Chris Blackwell

which Ian Fleming owned originally. And what is the status of Golden Eyed today and how is it different from when Ian owned it? Well, when Ian owned it too was just one house. And when he uh pass my mother looked after the house for a bit, waiting for his son to come of age and take the ownership. But sadly his father his son committed suicide and so the the house just came on the market and my mother asked me if I would go out and try

and buy it. And I was a little short of the cash at the moment at the time, but the person I knew had some cash it was about early because I just paid him some fat royalties. So I told him that he should go and see it because it's a great property and he should have a look and see if he liked it. And he went, but he said it wasn't his kind of thing. He was more street as it were, so he passed on it, and so I eventually voted. Now you also got involved

in real estate in Miami South? How did that come to pass? That came to pass because I flew down to Miami to watch a new singer that had come from Detroit and she was going to do a I have I have a sort of video done of her, and so I went down and I flew into Miami and then I went and stayed at the Fronto Lu Hotel. But I don't really like big hotel that. I didn't like it at all. So I said, I want to get out of here, and I rented a car and

drove south. And when I drove south, but by bit it became more and more funky and more and more broken up and everything, and I couldn't believe it. Here's this incredible beach, incredible location, and everything was derelict, and I just couldn't believe it. So I wandered around and and saw a couple of different places that I thought i'd love to buy that, and so that's basically what

I did. I bought a place called the Marlin. And then in um in Miami at that time was somebody called Barbara Julniki who was very super talented designer, creative lady, and she was in Miami and I asked her if if she could help me and design a little um you know, a little sort of hotel, and and she did, and it was adorable. It really looked just fantastic, and very quickly it started to get people coming to it a lot. And then I put a studio in it, and and off we were really great. So what drove

people to the hotel? Did you saved all your friends? Did you put the word out or just people drove by into how great it was. I think I think it's sort of a bit of both. You know, I spoke about a lot about it, tell people about it, because it was so extraordinary that, you know, you couldn't get a cab to take take take you out there. It's very very difficult. It was at a time. It was a time soon after remember when Castro sent a whole lot of um cumans to to Florida or something,

and there was a country. Remember what happened, but I know it was a kind of chaos and so no, but nobody really wanted to go to South Beach, Absolutely not at that time. So you know, this has become a thing of having studios in a hotel. Is that actually marketing? Or does that really work? Having a studio

in a hotel? Do you know? It works? It works because you know you've got you can you know in the studio, you can get stressed out in the studio and you really want to sort of take a break and just go and have a nap for a bit, and so in that regard it really works. Now you ultimately own multiple properties in South Beach. I ended up earning about eight, eight or nine of them, eight or nine,

but ultimately you sold them all. That was a motivation to sell them because they had a law in Miami at that time that if there was if there was any stores coming off the eastern coast of Africa, that one should already start and canceled bookings and cancel all kinds of things because that could turn into a huge which hurricane and cause chaos. So uh, that just didn't make any sense to me. I mean, you know, hurricanes don't come every week, they don't even come every month.

They come now and again. But what would happen is that we would still have to do that. We'd have to let all the staff go, we'd have to cancel the bookings, we have to close the hotel. And I thought that just makes no sense at us. So I left. And did you get out at the right time financially? Um? I say, okay, okay. It wasn't that I was trying to make a bag of money on it. I was just wanting to get out of it at that time. And it was somebody else who was very interested in

the latest hotel I did. They were called the Tides, and that was the one which really attracted a buyer. And and that's what that's what happened. So he bought the Tides and or they on the hotels. And when you own those hotels and presently your own golden eye, how hands on or you were you mostly in the design construction phase or when it comes to actually running the hotel, where you just pass that off to someone else.

The design, design construction phase really is where I spent a lot of time because it was great in Jamaica. It was great land that was sort of had not been used, and it was a great It was a great opportunity to build something on that land because it was right on the water and it had a kind of lagoon in the middle of it, and everything was

really beautiful. So at this point in time, is most of your money tied up in Golden Eye or you pretty diversified, because certainly in your book you talk about financially, uh, periods of great success and then other periods were scratching part. Yes, definitely. Throughout my life has been up and down all the time. Just similarly, you know, it has been nothing slow and steady and solid. It's been up and downe And so

at this late date, how are you doing financially? Um, not too bad considering you know what's going on in the world right now. Not too bad. People really like five really like a girl and I and I didn't mention Fireflyer. Is that place really close to a Golden I called five Flyer where nol Coward lived. And that's a beautiful property, which is um, you know, adjacent to where we are, and it's about a thousand on feet up and it's that's really beautiful. But most of the

time right now, I'm spending it tonight. So I grew up on the East Coast, and I remember in the sixties Jamaica was a place that people went on a holiday and they bought property there, and it was all beach and vacation orient And then of course in the seventies, uh to a great degree, as a result of your work, a completely different picture of Jamaica comes across. What is Jamaica like today? There's Kingston, but there's a beach. Give us a feel for the country. Well, I think Jamaica

is grace at the moment. I think Jamaica has good management now. Really in general, I think it's doing really, really quite well. And it's it doesn't sort of markets a huge amount, but it's a it's definitely markets. The the hotels are available, and there are a lot of hotels in Jamaica in different locations. There's so many different parts of Jamaica which are uniquely different. You feel like you're in a another island. Um because you know, some some of the some of the land in Jamaica goes

up to seven thousand feet and some m hm. So it's it's very very you know. And then you go into the mountains, you can stop by where the people are growing coffee, you know, and get buy some coffee from them, and you know, it's it's a it's a great great countries. It's full of life. Okay, to what degree do the city and the locals interact with the beaches and the tourist areas, um, well, some I mean some people, some people love to go to the beach, go to swim, and some of them, some of them

really don't really care too much about it. They prefer to go in the hills, or in the or in the pastures or you know the country part in internal. So Jamaica just has so much variety literally that you know, you can you can spend a day driving across Jamaica and you see so many different different things different firstly, you know, different people, different different sort of towns and cities. Everything. It's it's it's very different, and it's very it's very

I didn't know. It's kind of fun. You know, the people have fun. The people. The people have a strong kind of character, but strong personality, and there's you feel that energy from the people. I certainly do, and I think I think most people do who come and visit. Okay, certainly a couple of decades ago, Jamaica had a reputation as being dangerous. Is it dangerous today or only dangerous

in certain areas? Well that in that period, which was the seventies the late seventies, there was a lot of political problems, you know, and so anti American or pro American or pro Castrow, you know, there was a lot of that going on at that time, and that's split the country a little bit, and so that was not a good time. And there was there was a lot of problems then. But it's not like that now. It's not like that now. It's much more settled. Okay, So

you're growing up in Jamaica. Are you living the life of a coddled rich kid? Are you integrating with the locals? What was your life like? Well, I grew up, I was you know, I was born in London and I arrived in Jamaica when I was about six months old and then came by sea, and I grew up in great luxury. Really the house that I grew up in was you know, a big house and lots of stuff and it was, you know, very luxurious in a way. But the problem was that I was sick all the time.

I had very bad asthma, and so really I didn't spend any time with other children, or didn't go to any parties, or didn't go to anything much. Pretty much was just stayed in in in one place. So at what age did you end up going to school in the UK and what's that experience like. Well, I was sent to education in England mainly because my father's mother, I was a Catholic, and she insisted that my father have me educated as a Catholic. So I went to

a Catholic school which was miserable. It was in London, just outside London, between London and with Windsor near a river, so the weather was just about the worst weather for somebody who had asked me the last thing you need to have is a damn wet ah, you know environment. And I was very sick there. And also I didn't get on with them there and they didn't get on with me. Didn't work at all. Well, I was only

there really for one one and a half terms. I got fired because I asked if my dog go to heaven and they said, of course, do come here to have and they took me just to leave school and you went back to Jamaica. Did you go back to school? We're done with school. I went back to Jamaica and I was at school for one term at the school in Jamaica. Then I was sent back to England and on this occasion it was two Broadstairs in Kent, which is a much more healthy environment right on the sea,

and that was much better. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed that that period very much, of course, at Peter's Court and in broad Stairs, Kent. And then from that I was able to get into posh school called Harrow, and again got into that school only because my family, um Blackwell family started acrossing Blackwell, which was a big sort of food firm back in my day, and and there are offices were very close to Harrow, so the you know that that family were embedded in in Harrow school

as it were. So I went to Harrow and I didn't really do too well there. Um, I didn't really and I didn't really do too there at all. In fact, I was sort of not exactly fired, but it was suggested that I might be happier elsewhere. Okay, so you're going to school, what kind of kid you are? Are you? Are you a ring leader, you're a loner? Your sports person? What we like? Uh? Probably none of those that are not not? Not Really, I wasn't. I wasn't a big troublemaker.

I didn't think I was. I got into trouble there because I used to go down and by liquor and cigarettes and self to the other kids, which I never touched liquor was cigarettes personally, but I used to do that, and I I got caught on that, and it was suggested that I might be happier elsewhere if I moved from there. So, unless they were, I was sixteen, I think. And did you have any more schooling after that? Y? M hm. And you come from a prestigious, wealthy family.

What do they think about their son who is not really achieving in school and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Well, my mother was always hoping. She was very good. She was always hoping that then you know, improve of it, and she was really helpful. My father wasn't so on top of it, as it were. He was somewhat of a wild man, and he was he was great, but he was and term he wasn't sort of chasing me up or giving me a hard time or anything. So my mom was the one who was sort of in charge.

So you come back to Jamaica, you're not going to school, what do you do? Trying to find something to do different things. One of the things was I was trying to bring in some scooters. I bought some scooters in England to sell in Jamaica. And I did that for a little bit, and then I did some I got a job working in real estate, so I worked in real estate for a little bit. M hm. And what else did I do? Just just the kind of things you'd expect. It's like an opportunity to do for something

and you kind of like it. You just kind of join it and get involved in it, I guess. And m h. That's that's really what what I was, what I was doing, and the thing which really pulled me in, of course, it was music because at Harrow. When I was at Harrow, I made friends with somebody who really had a great music collection. He had the music right from the sort of earliest period, New Orleans and music. And for a long time I was addicted to two music from New Orleans and and and jazz for sure.

I just love I just love that. And so when I was in Jamaica this time, later on, I started to go to see shows and things. And then, you know, one day, as said to I think I'd probably had a couple of drinks, it said to the band after they had finished playing. I said, oh, well, I think you guys were great. I'd love to record you guys, you know, And I didn't know how to record anybody. I didn't know anything about it. I just liked their

music at all. So a couple of days later, you know, a couple of them passed by and said, well, anything happening about this recording? And I said, oh, I'm sorry, yeah, well not definitely, definitely going to do it. Do it tomorrow. So that's what I did, and I rented the car the next day, van Volkswagen Van. And at that time I was teaching water skiing. That was my job that I'd made god for myself as a water ski instructor at the Halfmoon Hotel, and which is where the band

was playing. So when I drove into town, I went to the studio. I knew the person who owned the studio, and we went in and then the band played the first tune and then they all looked up at me, and I didn't know what to look. I didn't know what to do. I was and I just had no idea what to do. I couldn't believe that I was actually just sitting there and hearing this music they made. And so the leader of the band was blind, and he asked me, he said that would you like us

to do it again? And then said yeah, okay, and he started playing again. And then when he started playing again, I knew that that's what I wanted to do the rest of man, Okay, this entrepreneurial spirit, where did it come from? I don't know. I really didn't know. I don't know. Particularly I my mother's family. They were in the you know, bananas and coconuts, the steets and and and the wrong business too. In fact, I was supposed

to inherit the wrong business. Um, but my two uncles quarreled and tell apart, and and so the rom got sold to someone else, and um, I found myself with you know, that was not going to be in the roun business. So that I remember when it happened, I was kind of I wasn't hugely upset because I was already embedded in music. You know, and hanging around with musicians and and you know, and working with people and coming trying to come up with ideas and putting together

bands and things like that. Did you ever inherit any money from either side of your family? But by time it came, by time they died, was it all gone? H By the time they died, it was, yes, it was pretty much gone. Pretty much gone. Um, pretty much gone. My my my mother was was was fine, you know, she had a nice home Jamaica, and and it was but but the Linda family which was the name of the family, which were the run people, it sort of

collapsed and in that and that at that time. And so did I say, I was just from from from then on? I mean I was just in vote in music, you know, I was an addict. So how much did it cost to make that record? And how successful was it? And how did you sell it? The first record? Yeah, the one with the blind pianists? Well, uh, how much does it costs? Oh, less than a thousand dollars lessen yeah,

lessen five? Everything. It wasn't It wasn't most The main expense was flying up to New York too to get the album made and get it mastered, made, and then broke back to Jamaica. And then I get got the manufactured in Jamaica and the pressing plant and so the records at the hotel and did you make your money back? Was it profitable or no? Not not profitable. That's I knew that's what I wanted to do. You know, there was no doubt that that's what I wanted to do

in my life. It was for sure. What was the next step? Then, Well, the next step was that I'd go and go too shows. When there were shows that would have happen in cinemas. Cinemas would would you know, run a kind of a show where somebody would come out and lead the show, and and they would have booked three or four different bands or different individual singers or whatever for the show. And so I went to one of those and there was this guy saying and I thought, my god, this guy has got a really

good voice. His voice is very much like Brook Benton. At that time, Brook Benton was one of my very favorite artists. And I listened to it and I really liked it. And and when the show was over, I went backstage and I went to see him and they said, oh, I'd like, I'd like to record you know, I think you sound really good. You sound like And there was another singer around just who came up and said, well

what about me? And then another person came around and said what about and and so I ended up recording those three guys. And the first guy was a guy called Laura Ankin, and I put I put his art was called Boogie in My Bones, and it went to number one in Jamaica. And then I put out the other guy's record and it went to number one a couple of weeks after that, and then released the other record and that went to number one. And the reason these records all went to number one is not because

they were masterpieces or anything. It was more because Jamaicans were hearing Jamaican's singing um rather than singing Calypso's or um. You know, cultural music. They were they were they were they were sort of hearing music as if it might have been coming from America a bit something like that. So that's really how it started and continued to grow. I mean, all the records I put out really did well.

I mean it was amazing. Uh And as I say, but it's just because of the reason I just gave you because it was, um, Jamaican's listen to Jamaican's there. And then when things started to expand was that when England started to want the records from Jamaican. So I used to shipp them to a guy who had the jazz label in England who he released them for me

and they sold in England. So then as we were now in nineteen sixty one, um in nineteen six two is when Jamaica became independent, and in view of my complexion, I thought, well, maybe that was the time to go to so so UM, I went to England and I spoke to all the other DJs and sound system guys and producers and everybody and said, you know, I'm going

to England. I'm going to you know, make these This music happened in England, and um, all the people kind of supported me in Jamaica, which was which was great. Unless they supported me, I mean, they'd send their recordings for me and I put them out and I had the right. The best time in England was just driving around the periphery of London in the areas where that Jamaicans lived and visiting different little record shops here and

there and I was loving every minute of it. I had just a little Mini Cooper and I was whipping around, you know, and it was just that it was just fantastic because it was something that I loved doing, and here it was. It was coming alive and people were, you know, buying them. The worst damn thing happened was when one large stock called Broadmeats it was called at

that time. They had a berry and somebody some few guys that come in and robbed the the there's the store and it'd taken all the records out of the store except Island. I mean, that was that was That was a low. I learned the level I thought making accompany. They would buy all the other records, but don't buy one of mine. They stayed in there, but that that

I'll never forget that one. I couldn't believe it. And it is this company Island self supporting, or you're living on money from your parents, or you just scratching by, you've got enough money in your pocket to go spend a little. Now, I was just on my own, on my own. I didn't take I wask anny money from my parents. But but my mom did, did you know, pay for me too to have an apartment. So I had, I had a base in England, but other than that, I didn't. Okay, So how did you find really small?

As I was saying, lots of different people were producing records. There was Cox, you know, there was Duke re Reed. They were about ten different people who were making records in Jamaica. About about five of them were Chinese and five of them were Jamaica and another couple. One was an Australian guy and the other was me, And that was pretty much who released the records in the market in Jamaica. So when I had gone to England, they

would send me records in England to release. Yeah, And one of the records that was sent to me was called wheel Meat and it was a song by Roy and Milly. It was done by Coxon and it started out with the guy singing the first verse and then the guy saying the second verse, and then the girl saying the third verse, and that was Milly. And it was a very high pitch voice, but it was it was it was great. I mean, you you either loved it or you hated it because it was a sort

of high pitch voice. But you know, there was something about it, which was really fun. And so I thought, well, I've got to try and find it, got to try and find a record form, you know, another record, and h I found what I used to do when I was flashing a bit back to Jamaica now, But when I was in Jamaica and would go to New York.

I go to New York and I'd go to this there are a lot of record stores on the sixth Avenue in New York, and I'd go and buy forty five and I'd bring them back and I would sell them to the sound system because the sound system guys, that was the music business in Jamaica. That was the whole life of it. You know. It was really exciting because these guys created these huge speakers, massive speakers, and you could hear the music from to three miles away,

you know, blasting it was and it was incredible. It was really a trip and that I'd go to all those events, you know, and I was pretty much the only person with my complexion there, but everybody by then it's kind of got used to me and forgured that, you know, you know, I was okay as well. And so coxin Um the record that he sent me will meet, and I decided to bring it to England because she

had such a unique voice. I wrote to her mother and asked if she would send her to England and and and she did and what when she came to England, I had already brought also a guitarist Jamaican guitarists called Ernest Wrangling to England try and get Ronnie Scott's club. Um and he was, you know, really excellent musician, still is he still around? And with Milly, I was really

looking for a song. So I met with with the Ernest Rangelan and with Milly and a couple of other people and played through some of the songs that I used to buy, records that I used to buy to sell to the sound system guys when I was in Jamaica. So some of those records I kept, you know, I just had on on tape just because I liked them. I wasn't manufacturing any of them, but I just liked them.

So when I was having this meeting with Ernest Rangeland and Milly in the room and somebody else, we were going through these tapes and one of them came up and it was called My Boy Lollipop. And I thought, wow, the sounds great. The sounds just right for Milly, and Ernest rang and said, he ever, does that sounds good?

So we decided that we were recorded. UM. My plan was initially to produce the record um, and I didn't produce it in the studio because in those days you couldn't go in the studio unless all the musicians could read music. So back in the day, you know, I couldn't read music. Ernest wrangling. Fortunately the guitarists could read music, so he he sort of gave the the directions to

the English musicians who are playing. So when I recorded it that the first sort of rough recording, I thought, what, this sounds great, and so the only thing is that I think it's a bit long. They said, well, what do you mean a bit long? It's only you know, two minutes and fifty seconds or something. I said, now that's too long. So people said, well, um, why it's too nice. I just I just think it's too long.

I really like it to be much shorter. So we recorded it much shorter and it was one minutes and fifty eight seconds. And it's definitely the smartest thing that I've done so far, because you know, Milly's voice is a high pitched voice, and high pitched voices tremendous if it's not going on for too long. But if it's going on for too long, you don't really want to hear it again. If it's if it's very short, you want to hear it every now and again all the time.

And really that's what happened the record. I knew the record when it was finished. I knew that it was going to be a huge hit, and they also knew that it couldn't go on Island Records because Island Records was a tiny little company. And I had learned a lot when I used to go up to New York to all the independent labels, and you know, one one year you come and they had had a huge year. In the next year you come and then the record

would come out and they were out of business. Because you know, the people who would buy the records and the record stores would only really buy the they'd buy if it was a hit, you know. So if if something came out and it didn't really it didn't really it wasn't really an immediate hits as far as they were concerned, they wouldn't really do anything much for it, and and then the company would find themselves out of business.

So I licensed I licensed it Phillips. Phillips at that time owned what is now PolyGram, what is now Universal whatever. So you first and foremost, let's talk about the record. The record had an incredible zinc. Yes. Was it something that just was magic in the studio or was it cup multiple times? How did you get that? I mean the record just jumped out of the radio. It was done two times. We did one take and then we did another take and that and that was it. It

just it just I guess some luck. We all need some luck. It just clicked, you know, the band clicked, which was like a miracle because you know, uh, the you know, they didn't know they never played anything like that before music before, so but it just happened and and uh m hm, it was it. Well, it's something I can't they ever forget because you know, when I just took it out and played it, it was it was something that if you played it, people would say, I've got to take that with me. I mean they

had to take that with me. It was that which was that kind of level. But it's sold seven thousand records. It was number two to the Beatles. Can you imagine? Well, I just remember the record. My mother had to buy it. We had it in the house just because it was so amazing. But you said you knew it as soon as you heard it. There are certain transcending songs I have to ask in your career generally speaking, did you know that level of hit or was that rare and

you didn't really know? Well, I know that level of what I think is great, which made me right and maybe wrong, you know, so I don't. I don't. I wouldn't say that if it's if it's something that I feel, Wow, this is just you know, well, that's what happens. And if when you're recording, if you if you were recording and it is something that just has worked. You know, the rhythm sections working, the vocal is working, the balance is working, everything is working. It's fantastic when that happens.

You know, it's just it's just if you're Flori. You know what are a couple other records you got that same feeling from, Oh Gosh, Keep on Running. Keep on Running was the first record that I did with the Spencer Davis Group, which was Steve Winwood and and that that record. The song was written by a Jamaican guy, The same Jamaican I was telling you about a little earlier. Was the first guy I heard singing like Bendon. I brought him over to England to help me deliver the

records to the record store. And and he wrote that song. And see Win would sing that song and that southing and any others you can remember that had that magical feeling. Definitely definitely them been song. But I can't remember right now. Let's go reverse. Are there a couple you got that feeling and they stiffed? Uh? I don't remember that. Maybe that may well be possible because I don't want to remember it. Okay, So let's set the stage. Needless to say,

the Beatles break in UK and uh sixty two. They don't break in America until sixty four. You're a guy who's tied into the Jamaican sound. Uh, Millie Small's record is sort of a SKA record. What was it like in England? Right there? Well, when the Beatles exploded, that was it? I mean, I mean the Beatles weren't really pretty incredible? What what what they produced? What they did really incredible and and that that was what that drove the whole British music industry, whereas before, you know, it

was all about America. Really, um, England didn't really have too much happening that I can remember, which sort of reached people, you know, playing music, listening to music, not not like America because that you know, all that that blues music came from American, out from America, and you know, whether it's Chicago, New Orleans or in Atlanta whatever, m

hm um. The the music was coming out of America until the Beatles, the blast and then you know, and then sort of ruled ruled everything for a good few years. And so do you remember when you first heard the Beatles were exposed to the Beatles? Yes, and I remember liking it, definitely like it. Absolutely. There wasn't anything I didn't like about them. But I wasn't a Beatles fan. I was more Rolling Stones fan. Okay, so you were more of a blues based fair. So you tour the

world with Millie Small. You have this ultimate success, but you also have an insight that this is really not you want to proceed you mean with Millie Oh, I mean in business you were basically sort of like the movie The Idol maker a little bit more. You created this thing. It was incredible. There's a lot of effort. It was singles based on what it's all said and done. According to your book this year, this is not a

direction I want to go in a different direction. Well, yes, because because uh, you know, the Beatles had driven something and there were a lot of There are a lot of bands which evolved, a lot of them whether they come from Liverpool or London or over and and a lot of them. Um also went to Um. I'm trying to remember that the city in Germany where did they comberg? Yeah, so I went. I went to Hamburg and I saw a band there and I love that band. Um. I

brought them back there. They evolved into to the form names and trying to remember them now that that that their name got changed, and then every time the name got changed, the name was worth Remember we were trying. I remember being really frustrated with it. We couldn't get get get it, get it right. Okay, So you make the record and nothing happened. It's a little bit, it's a little bit what what was what was really happening? After Milly was initially the Spencer Davis Group, which evolved

into Traffic, Okay, a little bit slower. All of a sudden, the Beatles are gigantic in America. It's the British invasion, all these bands from Liverpool, etcetera. Are you trying to find some of those bands? Are you saying I'm going in the other direction? How do you view that you're going to compete? Well, in that early stage, I was still they pretty much focused on the Jamaican music coming

from Jamaica, so that was my main main thing. So I was doing some other recordings, but the Jamaican one was the one which was sort of steady, which you know, everybody in the company pretty much knew what they were doing and what we were after and how we were trying to reach different markets, etcetera. But the I'm trying I'm trying to think, I mean the Spencer Davis group,

which which evolved into Traffic. That that was a major thing for me because when would you know, as you know, it's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant musician, and you know, when when I had first seen him play, I couldn't I couldn't believe that he was, you know, playing keyboards and singing at the same time and then you know he's playing guitar and then you know it was It was incredible. So Traffic Traffic was sort of absolutely the main strong

band in that period in time. And then once that was happening, then people start to come come towards you a bit, you know, and they would maybe try to get on that label because Steve when was on that Lebel you know what I mean. So I think that that that helped attract different talents to come and want to work and work with that. So how did you discover the Spencer David's group and was no one else interested? How did you prevent someone else signing them out from

underneath you? Somebody rang me and tell me, you know, you should come up to birming and the band's in Birmium. I said, well, well, as it happens, I have to come up next Sunday because I have to go with Milly because she's doing a TV show. So I said, I'll come up and then after the TV show meet you downstairs and then we'll go and drive around and listen.

So that's that's what happened. I went there, I met the guy, the guys whose name I should absolutely be able to tell you, but I can't remember his name. And he he took me to see one band. I didn't really like the band too much because they had a kind of uniform one and I hated kind of uniform kind of things. So I would I'd like. I like the funkyness, you know. That's why I like the zones of Little More, you know, funking and everything. So

anyhow I went. I went to that first and really like and then the guy said, well, I'll take you to another place. I don't know if you like it or not, but there's that. It's a band. It's just like three three four band, but you can come and see them, so is it okay? So I drove around with him, and Milly was with me and the car too because we just come from the TV show. And we went there, started walking up some stairs and you

could hear somebody's singing with a great voice. I was walking up the next row of stairs, and I could hear the singing more more clearly in the music. More clearly in the music was something really great, and the singing was sounding really great. It sounded like I've always used the example like Ray Charles on Helium, because you know it was like Gray Charles sort of way of singing, but the picture of his voice was different. And then finally when I got upstairs into the room, there was

this kid who was sixteen I think he was. He might have been seventeen. I think he was sixteen singing by I mean whaling, really singing, playing the keyboards, playing organ, playing piano, playing guitar, everything, And I couldn't I just couldn't believe it. Now, in those days, those days, now we're talking about ninety three or maybe sixty four. Those days, the the record companies in England were E. M. I, Decker, Phillips,

and a pie Em. I was the biggest, Decker was the second biggest, Phillips the third, pie the fourth, and that was pretty much it. And but none of the heads of the companies would go out go out to listen to bands. I mean they wouldn't. People wouldn't leave

their office to go and see a band. None of those people, I mean, any of those people could have signs to Swinsondavor School Win one if they had gone out and no, nobody, nobody could have denied signing him if they hadn't, you know, had they not seen him so, um, what happened was that I said to the guys, I'd love to record you guys. They say, I'd love to record you guys, dinog and they said, well when I couldn't record, I said, I don't know, four or five days.

That's incredible because again, and those days you couldn't get studio organized. You know, it wasn't you know, there was nobody out there finding or follow growing up or catching or promoting or pushing you know, somebody like like the Spencer Davis group that by Steve Winwood that time. It was just incredible. So that's what happened. So a few weeks later I went to the studio and um, I did this one song with that written by that same thing.

I told you the first guy when I was in the and the shows in Jamaica back in the day, his name was Wilfrid Edwards called him Jackie Edwards. Wilfrid was just and so their first set was keep on Running and it was written by Will for whatever the Jackie Wilfrid. Now, when you would make a deal with the band, you know, certainly evolved people would make these deals. In California, we have the seven year rule. But not in other countries. Would you sign them for a single?

Would you tie them up at a low royalty rate? What was the business side like you signed them for? I didn't know, like two or three albums something like that. I can't remember now because that all changed as as everything got big up and got got wider and got more, you know, more most powerful. In general, it's it changed a bit, It all changed, keep on running, certainly legendary track, but when it comes to traffic. The two iconic songs are I'm a Man and give Me Some Loving? I mean,

give Me Some Loving. Sounds as fresh today as it did yesterday. Can you tell us a story on that? I can't remember who wrote the song, but I do remember recording it, and I do remember thinking it's huge. And which one was that? Give Me something? Give Me some Loving? And I'm a Man. Yeah, I'm a man. Who wrote I'm a Man? I have to look it up. I can't remember. I'm a Man was written by uh Winwood and Jimmy Miller. Okay, which which wind with Steve

Winwood or muf WinWin Yeah, Steve Winwood, Steve Winwood. Oh that's right, Well, Jimmy Miller was somebody I found in in New York and he was he was a producer in New York, and I brought him over to England and and he he did great work in England, firstly with Traffic and then with the Running Stones. Okay, so what was his magic? You know? Also he died way before his time, but the records, forget the ones with Traffic, the ones he cut in that middle period with Stones

were just iconic. What did he bring to the studio? He was very talented. It was very talented. He had one problem, you know, which is one of those problems which damaged so many people in music and things. But he had a great taste in music and a great energy and an ability to sort of just be a leader as it were. You know, he'd be really like sort of leading the leading the song as if he's as if as if he was a conductor kind of thing. And okay, you know that Steve is bigger than the

rest of the group. How does it evolve in the Traffic? Because he Steve wanted to I didn't want to really continue working exactly with the uh Spencer David's group. Um, and I think he was more into well, I don't think I know he was more interested in working with Dave Mason, Jim Capoldi and Chris Wood, who are pals of his, who you know, he just really got on well with, whereas before, remember he was much younger than

and the others. He was very young, so he was sort of he was wanting to sort of make a jump. I think it was sort of jumping up to a another level. I would say, Okay, So ultimately Traffic makes two albums, there's turmoil, Dave Mason is in the group, not in the group. First record as iconic songs, generally they're covered, they're not really hits for Traffic at that time. Second album unbelievable. Then the band says it's going to

break up. So do you remember whin Would ultimately going to play with Blind Faith and your part in that, Yes, yes, I remember that. I'll tell you what I tell you. My reading of what happened is Chris Would, who everybody loved he was at sax Player, but he really was kind of I could get very out of it, and I think probably what really happened one day it was just too much and he didn't never turned out for the show in New York Bill Graham put it on.

I can't remember the place I should remember when would barely even played himself on it. He was so angry and it seemed that, you know, there their relationship or music relationship I think, drifted away a lot. And also I didn't know what else it might have been. That's the only thing I can think of, because Jim Capoli was very important in Traffic because he wrote, he wrote ms, the lyrics and and it was just Woody, you know, Chris, Chris wood was it was was a bit was a

bit faking, you know. So you had windward side, you know, you have to give permission for him to be in Blind Faith? What did you think then? And did you get a piece? How did you get compensated? Well? Blind Faith was a joint venture with Stigwood. That's that's that's that's how that happened. Um, because the it was Eric and Ginger. Yeah, not to be difficult, Okay. So you have this huge success with Traffic islands on the map. What comes over the transom next? Well, Free, I would say,

is one of them. You know the band folk called Free? Of course I do. And I know Paul Rodgers who can still saying like he used to. So you hear Paul. You know, how did you find Paul Rogers? Somebody told me one day he said, you know there's a band. There's a band playing at the at the Wardo and so, and he said that they're really young band. He said, but you should go see them. They're really good. So I went to see them, and I couldn't believe it.

They were. They were very young. Was one of them was tour and the rest of them were about, you know, we're tiny, and they were very strong. The band was very strong. And I went backstage after they finished and I said, listen to you. Guys are really great. I really think you're great. I'd love you to come and come to my office tomorrow and let's meet and see if we can work out something. So they said okay.

So the next morning I went there early and there was a guy who was working with me, a brilliant, brilliant guy called Guy Stevens. Was a real music fanatic, American black music particular, but really talented really in many ways as a writer, as a designer, everything, and he was like a sort of my number number two guys who you know, would help me. And I saw him

in the morning. And what I forgot, I told you was that when I saw them the night before, I said, I said, I said to them, and I said, the only thing that I don't really like is that I don't really not too keen on the name free. So and then I left that night. But the next next morning I met guys Stevens and I said, listen, I'm meeting these kids. They're incredible. I heard them played last night. They were really incredible. I said, but I don't really

like the name free. Because you put free, people are going to think it's a free freaking show, and so they're coming and I don't really like that name. So he said, well, I've got a name. I got a going the name for you. So it's okay. Well that's great. So then the band come in a little later, four of them, led by Andy Fraser, who's just fifteen. He's

the leader of the band. And they come in. We sit down and chatting a bit, and and then we we guy Guy Stevens comes in the office to say hello, and I say, this is a guy Sevens says hello, said and I just wanted him to come up with to to recommend another name because I don't. I'm not really keen on the name free because people will think it's a free show or something and want to come in.

And so they laughed at such a guy, stevemens So then so the guys Semens was there and and Andy Phrases looks at guys sevens and says, so, what name is that you have planned for us? And guys Stephen said the heavy metal kids. So Andy Fraser looks back at me and he says, if you want to sign us, our name is free. Little fucker. You know, he was in control from that moment, and he was just brilliant. He was the leader of the band, and they were fantastic,

really fantastic. Really sadly, you know, there's a couple of them gone, really sadly. Paul Rockers teams to this day that Paul Kossoff is the best guitars he ever worked with. And he certainly we worked with Brian May and Jimmy Page and of course uh Kasoff ultimately died on a plane ride to do gigs in the UK from the US. How good was Paul kas Off? What do you think of fantastic? He was absolutely fantastic, But he had an addiction, you know, and I mean, and he was in shocking shape.

I had. I had a situation with him once. Once I was doing a record with Jim Capaldi and muscle shows and somehow I had asked Kossof to come down and and so Kossoff was in the studio, Jim Coppolis in the studio, and then you know, we were wrapping up. It was the end of the time, and I was I was going back to Los Angeles and Paul Kassof was going to come back with me to the Los Angeles and Jim copor Who's going to go to England? So muscle shows, you know, as I don't know if

it's still is I'm sure it is. You know, you couldn't get a drink, you couldn't get anything. Then there's nothing. I mean. I I asked the guy who ran and Jimmy Johnson who ran muscle shows, and said, what do you what do you do here? And he said, and what do you do in this time? And he said wow. Now and again we go to the airport and watch

him rent the corp and and he was great. But when when we when we left to go to drive to the airport to fly to l A. We stopped in this little cafe and coss off and ordered this food food at the food mashed potatoes and beef and stuff like that. And then he kind of collapsed in the middle of it and his face fell down and splashed of the food. And there was a huge it was a huge guy just walked up, finished his dinner and walked up. He was walking by a huge guy.

I mean, it's scared than a guy. And and and he looked at Paul Kass often he said. He didn't even say anything. He was just laughed and course off terms of why don't you just fuck off? I could believe it. I could believe it. I thought I thought we were gonna be dead and buried right then and there m h. And then we went on too and stayed in the light for a bit. Okay, you know there's any the anthology on A and M called More Gold just unreal, I mean, an unheralded band. There's so

much stuff on there that was not successful commercially. But the third album, Fire and Water has all right now, you know, I kind of kit from the fall of Summer in fall of nineteen seventy with an incredible riff that becomes their one big successful track in American worldwide? Did you know that was going to be that big? But I'll tell you that youruth. I projuced it record, but I honestly didn't feel it was anything like as good as it could have been. I don't know why,

because because it's been very successful, very very successful. Mhm. But I I thought I thought it could have been better. What what? What what I'd done? Because I I recorded it and the thing which I don't know, I just I just I just thought it could have been better. I didn't know why. Okay, sometimes you're producing, sometimes you're not.

How do you decide to produce an act? Well, if I feel I can contribute, if not, And okay, let's use a couple of your production examples like We've all right now and the first B fifty two albums for album, what do you think you could contribute? There? Nothing? Nothing,

because they had it all down. They were fantastic. They all arrived in Nassa, Bahamas, and the Nasso, Bahamas they would charge the government would charge fortune for bringing in equipment and you know, usually you had to sort of pay to the government fifty six dollars to you, you know, which they'd hold onto until all the instruments was shipped back out of massal. In their case, it was it was like four hundred dollars that they came. It was all it was all toy to toy instruments. It was

unbelievable and it really was. And they went in the studio and it was all toy instruments. And I don't know, I loved I enjoyed so much that I wish I could tell you that, you know, I didn't had contributed the tool to any production. I didn't. They did themselves completely. But I enjoyed so much. I liked them so much. But they were they were they were they were just

they were special, they really were. So you end up making deals with companies and ended up turning into Crystalis and e g. You know, when Jeff wrote, how does Jeff Rode told? How do roxy music? How do they come to you? Gestel came to me with the band I had, which was I think it was called Spooky Tooth at that time. And when whenever a band would go touring and come back to the office, you know, asson,

did you see anything here, anything, etcetera. Etcetera. And one of the guys you should remember his name because he was the needs of the band. Um you probably have it right there. Um. Uh he was, he was the leader. Then well you know in the band, but I wouldn't Gary, he he was the one. Uh. And I said, or did you see anybody? And Gary said, and he sort

of kind of giggled and laughed shyly. He said, well, there was this act I saw who I thought was really kind of funny, stood on one leg playing the flute, and I said, I love it, I love it. I must find so I went off to it and I rang, and I found out who who was sort of identified with him, and that was Terry Ellis and Chris Wright, both of whom were still in college. And so it was Terry Ellis I spoke to and I said, I

love to sign these guys, and so he did. And then the deal I made with him was because it wasn't really my kind of music. I just love the idea of it. The record did very well, the first record, and then thereafter I passed him on Christmas? And what about the guys with the e G. Roxy Music? Were Roxy music? Roxy music? Rocky music? Really great did very

well in England, very well in England. I think at that at the time that rocky music was all important, was the time that I was starting getting involved with Bob Money. Okay, so Catch Stephens, how did you get

involved with Catch Stephens? Because somebody was chasing me up all the time that I should see him and meet with him, and I was not really that interested because I had seen him on to do a show on television, which I thought was weird because his first I don't know if you know, his first record was I Love my Dog More Than I Love You or my Cat bother nine one or the other kind of which I had seen him on television, or a dressed in clothes which would be like from from you know, the him

alayask and of things kind of clothes and he was singing something which that that's right. The song he was singing was I'm going to get me a gun, That's right, I remember, that was it. I thought, it makes no sense that he's singing a song calling and he get me a gun and he's dressed and his clothes. That didn't make any sense. So it wasn't that I was also chasing after him. It's just that the TV said it come on, and I saw that, and I didn't, you know, I just I didn't think. I didn't think

much about it. But later somebody rang me and continued to ring me and continued to ring me, and eventually I said, okay, well, then send him to come come by. And eventually he came by, and he came with his guitar, took off his guitar and started to play a song and it was good. He played it on the song and it was good, and then he played father and Son.

And when he played that song, I stopped him then and then said, that's fantastic, and definitely I wanted to talk to you about things, doing something when you come come on island instead. Well, I can't come on island because I'm on Ami. I'm on Decca. I said, yeah, but Decca, your last records have been sold on Becca and you know, and you should try Ireland. So he said, well, how can I get off Decca? And I said, well,

what did your last record do? The last record had been sold, So I said to him, who is your a m R. Man? He said that they grow I said, oh, the crow, the clothes I know the crow he's he's actually the person who passed on the Beatles and he said, yeah, that's And I said, well, why don't you call him and say, you've got this record that you want to do,

which you're passionate about. You're going to need that, You're gonna need it's going to be need to be a good budget because I want to do it with the London London Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus. And I said, I think it might give you a release. So he loved. So that was that, and in fact that's what he did. He went off and said, I want to do this recording. This is this is it. This is the only thing I want to do. I really want to do this,

and h Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus and he passed. And then I started, so what did you think when he said he was going to stop making records having had his religious conversion. That was the day that that um Money died. Can you imagine, Well it was coming to that because he was knock up. He wasn't a happy guy um during that latter part and then he was. He wasn't he just wasn't happy. He's he's an incredible person. Wonderful person, but he was not. He was not a

happy guy in that period. And I think from what I had what Anderson he he went out swimming in in the in the sea and them in Los Angeles, and then and she became very rough and he got very scared and promise, ah, promises, God, you would you know, changed to his religion. If you say that's that's pretty much I might not have got it exactly right. Pretty much what always told me. Let's talk about distribution in America.

Some of these albums came out on Warner, some came out on A and M. How did you decide and why didn't you? Or was it a matter of making an exclusive and shifting labels? What was going on there? I didn't really sort of have a label in in America at a time. At the time I did have one, but before that I didn't have one, and so I wanted to put the record with whoever I thought would do a good job. So, for example, Cat Seamans went to them and warners, do you decide Bob Marley is

going to be the next big thing? Or you say, well, this is another guy I can work with. It happened by chance again where somebody rang me and said could you do me a favor? I said, what is it? Said? Could you could you meet with Bob Marley and the Whalers because they're sound stranded in England and they don't have their airfare back to Jamaica because the manager they had had given them there yeah budget to get back

to Jamaica. So I said, okay. I said okay because three days before Jimmy Cliff, who I've been working with for ages, and it was all important because you know, I got into to go and do the film harder they come, because I felt that could bring the you know, the Jamaican music scene, m hope open to the world more so. And he did that and he acted in that, and he did really really good in that, but he didn't make any money on it because the film, you know,

the film came out some time later. So when he had been sort of I had told him previously that you know that that I've got to re read tell you this because what what had happened with Jimmy Cliff was that E M I wanted to sign him and then at the same time as when Perry Hinson wanted to make the film and I suggested that he should really do the film. Don't sign am I, because do the film and you'll still make money with with me.

So he did the film. But the film came on and off and on and off and on and off, and it took a very long time and he didn't make any money. When when the year old came by, and he hadn't made any money, and he was absolutely within his right to say, well, now I'm going to go to e m I because you told me I wouldn't. I didn't. And so when he did say that, I was I was upset. But he was within his rights completely and that was that, and I was very upset.

And then the next day is when I get this call from the person asking if I would meet with Bob Marley and and funny way that and he's a toash because they all stranded in London, and I said yes, and so they came by. He came to see me, and they walked in like kings. You know, they didn't look like they were busted or anything. They were strong, definitely strong. And I chatted to them for a bit and I asked them what their plans are and one

of them said that I think. Bunny said that way wanted to get on American black radio, and I said, I didn't think you have a hope of getting on American black radio. So and it just came out of my mouth way too fast, and it should have done. I guess they were very upset that said that, you know, Pizza and Bunny, and then Bob piped up and said, Bob, what, but what do you think? And then said, I think I think I think you should we'll have a black rock act, position yourself as a kind of black rock

act rather than keep doing just to making music. So there was a mix there. Bob saw it and agreed it, and the other two didn't agree, and the other two sort of then split and Bob stayed on, but they all they all stayed on as friends and everything. But that's that's really how that happens. Okay, catch a Fire is the first album. What do you do to make it sound more rock rock radio friendly? I got a

guitarists from from Corwayne Perkins from muscle shows. I've been working with him in muscle shows, brilliant and I just wanted they wanted that. I wanted that kind of feel. And there was another keyboard player. Uh who also was you know a musician not not not not just reggae musician and he he was on it. So Bob Marley makes multiple albums, all too great reviews. But it's a very very slow build. What was it like from the inside? Uh, solid is all I can say. You know. I wasn't.

I wasn't. It wasn't in a rush. I just felt it was something that could could really grow because it was growing, you know, it was just it didn't it didn't explode, It just grew. It's still growing. And to what degreed you believe the live album from the Lyceum put him over the top, which is my perspective, but

you're inside the building, so to speak. Yes, well that was a key thing again one of those things that happened by chance, because he was doing a gig about a month before that show in l A at the Roxy. And when I was watching it and it was it was it was quite something because I was it was so important, you know, I called it for what I knew to be there and everything, how important it was.

And then and then when Bob and then came out to play, they didn't play, you know, he didn't he had his back to the audience was like rehearsing, and that fo sake, it started when he's going to get started and everything. And eventually when he did turn around and start, the audience sort of stood up and things like that. It's it's that it was very scary to me because it was such an important thing, and I

was really worried that it wasn't going to work. But they'd say when it when it turned around and started, it worked. And we're talking about the Lyceum now, the Lyceum. I called London that that same evening because that same evening, in the in the back of the theater, theater, back back of the club, in one corner, a lot of girls were all singing, no woman, no crying, and I thought, wow, we must record that, must record them when they play

in London. So I contacted the Stones and booked the Rolling Stones, and Rolling Stones said the mobile studio, and that's what happened. We wrote. Okay, you know, hard to discern the truth, but I remember when Bob got cancer, the word was that he amputated his foot. He would have survived, but he wouldn't let them. What's the true story. That's the true story. There's no way he would he would have his toe amputated. Why because he loved sucking as much as he loved music. And how did he

handle the inevitable end. He he handled it very obviously. It was all it was all very sad because he was, you know, there was nothing good shape. I went to see him a couple of times when he was in Germany. H he was, it was something good shape, you know. Did he he ever expressed regret that he didn't have his toe ampudated? No? No, m okay. So, uh, how did you decide to build a studio a campus point? I knew I didn't want to be recording in Jamaica, there was I don't know, I don't know. I don't

know why I started the studio then in Nassa. I mean I know a reason why, and that was because you know, when you when you there's studios in a city that tend to be a lot of people come and hang around, and you get too many people hanging around and that can be really a nightmare. In Nassa, there was nobody, so there was nobody to kind of interfere and come in and come out. And I got this tune and I got that, and I like this

more and that and stuff like that. I wanted. I wanted somewhere which was just away from anywhere, and and it worked. It worked. We had some great recordings there. How did Fly and Robbie get involved. I brought them in. I brought them in, absolutely. I brought them in to work with Grace because I wanted to you know, Grace Jones's first record so quite well, second record, so half of that, third record, so half of that. So I thought we should should I should change producers and and

decided to make myself a producer. So that's that's that's what I did. Really, I I wanted to bring the Jamaican Jamaican rhythm section and Jamaican that musicians and bring in from Europe a musician who played an instrument called profits At the time, it was a new instrument and he had relieved made one record which had been a

huge hit throughout Europe. So I got hold of him, got him to come and they also I got the guitarists who played on Merry and Faithful record, which is a beautiful record if you don't know it, about the Broken English record. Yes, the phenomenal record. So I brought him down and it was it was a risk because you know Jamaican musicians that they can be tough, you know.

And so they arrived at the studio and he has Wally Badaroux who is from West Africa, very effeat um pitch black guy, very very classy, and then there was Barry Reynolds and you know, looked at first it could be a little bit of a problem because they weren't kind of getting on at first. And then and then I I turned up and I think I managed to

pull them together. And what I did was take this large picture which Jean Paul Good, Grace's boyfriend, baby father, et cetera, had made this record, I'm sorry, made this art and it was it was a group of great photograph of Grace dressed like a sort of g I sitting down like a sort of gr really tough thing, and I had didn't blow it up very big and in the studio and I told I told the band, I said, the record we're going to be doing, it's

got to look like this picture. So um so everybody thought, I guess it was a bit bit nuts, but that's what we did. And in the first day it looked as if it wasn't gonna work, because, you know, they Wally Bad and the Jamaicans were really hitting it off. And then the second day, after Wally Barou had played something they couldn't believe, you know, how talented he was. They hadn't experienced profit equipment before, so they were they

were certainly behind it. And and from then on it was just it was it could not have been, that could not have been better. We recorded, We just kept recording, recording three albums pretty much. Okay, what about Robert Palmer? Ultimately did his cocaine use kill him? I think it damaged him, Yes, yes, yes, and it's really sad he Honestly, he's one of the best of all. I learned a huge amount from him. I learned anything that I had

known and learned was from him about African music. So it was really through him that I signed Kizzania day first, and then Sealef Guitar and angel Ki Show and all the different I got totally into the African world. But he he knew the music real he was so he was so smart, so smart that he had a rotten manager guy who was a rotten guy. H it goes, this goes on there, probably because the person still around,

but it was a terrible terrible guy. Terrible terrible guy, and you know, encouraged Robert to do what he should not be doing and didn't do anything about really keep him under control or getting him under control any any I'm sure it could have been done if the person that really cared enough for they didn't care. And it was very sad. I mean, I love Robert prom he was like, I don't know, he felt like a brother to me. I learned. I learned a lot from him, I really did. And how do you feel when he

had left the label? I was upset, he was upset. He didn't he didn't he didn't want to his manage and moved in there. Okay, so you have this great success with you two, which is on distributed on Warner, and then you don't have enough money to pay them the royalties ultimately given percentage of the company. Go a little deeper into what happened there. Well, one evening I went back to my apartment in New York and I've stitch on the radio and I heard the most incredible

drumming by by a drama musician. It was. It was a song, but the drum pattern was just incredible and I just couldn't leave it. I've never heard anything so good. So I tracked down where it came from, and I've on that it came from Washington, d C. So I thought, well, I'd go down and check it out. So I went down and I checked checked it out. And there was a whole scene coming out of Washington, d C. At that time. But it was very tough. I mean it was,

you know, it was very dangerous at that time. And I I heard this one band, I thought they were great, and then I saw another band. I thought they were great, and I thought, you know something, maybe what what we should do is what we did when the hard did they come to do a film which can project what story is all about. And so that's what I did.

I decided to do and I decided to do it with a with a partner, a man, a good friend of mine called Jeremy Thomas, was a really excellent filmmaker, and he said he'd helped on it, but he was waiting for a film that he had been prepared for, which was called The Last Emperor, and he was waiting until they could start shooting on that. So he said,

I might have to leave sometimes. So anyhow we got started and then boom, the last temper suddenly got the girl ahead to get financed and get done, and he left. And I know nothing about making movies, and so you know, I put some more money in when things weren't doing

too good they are et cetera. And ultimately it's you know, the film wasn't really much good and so the music didn't get any attention, didn't happen, and that was that, and that's what that's what ultimately caused me to so so iland and do that to the arrangement I did with them, you too, first, you know, So I mean nobody got hurt. Okay, in retrospect, nobody got hurt. What happens when you tell Paul McGinnis, I don't have the money to pay you. All I knowed there was no

there was no bad vibes. It was you know, it was something which was wrong and could be fixed. And so it got fixed. You know. I gave them a piece of the company and everything. Okay, So that was part of the deal. You said, listen, I can't afford to pay you, and I'll give you part of the company. It wasn't like you were negotiating back and forth. He said, I'd I'd like a piece of the company. No, So how did you ultimately decide to sell? I think I

think because I really screwed that whole thing up. You know, the It was a bit of bad luck. But I've had a lot of good luck, but it was a bit of bad luck. Thing of the the last temper suddenly being available where it was some time before it was, they needs to raise all the finance to get it started.

And because if Jeremy had been around, um, I'm sure one could have done something from that film and the music from the d C at the period in that period that had some wicked music, really really great music, could have done something. So ultimately you go to work for PolyGram the purchaser for ten years, then you go in depending and then you're done. Do you feel that the whole time you were involved in the music business was a moment in time or you could replicate it today?

Do you miss it? I think I miss it because of other things that I've really gotten into. Um, because if it was going to stay active in the music business, you've got to stay active in the music business. I mean, you can't how fast it and you've got to stay with it and follow up with it and everything. Otherwise you let people down and I don't want to do that. So no, that was that was That was pretty much. You know, I mean, I'm doing what I'm doing now,

which I love doing. You know, they and the property we have in Jamaica. You know, it's it's it's great. It's really great. Means a lot of people, Yeah, learned a lot. It's great. I love it. And to what degreed do you still keep up on music and listen to music. I don't sort of chase it all the time, but if somebody, if someone is says sends something to me or something, I'm immediately going to listen to it. Um whether I'll feel it or not feel it, you

know what I mean. There wasn't an incredible record made in Jamaica last year, which is really one of the best records I've ever heard come out of Jamaica. I had nothing to do with it, but it was really really great. This course sets it up and if you had been involved, would it have been much more commercially

success us all, Well, yes, I think so. But but I would have had to have been involved in it from the beginning of it rather than by the end of it, because by the end of it, when it's ready to be released and come out, it has all the people around it and everybody's in place, and the managers here and and the publishers there and they do you know what I mean? Yeah, Okay, So if you look back on your career and it's astounding, one of the most legendary, if not the most legendary independent record

label at the time when music drove the culture. Is it swy generous you were just one guy doing it? Or can we take lessons from that? Can you give any lessons to the younger generation? Well, I think that's it.

You know, if you find something that you really love doing, I mean, that's the luckiest thing in the world, and and one works on it and you have your ups and downs and things like that, but um, you know, it's it's it's it's so special you know when you when when you're you see somebody performing and you know where they've started and how they've come from and how they've evolved. I Mean, the person I'm so proud of is Angelie Kisa I don't know if you know, No,

sure you do, right. Well, she's fantastic. You know, I signed on with her very early. I I didn't I didn't tell her what to do directly what to do, but you know, I was very supported to all the way through and just slowly, in short ashes, just developed herself. And I feel proud of that. And I love that, you know, and and and I love music. I just do. Okay, Chris, I want to thank you so much for taking the time I'm telling your story, giving us this insight from

Golden Eyed. Thanks so much. Thank you. Until next time. This is Bob left sets H