Dean Torrence

wore these blue sneakers. I made my mother run all over town just so I could have those blue sneakers. My guest today on the podcast is Dean Torrance, and I still have those sneakers, by the way, really probably Okay, now you email me that today is uh Jan's birthday. Yes he would have been he passed as you know, two thousand four, but he would have been seventy. Okay, And how did you meet Jan? We met in high school just up the street, well down a couple of

miles in West Los Angeles. High school, uh called University high school? You do, And you know I've been with this, wondering this for decades you know why it's called University High School? Yes, I do. Oh really you're gonna yeah, I can finally, you know, you know more about this than I do. Actually UM University High School was called University because it was the closest high school to U C. L A. Oh, okay, other than the name was or any connection you know now, you know as simple as that.

You know, it's a simple I just always wondered you. I thingured there must be some connection, but I didn't know. So you grew up in what part of l A um East West l a Which meant I was right around Beverly Glen and Olympic A couple more miles east or a mile further east, and I would have had to gone to Beverly Hills High School. But there was a certain line there that you weren't supposed to go over if you weren't living in Beverly Hills, you see. So I wasn't cut out to be a Beverly Hills

High school student, I don't think. And what did your father do for a living? Uh? He was in the oil business. He right out of college. He got hired by a little l A based Actually they were from Texas, but they moved all their offices to l A. A little company called Wilshire Oil, which you may remember, what when did you get here? I got in the mid seventies. No,

you wouldn't remember. Those of us that like antiques. There there was a brand called poly Gas that was part of Wilshire Oil, really, and then they sold all of that stuff off, probably in the fifties, forties or fifties, and then he went to work for the guy who owned the company. Okay, so one has to ask, even in the time that I've been here, l A has changed so much. Traffic is so bad. I remember living on the West Side, you go to the valley for a movie on a whib. You would never do that today.

So what was it like growing up in the forties and fifties in l A? Beautiful? It was so simple. The beach was always ten minutes away, ten or fifteen the most um And we just thought, honestly, we thought that most young people did the same thing as we did. We didn't quite grasp anything, you know, outside of what we could see, so we figured everybody mostly lived like this, I mean, so we didn't really even know it was all that special, particularly okay, and you have brothers or sisters?

Had a younger sister, yes, And what did her life turn out to be? Um? Pretty interesting for a while, but unfortunately she got Parkinson's past. She passed away like about six years ago. But I ended up with a house that we owned together. It's just up the street here and I just went by there. We were renting it to some guys from France or Okay, do you still hold the house? Yes? And so how did you

end up with that house? Um? We bought my sister and I bought the house in the seventies just because she liked restoring older, older homes mostly, and it was a nineteen o six craftsman house just off of Franklin and uh I love the neighborhood, always like craftsman. Uh. So we bought it together as she was going to live in it for a while, restore it and then move out and rent it, then move on to another house. Okay,

so it's the only one you ended up boating together. Yes, I owned a house up the street, up underneath the Hollywood sign and probably see that right from your beautiful office here. I bought an old Bogart house that was built nineteen twenty four, So I I had been restoring that one for years. I still own that too. Okay, so you're going to university high school. First, you know there was a surf culture. You mentioned the beach. There

was also a car coal. Was that something that was amped up on the records or was really a big car culture? Um? Quite Frankly, we didn't really grafts that that that kind of subculture was really that important. And for lack of having any other ideas of subject matter about songs, because you know, twenty we don't know much about relationship songs. All those teenisles were singing all those relationship songs, you know, I'm falling in love and breaking up and all that. None of that going out in

our lives. But we did drive hot rods, so we thought we we know pretty much all there is to know about hot rods. Like, maybe maybe that'll interest the you know, the record lovers out there. We didn't know. We found out, yes, that was important that in the serf culture, of course, the beach culture. Okay. Now, the first I remember going to the record story. You'd always looked through the catalog and there was an album Jane Deine's greatest hits with a gold cover. Okay, with baby Talk,

et cetera. When were those tracks? Hits? Late fifties? Late included Barbaraane by the way, Okay, but who did the original Barbarianne their regions? Okay, did your Barbarianne hit the chart? No, it was just just for an album, just an album fillers. Okay. So you're going to university high how do you meet Jen? We're on the We're on the football team together. Just so happened we had lockers right next to one another, so I was forced to talk to him. I didn't.

I didn't think I liked him. Well, he was he was Chan, you know, everybody, everybody knew who he was, and he kind of did whatever he wanted to do whenever he wanted to do it. And I came from a family that you don't break rules, and all that rules were nothing to him. So I just kind of figured he was stuck up, and I didn't even think he would last very long on a football team. So I tried to avoid him, but he kept offering me candy and I turned it down at first because I

was going out. I can't eat candy before you go, you know, work out and practice. That's really stupid. But he won me over with the first with the chocolate and all that kind of stuff. And then we we collectively as as a football team realized we were very, very blessed to have these old locker rooms that were probably built with thirties with that real nice tile, and we had a natural echo chamber. You know, we're where our sports lockers were and the shower room was all

at tile. So man, we all sound when we got around and saying do wop as we were, you know, showering off and heading home. We want Man, we sound good. This is really fun. And of course do wop was pretty much made for vocal groups, so more the better. So we were in a always band you know of vocalists doing doo wop. Now you're living in there. Well, first, let's go back to the football team. Did you guys were you starters? Did you play? Oh? Yeah? And what

position did you have? Um? I played, uh, probably what would be called a wide receiver wing back they called them those days. So I was a wide receiver. My dad was, He played at Stanford and he was a probably tight end ish type player. Um. So you know, when when we would go play ball. He would just keep throwing me passes because he didn't learn anything else just by being thrown a ball. So it's pretty good at catching stuff. Jan it's also really really had good hands.

He could catch two. So we kind of competed somewhat for the same position. Then I ended up playing a lot of defense, and so the defensive back or safety or something. Now, going back to the candy, do you think he saw something in you or you just happened to have the locker next to him, just happened to have the locker next to him. And then when you start doing doo wop in the locker room, who starts that?

It was probably just totally spontaneous because that's what we listened to, you know, in our cars driving to school and drive home from school, listen to du wop. So of course somebody is going to start humming or singing a doop song. And I swear that it was just so spontaneous, and nobody sat down and said, hey, let's sing a song. Somebody just starts singing. Lord, I don't remember who, but everybody's always kind of humming or singing

or whistling. And then because it's doo wop. That's one vocal, so somebody else would add in the second vocal. And then all of a sudden you have five or six or seven or eight people all singing stuff, picking different parts because there's plenty of parts. And I noticed nobody was doing a falsetto, so I put that falsetto party and he went, oh, now we have a full, full on vocal group here. And who has just started had innocently who decided okay, because you know, you're living in

Los Angeles. The whole of the recording industry is supposed to be an omaha or something who decides, well, maybe we should go professional. Oh that was all Jane. See. Jane had an IQ about one seventy in arrange mensa type of stuff, and we were just all hoping to, you know, get passing grades. So he didn't have to study very much. And he was way ahead of us in visualizing and thinking and in his mind which where

he was going to go. And we had no idea except we're going home after practice and doing our homework. So he was a visionary um. He also his dad had made him a music room out of her garage because my girlfriend went to high school with you know, one of his sisters. He came from a huge family of like kids, you're right. And then what did his father do for a living that he could afford to build a music room? He worked for Howard Queues. Wow.

He was one of Howard Hughes's right hand men. Uh. There's quite a famous picture of Howard Hughes in the Spruce Goose airplane that he built all out of wood, and he's sitting Howard the picture well that there's like four or five six guys behind him. He's in the cockpit and one of those guys as Jan's dad. Wow.

So who let me? Years years or later after he retired, they pulled him out of retirement to help them disassemble the airplane because somebody up in the Oregan wanted it or something right, right, they from story right, So he he was involved in making that all happen. Okay, So he built Janet music room. And what we inspired there, well, one of the most important parts was Howard Hughes. And of course you know he wanted to be in and

show biz. As you know, he happened to be an audio file of at least you know, fifties version of it. He had a couple of home Ampex home tape recorders and he was getting rid of them because he was upgrading all of us his U electrical stuff. So he gave and he thought about it, and I guess because he came up to Jan's dad, Bill Perry, and said, hey, I got these two tape recorders. I don't know what

to do with him. I was just gonna jump him or something, but I heard your son is you know, likes music, and maybe he could get some use out of these that I'll take those. Ub Bill took him, took him home, bought Jan a microphone, or I don't think a microphone came from Howard Hughes. So we cut our very first top tune record on those on those two home im pexas okay, and that record was baby Talk. Okay.

So your guys are still in high school, they have the music room, So how does it ultimately come together and record and be professional. Well, the football season ended, so we needed we needed to go someplace else to sing our songs after school because now the baseball team's plan or the track team, so we're out of those

locker rooms. And Jan said, well, I got some tape recorders up at the house, and he had figured out how to uh do some wiring tricks one machine to the other and be able to cause nice little delay echo. It wasn't as good as the shower room, but it worked, you know, as as an echo because once we heard ourselves with that an echo. So luckily he had two machines and he was able to create that echo and made you feel like it was more like like a

real recording. And he knew enough chords on the pianos, so we had a piano and one of these microphones sitting right in between all of us and channel bang out the chords and we'd sing live. And how many guys were there at that point it fluctuated. It went from you know, six or eight guys down to four, back up to six, back down to three, backup to five.

It fluctuated depending on who had a new girlfriend or who you know had a job after school all of a sudden, because they don't have to have an income to spend on a girlfriend and or on a car and getting something chromed. And after a while I assumed a certain guys went, you know, this has been fun, but it's time we move on, and graduation did come along, and everybody just kind of went off like blowing leaves, all in different tractions. All of a sudden, we looked

around and it's just to us. So at that point we didn't want to be a duo, but we were forced to be a duo because nobody else seemed to be interested. What was the first track you tried to shop? Um? We were working on a song, a doop song at one of our buddies, his name is Arnie, Arnie Ginsburg. He had come up with this idea and we toyed around with it and finished it and then saying about

fifty different versions of it. Um. And then one one weekend, Jan decides that he had heard about a recording studio and that you could go get a demo made so you could take it off of it because not that many people out of real to real machines sitting around. So he said, you know, you can go to recording studio. We can take our our tape in and then they'll transfer the tape onto a disk and it'll look like a real record. Well that was pretty exciting. Well how

much does that say? Like twenty bucks? I go home? Well, I'm really busy that actually I was. I was sure. I told him I was a half a semester ahead of him. So I was going to go right out of high school going to the army because some recruiter came to our high school and told us about the reserve program that you only had to go in active duty for six months. That sounded like good deal. Draft was going on. Yeah, there was a draft, so we had to we had to think about that. Although we

were eighteen years old. You'll catch up with you sooner or later. So luckily I had very smart Asian friends, and they all thought that was a good idea and kind of talked me into it, and so we kind of all went in a buddy system. Probably ten or fifteen of us we missed a summer, and that was

probably a great summer too. In the fifties, we missed the summer, but we got out right in time to, you know, either go to Most of them were all going to college in September, so I missed that summer, got out in September, and we'd be home free at thest for a while. We're still in the army, but you didn't have to do active duty, and you had to go to meetings, so that's what I was going

to do. So Janne calls me the night before he's going to the recording studio because it was on a weekend, and I said, well, no, you remember I told you I'm going in the army and I'm never heack Sunday, I got to get on that bus and go to Ford Org. So I'm not going to be able to, you know, go to the recording studio. I just didn't want to come up with the twenty bucks. I figured he probably had it, but but I did have a new girlfriend and my last day, so I'm going to

do this. So he just couldn't understand what I was going to do it. And then he said, well wait a minute, he said army. I said, chan, I told you just for six months. I'll be back in September. Well okay, So he goes to the recording studio. I'm off in the snow someplace with a new girlfriend and

a couple other guys. Come back and I'm getting my stuff ready, packing my stuff, and he calls up and he says, I want to recordian studio and I'm making, you know, making that demo thing, and some guy some stranger just comes into that little booth that they had for the thing, you know, and this guy comes in. He says, he's you know, he's an A R man

with Darwin Records and what is that song? And Jan said, well, I told him that, you know, that was just a song that we were just kind of working on and that actually the only place where we were going to play it's at our next party. And this guy here's that and he wants to hear it again. And then he said, you know, I want it. I want that, I want that. I'll put that out. I'll make you

bigger than the Everly Brothers. Nobody could be. So Jan's telling me that we're going to be bigger than the Everly Brothers and and and you're doing what you're leaving tomorrow. I said, yeah, you call him up and tell him that that you're going to be you know, we're going to be bigger than the Brothers. I said, am I going to call? Do you figure out who to call? I'm going how do you call up the army? And tom one? I said, maybe, you know, I don't know,

Eisenhower might still be there or somebody. I really don't know him. One of its pins. But other than that snay, I just thought he was full of it. Nothing's going to happen in six months. Nothing ever happened when you're eighteen, seventeen or eighteen. So I go off into the army alone. Behold that record gets finished. They overdubbed some real instruments on it, and it's a top ten record. And that record was Jinny Lee By Jan when I heard it

on her. A buddy of mine heard it up in the army and came arounding up to me with a little portable radio because he was familiar with the songs. Listen, I'm listening to it. Sure sounds like the little demo we did up with a saxophone a few other instruments that you could hear. I'm going, oh my god. When I left, we were called the Barons. So at the end of it, the guy says, that's a big hit, you know, out of l A. This is a smash and blah blah blah, and that's Jinny Lee By. I'm

waiting to hear the Barons Jan and Arnie what. I really thought it blown? It just um, there's nothing I could do about it that particularly, So I found a pay phone. Of course I tried, and in those days you only had had a house phone. And um, I finally did reach him and I said, you know, I listen, was listening to the radio up here in four Ord I heard and I heard our hour song. He said, oh yeah, yeah, I said to yeah, yeah, Well you know they said Jane and Arnie. Well he said, you

weren't here. Oh but didn't I sing? He said, now we took your part off. Okay um, And and basically that was They did another two that was a top ten record, and they had two other singles that didn't do it quite as well, but didn't done to Clark and they had a lot of exposure and stuff. Now tell my audience the derivation of the song, Jennie Lee, Can we say that on their radio? Yes, on a podcast. Any language is possible. She was a topless dancer, exotic dancer.

I guess you would say, um, you know, first she was the first topless dancer we'd ever seen. You know, that was an adult type. Um, and so we should go downtown l A to to see her dance. I do have her little at someplace in my and that collection of stuff. Because parking was free as I remember, So it was down in l a And and somehow it came up with the bumps, the bump bump bump

stuff and and just through in her name. Basically we didn't really talk about what she did, right, but the inspiration did come from from Ginnie Lee, who was what was pretty famous at the time. So you're out of the army in September, that's what happens. Well, you know, I'm thinking, um, I had come home for on leave once, and of course I went right up to Jan's house

and and he and Arnie and others. Now there's an entourage, guys smoking cigars, the suits, guys and it I could tell it was strained by this time because they're looking for a follow up single. And I spent maybe ten or fifteen minutes there and I said, you know, let's see you guys later. I left, but I had it just didn't have the same vibe. It was so much fun,

just the guys just singing around a piano. And now this was now this was business, so I didn't feel too badly about it, but still it would have been fun. That would have liked to have at the time thought that experience. What's probably pretty neat. But anyway, I just chalked it up to, you know, they already have a career, and I had no idea when or not he would last or not. So I went back, finished the service,

came back. Uh, our same old buddies called me up one night and said, we're playing sam Lot football back at UNI High and like we used to do on Sundays, you know when it comes that sure got there. I didn't think Jan would be there because I mean, he's he's now, he's now our records star, you know, rock and roll star, and lo and behold he was there, and so you know, everybody's friends and it was just like get ever it was after that game he approached

me and said, I want to work on some music. Yeah. Man. I tried not to look too excited because I was going, why, you know, don't don't you have another partner? And I probably, as I remember, I did, to ask, well, where's Arnie? Because I just didn't want to go up and fool around them, you know, get interested and then not have any part of it. Really, he said, I don't know, Arnie,

just he just isn't interested. He isn't interested. Who the hell would not be interested in being on the Dick Clark Show and hanging out with the Nette Funicello and Frankie Avalon and owns. People are just so I said, hell yeah, man, I'm let's go. Followed him up to his house and it was just back to the normal, right to the football game. He went way to his house. Yeah,

it was Sunday, you know, nothing else to do. He was at u c l A by this time, so he did have classes the next day, and I was at City College in Santa Monica, and so we did have classes on Mondays. So hell yeah, Sunday night we worked on some songs. I didn't really have very much, but um, I mean songs are as you know. I mean, if you don't have the material, it doesn't matter what what you know, how well you sing or don't sing, or or your arrangements or any of that stuff, or

what label you're on. If you don't have that piece of material, you really don't have a career. And since we are full time students, didn't really have a lot of kid to sit around and and write songs. I mean that takes some effort and some time to do. So normally we would just try and find songs that were on on small indie labels and cover songs. Now, Jan had a beautiful scam. I don't know if you knew about this one. He had print shop at University

High School. Mr Fukuzawa, by the way, you remember him, of course, Mr Fukuzawa taught Jan very well how to print a letter head and a business card and all that. So Jan printed himself a letter head with a little logo. I don't know where he came up with that, and I had a little microphones on it and stuff and it the title on the letter half was k JAN Radio k J A n the Voice of bel Air.

So he's a smart guy. So he would get all the addresses of all the labels that he could find, all the major most of the majors weren't real interested in rock and roll particularly, but he would find all the names of all the little indie labels. And then he would tell him that he was a DJ on Cage and Radio and that he would appreciate them sending their new releases to him at this one one one one, Linda, Flora Drive and bell Air and he has five DJs

come fall five and I was one of them. And so he needed five copies of every of every single We will go to his house, you know, on weekdays and mailed already come and there would be hundreds of records, hundreds. We'd open them up and he had a turntable, of course, a couple of turntables, and we'd listen and if there weren't any good, that was thrown into no good pile

and then saved our our favorites. So we got a lot of um, a lot of good ideas, and a lot of songs that were on such small labels they were never gonna make it to the radio. And that's how you found It's like dumb Moost more or less. Then we take the turkeys that we didn't want and

we would um. We had this little spot above the bell Air Country Club and they had a very nice golf course, so we were up above maybe a couple hundred yards, and we would take those four fives and just frisbee them out and see how far on the green we could get them, for a good half an hour until we ran out of somewhere. There's a lot of buried up there, exact worth probably a lot of money. So how do you end up you're going to school.

He's going to school. What is the next step, Well, the next step is, yeah, we we just didn't really have any material, particularly that that was very inspiring. We knew that we had, you know, he already had a top ten record in his portfolio, you know, so we had to at least have something as good as that song. It was a pretty good song. So we we we tried, we tried to come up with something um and then

he went to the Arwin. Irwin, by the way, was owned by Doris Day and it was pretty much attack shelter. I don't think she expected to have any hits on that level. Now her son became Terry Melt. We gave a famous producer, very ironic, So Terry, that's probably so. We were nineteen twenty, so he was probably fifteen. So Jan wanted to take me into to Beverly Hills to meet the Arwin staff and the A and R guy and explained that Arnie was no longer in the picture

and that I was the new guy. So I thought, okay, you know, it should be cool and still have a record deal. And uh, we showed up for the meeting and got introduced to everybody. And uh, almost in front of me. I think they said, you know, to Jan, get Arnie back, because that was already it was already a name, you know, with it was recognizable names. So you know, now you're starting all over with somebody else, you know. Well, sticking to this one, Jan said, up,

I can't reach him. He's not interested. We pretty much left there with without them saying that that they would release anything promise. A few weeks later they bounce us off the label. Jan remembered meeting two young guys that were for Sam Cook, and he said, matter of fact, these guys wrote, um, wrote a hit for Sam called Wonderful World. It's a it's a ballady. We weren't looking

for ballads. But at least they're songwriters and that they had something to do with, you know, they were kind of gophers actually, um, but at least they wrote a hit song for Sam. And I guess Jan and Arnie had cross paths with Sam Cooke. They were on a bill together a couple of times, and these guys would always be in the entourage and Jan for some reason liked them, respected him and thought they were pretty cool guy.

They dressed well too, they looked they licked the part and we didn't dressed like they did, but they were sharp, you know. So Jan said, I'm going to call these guys. We need managers, that's what we need. I'm going but I don't know what a manager does. That's how they managed. They somehow they manage. So I'm going to call these guys and just see if they have any interest in working with us. So okay, So he says, I'm gonna call let's see. I got their card and it uh

was Lou Adler. He said, I'm gonna call this guy Lou. And then he has the guy who works with Herb, Herb Alberton, I think his name was Herb Alberton. He calls him up, tells him that he has a new new partner. He wants to see if they have any interest at all. Of course they were interested coming a meeting with us. He gave him the address and directions how to get to this beautiful bell Air home with a beautiful view and all that. So when they got there,

they were pretty pressed with him. So they were in their shoot unit editors neat suits and their little thin ties and had a little type buttons, little pins. I mean, they were they were dressed to kill man. Their first recollection of the two of us was we weren't wearing any shoes and you know, very Californian, and that being

went off with both of those guys. This is a whole now that become because obviously Arnie Ginsberg was dark and he was a Jewish kid, olive skinned, and Jan was the blonde, blue eyed, you know, great looking guy. And then they saw two blondes, they went, this is very unusual because we'll be going up against Frankie and Fabian and Bobby Rydell, all those guys. Because still most of the industry was on the East coast. They thought just even the look was very very interesting to them

and could could really work. Then of course, then it came to finding the song. Well, they were getting demos all the time too, you know for Sam stuff, and some of it wasn't suited for Sam. So they went through all their demos and they came up with baby Talk. So it's Leu and Herbert came up with baby Talk and thought that would fit our style perfectly. Don't shoot. The four of us worked on baby Talk, Don't We

finished it, but it was cut in Jan's music room. Yes, we we would make make the records exactly the opposite from how you're supposed to do it. We do the vocals and the piano first, and then take it to the studio guys that put on earphones the studio eyes and try and play. Now you think, you know, to the normal ear you'd think, yeah, that that's not that hard to do. But to a real trained musician studio guy, they would say, man, this thing, it's just the meters

all over the place. I didn't sound that bad to us, but again to a real good posisition, so it's very hard for them to play to it. But you know, they make it work, and you don't throw on the yaketyak saxophones. And you had yourself, had yourself a record, someone's up to Lou and herb to go shop at, which they did. Found it a little indie label called Dora. Now Deray had just had the Teddy Bears hit, so they had had a that was a big that was

the number one recording. So they were flush and cash man because they had had this big record and they liked Baby Talk, and we're willing to put it out and make a deal like three at least three singles and an LP. Jan and Arnie never had enough material to make an LP. I was pretty exciting. We get to do an LP too. Wow. Anyway, I'm sory short. They put it out and it was another top ten record, and of course we did go on Dick Clark and we realized that, or probably Lou realized that we needed

to stand out and be totally different. So he dressed us up pretty pretty good, but we wore some kind of you know, brighter colors or something that was not what the normal guys were wearing. And from there just kept getting more and more casual, and pretty soon we were showing up and you know, bathing suits and stuff. But in surfboards, okay, you cut baby talk, how does it roll out? From there? Then it's just the grind and then from there it's like, okay, that's neat. You

got a top ten ver. Yeah, you're right. The interesting part about that was all I ever wanted to do is see my name on a record. And if I saw my name, it was Jan and Dean that army, and I could show it to my friends. That's single my name. That's all I ever need, right right? I saw that look pretty good, you know, two to three days later, going if I could only hear it on the radio at least once or twice, I think that

would be pretty cool too. So Lou told us that kf w B, which was within blocks of you, is as I remember, um, kf w B was going to be Mitchell read it was one of the top DJs is going to play it and then have a challenge of other new records and then you're to call in and vote for you for the winner. And so he's going to be playing it tonight at round seven o'clock. So we're all to listen. We're to tell our friends to get on the phone and call. So we did.

We let all our friends know and we I don't remember who we went up against, and maybe it was like maybe three singles and then then they would tally the votes. So the first time I heard it on the radio, I nearly threw up. I mean, it was it was really really something. I mean, it was pretty I'm exciting. So okay, now we've heard it, and then we heard our competition. Competition was okay, and then here waiting and we're calling and our parents are calling, and

so when the announcement comes who won? Uh baby talk one? Oh man? You could have just then he got played again because it won. We were just ecstatic. We were so excited. Then the second night, now the winner of course goes against the you know, two more new singles that we won again, you know, like three or four times in a row. Funny. And I remember telling, we told, that's just so excited. Well, I don't know whether maybe

Jan new, but I didn't. I'm talking to Lou on the phone, and I was so excited Luco's you know, we her and I managed b Mitchell read, oh I see so again that's a kind of the the awakening that nothing is really what you think it is. There's

always something going on. But I mean they ended up being top ten records, so despite but that helped that we were on the charts in l A because Las big market, because Dick Clark would not play a record unless you were on on a regional chart from hopefully from a major city, because you know, because of all that Paola stuff that was going on, and we were able to show him this is from kf to to be the number one rock and roll station in l A. And if we're in the top ten. There he said,

you guys are on my show. You know, once you're on Dick Clark, you were home free. That was hundreds of thousands of recor it's just for one appearance, one and if he brought you back, it would double the numbers again. And then that was his regular daytime show. Then he had that nighttime show. You made the nighttime show. That was huge, huge, So we did it all in all over the years. I think we did something like

Clark shows. I mean, he loved us, We loved him, and he's a great guy, very much a professional and obviously had super talent. So what follows up Baby Talk Herb and Lewis song, which was just a valid um. I think it charted most of our records at least charted, but it wasn't the top ten record. And then we did a couple more that weren't weren't They were on the charts, but still were not top ten records, and

then our contract kind of ran out. Um. There was another indie label that started right up the street, Liberty Records s Home Lenny's Dad, Um. So they were the new breed of indie level. They weren't old guys that were left over from from you know, the Capitals and Columbia's and stuff. Uh, this was really kind of younger rock and roll guys. UM, so we wanted to be on Liberty. We worked on a version of Heart and Soul. I don't know why. I don't remember whose idea it was,

but it wasn't a very good idea. But Jan liked it, Blue liked HERB thought it was it it stunk, and I didn't particularly like it. It was always the you know two and two um that usually Jan and Blue usually won, so we at least we recorded it. Everybody was not interested in that song. That too was a doo wopper, but we were. For some reason, Blue and Jan liked it, so they weren't getting off that that that song. So they made a two record deal with

Gene Autrey's label, which was called Challenge. Now they had boy. It was a Challenge was absolutely named um but he had Tequila. It was a great song, of course, so he had had a hit on that small little label of his. He was multifaceted. He was into everything from real estate too, you name it. He was, don't I think he had? He owned the baseball team for a while so a fascinating guy, but the label was still not where we wanted to be. Anyway, we released that,

it was like a top thirty or twenty record. It just okay. And in the follow up, we just wanted to get out of the deal, so we gave him just something filler song and we were gone. And then we went to Liberty. So what what convinced Liberty did go with? You know that we didn't have anything to start clean because they had their own producers and stuff, so they were thinking if if if we struggled, that they could step in, and they had some of the people,

you know, younger people working for them. Um. And by this time Herb had moved on because he didn't think we were going to do much after that. He really didn't like I didn't like that song. So they broke up and Lou Lou Lou and Herb were standing in their little office on sunset over a Chinese laundry and they had two assets and when was the tape recorder and one was Jan and Deine. So Herb said, well, would you mind if I took the tape recording listen?

Oh no, no, okay, that's yours. You know, good luck Herbert had gone off and recorded with harm with our money, used our money to record a song that he thought Lou would like and that Lou would realize that we probably didn't have much future, and that Lou would go with herb. It was some trumpet record, and louis gonna, who's gonna buy a record with the guy playing some

stupid trumpet, and so that's okay. When okay, you can keep your demo and and the recorder that plays it, and you know, good luck, and off he went, ended up with Lonely Bull and all of that. The Tijuana Brass so um. We struggled in the beginning, and then we came upon a do opera and we knew that that was going to be one of our last two operas, which was called It was an old fifties forties, late forties fifties classics song called Linda and Us, so it was kind of our style, and yet it was all

sung in falsetto. We had not done one of those before, so I sang it all in falsetto. And now we're double tracking for the first time. We're starting to get that little bit fatter sound, and we're liking it and at that time we did I think we did Barbaran again with fattening the vocals, so we're pretty excited about now we're back in the vocal group. Even though it's just all us um, it's fun to sing harmonies. So we do Lynda on Liberty and it's it's a top

twenty song, so exactly. So that meant that we would get to do uh an LP. Of course, only took one hit to make make you to eleven songs, which is not that As you know, it's not that easy to do. It's hard enough to do one, let alone eleven more, and you don't want to give up too many real good ones on that because you want to save them for singles. So anyway, we do Linda m hmm. About that time, we didn't have our own band, but

we used studio guys um. So when we played live, usually the person that that booked us would have to hire an opening act that we're self contained, they would play all their own instruments. And this one particular time, right around the lended time, we had an offer to go play and remember Hermosa Beach and we said, okay, so who's the band. They're like a local local band. They've had a couple of records out. They're called the

Beach Boys, so okay, and they'll learn your stuff. That we only had like three hits, so they had to just learn three hits of ours, and in filler songs, we just do you know, classic rock stuff. That was easy enough. We got to the high school gymnasium type thing and they were in addressing room waiting for us, and they had already, of course been practicing. So now we're all together practicing. These songs sounded great. We were

happy with it, they were happy with it. We had heard their songs they had at a picture time, they had surfing and surfings so far. A Servant Safari was the first time they were on the national charts. I don't know how how successful it was, but it was least it was on the national charts. So we um.

They go do their opening set and we're called out, uh introduced, and then they do our songs plus a couple of things that we kind of just worked out together, you know, Chuck Berry, just classics, and we closed with maybe Linda probably as being our newest hit. We wave goodbye to the audience and we go off stage. Well, the buyer runs up, goes, you know, hey, you're supposed to play, you know, till ten o'clock. It's nine fifty.

You owe me, you know me, ten more minutes. So we we did all the songs we know, well, you know you owe me ten more minutes. So what we're gonna do? So we told the beach Boys, we've got to go back on and fill for you know, ten minutes or something. And it's said, it sounded stupid to redo your songs, and we didn't want to do that, so I said, what about. We said, let's do your songs. We'll do that. We know surfing and surfants safari. Well enough, let's just do yours again, because now it's been a

couple of hours since you did them. We just left stage. I said, you'll sing our songs. Why don't we know them? They're not that hard to sing, and it'll be kind of fun. Will be a vocal group, all right, So two extra vocals in there, and we did surfing and surfings so far, and we strung him out long enough to do our ten minutes, and then we said goodbye, and everybody was happy and we went that was fun.

That was really fun to seeing all those four part harmonies and doubling the falsettos and man, this was pretty cool. So we exchange phone numbers and now we were thinking about this LP we had to do, and we're also thinking that this kind of beach culture thing, I mean that we lived at the beach too as well. We should start thinking about doing stuff about California instead of the duop stuff and move on. So, yeah, that was

a good idea. So we have their phone numbers and we decide, okay, standard operating procedure was you had to hit sing going you'd put that title on your LP, so Linda had to be in the title. So just to have a Linda sound a kind of dopey. So he said, what about if we say Jan and Dean take Linda surfing, they would tie in the surfing. Um call up that guy Brian and see if I'm sure he won't mind. He's a songwriter, they have those songs

have already been out once. They're not gonna make any more money off with the shelf life is you know sixty days that the most so as a songwriter, and he could keep the publishing, he should be excited. We call him. Of course he's excited, and we said, well, you could play the tracks too, if you wanted to get the extra extra money. They were all for that. They all showed up. We did uh Surfing Surfing Safari with our extra two vocals, and unfortunately there was only

to surf songs ever written. It's hard to fill a whole album with two surf songs, so but we to be you know, Hamburger help her some way through in there. I don't know, but we really liked that whole surf thing. So Brian said, do you want to hear our next single? I said, oh sure, We're still all sit in the studio together, and he plays surf in USA. We went

it's really good, obviously, really really good. But we said, Brian, you know, um, that melody is Chuck Berry's melody, because we all love Chuck Berry, so that's his melody, sweet little sixteen. Don't you know he can't just take somebody else's melody and just change the words. Yeah, it's not not legal, and he's gonna sue you for that and will end up not being your publishing or anything. You're

just gonna have to give that money to him. And Brian says, well, my dad said it was okay, said, well, your dad works in the machine shot. You know, I'm not sure he really knows, you know, what's legal and what's not. But we're telling you. You know you're gonna get sued. So he said, wow, you know really because oh I we jumped in and said, well we know Chuck, which we did, and we can call him up, negotiate and get the song and then you know, we can do the song. He goes, no, nope, I'm I'm gonna

do Surfin Sad. But I do have another song. Let me show you this one. Maybe you'll like this one. Two Girls for a Free Boy. Yeah, that's pretty good. But Brian, that doesn't make any sense. You wrote this surf City song, So why don't you you finish surf City, will finish surf in USA and get the deal from Chuck. That way you you'll do something that you totally wrote that can stay in your publishing company. No, I don't want to do that. I'm tired of surf City here.

So it was half finished, so either take it or leave it, so we'll take it. So obviously it was a great song. Um, so luckily we we got that song from Brian, and both songs came out around the same time. They were both top been records. Virus was number one. We were the first surf song to ever ever hit that number one Now isn't be credited to both Brian and Jan Yeah did you What did you do? Win the record? If anything, That's what I was trying

to figure out. I actually have the handwritten lyrics in my files. I've been offered by some Japanese guy offered me like twenty grand for it, but I'm keeping it anyways, it's handwritten, it's Brian's writing. I cross out a couple of lines and with my very distinct I didn't write in cursive. I printed because I was in the school

of architecture, so I only knew how to print. So I wrote in a couple of lines were all mine that I changed because Brian called the woody a thirty three woody and they didn't make a woody, and he called it a truck. I have a panel truck at call of Witty, and a panel trucks, not a woody. Panel trucks is a pound truck, solid metal side. So Brian, you know, panel trucks are not a Woody, but the station wagon is a woddy. So I got a wagon

that call of wood Okay, that's okay. So I crossed all that how he said it in the original lyrics it doesn't have a radio, and I said, Brian, we're young people. For for a car that we're driving to not have a radio, that's just not right. So it should be I ain't got I came up a back seat or a rear window. That rhymes, because that's where the surfboard goes. So you take out the back seat back window, because it's a longboard, it's going to go out the back So is that okay? Oh yeah, okay,

that'll be fun. And a few other things we tweaked, so I probably ended up writing probably more in jam don't remember what he wrote. And we didn't get an arguments about stuff like that. But technically I should have been one of those writers. But you know, I didn't think of it. And again we thought in terms of shelf life being sixty ninety days, and you didn't want to get in a fight over you know, something like that, because you're moving on to the next thing, you know,

a month and a half later. Two So anyway, it came out great. We discovered at that point we'd put together the Wrecking Crew guys. Jam was hand picking some of these guys and the original Wrecking Crew was Phil Spector's band, and then we took the guys we really liked and then added in Glenn Campbell, Leon Russell, if You, and Larry Nick Doll I few really really good guys, and that became our version of the Wrecking Crew and that track that it was a real breakthrough for us

because it just was so damn good. And even Brian heard that Brian was still using his guys in the studio. We pointed out, Brian, you know, you can pay these guys three hundred bucks. They'll get it in two takes, and you can probably do three or four songs in a session instead of waiting for your guys to get off the road. He'd retired from the road. He didn't much like the road. He loved creating the records, and

there was no nothing special about singing live. To him, it was tedious and it was time traveling all that where he could be producing and writing. So it's a perfect deal. The genius is at home writing and arranging the tunes, and when you get off the road the other guys, and being on the road, you're promoting your your music. You have to do that part of it too, that's part of the whole package. So it was great. They'll be out singing live, Brian will be home writing

and arranging. So Brian heard the track two to Surf City and he said, how'd you do that? You know, we gave him hal Blaine's numbers. They call him. You know, they'll bring all the same guys you just heard there and they'll do your tracks. Leave open guitar stuff for Carl, because Carl had very distinctive he had that surf guitar thing. Now, so you just you guys, your records are vocal records. You don't need to waste a bunch of time on,

you know, drum tracks. And Dennis sometimes shows up and he's been drinking, and these guys make it that much easier for you. And all you have to do is worry about the vocals, a few signature um instruments, and your music. So the next big hit after Surf City is Honolulululu, right, another top ten record. I don't know why, but it was cute and had a little surf that

that surf guitar. A lot of our records didn't have guitars as much as we should have had um, but that had a little slide guitar which was kind of neat, had a little Hawaiian field to it, so as the top ten. Then we had Drag City after that, and we're switching over from the beach stuff into the car stuff, and Drag City was it was a natural and Brian

helped help write that one too as well. And from there, I don't remember, a dead Man's Curve is thrown in there, and a New Girl in School New on School was a song that Brian had written many many years before called when Summer Comes Gonna Hustle You, and our record company told us you can't say hustle you radio. It's okay say it on your show, of course. Okay, when Summer Comes Gonna Hustle You. Um, I don't know, so

we rewrote it. I mean we knew that the tune was right and that the whole the whole arrangement was perfect. It didn't really matter what what the subject matter was. Particularly so New Girl in School that became, and that was the top twenty record. So and dead man's skirts thrown in and right, well, sir, and a few others. I don't know. I can't remember. I can't remember. Okay, how do you get the little old lady from Pasadena? So I going to Pasadena? You know last time I

saw your You remember, um? One of chance buddies, Jam by this time is in Actually he was premed at u C. I. Now he's actually in med school or just about being med school. So one of our old high school buddies that also was going through med school

with Jan. They were in some class together. Obviously they weren't listening because they had Our friend Don had told us that he had seen on television a commercial for the Southern California Dodge dealership where there is a character a little old lady sitting behind the wheel of a superstock Dodge, because Dodge was trying to appeal to you know, hot rods and two younger people and rebranding themselves at least muscle cars. So it was a pretty clever commercial.

So this little old person is is driving this car and there, I mean we all used to in those days, every young person at a car any time, every time you'd stop for a signal there would be a race. Yeah, almost always. There's always some car around that that you know that that these guys and they're just there. Always

was a race. So she does a little street race was some some other car, don't remember what the car was, and of course she blows him off and then comes to a screeching halt, and the camera comes around by the side and and she turns right to the camera, the smoke still coming up from from her skidding to a stop, and she says, put a dodge in your girl, Juney. Yeah, that was a really clever We like that. We were also starting to mix in a little humor and our stuff,

so this was this was perfect. So the juxtaposition of the old person, you know, in a street rod was interesting to us. So we thought Jim and Don thought this would be a great thing. So they started started writing it coming up, and we also thought somewhere in there that once we finished, I mean, we've had at this point maybe four or five Top ten reactors in a row. That you go to dodge. You say, by the way, you have the character, you can throw in a tailor made song and this will be a top

ten song easily. So anyway, we finished it, knew it was a hit, Um sent it off to Dodge. They never even answered us. I think we tried to reach him a couple of times before it came out and never responded. So we put it out and that also was a top ten record. How did you end up being the host of the Tabby Show? By default? I think we're the only local guys. We were the closest. We were the closest guys group that to the Santa Monicacific auditor. I was about ten minutes away. Jan was

probably eighteen minutes a way to twenty minutes away. Everybody else was, even the Beach Boys. They don't have to drive up from Hawthorne. So um. We also were in school so they could work with us on the show. Where the other guys are out out working, we could meet them after school or yeah, cut to school. So we we were just were in the right place at the right time. Um, so it just made sense. I

think we talked the Peach Boys into doing it. They also wanted the Beach Boys, and we were the only ones that Beach Boys will listen to it at the time. So that film has become legendary legendary, legendary. What was the experience of actually being there? Well, at the time, you know, he didn't know it was legendary, and we knew most of them, not most of the people. We knew at least half the people worked with, so including James Brown. We knew what James did, so it wasn't

so you know, we were alown away. Uh. We had a joining dressing rooms with the Stones, and of course they didn't talk to anybody, so I think we nodded to one another. Since we were the hosts, we didn't have time to hang around. Most of those other people just probably hung around and then eventually all talked to one another, kissing, because we did it in two nights, just in case we screwed up something. Um. So we

we were you know, we had lines to do. Plus we were I think we were changing costumes for each each person that we introduced, we wore something different, So we're kind of busy. Didn't really have time to hang with these people too much. Um So, just being busy, I didn't really have time to absorb it. Um. But once we saw it, we knew it was We knew it was special. I love the titles. I think the

titles are so classic. Um and then when Dick Clark dug it out of the vaults and bought it from dusted it off, um M. He always knew that was a very classic piece of film. And then it deserved to now be redigitized, and it needed to be properly marketed, and and it had to be seen, which it ultimately has been. So meanwhile, you're the two of you are going to school. How much you're working live weekends summer so we do spring break and summers. Were you making

any money? Yeah? And what do you do with the money to save it? To spend it? Bought stock? Really, we did a Coca Cola commercial and they would either pay us cash or in stock. And Jan took cash he was buying a house. I took stock and it doubled. It doubled and split and doubled and split, so it dip pretty well. Now we were pretty pretty good with our money. So let's just assume without you had ultimately

had a second career. But if you just had your music career, did it generate enough money to live for the rest of your life? No? Not not like today, Not like today. Okay, so you're in school. You're going to City College and then you transfer to usc IS and you say, you're in the architecture school. Did you want to become an architect? I thought I did, But once I got there and they kept telling me I wasn't cut out for that, I finally believed him. Um. So they did have fine arts too as well, and

advertising arts, so I went into more advertising art. I think my degree was advertising design or something like that, which would include marketing and branding and all of those things. And that's all stuff I was kind of doing for us, So it made sense when all of a sudden, I said, yeah, that makes a lot more sense because I could be creating our own packaging because I knew that was going to be important. Knew the visuals were going to be important.

The Beatles, when when they hit everything changed, I mean it became serious and we could see how how much attention to detail that that that they were spending the time really thinking every little piece of their career. And we said, we, you know, to keep up, we have to do that, and most acts are going to have to do that. You're gonna have to think of the big picture, all of it, and not just focus on I gotta have that hit song, you know, you have to have that, but you got to have all the

other pieces in place too, and branding. Branding was a huge thing, and I don't ever remember the word being used in the sixties. Nobody really got it. I saw Peter Paul and Mary album once and then I saw how there it was stylized print for Peter, Paul and Mary, and I remember thinking then that type never changed, and I thought that is really cool too, to think of it as a product and to tie the visuals into

what you're doing. Is remember that was kind of kind of hippie hippie folk type, and the pretty much when you saw it, you thought Peter, Paul, Mary, and then they could just use the P, P and M because it was so recognizable. I thought, you know, that's really really neat how all that ties in, and of course the written word ties in. I had Tom Hanks once tell me how much love to read our liner notes

because there was so much in there. And he got the whole, you know, the whole big picture, and appreciated that kind of humor thing that that strung through it all. I certainly got that too. So let's get to the accident. Now, when the accident happens, it seems that your careers cooled off a little bit. Would you say that it's true? Well, yeah, but it was somewhat by design because we knew we had a television series that we were going to be doing.

It was bought by ABC. We were going to be on debut the same season that the Monkeys debut, and screen gems and all that. They were all intertwined with them and us, and we would have probably been on each other's shows and helped cross promote things, um in separate channels. I think they were in NBC. I remember we were in ABC. So we knew that being on TV once a week, I'm gonna yes. So we knew that that exposure was just going to be way above

anything we'd ever done. We were looking at Ricky Nelson ocousely dude sing that damn song and that and each one of his little shows and it was a gold record, So we weren't really worried about that end of it. We also understood that we needed to keep our a material from We weren't going to resign with Liberty. We're going to have our own label or not have our own label and justorated by some warners or even done

you'll want to do to do um distribution deal. Wey not have our I mean, we're getting all this exposure. We don't need a label to do the exposure. We're going to be doing it on TV. And louis still managing you with this and uh hal Blane had a part that he would play recurring part in the show. It was it was neat. It's like a little road show. But we would get lost and and all sorts of other things outside of the music of somehow getting to

that concert. There were storylines, you know, so and then later, you know, years later, looked back and a lot of little side things that we were going to do became like we were gonna do a little parody of Rout sixty only ours is gonna be Routed sixty nine. But we had corvettes, we had sting rights, and we often drove them to two concert dates if there was within a hundred fifty miles. We thought it was fun. But all those little side adventures of getting arrested, a couple

of homes, getting lost, and all those things. We would make make a show out of it. But we'd kind of parody some of these other television shows two at the time, long story short. When I look back many years later and looked at some of the rough ideas of where it was going to go, it was almost Saturday Night Live. Kinds of skidding that we would do. But anyway, so we do the pilot. The pilot seals we don't want to give any of our A list

songs to Liberty. You were kind of winding it down. Um, we didn't want to leave them with anything, and made sure that once we left, the cupboard was bare and we weren't prolific m hm master makers because we would cut just what we needed and that was it. So it wasn't going to be all a lot of stuff floating around. We didn't want them to have any stuff to compete, and so it was more or less thought out that, at least record wise, So we cut back

because it didn't matter. We knew what was the future was going to be. But unfortunately Jan had that automobile accident and all went away. So how did you find out he had the accident? Uh? Just school met n SC came up to me. You know, I was just walking across the campus and somebody came up to me, an old friend and said, hey, I heard on the news. Uh that just he just got into school, so he had the car radio and I've been there for a couple of hours, so I just heard it. Jan had

a bad automobile accident and Beverly Hills. Is he okay? I know had this first, I've heard of it, and how to go to the pay phone, you know, there were no phones, and I'm called lose office and I found out that it was. It was pretty serious at that point, so nobody knew how whether or not he would ever recover or not. He was in a coma he had, Yeah, he did have permanent brain damage. So he had permanent brain damage. Uh do you immediately realize

that this is over? Yeah? Yeah, it was pretty pretty obvious. Um, but you know I triggered. There was a reason I was going to school, But there's a reason he was going to school. Is that we knew that this rock a room never gonna last forever, at least for us or for about anybody. You know. It does have a shelf like too, So this is I guess this is what I planned for and I just graduated. Any when I was in in into my master's program. I don't know why as a graduate student, and it didn't really

need to go, but I went just in case. I thought, I've maybe going to law school because a USC had a good law school. I thought, if we really do make this show work, I should probably know a little bit about about the law. I guess why not? And I figured if Chan was still in mid school, I didn't know how this was all going to work. But just you know, I thought maybe we could do both. But I was pretty sure it couldn't. But I don't know. Okay, just go back to chapter. You must you know you're

a hit act on USC campus. She must have been a big star. You would think you would have thunk. Um. I think I've been there so long and I was just one of the guys. Because it didn't really feel like it. It wouldn't pay much attention to me. I don't think. I think had we done the television show have been much different. Um. When I first got to USC, most of the most college kids didn't particularly like rock

and roll. Really, they liked folk music. You see relevant music, uh, jazz, anything about that rock and roll is for fourteen year olds. And I actually literally had friends with Tony. Are you still making that music for the fourteen fifty year old girls? Yeah? Well off campus? Were there perks of having this success? Um? A little bit? Yeah, what do you mean, Well, first, let's be obvious chick wise, right, Um, yeah, kind of, but it was still, uh, you know, when you're actually

on the road. It was a lot easier being away from home obviously, so I had to be careful around home. So um, we we were pretty careful. We didn't get any troll in town. Are you invited to things forget? Yeah, but we don't don't have time. Literally, don't have time either you're in school or you're recording, and that that's about all the time I had. Luckily, we didn't have time, So I imagine we could have gotten a lot more trouble had had we, you know, had some free time.

Drugs are not an issue. Jan what he was in med school. You know, they had their uppers and stuff that for studying. So other than that, yeah, we again, it really didn't have time for drugs either. So ultimately, after the accident, you had a second career being a graphic designer. How long after the accident do you start to build that business? Well, I had relatively started it before the accident, maybe a good year before the accident.

I was already starting to playing out, you know, our or some of our marketing stuff that we would want to do. A lot had to do with the television show. I knew clothing was going to be important. So I had learned silk screening at USC so I knew how to make the screens and how to do multiple colors and all that kind of stuff. And I knew that I had a feeling that this whole beach attire was going to be important. This is way before you know o P or any of the any of the surf

brands came along. I kind of knew that that that was going to be important, and that that stuff we could wear on television show. We used to do the Little Lloyd Saxton Show right here, right just down the street, as I remember, um, and we wear just I had I made up part. We sponsored a adult flag football team and Jan played on it occasionally. I played on it all the time because I owned it so pretty well, I could pretty well right myself whatever whatever I wanted

to do. You see that I paid for the jerseys and the pants and all the entry fees and all of that, so I I would wear every once in a while the Jan and Deane's bell Are bandits foot cultures and an amount of mail that we would get after that. We're gonna get that, you know. So I went to sc and I and I got out the screening and the stuff and and copied pretty much all the these did have stripes and piping and stuff. But in one color, I created the actual football jersey. We

sold thousands and thousands of those shirts. And I'm going if that comes off of Lloyd Taxton show, think about a national show that has twenty to thirty million people seeing it once a week and you wear a shirt like that, or you the skateboards. We had a sidebox surfing skateboards that we were going to work a deal with Makaha or one of those big board manufacturers at the time, and so all the ska pouring, all the surfing stuff, all the beat stuff. When we had little

medallions or surfer medallions made. He was going to be a slam could have been just amazing. So when Jane crashed and still had all those ideas. So since all of my friends were in the music industry. My good friends of Beach Boys. I went to them and said, this is what I'm doing. Now, I could be doing that for you. I could be your art director. You know, you don't have to deal with the art department. Um. I was learning how to get around our art department

in the Jam and Deine days. I said, it can be done. The artists can demand certain things about their their own packaging and on merchandising and all that kind of stuff. So each artist that I would pick, I'm just saying I will be your advocate and I will be the one that speaks for you out go in and talk to the record company and or to the art department and just demand that this is what the artist wants, okay, And that becomes a successful business and

you end up doing the logo for Chicago. And then of course in there's a TV movie. To what degree did you see that coming? Um, well there was a after all these years, so this was after chance accident. So by the seventies, you know, we've been out of the business for good ten twelve years. A buddy of mine that did go to law school, uh at at usc wrote wrote in a Janine p because he was fascinated about it all. I don't know why, but he'd written this, Hothy. He liked to write. That was his

way of unwinding from being a lawyer. And I helped him because you know, he couldn't get information from Jan and we were buddies, so all he would he would talk to me for hours and write it all down and record parts of it. And he wrote it. He was a decent writer. Um. He had a couple of connections and a couple of magazines and by the time he finished writing it, uh, and was about to submit it,

those those contacts went away. Then he sent it to others and people turned it down, saying nobody can remember who Chandine were. Um, so it's you know, it's a nice piece, but they name recognition is not there. So they went around around. He even sent it to Playboy and Playboy turned him down. So he was pretty much had been turned down. Uh. And then I suggested, what about Rolling Stone. I mean, they will understand that the

brand and understand the story. And it's still an interesting story about Jan's you know, recovery and stuff, because he was starting to at least function, and it's an interesting story, you know. So we submitted it to Rolling Stone and they loved it. Again. This is fourteen years after your last hit, and they we're going to put us on

the cover of Rolling Stone. Any Leibowitz came and took my picture at my graphics are office, which is was a sunset and Ogden and she hung around the office and took pictures of me at the office and stuff, and then we went down to the beach. She took shots of both Janet and my song. This is a

big time. I'm gonna be on a cover of Rolling Stone after all these years and about a five six page article as I remember, and it's just about to come out, and Nixon Quits bumped us off the cover, but we still got, you know, our six pages inside, which was really pretty neat. It's been nice to be in the cover though, um. And from that we got all sorts of calls from m I think I think it was actually theatrical calls in the beginning for actually

really nice, big high budgeted films. And then it all that stuff just went away, and it came down to television and we finally did make a deal of CBS and it came out on CBS Prime Time a couple of years after the article was written, and from there and all held broke loose because I put my love at the beach boys and Bruce. We all went to school together, Bruce's and neighbor Jan's Johnstone. I invited all the guys, but only Mike and Bruce decided that that

they wanted to do it, so they did. And then they work a lot. So right after that airing their out touring as usual, and Mike calls me from the road maybe a couple of three or four days after that first airing on on the CBS and says, you know they do. They do a lot of interviews, a lot of radio and stuff. And he said, we are you know, we once a while get questions about Janadeine and our relationship. He said, ever since that the thing was shown a week ago, it's of what people are

asking about is the relationship with Janadeine. Whether or not Janadeine will ever be able to perform again. Blah blah blah. He says, you need to do it. I'm sitting in my little graphics office, nice and very comfortable, you know, and going like it's taking me ten and twelve years to build it up to this, and if I love, I didn't ever leave. I mean, if I was gone for two or three days, my clients would get piste off.

So I wanted they were. They expected me to be right there and pick up the phone, so I knew if I strayed from that. There's plenty of other graphic designers now they're all competing. I was very careful and I thought, well, it sounds interesting, Mike, but yeah, I'll think about it. And then two or three weeks later, I'm telling you, man, it's not going away. And then about nine months later they showed it again and the numbers were even bigger than they were the first time. Um,

so Mike was all over me. Mike said, look, we're going out on a tour with our own plane. There's a seat for you, and Jan's cool. I've never been in a private jet before. I thought that sounded pretty interesting, so I said yes, and I got Jan up and around and he was well enough to be able to sing at least three or four songs, and that's what we decided to do. We went out on tour with them, and I've been doing it ever since. So I saw you at the star Woods. I don't know if that

was certain early. Okay, so you're working with jan and are you is what kind of shape is he in? Um? Well, yeah, we certainly had some uh. I mean he had about of physical limitations. I think most people that saw him thought he'd had a had a stroke because his right side was very slow. His arm was it was very difficult for him to get his arm up very far. Um. Left side was okay. Um. He had a phasia, which is a speech problem. Um, so sometimes you get confused

about words and things. But he also still part of his brain was still operating a hundred and seventy or eighty, and part of his brain was at sixty. So he's kind of savant in some regards. He could actually write music. And but if he if if he was writing the music and let's say it was sir City or something, and he's writing out apart for a some instrument, and then he'd have to put the title. He'd asked me

how to spell surf serve city. But then he'd go buttets in a flat and a flat he'd write at all came from different part of the brains, Like somebody stutters. You know that if they sing, they don't stutter. This was kind of the same way. So in some regards he was he still was a genius, and the other parts, you know, didn't work at all. So it was difficult. And the shows, what was it like being on stage with him? Um? In the beginning, it was the first maybe four or five years, it was it was okay,

it was fun. Um, but as his body, you know, we're all getting older as but his body was deteriorating faster than the rest of us, so that it became physically a lot harder and a lot more frustrating for him to get from point A to point B. I saw the I saw the Glenn Campbell documentary documentary that reminded me a lot of Jam, especially towards the end when he was couldn't remember stuff. Um and Glenn went through that for what a couple of months, but during

the film, I mean they did that one tour. I did that for over twenty years. I'm gonna think, holy cow, how the hell did I do that? Because the last maybe good seven years was really really hard. I didn't know how to how to undo it. If I pulled the plug on it. The fans were going to some of the fans would be angry that I would do that to him. Um, he wouldn't. He wouldn't be happy with it, even though even though it was so physically hard for him to do, Soli had so I couldn't

pull the plug on it. I just I didn't know how it was going to end. Um And then he just he just finally just wore out and passed away. Did you see that coming? Mm hmmm. In some regards, I thought he was going to outlive all of us, kind of Keith Richards, you know, exactly like Keith Richards. And but physically at least Keith can stand. And Jan was at the point where he was having to sit for almost the whole show. And I told him once once, it is at the point where you can't stand. It's

not fair. It's not fair to the audience and all that. So, and we're going to damage the brand. And I was worried about damaging the brand. And there's nothing I could do about it. So it did damage the brand. We probably should have pulled the plug maybe five years sooner. I couldn't do it at the time. How many gigs were you doing a year? Still doing thirty to forty to fifty at our peak. We were doing nineties throughout most of the eighties, and he regrets giving up the

graphic design business. No, not really, because that changed too. I didn't I didn't see c ds coming. I just never thought of that so soon thereafter, I think within two to three years, because my last my last design was Steve Martin album cover, so that was her late seventies early eighties, and by the mid eighties it was all c ds, so there was no no magic and packaging. It was just a little seven by seven square in

instead of twelve makes a big difference. Twelve it's a whole foot and if you opened up a gatefold, you have two ft by one ft. Now you're down to this little teeny package. So I probably I got lucky. I really got lucky. And I still do a lot of graphic design now anyway, and it's saw a photoshop and so much easier um graphic using digital tools. It's kind of fun and I can redo all of my own stuff. And I did my whole website myself on every single page, and it was really fun to do.

When I thought about how tedious all that stuff was in the seventies, to do stuff that I can do in minutes now that used to take me days to do. So I still dabbling and still enjoy it. And okay, you still go out too as a touring act and for the audience you call that now. I usually give the buyer a couple of different ways, what ever makes

them comfortable. But the basic one is the Janitine Beach Party featuring Dean Torrents, because I don't want to mislead people with J Deine, but Jandine's got to be in the title, so it's kind of a tribute to ourselves. How many, how much? How many times you do a year? Now? Probably do thirty to forty And how long do you foresee doing this? I have no idea. Okay, so you'll do it until you dropped it. You can't do it probably, So I only accept stuff that that intrigues me. You know.

I do a lot of corporate party stuff, which is kind of fun. But if it's a place I haven't been or haven't been for a while, I'm so used to. I don't go on vacation myself because it bothers me to. Actually, I have to pay for the PI and the rooms. I'm so used to somebody else paying for it makes me nervous to go on vacation. I go, that's just another two in that room. We're usually buyered? Is that? So? If if there's something interesting in someplace I've never been,

I really really enjoy it. Okay, this late date and he regrets, I can't think of any So if you had to do it all over again, you would have made the same choices. I think I would. Yeah, I think I would. I had lunch with Lou Adler maybe a year ago, and he's he's not even really tired. Actually, you know, he's still does so many stuff and a lot of good things. Heah, he sponsors kids camps and all that he's done, fabric this job with giving back to the community and all that stuff. But he's still

a super creative guy. But you know, I told him, I said, you know, if it weren't for you, I don't think Jan and Dean would have ever had a career because he really had total vision of the big picture. And he taught me that. But in the beginning, you know, we didn't see it, and he did. Um. He looked at me and he goes, you know, if it weren't for you, guys, maybe I would have never had I said, all right, right, interest right without that success Um, whatever

happened Arnie Ginsburg, Arnie Arnie. He went to USC he was in the School of Architecture. UM also became industrial to designer and stuff. He was very talented. He didn't care. He really didn't had no no love at all for for the MHM industry. He didn't like any of that. He was really uncomfortable on stage. He just we hardly ever. We talked about it briefly and never never talked about it again. I would see him almost every day at school and see Jane at night and on weekends. And

Arne had no regrets, and he was very successful. It was very talented, talented, good guy. And you ever get any royalty checks? I got one yesterday from Universal Pictures or something like that, and said, I made forty three bucks. That's better. You know. I know people get him in the sense, but well I have I keep all those those cracked me up but down. So I was looking for the check, and then you have to read a

few more pages. And then in this color, this bright pink highlighted, it says we do not write checks for under fifty bucks back the way till I'll make seven more dollars. And I got one from Kate ll Um that wasn't and it was this thing which I'm showing folks podcasts that psychobout an inch thick, you think, and from all over the world, and it was like thirty eight dollars, I think. So I gave it to my daughter's dog, who loves paper, and I have a picture

of him just chewing this thing. It's all in shreds and he's looking at the camera in his paper in his mouth and you can read part of it. Made sure it's his royalty state. And I said, obviously he wasn't happy with the with the check. There, Um, there is a there are a few people that are good. Sound exchange is really good. They've done a really, really good job. They called me up a couple of years ago and I wanted to know they hadn't been able

to give Jan his money. And there was a check like fifty or sixty grand that they had for him that was a couple of years worth of stuff. But I know where where do we send it? So I called Jan's widow on the East coast, found her and said there's a nice check waiting for you or should I send it? And she was thrilled, absolutely thrilled. So there are some people that trit you still pretty well. And do you find it's only people from our generation, you know, Jan and Dean. Where do the younger people

know the name or the songs? Are both? You just yeah, it's a whole gamut. It's We flew to um Italy last August, and for three months I was wondering why in the world I agreed to do that. And although it intrigued me to go to Europe, I just never played Europe before and didn't think, you know, like you're just saying, I mean, I don't remember getting I get a lot of mail from uk Um. We played in China of all places in the eighties, and I get still get mail from China, but I never got anything

from Italy. And I'm going so we're gonna fly twenty five hours over four hour drive from Rome to Sngalia. Then this beach party. But it was a music festival, thinking well, it's free, okay, so people will wander by the kind of go oh yeah, you know it might of the band's good, you know, so the music will be will be presented very nicely, but at least as

a festival, and there's synergy going on. There's multiple stages, and it's been going on for ten or fifteen years, and it was a big tourist thing from people in at least in Italy. The guy had a good track record and his stuff looked professionals. Okay, remember getting on that flight going oh my god, Okay, well I gotta do it. I just gotta do it, just hope it'll work. Got there, It wasn't a flight, wasn't that bad. Then picked us up. It's dark and getting a van, all

the guys and this guy's speaking Italian. You know, he doesn't speak any English, so we don't know what they all you said, but you must be taking us to the hotel. We tried for four hours and a couple of times he turns around in the dark and they went on these little streets and I'm going like, now, my band members are all, you know, on their phone, and look, they know where we're going, and they keep telling they keep telling you guy, hey, hey, you know

it's back. You missed there, and he doesn't speak Oh my god, and I'm going I knew I should have done this. I just knew. I'm calling the wife. I'm telling her in Huntington Beach. I'm saying, we're driving around in Italy. It's dark. This guy doesn't speak any English, and he keeps backing up and making you turns, and he goes, why did I do this? I knew I shouldn't have done this. We finally get to a hotel. It wasn't nice, and then that was okay, and the

air con worked. Okay, that's fine. And then next day we had off and they took us through this festival been going on for a couple of days. It was done so well us when I got this shirt from this is uh cracking cracking room. We played on their stage and stage was done nice, holographic design. Stuff was great, and it was very organized and there were people all sorts of ages dancing to the music. Oh this this is great. So I said, okay, can we see our stage?

And the guy was just producing the whole thing, said, well, your stages is down at the beach. This was in the middle of town, you know, I mean it's separated from all this. Yeah, it's it's about quarter mile down, but it's actually on the sand, and we put up a nice big stage and just you guys were Now we're not in the you know, and again in that synergy going on, I'm going, I guess anybody gonna walk down there? And I like that, Damn, this is going to be a staff. So I told him I was.

And then he said, oh, and years is not a free stage. It costs money. It's a hard ticket. I said, oh, this is a stiff. So I finally had the nerve to tell him I was very uncomfortable with that. I didn't think it would work. He said, no, we already saw twelve thousand pre st tickets and they'll be He'll walk up to and it was like fifteen and sixteen thousand people on this and they eat. You know, it's six or seven, right, So we didn't even go on till nine. And it's a it was a ninety minute show.

And there was groupies. Now that's why you asked. They were actually thirty year olds standing just around where the backstage here. He was, you know what, you want to take selfies and stuff? And I went, oh my god, So yeah, they were the sixty year olds and there was the thirty year olds. I don't know how they knew music, but they seemed in order, really really well,

and I just I'm glad I did it. And within hours though, you're back at the hotel's after midnight and you're checking out and you're doing that four hour drive back to Rome to catch a seven am flight to Copenhagen and then Companhagen to l A. But just still okay, you know, well, that's what being a rock star, you see what I mean? Right in? In addition, though, it shows that people still remember, still care. I certainly remember and care. This has been wonderful, actually the longest podcast

ever because we're getting your story. You really got in the groove. I really have to thank you. Yes, my guest here has been deemed Torrence Dean of jan and Deep. Thanks so much. Deep. I'm just happy anybody cares about I really care, and I know my audience will care. I mean, I won't even recount all the great stories you told because people have listened to this point and

know them. No, I couldn't shut you down. You were telling all those great stories which no one ever knew, like, uh, you know they were playing in Ormosa Beach with the Beach Boys. Story of sir City Lou Adler. I mean, I read your book, but there's even stuff here that wasn't in your book. I just again, you know, you write something you don't know. Is this interesting or not?

I don't know. You've always been super good to us, and I really appreciate it, so, uh, knowing that that you have this following, I just that's why I'm here. I don't do this. I think this is the first podcast I've ever done. I think it's definitive. I think we've got a lot of history here. That's one of the reasons I didn't want to jump ahead. You know, it's like someone's got to get it down just one step further. What about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

You care no good? No I could, I could careless. Um, you know, it's it's all subjective, but it really like any other Hall of fame, though, is is numbers metrics. It's pretty easy to figure out, and we've had more hits than two thirds of those other people that are

in there. And then they want to talk about if they want to talk about being pioneers and something, well we just talked about that, right, how many other people cut to two or three top ten records in a garage way before anybody else was doing it, you know, as teenagers. That's the part I'm I'm the most proud of.

It's young people figured out how to do it and did it with just some little, easy, little technology that that well, that's what's so great about it that all right, the business was being developed, like the Internet twenty odd years ago. Just exciting seeing what's going on now it's mature, not quite the same thing. But we were all in fatuous did with music. We were all playing music, and

you were certainly a pioneer. And as I say, I played command performance all the way through about two weeks ago. It sounded so great. And of course I always love sidewalk surfing, which is a you know, a reworking of Bryant's Catch a Wave, and uh, I knew your version first.

I was stunned when I heard catch Awave. Well, I was, you know, when I go back and hear some stuff, just to hear the excitement of the live show, because you know, we didn't really have that many people following us around and recording stuff, so it was very limited in film wise. You know, some of the stuff I see on YouTube of the beach Boys working on Good Vibrations, and some of that film is really really we didn't have any of that. We just didn't think of it.

You know, that was going to be later. We'll get to that later. It's okay, we don't have time to think about cameras and playing around and capturing that stuff. So it's all in my head, which I think we've got a lot of it down on. It's good to hear it on something like Command Performance and they go, yeah, I was right in the middle of that, all that excitement.

So I'm glad you glad you enjoyed it. Absolutely. As I say, A huge fan in terms of albums other than cartoon characters, Yours was the first album I bought, I think, and I still I still have the copy. I have basking tape on the corners holding the cover together. I'm not no, thanks so much. Hey, it's absolutely my pleasure, and again thanks for your support. I listen. I'm a huge fan. Believe it at that. Until next time, It's the Bob Left Sets podcast.