Chuck Morris

with general topics. Live shows, when are they coming back? Um, Hey, you know as well as I, we need a vaccine. You know, we we figured out our beautiful new uh Mission ballroom which seats walt all standing thirty fifty. If we're socially distant, we may be able to sell seven under tickets and the band can't make a penny. We're not in business. It's gonna need a vaccine. If I had a guess, and it's strictly a guess, my guest is a vaccine will go We'll start being given out.

And this is such a guess. You never know. I think by next April to June of next year will begin to have shows. That's my guests. Okay, just a couple of questions. If we don't have a vaccine, no shows. I don't see how big acts, even midsize acts can play in our kind of halls. I mean, you know, we have the Bluebird five hundred, the Odds in seventeen hundred,

the Gothic a thousand. We have big shows at the stadiums of PEPSI, we have the our mission ballroom is thirty d We have the first bank, which is you can't put enough people in for the band to make a penny. I think the tiny acts will play the tiny rooms for fifty people and probably be happy. I mean, if I was a baby act and who just wanted to play, it's in my advantage to do that. But the big acts, I don't see how they can do it. I just don't see it. I mean, do you, Uh No,

I don't either. But going back before March, before the shutdown, how would you compare the business as opposed to the seventies when you really got ranking and going. Our business today up till this tragedy has been mind blowing. When I first started, my first club was Tlagi's Nightclub and Boulder UM. I never dreamed that I would outlive all my rich friends who are working for record companies and morning guys in radio and entertainment editors of newspapers, and

we outlived them all. You know, the Internet, all the other stuff that's going on. Uh, you can replace anything except live music. And I was always you know, I owned clubs for first eight years, and then I started working with Faye as his number two guy, and built my own cup and you with Greg Pearl of b g P Chuck Morris and went on blah blah blah, the Sects, the clear Channel to live Nation, and then

I joined my old friend Phil and Sews. I never dreamed that live entertainment would get so big and a big chunk of the rest of the business would be replaced by other things and making it less well, make making it less important. I mean I was always uh jealous of my friend, not jealous. I never cared about money anyway. But you know, my rich friends worked for record companies. They were morning guys, they were newspaper editors of music editors. They were writing for Rolling Stone and

making good money on articles. They were doing all this stuff. While the libins we we did well, don't get me wrong, but I never dreamed it would be do this well, I mean our office and God bless my great partners. One of them happens to like you, which I worry about Don Strassburg and Brent for Trees, who will be taking over my position as the number one person. I've been with them twenty seven years. Um, I have a dream to it get this big. You know it used

to be in the old days. I think you'll agree with this. People would go on the road to sell albums because that's where they made all their money. Today, you make an album as a pr thing so you can sell more tickets on the road. That's where they make all their money. Okay, so I agree with you totally. In terms of being the promoter. How has it changed

in terms of deals from then to today? The bands? Uh? Well, first of all, I hate old promoters that liked the old days and either leave the business or complain about it. To me, it's a much better business. I don't mind the fact that there's more lawyers and accountants and people that protect the bands, the customers, even the promoters and everybody. I'm not one of those old guys that said, oh I wish there's the old way where we could you know, write and an offer on a piece of paper and

bullshit away with expenses. You know, every agency has their own marketing people, their own accountants, their own everything. Tour managers are as sharpest that can get. And I think it's a better business for that. And I've learned how to change. That's why I've survived this long up until now.

And now I'm I'm doing something that I've wanted for most of my life, which is as I as I ended my career, uh started department at a major university in Colorado and teach music business, which has been my love my whole life. Well, we'll certainly get deeper into that, but going with this statement just made how have you

changed over the years in terms of business. Um, I've learned how to deal with lawyers, and I've learned how to deal with accountants, and I've learned how to have people now, you know, make deals and go through them and number by number. I've learned that you have to be straight in today's world. I mean in the old days, let's be real, in the seventies, even into the eighties, we were all partying, we were all having it was a great business. I had more fun than you can believe,

but I mean I got sober. I've been sober ever since because my body was breaking down and I couldn't stay until four o'clock in the morning and get up and go to work, and it was breaking down, and I had I realized that business is getting so big and how you had to be straight to deal with what was going on was how it was changing, and I think all for the better, I really really do. Okay, So, uh, let's talk about an act that can sell arenas or larger.

Traditionally they're taking about nine So if you're lucky, if you're okay. So where does the promoter make their money today? Promoter makes his money if he owns a building. You make it on food and beverage, an alcohol, and some on ticketing if you have your own ticketing company, or you make a deal with the ticketing company on on corporate sponsorship. As far as the door is concerned, the bands make some points percent percent of the growth of the door. You have to make it an answering income

or you're not in business anymore. In the old days, I remember the first deals I made. One of the first acts, Big Acts, one of the first acts that played for me was the Doobie Brothers in seventy one on my first club nineteen seventy actually listen to the music, was just breaking their first fifth single. I gave them twenty dollars versus fifty percent of the door for five nights. We didn't show any expenses because it didn't matter. They got half the door, so I could spend all I

wanted or nothing. And we always sold great tickets in Bold of Colorado. My club's always just so well. So they didn't care, and so there was never any settlements. They made half the door. Yeah, they count of the tickets, took half the money and left and everybody was happy. It was just a different ballgame. The bands, the promoters made a chunk of the door in the old days. Today's days have changed now. Don't know if you get Irving was the first that I love. Irving one of

my oldest dearest friends. I did this second Eagles Day when they played for me in my club too, Lodgy's, in November of n rehearsing. They played a week in Aspen and a week for me in Boulder to rehearse to make their first album, and Irving had just joined Elliot Robinson, David Geffen, I don't even know if he was doing the day to day for the Eagles. And they called and they said they wanted two weeks to rehearse, so they were gonna go in in January to make

their first album. And their producer, guy named Glenn John's, was flying in from England and wanted to take notes. And it was it was the last week in November after Thanksgiving, college town college kids with three too bar so you could be eighteen. And I said, no one's gonna come. There's finals and then they leave, and I think I was talking to may rest in peace. It was Elliot Robins or David Geffen, I can't remember. I said nobody's gonna be there, and said, we don't care.

We're gonna work a week and ask them that little club up there which is still around a different name, the Goldberghnes and My Club, and it was the four original guys um and we did about twelve people a night and they were amazing. But I I watched history because I saw Glenn John's taking notes. But they were playing all the songs from their first album. They had never done any live days before that. I was they had they who put together by those guys. Uh, let's

just stop there. Uh So if they played for five nights, business did not increase over those five nights. Uh it was a blizzard most of the time and finals were over. No, they didn't, but they didn't care. They wanted to rehearse the songs and they were playing peaceful, easy feeling and take it Easy and all those great songs they recorded a month and a half later in London with Glenn John's Wow. So I watched history that week. Okay, let's talk about dates that you buy where you're losing money.

What happens then, both in the past and in today. Um. Most promoters today have given up asking for money back. In fact, I really never did a because I was always embarrassed to do it. Even though I was a club owner, I was self made, I didn't I wasn't Baptist before I joined fe Line and Barry UM. But I always felt, you know, you win some, you lose some, and we got killed on some dates and it was not much she could do. I will tell you the greatest story ever. Though I had a great comic named

Dick Gregory at Ebbottsfield, my second club. I named it because I grew up in Brooklyn, ten blocks from the baseball park of the Brooklyn Just I was a big brookn Dodging fan at nine years old, and I had Dick Gregory as a stand up. He had already started moving away from being a stand up. It was probably nineteen seventy seventy one, maybe two at Ebbittsfield and tore about eighty people, and I gave him twenty dollars, which

was a lot in those days. And this happened to be the only time in my career he and he didn't have a road manager. In those days aren't usually turned on their own. And he walked in, the nicest guy, just and he was already writing books on losing weight and liquid diets and was moving away from being a stand up, so he wasn't seting tickets much as a stand up anymore. And he looked at me and said, he got killed to night, didn't you. I said, yeah,

I got killed. He said, I'm gonna tell you something. You pay me whatever you think is fair. And I wrote out a chapter half the money never happened since only time in my career that an artist ever did that. That was Dick Gregory. I will never forget that as long as I live. It was the sweetest, kindest, wonderful thing. And I needed the money because we were getting murdered and that never happened again. Okay, so when we you know what the conventional wisdom today is no one gives

money back to Live Nation because it's a public company. Uh. Were you the outlier or were really other? You know? The tradition was I give money back to the promoter to keep him in business, so the next time around he has money to pay me. Was it that you were so good and your economics were good, or was it there were other people getting money back? What do you think that I shouldn't say not getting back to just that there have been some and there still are

some if you get killed. There's some artists that are pretty a few that are very nice about it. Um. But to be honest, most of the time they blame the promoter or the club owner that we didn't know how to sell tickets. When it's sold out, it's because the act is hot. And when it doesn't it doesn't sell tickets is because we do a lousy job. And that's not everybody. God bless them. There's some of the greatest artists in the world that I consider some of

my best friends. You know, I managed the Dirt Band for years. They always gave money back if they if they heard a promoter. But of course they wanted to come back, and some of them were country festivals that they wanted to come back and play too. I mean, there was some some reason for it, but they were really nice guys who didn't like to see people get burned. So there are people like that, but it's not not

a general thing that happens. You know, a band comes out today with you know, even midsize acts with you know, four semis and a fourteen man crew, and they have a lot of expenses. I sound like a band manage now, which I've been my whole career, as well as promoter. But you know, it's hard for them to give back some money. Okay, let's say you're the promoter and you lost money and the band wants to come back. What do you say, Um, have I asked them for money

back when I got killed the first time? No? No, No, let's just say you did the date you lost a real sum of money as opposed to ten dollars. Suddenly it's six months a year later, they want to come back on the road. They ask you for an offer. What do you say? You say, you give him a lobo offer. You give them what they want. You say, I'm not gonna play you at all. All of the above, none of the above. I've lost money on bands knowing

I would. When I heard a first album from an act that I thought was phenomenal and I knew that hadn't the record hadn't really started taking off. I would lose money out of band, a few bucks because I believe in the band. People forget what Bruce Springsteen what was his third album? Fourth album before he happened? Ari Ari Speedwagon had like three or four before you know did? They're big hit A million acts were like that, and I would. I would lose money a few bucks on

bands if I believe it'd be a future. Okay. But in the old days, prior to the roll up of the bands were loyal. They're not really loyal anymore, are they. Some are, some aren't. It's definitely there's a lot less. There's less loyalty these days, and there used to be. Um we have we have people that have played for us their whole careers. God bless them. And we have bands that do tours with other unnamed um major promoting companies that have that have given us an exception on

their contracts. And we've done the dates in Denver thanks to myself, thanks to Don and Brent, who are the greatest partners in the world, who have their own relationships plus mine. They have great ones where a band sometimes will say, I'll do a tour for a Bold Bucks, but we we've always worked for the gang in Denver. We want to play for them. And once in a while a band will you know, or a promoter will allow that band to make an exception. Sometimes they won't

and they played for somebody else. It does happen. It hurts, but it does happen. Okay, So why is Denver such a spectacular live music market we have. That's a good question. There have been some great people. I guess I'm one of them. My two key guys have been one of them. We have the greatest first of all, we have the greatest amphonthater in the world, Rent Rocks, which has been around forever. We also have a great audience that we've

all helped develop we have some great institutions there. I'm not the only one that has been a pretty good promoter, bringing in great acts with great buildings. And we have a town, an unbelievable public pbst you know about Nick and and Ea town there on what three hundred radio stations around the country from Boulder, Colorado, which is promoted some great music from Colorado. We have tell you Ride Bluegrass when the greatest festivals in the world Colorado Festival.

You know, thanks to those guys. It's it's a it's a wonderful place. We've developed a great market for shows, for buildings, for special events, and we've had a lot of good people. I've by this. I'll talk to Don and he'll tell me the kind of business he's doing with acts that can't tell anywhere near that number in another market. I'll tell you a funny story when I

decided to go back and promote. When Barry Faye decided to retire, and I was just managing bands and working in as a consultant at FE Line, and when Barry decided to retire, I was always a number to promoter for years behind Barry. I decided to come back and I made a deal with my great friend Greg pearl Off, and we started Chuck Marris Bill Graham Presents and built the film more because they had the brand name. I always wanted to build a great rock club because I

had built my own before that. And uh, Greg and Sherry, who you know, I'm sure very very well. Greg would call me and say, there's a mistake here. I said, what are you talking about? Pro Off? He said, he got tickets from Michael front day. You're full of it. He does great in San Francisco, and he and and maybe maybe a few other places and Michael. I love Michael, and he sells a lot of tickets now. But there were acts like that that Greig thought I was lying

with my ticket counts. But we have an interesting market. First of all, we've had KBCO Radio for forty years that has played not as much alternative music as they do as they used to, but always took chances on records and bands. We just have a great, great market that we've all worked hard at and developed. You know, Austin gets a lot of press, and I love Austin. I managed a great band years ago called the Ugly Americans of Bob Schneider loved off still love lost the music.

They get a lot of pressed, but I tell the Colorado music scene is really amazing. I don't think we've gotten as much national and international presses. We probably should have because we've we've developed we meaning all of us. I'm only one of them, and I've been blessed that I have two guys that are taken over. They're probably better than me. You know, We've just wet some great promoters in great club owners, great buildings, great radio stations,

great special events. It's just been a wonderful place to develop music. And I've been blessed that I was part of it right from the beginning. So let's assume, you know, if they're playing the Pepsi Center, which is a small arena, they're playing red rock. The acts are dictating the terms. But if they're playing the Mission ball over, they're playing smaller. Can the promoter make a greater percentage of the revenue. That's why it's not true. They explain it to me.

They get almost as much money as they can. That's the job of the Asians, and they take almost everything from the door and hope you can make it on the other end. That's just the way our our business has gotten and that's and that's not the worst thing in the world. We still do okay, okay, okay, but I put five kids through college, so I did. Okay. Okay. Now we all know on the inside, the ticketmaster is

a front for the acts. Really, the acts are taking all the ticket revenue, so the money for profit for the promoter. Okay, give me your take on it. Ticket Master takes money of the money. Yeah, they have to make a profit. What I'm saying is, let me put it in in a different way. The fees were a way to keep a certain amount of money out of the gross that the acts wanted to commission. Correct yes and no. Yes,

it's true. But the only way promoters could survive was as things got moving along from the seventies and the eighties and into the nineties, the bands were taking more and more and more of the money, and promoters, if they wanted to survive, how to figure out other ways to make money. Some of it was ticketing, some of it was sponsorship, some of it, some of it was advertising, some in the in the in the arenas. Some it

was all sorts of stuff. Answering income is the only way promoters have been able to survive, and that's where you make your money. In the old days, I made money at the door. We okay, but let's let's talk about club dates. You know, when you have a hundred dollar plus ticketed a large venue, the uh the fee is less of a percentage of the overall cost. But I get email all the time people say, well, you know the ticket was twenty five dollars and the fees

were twenty dollars. What do you say to that? First of all, I've never seen that higher higher amount. Well, I certainly have, but maybe not in your more money for not our market. You're telling me a twenty ticket against a twenty dollar fee. Yes, just just just for the ticketing. Now, there's also some buildings that are owned by somebody else will have a building fee to pay back to build a building. That might be an addit add on, okay, well, ultimately in fees. Let me put

it in a different way. How come we can't go into an overall one price because expenses have gone up for everybody, and everybody is in some ways greedy to be able to survive, to make as much money as possible, and that's why they have managers and agents and lawyers and accountants. Okay, let's just let's just assume the fee is fifteen dollars if you own the building and you are the promoter, or what percentage of the fee will

you get back? It all varies. It all varies on the city, on the deal you make with a ticketing company, on which ticketing company. Um. It all depends. And there's promoters that don't don't charge, don't take a lot of it. There's some promoters that keep there, and there's some bands that keep their ticketing down. You know, God bless Dave Matthews. He's up there, but he still keeps a reasonable ticket and you know, we've been working with him from the

very very very beginning. And uh, speaking of the beginning, let's go back to you. You're from Brooklyn. What kind of circumstances did you grow up in. My father was a public school teacher. I grew up in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, or rather a lower middle class area. I was a Brooklyn Dodger fan. Um, I love the Dodgers. Grew up about fourteen blocks from Evants Field. My second club by named David's Field, which, by the way, I couldn't do today.

I'd be sued by the Los Angeles Dodgers and it was Billboard Club of the Year, and I used the same logo in nineteen seventy two. I would have been enjoyed from doing that. But knowing cared in those days. Okay, let's stuh okay, how many kids in the family? Have five kids? I was actually, believe it or not a very good student. But where were you in the hierarchy of the five kids? Uh? No, no, I have five kids?

No no, no, no no. Then the media asked question, in the family that you grew up in, how many kids were there too? Just my brother and I. He's a dentist. And who was the oldest? He was four years four years older. Usually the oldest. All the hopes and dreams are in the oldest, and they sort of coddle the younger. What was it like in your family? Well,

I was a really excellent student. I graduated from Forests High School when I was sixteen because they had something, you know, called the sp where you can skip the eighth grade and do seven, eight and nine and two years. And I started kindergarten when I was four because I passed some i Q tests and started so I graduated high school at sixteen, went to Queen's College. Actually, Paul Simon an Arty garfen Call went to Horses I school in Queen's College with me, although they were four years

ahead of me any time, and graduated with me. And I was real good friends with in high school and college. But anyway, came out to Boulder, and I don't even know what Colorado was because we didn't have any money, but they gave me a scholarship to go for a PhD and political science. I love government. That's probably what I've done fifty benefits for a whole bunch of politicians, especially my boy John Hickenlooper will be arranging a new

one for a Senate campaign. But I go back with Gary Hart and Pat Schroeder and all the liberal Democratic politicians that I've done. I love politics. Was on my way to a doctor at twenty two and a half, but I I spent my youth buying albums and going to concerts. My father is a school teacher. During the summer, he would be a camp counselor at Lake Should talk with New York, which is the greatest place. It's a summer resort and they have an Amphitheater there and they

have music and symphony and all sorts of stuff. I went there. We sigment with my dad's as as a camp counselor, and I started. I saw the Kingston Trio when I was eleven years old, and I saw God. I went to see again. I stuck in the front row, sat on the floor, and I fell in love with folk music. Absolutely fell in love with folk music. I bought every album of all the old folk eas In fact, can you see that? Yes I can, It says born to Folk. I finally my kid, who has tattoos, convinced me.

I said, I always wanted this, but I never had the nerve out of way till my Jewish mother died. But I finally got that. But I fell in love with folk music. I saw the Kingston Trio, brought up Tenor Martin for string guitar like Nick Reynolds of the band, played in a couple of folk bands. Was not very good, but I lived for music. I also, when we got my father became an assistant principal. We made a few

extra books. So we moved to the poorer part of our hills and I went to the far Stills west Side Terence Club where they had shows even in those days, and saw Bob Dylan and a whole bunch of other acts, and just lived for music Board every album when it came out, just but I didn't know how to get into music becauseiness, I didn't know anybody. I knew Eddie

Simon and the Simon family, but that was it. And after two years of doing well in graduate school at a very young age, so wait, wait, after those two years, what year are we in chronologically? Nineteen sixty? He was so two years of graduate school, I was gonna quit graduate school and try to make it in the entertainment business because that's what I really loved. And my parents almost they disowned me. They thought I was having a

nervous breakdown. My father was a brilliant guy, a school teacher, you know, five et, a captain and Greek and Latin, but it was a school teacher and they didn't understand I quit graduate school. I was a great student and I wanted to be in music, which my parents did not understand. And just just before we go, you were studying what instant at university policide constantly, I was getting a doctorate in constitutional You are and I was a twenty year old t a at c U. Okay, I'm

about twelve years old. Okay, And what was the dream once you did get the pH d. I didn't have a dream. I like politics, and I guess I didn't have end up either being a lobbyist like my daughter has become, or teach teacher. Okay, SI in college. Okay, so you say I'm leaving to I'm leaving school. I want to be in the entertainment business. And what is the next move? The next move is I got friendly

with a guy named Herbie Cavar. Herbie Cavar owned the most popular bar on the hill in Bold called the Sink. The Sink was deep place to get a beer and listen to a jukebox and have fun. It's still around. It's been around and Bolded for forty years anyway, fifty years maybe more. And one day I told him I dropped out and I wanted to do something with people.

I used to have a beer with him every night when I left New Orleans Library after I studied, and I told him I had quit and I wanted to do something with people, maybe music, although they didn't have live music at the time of the sink, and he said, you know, my manager of the sink just quit. People love you. You're really smart. Why don't you manage to sink? Which was the number one three too bar in the state.

It took a half hour to get in there on a Friday afternoon and there was no cover charge, just to show an I d that's how busy it was, and I decided to take to try it. In fact, I said I never took a business class. I didn't know anything about He said, no, you'd be great. I started managing the sink in night and started booking local bands in the back room. Some of them became famous. One of them was this wonderful kid guitar player named Tommy Bolan, who was one of the greatest that ever lived.

Ran away from Sioux City, Iowa, started playing little clubs and Boulder became best friends with him. He played the upstairs of the sink for me. Another one with a bunch of dropouts from SEU named Flash Cadillac and the Continental Kids, who they played in the back room for me for a keg of beer. Second show they ever did. They ended up being a regular on Happy Days and

then with the movie American Graffiti. They're still touring, by the way since then, and I started booking local bands, some of them became well known in the In the upstairs of the sink, I also did something I knew I was a good promoter when I did something really nuts. The Sink jut box was the only music at that point before I started booking, putting local bands in the back room for free, and it was a successful jukebox.

And I came up with this crazy idea that I was gonna make forty five's out of album cuts in that jute box. Companies didn't give to the ju box. To the juke boxes, there was always the top forty hits. So I did a forty five of like the long range of hit. I did it stuff from you know, movies that people love, but they never were singles. And it became the biggest two box in history of the state if people would go in there to play those songs that they couldn't get in any other juke box anywhere.

And I did stuff like that, and I knew I had a natural inclintion to promote music. And after about two and a half years, I convinced herby that we ought to take a bankrupt club called to Logs, which was up the street right next to Don's Fox. By the way, it's still there, although it's now a lot of other stores. The signs still up because it's histark and just stopping for one second when you started to manage the sink, that is, when you dropped out of

school or were still going to school. But I know I dropped out of school. Okay, so you you you find, you find two loggies. I convinced herby because I still have no money. Because I, to be honest, I party too much. I love cars, women and having fun. I did very well. But those were the seventies and sixties, like sixties and Boulder, Colorado, for God's sakes, I mean you know. Um. In fact, I'll tell you quick story. Tommy Bowling became one of my best friends, became one

of the greatest guitarist. Was in Deep Purple. James Gang um odd and died too young. I had which comedian that I had, Oh god, what's his name? He died a while ago. But I walked. I walked in and Tommy wanted to meet him, and we walked into the dressing When I was doing the show, and um, he looked at me and and said, I got a feeling I really want to get some pot. And I got the feeling that the guy with hair down his back, with pink hair in bold of Colorado knows how me

to get score some pot. Which he was right. Of course, Tommy, you know how to get pot. But it was Bob what's his name? Great comedian, but it was a funny line. That's another story. So so I I convinced her me to put the money up. I owned a small piece. I did the whole thing book Did you do? You do you remember how much money he had to put up? It wasn't that much. It was a rental deal. We never owned the building. We remodeled it. We opened up with the hottest band ever in Colorado that never made

it nationally, Tommy Boland's band, Zephyr. And in a period of three years in blues, I had John Lee Hook of Money Waters, Lightning Hopkins, Man Slips, Big Mama, Thornton, Uh, Johnny Ootis, Shug be Yotis everybody um In In Folk, I had the Dirt band who later moved there, Leo Cocky, who I managed for years. Um Tom rushed, Tim Harden, Tom Tom Paxton, everybody in rock. I had body races. First tour. I had the first tour of zz Top, which was amazing. I mean, all those bands played for me.

It became one of the most successful clubs in America. Okay, what was the capacity of Too Loggy's five hundred? And if you once you were going, if you didn't have the deep pocket of the guy who owned the sink, could you have made it? I couldn't have opened the club and I couldn't have whatce it was open? Was it always in the black or was it up always in the black? Did very well, but I only had a small piece and I did everything. He never came in. I mean, he gave me my break. I'll never say

a bad thing. He's still alive in his nineties and gave me the biggest break of my career to manage to think and then putting up the money for a club that became my really entree into making it as a as a promoter. But he was wonderful, But but I felt like, um, I wanted to have more say, and I wanted to do bigger concerts. And every time I book a band, I book the first tour of Dan Hickson, Hot Licks who were huge, and Boulder, I mean really obscure bands that were doing just great there.

Uh cold Blood remember them, she was killer there. I had all those bands anyway. Um, when the band's got bigger, they played for Faye because he was the big promoter Faye Line and I wanted to do bigger shows. J J. Cale was huge and Boulder was the first guy to bring a man not you ever met him or see him play. He's the greatest. He was the greatest anyway. But when they when they got bigger, they played for Fae because he was a big promoter. And I said, if I wanted to get big, I might have to

go into business with him. I never met him. We fought over the phone and he always won. I tried to do a bigger concerts and he got them, and I realized then, at least in those days, that's the way the business was, at least for me. There are some people that have stayed independent. God bless him. Our boys in Washington, he see him been like that, and

I have a total respect for them. But for me, if I wanted to be bigger, I'd have to probably have to get into business with Barry, who I never met, and he was three hunder than five pounds, and we screamed on the phone for about two years and he always won. So one day I decided I was going to take it, take a chance, and you're still running two loggies as a kind of partner doing all the work herby okay. So two and a half years later I called Barry. I I thought he would hang up

on me because we fought on the phone. He would ask the phone, what the fund do you want? That's how Barry said a low if you knew anything about I love Barry, but he was a lot different than most people I've ever known in my life. I loved him and a lot of ways, best man and two of my weddings, but we were different a lot of ways. So I called him and he said, what the fund do you want? I said, you know, I'm this young

kid that built this big club. I'm finding acts. Linda Ronstad did a first tour there that he left the Stone Ponies. I had all these parents, I said, and then when they get big, they played for you at fey Line. I want to maybe build a club with you as a partner. Equal partner in Denver. There was no rock club then, and then I want to go on and do bigger shows with you, and he said, what are you doing tomorrow night? I still remember the show. I had stone ground to remember that band. Of course,

I'm Warner Brothers from San Francisco. Who's the lead singer? The same guy for the bull Rumbles? Who? Who? God? If you had an ass not Sal Valentino, Yes, yes, oh I love you, You're great. This is the great And the opening act was Man Slipscomb, the old Delta blues musician who was about eighty five years old. In those days, you can put anybody on the on on shows. So I put together the stupidest shows and the bolder.

It always worked. I wanted to show with who is the hippie band from from from San Francisco one of the first ones, and I put my dear friend Mimi Farina in the open. She was opening for the Sons of Champlin, Bill Champlin's first Yeah Nea was his R and B hippie band. And I loved Mimi. She had played John Pey as his kid sister. Well, I loved love to death. I put her on there. It would work. Nowhere else in the world except Balda, Colorado, and people

loved it. Anyway, you could put any acts you want. In those days, you didn't have agents. Manager saying we're putting one of the bands that we worked with on the shows and anyway. So Barry said, I'll come up and talk to you, and I had some ground and man slips. He walked in my office and said, you're the best club kid I've ever seen. Go find a club. I'll put up all the money, will be partners, and if it works out well, we'll start doing concerts together.

And that's all I wanted to hear. I left too Loggy's about six four weeks later, started looking for clubs and found an old mr room called Marvelous Marks. Who whoa, whoa, whoa? What did the owner of the sinks say when you said you were moving on? He was devastated, but we had our differences. He was God bless Herbie. I love him. He gave me such a break, but he still didn't understand the culture of our business. He'd freaked out if he walked in and a musician with smoking cotton addressing

room freak out right in front of me. I'll never forget the biggest thing. I've game best friends with the dirt band who moved to Colorado. I later managed them and still my best friends for twenty five years. And they were rehearsing at Too Loggy's before they started a tour because I lived in Colorado, leaving Denver Boulder and Annassment, and they rehearsed for four days during the day and Herby came in. I was this is the first band I became best friends with. And he came in and

we had pillows on the floor. People would sit on pillows, hundreds of people and then seats around the outside. And he started screaming at because the pillows were dirty and show that night and I said to myself, I can't do this anymore. And that's what I called faye. Okay, So you start looking for a club, what do you find.

I find a place called Marvelous Marvs that was an M O R room that would have like pop AX, m r X, Las Vegas AX, and they weren't doing well, and I convinced they to write out the whole check. We became fifty fifty partners. I named it Everittsfield, the place that I lived for you own, you rented, or you actually owned the building. We rented the building, we rented the room. We remember how much Faye had to put in to get started. It was. It was a dumpy place, I would say, I mean those days, it

was a lot of money. Probably that was a lot of money. Okay. So how long does it take you after you find it to actually open um? It was only about six weeks of construction. It was really just cleaning it up. We had bleachers. People sat in bleachers that had carpeting on it, and it became a very very It was as I said, it was Billboard Club of the Year for two years. Yeah. I happen to have a list of the four. I'm not gonna let you read, okay, but just first question for you to

say some of the acts. What was capacity in Ebbitttsfield two hundred and seventy Okay, So give me some of the acts, okay. I'll just give you some of the big ones. Tommy Bowling, George Benson, roy By Cannon, J. J. Kale, Canned Heat, Cheech and Charm, I'm just Dr hook Ry Coutter, Climax Blues Band, John fay Leo, Cocky Dan Foldelberg, Peter Frampton, Richard Greene, David Grisman, Dick Gregory. It was a comical song. Um, John, we got the idea. So what happened? You all your

open abbage Field? How long is that run? And when do you get into concert? Four years? Four years and fay Line was exploding. Barry started doing national tours, did the Stones and about eight markets, did the Whon about eight markets. He knew I was a great promoter, a good promoter. I was a great promoter, Um, and said, why don't you We're never gonna make any money in

this club. You've developed a lot of great relationships, so why don't you sell the club and become my number one guy at fay Line so and start doing bigger shows. And so I sold the club four years after we opened and became the senior vice president of fe Line for ten years and booked many, many of the shows, and we did shows all over the country. We did William Whalen and the Outlaws across America. That's how I became best friends with Willie and Mark Clothboun who still

as manager Um and did that. I had some differences with Barry in terms of business practices and he had some problems that are well known locally with gambling, and I decided, Uh, I started managing the Dirt band and Leo Kaki and I put together a band by myself that became a band called Highway one on one, the THEOS country group of the Year, and I managed Susie Boggas and I'm and I found these young kids from Columbine High School named big Hat Todd in the Monsters.

So my management company. While I was running Faye or number two at Faye was doing well, I was a little burnt out on I'm promoting, but more burnt out of my relationship with Barry. I loved him, but we had our differences and so I left and just managed bands. Barry was bailed out he was going into bankruptcy for personal reasons um by Michael Cole. Michael Cole flew me up to Toronto. He had cp I then and said, you're the only body that fake and it it will ever

listen to. I want to keep you on as a consultant. You can manage all anybody you want, but stay on part time. So I saw. I stayed on when col bail Barry out and owned most of the line he got tired of Barry and got bought out by a guy named Jay Marciatto who was running House of Blues. Jay did the same thing and said, you're the only body failed ever listened to stay around as a consultant. So I did. And then when Faye announced he was retiring, I decided I'd go on my own as a promoter.

And that's what I called my dear friend Greg pearl Off and said, why don't we start at Chuck Mars program Presents in Denver? So what one? What year? We late nineties it was, And I said, I got an old building called Mammoth Events Center that is so made to be a film Wore. You guys own the brand. I want to build a filmore here and I'll never forget Greg and Sherry said, you're crazy. Bill never wanted to be like a House of Blues that have film.

War was all over the country. Guess who bo the companies and now have film was all of the company. But anyway, they came into town. They saw this old nineteen eleven club that needed a lot of work, and they said, Bill would call this a film Wore. And that was our first move. We opened the film wore in Denver and we really took over. While I was doing that, Greg said I got something I gotta tell you.

I said, what's that? I said, I've been talking to this guy, Bob Sillerman, who's probably gonna buy our company, and he's buying a whole bunch of our promoting companies, of other promoters. You just started a company in Colorado. You will get a chunk to give up your part in Colorado. I said, what the heck does that mean for me? He said, Okay, here's the deal. You're gonna get a nice check, nothing like we did when we saw b GP, but a nice check for being a

business for four months. You will get more money to invest in other things, and we're all stay. I said, well, that is not a hard decision to be made, so I stayed. We sold my part, everybody sold it to Bob, and of course he sold it the Clear Channel. I kept running it. Hired Don and Brent Is my first moves years ago. I hired Don, who was running the Fox. I hired him one day a week because I saw

him as being me twenty five years later. I said, this kid's a genius, So I hired him one day, one day a week, help helping our new company which became s X, which became whatever first p g P Chuck Mars and hired another guy from fay Line who couldn't handle the old fay Line and quit, named Brent for Drees hired him. Both hired Gone one day a week. That I said, work two days a week. You're booking great fade shows. You know that new stuff more than

I do. And then he went to three days. And then I took him out and said, Don, eight years was the first eight year of my career. I ran clubs. It almost killed me. Enoughs enough, you can still all in the club, Come work and do bigger shows. You'll have a bigger career. And I convinced someone, and then he worked full time. When I started a G, I met him and Brent partners equal partners with me, and

they've been with me forever since then. So ultimately you sell to Live Nation, but then you and Don and Brent leave Live Nation, as does pearl Off. What happens there, well, Um Grant sold it to Live too, actually as effects was sold at the Clear Channel was spun off the Live Nation. Greg left the same time as I did he was getting tired of it and started another planet same time, and I was getting tired of the politics of a publicly traded company, and I got approached by

my dear friend Phil and Show. So I've known for ever as a friend doing charity work with him. I just loved the guy. Went to Russia with him with the dirt Band because he had that's a quick story. He's got the largest Western our collection in the world, called the Anxious Collection. Grew up in Russell, Kansas, spent the rest of his life in Colorado, made a lot of money, built the greatest Western our collection was Sometimes

he tours around the world nonprofit. He called me one day he loved the dirt band and went to a bunch of shows. By the way, in fourteen years he's been to five of our shows, five of US shows in a g and has been to our age office once in fourteen years. He's the greatest. Did you do well? And he and he loves you. He lets you do your do what you want. He's the greatest. But anyway, he loved the dirt band and went to dirt band shows, and one day in nineteen right before the Russian Revolution

in year was it. What was callsby? Says, I gotta, I want to talk to you. Come over to the office. We were already great a g wasn't even open yet. He said he know about my Western art. Question me and she's collection. I said, yeah, Phil, don't you remember you? He gave me a tour of it while I was sitting here in Denver. He said, oh yeah, I forgot. He said, we're opening up the truck. You have a museum in Moscow for six months. I've never done this before.

I want to fly my favorite American country band to do thirty minutes acoustic in Moscow to open the exhibit. We'll have pressed there Soviet Union officials was right before the Russian Revolution, and you know other people. I'll get what do they make? And I said, I'll give him a fee. I'm there for nine nights doing other business,

oil business. You know, he has a million companies. And I'll put you and the girlfriends and wives and crew and band every the other eight nights, take everybody out for dinner and have I have a lot of fun. I'm doing business every day, other business. So we played thirty minutes to open the exhibit, and only Phil as I called him back in a day and said, Phil, we're gonna do it. Don't worry, but the band would love to play in front of some younger kids. This

is the art community. It was Soviet Union officials, it was He actually invited the whole U. S. Embassy and their families and art people. He said, Chuck, the whole country's falling apart. Right, it was fifteen months before the Soviet Union fell, so you can imagine what Musket was like. It was a beautiful art museum. Were his exhibit safe for six months? He said? Two days later he calls me back to say, Okay, the first night you're gonna

do open my exhibit. The second night I arranged a private show at a five thousand, most gorgeous opera house you've ever seen. We're inviting Soviet Union officials, their families, the U. S. Embassy and their families, and we're given away twicts to Russian students. And the third night I arranged How Phil evert did this today, I've never asked him, but he did it in three days, he said. And this is Phil talking to me, right. We were already good friends. A g wasn't even open yet, he said,

don't be mad at me, Chuck. But I said yes without asking you, And I'm not sure if you're in the band, think I want to do it. But I do a lot of business in the Soviet Union, and I find that if the Soviet, if Soviets, make you an offer, you have to say yes or no. If I would have said I got to talk to a band or prove it, it goes away. So I said yes, don't be mad at me. And I said, well, we're gonna have the greatest time in our lives. We don't care.

We'll do anything. He said, Okay, I arranged a free concert in Gorky Park. He played a talking about fifteen thousand people. How filled the state did that? I told I don't even know. It's don't even asked. We get around about it. But and that's how I became best friends with the film. Okay, so, how do you ultimately decide you want to start this music business program at Colorado State? For my whole life, he I was a t a of twenty years old to see you. I'm

the son of a school teacher. I always loved teaching. I've taught it about twenty different colleges on one office, just talking about music business. And I never had one plan in my forty eight year of music career. The one plan I had was I wanted to start a music business department at a Colorado university. One plan only plan, and I negotiated with not about money, but what school would would follow up program I wanted to build. And I made a deal with CSU where there it's not

a small town anymore, fail Collins. There's starting two thousand kids to go to that school and it's a big city now. And um, we're starting in three weeks introduction of music business and in three years it will be a minor and in five years it will be a major. Hired my first teacher under me, and I'm gonna have a whole department that I'm building, which has been the dream of my life to do that. And I'm gonna have guests every week of all my friends in the business.

And I'm inviting you by Skype to be a guest to okay, and who your first couple of guests You've already booked the first week because it's the first week. I invited a guy named Ja Marciano who graduated from c s U. Who's from Colorado, pattay j. He's the head of our whole company, and he's perfect, and I and write a big head title. I managed from here locally, still a big star here, and so they're gonna talk on the first week. But I have a stream of

people that are getting ready to say yes, executives, musicians also. Okay, are you the only teacher at this point, I'm not teaching at all. I'm gonna chairman of the department. I'll guess lecture. I'll be there when the when the special guests come once a week, but I'm not teaching day to day. I'm not doing exams. I hired my first teacher who had experience. Who how did you find a teacher? And who is he or she? Bart Bart Dol worked

at Madison House for String Cheese, worked for Christa. Sally in his company, and then toured at Metro State for five years. Music business. I wanted somebody both sides of it. Okay, what's gonna make your music business program different from all the other music business programs that have sprouted in the last few decades. Yeah, there's about forty of them, of which about ten are real good. And I studied them all.

I've flown to a lot of them. First of all, I'm gonna have the best as you have seen in your life because I have a lot of friends. Secondly, I have a PhD in music business. It's just not on the wall, and I'm gonna, I'm I believe, I'm gonna. I'm gonna build a great, great department. And the first the first class sold out in five minutes. Okay, we know all you were around when the business was still being built. Certainly in this sense this century, it's about consolidation.

But we know all these characters. We can list them one after one another, and you've mentioned a lot of them here. They were unique characters who probably would have been successful in some other field if they weren't in music business. Can you can you teach that to learn how to make it in the music business. Yes, I mean it's one thing to teach someone how to be a road manager or to be a tour accountant. But the managers and the promoters, the people who built this business,

they broke the mold after they made them. Well, you're absolutely right. I never took a music business There weren't any music business classes in those days. I do think if you love the business, and we'll do anything to get into it, you can learn some things that will make you a little bit more successful, a little quicker. And that's all I can expect to do. I'm not going to train somebody that doesn't have it in their bones to want to do it, but I think I

can make it a little bit easier for them. Okay, so what do you learn being a manager? We worked for the bands. You could tell them all you want, you can fight them, you could tell them, but but the bottom line is the band's And it took me a while to learn that that. You can do so much. You can go to a certain point, but if the band won't do it, you got to live with that, or else you get fired. I'm as as simple as that. How do you make the band more successful than they

are when you first get involved? Well, I build a band by audition called that became a band called Highway win On One that was a country group of the year. I auditioned people in Denver and that was like my creation. As far as big at Todd, they were already selling out um thousand ceders in Minneapolis and Chicago and San Francisco and Boulder in Denver and doing three five hundred in another markets, all managing themselves for about three years,

went to Columbine High School. All were born in Colorado. UM. I actually chased them for about a year and a half to manage them because they wanted to manage themselves. But I convinced them that if they really wanted to get bigger, um, they really probably had to go to a label, a big label. They made their own records, their own label, and they did pretty well. They sold tenths of twenty thousand two in the Bennett Records, which

was a lot. And and I made a deal with my great friend Irving at Giant Records, and we did an album called Sister Sweet Lee, got a great producer and sold a million and a half records. And they went from here to here. Yeah, broke, broken hearted stranger? How long broken a savior? Savior? Excuse me? How much longer did you continue to work with Bighead Todd after that? Initially about fifteen years? Thirteen years? Okay, okay? How did you get involved with the Dirt Band? Uh? They were

the third act that played for me. They moved to Colorado, they became my closest friends. You know, we're all at each other's weddings and um they're only other manager before me was a guy named Bill McEwen. Bill mckewen, That was John McEwen from the Dirt Band's brother. John McEwen had signed a young comedian named Steve Martin. Steve Martin was the opening act for the Dirt Band for almost three years on the bus. No one ever heard of him.

He was brilliant. In fact, when they played for me the first time they got off the bus at a lot of Eason said we got this comic Pam fifty bucks. He's on the All tour. I said great, and he was hysterical. Bill Uh. Steve was starting to explode. Bill was getting ready to do a movie called The Jerk. Steve was becoming a superstar. He was living in Aspen as he started a film company. He also signed another

He was brilliant with comics. Bill was signed a young comic named pee Wee Herman and produced pee Wee's Big Adventure And called me one day and said would you come out? And they all lived in Aspen. His company film company was Aspen Films, and still managing the Dirt band, his brother's band or one of the members, and said, I want to talk to you. And I went up there and he said, I'm just too busy with Steve Martin. He's exploding, and I have this other comic pee Wee

Pee Wee Herman. I think he's gonna be maybe as big, and I'm I'm finishing up scores for two movies and I just learned have enough time for my brother's band. Would you take over? And I love the guys. I had to think about it because I had never managed before, and I said, Bill, I never management before. I'm a promoter, I'm a club. Are you crazy? He said, Chuck, the band loves you. You know more about that music than

I do. And it's just the other side of the coin on another thing when he said that, and he was right, and I took over. They were sort of on the way down. They had hits in the seventies, but it was the early eighties and it was Donna summertime.

They weren't playing bands with banjos and violins anymore. They had boat Angles and make a Little Magic an American Dream in the seventies, but they stopped getting radio and they really were really underdown, and I said, let's go make a country deal because country radio should play you and that. And I said, I only managed you if you'd let me do that. I made a deal with one Is Nashville didn't change their music, just made some great records with Paul Warley and had ten top ten

country records. I convinced to do Circle the Unbroken Volume two that became album of the Year and had a huge comeback with them for fifteen years, twenty years and then and you know, managers either get fired or get bored or get tired and they leave. This is a certain amount of years, you know. I My joke was I once signed a band and they were too young to know what I was talking about. But I took them out to congratulate them and they signed with me

as their manager. And I said, this is a party for two things. They said, what's that? I said, resigning and for breaking up, because we are going to break up. It's just a matter of time. Okay. So, since you've played both sides of the fence, what can you tell people as a promoter and a manager, what can you tell people who have only played on one side? Well? I always tell my bands that I manage that unless their live dates come first before management stuff, you should

get fired. You have to fight for the bands for how much they make, for where they play, for who they play for. And if you don't do that, you're not being a good manager. You're not you should get fired. So I've always had two hats, sometimes on certain acts, not lot of them, but I've always you gotta be a promoter. When you're a promoter first for the band, and you gotta be a manager, and your manager first.

You don't do that. Okay. We mentioned a number of times at the beginning of your career when bamston't sell out being a good promoter. What is the essence of being a good promoter? Okay? How do you sell tickets for an act? It doesn't sell out instantly? Okay? Let me tell you what I did. How it was different in two there is now I would I would. I heard about this great guitar player named Leo Cocky who had never played bold or Denver. I had a band I was playing for me and they said that he

had opened for them. Uh, they had opened for him in Omaha, Nebraska, and he was brilliant. I went through the record store, bought his record, flipped out this is one. It's like his third album, maybe second. Took it down to the radio station, which was kr on W, which became KBCO which have been the number one rock station in this town forever, played it for him. They loved it, and they started playing the crap out of it. There

was no playlists then, there was no testing records. Then if they liked the band or right, maybe partied a little with the DJs, they got to play it and I would sell out for the first time. Say a funny story, first time I had J. J. Klee who I loved him. John Kale was the greatest, by the way.

His real name was John, but he couldn't be called John Kale because John there was another John Kale, and because of the union, you can't have the same name from Delvet Underground, so he's his Denny Cordell from Shelter Records changed his name to j J. Nicest, Sweetest hill Billy from Tulsa. All he did is want to fish and write songs. Really didn't like playing. He played once a year to pay his income Texas because he wrote a lot of hits for Eric Clapton. After midnight, all

these different songs. He came, He came into town, walked in the door for a sound check. I was standing outside and said, I am Chuck Morrison. I owned the pilates and there's a line around the block. And he looked at me very seriously and said, who am I opening for? I mean, Cale never thought about money or who he's playing with or anything. It was just a brilliant songwriter. And just you say, Cal that that's how we sold tickets. We got him on the radio. Needless

to say, that same paradigm doesn't exist today. Radio stations have tight playlists. Uh. Younger generation listens to terrestrial radio less. How do you promote a band today? Get pressed for him? Uh? Word of mouth? Um, get the record stores to tell them that if they move the record up to a better position, it's selling like crazy in color, out of springs. They want to think about it, little things. There's still ways now I might get used to be though it's

much it's those tricks are not that effect anymore. It's a different business business. Are there any new tricks that are effective? Uh? Well, the same trick as always bring a band in as an opening act. Who's great? And let them develop their own fans right here as an opening act, put him on a big show. How many times you've been married, chuck? Uh three? But my wife now is thirty years. How old were you when we were married the first time? Jesus asking personal questions here? Yeah,

we get down gritty, pardon the pun. It was my high school and college girlfriend. Okay, because you you were so far ahead of the game. You were young, so that might have made it difficult on a relationship level. It was a very bad marriage, and the last that it was very short. I was still a graduate student. She came out to Colorado had graduated also in a young age, and was a school teacher. And we broke up after a year. And then what was second wife? Yes,

at last or ten years? I have two beautiful children and my third wife, who was great. We have three three kids, so it's unusual. I guess the question I'm asking this is a business that's seven. Has it affected your relationships? Um? You know, I have a wife that loves what I do, believe it or not, and loves

me watching me work, and loves music. I had another wife that didn't like it, and I spent too much time you gotta find the right girl for that, gotta get lucky and will your wife come to your gigs? Oh yeah, yeah, okay, So tell us about the development of Red Rocks into the monolith it ultimately be has become. Well, you know it started um. In fact, here's a little trivia question. The Beatles played Red Rocks and there were very few rock shows in the sixties and Red Rocks,

in fact, very few. It was the only Beatles show ever in America that didn't sell out. We did sixties six I can promote it was before I was in the business. Uh, you know, did people because people weren't used to going there. They had church services there, they had lectures there, they had different stuff, but very little music.

In fact, when Faye and I started to started doing a lot of shows at Red Rocks, the city try to stop having music and we had to go to court to convince them that we ought to do more shows. And the funny part is they stopped us from doing a band called America, which is as soft as it

could be. And we went we had I asked some of my friends testify that it was a great thing for the community and that America for God's sakes, you don't riot to America, I mean, but we won and now our company does over shows a year at Red Rocks up till the latest tragedy where we're doing none. Okay, So Red Rocks is an open building. How do you compete with other promoters? In Red Rocks? You get the bands, relationship with bands or the agent or the manager. Um,

we we do majority shows. My whole company Live Nation when I ran that, we did the majority. But I took my key guys Do and Brenton mostly company with us and we do a lot more than they do. It's still relationships. You say they are, but it's still relationships. You may not have the long relationships like from beginning to end their careers, but it's still relationships. Okay. And a couple of memorable shows at Red Rocks. What can you tell us? Well, I did with Faye the YouTube

the famous You two show that was a video. And the great story was it was snowing that day and Barry and I had booked the US Festival the weekend before. We did the second year of the US Festival for Steve Wozniak. We were flying back from Santa Barbara from the show and we're flying and you two was that night flying over Red Rocks, landing in Denver and it was snowing, and Faye was freaking out, and you know the man put up Paul McGinnis, who I loved to death,

their manager for years and retired a while ago. He put a second on his house to put up money. I put up money he borrowed from Faye for myself, from friends to put up money to make that video which broke the band, of course, no question. So we got off the foot the plane and Barry's freaking out, saying we gotta move it inside. In those days, you can move the equipment wasn't like it is today. You can move a show. If it was by noon, you could move it indoors to the old Denver Colosseum. And

he was afraid we wouldn't have a show. And I said, Barry, there's no way they put up their life savings for this. He said, I'm gonna get him on the phone. He went to a pay phone at d I A actually was staple with him then, and called Paul McGinnis that stage who was setting up, and said, you gotta move the show. It's snowing. We're not gonna have it, will never make it. And McGinnis said, we put our heart and soul to this. We don't care, and let me

get Bottle on the phone. Who we had? We had did his first state in Denver at the Rainbow Music Hall. I became really good friends with the band. In fact, I took him out for dinner on a vacation and dub them one year and Bio said, Barry, we put our life savings into this. I don't care if it snows all over us, We're gonna play. And it turned out that cold weather and that air coming out of his mouth, and and and and the freezing made that

video exactly when he's marched around with the flag. Okay, since you're a fountain of tales, any other tales you want to put in here before we wrap up? Oh God, there were so many great shows. It's really hard to say one from the other. But I would say the first show we did with Willie and Whalen when we took over their tour because their previous promoter had gone

out of business. And we started doing Willy William and the Outlaws for a couple of years all over the country, and it was the first time I had done Willie at my club and got to know WILLI he had moved to Colorado actually for a while. But the first time fail and done Willie and in a bit at Red Rocks, and that was magical. He's still magical. He's an amazing guy. Now what we know? There's been a music business forever, but the confluence of the Boomers and

the Beatles blew it up. Okay, both the record business, which referenced earlier, and certainly the live business. What do we know? The boom racks, the classic rock acts are dying or will literally be off the stage within ten years. Does it matter that they're gone? Or is the business so big that as long as you're somebody to put on stage it will all be healthy. Well, I want to disagree on one thing. I remember it was a famous old quote from Mick Jagger saying he wouldn't be

singing when he was thirty. He's now what on this tour? Where that weird AG's doing? I think? Okay, So I'm not so sure that five or ten years some of them might still be playing. But you're right, they're gonna die away or retire. I don't know. About retiring, but hey, Williams, in his late ages, he still play. I mean, okay, but when when those acts expire, whether it be five years or twenty, okay, when they can no longer play live or no longer here, will that affect the live business?

I think not that much. I think the live business has become such a part of our of our life, of our economy, of our soul in America that I think, you know, the young bands from the eighties and nineties are gonna be around, and they've been some pretty good ones,

you know, the YouTube era. They're so relatively young, so I I think it will hurt a little bit, But um, I think music is going to stay around for a long time, especially in Colorado where it is such a part of our psychic Well, this has been wonderful, Chuck. Thanks for your history, your stories, and your insight, and I wish you luck and continued success with your Colorado State University venture in the music business. Thanks so much

for doing this. Yeah, well, thank you, and uh Donn and Brent are gonna make it even bigger as they take over. Right now, I'm totally convinced that those boys are the greatest. Until next time. This is Bob left six h