Dion

peace and serenity or some togetherness. You know, we were just I said, you know, I said, Christmas is the grace that uh changed my life. So I'm gonna write a Christmas song. So I thought, now, what does the blues man do or a rock and roller do when he when he writes a Christmas song? You know that there's a there's a a bragging tradition. You know, I'm from the Bronx. I was like, you know that, like

the Wanderer. You know, it's like a bragging tradition. So I wrote a song about a guy that bought his girlfriend a perfect present and he can't wait for her to open it because he's he can't wait to see the look on her face, you know, he you know, and that happens only once every twenty years. You get the perfect gift. So that's what the song is about. So and then when Joe Bonamasa heard it, he said, Dion, man, you are prolific. You just keep cranking him out. I

want to play on this. So he joined me and we we made a little video and uh and uh. I did the song with a few friends of mine and it was just a lot of fun to do. You know. The second song again, I I just thought, you know, we need something to bring us together, you know, and Christmas is my favorite holiday. I just I don't know something about you know, it's it's a life is about giving, and that's what Christmas is about, you know.

And I try to keep the spirit lady around. It's the spirit of true charity, you know, like just giving with it, uh you know. Uh. So we I put this song together and welcoming Christmas and sharing it with with people, and when I finished it, I just thought of Amy Grant. I've known Amy Grant uh uh since she was nineteen years old. I when I met her when she was nineteen fell in love with a voice. She had this song El Shadai and my Father's Eyes, and so we've been friends all these years. I I

just called her up. I said, Amy, I have a song. And she heard it and she said, Dion, I love this type of thing where you don't plan. It's just in the flow, you know. And she says, yeah, I'll do it. So she smiled through it and knocked it out and just just she made it something sublime. I thought it was good when I finished it, but she really It shows you how limited I am. You know, when when uh, when an artist, any artists, you get

somebody that distinctive like Joe Bonamassa or Amy Grant. They they they just infuse, uh anyway attract that I did with such wonder They make it sublime. So how do you know Joe Bonamassa, Joe, Uh, it's crazy. His manager must live about. He's in walking distance from me. His manager, Roy Weisman. And I was walking one day around the lake and I met Roy Weisman and we became friends. I have a lake in my neighborhood here. It's like a mile and two point too, you know, So we

walk around and uh, we have some great conversations. Uh and uh, he says, Joe is coming into town. And Joe comes over the house, you know, and uh, he's just a a regular guy, likes to pick up my guitars. We like to talk about the blues and the and the history of what we're doing and the roots of it. And we we have a we resonate, you know, with the same artists. A lot of what connects what we're doing, you know, from the thirties and forties, and you know

American roots music and this album. You know, we're in covid era. So how did you actually do the recording? Everybody recorded in their own space, and then you put it together. You know, I put this album together. It was complete. It seemed like the day I finished it, we went and shut down. I think, like somewhere in March, I had this is this is the album, not the Christmas tracks, the album with all original and all these special stars. Absolutely. Yeah, it's called Blues with Friends and

I have I tell you, it's crazy, Bob. I know, we started out talking about the Christmas songs, but I went in I had these fourteen songs that I had accumulated over a few years because I was working on a play and I never went into the studio. But I had some time. I thought, let me go in and cut these things. So I go into the studio. I knocked the fourteen songs out in two days, just me and my guitar. Well, now is this a studio in your house or use a local studio? Would you use? Uh?

A friend of mine has a studio. Right time I say a studio, it's a room in his house. He has a he has all the equipment, high tech equipment. I sat on a folding chat, took my guitar. He says, sing them like you sing them in your house. I took the guitar out, I went through all the I went through about eight songs the first day. Uh. And the second day I came back, I knocked out about six of them. So I started, uh, you know, brought in a bass player, drummer, keyboard, you know rhads. I

love roads. Yeah, I just love that. So so I I built up some tracks and then I had something. I said, Man, these things are great, this is something special. I really felt it was. You know, I know how to write a song, I know how to make a record. But then this started this. This uh something I've I've never experienced before. Again, Joe Bonamassa started it. I think he's the catalyst. I think it's fair to say that.

You know, he gave me the vision for it because he heard blues coming on one of the songs on the Blues with Friends album and he he heard it and he said, Diane, I gotta play on this. He's so, I said, be my guest man. You know, Joe Bonamassa. This guy's mesmerizing, masterful, you know, monster guitarists. I said, yeah, I never knew what he Listen, Bob, this this is

the This is the thing about this. It's like I usually get a guitar player to come into the studio and you go, yeah, give me this, give me that, and he plays, you know, and and he fills the track in. But you when you ask an artist, you don't know what they're hearing, what they're they're very distinctive. It's like they come up with something that's not even on your radar. So he picked he picked up a slide guitar. I mean, you know, he started playing slide

on it, and which I didn't hear. I really didn't hear slide on it. But when he started playing, what I was hearing was almost like a horn section, like you you could hear and his playing. You think you're you're listening to the Apollo Theater band with with headed by Miles Davis and John Coltrane with King Curtis, you know, on the side. But because he's playing this stuff and it's yeah, it's just crazy good. You know, it's fascinating

what he did. So, uh, I'm listening to this thing in my house, I'm thinking, what, uh this this is something really special. I mean, I thought the song was good, just the record I'm trying to make, but he made it something spec It's like you go to the Olympics to jump nineteen feet at the pole vault and I don't know, some wind takes you three ft and you break the world record. You know. So that's the way

it felt. So I then as I started listening to the tracks, I said, you know, I think I'm I told Wayne Hood, who who is the engineer co producer with me. I said, Wayne, I think I'm gonna call Patty Scalfe for this song. Him to him, she has that Jersey soul. She she's like the Jersey soul girl. She'll add something to this song. I know it. So I sent it to Patty and I thought, here's the deal, Bob, this is the this is the great part about why this album was so much fun to make. Sometimes albums

excruciating hard work. This thing was like I would is like I felt like I was riding a wave, you know. Uh. I sent it to Patty. I thought she was gonna echo some of the lines I, you know, sang, and she was gonna hit some harmony, which was very uh you know obvious. You know, maybe she'll sing harmony here and there. This is what I'm thinking, this is why

I make a record. But no, She goes in and lays her voice or stacks her vocals about twelve times, and she captures the wind that the Holy Spirit on the on the on the record, you know. And then Bruce walks and he says, what are you doing? And she says, I'm doing a record with Dihon. He says, I love this song. He says, ask him if I could play a solo. She she she calls me. She says, Bruce wants to play a solo, And I said, do

I have to pay him? So so I said, okay, could you know so she uh, so he played a solo on it. So I got, you know, this this is the fun I was. And then I I thought, well me, and I asked, you know, I have Bruce and Petty. Let me call Stephen van Zan. He's he's a friend. We go way back, used to we we played together in the seventies, you know, and we've been friends all these years. So you know, he jumped on a song called way Down. So that's how it started, you know. And I just and and Bob, I kid

you not. I just didn't send the songs out from here on in like to just two people because of who they were or you know. Uh, I was listening to stuff and I'm a big fan of like Sonny Landreth's guitar slide guitar playing. I knew the song, I got the queue and needed a slide guitar player that I knew and and I thought, this guy, this guy is the best. So and Sonny was just thrilled to do it. Some anti fish. You know, I know she's from New Orleans. I mean, I mean she lives that

nobody in New Orleans place bad nobody. So I I you know, she jumped on it. So it was just fun. Every time, either I was in the studio with people like Little Stephen and John Hammond, or I had to send it to send them the recording, like uh, you know, like Brian sets up he was in the Midwest somewhere I had I I sent them Uptown number seven. But I heard him on it. It was like a rockabilly thing, you know, so um you know, it just it went from there and it was exciting. Man, it was like fun.

It was just it was like every time uh, I got someone to contribute their vision and what they were hearing onto the track I did. It was so exciting for me because it was like a gift. It was almost like unwrapping a present or something, you know. And I found out something about myself at this age, all the years that I've been around, man, I hate to ask anybody for anything. You know. I was brought up, you know, you do it yourself, you know, like a pride thing. You know. I don't know what it was.

I just never said, hey, I could use your help. Never that would have been like, I don't know weakness, I don't know the neighborhood, I was in this macho Italian crap. You know, I don't know what it was, but I'm telling you did I appreciate people these acts of service or the or the the giving or the time they put into uh my thing. It was like it was like truly a blessing. Okay, how did you get Van Morrison and Jeff back on the record. Well, I'll go with from Marrison first. Van Morrison is my

wife's favorite singer and I know him. We go out for dinner. Every time he comes close to my house. He gives me a call. Let's let's go back. How do you know Vann Morrison? I met Van Morrison back at the Spectrum in Philadelphia with the Moody Blues, back when he had uh, you know, moon dance out and we became friends. I'm just a little more interested. So you were out the Spectrum, we were on the show together. Oh,

you were on the show together. Okay, we were backstage and uh, I just we started talking and we both uh we hit it up because we we both had something in common with Bert Burns. Uh with an Then again you start you start like bonding on on people, you know, you know, with John Lee Hooker and and jazz and the horn players at the Apollo. You know, I was telling him one time, I said, I said Van, I said, you know, I said, the when I put these guys together and I recruited what became Dion and

the Belmonts. I said, uh, the way I used to do the arrangements for the wander or Runaround Sue or Ruby Baby. I said, when I heard the the the horn section at the Apollo, I would just try to imitate the horn section. So I give these guys parts, you know, like Ruby Baby. It's like Rue Man, it's like a horn section. Madd Ant and dad at and Dad or the Wanderer. We were we're going like that lola la la la up. But it's like uh bot blood do and do it out out and do that ut.

Now you know it's it's like horns. So when I when I was explaining that stuff to him and he said, man, I want to sing like a horn, I said me too. I said, I'm a rhythm singer. I don't hold notes. I like to but that. But let her doesn't do that and do that. But do you know, so, I said, I'm a rhythm singer. You give me a beat and we just bonded on that stuff, you know, and so we've been fresh. So I always told my wife, I said, listen,

Van Morrison and I are soul brothers. Man. She said, no, he's bad, you know, She's give me all this stuff, but she loves Van Morrison. She's like you get in her car. She has twelfth Van Marrison c ds, so still has a CD playing right of couse. So anyway, I I I asked Van. I thought, you know, let me ask him, and I wanted him to play Actually I wanted him to play horn, and he said no, I'd rather sing with you. So I wrote this song. I had this song called I Got Nothing. So I said, man,

when you got Van Mark, I told Susan. I said, man, when you sing it with Van Morrison, nothing is good enough is more than enough, you know. I said that it was so much fun doing this record with him, because you know, he's he's just so free a band and he yells, he's just so not he's so honest, so natural, you know, And you know I'm like that when I'm inside a song, I just like expressing it. I don't produce anything, you know, I express it. I

never sing a song the same twice, you know. So, so I I enjoyed that and it came out good, came out good. Then well, I had this beautiful ballad Bob. It's called I Can't Get Started Again. I Can't Get Started Again. I'm i'm, I'm listening to it. I'm thinking. You know, Jeff Beck is the only guitar player that can make me cry. I mean, I've I've heard him do Ori ears that from La Traviato. You know, I don't know he he can make me cry? So I you know, Susan says, I don't know Jeff Beck. You

know he's he's pretty much, you know, isolated out. You know, I don't. I don't know if he's gonna respond. I asked him. I I wrote him an email. He said, I'd love to do it. He said, in fact, I'd love to put the song on my new album. I said, you got it, so he It was that simple. He was very easy to work with. He was so generous with me. It was it was incredible. So, okay, how do you know Jeff Beck? Well? I met Jeff Beck at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He he

played a song he did uh uh. People get ready, you know, and he just amazed me. You know he uh, you know, I know him from his you know, early recordings, whether with you know Male or the you know people he was with early on and you know followed him, and you know, he's just he's just a gold standard bearer because when people are in the room with Jeff Beck, they like at attention. You know, he's just something he he and he does it just with his hands. I know,

no pick, It's amazing. He's got gold in his hands. He's like, uh, he's got a touch that I don't know. He doesn't use, he doesn't use effects, he doesn't use a whole lot of crazy sting. He just plays with his hands and he gets the sound. It's just I don't know, it's incredible. It's it's just it's amazing what he does. I was just grateful to get him on the song. I'm so grateful that he said yes, Okay.

A couple of things you are literally alleged. Do you find when you're in these situations like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, people just are drawn to you. They want to meet you. I don't know, I don't I really don't know. But about that maybe some of

those guys voted for me. I really don't know. But uh, but you know when I called Jeff Beck and started talking to him, you know, he he did an album called Crazy Legs, and uh, you know he uh, you know, Geen Vincent had had a guitar player that uh uh never left Virginia, you know, but uh, Jeff Beck honored him by uh Cliff Gallup. He he honored him by doing this whole album around Cliff Gallup because the guy was just a great player, you know. And uh I

was talking to Jeff about that. I said, man, when you made that album, Gene Vincent must have been smiling down on you, you know, because uh, this guy is just so I don't know, he's the best. You know, people don't real They talk about Clapton, they talk about Hendricks. I don't care. Jimmy Page. Beck is the best. I agree, I agree, and I love Joe Bonamas. I think he's

lots a whole new generation he's got. Yeah, well you know it comes down from you got Muddy Waters, Howling Wolf and all all those guys, you know, skip James Robert Johnson. Then you get that next generation with Jeff Beck and Claude Then and Jimmy Page and Joe Bonamas is the nu kid on the block. Okay, you talk about all these people are literally high profile legends themselves.

You say you don't like to ask for favors, but are you someone to use the old term, who has a pretty big rolodex and stays in touch with these people or this just because you're making the album it came together? Yeah, a little of both, you know, a little of both. I like Jon Hammond, Rory Blocks. You know, most most of the people on here on the album. You know, I I see periodically and have dinner with

him and UH know them. But some of the people I just know and you know, I don't go out with them, but you know, I don't see them like daily or you know, frequently. But you know how it is when you have a friend, it's like you don't see him for five years and you pick up it's like right there, It's like absolutely, you didn't move an inch, you know, It's like you just continue. So um, you know, it was a little of both, you know. Okay. Um, Now,

the music business has certainly changed since you started. When it was a lot of independence and it was all about the hits. Today, even a Gigiana kid is nowhere close to what it was in the sixties. People have no idea these songs would play, everybody would know them. So when you make music today and it's harder to get the message out and you know inherently for everybody, the impact is lower, is it hard to keep your motivation? Well,

I don't know. I feel like I've I did more in this in this last year, and then I didn't the last twenty years for some reason. But so I'm I'm motivated just because I was, uh like, I love talking about this album because it's I don't feel like I'm talking about me so much. It's just that I've been surrounded by these incredible artists, so I got got into their lives a little and just to appreciate what they do and being connected with them and and them

doing me such a giving me such a gift. You know, it's it was a it was just a nice time of life for me. You know, it was uh just enjoyable. And you know, the to enjoy relationships like that, Uh, the the impact, I know what you I know what you're talking about. You know, there was a time when you come out with an album and it sold six million. None none of mine. But you know what I'm saying, uh, And I don't really like. There's a kid across the

street from me. I've known known him since he was born. His name is Zach Cone. He has a he has a group called Red Drum Society. But this kid used to come in my house, I would say. He would ask me how to play guitar, and I taught him how to play guitar. And then a couple of years ago he said I can't sing. I said, yeah, you could sing, Zach. I took him out on the street and we started yelling. And now he's singing. And now he has a number one EP on the blues charts,

Red Drum Society. And and I go to him and say, Zack, what kind of business am I in? Because I don't now he's teaching me about them. I taught him about the art, he's teaching me about the business. He's teaching me about the meta tags and the and the UH, the analytics and the and the UH on the back end the Facebook and in the back end of Instagram

and all you know who. I didn't know what what he was talking about you know, but uh, you learned about it about these uh you know, uh the marketing part of it because he's doing it alone, and uh he knows the inner workings of it, you know, so we're helping each other. It's crazy, but it's a great business.

It absolutely is. Let's talk about the blues. Certainly all of the uh British guitarists were influenced by the Delta Blues people who were tend to be ignored in America until college kids picked him up in the sixties and they started to book him. Were you always a fan of the blues and these blues musicians? No, I grew up. I grew up. Well, I did hear John Lee Hooker. I did hear Jimmy Reid. Jimmy Reid's part of my

d n A. Uh, that's why I got into this business, Bob. Like, I heard a song by Hank Williams on my radio when I was like ten years old, and it just that was it? What song was it? It was called honky Tonk Blues. It threw me right on the road. There was a little radio station that came out of Newark, New Jersey, the the Don Larkins show. He was an army guy and he got into country music. He started

he was a DJ. I used to run home from from junior High school just to get the last twenty minutes of it because it was like from three to four. So uh, and I and I, you know, this is after I heard Hank Williams. I tracked it down who was playing it, and you know, stuff like that, and and then I went. I went up to Fordham Road. There was a in the bronx Um. There was a little record shop called Cousins Record Shop. Luke cha Ketty owned it, and I asked Lou I said, I heard

a song by Hank Williams, um honky tonk blues. And he pulled the record out and I I went upstairs and put it on the turntable with the needle and listen. I said, that's I want this. And I heard the back side of it, and I learned my uncle got me a guitar, and I start. I just was mesmerized by this stuff. You know, it's hard to explain what what that does to you when you hear it, you know, like because it threw me on the road, you know it. Uh, it was so engaging, so Uh, Luca Ketty said, I'll

just give me a number. I'll call you when every every new Hank Williams song comes out, I said, please.

I fell in love with this guy. Then I heard Jimmy Reid, and then I was a weird kid man because in my neighborhood people was they were listening to Jimmy Riselli and Jerry Vale, and uh, you know, here I am listening to Jimmy Reid and Hank Williams, you know, and you know when you hear something like, uh, you know, Jimmy Reid, I want I wanted to I wanted to communicate like Hank Williams, and I wanted to groove like Jimmy Reid. So uh, that's how I got into that.

And what was the question? No, I forgot. You know, it's your affection for the blues, the generation of that, and when it happened. Yeah, well, well I I started. I I kind of digested that music and and started to make my own records. And when I got to run around Sue, which is probably a a cleverly disguised blue song, and the and the Wander is a blue song, and Ruby Baby is a blue song. And Drip Drop

is a blue song. And I was up at Columbia and right across the hallway, which was only about three ft four ft they had hallways, and John Hammond Sr. His office was right across the hallway from Tom Wilson, who was producing me. He produced Dylan too. I was the first rock and roll assigned to Columbia Records, you know, before it became Sony Records then. Uh. John Hammond asked me one day, I was I was sitting on on the pianos bench with Aretha Franklin and we was we

were doing got to tell this story. How are you sitting on the bench with the Wreatha Franklin who was signed to Columbia before she goes to Atlantic and has her big hits, right, And they didn't know what to do with both of us. They were giving us Al Jolson songs. They gave Aretha, I don't know, you know, some kind of rock, a Bye My Baby, but a Dixie mellow, you know. And they gave me a couple

of Al Jolson songs. I liked al Jolson. My father used to listen to him and him I liked he was you know, he just had some swagger back then. You know. Now it's a little corny body, you know, but he was great. So yeah, but tell me the story of meeting in Wreatha Franklin and sitting on the piano bench. We both were a recording uh, and Bob Mercy was uh producing her Al Jolson songs and producing

my Al Jolson songs. So it's it. And I'm sitting in his office was and the pianos right near the doorway, and we're doing drip drop, you know, the roof League and in the rain falling, No my head, drip drop, I said, the roof fifth League and in the rainfall and no my head hand I need him mop I crossed so hot, tear all and down in my bed head drip ity drop and uh, you know Hammond John Hammond walks, He says, hey, uh, he says, come in

my office when you're finished. So I walk in there and he says, Dean, you know you got a flare for the blues. You know. He says, uh, I gotta play it. He says, my son is getting into the blues. He said, uh. So he plays me something of his size. Man, that's pretty cool. He takes out the Robert Johnson album this is one, Bob. This is before Clapton probably heard Crossroads and John Hammond plays me preaching blues and Crossroads, and I was mesmerized. I said, I need one of you.

Gotta get get me one of those albums. And I brought it home and nobody when I played it, nobody would there was going, what the hell are you listening to? They thought it was like Chinese music. They didn't know what the hell. I thought, you don't hear what he's doing. I thought it was I thought it was unbelievable. I got crazy and I started really getting into the You know, I did all kinds of blues songs in the early sixties up at Columbia with the the Apollo Theater guys.

I did Spoonful by Howling Wolf early in the sixties, way before Cream or any any of those guys have a touched now. I was up at Serious Radio and and Peter Townsend and uh Roger walked in. They because they heard I was doing an interview, and they said, Dian, we love that song Spoonful. How the hell did you record that song? We want to know. I said, I was listening to Howland Wolf. I loved the song. One

of my favorite Holland Wolf's songs. I said, I had this Birdland Gibson guitar, and I got into tremlow because Abou Diddley and I went up to Colombia and I had all the guys from the Apollo Theater band there, Buddy Lucas and Stick Sevens on drums, and Panama Francis and percussion, all these Mickey guitar, Baker and or Concurs, all these guys and and they would encourage me, and I said, I just said follow me, and I sang it. I said, that's the record. So they said, that's one

of our favorite records. Who you know who? Who knows? You know? If to all these years, somebody tells me that it's crazy because you never know who you're reaching or who's listening. Well, you're at the I of the hurricane. That's why I say, if I write something, I don't know what people are talking about. People the same type of thing. These records have a long life. Let's go back to you growing up though. You go to school,

good student, bad student, popular kid, unpopular kid. I wasn't unpopular, No, I was pretty uh in the mix, you know, Uh? I wasn't the greatest student. I was really good with math. I was a good I was good with math, but I had problem hims. I had like these, I'd get in fights and I don't know I had these. You know, I think it's you know, my father never had a real job, so when my uncle's and everybody got together, you know that they would put him down at the

dinner table. They'd be like laughing at him. And at seven years old, I must have said to myself, nobody's ever gonna treat me like that. I'll break their freaking face. You know, I got this attitude. So I was like like this angry, like, don't ever, I don't ever. Yeah, I'm nobody's joke, you know. I'm like, you know, I didn't want to be treated. I must have sworn out to heaven or you know, vowed an oath that no one. I got this attitude, you know, So that's what I

You know, I was like a good kid. I wanted to be a good kid. I was a weird kid because I'm into Hank Williams, I'm into Jimmy Reid, and I'm reading St. Thomas a coinas I'm like interested in blues and God. I wanted to know who God was, where he was. You know, I just that's that was my deal. Okay. But I was a good I was good with sports. You know. I had a good eye,

hand coordination, you know, whatever sport was around. But you know, one day I challenged this guy up at Mount St. Michael on track on the track because I thought I was fast. We got on the track. I want to tell you something I forgot about track. After I raised this guy. I forgot. I said, that's not that's not it. I'm not going there because I couldn't be best at it. So I picked up the guitar and I started, you know, writing or trying to do something there. Okay, tell me

more about your father. He didn't have a job. Where did the money come from? Your mother worked too? Yeah? My mother worked. She was a work She died a hundred and four. She worked. She worked down in the in the Millinary district in Manhattan. She took two three busses and come back and cooked dinner with a coat on. She you know, she she was the hub of the of the family, you know. But but they argued all the time because my father was like an emotional thirteen

year old. You know, he I don't know. Maybe he was on the grid somewhere, you know, I don't I don't know where he was at. But but I gotta tell you my father had great qualities. The guy was an unbelievable athlete. He could swim and we would go to Orchard Beach. He'd swim out to an island. He'd dive off the city island bridge, and then he would sculpt. He would go in the cellar and sculpt something or lift weight. But he didn't like to work. How many

kids in the family, Uh three? I was the oldest. I had two two sisters. Well, use are the oldest. All the hopes and dreams were in the oldest kid, and the oldest kid gets pushed. Was that your experience? Well, I didn't need to get pushed. I was pushing myself. I was like, Uh, I was just on a mission. The drive was on, and then uh was there music in the house. My father listened to Al Jolson. He listened to Louis Prima. I always say Louis Prima would be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame if

he didn't sing Italian song. Because Sam but Tera was one of the best sex sax players I've I've ever heard you know that guy he was. He was just great. Okay, I'm a little younger than you, but I certainly were. And one of the big things they always said was street corner sea What was really going on there? Were you really seeing it on the street corners? Absolutely? Where else? Are hallways? When we found out the hallways had a better sound, we got into the hallways or the or

the subway stations. But but we were saying anywhere, you know, on the stoops mostly you know, yeah, absolutely it was street music. Uh you know, we weren't on stage. We we didn't have a studio. It was like, uh, it was street music. We we get together and make up sounds, you know, you know, dead lead lead lead let yeah, dead little lead lead let yeah. You know down dome, dome, dome, dom dom and just jump on it with some harmony

and it it was an art form, you know. And at what point do you say, hmm, I can make this a career, I can earn a living at this Well, I went down to a little company. Uh. There was a black guy in my neighborhood. His name was Willie Green. He was the Uh, the janitor of one of the apartment buildings. I couldn't wait to get with him after school because he played guitar and he listened to John Lee Hook. I loved this guy man, you know, I just couldn't wait to get with him. You know, it

was the real deal for me. It was it was stuff that made me feel alive, you know. So I uh and he you know, then I found out that there was this company and they wanted me to audition. There was a songwriter in the neighborhood, not a very good one, but he knew this company and he he said, you should go down here in the audition. He got me an audition, and I was I was kind of frightened about it. And I told Willie Willie Green, this janitor, he said, just be yourself, he said, he said, sing

that called Perkins song sang for me. You know. So I went down there and I did that, and I got a record deal. And uh, I didn't know what I was doing. I just you know, saying they they signed me right away. So uh, then they wanted they put me with this group from Oklahoma called the timber Lanes. You know, like to tote, you know, like you know, like uh, I said, I can't sing with these guys.

So that was how I recruited all the best uh you know street doo wop singer is from the streets, you know that used to hang out in different neighborhoods listening to different jukeboxes. And uh, I got the best, you know, the best of the best and put them together. And it came out with my house one day and we put I wonder why together, Bob, you should have been there. I'm telling you, it was like a dream. I'm true. I don't know, you know, I wasn't in to do up that. I mean, I never sang with

three other guys in the room. I had had a guitar and I would do Hank Williams songs or something. But being this company wanted to, you know, put me with this group, the Templings, and they did. I recorded uh something and I just didn't like it. I said, you know, let me try it. Being you want this,

I'll get some guys. I'll do anything, you know, because I would do anything to make a record or you know, being an artist or so I got these guys and we put this song together and the first day we sang that song in my parents apartment, in my bedroom. Those three guys, it was it was like I was on a carousel in heaven. One guy was singing then and and that and and that and let edit and that and done, done that. The other guys on whoo and the other guy when when you know, and I'm

singing lead. We were doing four different things. It was like dixie Land, but it was our own thing. Uh. But it was amazing. It was like a golden It was a golden moment, a real defining moment in my life. Okay, you have success. What would you consider to be your first big hit record? I think that I wonder why? Okay, so if we go, wonder why you cut it in the studio and they used to cut really fast. Did you know it was gonna be as big as it ended up being. No, But I knew we had something special.

I liked it. I thought it was I thought it was pretty cool. It was different, you know. Uh, the intro to it is is as distinctive as for doop as Chuck Berry's in True and Row to Johnny be Good on guitar. Okay, but you're a young guy, you're living in the Bronx. Everybody's listening to the radio. What to like? What your song comes over the radio? What are the kids of the neighborhood saying? What do you think, Bob?

It was It was crazy because, uh, you know, we didn't have air conditioners, so everybody had their there windows open in the summer right there, just you know, in the radios around and and they know that Dion and a Bellmans. They know I'm Francis as kid patent Francis Kin and I got a record out, so everybody's listening to the countdown. Everybody listened to the same music. Back then, we didn't have all these stations. Now you look, they

have like fifty genres. Know, everybody listens to the same stuff, so I wonder why it comes on. It was. It was like it was surround sound coming out of everybody's window, so you know, and out of the convertibles in the street. So it was amazing. We uh, we bought jackets and we painted Dion and the Belmont's on the back. You know, we were like we were crazy. So it was a lot of fun, okay, but then you go on an incredible run both with him without the Belmont and you're

a young guy. How do you handle that emotionally? You know, I'm bob. I I couldn't handle my emotions for I didn't even know what they were, where they came from. So, uh yeah, I started, you know, like a lot of people, I started with the drinking and the drugging, and uh, I started pretty young. Actually I started before I was recording.

I started, uh fooling with with drugs when I was fourteen, and uh, you know, so I uh, you know, I wanted a umplished something with the singing and the contract and the records, but really I my feet were firmly planted on the in the air. You know, I had no I had no foundation at all. So it's crazy. Uh, and I you know, I got it, you know with

that stuff, it's progressive and you get hooked. And the mid sixties were you know, I always say this, this three stages to drug addiction or alcoholism and all that kind of stuff. The first stage goes up, it's a lot of fun, you think you found heaven. The second stage is it flattens out. It's like fun and some problems.

And then the third stage is nothing but problems. So that's how it went for me, uh the mid you know, when I was at Colombia, I was it was fun and then it got fun and some problems and uh you know like that. Okay, so you go on the road, you're a young success, do you partake of all of the goodies on the road, not only the drugs but the sex, etcetera. And I I I was a shy kid. Man. I was shy, so I I wasn't uh you know,

it just wasn't part of my nature too. Uh just uh yeah, I wanted to, you know, and I did, but I wouldn't say it was like overboard. I was like I meet somebody. You know, if it happened, it happened. But you know, uh, I mean, yeah, you know, it's funny. I go back to the St. Thome as A Quintas that I was reading. It's funny how things are backed you when you're older and you're and you're having problems

emotionally and you're you're taking drugs because uh uh. I started thinking about St. Thomas Aquinas and I started thinking about some of the things I I learned, and I you know, it's Acquaintas would say, if you don't have God in your life. You have to fill up on something, and it's usually the four substitutes, the the typical temptations or addictions. Its wealth, pleasure, power, and honor. And you want you got to get the money, the pleasure, sex, drugs,

rock and roll, you gotta get you know. You you could see the politicians with the power, and people got power. That's that's a big addiction. And and honor. You gotta be right, you gotta win, you gotta be better. You got back all this stuff. So you try to fill yourself up with that stuff and it doesn't really work because it's outside yourself. You know, you're really not finding uh you, It'll never satisfy that deep longing of of

the of your heart and spirit, you know. So I started to think about these things when I started getting addicted, you know, and I was when I was miserable, you know, coming into nineteen. I started thinking about the Mon Senior who stopped me on the street one day and he said, yo, Dion, come over here. What makes a man happy? And I said, Mon, seeing you, if I could get a thunderbird, if I could get a Gibson J two hundred guitar, I could get a hit record, I'm talking about when I was

fifteen years old. I said, if I could get a date with that girl, Susan who moved down from Ver month, I'd be a happy guy. He said, no, Dion, the virtuous man is a happy man. I said, what the hell is virtue? I had no idea what it was because I was up to no good. And he said, it's a habitual and firm disposition to do the good. I mean, I remembered it because we sat there for twenty minutes and he drilled it into my head and

I was up to no good. So but later on, when I'm hooked and baffled and wondering about he started thinking about these things. Gee. Maybe what he said was I wonder how you get there? You know? And then I met a guy I was like, I was, you know, I had twelve gold records on the wall, and I had a you know, I I had success run around Sue and the Wanderer and route. I had some big

records with teenager in love as a kid. And then it rolls around nineteen six and February of nineteen sixty eight, Frankie Lyman dies of an overdose and I used to I ran the streets with Frankie Lyman. We used to we used to like take drugs together and stuff, and it just scared me. I thought, you know this is this is not gonna end up well. So I got on my knees one night and like that's why I said. It was like December fourteenth, there was I got on

my knees and I asked God for help. I said, God, I don't know if you're real, I don't know what's going but you I need help. I'm telling you I haven't had a drug or a drink in fifty two years. So that was my Then I meet this guy and I'm having coffee with him. I don't know if you want to hear this, but keep going, keep going. But this is crazy, you know, because I'm from the streets, man, I'm from Crotona Avenue in the Bronx. We don't talk about this stuff. Nobody says, are you serene? Or how

do you find peace of mind? You know who the hell cares? You know, nobody's thinking like that. But this guy says to me, do you know where feelings come from? I said no. He said, they come from your thinking. Your thought, you will feel what you're thinking, now, who the hell of a knew that? I didn't know that. So now if if you know, if I get off someday like a little which I don't, you know, I'm

I'm a funny guy. Because if you would open up my brain, if you would open up saw my head in half and look inside my brain, you'd see a very peaceful, orderly place. So and that's because of this guy who told me that. Because so you know, he was like into pursuing wisdom, you know, cultivating the life of the mind. He used to say, this is where you live in your mind. You live here. You know, it's got you gotta be right because I was a mess.

I was a mess, bob, you know. But thank god, I I think from that point on, well, I've always had this. I've always had this. I gotta say, I've always had this wonderful gift to surround myself with great people that knew more than I did, much more than I did. I don't know what that and and I'm not saying all the time I was around, you know, there were people coming out of my life that weren't like that. But the people that I really appreciated, I I I had this ability to notice that I wanted

to be this guy's friend. You know, he he could take me to higher ground. Okay, man, let's say look, let's say hypothetically tomorrow you went to the doctor and he said you have a year to live tragically, but it doesn't not really happening. Would you partake of drugs and alcohol or would you stay off? Oh? Absolutely not, absolutely stay clean. Now I'm I'm high. I'm like, Uh, I'm a very grateful guy. I wouldn't want to be any other place than in the presence of beauty and

ore and wonder and life and I and my friends. No, okay, you become sober and sixty eight, that's very early, you know. So being sober today is a big thing. But certainly it's something like me who gave up alcohol in for years. People are cajoling me, have a drink, have a drink. Did you experience that? Yeah, But it's not something I got rid of or something. It's it's just something that uh, I don't I don't want and I don't need to go there, and I don't need to feel better than

I feel. I really I like to feel what I'm feeling. Um, I like to experience life in a very real way, on a higher reality. Um, it's just uh to me, it's the real deal. It's something uh and and drugs are alcohol. They they I want to be fully alive, and that's not the way to go if you want to I'm totally with you. There's no drug I've ever taken that's as good as a natural Hye me sound like a cliche, but I firmly believe that. No, I uh And, Look, it's been fifty two years. I have

three daughters that loved me dearly. They walk in the house, they want to lean on my shoulder and hug me, and they don't feel judged. I don't judge them. I enjoy them. I have. I have a wife, that girl Susan. I told you I met her when I was fourteen. Still my wife been married fifty seven years. I'm like, if I had one year to live, I'd probably get closer to my friends and uh and and closer to the people I love. But I wouldn't. You know, rugs and alcohol would take you further away from that, So

I wouldn't. I wouldn't even think of that. Okay, So when you started out the package tour was the big thing. What were those days? Like? Wow, I'll tell you something, I learned a lot because you know, back in those days, well even today, the music brought the races together, brought different cultures together. You know. I traveled with Bobby Blue Bland, I traveled with Sam Cook. I'll tell you a story

I put in. Uh. There's a song actually Songwriters of America UH picked it as the best song of Uh. It's called song for Sam Cook here in America. And what the song comes out of is um uh and and and Paul Simon helped uh is on it. He uh he sang some harmony with me, who made it just really something special. But when I met Sam Cook, I traveled with Sam Cook um for about form for for a month on a big show called show of Shows show. Uh, I forget something like that. I forget

the name of the tour. But we we traveled all over the country and then we went on another tour and uh we were down in uh Memphis, and he was a very refined guy, Sam Cook, very intelligent. Uh. You know, I was rough, I was rough around the edges. I was kid from the Bronx. You know. He was

a preacher's kid. And uh, I saw him in a lot of different situations in Memphis and people were you know, there was racism in New York, but it wasn't the same because I was, like I told you, I was at Columbia Records with all the Apollo guys that you know, and I was friends. I I became friends with Buddy Lucas for all his life, you know. And Sam Uh. You know, they had the Jim Crow laws down here. I who knew anything about that? You know, that was

a whole different thing from me. So when when I saw people treating him the way they treated him, he was a very beautiful guy Statue West. He was tall, he was stood straight, he was bright. He he wanted to be around them because you know, like I said, you could learn from guys like this, so I would, you know, he he taught me basically that racism was, you know, a peculiar way to become a man. And uh, and if race matted to you, basically I learned it from him. If if race matters to you, if it's

significant to you, you're a racist. It didn't matter to us. It doesn't matter to you and me. It's like I color a shoe color, you know. So I would watch this guy and I'd say, Sam, an youa punch that guy in his face, you know, And he'd say, Dan, you know, why what? Why should I get down on that level? You know? You know. So I got to observe him in a lot of different situations and the way he responded, and I never seen him get ruffled.

I've never seen him get angry. I've seen him say things that were like incredible to just just deflective stuff that would like putting somebody's face, like put up a mirror in somebody's face to show them where they were really at. And I would think, what the hell that, you know, And then it dawned on me after about three weeks that he was the smartest guy in the room. But he never lets you know it. He just he was that smart. He didn't even have to go there.

These people were idiots, you know. So he wanted to and he would talk about God and he would talk about brotherhood and friendship and understanding. He was he was like living out the Gospel. He would understand me. He he stood up for me. He he Sam Cook took me to a club in Memphis to to to see James Brown and the Flames, and people were getting on my case and he sayd hey, he's the kids with me. That's Dion, you know, we're doing shows things. But he was He was a good guy. So I wrote this

song years ago and I never recorded it. It's called song for Sam Cook. And uh, last year when I when I saw a Green Book, I said to my wife, Wow, they wrote a song. They wrote they put a movie together. Reminds me of my song. You know, it's it's like backwards, but it it reminds me of my song. So I took the song out and it ended up on Blues with Friends. And when I get when I played it for Paul Simon, you know, he mentioned racism. He said

a song and I said, it's not really. I said, yes, there's a racism component to it, but it's really about it. It's really a song about brotherly love and friendship and understanding. And uh he said, yeah, I get it. I get it. So we did it together. Okay, who turned you onto heroin? What were the circumstances there? Ah, one day, you know, the the idea of that. I was young and my parents were always arguing, always, man just twenty four seven. My father never had a job, and they would, you know,

just be at it all the time. So the first time I snorted some of this stuff, I was like, whoa. I was on the street the next day looking for it. I want more of that. It made me feel good, period, and uh that's what happens, you know. Uh, I just felt good. Okay, So tell us your version of splitting up with the Belmont. My version is is the real reason.

You know, we did the first album and I had this love for Hank Williams and Jimmy Reid and these three guys that I put together started wanting to do they I don't know what they want, you know, because people back then talked about legitimate music like I wonder why wasn't legitimate? And they wanted to do stuff like for four times ups I don't know, like the like the uh the let him I forget. You know. It

was like these these groups that sang smooth harmonies. Uh, and and we did a whole album of the this these songs that I guess from the Great American Songbook, you know, the Swinging on a Star and you know, in the Still of the Night, not the not the five sentence in the still of the night. But you know some of the like where when we had to hit record called where When because it was I did it because of it was the record company president's favorite song.

So I put a version of that together. Then they wanted to sing everything like that. I said, I can't do that. I just can't do that. I'll blow my brains out. So we just split. And that's how I got to make runaround Sue and the wander and everything. You know, because if I would have stayed with them, I would have been if I would have stayed with that, not not basically with them. I love the guys I was there were great talents, and the guys in the

Belmonts they were great, great singers. I loved them, you know, and it was humble to sing with them. But but the music I wanted to do what I wanted to do. It was like, you know, it was driving me. Uh I had no choice. I really didn't have a choice. Uh So, and I'm still doing it and I still don't have a choice. And I, um, what was the difference between being on LORI Records and an independent being on Columbia? Uh? I gotta say there wasn't too much difference.

They both were I tell you the way it was back then. They both were with me, Okay, you want to do that song, ruby baby, do this song. We'll make you you do one song that you want to do. Do one song that we want you to do. So it was like one for you, one for me. Same with Glory Records. That was it. So, you know, I

didn't know any better, you know. But when I got a little older, when I got when I started getting like I was about twenty three, I just I left Columbia and I left a lot of money on the table. I came home and I told my wife Susan, I said, I I left. I can't they they're not going to release the Kicking Child album. They don't like and it's a great album. They just released it recently and it's a it was a great album. Did it all live

with with uh? I don't know, just life right in the studio four guys with Al Cooper on the on the keep warts and Tom Wilson produced it. But I told Susan, I left Columbia. I left the money there, you know, And I had a I had a contract and I had I had I was making a hundred thousand dollars a year for five years. That was the contract, I said, And I left within two years. I left three hundred thousand dollars on the table. I said, keep it.

That's how much the music meant to me. That's how much. Uh. I just couldn't do it. It was the only thing I had in my that that that was my salvation. Was this this gift you know, that was in me. So I just I never lost my artistic curiosity. And I feel like the same as when I was a kid, you know. I like coming out on the stage with a guitar and just rocking, you know, and just doing a great song and taking and taking people on a trip. But it's gotta be. It's gotta be from the inside

of you. How are you gonna do it with somebody else telling you that it just doesn't work? You know? Do it with this song? Nah? I don't think so. Okay, What was your perspective when the Beatles arrived in the whole British invasion? What do you think of that? Well? I didn't, to be honest with you, The Beatles didn't affect me one bit. I didn't even to me, I

don't even call it the British invasion. I call it the uh, the British infusion, because I got into the Stones and you know, and some of the stuff they were doing, like the animals, uh, you know with the House of the Rising Sun. The Beatles were like too cute, I love you, Yeah, yeah, who who you know? I was like nah later for that stuff. I it was too many chords, too cute for me. I I didn't. I didn't get into it, but you know I got I came to appreciate them when they did rub a soul.

They were were they were writing some great songs, you know, and then revolution you know. Uh. But it wasn't like anything that threatened me. I wasn't even it didn't you know why it didn't bother me because I mean it didn't affect me because I was in my room when I after I heard Jon Hammond, after he gave me U an arm full of albums of Furry Lewis and uh, Fred McDowell and Lightning Hopkins and and and and Robert Johnson, I was in my room. I love Bob Dylan. Bob

Dylan came to Columbia. I was at a lot of the early sessions, just sitting there with John Hammond. But I tell you I loved him. That was incredible. But that's what I was into. I was into the blues, love Dylan. Um. You know, I got into a lot of the people in the village that was that was down are, like Tim Harden. Uh. I was watching the Loving Spoonful Creation, you know, Um, Richie Havens, John Hammond Jr. Playing at the gas light, hanging out there, Paul Butterfield. Yeah.

So so the Beatles and not to make it sound try to like, you know, like I'm putting them, but it wasn't for me. I was more. I was more in the blues and the folk thing, you know, the okay, tell us tell us the story of Abraham Martin and John. You know. I was living in Miami. I had moved there a geographical cure because I had been drinking and drugging. And I was, like I said, I ended up there.

Frankie Lyman died. I was in Uh. I was in Miami, and I I met a guy and UH introduced me to a spiritual twelfth Step program and I got into that and I man, I never looked back. I got on my knees one night. I've never been the same. I just I took to it like a I don't know, a duck to water, you know. I So I was, I was working on myself and uh, working on my you know, putting things back together mentally for myself, because I had taken drugs and was drinking for quite a while.

That uh, this song, Uh it comes to me Abraham Martin and John Uh three months after I cleaned up, you know, after I stopped drinking and drugging, and uh, Dick Holla walks in into my house, as you know, uh uh he wrote it. He wrote it kind of like cutesy dude. You know. I remember, you know, as I picked up my guitar, I had a gut string guitar, and I kind of arranged it, you know. I put it together in a way that uh I thought it would be interesting because I was listening to Tim Harden

back then Kenny Rankin, you know. Uh so I don't know, I thought, let me try it like this. I put the song together and I recorded it for Lorie Records. What when I started playing it, my wife said, Wow, that that's the gospel. She said that that sounds like you could kill the dream of but you cannot kill the dream. You know. It's people like us, we pick up on it and carry it further. She said, So I'll keep you in my prayers. Do a good job

with it. I went up to New York, got in the studio with the studio was loaded with musicians like uh and uh of the song with my gut string guitar and who knew because that was you know, in that era, that was Jimmy Hendricks, Cream, Eric Clapton, you know, stuff like that. I would never think it would even you know, I just I just recorded it because it was interesting. But I who would think it would become like an anthem or you know, a song that would

you know, go to number one? Okay, you were one of the first, if not the first mamestream rocker to make Christian music. So he can he tell me about that process and how you flipped back and forth from Christian to secondary music thereafter. Well, to me, you know, it's like to me that uh, I don't even know if it makes sense, but uh, you know, if you go in a record store, they'll have these different bens Christian music, folk music, blues, rock and roll, to me

when I pick up a guitar, it's Dion music. So you know, I wanted to sing a gospel too, umm it I you know, I got into gospel music. Uh. I was listening to some of the groups and Mighty Clouds of Joy, and I heard something. I thought, this is great and you know, and I thought, hey, I don't mind being identified with Jesus because you know, here's a man, god man who cared about the sick, the lonely, the broken, the disabled, you know, the poor. I said,

I don't mind being identified with him. So you know, it never bought you know, I I thought that's an uplifting thing for me and a good way to go. So I wrote a lot of gospel songs, a lot. I think I made five albums. It was to me, it was very lifting. It was like, uh, you know, it just was. It had a lot to do with just what was happening inside of me at the time. Okay, Now, when you started in the record business, royalties were low, they tended not to be paid, and a lot of

these hit records you didn't write. So how is the money worked out over all these decades with me? Yeah? You know, I'm blessed. Man, I'm blessed. I I tell you a lot of guys don't end up in in good shape. But uh, I don't know. I for me, uh I reeled in all the publishing that I wrote about four hundred songs. So man, mailbox money is good for me. I mean it keeps me buoyant, you know it. Uh I have no complaints. I uh i, I've never been uh I never have to claim bankruptcy or you know,

I don't know. I was always I don't know, I'm a generous guy. But I always like I didn't need to be fancy. I didn't need to have a car every year or to live. I never had to show anybody anything, you know. I never had to be extravagant. Like I just wasn't that guy. So I just I ate well. I lived well. I I don't feel like I'm lacking anything. You know. My wife and I uh uh I could help my kids, I could, I could do a lot, you know. But I ended up in a good place because of a great manager. Dick Fox

is man. He is a blessing. He was like mother Teresa to me. You know. He came into my life and I had a good guy by my side and who didn't rip me off for you know, because I come from the era that you know, clever accounting, you're always in the red. I never made any money on albums, never, I never. But you still don't get any record royalties. But yes, through Sound Exchange, through ASCAP thank god that uh uh publishing. You know. I talked to Lou Reed

long time ago. He said, publishing, that's your retirement plan there. So I my wife ran the publishing company for about twenty five years. So, uh, to be honest with you, I did well, I can do. What was it if you? Have you ever gotten a royalty on a record from the label? Yeah, that's and that's that's another situation, you know. But I'll tell you what you get ripped off. You get ripped off, absolutely ripped off. Okay, but I'll tell

you something, especially from you know, from that decade. You know. Now it's a different story. I'm I'm like with much honest, more honest than up from people that show you everything. But uh, back in in that day, everybody got ripped off. I mean, Chuck, Barry bo you talked to all these guys. Everybody got you know, I didn't get paid. But somewhere along the line, the idea comes to you, let me

pull back from this. Like if I'm say, take Muddy Waters comes out of the fields, he's picking cotton, gets his guitar, walks into his studio, you know, Chess records and and say it doesn't get paid. Okay. If you approach the guy like that and say, hey, listen, money, we are going to record you and we're gonna give you an international career, the world is gonna know you, and you know you're gonna make money because you're gonna be the man. You know. Uh, we're gonna give you

a career. We're gonna give you a sixty year career. What do you think of that? Who would who wouldn't, who wouldn't sign on? I'd say yeah. So somewhere along the line you're pulled back and you look at this and you go, well, yeah, I didn't get paid correctly in it, But look at they took a shot with me. They gave me this and they were like that, and

you just I mean nothing. It's right, But you walk away without a resentment and you don't have to ruin your life thinking about people beating you and all that stuff and blaming people. You know, you're just so you know what I'm saying, You gotta pull back and look at the whole picture. Okay. And how did you meet hook up with Dick Fox? He was a fan as a kid, and when I was in uh he showed up when I was going through uh a difficult time, uh and he said, I'd I'd love to to manage you.

This was like in the early nineties and I've been with him ever since. He's made my life a living dream. Thank you, Dick Fox. Thank you God. I mean, you know, when you got a guy like that by your side, what it's just, it makes life. It just makes life wonderful. Okay. Now, you moved to Miami in sixty ye eight. What do we know about Miami? Snowbirds went there, Jackie Gleason moved there, but maybe with criteria study. It was in the seventies Miami became hot, nothing like it is today. Were you

out of the loop? It was good for you for drugs and alcohol? Was it good for you musically? Well? I really was still connected to New York. Uh Uh. I moved down just to get away from drugs and alcohol. And I found that that I took myself with me. But as you'd have it. You know, I met a guy and I got cleaning soba and cleaning soba ever since April of nineteen, and uh, that's a big thing. It kept me healthy and vital and and uh significant, you know, like I like I made this latest album,

Blues with Friends. Do you think I'd go in and make an album if I didn't feel uh, you know, significant, or I had something to say? What what would be the reason to do it? I don't have a reason, you know. So I feel very uh alive and well and like, uh, actually I have more to say now than I did when I was nineteen. I made some great records then. But I just you should hear the new thing I'm doing. I'm doing. I just went in

and cutting. I'm cutting a new album. I must be under the spout where the glory comes out, because man, these songs have been getting downloaded in my head. So I'm excited about this new thing I'm doing. You know, it's just fun. I love, you know, Bob, I've always loved creating something like it wasn't there and all of a sudden it's there. The sound these songs they take people on a trip. I've always loved that more than going on the road and singing and you know, and

doing that deal. I love. I love singing the people. It's just wonderful see the faces. And like I said, I've never changed. I love taking people on a trip. But let me tell you, man, I love creating. I love the idea of creating more than anything. It's just that turns me on, that that that floats my boat. That's why I'm still passionate. Okay, Uh, You've had ups and downs. You talk about alcohol, moving to Miami. Do you ever contemplate giving up, giving up, retiring and doing

something else? Uh? Hey, I don't know. You know, I'll be honest with you. I love talking to men about recovery. I mean, that'll always be a part of my life because someone was there for me and uh showed me where the key was to open up the cell that I was in of of self bondage, you know. And so I just love talking to men because when I see the lights come on, they come alive and they get free, a freedom of excellence, a genuine freedom, not not false. I and their families come together and their

kids and that turns me on. So I so I would never retire from that, and I would never retire. I don't think I could ever retire from making music some some way, you know. And uh so those two things. Uh, Like you know, Bob, I found out a long time ago, there's a big difference between success and fulfillment. And uh,

you know, they're not the same. They're they're different. And you know, and you know, you could just read the headline, you could just read the tabloids and see people that are successful, a lot of them are not very happy. So uh but I'm a grateful guy because I you know, I found peace and and brotherhood with a lot of friends and community and love around me. So I'm I'm good to go. Okay, But before you go on every level. Your mother lived a hundred and four, let's just say

you have twenty years left. Anything specific you want to accomplish, uh or do with that time? Well, you know, I'll tell you something that's crazy. It's crazy because I'm from New York, right. But John Coltrane is a quote that really hit me. He said, the only real regret in life is not to become a saint. Now, you know, you would think well, what do I want to accomplish?

What do I want to do? Well, that's not a bad mission statement to try and let go of all the things that get in the way of of a terrible life, you know, all the addictions and uh you know, uh kind of missing the mark and trying to uh get older, you know, be being self centered and all that. You know, to try and shoot for something like that,

that would be my mission statement to try. You know, listen, I got friends that are looking at me and go ain't gonna happen, you know, listen, Uh, you know I'll never be you know, none of us are going to be perfect, none of us. But it's not a bad thing to to shoot for like perfection and and to be a good person. I always say I got I'm a thinker, you know, I like to think. So I always say God without goodness is fanaticism. And goodness without God doesn't endure it for very long. It has no legs.

So I have all these kind of things. I got my head, you know that, I that that keeps me on track. You know, I got good people around me. You know, do you do you play music in the house on a regular basis, Either records or playing yourself. Yeah, I well, I don't. There's no music blasting in my house all the time. But you know, I have your phones. I got in the truck and I like to play what I like in the truck, and I bought it,

you know. But but I write in the house, I'm always I'm always a you know, in a room with my guitar and uh, because I tell you, it's just I have no choice. These songs get dropped in your head. Bob. You know, it's just it's just something. It's a gift, right, It's a gift because it comes out of the wellspring of creativity. And I'm under it. I just stand and now we are all under it. You're a fountain of wisdom and insight, and you have survived unlike Frankie Lyman.

Thanks so much for taking the time, Dione. Hey, Bob, thank you. We gotta work together. You stay well, stay safe, stay strong. Thanks for the positive words, because I we've both been through it, but I certainly been through it. Until next time. This is Bob left text