Dennis Arfa

things that he said. Um, but the one factor that I thought should be addressed was how the agency game is affected by the buying game of major touring companies. And a lot of times the one say an artist is repped by a Live Nation a G A lot of the artists don't see the need to have to pay the same commission anymore because a lot of the services that they provide are now provided by the promoter. So the A game, the A list, A lot of agencies have been affected by this and therefore it's very

hard for them to maintain that commission level. Therefore, the A game is very much threatened by um, you know the big bucks that the major promoters pay out. Okay, you're the agent from Metallica. Metallica made an overall deal with Live Nation on their last big tour. As the agent, did you still commission Metallica or you squeezed out? Yes, we still and we still have a relationship, but our our relationship was directly affected by their relationship with Metallica.

Just to be very clear, you're talking about your financial relationship. Yes, that's all the financial relationship. Okay, So when someone makes an overall deal with a G or Live Nation, what services does the agent still provide? Well, you know, it all depends on the agent or the agency I mean some agents. I mean sometimes the agent just gets a free ride. I mean, may do the routing, may participate in putting the packages together, may have overall marketing viewpoints.

But um, many times, um, you know. But but certainly the agent isn't going out there and most of the time making the building deals, the agent isn't going out there. And you know, and um, basically a lot of the agency skills are negated by Live Nations or a G. Okay, just in terms of your experience, not only your own agency. When people make the overall touring deals with a big corporate entity to most of them keep the regent or most squeeze their agent out. I mean sometimes sometimes the

agent gets squeezed out. Sometimes the agent gets you know, um has a limited roles. Sometimes the agent tries to act like they're very involved a lot of times. Uh hey, there are there are promoters within Live Nation who go to their touring their national touring partners to buy acts locally, not necessarily to the agents. I mean, there are promoters who actually just buy within the their own their own

promotion company to be able to secure acts. Okay, just to be clear, every level of act or just the superstars. Uh well, I would say, uh that can exist for every level of an act, but superstars certainly uh are numero uno. Okay, let's let's just assume whether you're getting paid or not, the Live Nation or age is promoting the tour. Do you think that they do as good a job as what an independent agent would do making deals? Well, let me put it here this way. Most agents are

booking agents. And if I was managing a superstar band that could sell out basically every arena or stadium, I would probably not need the agent because most most promoters are more fluent and more educated about what's inside a deal than an agent. Many of the agents is uh, many of the agencies are in a volume business. They don't have the time to be into all of this detail. They don't have the time to focus on all the

nuances that really go inside a deal. So if I was a manager and I had a superstar act, there's very few agents in the world that can actually, um know where all the bodies are buried in all the deals you can count on one hand and not only know about it in America, but Europe, Australia, around the world. There's very few agents you can count on one hand that booked the world. Okay, so let's assume you can you do a better job than the big corporate entay,

and what do you do differently? Well, I can certainly, um, I have the ability to do as well um as anybody. I mean, you know, earlier in my career, I remember one time I had a superstar film agent in the dressing room of one of my artists and he says, oh, I'm not hitting on the artists money. And it became my goal to never have anybody a promoter. Anybody can say, I can get you more money for your artists than you can. So I made it my business to become

an expert in the touring nuances. And then you deals and all the ancilliaries. There's the gross and then there's the gross gross, and I become a student of that game. And I you know, so when we have deals with some of our artists, Um, if you can do better than me, then you're losing money. Okay, let's just say in a perfect world, the band is offered a deal by a major entity, or they could go market by market using you. Which would way would you say to

go me? Because because I have an overview of the whole world. Again, there's only a very few. There's a few promoters that have an overview, but very few have an overview of the whole world. And so I would um, and you know, and then sometimes it depends on what flavor ice cream you like. Some like vanilla, so I'm like chocolate. You may like somebody else as opposed to me. You may like somebody else's personality, but at least we

can compete on an equal playing field. And there aren't many that compete on that playing that that that elite playing field, um that you can. You know that that that most can compete with, and I think there's very few agents and there's very few promoters on that level. Okay. Now, if you're the act, Live Nation is writing you a check, it's their obligation to sell the tickets. Whereas if you

go market by market, anything could happen. Okay, you could have a cancelation, you could have a COVID for some reason, sales or weak. So if you're saying, hey, I'm gonna sell by market by market, someone else might say, yeah, if I take the lups some I'm guaranteed. I'm not quite clear what you're saying. I'm trying to say is let's say I'm an act and I'm going to do a thirty day tour and Live Nation offers me X They're gonna pay me that, irrelevant of how many tickets

are sold. Okay, they're guaranteeing me that. Whereas if I go market by market. Are you saying that you can equal that guarantee? Sure, no problem. Sure, Hey I can sell it to Live Nation or a g okay and be the one still overseeing what's going on, and I still listen. I live with Live Nation and a G all the time. They're my partners and and and and many of my deals. But it's but the quarterbacking comes

here from here, not necessarily from them. I may be directing how my artists should be presented, not having them tell me how my audis should be presented. So I am directing the game and were yeah, using um, you know their strengths and and and and so um. That's the difference is I can work with them, except I'm quarterbacking as opposed to them quarterbacking me. Okay, a couple of questions. Let's just assume go back to that thirty

state thirty day tour in America. Live Nature Age will say I'm writing you a check for X. Let's say you're saying the act, don't take that check. I'm gonna go to independence market by market. Okay, assuming you do that. If you add up all the guarantees, will those equal the Live Nation guarantee. It doesn't have to be either or it doesn't have to be independence. You can have the same result, and you can you know, working with Live Nation or independence or a e G or um.

You know you can have that same result without having to give up control. So that's what I'm talking about is control there your partner, and it takes a village, but you don't have to give up control, as opposed to somebody else buying the tour and they took control. They're determining which Marcus to play, They're determining what the prices should be. They may consult you, but with me, it's tries to try to be it's the other way around. I'm quarterbacking. Okay, let me try to drive to a

very small point here. Let's say you're you know, Pink Floyd led Zeppelin, and you're gonna get back together where you think you're you know, you should go clean absolutely everywhere all over the world. Okay, can you make more money making individual deals than you can if you take the lump sum? You can? You know? Um you know. When uh the Metallica deal went down, I was asked to review the deal and tell and tell the management

whether the numbers were right? With these the right numbers that we're getting, Are we getting what an act of superstar caliber of Metallica? Are we making those kind of dollars? And the answer was yes. But I could answer the question, Okay, if you're making an overall deal, but I can break that.

I can break that down individually too, you know. So when I see the markets in the cities and I see what all the deals are, I then under I can take a look at it and say, yes, you are making the maximum out of these cities and out of these venues, or you're not. Okay if you're making an overall deal. Generally speaking, whether and there's two categories, you and the full of other people who understand everything. Are you leaving money on the table to have a

guaranteed sum. I think there's a risk reward. I think you know, I mean I I don't think of it. Here's what I'm aware. If I'm leaving something on the table, I'm aware of what I left on the table, and I'm aware of what everybody's making. So pending on what your risk is to me has a lot to do with what your reward should be if you if it is.

There are promoters that will offer artists and no guarantee, and they basically throw every side back into the deal that they're gonna make, but they're not taking they're not taking much of a risk except paying the venue. Course. Now, somebody who's guaranteeing somebody four or five million dollars a

night or whatever the number is. That's taken a risk, so they may you may let them, you know, um take a greater a greater profit, so you really So that's that's up to the the the artist, the manager, the you know, the agent who has ever involved to make that decision. But at least you need to have the knowledge of what the whole picture looks like it before you can decide what's the fair game to play. Okay, you talk about this knowledge and a handful of people

who have it. As we go forward, no one's gonna live forever. Is this going to be a lost art or will there be new people with this knowledge? Are we talking about people are just agents or managers are promoters? Well, we're talking about people who don't work for the big corporation, whether it be individual agents or individual managers. I listen,

it's a skill set um that one can develop. And and you know, if if you in my opinion, and there are people who maintain artists without for that are superstars and they have a relationship and make money with people for a long time without having the skill set. I just think, um, having The skill set doesn't guarantee you maintain or you even attract new relationships, but I know that it's it's a very important tool in my box to be able to be successful in moving forward.

Is having the skill set? Um, you know, my agents, I try to share information and for them to develop the skill set. And I've been fortunate. I've had some superstar racks that I've needed to have the skill set to be able to maintain my relationships. Okay, you talk about this skill set, tell me a couple of things you learned where people need to know. Well, the the skill set is, as I said, is at least certainly in the skill set. From a financial point of view,

I think there's multiple skill sets. I think you as an agent have to have a real sense of being a promoter. You have to understand how you want your artists and how that your artist wants to be represented in the world. So I think the I think the skill set is having a promoter a mentality. I think a skill set is understanding the markets, understanding the difference between Atlanta and San Juan, Puerto Rico and San Francisco, and and and and understanding that and understanding the climate

changes in different markets throughout the world. And then it's developing a skill set. I mean, if you have a band that can sell out places, um, everywhere in the country or or the world, you you need to develop a skill set to know the maximum dollars that you can make. Now, there are countries and there are places you're never gonna see what's really behind, what really exists

in some of these kinds, some of these venues. And if that's the case, the only thing I can do is is really try to secure as much money from whoever I'm selling the day to, whether it be the venue or a local promoter. But I don't know. I think the art of that skill set to some degree has been lost, certainly in the big agency because a lot of them have territories. A lot of them, Um,

you know, the the requirements are different. But I just feel that as UH as an agent, as a representative of an artist, you need to know, um, you need to have this information so that they can be able to get the most from from you. Otherwise they can go somewhere else. Okay, what are some of the markets where you really don't know what's going on with the money. One of the markets I think, you know, it could

be China. I mean, Japanese is not necessarily easy to go to Japan and you know, try to see Japanese backup and know what the what what the actual costs are. Um, you know, I'm more South America could be relatively difficult sometimes. Okay, you talk about being able to see all the costs. I have sat with the promoter with two sets of books, but they're showing the act in their real net do they actually you have to guess what's going on in

their books. How much information are you actually getting and

how you're getting it? Uh I listen, there's no there's not any more sequence anymore in terms of all the ancillary where where all the money is, Because if you go into a venue, I mean, you know, there's the peanuts and the popcorn, and the facility fees and the ticketing rebates and the and the sweet tickets and the unmanifested seats and the parking and these are all the things you calculate, and everybody has has different economics in

their particular facility. But uh so this is there's there's a lot of information. I mean again, you there's the gross and then there's the gross gross. I mean I have to actually played buildings, gotten a hundred percent of the gross, you have to tax and have had the venue make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just for the uninitiated, where did they make that money? Uh? Ticketing rebates, UH, facility fee, UH, merchandise UM, suits, parking UM. Trying to

think what else? Uh you know I might have what in general? That's that's that's kind of the uh the base. Okay, let's go back to when we start to have consolidation in retrospect? Was consolidation in touring concert promotion good or bad for you? In the acts? I'm not talking about the deals where the making overall deals, just in general in terms of money and how the businesses run. Well. It went from a millionaires business to a billionaires business

is what really changed. It existed before it existed with concerts West and Jerry Wine troub and so you know when Jerry weintraud basically in concerts where they had a tremendous domination and of superstars and and a list artists. So basically they were doing it. You know, prior they had the Zeppelins and the the b g s and you know, all the Elvis Presley, all the A list. So it really just continued and it was just a

buy up of a lot of the major promoters. But it went from a millionaire business to a billionaire business. And and and now Concerts West and Jerry Winintroud have been replaced by Live Nation and a g well need Let's say Live Nation is a company that worth it is worth billions public company, but has the money trickled down to the acts and to you? Yes? And you

attribute that too. I think that Live Nation to maintain their domination, has to pay the acts because they need they they need the inventory to feed all their um you know, their sponsorships that they need to feel to feed their business. And I think they're very good at um uh yeah, at taking care of the artists that they that they acquire and represent. Okay, staying with sponsorship just by owning or controlling as much as Live Nation

does they make these overall sponsorship deals. Do you just have to shrug and leave that money with them or with a superstar? Do you try to get into some of that money? Well, again, you know, if there's a million dollars on the table, and you know where there's a million two with all their money, you make your your deal with how much of that million two can you get? You know, It's like they don't necessarily try to hide what they make. They but so that's your

negotiation with them. It's like anybody it's say, hey, this is we're making a million to a night. You know, that's your negotiation you with them? How much of a million two is yours? What's your negotiation style? Some people are screamers, some people who are quiet. What do you do well? You know you're listen. Competition, you know, competition is the best. I'm not a I'm not a screamer. Was probably more of a screamer in my early days.

I'm not a screamer or a calculator, uh, trying to calculate or what's the best strategy and how I can make the maximum dollars. I also want wants to promoter. I want them to make money. It takes a vility. Everyone's gotta win, so I approach it. The artist is my first concern. My acts have to win and they have to feel that they're making the maximum money. But but the promoter live nation a g they gotta win too.

So so you look at the pot and again go back to risk rewood, what are you risking and what should you be rewarded? And now there's sometimes that that equation is very much in the favor of the promoter. Sometimes it's very much in favor of the artist, especially if the artist doesn't, you know, sell the tickets and the promoter takes a risk and they lose. But most of the time, Um, but but if you but your job, I believe is to have the knowledge about how the

pot is getting divided. But you have to know what's in the pot before you can know what's divided. And my thing is, how many of us really know what's in the pot? Not in not that many? Okay, In the old days before rolloups, frequently if you had a losing date, you would give the promoter money back because you have to be in business with them in the future, whether it be other after the act wanted to return. It seems like nobody gives money back to Live Nation.

It's a public company. What's your take on that, Well, that's true. I mean there's a certain security. Um, you want to work with people who are financially solvent, I do, I mean, I don't want to be looking over my shoulder, Uh, concerned that my artist isn't gonna get paid. And and if there is that kind of risk, then I need to share that prior to making a deal. And and and payment terms are very important in a negotiation, but being solvents is very important. I don't want to really

be looking over my shoulder about being paid. And it happens very rarely now, it happens once in a while. And uh, but you know, prefer to be with people and then and and if I'm not sure if somebody we just asked them to pay the money upfront, qual of it. Okay, let's assume let's start at the beginning. Let's talk about the stack things you know innately but not everybody does. Let's assume you're still you're representing a

superstar client. Do you ever tell the act I think you should go on the road or you're always waiting for the manager to call? And what's that conversation as far as what the timing is of recording, of of touring, Yeah, it depends. I mean, uh, you know, I feel that I have the ability to Sometimes people ask me what my job is and I sometimes describe Sometimes, Um, I build the car, and sometimes I just put the gas

in it. I have the ability and the talent to build the car, but sometimes you just want me to put the gas in it. So sometimes the artists, they're telling me, the manager is telling me what they want and that's all. Then they just want me to route a tour. They just may want my opinion on certain things. On the on the other hand, an artist may say, put it all together versus show us what you would do, show us where you would go, show us who you would work with, tell us the venues you would play.

So it's just a very individual thing. But you know, I having the ability to build it, to build a car and have now or sometimes like I said, put the gas in it. Whatever you need. But but I kind of have a menu to offer in a perfect world. What do you prefer? I would generally, uh if I think so, you know, listen, I work with some very very bright people, and um I have uh, you know, I have a kind of a philosophy. It takes the village and if you function as an island, you die

as an island. So I prefer to function as a village with people. And you know, some of these some of my artists have wonderful input. My I worked with some managers are very bright. They don't have to have my particular skill set, but they have different skill sets that that that I need for the artist career to be complete. Okay, in the old days, everybody paid ten percent. You know, everybody's looking for a discount today. So what's the deal there, especially with your menu as services? Well,

I mean, you know there are times. I mean, we had one client who came to us from another agency, you know, look for a deal and ended up paying us more because of how much more they earned with us and they didn't with that previous UM agency. So you know that is hey, you hopefully people will pay you for what you're worth. Sometimes people overpay you, not a little bit to my but and there are sometimes

I get underpaid. But hopefully UM the artists and and and their team will recognize your value that you add to the equation and we'll pay you for it. Well, you said someone came from another agency to what degree today? Is their radiant poaching other other agencies? Oh, I think that that that exists always quietly. I know people will deny it, but that's a lot of bullshit. I think there's a lot I think there's I think internally some

of the agencies this poetry within there. You know, there's a lot of paranoia, you know, but but you know poasting always exists. I mean, you know that's the d n A of a lot of agents. They see an opportunity or sometimes I'm I could be uh, I can represent an act and I'm hearing about another agent constantly knocking on the door. It's it's it's there, it's seed.

Be naive to think it's not okay. If you look at the agency landscape, you know, the big cahunas W M, E, C A A. Then in a tier below you have U, T A and Wasserman and overall I'm not talking good better otherwise, but your footprint is smaller. What is your pitch to go with you as opposed to these larger agencies. Well, as I said, I you know, uh, we have a

worldwide knowledge. I think we're experts and the and the and the touring business that we are the uh, maybe the only agency on a lot of levels that can really compete with the promoters in terms of of of what that what an artist can make. I mean I sat with one superstar agent from one of these agents agencies. And he said to me one day at all one he says, I wish I could do what you do. I wish I had the time to do what you do. And um, and the focus because I got a thousand bands,

I gotta be a friend too. And you know, I always say a man with a thousand friends has none. You can be everywhere and know every deal when you gotta you know your your your job is to be an ambassador a lot of a lot of acts. It's very difficult to focus on of this kind of the kind of detail you're talking about. It the big the big agencies, the big agencies. Yes, and you're saying that

so one of the pictures irrelevant of the veracity. As you go and see any A, W M A U t A, they can say, WHOA, we're gonna book your tours, when we're gonna get you in television, we're gonna get your sponsorship. What do you say to that? Sometimes? Yes, sometimes now a lot of times it's a big air game. I mean, you know, I spent five years in my career at William Mars. You know, at a different time, and there was there's a lot of there's a lot

of air to it. So that's that's the game. I mean, you walk in there, you know, with nine agents and different film people, and sometimes the team really works, and sometimes it's just an air game, and sometimes people get disappointed. Hey, one of the problems. You can be at one of the major agencies and maybe it's maybe it's the literary agent that's that you go, this person is done. When I was at William Mars, there was some very uh, you know, there was some agents that I represented, some

very big artists in the film and television business. Some of them were quite capable, and some of them will lose and um, you know, and and sometimes you can get stuck with somebody from another area that you don't really want and you don't really think is you know it has it's good and it's bad. But uh, you know a lot of it is there. Sometimes it's not, and it depends what the artist needs are. But there aren't many rock stars who become major film stars, that's

for sure. How much of your business is servicing as opposed to just doing the work, showing up at gigs, calling people, sending presents. Is that important or is just the nuts and bolts important. Hey, some people have survived very well showing off, bringing gifts, uh, sending presents for the kids. You know, it takes all flavors and sometimes

that really works. That is not what I could depend and that's not my number one skill set, so if I had to depend on that, But I've seen others, and I've seen other successful agents basically thrived that way, and I think it's amazing. I couldn't do it, but I think it's amazing. So let's assume you have a band that does good business for a year, if they're not going on tour for another year, how much contact will you have for the manager or anybody else involved. No,

stay in touch, absolutely, but it's certainly. Hey, the artists want to know the landscape. They want to know new information, they want to know who's doing well. They want to know, um, what's what, what? What you see in the future for them? Absolutely, try to keep them informed new things that are going on, new changes, gossip. Absolutely, well, let's talk about new changes. Let's talk as we speak right now, COVID and the

touring landscape. What's your take there, It's pretty fucked up. Um. I think that the indoor situation is very concerning at this time, and in the fact that, uh, putting shows on sale right now is a very difficult climate. It's uh, there's a lot of people don't want to certainly sit indoors next to um, you know, in a in a closed quarters. So the indoor business is slightly altered and the outdoor business not as much. But it's very concerning. There are a lot of people who will not sit

at a concert. So you gotta you gotta anticipate you're gonna lose some percentage of people going on sale now it's not it's not a normal what what what? What was a normal on sale? It's not a normal on sale at this point. You know, if you sell out an arena, you might have been able to sell out too. If you you gotta figure you'll gonna lose ten percent, you can lose twenty, you can lose five percent, but you're gonna lose some percentage. This isn't an ideal time now.

We we all need to move forward, so sometimes we have no choice, but it is. It is a more difficult environment and climate right at this moment than it normally is. Okay, so we're talking today, what do you see for the next couple of months. I think when kids start to get vaccinated that will help loosen things up.

I think the world in general is very difficult. It's very hard to plan a worldwide tour now though some are doing it, but it's very difficult in terms of what countries are going to be open, and a lot of times we're just we're winging it. We hope it's going to be okay in March or April or next September, but it's it's it's still a crapshoot right now. There's nothing that's defined that you can Hey, Australia, I've got a tour in Australia that was supposed to happen last February.

That's now maybe it's supposed to start in March. That now maybe moved to next March. So how do you plan a tour? You know, it's just it's it's very difficult. At this point. You just have to I think you have to just be prepared when the bell rings to go. And then there are sometimes some artists are going to dictate to you what they want to do and they say, let's go, we want to go in the spring. We want to go in the summer. We want to go in the winter, and it's a craft shoot. You may

you may try to, but you may not get there. Okay, artist comes to you looking for your expertise today about touring within the next three months to a year. What do you tell them? You're better off at this moment, Uh, if you can play outdoors. I would suggest that for the late spring summer. I would suggest that I would just say, uh, and you would lose most probably some percentage of business being indoors. And you go and you take a big risk if you want to be indoors

in January, February, March. The first quarter. I think the first quarter of this year is is pretty screwed up already. I I think it's uh, it's it's there's there's just an element of risk and and and the other problem is you go city by city, you have different rules everywhere, and the rules changed. It's such a moving target. I'm going here, I'm going there. No, you're not going this this mandate so hopefully I can't predict how the virus will you know, uh, but the life of the virus

will be. I don't think anyone knew or believe there was a delta variants eight weeks ago when the show started going back on sale. But it's just, um, it's just a very it's it's a crapshoot, you know, and some people are willing to take it and move forward. And you know, it used to be like let's go out and celebrate on the road. Now let's go out and survive on the road. Okay, in the old days, you know, you tend to I'm talking about going back a couple of decades, people toured all year. Now a

lot of stuff is concentrated in the summer. What's your take on that. Well, you know, there's, first of all, there's more opportunities in the summer because of the outdoor events. So that's that's why there's a greater concentration obviously, whether it's um UM fairs and you know i amphitheater shows and festivals. Hey, whether whether when the weather is available for shows that that's why there's always um you know,

whether it plays a factor in opportunity. And so when you get to the winter, I mean people can create indoor that you know, trying to indoor events, but it's it's it's much more difficult. It's much easier to have a rib roast and in Ohio and you know, and somewhere, and so there's just a lot more opportunity. And that's why there's much more touring in the summer. What about the issue of the on sale date and how much money people have? Let's start with on sale date. Used

to be concerts. You know, it could be a couple of weeks, the tickets would go on said nothing go on sale two years before. What do you think should be done well with COVID? I mean, you know, you know, I'm a student of this game as well as uh you know, um, I practice it. I watch what others do? I mean, I watched I watched the Elton John on sale where he actually went on sale in cities and play in stadiums and cities where he had arena dates to play prior. That was amazing to me, and he

did well. So I learned from that. Can you really do that? Can you really pull this off? Can you? And nobody really knows prior to what happening when you get to gauge what the public does. So I'm a student and I'm always observing what I see, and and and and and all of that feeds it feeds my brain as far as how how to move forward. But so right now, on sales, it's it's, it's. It's a very unusual time because of the COVID situation to be able to say this is how on sales should be.

I mean there are times, I mean I might think of going on sale six weeks in advance, which which we haven't done in in third thirty years. I might think, now, let's go on sale six weeks for a show because our window was open, where before I would not consider that, and I would consider being on sale over a year in front because the window was open. Now also, as time goes on and the COVID situation hopefully gets better, there's gonna be a on of shows. It's gonna be

a cluster funk out there. Okay, let's see. Let's look pre COVID pre COVID it what's a reasonable amount of time? Uh, the on sale before the Deep plays three four months? You can go on sale October for a February show. And what do you think about the the acts who going on sale like a year before? Uh? Listen, there's no one formula that guarantees you success. Uh, listen a lot of times and when I say three four months, that's America, Europe. It's very natural to go on SAILI

a year in front. So you know, there's different parameters for different countries. What's what's the norm here and what's the norm in Australia is very different sometimes, or what's what's the norm here? What's the northern Germany? So you just acqui acquiesced to what the population and what the habits are of that particular country. Okay, so there are people say, hey, I want my day to play earlier in the summer because the kids are going to run out of money. Do you think that's a factor. I

think that's a factor. I think there are a lot of factors, I think, you know, but that is absolutely a factor. How much competitions in the market, who else is coming you know, all of you know, yeah, all of this is a factor. Um. Oh, you can live in a city that's being supported by uh, you know, a major company that's moving out, and there's a lot of factors. But that go into an on sale competition is probably is as fierce as anything. How many other

artists are going on sale in my genre? In that city. Speaking of genres, you made your bones in the rock world. Certainly in terms of the Spotify top fifty, rock isn't even there. What's gonna sell as we go forward? Well, I think pop is the only thing right now that's moving the needle. I mean, it's uh, if you right now, you can build a career on cont having enough pop hits.

And what I what I've observed through the years now that they used to be you would be a team flash and you'd be gone, and that doesn't exist anymore. It's you have enough hits. Britney Spears justin Timberlake, Spice Girls, these Backstreet Boys, new kids on the block. These artists have super careers, you know. And they were pop artists that that, and they were Steen stars and then in the earlier days they would have their running they'd be over.

Now the audiences grow with them, so uh, there's no longer that uh, you know, so pop to pop today some of the artists Bruno Mars for the rest of your life, paint to paint for the rest of your life.

These people have careers the rest of their lives. There will be people seeing them in forty years from now and they are the new Billie Joel's and Paul McCartney's and you know all you know, these kind of artists who have tons of hits that most of them will sustain and carry an audience with them for for a lifetime. What about the hip hop business, I think that will happen also. I think some of the you know, Travis Scott, he could have a career for you know, uh, I

think his following will stay with him post Malone. I think a lot of these superstars, these people people grow up in a certain period of time and they identify with the culture at that time, and that's what they remember and and and then twenty years go by and that's what they you know, that's what they remember that they went out with their girlfriend and they met here and they went you know, and that's the soundtrack of their lives. And so I really believe a lot of

the superstars will will sustain for a long time. Okay, let's talk about ticket prices. On one extreme, you have the Stones who completely flex price, it's almost like buying an airline ticket. Then you have other acts a doll tailor's we are trying to get every last dollar out of the market. You have a superstar act, what do you tell them? What are your protections? Metallica has certainly not wanted to overcharge or even you know, play it

what the market will bear. You know, it's an end festival. The artist controls the picture. I I make suggestions, it's if if you know, it's but you have to know sometimes when you may hit a wall and you may say you know. The dynamic pricing is uh. I think a very important feature to now be part of an on sale so that you can maximum eise or dollars when you put a show on sale. But I really believe if you and people will flex and reduce the price. And but in general, I feel you want to max

the dollars. I'm not comfortable. And again it's up to the artists, but I'm not comfortable trying to have the public being the one to horror as many dollars and be that kind of uh, you know, solicitor. But again I work for the artists, and if they want me to maximize every dollar any which way, I will do what they want. I will share with them my thoughts about UM, about potentially hurting your fan base UM, and

maybe they'll care. Maybe they won't. But all I can do is offer my advice in my opinion, But it really is up to the artists and what they want me to do. Knowing knowing the uh, you know the position. So you talk about high prices, do high prices hurt the AX career their fan base? It can? We'll go a little deeper it can, you can? You can know it can? I mean, if if you're pushing, I mean, if you're gonna go push five fifty dollars, let's a ticket or you know, you know whatever, and that's what

you're putting out there the public. You're gonna you're gonna hit a wall and then you're gonna not gonna sell tickets, and uh, then you're hurting your artists. So there's different ways people try to disguise how they might do it. A platinum v I p there's uh, there's all kinds of ways to be able to obtain the dollars without

necessarily prostituting yourself. So I am not a believer in prostituting yourself if you um, and I'm also you know, but but the goal is to try to take as much money as you can and not leave it on the secondary market. I think dynamic ticketing, I think the V I think there are platforms that we have that help you to take in most of the money. Okay, so those would be you know, V I P. Platinum. What else helps you take in most of the money. Aisle seats. I think aisle seats now is a very

big income earner. A lot of people would prefer to sit you know, four seats in and would pay extra money. The uh you know, there's so there's uh, there's there's many different ways to maximize Hey, dynamic, dynamic pricing can can basically get you with the market bears and uh so I would find that, you know, again, I'm not in favor. I mean, some people will sell the first two rows a thousand dollars and and and that's fine,

that's kind of unique. But and I and I think it's fine that you know, but I think I think, I think you want to avoid the image that you're prostent do it to yourself. That's all. Whatever works within the confines of your artists that that doesn't prostitute yourself. Okay, you and me both know that the fees are outside of the deal, so that the act can't commission them. So ultimately Ticketmaster or whatever ticketing company takes all the heat.

What is going to happen with the fees going forward? Well, I mean I don't know ultimately where ticketing goes. And uh, I mean I you know, I have the fantasy that one day that the artists will be able to have every artists will be able to have their own ticketing and be able to charge their own fees and do it directly and be in control of that pick their ticketing company. I mean, I would love to see us have our own ticketing company and and choose that going

on sale. Let's kind of out of our that that doesn't exist yet, and I'm not technologically advanced to know how eventually about to happen. But the until certain bigger things change in the overall um scaled I don't believe. I believe the fee game will continue as it is at the moment, but it's going to take a bigger picture to change it. As an agent, how much power do you have over the fees? And do you ever have acts who share in the fees? Yes, we have

acts to share in the fees. It depends on the act. The act is the power if you've got a superstar act, you can, you can, you can participate in a lot of revenue. It's it's like if you're selling out a venue and I'm walking into your venue and I'm gonna sell out forty thousand tickets, that's that you have building power and you can. You know, there's a lot of money to be made for the buildings and so sometimes and the venues and the promoters, so in order to

have you, they're willing to give up for it. About an act, it's further down the food chain where it's actually a negotiation where you know it's not going to go instantly clean in the stadium or an arena. You you have, you have, you have less, you have less um, you have less power or um negotiating strength. In those cases, Hey, a lot of times you know you haven't acted. Let's they can do. Hey, you know sometimes you are a real to negotiation as when you guarantee again, it's first reward.

So I if I get them, if I can sell them all, I deserve I deserve it all. If I can't, I don't deserve it all. I mean I have artists that don't expect to make as much as some of my other artists. That's all they know. Well, this is a superstar. They will get this more than I will. However, I can at least tell them what the scoreboard is and try to get them as much within their ranks as they possibly can get, knowing what else is left on the table. Okay, let's go back to the beginning.

Where are you from? I grew up. I grew up in Bayside Queen's basically. And what did your parents do for a living? My father was in the garment industry and my mom was a homemaker with four boys. Four boys? Where are you in the hierarchy? I was third. I have a younger brother who's ten years younger than me, so I was the baby for ten years. Okay, and

you graduate from high school, what's the next step? I went to NASA Community College, finished NASA Community College, and two an a half years I met a I met somebody, a dear friend of mine, Corky Abdo from who used to play in a local bar band when I went and I used to go see the band. I was nineteen years old. He used to go to the club see the band, and uh we met at that I

didn't know he went to Nassau Community College. But we met at the college and I was kind of a little lost in my world, and he offered me a job to be their roadie, which I remember bringing home a van with equipment in it and uh my dad says, oh, you're a movie man, and uh wait wait. What they learned for me is that I really wasn't very good with my hands and that I had a gift to gab. So about six or eight weeks later, I became their manager, which was really booking clubs in Long Island and New

York City. And that's really how I always started. Okay, and were you a big music fan before that? I was a music fan. Yes, as a matter of fact, when I would when I first went to one of the clubs and I had a job, and I said, wait a second, there's music, there's girls, they're getting high. This is I could do this for a little So yes, I was very attractive as a matter of fact, when I realized that I could actually do this for real, and I I was all in. I have found I

was very fortunate. I had found a passion, and um, I wanted to be in this game. I wanted to play on a major league level, and I was, uh, you know, I was very committed. Two I was only the start for it. That's basically where it's at. I was, did you starve? Yes, basically I was. I struggled for a long time. I lived on unemployment. I you know, I had I had jobs in the music business. Um. I went from uh when my origin goes. When I was nineteen, I worked with the Salvation Maybe. Um that's

how I met Billy Joel by the way. They opened for Billy's band in the Hamptons, and Billy and I had a vibe with each other. He was we were both lifeers. He saw me as a synergetic kind of guy and I and Billy was kind of the star are in his in his band, the Hassles, and I thought we could do something. And anyway, I went on from there and wait, just wait, once you start managing, school is done. School. Yeah. Once I got yeah, I lost. I think I peaked in the eighth grade and uh,

I think it started going downhill from there. And by the time I was in college, I really didn't have a lot of interest in college. I didn't uh you know, it was like I didn't have another place to go, but I didn't really have UH, I didn't really have a path. I was kind of lost. You're managing Salvation Army Band, You're right, and you're going to uh you

meet Billy Joel. Then what happens? Well, you know, I eventually got myself a job at this company called Universal Attractions would still exist, and they were really an R and B agency, and they wanted me to be like the White Hippie Department and go find bands. And I actually really found this band called the Frost, who were from Michigan. And and so I was about one and

I was managed and I became the Frost manager. I went out and saw them, and I'm coming from this agency and now I was being a booking agent and Universal and here I am meeting this band, the Frost and became their manager. And I was twenty one years old. And I remember we played Cobo Hall, which was the arena at that time in Detroit, and we were second on the bill because they had a real big following in the state of Michigan. And we were second on the bill. It was three Dog Night and uh, Frost

was second. And there I am a Cobo Hall and this is kind of but I liked this but it was a little bit over my head, but I um, I was kind of uh So what happened is the band eventually broke up and there was a guitar player named Dick Wagner who was in that band, and Dick and I. Dick and I formed a relationship and I tried to put a band together with Dick Wagner, one of the drummer from the Salvation Navy and Billy Joel. Billy came down to one session and that was it

and he moved on to his own solo career. Dick Um and myself and we had this guy, Gregor Rama from the m Boy Dukes. We formed the band called URSA Major We try to we we hearst recorded and just when we were going to run out of money to keep the band alive, a producer named Bob Ezram showed up and UH did an amazing, amazing job producing their record and we were signed to our c A and UM, But at the end of the day it

didn't work out. We disbanded and I ended up getting a job at twenty three making a hundred bucks at an agency called Sutton Artists, and UH the biggest contemporary act was all Over Gut three at the time, and again I was like, go out there and you know, and find acts. And what they did let me do though, because in between this experience I also promoted concerts at Sunny New Balls, where I met my white money. You're promoting concerts. Where's the money coming from the Sunny Pool?

You know what happened is um my, my. I go back to my friend Cooky. He he found two dentists. They gave us twenty five thousand dollars to promote concerts at Sunny New Balls. And this goes back like seventy three. So I bought Frank Zappa. I overpaid. I overpaid for everybody. So I lost the all day of money and and but I did make relationships with the people at New pal To eventually at Queen's College, and they let me be their buyer, buy their concerts and paid me a commission.

And the agencies at Sutton they let me do that to subsidize my salary. And what I kept doing is buying Billy Joel because now Billy had a hit single and had uh you know, and and we had a connection and a relation ship and he was with another agency, and I was like, Jesus, I really want to work with Billy and and when I heard the Piano Man album, I was just I mean, I was blown away. I didn't know that this guy was talented. I knew he was something special, but I didn't know he was this special.

So I was kind of blown away. I was a fan. I thought it was an amazing artist, and I really wanted to work with him. And that was one that was the way I kept going was I kept buying him. I kept seeing him a Queen's College, at Nupolt's and you know, we continued, Okay, so you're buying, You're staying

in business, You're buying Billy Joel. Keep going, so I I I. So I stayed in touch with Billy and um, I'm working as Sutton Artists and I seeing Billy and you know, one day I went up to his house and he told me, uh, you know, I should go speak to his wife Elizabeth at the time and uh and at the time it was a kind of an

ironic thing that happened. There was a festival in more Self, France, and Jazz Festival, and we represented for Man and Tony Williams lifetime and so, and Elizabeth was working on this festival herself, so we both went over to southern France and we didn't go to the festival. We went to

Santo pay together. And I knew at that weekend and now Billy's career at that point he had this was he put out his third album, is kind of not really making them, you know, taking him to the next step, and there was internal change going on and uh, and that's why Billy suggested I meet with Elizabeth and and Uh. Elizabeth and I spent the weekend together and we became

close friends. And I knew that weekend I was gonna be Billy's agent and m On August sixteenth, nineteen seventy six, me, Billy and Elizabeth had a mock meeting in their town house and we both voted for me to be the agent, and me and Elizabeth voted for her to be the manager, and I left Sutton Artists. They wanted me to be in business on my own, so I started. They were home run management and I was home run agency at the time, and that's how my career second. Did you

think you're up to the gig? Yes, yes, I was as Gary Busey said to Joe Cocka one night when I was there at the Greek Theater. Success is when opportunity meets preparation. I was well prepared. I understood. I was somebody. I was a student of this game. I was a sponge. I understood what to do. I had a philosophy about what to do. Uh. You know, it was like and nobody knew me. I was a nobody, so it was like, why are you going to this guy?

I mean, you know, and uh, I remember one time they had me meet with their attorney and he just quizzed me to see if does does he know he's doing And the answer was yes. And I had a philosophy when I started with Billy, was like, we're not opening for anybody. You know, if we played fifteen under seats, if we played two thousand and open for anybody, you go headline, because when you go headline, they'll come back

and we'll get the next time. So that became really there was a real philosophy about how to how to do this. But I was prepared. I was prepared for an opportunity though I was only one who knew it. Okay, if you did, you're on a home run. I mean, you have your home run agency. It's a very tight network. Are you on a percentage or to give you a

salary discurse? Yes? Now, Actually, um, when I first started, I went from like I think I was making a hundred fifty and I went to to five hundred, like on Friday and making a hundred and fifty on Monday and making five hundred. It was like I can get rid of the toyota. I got a cougar. I moved into the city from Queens. I mean it was a life changer, but it wasn't you know. I wasn't like, hey, you made it, but it was the beginning of of seeing a new world. Okay, you have the home run agency,

when do you start signing your acts? In addition to billion who were there, well, we I ended up signing Phoebe Snow and Harry Chapin and Garland Jefferies and you know then and and then, um, I I got the Beach Boys and uh actually he was doing quite well. And then I lost the Beach Boys, and I lost Harry and and the uh in nineteen one. You know, um, I was I didn't know if I could um sustain

an agency sustain a business. Elizabeth was now out of the picture, and so, uh probably out of fear of not being able to sustain myself, I went and worked at William Mars five years. Okay. It was Billy cool with that. Yeah, okay, So did you approach them or were they to approach you? Uh, I don't remember how their relationship worked out. I was available. I had have been approached by others before. But uh I remember though, Um I was at William Morris for about three weeks

and I had a body tremble. It was like it was like it was just it was just the wrong fit. But it was very educational. For five years, I understand learned a lot as far as how it worked, and and you know, a lot of the bullshit. And you know, I met some very wonderful people, and people became stars in their fields, and and uh I and I learned a lot of the bullshit that existed there, and and and the bureaucracy and and and and and how these

guys were. I remember one time when I was gone and I ran into one of the senior agents on a plane and he's introduced, introducing me as an alumni. And I'm going alumni. I fucking quit, you know, but uh, you know, but it was a good experience and the fact that it it just it exposed me to a world that uh, I really didn't know about. Okay, And

did you make good money? Well not really. I remember one year I was making about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, like win a million dollars in commission, I mean literally a million dollars. Was in the early eighties, and I got a dollar raise. And I remember one of the other agents because at the time, the agents that were in the music age, so william Mars, most of them didn't have any real clients. It was really a hotchpotch of people, and their their game was to

beat the management. You know, let's not they weren't um, they weren't trying to get an act. They were trying to fool the management to keep their jobs. And one guy says to me, hey man, we should just be happy we have jobs, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You know, but that with that that day, I knew I was done. I was out of william Mars. This is never gonna work for me, you know, they were It was just uh, they didn't take care of the people at that time that wasn't there their mantra. So

I left. Okay, how long did you contemplate leaving and what you do for startup funds for your new agency. Well, Roddy Damesfield, who was my client, said to me, I mean he had a real prejudice. He felt that the senior agents, William Mars, just to abuse him. He was just not a fan of theirs, and he hated paying meat and percent and going to them. So he told me one day, if you don't get out of here,

I'm leaving. I'm not I'm not uh. And I had a bunch of different circumstances come around and and obviously I just said how they didn't really take care of you. So I I was gonna leave. And it took me about a year. You're an half. I was waiting on. I had pursued some another client that I was trying to get that ended up not working out though I was promised the client, but it didn't work out. And I finally woke up and said, hey, I'm out of

my mind. I should be out of here. And Rodney was the one who advanced me forty three thousand dollars to start my own business. Hmm. And believe me, he told me for many years how I owed him, but he but he did advance me forty three thousand dollars. And I remember Adam Cornfeld has worked me for over fourty years. We hopped out, he hopped We hopped out of William Morris and opened up on office across the street.

And our clients who are Rodney, Billy, Ted Nugent. Um, I think John Caffey and the Beaver Brown Band and the Beach Boys, and uh, we had a little bit of we had a little bit of a game going. Okay, just for a second. What was Rodney really like? And this was when he really started to make get and how to what degree were you involved in that? Now? I was very close to Rodney. Um. I was thirty one when I thought of representing Rodney, and I think he was fifty nine. Rodney was a young man's comic.

I mean, he can really better to me than he could to contemporary. We were more on the same page. And he his DNA was he it was all comedy. He was just uh. I mean he first of all, nobody made me laugh like he did. I mean when you're hanging with somebody, and he was fast and things he would see you, he was It was just extraordinary. He was just absolutely brilliant. But he also taught me very clearly had to be rich, famous and miserable, and um,

you know, Rodney was also very depressed. Came from a very difficult background with his mom and stuff. But he was a brilliant comedy a comedian. He introduced me to the world of comedy. He I would travel with him and um, you know many times and uh he you know, he made good money. He was always you know, he's well played casinos and I had a lot of great, wonderful experiences Rodney. I was with Rodney till for twenty three years until he passed. And as a matter of fact,

I always remember when I went to his funeral. Um, I probably hadn't cried in the years, and I saw Rodney's daughter, Melody, and she we hugged and I started to cry, and she said, he trusted you. And um. But I think to him, and I quote him many times in my life. I think of lines that he said, you know, uh one am I sweating for I got the job? I think of that that all the time.

How about how I approached life because a lot of times I gotta remember I I got the job, I already won, and um, I don't have to function with that fear and uh that might go into a situation. So to what degree were you involved in his film career? Very little? I mean actually the woman he had a manager, a Stell Endlow, who actually produced and oversaw the easy of the Back to School, which was his biggest success.

And uh, she passed, she died of cancel and once she passed, I felt that the film career went astray. Rodney became as the manager of Rodby and you know that had limited success, but he was a phenomena, of course, and he was he really made his bones on late night TV. To what degree with the manager handle that? It was? Really it was once a Stell passed, it really wasn't a manager. I mean, uh, I remember when Jay Leno, he told me Jay Leno he had an

open invitation. He could go up on Jay anytime he wanted. He really, Uh, he was a godfather. He was a golf he was and he was the godfather of the young comic. I mean he you know, I Andrew Dice Clay who we still still worked with and loved Ice and I got him from Rodney and you know, um he all of these whether it was Kennethon Seinfeld and Rosanne Barr and it was just a WHOSU those hbos specials were just and and he loved the the talent.

They were like his children. Okay, see now you have your own agency and you're calling it what q b Q because quality before quantity because after my experience and William, I don't remember one time we had there was a meeting and there was an artist that the fair guy, the Fair department wanted the agency to represent. Nobody wanted to represent the guy, but we ended up representing him. And I said to myself, can you imagine if the

artists only knew that nobody wanted him? But here he is the Fair agents is pushing him and that and I and so the philosophy of quality before quantity is, which is really a philosophy of mine anyway, who's just like um? So that so we were qb Q. That's that was how we started and what played out at qb Q q b Q UM actually and we started in eighties six and and and a eight was we just boomed. I mean, we started really making money. I mean we had the dirty Dancing to her, which was

just huge. I mean we sold that eight radio city musicals with just an ad I mean so and that came from a client, Eric Carman. It ticked me off about that. And Debbie Gibson exploded in and and and and Billy obviously was a continued superstar. So we were just we were just rocking. We were just smoking and you know, um and and and that. You know that continued. Um So the agency was was basically very healthy in

the in the early nineties. We got uh the Q Prime guys brought over there rocks that us so that became Metallica and def Leopard and you know and uh Tesler and and their roster. So that became a part of you know, and then um Alan Kovac, who had been a very close associate, he gave us. We were introduced to Motley Crewe and and and that. So you know, we just had established we we established a relationship with

credibility of being very good at what we did. And there were a lot of you know, and and people were drawn to us, and we were hustled. We hustled people we we went out hustling and worked very hard to uh to get clients and and it was. And then then in the late nineties I sold the business to Bob Silliman. Okay, but he did end up buying all the other agencies. People thought he was going to roll up the age. What was going on there? Well, we were, we were going to do it. We did.

We had five agencies under our umbrella. And then Bob sold the Clear Channel and uh he he said to me when he sold, you know we had five there was you know, he paid everybody's lawyers fees and you know that put in the time and energy. And two of the agencies, which was I, T. B and John Giddings, continued and made deals the Clear Channel, which became Live Nations, So they continued. The others didn't happen. But MAB paid the legal piece and and he took care of me.

He gave me my business back, which I was only there with him for two and a half years, and he gave my business back and he paid me start from the beginning. Why did you make the deal? Well, it was at the time of the roll up. I just saw it as as an opportunity to besides make money. UM, I just sort of as uh. I liked what he

was doing. I thought he was making smart buys. I mean at that time buying pace and sell a door and uh Delstner and coppolit I mean I thought he was he was he was, he was making good picks. So I wanted to be part of that team. I was interested in that. And I remember um meeting with Mitch later and um, you know, he says, you always make money, and then he introduced me and I had a meeting with Bob and Bob was talking. Then they have the meeting was Rodney jokes and uh, Bob made

me an offer and I became part of his team. Okay, so it ends with the sailor you get your business back. What goes on there. Well, my experience was so good that I was open to be acquired again. And actually it did happen. Uh several years later, when um I made a deal with Van burkele my son Jared came into the business and he said, hey, if I'm going to come in, I want to grow the business and we needed to find a rabling and uh so we

spent you know, Jack Kennedy. As a matter we'd have financial people I would be saying, well, where did we leave off with this one? What's the status of this one? But we started to realize that we needed somebody who understood or had a sense of the entertainment space. Not somebody and not just people who are financial people, but people who at that time could certainly understand, uh, the entertainment space. And we identified Ron Barkel, who had interest

in that space and investment in that space. And we took some meetings and our lawyer knew somebody connected to Wrong and you know, and and ten years ago we made a deal with Wrong. And was he an eager buyer or you had to sell it to him? I think it was mutual. I think the I think timing is everything. I think they were open to expand in their entertainment game. And uh, and I had such a great experience with Bob Sulliman, you know that, why wouldn't

I want to do this again? Right? So, ultimately, you know, brokeled in by other agencies. What's going on there? Well, we've we've done two deals since then, you know, we've done several deals. We brought in Marshall Alassa, who is a superstar agent and as a major roster, and we brought in K two from England with John Jackson or

his Metallica and Iron Maiden worldwide. And then we just made a deal in association with x Ray who represents Coldplay and Guerrillas and um, M and M. So we've made some some major in roads over the uh you know, UM, you know, we're not we're not trying to be UM you know, we we're not trying to be CIA, but we've made some uh I think some very calculated, small intelligent moves or some great people to who are you

trying to be? We're trying to be prepared. I mean, you know, I I one time, like I believe ultimately that um, you know, if there was ever you know, just like in the philosophy of my would we started this interview out and we talked about the a artists being compromised in the agency world because you know, the the artist didn't want to pay for the same services

or similar services twice. And I felt that the only way that if that if you're if you're going to be threatened or your business is gonna be threatened, then you may have to get into the promotion business and why should I lose an artist to somebody that I've developed and have a relationship with it. I have a foresight because I just don't have the money to go compete.

So um by now having a lot of you know, agents that have relationships with their artists that um you know that kind of at the same time, as much as we're building an agency business, we're building you know, or we have the accessibility if we need it to be in that space. We can be in that space. We can play in that space if we have there as long as we have the resources. It's not necessarily

where I'm going, but it's a possibility. Okay, So you're saying theoretically, if you want to go into from motion business, Ron has deep enough pockets to support you. Ron can and you know, if Ron shows that that that's you know, it's just hey, Ron's available for an opportunity. There's some great opportunities now, you know, as as as long as it works out with others, we don't need that. But if it didn't and our business was threatened, then I

think we got to step up to the plate. And I think you go, you know, and I think to be aligned with others and hey, and and if if I can give my arts the same opportunities as somebody else, why wouldn't you want to stay with me who you

already know? So you're saying there's room for more competitors beyond as a major scale, beyond a g and live nation if necessary, if the agent is now now now as long if the agents don't want to promote, the agencies don't want to promote, well that's their that's their choice. But I think that's the only way to eventually um neutralize the game. I mean, otherwise, you know, you're always gonna be the tail wagging the dog. But you know what would be the trigger to go down that road?

Keep taking my ax, keep you know, if I can't compete, if I can't compete with you, and I'm gonna, you know, become somebody that was making you know, seven figures a year and beduce to uh, you know, to uh you know, to you know, to a small sum of money. You're you're you're now costing me my income, You're taking my living away. So how how am I going to protect myself? I gotta compete with you? And why do I want to give up these primary relationships? Because you have the

resources that I don't have. And yeah, maybe agencies don't want to take risks, and I understand that, but that's the game you're in. And how did you convince Marsha to come with you? I think that I think what we offered is the I think Marsha can be an independent within an organization. She's she's Marsha doing her thing, but she also has us, and she has a bigger picture and and and other players when she wants to, and she doesn't have to have us when she does.

She's you know, it's like it's she's she's an independent and and and a paul of a bigger picture. So she can draw from our resources other experiences with other artists are doing. But she's able to run her own business. So your CEO, you essentially never tell her how to run her business. Now, I don't tell her. I share with her. I talked to her all the time, we share information. She'll bounce things off of me. I'll bounce things off of her. Where where friends? Where you? And

But I don't tell her what to do? Okay? And with the English company, what's the history there? Same thing? I mean, it's like I think our philosophy is we want to give everybody. We want to encourage the entrepreneurs and the star ages to be star agents. We're just we're just giving you an umbrella with certain resources that you can you can extract from. So we really encourage I try to avoid all the politics. I mean, listen, it's not my business. But some of these agencies, you'd

be surprised em many unhappy people. There are people who are miserable politically. It's a s and it's not out there, and there's a lot of honesty about that that's not out there. But there's a lot of very unhappy people and a lot of people stay there at a fear comfort all that kind of stuff. But I'm I try to be if you're a star, I try to we try to encourage your independence. We try to encourage, you know, the best of both worlds, security and independence at the

same time. Well, you know, it used to be that, especially in the seventies, music was huge income for these major agencies. Now the agencies are really like you know in sports, the UFC, I mean, what's going through the head of these agents there? Music agents are getting no respect. Well not in my world, you know, I mean, you know, and God bless, you know the entrepreneurship and um and you know, and you know and how they've diversed and you know, it's it's you know, I'm I admire what

many many people have done. However, um, that's not where i am. I'm not. I'm not some of these people. I'm a music business. I'm to Sarrio, i am not in the sports business. I'm a sports fan. I'm not in the sports business. I'm not you know, we have we have alignments with people. We have a sponsorship group that we that we have an alignment with. But I'm you know, I admire and God bless, but I'm not

in the shoe business. I'm in the music business. I have a lane, I have a niche, I have a way of what I know and what I'm an expert in. I'm not a you know, I'm not a jack of all trades. And the way you tell your story is a little different from other agents. Other te agents tell the story although they were going out six nights a week networking looking for talent, did we not hear that or that you didn't just didn't do it that way?

I did it that way. I mean Hey, I I go to l A, and I go to Howard Coftins, and I visit people I was chasing all the time. I never have considered myself, uh a great signer, though we we ended up having, you know, a very good roster. But I, you know, I would be out there. I mean, but there's different ways of being out there, and and you know, and that evolves and and then you grow

your business. And we've had a lot of people who have been with us for a long time and they'd be at on the street and and and sometimes you party. You're really you know, you have a relationship with one manager and he signs bands and he loves your work, and all of a sudden you're representing more bands from their roster. So there's just many ways to obtain a roster. And uh, hey, there are some some agencies that's hire

fifty agents and see what sticks to the wall. I mean, we haven't been that kind of That's not been our motus operendum, but hey, there are other I would like to be in the country business. Now, am I personally gonna be in the country business. Not really, But if I can find and and and the superstar agent, that would seek what we offer, um, and you know that that would be the way I'd want to be in

the country business. I wouldn't necessarily myself stop going door to door, but I need somebody else who's a superstar, who has who can go beyond the big agency or feel that you know, would would have the you know kind of I guess, the courage, the entrepreneurship and the spirit to uh to make a move. I mean, there aren't very many independence out there anymore. I think everybody's looking for safety net. So how many people work for you in New York twenty two twenty two? And how

many your agents? And okay, now you're only one person, So how much can you handle? And if I sign with you, are you doing the work or somebody else doing the work? Um? Both? I mean sometimes sometimes I'm the parent. Sometimes I al, we signed the band, why don't we the boy band, which so I believe is gonna be you know, superstar band. I'm right in there. We've resenting worldwide. I am right in there. I'm there with my my son Jared and with Adam Quintfeld, and

I'm I'm right in there doing the work. I mean, but again, it takes the village, and I have different relationships within different networks and um and uh so, but uh yeah, I you know, sometimes I'm the parent sometimes but I delegate. Well I'm a good delegator, but I also melodically on and I oversee. Okay, what's your personal future?

You're gonna do this till you drop? Well, listen, I got you know, we have the last year we were supposed to have the Death Weap in Motley Cruz Poison Stadium Tour, which was probably the biggest tour in America last year and I was just hugely successful. And now our next years it's going to be the third time that this thing is gonna be scheduled. So here we are and Billy Joel doing stadiums and Metallica doing stadiums. I mean, why would I want to let go of this?

This is a blast? I mean, to me, what an August and it is to walk into a stadium of forty people and your artist is playing and I'm having a blast. So why would I want to You know, It's like if you said to me if I could still pitch baseball and win twenty games a year, and then he said to me, hey, you when you're gonna retired as long as I get to keep If I can still win twenty games, why would I'm having a blast.

So I'm having a great time. If you told me I had a big bar, bands and and and what crawl my way, I don't know if I could do that, but I could do this. This is fun, okay? And you're doing this? Is this seven? Or you have any other interests I do? I have. I have another life. I you know, I I play golf. I still pitch softball. I don't know how long that will keep going on.

I'm a big sports fan. UM. I have a lot of you know, some very significant other I'm very close to my family, my daughter and my son and my grandson, and and and some very close family. And I have some very very close friends that have nothing to do

with the business. I don't know. The best friends is a shrink and uh sometimes I'll sit there with him and I can talk to him and and get a whole different perspective of of the world psychologically or what what what people are thinking in a way I may not have seen something and UH find it, um, you know, UH find it very intriguing. So I have a network of which most people really don't know of people that just have nothing to do with my daily world. Have

you ever been in therapy? Yes, As a matter of fact, my therapist, my my buddy more um who I drove with him from New York when he went to school of psychology in San Diego and he um and and and I watched Mawkie had to go through analysis and all of this too, um, you know, to to become a doctor. And I watched him go through this whole process. But he and he was getting so happy. It was like he was really working himself out and really understanding himself in a very deep level. And I says, man,

I love this ship. And and so my therapist for seven years was one of his teachers, and Stanley was just brilliant. I mean, Stanley wouldn't give you much, but Stanley, you know, definitely helped me sort out a lot of you know, parent understanding and parent issues. And it paved the way, um for for for me to have a happy life. I took a lot of lessons out of that. And um, I'm you know, wisdom is very important to

be smart. You'd be smart about yourself being emotionally healthy, It's very very important to me and to surround you people that kind of support that. Like when I go out with my buddy, my string friend, Dr. Markminson, and we're talking. I mean sometimes I had the stimulation and the things we get into and he talks to me about his patients and it's just uh said, all that stuff to be to be worked out and to be

emotionally happy is is a journey of life. And I, um, you know that's that That's the essence of who I am. I want to be happy. How many times you've been married once. I'm married to my lovely wife Bonnie for forty two years. We've had two children, and hey, we have a goal. We have great life. I'm very blessed. You're buried in the late seventies. You know, this is a business that to me, ends a lot of time. How is she with that? Bonnie Bonnie Bonnie vicariously plays

this game. I mean she doesn't live. You know, she could sit here with me and she has um. You know, the beginning she traveled with me and went with me. Now she doesn't go so much, has been gone for for a while. And she said to me, Um, a bunch of years ago. Um, it was sent to me not too long ago. She said, Oh, I stopped going with you when you made it. I never knew that she realized that I had made it. She didn't. Uh. But Bonnie was a great asset. And first of all,

I needed to marry a woman who wasn't depressed. Um. I remember one time taking a beautiful woman to see Eric Harman at the bottom Line, and this woman wanted to make it with Eric Harman, not me, and you know, and I I and but I needed I need somebody, you who who got the game but wasn't impressed, And that was Bonnie. And I could take Bonnie. She could work a room. The girls would always love her, would be Billie's band, and the wives and always liked her.

She was bubbly, she was up, she was beautiful. And I remember when I went to William Morris and UH for the first meeting, and I'm sitting there with the chairman on the West Coast and he's sitting on her and he was sitting in the meeting and this guy's trying to get laid with my wife right there. But you know, but Bonnie was she was you know, she was just a great asset that way, and she understood

the game. She still does now. She sits there and gives me her her opinions sometimes, you know, many times, you know, And so she's she it's almost like it's like I'm a board game to her. She just you know, comments and who she likes and who she doesn't and this is smart and whatever. But she's she's been uh,

and I've only been lucky with Bonnie, you know. So it's been uh, it's it's been a great relationship when we've raised two beauty for children and my son who runs the company, and uh, my my my confidante and m and my daughter and and it's just it's just been, uh, I've been very blessed. And though I'm on the road, um, I mean, you know, I'm doing what I have to do. And but my base, my my home base has been a very stable factor of my life. How did you

meet Bonnie? I met her promoting concerts at Suny New Pauls and we and we had a guy who was our box office. Our box office was you walk into the entrance of the of the main building and there was a booth and we were selling tickets for Poco's Apple Judy college and his girlfriend, Um was Bonnie's roommate. And one day we had a party after the Poco show and I saw her and I and I walked there with my buddy Corky, and it was like, oh, man, I you know. So we had a kind of a

rocky courtship for a few years. But then um we got married in uh seventy nine, and you know, and I look back and I look back at the pictures of us, and I go, man, she what had a great choice I made? Was she hot? But she's still hot? But she was really hot. But anyway, that was important to me. She was intelligent, she was beautiful, and uh and and and she's a great mom. And that's really what she wanted to do. But when the first few years of our life, if she had a career, she

would never have been with me. She you know, we would never have been together. Ifew we would have been apart. So, um, you know, there's good and bad sometimes when your wife works and doesn't work. But I kind of encouraged her to follow my path and she didn't, you know when so we had a lot of experience together. We we

went to it, we went around the world. We went to Australia and Israel and Japan and took our son and you know, we we we did a lot of the road and eventually, I'll tell you one thing that was very funny. Bunny when she knew it wasn't for her. We were when I was representing the Beach Boys. I mean, we went to Buffalo, got there, checked into the hotel. Four hours later, do a day show, gone, Banny, come on, we're leaving that we have another show tonight in Toronto.

She goes, this isn't for me, you know so, But but now she's, hey, that's very important. You have to have the uh, the right woman to handle the tembent and you gotta have a balance. I was always you know, sensitive to like I wasn't. I wasn't somebody. If I was a road manager, she could never have made the marriage work. But as a um, as an agent, I didn't. I didn't go on the road for three weeks. Maybe I went to Australia, I'd be gone for a week, but it didn't go. You know, um, you know that

wasn't that and I didn't want that. I mean, there are a lot of people when they travel, they it's like there, it's the circus, it's goodbye to your family. I didn't really have that. I didn't. I didn't. I had that at times, but never goodbye to see it for two months. It wasn't like that. It wasn't what I wanted. You've been very successful. What have you done with all your money? Well, I I try to uh

live comfortably, live live, you know, I try to. You know, I think the American dream would or whether America or the dream, is to be able to live off your money and you know, independent of making money. And I think I've accomplished that, and um so and uh, I just trying to really you know. Uh it's not like, um, I have so much money where I can buy a baseball team, which but um, you know, I I you know, it's uh most of my money. You know. It just helps me live my life, that's all. It's just me

gives me a lot of freedom. I mean I make, you know, make good money now and I have a good lifestyle. But you know, uh nothing, just just preserving myself. We we we we've invested certain charities. I take care of certain people. I have a brother who's uh schizophrenics since um, you know, you know, you know that needs help and care. So a lot of my you know, some of my giving is taking care of my family and different different situations. And so okay, now you had

a hard times at the beginning. There are people who are successful and it's all show. They don't count their pennies. On the other hand, there are people who never forget where they came from. Where are you at? Like if you say, okay, it's a gig, Yeah, I'm not flying commercial, let's higher a plane. Where are you on that continuum? As far as um, well, I would always choose to fly fly privately when I can, especially in COVID times.

But um, you know, uh, you know it's um some of the things that I've obtained materially, I would never work for them. I would never, like, um, bust my ass to have a Bentley or if I if if it ended up happening by what I did, great, But it's not like I would work for a car or I never worked to make money and you know, like I'm going to try to be rich, I never thought of that. That was never my goal. My goal was this was Everything that happened to me was more of

an outgrowth of me just doing my job well. And then I had to learn about money. But it wasn't um you know, I never was somebody who had, oh, this is my dream. My dream is to have this house or I own this place in Florida. And I never thought that way. It just it was just what came out of the success of doing my job well. It was never never thought about that. Let's assume you're on vacation. You on the phone, Yes, okay, I'm I'm I'm seven, I'm I'm neurotically on. This is the business

that nobody needs you. I mean, it's a it's a luxury business. And if you're not available, you think I can sit there and get a phone call from a manager or um and and somebody, and and my responses, I'm sorry, I'm ondcation, you know. And And when I when I started, I swore that nobody would outwork me, not that I would never lose my job because of my effort. And that still maintains. And as long as I want this, which I still do. That's what it takes. This is what to me, this is what it takes

to keep it together. I can get an email at ten thirty on a Saturday night with an author. You know, am I responding right away? No? But I'm all Emily, will you know, I'm I'm in the game, whatever it takes. That's you know. I I like my Sunday's. I love Christmas, I love you know, certain holidays where I don't think I'm gonna be bothered. But you know, there are sometimes there's more that goes on on a Sunday that goes on on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. There are certain people

that you did are communicating differently. So, um, it's it's a lifestyle. It's just it's all you know. And in certain ways, a lot of my life and my family life has always revolved around my business and where does dad have to go? Where's Billy working with Steph Leopard? The younger generation in the agency business and a lot of businesses can do everything via email. Older generation is all phone, Where are you in that game? I am Probably I do. I do phone, but I do a

lot of emails. A matter of fact, my wife would would sit there with me and I can be on the beach, and she said, oh yeah, not getting that many calls. I've been off the email, you know, So yes, I'm emailing, as a matter of fact, what I do every night, and sometimes it's it's painful because I don't go through all my emails. During the day I'm doing I'm calling, I'm I got. At night, I sit there, I go through my emails and I make notes. I'm always making notes so I'm prepared for the next day.

I have things to move along, different processes that I'm working on, so I'm always writing down lists of what I need to do the next day. But a lot of email. Email is taken over a lot um. I speak on the phone a bit, but not nearly as much it used to be, obviously a little phone, but I do a lot of emailing. Okay, we were sitting in the House of Blues at a Newgen concert like a decade ago, and you were telling me two things.

You were telling me you're gonna sell your company again, and you were also telling me you were gonna do the monthly gig at Madison Square Garden with Billy. So that is your idea, tell me that whole story where it is today. Well, the Billy the Billy thing is uh. Well, but first of all, I did sell my company again to Ron, and uh so that that that did happen, and uh, you know, and I'm very I'm very proud

of that. And and I've had a great relationship with Want through these years and and and the great How often do you have contact with Ron? Sometimes I can we we email, you know, Sometimes I can email Ron several times, uh, you know in a week. Sometimes we can go by, you know, not speak for a month. But the interesting thing is is and Ron is very good at letting his entrepreneurs be their entrepreneurs. So most

people don't even know I have ownership. I am still perceived very much as an independent agent and an agency and uh Ron, and but and that and that's perfect. I mean if there's many times, like I say, and that's and that's why I don't function much differently than I did prior to my relationship with Ron. And for that fact, even one was with Bob Sullivan. Because I'm in the kind of business you can own my money, but you can't own me because I don't own me.

I my artists owned me. I my artists run my life, not me, so you can there's only you know, I if and if I don't represent my artists, well I will lose them, so you need me to represents. You can't control me because they do. And that's so to me. I I always there's no such thing as owning me. You you can own my money, but you can't own me because, um, it doesn't exist. I'm you know, the artists are who supplies us with our income? Okay, the

Billy story So um Billy play. Uh closed Shaye Stadium in two thousand and eight, which was, um, maybe the greatest gig of that I've ever been involved with in my life. I remember right after the gig, Body and I flew down to Anguila. It took us a week to come down. It was like it was just this electric hi. I mean, um, you know it was whether it was Steven Tyler and Don Henley and John Mayer and um, it was just a Roger Daltrey. It was

just who's who. And the funny thing about that is the Mets had um come to us and we we we and they wanted us to play the year before at Shaye Stadium and um because they wanted McCartney to close. And I said, We're only playing Shafe Stadium if we close. So and and if you didn't get McCartney you got

no butt and and about I don't know. Six months later they came back and said, you can close, and um, ironically McCartney did close because he came to say stadium and um, you know, ended the concert with Billy doing uh let it be And I saw her standing there and I remember, um. On on the way home, Dave Howard, who was the Met executive at the time when we made to deal with he is on the phone. Misses, hey, Dave, you got your cake and you ate it really close

and you got McCartney. So but it was well, that whole the whole thing was just uh spectacular. So here's Billy, who's so iconic in New York. How do you follow up Shay Stadium? We played Yankee Stadium, the old Yankee Stadium. We had played the Giant Stadium, you know multiple times

with Elton John What do you do? And and and and and uh So one night, Um, I was in Turks and Tikos with my Fami Emilee and with Ja Marciano, who at that time was president of the Garden and now obviously one's a g and and out of that dinner evolved the idea of doing a once a month in and it didn't happen for a couple of years later.

Remember J and I we actually had a deal in place, and uh when we did it, um, you know, uh, and then the Garden and Jay was now no longer there, and the Garden came and they talked about making Billy a franchise, and the Knicks and the Ranges and and uh, you know, I believe we would sell out twelve the

first year, which was in two thousand fourteen. That I believe, because in two thousand and six we had sold out twelve and I think the record at the time was the Dead had sold out like thirteen or Bruce or whatever. And so the idea once we went on that we would sell twenty four two years once a month, and we sell nineteen thousand, we sell the whole building. But the idea that we could possibly sell twenty four was just amazing to me. Well we did it. We saw

that the twenty four and now we're up to seventy. Um, we're up to seventy three. We actually have six shows that have been rescheduled UM that we're supposed to take place since the virus, so we're really up to seventy nine. When we finished next April, we're starting this again. Billy returns to the Guarden November five, so we would have

We have been at the Garden for seven years. I mean we've seen people go through college, We've seen people go from high school, they graduated, we've seen people have children. It's you know, we say, hey, you know, watch seven years go by, and we are now up to like I said, we finished the seventy nine, will he'll be up to his eight show is something like a hundred and thirty something lifetime, which I've been to every one

of them, and it's it's it's it's a phenomena. And I and I remember Billy saying to me at one point, are you sure this is gonna work? And um, you know it did. But I tell you the truth, as as as proud as the sighted, and and and and first of all, it's so amazing to have an artist that you can represent. You can dream all you want, but I have somebody that can do it. I mean that he's capable of doing that, he can actually draw, that's you know, So the fact that Billy can do this,

and and it's always been my philosophy. I always wanted to do rock God, rock God things, things that confirm who you are in the world. So if you if if if, if you are playing um uh stadiums or doing what you do with the Garden God, that's who you are. You know, that's you know. And that again and and that you can do this, uh these kind of events is very very rarefied air, and so I always looked to do that. I always look to prove who we are and who he is, to show who

he is. And but one of the proudest things is that I am of him and his career. That he's a stadium act. I mean we weren't a stadium ac. I mean this guy could sell a stadium anywhere, and it's whether it's Kansas City or Buffalo or Green Bay, and that with no hit record, but it's it's all a testament to his body of work. But the idea that in the last eight years we went basically from an arena ract to clean me up to play every stadium anywhere is just that is what I am most

proud of. That he can do that, and that becomes that that that existed out there and that that's where he went and when we were able to do that with nothing, with nothing more than his catalog is a great testament to him. And that's something I'm just so proud about. Is he still into it? Oh yeah, I mean you know he's um. You know, Billy doesn't get ever too high and too low. But yes, he's I think he's very proud of it. I mean his Rapino

said in his interview, he is something with you. You you are what you can sell and what venues you can play. And and hey, I do certain things because others can't. I mean, you know, we played we we played in Kansas City, the first show at Coaufman Stadium with the Royals played baseball thirty eight years. I heard that I couldn't wait with a hook thirty eight years with the first show, and we blew it right out.

So I like the way I like to do things, Like hey, when I hear buffalo and I hear nobody sells that buffalo over hey, we sold that buffalo on the onset. I mean I like to do things. We played Fenway Park seven years in a row, We played Wrigley Field five years in a row. He played Citizens Bank Bullpark six years in a row. Why because nobody else can do that you know you can go there once? Can you go there every year and sell it out? And we're not the grateful day? Well, well you know

we're not fish. We don't have that. So that's an amazing testament to his work. And so I love doing things that most don't. They can't Okay, most acts coming through New York City, they played Medicine Square Garden for the status. They can't make any money. So I assume you have a special deal that this is lucrative for you and Billy, I would hope. So, I mean, you know, not the Okay, let's go back to history for a second. How did the Olton and Billy thing come together? And

I know Abilly needed an operation? Why did it never happen again? Well, it came together. I'll tell you. I remember one night we were in Toronto and I'm saying, hey, Billy, let's do some stadiums, and well, you know when he was like, well, I don't really think I think we I don't think it's a bang for the buck for the fan. We've got to give him somebody else we

should be we should put something together. So we're all sitting around and and we came up with Elton, and I said, okay, Um, well, hey Dennis, Well when went to Carey went to call Elton's people. So I call Howard Rose out of the blue, and this is exactly how the conversation went. I go, Howard, would you be interested in going out with us? And Howard goes there's a pause on the phone, and he goes, how many

nights you think we could sell out Philadelphia? That's how and we sold out three And that's exactly how it how it it started, and um, and actually it was so unique in that uh. And I love Howard Rose, I mean I do, I I had. He was such a wonderful partner through the whole process and um, and he represented Elton with the passion that I represented Billy.

And we were equal and there was never and he he never and we we were both and we had arguments and all kinds of stuff, but he was as genuine to Elton as I was to Billy, and we were kind of both in the same position. And it was it was just, uh, it was great. And we you know, we we played stadiums like the tour remember started a ninety fourd San Diego, um bill Silver Presents and uh, it was. It was just an amazing and today you couldn't. You couldn't put it together because they

don't they don't need each other. Financially, you can't afford it. What can you do? You can double the prices, you can't get It's almost economically not possible unless worldwide. Who could sell more tickets? Elton or Billy worldwide? Am I announcing a reunion too? I mean I know no, no, no, no not. I'm just asking no when they when you put the tour together? Okay, I thought was Elton was a bigger act. We're not talking to forget the music,

let's just stock selling tickets, okay. But now at this late day, it looks like Billy's the bigger act. You know, um, el you know one thing like like I always believe with Billy, you know, he was always an underdog. He never got the notoriety that Bruce, Michael Jackson, a lot of artists Elton, you know, you know, Billy was kind of we just he just won quietly. Up until the early nineties, he was the number one selling artist in in America behind the Beatles. And you know now he

hasn't put out a record since ninety three. But um, but Elton, you know Elton, you know, I would say probably at that time worldwide. I mean we we got a lot of exchanges. There were different cities and different countries. I mean, m Elton. Elton played a lot more England, and you know, his touring was different. He'd played many different kind of venues. It wasn't like Elton was just

touring stadiums throughout Europe and then we came along. He would play all kinds of different venues and and things that that you know, that that the Billy would do. So I think at the time it was, um, it worked for both of them. They both could it. Just it took them up a level. We kind of in the billy world. We did the arenas, we did the multiple arenas. We needed to go to another level. And um, it wasn't like we're gonna stary having a hit record.

This was the next level. And um, hey listen, a lot of artists emulated that package. That was the home of the of two of the greats. And uh, you know you'll probably never see it again, at least, you know, you can never say never. I know Billy and Elton still close or still still communicate, to each other, but it's it's just um, you know, uh, you know they're they're they're both you know, it's just it both doing

amazing at this time. I mean, Billy was Elton, now on his retirement tour, has done spectacular business and uh and Billy Hey quietly has done amazing. I mean, Billy is is this is what you aspire to be, is what Billy Joel is doing. Okay, two best shows you ever saw LED's Zeppe one at the film Worice when I was nineteen. I was sitting in the seventh row and they were headlining for the first time in America and they had to prove it. That is still a memory.

I mean it was like the greatest four of musicians I've ever seen. Robert Plant was the ultimate frontman sexy. You know, he s took his jeans. I was a guy who just like this guy. I mean, you know, it's like it wasn't my thing, but you know every girl wanted fuck him and you know, uh and you know Page and Bonham and John's it was just bottom was. It was just incredible and you know, certainly I Billy at Say Stadium was uh, it was as as great

as it can be. Bruce at the bottom Line. I saw Bruce's bottom line in seventy four and he he took im talk about the year before born to Run. Yeah, Bruce when it was an amazing moment that he was a guy playing this four hundred sea club and he was breaking around the world as a superstar, and it was like all coming from this little club. It was just you know, so that that was probably an amazing moment of watching an artist being celebrated in this bar

that was now becoming a worldwide phenomena. But you know, Billy at Shay Stadium was h you know, like I say I said before, it took me a week to come down from that. But um, but Jeppelin at UH and I was a major Doors fan. I went to I saw the Doors um multiple times in my um in my life, and it was Jim Morrison was a very big influence. You know, it was actually one of the great influences of my life. Was Terry Knight really

Terry Knight in the pack Crook? Well, I don't I can't speak for what he did internally, and I you know, but I but he took a band and those days, in those days, how do to you either be from England or San Francisco. You how you know it was it was um you know, you had to get radio play, you had to be hit. And he took three guys from Michigan who got no airplay, who look who were supposed to be uncool, and and they got and and he and they came the biggest band in the world.

They sold out, Chase stayed even seventy two, fastened the Beatles, and his campaign, I mean I emulated and I still do. And I remember one time Chef Gordon and I when we when he was talking about the Alice Cooper campaign, we talked about Terry Knight. But I emulated what this guy does, what he did, and I still use some

of the things that he did. He'd buy six pages in Billboard or cash box in those days with pictures of the guys, and I would go and I was, you know, and I was one of those at the time. I was a student learning, and I was like, they have to be big. Look at this, you know. I mean, he sold me on how big they were before they were. And I've used through the years some of his strategies in the marketing and the making of an artist. It was like, if you tell the industry, they will tell

the public. That's your best shot. So but he did. I remember one time on the US to the Home album, he took his billboard out on Times Square. It was just huge, and there was a painter strike that their pictures were hanging on that billboard for months, and it was just it was like only people that were stars, big stars, would get this, and they weren't yet, but they had to be. So he sold me and I bought into it, and and years later I represented them

for a while. I represented them to kind of when it was the end of the Grand Fund, when Mark, Donnie and Mel were still all together and David Fisher was managing them at the time, I had a chance of representing them for a while and it was so and I was a fan. It was one of the few times I was like, really, I'm such a fan, but I was a fan of the phenomenon. Okay, if you got the original members back together as their demand for that today, you mean for for Grand Fund right today?

You know, Um, there's some demands. I mean, you know, uh, it's it's kind of been warded down over the years. I don't know, um, you know, I'm sure it certainly wouldn't be the demand that it was, and it's prime. You know, it's not like uh some other combinations would would that if if this member came back to the band, that would enhance them. Anybody you have who you don't represent, that you'd like to represent, we have a vision how to do it? Oh, I think that all the time.

I'm I'm I'm a student. I think of things. I wouldn't say that because I'd like the artist to hear it, but I it wouldn't really be fair. But I think of certain artists that should be doing things that would enhance them if they're doing arenas, why they're how they can get the stadiums, what they're not doing. Oh, absolutely,

I definitely see that. I mean, I definitely think I can help move some people's career to hey, Leopard and playing stadiums, def Leopards playing stadiums for the second tour in a row in America, I mean, you know, and making a huge money. I mean that wasn't happening. Now. There's a perception def Leopards a fucking a huge band and and and and crew. So you know, but there's definitely things that um, I would love to do if

I had the opportunity to. You know, that's you know, make the help, enhance people to be bigger, make make moves dea Leopard lose, leaves, Q Prime goes to Howard Kaufman. How do you remain the agent? I used to go to l A when you when you said to me, um earlier you said, um, you know, to go on the street to go to clubs. I visited managers and I used to visit Howard and I didn't have any clients with him, but he would see me. And and then when you know, when Leopard left and went to Howard,

Howard stayed with me. That's that, you know, just from those meetings, he stayed with me. And I became very close to Howard. And we'll be you know, as a matter of fact, to give me poison you really admired might work. We had a very good relationship and um, you know he uh, you know, I was fortunate. I I could have lost it at that moment, but um, he stayed with me. That's as simple as that. And then when he passed, Mike Kobe Ash has done a

great job with the band. Uh you know everything's you know, Um, Mike, I have a great relationship and he's helped elevate I mean, Howard rest in peace. He'd be sitting here rooting Mike and me on, like you guys have done such a great job taking it, taken the mantle to the next step, and we're so proud of it. On that note, I think we're gonna end for today. This has been wonderful. Dennis. You know I want to do you because you're opening honest,

You'll hold no punchers. Thanks so much for taking the time. Bob A lot of fun. It's nice listen to myself tell all these things because I never did, but it was it was cool. I like, like fun. Thank you, Bob. Until next time. This is Bob Love sex