here for two years? Like hey man, just taking what turns me on? Like well, you have like three credit stores, this weird major that doesn't really exist, and this and that. It was like through the So they put me back on track, but

I didn't. I went four years, but I didn't graduate, and I want my degree. If I've now that it's the Clive Davis School of whatever. I talytically if you were to go back, how much school they say you short? I think probably about a year and a half or something that, um it's funny. Uh. I had someone looking up and they were like like, oh man, no problem, Like, oh man, I think you got like a year and a half. It's just too much and this and that.

So I haven't really and by the time to be Honest, my third year school, I was already working, you know, we were stopped really going to class, would be in the studio four or five in the morning, and you know, so it was but senior I was really coming at all. So I don't blame them. It's not like, Okay, so you're in there, you're in this program, when do you

meet your compatriots? Um? I went out with a girl that Rick dated Reuben, and then he was the social committee chairman, which meant they gave him a couple hundred bucks every three months to throw a party. And he'd get as much cheap grain alcohol you can get, and I get like a like a hip hop DJ or somebody to come down. And this was how long after we're going to n y U. This is my junior year. Okay,

this is this is my junior year. And then um, yeah, so he'd throw these parties and I just started helping him, you know, d help him DJ and Karen Crates whatever, and then he but he was hiring a DJ. He wasn't DJJ. He was the DJ. And then he have but then you have guests, you have guest people come and scratch whatever, blah blah blah, so helping the crates

and talent whatever. And then so what year we in eight five, eight four, I started eighty two and um, and then he put out this record call It's Yours A little bit slower You're coming. You're have a nexus with him. At the time he's throwing these parties, he's also starting to put out records. He had made one record that he that that he with this guy called Tela Rock and this DJ called Jazz J called It's Yours. It had n't been out yet, and it went out

went out that summer. There was one of those things you heard everywhere, wasn't on the radio, you know, was that you heard every car, every every boom box. You know, let's be clear. Is that because you know, if that things don't happen by themselves. Was Rick working at that hard? No, it was. It was a natural. It was a very natural. It was a zeitgeist of hip hop at that moment. It was a great beat. The this guy Tiler Rock had an amazing voice, um, interesting lyrics. You know, it

was just it just took hold. It is magical. It's one of those things that there was no you know, no one's working at really he had it, So that's what That was the first def Chan release, but def Chan wasn't really a label yet. It was the def Chaan release through Party Time, which was Mars Leavey. So I never got exactly, you never got paid. And then he met Rick Russell thought that was I thought Rick was a black person. So he's like, I'm gonna meet

this guy Rick Ruben. They met each other. Now Russell was doing what Russell was managing run the MC and producer. He was a producer also and he was managing them, and he was he's runs you know, he runs brother so okay, but he's not going in why are you? He lives at the FRAC City. He's older than us. He was at City. He's a couple years older. I think when the Queen's College was dropped out um they started label and the first official release was it was l L Cool j Um. So that's when I kind

of went all time. So I took it. You're dating his ex girlfriend, you're helping him with the social parties. How do you become all of a sudden invested in all this ship. Yeah, it's all about the hang. That's my masket. But not everybody knows he's gotta be cool like you gotta be you know, you gotta be you gotta be easy person to be around, and you gotta have you gotta have input, and plus you had it was a head of hands. Back then, Um, everything was.

There's no computers, so everything was manual. So if you listen to these old records, these these first eight death Jam records, and basically just a drum machine, a guy yelling and some scratching. There's not much more music involved than that. But if you wanted, if you want to, if you just want the high hat to play, you have physically mute everything else, so you need his hands on the deck. So everything was like everything was manual

that It's hard to explain it, but it was. It took a couple of people to work the desk because all right, he comes break, you need to kick drum, who's on kick drump, you're on kick drump? You know who's on scrap that kind of thing, so you have to and then you'd added pieces together and so it was it was a more uh kind of like that. And then the student I knew music, you know, so that was like another thing, and you know, that's it

just became you just started running around them. You started run around the best, the beasts and stuff like that, and just go to the studio and help. Were you a hip hop fan? I loved soul music. I loved old black music, the blue stuff like that. So through that, you know, that was like the new that was the newest black music, you know, So you were a fan of the music stuff we were doing and the stuff. Okay, so now they start deaf jam. I mean, you're you're

an official employee. What I'm a I'm a I'm getting I'm getting college credit. I'm not getting I think I'm not getting paid, of course not. But I have three or four jobs. Is the college radio promo guy? I was ah, I did sales and I answered the phones and stuff like that. When it was basically Rick Rick dorm room. So and I had different people. I also

made different people to be those things. So when I was calling up, I can't remember the names that I had, like Donald Trump, Yeah, yeah, I'm John John whatever yeah, um uh So I would call and then I would also be responsible for getting for shipping labels. So you'd make this Let's give you the quick story. So you go to the studio, which this is another thing that was I think I might have told you the story, but it was very You knew kind of right away

where the record was working. You'd go to the studio, make a record. You cut an ascetate, go to this guy, Um, who's the guy boom boom boom gardener that we had a guy in New York, Herbie Herbie Powers. Maybe this guy. You get an a state smell like a bowling ball, which is great. You just didn't smell it all day. You go to the Roxy two in the morning, three in the morning. I asked the guy to play. You go to up to the d J booth. He played this for us. He put it on. He's like, all right,

wait around, he'd wait around, he put it on. You're sitting up on top, you're looking down the dance floor. Record comes on and you watch and if people walked off weren't interested, you knew this is not ready, this is not a record we should put out. People like looked up to the DJ booth went what's you know? Because also the thing with Hippop, it's all about the new which was interesting, which is fun. This is really not what my personality is. But it's also about the

newest record, the newest thing, the freshest to flow. You know. That was like it was very much and not knowing what was coming next. So like play a record, they look up, give you the you know, like give you like put your hands in the kind of people get excited, like all right, this record is ready to go. Let's press it. Who's money were you using? So Rick Rick's dad was the baby shoot king of Long Island Total you know south Shore, you know, new money kind of

thing that does anything wrong, you know. I was saying, it's like, um, so from that point, okay, we're gonna make this thing. We had these labels. Labels were printed

in Brooklyn, but the pressing plant was in Jersey. So I'd go to Brooklyn on the subway, get two boxes of five thousand label whatever it's five thousand labels, take them the Port Authority put him on a bus to New Jersey and they'd go to the plant and then the plant would send to test pressings back and I go back to the Port Authority, wait for the wait for the Union bus to come in. Take that and then I would take it down. We'd give us to

DJs and stuff. Like that. And then we had we had an official distributor in New York who was like, because indies, they didn't pay you to you put the next record out. So there was a there was a

there's a place what's that called. So we'd have one official place in Long Island City that would handle all the stuff and they would they would order directly from the plant once we once the record without and but then we get two boxes and sell it on the sly to this woman uh Pearl on like eleventh Avenue in the forties, and she would buy for cash and she just go cash and my job was to go drop him off there and you have to cash. But back then it was all training hookers that area. It

wasn't like as hip as it is now. And so I take a subway there or whatever. I walk over with these two boxes and then I had like five in all his money. I put it down my pants and I treat myself to a cab to get home. So that was the beginning. That was the first eight records. There were these twelve inches and then uh Steve Bounci signed def Jam as a label. So who signed Jeff Steve Abowski? Oh, Steve Roboski d okay. He signed def Jam as a label to Columbia and then they started.

They kind of took over the stuff, and then the first album was Yellow Cool J Record Radio, which again like you kind of know. So I'm coming out from Black Rock. I've got a bunch of cassettes now, and I'm walking down the street. I'm on Fifth Avenue. I see these two kids who are carrying a boom box that's twice there, black Rock the CBS, but black Rock CBS building. And these two kids are like sharing a boom box, this giant radio and the cover of the

cool Radio, which is basically the radio. And so I see these two guys and they listen to something whatever. I don't know what it is. I'm like, I'm like, hey, hand. They look at me first, I think I'm weird. I'm like hand in a cassette. It's a local J. They look at it, they see the radio. They look back up at me, like what's happening here? Exactly to look at the thing. Took out their cassette, put this cassette in, shut it, and I think rock the Bells is the

first track. L L cool J is hardest. Let me hit play. They both looked down at the radio, they looked at me, put the radio on their shoulder. Then they were happy, and I remember I went back down. I went back to the dorm room like l is going to blow up, Like why do you say that? Said, I just gave these two kids. They couldn't be like they were like twelve fourteen, and they just put it on it, said they It was the happiest of this.

And at this point Rob Botski was a club. He's a director of Vice Spread Vice Prevor or whatever the titles of Colombia. So that was the That was the first album, the first Deep Channel album, and there was I think it's the first rapt record to go gold, maybe first album to go gold. Okay what came after? And it was the best twelve inch which is pretty fun. And then the BC's album Okay, how did the Beast? You weren't the BC's on tour with Madonna before that

album because it was a single. They they've done these two singles, um and she took them. I had to say to her credit, you know, we'd see around and she was cool. You know, she took them and she was even when they want to get I mean he's uh m c a. It was the greatest, you know, yeah, I mean they would they would practice their routine. They practice the routines at thet our dorm in the basement. But I remember I went to see a show. It's like, you know, I've been all around the world and this

is Madonna. This is like a virgin's over every girl's thirteen fourteen in the audiences. Like I've been around all that, I've been around this motherfucker. I can tell you right now. There's no pussy like Boston like, and the kids are hard five. It's like, you know, like get these people.

Like there's so many complaints, but she kept them, and that, uh the best was the end of the tour was at the Garden and I went out and got a bunch of super soakers and during her set they ran on and they were underwear and they hosed her down with Then that was like a big That was a big event. Okay, do you have any idea license to It was gonna be so gigantic. Again, I think we're just making me. You know, I was firstfully involved, but

I'm saying I think I sang on. It may played something, but it was like, I think it was so happy. We just make ourselves happy, like there was so it was. I explained to it. It's such a like they were like princes of the city, you know, and somehow just by being in the court, you were like this thing like everything was open to you. Everybody want to talk to you. People come downtown. That's when downtown started coming

to these things. And you know, Lauren Hutton and try to pick me up at some club one time, you know, and I was a hundred pounds lighter and a lot cuter, but you know, and it was just a moment. It was a very magical moment. They could do no wrong. You know, they were anointed whatever reason. It was still it wasn't worldwide, but you just felt good about it. But you had no idea it was gonna don't think you never know, you know, you don't think it's gonna

be that crazy. Did you read Did you read the book? Their book? I haven't read it. Yeah, I skimmed it. The books. It's amazing. Get it on tape because they tell a lot of the stories and they have just with my nephew last time. He has the book and the tape. Yeah, I listened It's Funny to a Treat to Vegas, but I never drove the Vegas like I'm gonna I'm gonna specifically go to the Vegas. I can buy this book. Listen to it and you'll hear it. It was a magical time and those I mean, they

really were blown up into a crazy world. It didn't affect me as much. But okay, so what else were you working on? There are desk just I mean that we then then we had like some R and B stuff that didn't Wressell started like doing some R and P things, have one that recorded Orange Juice Jones the Rain, so you and him, um and then it kind of and then it just kind of got weird, like you know, the PCs they were gonna make a second you know,

Rick and they started to have their thing. We're got funny with the money, as I like to say, and just Rick the movie it just kind of fell apart, you know. Okay, so it fell apart. That's when you go to work at A and M and they go to Capital to Capital, they move out here, right, but they name check you on the record. You are you involved at all? Just you know what rhymes of orange Okay, So going back to the story, you're at A and M Now you moved to California, to California. I moved

to California in nine. Okay, Suddenly it was Death American and it was all rock instead of hip hop. Right. The first was Slayer, Right, I think it was Slayer, and then the Crows, a band called Wilf Spain. Maybe. Yeah, it was much more rock. What does that have to say about you know, rude Rick, He's I think he was really enamored with l A. He loved it. We came out, he'd been out here before, like for business

or something. And then we came out in eighty six to do this um soundtrack to Not the One Andrew McCarthy and and Downey Reddy Stenella's book Less Than Zero. So we camped out for about a six weeks at the Montreal and we made a bunch of records during the course of that, and then I think he was really enamored with it. I think also he was making Slayer and making Dance Egg he started making he started really this really was from the island, more of a

rock kind of guy. I think he started making those records and the seeing he was incredible. I don't know when you were here, right, you know, walking up and down Sunset handing out flyers. It was I mean, it was incredible. I think he just loved it. You know, he had a porno actress for a girlfriend. You know. It was just he was just loving it. He loved the California lifestyle, he loved driving. I think it reminded him of um Long Island, which is what this is. Really,

It's right, that's why. Actually it's a giant it's it's a suburb. It's like Sunset Boulevard is like Sunrise Highway, Long Island. It's the same difference. It's just many more whatever. You keep going and you hit little neighborhoods um So I think he was enamored with it and hearing K and NC was happening, so getting to hear the record he was making on the radio at a Long Beach, so I think he was he was just completely enamored

with it. He loved it. Okay, so you come out here in eighty nine to help, but with the label, how do you suddenly become a producer? You know, I would we're working on the records back in the day, you know, I was working on the records with him, and I would always go to the studio UM and hung. You know, you want to be something, you just call yourself that boh okay. So when you were out here with Rick and eight nine, how many people were working

for Deaf American? Uh? Just me and Rick. And then it became that I think he hired We distributed through Geffen and they hired Mark Theda, you know Mark. I think Marked was the first hiring. And then maybe another guy from a guy who used to work Kane A. C To help with the radio stuff. And that was like I had an office. UM, we had an off as across the Geffen. There's a pizza place on top of Corey Street that was our office. So I had an office there. Rick never came into the office and

he basically worked out of the house. So there maybe three to three people for a long time. Then it kind of grew while then started getting bigger as more so how long did you work with UM? Twelve thirteen years? So how did it end? I don't know if it's over. I guess it's I mean, I think he just keeps he kept moving the label. I think he kind of got less. He started becoming more of a superstar producer.

It's and I don't blame him, you know, it's much more fun to make a record with Platinum Max and and Mick Jagger and things like that, you know, And I think kind of the label stuff wasn't as important to him. And he just kept kept moving and it kept getting smaller and smaller. And then you will you do your own things or your wake up wake up one days the Holy ship. There's no company left. No.

I was doing other stuff. I was like, Um, I started working on movies Zoolander, there was the first movie, or around with two thousand, two thousand one. Um, I did a few record I did a couple records other people. Um, you know this is okay. So if the record you produced, what are some of the acts you produced other than the Crows Jayhawks signed them to the label. A band called Freewheelers the time of the label, the record with Miriam McKee. Um uh, girl, Tiff Merritt, you know of

then a bunch of English bands. It's a band called Reef did never really happened to have primal scream? Um, coolest shaker, Um, my favorite is this guy Dan pen you know he is of did a record in ninety three or four at Muscle Shoals with the Muscles rhythm section, and they were probably in my age. I thought they were old man, you know, they're probably the early fifties

at the time. And that was probably that's that's that was one of the things that it was one of the best experience and one of the worst experiences that it kind of ruined me, you know, I mean it's like, Wow, these guys are great, and then I do this record

for two weeks down and Muscle shoulds. These guys who were like amazingly listened to each other that you know that And then and I go back, who was It was Barry Beckett, David Hood, It was Hood and Roger Roger Um uh, Jimmy Johnson guitar, Reggie Young spooner who

was amazing. Yeah, that was like the core group. Uh. And then we cut do Right Women, which is one of the most amazing songs I've ever We had eleven people playing live at one time were like he Damn's playing acous guitar and singing, and two guitar players, had the bass drums, had a grand piano, electric piano and an organ all one thing, and it's just it's have you ever heard it? But it's the slowest, funkiest even though it's dead slow, it's just still a groove there.

You can hear the air and it's like and it's the only it's the only time I cried. I'm talking about now I might cry again. It's the only time I cried at work and how to leave the room. I was like, this is just too much because it's like these guys all came up together. They were telling me the stories like they were teenagers. They didn't know, they didn't know what a world exis, didn't making this

greatest music in the world. Wilson Pickett, reather Franklin, and they all come back together to serve this guy Dan, who was kind of like the arbor of cool. He was a James Dean. He's the first guy to have a song recorded by another round can we twitter? He recorded like a song. He's just like, he's so badass and he's the greatest. That's I love him. If you ever get a chance to meet him, he's wonderful. But

um would they give you any respect? It's funny because um, so I get down there, and uh, I got Joe John Yqwen. So Joe my Cowen sends me down. He's working at Sire at the time. He signs Dan. I'm gonna signed Dan. I'm gonna We're gonna do this one off. You go meet him. He lives in Nashville. I'm like, happy to I got to Nashville. I go meet to Anne. How you doing great? I just finished the second Crows record.

We do a little bit of like little dance kind of he has he's great alt text, voice of the theater, speakers in the basement, incredible. He's like, he's like, well, he plays me what he's been doing, and he plays me some demos. Yeah, I don't know. I'm Mackie got a mat Like everybody's like, it's so funny down there. He wants to just keep moving forward, you know, even though and when it was the easiest thing. So you play me a couple of cuts. I'm like, oh, he's

a good I said, you know. They go, well, yeah, I gotta play Okay, what have you been doing? So I played him I just finished second Crows record. I played a couple of songs and I play of, um, what's the one my devil My Angel Thorn on my Side. That's the best song on the record. So I planned that because I like, this is a good sounding at least a good more devil my Angel. What the hell is this guy talking about? I'm like, I don't know. He goes, he goes, he goes, that's I played some

other thing goes. That's probably the best cut you play me, But I just don't know. This is ugly music, man, Like I played him like remedies, Like this is just ugly music. What else you got? I finished the first Jayhawks record. I played the song called Crowded in the Wings, which is like a soul ballad like Crank. You know, it's like it's got the thing, beautiful melody, beautiful story about it, you know, Crowded in the wing, Crowded in

the wing, What the hell does that mean? I'm like, Oh, the guy who's been standing on the side of the stage all his life, you know, waiting to get it shot. Yeah, I guess, but I don't understand this crowded in the Wing, like he just kind of like this is going nowhere. He's got a fifty seven Chevy Nomad station way again, and like I'm gonna work at up Dan about fifteen years now. It's nothing's happening. You can tell. I'm like, all right, we have a nice time. I go Damn,

it's gonna be great. Your record is gonna be great. Um, so thanks for seeing me. You can't I can't imagine what it's been a thrill um. I'm really excited to go to Muscle Souls tomorrow, and I'm like, I'll see you, I'll see I'll see you down the road sometimes. What do you mean going to most shoals? I said, Dan, I don't get to this part of the world very often. If I'm three hours from Muscle Souls, I'm going, right, you know I'm going. He goes, all right, did you

ever read Garlics book Sweet Soul Music. It's a must. But there's a whole Muscle Soult thing. He goes, all I'll tell you what do you come here? You drive, but we take my Cadillac. We'll go to Muscle Souls together. Like sounds good to me, Bob. So it's like basically it's like, uh, Chico and the Man, We're gonna go this road trip. You know. It's like green bodn't seeing green Book, but imagine like green books. So I got him next to me and I start pumping him from

information even though I know the answers. So how did you write this one? And he's like telling me the story. You're like, oh, that's great, you know. And by the time we hit the gas station for the first refill, we stopped and he gets an RC coal and peanuts he hands to me. He puts the peanuts in the colt, like, because I don't know what about peanuts and co col this is going to have a treat sensation with drinking Coca cola and peanuts. And he's telling me the stories.

We pull them to Florence, which is it's Florence Muscial Souls and Sheffield. We pull them through the first town and there was a on the main drag. There was a drug store which they used to write all the songs that this guy docks somebody or whatever. I'm like, I was at the drugs. He's like, yeah, that's a drug store. I wrote more songs. And then I want to know we're doing this And we finally get to we get to Fame Fame Studios and Dan, what are

you doing here? As it going? Oh? Well, you know what, thinking about maybe cutting a record, like, who's your friend, Oh, George Rakolakas you know you know that black he's got that Black crows Like, oh yeah, good record? Here he goes, yeah, because so you're gonna cut Here's like we haven't decided yet, you know, like he's at it all cool again, and we had a must the whole sound same thing. We drive back and then I started. Then after I could start,

he tells about the the echo chamber. He starts talking about. Then you know, we're inside baseball and so you know, I'm getting all the information I dropped on his house. I said, Dan, this is the greatest day of my life. Thank you so much. I can go. You know, nothing else happens to me now I've lived it. Good luck with the record. It's gonna be great. He's like, well, George, if you can get down there on April. You know we're gonna start April seven, and if you can get

down there, we'll do the record. You know. So I've said, how of course I'm gonna be there. We did the record like in two weeks. Everything was pretty much live. He was he wanted to do all the vocals again. But it just didn't work. He's like he he everybody wanted to please him so bad. They all were playing to him. We cut the record pretty fast. We mixed it and um and then he how I knew we respected He's that he mastered it in Nashville. He's like, George,

I think I might have made a mistake. I'm like, what do you mean. He goes, I'm gonna send it to you. Send him the record and it was all squished and like, you have to hear it. I think you'll like it. It's called right, it's very open. There's a lot of dynamics, so it's a it's a very interesting it's an older it's not a young person's record. You know. I said, yeah, I think they stuck the life out of the record. Dan. He goes, I said, why don't you come out here. We'll do it out here.

So we drove. He drove out here, We cut it here, and then it was you know, he he was happy, and I remember reading saying that he was just he felt that he could perform. He knew that everything was really taken care of in the control room. That's how I was. I was able to ease his mind I mean, I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna tell them kind of what the player had to play. I tried to in

the beginning we were cutting something. I'm like, okay, great, so listen, why don't you uh if he catches that thing, like, George, you're gonna give me what you want. You gotta learn the song a minute, him a minute. I'm like, all right, cool, cool, cool. And this is engineer called Johnny Sandlin, who was the drummers. He was a drummer in the Hourglass. Were all brothers. And he's he's almost twice the size of me, drinking uh a Mason joff of die Pepsi's drinking that all day.

And so we cut one thing and and David made a mistake on the basis and I'm talking to okay, cool, all right, second thing, and he's sitting next to me, go alright, great, so we can do a second chorus on the turnaround in and out okay and then boom baba, dude down back in, stay in and then out for the thing. Okay, cool, let's do it. I turned you know, he goes hear this. I'm sorry, George, I really wasn't

paying attention. What was that It's the first day and I'm like, I'm like, look, man, I'm from New York. I eat fast, like I do it all fast, you know, like like I gotta slow it down. So I just kind of I had to like take the heat off. And then I was also a younger kid, you know, like so and then once I just kind of let it happen. You know, there's a couple of happy accidents. There's it's just great. And like I said, and then when we cut, like we cut two right, how to

leave the thing? I came back in and like, well, what any think of that? When I said, you guys can play that all day and I'll sit here and listen to it. You know, So that one was better than the other. It was like a matter of just like catching the other thing. Was that kind of Also, Hey, Jimmy,

has it got nice to meet you. He's got like a Scheckter guitar and a roll in cor like these kind of eighties and things like and then I see this, okay, like what's the that's my greatge that's I played only reason like does it tun not? Because like yeah, I said,

should we try to use it? He goes, well, I could try, you know, like so like getting into the kind of like get back to the more you know what, more organic whatever reason, you know, kind of thing where the more old school he kind of things, getting the telecaster out, getting defender amps out. You know that that was like the first day of kind of like pushing it in that direction. And it was just this was easy. Now did day have like the final product? Loved it?

You know, I think he really enjoyed it, but ultimately the record didn't. It wasn't was it supposed to. It wasn't supposed to be a I think it was supposed to be like a cachet thing, and he was supposed to get out there, and you know, he went out and played some shows. He goes him Spooner play every now and then if you have you should catch it. They do like a two man thing. And then a project like that. How much is it cost to make? I maybe the whole thing was like fifteen rands of time.

It really made. But I don't know what they paid him. I don't I don't even know what I got paid, to be honest. You know, And you worked with Tom Petty, work with Tom, so Rick got hired to do Tom's record. Well we didn't get hired. They were talking about it was the development stage, and he owed a record to he owe the greatest hits and a new song to Universal, which maybe in the fire and not who knows, but I think they kept all their tapes in a different place.

But he's like, I have to go see Tom petty, you gotta come with me kind of a thing because he was thinking a little bit scared to be Tom Teddy. It's fine, so rick Um, He's like, I really love food Move Fever. Like you know, Tom has six seven records before with this band, the Heart rerecord. He goes, I don't care, Like, well, I think you should listen to I'm not gonna listen to him. I mean again, knew nothing of Tom's work. It's like, I love he

loved food Moing Fever. We played that endlessly in the car constantly. I like Full Moon Fever. I bet Tom likes Full Moon Fever two. So like, I don't know, man, you better you did listen to some other stuff. So he took me out to the valley and see Tom. We go to his house and he was just the coolest from from the even meet him any time, the greatest from the get go, and um, you know I was.

I was kind of took a little while too, but then you know, it's kind of a I've always been a little bit of a wise a and he loved it. You know, he's he had a great sense of humor and he was so generous. So yeah, I worked with Well, so Rick's going in, how do you end up doing the record? Well, I wanted to do a record, couple down, a couple of records down the road. Rick goes in and I'm I'm basically I'm his Ed McMahon. I'm with

him the whole time. You know, they go every time they go to the studio and there, you know, um, there's a song called Girl and LSD that I make that I kind of kind of nudgement to writing, Like he started this thing like, oh you should just finish that one, keep going, keep going. Um, and so I'm just around, you know. And then when they started they took they made it a lie of thing, the greatest hits whatever that kind of and they start it's gonna be a solo record, and they do most of it

in my Campbell's house. They cut a couple of things, a cello whatever, um, and then I got like I was doing another record for a minute, so I had like or I was working on something else, so I would get there a little later. And they started always putting the song wild Flowers on wild Flowers every time I pull in. That was whooping me up. And I'm like, what why are you guys always like and they were kind of punking me like they were just two it

so they knew. I was like, why isn't this one finished? This is done, like, you know, well maybe we should add you know, you know that I'd be out there playing a click clock thing or I played something on it, you know, but um so then yeah, so I stayed close to Tom and uh and then he called because they did this box set. The box set. Yeah, so he called me. He's like, we gotta do this thing, and you know, doing this box set when you go through my archives and finished what's not you know, finished

a few things, clean up a few things. And that's when I really bonded with him. And then um, he was just I think they made another record and he was just sitting around and Tony's manager dem was like, go go up and see Tom, Like what's going on? He goes, he should be making a record. I'm like okay. He's like, let's just go out and see Tom. You can't tell me. So I would go out to Malibu and visit with him, and then you play me, like what have you been doing? He's got a couple of songs,

like play me this one? He played me the last DJ the song. I'm like, oh, that's great, and they're gonna record. He goes, yeah, I'll get to it whatever I said. Well, and I was obsessed with Boom and Fever as well. It's like, how did you do those things with Jeff? I remember? You tell me? And Mike was there like like, well, we would do two guys who play the guitar. Then we'd switched guitars, move around, and we'd stack them and like why don't we try to do that with this one? And then that's that

was we were off and running. That's what it became. Them teaching me how they made the record became making the record. Okay, so then how do you switch board of movies? Um? So, being out here, all my friends are directors mostly now bands break up, you know, it's like one guy wants to be a chef. This guy you know, this band breaks up. They hate each other. And Ben Stiller, who I knew just from being in kind of you know out here in l A. He's like,

I'm making this movie, you should do music. Like what does that even mean? He goes, You'll figure it out. I'm like, all right, so I just you hired me to do the music for this movie zoo Lander. I had no idea what I was doing. And it was a comedy. I want to make it funny. And we

put some song and he loved it. We had a great men The first thing they had this remember zoo Lander, they have the walk off and so they're an editorial and I send them beat It by Michael Jackson because it's funny and it's you know, it's referenced whatever and ever. This is great, so great, thanks, this is great, keep going, you know whatever. And I got a call from the studio did you get them beat It? And like yeah, why? He goes, do you know what? I go no idea.

Why it's gonna be expensive? Like, well you can't have blah blah blah, said is it funny? You know? I'm like, well, then it's worth x amount of whatever it is. If it's funny, it's funny, you know, it's it's worth it, right, And like I'm like, well, if you think it's a problem, maybe you guys, you know, maybe I'll tell Ben you guys think it. Oh no, no, it's fine, it's fine,

just don't do it again. And then the next thing there was like was call me like you know that just completely stuff and that I thought would make us laugh and have fun, you know, And that was that was the beginning of it. And I've worked on all his movies since. Okay, so what's your we look like these days? I who knows, you know, Like like right now, I'm working on a Nike commercial and it's changed directions

eight times. You know. I've been in the studio working on pieces this and it's a minute spot and who knows what's going to be um um. I'm working on a couple of TV shows that are interesting. It's a little remote because they're shooting in Canada. A lot of it's done in posts. So I'll start seeing it. Excuse me, I've seen a few episodes. Is I'll get up, have breakfast and which way for the phone calls? You know?

I start making calls or whatever. Is okay, So if you're working on a Nike commercial, what exactly are you doing creating the music for this spot? Okay? So they're not licensing something, so you're creating it from scratch. How do you do that? Um? Well, it's again this things. This is kind of boring, but it became It was supposed to be one thing in it turns of another. It supposed to be a girl drummer playing live and this guy called the v digs, who is um so okay,

so the video has people playing in it. That was the idea. They're gonna shoot. They're gonna shoot this girl drummer and this guy kind of it's gonna be a conversation between the drums and the and the vocalist and with with clips from sports. It's the fourth of July spot. And then it just kept changing until like, all right, we're gonna use her, but we're not. We're gonna do it live, but we're not gonna do that. We want we do want music. We don't want to drum beat.

There's like, well, we'll just do a breakbeat and we'll do something. So it's just they really put it through the okay, though they have money, that's one thing, unlike music, but they don't want to pay and nobody wants to pay anything. That's other thing. It's it's so funny as I am not complaining, but I make much less on a movie now than I did when I first started

um and nobody wants to pay for anything. And what happened was in order to get these movies made, this is the first thing they do is they slice the music budget and then it's like, we'll figure it out. And then you get to the part we're supposed to figure it out, it's like we want led zeppelind Well guess what you you you you threw that away when you you know, kind of a thing. So it's that's the one thing that's that's that's a kind of a

drag is talking about like talking about money. It's boring. It's just sport. It's like, we want this, but we can't afford it. Every every conversation I get is hey man, can you working to say? We really don't have any It's like that's that's every no matter what it is, come make my record. I don't have any money to do this. I don't have money, so it's just what do you think accounts for that. I think people don't value music at the end of the day. I think

it's been devalued. Well, let's say you're you're working on a movie. They just figure they can get it from somewhere else or something else is good or what. It depends. That's why I like to work with a good like events. Eventually, if you stand your ground, you'll get what you know, you'll get you want. And that's not to say that I haven't worked on small movies with but we still wind up getting it. We get the other people to comitulate,

you know. You say, hey, this is a special kind of movie, and everybody's doing it for this, you know, So that's all we have, you know. So it's just different levels of it. Okay, So you say, okay, you wake up, you're receiving phone calls, You're making phone calls. Are you working it? Working in looking for gigs? I don't really do that. Okay, So let's say your phone call, let's just say the Nike commercial. So you've got a certain number of calls from that. Will your other calls

be about the Nike commercial? Or there are certain people you check in with it on a regular basis. My friends and people, you know, like people that are in music or film. People will talk talk every day, but like the any there's a movie being finished now, this Joker movie that Todd Phillips directed, I'll go to the I'll go after this. I'll probably go to the sounds that they started mixing. So I'll go and listen to what they're doing. And but you didn't work on it,

yeah you did. Think it's been along, it's been in progress. You know, it's went out the end. So the stuff has been the score has been recorded, the music has been picked. It's just a matter of mixing it for the final for you know, they do it in reels, you know, they makes it really so I'll go check that out. Um I just got another episode of the TV show. I'll watch that and see what's in there, what they need. Um uh no, I do know the

No Bound Back movie. We're doing a soundtrack. We're doing a four you got divorce ones, right, you'll love this one. The new one is it's brutal. I'm not to and I had to leave the it was like it's incredible, it's really This new one is great. Um So we're doing a record for that. We're also doing ahead of it. We're doing a forty five vinyl like special. Brandy Newman did the score. That was amazing working with Randy Newman. UM, So I'll make a call about that. It's got the

mastering from that, I'll checking on the artwork. UM. Let me ask you to what degree are you busy with work in a regular week. It's always something, you know. I'm trying to say. It's seven o'clock at night, eight o'clock at night, you're parking yourself in front of HBO, or you still work. I'm watching The Eleventh Hour with Brian Williams, having dinner in my underwear out of a bowl. Probably I don't go as now as much, that's sure, and and just I'll be I'll maybe listen to music

after I've had the time. Okay, are you not going out as much because there's not as much to hear or because you think it's a function of your age where you are little? Both? I think, I mean, how much is I don't know if there's much of a scene right now. I don't think there is either. But you know, I discussed this with a lot of people okay, so you're heavily into the political thing. It's it's it's weird. It's kind of ruined my life. It's all t I

mean totally, it's it's it's you know. I just remember, like just after Trump got elected, I was with you know, people who run the live business. They don't want to talk about music. They wanted to talk about politics. It'sact I don't even care about. It's just it's just so whatever, he's terrible. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, I'm sure all you listening to Sneak easterile so we're not again. But it's just it's this thing you can't turn away from.

It's worse than a car wreck. You know. It's funny. I went, I went especially. I made a record in England during the election, specifically want to be out of the country. I voted earlier. I was about I went to bed over there Hillary Clinton's head great, no problem. I get up in the middle night to go to the bathroom. I'm like, it's gonna check in. You know. It's like four in the morning now and five in the morning there, and I see it. I'm like, this is not good. You know, It's like, oh, God, and

I'm like, well, how bad it be? And it's worse, and I think anybody thought, and you wake up every morning it's like what do this asshole say? Oh? God? And now you're addicted to it and I don't know if it's making me feel better or worse, but like if I do love, I love Nicole Wallace, I love Chris Matthews, you know, and I love Brian That. Those are probably three shows I want or listen listen to. No, it's too it's I don't. It's too exhausting. I don't

know what the hell she's talking about. It takes too longer to get to the point, you know. I love I love all the reports like it's so funny. I love all the reporters. Now I love Ashley Parker a big crush. Uh uh, Casey, you know what's the case? All the I just it's okay, do you check out the competition. I'll watch Fox for a few minutes and then I'm just like, I feel like you're taking crazy pills,

you know. I mean, it's just Hannay's evil. I think it just doesn't like And I started thinking like, well, maybe am I wrong? Am I can No? No, no, no, I waxed away. I check in on the satellite. You know, I'm serious. You can listen to all those stations on a regular basis. Is there any hope for music impacting the political scene? I don't think so, then why not? I just don't think people are gonna rally behind the

song on the way they used to do. Do you mean no, I don't, but I have many Differently, when we went through the Iraq War, music had a chance. I think the main problem now, which people this is, you know, there's a lot of stuff in the entertainment business that people in it I don't want to admit. Okay, It's like, if you look at the chart, they say how big. This first came up to with Randy Phillips was running a g and he was going on about jay z uh you know, New York state of mind.

You know what I said, that doesn't mean ship in l A, you know. And then they're not even playing it. So now you have the I don't want to even judge these records, but the biggest records they don't have the mind share of the sixties or the MTV era, So unless and the type of music they're making is not universal. I mean, this is what I find fascinating. The last album wasn't that good, But the only person with universality was Adell. Okay, but no one else is

making those records. This is a big leg Why did somebody else go there? She'd be on you know, she'd be on the cabin and she'd be on those kind of if we had variety shows, she'd be like, it'll be one of those things, and everybody was Your mother would see it, your grandmother and say, you'd see it. It's I think there's the the part of everything being just poured out. Now there's no focus, you know, so it's hard to break through. I guess to what did

we are you watching other than for work? To what you're watching? Television movies? So the HBO stuff, Game of Thrones, you know, the euphoria. Not really loved Saul, Better Call Saul right fast? I love it. I like, I would rather watch Better Call saulve than Breaking Bad. It's a slower burner. It's like a real weird it's like a weird energy and and Mike's great. I mean, all the

all the perfulent people are really interesting. Um. Yeah, I'm watching some TV you know that not my wife likes Maizel. I haven't really sat down with that. First season was better, but there's an episode in the cat Skills in the second that's fantastic. Um Uh, you know we have every channel. We have HBO, Netflix, Just to be clear, because I used to believe. I remember I was reading the Only Times once and it was some you know, Live aid or something, and the critic they said, I don't have

that channel. So you know, this is your business. So I made a big deal about always having every channel. And you know, so you have the Amazon, you have everything. Someone says Hulu, Okay, I had a free subscription to watch, to show whatever. But it's almost like an insult. It's not the ten dollars a month, but it's like it's like death by Ducks. I don't have Spotify. I have a family plan. I think the I think the iPhone thing, the Apple whatever, the Apple Music, I think it's terrible.

The interface is just okay, just a little. Why do you think Apple Music is terrible? I don't understand. Do I own this? Am I listening to it? Am I looking for? Is it a radio? I couldn't agree more. I mean, this is this is this is where they left. I mean, I have all the services. And the interesting thing about Amazon is two things. One you can use Alex on your phone and too. They say they create the playlist on the fly. However, I don't find there

are too many revelations there. These are I like for the high quality. Okay, these are early. They keep changing the high quality name, but it's HQ. If you have title, they're using that new Uh you know what is it? The new high level m Q and q A. Ostening depends. Okay, So I have these really good gentle x that they sent me. I mean, I get the big rig there too that I can run via Sonos. You're you're listening at home. But if I'm listening at home, if I'm listening,

I don't do a lot of hiking. Okay at night and I'm listening on my I don't want to give anything away because now I'll be killed. But where I normally hiked the about fifteen years ago, we were talking, we knew the rangers, and he ever any crime here and he goes just boyfriend and girlfriend once and where I am listen every case. It's really weird because occasionally when it's really fucking hot, like over a hundred degrees.

I've had a couple of experiences with a homeless people all right, start climbing up and they're on the trail, and it's like this is weird. Okay, but but that's when I listen. Okay, I listened sendaiserst never gonna listen to beats. I had a pair of Bluetooth sand Heisers. It also be the magnets went out and I just threw them away. I had for like six years. But the Bluetooth sound is just not as good. Yeah, I

heard these um ribbon headphones someone's making. Okay, that's for the home though, Yeah, I mean for the home I got. They just updated them. But I have the Senderiser HD eight hundreds, which you know they said we're the best. I've got some odd disease which having a unique sound. I got two pairs of those. I think those are great. I mean what I listened to, it's it's I mean, I have got an A D system. I got some old j b L. I haven't an A D integrated.

I got the old j b L S two, but I got another set of speakers because keep it honest. But when I listened to most I have this like audio engine, Bluetooth player and just you know, I just take a little take a little j B L flip whatever. It's just it's odd, you know, because I don't want to try not listen on the puter, at least listen off the computer. But most people just I almost brought those audio engranes. How are they cool? It looks cool,

it sounds good, it's good, it sounds pretty solid. You know, how about how how expensive of the ones who watch your bucks? I don't know. So it was a gift, I think. And then uh and I'll just you know, I'll be in the shower, turn on whatever. And I like. I like the convenience of this. I think I don't think people know what a good record sounds like anymore. So he's pointing to the phone from the phone, but I don't think people know what a good record really

sounds like anymore. It doesn't I don't thin get that matters it. I don't think it's you wouldn't know. And if you did, if you had a really good like say Dampen record, if you listen to Dampai record at home and you're teenager, you keep reaching for the volume button and down wait because it has dynamics, you know, nothing really, and where are you on the vinyl thing? I got a bunch of it, I know, listen to it,

to be honest, you know, I got it. I got all my vinyl, and I got a couple of turntables. They're right there. I rarely listened to it. But the reason you're bringing up, you know, I don't I think unless you were cutting logue, it makes no sense to me. But if it was an analog original master, but I remember a c d C the original c D which was pretty good, and the second CD on Epic really good,

and I got a lot of power. You know, you can't turn it up halfway and if you creep cranking the c D your ears bleed, but you crate the vinal you can feel it like the show. But I mean, I'm really I think it's like the whole final thing is like Civil War reenactment. I don't get it whatsoever. Well, they said c D are back. Did you see that

they take a censer back. It's like really crazy because uh, you know, I've gotten rid of a you know, I had you know, a ten thousand of d C d s. A lot of them were you know, CD singles that never made it. But I have probably two or three thousand CDs left, and yeah, so do you. I mean the vinals worth something. The c ds you keep owning them or you just throw them away, you know, I have.

I haven't bought one in a long time. But I think that's also why I'm not as connected it sounds, but not as it sounds important to me these new things that come down the pike, because I don't really have the same relationship. You know, I'm not holding in my hand. I'm not reading about it. I'm not I'm not well. The difference was when we had to buy it and I don't want to. You know, the future

is here. It's like those guys in Nashville is that you couldn't afford everything, and if you bought it, you played it to death. Man. That's true. Whereas now you know, i'll hear something he goes, oh, you know, that's kind of good, But unless it's revelatory, I'm onto the next thing. Yeah. As like I said, they only have you don't have. You don't have a tactile relationship with it, so it's

not it's not as important, you know. But as I say, I'm dealing with some of this now, you know, trying to get rid of some stuff to to move to another location. And on one hand, I could throw out everything. You're of that age. I just wish everything was virtual. It's like, okay, the DVD the DVDs you haven't watched, so that's plex plex. You can load stuff off the plex. What's les. I got a friend I want his name, is obsessed with plex. It's um, it's a service. It's

like your own. When you talking about a home only, are you talking about the cloud? It's home only? But yeah, I know it's it's it's it's your own server. Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean there's a number of companies wherever you wanted. So he's at about ten tho movies on there. He's just Adam and Costello, shorts, Laurel and Hardy, uh you know, uh, some buddies. You know. That's the problem I have. And I don't know. I don't know what would be like a teenager risk you have. I have

no time. It's like I used to enjoy alphabetizing my albums whatever, and it's like, you know the amount of time you never I'm busy seven. I'm not complaining about it, but I just wanted to be able to on demand, okay, because like you know, I'm sitting there with like twenty DVDs sub documentaries and I say, okay, well I can only play this at because otherwise computers don't have a DVD player. And I know the problem is they go from service to service. If I knew they were a

hundred percent available, I would toss something. But then of course there's an other thing. Well how many years have I owned this and not watched it? I mean, Jim Garrett know he blew everything out, which I can't imagine, because you know there's certain ship that is never going to hit the services. But the thing you learned, like when this thing with the Universal fire, you don't have a hard copy of something something some day maybe gone, you know, may not be may not exist anymore. What

what did we learn during the Napster era? Somebody it's like eBay when it's occasionally and I'm afraid of throwing out and somebody said, you go on eBay. Everything you're looking for somebody is selling it. And the other thing what we know in the fire, which is a tragedy. Those are all the masters. The music itself is never gonna disappear. How many steps from the real thing is something else? That's true? Oh yeah, But but just making records for example, Now, so I make a record and

I use this, I'm on pro Tools eleven. We're up to now. But say I made a record on protal six. It's a fucking hassle get that drive or you gotta drive. It's a different It's not a FireWire, it's a thunderbolt. It's it's like I've been going through that recently myself, because yeah, it's like, how may we're freaking a daters. I have to get well, you know, it's like I wanted to connect Thunderbolt two and Thunderbolt three hard drives. You gotta buy two connectors, and I end up being

on the phone, which you don't. I always think that there was a problem, which I didn't expect whatsoever. And then my girlfriend's got a FireWire drive Thunderbolt to computer and wants to get into a hard drive. But in order to transfer from one hard drive to another, how many adapters you need? It's just crazy, that's the thing. At least with a master tape it's you always have a tape machine. You can always clean the head and put it on and it will play a thing. I'm

not saying that it's not a tragedy. We shouldn't keep the masters. What I'm saying is the music is not going to disappear. Well, we can sit here and bs about all these topics, but before we start, I want to hear about your things. So I saw I didn't ever knew you played at all when I saw you on this picture. You're playing with dway, So is your thing? Are you failed? Is that what it was? We say we were like a singer songwriter. No no, no, no, I'm older than you. Okay. So in the early sixties

there was always the folks scene. Okay, everybody had a ninline guitar in the house. You took lessons from somebody in the neighborhoods he can say, you know the the not even that toplicated d whatever, you know whatever. And then the Beatles hit, Beatles hit. Everybody got an electric guitar, I mean everybody. So I had a cheap, no name electric guitar, didn't have an amp for like a year. My father found an ad in the paper. He bought a Gibson to Bam for like twenty dollars. If I

only had that amp today exactly. So the way I tell the story, because you started laying in bands and you start to get up tight because they say, okay, I'm gonna do this, we do that. Then I was at my friend's house, who was really talented, because now we're gonna change key, and I said I'm out, okay, But then I got a Gibson s J. Uh. You know, you went to Manny's whatever, and it would like you go there with the money in your pocket and then

you know they want to sell it instantly. I saved this money all summer, but I ended up going to you know, Manny's and cmatch. But this guy to this place way downtown Silver and Horland, and I got this Gibson s J. Really sounded good. The only problem with my mother put in the fucking crawl space and it has some uh what mold on it, and the people first the people give them. Of course it's a seventy

or sixty. Yeah, I know, I knew some people gives them, but then those people gives them with somebody trouble, they're not there anymore and it wasn't a priority. Okay, but I played that like the beginning of college, just for on. Then I never played again. So no, no, no, no, I never had a dream. Well, the law school thing was a different thing. So I went to college very different from you, and that I just knew I had

to go to college. I didn't want to study any of these particular subjects, okay, And I went and exactly and I went to the wrong school because of very conservative academically. But there were good things as Middlebury College and Vermont. This is a dark pre internet, you know, one fuzzy TV station. I went from seventy seventy four.

But the people were prep school people such that I could I learned what real rich people were, early rich people then and how they because I grew up in the melting Pets, you know, suburbs, I never knew anybody like that. And I was the guy who had the most records, okay, by far, I would live to read Rolling Stone. Oh yeah, that would be a big thing, because you know, I remember first they would all fit on a shelf in one of the rooms we had. The shelf was bound, you know, but oh yeah, I

mean I had more records anybody on campus. You know, by when you're in college. By time you're in college, how many hundreds of records is that? But I either wanted to like right for Rolling Stone, or be a professional skier. Okay, so I went to professional skier route, and I only went to law school. I signed up for the l s A T when I was in college and my friends came to my front to I said, we're going to Montreal. You're not going to take that test.

And I said, you're right, And I didn't take it. But then I was in l A and I broke my leg before the ski season. Professional skier though Sean Claude at the time. First I just wanted to go skiing the most guaranteed snows, little Cottonwood Can in Utah, which was out in snowboard. So I went there. Little did I know that was the epicenter of freestyle skiing. This was in the renegade days, supposed to being in the Olympics. So I that up skiing with all those people.

I mean, you know, the world champion, all those people. The next year, Okay, I'm gonna do that. What I did not realize because I could ski better than the you know, on an everyday basis in the world champion, the people who are true athletes. This is really the golfers, among other things. They turn it up when the pressure is on, and the amateur you freeze a little bit. And then I said, it's gonna take me like two years to get past this. Got the world's worst case

of mononucleosis. And so I started to go to law school. Hated it. Southwestern and Los Angeles fully accredited, but not Harvard. So I was gonna drop out to go skiing. It happened to be until two thousand eleven and twelfth, the worst year you can look. They the worst year in the history of snow in Utah. So I called my buddies, they're leaving. Okay, well you're leaving, you know, for Christmas. That's unheard of. And then I fell in with some girl.

That was my first real relationship. I never wanted to practice law, and if I went to law school for three years, I'm gona take the goddamn bar. So I took the bar. This is okay. So because I spent a couple of years in Utah in the bar, passage rate when I took was incredibly low, like twenty eight percent in New York. The worst California is the hardest. So I decided that, oh yeah, that was happening while I was there. So, um, in any event, you take the because I said, I gotta pass the bar. I

went to law school. You take the bar, and you don't find that you take in July. You don't find out until Thanksgiving. So in the interim, I got a job with the lawyer. I did pass the bar, and I worked a little bit, and then I ended up. I mean, I think I could go on and on, and then I was the only guy I want to be in the music business who was working in the movie business. Now everybody else had dreams of reverse. I was working for a law from the guy ultimately was famous.

He made a certain amount of number of movies, but he was famous for something else. He represented George Foreman with a grill, and he made money, but he was a sole practitioner, so he would literally do everything. I mean, it started off. I don't know if you know your rock history, but Cosa Blanca Records a kid, Okay, so Cosa Blocker Records. There was a California law issue because they were the manager the record label right right, Well

that's not what they called it. But there was a law ironically started with Jefferson Starship where you couldn't be the age in the manner, so we represented people who had songs on the Bad Girls album. So there was a lot to argue about. And then I went to work for an independent movie producer and we put this band Wasp in one of our movies, and I, let's go back in the eighties, making a movie was a

really big deal. Today you can make them. They literally make movies on an iPhone, and I learned not to make movies. For for a million dollars, you could make the movie, and most other people were not. So I worked for this guy, Charles Band. While I was there, the biggest thing we did was well, this isn't the biggest, but Jawnson three D came out with the Universal and we made a storm called an album called Metal Storm in three D. That followed that into the theaters, which

wasn't good. But Charlie called me one night goes what kind of music can be licensed chief that people really addicted? I said metal and then it wasn't in there. And then we had a record with the me Moore's husband's group, because before I got there, Charlie had made a movie called Um Parasite and three D. That was Demean Moore's first movie. But we put this movie. Yes, But after I left, he was more he directs, sometimes produced sometimes and he did he produced re Animator and three D,

which is really kind of a classic. And then when you know, I ended up working for this company, these these guys, it's basically Sanctuary Music. They've changed a couple of times the name and but no, that's the interesting thing. It was not a legal job. It's running the office. We were in a house above the Rainbow on Weatherly that Peter Sellers bought but never lived in because he died. And it was Iron Maiden in Wasp. Don't forget what was the guy's name, Ron Smollen exactly, Rod Smote and

his partner Randy Taylor. Not that Duran Duran one. They could only be in the US ninety days, right right. So I remember we we had a very rich deal with Capitol Records, and we had enough money that I started the video. Okay, the video's budget was fort K. I was in about eighteen K, so I called Capital for the check. And he says, uh, Gary Culpepper says, we only cut checks on Thursdays. You only cut checks

on Thursdays. So you know, I call Odd who's in the Bahamas, and I said, you know what should I do this? Well, this is why we hired you. You know, you call back and go, okay, I'm eighteen in. Either you cut the check or I'll bill you for the eight team. So they cut the check. You know, we had a lot of power, but ultimately I lost my job over a creative issue. Uh. Well, this is the type of thing. I can't believe I'm going on about this, but this is nothing. Okay, you know I was Linda Perry.

I went through some of this. Otherwise I could go on for a whole day. I'm trying not to repeat myself, but um, we have this being lost. They wanted to produce themselves, Okay, they ended up using how come I can see this guy's name suddenly Metal not Metal Blake? Oh no, no, no, that was the other one, the guy who found all the guitars. Now he was living in Sebastany. What party exactly? Good friend of mine. What's Mike Party doing today? He's a member of the oh,

I read that. I read that he sold he sold it to Red One whatever. He sold the orchard. He lives in Vegas. I talked to him last night and get him on the phone right now. He's not up. He's still a vampire. He doesn't get up till any of them he wanted. He wanted to produce the record, and they didn't want. He knew that they hired Varney, they could boss them around. It was a good experience with Varney. Varney was a nice guy. The only problem, well,

the two tracks we cut. One of them was the one that the PMRC cut went down on the animal fuck like a beast. So the problem was he had this engineer. He really didn't know what he was doing. So the mixes were just fucking terrible. So at the time, the A and R guy at the Capital was Carter. Okay, who was what is he these days? He's dead? Okay?

John Carter was famous for right he was writing the He wrote the Lyricture in sze Pepperins ultimately brought Tina Turner back, but that was after So I say, you know, Carter, can I come up and play you this? You know these mixes? So I go up I blame him the mix on a cassette, turns it off in the middle, and he goes, I passed on this band three times. It was signed above me, do whatever the funk you want? Okay,

How am I going to deal with Blackie? Okay? Is the lead Blackie Lawless, who is wasp Because I told him, he said I left part of the story. He would only remix the record if Carter said to Okay, And Carter said that. So I'm figuring out what I'm gonna say. But I get back in my office. Blackie comes back. I knew I love chocolate chip cookies, came with a big bag of Mrs Fields and said, I'll do it whatever.

So we got this guy, Dwayne Baron, who was famous at that point because he had engineered and mixed the Quiet Riot records, and he the engineer, but didn't mix the No More Tears Azzi record. I don't know where he is today, but he now made the record listenable. The problem with bands is they have a vision of what they're gonna do. Okay, so suddenly it's gonna be

a different single. So I said, no, it's got to be this single, okay, And ultimately Rod was in town and he goes, we got we gotta do this, you gotta do that? Goes, well, you know what difference does it make? It? The first album only sells a hundred thousand. That was the stiff, which I had the opposite thing, and I was supposed to fly to UH to the u K. And the Andy Taylor came back and said it's not working out because I was standing in the it really fucked what uh? I wanted a song called

love Machine? Do you know that record? Okay? They wanted to go with something I want to know? But no, I don't need no doctors on that record. No, No, that's later. Do you think of the humble Pie version I was, you know, after the first record, I was done. I want to be something that's that exactly. That's the record, That's what that's all you wanted. No, that's not the one. Okay though that was the first. That was the first thing. Look, but if you go back to that record and go

to love Machine, this is four okay. So the nature of those jobs, I say, I could go on for hours. I'm trying to make it very short just to edify you, is that you can't spend a dollar you're working around the clock and the other thing. You know, it's sort of big. I said, the guys were going to the airport, okay, Andy and Rod and said, you got any got any money? I haven't even go to the airport that need like

they go, you gotta need company money. This well, you know, I like a lot of money in the bank account. He goes, well you should have some money. They whip off four thousand dollars cash and I go, what am I supposed to do with this? And they said put it in your pocket. Good And then you find you need it because nobody has any credit card. Well, we want to rent a skeleton. They require a thousand dollar deposit. Okay,

here's a thousand. So I was you know, I had worked on movies, I you know, worked as a music supervisor, did some other ship. But eventually the money ran out, and then I started the newsletter. When was that you monetize the news letter from Yes, let's okay. What happens is when I would read the stuff. When I went to Middlebury, there was one professor who wrote see stories badly, and when I read my ship, it was like screen time for hitlo. Okay, So I never wrote another thing.

But when you're ten years later, you're working, you get all these bios. The buyers were just horrific. So the bios um I would have to rewrite them. And then I ran out of money and I went to a job counselor and they said, here's you have to write these six essays brag about yourself. And I wrote the six essays and uh, I got back in touch on Let be a writer. So you send stuff to magazines, Go wait a second, this is just like the music business. You got to know the people. So I'm reading Billboard

one night. It's terrible now, but it was terrible. Then in between the Timothy White made it someone Okay, I said this is terrible. I could do a better job than this. So I started the newsletter and I said, I have a target number of people that if they do if they subscribe, I will continue doing it. I was really doing is an advertisement for myself to get into the job. What I did not expect is generally speaking,

only the most successful people subscribe. The heads of all the labels, they could hear something contrary, and at the time it was all tips. I gotta do stuff, not tips about records. Nineties were very bleak. Just no, that's what I was doing. First. It was the full time effort to write it more times to day. I know, it's like you know, but the right the dark ages. Uh, you know, you had to print it, you had to

put it in the envelopes, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. But um, then the year I got very into the Internet because I had a free subscription to a well when it was right right even before that. And then of course we're friendly with Geiger. What we're friendly with at this then because he's you know, he's a big proponent early days adopter. Let's not talk. I mean, I'm good with Geiger and he's great at w M E. But that's a whole different job. But I have some artist direct stock.

How much it? And then did you put into artist direct stock? I want to talk about. Okay, without obviously crashed soon after went public. Uh but when Napster happened, I was I was a lawyer. I knew what was going on, and I was totally Internet savvy. So that's what happened there. But now you know, have to tell me, you know, but how does this news letter generate? Well? At this point. I charge for the newsletter and then email.

It's free, right, But what I found is, and I don't have enough time, and I want to board the audience with how I decided to make it free by being free. I was at the cutting edge of everything. Accidentally. Okay, I had this book. I go to this conference and Aspen first year, they sent an email contact list and it's like, also, did you get an interstant response? Then I had this David Geffen book, The Operator, a weekend before anybody, and I wrote about it, and then I

got the response. And then I had a directory which had some email addresses from my subscriber list. Said it all of a sudden, you're experiencing, you know, virality. Remember Jefferson Holt, who was the manager. He starts email and go, well, it's fine, how did you get it? Well, I got it from Mark Williams. Well, Mark Williams wasn't a subscriber either. So that's when I started experience virality and this result of being free. This was before everybody said give it

away for free. I was hearing from people all over the world and became, you know, an interesting thing. And of course music was a canary in the coal mine for this digital disruption for fifteen years we figured it out. They still think, you know, and then in the movie business they're going to counteract it somehow. But also I grew up in the era where music was everything, and music right now the politics is the thing. But they don't want to they don't want to own that. Well music, music, okay,

whatever it is, it's really about the politics thing. But as far as I'll give you more detail because I want to bore the audience at another time. But I love that you asked me. But we have to. We've come to the end of the feeling we've known. George, thanks so much for being on and tell these great stories. Hope it was boring either. Until next time. This is Bob Left