Desmond Child

but that started in junior high at Nautilus. And do you still have contact with him? It's it's like one of those soul things. When you see him, you can act. But yeah, but every ten years we run into each other in the strangest places and we talked for three and then I don't see him for another ten years. Okay, so keep going. So you're going to I'm going to

Miami Beach High. And you know, I Beach High was like nine o two one oh because all the parents were either Italian or Jewish and they all built ran or whatever all the hotels on Miami Beach. So all the parents they put so much money into that school. So it was like a private school and how many kids went to the school, do you remember? No? But I was like busting myself in from the projects. You remember that movie Moonlight. Yeah, sure, those projects. That's where

we live for twelve years. And I just was going to Edison Junior High School and it was like no learning being done. It was all like, you know, okay, just the way, because did you work the angles so you could get into that school like you're living with

your mother or with my aunt? Yeah, and so I it was three busses to get there, and uh, it was extraordinary, and so on the law, you know, during lunch there was a lawn and the kids were out there smoking whatever, wandering off to restaurants where you'd see the principal in way you weren't even supposed to be off school grounds. And um, there was a a girl

and she sort of looked like Yoko. She had this long black hair and granny glasses, all dressed in black, and she was playing acoustic guitar and she was playing her own song. And you know, because my mom was a songwriter, and I guess maybe there was a kind of connection. And her name was originally Deborah Walstein, and then everyone called her Debbie Wall, and we just immediately bonded and we decided to become a duo. So we loved the name night Child, you know, so she did

Why did you like the name night Child? Where did that come from? It just it was dark and it was her mon hess and it just you know, the magic theater and all this kind of stuff. And so I started wearing all black as well, and I guess we like invented goth okay, And so we had night Child. And so in order to be night Child, she became Virgil Night and I j and I became Desmond Child and Desmond from oh blahdo bladah wow, because I was trying to think of there aren't that many Desmond's. I

was wondering what the inspiration was my whole career. When people met me, they couldn't understand that I was white. They thought I was Jamaican. You know. It was like Desmond. And I was like, what Desmond Decker. Okay, if we look at your passport, does it say Desmond Child? Now? Yeah, what does so you change your name legally? Yes? So what's the middle name? I couldn't think of one, So it's just a child, Okay. I first became aware of you with reviews of Desmond Child and Rouge, and I

bought that album. Then you kind of faded from the landscape in terms of what my visibility was. Suddenly your songwriter. How does that happen? Well, when I was in Desmon Child and Rouge, we played all the clubs in New York City and we would plaster the streets with our posters. I got arrested once for doing so, and we would stencil the sidewalks around Black Rock with our names, you know, black Rock CBS. Yeah, Desmon Child and Rouge at Tracks

because that was one of the favorite clubs. And so we're playing at Tracks and Paul Stanley from Kiss came to see us because he was intrigued, and, um, you know, we made friends. He came backstage and he said, um, you know, let's try writing a song. And it was like, I actually actually didn't know that much about Kiss. I thought that was just for little kids and stuff, and um, you know, so we ended up getting together. We wrote a song called I Was Made for Loving You. Well,

certainly that's a big breakthrough here from it. It's kind of a disco hit. Oh okay, But did they intentionally want to change their sound to that sound. No, no, I that's what Desmond Child and Rouge was doing. And I had got gotten one of the first drum machines, so I was writing two beats, this is you know eight machine something like that. You know, it had a cheesy little sound, you know, but now of course the hip hop world is using those sounds. You know, you

hear them. Crazy thing is at the rolling was like the definitive thing we thought that passed in the facts on every record. Now just blows my mind, you know. So um, well that's a little bit slower, a little bit slower. So all Stanley just sees your flyer and comes comes. There's no connection, No one's reaching out to him.

And was the flyer what was intriguing about the floor because he thought I looked kind of well, I had this kind of one of the first mullets, and uh, these gorgeous girls with you know, looking very hot around So it was kind of like that. People didn't know what to make of us. Actually, looking back on it, we was more like the Scissor Sisters. We're kind of hip and playing Reno Sweeney and rubbing shoulders with Andy Warhol and Hollywood Lawn, and you know that was an

incredible time. We opened for Patti Smith at the Lower Manhattan Notion Club, So we were inventing. Okay, so you were part of the seed that he was checking out the sea. Yeah, so we were mixing rock guitars with dance beats. We didn't think of it as disco. I mean when I bought the record, because the record refuted the rock press about the record. The record very surprising. So it was a little bit all over the place.

And within six months we released a second album called Runners in the Night, and that was way more rock.

And it was also the moment because I started desmon Chan the Rouge with Maria Vidal and we were the founders and then we added our best friends Diana Grisselli and Merriam Valley, and then um it was I was Marie and I had been together now like three or four years, and I realized I was way more gay than I was by and then right between the two albums, I met somebody that turned my life upside down, and um, I just realized I couldn't I couldn't stay. And so

that's what Runners in the Night is all about. And the first song, you couldn't stay what with her? And also that broke up the band. So that's why, you know, we had so much potential. Where does she today? Oh, she's amazing artists on her own, but we actually anyway, she's she's married to Rick Knowles and who's going to be that's hysterical and she has her own studio and she h to ask him the story. He's being inducted into the Songwriter's Hall of Fame this year. Okay, but

let's go back to Paul Stanley. He meets you backstage and the first night he beat back. I want to write a song with you pretty much. He said, hey, you guys, you know you're pretty good. We should try writting a song together. I I think that maybe his intention was maybe hooking up with, you know, one of the girls, right, so you know, it's like we're letting the fox into the henhouse, you know. And but I think he I want his respect, and so we we

we wrote I Was Made for Loving. Okay, wait, wait, first, what he said we're gonna write this? Did he include the whole band Orges? No? Just me? Because I was solely writing, I realized, But I wondered since he wanted to pull one of the girls kind of like, you know, okay, hang with you, hang with Okay, So where did you write? I was made? I went to U. S. I. R.

And Kiss was rehearsing for the instrument. Yeah, and it was the big a room with the stage and all that, and off to the side there was a grand piano with a cover on it and everything, and they all took a lunch break and during that break we sat together at that big piano and I started playing the chords which you made up on the spotter you had previously. No, I made it up on the spot you know, and this kind of like um emo kind of tonight, I'm gonna give it all to you, you know. It was.

It was kind of like um bravado. And so when they went into the studio then with Vinny Poncia a little bit slower, so you're there, they're on lunch breaks. The song finished during lunch. No, it wasn't completely finished, but you know, Paul went and ran with it with Nny Pontia, the producer. Okay, at this point you're out of the loop. I'm out. But so it was really

your input was all on that one. Day during rehearsal. Yes, and also this idea of like four on the floor, you know, you know, it was kind of like exciting. And then also at that time, big big raves were starting to happen, and it was like the idea of bringing rock to a dance. It was just eighty two, what no, this is seventy eight, sev seventy eight. We wrote I think in seven on the seven and then I think it was released in seventy something like that.

And so you know, the thing was is that I was I've always been intrigued and and you know with the idea of merging styles, you know, like trying to grab a little piece of this Pastiche and Desmond Charlon Rouge was that we were you know, we had R and B elements, we had Latin elements, we had congas, we had heavy power chords. We told stories like Laura Nero and Joni Mitchell and Nelton John. So it was

like it wasn't like all sex and romance. There was always a character and there was always this and that, and all of that kind of came together really, uh with when I worked with bon Jovi. Okay, well, well a little bit flower Okay, so you're right. I was made with loving for loving you, uh, with Paul stan Right. How long after you sit there in s I R do you become aware they're cutting it? Oh? They cut it and put it out? What like? Were you part of the loop or did you just hear it when

it came out? Yeah? I heard it when it came out. Okay. So in between writing it h and then hearing when it come out, it was months, it was Did you have any contact with the band that really? No? I thought all was good, and then all of a sudden, you know, I started hearing that my song got cut. You know, I think from Rick Albertie or Bill a Coin or or somebody to my manager. At that time it was Roy Rickson and Matthew Mark and they had Star Flight Management. Okay, so you hear the song is

gonna be cut. When do you finally hear the wreck? I think that they sent me a copy of it. Okay, did you hear it? Did it sound like what you thought the song was? That you but but better? Like it was grand? It was bigger than I could have ever Did you immediately hear it? I'm sure you're excited. Did you say this is a hit. It was already a hit. It when they finally sent me the copy, it was a hit already all over the world. Okay, okay, when did you first hear it? That's what I'm saying.

When they when somebody you don't even know? It was nothing nothing. I was like, you know, kind of in the dark, and they were too busy to think about me. Wow. So uh and you still own all your songs? Well not no, not not not like own own. Uh. There was a catalog sale that I did in and um that was with PolyGram uh Publishing, and David Simone was the head of that and my manager at Winston Simone you know are not brothers, which is on and they're

called the Simoni brothers whatever. Uh. So we did, we did that deal. And at that time, this was after the earthquake, we were living my husband and I were living in Santa Monica, and it really shook, it really shook. And I just said, and I had another friend who said, listen, Miami Beach is where it's happening. You can get a house on the water for almost nothing, just like you know,

and we I just said, let's let's do it. So we sold and we moved to UM to Miami Beach, and I was able to make my mother's dream come true. I bought her her own little mini mansion on Miami Beach. That's all she ever wanted. And pretty soon I owned four houses on the on the block. Okay, but connect me with PolyGram and selling. So then it was getting

really hard to find work. And at that point, all of the bands that I had been working with UM had started making compilation albums like best of and you know, they're already like three per act that we're already being reshuffled. And Winston said, you know, maybe this is the time to sell. So, you know, it was I was really kind of going broke, and UM, I just said okay.

And my father, who was Hungarian and lived through the Depression and in World War two and all that, he was like, grab the money, grab the money, grab the money, you know. So so I did, and you know, I think that's why we've I've been able to keep a pretty high standard of living and also sacrifice a lot experimenting with things that maybe I wouldn't have if I

was like hoping to get the next hit. Okay, just a couple of questions you sold a you sold what did you actually sold the writers and publishers share of that catalog and retained the performance income from ask Catalcy for myself. So my catalog at Aska and so then I started a new catalog before you do that? Okay, what did you do with the money? Well, had people to pay off, right, But a lot of time people get that check and they blow it completely and they're

broke again. No, I've you know, I had to pay you know, Tim Collins had always told me that he man Smarrowsmith. He always insisted that everybody pay off their houses, no matter what, even if they had to, you know, eat nothing. And so that's what I did. I paid off all my debts and created a studio, built a studio called the Gentleman's Club and started making records there. Okay, so you sold, you paid off. How much time did you buy with the money you saved? Well? What day

is it today? Today is Wednesday? Okay, so that money still you still have the rabbits. Very good, I applaud because we're in an era where mercuriois is buying everybody's catalog and he's paying an incredible wount. But I just worry about the acts who sell who might end up broke. Obviously not you. But let's go back because of my father, because you know that Eastern European like don't spend a penny. Okay,

so most people not that savvy, certainly not musicians. You have that hit in seventy eight, Okay, from the outside, it looks like you don't have another monster hit until you work with bon Jovi. No, I mean I had another hit with Kiss called Heavens on Fire with when they took their makeup off right, And so it was that song that bon Jovi was opening for Kiss in Europe,

and they loved that song. In fact, they had written us called In and Out of Love that was very similar sounding In and Out of Love, I feel my heat taking It was in the in the and and it was in the style of it. And um so Paul had said, hey, you know, because he's very kind of paternal and very generous with everyone, he's like wonderful, and he said, John, maybe you should try riding with Desmond.

So I got a call from John bon Jovi and I went out to this little wooden house the in the end of a cul de sac at the edge of like this gray brown marsh. In the very distance there was an oil refinery. I mean, this is like where they buried people in the Sopranos. And this is New Jersey, New Jersey. Yeah. And so I walk in and I'd make a left, and then on the left I could see Richie's bedroom. Yeah, he still lived home

with his parents. And there was the far faucet poster in the in the red right right, the bathing suit kiss poster led Zeppelin. I mean, I just had a quick look, and I walked into the kitchen and there's this you know, vision of look like from the Court of Louis, the FOURT with this big you know mullet and um and John was on one of the you know kitchen wall phones, Avocado green on its phone, undoubtedly with Doc McGee, and he kind of like nut looked

at me sideways and kind of like nodded. And then Richie said, well, come this way, and I had to

go downstairs into the basement, which was the laundry room. Okay, this is his parents house, Richie's parents, Yeah, and so and uh so I went down to the laundry room and it's kind of damn and it was you know, musty, and there was like the washing machine, and then there was like like I discarded for Mike, a table where they had put a little keyboard, and then there was two little buzzing amps and some chairs and that was

their writing room. So I went down there. I was waiting for a which to be sure, because you had a relationship with Kiss. They were opening for Kiss. Had you ever met them previously? This is the first time, And so I had thought of a title because you know, during that time I was working with Bob Crewe. Well, when do you talk my audience a little bit of

his history legendary. Well, Bob Crew was the producer and co writer of all the four Seasons hits with Bob Gaudio and he's a character in the stage musical and movie Jersey Boys. And so he had moved to California, from California to back to New York. And he was fabulous. I mean, he was so stylish and he's so handsome. He looked like a Viking model with this red hair and you know, tall, amazing, big laugh, and uh, somebody said you should work with Desmond. So he we decided

he would be my producer. So I spent two years writing with him. Um for me for my project, and um, it was a very it was I went to songwriting college, That's what I did. And it was very structured. It was brill building style because that's where he came from. And so he had an apartment that was just a studio, didn't have a bedroom, had a little kitchen and just one room and this studio days. Yeah, but that was just for his songwriting. He had a beautiful apartment on

the East side. You know, there was nothing on the walls. He couldn't. He was anal about that, you know, uh like white berber carpet, cream colored walls, black piano that all his hits were written on. There was a black hard bench that went with it, and an armchair, a stool that had you know arms that swiveled, very comfortable for him. And then there was a pile of of

um yellow pads. And then he would spend time sharpening pencils and so you'd get the pencil and a pad and you know, blank pad and he would not allow song to be started until there was a killer title and there were lyrics and there were things to write about, things to say. It wasn't the way I wrote before, which was like playing chords and mumbling and hoping that those mumbles would sound like something, you know, and then you kind of, oh, you know, build a whole world

around that one little mumble. I mean, when I learned how to write the other way, that's when I started having hits, because you know, I would walk in with a title, and he also taught me things like the tension of the opposites. Um, you know, so even within each line there was you know, tension of opposites. And

his rhyming had to be tight, like Broadway tight. None of this of than love, you know, enough doesn't rhyme with love, you know, it was he was like strict so and every line had to flow into the next. There couldn't be these disconnected thoughts. And like, for instance, sometimes I hear songs that it's like you this or that, and then the guy gets to the course and he starts singing. She was like, what, So Bob cleared all those cobwebs out of my mind, and so I knew

to walk in with the title. Okay, just a little bit slower, you have this ship. The bon Jovi hits aren't until really, what are you living? On the royalties from I was made for Loving You. Okay, that's covering you. Yeah, you're working with Bob Crew. Did you have a specific time you started. Yes, Well, we would meet at I think it was called Boni on Street off of Broadway, across the street from the mod this modern building where he had his studio, and it was lunch special. I

think it was like four nine six. And it always had to be Dutch because he was like in the program and he used to fly planes to Paris to have croissants with his friends. Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, had to be the program. I think of alcoholics anonymous. He's not the program, but in his own thing, he was like so overly generous that he blew like so much money on lavish parties and all that. So for his program he had to um like, everything

had to be Dutch. So I paid my my, you know, my five bucks, and he pays five bucks and we eat the lunch special. So flying to Paris for croissant was before you got in the picture. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, with you know, movie stars and you know. Did he retain the ownership of his songs. I think he did, right, I think he did okay, Yeah, okay, okay, So you went for went for lunch, you paid your five bucks. Then at one o'clock we'd have to be I'd have to be sitting on that bench ready to go, and

then we'd start. And just so I know, it was a piano bench. Yeah, hard, So both of you were sitting in front of the piano. No, he was on, yes, and he was on the stool higher up, high up. And then at six o'clock sharp, session would end and he'd leave to go to his meeting. And five days a week, almost two years, we wrote thirty eight songs together. Okay, So when you sat down at one o'clock, did one of the two of you already have a title in mind?

We'd be talking and a lot of it was he was telling stories from the wild sixties and when he met Maria Kllis on the beach in Centrope, and that night they threw a little soiree and they both sang together and like, oh, these amazing stories and the crazy, crazy Hollywood orgies and just everything. And so then some thing and something he would say would spark a title.

Is that, Oh that sounds like a good title, And so we'd write down a bunch of titles and then we pick the strongest one and start and then usually we couldn't get through that song that day, so the next day we'd pick up and finish that song, and so then the next time it was like that, Okay, once you have the title, how did you write the song? Um? Well, he explained that lyrics have melody in our language, like I just went data, see what I'm saying. So then

how fast you say it? You sing it? And the um scoring because he compared lyrics to the script. The music is a score. You make the movie first and then you score it. Because if a scene is supposed to be spooky, then you put in the dark courts. If it's supposed to be happy, then you make it sound happy. So that was how he related it to me. So in a lot of my productions, I try to make the production cinematic, trying to bring out the meaning

perfect example, like limon labla loca. When you get to the second verse, you hear a gong and he goes woke up in New York City in a fun kitchy hotel, and I that imagine that you know, whore house in Chinatown everything's red beaded curtains, incense, you know, And so the gong spoke of that like it just evoked that whole kind of bohemian you know moment you know of him just crazy. You know, she took my heart and

she took my money. She must have slipped me a sleeping pill, because remember all those urban legends of waking up without kidneys and so so okay, so I don't And then you would write the lyrics. Yeah, we'd write that. We write the lyrics for the chorus, and then once we got that, then it would speak to us like, uh, what how the verses should be, whether they should be like halftime or whether they should be in the same brick brisk manner or depending on what we were we

were writing. And so that discipline taught me everything. And that's the discipline I walk into a but but it just keeps staying on that. You write the chorus, you write the first at the time, are you thinking of the bridge? Are you thinking? Because everything depends on whether you've made that that hook payoff and everything that that supported, all the little you know, braces that that hold up

that title and pay off the title. So so you know, so times to make it really pay off, sometimes you have to start really on the down low, with slow phrases, lots of time between the things you're saying, and then usually have a channel B section that kind of starts to wind up the tension, wind up the tension, so by the time you hit the chorus, you're ready for it. You're ready for the rain to to fall, You're ready for the sun to come up. You're ready, you know,

for for whatever is being promised. And so with that in mind, you know, that's why I started having hits like okay, wait, just so I know, because thinking of all those Beatles hits, a lot of them had bridges. Assuming you do have a bridge as a songwriter, does that come later or is that something when do you say, oh, I want to change it up? I think after the second chorus. Then you have to have something to stay in the song that's worth staying in the song for

that you haven't heard before. I saw a lot of contemporary music that's just written on the same loop with the same chords. It's just cut and paste, and then it's like nothing changes harmonically, and and and the trick is to make it every time you hear those same chords go by having it sound different somehow with texture, with you know how fast you're saying things I mean and I I'm writing songs like that also these days.

But back then it was like now we had to clean the palette, the bridge, had to take us to a new place, had to modulate, had to go, had to maybe we want the last course to be modulated. So that's where we start modulating. So when you get it, it doesn't feel like the the you like this kind of forced modulation. Okay, you wrote thirty eight songs together. Was he working with anybody else or just you just me? What happened to those thirty eight songs? I have them?

And did any of them end up becoming hits? Why do you think that is? We wrote two songs and then he got me a deal at Epic Records, um, and you know, they didn't take me seriously or anything like that, and they just kind of they went by the wayside. And they weren't kind of progressive like the stuff I was doing with Desmond Child and Rouge. They were more like trying to be like what George Michael later became, like Blue Eyed Soul, and so you know,

I didn't really know who I wasn't. Also, I was really, you know, struggling with you know the fact that well, how am I going to be an out artist? No women would follow me? Who the other ones that would buy records of a balladeer or kind of romantic figure? And I remember by then I was already twenty six, so I just didn't I didn't know who I was, and I was very lost. And then remember all my friends were dying of AIDS and I was terrified, you know,

that I would be next. So had you been promiscuous? Not really, but you know, not even people that just had boyfriends or you know, they would get infected. No, I know, we all know a lot of people. The husband you have, now, how long have you been together with him? Thirty two years? Okay, let's park that for a second. You work for Bob Crew for two weeks for two years? How does it end with Bob Crew? Well, when my singles didn't take off, I think it was

disappointing for him, you know, and disappointing for me. And I was also I mean, I remember, um, we're writing a song, and remember he wrote Lady Marmalade, so he was lucky with the word lady, and so we're writing something that had you know, baby maybe, and then he said, we'll sing lady. I said I can't. I can't sing lady. I mean, even if I'm not out, I'm just not

not gonna sing lady. Ironically, I later wrote a song with ar Smith called Dude looks like a little right right, Okay, okay, whatever, and and I just burst out crying no because he was like bearing down on me. He says, you know, I don't know how I wrote all those hits without you, you know, and all this stuff. And I just like, like like droplets of tears were It's like that movie about the Little drummer, remember Whiplash, you know, right right right? I mean he was he was he was wonderful. He

was never mean like that, but he was strong. And he said, you know this is bullshit. You know, you know, sing lady. And I said I just cannot sing lady. And so um he when I started like crying, and all the frustration and maybe all the sadness of all my friends had died or everything, I just broke down and he came around. He gave me a hug and everything, and he was really like the you know, a father to me and um, and I think it was you know, I really felt like we had done our time. You know.

It wasn't like I was being you know, disloyal, but it was like I couldn't go forward with him because I had all these other influences and feelings. And remember that punk music was in the air in New York and the Cure and all of that and all of those things were in my brain too that did not fit into his world. And so you know then you know,

were part of ways. But I remember when I was producing Ricky Martin and I was doing strings in l A and he came to the session and he sat next to me, and uh, he was just like glowing, you know, just like so proud of me. You were protget Okay, when you were writing with him, did you both write lyrics and music? Yes, well I was playing the chords and kind of driving more than male lities,

and he was more strong leaning on the lyrics. But I also was was it's hard keeping up with him, you know, just like now these days when I write with people, it's like it's hard for them to keep up with me because I already I wrote it. Oh, oh that's cool. That sounds really good. Okay, we'll sing that. You know, if you can, you do it. And also, you know you're inspired, so you don't want to hold yourself back to listen to somebody's kind of Oh yeah, well you have a nicer personality than me. I I

can't handle that well. And you know, maybe why I work alone. So after Bob Crew, before bon Jovi, what's happening? Well, I mean I wrote a revolutionary song actually, which was a call I got from Jim Steinman and he was producing Bonnie Tyler after he had already had Total Eclipse of the Heart and then he time, of course legendary working bad out of hell. Yes, and so he had written um um, total Eclipse of the Heart for Bonnie Tyler, and so he said, I want you to write me

a song. Okay, did you know Jim Steinman. No, but Mike Winston did, and so it's Winston still your manager, and so you know he um. He said, Okay, this is what I want. I want the verses to sound like Tina Turner. I want the B section to sound like the Police, Yeah, and then I want the chorus

to sound like Bruce Springsteen. So I wrote this song called if You're a Woman and I was a man, and it started out with the chorus all a capella, you know, and um, it went, if you were a woman and I was a man, would it be so hot? To understand? That? A hot? It's a hot and you do what you can? If you were a woman and I was a man, do do do do do do

do right? And I was playing, uh, you know, I I love that these dreams and Billy Jean at that time, so I was came up with a variation, you know, and the song completely went, you know, from style to from the style, and so she she had it as a hit only in one country, France. Okay, just so I know the uh you wrote it? He didn't get any co writing credit, He said, you wrote it. So I solely wrote the song. So it was a hit

in France. And so when I went to write with bon Jovi, you know, I was piste off because I knew that I had a hit chorus. And so when I had the title, I came in with the title you give love a bad name? Where'd you get that from? Wait? Just one second, When you wrote the hit for Bonnie Tyler, how long did it take you to write it? Well, it took me a long time because I was trying to engineer and record everything myself. Okay, let let me

ask you a different questions. Are you the type of person uh where it happens very fast or you get the idea and then it's developed faster or slow? How do you do it? Or you do it differently every time? Usually these days it usually takes me two days to write a song, co write a song with folks that are on my level of writing, okay, And by that time, if someone could take the demo right into the studio

and just cut it just okay. So you walk into the house, Jon bon Jovi's on the phone, Richie takes you back downstairs, and you have you gave love a bad name from where I just came up with it because Bob had told me, had taught me how to write songs where the title had irony right, you know? And so I mean, were you just that the title comes to you in a shower or were you working hard to come up with something. I was preparing for my session and then I thought, well, you give love

a bad name. Love bad opposites and already the tension of the opposite. You're curious, what is what's you know? Heavens on fire? Um, I was made for loving you. That's not so much. But uh, I hate myself for loving you. How can we be lovers if we can't be friends? You know? It goes on and on. Uh. And I've been really successful with with that technique. Okay, So now you're in the basement with Richie. What happens?

So Richie brings me a glass of water, then he brings me a cup of coffee, and John still on the phone. So finally he comes down and um, you know, you know that you were talking and this and that, and I pull out the title you give Love a Bad Name. And that was my first glimpse of the billion dollar smile. It was like it was dark down there, but when that's mile head, it was like the room lit up. It was like, oh my god, he's a star,

look at him. And so he had a song called We're talking about Richie Now John, Wait, wait, wait, just to be yea yeah, and we taught chichat. Then John finally comes down and he says, he was like, okay, what do you gott I got this title, and he his face just lit up, and so I was like, and you know, so he had a song on a previous album called Shot through the Heart, and he's not wanting to let a good hook go to waste either, so he threw down shot through the Heart and you

to blame. And then the three of us said, you give love a bad name. And that was our first three fists in the air, you know, like high five moment. And uh. Then I started. I started contributing my hook from if You a Woman and I was a man because I just felt like, you know, I had that you know, kind of Jersey feeling right like because of the night. I gotta tell you funny story about Springstey night.

I met him only one time and I said, hey, thanks for all those hits I wrote, and he just fell on the floor laughing because that, you know, that upward thing, like because the night and everything and so um so uh and so I I started playing again that do do do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do on the piano, and I and Richie's was like, no, hey man, no, that's that's like that's like Billy Jean that's like Michael Jackson stuff, I said, played on guitar, but like do it like chugs,

like tight chugs. And then he went to John's second time, face lit up and the song just like flowed right out, right out, and then all of those lyrics that could not have been you know, I could not have been in that session without Bob Crewe on my shoulder, you know, you know, blood red nails on her fingertips, you know, all those descriptions that he was so good at, you know, creole lady marmalade, you know all of that. You know that's all built in, you know, to the that song

and many others. Okay, so you'll write that song. Is it all written that day? Yeah? Okay? Was that the only song that day? Or yes, that was the only thing? Okay. So then they were so happy that then they called

for another session. This time we did in New York City, and I borrowed an apartment that belonged to a friend of mine, Duck Schneider, And it was on twenty third Street or two street off Eighth Avenue, and it was just like this walk up and this and that, and there was this big old you know, broken down upright piano and where we wrote living on a Prayer? Okay, who wrote Johnny were used to working on the docks? Well, well that's the whole thing everybody brought there, stick to

to the session. But because of the time that I lived with Maria on the Upper East Side where it was one of the most beautiful times, and she worked as a waitress at a place called Once upon a Stove, and she was a singing waitress. So all the singing waiters and waitresses had like fake names. So hers was Gina Velvet. So then everybody, we all just started calling her Gina, you know, because she reminded us of Gina

Lila Bridgeta. And so I can I said, you know, um, the story of Johnny and Gina and Johnny because that's my original name. So I was sneaking myself into the song, and john said, I can't sing Johnny. People think I'm singing about myself. My name's Johnny. Was like Tommy. It was a song alike, and that's how Tommy and Gina was born. Okay, And then on that album, didn't you co write one more song? Three more? Okay? Well, it was like you give love a bad name? Living on

a Prayer and then um, there were two others. Right, Okay, how long after you write those songs do they cut them in Vancouver? Months? Like next month. I mean they were like hustling. They had fifty songs and uh. One of the great things that they did, they like invented

poloing or something. They would get all their friends, brothers and sisters from their high schools to all go into this little theater and then they play one song after the other and the kids would kind of like with their applause, they would judge which ones they liked better. They would play them live or player recording recording played the demos and they were like, okay, what do you think of that one? You know, it's like but when one was special, then they'd go crazy. They cut that one.

So because John was serious about it's like, kids have to pick this record, kids have to want this record. It has to be what they want. And he was a kid himself, he's two and so these kids were almost his age. So it was like, uh, really, And I went to one of those sessions and it was great. But they they wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote to get those songs. I mean, I think one of the songs that we wrote for that UM for Slippery was a song called We All Sleep Alone.

But John felt it was too um passive or feminine almost, and it's you know, we All Sleep Alone. It's like it had more gravitas when Share sang it because of her history and all that. And Um I was asked by John Kloner to produce Share because of my success, and so UM I had them co produced We All Sleep Alone and another song that was my from my childhood, Bang Bang, and I had gone down to Palm Springs to have Sunny bano I'll write an extra verse because

that song originally was two minutes long. So he was so gracious and he you know, I went down there and I didn't contribute anything. I just like he did it. And then I went back and I cut it and we decided, you know, I wanted to do something. So it was heavy metal with that song. So and UM that was you know, you know that's when Richie mit Share and you know that became tabloid heaven and UM.

So you know, that was like a wonderful time because you know, we had written these extra songs and so you know, I think we we had another song um that was cut by a Canadian band that they and cut. How did you feel about them leaving some of your songs off the record? I was happy they had one. Okay, So they go to Vancouver, they cut the record. Do you go to Vancouver? Went to Vancouver to do the last minute tweaking of the lyrics? Okay? And how long

were you in Vancouver for maybe like four or five days? Briefly? How much did Bruce Fairburn contribute? I was never in the room when he was producing, so this I had to like wait till the end of the night, and then they'd show up back at the apartments that they had, and then after that we'd go to some strip joint. Right. So was it as wild as they said it was? It was wild, but it was normal. Why right? Okay?

You know, So were you happy with Fairburn's production? I couldn't imagine them better, and they brought them to life like beyond my wildest dreams. And then later, of course, when I was writing with Arrowsmith, same thing. He brought the those songs like to a whole other level. I mean, that's one of the biggest tragedies in music that we lost him, And you know, it's not that often that I'm you know, listening to a song that I wrote that didn't turn out well. You know, I'm usually producing

these days of songs that I write. But you know, he like topped it, and that showed in a way that it's like sometimes having an objective person come in can really, you know, be so much better. And a good example is I wrote a song with Antonina Our Motto and Tim James Rock Mafia called Beautiful Now, and they took it to Z and I mean it was the same song and everything, but what Z did to it, he brought it to a whole other level. And I

couldn't have been more pleased. So when you work with people that have taste and know what they're doing, they're not going to create something that's bad. Okay, so the record is done. Do you have any idea it's gonna be the monster that it is? Slippery went went No. I just thought there was just like another band from New Jersey. I knew we had some good songs, and

I didn't. I had no idea. But you know, it's like one of those things Bob Crewe would always talk about what is a star and you look up in the sky and you see this extra bright star and then later you find out, well, no, those were ten stars all lined up. So he said, okay, first you have the masthead, which is the actual person, then the song, then the management or the production than the management, the pr guy, the record company, how much money they put

into it, dada. And when they all line up, you know, and someone's in their moment, fantastic things can happen, and that's really rare, and and you know, I've been part of some of those moments, and so I think the key to begin with is that the song has to really fit the arc type of the person singing it

in a very deep way. And I learned that from my acting coach, Sondra Secat, because when she would be analyzing scripts and characters and trying to merge an actor into a part, like trying to really establish, well, what is the arch type of the actor just as a person, what's the art type of the character. The closer you can get some somebody to be the same thing, the stronger the performance is going to be. Because we're hardwired. Just like thinking there's a snake in the corner, we're

hardwired wired to recognize universal archetypes from history. So you know, so I always explained this. So you have an arch type John bon Jovi, he's like the warrior, you know, He's he's like the guy next door. He's all sunshine and like go and fight for the cause. And then you have the devil and that's Alice Cooper, the dark you know, and so all those you know, archetypes are within everybody, and we love to see them outside of ourselves. Like just like in tribes, they wore masks and they

played characters because it's fulfilled something inside us. That's what I believe. So when I work with the people that are trying to find themselves, I try to like, let's get down to, like what's your arc type? Who are you? You know, there was always Venus, and then there was Gene Harlow, and then there was Marilyn Monroe. Then there was Gwen Stefani. Right, who's Medusa, you know, Joan Crawford, Madonna,

Lady Gaga, she actually wears snakes on you know. So when somebody's like close and there's it's so fulfilling, like silence of the lamps, like the serial killer, we just can't wait to see him back on the screen. So

I always bear that in mind. And usually when you when you have an instinct like that, all of a sudden, the person starts to find themselves because what happens is they get signed because maybe this kid looks like Justin Bieber, and then the competing label thinks, well, he's got the Justin Bieber hair do and maybe the same kids will like him too. So much happens like that, and they think,

well sometimes and it can work sometimes. You know, you have the Beatles and you have the Monkeys, right and so um, that's not being an artist. And I always try to tell the people I work with it's like, don't you want occur real? Like Shade, there's no one like that. She can make a record every eight years and it's a hit. She doesn't care because she's living her life, and then she writes about it and in time,

those little strands become what she offers. I mean, you want people to come to a market that's only you. That's the best kind of career to have, and then it's forever and then you're not you know, you're not chasing empty dreams. And you know that's the thing that's not taught. I mean, for the last thirty years we've had the arts pulled from the schools. Where does somebody even see a picture of a Michelangelo or anything in

public schools out there? How do they start to build the feeling of like, oh, that's my place in this world. I'm an artist, I'm here too, you know, reflect my times and also something deeper, innate that I have to do for my own evolution as a person. Those thoughts don't come into things. It's like, Okay, I love that beat from that song. Pull up that beat, Come on, come on, pull up the beat. Let's just put the chords from this other song. And but what are they

talking about there? Okay, let's flip it and make it something like that. And okay, yeah, you might get the song cut. But does it change the course of pop music? Does it matter? Does it does it heal the world? Or do something you know that's necessary for the evolution of humanity or or a plan. I mean, those sounds like really grand things. Let's happen. Forget about humanity, the evolution of that person. He chooses that career so he can bring something out that he desperately has to say

they're so rare people that are authentic. I could go on and on about this, and you articulated brilliantly, and you give me insight. Let me go to a nitty gritty that really does not square with that, but it's reality. Okay, you've had a lot of success on every level. If you're following your dream, frequently in the arts, you're starving. Many people are unwilling to starve and so therefore they

never developed their artistry. What is the key to perseverance? Well, I know because like we were so poor, and my mother was kind of like Blanche Dubois Cuban, you know, like poet, but she was also had a hustle that was like Angelica Houston and the Grifters. She dressed me up in a little suit and we she she had one dress, and we go to a cocktail party and we would troll that cocktail party for a millionaire. Uh that would you know see a built in family ready

to make him look good. Because my mother was very beautiful. She wasn't successful at it. But the hustle Okay, now you say this, you say that, so there's a hustle when you when you're born poor, you know, but I think there's something also that people know in certain genres. Who's real, who's cool, what's what's what has it? And it's you can't you can't fool people. I agree with everything. Well, let's park that, but the hustle has to be there,

not only outwardly to connect the dots, absolutely inwardly. Inwardly more important than the world comes to you if you're beaming with something that needs to be out there. Okay, that album comes out slippery. When webb, it's like an instant success, it's mega, goes on for the better part of two years. What do you think about? What about them? No? You know you're gonna get a big pay day? B

is the phone start ringing off the hook? Well? I tried to make the most of it because remember that at that time and for decades before, I don't think ever, there was an out producer, so there was a real glass ceiling. So the bands would be okay being co writer because it was inequality there. But when you're the producer, you're the boss ultimately, and you have to get in

there and dick slap these people into shape. And that's something that they just their homophobia or whatever couldn't permit a gay man to be the off of them. So for you know, I couldn't ever get one of those bands to let me be the producer, even though I heard albums they made with other producers like are you kidding me? I could have made a masterpiece here? What what is this? And so you know, they gave me the kind of what I call the weirdos, the androgynous people,

soul l artists. Um, my first production was Ronnie Specter and then you know Share and Alice Cooper, Joan Jet. Okay, no, so okay, wait, wait who did you want to be? Do you want to be a producer, a songwriter and artist or where what's the hierarchy there? No? I wanted to be a star myself. I wanted to be a superstar, but I didn't have the confidence because of my own issues, you know, and I was I was having so much

success that I didn't want to stop it. I said, well, when I'm rich and then my mother's safe and we're all good, then I'll try then then then my moment will come. But so many things got in the way, you know, and life got in the way, and I was just like I didn't in the end, I didn't. I'm very thin skinned. I didn't have the confidence, and um, so I think that. And also I was so good

at looking outside of myself and pinpointing. Well, like I could see somebody, I could see the stars around them, and then I could see the dark cloud in front of the stars. And I was good at like scraping away stuff to get to how that person could shine. I couldn't do it for myself. And so, you know, I made an album that I'm not that happy about in nine called Discipline, and I was just so desperate to be a star that and I didn't have a producer and I didn't have anybody to dick slap me into,

like what, And I wasn't out on that record. It was like a lie in a way, you know, I was. I think I'm a good singer, you know, I really, I think I've finally actually gotten good. You know. It took me a long time to really when singing connect and not try to think, well is it as good as this is that, because that's what goes through people's minds. So now when I'm you know, on the other side of the glass, you know, finally am my age I'm able to, like, you know, sing with soul, you know,

but it took me a lot, very my whole life. Okay, you write the bon Jovie songs? Do you start or your managers start getting a lot of inquiries about people and the right. Yeah, they wanted my songs, but didn't want me to produce them. Okay, so what did you do well? Like, for instance, um, Mike great friend now Jason Flam he had a girl singer that he was trying to promote, and he had heard my song, just

like Jesse James, and wanted to cut it. And I had written it for Bonnie Tyler because I ended up producing Bonnie Tyland. That's a whole wonderful story. Um, but this was a song that Bonnie wouldn't sing because she was embarrassed. Her mother would think it was too suggestive, you know, walking into town slinging a gun, smalltown dude with a big city attitude. Just that was enough to say Bonnie didn't cut it. So he had heard it

and wanted it desperately. I said, but I have to produce it, and no, no, no, you know, because we remember Atlantic Records and all that it was, you know, like that book right, you know, So I was you know, it's still like pushed down and um. And so I cut it with Share and we had a hit, you know, and um. But I think that that's how it was. It was like I have to produce it or you

don't get the song. So then okay, and then you know, look at with Alice Cooper, you know, I I produced that record Poison Poison, that we co wrote together, and I brought all the successful people I was working with at the time, Bon Joviero Smith, Jone jet Um, you know, and then he had Kick Winger and Kane Roberts and all these people. They all contributed to the record and it was a wonderful theatrical piece and that song Poison. Listening back to it now, it's like, how I'm good.

It was the first hitting Yeah, but just in terms of rock, it was like really evil sounding and it was just like exactly what his art type needed to be. Okay, how'd you end up working with Aero Smith John Kalodner who had hired Meat for Share? So just so I know, do you had not made a record for Klanter before you got the producing gig Share? Yeah, And he called you do you were you like the first what did he call and say? Were you like the first call?

Called Winston? So my manager, right new Field fielded everything and um, and we had already you know, had success with Share. But he started seeing the success of bon Jovi and all that. So and we wait, wait wait, I mean he had had success with Cheer you have no no, no, no no. He hired me two work with Share, right, and I started delivering. Okay, that's what I wanted to know. Yeah, And so then I was

having the number one with bon Jovi. So he he had made a record with them called Done with Mirrors, which was a total stiff, total stuff. And they were, you know, Tim Collins was really trying to get them all, you know sober, and the wives sober, and the Roodie sober, and everybody was in meetings all the time, and you know it was like a cult. And so he made

them meet with me. So I flew to Boston. I got brought to this big warehouse where they had the stage set up, you know, the mic stand with all the whatever multicolor scarps. But on the floor, you know, on the floor level, there were there was an army of guitars must have been a hundred guitars, all with their own straps that matched the guitar, like Sparkles, Tiger, Leopard, uh, you know, Fenders, get you know, Gibson's Unique Ones, Vintage ones, I mean all like it must have been like six rows,

you know, with twenty guitars each. I mean, it was like crazy. And then on the side of the stage, I could see the sound man that did this, the stage sound on the side, and Joe was over there and they were running a loop. They were putting a guitar loop backwards right, and Stephen was the one that

you know big you know warehouse doors. It opened up and you can see the coming through and Stephen comes in towards the door and he's you know, warm, and you know he's a people pleaser and just you know, it was nice. And so he brought me up. I still hadn't said anything, and he said, well, you know,

what do you think about this? And so Joe played the loop and it was Antona and Data and Data an donna and remind me of boogie woogie or like whatever from back in the day, right like it was harmonica or something, and uh, Steven started singing it was like Danna and Donna cruising for the lightest data and Dada cruising for the latest. And then he stood back

and he says, what do you think of that? And I said, I think that's really bad and it was like that was my opening line, and Joe like crossed his arms and he was like looking at me. I mean he poses that way anyway, looking with his head back. I squinty, looking sideways and um, you know. Uh. Stephen was like trying to rescue the situation, and I said, you know, Van Halen wouldn't put that on the B side of their worst record, and they were like what.

I just needed to capture their attention and kind of shocked them into taking me seriously or throw me out, you know, the throwing out could have it could have gone that way. And then Stephen, who's the people pleaser, said well, very sheepishly. When I first started singing that hook, I was singing, dude looks like a lady. I said, what, dude looks like a lady? And I said that's a hit title because it had the Bob Crue ring dude looks like a lady. It had everything, you know, cruising

for the ladies. What sounds that strip top down in a cadillact. We've seen that story, right, David Lee Roth, the millions of those, you know, and um but and Joe said, yeah, but we don't know what that means. And I said, well, I'm gay, I know what that means. And he goes and so so, you know, I said, bear with me, come on, let's tell the story. So we you know, I said, how did you come up with that? And he said, well, we had you know, gone after hours. You know, everybody's on, you know, in

the program. So we were having our sodas and stuff at this bar and there was, you know, at the end of the empty bar, just sitting on the end was this vision of beauty, this giant blond, teased up hair and white skin and black nails and you know, curvy and all, you know, very sexy. And then uh and so they were all like drawing straws, you know, because they were all you know, married. But there was a single Roadie or something. Okay, go over there and

say say hello. So at that moment she turns a round and faces them, and it's Vince Neil of Motley Crewe. And that's when they were like, oh, that dude looks like a lady. That dude looks like a lady. Dude looks like a lady. And that's where he came up with it. So it's really funny because because because then I said, okay, so let's write the story. So the whole verses like, walked into a bar on the shore,

her picture grace, the grime on the door. Could not have written that without Bob Crew, her picture, Grace, the grind, all the alliteration, bar on the shore, picture Grace, the grime on the door. And then Stephen threw and she was a long lost love at first bite whatever and so, which was a kind of confusing line because then it sounded like he had been with her before, and so I tried to stop it, but he loved the way

the line sounded. He wouldn't change it. And so, so the fantastic thing about the song is that a normal band would have just like said, well, and then you know, I ran out of there, you know, because you know that's just too weird. But in this song, no, this the main character stays, you know, let me take a peep peek dear, you know, I like it, like it like it like that my funky lady, and so he doesn't run away. So the second verse, never judge a book by its cover or who are you gonna love

by your lover? And if that isn't like LGBT acceptance, and it's like like, if it looks good, go for it, man. You know, you know, it's like don't you know, don't stop yourself from going with what you're feeling inside and and accept everybody and all that kind of stuff. Because later on the song became controversial because it was like not politically correct us to say the word tranny or you know all you know, all this kind of stuff.

But you know, I think if you look at that second verse which they used and missus doubtfire and the broom dance, it's like a song of acceptance. And it was like everybody in the world got a smile when they heard it, and so it brought them back. And it's funny. Uh. A few years ago, when we were doing some work at our house, like the workman came came up to me and he said, you wrote with Aerosmith, you wrote my favorite song, Do a Naked Lady. It's like do a Naked that's what he here. That was

his story in his head, you know. So I just got such a kick out of that. But when Stephen went to write his his autobiography, he spent like two our pages, two or three pages talking about the creation of dude looks like a Lady. And he painted me out to be like Juan Valdez. So well, he was Latino. He had a handlebar mustache like I was wanting. You know, it's like like a worker from the fields. That was

like whatever. First of all, I never had like a mustache on its own, not even in the seventies when it was cool, like you know. And then um, then and then he said, well, you know I already had the song written, doesn't mention cruising for the ladies? And um um. You know, Desmond contribute a few little things to the verses, but you know, and you know, it's like, well, we just let him put his name on the song whatever.

And so then Joe co Co writes his book with David Ritz and says, well, Desmond's the one who came up with dude looks like a Lady. We could not have written that song without that title. And it's like, wait a second, So I've co written my book with David Ritz and I set the record straight. But I was working with Joe and he was recording a song called Red, White and New in my studio Nashville, and I sat him down and one of my writers had written the song. Levi hummed, and so I sat him down. Okay,

this is how we wrote the song. And I told him the story and he goes, oh, I like your story better than mine, but you wrote a book about it. So I'm gonna set there. Who are you gonna believe me? Are these you know rehab rockers? Man? Okay? Did you ever confront Tyler about it? That's who I'm talking about. Tyler. No, no, no, Tyler, like you know, said I like your story better than mine. But it's like and to Joe, it's like I didn't

come up with the title, Stephen did. It's like you got it all wrong, you guys, you know, but you know it all worked out and I'm going to set the record straight in my book. Okay, So you're right there. How long did it take you to write the record? Write the song? We wrote it that day, wrote it that day that day. What did Klodner say, because he was totally hands on. Well, they had to make the demo and whatnot, and I wasn't there when they did, so it took a while for him to finally hear

the batch of songs. The next day, I walked in and Joe didn't come in. You know, he was like, I don't think he was comfortable, right, So, uh, no

one was there, not even the roadies. And I go into that big thing and there was a little keyboard like in front of the stage like butt it up right to the to the wall of the state and the stage was above us and it was like a little Wilitzer and there was like a little bench and then he sat next to me and I, you know, I started in like I do kind of like tell me about your life. What have you been going through?

Da da da da da, you know, trying to draw something out, and he said, well, I met this woman Teresa, and she really, you know, she saved me. I mean, I don't know what I was, just Tyler. This is Tyler. What I would be without her? You know, she's she's she's she's an angel, She's my angel. And then when he said the word angel, I saw those bloodubber lips and it was like Mick Jaggers saying angey real. And I said, oh my god, I have to get him to have those blubber lips just like just like Jagger

saying angel. And so I talked him into, you know, writing this song to Teresa, You're my Angel, come and save me tonight. We wrote that song literally that was forty five minutes. And then, um, I mean it just like flowed just like that everything about it. And um, that song made it on the record and it was like their second single, and um, I don't I didn't get that much played and shows and stuff till recently.

I don't know if they went back to it or not, but I did see a show where they did do it, but maybe that's because they knew I was there. But um, you know, it was like way more pop than they were comfortable with. And you know, I was really the

first outside person to co with them, you know. And and I think I kind of like almost invented a career because before, you know, it was like not cool for for bands to write with outside people, but maybe they take a suggestion from a producer who would get their name on it, but for a professional songwriter to come in like a consultant and um, you know, uh, then do that that was not a career that was happening.

And when people saw the success I was happening having you know, a lot of people that had tried to be stars or this or that jumped into that, you know, and started doing the same thing as me. And then I'd start to see their names, you know, like Mark Hudson and people like that appear on the same with the same bands that I was working with. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. So you're from Miami. Yeah, were you born in Miami? I was born in Gainesville, Florida. Okay,

your parents. You say you're father was Hungary and he literally came from Hungary. Yes, But my mother was married to an American geologist and she went from Cuba two Ecuador and then Venezuela and lived in oil camps with you know, her husband, who was sixteen years older than her. And she's you know, she looked like an American movie star. She was kind of tall, so she didn't really fit in with other more Latina girls that were smaller and

and all that. She and she was very kind of there was something about her that was androgynous, and so even though she was so beautiful, I mean, she would she would prefer talking to men. She would sit with their legs open, you know, like sit like a man or something like that. She was like that, and she was hanging around Tennessee williams Uh and people like that and the this is the late forties, early fifties in Havana. And so she she found this American and she thought

it was her last chance. She was twenty three and everyone said she was going to be a spinster. So she marries this guy who really, you know, I don't think he knew what he was getting into because she was full of energy and laughter. And then um, he had his mother who was like um, Maggie Smith, who was an english woman from Manchester, England, and who didn't speak Spanish, and she didn't like my mother at all. So my mother was miserable, miserable, miserable, living in an

oil camp in Venezuela. So on Wednesdays she would go on a ferry boat to the main little town, which is like the wild West, but there was a movie theater and there'd be an American film, so she'd go. And so one day she walked in the movie theater was empty, so she went and sat down and she it was National Velvet with Elizabeth Taylor. And then this man came in and sat next to her in the empty theater and just started looking at her. And he was handsome. He looked like Errol Flynn, a movie star,

Carrie Grant or something like that. And so they went and had coffee and they began. Every Wednesday, she would go in and then they would hook up. And so in one of those I was conceived. And so when she just to be clear, is that your Hungarian father? Okay,

what was he doing in Venezuela. He went in with immigrants that that we're all traveling around, you know, um because remember that Russia took over, so even you know, so he was hanging around with Jewish um families and he you know, he wasn't Jewish, but he was you know, like comfortable, you know, and they were all building businesses. And he started building oil platforms out of cement and

that was his business. And so you know, so you know, in those days, remember if you went to town, you were a suit and tie and all of that is this is and I was conceived on her birthday, January I was born exactly nine months later. So one day she stopped coming and he would wait for that ferry boat, and then he'd wait the next Wednesday, and she wasn't coming. She wasn't coming, she wasn't coming, and he started getting like really uptight. He was really in love with her.

So he takes the ferry boat to the other side, goes to the oil camp and they said, oh, no, they moved away. Where did they move We not allowed to give you that information. And so they had moved to Gainesville, Florida, and he got a job as a teacher at the Florida University Florida State University or whatever, and they had a dairy ranch. He bought a dairy ranch.

This is my mother's husband, John Barrett. And so my father, who was desperate, went to Havana and from little clues that she had said in their time together, he tried to track her down. So he went to the Hotel Nacional and he looked across the barney, thought he sorry, ran up to her and um, it was her sister, because they were all very similar looking. And uh, she was at that time the mistress of the dictator Bautista, this is babe, and she was like the eight girl

of Havana and um. So he gave her a letter on the stationary and she put it inside her own letter and sent it to Hathorne. And they went back and forth like that, first to Cuba, then to him, and you know, like that and uh. Then finally they agreed to meet in Miami Beach in a little hotel off of seventy one Street that ultimately was where kunan and was hiding, right was before he did the rassade thing. And that they were together six days and that was

the only time we were ever a family. Really. Yeah, in those six days, he'd already been born. I was six months old, So I mean that whole process I got. So then he felt like he had convinced her that she would leave her husband because I had his child. And so she said, she said, okay, I'll do We'll do that. She said, come in thirty days to pick me up in the farm and and that will give me a chance to you know, deal with him and pack all my things and all this kind of stuff.

So he went there and in a car that he rent a car, and then his brother was driving a U haul and they show up and she was like she still hadn't told her husband. She couldn't deal with it. She was like a wreck because she was afraid of what her family would think of her. And so he was there talking to her, and we had and the brother was taking pictures really cinematic and I'm like playing on the floor. And then the husband comes home and

he's like, who are these men? And so she was like and tear She went into the house and she locked herself in the bathroom. And then um, you know, my biological father, Joe Marphy and Mr Barrett went for a long walk, and according to my father, he was like, because they had already been having a lot of trouble and everything, he said, okay, you know, take her, take

the kid, just get out of here. But you know, my mother told a different story that she said, you can take her, but you have to leave the kid, which is an impossible thing, like he would never have said. So she refused to go, and so then they and then Mr Barrett told Uh Marphy, Joe Marphy that never to try to contact them again, to just leave and

never never come back. So then he went back to Venezuela, heartbroken, and he married um Um Holocaust survivor, and they began their family and all of that, and then, uh, you know, eventually it didn't work out of course with Mr Barrett, so she moved to Miami and then she recontacted him, but he had already married. So it's like their their ships didn't cross. But when I when I didn't find out about this story until I had turned eighteen. Really yeah,

so I thought the other guy was my father. So then when I was eighteen, my biological father insisted to tell me. So I was already living in Woodstock, I had dropped out of school, and I was, you know, working at Bearsville as the coffee boy and um making my first demo with Van Morrison's band and with Virgil night Child was going to ride High and we went to see seymour Stein and he was the first executive. We we went down to New York and he just started Siren and so, uh, he said, meet me in

New York. So I met him and it was like a Luke Skywalker moment. Says he said, do you know you know why I've always kind of come around and all that? And then then he says, because I am your father. You know, it was like it was like a bucket of ice cold water, and then everything made sense. And so from that moment on, he gave me money to be able to drive back to Miami because we were flat broke and um. Then he put me through college. I went to community college and I graduated from n

y U. Really, yeah, okay, you're in school. Let's go back to green school. Your mother ever find another guy? Oh? She had many other men, okay, but none she married. She married some how did you feel about that? It was a terrible time. Remember we lived in the projects of Liberty City, and she was, you know, working, and she couldn't hold a job more than three weeks. And she worked at Burger King and she'd come home at

night with these like whoppers that nobody ate. So we would take the tops and then throw away the bottoms and make one that was because it was they were like mushy, and that's how we that's when we'd eat, and you know, eleven'clock at night, and or it was cereal and milk and stuff like that. It was really

poor and very dangerous place. But the beauty of all these things is that I was playing on the swing sets, you know, with you know, children of all races, and there was always the R and B station that was playing, and so I was listening to Aretha Franklin whistling pickt and all of these records that were different than what would would hear on TV or all of that. So soul and all of that, it really got into into

my bones. Okay, you go to elementary school, you go to high school, you fit in you and outsider, what kind of I'm like. I went to my um, I was poor and all that, but I started growing. I started tending towards like the hippie and the spiritual cults and gurus and health food and you know all of that yoga and Rosa Christian Crucian and Sachia Nanda and I went through all of these things. And I would wear all white and then I would have like long

hair and beads and sandals and stuff. And I went to my high school reunion my fort and people came up to me and well, first of all, no one

invited me to any parties, nothing. And I started hanging around with the weirdos, the people that would eventually finally realized they were gay or artists are just like offbeat, right, and so, um, that's where I met Virgil, and so I moved to a hippie house in Coconut Grove called the Maya Family, and um, all of these things, and uh, I was never part of the rich kids, and so I didn't fit into their world. Their clothes all came from New York. They were driving their parents last year Cadillac.

I mean it was, you know. And so I went to my high school reunion and they said, oh, you know, Desmond, you were always a superstar. You know, you were so mysterious with you were so handsome and and so cool, and you were like you were like an angel walking down the halls and all this kind of stuff. And inside I just felt so like a nothing, you know, Latino, poor gay. You know, I just didn't know what until I met Virgil. And then she like gave me a

feeling like I belonged to something. We started reading cool books together and and all of that. And then then then when Desmond Child was born, then Desmond Child could be anything I wanted it to be. I was no longer Johnny Barrett, you know, that was a nothing. I was now Desmond Child and I loved the name because it reminded me of Elton John. It had that ring to it. And so I've been able to become maybe the arc type of whatever that is. You know. Okay,

so when do you start playing music? So we we started playing little cafes, No no, no where did you learn how to play? Take? And I always played piano because my mom was was playing piano. That what was always a piano in my else? Okay, do you take lessons or just figured out by yourself? Figured out by myself? Can read music now? No, even though I graduated from n YU the music department, I can. I can know

you went down y good experience, bad experience. It was a wonderful experience because I had like the most amazing teachers. There was a voice teacher, John Kune. He lived to be two and uh, he believed in me and he really helped me to develop my voice. And then there was Adina Scoville and she had invented the keyboard numerical system where you put your hands on its one, three, five and then you can play in any key and that's what Nashville adopted. She invented that in the nineteen thirties.

And she had written a book called Keyboard Technique Modena Scoville, and she was already super old, and she was teaching at n y U. And she you know, when I once I figured out how I can put my hands down and modulate, it made a huge difference because I could almost play anything, even though I mean I can't play fast songs and stuff, but I could pluck out chords. And I knew to do a seconds and force and

understand all of this. And then I had a UM, a music theory teacher that was Holocaust survivor, and she ilsa bunch and she believed in me. So made such a difference, you know, And and um to have people that, and so I wasn't want to do homework and all that, so I always sit in the front row. So I just listened really carefully, and then I did well in

my tests. I was a big believer when I went to college, irrelevant of what you did, you gotta go to class every day otherwise feel like you're not even there. And so I was good at that. And I was driving a cab, I was living with Maria in the little apartment. I worked at a sporting goods store. I did Xerox machine and she was working waitress, and you know, those were like magical, wonderful days and hanging around Reno

Sweeney because that's where we wanted to play. And eventually we opened, you know for four you know, bigger stars there, and that's that's how we became, you know something. And so we got signed out of there, uh two Capitol Records. So who signed you? Richard Landis and you know, and we were obsessed with Laura Nero. So he put us with Charlie Collelo, who was the arranger of Eli and

the Thirteen Confessions. And then I hired Laura Nero's um father to tune my piano so I could just pick his brain about Laura and and he was you know, we'd be there three hours and need to tell his stories and stories and so you know, eventually, you know, I got to know her a few years before she passed away. Okay, she was living in Danbury then, and I went to Danbury and she made me dinner. Okay, wait, wait,

but how did you make the connection? She played in Santa Monica at a little jazz club on Santa Monica Boulevard or something like that. In my place somebody's name. I think, whatever, keep going. Yeah, And so I sent back my my my business card and with a little note says I wanted to meet you my whole life. And so by the time I got home, there was a message on my voicemail. Hi, It's Laura, and it was like she gave me her phone number, and then she came over for dinner. Wow. Well was that like

it was like magical. So then it was lucky because Maria was already with Rick, and uh, Diana was there and I think Miriam was in town. And we had this this dinner you know, with Laura and Desmond Child and Rouge. And then we went to my piano and Laura sat at the piano and we started singing through all the songs of Gonna Take a Miracle. Wow, it was like a fans wild exactly. I got it. I got it. I got it. And then and then she invited me, you know, because she invited me to her

house for dinner. So I went and I imagined, like this grant remember when I was living with Maria, had this little tiny willeitz Er piano, and I kept singing, God, you know, Laura Nero write so many songs much better than mine. And she's probably on gorgeous piano overlooking riverside drive, you know, all this kind of stuff. So I go and rent a car, and I go to dan Berry and I go on this thing and you know, she lived in a prefab little gray thing that was like

a little trailer. It was literally a trailer. It was like a pre fab It was like as wide as you know, you could drive down a road right. And then she had a little part that stuck out and there was a fouton on the floor and that's where she slept, and her son slept like in a little loft over the closet. And um, she because she couldn't afford to live in the main house that she owned, so she had that rented. And she made me and I thought, oh this she's Italian and Joe, She's gonna

make the most delicious good. It was just like regular pasta with ragu, tomato, sauce, iceberg lettuce and french is dressed. And I brought a bag full of like hogandas which was you know, she loved that. So we had all the four that I had brought in with spoons and all this kind of stuff, and she had a picture window and underneath the picture window was a little will itz Er Spinett like the one I was writing exactly, you know, with the little thing, and that's where she

was writing. And it was like, wow, isn't that ironic? Okay, it's also ironic that she was straight and then she went gay she came out. Yeah, I mean I think she was. She wasn't like I think she was whatever, bisexual or whatever she was whatever. Just an interesting parallel there.

Why do you why do you think? Oh? Well, when we were listening to her music, Elien the third thing confessions, I have an interesting story because the person who played me that to begin with was Lisa Wexler, Jerry Wexler's daughter. And did you know Jerry, Yes, because he was the dad. This is when I was Yeah, but did you know who he was? Kind of? And I would? They were snowbirds and they had rented a house or maybe he had actually bought on Alice in Island, and so I would.

I would I met her because I was me and my cousin, my cousin Iggy. We would go and fish coins out of the fountain blue fountains and the Eden Rock and the dul and we were putting twenty bucks in our pocket every time we went went there. So I met Lisa and she was like the snowbird, very masculine, and you know I always drawn to this and raging people. And so she said, oh, come over to my house for dinner, and so I started going over there and the dinner uh, you know, because Jerry loved this kind

of more like being home for dinner. And you know, Sureley, Anita, Paul, Lisa, Me, Jerry, Tom Dowd, a Reef Martin m at her again in and they would be talking about the Vietnam War, the politics and how they were scheming, you know, to take over the music business and all these things. And I just wanted to stay at the table. And she would be like pulling on my shirt, like let's go to

my room, smoke a joint, you know whatever. And so she pulled me over there and then she pulled out this, uh this record actually it was Lauren NEOs Um more than a New Discovery, the first album she played for me. In the minute I heard her voice, it was like touched me. It's like, okay, that's what I want to do. That that touched me in a way that nothing ever did. Her voice was like this wailing sound, and then her picture and everything is she was like a Madonna or something.

You see her perform live, I have, Yeah, I did at the University of Miami and then she was also at the Gulf Stream. Yeah, I saw her three times. Why do you think that after her initial period she

never had more success? Well, well, first of all, she was never trying to write commercially, and it was David Geffen, her agent and manager, who was placing the songs in these amazing ways Three Dog Night and The Fifth Dimension and you know, Barbara Streisan and like so many things, and she became like, you know, the eight Girl of songwriting. But she was a very shy person. And um, you know, I think that David according to what she told me, and also Clive Davis. You know, she was at Columbia

and David created Asylum Records essentially for her. But you know, she didn't I want to leave Clive because it was like a family to her. So she just wouldn't go. And so I think David was very hurt by that. And of course what he did was he found Joni Mitchell and made her like the biggest female songwriter of all time. So and so, then I once had lunch with Clive Davis and and I said, well, what's your I asked him, you know, interviewing him kind of like,

what's your biggest regret in your career? He said that I didn't become David Geffen's partner and go with him when he asked me to go, because I was putting

out three FT records a year. I couldn't understand his business model, like twelve albums a year, and so it just he'said, I just didn't get it, you know I And so he says, that's my biggest rea rhet and I just thought, well, like wow, And then I started to think about it, and I thought like maybe David was still trying to say, if I could get Clive to come, then Laura will come. I got you, So you know, I hope you know I'm not speaking out

of turn, but that was the math that I did. Okay, what's your favorite Laura Neuros song, Eli's Coming Emily Okay, um, beads of Sweat, Um Christmas and my Soul. I have to say that that's that's the one. And when when she died Desmond Child and Ruth sang that at the Beacon Theater, you know, and in her tribute and um, you know that song is just so great. Mine is Captain for Dark Mornings. That okay. So so today, Desmond,

what are you up to today? Well? Um, last year I decided I was going to perform again because I want to, because I just had to. And so I got all my friends together and went back to New York and found a club that kind of remind me of Reno Sweeney and it's called Finstein's Einstein's, as I say, I know, Michael Finstein did a podcast with him, um and um it was underneath fifty four below and I think it used to be like the orgy room or something where the drugs were all taken, you know, with

Houstin and Liza or whatever. In those days. I was never able to get past the red red rope, not that I really tried that hard. Um. And so we I recorded those three nights and um then compiled it together to be this live album desm Child Live that I've you know, put out on b MG, and um, you know, I'm just you know, it feels it feels

so good. I mean not all the songs that I ever we're hits were on it, but I sing a lot of the songs that became popular that I collaborated with with Aerosmith, bon Jovi and all that, and um, it's you know, it's it's kind of it's kind of homespun. It's not slick. It's like it's just a live cabaret room. But I'm very happy with it. And um, I mean I opened the show with Laura Nero song The Man Who Sends Me Home, which I dedicated to my husband.

Of course that didn't make it on the record, but at I have it in the cans whatever and so um. And then I've been writing my autobiography with David Ritz and it's called Living on a Prayer, Big Songs, Big Life with David Ritz, and it's it's still I think Thursday, we're gonna make one last sweep through it and get it up up to date. And you know, I haven't been able to find a publishing deal yet, and I was thinking just printing it myself and publishing it just

like Amazon or something. That's a whole separate conversation. I don't know what to do. Um. I had some you should talk to If you want to do it yourself, Jason Flam did a children's book which he heavily promoted itself. If you want to go that route, get ahold of Jason. Yeah, yeah, Lulul Dog because we have a bulldog looks almost like

Lulu's sister. Uh so, um, so I've been working on that. Um. I've been working on a Broadway musical called Cuba Libre, and it's the true story of my mother's two very beautiful younger sisters, Baba who I spoke about, who is Bautista's mistress, and the youngest one, who was the revolutionary in the family and she became Castro's lover after the revolution. So we have two sisters to dig taters one island.

And so I've been working on it with David Sigerson for since we started looking back, since two thousand four. Are we coming to Uh yes, I mean We've worked for many years, um developing it with you know, producers, Broadway producers, but then they got busy with other shows and this and that, and finally I think, you know, we have a new resurgence that's coming and hopefully we'll be able to start putting it up on the on its feet. But you know, I put everything I've got

into that. And also have another collaborator, Andreas Carlson, who co wrote a lot of the songs for the Backstreet Boys in and Sink back in the day. And I met him and when he came to see me, because he was on a kind of pilgrimage to meet everybody or anybody that he ever saw their name on a kiss cover. So I was it. So we sat and we we just bonded, and he started telling me about oh Town, and he started telling me about lou Perlman and what he was doing there with all these boy briends.

I said, wait a second, this is like the idol maker, this is like this is amazing. This could make an amazing movie. Right, So then we always talked about, you know, how we would do it. So then when Luke Perlman got caught perpetrating one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in history and then he goes to jail, like, the story just got better and better, and so Andreas like maybe and I like eight years ago we bought the rights to a book on the subject called The Hit Sharade

by Tyler Gray and then we bought the right. We option. I would say I didn't winn't buy the rights. We option the rights uh to an article in Vantage. Then ay Fair called Matt about the boys. And so we finally have amazing partners. Ed pressman, pressman film, um Greg Basser who was with Village Road Show uh and now he has his own company, Gentle Giant. He's Australian David Anton,

he's a you know, high end brand marketeer. Andreas and myself and um Heather Winters who's one of my close friends since she was the producer of the executive producer of Supersized Me. And so we are now moving forward to try to you know, get the director. The money's called coming, it's all doing. It's a scripted film on

the subject. And I think what happened was that I would come to l A and you know, I write with different people and then you know, before you know it, all of a sudden, there's like six people on the song. And then maybe you could get Selena go Mess to maybe cut a song. But if it's not a single, then it's like all that effort, the trip, everything, it's just or it doesn't get cut at all. And I said, you know what, I want to be a buyer, not

a seller. I want to decide what songs go into some big projects, and I want to put on you know, music, and I want to write things. So that's what had gotten into my head. Doing a musical, doing a movie, um, you know, and I have other ideas you know that I'm pursuing. And it's fun. It's really creative too because I always wrote for archetypes, so I'm writing for characters and um so this uh but the it's called trans Con Theoretical Airline. The movie is called trans Con The

Making of lou Perlman and the Boy Band Revolution. Now. Uh so if someone calls you to write, co write today, you will say, um, well, like who like an artist or like other pals you know that are an artist? An artist? Well, you know, there's some really great artists that are young and and I listen to them and if I feel that spark, I will write with them. So in Nashville there's some new artists that I'm you know, kind of working with and developing. But I'm also meeting with,

you know, an artist that's already making records and touring. Um, and so I'm like I will meet, I will write, I will you know. I'm just I just don't put myself on a pedestal. The only problem is when the person doesn't have writing skills that it's like playing like Serena Williams playing with Grandma. It's like, that's not that's not fun for me. And I don't think the best thing comes out because then I impose everything on that other person. They may not be able to pull it off.

And how often are you doing that? That's my day job and I'm I'm like, I'll be going to New York to work on my Broadway show or come out here and doing I'm you know, yesterday I was running with for the last two days with Rock Mafia, and you know, we had a hit together with Z called Beautiful Now, so you know we we're doing good. And they welcome me so beautifully. That's that's because I'm not there in their face all the time. I come every

few months. They're always happy to see me. And then Nashville, I have my own studio and all that and people are coming and um so why Nashville, there's a game? Man? Well after we had you know, after after nine eleven, see I go from tragedy tragedy earthquake. Nine eleven, I had like twelve people working for me. It was the Ricky Martin machine, and so Ricky lives six blocks away, so we had four studios going and and engineers assistant engineers.

We were right on the water. Our cook was cooking for ten twelve people every day, you know, lunch and dinner. It was like a machine. And then after nine eleven, the record companies. On the one hand, I didn't want to pay too because remember the file sharing and all that. They stopped letting people come and rent apartments or stay in hotels to work with me. And also people were

afraid to fly, so now I spent. Then my my children were born two thousand two, and so we had a problem because the state of Florida wouldn't allow my husband to be a legal co parent, So that was that wasn't good. And so I had four houses, I had my mom, and and it was like I wasn't working and the things I was getting were real like kind of sea level artists. Just to keep the lights

on and takeing on. I said, I'm wasting myself. It's this isn't And at the same time, American Idol started happening, so I started spending so much time in l A. And and Clive was nice enough to put me into with Kelly Clarkson and Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood and

and Fantasia and all this kind of stuff. So I was working for Clive, but my family was in Miami, so you know, I kind of said, Okay, that's it, let's just go back to l A. And you know, Max Martin had moved to l A. Everybody was moving to l A. And it seemed like, well, maybe I can jump in like that. So we bought a house and in Montenito, next to sam um Um Will Smith. His like property was like stones throw away from ours.

It was four and a half acres this house, and it had a waterfall, koy ponds, and it had all this kind of stuff. But you know was after our friends all had fun at our big fifty foot pool, then they stopped coming to hang out with us. So we started to feel very isolated. So we moved to Santa Monica and we had a glorious time because the kids went to like a preschool called Little Dolphins by the Sea, and we met so many lifetime friends there,

it seemed like okay. And then finally the market that we had bought a house in Center Market, but the market had really peaked, and we said, because we had always had our little cabin in in in Nashville, I said, let's just sell. Let's go to Nashville and Curtis. We also got scared because a lot of our friends that had teenage kids, you know, going too high private high schools, they were all already in rehab once or twice, and we said, do we really want to raise our sons

here with these dangers. So Curtis, who's from Missouri, you know, and his we can drive to his his mom's house and all that said, know, let's go to Nashville. And we've had a beautiful life there. We really have. Okay, a couple of things. Two songs you're most proud of Weird with Hansen, because that's the song that I feel reflects them where you know, I feel you know, it's like when you're you're feeling different and then kind of getting to the place where you know what, even the

prom queen feels different. You know, she everyone looks at her, she thinks, you know, everybody thinks she's so perfect and she's the most insecure and so it's one of the most beautiful songs, you know, continue and um, it's it's inspired by Burt Backrack and the lyrics of haw David.

So I'm you know, I feel that song. And um there's a song that I wrote with John bon Jovi called you Want to Make a Memory and I sing it in my show and I love that song because you know, uh, my life is so much I mean, I'm still friends with my high school friends. It's about you know, we have so many memories and um, I don't know, maybe that's kind of a maybe the age that I'm in looking back on my life, retrospect in my book, all this kind of stuff. But the idea

of making new memories, you have to make an effort. So, you know, we get our friends and we all found this little island in Greece and we meet there every summer. We're going now for our twelve How many people go, Oh, they come in and out, you know, but we stay there for a month and then we stay at the most fantastic It's Mama Mia, right, and you're on a cliff and everything, and uh, you just forget about the world. You start leaving your phone in your room, you start

not there's no TV. Uh, you stop looking at your computer, and you start making a life for yourself and you start peeling away all of this stuff. You know. By the end, it's like, oh, there's just two more days. Really, can we change our flights? Can we stay longer? Because you know, you you start getting in touch. And then our kids, who tough guys. I don't know how they turned into such jocks. You know. My son's Roman and Nero named after Lawer Nero and y r Oh. I

never saw jockey or jocks. I mean they will they vowed never to see another Broadway show. Yeah, they will not go. They will you know, hell no, we won't go. So we we started them seeing like you know, Billy

Elliott in London when they were four years old. You know, it was like um and so they like, you know, they when we're in Greece, they turn like little kids, you know, because they see the other European children hugging their parents and stuff, and like when we're natural, it's like and then when we're there, it was like they just run like like in packs. They become like little kids and I just love that about being there, Okay, And what do you think about today's music? I love it.

I mean I love um the inventiveness. And you know, it's like necessity, you know, because the budgets are you know, they give you Okay, here's five thousand dollars and now deliver your whole record. So what is it? Invention is

the daughter of necessity. I think people are making the most out of samples and things and and actually bringing into a high art form and I applaud it and I think it's really good and it's more egalitarian, like you can make a song today tonight and put it out tonight before you'd wait two years for your single to finally appear, and by that point it's out of style. And so uh, I just think that this. I'm not afraid of technology. I just love it and I'm working

in it. And what about melody? Melody? That's the thing. It's like with these cut and paste things, I think people get too lazy. And also they don't dig deep enough into into the lyrics as much as they could. I mean, I love urban music because lyrics are so important to it and the inner rhyming and a literation but I'm just talking about you know, pop music that has you know, urban riffs and stuff like that. It just doesn't sometimes feel like it's deep. Like I love

Halsey that song, you know without me. I just love the sound of that and Billie Eilish and like all of that, and the way that they're those productions are there so sparse and they make the most out of nothing. They're like Japanese haikus or something. I see it like that because and I'm like back in the day, the King of Walls of Sound. I love, you know, I listened to Love Deluxe like over and over again. I

never get sick of it. It sounds like it was done yesterday like today, and when somebody's doing true art, it's timeless, and you know, I'm always striving for that. And so I love I love the music of today, and it was someone who's creative. What inspires you, well, you know, I I think that when somebody some some people have natural talent, you know, they're just anything they touched, they like, they'll turn that box and all of sudden they turn it on its side, and all of a

sudden they put something on top, and it's art. They have the eye or they have the ear. Those people are so rare, you know, because we also live in the world where everybody wants to be famous. It's like you can be famous for nothing and you're just cute and funny or something, and you can have billions of followers. So I think that when somebody walks into my office and they have it, it's like I come alive, like

I get it and I feel it. And so there's always somebody being born who has it, and so, but it's not that many because it's a rare thing. Before, when Clyde was putting out three fifty albums, you know, in the seventies in every genre, you know, that was the Harvard of Music, you know, and you know, it was like wow, and you'd listen to those records over and over and over again. Now it's like it sounds it seems like people are putting out three songs a second.

I think they are. I mean, it's almost impossible to to wrap your head around it. And and of all that, what really is essential? Really, I guess people find it and then it touches them, you know. And so if it's moving people and inspiring people, or even if it's not inspiring people's making people mad. I think that's it's bringing out emotion. I think that that's worthwhile. But you know, the who knows where the world's going, right, it's it's

going so fast I can't keep track of it. I just want to be as I heard Dolly Parton once say on TV. She said, well I want to be an active participant in the entertainment industry. And there we have it. Desmond, thanks so much for doing this. Has been wonderful. Thank you. I feel like I've been in therapy the whole time. Well, hopefully it will benefit you as much of my audience. Until next time, This is Bob Left says