Diane Warren

the building every day, which is really crazy. But it's got a big ARE on the side for real songs. Why is your publishing company known as Real Songs? Well, I like to think that I write real songs, so there you go. But I thought it was a cool name for a publishing company at first. I want I was trying from the name Warren Peace to you a R R N right, I E c um And someone had that like you know, which is kind of but no one you think you try to buy it from him? No, no, no,

I just when I that's a long story. When I started my own publishing company years ago, I had to come up with a name, and you know, I didn't try to buy that. But I liked real songs and thinking that there's no way that someone doesn't have that, you know, even even a film company is publishing coming with R E. L. But no one had it. I mean I grabbed it and it just it's kind of kind of fits, kind of fits me. Also, you famously had a studio that you didn't clean for seventeen years.

Oh you tught what you're thinking about. It's like try thirty two and it's still there. It's still there. You ever go in there anymore? I work in there all the time. You do. But now we're in a building on Kwanga that you own. How did you decide to buy a building? Well, my business manager thought, you know, it would be a good investment. He goes, why are you spending all that money on rent there? I go, I like it. I've been there forever and I've been

there again. And I said, but there's this building I really like that I've recorded out. It's some Atlantic Atlantic Records studios are in there now and it's on con It used to be Baby Faces place and sold our records in the past. Death Row also was here. Um, I think the studio on the back is where I shood night held a gun. Easy's head, no loom in all in that room. Who knows what was done here?

But anyways, and so I told I told my business managers a building I love, and I said, check out if it's available, if it's if someone's a celt and they did, and I came here and I looked around him, like, yeah, this I remember. I love this place. I went to the top floor, which reminds me of the place I am now, and I, you know, basically put a bit in. I think someone was trying to buy it, so I put it a little more and I bought it. But I've had it for two and a half years. And

I still really work out of my other place. Man, Yeah, I still have my other place. So I'm still paying a shipload of rent at at my opposite you know, I've been at forever since I'm five. But I have a writing room here and I have all the studios. And then eventually I'm supposed to move to the top floor. My company supposed to move here. But we've already been here for two and a half years. Well know, it's taken time, Like we've had to get the student like

Atlantic at the studios until like the beginning of the year. Um, so we've had to fix them up and um. And then they have to build out the top floor. So that's taken time. Okay, so you're supposed to move to the top floor. Yeah, eventually, I'm supposed to move to the top what's on the top floor now? Like the office buildings, you know, rooms, you know, it was there was nothing up there, so we just had to kind of do it from scratch. So someone had to design it.

And but like where I am, I've never cleaned my rooms. I have two rooms there. I don't know. At first I thought it was maybe you know, you know, superstition, But I think I'm just lazy and I don't like anybody. Probably if we went to your house, is your house? My house is a mess too, but not like my my room, you know, I mean, like is it a mess because you want to know where everything is? Okay, the stuff of my house, I kind of know where everything is. The stuff stuff in my office, I don't

really know. You let someone come in and clean your house, yeah, but this stuff, I won't let her touch the whole rooms. You won't let her. I don't. I don't live in a big house. You know. I have a couple of few rooms, you know, but you know, no, it's just but my office. It's very comfortable for me. Like you were talking about, you have a place you don't funny big work. I move off. They're just gonna light a

match with burden me too. They're gonna I want them to literally cut that room out and bring it here to the top floor. I think it's just really ridiculous. I know where everything is, but I must admit there's certain stuff that hasn't been moved in years. I could find messing. I could pick up a piece of paper and if it doesn't disintegrate in my hand, it could say from someone so and so called. Right, I feel comfortable. I like these people who answer every email every day

and clean their desk every day. I don't get it neither, you know. I like to answer my emails if I can, but I don't. I don't like the clean desk clean I like it. There's something wrong with you when it is too clean. And trust people. The other question, I go through various phases on the email. Do I want to answer every email? But then I find what I'm not in the mood I give the wrong answer. So there's certain emails I should say I get. I get to all of them, but I don't go to inbox zero.

What about like someone something? This what happens to me. I try to be nice even if I don't like and then I'm like, oh shoot, and then get ten more emails back from them like uh, well, we were talking talk about this a little bit off, Mike. I sort of solved that that I don't respond. You don't respond because ten percent of the public is insane and I don't know which ten percent it is, so people

seem totally reasonable. I had a bad experience with my Space about God that is about ten years ago, and should be the guy told me. The guy started bugging me, I'm in a radio contest and you have to tell all your followers to vote for me, which is something I would never do. So what I said, No, he had all his followers emailed me my inbox just you could watch it, just going berserk. And that's when I realized, just can't respond to people well. And then no good deed,

right yea, yeah, no good deed goes unpunished. You know, listen, I sort of understand it. In that success is hard to achieve and it is a club. And if you're an outsider, I can understand how you have contempt. There are a lot of people who are just fans, you know what, like like for all the people that have contempt, for people that have done well with your lives, that will go do well with your own life. Why why are you gonna be why why would you have contempt

for someone that looks really hard? It's too hard to be successful, you know, I always I always the analogy I always using, but it's too hard for them. I remember, you know they have the TV show Friends, So there's three guys and three girls. That's really where it's the second time today someone's brought up that TV show. What was the context of the first time? Someone with without ours? That was in earlier and I've never even seen the show?

Is that weird? Started off good? You know in England the show's in here, they run until no one's watching anymore. But anybody's sitting at home, gay, straight or otherwise. Six people on the show. You could find someone you're interested in. And if you're not living in Los Angeles where the show is filmed, you can sit there and say Hey, you know, if I moved to Los Angeles, I could funk one of those people. But the difference is they

don't move someone like me. I grew up in Connecticut, moved to l A. It takes two years just to find out who's full of ship. Okay, takes longer than that. I'm still trying to figure it out. So it's like, most people don't want to do the work, so they get angry that you have done the work. The irony, of course, you know what, that's their problem. I mean, the thing is like, speaking for myself, I work my ass off, you know, I always have. I get to

work early, I work really hard. I you know, someone's gonna get angry. Like, if someone's gonna get contemptuous of that, that's their problem, you know. Like I've always admired people that make something in themselves. I've never had contempt for them. Well, there's two things now. Used to be prior to the Internet, people couldn't actually reach you. So they were saying these things and you never heard them. But now everyone's got a voice online and if you see Okay, so let's

let's go back at the beginning. You were from l A. I'm from Van Eyes. Yeah, Vienna, I mean literally Vane. I'm from the valley. For people who don't know. There's a row of mountains, the Hollywood Hills, and one side is the West Side and Hollywood. The other side is the Vali's a million miles away from Hollywood. Yeah, but

now not as much it used to be. But like, wouldn't know me growing up and my friends and the Vali Ali that you know, Van Nuys and North rich areas, Like we my friends with hitchhike to Sunset Boulevard were kids and stuff, and you know, it was a million miles away. Okay, so you're growing up, how often would you come to Hollywood or Westwood or something like that? You know, not super often. I didn't, you know. I mean we did crazy things, Me and my friends. You know,

we're glad, we're lucky, we're alive. Like we hitchhike. Can you imagine getting in a car? Was I got to stop for a second. My parents met hitchhiking, seriously, seriously. They both went to Tanglewood and my mother was working in a camp. My father my mother was getting camp just over the New York line, and my father is living in Connecticut and he picked up my mother hitchhiking and they got married. When married for forty years till

my father passed away. So during the heyday of hitchhiking, they could never say don't hitchhike right each other exactly. But I remember because it worked both ways. You both hitchhiking and you felt an obligation to pick somebody up. And it was the mid seventies. I think it was like seventy four, and I was at the intersection of will Shure and Sanvaseny in Brentwood, and I picked a couple of people up and they started bossing me around one wait wait recently, No, this is in the mid seventies.

That's the last time. That's the last time I picked somebody. You don't know, someone pulls out a gun or something, you know, I mean, you don't want that, but I was justin. It was also picked up hitchhiking running away from home to visit my friend in Cape cod was once picked up with a guy to rolls Royce. Well, that's different. Although I read about a serial killer one time that I think he had a role. Really okay, okay, off topic, off topic. This is so you're in vien nice.

What did your father do for a living? My dad was a prudential life insurance salesman. How successful I think he did pretty well, you know, I mean not super six, like probably middle class, you know. Okay, and you have two sisters. Yeah, they're a lot older than me, a lot older, eleven years older. Okay, so you're that's a cool thing about that is I got taken to a Beatle concert when I was little. I don't have experience. That's a cooling him twice Dodger Stadium in Hollywood Bowl. Wow,

that was pretty cool. Okay you were there? Could you hear him? There was a lot of screaming. I still remember. It was a lot of screaming. So you're in v M I and you grow up. When did you get into music? You know? I just liked to I It's weird. I was so into music. So I grew up listening to the radio we had, like the local stations. Was h J before your ten okay before the Beatles hit? Are you listening to the transistor? I was younger? Actually, Um yeah, I did. I listen to had a little

transistor radio. I grew up and my mom and dad had show tunes, So I got to hear like La Mancha on the Sound of Music, but I think the best songs ever West Side Story Come. So I got to hear and I remember, I honestly remember. The first song I remember hearing was probably when I was like like like a baby, was like like a Buddy Holly

or something that my sisters were playing. So and I got to grow up hearing the music that my sisters had and my parents had, and I listened to the radio constantly, and the radio when I grew up, you know, when we you know, was was everything. Like you could hear Motown, you could hear the Beatles, Thank Sinatra or something. I always say, I can ever sing every lick of Hello Dolly by Louis Armstrong, because I was waiting for

the Beatles. Well, you know, they're all songs. We would not know King of the Road, which is like a great song. I wouldn't know, did I knew? How did How did we hear that? How did I hear that? In Van eye? We must have been one on the top forty radio because it was supposedly the best of everything. So I missed that. That was cool cause you got to hear everything you know, yeah, I list you know today it's it's so hard to know what's going I mean it's very fragmented, you know. It's like, Okay, it

sounds like the same track on this song. I mean, you know, but I mean it was It's fun, you know. That's the cool thing about you know, you can go and hear everything anything you want though. Yeah, but I guess there's a sense of community. Like when we sit here and talk about these old records, we go, yeah, like did you see that Wayne Cochrane died? Okay, Wayne Cochrane, the guy with a big blonde here. What I've forgotten is he wrote the song last Kiss You didn't have

to hit first? You remember that song? Yeah, I was on on a date. We can sit here and do Yeah, who did that song? Uh? Somebody J and whatever. I can't remember. It's like sixty four and Leaven Pearl. It's about like a like an accident and there's a lot of like tragic love songs exactly. But we can talk about that word the pack then they always end up dying, right exactly. Okay, So you were listening to the radio

before the Beatles hit. Yeah, I was listening to radio like, I think I grew up like my ear on a radio and you loved music. Are you buying records? The first record I ever bought was Meet the Beatles. Okay, so I mean I'm trying to think. Yeah, I bought records. I my parents bought me records and stuff that I Then I got a little guitar. It was about like nine or ten that my dad brought me from Mexico.

I wanted it. You wanted it? Yeah, it was a teeny little I wish I had it still, But I had my twelve string that I brought my dad to get me. That's there if I did that was such a bad student. I got kicked out of two junior highs regular public school. Yeah, why did you get kicked out? Well, let's see the first time forging my parents signature, smoking weed. But they didn't really catch me for smoking weed, but they saw me smoking something. I was just a bad kids,

Like I kicked out a mallhole in junior high. Right then, which when did you go to? But I got my guitar first, I believe. Well. Then I went to north Rough Junior High and I got kicked out because I had this one of my teachers was such a bit and I was flipping her off. I was about to say fah, and I had my finger up, but the didn't even come out, and my finger was up, and she saw me and she sent me the This was like a long this is crazy ship. So she sent

me the principle's office. But instead of going to principle's office, I went with a friend of mine and stayed and ran away from home and stayed with fugitive bank robbers that were junkies for two weeks. I went hung beause I missed my cat. For real? What did your parents say about all this? They were looking I wish I was if I was at my other place, I could show you the actual thing that was in the paper about Mr and Mrs Warren looking for their daughter Diane.

Really yeah, okay, so you get a hold and what did they say? Well, no, they were happy I was back and I was happy to see my cat. They didn't they didn't they didn't hit you or anything. No, No, they were happy I was alive. You know, the funniest thing for my today's standard, I was an abused kid. My father used day with a hair bra No, that's terrible. That's terrible, but that's what happened. That's what it was.

The parents yelled at me a lot, you know. Okay, so but now you come back, aren't they afraid you're gonna run away again? No? I was cool. Then. I'm trying to think of, well, maybe I went to Juvele after that one time. I can't remember that before. And I was like, I was kind of a rebel. I was like, okay, you went to juvenile hall a couple of times, and how long were you there? For? Two weeks each? Okay, you go for two weeks. You're a middle class of bourbon night. The people in Julie. My

parents turned me in. They found pot in my room. Okay, but you'd go to juvenile there must be some rough women there. It was it silmar. It was like like I remember one girl had like what's it called sideburns? And remember the guard when I came. When I was like going through, they had roach clip earrings on. I'm like, well, I appreciate it, irony. Even then, that's a roach clip earrings on them, which I wait, was I bought from the from the ice cream man. It's all weird, isn't it. Okay,

but were you scared when you were in drew the Hall. Yeah, I was kind of like, kind of freaked out. Yeah, I tried to hide and then yeah, I kind of remember one time I had to sell and another time it was a big room with a bunch of people. I was like, see, I'm like, I got my street cred. You really could be a rapper, you really do. But but you do go you graduate from high school right, barely barely? Yeah, and then you went to junior college.

I went to Pierce Junior College for two years, two years. My dad said, as long as I went to college, I'll support you. So I went to Pierce and you were living at home. Yeah, well I lived at yeah, at home most of the time. That for about six months, I lived in an apartment, but someone kicked in my walls in my I mean broke through my apartment and long story, Okay, So then and I went back to my mom and dad's house and I went to c s un for two years. And I did then, which

is interesting. I took a lot of film kind of classes to watch history and movies just so I didn't have to do ship. So but but from that I was like watching a lot of movies, and you know, I probably learned how to two songs from movies from that. And did you graduate? No, of course not. So let's still have you wanted to go back? Now? I know they did give me a special honor when I got it.

The c Sun gave me some I don't know what's called distinguished alumni kind of thing, and I was like, hey, you guys, I used to break into the practice rooms, but thank you. But if you wanted to go back and stop, you don't. How long would you have to go back to college to graduate? Me? Ten years? Okay, so your father buys you this guitar. Yeah, that's my first guitar. But you want to know the story of

my second guitar. Let's start with the first guitar. You get the first guitar when you're how old, I think, like ten? Did you take lessons? Oh? This is a good story. So my dad took me to somewhere to take lessons, right somewhere in god what street was it. It's like Devonshire and Balbo or somewhere around there, you know, the area of valley. I had one guitar lesson and I came back the next week and the guitar teacher told my dad, Mr. Warren, don't bring your daughter back.

She has no future in music because I didn't want to do stupid scales. Gave me these scales and ships. I don't know what it was, but I'm like, I want to make up my own songs. The guy said you had no future of music. Were you discouraged? No? But that's that's me. Whenever someone says ship like that, it kind of gets me going, Okay, so you have that guitar, you you have one lesson? Then do you started making up my own songs? I started writing. You know,

I'm sure they were the really horrible songs. Right. So I'm like ten years old and time goes on. Um, you know there was a twelve I wanted a twelve string Martin guitar. Why, I love? How did you even know what a Martin guitar was? I don't know. I somehow I knew, and I knew what a twelve string was. I don't know. Um, And so my dad said, if you get nothing less than a B now, I all I had was D S. F. Sence's. I hated school. I hated and I don't even know what I don't know.

I never took math. I don't know how I even I don't. I can barely add the subtract and whatever. Thank God for calculators. Um, And my dad said, if I if you don't get anything less than a B. So one semester, no a's but kind of bees And I got the twelve string of our next semester back to the FS. Okay, how old were you when you got the twelve string guitar? Okay? How did you know how to tune it? And I still barely know to tune it? You know, I figured it out. Okay, So

when you got the twelve string guitar? Did you get more serious about writing songs? When I was about fourteen or fifty and I got super serious, like obsessed. But I'm still like that now, Like I'm just as obsessed today as I was when I was like fifteen years song. Let's talk. We'll talk about the genesis. So you're writing songs believing? What what did you say? I thought it was great? You thought you were great? So you thought you were gonna make it? I did. I knew I

was gonna make it. Okay, but wait some but my dad, I would take me to publishers. Not a little slower, A little slower. So you get between eight and fourteen, you got the Mexican guitar and you're writing songs. You're writing songs, but you're not trying to exploit those songs. No, not when I was twelve. Okay, once you get the Martin guitar, yeah, I started. Yeah, I started getting really serious, like really obsessed, and I started writing a lot of songs. Okay,

let's stop for a second. Did you have any friends, have friends? I'm more anti social. My friends that were like all going out and boy crazy you and all this ship. All I cared about was music. And so you're there playing the guitar. What did your friends think about you and the guitar and you're writing songs. Some some of my friends were really cool about it. Some

were like, you know, you know fun. You know, I'd be sitting in the bathroom because bathrooms have really good acoustics, so I'd be sitting there with my guitar, and then, um, you know, then my dad took me. Supposedly, Dwayne Allman used to pick his guitar to the bathroom. It's great, but in any event, so your sounds are great. I mean is the acoustics. You would come home from school every day and you would practice. I would write songs. My dad got me a shed in the backroom the

house where I could go. So it's like one of those sheds you buy somewhere or even like at home depot. I had one. It's it's still there at my mom and dad's house. Well they're not there, but that the shed still is. And my dad would get me a heater for the winter, one of those little hit heater, right, So I just go there after school and I'd be there like day and night. And when did you decide? Okay, I'm ready. I always thought I was ready when I was about fifteen. Okay, when I was fifteen, do you

know something called the Songwriters Showcase. I've heard that. It was like, I don't think it's around him, but John Braheenian Lynch. So they had this thing at the time, was like Capitol Records, and it was I don't remember where it was art Let Bows or something like that, but I but when I came, it was at that place that turned into a club on the second floor on Robertson whatever. But this was before I was in l a so well. I was like the youngest person

that came in there. They dodge edition you and they'd always say, you know you're not ready yet, come back, and then I go, yeah, I know, I'm ready. I was an arrogant, little asshole. And then my dad would go listen to them, you know, and they'd go, Mr Warren, wait in the other room. Because you had to audition to be on the main shop, just to and it wasn't to be a performance to have your songs heard, you know, so we wait, wait, wait, someone else would

perform your song. You know, you'd prefer yourself and I'm not not but it's not a bopping, you know. For me, it wasn't abouping. A performed was about I never wanted to be a performer. So finally they let me on. I was I was a little maybe almost sixteen and stuff and and so that was like cool, but you know, nothing happened, and then you know, something to happen, you know, I always expected something happened. But then at the same time,

my dad was taking me to publishers and things like that. Okay, so I like I I'd have meetings with publishers and they'd go, you have a lot of talent, and and my dad would say, well, if you think she has talent, why don't you paying this stuff? And it was kind of funny, and I'd be I'd be I was a little like, that's really arrogant, and I'd be like, you're gonna be sorry someday that you didn't sign me. Well,

that's probably why you made it. But I'm really good with with um, what's the what's the word you know when fighting against something? Okay, but um, how did you decide you didn't want to be a performer. I never wanted to be a performer. I would see a little i'd see the name on a record. The first one that I noticed I ever saw was up on the roof. I saw Gotham King. I go, I want to be that. And that's before I even was a songwriter, which is really weird. Okay, so your dad is taking you to

publishers anybody bite No? I mean they all said like, you have a lot of talent and blah blah blah blah blah blah. You know. Yeah, nothing really happened. And then I met a friend. Through a friend, I had my first song published, but nothing happened there and then you know, later on I met this guy, that producer, Laura Brown again and I signed with him, and Laura was kind of big and that was kind of the

first artist. Okay. So how long did you How old were you when you made the Laura Brannigan deal funk with Jack Um? Eighties like twenty three? Okay, So you thought this was gonna be your one big break? Yeah, you know, I just I've always had I've always believed in myself, like I never I mean, I might not have foreseen this level of success, but I always knew, like there wasn't a plan B. It was this a homeless person probably. Okay, So how did you how did

you convince? Tell us a little bit slower, how it came together with that guy and Laura Brannigan. I you know, I had a co manager, My friend was co managing, you know, working with the manager, and she played my song for her and she gave it to the guy named Jack White, not the White stripes, Jack right Um, German record producer, and he signed me. It was a horrible deal, but you know it was a start. Okay.

How long was the deal supposed to run? Supposed to be a five year deal, but it was a hundred percent publishing. There were things that weren't right about the deal, and I decided to leave, and he decided to sue me. And that's why I had to start my own publishing company because that's when that's when i'd had Rhythm of the Night. I had some stuff like that. But the first hit with Laura Brannigan is I didn't write well. I wrote lyrics to Solidaire that doesn't even count in

my mind. But I also wrote a song called Rhythm of the Night right, which was a really big hit, which recoup me, you know, five hundred times over. But that was when you were still with him. I was with him. Oh, I didn't realize that yourself a couple, that it was around there where where I left him, and you know, it was how did you get it? How did that all happen? Because Arista Publishing in America worked his songs and they put that together. So that

was great. So you had totally written the song. You didn't know who, I didn't know. The bars was for a movie and you know, so it was for Last Dragon, Okay, very the record hit that was a gigantic record put me on the map. That was cool. I brove it by myself. That was really cool. How did you um? What was it like hearing the song on the radio for the first awesome? By the way, it still is, you know it still is. I was listening to that. I just bought a new car. The first song I

heard was stand Up for Something. That's a recent song the Diane Road for a movie about Third Good Marshall that we hope will be nominated and win an oscar. But the nominated for a Grammy, Right, the Grammys. That's a whole another thing. Let's say on one subject at one time. But did the reversion of Rhythm of the Night correspond with your demo and your vision of the song? The version? Yeah, it was a great record. Yeah, it

was pretty close to the demo. So if you ever had a situation where you have a demo and someone's totally changed it in your unhappy Yeah, and then there's been a couple of those. But then if it becomes a hit, I'm really happy, really really quickly. I really changed my mind. Hey that's great. Okay, So how do you decide you want to get out of the deal? Well, it was a horrible deal. Um, and I guess he he hadn't given me you know what, what's that? I'm

I'm so non artific, don't know. He gave me advance, but he wasn't keeping track of wasn't Yeah, it wasn't stuff like that. UM. And my lawyer and I just didn't like the situation. And I I figured he should have probably you know, changed the deal a little bit, you know, when I recouped it a thousand million times over UM. And so I kind of my my lawyer said, well, you know what, he hasn't you know, given you your latest statement. You know, you probably couldn't leave if you want.

So I did, and he sued me. And and that's when a lot of people are trying to sign me. And I like, I couldn't remember, like telling my lawyer, like everybody's trying to sign me. All these companies says, you can't signs, it will be collusion or whatever. Um, and she goes, you need a meat for your company. You know, you have to start your own company. I'm like, but I don't want to start a monk. So you know what, it kind of worked out right, I started,

and I don't want to start your own company. I wanted at that time, I wanted to sign, you know, with Chapel or Warner Brothers or whoever, all these other people that were coming, because you thought they would actually work your record. Yeah, but now I knew no one could work my records like me. I mean, I still you know, this is still the same way now. But but so I so I I left him. He sued me. You know a lot of my all my money got tied up for for a bit. How long did it

take to resolve that? I think about a year. But I resolved at myself with them because we had to go to a court thing before. There was some kind of I don't know what that is. So basically you had to pay him. No, No, I saw him at the what's what was it? Before you go to trial? You have to go to there was some kind of thing we had to go to me. It wasn't a mediation, but it was like we had a meeting court whatever it was. And I said to him, why are we

letting the lawyers get rich? Why don't you? And I just settled ourselves literally next day I settle it with him. Wow, And just that, just that fast, you started your own I had started my own company. But just that faster everything got w don't hey, it's Bob left Sets. I thank you for your time. Welcome to my new podcast, the Bob left Sets Podcast. Remember to subscribe on tune in, iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. So you said you're the best promoter of your own song. I've always been.

You've always been, So tell her what does you know what it is? Because I really believe in them. Like, Okay, so when you were writing a song, and you famously write six days a week, right, yeah, you what percentage of the time are you writing for a specific artist? What's the time now? I'm just writing songs. A song I want to write, That's why I do it. Let's get back to the inspiration a second. But let's say the song is now finished. How do you work it?

S moms, I forget to even demo it. Some some moms, I just go on to the next song. But if I demo it and I maybe maybe I demo and I have somebody in mind. I know I'm going to work with somebody. Okay, maybe it's time to denmload that song and let's let's work that work on that. You know, so it's at let's say you have a demo song, call us the nuts and bolts of how you actually work it. It could be somebody calling me for something that that I know, like you now you're an icon,

when you we're still hustling. I still you know what everybody has to hustle. I hustle, I still hustle. I would say, we'll give us an example of that. I mean, I'll call people up and I'll and I'll you know, with the songs right for them. I don't have you know, any ego about it remotely. Okay, let's say I'm an act and you have a song you things for pitch me. I'll say, let's let's meet up. Let's talk about what kind of record you're making, and let me play you

a song that I think is right for you. And what if I say no, I write my own songs, I'll see you probably shouldn't be now. But usually but like okay, like today, you know unnamed artist, you know that that I that I worked with and a great artist someone who had who had a monster head a couple of years ago. Um, never never done an outside song. And you know we were meeting up and I go, look, I'm gonna play something. I think it's great for you,

and there's no pressure. I had two songs in mine the one song it didn't fit, but I kind of knew. So as I was walking here from the other office, I had like this, you know, kind of thing came to my mind, and now this is the song. I played it for him and I just saw the smile on his face and he started singing with me, and it was just like the way he was singing this song, and he goes, how did you know this is something I'm going on in my life right now? It's just weird.

So it's like, you know, I'm like the song Whisperer, right. You know. So now you told me earlier today that you met this artist at a party. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you met the artist at a party. How did you make it so you ultimately got together so you could play him the song? You know? We were talking and stuff and that I talked to his manager, his manager, I think his manager was with him, and I just I stayed in touch and I said, you know, let's

let's maybe we can do something. I'd love to do something, so you are not worried about appearing too aggressive or working in whatever. You'll call anybody. I don't I don't care, you know, really it's all about the song. Okay, So to what degree do you believe you're I mean, no one ever says, hey, you know you're working it too hard, stay away from me. Some people think I'm working too hard sometimes, you know, I think I can tend to

be that way. You know what it's It's like you're a pain in the ass until until you're not until they and then you're like, I love your passion. Okay, you know this is you know, this is the contradiction I can't understand, okay, in that you are very aggressive with your songs and very successful, but in your personal life you're not that way. No, I don't really have a personal life. I have my friends and stuff, but I have my own personal I mean, I don't know.

I just but but as I say, you were very aggressive in business. Look, look, I called you we we you know, because I was excited about this song, right, you know, and that could have gone either way. What if you didn't like else you could have written something something. I took a chance, you know, but I believed in it so much. But I'll make it sort of myself. I love like being here now talking to you. Or sometimes you go to an event you have a really good time. But for me to sit at home and

say I'm gonna start creating action, it did. I just would never do that. Like, if you put me in this situation, I'm good, okay, but I won't aggressively try to make it happen. I do. I like to make things happen, and I like just to But when I really believe you can't stop me, I could be annoying. I guess, I mean, I guess some people like you know well as I say, it's just the it's just the you know, the opposite side of your personality. When

it comes to you pushing the song. In your career, you're very straightforward, whereas when you're in your personal life you're more doubting, more shy. Yeah, yeah, that is just fascinating. It is weird because in real life I'm a shy person, right, like totally shy and totally insecure. So okay, after el DeBarge, what was the next hit? Uh? Maybe nothing's gonna stop us now I get weak. I don't know one of those. So how did you end up working. You end up

working with a who's who of artists. I kind of probably almost worked with everybody, and so okay, at the beginning of that, as I say before, you're so well known, you just approach these people like, how did you end up? How do you end up working with Aerosmith? That was I've done the song for Armageddon, And that was Kathy Nelson.

You know, you know Kathy, She's an interesting person. She's been behind some of the biggest soundtracks and soundtrack hits ever like, and she kind of almost created the whole soundtrack thing. You should talk to her. She's fascinating actually, um, And it was Kathy. Kathy could couldn't get any she could get any artists to do anything. I remember writing the song and I thought it was a girls song and Kathy's Kathy goes, no, we're getting Erroosmith. They're not

gonna do my song. You know, Steven Tyler is not going to do a song again, you know, a song he didn't write. I didn't wouldn't think Erroosmith would, and they did. It was the biggest hit hit ever and they're okay, So you wrote the song because Kathy wanted you to write. You know, I wrote the song for the movie. That's what I'm trying to say. You had

no connection with Aerosmith. She had the connection. She had the connection with I mean, I had met Aerosmith before I worked with him, But I mean it wasn't me that got them the song. How often is it like that? And how often is you personally? Most of the time I get I get the artist, you know, with a Degaga wountil it happens to you. I called her on the phone, played it for her Andre Common you know, Okay, okay, all that stuff everything. How often do you call somebody

pitching a song? Um, I do it? I mean every day. Well, it depends on the songs. It's always situational, you know. But I'm just talking in a week in your word, I don't know if I do it in a week, you know, calling artists or something. But I'm pitching something, you know, or they're pitching me. You know. It's like it's something's going on. Well, how much time do you have to spend doing that? I don't know. It's fine,

I'm fine that that's part of the process. Well, I guess for me, it's like like it's it's another side of it. It's just another side of my brain. But in a perfect world, I'll wake up at noon and go to bed at four am. And one of the things I say, I don't do it. I don't get up that late anymore. I get up now about okay, I get up at like six. What I hate about the business day is people are looking for me all day long, so it's very hard to be creative. Okay.

Whereas after or seven or eight, before you start hearing from the UK at one one am or so, can't you just turn your phone off? Theoretically I can turn something, yes, or they don't want to miss a exactly. And there's so many things going on. You're waiting to hear about a doctor's appointment, or you leave your phone off and you miss something. You know, it's hard to totally disconnect and get in there. I can do it, So I just say don't. I'm in my room. Don't let me

know about anything for a few hours. Okay. So if you get up at six, I check my phone. Someone really wants to find me sometimes. Okay, if you get up at six, what do you do? Like six fift I like watch the news all the insanity for about a half hour. It's about quarter seven. I just get ready. I leave the house at seven, leave the house at seven thirty, and you come to the office. I go go, I go get my coffee, my ice blend and mochus. It's Starbucks aware coffee Bean, coffee bean and uh coffee

being predated Starbucks in Los Angeles. Did I've been going I've been going seven at that office. I've been going to coffee and they know you there obviously, now they know what I know. I kind of walk, you know, and get ready. So you get your coffee and then what I read the paper, you know, which get the l A times can I go online? And then I try to be alone, but somehow someone tries to talk

to me. Okay, what are you looking for when you're reading the paper or going on, like looking for inspiration or just just reading the insanity of the world. Okay, yeah, And then you say people start looking for you, you know, just sometimes people know me that are over there, and they like come and talk to me. So you're actually at the coffee bean cats in my caring piece in my car. And then how when do you leave the coffee? Being how long do you get the coffee being minutes? Okay?

And then what happens, Let's go to work? No, No, you go to your office. I go to my office. I let my cat out of the cock, out of the bag because she's been had to get her back in the back. She gets out of the bag while I'm getting coffee and peas in my car. But that's a whole other story. Then I just go and start, I mean literally just start writing us I don't know, start working on what I'm working on, Okay, So I mean I don't write a song a day, and I'm

just usually working on a song. So are you do you work at more than one song at one time? I try to work on one, but I kind of end up working on more than one. And do you ever not finish the song? I try not to know, very very rarely try not to do something that I don't love, so I have to When I love something,

I finish it. Well, how about things you don't love, I try not to start them because I found you, so I mean I always finished because you really sometimes you're not the best judge of your own material, and sometimes you go back and look at the starts and you know I should have finished when the drugs were off, right. I finish everything I start, so I try to. Okay, So how long does it take you to write a song? Um like, I work a week on a song sometimes, Okay,

lyrics take me a long time. What's the inspiration? I don't know. You're asking about my process. I don't know what ideas? You know what the inspiration ideas? I come up with ideas like okay, but the idea, It's like some of my best ideas come in the shower or when I'm not paying attention to some of that. Or do you sit there in the in the studio say I'm going to a noodle on the piano until an idea comes to me. I don't know. I don't I don't even think about it. It's like so magical to

me that, you know, I just play. I play piano, I play guitar, I might play some chords. I might have a lyric idea. You know, I just see what happens. It's not it's hard to describe it. I just do it. Okay. I show up. People go, what's your process? I show up? Okay? So you view it like a job. You show up and you're working and seeing what's happening. Okay, and it is a job? What's the job? I love? It's my life. What? Um? What are your favorite topics to write about? I tend

to write a lot of love songs, which is ironic. Um, But no, I don't know. I just like to write because I've never been in love with Psycho. I'm in love with my cat. I really am in love. Is that weird? I'm like so in love with my How old is your Cat's? Her name's mouse? Wow? Why is she named mouse? Actually? When I first got her, she's this weird looking cat, and I go, what the fund is that looks like a mouse? So I became her name? How what's the life expectancy of this? Help forever? Because

off to die when she died? So, um, do you think I don't want to be the armchair psychologist? But do you think you're writing about a perfect world that you would like to inhabit yourself? No? You think I want to hear someone breathetical breathing? Yeah? Really? Okay? Okay, so but it's bebelievable. No, And I believe it when I'm writing it, But I wouldn't want to live it. Okay, that doesn't make it like not you know, a beautiful thing. Okay, so you so you start. You have to listen to

my cat prayer said the same thing. I could stay away and listen to her prayer. I guess that works. I guess for me, you get the unconditional love with animals, but you don't get the feed back. And I must admit I'm the type of person who needs feedback. You know, I get feedback from people, like with my music or life, well just in life. I mean it's great, you know. It's like I get feedback from my writing. And believe me, I live for that feedback. That. Yeah, you get instant feedback, right,

and it's asshole reason I do it. But it's you know, it's an irony. What do you think when someone do do you like live for the when when someone like you know, do you like does that get something going? When someone's you know, it's an asshole to you and like, you know, do you like that or is it kind of you know? I I don't feelings, I think Okay, everyone has different theories about this. I want to read

all the press. You're pretty fearless, right, I want to read all the press, and I want to read all the interviews because I want to be inoculated. I want to go. People say they don't read their own reviews, you're living in a bubble. I don't believe they don't read their own reviews. I don't believe that. I don't believe they just don't like to say they read, Like who doesn't read their reviews? So, you know, then there's

a cliche. You know that you're you know, you're as good as your good reviews and your bad reviews whatever. But when someone you know or someone writes a particular email or someone you trust, I have people that believe me. When I'm working on songs, I have I have a few people I try them out on. You know, they're going to be really honest and you've written better you know? Okay,

wait do you try out everything? Yeah? Really? Yeah? When I come up with a start, I love those people in my office that I definitely go, so what do you think? You know? Wow? Yeah, I want and I want constructive Christism. I want people to be honest. I have producers. I'll here, I'll play stuff. Could that be better? You know? Okay? How often do they say something and you say no, but they say something you say, I don't want to change it. It happens if I really

believe in it. But I'm I'm I don't have an ego about it. So if someone shows me something that's better, thank you. But generally speaking, don't you write all your songs by yourself? I do, But someone can say, like what about if you put that like, change that chord to major a minor? Here voice it this way. That's still right. I'm still writing songs, you know, but you have written songs with other people. Yeah, it's not not not many, and so what's that experience, like, I mean,

it's it could be fun. I just prefer you know my own process. I'm the same way. I mean, like you don't want to co write you. The other thing about it is, I don't know, you know, I can't even be interrupted. Like if I'm working at my girlfriend's house, I have to be she has one of these houses with their no doors and exactly through the skylight and you know it's an electric for uh, you're really sharp. I don't know, my guy, I don't know if I could go this fast with you, but it's an electric

fire you can't go through. So there's no chimney. Once upon a time it was a real fire, but it hasn't been for a long time. But I cannot be interrupted when I read about these people who work in Hollywood, multiple people in an office, and if I just can't imagine that, I just can't be interrupted. I have to get my own zone. I hide my room, right and I can't be in erupted. But yes, you want to know that you're on the right track, and it's a great residence. But I will must admit, even the best

feeling doesn't last. I know, even if I could write the best song and then the next day, fuck am I doing now? No? Exactly like I hate myself to even you have a success and you get all this positive feedback, they could be worse. The higher up you are, like the varred you fall right sometimes right, Well, then you say I could never replicate that, and then you know you're yeah, but it's like sisyphus, you know you're pushing the stone up the hill. Let you know how

I look at it. I look at like sometimes like the waves crash over like and they throw you. You swim out and they come and they throw you against the rocks. Then you know what, You wake up the next day and all right, I worked out. Now I'm gonna swim again and just try to get out farther. I have another beach analogy, okay. I you have a theory that the waves come in and then the waves go out and certain people are left on the beach.

So in the fifties the wave is beat Nick. We even had a beat Nick on tv MA Energy Crabs on Dobe Gillis. Okay, So the waves come in and then certain people are left there, Alan Ginsberg. All those people they live the rest of their lives, but they were left in the fifties. You always have to you guys, have to change with the times. You have to. I'm not sure about that. So in what I do you

have to? Well, you know, I I feel that I, you know, the wave came in and I was left on the beach somewhere in the late sixties and early seventies. I'll give you a few examples. It's like, you know, all this greed and stuff that happened in the eighties, it just it was never me. And a lot of the accoutre monts, you know, the clothing, etcetera. I understand and there's certain values like selling out. You know, I

just don't understand it. Yeah, I would rather have an artist who says no, as opposed to an artist makes a big deal because I'm believing. And that's what you know about, like really fighting for your art right exactly? You know that. And I'm sure even being the songwriter, we've gotten these lyrics. I gotten these or from people saying I was going to commit suicide, but I listen to your record all night and it got me through. You know, I've got a bunch of those. You know

what else I get? I get letters, some really weird one from prison. Here's one I just song a long time ago, call when I'm back on my feet again, and knew whose favorite song it was? What's the guy that killed his family? The marine guy? Jeffrey McDonald, Jeffrey Dalmer, No, Jeffrey McDonald. You the marine guy that remember that one? It was like a famous thing and it was a book written about it. And he got he got, he got let off, and then they then he got arrested again.

He was an army, he was a Green Beret doc killed his family. I guess his favorite song was one of my songs and then I get these letters like you know your songs saying you know I'm in prison, and I go, I wonder who he's in prison for. I come out in two thousand eighties, I get I get the ones I haven't been getting him recently but I used to get them, but no, but be get

the ones that like. And you know, the cool thing is like I meet people now like a lot, and people go, you know that Lady Gaga song, you know got me through like that song. I got a lot of feedback with guests from the I feel it's a disservice to the audience if you're being an artist. I don't mean you, I just mean a person being an artist, and they resonate for me to then wore myself out to the corporate I mean, you're living the life because

you're writing songs every day. But there are a lot of people who are artists today, very different from the sixties and seventies, where the music is just a stepping stone to some greater fame. It's kind of weird, right, Sometimes I see some stuff and like it's like like, I guess there's no such thing as selling out. Like it's like it's gone so far beyond sellout. Now, it's just crazy, you know. And every everybody with any success in Los Angeles or anybody, they all have an incubator

and they're investing in tech stuff. You know, what about the music. I'm not investing in tech stuff. What do you do other than your real estate to invest in anything only animal friendly stuff? What would be an animal friendly thing that you invested in. Well, one of the animal friendly things invested in was I bought a ranch. Okay, um, and I with the idea of saving animals. I just saved a cow and its baby from Okay. Well, where's the ranch in Malibu? Okay? So when you say a ranch,

how to places? It's like seven acres and there's like the stables, there's areas. It's really gonna be, it's really gonna be mainly for rescue. But there's a house. Okay. But is anybody there when you're not there? Yeah, there's somebody that takes care of the animals. So how many animals are there at one time? Well? I saved a horse and his baby from When you say rescued, how did that give it? Walk me a little? Someone told me about it at night? And where was the horse.

The horse was at a slaughterhouse basically, and a bunch of horses got saved, and I paid for a bunch of them to find homes. And these two needed a place, so I just bought the place. So I brought them out. So you have the horses, what else do you have? I have three pigmy goats. They're really cute. Yeah, and these are all rescues. The ghosts aren't. But the horses are in the cows and you go there every Sunday.

You have to come out there. It's magical there are You're good with the animals, Yeah, I love them because I prefer them to people, don't you I'm free to animals. Don't be afraid. They're wonderful. I guess you know you shouldn't eat them. Okay, but there I've been bitten by dogs too many times. I got bit by a dog when I was a little kid. Big I got bitten twice in one year, once hiking up in the stuff about it and you call him no, no, I mean you know it was one of my was walking to

the burrito place. Dog got loose, went straight for me and just bit me. Why I didn't want the barrito? No, I was walking to the Burrito Blaze. Another one was really fucked up. This is a high in the hills above Malibu, and so I'm hiking in one direction. Somebody's on there were hiking it? Were you hiking by the waterfalls? No? No, this is much much higher up. I suddenly can't remember the name of it. And I'm walking along and somebody's coming on a horse in the other direction, okay, which

is very strange. Normally there's not somebody there, and they have a dog following them, and the dog the horse buys me, and the dog comes comes behind me and bites me. It's this person's dog. And You're like, I'm in the middle of nowhere, so you know all these people? I didn't. I talked to my doctor about it, but uh, you know, it's like I'm just and I had I was at a dude ranch. Do you have any animals? I don't have any. First of all, I traveled too

much to have animals. I mean, if you've traveled, you an you got to do something with them. Well, if you get two cats, they could keep each other company. I guess to rescue them. But it's also a lot of responsibility. What if what if the animal dies or something happens, It's not gonna die. Just give them food in a litter. Cats are cool. Cats are pretty indie. So you only have so at home. You have cats, but not dogs at home. You don't have any dogs. I have one cat mouse. She comes to work with

me and she goes home with me. Cat issue. She's teeny, but she's cute. But I take funny pictures over I have to show you. I make her look giant. I make her look like she's gonna like. We both yawned at the same time, so it looks like we're like. It's cute. Okay. So in the time you have left, have you achieved your dream or is there anything else you would like to do. I just want to do what I do. I want to keep doing what I do to be honest, you know. I mean, it's not

one dream. I haven't you know? Okay, you're writing songs? Is there something cool? It's like Oscar, that'd be cool. Okay, But is there somebody you haven't worked with you'd like to work with? No work to so many people, But there's probably someone I don't even know I want to work with that it's not like I mean, if I can only work with some I don't know. Okay, Is there a song you haven't written that you want to write? Yeah, I just don't know what it is, but of course

there is. What I'm trying to say, is you do work. I mean, yes, you want to get inspired on a regular basis, you want to write songs. But in your mind, is there like an iconic song that you want to write that you haven't written yet? Not that I know of, but I'm sure there will be. I'm not not being evative saying you know. I mean, yeah, there's gonna be a lot of great songs I write. Well. I guess what I'm trying to say is, at this stage of

the game, do you have any goals? At the stage of the game, I want to get better and better and do more and more. I mean, I feel like, even I've been doing this a long time, I feel like I'm just beginning in a way, like I don't feel like I don't feel like a veteran, even though I am a veteran. Okay, many people would say all this change in technology, which has disrupted music since the beginning of the century, has really heard songwriters. How do

you feel about that? I mean, I think it has because I don't understand if someone comes up now and it's just streaming, I don't know how people make a living at that. Well, that's where that you're writing songs. Streaming is winning, you know, No, I know, I know. I mean, I'm I still make a lot of money and my songs still do well, and there's a lot

of licensing. So I'm talking about like someone coming up now, right So if someone like the me of now, if I just came up, you know, if I just wrote songs for people, that's a tough way right now, with with with streaming being what it is, to be honest, because the writers and the publishers, you know, and we live in a hip hop world right now, is that music that you appreciate want to be involved? And it was all right, I write for a lot of urban artists, you know, so I don't. I don't do a lot

of wrap. So I did work with Snoop a couple of years ago, so that awesome really happened. He had really good weed and I got really stone and whole pizza by myself, you know. But when I met him and we talked about doing something again. That's when he was Snoop lyon right and I go, I want you to sing. I I wrote the song called the Good Ship. It's this really cool song like kind of like like like comparing a relationship to to weed. Basically, I thought, well,

if anybody's going to do that song, that's Snoop. And so I called him on the phone and I played it for him on the phone and he like loved it, and he came over the next day and we started recording it and he's sang it and he and then he goes, he goes, you know what, I can't sing the word ship. I have to say the good good which I guess means weed as well. I go, like, I really I'm being I'm being censored by the fun the police guy. I loved it. You know, it's yougonization.

But I loved working with him. He's great and he's saying it was a really cool record. Then it was used an overstocked commercial and it was kind of so subversive the weed a weed song, like you know, stock dot com. So it was kind of funny, but yeah, it was. It was great to work with him. Any other stories like that, I have to say, think about him.

I have like so many funny stories, but I have to look like I don't know how we got to we got to we got to urban music, right, Yeah, a lot of urban stuff in the grounds this year, a lot of hip hop stuff. I think that's reflective of society at large. I mean, this is a much bigger topic. You know, people have been bitching that the Grammys have been under representing the urban sound for years, but the acknowledgement of hip hop and urban now is

a reflection of what people are actually listening to. It's the end of our era. It's like, I don't know. I don't look at it like that because I think like songs always work. I mean, in my I'm doing it from a different thing. You're absolutely right, a great song can be covered forty years later. But I guess that, you know, I hear as far as rappers, I have

common on my record, right, you know, right. But I'm saying, if I if I work the theory out music drove the culture in the sixties and seventies and then in the eighties with the MTV, music does not drive the culture at this particular point in time. So there's a lot of baby boomers who reminisce about when and they go to see the old acts and they bitch about streaming and the bitch about hip hop. They're now in the rear view mirror hip hop one. How about country?

Everything's by the way, everything cyclical, Well, the funny thing is cyclical. No, it is cyclical, but it hasn't been prior to the twenty one century. Every three or four years would be a whole new sound. It's weird, you know. It's like the same thing with fashion and how people look when you if you look in a movie from twenty years ago, they're wearing This isn't weird. Like remember like in the seventies and like everything was different, like

the air styles and the horrible clothes. But it was horrible, but it was different. Right right now, if you see a movie twenty years or even twenty five years ago, everything looks the same. It's really weird. I don't know why that is or whether it's you know, because culture has been one one music, Like exactly when somebody comes, like when Elvis came into Beatles came or Prince or you know, right or even Elton John the same something you heard on the radio and go this is it.

I specifically remember where I heard I Want to Hold your Hand the first time, sitting in my mother's falcon in the dry I've waited from falcon. My father bought the falcon used and he didn't know and was angry to find out that it was a Hurts rental car and it was the best car we ever owned, never broke. But um. But in terms of what how about country you ever right with a country artist? I've written a lot of country hits actually, okay, like like give me

a couple how Do I Live? Which was a number of Bammy winning country song for Tricio and Leon Rhymes had a you know, worldwide hit with it, probably my biggest hit. Actually, I've written songs for hits for Faith Hill and Tim McGraw just to say that you Love Me from um Sarah Evans a bunch of Tim because they're still using real songs, yeah, whereas the urban world. It's two different things. More poetry than regular songs, not

much melody, not a lot, you know. But then I could do, you know, do a hook for somebody you know too? You know, they could wrap in the verses you still want you still want a good solid chorus hopefully, So you have this song that you know, we can only you know, hope and pray that will probably be nominated for an Oscar and hopefully we'll win. I want you tell us the back story of that. Um. It's a song called stand Up for Something. Um. I wrote it from a movie called Marshall, which is coming out

this weekend. Again. They're putting it out, yeah, because because the song got nominated and they got eight A a CP awards and nomination, so there's some heat, you know. Um. And I met Reggie Hussling, the director, during when I wrote The Lady Caugus Until It Happens to You. I met he was producing the Oscars and I met him. I happened to be out with a friend of mine at lunch and she or dinner and he was and she said, oh my cousin wrote this movie on through

good Marshall that Reggie Hudlin's directing. Oh my god, I want to write a song for that. You know. That's the whole Oscar is so white time and stuffing good. Um. And so I I knew Reggie, so I called him. I said, you know again, see it's me making the move so I called him. I said, look, I you know, i'd love to read the script, and you know, he goes, yeah, we're shooting it now, and he was, I'd love you to do the song if you'd got inspired. So he sent me the script and I wrote down on the

on the script, I was done. It all means nothing if you don't stand up for something. And to me it was so simple but profound, you know, because it really is the truth, you know. And I came to the office, I say, I listened to Change is Going to Come? You know, how often do you do that? Not that I mean, not that often. But I wanted

to capture something. I wanted that song to capture, like what we're talking about, when music could drive the conversation, when you'd hear change is gonna come, or people get ready or what's going on? You know where these were all like great urban records, and but they were like and they weren't. They were inspiring because you'd hear a change is gonna come. You want to make that change right? You like hear that ship and it's like, man, it's like I feel like I could change the world. So

I want to capture that. I want to write and I already had the title, I had the idea, and I just that chorus wrote itself just like that. It was like in one take. I was like, oh shit, is this as good as I think it is? And I, you know Julie in my office, I played it for her. I said, come and tell me if this is great, and she goes, oh my god, I have chills. I go, oh, it's it is. And I thought maybe I'm stealing this because it was it sounded like it was always there.

But but but I didn't, and I came up with the verse, and I came up with a great verse really quickly, and then the second verse was like really tough, and I had the idea of why I wanted what I wanted to say, and it just took me all day to come up with one with you know, um, you do the best, to do the best that you can do. Then you can look in the mirror proud of who's looking back at you. To me, that's the best line in the song. That took like a day just to come up with that, you know. And then

so I finished the song. I called Reggie played it from I go with you know Me on the piano sounding like ship, and he goes, I are you kidding me? I have chills all over my body, goes, this is like I this is one of the best names I've ever heard. So I demoed the song and um he came over the studio here he loved it. And then I thought, you know, I go, you know, let's get Andrew day that. I thought she'd be the right thing. I wasn't even thinking she she had rise up, I

would stand up. But it wasn't even that. I just thought, because I just think she's one of the best singers like on the planet right now. And I thought, you know what, this song with would be so great for her. And her manager and I were talking and we were I think he brought up let's get a wrapper on there. I go, I don't know. One of us said common.

I'm like, all right, let's let's try for Common. A week later, I'm going to um Sundance and writing back in the Commons, sitting on the plane, so I started singing. I started singing it to him. I told him about the song. I sang him the chorus again again, you know, horribly, singing horribly, and he goes, oh my God, you guys send me the song. So I sent it Santo him the next day he was like, I had like ten missed calls from him, and he goes, I have to

be on this song. Please find find an area where I could just you know write a rap on there. So we we put that in. And then so I saw, this is a really weird thing. So when I saw the movie with the demo in it, I didn't know and Andrew was actually in the movie. She plays like a Billy Holiday character. Isn't that weird? So the whole thing was meant to be that Andrew and then Common sitting next to me, you know, and behind right behind

me on the flight. So it just kind of happened, and you know, and then you know, the record came out and and it's it's getting a life of its own, you know, right now CNN is using it, All these different people are using it, you know. Besides, you know, it's it just got nomine for an Oscar Grammy, got nominatee for a Grammy. Um, you know, and that was cool. That was unexpected. So I wasn't even saying anything, like

I kind of knew the Grammy nominations were coming. In like, I guess if my phone rings early, that's a good sign. It did, but I was awake. It was like my publicist, Um, but you girls, yeah, I've got good news, like wow, you know, because you know, you never know with any of that stuff. And there were only two songs from this year nominated in that category. It was the Taylor Swift song and stuff from last year like La La Land stuff like that. I forgot what else? So then

it's cool. How many times you've been nominated for an oscar? Eight times? How many times have you want an Oscar? No times? Did you prepare a speech those eight times? I prepared a speech last time, and you know what, it was really bad? Okay, so because everybody really thought, until it happens to you was gonna win, including me,

and it's the only time. Well no, because you loved me a long time about I kind of thought so, but not like this time because when everybody's telling you and my friend Frances Fisher, she's an actress, so she came to my hat. I'm gonna go over your speech to you. I'm gonna put it all over your house, like on the mirrors and stuff. You have to like learn it because I I kind of wrote, I wrote my own speech, was a little speech. It was a really nice speech, and um, so she got she put

it in every mirror and everything. So the Oscars the next you know, this is on a Saturday, is Sunday when she put them all over the house, I was like on the Sunday morning, like looking, you know, Sunday night. And then and and then you see that amazing. I mean, Gaga's performance was one for the ages that was was fantastic with those kids with the writing on their arms, I mean, and and her performance was it was insane, and Joe Biden introducing it and then everything was great

until and the winner is that part wasn't great? And then I have to go home to see all those things all over the mirrors and everything. Fuck that right, So what's it like hearing somebody else's name in that circumstances. I mean, I'm not gonna be like, oh, it's okay, it's fine. Now, don't know, I'm sure it sucks, but usually but usually look, usually I don't expect it. So you know, at that time, I kind of did you know,

and a lot of other people, everybody. My phone was blowing up people were like when I was walking, you know, I was sitting back, like Steven Spielberg was writing back at me like that, and he goes like like, what how did that not win? You know what I mean? So people like everybody thought that was gonna win. And if you do win an oscar, what will that mean to you? It will be really great? And and yeah, it'll be amazing, It will be amazing. It'd be really cool if it was this song. I think this is

the best thing I've ever done. Hi, this is Bob left Sets. I don't want to thank you for being a fan of my podcast. You can email me at Bob at left sets dot com and let us know what you think and suggestions were open to all ideas. Be sure to subscribe it tune in iTunes or your podcast player of choice. Next, we have Eric Brazilian, the genius behind so many Hooter songs and he also wrote one of us by Joan Osborne. You know that you

really love it. Tune in to hear those stories and the story of the making of the first Cyndi Law pre album. I guarantee you you'll be intrigued. Must be out out