Chris Zarou

my meeting. I sat down with these guys, Chris and one of the guys who worked with him, and they told me the story of managing Logic and they all said, you gotta watch the vm A. Something's really gonna happen on the vm A s And they were right, Chris, how old are you? And you really had quite a career. But let's go from the beginning. So you're from Long Island, Long Island, New York guests. Okay, what town exactly? Garden City, Garden City, Garden you grow up? Are you interested in music? Very?

I guess when I started figuring out my identity right as an Adams became very interested in music. I think before that I don't have much much memory of of being more of a music fan than the average person. But definitely as I got older, right, I think I would. I would just dive in a little bit more. If I liked an artists or a band, I would use the Internet and try and find out as much as I possibly could about that particular artist. Well, that's interesting

because being twenty eight, you grew up in the napster era. Yes, you remember using Napster. We're not with the police, are not here? I use naps I I do remember using Napster heavily, heavilyly, okay. And did you ever buy CDs all the time? Yeah? I used to go to the city store. There's a you know, Pete, I don't even remember the name of the city store. There's a pizza place that I would go to Friday nights with my parents and brothers and sisters and record store right next door,

and I would spend hours there. So okay. And there are how many kids in your family? I'm one of six? One of six? And where are you in the hierarchy? Second oldest, second oldest? And your father did what for a living? He worked in I t his whole life, still does Okay? And how far from New York City. Were you about a thirty five minute trip on the Long Island Railroad and did you go all time? And what would you do in the city. I mean, I'd

go when when I was old enough to go with friends. Right, you just go to go school, go to the pinball place. That's a good look at the musical instrument at mann He's the greatest city in the world. We'd go as a family around Christmas time. It's tradition. We still do it. And then and then as I and I am again, I'm skipping around. As I got into the business, it

was super helpful for me. I think a lot of it was serendipity and luck right being being born in New York in Long Island, right when I decide, okays what I'm gonna do. Them get in the music business. Half of the major labels, if not more, their headquarters are based in Manhattan, So I'd constantly going in for meetings and and things like that. Yeah, people say, you know, you can do it from anywhere now, but face to face does make a difference, big difference, I do believe.

Because of the Internet, right, you can do it from anywhere, but face to face that that that personal connection when somebody goes along way. Okay, so you're in the high school, when do you decide, hey, this is something I might want to make a career aut them. Not not in high school, it was. It was definitely later, I think my again, at a less since, when you start trying to figure out your identity or what you're passionate about.

For me, it was it was sports, specifically soccer. That was my main focus majority of of my teenage years. And um, I guess I've always been a little bit ambitious and and um very set some audacious goals. I wanted to be a professional soccer player. Um that was and I took it very seriously. I kind of dedicated my life to it. And for me, it was okay, if I played Division one, that's the first step of

getting there. And so so from probably sophomore year in high school, I really dedicated my life and time to to trying to become a professional soccer player and getting a Division one scholarship as my first step, and and um,

that was my focus. I did that. I jumped around a little bit, I played my freshman year, I went to Kinnisius College in Buffalo, didn't love Buffalo, didn't have the greatest experience with with the coach there, and I think that was a theme throughout my short college career. Um it kind of started to to take my passion away for the sporting I think it ruined it for me a little bit. So, So at this late date, do you think you have the ability to go all

the way? No? And and that's also something that I realized, right, I think I'm very fortunate to be very self aware. And you know, shortly after playing, you know, you start with what I would do is I would look at

seniors who who are definitely better than me. They would graduate, and I'd watch them, right, and and that social media is a beautiful thing, and I'd keep in touch with these guys a lot of them, and they would go and kind of jump around and try to play a much lower level professional teams and not really have much luck. And I'm like, holy shit, right, and I got okay, I got two more years or three more years to get as good as he was, and he's not even So it was it was that played a big role

in me deciding to not play anymore. Was you know what, I don't think I'm good enough. Okay, so you're one year in Knician. Then where'd you go from? I did one semester there. I played the first semester I transferred. There was a college at Delphi University on Long Island. The coach is very interested. That's where Gary de Labatte went from this Howard Church show. That's why I hear about it all the time. And and uh, there was a coach there that was very interested in me. But

I chose to go to Kinnisius. So I rang them over over the holiday. I was like, listen, you know, I'm thinking about transferring. I didn't want to take time off. I wanted to find a team in place, because at Division one level in the in the off season, right and I guess was spring semester. Um, you play, you play five days a week, and then that's how it goes. So I rang him. He was like, listen, you could walk on the team right now. So I did that.

I transferred there. I played there in my sophomore year. Um, and that's when I kind of decided, you know what, I'm just not going to do this anymore. And did you literally stop playing? Literally stop playing? And you play it all in pick up games. Now I wish I did. I I don't have the time. Um, I use as an excuse probably, but there's a lot of leagues you can play him, but I'm in the office until until Okay, so you drop out of uh playing American football, I

mean European football soccer. And if you only drop out because you don't think you're gonna goodenough, not because you've

been motivated by the music thing or anything. No, no, no, it was it was a combination of of that, right, I think, you know, recognizing that and saying, you know what, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna kind of stop, and then having some some bad experiences with coaches who really really ruined my love of the game a little bit at um, you know, not not just not being great people, I think ultimately is what did it for me, and um, you know, not making it fun anymore. I I really

love that sport. Um, it was amazing, smad love competing. I'm very competitive and it was now lit for me right to be competitive and do that, and especially I was trying to do it at the highest level. But yeah, I don't think I truly do think my experiences with some bad coaches at that level really ruined it for me, and and being a little bit you know what, I just don't think I'm quite good enough. Um, it was

a combination of all of that. Well, I have to ask, because you're of the demo, what do you see going forward visa the European foot well in American football in the United States? I think, and again very opinionated, but I think this is your chance. Don't hold back. Now, that's a good question. I think in thirty years it's gonna be the biggest sport in America. Right, and you think American football survives, I do not. I'm with you,

I do not. I just think because of of the the now is, people are recognizing the dangers of playing that sport. I think, and again, it takes time. It takes you years, right, I think people are gonna start. I think you're gonna see an up swing back into baseball. It's where the best athletes go. I think that those sports succeed, right. And I think because maybe soccer in

this country isn't as sexy. I think when when very good athletes get to a certain age, you generally drop soccer and you focus on probably American football and and and maybe basketball, right, um, just because I think that's it's not a sexy to play soccer. Everyone everyone plays it super young, right, every but then you just drop it. Now, if you're having the best athletes literally in the country deciding to play soccer, you're going to see that change.

I think it needs the perfect storm, in my opinion, what it's going to take to really because it happens every every four years, right, everybody gets World Cup fever, right, And for me, I think in order for the stick beyond just that summer, you need a superstar athlete, an American kid, an American player who is a is a true world class player, not just in the US but in the world, and combining with a a big US soccer run in the World Cup, I think at that moment,

the perfect storm, it'll it'll it'll stay. Okay, so you're in the Delphi, you stop playing soccer, and then what and then I it wasn't initially stopped dead. I debated, I said, you know what, maybe I'll play Division two. So I immediately transferred to another. I went to four, I went to four different colleges, and you did graduate? I did I graduate from a Delphi. I went back. Um, but just you know, generally speaking, going from community community, you can start off with a whole new set of

people have already been there for a while. Are you the type of person who can fit in anywhere? Yeah, that's never been too much of an issue for me. I was also at that point when I transferred and went back to Long On it was all local, so it's a little different. I had a bunch of really really good friends that I grew up with for at that point, what fifteen years, seventeen years, so I wasn't as um needing a community at at whatever school I

was at. I had my You went from all Aware CW Post, which is another school Long On division school program. They're very good, and I transferred there on me because I was like, you know, what if I decided to play and then I ultimately decided not to. I think I jumped at that point back to community college because I'm like, all right, am I going to transfer out of Long Island and then just you know, forget playing

and go somewhere else, maybe to a bigger school. Um. And then again at that time, I think I started to uh debate the idea of of of dabbling as a career in music. Okay, so tell us about your inkling, how you decide you might do that. It was, you know, that was a weird time in my life. I think it was nineteen where you know, I devoted how many of her years it was to the sport, and it was just I'm not doing it anymore. So I kind of had to figure out what I wanted to do.

And I remember just asking myself kind of kind of self talk a little bit, you know what, what do I love as much as the sport of soccers? I wanted to fill that void with something that was truly passionate about. And the only thing I could answer that with was music, right, And that sounds silly because everybody loves music, but I think I again, looking back, I was definitely more passionate, I think than the average person. So I was just like, okay, cool, I'm gonna try.

I'm gonna figure it out. I don't think I was somebody who wanted to just be a normal college kid. I needed something to work on or work towards at least, So for me, that's how kind of I stumbled into music. Okay, And did you know what role you wanted to play

in music. I didn't. I didn't I started. So then I when I kind of figured that out, I would literally just go to Barnes and Noble, right, and I would go to the music section and just try and read music business books and just I knew nothing nothing. So to me, I think I stumbled upon artist management because I was like, all right, this has the lowest barrier to entry. I think, if you can do it yourself and license to starve. But that's why the buried

entry is so low, absolutely because I didn't know. I had no relationships in the business. I had no connections, So that was me. I was like, listen, Okay, if I do this myself, if I find an artist and I kind of build something, that's that's my my my entry into the business. So I think that's how I truly stumbled upon arts management. Okay, what was the next step? The next step is finding talent, which is the hardest thing to do with the greatest manager, but without hit

act forget it correct, you know. And this goes back to my passion I think throughout and what I realized looking back now, there was a lot of parallels between my my love of soccer and my love of music. I would train a lot, and often by myself when I'm not at practice, right, and I would always have music with me and when I that's just they went hand in hand. Um. So with that said, I would find myself on the internet on different music blogs and

and just looking at up and coming artists. So I already knew that world a little bit just from being a fan, right, and and then so I said, okay, I need to find artists. I would just go to those same websites and blogs and look for talent. Okay, how much time did you spend doing that? Probably a ridiculous amount of time, like hours a day. Yeah, I think so all my free time, basically, that's what And your parents said, what about this? You know they were

My parents are greatest people in the world. They they I truly believe. If I was at this time, I was again nineteen, probably almost twenty years old, I think if I, you know, transition my life the way I did, I you know, stop playing soccer and I said, hey,

I want to be an astronaut. They were like great rock out so they financially helpful, not no, not at all, you know they they I don't think they could have been and um, you know they want to and still work ethic in me and I think they did that. I was probably the only kid at Division one soccer team who had to have a job. My dad. My dad was very adamant about me working, said, what were you doing, Kenisius? I worked at the gym. I signed people in right, it was a work study. What do

you want to call it? But yeah, he was like, listen, you need to, you know, fund your life, and you have to have a job. I was like, Dad, you know, I'm Division one soccer is a full time job and being a full time student. He's like, I don't give a ship. So okay, So now you have this epiphany when you're in community college. I think, I think that's what it was. Are you still working at the time. Yes. I worked in retail, worked in the mall. There was a store called Rule, which was I guess a a

more adult version of Ambercrombie and Fitch is where I worked. Okay, and you're living at home. I'm living at home and you're surfing the next do you start contacting these acts? I did? And how did that turn out? I mean good? I would try and start a dialogue in a relationship with them a little bit. You would say, what, I'm nobody from nowhere, come work with me exactly literally, and and a lot of it was Hey, let me show you what I think I can do for you, and

I'll prove myself to you. Right. I had no I had no experience, I had no resume, and that all it was as just trying to say, hey, listen, you know, so what happened? Um? I started working with an artist and everything was going well. I've learned the artist was weird. You were on the island. The artist was weird. The first artist I ever worked with was was an artist by the name of Jazz Cardier. He was from Toronto. Came across amount a website, reached out to him. Um, Yes,

started a relationship, started working together. UM. And it was cool for me because you learned as you go, right, Um, started working with him. Everything went well. I think shortly after that we we decided to to part way is probably a couple of months in Um. But what did you do for him? Uh? Kind of everything, right, I mean what did you achieve? Uh? My big thing was was finding attention wherever eyeballs and ears were That's where I wanted my artists obey. To this day that that

hasn't changed. Um And I think I understood the internet really well, probably just from being a fan of it and watching what was happening. I'd watched different artists have moments and uh create buzz or blowing up. But if you want to call it right and I reverse engineer that. That was my big thing. Okay, that artist got to hear how he'd do it, and I would just dive in and try and figure it out. I still do that to this to this day. What did you do

for this artist? I developed a lot of relationships with these blogs And that sounds funny right today in two thousand eighteen these blogs, but at the time this is probably two thousand ten, no oh nine, probably, and uh yeah, they were they were everything at the time. I think there was a lot of attention there and there was a lot of um eyeballs and ears. Okay, so if you had a relationship, would they promote this guy's song? Correct? And did you see any reaction? Absolutely? And that's a

beautiful part about the internet. Data right, and it's much there's much more data now, but at the time you know, whether we put something up on YouTube. I think, you know, music streaming wasn't a conversation. The word at the time didn't exist really. Um, I think YouTube was the only music streaming service in the world probably at the time. I don't know, maybe Spot of five, but it was Spotified was in eleven, right, so in Europe only, and and um a YouTube was was huge at the time.

So you get to see the views, you get to see you know, the listons. And also why did it end with this person in Toronto? Um, I think we mutually agreed to to to part ways, right, And at the time I found another artist, um that I started working with Philadelphia, a young rapper, amazing kid. So I was kind of balancing them both and then I think the other one took more of my attention. Okay, So the person in Toronto, whatever happened to him, Um, he's

doing well now. Okay, So he's the one in Philadelphia. The name of this rapper is Okay, And what happened there a little bit of the same scenario where where I think, you know, and at that point when I was working with him, I had came across logic stuff and started building relationship with logic a little bit okay, but before you get there, the guy in Toronto, the guy in Philadelphia. You have actions, you're interacting with the blogs. You're not making any money, no, no, no, no. Management

is a business where the money comes later. If you do it right, the money comes out. If you do it wrong, it doesn't come at all. Right, So a little slower, how do you end up interacting with logic? So that's that's a that's a funny story. Actually it's you know, and again a lot of and and now, especially being a little bit older, I look back and how much of it was serendipity and how much of

it was luck and how literally. So I was working with this artist out of out of Philly, and this is early days of Twitter again, this is late oh nine, very early, right, and I'm on Twitter. That's just what I did, right, I'd follow things that I was interested in passion about all music ship basically. And at the time, this artist DJ, I followed him right, and he tweeted out a YouTube link right, just U R L, no description,

no nothing, And I was probably bored. I was on my I was at home on my computer, and I clicked the video, and it was an acapella video of logic rapping. He was walking down the University of Maryland somewhere. It was poorly done at the time, and I ended up speaking a lot of about it after and I figured out why it was such poor quality. He ended up having the microphone. He put it in his hoodie. He was wearing a hoodie and he put it in the hoodie so it could pick up his his voice.

And it was probably a minute and a half video, right and something destruct me and I was like, I think he was very as a rapper. You could tell his his technical ability and how skilled he was. Something just him and I was like, this kid is a student in the game. I need I need more um. And it was very difficult to find him before you get there. How many views did the video have when you saw it, Yeah, it was difficult to find. Difficult

to find him. I don't know what social media he had at the time, if any, wasn't really much there. He didn't really have a fan page or anything like that. I found his personal Facebook and I literally just Facebook chat at him. Now this is two two thousand ten, very early Facebook chat at him very much, say why I reached out to everybody else I wanted to work with. I was just blindly ambitious. I didn't think ship right,

and I reached out to him and started conversating. I think at the time he had thought I was a fan, so he was super He was really sweet kid, I mean, and and we start a dialogue. Shortly after, I think I got his phone number and I call him and I want to work with you. And I jumped on a megabus um, which is a beautiful, beautiful thing. I think it's what was I getting to to Maryland four? I think thirty dollars round trip, very very explained to people,

because not everybody knows what the mega bus. It's probably just an East coast thing, right, certainly New York, New York to Boston, etcetera. But for the people listening who are certainly not from that are explained the megabus. It's amazing. I mean, it's it's a it's a big bus, right, you pay little to no money and they'll take you basically anywhere up and down the East Coast. It's very beautiful things. Okay, but you wait, you wait in line in the cold, you wait for the bus to come.

They're generally very late. And you walk on the bus. You have your E ticket I'd printed out at my parents house and jump on the long Land are getting the city and go um and yeah, I go down to see him and the megabus that some of these buses depending when you booked, the prices different, like but girly could be very cheap, correct, and some of them have WiFi. Dadn't at the time, no one nobody have

waf right, Okay, So you go Maryland. Your parents are like this is fine, the most supportive parents in the entire world. Okay, And okay, you're going. You plan you you know you're going to Maryland. You think you're gonna stay at his house were You're gonna take the megabus back the same day. So so I think how it happened first before I visited. So at the time, he was again he had a little team together. You didn't

have management, okay, the team was what his friends. Yes, literally um, and he was like, hey, we wanna you know, we want to shoot a video. I think he was putting together his first project ever at the time, and he was like, hey, we want to shoot a video. I want to meet you. You know, maybe we'll come up to New York and you can kind of show us around Manhattan and we could we could, you know, meet each other at the time point and shoot, I guess is what you'd call it. We shoot very low budget.

I mean no budget, right, is how we do it. UM. So he I was like, cool, come up right, I'll meet you and I'll take you guys around. I don't I mean man Hatt's Manhattan, I don't know. I was like, I was like, ship where I even? I don't know. Um, I had a buddy who lived there and he had a top, so you guys want to use that as a location. UM. And he came up. I met him. We kind of hung the entire So this was before you took the megabus. Correct, he came up, We hang out.

There's a big issue with managers. You always need an act that wants it as much as the manager wants. And so how did you pick up? And where was he at in terms of his desire? U? The kid is is the most ambitious kid I've ever met in my life. To this day, he still is. And and I think that's that's common from any successful artist. Um. You you have to really because it's it's hard as hell. Right, looking back at my very short eight years, it is hard as hell. Okay, so he comes to New York.

How do you close them? Listen. I wasn't trying to, you know, be be forced for the aggress I was like, man, let's just let's let's work together and if I if you like me. I was literally that simple. If you like me and you know you you like what I'm doing for you, let's work together. And if not, all good. It was that simple, right, um. And we spent a lot of time before he had met on the phone together. We speak pretty often. I tell him kind of some of the ideas I had. We talked about his music

a lot. Um. I was he was fortunate enough to kind of I guess once I gained his trust to let me in his his creative world, I guess, um. And he came up. I kind of took him around for the day and they went back they I think they did the megabus or they did. One of his friends drove up and they all packed in a car and came up very shortly after. I was a qual come down and see you. At the time, he was living in his best friend's basement, to this day. His

best friend is Lenny. His name is called Big Lembo. Um he met him, I guess he logic was at a I believe this is I don't want to get the story wrong. He had opened up for somebody at some up and coming show and Lenny saw him and they started talking after the show, and Lodge just kind of working the dead in jobs. At the time. He was living with his I guess his stepmother, godmother Mary Joe,

whatever you wanna call her. Um. His relationship with with both his parents at the time weren't great, so he wasn't really living with either one of them, and was logic, at this point, we're the same age or he's probably nineteen or twenty. I was nine, probably twenty, and he was working, Yeah, he was. He was just working dead in jobs and developed a relationship with Lenny, and I guess he was like, Lenny, could if you let me live there, give me one year. Give me one year

to see if this thing works out. I want to go all in. I don't want to go to work and take having anything to take my time away. I want to work on music every day all day. Lenny was kind enough, He's like dude come living my basement, so at the time he was living in Lenny's basement. I went down there and it was probably a little bit less than a twenty four hour trip. We didn't we didn't really sleep. We kind of just hung the whole night and talked UM and I left early the

next morning. Were they going to shoot video in New York? In New York and they ran around New York video. I thought the video was in Maryland. No, no no, no, they ran around a shot. I just went down to Maryland after I met him in New York to continue building a relationship, and I wanted to see, you know, where he comes from. So I went down there. Was the first time I went to ended up going down there many times, but that was the first time I jumped on a mega bus and we kind of hung

you know, all night and got to know each other better. UM, and yeah, that was okay. So what's the next step? UM, I think we were working together. I don't know if we ever even had a real conversation at the point of things, you know, it started just going well, right. I think we we um were like minded. We we we love working hard and and UM, I think we just started working together. So we're putting together his first

mixtape at the time. Um it was called Young Sinatra, which is like his alter ego as as a rapper, and um, we put that together, we put it out, and I would do my thing, right. I think I had my little niche of understanding the internet at the time and the music business again, uh, probably going towards now, very the recorded music business was in a very weird spot, right, Um, and I didn't. I guess my ignorance at the time was beneficial because I didn't understand really the that side

of the business. Um, I understood how to try and break through. And and my I guess philosophy or thesis was building a fan base. It was always long term thinking at the time, and so was his right. And you have to be willing to make that. I think if you constantly try to do things for force small gains or short term wins, you ended up not really gonna win long term. So it was always about building a fan base, building a base, building a base. That

was our thing. Now with the previous actually worked, the blogs, How did you do it with logic? Same thing, same thing. And I think with those acts I I ended up just developing great relationships with a lot of these blogs and websites and even understanding that world even better and doing certain things to cut through and different you know, social media outlets at the time, understanding their algorithms and where I could post things, at what time of the day,

when I reached the most people. You know, I think I can be a big nerd with that kind of stuff. Um. And it just helped me understand how to reach more people, and I would focus on that, and that's what we really do. So at the time, our our our thing was free music, right and even to this day you set at to people, it's kind of it's kind of crazy, um. And I think we did that because we were thinking

long term. Right, if we put out quality music and and great content to reach people, and you do it consistently, you're probably gonna win in the end, right and and and it was always a long term mentality. We didn't want anything tomorrow, um. And I think that looking back was was huge that we both had the same mindset. Okay, at the time, you're trying to build awareness, but how do you ultimately know who your fans are at that point?

That's a good question. Because that's difficult and a lot of that we didn't have that detailed data, right, I think that you can get today. Um it was so I use what was huge at the time was YouTube, right, Like I said, I think that was the only music streaming service in in in in the world at the time. We're at least in in the US. And so what we would do we'd go through the project, him and I would have conversations and we'd want to shoot four

or five music videos for just one project. And the project may have fifteen songs on it, right at least even be edited or just one take him walking in his so to speak, point and shoot is what we called it, him walking in his hoodie, no budget. What we would do we we found a young director and we kind of bargain with them where we were building out right the YouTube channel and we're getting a certain

amount of views at the time. I was like, hey, if you because we didn't have money, if you work with us, I'll put your logo at the front of the video. So that's how I kind of we we kind of did it that way. Embartered a little bit um and we traded attention for a lot of stuff right, So we did that. We'd work with a young director at the time who was super talented, ambitious, hustler. Um

and we point shooting. The whole thing of doing four to five music videos a project was because identified, well, YouTube is how you reach people. So let's pick the strongest singles, right is what we were doing really, um, and let's highlight those still the same thing to this day. And a single as a gateway drug to dive in deeper and and and fall in love with the artist hopefully. How do you know that you're getting traction or are you getting views? Right at the time was how we know.

And then then what we try to do is convert that into social media follows. Whether we're building his Twitter at the time, it's probably on the Twitter and Facebook. At the Instagram didn't exist. There wasn't much else, so Snapchat certainly didn't exist. Um and yeah, try and convert it into a real fans who would stay. Okay, so he does his first mixtape and what's the step after that? Do another one? It was consistency. Okay, how many mixtapes we did four together before we put on an album?

Four free projects right, which which and I remember then and I'm probably jumping around a bit, starting to have meetings at at labels and record companies, and the conversation around few free music was was odd. I think my perspective at the time differed from a lot of other people because I would always say I would it was contradiction.

I would say, you absolutely can monetize free music, right, And what that was is you just have to think long term, and if you do it the right way and build a base, you're gonna tour, You're gonna sell merch. We become a brand. That was our goal, um, and I think I think we did a pretty good job at that. But what came first touring or label meeting. Probably at the same time, I think, okay, so when

do you decide let's literally put the act on. We we probably put out two projects maybe yeah, again it's going back to a little blurb two projects. At the time, it was all intuition. It was all gut, right, you start building the following you can and and a lot of things we would do is all about the fans.

We would have conversations about hey, you stream, remember you stream at the time, Yeah, that was you know on Twitter, constantly go on you streams, just do Q and as with the fans for two three hours a day, right when he wasn't working on music show the process. Hey, you stream you recording a song? How many people would tune in? I don't know. Eight hundreds? Yeah, it was a lot, um because I just understood that attention was very valuable and even if it's a five people, it

goes a long way. So we do that. And so to answer your question, how do we know when guatur straight intuition, straight gut. At the time we're doing labels, he would jump on a megabus, come up to me, sleep at my parents house. He crashed on the floor in my room. Um. And then we jump on the Long Island railroad and going to Penn Station and have label meetings. And okay, just to be very clear, this

is before or after you've gone on the road. Before okay, you would set up a meeting or you would knock on the door and sit in the waiting. So just as we're creating, you know, and building this fan base online it you know, there's an r S out there and there's people who pay attention. Just like I was in the blog world, they were as well, and they reach out and say, hey, we're interested. We love to have a conversation, UM, and we would take meetings and get to know people and UM try to learn how

that world worked a little bit. So how would the meetings end? Good to meet you, We'll we'll we'll get back to you. We'll think on it. And did you then pester them or did they disappear they come back? I didn't pester anybody. I think logic and I were having conversations at the time. I said, we'll do it when it feels right. If it feels right, if it doesn't, we don't do it. And you know, having that trust

in what you're doing, I think is important. We would turn down deals at the time and you know, okay, so a little slower you're going for all these A and R meetings. How many do you think you took before you went on the road? A lot. I think we probably took definitely met with every major at some point, whether some were pre touring somewhere, and all of those acts, all those companies reached out to you. You didn't reach

out to them. Correct. Did you have a lawyer at the time, I did, which again was very still working with him to this day. He represents Logics to this day. Was very serendipitous as well. Again, as I had no right relationship in the business, right I needed a management contract and I didn't know any entertainment lawyers. I didn't know anybody. So my my closest connection to the music business was at one of my one of my best friends dads worked in Manhattan. That was my connection. I

literally called my buddy. I said, hey, dude, cause you ask your dad if he knows any entertainment lawyers. He said, sure, call his dad. Again serendipity. Look, he's like, oh, I think in he had an office down in Soho And he's like, oh, I think and he's an accountant. I think an entertainment attorney moved into the building this week. Let me grab the super and get his card for you. That night, I drove to my buddy's house grab his card. I called the lawyer that was eight years ago, and

it's the same lawyer, same one. So I was like, hey, I'm you know, I'm working with this artist. I kind of need management contract and I had to pay for the management and that same kid, my buddy actually lent me the money too, probably and how old. Is the lawyer is your contemporary or older? He's older now, he's probably closer. I didn't even want to say his age, but yeah, he's he's older than me. He's much almost double my age. So did your lawyer help get you

meetings or you're just fielding emails? Just fielding emails? That was my that was my you know thesis at the time, it'll come to us if we're doing if we're doing it right, and we're building an audience, and it's going to come to us. And that's exactly what happened. And at this point you're all in on logic. You don't have any other acts. Correct, It was all in on logic at this time. And then shortly after I met John Billion, who's my second client that that I'm working with.

Thanks for listening to this week's edition of the Bob Left Sets podcast. If you want to see photos and videos of my guests and the tune In studios here in Venice, California, check out at tune In on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and now more with president of Visionary Music Group Chris Rue. So you're with logic, how do you decide to put it on the road? So we it

was it was intuition, it was goud. Obviously, we're feeling things out, and I think I felt I was like, listen, I think at this point, as I do, we could probably tour. I think there's thirty markets at a minimum in this country where we can do three tickets, right, three three or four hundred tickets. And again you're going straight off intuition. I didn't have a lot of What it was was kind of feeling things out with your gut and the same way we take meetings, right, if

something feels right, we'll entertain. If it doesn't, we won't. And you know, so I think we decided said, let's we're gonna do it. We're gonna put up a tour. And you need capital, you need money to do that. So I think I was like, listen, what if we signed a deal, because at this point, there was you know, a lot of interests, a lot of offers. So what if we signed a deal and used that advanced money to fund our tour? And I think that's what we

agreed to do. We signed with def JAM at the time, this is how long after your initial meeting with Logic less than a year, a little bit less than a year. So this is this is very very early, UM, and we decided on def JAM. It felt right. We again, after all the meetings everything, it just just in our guts felt the best. Um. We did the deal. I remember, I was, I was still in college. I was. I remember the weird juxtaposition. I was studying for finals on

on my desk in my room. And then I also had a record contract with notes from his lawyer that I was trying to go through and decipher at the same time. Um, we signed and and use the money, and we toured it and I told you have to I said, please, we don't want to. We don't want to announce anything. We wanted hands off. UM. And that's what we did. We didn't. I don't think we announced the deal for another year and a half after that. Do you remember how much money they gave you? Yeah?

I do. Okay, you're not gonna tell me. But was there any money to put in your pocket after the tour? Very little? Very little? Okay. So how do you get an agent? Yeah? We had an agent at the time. There's a little boutique agency, UM called New Agency that would they specialized. They were really smart and yes, and then Matt Adler is who we were working with, still a good friend of mine today. I was actually with

him the other day. Um we. They specialized in kind of working with up and coming artists, right and they scour the blog world the same thing I was doing. They reach out and find built a relationship with them. Started working with Matt Adler, and we went through and we put a tour together and we funded it with the advanced money. And it was a lot of it. Man, Like, I had no clue what I was doing. It was

figuring it out as we went. Um we we. We rented a minivan and a Nissan Ultima from Enterprise rent a Car. I was doing the paperwork on that and it was specifically said, you cannot leave the state of New York. And I was like, listen, if you know we're going to California and we're coming back, they'll never know we left. And you know, I'm sure at the time, you know, going through easy passes all through and tolls throughout the country, we had our license plate snapped many times.

But uh, yes, we did that. We rented a minivan and and and uh Nissan Altima. We there was a company in Rochester that I reached out to. I was looking for independent merch companies because they were the cheapest. Again, we paid for own merch. We didn't have a um E merch they all the time. Reached out to them. Uh you know, and these are numbers that I'm probably making up in my head. How okay, how many T

shirts do we have? Do we need? And um would carry them around and garbage bags and we didn't really have that great of a system. It was after the show run over the merch table, because all kids would come by. I'd be I'd be selling merch and shoving the money in our pocket, then sitting down and going through and counting it, putting in Manila and of so that's that was my accounting system was Manila envelopes. I went through before the tour and I wrote, Okay, we're

doing thirty cities. I think it was at the time. I'd write the city, right, and I have an open it would be an empty envelope. We'd settle and it was all cash at the time because we've got zero guarantees right, Logic had no tour history. Nobody wanted to pay us, so we did door deals and uh, you know, if you do well, you can make good money. And

we did. And I take the I'd settle with the promoter, and I take the cash, and I put in the envelope and I, you know, close it and lick it closed like it and I'd write, Okay, Denver, Colorado, two thousand four dollars right. And if somebody needed twenty bucks for food, weed, whatever it was, you have to open it minus twenty and all on a sharp you had to write it. That was. That was the accounting system. And you know, again did a lot of stupid things,

but you've learned as you go. We carry the backpack around. We carry all the Manila envelopes with cash in one backpack, leave it unattended in in the in the green room, and walk around the venue just the backpacks in there. Probably at one point probably had forty or five thousand dollars cash in it. Um. Yeah, it's very silly. So how did you get people to come to the show? That was it? Using his socials? Hey, we announced the tour, oh man, I mean we promoted the ship out of

it because you had to. Um, we announced the tour. We did a tour poster with the city's We're coming here and constantly promoted it on his social media. Um, the twitted really well. I think we probably sold out. And how many people did you? We did v I P as well? People were paying for v I P, which is like, this is crazy just to meet him, take a photo and snake his hand. How much was v I P? Man, I don't know. Everything was cheap.

We were selling tickets with twelve dollars to the show general mission, so I'm sure VP was probably twenty five bucks. And and again we didn't care about the money. It was listen, I want to make a statement. We want to sell it. Build a story. That was part of it. We didn't like. It was literally, yeah, we don't care if we make money. I remember having conversations with the agent saying, what's the cheapest we could sell tickets for Let's do that. That was it? Okay? How many people

were part of your entourage? Very small at the time, probably five for six, right, we had me. I did a little bit of it, and I was like this, I'm not I can't do this whole thing. I gotta you know, it's a little It was a lot for me because I had to work and I get stressed out that you know, we're driving the middle and I were all over the place. Um, probably five or six people. Right. A video guy that the director were working with came on the road film content that was wall was about right.

We we put out things at the time they were called just Another Days, um episodes, and what they were was just behind the scenes of him on the road and what his life was like and what and the performance was what he would wrap the background track. Yeah, yes, I was, yes, UM for one of my early clients, I was a DJ because I did I just what I did, right, So I when I say DJ, I had my laptop and I had iTunes and it was the instrumental and I used the space bar to play

and stop. Um. So it was it was a lot of that. Uh. And yeah it was simple as as as simple as we can make it. And so you come back from the tour, it was success. Everybody's worn out and where do you go from there? Another mixtape? Keep going, def jam hands off please? Okay? Then after the mixtape, I think we did too. I think we did. We did one more after we signed, which the concept of that to def jam was was ludicrous, right, hands off,

you just gave us a nice advanced check. We're we're doing another mixtape that we're gonna put out for free. Um and we did that. We built it even bigger because I was like, you know what, when we do his debut album, I wanted to be a big thing, and I wanted to sell a hundred thousand albums first week, and I knew we could do it. So that was the goal. Okay, So when did the first album come out two thousand four or how many tours had there

been at that point? Uh? We had sold and I remember because there was things that we'd use to write to grab people's attention as part of the story. We had sold a hundred and fifty thousand tickets worldwide at that point without without selling a single song. Yes, so you also toured toward Europe. Wow. Okay, so you finally put out the first album. You want to sell a hundred thousand comblems? Correct? You told me that the label

didn't agree or believe you. Correct? And let me let me preface this with I love Deaf Jam to death. They are we would not be here without them. There phenomenal partner and and a lot of looking back was a lot was my fault. Um. I felt, I can say, hey, hands off, we'll call you in a year when we're ready. Um, that's a mistake. You want to keep them engaged, you want to keep them motivated, you want them to follow the story. I didn't do any of that. UM. I

was very much like, listen, we're doing this ourselves. We got it, this independent mentality. Um. And then all of a sudden, I felt, okay, it's time to hand in our debut album. Let's go. Mistake. UM. They we had no in their mind, no data or analytics to show that we could sell hundred thousand albums. My thing was, and I remember talking to the head of sales at the time, My thing was, Dude, we sold a hundred and fifty thousand tickets worldwide, and tickets are more expensive

than what we're selling this album for. We did probably at that point a couple of hundred thousand dollars in merch sales. UM, like, listen, if they're spending money like that on him and his brand is to me, seeing an artist live is the ultimate test to a base. I think it is the It is the most important barometer of where an artist is at. Can you sell

tickets and if so, how many can you sell? It is the ultimate thing, right, We're all living in our lives with all distractions and to go to a show, to go to a live show, that what what it takes behind that if you really break down a ticket sale, whether you know you're an older demo fan base, those parents, the parents are getting babysitters, they might be taking off work, they may be tired at work the next day because they were out later the trains, they have to take

their the transportation, whatever, and spending their hard earned dollars on it. Um so so so that to me was the most it still is the most important thing. Can you sell tickets? Okay? So you disappear for you you come back so that you can sell a hundred thousand albums and they say, no, you can't. There's nothing that we have that data that we look at to show us that you can sell a hundred thousand albums. And at the time physical physical album sales were still very important,

not very important and important. Um and that game is expensive, right. Whatever you don't sell in physical retail, you have to buy back. So they try to be as exact as they possibly can. At the time, I'm in there. I'm twenty years old, kicking and screaming that we're gonna saw a hundred thousand records the first week, which is an incredibly audacious number. We didn't have any sales history. We hadn't sold a song, so they're looking at me like I had two heads, um and it was a battle.

It was it was It was comedy that they ultimately make and what happened not a lot. They that if we if in again, and they might disagree. I don't know if if we had been shipped properly, he would have sold well over a hundred thousand allums. We sold seventy five thousand albums. I think they only had printed thirteen or fourteen thousand physical copies in the United States. Okay, so that's the first week you did. And then what did they say? You know, what was great about it

is and where our relationship really grew. I think they were they were not afraid to say, listen, we didn't understand this right. And again, looking back, it was a very disruptive time in the business. Right you had people like Logic and artists like Logic that we're building this thing on the internet didn't exist in the history of music there nothing like that existed, and you know, I don't. I don't blame them, I don't. It was a very weird thing to look back at and what we were doing,

what a handful of artists were doing. So you sell seventy thousand albums, and what's the march forward from there? Keep buildings, let's move let's move to uh, let's move to album number two. It was consistency. Let's tour off it first of all, right, so first your tour and what kind of buildings are you doing? Then we were doing Man, it gets a little blurry at this point, I think we had probably sold in New York. I think we're doing twelve tickets probably like an Irving Plaza

before before the album came out. Um, maybe even more than that, almost two thousand tickets before them came out. So at that point, I'm probably doing three thousand cap rooms majority of the major cities. Um, that's a lot of tickets. Yeah, because we had built it early, we started. You know what's crazy is you know where logics at from. He's gonna be doing arenas this summer sum arenas. We started at three d cap rooms, So it's it's kind of crazy and we didn't skip a step. I think

that was very important. Um, it was it was we we sell a room or tour and we'd scale what's the next what's the next jump after that? Okay, what's the next jump after that? And we did it, you know, step by step. So how long until the second album? A year? I think we we try to stay consistent almost a year in between, right, and in between your working the first record, your tours? What are the goals for the second record? Well over a hundred thousand? Um,

what do we do? I don't even know we did? Okay? In this story? Is it just keep going up? We Are there any disappointments? Um, there's always disappointments. I mean, you know, when you're building something thing and you're in it, it takes a while to to build, right. I think you have to be focused and you know, really stay focused on what the end goal is. And if you do that, I think you can get through a lot

of the bumps in the road. I'll call it. Now as you're gaining traction, he's selling these number of records, you're wet behind the years. Anybody come along and try to steal your act? I'm sure, not that I know of, but I'm sure, I'm sure, and I think that's where it's important finding you know, clients are artists that that you can trust and work with, I think, and again that's all intuition for me, right, you know, my two guys are their family to me at this point, Logic

and John Belling their family. Just I mean, I mean at Logic's wedding, I was the best man. It's a family. So the second album comes out in two thousand fourteen, you say, yeah, I think it was okay, and what happens after I'm sorry, yeah, I was fifteen was incredible to story was the name of the OA comes out and it's continuing to build. It's continuing to build. We grow everything. We our sales goals at the time whatever

they were. Um, we sold a lot of albums. I think we ended up having it was top five debut, uh maybe the number one hip hop and we ended up getting a number two or three on top two. Um scale touring, go bigger. We did that. My only goal going to an album, right, and it was from day one, was was double the fan base, double the touring. It's all I cared about to this day. That's all I care about because if you do that, everything that's

gonna take care of yourself. And at this point in time, after the second album comes out and he's going on the road, are you putting any money in your pocket? I'm sure at that point, yeah, right. I think as it got bigger, I think we all were. That was you know, that was the biggest revenue for us. Was was live, live shows, touring, Okay, and so it still is.

Go through the second second album cycle, which leaves us where yeah, maybe maybe four thousand cab rooms at that point we did again, double the fan base, double the touring. We did it um. And then going into going into his his third album, same goal, same thing. It was consistency and momentum. We didn't want to take a lot of time off. I think that was also looking and and and that's all I do. I just try to understand the current state of the music business and where

things are at, where people's attentions are. And again, you know, we don't have six hours, but you go in the details of it, um, all the different things that happened throughout this that journey so far, going into two albums, right from four mix tapes of two albums. You know,

you have different forms of social media coming out. Instagram popped out, Snapchat popped out, and it was identifying those things, okay, like logics in my in my humble opinion, and I think Snapchat had told usus he's one of the first artists ever on on Snapchat and was building a Snapchat following was because I was watching what young kids were using. I'd watched my little sister, what are you what are you using? What is that right? And try and understand

and figure it out. And Okay, if that's where attention is, that's where I want my artist to be. And now you're at the third album, correct, So how does that album come together? Um? Really? Well? Uh, you know, I think he was more confident and and um, he wanted to make an album that was personal to him. I think he's always done that. I think it's been at

the foundation of how he writes music. UM, and talk about some of the struggles and personal stuff that he was dealing with, whether that's you know, anxiety at the time. I think was was was um problematic in his life, So he made an album about that. It was about being human. I think was was the core of it, okay, and these albums are made where this one last one.

At this point he had built a studio in his in his house, he had a guesthouse, UM and he wanted to convert the basement of the guesthouse into a studio, which he did that. He made almost this entire last album and in that and that's that's the producer. He has an in house guy that he's been using since the mixtape days. He met at the University of Maryland at a beat battle. The kid's name is six, incredibly talented.

We were working with him from Mixed Hip one so two thousands, so there's no outside forces, No big names come in, very little, I think throughout the time we were doing sessions and figuring it out, and it's who you really vibe with, and you have to understand each other's brains creatively, and that's a difficult thing to do with a lot of people. UM and Logic has been with Six. I think he executive produced this last album.

Um And does a lot with him. We'd bring in different musicians and instrument players and things like that that Logic met throughout the time. I think No Idea was very kind. Um he signed us when he was at def Jam to to open his world to us. So Logic met a lot of people throughout that process too that he still works with. So how does one come together? Um, one eight hundred comes together in a very natural way. He just he made the song. He sent it to me. Yeah,

and and I was like, ship, this is special right. Um. At the time, he didn't think anything of it. He just made the song, sent it to me. And it was as as the processs how he works, he'll if not there in the studio and he'll just send me music as it comes to go. Hey made this last night, call me right that simple and that was one of the tracks that he made. And he said call me, but did you know I did? He'll tell you I did. I did. Okay, I'm gonna this is really gonna date me.

But I was talking to Al Cooper had a record come to gold Sounds of the South, and he signed Leonard Skinner the first album just come out with Freebird, and he got a call from I think it was Ronnie van ziand Jacksonville. Al was living in a leant at the time and he says, we have a new song. We gotta record and they came up and they recorded sweet Home Alabama. Okay, And the record didn't come out for a year. And I asked cal I go, did you know it was a hand? He goes it was

sweet Home Alabama. So the question is, did you have that same feeling? Okay, this is the breakthrough track. This is gonna make the difference. I don't know if I looked at a breakthrough, I said, this is a big there's a big record. Um I did, and and it was a lot of It was kind of having conversations with him that to get him to agree with me, right, I don't think he he keme on it's this third album.

He never had a hit record at that point. Um And you know, I was having conversations, but I think this could be this could be big. But it wasn't because of the song and and and there was there's no no brainer, right, um and and I think we wanted to be incredibly genuine about it, which was probably stacking the odds against us. The title of the song is is the Suicide Prevention Lifeline Phone Number? Which is

very which is not typical. Right. You don't see songs that are um and and doing certain things like that one of the first standout lyrics in the first thirty seconds of the songs I Want to Die Today. I don't think Top forty radio particularly likes that, um. But it was one of the situations where you know, real genuine music, just one is what happened? Okay, So you go to the label and you do they immediately pick

up on the track. Yeah. I think I identified it to them way later, right after we sent them all the music, because he probably made it in the middle of the album process, maybe towards the end of it, and then when we and all the music, it was just having conversations, Hey, this song. I think the song is special. I think the song is big um, and they believe as well. They they bought in and how

did you get the guest vocal um from Alesia? And yeah, I think I think the song is a story, right, it's and we're talking about having a female vocalist and I love Leslie. I try to get him to work with Leslie in the past. So I threw that out there and he was like, yo, I love that. I think I reached out to put them in touch and they got in touch. And then at the time I think one of his friends had put him on to Khalid, and I think he reached out to Kaled and and

that came together. I think they Kalid went to his house and cut it at his studio. Okay, so let's go a little slower. The album comes out exactly when May fifth, And what is the first track they're working? Uh? Was one eight hundred that came out in April. It was the last song we dropped before the album came out a week prior. Okay, So what happens with the because it seems to me the track doesn't really blow up until the v M as correct, So what happened

between the end of April and August? Um, we didn't impact immediately, right. We wanted the story. You wanted the number one album. That was a big goal for us. We wanted to sell over two hundred thousand albums. That was another big goal for US, UM, which isn't easy to do. UM and we we I think we two hundred and fifty thousand we sold the first week. UM. We're very happy about that he has number one album.

UM is part of a story and it's telling that that story and make well the reason I asked irrelevant of your specific track. We live in an era where there's so much product that term that it's hard to get noticed. And it used to be if something you know, I used this track by Rag and bow Man Human it was number one all over the world except in America. Okay, the track didn't change, but it didn't make it in America. So prior to one could say in the Internet, if

something was phenomenal, creed would rise to the top. I don't believe that anymore. There's just too many things out there. So you have a track that is a stone cold smash, what is the process of trying to have it get noticed? Hacking culture, I think you have to do things to cut through and to stand out. Um, I agree, I think there is there is a lot of uh, you know, over saturation today. I think there's a somebody said this so I can't I don't. I don't know if it's

completely accurate. There's a hundred and fifty thousand songs being uploaded Spotify in a seven day week, which is which is absurd absurd um. But again, it's how you look at things, right. I try to look at it from an optimistic perspective. There is what the consumption is at all time high, is how I look at things, um, And music consumption is at all time I think every day that goes by tomorrow will be the music consumption will probably be at the highest point in in the

history of the world. UM. And I think as things continue to grow, that's going to continue to happen every day it's going to grow. UM. So it's looking at it from that perspective. And how do you cut through doing certain things like our VMA performance? Right? How do we let's go before that though, because the VMA was really a huge spike and turned it all, you know, or put poor gasoline on the fire. You have a track? Do you sit at deaf jam and say what playlists

are we gonna get on? How we gonna work this? Yeah? I mean that's that's that's absolutely part of it. I think playlists is essential. Again, it's where the attention is. So having relationships with the digital the DSPs, Apple and Spotify and and you know, making sure they're engaged and they understand there's records coming. And now do you personally go to Spotify and Apple? I do. I have great relationship and you'll say, what we have new music and

we have this particular song, is we're really excited about. Okay, since the song ended up being gigantic when you played it for them, did they understand it? Yeah? I think they did. And it was also making sure they understood in the narrative of the entire album and how things fit in and and you know, we weren't just focused on one song during the initial rollout, I think post album or least, Yeah, let's let's move forward and let's focus on this one track because we think it's special

UM and has potential, but it was for us. He's logics and album artists. He's always been that. UM Again, not having a hit and selling you know, two hundred and fifty thousand albums first week, you're an album artist. So what did they say that we're going to do for you? Um? You know, you get playlists, but there's more to that's about building the story and there's there's little things that you can do. I think looking back at that, UM, there was probably two things that stand

out to me. And timing is very important as well. Right was the music video when we held onto it for a long time, UM, because we're looking, we're waiting for when we needed something to spike it, and that did absolutely phenomenal. I think the song had been working. And again you learn things as you go. I think music videos are more important, important for international markets than they are in new in the US. UM and we knew that. And why do you think, well, especially I don't.

I don't know if I can answer it. I think in Latin America, YouTube is everything. I think that's how they can see music. That's why videos do do really well. I mean, look at Desposito right very quickly became the most viewed music video in YouTube history. UM. I would attribute out a lot to the Latin American audience, you know, So we held onto that when we decided to release it. We had already been charting, right if you even focus on the Spotify chart, because that's something I look at

every day. We had been charting on the Spotify chart in the US. This is the Spotify top correct, and had not globally. The twenty four hours after releasing a video we jumped onto the global charts. Yeah, and then it's twenty four hours so and then to right now, Well, no, I was gonna ask a number of views, but really, Stratos, I'm church triple digit millions, but we don't remember what it was then, Okay, so how do you cook up

the v M A performance conversation with logic? What's his inspiration? Where's your head at? Um? Let's go back one step. How do you actually get on the show? To begin with? I I credit um Steve Bartle's and gave to Sorio. So Steve was at the time the CEO of def Jam and gave still is he runs pr over there. They had great relationship with MTV and and hounded hounded them about it. Hounded them because the track wasn't a hit at the time, and at the time it was building.

It was building, but they were just saying put them on. They weren't saying we're going to do this whole production number. Correct, we didn't even We just wanted to get an offer, perform and then we'll get into the details of that UM at the time. So then they did that, and they did an amazing job at getting us on the show, and then I I built a relationship with with them now that I have right and that's a beautiful part about management. UM. But yeah, I credit I credit Stephen

Gabe with that. Okay, then how did you decide to have the ultimate performance you did. Logic was in Nashville rehearsing for tour. We had just got the offer, and I, you know, I I certainly wanted to make it special. I know Logic was going to too. I jumped on a plane, I went to Nashville to have dinner with him so we could talk out what what his inspiration was and put a performance together. And we did it

at that dinner, I think, okay, and MTV immediately said five. Yeah, I mean we were fingers crossed going to remember and reason with the Nashville because like twenty four or forty eight hours later, I had a production call with them and we had to pitch what our idea was, um, you know, and and it was very ambitious. We wanted we just wanted to be genuine as possible with this song.

And and for those people, I can't believe that anybody wouldn't have seen it at this point in time, but assuming they haven't walked through what the performance was, it was, you know, we incorporated what what we're calling and we've learned as their cult survivors, right, either people who were were were have attempted suicide and and and survived or unfortunately lost loved ones to to to suicide. Um. We

had them as extras. I guess you could say in the performance that we were being revealed at certain moments of the song. UM. And they had T shirts on right where where the messaging on them was you are not alone and letting them know, UM that that you know, if you're struggling with that and you're in a really low pleasure, not alone, and there's people you can talk to, and there's people, um that are here to help. And

that's what the song is about. So we wanted them incorporated and to make sure they were real people, right, um, and not actors or anything is silly like that. Um. And I think one of the also the special things about it was so at the time the speech that Logic gave at the at the end of the song was never part of It wasn't part of the conversation. I was in l A at the time because I had flown out here for the performance, and it was probably forty eight hours before Logic was on tour, so

he basically we basically ended the tour. He flew in to do the performance. He got here three in the morning the night before and he called me probably four hours before. I was in a dinner out here, I remember it. I stepped out. I was like, what's going on? He goes, dude, I wrote something and I need to say it. And I said, okay, how long is it? I said a minute? You need to get me another minute. Now in television that's like an hour, it's like a day.

And we're forty eight hours before the show and I call I called Bruce who who was putting on the show, and was like, I gotta make this happen, and and and and and pitched him on it, and I think pushed him into it and we we got an extra minute out of it. So before it happens, I know from talking to you before it happens, you knew this was gonna be a transformative moment. You hope, because what I see you to three days before, I probably saw you the same day or day after Logic called me. Um,

I would hope. I would hope, right, And that's all you can do. You can you can you can bet on things and and think, but you know, I think the stars have to align and they did for for that. What was it like being at the actual performance? It was special. I was backstage, UM watching on a little TV UM, and I obviously heard the live audio and the way I the way I knew right was I heard the we're at the forum. I think I heard

the arena erupt And that's when you know, right. So, especially at a show like that, when when people stand up, same thing happened to him at the Grammys is when I, let's say, I want to get to that eventually. So is the reaction is the gasoline on the fire media?

Because yes, we shot to number one in the Spotify US chart UM and iTunes probably top five by the next morning, and it seemed like sustained for months, correct And and that gave that gave I think the promo people at def Jam, who did such an amazing job breaking this record at at Rhythm and Top forty Radio, I think it gave them all the ammunition they needed to take it to the next level at at radio. And then how do you end up on the Grammys? UM?

You know something we wanted? It started with the denominations, UM, and then pushing and hoping that we get a call for for a performance. Did you get any bounce from that that's quantifiable? UM? I did, and and like I said, I'm a I'm a I'm a dad, a nerd right in a weirdo. So so I don't know if it's the next Monday morning or it was a Tuesday morning after the Grammys when you like, I think Spotify tchart

might be twenty five hours delayed or whatever. The first thing I did, right, I woke up and I need to look literally first, it was probably in the morning. And iTunes we had a three jump. That's big. It's really big, right, I think a lot of the songs that had performances at night had that big of a jump um on Spotify and Apple zero change. It's A'm like, all right, how do how do I? What does that mean? That's all I try and do, right, figure it out and and learn from it. What does that mean? And

this is my and it's funny. I had, you know, a group chat text message with everybody who works for VISI name music group and works with me. And I started a conversation, uh eight thirty in the morning. I said, Hey, guys, I'm looking at something. It's really interesting. Let's talk it out. Le' figure it out. When I get into the office. And what I attributed to is I said, there's a three increase in the song, and I got that number from def jam, I think, and you know, zero from what

it seems like on the streaming services. So what I'm attribute is the demographic, right, this is and again this is me just making my best judgment on it. And this is how it's interesting to me because I learned and again I'm a weirdo like they ship is legitimately interesting to me. I think the probably older demo who who who watches the Grammys tends to use iTunes a little bit more right and purchase song and that song, that performance, that song may have been brand new to

that viewer. They may have not heard that song ever, right, And I think the younger demo who tends to lean more on streaming services, was already uber familiar, probably like sick of this song at this point and didn't need to react because they knew the song already, so they didn't go and rush and stream it. That's my that's my best guests on on why you saw such a difference between the streaming services and that sustain There never was a bump on streaming, and there wasn't a bump

on YouTube either, I didn't look at YouTube. That's a good question. Okay, So what's next for Logic? What's next for Logic? Another project and and and a tour? Okay, how do you feel having had this incredible success? Is that pressure to come up with the track to follow up? Not at all? Not at all, double double the fan base, double a touring, everything else, to take care of yourself. And you don't think he feels the pressure, not at all. Okay, So let's let's go down some of the landscape here.

You mentioned streaming versus I tunes. Let's start with something a little bit different at this point in time, with someone like Logic and with the demo that you appeal to. How important is terrestrial radio? In my opinion again this is I think it's very important. Okay, So do you think again? I again, coming from a perspective, I only care about attention. Where's the attention? Well, I'm talking, I'm

weighing things out, okay, because what do we know. We know that Best Boy said they're gonna stop selling CDs, so it's gonna be hard to even find a CD have to order Amazon. We know that iTunes sales of tracks is down, and streaming is up. We know that if we look at the Spotify Top fifty in America,

it's mostly hip hop, so we're seeing trends. So I'm asking you where do you believe, especially since you're the act represent is speaking to a younger demo, certainly under the age of where do you think it's all going? Likely likely towards a streaming world. Is where it's going? Um, you know, and and I to me, it's it's I think it's easier for people like I think streaming killed music.

Pirating You don't really don't pirate music, And I agree, it's too much time and I can't imagine doing it because if you if if you create less of because obviously we've all pired of music. Whether you want to write or not, you have time. You don't know what you're getting when you click that download link, right, Am I downloading some some bullshit virus that is going to screw up my my computer or whatever? Um, I think streaming made it easier for the consumer, so it won't

that simple. I guess what I'm saying because you brought up the issue of the bounce on iTunes is opposed to Spotify. What we know is if someone who's Drake or The Weekend puts out new music and immediately goes to the top of the Spotify chart, whereas radio. I mean, this is a big controversy in the UK edge they're changing the Shark charts because Ed Shearon put out a record and like all of his wrecked tracks were at the top of the chick I think I think radio

happens a little bit, there's lag there. I think streaming is immediate and and then when things react there then it it'll happen at radio. It doesn't make that audience any less important. But do you think that audience is stable, increasing, decreasing or what at at radio? Probably stable? You really think? So? You think that your audience, which certainly lives on the Internet, whether it be on a handtel, the desktop or whatever,

you believe that they're still listening to terrestrial radio. I don't. I think the younger demographic tends to lean more towards streaming, um, you know, and and and the older demo is on terresto radio. Okay, So if I were to pull up your album Logics album, obviously one eight suicide prevention song has got you know, a gazillion streams the to the album. Are the tracks consistent in the number of streams they

have or do they vary? The tracks are consistent, I think one hundred outlier, but there's a handful of tracks and there I think on Spotify Loan that over a hundred million streams. So you believe people are listening to the album as an album, absolutely, I mean the numbers show that, right. I think I think all this the way I look at it at a single, right, I think it's just a gateway drug to that artist and to pull them into to that world and and and

dive in. And I think that's well, there's a story as we sit here in the story in the Well Street Journal, I believe today talking about Cardi B. Who is you know, maybe the biggest act of the last six months doesn't even have an album, right, So then you say, well, you is it that you're you're um? Is it that logic has got an extended message that his audience wants. Yeah, because I think they're they're bought in.

I think there's a really big base there and I think they they follow his narrative right and and to the Cardi point there, there's more than one way to win. That's one thing I learned more than anything. Um, I think you have to adapt and pivot based on the artist, right.

I think I've been very fortunate to work with Lodging John who who are very, very, very talented songwriters, and they write from from their narrative, in their perspective on how they view the world and things they went through. I think that's what's helped us for both of them build two really strong bases, is that there's something there that a fan can attach onto that story, that narrative, and they can relate. I think relatability is the most

important thing. I think that's that's really what a die hard fan is, feeling like there's some sort of personal connection between you and that artist. That's the zeitgeist. I couldn't agree more. And that's why one of the reasons so much of today's pop music in the last twelve months has failed. It's failed to achieve that. Okay, you own a house, do I know where? Do you live in Manhattan? So you rented apartment? I do? Okay, do

you in a relationship currently? Now? Okay, theoretically if you found uh the right person, do you have enough time for that? Absolutely? You make time for it's important. Okay, Well, some people are dedicated to their work. So how many people are working for your organization now? Currently? Total? Three? Okay, what do you want? I want to keep it this size? You want to grow, We're gonna scale. I think it's inevitable. It's a goal mine. Um, absolutely, And you have not

You have such success with logic. Do people come to you to manage as Yeah? I think so. Um. You know, whether whether I have the time to kind of look at everything or not it you know, I think that's the That's what matters. I think, you know. For me, it's all gut still right. I just need something. I need to feel that thing and be like, Okay, you've had a lot of experience since two thousand nine, but in this business there are people who have much more

experience than you. And it's also a business. I don't care despite any kind of college program, Uh, you really can only learn by doing. I couldn't agree with that more. I think if you want to work in the music business, and this is very I'm gonna make it, don't go to college. Don't go to college at all. Don't go to college at all. You cannot learn this business in a textbook period. Okay, I agree with that. Do you believe your college experience paid any dividends in your life

forgetting the music business? Or maybe intersecting with that, would you say college itself was no of no benefit to you from zero. I have a major issue with with the higher education in this contract. Well, I'm fascinated. What is it? Um, it's a business, is what is the problem with it? You're charging you cannot put a price on education. I don't know how you do that. I don't I don't understand the concept of it. And I was.

I was the squeaky wheel and likely pain in the ass every college I went to, all four of them, where I had major issues with the way things were and couldn't really get real answers on a lot of this stuff. Um. Even even you know, at at at a Delphi, I remember I had there was banners on the campus about like I think it was some sort of entrepreneurship kind of having kids go out and do it themselves, which is exactly what I was doing. Um. And they're saying, you know, they're here to help you.

And remember having all conversations with with professors at the time Hey, I'm doing I'm the manager. I'm doing this at the time because again at the time when I was starting, I borrow my dad's car, pick up my artists, and we drive to a show. That's how we did it right in My commission would be a hundred and fifty dollars probably, And I said, listen, you know, is there anywhere I could take the exam earlier figure it out a way around it. No, And it was I

ran into that over and over and over again. And even you know, I was a business major, having to take art classes my senior year in order to graduate, I took. I had to had no choice. Handbuilding with Clay. I would literally go to and and do pottery and and I would fight my advisor and and ask her how is this benefiting me as a businessman? Um? And she couldn't really answer it. It was it was simply because they wanted money from the credits. Those credits cast

the same as managerial finance Sam Price. Okay, I can play with Clay for free. Okay, the uh the management courses you took help you at all? No, I don't think so, okay. So I was half checked in, half checked out. I understand. I mean, you know, it's like they have these college courses in entrepreneurship, entrepreneurs are born. I don't. I don't think you can teach somebody to be an entrepreneur. I think I agree with that. I think it's a lot of it is d NA, right.

I think as I've gotten older and become more self aware, I recognized that that it was just it was partially who I was, and it just took me a long time to figure it out, I think. But it is fascinating because you know, when you're first on your first

club tour, most people are not interested. But as you have success, it's like when you make a deal for a tour, there are people who've been doing this for forty years who obviously no more than you and they and there's nowhere to learn that other than the school of hard knocks. And then many people are worried that you know, their act is gonna go with someone more experienced.

You haven't had that. But it's you ever, I mean you mentioned a couple of times during the podcast you ever say you know, God it if I knew then what I know now, absolutely, But you you can't. You can't know back then what you know now, it's not how life works. And I think i'm I'm a much better manager today for all of the things that I learned by trial and error and and and learning as I went right. You you you can look back and go, shit, I made the right decision, or oh shit, I made

the wrong decision. I'm I'm grateful and unfortunate. I didn't make any wrong decisions that were career threatening or ruining to to to my artists. So so before we started the podcast, you were saying you're very bullish on music, very bullish on the scene. Could you go on a little bit about that. I think it's I think it's the most exciting time to be in the business literally right, because if, if, if you can pivot and and and adapt right, I think a lot of people spend time

and energy complaining about the current state of the music business. Um, it's funny. I was in the studio back in New York with John the other day and we're having this We just talked about the business conversation. A lot of people get frustrated. All we're living in a singles culture, so what so what like then adapt and and and do that right? Rather than then I wish the business

was like but it's not right. And I think if you can do that and you can adapt quickly, and you have an artist who can do that as well, you're you're really gonna win. And that's what that's what's exciting about it to me, because I think I'm learning every day. Um again, having an artist performed at the Grammys and then the next morning looking at dad, I trying to figure out, Okay, what did that do and

let's learn from it? And and um, you know, having a group conversation with you know, everyone who works with me and trying to figure it out. Um, that to me is what's exciting. And do you have a lot of people who you're contemporaries who you communicate with? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I've as I've been very lucky to make some amazing, hopefully lifelong friends in the business. I mean, that's just okay. And the other thing is you're you live in New York, but you're out here in l A. You see it

come on a regular basis, take meetings. Who you what kind of people are you meeting with? Label people I've I've you know, it's just part of networking in the business, whether it's you know, Live Nation or a g because we're touring. Um, different agents are agents. Logic agents are based out here, John's are as well. I think last

year I spent close to sixty days out here. Okay, So for those people who literally know nothing and don't have your personality, you just say I'm gonna go to l A. You make meetings in advance, you say let's go to lunch. What do you do? Right? We we were on email about a week and a half ago. Right, So I'm figuring my schedule out and and um schedule lunches, dinners, breakfast. Wherever I can get in front of people, I'll do it.

I like to be busy. I think downtime is I hate it, especially when I'm traveling, right, because then you feel like you're wasting your time. I hung with I hung with Logic. He lives out here. I was with him in the past two nights, was at his house. So what's he up to these days? Working on music? He's never not working. So and he's now married. Yeah, he's been married two years. Um, he's a challenge when you're an artist, but everybody tries and he's uh, he's

working on music. We're getting ready for something and a tour hopefully. Okay, So at the end of the day, forty years from now, any big goals, anything you've really wanted to accomplish, No, I said, I said small goals. I said, year goals. Um with with the company, will sit down and we'll we'll set goals. What do we want to accomplish this year? And again it's one of

the it's part of my thesis. If you do that every year, you're you're you're gonna win in the end, right, double the bass, double the touring, and if you focus on that, things are gonna happen. Okay, just want to go back to chapter because he said, you know they're bumps in the road. The goal is to double. Let's assume you start going down the path and it's not going in the right direction. What do you do? Pivot? That's all you can do. Right, Well, I see this

is an audio podcast. You can't see the big smile on his face. But it's very different from the baby Blue mentality, which they'll double down on what they're already doing. The concept of pivot, which really the term comes as a result of pivoting in the tech business too many people. If it's not working, It's like you know, I tell people all the time, if you're putting up on music, you're not getting a reaction. Correct and assuming you're you're not,

you're unhappy with that. You gotta pivot. But that's a beautiful thing. I think, because I was having this conversation recently with somebody, I think we're living through There's no such thing anymore in my mind as a bad album or bad record ruining your career like it used to write. I think if you look at the nineties and if you let's say, the sophomore slump was a thing, I don't know if that exists anymore. You're always as good

as your last at bat right. And I'm not here to name artists, but there's some some major artists I think in the past year, um male and female pop artists right that can can or have been selling out arenas in some stadiums, that came out with an album that didn't do well well. Lady Gaga, right, Lady Gaga's last album is basically as Stiff. She was out with

Tony Bennett and then she not alone. It's kind of amazing, but you look so you're good at your last a bat so so if if if that artist were to come with a hit record tomorrow, everybody forgets about about the flow. It's that that's what's cool about what we're living through. I think, okay, But let's the other thing

is when you've got a choice in this matter. There used to be, you know, when the business became institutionalized in the seventies and eighties, there'll be you know, a three to five single process and the album would come out every three years. You look at Drake, He's putting out multiple projects per year. So I think you also have the ability he had Biber. Biber experimented for all

of a sudden he had his huge comeback. So I think you also have to say I have the tools that if something is not working, I could come back up to back correct, whereas if you wait three to five years. If you look at the Justin Timberlake situation, which is fascinating because everyone seems to agree that the album is a disappointment, which is also a difference because

a lot of times, you know, the spin goes otherwise. Um, he waited so long, I believe that he he were to put out new music within a year, this project would be forgotten. Certainly live business phenomenal. But if he waits three to five years, you know, let's let's go one step. You know, Kesha was off the market for a long time and she came back. It was very successful. What's your analysis of that? It was genuine She had gone through some some from what I understand, some horrible

things and she wrote about it. That's I mean, that's that's you literally believe it's the music and the message she was sending. Absolutely. I think it's always that if you can make something that connects or resonates with people, you're gonna win. And that's again, that's what's exciting. So you can you know, you say, oh, we're in a we're in a it's too much consumption and it's oversaturated. Well yeah, until you cut through and then you're you're

loving it, right, So it's it's about perspective. And again you can flop, but keep it moving. Don't don't wait three years and cry about it. Keep it moving. Okay, And certainly on street being services, both the two biggest in America, Apple and Spotify hip hop dominates. Do you anticipate that will continue to be the case, because I think it's clearly connecting in culture. I think, you know, and it dominates on those services because that's where the

audience is. I think it's the younger demo that use those that use those services, and and that's what they're listening to, right, I think country might be they those listeners may consume music a little bit differently, the same with rock and and and and even even pop. I think the consumer the same pop consumer. What's funny hip hop is pop now that's all it is. It's of course, but it's so dominant. I mean, on some level, we have a landscape with no coherence. Everything is its own vertical.

But if you look at hip hop is pop. But there's never been a sound that's been this dominant. But look at what Look what's common in hip hop. The consistency at which these artists drop music. That's why they're winning because they just let's put out two projects a year, three projects a year. He talked about Drake. He's done that now for three or four years in a row. There is no coincidence. Kendrick Lamar, right, it's no coincidence

to me. He drops his album two weeks before Logics seen he just put out another album, right, the Black Panther sound, Right. I mean it's consistency, it's it's it's how how important the socials as opposed to the music itself. To me, that situational depending on the artist. Right, If you want to be public facing and you want to have a narrative with your fan base or with the public,

then it's important. And if you don't, it's not. Well let's just assume, I mean forgetting phenomena like if you do not have socials and the songs are very good, can you make it there? There's there's a there's a million examples of that, and they call Kendrick Lamar, Frank Ocean. How much of being part of the scene important? Again, I think it depends on the artist. I think you can be a part of the scene if you want to and you want to be you know, out in it,

and some don't. We I mean like other people guessing on your your track, you guesting on their tracks such that people would serve the net and become aware of what you're doing. I think hip hop's winning because they get it right. What what guest features are? It's cross promotion, all right? Let me let me get in front of your base, you get in front of mine. That's cross promotion, that's business, one on one, right, Um, not saying that they're looking at it like that. I just think that's

what's happening. Well, we could go out for hours here. Is there anything you specifically want to say before we go? No, I appreciate you having me on. Okay. You know, we get a perspective from someone who's not only the younger generation but very successful with a hit act Logic and another one on the way. And the other thing about it is very optimistic as opposed to the old forts who believe music and the music business has been ruined. Chris, So,

thanks so much for coming on the PUD. That wraps up this episode of the Bob Lefts Podcast with my guest, Visionary Music Group President Chris ru I hope you enjoyed just like I did hearing the story of getting from a Delphi University all the way to the v M a S and the Grammys, managing Jack's like Logic and John Belliam. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. I'm

tune in Apple or your Apple choice. Until next time, I'm Bob left Sets can think of me reas and don't know exactly one must be its out down EA