Chris Lord-Alge

Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsnuts Podcast. My guest today is engineer, mixer producer Chris Lord Algae. I gotta ask, Chris, I remember first seeing your brother's name on the back of Stevie Winwood's Back in the High Life. I say, tom Lord Algae. He's an English cat, So explain, you're a guy from New Jersey. Give us a backstory on the hyphenated name.

Well, that's a pretty good story. My mom who got me started in this business when I was very young. Her stage name was Vivian Lord. So once she got me the job, and once I started getting some credits, I changed my name to Lord Algae as a tip. Had the hat to her because she got me started. So I used her stage name and my last name, and it was actually her sister's real last name was Gloria Lord, so I combined the two and then Tommy

I pushed him into the hot seat. He did well.

When the client came in, I snuck out because he would be like, Chris, can you come and show me this thing? I'm like yeah. I wanted to make sure he won and finished that record because I started it and I just you know, I wanted this was a perfect way to get him started, and my mom was happy that he won the first Grammy.

Okay, just to be clear, growing up going to school, you were Chris Algree, Yes, oh yes, I was. Okay, let's switch gears. We were having a conversation about Dolby. Is there a future for Atmost?

I think there's a future for atmost if people can hear it the way I hear it. As we know. When Surround came in, it was like, oh, we're we going to put these other speakers. So if they could come up with a way where you can have nine to one four, which is, you know, thirteen speakers in your room, or a way to hear that or make it look, you know, not weird with only speakers, I think there's a future because it gives people a different way to listen to music, and it matches the theater thing.

Okay, explain, not everybody's that sophisticated. Explain nine to one four.

Well, nine one four would be uh. I mean that's just the numbers.

So it basically needs thirteen speakers and one subwharp ers, so nine four and one so they can do it with seven. I mean in my room, I have thirteen speakers, so I have left center right, Okay, I have upper left, right, lower left, right, back, left right, bottom left right.

You know, and then very back is surround.

So surround was five speakers, so LCR and then left right surround. Okay, with nine to one four at most, just add four more speakers, okay, yeah, right, yes, and no no, you add four more speakers in the middle to give you upper I'm sorry, eight more speakers in the middle to get upper and mid. And that surrounds you in like a sphere of speakers. So it's almost like the format for movies at most, same same same format. So we've added more points of origin for the audio.

Okay, So when you can get at most on Apple Music and you listen on headphones, can you hear all of that on headphones?

You get a simulation? So Apple has immersed of audio. So by manipulating phase. They're able to assimilate, you know, the atmost experience in headphones, which is convenient, more convenient nine than all these speakers. Is it the same? No, When clients sit in my room dead center, it's our big wow. In the headphones, it's a big hm wow.

Okay, let's go back. We had mono, we moved to stereo in the sixties. In the seventies, there were two competing quad formats, both ultimately failed. In the nineties we had Q sound that failed. Why should this succeed when all the other ones failed?

That's a good question.

I mean, I feel that that this is the biggest push I've seen in technology towards the you know, in audio transformation. So really, and and one thing it does is it makes the labels go into their libraries and dig out these masters and take another look at them.

So yeah, we'll see what happens.

I think the major problem is if the listener can enjoy the experience, okay, then it'll then it'll fail.

Maybe the car maybe that's the best way.

The best place to put it in a fix because you're in a fixed position, so that that might be you know, one of the future ways to have it.

Okay, someone calls you up to mix. Are you doing an outmost mix? For all the records? A few records.

It's now something that is that has to be added. And the main reason is because Apple is promoting this format. When your record comes out, it'll show that you have an atmost version that will put it kind of at the top of the list like new Spatial. You know, new Spatial mixes will show up and then there's your record. So if you don't put it out that most, then you're not up there. So the labels and the bands are really pushing to now have this other format added in addition to just stereo.

Okay, So generally speaking, what are people sending you to mix? They're sending you a pro Tools file with how many tracks? What are you getting on the incoming.

I get their session, a pro Tool session. Sometimes it's organized, sometimes it's a complete disaster. Is it ever right? No, But it's all they send me. So yeah, I get the multi track, I get the original recording. We mix the stereo mixes. Once that's all approved, you know like with Green Day or bon Jovia. Once that's all approved, then we create the atmosphixes.

So you know, it's not the old days of sixteen and twenty four tracks. How many tracks might somebody might send you.

I've had stuff clock in and the high two hundreds, the high three hundreds, and I no matter how big, no matter how big, that boat shows up in, I dock it on forty four feaighters sometimes forty six. If I have to push, I can get it down the forty four forty six channels.

And that's it.

Okay, I come in with two hundred channels. What's the first thing you do?

I go through the song and I find out where all the handoffs are, which means most of the you know, the things that happen is that everything is separate.

Everything is separate.

So you'll have the vocal and the verse that's separate, the b sex or the chorus, they're all separate. If they don't overlap. It's a handoff. Is it usually the same sound?

Yes?

That can easily fold down. How about won there's like forty eight tracks of backgrounds. They can easily fold down to a couple of pairs without even the compromise. So there's there's three things we focus on. A handoff is when literally part A and can go to part B and parts part D on one track and it all works. And then a comp is when you would take like a low, a mid and a high harmony and just make your own blend stereo and that saves a lot,

It is every day, Okay, you say, okaya, forty four faders? Is the goal to get forty four or many fewer? Now?

Forty four is fine because some things I'll you know, because for me, I want to have the drums spread out the most because that's usually the biggest challenges to get them right. So I don't want to make compromises there. But I think, Bob, part of it is that I come from a world of twenty four track, then two twenty four tracks, then a forty eight digch tape machine,

Okay, do you do that yourself or do you have somebody who does that for you before you get involved.

I do it with my assistant.

I usually if I get the session at home, I'll prep it all ready for him and then he'll have it ready for me to make those decisions. So since we've been working together for years now, he knows what decisions I'm going to make, he'll have those ready and I'll fine tune those comps you know, or or edits, and then.

Go from there so we can always go back and redo it.

That's the great thing about protals is that with two twenty four tracks, Hey, you got to make a decision.

Okay, you got all forty four tracks up on the board. What's your next step? Uh?

Well, we'll find out what this. You know, we'll listen to the rough mix. We'll put the cues in, which means, okay, verse one B one, chorus one. Well, look, well, just look how this song was built. Okay, And I'll put the faders up and I'll look for where the problems are and look where the magic is. So most of the time, if I get the rhythm section to sound right and the vocals to sound right, everything else falls in between. So the vocals the most important thing in

Okay, you fix it? Then to what degree do you add EQ in effects? And when.

It's constant?

So I mean EQ and compression is constant, And it's really the vocals get the most comple I should the most EQ, the most editing to get what I call a sound, to get more of an analog sound. If you look back in the in the early days of recording, I mean they built the sound in. They didn't have all these options. Later later it was just let's just turn some knobs and make it balance. Mixing is really about getting a great balance and letting the song breathe.

So yeah, the.

Vocals will get most of the treatment and the drums will be like, Okay, do I need to add samples or not to make it do what I wanted to do, because the drums are always the holy grail to make the record work, and a lot of these recordings are not ideal and you know, and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not precious about any of it. I'm like, oh, we better keep their kick drums sound like no, if it's not working, it's out of here.

So you will literally replace and add drums.

I always, I always have them ready. I always have samples ready to go, and I just seasoned to taste. Sometimes the steak shows up, it's perfect, it's medium, rare, it's got salt and pepper, a little bit of olive oil.

Boom, great. And then there's times where wow, that's unedible.

So I'll just start seasoning it with samples to help it, you know, have the impact and do what I think needs for the song.

Okay, let's go back to the vocals. Are you using the EQ in the board or external EQ?

Well, I have you know, I have all the colors. I have the biggest paint box going, so I have I have EQ compression that starts from the sixties, so plugins I actually created myself, so I'll use a little bit of everything to make it work. So there'll be some plugins in the box getting it started, and then my traditional analog compression in EQ it's to finish it.

Okay. I think most people know what EQ is. Explain compression.

Compression is just dynamic control. So, uh, you know a lot vocals are very dynamics, so you want it. You don't want to eye scraper in a neighborhood a single story houses, so you want to make sure if the song is working and everything's like a single story house, you want to make sure the vocal dynamic range matches the song and matches the energy. If it's an open song,

Will you ever use compression on the overall result?

Yeah?

Oh yeah, that then you have on the whole On the whole mix, it's called the bus. We have a bus compressor, which means the mix bus. Okay, So whatever your mix is going through before you know you print it.

I have a bus compressitors. Uh.

I have a bus compressor, and I have tube eqs. I use Pulltech eqs that are tubes literally from the sixties. That sound to me automatically makes this all work better. It adds a quality of low end and hind you can't get out of a new digital eque. So I used to traditional and it's not much. It's just to top it off. That's always in. So I start with that in. I don't change it. It's that's the setting, and if it feels too much, I pull things back. But that's the set of them. And when it's done,

Okay. So who do you use usually as a mastering engineer.

I've been using Ted Jensen since the eighteen hundreds, kidding Ted Jensen and I go back to nineteen eighty two when I wandered in with a band demo and had to master a band demo for me, and then later on I just you know, started working him and he's just my partner, but he's my partner in audio. I mean, he knows what my sound is and he knows what makes my clients happy.

Now.

The thing with mastering is that as long as the client's happy, it's a win for everyone. But he also understands that I don't want it to really change much.

When I send it.

Just just top it off, which means if I had a bright day or a dull day, just just find the balance where a record will sound the same. That's what a mastering engineers there. This song needs a little more salt. Oh this is too salty. Let's let's let's go back on that.

So okay, just staying on a big topic, analog versus digital. What are your thoughts there? Uh?

Well, analog. Analog is like tinted windows. Okay, you roll the windows up. It's got a vibe. Digital is like clear glass. What goes in comes out with no enhancement. When you record on analog, the transients get held back. It adds a bit of compression because it can you know, it's just tape, So it adds a vibe. It actually fixes things, It makes things better, but it's noisy, and a good engineer can work with that a log That format is pretty much dead here.

Someone really have to pay.

Me extra money to go all analog with something could I do it?

Of course?

But I started out analog and I was so happy when digital came in. For the main reason is that I could create a first generation copy of everything from all the slave reels. So digital's really good because you don't really lose anything when you copy it. And with that a loog you had to really be careful and you had your hands tied you really, I mean the magic you can do now you could never do that.

It was painful.

Okay, you and me both know there's a lot of compromises to get music on a vinyl record. Roll loss all. You know, the Neil starts with the end. Whatever. What do you think about today's vinyl boom?

I am so happy that the boom is happening for want for one reason.

I'll start with the first reason.

It gives the listener something to look at and read and then get a vasion. It feel like he's been transported into that record. Okay, when you looked at a Beatles album, all these records santastic, santanic majesties.

Right.

The album covers are so intense, but you're reading it while you're listening. So let's just start there. It gives gives guys like me a place to see their name. Ah, so someone knows who actually did it, because with streaming, I mean it could be goddamn Captain Kangaroo mixed it. Nobody knows I did it, and sometimes people take your credit. I'm so happy that we have something you could hold in your hand, and whether you played or not, that

Don't use any of that for the vinyl, okay.

And they have to eq it and cut an acetate and do it differently because of like what you said, the low end can make the needle jump.

The high end has to have a high le, a limit or on it.

Use the techniques to use for that. That's what mastering really was, is the magic disc cutter.

Okay, I fully understand when you have analog tapes and you ultimately make a vinyl record, it doesn't quite make sense to me to start with digital and make nyl. You have a very clear sound. You're actually compromising what you have.

I don't think you're actually My opinion on that is that if you take your ninety six K twenty four bit wavefile a right which we all make, and you make an album from it, it makes it sound analogue because of the limiting, because of what you have to do to get it on vinyl, because that little bit of tweaking kind of rounds it off and actually takes the harshness out of it. So I love listening to records at home, and there's just something magic about putting

Ok So you mentioned Asia, any other reference Vinyl.

Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Amazing.

I mean, look, I put on Doobie Brothers, Okay, I put on Beatles, I put on the Rolling Stones, and sometimes with the Stones, Street Fighting Man will sound better on one album and different on another. To the point where we're all having dinner. And I emailed them and said, hey, you know I'm through the past Darkly volume too. It sounds great on there, but I think on Beaker's banquet it sounded all the started and screwed up. So check that out. And he did and said, you are right.

So okay, let's go into gear. So what kind of board do you have in your studio.

I've been driving this bus for a long time. Solid State SSL four thousand series. I first started on it in nineteen eighty four and I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying with it.

Okay. SSL was a breakthrough. Know it was digital, the faders.

Moved, it's analog.

It is analog, shows what I know. Yes, it was one of the first where the faders moved right.

Well, yeah, eventually they came out with Ultimation where the faders had motors and they moved. Yes, it started out. I still use one where the faders don't move if I don't want them to move. If God wanted faders to move and give them wings, I don't want faders moving. I move them, then they move where I don't want them.

Okay, a couple of things. Do you think the motors add something to the sound.

Well, the reason, yeah, the reason they put the motors in was to eliminate the use of a VCA, a voltage controlled attenuator, and make it a clear path. Some people like that song. Some people can hear the difference. My brother uses ultimation. I don't hear a problem with the VCA. That's how it started, and that's how I'm going with it.

I like it. I like I just like it does. But it is an improvement.

Well, that's why they made it was an improvement to have no audio going through the fader.

Okay. Explain that a little deeper the VCA and how the audio doesn't go through the fader. Uh.

Well, the first the first console you could that you could automate, which you could have it remember your moves.

It's a fault. It's controlled to tell you it's a VCA. Okay.

So when they moved from that, you could actually switch from VC mode to motors on. That means the audio comes out of the chain, okay, and the and the the audio levels being controlled differently and supposed to sound a little more open, a little more punchy. But you know, it's it's apples and oranges. It's it's it's opinion. It's supposed to be better. I didn't care about it. I mean pro tools, the faders moved no matter what, you have no choice.

Okay, this is a nineteen eight or four.

All this one's eighty six, yeah.

Eighty six. Excuse me. In the last forty years, other than automation, what way have they evolved?

Well, with solid state logic, Yes, the quality has evolved, okay, and everything about it is evolved. Has it made it better? Not necessarily in our music business right now, what's evolved is how cheap the stuff has gotten and how quality has gone out the window, and a lot of things and convenience has taken over. Okay, because remember these things cost a fortune. So and the old needs and the older consoles from that golden era of the seventies and

That's all I care about.

And you know, when SSL came on the market, there were people who either SSL or Neve people. So what do you think about Neive, Harris and all the other boards that compete with SSL.

Well, for me, I think that the Neve sound is great to capture to record with. And I've done some great albums that are recorded on a Neve console. Tina Turner, you know, and they had that golden area of the eighty fifty eight, the eighty sixty eight, the eighty seventy eight, great class a mic praise.

You know.

I still use Neve modules to record stuff. They still have the best sound. But the SSL four thousand console is a mixing machine. It was built for one purpose, to give you the ultimate production tool ever, and nothing is going to ever beat the simplicity of this. When I started out, it was two twenty four tracks, you know, being able to automate and save it and save a picture of your mix so you could recall it and

Okay, before automation, you know, on certain mixes you'd have to bring multiple people into the studio to move the faders. So how do you do it? Uh?

In back then, let's go back then we'll start with it back then. Back then you would have pieces of tape in the faders with little marks. Okay, So back then, when I mix with no automation, I would mix until I made a mistake and I'm printing to the half inch, so I start to mix the half inches rolling. I'm like, oh, it's going great, all right, stop the half inch when I made a mistake, back up, start the happench again, backup, pick up where I was going, and keep stopping and starting,

So that's how you did mixing. You just make edits.

That that was your automation, your automations you go to you make a mistake, then back up and punch it in fix apart and I tell you Living in America by James Brown went that way and many others. And when you have to go back and print like the instrumental or the TV track, you got to remember all your moves and do the same exact thing again, and that, you know what, that builds, That builds integrity.

That's a great way to learn.

Then when you're able to automate, it's like it's it's it's like an unbelievable dream coming true that it will remember what you do. Early systems were bad, but the SSL became the ultimate mixing machine.

A Bob Clear Mountain who is my idol and I think.

Probably one of the greatest, the greatest mixers of all time and a really sweet eye talented guy.

He's the one that used this.

Tool to turn into a superstar on mixes like Let's Dance on start Me Up Okay, where they just they and all the Springsteen stuff.

They just go beyond.

How much of that was the machine and how much was clear mountain.

Obviously it's all the mixer's ears. But the tools enable him to go beyond what he could pull off. Okay, so you get better with the tools that you can go beyond this. Oh I could do this with it. Now I can make it do that. I hear this thing in my head. I can actually get it, and trust me. In the early eighties, you know, it was challenging. I mean, we're all trying really hard to make these things, you know, larger than life.

So the tool was a miracle.

Okay, let's talk about speakers. We had our tones than nsten M's and then you know they have the big speakers, the Augsburgers. What do you use?

And it's tense, the same ones I've had since nineteen eighty something, eighty seven or eighty eight. And here's a simple way to put it. I started out it was oritones in the late seventies, or maybe it was nineteen eighty. The first pair showed up, Okay, and we all got into it. The thing about the ns ten like it or love it. It's the sound of hits. Okay, and whatever whatever you hear through. If you can make it

Live with it.

It becomes your tool, becomes your reference. And still to this day, if I use other speakers, the mix sounds different. Things I don't like pop up and so yeah, I stay with it. I even created it with avingtone the CLA tens, which is the best we could do to make an exact copy.

Okay.

The only real difference in mind versus the originals are mine or new and it's a fatigue, so they get a little duller like the originals. But we did the best we could do to make a match. And and that's the story on that.

Okay. Back when they hit the market, everybody was putting a little piece of Kleenex over the tweeter. You still do that? What do you think about that?

Well, at this point, I'm so old. I wanted to be brighter.

Okay, No, I have the cover, I have the covers, really I don't even have I have the covers on them. I literally have see the original nsten ms had covers that want on right, and they look really nice. I don't want to look at the white cultun anymore. I had many years with the white colen a tissue. Now I just put the cover on it and the cover makes it dark.

Okay, your speaker business, the CLA speaker, Is that a business?

Uh?

Yeah, it's a product.

I have a CLA ten and a CLA ten Active, which obviously is popular because people want a powered speaker. I even have the virtual tissue paper controller.

And I mean, you know there's a lot of monitors out there. Can you get them through sweet Water people buying them? Or is it a very niche product?

Uh?

It's the biggest selling passive monitor there is.

Everywhere Sweetwater at where everyone has them.

And were you do any selling marketing or it just sells itself?

Well, I mean it's a I do a little bit. I mean I did a few ads for it. I even made a power amp to match it, the CLA two hundred, because I wanted to have the companion that went with it, which is a power amp that that to me gets the closest sound. And we're also coming out with a subwook first, so it matches that. So and yes, Sweetwater sells it. Everybody sells it, I mean, and I sell it at the right price. I mean,

So how much does a pear cost?

I think they're like eight ninety nine or and the powers are nine ninety nine.

Okay, and tell me about the amplifier.

It's I literally took the amplifier that I use been using a Yamaha amplifier and said, look, just make a copy of this. Make something it sounds like this, built like this, and it worked, and I plugged it in and said, you know what, this feels really familiar.

I'm happy with this. Okay, this does what it's supposed to do.

To what degree are you a gear hit? Worrying about the wire and all kinds of other stuff like that.

Uh, well, I don't care about the wire. I don't go that far.

Look as long as it as long as it creates the sound that I'm used to. Yeah, that's it, because I have so much vintage gear, and yeah, it's all made out of unobtainium. And when it breaks, it breaks, and when it stops working, you're bummed out. But I know, you know, I know what these things say. I know what they can do for my paint box. You know, I know what color is supposed to have. But yeah, we're always tweaking and having fun always.

Okay, So that particular board, how long has that been with you?

This board's been in this room since nineteen eighty six, and it's seen it's had this particular one, which is a seventy two. I mean Tupacsichord did his records on it. Before that, it was Stone Tempo Pilot, It's a lot of rock bands. Before that, it was death Row for a minute, and then after death Row someone else took over. Then I bought the place, so about sixteen years ago, two studios, but this has been here since since new.

Since new, it hasn't.

Moved, Okay, so tell us about your studio complex. What do you have?

Well, now I have three rooms. I have a studio A. I'm a studio B Studio A I rent out, and then I have a studio D I call. I don't really have a C. I have a studio D that I have with a brand new origin in it. So I have my partners in there. He's working, so we're fully functional. But this is like, this is my rooms and this is whatever is me is in here. Only nobody else comes in here unless I'm producing it or I'm involved.

Okay, studio has been closed and left, right and center. How's your business and how do you stay open? Well, it's simple, it's got to be owner operator.

Okay.

So being in the studio business is challenging unless you have a lot of loyal clients. But if you think about it right now, A and M Studios. Okay, Hence it A and M the last the five or six big ones, or left our books solid all the time now because I was working with Dwight, and Dwight couldn't find a room to finish vocals in and he always wants to be in A and M. So I mean all the last of the Mohicans are all busy, but

Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from New Jersey. Where trying to fly in New Jersey and tell people where that is in New Jersey?

Got some you know, twenty minutes from the city over in Bergen County, New Jersey. I was born in Englewood, lived in Tenafly. We moved a bit. My first job was I got it H and L Studios in Anglewood.

Wait, before you get there, your mother was a singer. What'd your father do for a living?

My father was in the jukebox and vending business.

So really.

Yes, so he you know, he would jukebox and cigarettes and occasionally some pins and some bowlers, but it was jukeboxes and he had to load them up. And he had a whole room full of forty fives and it was top forty, so it was one through forty, and every week or so he would update their locations and change them. And I was able to go in there as like a tot and grab forty fives and play them and take them home.

Okay, that business historically is controlled by the mob.

Yeah, and the mob basically forced them out. The mob said, look, you either sell to us or we're going to kill your whole family. He got pushed around by the mob to the point where he sold his company to a bigger vendor betson that were a little bit more immune to the mob influence. But no, he had guys coming in wanting to hand out.

Yeah.

He told me the stories about the situations and when he sold out it.

That was like the reason why he got out of the business.

What did his father do for a living.

His father was an embroiderer from Switzerland, so he comes directly from Switzerland. So, uh, my father's parents are from Switzerland. He was an embroiderer, so he embroided patches and flags and things like that.

And then how did your father get into the jukebox business?

You know, that's a question I don't have the answer for.

But I think him and his war buddy, you know, he had a he was in World War Two, and I think as one of his close friends, you know, that was an idea for them. That was an idea to get into that business. It's all cash, and my father loved music. He's the top forty guy. He was the one saying he'd hear a song on mind already, goes, is that one of ours? I'm like, no, Dad, that's somebody else. Why isn't that yours? That's a good song, that's a hit. He'd hear Mine goes, you know what,

And then that.

Stevie winning He goes, Yeah, that stev Went went thing that's gonna go. That's that that higher love thing, and that that's a good one.

That'll go. Watch them it watch it. He's right, it's funny.

And tell me about your mother's career.

My mom was, you know, a diehard jazz artist, professor of music. She taught she you know, she taught music. She lived it, she breathed it.

Uh.

She played every day till the day she died. I mean she always had the pianos, always played and uh and I did four records with their jazz records. She was just hardcore jazz, intelligent, very smart. But you know, raising five kids, it's a challenging being out in those little clubs, dinner clubs, playing it's you know, you got to have a lot of patience and a lot of a lot of pride to hold on to that.

So in the five kids, where are you in the hierarchy.

I'm right in the middle, right in the middle.

So so what is everybody doing today?

Ah, I mean, you know, there's five, but it's now six because before she got married, she had a child at wedlock, which is my older sister.

So I have a I have an.

Older sister, an older brother, and another older sister, and uh my two younger brothers. Obviously Tommy does the same thing I do. My brother Jeff was younger. He does live sound in the in the in the Pacific North, in the well in the West in Wyoming. My older brother was in the vending business. He's retired. He was he took over my dad's but he took over doing that. He basically worked for a mobster. I mean, he worked for guys that were questionable.

H he did.

He was probably the greatest guy who could fix a jukebox or a pinball, and he knows every single model. And then my you know, my sister is a complete entrepreneur. So, uh, the music thing was me and my two brothers. Really, my two younger brothers. We really went for it.

Okay, So what kind of kid were you? Growing up? Good or bad? In school? Friend? Sports?

Uh? The school didn't last till it ended in eighth grade, so uh, I just carried.

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. Let's start with the school. The lawe is you have to go to school till you're sixteen. Needles to say you're not sixteen in eighth grade. So what exactly happened?

Well, my mom saw that I wasn't really interested in school. I was more interested in music and recording because I would take her equipment. She just had like a real toreal, a few mics in a mixer. I took that into the basement. I started at eleven, twelve years old, recording a little band down there, and I would cut school and we'd hang out make music. And she finally realized, well, he's not going to go to school, I better get

The government never came over and said, this guy's not sixteen, he's got to go back to school. Nope, okay, and you did go to school. You have a lot of friends, you play sports or more of a.

Loaner, total loaner, and mostly into the music. And because I've had long hair, the greasers would pick on me. And because I wanted to hang out in the music room with a few of my other friends or smoke pop behind the school, all the greasers would come after me because I was the hippie. And it was you know, it was always the greasers versus the freaks, right, And that's how that went.

So getting out of school was a win.

Okay, do you have any kids.

I have a twenty twenty two year old daughter who's graduates college next week.

Okay, that's my question. Did you tell her she's got to go to college? Did you want to go to college?

I just no, I just said, you do whatever you want. I mean, I'm gonna I'll whatever. I'll take care of your schooling as far as you want to go. So it's I'm not telling you what to do at all. So no, she she's a great student, has done very well, and she's gone all the way and she might even

Then. Okay, many people of our vintage started off playing instruments being in band, especially after the Beatles hit did you ever play?

Oh?

Yeah, I played a little bit of everything. So I was a piano player, drummer, guitar player. In my band, I was a guitar player, keyboard player, and then the drummer was good, but he would speed everything up. And I love drums, so I picked up drums and I started playing drums and ended up playing drums with a lot of records I would produce. And there are even some mixes that the drums were so bad. I just replayed them, didn't tell them. I don't get in trouble.

Okay, your father was in the business, you had a room of Top forty. But when you started listening to the radio, what is it that caught your ears?

I mean I listened to am cousin Brucie. I started there. I mean when I was young. Uh so I was always listening to the Top forty hits. I was always, you know, I cared about what was you know, what was the hit and my dad had the list always, so I'd look at the Billboard list he had and I always check out those and have forty fives of that. Well then, you know, fast forward a few more years.

So wait, wait till you're a big proger.

Oh yeah, I mean all I listened to was Jenn It's like I play the Lamb all the time. I mean, I'm a proger, totally a proger.

And what about yes, General Giant and all.

The other totally general Giant, elp all that yes yours is notis grace all the progue. I mean, to this day, I'm out anytime I can see Steve Hackett and I've seen a hundred Hacket shows, so all the Genesis shows that could go to even the the you know, even the last round, which is a little disappointing because Phil was just like not, I you know, not in the best. So but yeah, Steve Hackett the only one keeping it going. And then there's also Stephen Wilson. He's great progue guys.

So yeah, come on, what do you think of Wilson's remixes on the classic albums?

You know, to be honest with you, I have not compared them to the originals. And you know, if he's able to do it great and the band's like it great, I you know, me and my brother Tommy would bust his balls when we see him at the show, saying, dude, you're not a mixer, send your files to us. We'd much prefer this record if we mixed it. Well, I like the records. I'd like to mix it myself, you know.

I guess you know he remixes them, and he's told me, you know, because the bands want changes that are you know, the people who are listening are the hardcore fans. They want him to sound like the originals. So when listening, it sounds like he took steel wool and scrub stuff off where it's like Giles Martin, what he did with the Beatles is a travesty.

Yes, I mean I agree that I agree with you on that completely. When you remix something that's been heard a million times, make sure that all the elements that are in there makes make the listener feel like it's just a cleaned up version. It's clarity. You bring clarity to it, and wow, this is just sounds so clear.

You give it a new name.

But you know, if you're going to remix it and clean it up, clean it up, make it clear, make it separate, but don't don't kill it for the listener.

It's not fair.

I'm just worried those will become the standard as time goes on. So your first gig is what.

Oh oh?

Back to the beginning. The first gig. I walked in on when I was doing getting the job. The first day of introduction, they're cutting Van McCoy.

Do the hustle really well, let's go a little bit slower.

How do you get the gig? Well?

I mean, my mom had friend ends and she basically said, what do I do with this kid? He takes my gear downstairs, he's always a tickering around with recording and he won't go to school.

And her friend says, I know a guy. I know a guy.

He's an engineer in the studio. Maybe he needs an assistant. Maybe he could be there tea boy. So my mom said, hey, I gotta we have an idea this date. This guy may want to hire you in a recording studio. I'm like, oh cool, I want to see a recording studio.

Let's go. So we went up to H and L. Hugo and Luigi's studio, which.

Had just just got in the twenty four track console just got a twenty four track tape machine. Twenty four jack, twenty four track just came out and it had an MCI console, a pair of ortones and some big reds. And I went there and they're tracking due to hustle, and I was just like, this is the place for me.

I gotta ask they're tracking through the hustle, do you hear it as a hit?

I was so enamored with, you know, the hearing a band play because I only hear I didn't hear the vocals yet. I only heard the track, you know, I didn't know what it was. I only heard like the basic track, you know, I did not hear and it's kind of an instrumental anyway, but I heard it. I was so enamored. I didn't even think about that aspect though.

So where was the studio and who were these two guys?

Hugo and Luigi are a songwriter's production team that did a lot of the Philly sound, the stylistics, the soft homes. They wrote the Lions Sleeps Tonight, They wrote a lot of a couple of things that actually wrote a song, a couple of songs for Elvis.

I think a couple Italian guys, you know that had the Philly sound.

They had a little company going on and the engineer Steve Jerome, he was my mentor, and they were writing on Angle with Cliffs on Route nine W a quarter mile down the road.

From Rudy van.

Gelder studio and what was going on in that studio.

I never got to go in. He never let anybody in there.

Okay, so you're there the first day, they're tracking the hustle. What do they have you doing when you start going there?

Literally in the beginning, Steve was a very tough teacher, but he was one hundred percent right, and I thank him every single day. He taught me to listen and pay attention and shut up, do not speak, do what you're told, and watch, watch the ball, watch what we're doing.

Okay, very simple.

So I started out by wrapping mike cables and helping with set up and cleaning up.

You know.

I went through the paces. I mean, he'd show me how to wrap a mic cable. I would do it. He'd say, no, that's wrong. You throw them all down and make me do it again.

You know.

He said, you got to pay attention to what I'm telling and showing you, and that went a long way. Writing track sheets a track sheet and then sitting there and running the remote and punching and record. So I used to run the remote. If they're doing vocals, I'd I'd watch a hand signal and punch record and watch

You know what.

Only speak when you're spoken to, okay, And because you're you're part of the machine and you got to make it work, and you know, you get respect. And when you're told how to do something, do it their way until it's your place.

Don't don't undermine the boss.

Ever, you're the assistant and I could be an assistant tomorrow anytime.

What kind of records were they cutting? Were you gutting?

It was all? It was all twenty four track. It was all R and B and soul, you know, Philly soul.

He cut a song a day.

I mean it was always you know, you'd be tracking all the time, and then literally it got taken over by sugar Hill Records.

Before sugar Hill. How do you end up touching the board?

Oh, I mean I'm sitting I'm sitting to the left of Steve. Okay, I'm the assistant. And when he would get up, I said, it the board okay, and I'll just continue with what he was doing. So if we're doing vocals, I'm sitting there on the talkback, I'm riding and faders whatever. When we were when he when he was mixing, I'd have to pay attention and he'd say, okay, now you print the TV track in the instrumental. So I'd have to watch what he did and do it, and he'd watch me do it and he taught me.

So he taught me to do it his way and it was very smart.

So when did you have your first session alone behind the board.

Ah, the first weekend I could sneak in. Uh, well, I had the keys. Once I had the keys, you know, who knows what happened? I mean, as soon as I had the keys, it was like the first no storm. Me and my band are in there sneaking in the record. We would like cut some tracks in our basement, then overdub guitars and vocals at the studio because we get away with it. It didn't really you know a vocal miight, you know, easy to get you know high from there.

But uh no. My first session was with my mom.

He let me have a day free to record my mom an album with my mom, which was a lot of fun.

Okay. Usually when you're the low man on the totem poll at the studio, you're working like ninety hours a week.

Yeah, I mean Mom would drop me off and then picked me up after her gig at night, so a lot of time as you go up the street for Chinese you know whatever, nine ten, eleven o'clock late, and yeah, we worked late. I mean it was basically ten to ten every day. So if I was lucky, it was less. But I loved it. I didn't even look at the clock. When you're that age, you didn't look at the clock. Who cared I do?

No?

I mean, I like ten to seven, I can't go board, you know the nine hours.

Okay, so how long before sugar Hill takes it off.

It's a few years, It's like five, six years, and then they sell to to sugar Hill, and then it becomes a whole different thing. It's a whole different You're making different records then, and then yeah, you have two studios now, And it was great. It was that experience. At that point I knew, you know, I was an engineer. I could handle it. And I mean I worked, you know. I mean they had sugar Hill, they did Rappers Delight and then that became a big hit. So then after

Okay, those are different records. Those are great records. But is there any genre of music you will say no, I won't mix that.

I don't really say no, But at this point, the rap from that era, okay, those records, I was okay because I was part of it, you know, it was part of my upbringing right now, like the rap the rapper those records. Now, it's like it doesn't really interest me because I think I had that early in my career. I need I need melody, I need musicality. Don't don't get me wrong. There's if it's a hit, it's got a great melody or a lyric, it's fine, but it's not gonna be what I'm going to go for. You know,

It doesn't matter. Good song is a good song.

I've had Slipknot in the morning and Michael Booble at night doesn't matter.

Okay, So how long is it sugar Hill? And what do you do next?

Well, after sugar Hill was only a couple of years. I literally got fired for using the studio at night without asking. I walked into Joe Robinson's office with the invoice and a check from the client, and I said, I didn't want to wake you up, because you know we had we were finishing latest client wanted to come into Look, can I book the room to do vocals between three am and six am?

Okay?

And I handed them all at and still it was like, well, you use my room. You know, you did stuff without asking. Okay, I'm available twenty four hours that you and you're asked, you're out.

Of here, really okay?

And and it was probably a blessing because after that they weren't doing that great. I ended up going to New York and starting as an assistant. I went right back to nothing and became an assistant at a unique recording.

How'd you literally get that job? You'd knock on a million doors.

No, some I had, you know, right after sugar Hill, my friends were doing stuff independently, and you know, some friends that I had worked with there said had me do some stuff with them, and they I don't know who recommended it, but one of the sessions was a unique. So my first time there is I was working with them. I met the owners and they were interested in you know, I told them what I did, and they was interested in hiring me, so they literally hired me on the spot.

So what were the steps of moving back up the ladder?

It didn't take that long before am I.

You know, my popularity increased and I was doing more and more, and literally as years went on with all the remixes with Arthur Baker and working with all these you know, other artists, I started, you know, getting some producers that just wanted to use me.

A little bit slower. Wait, wait, you're the assistant. How do you end up becoming a remixer unique?

Well, okay, you're an assistant. How do you become a popular engineer? Well by making rough mixes that they really get excited about. So how you got you know, how you get a fan base back then? Was Hey, client comes in to do a vocal overdub or a guitar or something, right, and you're the assistant or you're the engineer in a session. Well, you make a kick ass rough mix on their cassette form, and then they're like, man, this sounds cure.

I got to use that guy again.

And then they and then they tell their friend and then their friend comes in and you again, you make a great rough mix.

On the cassette and then oh I love this, And then the.

Studio manager and the other engineers working there are all pissed off at you because you're making these roughs. He goes, well, you shouldn't be you know, you shouldn't be making a rough like that. Well, I just want to sound like a record. So you know, they got well, you're making it harder for us. I'm like, well, then you need to work harder. I don't know, I only hear what. I just want to sell, like a hit record whatever. So you know, it wasn't about just do a vocal,

I mean, that's like your job.

So I really enjoyed that aspect of it, and that's what opened up all the doors because then they all want, Oh I want Chris.

Chris. Chris is the guy. Oh I need Chris.

And then all of a sudden, you know, producers are like, yeah, Chris is the guy. Chris is gonna work on this, and that that got me to doing more stuff.

Yeah, how long did you work it unique before you went Independent or where'd you go next?

Well, yeah, while I was working Unique that I started also working at other studios, Hit Factory with Troy.

I really liked Hit.

Factory and and Eddie Jermon owner really wanted me and my brothers over there. He'd do anything to get us there, so they whatever I wanted. So I would work a lot of and a Hit Factory because a lot of the clients wanted to up They wanted to upgrade. You know, the clients wanted to go to Hit Factory is beautiful and uh, all the all the big artists worked at the Hit Factory, so I did more there. The powder Station, I mean the power station. We called the powder station

Okay. When you went to Unique, you were on salary yep, okay, and you were doing stuff at the Hit Factory and the so called powder station on your own free time.

Right when I started going independent from Unique, I now, I'm trying to remember my first like manager Stu Silfin, my first lawyer. He would get me involved in some of his connections to get different clients. So if I went to the Hit Factory, I could steal any client, and people knew I was the ultimate client thief because once I go in there, they can't go in there because me and Tommy, well I will first. I always grabbed the client, and once they work with me, they

Know, I wanted to be in charge.

I want it to be my way, So people just liked my way, like like when you go to I don't know, the.

Subplace and Mike's Mike's way or whatever.

I just heard it my head a certain way, and I make everything go that way and people liked it, so that caught me those gigs.

Was there a specific record that was a breakthrough for you.

I would think that Living in America that I did with Dan was a good door kicker. There was a lot of the remixes like let the Music Play and some Shannon stuff. There was some of those one offs that I did with Carl Sturk and Devin Rodgers. Those did well well. Some of the remixes that did with

Had a hell of a run.

And unchained my heart by Joe came out after that, and then we did Tina Turn a Foreign Affair and you know, and a few other things that we did. And then when the Windward thing came in with Russ and I was there, I was doing it, and that's how Tommy got involved. So I eventually had tom and Jeff both there. I both my brothers come to Unique to work with me, and the owner really.

Couldn't do anything about it. I love Bobby and Joey Inn.

They just went with it because you know what Chris is doing great for He's bringing great clients and yeah, whatever he wants to do. So I brought my brothers in and they fast tracked into working with me, and they fast tracked it to.

The bigger gigs.

They didn't go through the channels, they didn't go up the stairs, they just took the elevator. I went with me, so you know, that's how Tommy got the gig. And I'd be producing a band and Tommy's there assisting and Jeff's they're assisting and we're all screwed around because I was a bit of a mad scientist. So like when the Lord Algie's are there, well, they're in charge whatever they want to do, and they're.

Having fun and they're enjoying it.

And it's great fun every day experimenting producing because when I was producing, it was just a free throw. I had so much fun. And with Windwood it was like every day. With Tommy, I'm like, man, because I couldn't wait for rusting it off the phone and sit there all day I had I had Dan at the other studio. I got to work on this other stuff. I didn't

Okay, so you're a remixer, how do you end up producing records?

Well, I you know I. I was always involved in the production side of it, and everyone saw it, so I would have found. I found a band, I got it signed to Electra, I started producing it. Then Ultra gave me a couple more bands to produce. So eighty three, eighty four, eighty five, eighty six, I had a bunch of records. I produced band called Xavion, an Electra, a band, an artist called Alan Vega. He was the half of the art band's Suicide. He was the singer. I produced

I got signed to Elektra and we made a record.

And then I had people in coming and just wanted me to produce their stuff with them. And you know, they didn't have a lyric and say, hey, cut a track to this. Or there was an album called beat Street that that Arthur was cutting for, you know, for the movie. And I would just come up with these songs for b Street with him, you know, and just kept going. So I love that side of it. What's the key to being a good producer making decisions?

It's that simple. But no, it's not just that.

Being a good producer is about ninety percent bedside matter.

Okay.

So you have to win over the artists and show them that you're confident and that you know what they want, okay, and you know what deliver it, and making decisions is everything. You waffle one second, that's a problem. So whether it's a vocal that's good or a drum sound or drum fill or guitar lift. Yes, yes, that's good, No, that's not good.

Do it again.

Being able to make those snap decisions and have a big vision, that's what.

Makes a great producer.

You could always go back and said, you know what, let's do those guitars over today.

I think what we did yesterday, I think we rushed it. Let's go again.

You got to make a decision, and you got to you know, you have to drive run the ship. You have to be in control. Some people work really fast. Other people work at a glacial past. If I hire you, what kind of speed are we working at? At light at lightning, it's like back in the future when it hits eighty eight miles an hour. You can't work as fast as possible because think about this, all right, a song, a song can get tiring so fast, okay, it's it can spoil so quick. So you got to be in

It's just it's a drag and it's it's just human nature.

The more you hear it, the more you either like it the way you have it, you have you lose.

All all all concept of it.

So I would I like to work fast and then put the song on the side a couple of weeks later, put it up to mix it, and then you know, clean it up and go. I mean, look, get that impression, make that timestamp. But sometimes people will work at a glacier pace and the song did not improve from the demo. It actually got worse and more boring. I want to keep the energy, you know, what makes the song interesting, the story.

And what about recording live? Everybody there or everybody uh separately.

I mean I think the days, you know, the days of cutting live, and I've done a bunch of that and I've seen it work. You get if you get the A team out there, I mean the A team you can cut you live, okay. And but mostly what we do is the drummers out in the room okay, everybody's in the control room playing and we get the bones of what's going to work for the song okay, and we just get to we get the drums on it,

Last. Most of the records I produced that were built that way.

Drums are the last thing we put on because everything was built around good timing okay, almost like a grid, so it was easier and records.

Now. More of the stuff I make now it's done that way.

And because of the technology we have, we could just send files to a bass player here, guitar player there, a drummer here. I mean the stuff I news, I said the guy you know, it'll be like a drum loop I created with a machine and have him planned in his house to send me to files whatever it takes.

Okay, you talked about your lawyer. To what degree have you had a manager or have the gigs just come to you as or somebody in between.

I've I've always had a manager. I mean I had a brief run without one. When I first moved to LA I got a manager named Steve Moyer and that was his first engineer mixer client, and he was the first manager of a mixer, an engineer, and we had a hell of a run because he knew, you know, he worked at labels. He knew these people said hey, yeah right, Chris set in the files, give me a shot. So look, you're the new kid in town. Everybody wants

Now I have Stephen Rosen.

And it's about just putting me in positions that that I don't get into. I mean, most of the clients text or call me or email me, you know, the repeat customers, they just come to me direct. But but you know, with the manager, you get you get clients that you would not normally get, situations that are different people you don't have a connection with.

Okay, in the old days, the sixties and seventies, a lot of times the engineer cut the record, mixed it. So how did that change?

Bob clear Mountain changed it good. Yeah, it was like that until Bob Clearmountain or Michael Brower. I mean, I just say, Bob Clearmount Broward would probably disagree with me. There was a handful of situations where the mixer didn't have his credit on the record. And but For me, it was Bob okay, so we just wanted to clear the mountain. We wanted a shot, so he became the gunslinger. Yes, most of the engineer mixed the record. That was part

That was done. That's how I.

Learned that the engineer mixed it after the last over though, and that's it goes to mastering. But then we move on to Bob clear mountain, taking a song and mixing it. And the great thing about that for me and I think for him, is that you get the file, you get the tape, you put it up, you get your first impression, and you go with it.

Okay. It's like a first date. Okay.

All the good stuff you ever want happens on that one day, so you only have to care about it.

You don't have to live with it for months. Okay.

So if you compare it to a first date, you don't have to meet the family, the brothers and sisters, the cousins, the Christmases, the thanksgivings. You just it is have fun that one day it's over. So your first impression on the song is always the best. So you have no preconceived notions and you just go with it.

Okay, you know you're gonna mix a record. To what degree do the producers or the act give you input or what degree is Chris, we did it here? It is do your magic.

Yeah, well there one hundred percent. There's I have clients that just Chris, just do your magic. I know what you do, I know what you're gonna do, I know what to expect.

Just do it.

And then there's clients and you have artists that took home a copy of the Roff and you listen to it two, three, four, five, ten, twenty times. That's the kiss of death. Then you have that marriage the artist has with the ruff, and you got to beat the ruff. You gotta supersize it. Okay, so you're a bit shackled to that version. Look, once you heard a whole lot of love ten times, do you want to hear it

So the first thing I check is like, are you guys married to the rouff? How many times have you heard with it?

Just want to know what kind of hell of getting myself in on because it's really no fun just matching the ruff and picking up where someone left off, because that's not mixing.

You know what I'm saying. Mixing is when you have free reign, do what you want.

Because a lot of times I make a different arrangement or I turn stuff off that I think is excessive. You know, sometimes they put frecking three pounds of a lord in a one pound bag and it sucks, So I take half of it out and then all of a sudden the song comes back, or I make eight arrangements or changes. I have free will, I love free will, free willie. You know they're not gonna do something different that can show you what I think it should do,

What are you kidding?

No one's gonna care. They're looking at their watch, their bored. Come on, hurry up and get us to the goddamn corse before I fall asleep. So I try to bring that to it, you know, I try to bring that. Say look, here's what I think for your single three minutes to fifteen seconds ware bamp, thank you man, want to hear it again?

How often do you finish the mix and the producer in the ax say, great, we're running with it, as opposed to, oh can we change this? Change that.

I'd say ninety five percent they're good with it, and the other five percent or maybe is it eight percent, we'll have changes. I mean, we live in a world. Now, I'll do a mix. I'll send that out on MP three. You know, I just I said that a specific way for a reference in a common format. Okay, and I'll wait to hear back. Okay. Sometimes it's days. Sometimes it's weeks before they even comment. My good clients, it's it's usually within ten minutes, okay. And if the artist here,

So do you want the artists there or you definitely don't want the artists there.

There's certain situations where their ownership is the only way it gets closed. With green Day, they have to be here to hear it, and then if there's like a two percent change later, that's fine, but they have to be here to approve and check it. And I like that, and I find that with Dave Matthews. I find that

You got to be here. I prefer it. Okay.

It goes quicker that way because they're here, they own it. It's over, okay. And if something comes up later, we have a recall rally. We just you know, tweak a couple of songs. So, but there's a situation where I'd prefer to mix the whole album, have the band come in for one day, review a couple of songs they want to change it, and then knock it out.

Okay, So how long does it take to do a mix?

A couple hours? It depends on how messy the song is, how well put together it is. First you have to untangle it and make it manageable. So yeah, it can be a couple of hours. It just depends on how much focus I have. Because we live in a world where there's so many distractions, you got to shut it all off and do the job. So if I come in and shut it all off, which is what I usually do, I just stay focused until it's done. I don't leave the room until I finish it. Then I

Then, and how many can you do in a day before you just can't do it anymore?

You know, if I'm mixing an album where there's similarities in the recording from song to song two or three, sometimes four, I mean a cheap trick record, I've done seven in one day. Because you know, there because the recording is so similar that it's almost like a live album, you know, because a lot of it's very the same, So it's just you know, different transitions, so.

It can happen that way.

How often do you finish it and the act want changes that you don't agree with? Then what do you say?

I mean that, Like I said in the you know five to seven percent range, there's changes. Do I agree with them? Well, a lot of times no. Sometimes it's just personal taste or it's an arrangement thing. But when there are things I don't agree with, then I know, well, you know what I If you want that much mayonnaise

Okay.

And sometimes the minutia from a guitar player or a drummer or a bass player or whatever, it's always just their personal interest being boosted or something that really doesn't help the mix, okay, or maybe something is because they're hearing impaired or just something they heard in a rough mix. So I'm looking at the big picture, what makes the song work?

Okay? And is this going to help?

Okay? Let's go back to the producing end. To what degree do you tell them to change the song, rearrange the song or you're more just getting it down and making decisions.

I mean, we get it down and I take the file home and I change the arrangement, I change parts, I'll replay things. Okay, with a young artists that up producing, I mean I'll take his demo and I'll cut it up and change the arrangement and we'll replay all the parts. So yeah, I mean while we're in here working on it together, we'll work on the arrangement right away. I mean, the most important thing is the arrangement and the key. Everything else is just minutia. It doesn't matter. A melody,

And what about lyrics.

Lyrics are important and all but lyrics are Lyrics are very important, but they're also a personal journey because most of the lyrics are about, uh, something can happen in your life, Okay. So I try to help them make sure that the lyrics make sense and we can understand the lyrics. Okay, And sometimes I change to say will this be better? Doesn't it mean the same if you say this versus that, because what you're saying there is a little bit of a tongue tie.

Is this easier? Does this sing better?

So I'll change it with them if it sings better, if it gets the point across. And then there's the problems where if a song has fucking it do you have? Can you say something else? No? Just beep it, dude. No, if the song's called fuck the world, can you say something else? Because that's gonna cause you a problem, no matter what about judging it?

All right?

Great, fine, whatever you know? That's you know in a mix. So I always encourage ours. If you're gonna say fuck or you're gonna swear, come on, let's at least have an alternate lyric for the Bible belt.

Okay, how often you put up a mix and you hear a hit and you know it when you hear.

It A lot, a lot, I mean a lot. I can tell that these puzzle pieces are working.

And I call it the fly paper effect.

Okay, If I can walk out of the room, get on the phone, hear the news, hear another song, and still remember this one, that's the beginnings of a hit for me. If I wake up the next morning after hearing a bunch of other things and still remember that song, it's a hit. It's like the bottom being song with Green Day. But no, no, no, no, no, no no no no no no, like no matter what, I can still hear that melody botta bing botta bing botta boo's.

I don't know why.

It's a stupid part, but it's it's to catch you as shit. So if I can remember that, then I feel it it stands a chance.

How'd you get to work with Green Day?

I mean I was working with Rob way back.

I was working with Rob Canvalla.

He had this band called Kars Flowers that was the makings of Maroon five, and we started our friendship there and we moved through a bunch of different artists and then this Nimrod album came along and he wanted me to take a whack at it for him, and and the rest is history, I mean, and then we worked on a bunch together. They took a break from me for a record or two, and then they came back

So how does it feel when someone says we're going to go another way?

I have no issue.

I don't take it personally, Okay, I'll say, like, look, let's do this. Give me the song that your guys gonna do, and at least let me send you in a mix that my mix, and you guys can blind you know, blind test it. Just do a blind tasting. Whatever, pick the winner. That's happened once in a while, and as long as it's fair, it's a you know, as long as it's fair and everything's the same volume, you let the artist pick maybe maybe the new guy's better.

You know, I have no I have no personal thing about it. Yeah.

I like to win, and I could be a real asshole about it, but I don't like to be discounted, like at least give me a chance, you know. With Peter Gabriel, I kept emailing him and by large, give me a chance to mix a song for free. I'll even pay you. I just want a mix on the record. Is it that hard to let me have a file? I just wanted a shot, that's all.

Don't care. I just like Peter Gabriel.

What's the state of the remixing business?

Too? Well, the remixing it's like, what's the state of the mixing business?

Right? Right?

I mean the mixing business is basically chosen by the producer and the artist, Okay, or the label or the manager. But I think it's really producer driven and the artists they usually pick. Remixing is the problem more in right now because of that most But no, the mixing is still it's really it's simple a lot of times. Remember, you know, the artist has your little team, and that's

Not fair to put it out. To put it up on the site.

So whether it's Rebel Yell, whether it's unless the whole band is dead and there's nobody around going to improve it, well whatever, but make sure the artist gets at least to hear it and say, yeah, that's good, I like it.

I'll sign off on that.

It's respect that something they created that you manipulate for a new format, that they get to prove it.

That's simple, and that wasn't happening.

Okay. You know, the business has evolved like everything else. And for the last twenty years, labels we're talking about a major label will invest in a single song, they'll get additional songwriters, et cetera, and they'll pay a producer an unbelievable premium and a remixer an unbelievable premium. Is that's something that's in the world that you're in because in a lot of other worlds, uh, mastering, the prices have dropped to the floor. Okay, another thing, So what's

I mean, I don't you know the pop world where they're you know, they're going through that. I'm not that much involved because I get the song when it's done. Okay, when it's all done and they want they want somebody else to mix it, I do it, okay. So that world mastering, they usually want my choice.

Okay. If and if they.

Don't like what he did, well I'll have him try to make him better. Okay, the stuff they'll you know, the uh, that's where my business is. So it's pretty much straight fan base. People send you stuff to work on, and they also manage and produce some man so I like both sides of the coin. I like to produce for a while and then come in knock out some mixes because it keeps the variety flowing.

So is compensation stayed steady, going down or going up?

The mixing compensation is pretty steady, pretty much steady. The producing compensation it varies because a lot of times you're doing a lot of pro bono work. So look, you find a new artist, you're doing it all for free and hope you strike gold and hopefully you'll get him out of the road making some money, and or you'll have a band where you're literally just take a piece

That's that's going to happen.

If the band plays one hundred shows a year and they sell x amount of merch, it's a guarantee that your producer's fee is the merch. So selling records doesn't really make money. I mean it's just a piece of merch. So you know, streaming doesn't make money. Songwriter royalties that makes money. I mean, it's it's improving, but it's a whole different planet.

So over your career as a mixer, have you gotten royalty points, flat fees? What's the status in the past?

And then today, at a certain point in my career, everyone start paying a point. So I earned the point on every mix, and while CDs were still selling twenty thirty million dollars, that's real money. Okay, those royalties added up because you're getting a royalty based on the sale of a CD, a hard piece of record. Now they've actually because they're making a vinyl, you're getting a royalty on that. The royalty on sound exchange and streaming, well, I don't know, it's not like it used to be.

That's the heyday, right.

So if you had royalties back then and it stayed at that and stayed and kept going at that rate, it would have been a whole different landscape financially. But once Napster came in and they were in denial about you can copy CDs, it was over and then it all changed. So now it's like, Okay, a lot of times it's better just do the buyout then get a percentage, but we basically get a percentage a point on everything.

And how busy are you?

I mean, it's six seven days a week, as busy. It's as busy as I want to be. I'm as busy as I want to be. And I do enjoy. Like I said, I'm going between producing and mixing, so I like not just being the mix just pounding the mixes out. And the utmost work is very booming right now because maybe my approach.

How much outmost work? Are you doing.

A ton every record?

And we're going back and right now I'm picking records I want to do that haven't been done yet, and I'm preferring to go back to stuff seventies early eighties when it was two twenty four tracks or one to twenty four track, you know, the first you know, first albums by artists that those albums that may be artists okay, that are only twenty four track okay, And that's what

Okay, we were talking that you believe the original engineer should do the utmost mix.

If possible, or be involved.

I mean, I really believe that the only way to save the past for the future, or to reconnect with it is to get the original people involved. To first make sure that the assets of these earlier records are intact. You have that to begin with, and if they could have some involvement and come in and shed some light on, you know, their impressions of what you're doing.

That to me, it's important. You know.

It shouldn't be just a money grab. Ooh I could get I could do all these outmost mixes and make money. No, that's not the concept here. Our job is to serve the artists and serve the music. If you do anything else, you're serving yourself and guys that are doing the money grab, that's just serving your wallet. Do the right thing for these records. Come on, I don't care if it's more work, Just do the right thing.

Okay. On a remix as opposed to a new record, is there enough money to do it your way.

Not really, We're trying to eke out a eke out a way where you know, because look, to make an at most mix, you have to recreate the stereo mix first, because the sonic palette has to be built in. Okay, yes, you can take an original recording, throw it in your at most computer, use your plugins, and go that way. But my attitude is like, look, I want to remix it in stereo. Get all that magic that they had

Okay, you have the stereo mix now, needless to say that's the way it was originally mixed. Or two speakers. Stereo philosophies have changed. You know, used to be certain things in different speakers. Now everything merge drums in both speakers, et cetera. You got a stereo mix, what do you do to create an app most mix?

Well?

Once, but I'm saying once you match.

Say let's let's, for example, take listen to the music the first Doobie Brothers record.

Okay, So the first thing I want to do is I want to match. I want to match the mix.

So I want to have their mix on one button and then my console on another so I can compare. Okay, what's making make it all? I want to make the picture match right as close as possible to what they did.

Okay.

Once I have that all automated and perfect, I print that, okay, and then I can do a full capture of every individual part and then put that in another computer and all the sonic qualities and all the balances are intact. You got to match the stereo first. You can't do that on an atmost rig. You got to do it in stereo. So there's many ways. That's just the way I do it. I want to match the stereo first because I know once I match that, the autmost will match.

Okay, you say you match the stereo, and then you go back to the multi track and then break it out because it's already EQ et cetera compressed the way you like it.

Well, you're yeah, you're you're you're playing the multi track through your console and it's automated obviously, right, and you can and once the mixes match then you're playing that automation and then you're gonna you're gonna literally capture every fader, all forty four faders and all the rever of it effects. You're all gonna get captured to like sixty four tracks.

And then you go from there.

But you've you've an act taken the piece of art and putting all the colors in the right places, okay, and then then you can go three dimensional with it.

Okay, So what's the philosophy on where to put what sounds?

That's where it's the wild wild West for me.

I want you know, for me, we want to sit in the in the sound field and just move things around so it stays cohesive, but you you're able to get some more definition and give give parts some more placement. I mean, it's great with a live thing because you can make it sound like you're sitting in the room, okay, and you can move things around, so it just gives it a more three dimensionality. And that's really the concept is like you want to have a new experience with

Okay, what's a reference track you use that you did mix and one that you did mix that people can check out at most?

Uh?

Well, I obviously the the El John's Soon. Uh Rocketman is a great atmospherex because look rocket Man, even the title, even the lyric, the landscape alone makes you feel about it.

Look as far as mine. Just look at.

Current Green Day or Nimrod or or My Jovi or any of the any of the ones that we've put up there.

Uh.

And these current artists will show you what I've been doing, okay, and the excitement we've done. I mean, I have a really cool Steve Hackett when it's not up there yet. But the law of a live show I kind of like the live version of aut most stuff because you can really feel like you're sitting in a venue.

So why did you move to California?

Uh? You know this this guy, Tommy Mattola, he lives on the road, and uh, I was working for him. He said, I got this girl, I got this artist I'd like you to work with.

I'm like, okay, because.

I was doing a couple of things for Carle and Hall of Oates and Holly Knight, and she had a band called Device, but this is now her first solo album and she had some success.

You know.

The Best was a big single for her, and I did. I did that record as a mixer an engineer with Dan and said, you'll be good for it.

She needs someone like you to help her make this record. I'm like, okay.

So we're working at the Hit Factory and she wanted to finish the record, do all the vocals and final overdubs because it was cheaper, and she had a little studio in her house. So I said, chure, I'll come out there and we'll work on at your house. And I worked on it there with her. We became very close friends and finished the record and I just stayed. What's not to like. I'm a rag talk man. I can out a convertible and have good weather. And I just never went I you know, I didn't go back.

And what's the difference between the East Coast and the West Coast for you?

The pizza, the bangels to hot dogs, I hear you, right, the attitude it's you know, hey, you know what out here? Well it our weather has been kind of it's a different year now, But it used to be in New York every weekend from like April to September would rain every weekend.

Was ship here.

Every day is perfect, so I could have the top down like the whole year and if it rained, it was a novelty. This year opposite, but uh no, just different lifestyle. Plus it was booming out here. It was it was more suburbia. It wasn't the city. It wasn't driving trying to park in Manhattan and you know, and helping around the city. It was like everything's residential, spread out. Everyone's got a car. You know, there's a lot of studios at a lot of different clients, a lot of

And what's the difference in the people.

I mean the East Coast and the orcer. You know, it's like a jerky boy. Everyone's got a you know comment. You know, everybody's you know, they got an apigion. You know, you come here, it's a little bit more easy going, a little more easy going, and uh back in New York, it's like, you know, everyone's Brett Weir or Frank Rizzo.

You know this accent, there's an attitude, there's an edge. You know. I love it, like Troy Germano my good buddy.

So I love going back there and refreshing my my, my, my, this my vibe or my accent, so it doesn't vanish.

So you know, this is a business with a lot of hours. Has your personal life suffered.

Yeah, my whole career, it has totally.

To this day, it suffers because I don't know, I have a hunger for this stuff really hard.

I lust after it.

I mean I wake up sometimes six in the morning I'm editing songs, so I can never seems like I can never get enough of the music. And I really have to force myself to, like, Okay, go working in the backyard, go work on the property, Okay, put all that effort into the into stuff other things. So my favorite sport is bike riding with the e bike and the mounts of Switzerland. I mean that's all I like

And to what degree is this life affected your love relationships? Uh?

Usual eurek'savocate on just about every single one of them. But like with anything, you you you put the same energy you put into music into your love life or to your life whatever, and then eventually you'll take that for granted and the music will take over again. And I don't know, it's it's it's hard. I mean, look, you know where your priorities are and you'll put them there. So, uh, I have a great situation and I'm happy, you know, I'm happy with that. So I like to keep my

Okay, producers, what's a good producer? I mean, you're mixing and they're coming in before. What makes a good producer on the outside? Who are a couple of ones you like to work with?

I mean, let's go back to at the beginning, uh, back to you know. The one that I thought was probably the best I worked with was Dan Hartman. It was amazing what I learned from him and how he would just do all the things I said about taking control of a situation. And I think a great producer is one that also can play. I mean someone like Rob Cavallo who he knows how to he knows how to play. That helps him navigate the band and that's a lot of it. And John Shanks the same way.

He loves the music.

And then there's a friend of mine I've been mixing for hundreds and hundreds of years, Julian Raymond, who works with Scott Borchetta. A great producer. He knows exactly what to do, and he's loyal. He knows that he literally makes records that are made for me to mix because he knows that that team effort really works well. And I've seen I've seen many of the new I mean, Max Martin is an amazing producer because all he cares about is a song and then he crafts the sonics

It made something. It still sounds better than most records today sonically.

Okay, But Mutt, I'm with you there, Mutt really doesn't work anymore so in your particular case, where you've been doing it for forty years, closer to fifty years, you say you're still hungry. You must have had moments where you said, man, I'm burned out or it doesn't mean as much to me, or something like that.

Uh, I do, And that's where I'm selective about what I work on. If I see if I see one of those one of those gigs, I know is not going to interest me. If it's not gonna light my fire, I'm out of here, you know. So if if it's something that I feel is going to be work and not fun, I don't do it. I don't care who it is. Uh So I'll turn away. And I like to take taking on the bigger challenges. I like to do the live broadcast too, because that's what I call

But you know, I want to get burned.

I gonna Switzerland for a month and ride a bikes in the mountains, and I don't listen to music. I hear cows, and I hear yoldling and alpine horns, and that makes me happy.

Well, will you go alone or with your wife?

Or h I start alone? I liked, I need, I need a week, or I just get up every morning. I could take my bike going to train, go on the trail, get out there by myself.

Where is this in Switzerland?

Uh, Lucern or Interlockin? You know, I have a lot of friends there.

And just to rejuvenate, you know, I think you got to get out in nature and just be alone and uh just you know, be alone with your thoughts and be alowd nature. Just take all that white noise. We're so surrounded with white noise from the phones. Well you have none of that. It's great. The only thing on the phone is the Strava that tells you where you know that or a map.

I just use it for that.

But now it's a nice break from it all, and then it's all new again when you start back up.

Okay, you mentioned earlier. Listen to the music, the first Doobie Brothers hit. You mentioned Jagged Little Pill, you mentioned led Zeppelin, the cassette and uh back in Black. These are all iconic records, not only the iconic, they're great records. What do you think about the music today compared to those eras well?

I think right now what's being made? I mean my concern now is is it going to stand a test of time? Is in twenty years a new record gonna you know, still feels like something you're gonna want to hear. Is it gonna pass through the generations? One of my concerns, and I think one of the concerns I have with new music versus old is something that I feel that

It's all made for disposable.

So I think some of these creations are overly spanked, overly compressed, and uh, only made to last this very short journey. We're not seeing these you know, Rolling Stones albums or these great records. Maybe they'll come back, maybe they'll be a little bit more open as I'm hoping.

Do you affect your sound to be current with what's happening?

You know?

The funny thing is that I always hear things the same way since I started. I always hear it the same way in my head, and as it a ranger or a player, I hear certain things in my head. I never think about, well, let's put this on this because current. I never think about it that way. I never think about, let me listen to some sounds for current record and use those sounds. I'm like, I never think of it that way. I don't know, I don't

How much do you keep up on new music?

I don't. I mean, yeah, I mean I will keep up.

I'll look at I'll look and check out some new artists and people I like and see what they done.

And yeah, I'll do the.

Radio scrolling, you know, my truck and I'll just be scrolling through all those channels, like, okay, so here's the country station, here's the rot Oh there's that. Oh that's cool. Who's that? Oh that's not bad? What's that lyric? Okay, good, I'll listen to it. But yeah, I just stay current as far as hearing new things, but as far as what I'm going to listen to. Whatever, relaxing I'll put in the Lamb two albums or Quadraphedia. I mean, Quadraphedia is a win every time.

Quadraphenie the original album with a great cover with Vinyl. It was remixed. John Eden Twistle was involved for the movie and The mix is better, I feel than the original. Listen. There's so many versions since then, but I remember buying it. The lyrics it was less cloudy, it was more defined. But anybody you haven't worked with you want to work with.

Yeah, I wanted it.

Borkwori McCartney ever got to do that. I wanted to mix a Stones record. I mean, I've worked with Mick, but like this deal with that Andrew Watson. I just wanted to mix a Stones record. I just wanted to have that. You know, I wanted to mix a real Who record, but I think that ship is sailed right my heroes.

I just wanted to work with some of my heros.

Of course, I wanted to work on some Zeppelin' ac DC, you know, all those Titans. I wanted to have at least a chip in that game. And I mean I got to work with the Elton I did the Dodger Sati of Live thing, which is great because my friend's in the band. So I got to work with, you know, artists I seriously respect, and there's more to come, like Peter. I loved working with Peter and Dwight. I mean that guy's not easy. But you know, if you can make

About music from him.

He's a very smart guy and very passionate about his music and how it sounds. And I've been in charge of that for a while now. And I would hate to be his guitar rodeo on stage because he is particular.

But he's right.

You know, how'd you get the gig with Elton?

Kim Bullard's keyboard player, A close friend of mine lives up the street. We've been friends for thirty years and I've always wanted to work on some outh stuff.

He goes, well, here's your chance.

So so you know, the offer came in and it's like, just match the fee they wanted to pay, Bob, and you're in, okay, and do it the short amount of time. Fine. And when they all went to Emmy and you don't, well, just suck it up. So maybe I'll get to Emmy, maybe I won't.

Who knows? Did mix it?

Okay? And you have these classes? What's the story with that?

I like giving back?

So Mix with the Masters is a platform that we teach kids about mixing, about producing you can do it over a course of a week. We could do it with online videos. You can do it at four day. I'm literally leaving tomorrow to do a master class that's Sweetwater for two days to teach. You know, kids that are hungry about learning. What would Chris do? It's really what how does Chris do this? So I show them exactly what I do? Am I worried about? Well, if I show everyone what I do, then no one's gonna

It's all. It's all about time.

So if you can, if you can, you know, if you can be good at what you do and do it efficiently, you can enjoy it, you know, so I enjoyed the teacher.

Give me two things that you would immediately tell your students.

Is to take it seriously or get another job that look at it as a career and a life time thing, not as a hobby.

Okay, that's the first thing. Okay.

The second thing is take control of it, Okay, and then you'll have it. You'll have a chance. And it's not a guarantee that what you hear they're gonna like, but give it a shot, because that's the whole thing with anything in the music, Like what you hear in your head maybe way wrong, and no matter what you do, they're not gonna like it. So you may end up

That's the win.

It's not about eke here, it's not about compression they're about It's nothing to do with the tools.

Nope, it's a state of mind. That's the win.

Well, this has been a win, Chris. I want to thank you so much for taking the time with my audience. You're a fountain of information. There are many other layers. I know you're busy, so thanks a lot for doing this.

You are quite welcome, Bob.

I love to see you at the next amazing event there because you're a music lover and you're seem to be at all the right ones.

That's where I run into you at the Greek Theater and elsewhere. In any event, this has been Bob Left sets with Chris Lord Algae. I just want to take a moment to give credit to Margaret Middleman, who for the last couple of years has been the coordinator on this show, the grease who makes this work. She is moving on, so kudos to Margaret. In any event, Chris, thanks so much. Till next time. This is Bob Left stets