Dave Mason

I think it was January February early in the year, and then um, and then the first actually, the first part of it was the my which he was a continuation from the previous year, which was my Rock and Soul review with me and Steve Cropper. How do you know Steve Cropper? Oh? I met Kropp a long time ago here in l A. Really so this is after he paid his dues in Memphis, I guess. So. Um. I mean, you know I've been a fan since I was eighteen nineteen years old. Well, it's funny. He's such

a big guy. You think of a studio guy, and he looks like I could play basketball. Um, it's great. It was a great show. So who else was in the band for how many players did with my with my band okay, and just with Steve with Steve my band. And also we had um a girl from Maui, uh, Gretchen Rhodes who was part of it. Now some of the time you live in Maui? Is that how you met her? Yeah? Okay, let's go back a few years. Whose decision was it to have the Pizza album the

first alone together where it was multi colored? Um, well, basically was supposed to come out like a sunburst. Oh really, but there was no controlling the colors in the press, so, um, every one of them, we just came out different. And whose decision was to do that? Though? Um, it was just a collective decision with Camouflage was the company that did the design work on the album, and um, I guess it's just to put something out you know, different.

And who's your manager? Back then? Alan Peiser was the manager Group three management? Okay? And how did you end up on Blue Thumb through the Group three? So in hindsight, good decision, bad decision. Cross now is dead. It's not a big deal. Good and bad. It's all good, you know, but bad. I mean they were all you know, most people in music business or musicians, as far as I'm concerned, would either be either that or life or crime. It would be one or the other. Okay, let's go back

to the real beginning. Where'd you grow up Worcester, England? You know, we live in America. We're like focused solely on Mary. We could. I know we're Worcester Masses. What's where's Worcester in England? What's does the heartland of England twelve miles from the Welsh border? Okay, Strafford on Avon? Okay? And then what did your father or mother do for a living there? Well, I say my dad was born in so he was relatively old. She was fifty two. Wow.

My mother was I think forty six or forty seven. Um, they have My father had a candy store for forty eight years and um an ice cream factory. Um. And but mostly he was he was racist. He was a what horse racing? Ah, now, I know that's big in the U. Okay, was he did the candy store exists during the Second World War? Good question? Um? I'm not sure. I suppose it must have done. Actually, yeah, I must have.

My father was in the First World War because I was in candy ration then it was hard to get probably okay, So but he knew, you know, he knew a guy. He knew a guy, right, and uh the ice cream factory he owned, Yeah, just a small one for making ice cream for the store. And you had as much ice cream as you wri wanka couldn't have been better. I have to te time. Okay. So, had either your parents been married before? No? So, how many kids were there in the family. Um? I had one

sister that has passed away. There was about seventeen years between us and just the two of you, two of us, and then my father had three kids. Um, from previous Oh, my father was married before I had from a previous marriage. And were you close to those kids or they were already in their own world? Not? No, not really so we you mean, he pretty much kicked them all out when they were sixteen seventeen. So we take care of yourself. So were you like the you know, the fear haired

child that they put all their investment in you? Or we were ignored and let able to run free all of it? Pretty much? I was spoiled. And when did you first start playing music? Why? Out? I guess music and stuff was pretty much from you know, at school, school choirs, stuff like that, school plays, um, and then you know, pretty much guitar was kind of it was like the next thing from model airplanes from me. So we were pre Beatles same time as Beatles um before before.

I mean, it wasn't something. My dream was to go in the Royal Air Force. Really, what where did that come from? That's what I wanted to do, and so I wanted to fly. Why how when did you you? I'm sure you flew on other substances further down the road, but when did you give up the dream? Well? Pretty much, I just wasn't my you know, most of it was just my math skills weren't up to par. So did you try the exams for right? Did you try? Um?

Not really, because it was a question of going to the right schools h and I just basically didn't really try that hard. Okay, So what what age were you when you got your guitar? Well, I guess I don't know. Well, my sister moved to America anyway in the fifties, h to San Diego, and my mother and I went and visited her when I was around about I don't know.

Probably gosh, I don't know what your was. Maybe I was twelve thirteen, Yeah, and that's where a lot of things for me would different because then Ray, what was happening on the radio TV was you know, I mean I grew up with We grew up with you know, black and white TV and one station, the BBC, and a lot of stuff that for me was on the radio radio shows and so and or radio radio Luxembourg or things like that. Um SO bought a lot of

stuff I got turned. Of course, that was the you're at the beginning of all that, you know, bands and guitar and and then while I was in San Diego, I found this ukulele in a trash can and just have a clue what to do with it. But I sort of banged away on it. And then, um, I guess when I got back, I I was still in school. I got my dad bought me a guitar when I just take it to school. So it was basically that. I mean, I just you know, I saw these other things,

bands and stuff. I think, well, Ship, I could do that. I think, so you're you're a confident and gentleman. I guess I didn't do any difference. Okay, So was it tough coming back to uh, the UK after being in San Diego? Not that I don't think. So. Okay, you say you brought your guitar to school? Did you? Did they have like a music program or you played? I played in art class. I got to talk to the art teacher, didn't mind if I bring this in there?

And are you self taught? And can you read music? No? No way? Okay, So how far do you go in school? Um? Well I went to what was called a secondary modern pretty much of which there was A, B and C in D streams and I pretty much was in the A stream stream being the best. And how did that end for you? Well, you go there into your m about sixteen, and then you either go into college or you go to work. And for part of the time I figured I would try my hand at being a draftsman.

Went to a technical college for about a year a half, and by then I was getting more and more into playing and figured, um, you know, I just knew that I was never gonna work nine to five because your personality or something never gonna work for me. I was never gonna There's no way because you're not good with ordering bosses or you're not good with it, you know, this structure, all of it. Probably I'm just you know, and we're your parents supportive. My mother was, yeah, but

that would imply your father wasn't. Well. I pretty you know. I I sort of exited myself. And it's about sixteen anyway, out of the house. And did you support yourself after sixteen? Okay? Playing playing music at that point? You know, sixteen seventeen we had I think it was about that day's when it formed. The Jaguars play you know, pubs, local gigs and covers. I assume, oh yeah, all covers. So what was the game? So what year we in? Like sixty

six years? Are like, um, I don't know what I'm I don't know what you're I mean, I forget what your traffic started sixty seven. The record came out in the Maryland in sixty seven, so would have started basically in sixty six. So yeah, I would have been sixty five sixty four. So you're playing with your band, you're playing covers, and you're happy or you see, there's gotta be something bigger than this. Well, no, I was determined

it was going to be successful one way or another. Okay, so was it a regular band with the same guys UM at first UM, but then it sort of changed around.

There was there was the Jaguars. Then we had a band called the Deep Feeling UM, and then I got and then Jim Capody and I got involved in a band because he lived twelve miles away from me and he had a band called he Was, so he Jim was like an erstwhile Elvis fronting a band called the Sapphires, and then we uh we formed a band called the Hellian's. UM actually did a record for Hi Jackie de Shannon's song which went nowhere. I went out and backed UM.

I think it was with a Helly and so I'm trying to remember if it was with them, went out and did a tour with backing p J PROBYO and UM. Then I kind of moved down to London and a little bit slower. So when you're playing with these bands, do you feel these bands are gonna make it or you're better than the bands and you have to carry the whole thing. I don't really know. I was just I mean, I I mean, I was hoping any one of them could really, I suppose, And so who got

you the deal with Pie? You know, I we I think we got well with that group, the Hellians. We got signed. We had a management company down in London. Um M guy named Maurice King, who um the other two? I forget what other acts? There was one act the Walker Brothers. He had he had the Walker Brothers, one of whom just recently passed, and and so that got me more into the sort of professional seeing. And then um, you know, we played a lot of gigs in Birmingham, um,

which is basically where Jim and I met Winwood? Oh really okay, so Jim you met just because in the BN scene he was fronting a band. And then we you know, we it finally sort of got to where you pulled. We tried to pull the best of all the local bands and find the guys and put them together. And when did Jim start playing the drums stopping in front man M Bay, I don't know, basically he I mean, he was never a drummer. He just could just do it. Okay,

So how did you meet Winwood in Birmingham? Met him at a place called the Elbow Room. And so you were just hanging out or you went to you were performing or he was performing. It was an after hour sat my private club, unvite a couple of guys that Jamaican guy in UM guy named Don Carlos. And at this point, when would it already had his hits with the Spencer David Well, dimpos was a hit when he was fifteen. So and so how did it is? How

we did you decide you could form a band? We just started kind of hanging out basically, just just hanging out, smoking a lot of hash, listening to all kinds of music and just just hanging out when we could. And I guess he got to the point where he just, um, I didn't want to be Spencer Davis group anymore. So when you would do something different. And during that time, through all that, I was um a roadie for them

for about three or four months. Okay, So when you were you know, Windwood was a star and when you got to meet him, was he just another musician or you say this guy is a star or this is a guy that can work with Well, I wasn't. I'm a star. I mean he just was. You know, he was just a an inordinate amount of of of natural talent. So Um and Jim and I we were fans, and so you know, it's just sort of But then, like

I said, we just started hanging out basically. Um, and so you were a roady for the end of the Spencer Davis group or from the beginning of I was. I was. I mean, I you know, I sang I'm singing the harmony on Somebody Help Me. Well really, um, I mean, uh, me and Jim are both on give Me Some Love and I'm a Man. Really I didn't know that. Okay. So during when you met him, before the heyday of the Spencer Davis group, Um, because you were singing on all those songs I'm a man, give

Me some Love. Those were the hits in the US, I know. He yes, I mean they had, you know, keep on running writing things for you, big hits in England, Europe. Okay, So what well you were hanging with Winwood. Have you stopped being in your own band touring around? Are you still doing that simultaneously? Um? Well, I at that point

I didn't really have it well. Played with a guy named Don Kove for a little while in London, and then when it got more to the point where the four of us were like we're gonna you know, Steve is really going to leave and we're going to form a band. So I didn't do anything for about three or four four months or more. And that's why I was playing road manager with Spencer Davis Group. Okay, were your road manager or road like a road He was kind of a road I mean, so he did a

little bit of everything. I was just there to hang out with Steve. Okay. Did it feel like a step down, as you know, doing the behind the scenes stuff instead of being on the flat? I don't care. I mean I knew we were going to form a band. So and how did everybody react when Steve said he was going to leave the Spencer Davis Group. Um, not too happy. Spencer flipped out. I mean, I I under I get it. I mean he was the Spencer Davis Group exactly. There

was nothing after that, you know. So, and that's basically how you know, kind of Traffic started? How do how? Why was it named traffic? We were trying to come up with a name, you know, and pretty much every band was the and we're trying to think of something different. We spent weeks with what about this? What about this?

What about this? And then Jim and I were at a a um a movie, an afternoon movie in Worcester, and in the cinema when you came out, the front doors had steps that went right down onto the high street, and we walked out and he just went, I got it traffic. And did you think it was a good idea? Immediately? Yeah? Immediately it was like yeah, perfect, Okay, Just so I know how far is Wooster from Birmingham. Um, it's about thirty miles okay, relatively close. Yeah. And then how did

Chris Wood get involved? Chris was a friend of Steve's and he was always going to be involved. Um, I guess, I mean they were friends. He was an art school guy. Okay, so now you formed traffic. Chris. Chris Blackwell comes into the situation. Well, he he managed Spencer Day, he had Spencer Davis group. Anyway, it's at Steve. I mean, did you feel like, well, now I've really hit the big time or well I knew that that at that point, having being involved with Steve, being involved in it, it

was certainly going to get attention. And then it was Blackwell helpful, unhelpful, good dad? Mhm um in what sense? Hey? Is he atively or just okay, he was a businessman. Doesn't he get credit for producing that first record? No, he didn't produce the first year. No, but I think he takes credit though probably Okay, took everything else pretty much. So okay, there you have it. Now when you want to go, are you signed individually? I mean Jimmy Miller

produced the first album. He brought Jimmy Miller. Chris brought Jimmy Miller over to produce Traffic, and Jimmy Miller one of the unsung heroes of rock and roll. So what was he like because he died way before his time. Jimmy was just great, just very cool personality, great producer. But with Traffic, it was, you know, we were Steve wanted to get away from the from the young Ray

Charles dubbed that he got and do something different. So and at first we were gonna we talked about a lot of covers and doing you know, Bobby Bland stuff or but when it started, that was my when I sort of went, you know what, I'm gonna need to start writing. Oh, you didn't write before then? No? Uh. The first song I ever wrote was their biggest hit, fantasy song called Hole in My shoe right, which was the beginning of the end. Why was it the beginning

of the end. It was the beginning of the end because, um because mostly because I guess, I don't know, probably a bunch of reasons. I'll never know really why. Um. But most of everything, most of the things that I wrote, we're all, we're because I was there for the first two albums. Um. But let's start with the first album. First album, you're in the band and then you're out

of the band. Well, I wrote sort of nearly half the songs, and we and we were kind of like when the first little group of people that just sort of we sequested ourselves away in that house in Berkshire which had no no electricity, no running water until we started putting it in there, um, just to see what

we could come up with. And I was trying to you know, I didn't know what I could do or couldn't do, so I wrote on my own, um, and they were pretty much naive songs because I had no I mean, street Smart was not part of my ringing, okay, but literally between the album coming out in the UK and the U s you you're no longer in the band. Um, Yeah, pretty much, um. And the thing I was that happened was that that hold of my shoe became a number two record in in England and was a hit in Europe.

And for me, it all happened so fast and suddenly you're that thing that you've been wanting. Is there press this? That it all got too much for me and I couldn't deal with it. It was basically what happened. I'm just a kid from Worcester, you know, I grew up. My upbringing was not unlike Tom Sawyer, were running around the fares, building rafts, bose narrows and okay, so you

wrote it all too much for me. So I left and you left, and you intended to do what I didn't know, but you felt you were done with this music game. No no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, not at all. I mean I never got into this be star. I got into this to make music and and make money, which came first? Make music or make money? Um? When the music always comes first? Okay, So when you leave traffic, the spotlight is upon it. Did you see it in the money from hole in my shoe? Um?

Who knows? I have no clue? Must have seen something. I mean blackbo took all the publishing on everything because I didn't know any different. Okay, so when you leave the band, what are the other three members saying? Uh m hmm, I don't know. They pretty much sort of went on as their own, the three of them. And how did you come back to the ban for the second they were they were in well whilst I was

whilst in that time that I had left. See part of it was I was so Traffic was an interesting group of well because we all have a very diversified musical tastes. I mean, we loved all kinds of music, so which I thought was its strength. And um, it didn't really matter who wrote the hit song to me because at least that got attention to the band. And there was so much other material there. Um. And so after I had to take a break from the fame. From the fame, I guess of it. But that's when

I m got to know Hendricks. Um, I like to know McCartney. I produced an album called Music the Dolls House for the whop called the Family, UM put out the first compatible stereo single. UM. And so I and I'd come back and I come back to America a few times and for what reason, Because mostly for the reason I finally came here, because this is where it all starts. This is where it all starts, This is where it all comes from. Okay, we just copied you up.

We just copied everything and sold it back to you. We were asleep at the wheel and we The other big thing is too, as I see we all in England Europe is we didn't have all that segregation going on. We didn't, you know, so we had all those great that's why that blue stuff started happened so much over there. There wasn't any radio segregation of music over there, so we heard it all. So you're saying you heard it all in the UK. So were you caught off guard

when you experienced the segregation in America? I mean, I don't know if I really if I really paid that much attention at the time and be honest with you, um, but anyway, I sort of came back and forth a few times and then and also at the time, I during that period of time too, I went to Greece for a couple of months, to the island of Hedra to work on songwriting because I thought my stuff was sort of uh the you know, hold of my Shoe

was just a little fantasy thing that was ahead. Um, but I wanted to write more mm hmm, just about just life things, real things. Tom My. Whole thing was wrong writing is to write something that's timeless. I don't want it to be trapped in a fashion or time or place. Since you had a number of hits, did you right trying to have a hit or you said they just yeah, well I have a a you know,

I have a somewhat of a pop sensibility. Okay, so how do you come back into traffic for the second I was in New York and they were at the I think they were at the record plan to New York working on the second album, and all they had were five songs. M and I was at the studio visiting, and I said, well I got five songs. Oh all right, well we want to come sure, let's recording. Well, you had except for forty thousand head Men, which is a

great track. You have the three best tracks on the album feeling all right, Well, it feel it all right, but that's a famous one. But it started the album started where you could all join in. And my favorite songs on the second side, crying to be heard. So were those songs you've written in Hedra pretty much? Okay? But you talk about A Hole in the Hole of My Shoe being your first track most people, right, you know, I read a hundred songs. The first ninety were bad.

Were you someone where every track, every song you worked on and then it became quality? Uh? Well, I you know, basically, I don't. I'm not I'm not very I'm not very prolific. If I write something, it's I mean stuff. I well if I if it doesn't feel right, I just throw it out. So I am usually just concentrate. I concentrate on what my version of quality is rather than quantity.

I guess my question would be those three tracks on the second album with those songs that you wrote right after A Hole of My Shoe or you written a lot of other ones. No, no, they weren't. That's when I mean it took me. It was just took me two years to write those eight songs on alone together. Okay, but let's go back to the second traffic and what's the story. I'm crying to be heard? I don't even remember just whatever it's saying. Okay, how I mets a

song I've never done. I've never sang that. I've never performed that song. Why. I mean, I thought it was cool, but hey, don't have that voice anymore for one thing, and um, you know I'll do all join in, um, But for me, crying to be heard was just a it was an album track. It's important to me. But at any event, what's the story? And you can all join in? Remember how that came together? Um? I think I wrote most of the lyrics for that sitting in a cafe, outdoor cafe in Athens. And you know what

inspired it? Just basically what exactly what it's saying pretty much? And what's the story of behind feeling all right? Feeling all rights? Um? Feeling all right is about not feeling too good myself. That's what feeling all right is? What was the inspiration for that girl? Of course a woman? And did it really all are okay? You have this? Did the song a lot of times? When you're in that mood, that the press mood, the creativity comes and it comes out all in one batch. Did the song

kind of right itself? Or did you work on it for a long time? I mean part of it too was I was trying to musically I was trying to write the simplest thing I possibly could come up with because I had been playing sitar for some time, which I used on the first album, and George Harrison gave me the sitar that he learned on UM to start with.

So I've been playing sitar and I've been listened to our Indian music, So having been listening to that basically around a drone UM, it was part of the for me was trying to write the simplest possible thing I could come up with, and other than one chord, two chords. Okay. Now that's all you know is literally legendary played a lot today. Does Black well in the publishing on that or do you no? I don't know in the publishing on it, but you still get the writer's share I do, okay.

And then do you know how Joe Cocker ended up covering it? Um? Not until Denny Cordell, I mean, the producer got him to cover it. I mean that's the definitive version. Okay, So you like it? Oh? Yeah, you're kidding. I wish I'd have done it like that. I mean I do on pretty much on stage, but it's you know, it's an adaptable song. You can do it in so many ways. You could do as a reggae song if you want. So how did it end with Traffic? How

did Traffic decided to break up? So after the second album came out, and of course my songs were the single picks, And then I got a call to come to a meeting at Chris Blackwell's house, and um so I go over there and Chris and Steve and Jim are they're sitting on the couch and I sit down and the psycho okay, what's going on? And Steve looked at me and says, I don't like the way you're saying. I don't way. You're right, I don't like the way you play. And you're out of the band. And that's

how it ended. And what did you say? I didn't say anything too much, got up and left. And do you see Winwood ever since then? Or he didn't see me? But you maintained a relationship with Capaldi, right, coalities passed away before that sort of sort of, But the band itself ended up imploading, sure that they didn't have your hit songs? Well possibly, okay, So track, you're done with Traffic? Where does that leave you? Around the street pretty much wondering what the hell I'm gonna do. And we tried

a couple of things. I mean, it was one point where Steve had left the band and she left the band, but the other three of you were carrying on. We could try to carry on with a guy named winder k Frog, but it was you know, you're not going to replace Winwood. So you know, after all that, I just finally went, you know what, I'm out of here. That in the cents in the dollar taxes in England, it was like, you know, fuck this ship, I'm out

of here. I'm going west. And that's when I up and left and came here to Los Angeles, came to Los Angeles. Now, especially with today's situation, we're all very familiar with immigration law. You can't stay here forever unless you get a green card or you get a special visa. How'd you end up being able to stay? I have I am a I am an alien resident. Okay, But back then, back in sixty eight or so, you applied and you got that. Yeah, okay, you citizen now are

still in it, still an alien resident. Do you vote in the UK? No? Do you care about Brexit? I don't. I hope that passes because I think it should just very simply why, Because I just don't think that wrapping yourselves around the rest of Europe is going to benefit England in any way. And do you go back at this pointing back maybe twice three times really in fifty years? Okay, so you don't sell any records there, never have. So you're in America and I have no other reason to

go back there. You're in America, and then what do you decide to do? Well? I came stayed with Graham Parsons for for a little while. How do you know Graham? I knew him through um met him through the rolling stones. We've we've gotten, We've gone through Hendricks, We've gone through Harrison. How did all this happen? Are you just the kind of guy where everybody gets along with us? You could meet every you could run into everybody, and there's only

one place. It's not like America where you had you know how many music centers l A, New York, New Orleans, Philadelphia, New York, Detroit, San Francisco. It was just London. And that's so you've runned everybody there. We've done limited number of studios, and Jimmy Miller was producing the Stones and Hendricks and the Stones and Traffic and the rest of us were all using the same studios, and wasn't unusual

for people to just drop by each other's sessions. And when you start, so I am played on Street Fighting Man? What are you playing on Street Fighting Man? Uh? Some of the drums and that weird horn at the end of it. How do you end up playing the weird horn?

Brian was a little too, he wasn't there actually, and then Hendricks and IWI um during that period of time where I left, there was a little rift going on with him and no Redding, and jim and I actually talked seriously about me taking Noh's place, but that would be playing bass, and we did some recordings me playing sitar and bass, so I have no clue where they are. And then I got to sing on Crosstand Traffic and

then played the acoustic guitar and all along the watch Tower. Ah. So, but then you come to the US, and then I finally come to the US, and I've known a band over here, which I tried to tell Chris Blackway, you should really really signed this band if you want a really great man, which was Delaneum Bunny. So I knew all those people and I played and play guitar with them for a while. Now were you you were also in the band same time Clapton was in the band. Well, mhm,

Delaneum Bonny opened the Blind Faith to her. Actually where I saw the Blind Faith tour in Chicago, taste was the opener. But we opened a lot of the dates. We were run a lot of the dates, and that's where Eric got to really grab all, you know, get to know all that. And were you cool with Eric? Yeah? I mean I was in the I mean I was in the beginning of I was in the band of Derek and the Dominoes at the very beginning. And how did it? How did that end? Um? It mostly ended

because that's when Eric got into Heroin. There's a lot of not a lot of not a lot was getting done, and I was getting frustrated and just so, okay, this is I can't deal with this. Who else was in the band at that point, well, Jim Gordon and most of the Delinean Bonny band, Bobby Gordon, Um, Karl Radl And so how do you end up writing you only you know and I know which is on the Delinean

Bonny album on tour. Well, I had written those that's part of a loan together and those those eight songs were written over a period of two years, and I wrote only you Know and I Know up at Cass Elliott's house. You ultimately did an album with Cass. How

did you meet Cass through Graham Parsons. Graham was the type of person who knew everybody himself, right, and but he at the time was on herrowin too, right, Um, I guess, I mean I was wasn't aware at the time, and Cass was done with the mamas and the papas,

and what was your relationship with her? Well, the thing was there was a couple living there at the house up in Mulholland that I were really close friends of mine from London, and I had no idea that they were there, and so it was like, oh my god, people, I actually know. This is great. So that was the reason that I started going there a lot, spending a lot of time there and right, and so how you

wrote only you Know and I knew there. I started writing it there and that and um, I think and I was pretty much at the time, I was kind of living at the Chateau Marma. She's where I wrote I can't start worrying and finished only you know and I know. Um, I think at one point Jim come

over or something somewhere. We got together and and he had I had some music and a rhythm of something that I was doing, and he had these lyrics, and I read the lyrics and they went, oh, m okay, they'll fit with it, and that became look at you, look at me, okay. And then at the point, if you're living in the Chateau Bauman, you must have had some money from somewhere. Um, whether you know, there was royalties, and there was stuff that I and I played show

you know, dates with them with Lillanium Bonny um. And then I was also pretty much working on that record deal with Blue Thumb. So how did that come together? Well, when did you decide you wanted to do a solo album? Well, I figured I was. I mean, that was the whole object of it. I mean, there was I came here, not nobody really, I mean that sort of when I came here is pretty much when the traffic albums started to come out over here. So nobody had a clue

who I was. Yeah, um, except I had those eight songs. So how did it come together with Blue Thumb? Well, like I said, that was through Group three because they managed Llanium Bonny and that's how I got to that, and that led to Blue Thumb. And did you think that going to Blue Thumb was good? Or would you

have rather rather been at Warrener Brothers Columbia. Um at the time, Um, I still like the idea of independent labels because without a lot of artists on them, right, But I figured I'd get a little more attention and being on someplace where there's a huge run. To what degree did they give you attention in the studio? Well? They, I mean Tommy La Puma was basically who was a producer, producer,

just a real great guy. Um. And Tommy knew all those musicians that I finally finished at working with them there. So did you have any idea that every did you think everything was turning out? Well? All I knew was was making a record. Okay, Well, the record came out from the consumer side. It certainly have the multicolored plastic, It had this three piano uh cover you could hang up as a poster, and it was one of the few albums of all time you could literally play from

beginning then there's not one cluck around the whole. The great thing about it was when when when there really was radio, which sadly is when the biggest reasons don't put anything new at it anymore is nobody on. But then you had DJs and people who were turning onto the music. And the thing about one thing about that album is it was very hard to see where the groves where the church started in. Just put it on and play the whole Sam a side so um yeah.

But then you got into a fight with Blue Thumb right you didn't want came a hit. And because of my experience with Blackwell and promises, certain things that he made that he were nagged on. Is I just I said, okay, great, and I want to you need to if you want to do another one, you need to renegotiate the album need my dear, And they wouldn't do it. And so I was working on that second album. So it was Headkeeper,

the second album, Hey Keep. It was the second album which is supposed to be a double album and R and they just um, I kept reneging on it. And I just said, I took the tapes and hit all the tapes and put them somewhere all the masters. Okay, So they went ahead and just put out an album off the rough two tracks stuff that was left there. And that's when I went in the press and I said, don't buy the damn album. So this was before you made your deal with Columbia. Yeah, okay, So where did

that leave you emotionally? When they put out all the rough mixes? I was passed? And did you ever make peace with them? With kras Now? No? Did you ever get paid on that? Right? Those records? Who knows? He's probably shuffled so many out of the back door. Who knows what he did? I think they all everybody got screwed, right, I'm got screwed. Tommy got screwed. And so how did you end up making a deal with Columbia? That's a

good question. UM, trying to think of a series of events after after Um, I think it was after that there was a fellow named Don Graham Don Sherman to manage me for a little while. UM, I'm trying to remember if it was him that that's how we got to the Columbia deal. Okay, was were they? I mean there was after the success of Alone Together, there was gonna be somebody that was gonna stap of course, so

they were looking for you. Would you say, I would imagine that, you know, I could have probably gone to them or warners, or I probably could have gone to all of them. So how was your experience being on Columbia? Columbia is a very very experience, okayy um. I mean, you know, I've always had freedom to do whatever I

want in the studio because I really don't. I tried once to do something it was like that was stupid, so um, and then there was a whole live side of things trying to you know, become a I mean for me, I had to hit I added Alone Together hit record, but I really wasn't. I really wasn't prepared to be a solo artist. So I mean we did Colombia and we had um um, I forget what I forget what to order? The first album was was It's Like You Never Left? Was Was that the first one?

I don't think it's gone for a while or something or us to Dave Mason album. I think I think Dave Mason was first, but I would have to look it up myself. Yeah, and then you know, like the problem with those the problem with the labels, which looking back, I wish they were still well, I wish a number of things were still around for artists, but they aren't. Um um, I mean things you know, you were, you had.

I mean, the thing was back then, when I was, back in the days when we first started, somebody made a decision and the whole and that moved the whole company. And then as things progressed and we got into the bullshit of consensus, you know, well everybody's got opinion. Yeah, okay, that's gonna knows too, but unlet's just somebody there. So when you had somebody behind you that has some power at the company, you know, you can pretty much get

something done. And then eventually it just you know, all sort of and then every because then somebody would be there from a little while and then they were gone. I mean, there was a great article back in the seventies, early seventies on the front of the Wall Street Journal. You always put that little little column there now to the bottom. Used to be on the side, and they used to be right there in the center of the page. Oh yeah, yeah, with all the news, and it was

always something a little different. And they did a thing on the record business and they said, of all the records put out by every label that exists in the US, two make money. So you know, there's a lot of cases where I mean, you got bands that did stuff and made great albums, and the people that were there to help and do it so only weren't there anymore. So a lot of stuff was sholled. Um. Yeah, I was scarious. The labels were the labels were an expensive

way to borrow money and try getting it back. Okay, so how does we just disagree happening? How does that become ahead? Um? Well, how does it become a hit? Um? Then? And I did the I think at that point I had I'm trying to think it's the I I get because I don't specifically remember the times but the specific order of things. But I think there was a period where and now part of all some things I had, some number of things happened. I and I went through

bankruptcy while you were signed to Columbia. I went through a bankruptcy, and um, it was a legitimate bankruptcy. The thing about a bankruptcy is is that the minute you declared bankrupt, you're free and clear to do whatever you want to go and do, unless as fraud involved, and then you're screwed. But the part part about it is within the recording agreements of the time, there was no provision for that. And I really wanted to go with Ahmed,

and I was broke at the time. An Armored loaned me fifty dollars personally and took me on the corporate jet for ten days to Europe to a number of rolling Stones consins, and then we got back and he said, there's no precedent for this. We don't know what to do. I said, but if you can sign me it's legal, it's fine, it said corporate attorneys. They don't know what

to do, he said. I just at the time, Clive was at Columbia, and Clive had made an offer to go back to Columbia, and Army said, just just go take the offer. So so I went back to Columbia. And that's when I had did um the letter Flow album, which was again put out. It was put out colored album, Blue and uh and had we just disagree on it.

And at the time I had a great band, Mike Finnegan, Jim Kreeger, Gerald Johnson, and it was a song Jim Kreeger had written and he brought it to me one day said I got this and he said this, think it's perfect for you. You know. It was like it was just a great song. And so that's why I credit. And then the guys, the the guys out on the street were important, really important, the labels, the work, the radio promotion, promotion guys, Mike Gustler one of them, UM,

a couple of other guys. They really helped make that a hit. And Steve Popovitch was another great guy. UM and Clive actually, I mean I always thought Clive is a great record guy. It's a great ear for stuff you're not you know. That whole to me, all that whole asking him for over some bar mits for party

whatever it was, it was a lot of bullshit. I think he's just getting I think that you had a problem when you got too powerful, except of those places, especially powerful or you do it couldn't make anything happen. He was screwed. So and then I tried a couple more things and with them and um Mariposta album, which

to me was a really good album. Um, I didn't sell I mean, it went gold, but and then it just sort of fell apart after that, and then Joe Wizard did the last album I did, and Columbia did nothing to push it was one of the reasons why Joe Wizard left Columbia. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the story basically. Okay, So now you're done with columb down with Colombia, do you what do you think where you think you're at at that point? We hit the eighties doing what I've

always done, playing playing live. So at this point in time, how much do you work? How many days a year? I mean I've never stopped basically and then never stopped really working. I mean the last couple of years is that this year is probably the least I've worked. I mean last year I took four months off first. I haven't gotten out on So where can you play? Pretty much anywhere in the world US, just the US, US, some Canada, Okay, And you see a new audiencewer is

the same die hard Dave Mason. It's the saying, well, it's just people who grow up with me. Basically, you know, my my audience is basically fourdies to seventies. And do you still occasionally I get you know, there's a young kids come and usually they're like, Wow, it's all new to them, but nobody's playing it to them. There's no nobody. I mean, radio is just I mean, everybody talks about the Internet and the power of the Internet. Terrestrial radio

is probably more powerful than the Internet. It's still a very powerful media. So there's nobody there, so you don't put It's why we don't put music out anymore. And we're getting screwed worse by the Internet companies than we were by the labels. Five thousand plays on on Pandora. It's about saying your checks the same as the price of a T shirt. I mean, half of our revenue stream is gone, so or you're left with it's playing live.

I mean, that's why I still play. I played for a couple of reasons, probably the same reason I gave at the very beginning of the interview. I love I love playing, and I'm really good at disappointed at being Dave Mason. And it's the only revenue stream that I am. So you're gonna die on stage or at some point you're gonna miss the last show. And on that note, Dave, thanks so much for doing the podcast I don't like we can top. Thank you until next time. This is Bob left Sex