Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My guest today is David Ryper. David, there's a Mickey Thomas Starship and you're the Jefferson Starship. Explain to me what's going on here.
Oh okay, that sounds a bit confusing. Okay, So there was a Jefferson Starship and that was Paul Cantner. Actually, Paul Kntnor, Grace Slick and I were starting it kind of because we we were what was left of Jefferson, part of what was left of Jefferson Airplane when they decided not to be Jefferson Airplane anymore. And we had recorded a couple of albums and we thought we need to go out on the road, and we didn't know what to call it. And so I'm going way back to the beginning here.
So well, actually I'd like to go back to the beginning. Leader, Okay, let's just talk.
I gotcha right now.
My understandings, there's two acts, and why are the two acts and what is the difference?
Okay. Paul Kantner restarted Jefferson's Starship in the nineties after it was did not exist for the for the for the five last five years of the eighties, it became Starship. But then at the end of that Starship ceased to exist. So Paul thought, well, a fine time, just restart and do what I want to do, what I've always loved to do, So we restarted Jefferson Starship. So Mickey Thomas was the lead singer in Starship. He wanted something to do. So I do not know anything for a fact here.
I assume that he so going against all the legal things he managed to I guess he could call it Starship featuring Mickey Thomas or Mickey Thomas's Starship, and they would let him do that. But meanwhile, there's this other Jefferson Starship that was existing with Paul Kantner right along the way, and this band is what is left. We were all in the final version of Jefferson Starship when Paul passed away in twenty sixteen.
Okay, if I go to see Jefferson Starship and you do many gigs on the road, what material am I going to hear?
Stuff from the whole Jefferson Starship, airplane even Starship era. We'll do it all, Okay, I don't know whether you're actually going to hear every single song we ever did. That would be impossible, but yeah, we do it from all the eras.
And do you do the same set every night when you have like a run of dates or do you vary it up?
We vary it up. I mean that all depends on what we're doing, meaning what Okay, Well, say we were going out opening up for bt O and UH and Uh Marshall Tucker and so we only had a half hours being the opening band for this last little bit, and so we just had it. We did do the same set there because we picked the songs, the songs that they thought that the audience would have to hear. So we fit squeeze seven songs into a half an hour. So it's pretty good.
Okay, I'm interesting because it's a big catalog and I'm familiar with it. What are the sevens I could guess, But what are the seven songs people have to hear?
Well? I don't know this. This are the ones we came up with that we could fit, we could piece together that would would work. Okay, what did we do? We did find your way back? We did miracles. Then we did Nothing's going to stop us now? And we did uh why rabbit and we did. We built this city, and we did Jane, and then we did Somebody to Love. If we were lucky, it had ended before thirty minutes.
Okay, you're eighty six years old, Yeah, soon to turn eighty seven. What is keeping you on the road.
These people that are in the band right now, that we get along so well, and the whole thing. When Paul passed away, we said, well, now what are we going to do? We love each other so much, and Grace and Grace Slick decided that she thought she thought the band should go on, and she and she had the key to the highway, so she gave us the license.
Well, you've been doing this for sixty almost years at almost sixty. What is the difference going out at eighty as opposed to twenty six?
Well, I can move around a little better back when I was twenty six. I'm a little slower, I say, I don't know. I can still sing knock on wood.
Let me ask questions a little. A lot of people don't live to eighty six. There are people who are totally spried Cochin and able into their nineties. Their acts on the road today in their late seventies were on the road and can't sing. I guess what I'm saying is so many people are plagued by health proms. You're obviously talking to me, But you've lived so long. Is it because the luck of the genes? Or is it because you take such good care of yourself? What explains your spryness.
I go with the former, the luck of the genes, because I haven't particularly taken very good care of myself. I mean, I do, you know, I do go to the gym and work out now to to keep my you know, my you know, my self, you know, torso safe, you know, keep it in shape. But other than that, I mean I try to eat a sensible diet, and not that I don't have any problems I have. I have a I have an artificial heart valve, you know, but it seems to be working.
Since where you know, you're doing great. It's like my doctor says, all of his patients who lived to ninety have had at least one bout of cancer. Have you had cancer?
I just had a couple of lymph nodes that had ever removed, But knock on wood, I don't have any now.
So what pills do you take every day? And how many pills.
Oh, I take about I don't know, two, three, four, about five six pills twice a day something like that.
Okay, there are a lot of people who say, I don't want to take pills, and going back to my doctor again, is you take the pills. They're going to keep you alive. They're doing things. You have a viewpoint on the pills at all.
Well, my only only thing I can I can fathom is that they are keeping me alive because I ain't dead. You know.
Okay, how old did your parents live to?
Mom made it to ninety two and dad made it to eighty eight.
Okay, not the same in my family. But you do have good genes. Okay, when you live to eighty six, a lot of friends pass away before you do. How do you metabolize that? How do you cope with it?
You have to accept it? And I don't know. I've I tend to accept that. The universe, I'm not I'm not sure the law of conservation of energy, you know, if if it exists, it's going to exist in another form somehow, nothing disappears, you know, it's either mass or it's energy, and and so I don't know. I don't know. I have yet to find out, I suppose. Okay, So if I find out I've forgotten.
Other than your bandmates, do you have a best friend someone you can call or if some of those people passed away and you've had to switch to another person.
A lot of them passed away, sure, most of them.
Wow, Okay, let's go back to the beginning. So where are you from originally?
Well? I was born in Boston, And what did would your parents do for a living in Boston? My dad came from a fairly wealthy family and it was right in the in the during the depression, so they seem to have kept him in Harvard for the whole depression. And when I was born, I think I think he had he has four Harvard degrees, so it makes me think that he couldn't figure out what else to do and he ended up being an attorney. I think he was working for the New England Dairy Farmers or something.
He was their attorney.
Then how do you meet your mother? What was her story?
They were both from Cincinnati and they I don't know, they ran into each other and I and I believe dad's college roommate married my mom's sister.
So okay, So how long did you live in Boston?
Only until I was about this Second World War? My dad went in the Navy and my mom went back to live with their parents in Cincinnati.
Okay, do you have any memories of that era?
Yeah? I few still linger tell me, Oh, I remember, you know, saving saving cans and things like that for for for the war effort. Yeah. Uh. And terrible stories that came back being Jewish RADI stories came back, you know.
So the war ends, then what happens?
Uh? I was I end up? I end up? Uh? My dad was an in the Attu Island for most of the war, just the Boer War he called it. Nothing ever happened. And then the then before he got discharged, they stationed it in North Carolina, and I'd had one to the second grade in North Carolina. And then when he got discharged, we moved back to Cincinnati, which is where I stayed until I moved out here in nineteen fifty nine.
Okay, you're living in Cincinnati. You have brothers and sisters, two brothers and a sister. Yes, And where are you in the hierarchy.
I'm the oldest, the oldest.
All the hopes and dreams were in you.
They're all still here. I don't know whether his hopes and dreams. I thought he thought he was going to get a doctor or a lawyer or something.
What have your siblings been up to? What would their lives look like?
My brother was an advertising art director for all of his life, and I know he's kind, but they're all into They're all into music a little bit. I mean he plays viola and string quartets, as did eye when I was in high school.
But okay, you're going to school, what kind of kid and what kind of student? Were you?
Terrible? I didn't get along with my father. He expected me to hit the books. Because I think I've looked. I kind of learned that that he uh he didn't do well in school, but he got into Harvard anyway, and he and then he learned to buckle down and get things done, thus the four Harvard degrees. But uh so he wanted me to and I completely revolted it, and I must I do not remember doing this on purpose, but I did terribly in high school. He really wanted me to go to Harvard, but there was no way
that I was. I couldn't make myself do homework. But I was very interested. I was playing in the orchestra. I was playing, you know, in high school. I played violin and viola and the orchestra and string quartets. It was pretty good for a high school guy. But I wasn't prodigy or anything.
Where did the music come from? There was there music in the house.
Constantly he played. They played classical music, and he liked He liked Benny Goodman, he liked Lewis Armstrong and all the Broadway hits. They were always playing and we could sing them all, you know, all the kids.
Okay, you're of an age you could remember the birth of rock and roll. Can you tell me your first experience of hearing Rocket eighty eight or Rock around the Clock? And you know, did you like it? Did you dislike it?
I did like it, but it was so frowned upon in my house. I mean, I could not get a guitar. I really wanted a guitar, but I could never I never bought one until I had moved to San Francisco, and I was by about almost twenty two, I think, before I bought my first guitar.
Okay, you graduate from high school, then what do you do in Cincinnati?
I went to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio.
And did you graduate?
No? I I changed my major every semester.
How many years did you go to Miami?
I got three and a half. I think I got I had one hundred and twenty units, but they were all in different places, and it had taken me another three years to graduate to get a major. And I thought, well, I'm going to end up being an English major, and what am I going to do with that, you know? And so I just I spent the whole time kind of trying. First thing, my father said, you got to be a scientist or or you know, or something, because science is what's coming, you know. And so I try
and I failed. That is so I spent most of my time screwing around, acting in place in the drama department, but I took no classes in drama and singing and singing in the choir and the and the Menscale club. But I took no classes in music, even though I had been recruited there by the head of the viola department when I played viola in high school to go there to study music. But music was nothing a good Jewish boy was supposed to do unless you were David,
you know. Unless you were pick one, you hooty menu and I don't know.
Okay, so you're there in Miami. I assume on your father's dollar.
Right, absolutely wasting every penny of it.
Okay, how do you decide to drop out? And what does your father say?
Oh? We we ended up not talking mostly, you know. I rebelled and I married the Catholic girl, my Catholic girlfriend from college, and we got married and we just knuck out of town and moved to San Francisco.
Okay, let's back up. Tell me about meeting this woman and getting married.
I don't know things happened.
How'd you decide to get married?
Oh? I don't know. That part is pretty doesn't remain with me very much anymore.
Okay. How long were you married to that woman?
Until a year after we got to San Francisco.
Okay, so you're with this woman? Why san Francisco.
I know when I was about a teenager, all of us piled in a car and shrove all through the United States. And when we came into San Francisco one summer, right, all of us in the car. They come around on the US one oh one coming into San Francisco, and it was just about sunset. The fog was coming in the sky was pink. It was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. And we probably had the best dinner I've ever had. And I just thought in my head, I'm going to live here and somehow, And so that's
why I probably picked that. And also, I mean there was the beat Nicks were out here, and I kind of I was interested in that. And I was interested in folk music, although I had didn't have a guitar yet, but I was. I was always listening to it and singing it. And I was a big peat Seeger fan, and I love the Weavers.
And so, okay, you're talking to your new wife, what is your pitch and what is the dream of what's going to happen once you get to San Francisco.
Think most of us was getting out of Cincinnati because she wasn't having a good time there either. She wanted to get away from her mother and I wanted to get away from my father.
Although, okay, you get to San Francisco, what are you living on?
I tried to I had a little a little inheritance that I already had. It came from my grandparents, I think, so I went through that pretty quick. But I was supposed to have a job at a I don't know, some trucking company, but it turned out not to be there when I got there. So I think I worked for a pawn shop in Oakland until I got a job with the Southern Pacific Railroad in their main office in San Francisco, and because I liked trains, but after I got there, I learned that that they didn't really
like trains. They like money. And so I worked my way up and I was a freight rate analyst, but I was a but back up a little bit. The wife disappears, and I have no idea where she's gone.
A little bit slower. You go to work one day and you come home she's not there.
She's not there, and no sign of her. The cops haven't heard anything.
Is there stuff going?
No? Some of it? Okay, you know, it's not like you know. I have no idea what happened. And the only thing I could think of to do was I went out and bought a guitar and I started to learn how to play guitar, and eventually I found her. Some I think I was driving through Golden Gate Park and I saw her, and I ran over to he and say, hey, what's going on? And she came back and she was pregnant.
Pregnant with someone else's baby.
Someone else's baby.
Okay. Just to get the timeline straight, how long after she had disappeared did you run into it?
Oh? Matter of weeks?
Okay, So she had already found somebody else. You were oblivious if.
It wasn't with them anymore. She wanted to come back.
Oh, and you said.
I said, I'm a nice guy. I said, well, okay, but meanwhile, I'm gonna do what I'm going to do. So I was, I was playing the guitar, and I was okay.
Just to get to the end of her story first, you think I can. Did she move back, did she have the baby? How long much longer did you live together?
She did have the baby, and I don't know because then I turned into a folks singer. So I first, I'm working for the Southern Mississi Southern Pacific, and I'm playing and I'm playing on weekends and and and our week nights whenever at the folk at the folk clubs on hot night and andy knights, you know, And so I'm listening to people that are up there, and I say, well, if they could do that, I can certainly do that.
So I get up there and sing, and I saw, uh, there was a note on the on the bulletin board said wanted folk singers for Peace to travel through Mexico all the way down to Central and South America, with bringing nothing with us but living with the people and to spread peace and happiness and brotherhood. And I said that sounds very interesting, and so I got in touch with the guy. He ended up being a Vietnam vet
who was definitely anti war. And this other there was a girl named Sandy Rudin, little Jewish girl who knew lots lots of folk songs and wanted to do it. And I did it, and we were the three. And I actually talked to Southern Pacific into giving me a leave of absence. I was a freight raided analyst by then, and I got permission.
Okay, Africa, a little lightning round? Yeah you or did you not raise that child?
I didn't.
Okay, what year did all this happen that you went took the leave of absence and went on the folks singing tour?
Probably nineteen sixty two?
Okay, So this guy had been to Vietnam early when most people weren't even aware of it. Yeah, well right, okay, just to go back to something you said earlier. Okay, Now, most people today are unfamiliar with Beatniks. They don't even remember Dobie Gillis and the Energy Krebs. So can you give us a few words about Beatnicks?
Oh, I don't know North Beach, I don't know Allen Ginsberg, Jack Carrouac. They're playing bongos and the New Lank You know, everybody's a cat, you know. Can you dig it? Poetry recitals in coffeehouses?
To what degree? Was it limited to San Francisco? Was it a completely you know, it's totally different today with the Internet, etc. But yeah, what did people in Ohio know about Beatniks or what was going on in San Francisco? If anything?
I on the road by Jack Carrouac, I mean, and I don't know. I just knew they were there, and I knew there was a lot of jazz being played there, and you know, and I don't know. Okay, that wasn't really the reason I picked it. I picked it because it was just so beautiful.
Okay, And what exactly was your motivation to buy guitar and play music.
That was the big mystery. I don't know. I had always wanted one, and I never did it. And so I said, well, screw all this stuff that's supposed to be happening in my life. I'm going to do what I want to do, you know. So I went and bought the guitar and got a bunch of sing out music and started learning learning how to how to play and fingerpick and stuff. And it came pretty naturally to me having played, you know, a strange instrument before.
Okay, so now you're on this tour with the woman in the Vietnam veteran down to Mexico. Tell me about that.
Yeah, okay, we go down to a folk club and I don't know. We went and we figured out a way to take the train to Mexico ally, get and go across from Calexico to Mexico ally and take the third third class train to Mexico City. That's what our and so we missed. We missed the train. We just missed it when we got there. So we had to stay overnight. You couldn't stay in the station. They wouldn't stay in the station, and through the miracle of miracles, the guard for the station said, you can stay in
the back of my pickup trucks. I had a panel truck panel truck, and so he let us. He was really friendly and you're nice and and this is about all that we found in Mexico when we were there, people that were very friendly. So anyway, we eventually again on the train the next day, and we have very little money, and all we're eating is like what what the vendors are selling at every stop, you know, liketo, potato, tacos,
you know things. And we and by the time we got to mexic Go City, I think we had twelve
pesos between three of us. But we managed to get to the American Friends Service Committee and told them what we were doing for peace, and that they gave us some people that we could talk to at the University of Mexico and people at people places we could possibly stay and and and we went out and we started went there, met some people, met met an art student who was impressed with what we were doing, and people
took us seriously and it was kind of amazing. And Uh offered us that we could stay at his house and sleep on. We were sleeping on the floor, but you know, it was some place to stay. And we'd go out in the daytime and and and sit up in applaza somewhere and leave our guitar cases opens and sing and people actually three paytos, and and you know, I guess, I guess we were okay, I don't know. We found a kosher restaurant when sang in Mexico City and sang there because she she we knew how aneguila
and that's you know, anyway, that worked too. And and one day a somebody asked us to come sing. What'd you come and sing at our meeting? Because they liked how we sounded. So so okay, we'll come and sing
at your meeting and go to the meeting. And it's none of us really spoke Spanish except for restaurants, right, and so but we could understand uh uh because the speaker was was screaming young even period is smooth and things like that, and so so well we went along with it, you know, and we got up and we compared peach Cheeger to peach Cheeger's problem with the government, to the muralist Hiciros, who was in jail as a political prisoner at the time, and and we're saying, if
I had a hammer, you know, went across fairly well. And then we went back and back to the other thing is I smoked pot for the first time in Mexico City too. I remember somebody was, okay, keep telling the story, which is pretty important in my life. Actually, I'm sure it was. Anyway, So so anyway, we go back to the to the artist's house, wake up in the morning to banging on the doors, and it's the Federal Federal Allays and apparently that was the guy that
was yelling yanker imperialless was the Cuban ambassador. And they drag all of us down down the headquarters, questioned us all day, put us in a jail overnight, wake us up in the morning, put us in the car, and drive us directly up to an amor An Airlines flight. Put us on the plane, and somehow we were in first class eating mangoes for breakfast. And I don't but they send us to San Antonio. I guess it was the first plane out. I don't know.
Okay, so now you're in San Antonio.
Now we're in San Antonio and Sandy's we're all furious about well, what did we do? We sang a song. You know this is this is wrong. We got to talk. We have to do something about this. Well, Sandy's college roommate was Lyndon Johnson's person, personal secretary, personal attorney, I mean so, and he's up in Austin. So we hitchhike up to Austin and while she's looking for for her for her roommate's father, which never really turned turned out
too much. Michael, Michael Gramleck was this guy's name. And we go to the to the student union where the the Folk Alliance is is having, you know, their their weekly meeting, and with we sing some songs and trade thing. And there's this girl with the autoharp and long hair and she's singing this beautiful loud voice and she's doing Irish murder ballads. And we said, but you know, you're really great. He says. There is a scene that's happened
up in San Francisco. If you want to come out, man, feel free into the friend that was standing there with her, Uh, feel free to I mean you can stay in our sofa until you find something to do it. You really could go somewhere, and and then we then we went back to San Francisco, and they did and they showed up. Well.
The girl was Janis Joplin and the guy was Chet Hilms, who opened the Avalon Ballroom, and and Chet used to say, if Freiburg hadn't been deported to Mexico, maybe none of this would happen.
I don't know. Okay, So now you're back in San Francisco, you go back to work for the railroad for.
A short amount of time untill I just couldn't take it. And I met this we had. I met this girl named Mikaela, who we seemed to bond and make could sing very well together. I mean she she was left handed, so that makes it really good for right handed and left handed guitar players to play on one mic, because you don't get in any others way like Lennon and mcartney,
you know. Anyway, So we had worked up a bunch of songs, and we had a bunch of stupid, silly, funny pattern that went along with it, and we were going over with the audiences and in the folk clubs, and we managed to little tour and we made it down to San Jose and I met a guy that was playing good banjo and stuff and loved to smoke pot named Paul Cantner, and he was just hanging out
at the at the folk Club. He was still going to San Jose State, I think at the time, and I and I stayed at his house whenever we played there, and we stay up all night smoking and picking. And we worked our way down to Los Angeles and to Pasadena at the ice House, and we played there, and the manager decided he would he would manage us and find us gigs. And this had to be sixty three because I was there when JFK was was it. Yeah, you always remember that. Of course she remembers everywhere there
were We were right right. But he managed to get us out on a tour of various clubs, you know, st all over Christmas Week that was Lovely Oklahoma, Chicago, Detroit, and we ended up playing at the bottom Line in New York City. I think we followed Woody Allen actually, and we did our little spiel and he had got people record company people to come. What was his name, I forgetting who is the doors producer? Paul was Paul Rothchild and he was electure records, and he was there
and he called. He gave us a phone call, and we went in, went in to see him in his office and he says he told us, he actually told us this. He says, let me tell you, folks, songs are not going to last much longer than this new group from England. I said, what group from England? He said to Beatles, He says, they're never going to make it. He says, but I could get you in one like the new Christie minstrels, maybe these big things. Maybe I could get you guys in one of those. What would
you think of that? And we thought about it and said, well, I don't know. Maybe. And I hadn't heard the Beatles yet. And we're driving down and we're driving down to Washington, DC for our last East Coast thing, and the Beatles come on. The I Want to Hold Your Hand comes on and it knocked us out. What was he talking about? You know? And uh? And that was just funny things that happened. And when we got to Denver on our way home, the Beatles played on Ed Sullivan and we
saw that and I could see this was done. And Michaela and her husband when they got married. He was playing bass with us. It's called David Michaela with Bob Conker on bass and wit you know, really schlocky, but they laughed at it. He made the face at the right time, they'd laugh. So they when they got married, they stopped smoking pot and thought that I should too, and it wasn't going to happen. Their sense of humor changed.
So and so, and I got there, and I just got back to San Jose and hooked up with Paul and he had a little like communal thing in the house. And I stayed there and we decided we were going to go to La and see if we could be folked to it. That might be fun. But and so we got down there and with the help of the girl, the secretary of the man, the guy at the Bob I think his name is Bob Shane, that the manager of the ice house in Pasadena. She was she but
Laurie I think her name is Laurie Spring. And she helped us find a place to live and actually ended up sharing it with us because she needed a place to And it was in Venice, like four doors from the beach, which is pretty good but not conduced it to and and the whole. I mean that time was not the time to be forming a folk group. It was a time to be forming a rock and roll band. And David Crosby I had run into him there and in uh at the ice House when his was Les
Baxter's Balladeers. It was the folk group he was in. He and his brother were in it. And we just vibe, says to tout know that we both we know we must both must have smoked so and so I was fast friends with him from then on. So and he would come by our place while he's bumming around, and he still didn't And Jim Jim, it was Jim McGuinn who was who was playing Beatles songs in the bar outside at the Troubadour all night long and for me trying to form a band. And but meanwhile we're living there.
And Dino Valenti, who was a singer, folks singer that I had met in San Francisco when I was singing with MICHAELA and stuff. And he comes by and he has this a lead sheet for this song called Pride of Man, which by Hamilton Camp and uh, and he gives it to me because he doesn't he didn't read music and he couldn't figure it out. So anyway, so that that was just it ended up being quick still or messenger service first first single, I believe anyway, that's jumping around a little bit.
No, that's perfect. I just got a question. Yeah, did you know when he was Jet Powers before he was Dino Valente?
No, he was always Dino Valenti. I mean I knew that he was Jet Power. I learned that from him. I mean, you know, he hung up. He was the kind of guy. I mean, if you could do something for him, he'd be your friend, you know, and so I could drive him. I just kind of was interested in him because he was he was such a all out guy. I mean, you know when he's singing, man, you're stomping and you know, and I said, well that
that's a hell of an act. That and I probably learned a little bit about singing, and I learned about a lot of things not to do, you know. But he wrote some pretty damn good songs.
Okay, you're living in Venice with Paul Canner and the woman Dino Valenti comes through. What's the next step for you? After that?
Uh, shortly after that, we figured out this isn't working, yea, and moved back to San Jose and with somebody who had opened up the what was it called the off Stage was the folk club in San Jose and had taken it over and wondered if we would help him
run it, and so, okay, there's something to do. So we did that, and we stayed, you know, in this in the Santa se area for a while and did that and tried to make that work, and it ultimately went the way of all the folk clubs and and so we ended up moving to the city and we were kind of, I don't know, we might have dealt a little a little pot just so we had some to smoke, but it definitely didn't make us any money.
But one day I'm driving in San Francisco. We moved into a flat in the Fillmore district, right across from one of the biggest notorious badass tenement thing as you could imagine. And I was driving around and I turned made a left turn and I didn't realize it was it was after four o'clock and there's no left turns, and I make the left turn and I get busted. The guy looks fine, pot under the seat, and I go off to jail and a girlfriend I had bailed me got my bail out, and and I felt, God,
what am I going to do? Man? I don't want I don't want to call attention by if I live with these people, it might hurt them because I never consider getting arrested, right, you know, because I don't know. I was naive. I guess was this pot dude? Man, you have a good time note anybody you know? Yeah, But they were serious about it. So so I thought, well, I'll get a straight job, and so I look good,
maybe they'll be. So I got a job at a freight forwarding company and I moved out, and after a couple of couple of about a month of paychecks, I managed to get a place in Merin County, and the little house in San Quentin Village overlooked the Sandrafell Bridge.
And I go to work and I do my my letters and forums and stuff and hating it every second, and go back across the bridge every night, get stoned and get out my twelfth drink and figure out how to play all the Beatles songs you know, and sing them at the time of my voice to the Sandrafell Bridge.
You know. And I did that for like a month, two months, you know, And one day there's a knock on the door and it's a friend, a loose friend called Otis, and he says, hey, you got any pot, And I said, sure, I got some seeds and stems. Come on in, you know, and I said, here, help yourself. And by the way, listen to this, I said. So I had an audience for me. So I sang them
all the Beatles songs. And he was just sitting there and look at visioning and saying, and he says, he says, okay about the pot, He said, can I get you? Can I get ten dollars worth? And I said, look, I don't think this is ten dollars worth here, man, it's just mostly sees. Take it all, forget it, you know. And he says, no, no, no, no, take five. I said, well take it anyway. I'll take the five. Okay. He leaves and the next day there's a knock on the door.
The next night and it's the state narcotics officer and the sheriff and the district attorney, and apparently they were trying to he told he told them that I was his dealer and I had never sold him anything, you know, And I said, and the ten dollar bill was marked five dollar bill was his, so they couldn't get me
on sales. But they arrested me for possession and they found seeds in the trunk of my car, which made them to confiscate my car, took me off to jail, and I and I I couldn't ask the girlfriend for anymore bail. And I, you know, I probably had enough money coming to me from my last paycheck from from from the place to pay to pay them on. But nobody to hunt to, nobody that had any property enough that would, you know, to guarantee it. And so I
was stuck there. I was sat in there for thirty days and Paul comes and visits me.
Wait, wait, before Paul visits you, what's it like being a nice Jewish boy in jail.
In Santrafel, California. It was not any real big deal. I mean, it wasn't nice or anything, you know, And it was It wasn't in the beautiful new building that they have out there. It was in the old courthouse in the middle of Santafel. And I kind of probably went back to the Civil War as far as I know when it was a built but and and so I don't know if they made They took me out of the general population, made me a trustee. So I
was sitting. I don't know why they did that, because be a trustee, you're supposed to be convicted of something. And I hadn't even gone to trial yet, so anybody but I was there, you know, with I don't know the elite people, I guess of the jail. And Paul comes to visit me and he notices there's a little hole in the ancient window and he slides a little joint through there. And meanwhile I was telling me, me
and Marty Ballad are getting it. We're going to put a band together, which is what all of us were thinking about, because we had all bought, you know, electric instruments because we knew that was where we had to go if we wanted to sing anywhere. And he says, he, well, that's that's really great. So what And he says, I think we're going to call it Jefferson Airplane. And I didn't ask him what that meant, but I said, that's perfect,
and he said, yeah, I would be able. I hope you get out of here soon I said, well, I don't know, I trust I will and uh. And so shortly thereafter they I had to go to a court appearance, and they decided, well, if you're not going to get bail, we don't want to get stuck feeding you for two years.
So they you don't look dangerous, so they just let me out of my own recognizance and they i'me out in the streets, and some friends had gotten my guitar and everything from the house, and my check was there, but of course I lost my job, and and so I'm there and I MC John Chippolina and Jimmy Murray and I were already trying kind of had the idea that Dina was looking to form a band. I think he through Dino could probably it was just loosely. I had met him and and they and I don't know,
and we were hanging out. I had no place to stay. I was sleeping on people on girls floors and stuff, you know, anywhere I could sleep, and Dino was in jail, so we had to do something else. So we said, well, let's I guess we'll have our own band, you know. And so we were hanging out in the park and saucelito and pick and sing, and you know a lot
of people were doing that. And there was this guitar player named Skip came down and and we played with him and said this, this could work, This could work because Jim he fit in pretty well, good looking kid, he and he played nice guitar and sang really well. So we took Paul up. Marty Ballen was opened had opened the Matrix Club in San Francisco where the Jefferson Airplane rehearsed, and Paul and Marty said, you know, you guys come over and practice here sometimes if you get
something together. And so we went over there with a guy named Casey who was a jazz drummer. We just got some big sticks. That's the thing that you could play, you know, rock and roll, And we bought Skip over and we tried to tried to do some stuff and it wasn't really working too well. And Marty walked in and he said to Skip, do you play drums? He said, I played snare drum in high school. I played snare drum in the high school band. And he said, you're
Jefferson Airplane's new drummer, and he was Skip Spence, Skip spence. Yep, next, what next? What's going to happen? Is all of a sudden, that first bust is going to come up for trial, and so I have and I go over there and they find me guilty and sentenced me to a sixty day sentence in San Bruno Prison in San Francisco, and I have two weeks to get my stuff together and turn myself in at police orcer headquarters in San Francisco. And so John and Jimmy and I are turning to
fair what are we going to do? And I said, well, it's only sixty days, so I get I'll get out of there probably, and if I behave well, I'll get out a little earlier than that. So I'll see you laters. But meanwhile, I took some acid on the day night before I had to turn myself in and met a girl named named Tangerine who I'd known, and we had a really good time. And as I'm turning myself in,
I'm still stone quite a bit. And the door I take to take the elevator up from the ground floor to the to the jail floor, and I pushed the jail button and the door closes, and then it opens and nobody's there. I said, I push it again. The door closes and then it opens. Nobody's there. What am I If it does it again, I'm going to take that as an omen and just leave. I push the button, it closes and it goes up. And so that's and on on the TVs in the jail there there's the
Turtles playing Ellinorgy. You're looking swell. So I don't know as little as I didn't know that drummer was getting anyway, So off the sand, off to San Bruno, and they want me to cut my hair or else I'll have to stay with the gay guys. And I said, well,
probably I should have stayed with the gay guys. But I cut my hair, and and somehow, because I seemed kind of harmless, they made me a trustee again and I could I could lock myself and when they're in a free time, then I had I had a cell that look look was right, so you could see the TV set, the one TV set for everybody right was there. And so but they locked you in to that, I said, well that looked like a plus to me, to be locked in, not being able to talk, you know, in
interact with anybody else, and so I did that. And uh and in forty five days I got out and they had took me back, raced me at at city Hall. Had to go up and see my my uh, probation guy, and but he was not he was out to lunch. So I had had to come back in two hours. So John Chippolina and Jimmy Murray were picking me up, you know, and and uh, and they told me that they found two They found two guys from merced Or they thought he were for mer said or, I don't know,
modesto and a drummer and another guitar player. And and I think that we could have a band with them, and I said great. And so we all smoked a bunch. Finally got to smoke a little pot. Well, yeah, that was what that was what I did every day and not in jail though, But and uh, so I go up and he says, he says, you know, the probation officer says, I know there's nothing wrong with pot. I know it should be legal, but it isn't. So I
wanted you to understand, to take it more seriously. So I gave you this little sentence so you so you'd understand. So so just stay away from that stuff. I said, oh yeah, I'll never get to touch a stone out of my mind. But and so I go back down and it's Gary Duncan and Greg Alamore, the other guys
from for Quicksellar Messenger Service. We start practicing and the basement of some a girl, a girl's house named after her name was Chris Brooks, and so she thought she'd be our manager or whatever, and and that's and so we get it together and we come up with the Quicksilver Messenger Service thing because John Okay, Gary Duncan, and Gregor mare Elmore or virgos born on the seventh of September, John Chipley and I were virgos born on the same day,
twenty fourth of August. And Jimmy Murray, who he didn't really last all the way to Soil. We made the records, but there's too much work for him. I think he was a Gemini, and we all had the ruling planet of Mercury, which is quicksilver, and he's the mess So we all came and it was me or Murray something I came Quicksilver Messenger Service. That seems ridiculous, but it sounded good to us. So there we are.
Okay, you got the band together, when do you start playing out? How does it end up that you end up getting a record deal.
It took us a long time, a really long time, but the committee gave us our first gig. You remember the company, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Howard Hessemen. Yeah, well I knew Howard. I was an old buddy from when he was a folks when I was a folcusinger. I used to sleep on his floor every now, you know. And he was a bartender at at the at the coffee gallery for his day gig. And uh so anyway, uh so, they I think they gave us one hundred bucks to come play their Christmas party and that was fairly successful.
And they said, we wondered if we'd record a version of the Star Spangled Banner. And we found somebody and we did that, and we moved to Marine County somehow with in an old shack in Larkspur. No longer there. It's all built up into nice things now. And we just played all day and night, smoked and played, smoked and played, you know, and had some some hippie hippie
managers that brought us lots of health food. You know, all in one cereal and lots of you know, organic honey, and we had food to eat and and we we got, we got. We started getting gigs at the Avalon and I met my first my next wife there, which was Julia Dreyer, who was known as Girl, and she was hanging with us too. And there's lots of stories.
Okay, you're living in Larkspur.
It's gonna get too detailed.
The hippies are giving you, you know food, What are you living on? You know, you don't know. You don't have a regular job, no straight job.
We got occasional gigs and people would help us.
I don't know what was going through your mind.
That this was really fun when we played, you know, and they didn't have a I had never played bass before, but somebody had to and so since I had played twelve string, I don't know what that had to do with it, but I played bass, and so I was figuring that out and we played. We learned a bunch of songs, folks songs, but Pride to Man among them, and it all sounded good. We started playing at the fillmore in the Avalon, and we got a pretty good following.
Okay, a little bit slower. You remember the opening in the film, wore the opening of the Avalon and what that was like?
Not particularly No.
Okay, Then let me ask you another one. How about Ken Keezy the Mary Prankster's Acid. Was that something that was on your radar?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, we were well that had to be on everybody's radar if you were anywhere in San Francisco. Sure I knew knew all of those guys. I mean we were all buddy, I mean we all came to see each other play The Grateful Dead and Greick Silver and Airplane and a Big Brother and Holding Company where they're there, Hello Janis again, thank you? Okay.
First band to have a hit out of the San Francisco scene was the Jefferson Airplane in sixty seven. So did you feel left downery feel if they can make it? We can make it?
But everybody thought they could make it. But I don't know. We're playing and we have a We have a manager who was an astrologer. His name was Amber Ambrose Hollingsworth. And as soon as he became our manager, he somehow managed to find a Volkswagen convertible and all of a sudden he was wearing the latest clothes from you know, from the Los Angeles hippies were wearing and we to call behind back. We were calling Ambrose Hollywood, you know.
But that was too bad. But unfortunately he got into this accident that left him paralyzed, driving driving over the driving over the bridge. And a and a friend of and a friend of a guy named Ron Polti who is the friend friend of Nick Gravinidis who played with uh, Mike Bloomfield and the Electric Flag. Okay, he's from the Chicago the Chicago guys. He did. He decides he'd like to be our manager, and they said, well, what do
you need? He said, I think at that point we were living in a house that was right in the middle of Mill Valley, which was right out in the open and terrible place to try to rehearse or anything. And so we want to have a hot we want to be on a farm with with the barn we can practice in. And in a week he had us in a barn we could practice it in Olema, which
is out of near Point Ray Station. And the Grateful Dead had had what used to be a children's summer camp in Lagunitas, not you know, down the road from where we were, and they moved in there for the summer and they were practicing there. And so one day we were cleaning some pot in a big bowl, and all of a sudden we hear a bunch of whooping
outside and it's grateful dead dressed like Indians. It's because we were the cowboys living on the ranch and they the war Path come in and attack us, and so we all thought that was really funny, and get around and everybody gets gets stoned, and yaki aka yaka, that's funny, okay. And then they go home. And meanwhile Dino was there. He wasn't in the band, but he's hung with us a bunch, and he said, you know what we should do. We should practice up Elijah was a wooden Indian and
sing this song. And then when they're playing at the fillmore dress up in cowboy things with bandanas over our faces and guns and tie them to their amps in Saint Elijah was a wooden Indian. And everybody thought that's a wonderful idea. I don't know why they thought that, but it ended up getting us busted again, because you know, I mean, John Chippolina had ancient some ancient rifles that were most of them were let it up, but they were just collectors items, you know. He liked old things
and so that was part of it. So we had a panel truck that was our equipment truck and quotes, and so we dragged off. We get to to the fillmore and the airplane's going over and so Grateful Dead aren't quite on yet and so we had to say, okay. So we throw all the stuff in the back of the truck and there's smoke, a few joints, and all of a sudden there's door open. Front door opens it and there's a revolver pointing it and we thought it was probably one of the other guys with the phony gun.
Look at no, it's real and it was the police. Uh oh. And they grabbed me and girl and Jimmy Murray out of the back that we were the eyes that were there. Throw us in the back of the policeman. Well, they're going to search the truck. And I had some joints in my pocket, but Jimmy had stashed it under his gig stuff under something and then the truck, which is the wrong thing to do, but he did. And he said they're going to find joints in there, man,
and they're going to find it. And I said, well, well, everybody's got to help me. We got to eat all we got to eat all the spots. So we eat all the pot because they had they had Jimmy Or he was six foot four, so they handcuffed him, but girl and me they didn't handcuff because we were they didn'tren't worry too much about us, and so we did that. And then they ship us off the tail overnight and we're out first thing in the morning, and uh and they are they arrest once again. They found pot in
this in this vehicle. They're gonna confiscate it and sell it. And the guy that owned the owned the owned the van said, if they try to toe that, I never I never really fastened the drive shaft in, so it's going to fall out. And so I don't think they're never going to be able to sell it. And so okay, And so meanwhile there's this lawyer named Brian Rohan. I don't know if you've come across.
I used to email from him. Yeah before he passed away, yep, yeah, yeah yeah.
And uh so he decided he represented us and got us out immediately immediately and decided they were going to make an example of it, and they were going to try the truck and every vehicle that came across their desk. They were going to make them go to you know, they're going to fight it as long as they could and make it cost so much money for them for them to do that they'd stop it. And at worked
they did stop confiscating us. So anyway, so one day we went went out went to the to the to the the auction for the cars for the state at Saint Quentin, actually right outside Saint Quentin, and there was there was the van with the drive shaft in the back, and we bought back for fifty bucks and a guy put the drive shaft back in drove away. So anyway, Little Tails, I'm remembering much too much.
No no, no, no, no, no, it's all good. This is cold. How does the band ultimately get a record deal with Capitol?
I think the president came by and saw us one night when we played at a fair gig, and he liked us. But it was just like nineteen six, I mean we were really late. I mean this was sixty seven and we still hadn't signed you know, right, And he said, we'll think about it, And meanwhile, Monterey Pop is happening, and we get invited to it, even though
we had didn't have any record or anything. But so far as San Francisco was concerned, I mean, people would come to see us just as much as they'd go see the Big Brother or Jefferson Airplane or the Dead or anything, because they all liked us as much as anything, you know what I mean, that was all equal in San Francisco. But go out in the road, well that was another thing. So we'd have to have a record
for that. So we realized we better do this sometime and so but meanwhile we did get to go to Monterey. That was probably the best festival that ever happened. I think, best one I ever saw.
Okay, and then how do you end up getting signed and making the first album?
Then he went for it and gave us a pretty good deal. Apparently it was not smooth sailing, of course, because it was Quicksilver Messengers, But we went down and recorded with the same Nick Nick Nick Gravin. I just wanted to do it. And Harvey Brooks, who was the bass player, well really famous bass player, played on all the Bob del and stuff, and he.
Played in al Cooper in Super Session Harvey's.
Two and he was it was in the Electric Flag. Was really close to our managers, you know. I think he gave him the flag that had an electric thing, and that was the elect caused the name to happen, the Electric Flag. Okay, So anyway, where was I? Okay? So he and Harvey Brooks are trying to do it, get us do it, and we had this long song that we wanted to get on the albums called the Fool.
And I had written the words when I apparently when I was high on acid, because when I woke up in the morning that after the acid chip, I looked at my typewriter and there were the words. I must have typed it out, and I said, this sounded like me, So, you know, very very hippish, very very very one world, you know. And we had the song, this bunch of changes that we were turning into a very big thing, and when we played it, it got a lot of
a lot of very good reactions. So we tried to do that and it went pretty good, except for the long one. Because Gary decided he had been We've been watching how the Beatles did things one track at a time, and he wanted to do it that way, and it just when we heard the final result, we said no, we got to do it live, play it all at once, and we had complete commit The contract was good because we could do whatever we really wanted to do, so we could we didn't have to put it out until
we were done with it. But Harvey said, I've spent enough time on this. I have other things I have to do, so he left it with Nick and I think there was a jazz critic named Pete Welding who ended up being the nominal co producer with Nick Revenitis.
But anyway, so we went back and we actually rehearsed it in the studio a couple of months that figured out how we really wanted to do it, and played it on the road a bit, and then went back and finished the record and it finally came out in sixty eight, which is really late.
Okay, so the record gets good reviews, what's your experience being in the band? Does it? Does sales meet your expectation? Or you're disappointed there's not a hit? What happens there?
Yeah, there wasn't. Actually the only actual hit was was the full really, but it was too long to be to be really get played on the radio, so and it couldn't have been and it couldn't be edited down to anything because it wasn't a pop song. It was this big production. And anyway, Gary Duncan was when we went out on the road, he started he started shooting methodrym,
which was disastrous. He's got completely completely paranoid, you know, and everybody was against him and played okay, played too many notes, but you know, uh, and he ended up quitting the band right after we had recorded live in at the Fillmore East and the Fillmore West. What was going to be our We were going to record a live album for the next thing, and he decides he's gonna he's gonna quit, and so well we decided, well we want to record one last thing. So we had
one last session and we go into the studio. We played our song that turned out to be called Calvary. But the guy had an idea for the for the title, and he was watching us there. He was going to make the album cover and he said, well, see that, nobody's talking to each other and it's all and Duncan's fucked up and you know, and he said, wow, it looks like Happy Trails to me, and uh, oh yeah, a good name for the album. Okay, I you know,
I refuse to get negative because he's gonna leave. Something's going to happen. I don't know. He shouldn't leave because he was he was a great rhythm guitar player and a great and a great lead guitar player too, and he was really good and and he was kind of like the machine of the band. But we're going to have to do something, and so he leaves, and so it was left for us to finish the album without him,
and so we did. We finished the Calvary song and uh recorded Happy Trails with Greg Ellenmore singing the only only song he's ever sung just as a joke at the end, and uh, and we end up with the who Do You Love Sweet? On the first side and with the combination of the beginning was from the New York Fillmore, the middle part was from San Francisco Fillmore, where the whole audience in the band and everybody and
anywhere within blocks was all stoned on acid. And the end I believe we probably might have used the Fillmore East, but maybe not maybe maybe at all. At the mid midway part has shifted to San Francisco, and it took up the whole first side, and it was the biggest selling record you made.
How on the third album does Dino Valente come in and Nicky Hopkins.
Well it was Dino didn't come in the third album was the fourth album? Okay, Nicki came in on the third right, Well, they quit on New York. They played their last gig on Gary played his last gig on New Year's Eve and ended up coming back the next New Year's Eve. So we had a year. I don't Nicki. Nicki was in town. I think he'd played with on Steve Miller's album. Then he played on Jefferson Airplanes album and we had one we were coming up next at Wally Hyder's. And he had a very an affinity with
John Chippelina. He really they were really hit it off. They were if you want to go to stop astrologically, he was. He was the obsolete opposite of me and John. He was born on February twenty fourth, which is exactly six months apart. So anyway, they were they were very much alike. Hell, they both collected things and I don't know that. They just they became. So he decided he joined Quicksilver. So we made this album with NICKI.
How did you feel about him joining? How did you feel about the album.
Got him joining? Yeah, he saved us, he said, I never I never got very happy about the songs I sang on that album. But there there are people that love them. But I don't quite understand. But but everybody tells it. It's everybody. Every singer is his own worst, worse critic, you know. So I'll never be satisfied with anything.
So okay, the next album, Dino comes in, how does he get into the band?
Came back the next next year, but I wanted to get Gary back in the band, and Dino came with him. Well, he said, I know that's going to be trouble because Dino has to run things. I mean, he doesn't know anything else. He can't cooperate with anybody. So I knew him by then and said, well, oh well, let's see what happens. So the first thing was that we're gonna We're gonna record an album in Hawaii. That sounded like a wonderful thing to do because he wanted to go
to Hawaii. I guess, I don't know. There was no real studio that we could record them and over there. So we're going to build it. And Capitol had given us an eight track to work with, and so the plan was made. I wasn't very big part of that, but the plan was made. There was this old boy scout ranch way out in the out Holai Eva on Oahu, out for a bunch of cane fields, and it was a boy scout ranch and they had a big, nice, big room and enough places for everybody to stay, and
it was pretty cheap. It only had one drawback. It didn't have electricity, but we say, oh well we'll get it. We'll get a generator. You know, no problem, they have generators. And so we get we get over there, everybody comes over and every every and Dino is really happy. You know, he's going to live it up. Man. We're in a big time band, man, you know. And so everybody gets a convertible and and we get there and they cannot get a good ground on that, on that anywhere on
the property they keep there. They couldn't get the ground. So you record something and going that'd be a huge buzz on everything. And they couldn't get it ground It took him two weeks to get it grounded. Right. So we're sitting there renting cars, and we sit there and
waste two weeks. We have a rented beautiful grand piano, and you know, and what was going to be the it was it was really the kind of the living area, you know, in the living room area, and we built, we had a we had a little little control room, and it was it would work fine. And eventually it did work okay, And but it was crazy Dena wouldn't let any wives go over there. That he made the rules. See, no wives were allowed to go with us.
So that album is known for fresh air. Have another hit of fresh Air? Yeah, you know it ends up being a different band now with Dino in it.
Yes it does. And I kind of knew that, but I don't know. I didn't. I didn't want to be in that band without Gary. And then, as it turns out, before we left Hawaii, Ron Poulte our manager, Quiz, Tohn Ceppelina Quiz and Nicki Quitz, and I say, well, if I quit, there won't be any I don't want to be, you know, And so I say I'll stick around for a year. If nothing happens, I'm out of here. I mean, if I'm not doing something, you know, and nothing happened.
I mean we we got another album probably out of some of the stuff that the next one that came out, I think it had what About Me on it, right, which was which was a pretty good song. I like that song. I like to sing that song. That's a good song. But I could see nothing was happening anyway. I ended up Mike, excuse another pot bust is coming up. So they always ends up good though, you know, first one ended up I had, I got the band.
Yeah, what happened with the second boss?
It was dismissed Byron Rohan got it dismissed. So I never but you know, it got me out of the job where I was wasting my time. Really, you know, it wasn't going to help me get anywhere or do anything that I could do. I could end up being a clerk for the rest of my life. But I really wanted to sing and play, you know. So it put me into Quicksilver. Actually, and and this next one handily gets me out of Quicksilver.
So now you don't have a band. What's the plan?
Well, that was an entertaining bus too, but that gets boring talking about bus, so let's get that. Uh. First thing I did was I got out my base wanted to play a little bit. So there's this band called the Asa Cups that a girl, all girl band, and they had another and they had formed a different thing, and they wanted to wonder if I'd played bass because
their bass player had stopped them. So I just did it for a couple of few months, and I started hanging out with Mickey Hart from the From the Dead. He hadn't ranch in Nevado, that's you know, you know, a couple of miles away from me, and I started hanging with him. He was making his his first solo album, and so I hung with him and sang a bunch of songs and helped helped engineer. Started thinking of me being an engineer, but I did engineer whole tower of
power horn session. So so you know, I was just started hanging with him and you know, and singing, singing a bunch of the songs on his album and playing
a bunch of the stuff. And there was a song called And meanwhile, over in San Francisco, Crosby was making his his album if I, if I could only remember my name, And and that was turning into a group thing too, because everybody, you know, all all a lot of the dead, and Paul and Grace and I were over there for a lot of the sessions, just just just to hang and watch out and see if there's
anything we could do. And there was a whole thing called the what they call it, where everybody like Crosby, Nash, Phil Lesh, Paul, Grace, Me, Crosby, course Jerry Garcia would be there and we'd all just hang out, be jamming on songs. And I mean, I learned how to play that song, the Grateful Dead song, the Loser. He was
writing that at that point. So he was playing that, and we ever teaching to everybody, and we were all playing that, and every bit of it was recorded on two tracks, and it was called the Paro the Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra, the PAO tapes, and that got out as an underground thing. So these long long jams on on one song or so anyway, So that was happening, and so I was hanging out with Paul and Grace a lot, and I heard this one song, I heard them singing on it. Would sound really good.
It's called Blind John the guitar player, and they could sing on it if they if they wanted to, and said you want to sing it? So they said sure, So we brought him over to Mickey's and they we sang the background vocals and Grace actually I saw her, said I heard, I heard a piano part for that,
she played the piano. And shortly after we finished Mickey's album, Marty left the airplane and Paul and Grace asked me to come and sing the harmonies and be the other other guy singer because they had to be two guys and a girl. And so that got me into Jefferson.
Airplane, okay, and Jefferson the Airplane that ultimately disintegrates.
Right, So meanwhile, there's there's some time off after after all the touring for they were touring uh Long John Silver, I think that was the name of the album, right, But Paul and Grace both owed Narcia record, so the first one ended up being Baron von told Booth and the Chrome Nun, which is credited to Paul, Grace and me because we just got together and put it to you know, got it together, and everybody else in San Francisco because Jerry Garcia is on it, and Mickey Hart's
on it, you know, Yorman jack Aer on it, you know, everybody's it. And that that was pretty good. And then then Grace O had had one called Manhole and it was the same thing. You know, we used the Great San Francisco Wealth of Musicians and we did that one, and then we had had to figure out what are we going to do? And Pete Sears was was was up playing get Nick doing a Kathy m MacDonald album in the same in another studio at Wally Hyder's, and I
coveted him when I first saw him. He was playing with John Schippolina's band after he left Quicksilvery, and there was a guy named Jim McPherson and him that played both played keyboards and bass, and so they switched back and forth, and I thought that would be great because I would love to be in a band with him because he played them both beautifully, you know, and he was and so I brought I hinted it Paul and Grace,
you know, to meet this guy. So I brought him over and he played jammed a little blue song which Grace turned into Better Lie Down I think on her album and and they got to know him, which is very good. And so when it came time what are we going to do? How are we going to get to band together? And said, well, and what are we going to call it? Well, you know, you know that you know about Paul's blows against the empire, had it was who the cast was, who played the players? Where
he called it the Jefferson Jefferson Starship Crew. So he had already had the name. It seemed obvious that that's what we should let the name turn into. And everything went that way. And so when Pete Didget, I think he was playing with a Rod Stewart album in England, and when when that was over, he came back and we went on the first tour without him because he was finishing that record. But he came back and was on all the all the Jefferson Starship albums.
Okay, the first one, Dragonfly. There's one successful track, Caroline, sung by Marty, but Marty isn't in the band. How does that work? And how does Marty end up in the band.
Well, that's how he ended up in the band, I think, because because he didn't like what was happening between Yorman and Jack and Paul and Grace, and nobody wanted to do what he wanted to do. I think, what's just sing Marty ballance songs, you know, And and that worked that he could still write with with Paul and so I assume that's why why he agreed to come back and do Red Octopus with us.
Red Octopus is a gigantic success with Miracles. Did you guys know it was going to be so big?
I could feel. I never wanted to think about, oh, this is going to be really big or anything like that. I just wanted but I knew that that one from the moment we played it in the studio. I mean, because we rehearsed it and it was a lot of fun. When we played it in the studio, every everybody did exactly the right thing. That was like that was like a magical one to me.
Okay, this is the first time you've been making music for years, but this is the first time you've been involved with something that is commercially successful.
He yeah, And.
Was your life now different? Were you making any money? It was a big band and you didn't write the hit, but you were on the album. How did it all work out?
For you worked that great, I thought. I mean, I mean we had a song, I think song on the album that it wasn't a hit, but it got played. Actually I played the the intro that the we're gonna look at the beginning was mine. So that's kind of the first hook.
So the next album is successful, not as successful as Redoctopus, almost nothing could be right. And then you know the band starts, you know, switching into something different. Okay, yeah, tell me about that.
Oh what was that Kevin Beamish? Right?
Will you make another record? And that is nowhere near as successful? When's the change? Ron Nevison comes in? You write the same gene you're on that album. Yeah, but ron Nevison is is about Lucy Goosey, like San Francisco. No, no, So how did you feel about all that?
I thought he did a great job actually, but he had his own problems, but he got it done. I mean, you know, I wasn't the only writer. I mean I started the song and my friend Jim McPherson and I wrote that wrote the melodies and the changes and the words. I mean, he helped me with the words. Basically I had the melody and the changes, but Craig came up with that great rock arrangement, so that's the CASEO and Paul came up with the intro, so that was his
little lick at the beginning. So that's so they each got's points on it.
So okay, then there's another album, you know with ron Nevisin where Craig writes the hit find Your Way Back. Yeah, And how does Nicky Thomas get in the bed?
Well, he was in the band for when Grace left. He was he sang Jane, didn't he right?
But how did you find him? How were you? He was working with Elvin Bishop. How did he end up in your band?
Well, Marty and Grace both quit and Paul and I agreed with him, said said he thought we needed a new lead singer, so we started auditioning people and we had Jane. So it kind of seemed like the person that sang Jane best was gonna was going to be the guy. And uh, I don't know quite remember how he be came who talked him into coming in?
Okay, how do you ultimately leave?
Well, there's a few albums before I know, we'll tell you the story. Uh. He brought in Peter wolf Right, who was the most. If anybody's around and you need keyboards played, it'd have to be him, because he was a genius and he was he was great. But I don't know, I was doing less. I was doing much less. You know. I'd sing and maybe I'd get to play a little keys or something here, or play a little bass.
And it felt like they were going more towards being a corporate kind of band, you know what I mean, where they're going to say, Okay, we'll sit here and we'll listen to people's songs and we'll pick the songs we're going to do, which is what it turned into after I left and Paul left, and so you know, and it was trying of it was moves to pull push Paul out, you know, because nobody wanted to do his crazy songs or anything, you know, and I kind
of like Paul's crazy songs. Some of them were really good. And uh, but I also have a hard time quitting band. Says well, I noticed I should have quit Quick Sliver before I did, and I probably should have quit this one.
Well how did it add? Did they push you to you jump?
Oh? They pushed, they pushed, But I saw it coming. I mean I could. I could tell by all the contracts that were being signed and things like that. Oh, people could be fired from the band. Okay yet da yeah yeah, yeah yeah, I said, I said, SKay them, now they can fire me. So I expected it. I expected because I wasn't doing anything and I and I was thinking about getting out myself, you know, So that just made it final. So you know, I didn't take
it that hard. Actually, and you know, if I if I, if I hadn't been it didn't get out of it, I probably never would have met my wife. Now went the magnificent Linden Imperial and uh and so I was quite happy about it.
Actually, okay, you're out of the band. What are you going to do for money?
Oh, I'll screep it up somehow, you know, I had some money anyway, pushed it put away and so I don't know, I went. I started. I hung out with Gary Duncan again, who seemed to be reasonable again. And actually that's how I met Linda. You know. I got a phone call and he says, hey, David, I got this chick singer coming coming around and I need to do some background vocals and and because the ones that are on there. Man, the girls got too screwed up and I can't use any of it. He says, Okay,
I'll come over. And so I ended up picking up this chick singer at the bus stop and bringing them over to it to his studio, and it was Linda Imperial and h just like falling off a lall we're saying, I think four did four background four songs, backgrounds topped a bottom in one day and it was beautiful.
Okay, Well, how long did it last with the marriage with the woman you met at the film bore?
Oh? Julia, Well, I have a beautiful daughter with her. Jessica girl, Yeah, girl, girl, Julie, Julia. We got divorced, very dignified. I mean it was it was easy. We all just got together and said, well what do we have? We have this house? Okay, you want me to buy your half of it? And she said that sounds really good. So I bought her half of the house. I don't think her lawyer liked it, but she insisted that's all she wanted.
Okay, at this late date, do you get any royalties.
From what?
From records? Songs? Sure enough to live on.
Close?
Oh that's good, that's good. So the way you tell the story is you were kind of bumping around and he said I want to I kind of want to do this, and you were kind of falling into things. Is that an accurate description or were you really aggressive? Has got a bad connotation, But were you more like, well, geez, I kind of want to do this. You know, I met this guy. This guy seems to be going somewhere. You know, if we look back, what was it like?
I didn't really think about it like that. I think I wanted to go. I wanted I wanted to be in a band where everybody respected each other and and and you know, and I don't think I ever found one it till I was in the one that I'm in now, because that feels great, It's absolutely great.
And then, you know, if you weren't living in San Francisco, you were hearing about the hate ashbery, you were hearing about drugs, hearing about Summer of Love. What was your take on all of that?
Oh yeah, that was kind of a mistake. I mean, nothing lasts forever. I mean, you can't come out and find and as soon as it hit the I saw somebody like like guys in Vietnam, looking at the Quicksilver Messenger service, uh album on in Time on Times, Time Magazine's cover or something like that. And once once you're in Time magazine or stuff like that, it's all over because because it can't it can't be the same. Everybody's
going to want to come out and see. It has to be turned into a one way I mean, yeah, it has to be turned into a one way street because there's too many, too much traffic and you know, everybody's coming out to see the hippies who went to Meriton County last year.
You know, So before it got all the publicity, was it a dream? Was it great.
For Yeah, for a few months, I'd say maybe six, but you know it it's you know, it wasn't that cut and dried. But for the first year it was fine until it got really big. And then when it gets really big, it's it's too big to I mean, San Francisco couldn't hold all that.
So being a folks singer, yeah, seeing everything, what do you see in today's world? So he can do There was a thought back in the sixties music could change the world. How do you feel about today's world and can it be changed by music? Does it even need changing.
It certainly seems like it needs changing, but it could help. I don't think it could do it. I don't think any one thing could change. People have to change, and are they going to I don't know. But all you can do is try.
Well, would you consider yourself an old hippie you never sold out, or how do you view yourself?
I don't know. I kind of sold out. I made money doing stuff, But yes, I still agree I haven't changed.
It sounds to me like you kind of made money by accident.
Well, I was in the right place at the right time, I must admit. I mean that's part of it. But you have have some talent and and I still have values and and I know that people in our band do that when we have now really do and we're trying trying to change things. But all we can all we can do is is is singing and and and so that people are all just people, man, They're all just people, and they ain't that much different anywhere you go.
And anybody that tells you any different is trying to get something.
So what do you want to be remembered for? Don't need to be remembered. I don't know that's a basic question. Maybe you don't care.
I don't know. I want to remember for a guy that did the did the right thing for as he could. I don't know. That's the kind of all I can ask for.
And you still are in contact with the beat people. You're out on the road with Jefferson Starship, but all the other people from San Francisco band, some you were in, some you weren't, who are still alive, which is a big thing. Is there still a community you still talk to them, or is basically everybody's doing their own thing.
Well, unfortunately, I'm the only time I ever see any old friends is that it's somebody else's funeral. But I'm just trying to to make it to be positive through what's happening now, and that's hard.
The heavy lift. Okay, David, you've belistening to David Freiburg, who was there when it all happened in San Francisco and you know him of course from Quicksilver Jefferson Starship Still Jefferson Starship. I want to thank you for taking this time to speak with my audience. Got back until next time. This is Bob left six
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