David Porter

when I was younger. I was born in the forties, so you can imagine what that was for a kid born in the Deep South with circumstances that were not favorable for him, yet he had to go forward. And so being a part of that kind of initial phase, the only way was up. In Memphis has shown great deal of proper regress through the years, and at this particular time it is a major progress from where it used to be in many positive ways. And then there are growths in areas outside of music that are very

positive as well. So I'm really really proud of this city and what it has done, as I mentioned earlier, for me and for those that I care about, and it's done wonderful things for many many people. And I've seen those kinds of circumstances and action as well.

samples of of of kind of all around. You mentioned Mississippi, Arkansas, and when whatever there are samples of of of of of things all around that plays a part in the meshing the melting pot of what makes for an interesting place. So there there are things that you you experienced in an ongoing way that was not like yesterday, but certainly you have no way of knowing if it will be similar to tomorrow. So Memphis affords you that kind of of

of of kind of potential. But also the musical influence of Memphis versus what what uh uh has been historically in Nashville is quite different in in respect that Memphis has never run away from the value of the blues, never run away from the value of R and B. Never run away from the value of the significant contribution of blacks in not only in the country this country, but in and through music, and so just that embracing of it that became a factor that motivates other young kids,

blacks and whites with aspirations to do music, that that's a good area to touch upon. And so Memphis makes a vast contribution to the to the significance of why there is they just intimilate for instance, or Charlie Rich for instance, or in Elvis Presley for other instances. I mean, but that's just part of the magic of what makes Memphis unique, the soulfulness that's never been compromised.

every day. But when someone gives you a spirit of non acceptance, don't be close to me, don't touch me, or don't drink from this water fountain of that kind of thing that tells you that they have a problem, not you, even as a kid, because I had to scratch my head in wonder what these people who think they're better do they ever use the restroom? Do theyny what toilet paper is? I mean, is there a difference?

It's just it's just it just made a young kid wonder and not necessarily call it for what it was, because you were not clear on what it was. But you know there was a difference. And that was the experience for quite a while growing up. And then the music on the radio. When I started listening to the radio, initially I was hearing you know, Pat Boone and Frank Sinatra and artists of that il before nineteen forty seven, forty eight, when I was like heading tw what eight

and nine years old. Then here comes a radio station called WDIA, and that gave me a sense of significance that made me one understand what race was, and two understand that this radio station was playing the music that was relatable and more digestible for people who look like me and the other music that I was hearing that I had to adapt to and appreciate, was really not necessarily for me, but it was something to hear. But I respected the value of good music, so I enjoyed

that as a youngstery as well. Because I didn't know any better than when I started hearing w DI. I I didn't know that I like WDI like that. So how did you discover you? W dia A and tell us more about the programming, what the DJs were like, and what the songs were that they were playing. Well. WDA was the first African American radio station in America.

They changed the format from pop country music to blues and rhythm and blues the early stages of rhythm and blues at that particular time, and that format involved with quite clarity are artists of the ILK of Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley, and how wof Jimmy Reid and eventually

BB King then Bobby Blue Blair. All of the artists that you were able to listen to gave you a clear picture why most of the world was saying, y'all all look alike, you're this, you're not whatever, But this music was showing young kids in blacks in that area that the personalities, in the uniqueness that was in those artists potentially was in each and every person that looked like me. So that gave that generation that I was a part of, a drive to fight, to work to

find the individuality that they believe existed in them. And so that radio station was amazing in that regard for getting you to see the value of you as a person.

music spoke to me in concert with the message. The personality of the artists spoke to me in contact with the uniqueness of them, and it was like music was in fact a language. I started seeing the value of that as a young kid, and it made me have aspirations to try to find what that unique disc it

possibly mean in my young life. So I started writing down lyrics and harm and melodies as I'm listening to songs being played on it that I was making up while I was listening to things that were being played. So it was it was that kind of magic with that format to WDA was having. In addition to that, they were making an offering of engaging more directly with the community. They were having talent shows on the radio.

They were having singing choirs that sang on Saturdays, the teen Tones as it teen Towns rather as they used to call it, where they would perform on the radio. And now at these the kids from all different schools that would come together to rehearse to develop a format that they were being instructed by one of the radio personalities on the station of WDA, mister A. C. Williams. So it was it was just such an unbelievable country contribution of radio at that time. It was an educational platform.

It was a spiritual platform on Sundays with church being played. But it also was a platform of seeing the individuality of black talents that were heard on that station, which was amazing.

didn't know. I was learning, but I felt that the first song I felt that on significantly And we've been Isaac and I had done a few records before this, but the first song I significantly felt that was a song on Sam and Dave called you don't know like I know. And when that record came out, I assumed that record would only be played on black radio stations, and it was. But I also assumed that, if I'm thinking right, this music is digestible to people who don't

go to church. But the spiritual significance that was in that particular melody and song came from the church, and I felt that that was going to do something special, and it did, and it was a chart record for Salm and Dave, and that was a road map for Isaac and I to cement the concept of creativity that we used all of the hits that we did.

and they were digestible for black and white audiences very easily. Burt Bacharac and Hal David were writers of another ill that had the most amazing melodies in their songs, and Bert would come up with some of the most intricate changes ever imaginable. I didn't understand what all of that meant, but I know what I felt and what Isaaca and I felt with the uniqueness of that, And so we knew that we could not outdo Motown and what they were doing, and we certainly could not outdo back Iraq

and David and what they were doing. So we had to find a path of creativity that led us to have our own uniqueness. Remember I said I was being influenced, we all were in this community by the contribution that wd Ie the radio station was making with the individuality of black artists. So we came up with the concept of the low end using the bass, drums and guitar with signature patterns around that particular area that created the uniqueness for that and came up with with melodies and

that was my specialties. Uh uh. That that gave an energy to those signatures on the low end, and we felt that that would separate us sonically with the sound. We didn't you know, we didn't get so technical in the sonical aspect of how to define what all these things were. But we we talked in terms of the sound of it, and we were we found that that was our path and what you don't know like I know, uh, we thought that that was a validation of that and from that point on we were able to go forward

with a path that locked us into that. The next song that happened with that was a song called hold On I'm Coming, and it was it was just that ability is to to really define in our own minds what was going to work in a unique way for us and then be able to say this is going to be it, which it was, it's going to be a hit or wasn't. And so we called hold On I'm Coming as a hit and it was We called soul Man as a hit, and that was when we

wrote it, not even before we recorded. When we wrote the song, we felt that my role was to to teach Sam and Dave, the melodies of the songs, the vocal patterns, and the nuances that created the uniqueness that gave them a spring inside of their personalities. They already had the soul for this, They already had their vibe, they had had records before, but they were willing to let us shape an order for them that was a little bit unique but different for them, but also merit

where we were creating from. And at the time we put that together, the four of us, we didn't know it would be of the magnitude that had ultimately ended up being, but we did know that we had found a combination that was a strength for us, that seemnu at the uniqueness of what we were doing versus what we were hearing at Motown and or back of recond David, and so we were able to constantly turn out hitchel on, Sam and Dave with that.

up with the concept get a creative direction. We live by the philosophy that there are no new emotions. You have to find fresh ways to talk about common emotions, and so we wanted to be sure that the emotion that we talked about the love on this group didn't bump into the emotion that we talked about love with a Sam and Dave or Karla Thomas or Johnny Taylor.

We have to find fresh ways to do it, and we wanted to be able to do it inside of what we were able to develop as a concept for the new uniqueness of the artists that we were working with today and me talking about this with you, it sounds like we were thinking in a very very scientific,

highly analytical kind of way. That's not the case. We were feeling these things, living out of the emotion of what we were feeling, and then acting up on them, and they were validating the meaning and the strength of it based on the results of them. And as the results kept coming, we kept developing even a better understanding of what we were doing. And more importantly, we were doing what we were doing, so we were able to work

different artists different times. When it's time to work write a song for particular artists, we had a concept for that artist. We know what that concept was, We know what the last record we had done on him. We know we didn't want to bump into them with a

similar idea with the follow up record. We knew what they had done before, We knew that what was the hit on Sam or n or Dave or Johnny Taylor or whoever, And we knew that we didn't want to bump into any of those and we were fortunate enough not to because we've created a vacuum around each artist that we worked with that see minute, that aura for them, and it drew the listener's mind to them and where they were, more so than them being aware that really

every song generally is talking about the same things. You hurt me, I hurt you, we fell in love yesterday, fell out after you, whatever. But it was able to be thought in terms of the active or other in terms of those ways. And even though those things end up being quite successful, we were not that brilliant about that. We just were feeling it the right kind of way. And I'm sure you've heard the thing about you get on a run and then things work.

that we did. We always wanted to be better than the last one that was dead we did, and so we were the best critic of one could have because we were the worst critic for criticizing what we were doing.

from something that you guys had done. Now, as strange as that was first place, I never would have thought that someone would have gotten me to talk about how hold On I'm Coming came about because I wasn't keen on wanting to tell somebody that I was in the restroom. So I'm thinking because I mean, at the time, we were a little popular, Isaac and I, but we were not household names. So I'm just thinking, well, what is it going to hurt? I'll just let them know what

happened with this. Decades later, the whole world knows about hold On I'm coming and how it was created. So so no, we Isaac and I would quite often go to clubs just to air out, just to relax, just to just to take a break, and we would jay. In my book there's a picture of Isaac and I on stage. This is before he was recording at his

artist performing, he and I performing together. We would do that often, leave the studio and go to a club, jam, leave there, go back to the studio, put our coats and jackets off, put something on, and go and write. This is one thirty two o'clock in the morning, one of those nights when we were trying to come up with the follow up to you Don't Know Like I Know. On Sam and Day, we went to a club called Club La Run and Isaac and I jam that night and we left there twelve thirty going on one o'clock

and we came back to the studio. Well, in the Stack Studios, it was an old movie theater that Jim Stewart had converted into a recording studio. You know with the slope floor that you walk down, sit in your seat and look up to the screen. Well, in those theaters, there was no area outside in the lobby that you would go to the restroom. No in those theaters, and in those times, you'd walk through the door to go into the theater room itself, and right to the right

or left would be a restroom. And because it was at that as soon as you were walking in the door, when you would go into the restroom, people wouldn't see the light from the restroom because they've gone down the floor and they're looking up. So it was placed in such a way that it was not an intrusive thing for a restroom to be inside of that of a theater room. But it also was used as as one of our echo chambers as well. On this particular evening, we were trying to come up with a follow up

for a record on Salm and day. We went to the club, had a great time, came back to the studio. I said, hey, man, I'm gonna run to the restroom. He said, okay, go ahead, he said, He went on down to the piano and I couldn't have been in there very long at all. So but to your question, I'm thinking about creating a song even in the restroom. Isaac is thinking about us creating a song even before we even started. So I'm in the restroom. He screams out to me, because he you could hear her. Hey, man,

hurry up. I hadn't been in there very long. I said, man, hold on, I'm coming. And it hit me like a light went off. I walked out of the restroom. I said, Sack, Isaac, we got one. He said, what I said, hold on, I'm coming, He said, hold on, I'm coming. What you're talking about? I said, let's come up with a rescue song, you know, like the Superman kind of thing. I said, let's come up with that, and and and and and have a point counterpoint where Sam and Dave and talking

about rescueing the check. But we also wrote with double meaning well, we also talked. I said, in this the media would be support and support for each other as a people in the times we were living. Because this is nineteen sixty six. He said, well, you know what you said, Superman and rescue. He said, man, I put down a horn pattern a couple of weeks ago with Wayne and Andrew. Wayne Jackson and Andrew Love were the Memphis Horns. They would do the sessions and stacks and

we were all working together. He said, I just put this horn lick down we called a horn lick would be maybe eight bars or sixteen bars of a particular run or pattern, and you never know what you're going to do with it. But it was there, he said. I said, well, let me hear it. We went up in the with that time the control room from the studio room where we were writing. Isaac put a seven and a half tape on played which sounded like a superman flying through the air rescuing this. That's well in

the stress. I said to him. He that's it, man, that'll be the signature for this song. We ought to start the song all with that, He said yeah, because we generally when it started the song featuring a horn pattern. Said yeah, So with that in mind, he now sits down at the piano. We've talked about it. He sat down at the piano. He hit a chord. I started singing right then, Bob, don't you ever feel sad, Lean on me when times are bad, When the day comes and you're down in a river of trouble in about

to drown, Hold on, I'm coming. I sung it. It came right through me. In twenty minutes, we had written a song, and at the time it was things came to us that kind of way. We knew where we were going with Sam and Day, the point counterpoint kind of thing that was we'd already established that's what we were going to do with them. The church vibe is what we were also going to do, because you don't know, like I know, showed us that and that just came

together that way. But it came together not with any kind of forethought except we were ready to work. We knew we were going to capture eye emotions and control the emotions targeted for the credibility of the artists that we were working with, and we stay true to that. He knew where that was. I knew where that was, and it things just flowed organically that way.

find if it doesn't, you keep going. He has had that the hit had been there a couple of weeks. He never said anything to me about it. By the same token with hold on, I'm coming. I already knew when we first sit down to write the song. I already knew what the beach should be, what the drum beat should be. I'm not a drummer, but head arrange what we all do at Stax and what we are

all uh proficient at doing. I knew that there was a record that came out of New Orleans by an artist by the name of Lee Dorsey, and he had a hit record called Get Out of My Life Woman, and the drum beat on that record, I felt was an amazing drum beat. Al Jackson Jr. The drummer at Stacks, played on all those hit records, was a genius at being given a seed of an idea of what you're thinking, and he manifests that into the aura of what you're

asking him for. He knew the get Out of My Life Woman beat, He tweaked the beat, put that pattern down on the Hold on Him Coming record, and it's one of the most revered records ever on a record. When you hear the record of hold on Him Coming on the radio with that horn pattern and that beat, if you listen close to the beat, you don't hear beats like that, and the uniqueness of the beat of that and the individuality of the horn pattern with the melody and that feel. We knew that was going to

be a number one record, and it was. But that's that was one of those things that, like I said that, we don't go down and say, well, we're going to write a hit today or the other. No, we target what we're going to do, concept, what we're going to do.

Stay true to that because she got a four piece rhythm basically, so you've got to make the same players that you're using regularly sound unique to what you're working on, and the only way you can do that is have a unique forethought to begin that, Isaac and I started working in a more significant way for the team the artists who made that obvious thing that could be a

strength for Stax Records was Otis ready. When Otis would come to Memphis, Otis would walk around the room harm all of the pars that he had in his head, have the guys play the pars, and everything they played sounded nothing like anything else they had played. The uniqueness of it was right there in your face, and that was the magic what told us that the potential for them to do. Every artist we worked with was inside

of them because Otis had broke them into that. When I said them, I'm talking about Booker, t Al Jackson Jr. Doug Don, and Steve Cropper. And instance, when when we were working on our records, it was Isaac on the keyboards. Occasionally we would use Booker, but that was the rhythm section. When when the records were being made on Albert King or Little Milton or Johnny Taylor, that same rhythm was used.

And when we would use them on those artists on records that we songs that we were producing, we had a targeted creative way conceptually that we would use them to create the individuality for those songs. But that was where the magic came about, and that was the way the magic came about inside of the Stacks facility. We never started using other core musicians in rhythm records at Stacks into years later. It initially it was just those guys. It was what we call the Big Six. It was just us.

long time before we got a studio. B It was just one main studio, and we eventually had a great number of artists to work with.

get them to understand the direction of a song. Well, how do you do that? Well, when when we recorded Sam and Dave, I were teaching the song now, the Stack studio was a slope old movie theater floor. We would be way at the top of the room, almost like you walk in the door at the movie. Stated there will be a baffle between us in the rhythm section on the floor. There would be a mic on the guitar amp, a mic on a bass amp, mike's

on the piano. You know, I mean horns are standing behind the baffle, all standing in the room after we've talked them the song, them being everybody now, in order to secure that the imagery and attitude is not compromised with every act, including Collin Timbers, I would be on the opposite side of the microphone directing them like a choir director, and they would be on the mic, looking

at the paper and following those cues. When people realize that that's how those records were recorded, they were surprised because we didn't go around telling people. Well, you know, when Sam and they recorded sol Man, they had to look at me as I direct them to do the squall or whatever on soul Man or whatever. But that's how it was done. So no one was going out talking about what our processes were. We were just marveling in the fact that these people all over everywhere thought

we were geniuses. We knew we were not genius. We just knew how to do what we knew how to do.

knew what the drum pattern was. So each song they were inside a capsule of understanding of the pattern, and the pattern goes to whatever that pattern is for four bars or two bars, and then he goes to the five, and he goes to the to go back to the tongue to the one. You know, I mean, they were numbers, but you're you're, you're, you're, you're knowing what the patterns are. So no, there was no writing down the music in

this kind of thing. Now, when we got into the orchestration years later, when Isaac got into that kind of thing, Isaac did not write music. He didn't. That wasn't that he didn't know how to write music. But Isaac knew how to create the parts by talking to an arranging

guys that could copy out his melodies. And if you want to chord spread or one, three, five, or he wanted a suspensions or whatever, he could say, give me a spread on it, and that guy would would show him what that chords spread with sonically would sound like. And he said, yeah, that or no, and they would write that out for the strange players of the horn players or the flute players that come in on the

session date. So but no, we never functioned by uh, let's write out the music charts for the songs we were going to record. That never happened.

York and Stacks. And during that time, Wexler was smart enough to utilize our environment as much as he could, So he would get Wilson Pickett to come down to record, he would get Don Cove to come down to record, and it was that kind of a thing. So sessions being scheduled and artists being asked to come in was quite easy because it wasn't that big Hughes roster that we eventually got, and you were able to say I'm

ready in two or three days. The artist would coming because they hadn't exploded yet after you don't know, like I know, that was when Sam and they just started doing quite a few gigs. They had just started that, so because they wanted their career to continue to explode, all we had to say was we need you in next week. Whatever they had. They would reschedule that if they had to, and be in that studio next week and I'd be teaching them the song. Three days later we'd have the song recorded.

where why is. We would create the structure based on what we were hearing coming out of them and the marriage of the transitions that we feel worked effective for them, and we would do that and we would get them because it's all fresh to them. They're just learning the song. So to us, we know we made some drastic changes,

but they don't. So what they're taught is what they know, and so to them, it's much much easier for them to feel and contain it than it would be for us, because Osica and I would have lived with it for three or four days sometime a week, and so we would be able to understand what we were doing and why we were doing, and they would be able to place close attention to what every thing they were hearing.

So we would teach them the song, and then when we schedule for the session, we would bring the horns and the rhythm in and we would have the horns sitting outside until we were ready for them to come in. But they would be there and we work out the rhythm with the four rhythm cats, and we'd work out the parts right there. And as I mentioned, they were parts, they were lines, musical lines, and they would get those and they would they were so used to being together

and working together. It was not as you know in Motown, I'm sure had the same kind of system where folks were able to feel each other, trust each other and go with it and know it would be right. And we had the same thing. But that was the advantage of having the same people that you're working with, who trusted each other, who felt each other, and he knew how to create the nuances necessary to communicate whatever the producer wanted from the song.

they knew they were part of something magical. They didn't know to what they sent The magic was magic until it was done. And then we talked about the nuances, the auras inside of the lines, and the kind of energy that we want to one of the lines. We go through all of that, so now they're ready to do it with the rhythm of the rhythm and go we run the whole song down. We don't have Sam and Dave screaming trying to sing the song at that particular time.

We got them listening and learning what the music is doing. Now they still know where the melody is because I'm talking to them about where the sections are. Now, this is before they go back to the We go back to the back for them to sing. Now the horns and the rhythm lock, and when the rhythm lock, we're ready. Now we go to the microphone and the guys the rhythm and the horns hadn't heard Sam and Day blast yet.

Now they hear Sam and Dave blast, and so when they start singing on the microphone, the energy escalates immediately in that room. That's in every song because it's fists like a glove. The concept that Isaac and I have for what we were doing and the way we went about accomplishing that always made the guys trust that it was going to be what we wanted it to be because we knew what we were doing, but it really was we knew who we could trust and we could trust them.

So the eight track was a fascinating time because a gentleman by the name of Tom Dowd, who was in New York with Atlantic Records, a genius, was one of the greatest minds in studio environment that could ever be, I believe, and he came down and straightened up so many things that were going wrong inside of our facility, and we didn't even know what it was. Jim Stewart didn't even know at that particular time that he should change the transitions in the little console. Tom Dowd changed

the transitions in the console. And if you listen to the record you don't know like I know, you will hear the pristine sound of that record comparison to the records that followed on Sam and Dave and others, because those transitions were just putting that con off that record. So you can hear you don't know like I know, and it's just like crystal clear. And you could tell if somebody tell you to listen closer and you compare the record, you can say, what was that? No, it's

the same room. But that those little kind of things that we didn't know what the heck we were listening to that Tom Dodd came and said, well, you guys need to change this and change this and whatever. And it was magical for us, but he was common knowledge for this guy who was a wizard at that kind of thing.

you can't afford to do it again. So everybody's locking in because you got to remember the patterns every time the pattern comes. So each time that count off happens, and when the one hits, everybody is locked. The singers locked, the musicians locked, Isaac and I locked in the production part of it, and we bring it off. And so we never had thirty cuts of forty cuts of anything. I don't know what. I wouldn't even rite count up to that. We never did anything like that because the

emotional connectivity was on every track every time. That's what made the magic and the beauty of Albert King so unique. Every time Albert King played on a record, his guitar parts, the records that were out and hits some standards on the Albert King, every one of the out takes, it was the same thing. But that was with everybody. Everybody would would would give it all, every take, every cut, so and it was all done at once.

same thing with making records. Those of us who are in the arts, we know what the art is and so we are looking for that and we're not open to something when you hear, When we hear funny notes or read a squeak on on the sack or something in the middle of a pattern that sounded good, we gotta do it again. We got to do it again.

do it till we didn't feel anything. We just were enjoying the journey. Now we had to understand what we were doing and why we were doing it. That's why the theory, as I mentioned earlier, about coming up with concepts with those that we work on, was so extremely important. If we were just writing and creating off the cuff, then yeah, you talk about pressure, but we didn't have any of that because we were not creating off the cuff.

If we're going to do a Sam and Dave record, we know why we were doing Sam and David, and we know what we had to do and we know where we were going with it. If we were going to do a Colin Thomas record, we knew why we were doing. When we recorded B A B Y on Caller we knew what we were looking for with the record. Now, generally we have every pattern that we're looking for on a record, on every song that we would do. On B A B Y, we didn't have the bass pattern

that we were satisfied with. Now we're working on it in the studio with the musicians, and we didn't have the bass pattern. But we knew we didn't because we said, let's try it again, let's try to gain because we were trying to get the rhythm to lock on it. Booker T. Jones and I will forever give a book a credit for this. It is in my book as well. Booker T said what about this pattern? And he played the pattern that you hear on BA B Y College tump on a bass pattern and we said, man, we

like that pattern. So we used that bass pattern on B A B Y. And that was given to us by Booker T. And I say that because that was the energy that was inside of the stacked room. Generally it was Isaac and I giving away parts and lines and things like that for other people's record. That was one time that one was given to us by the great Booker T. Jones on a on a major hit record.

to me. But what and it told me was that we had written a good song, and a good song on a good artist with a good combination of players can make a good record. And so I just felt wow, surprised, but please, And I hadn't heard anything else. I remember Achel by name, but I don't know any of the records by her.

And there was no there was no magic happening with that. And so at the end of that, everybody was ready to go. And finally Al Jackson was the one who got Steve just to say something to Jim to listen to Otis, and he agreed to listen, and the rest is history.

Steve was the one playing piano. And Steve is not a piano player at all, So what he was doing was playing tribleish on the piano because he was He's not a piano player. But Otis made his triblet playing sound magical because of his tone and the imagery that he was doing inside of his vocals. Otis was especially from day one, but no one knew that.

How do you do that? He could do things with his voice and with his tone that would make you feel the emotion of what he was trying to convey through a lyric that was abstract to the lyric line that he was doing. That speaks volumes about artistry. And he was just magical with that. And then if you would ask him what are you here? With that, he would have the part in his head that he could tell you what to play. And it wasn't that he

had thought long and hard about that part. It just when he was called for it, it just flowed out of him. And so that that just said trust, magic, confidence, and all of that wrapped in one and otis was that he was magical like that.

those guys. And I walk in in the room where they're playing this rhythm riff. I being me and Isaac, we go in there and we hear this rhythm rift. Well, jim is standing on the floor this then, and they don't know what to do with this, and so I said, uh, you, matter of fact, try an idea. I was. I'm paraphrasing now because I asked for the chance to try idea on the track. Now you must understand that, because no one knew what to do with this rhythm track, they

were open to that. Isaac said to he said, soul Finger. Now, James Alexander needs to tell his story because he knows it's true. Isaac came up with the title soul Fing. When when I heard that, I went outside, went to the grocery store next door. I bought two cases of Coca Cola, asked kids that were on the street if they would come inside of the studio because they had never been in the studio, I said, I want to come in the studio. I got them to come in

the studio. They're all in the studio, were all in on the floor there. Just then I said, you want to do something for me? Would you like to be on the record. These are young kids, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve years They started screaming here. I said, listen, I'm going to wreck you like a choir, and every time I wave my fingers like this, I want you to scream as loud as you can. You want to scream like I said, Yes, I said, but why when the music is playing. I want you guys to talk to

each other and have fun. Have fun, yes, I said, but listen, each time I bring my arms down, I want you to say soul finger. So soul finger every time I do that. So they thought that would be fun. Jim set up microphones around the room. They still don't know what this is, And be quite honest with you, I don't know how I'm going to direct them to do anything. So it's going to happen organically, and I'm

not thinking analytical about organically. I'm just thinking I want to try something, and Bob, it was just I want to try something. ISAA came on with the titler, I want to try something. The only person that was out of any money was me for the two cases of coke. And because Jim is not paying me yet now, so I get the kids screaming, and then whole finger and so and then and when they heard that, they being Jim heard that there were no records even anywhere remotely

close to anything like that. And because it was nothing remotely closed to anything like that, and because it was soul finger, and Jim, who I love, doesn't know what the soul finger is. Isaac does, but but so and the public doesn't. So so we put that on the record. They released the record. Now, uh the horns which Ben called it, and I forget who the seclay. When they heard this kid screaming, they put the horns down on it.

On soul Fing, they put the horn down and Ben Carley, who was the actually trumpet player with the Barcade, had a signature sound with his horns, and so they were just having fun. They had no idea to know that that horn rift the way Ben was playing it along with the tennis side. That riff was going even more signature of that record. Of course, no trumpet player would play a lit like that on a record, and so because it was so filled with uniqueness, the record exploded.

And here it is, decades and decades later later, still lives like that.

constructive way for them. So you make a conscious decision as to what you're going to do if you're going to do this thing called music, and what that means is that you have to make a conscious decision of how much you're willing to give up to give yourself a legitimate chance to be successful at doing it. And if, by chance, you don't succeed at doing it, there is a possibility that you will have lost your family. If by chance you become successful, there is a possibility they

may feel a similus of some value from you. And or if by chance there was so much dissension and anger because it just didn't work in a synergistic way. You got kids that don't think well of the family and the family's splend and whatever. And that's the sin, for lack of a better word, that this thing called music can do to you when you're passionate about working and making sure that you give you a simple, legitimate

chance to be successful in it. And in the book, I say that the greatest sacrifice that could be made it is sacrifice that a family makes to endure that from someone who hass to find out if they have it or not.

I finished, I'm in the eleventh I finished eleventh grade. I start the twelfth grade because I'm determined to finish high school. I wanted to go to college. I had no money, but I wanted to make something happened with my life, and so I go to school. This is during the time that I didn't think I was the father because I didn't think I could get a girl pregnant by doing what I did. That shows you how brilliant I was about the birds and the bees, and so that's

really what happened. So the music, I was still passionate about it. I was singing on talent shows and all of that, but nothing has started happening for me at that particular time. By the time I finished high school, I graduated from twelfth grade June sixth. My son was born June the twenty sixth, and I wasn't sure he was mine. And my mother told me that if you had sex, whether you have to marry it, and This is before there was anything like DNA or anything like that.

But I come from a period of time when you do what you did, you don't have a choice. You have to marry the girl, and so that's what I did. And so it was that kind of situation. And I was just coming out of high school, and that's when I started working at a grocery store to take care of the kid. Two grocery stores, trying to hang around Bill Street to learn more about music, and trying to make some money to pay whatever little bills I could pay. This before I even got a place to stay. So

that's where that was. It was no success. By the time my career started going in a successful way, I was not with the mother of my children.

have somebody in with some equipment. And I see this wide open space which was was the live room for studio A. I didn't know that at a time, and he's almost finished with a studio room and I inquire about what it was and he said that, uh, they moved from another part in the city. But they they're gonna they're doing country records there. That's what they're gonna be doing. Well. This community that he just was moving and was doing the studio and was just converting over

to a black community. The white cenistery was moving out of the community and more and more blacks were moving into it. Additionally, I'm working at the grocery store across the street. Additionally, there was a records shop that Jim Stewart's sister opened right next to the interests inside of the studio. So I just went into the record store and started asking her about who she was, and she told me who she was, and they were part of that, and I started developing a rapport with her because I

was able to go over there. I couldn't buy the records, but I could hear records playing on my breaks, but I also could talk to her about is it any possibilities that her brother would give me an audition? And it was her that convinced him to give me an audition. That didn't happen right away, but when he got the urge to pay a little bit more attention to me, I was already hanging around every opportunity I could get,

I'd walk over there and hang around her. So I was finding out where their sensibilities were as it relates to doing music and changing because they were not having any success with the two artists they had during country.

sang bass in the group. He wasn't even a lead singer, and so we would rival on Wednesday nights trying to win three dollars, which was the prize for first place. That's how we met. So here it comes. I graduated from high school, I'm hanging around the studio across the street. I want to do music. I got a family started. I'm trying to find a way to do that while I'm trying to work crazy hours, two and three jobs to take care of that. And Isaac and I start talking.

He's got a family, he has no money either. So I come up. I'm one of those kids that's a little bit aggressive in respect that I believe that when I make my mind up that I want to do something, I would go for it. So I said, well, let's start a record company. Now, mind you, I don't know anything about a record company, but I can't get into the stack studios, and I don't know how to do

a record company. But I know how to make a record because I've made a record called Farewell right as I graduated from high school with a shyster that it recorded me and skipped left town. I never saw anything after that. I heard it on the radio, but I never saw anything. So I was already being proactive with working toward making something happen. So Isaac agreed with me,

let's let's do something. Well. I've been selling insurance in addition to working at a grocery store, and in one of the instances of selling insurance, I met and made a relationship with a gentleman by the name of ge Patterson. So I said, we can make this record my classmate Homer Banks, who sings. He had just graduated and I love his tone. Mind you, I've been hearing these tones of individuality from these artists from WDIA, so I know that if you got something that sounds just like you,

there's a chance, because something can happen. So I'm not thinking about making me a start at that time. I'm thinking about here's a guy who's got a really unique sound. So I said, okay, how are we going to do it? I said, well, let me see. So I go and I talk to a gin jockey and convince him to

go into partnership with Isaac. I now, mind you, this is illegal, and I don't know it's illegal, and I'm telling him I would give you twenty five percent of the record company that we have and he says okay. So now I go to Chips Moment, who had been at Stacks, but who had left, you know, right right before the name changed, right as his name was changed. Chips left because he didn't want to do the music they were doing and they were going to do, and he left and started his own thing. So Chips had

this building over in North Memphis. Because Chips knew me. I went and talked to Chips. I said, Ships, which you let me have some studio time. I'll give you part ownership of this record. He says, what record? I said, we're cutting recording this artist right here. He heard the guy's tone, he liked his tone. We hadn't even recorded the songs yet, he says, for what are we talking about? I said, twenty five percent? Okay, mind you. I don't

know how to negotiate. So now Isaac has twenty five percent. I have twenty five percent, Chips has twenty five percent, and a dishocking by the name of hal Alkins has twenty five percent, and give we take three percent from each of us and give the artists twelve percent. Rawdy So so I borrow money from a gentleman that I met for selling him insurance. I borrow five hundred dollars and we record a little Lady of Stone on one record in Sweetie Pie on the B side, and another

record called Ain't That a Lot of Love? Now, while I'm trying to figure out how to get into stacks, I not only do that record, which did make any money, I do another record at High Studios under the pseudonym name of Kenny Kine. I record that, and I do another record of Savoi Records in New Jersey by a gentleman by the name of fred Mindlsson, none of which I give anything from. But I'm I'm hustling trying to

make something happen. By now I'm getting more experience. So while all that's going on, Jim Stewart is now trying to record Rufus and Colin Thomas. Because I'm still hanging around there. He doesn't know how to put a band together for Rufus and call it for that record. But I knew who Booker T. Jones was because I skipped over this. But Estelle had convinced Jim to do an audition for me, and I did the audition. I bought William Bell singing background on my audition, and you love

playing ten of sacks on my audition. Booker T. Jones playing baritone horn on my audition, and I sang the song, got a rhythm session, got a piano player by the name of Bob Tality to play for me, and I stumped because I froze in his studio. But I bought what eventually became some of the cornerstones of Stax Records on that audition. Beyond that, we moved forward to when they were trying to put a band together for the color for the Rufus and Caller record of Course I

Love You. I went and got Booker T. Jones to play baritone horn on that record. The signature sound on costs I Love You by Rufus and Khala, that's Booker T. Jones. If you listen to the record, that's a high school senior by the name of Booker T. Jones that I went and got the play on that record. I got some other musicians to play on the cost I Love Your record as well. That's before I even get into Stacks. But that is the kind of and I talk about

this Inine the book. That is the kind of out there kind of spirit that I had that got in the mix of a lot of things, including Stacks.

is the writer position in the publisher position. So these people who know that are taking advantage of us as green as we were, and take the publishing part of that. And so we ended up agreeing to sign away the songwrite a contract. Was in that contract you signing away your publisher rights. Isaac Hayes, David Porter, William Bell, Biggert, all of us did that. We did that because the information was never disclosed to us about what our actual

rights were in that regard. Well, that was the nature of the business during that particular time. That was how it was done. We all eventually learned more about the business, including how not to allow that to happen in an ongoing way. But by then the Book of the Magical Songs were already controlled by someone else. The only thing about that was that at some point that material publishing side of it and writers would revert back to the writer.

But by now you find that information out. So there are people that's trying to get you to even sign that away. But if you know better, you do better. So I, like so many other folks, knew better, and I did better, and I got all of mine back.

ownership to Atlantic Records, and we had no masters. When Atlantic came out of the deal, Jim got out of the relationship and so we started from scratch. Al Baill, who I give credit to being the god sin for all of us, ended up making some magical things happen

fus Stacked, Jim began was beginning to fade back. Al took over an ownership position at Stacks, the six of US six being Steve Cropper, Dug Dunn, Isaac Hayes, Booker, T. Jones, L. Jackson Jr. And myself Were given an ownership position by Al Bell And what Al wanted to do was build up the catalog of the company again because we had no masters, and so he came up with this novel idea of recording twenty seven or eight albums in flooding

the marketplace with albums. Now, this was during the time where it was not known the album sales would be astronomical as they ultimately became, But that was an idea that Al had. So Al was trying to get any and everybody to record albums, and he gave Isaac the opportunity to do that. Now, mind you, we were still Isaac and I were still producing. He gave him the opportunity to do that. Isaac took advantage of that. The first album I recorded was an album called Presenting Isaac Hages,

which sold about two thousand albums. It was not successful at all, but that's what he did then because al was still trying to get album product. I just said, well, do you want me to do another album? El said yes, because he's trying to get more product. He said, well, if I did one, I'd have to do it the way I want to do it. Al agreed to let him do it the way he wanted to do it. Now, mind you, al Bell did not know what he was saying, because Isaac recorded the next album called Hot Buded Soul

with four songs on it. Nineteen minutes long, was a song never in the history of the music business had there ever been anything like that. Additionally, he didn't write the song, but he took a thing that we did at the clubs when we would going jam and come back from the clubs to write songs. He took a song that we did at the club by the time I Get to Phoenix by Glenn Campbell, and he came up with a concept for that song that ended up being the staple for the album Hot Butter Soul. It

sold the album nineteen minutes and it exploded his career. Now, Isaac then crystallized the concept of the chain look and the look that he had. He knew about staging, and he knew about concept, and he merged all of that into what he was doing, and the rest is history. Well, by then, now I'm producing the acts because Isaac had to go on the road and he was making stupid money, crazy money at that time. And I'm producing artists. But in the meantime, I get the feeling, well, well, I'm

gonna record an album myself. So I recorded an album. The album sold about one hundred and fifty two hundred thousand albums. Now, in the scheme of things in proportion of Isaac, that small potatoes been in proportion of money, that's great money for Stax Records. That's a lot of money. So so, but I don't get to note the riodley as an artist. Isaac does, in which I'm happy for Now. I record a second album with hang On Sloopy on it, which I covered a song that sells another two hundred

thousand plus album. But I don't get the note rioting. But people know about I'm now. I go on a tour with Isaac and we played an example Philadelphia Spectrum, which is in my book. The picture of that of That's post is in my book that Miles Davis is to open and act for us, and we have a sellout on Thursday night in Philadelphia with Isaac Hayes, especially against our David Porter Miles Davis. I still didn't want to go on the road as a regular so now

I'm still producing artists in the studio. Isaac is traveling all over the world doing amazing the will. I decided to cut one more album, a concept album called Victim of the Joke, an opera with acting scenes, sound effect the whole nine yards. It becomes a cult album. One of the most sample pieces of product Imaginal is that album, and so many records have sample from the album Victim

of the Joke. But it's amazing years later, just me personally, about five hundred samples of stuff that's directed to me,

which is crazy. Isaac is a global superstar all over the world, and I decided to put all of this inside of the story, inside of a book and let people know with clarity more about me who I was comfortable and not disclosing all of what I was about who I was or anything such as that and certainly not comfortable in talking about my life to the extent that I have, but I wanted to make sure that I used this opportunity to let people know because they are hearing music that was done by me and that's

on records. Magan Statu, you had a record last year that's a sample of David portersong. I mean, it's just it's just amazing what it's been. And the fact that I wanted to share my life experience with the people

through this book was something. But that speaks to what was happening at Stax and why even with a bank attempting to close it down, why years later, even when they thought they'd closed it down, the music catalog still explodes after Stacks closed, Bob, I think I know you know, but I don't know how much of your audience would know after Stacks was closed, where they thought that they had destroyed Stacks. There were major hit stars from Stax. Johnny Taylor had a record on CBS figure this called

Disco Lady. The first multi platinum single you can google this in history was Disco Lady. The Staple Singers had Let's Do It Again, number one record Pop charted all of that, Johnny Taylor, all of that. Oh, I mean so many of the artists, the Barcays, many many gold and gold albums that they've did for Mercular, the artists that were a part of the spirit of what Stacks was kept living on and survived and still played a pertinent part inside of the fabric of music appreciation all

over the world. And it was just a magical kind of thing to just get the opportunity to talk about as I'm doing with you today.

did and how we went about that. And I have in video one hundred and thirty plus videos of some of everyone from Stevie Wonder to I have a booklet from Maurice White who Maurice is my best friend, we grow up together, to Jimmy jam the producer, to Steve Jordans with the stones. Now to Ray Parker Junior who just all of these great great talents, so many Eric Benney and yes letters see it's Valie Simpson, so many

amazing talents. I get them to tell their stories of the creative process and their exceptional skill levels, of their focus, and I'm able to give this free to Africans who enter the program. They consortium MMT program and they get that free. And I feel so honored as you say, they have the marbles to still do things like that. It's a special special.