Charlie Brusco

you know, go back in their to their history. And interesting enough, with the first meeting that I had with Dave and his wife, I mean Dave predates, which is hard to do, predates me in the early days, and it was fascinating for me to just sit and talk to him about how because I'd heard all of this

over the years and everything like that. But but how when I was a kid sixteen years old listening to to Traffic and you know, alone together and all of that era, Dave was in England and from my time with with with Bad Company and Paul Rodgers and Simon Kirk and all those guys. I had always heard about this thing of how they all listened to blues records

and that's how like where they developed from. And at the time that he was starting to have hits and things going on, I was a young kid in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I was listening to stacks and you know, I wasn't listening to blues stuff, but I was listening to my first, my first musical kind of stuff, except for my listening to my sister's Elvis records, which I wasn't

really that that that into. But the Temptations and the four Tops and the you know, and and Sam Moore and Sam and Dave and I mean all of that stuff. That that's the stuff that I heard because there was a radio station in Pittsburgh called Whammo and that all they played was R and B stuff, and it was it was a little bit before AM radio turned to FM radio and we started getting all the FM radio

music stuff and everything like that. I was listening to stuff when I was, you know, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and I had a band, and you know, I grew up on that kind of stuff. Well, A funny thing was is the other night when when when Dave was in town in Atlanta. The keyboard player for Dave is Mark Stein from the Vanilla Fudge And really I went and as one of the encores, they do you Keep Me

Hanging On? And I went up to mark Stein afterwards and I said, I had a band when I was in high school and the toughest thing that we had to do was learn you Keep Me Hanging On because we had a ham and Bee three organ But but you know, nobody could play like you and nobody could sing like you. But we had to do it because it was one of the biggest hits, you know, of all time. It was. It's interesting, I mean, it's really interesting.

kind of out of reach. I mean heritage artists having having great music, which a lot of them still make great music, but getting that music out it doesn't have the path that it had when we were growing up, where it was on the radio. There isn't for sticks and for for you know, uh, for Dave Mason, for a lot of artists like that, there's they get tremendous amount of radio play, but they but the radio that plays them won't play their new music. They they'll they'll

play all their hits. But that you know, it's a problem that we've all had. But the opposite of that problem is is that if they're great live, the live business, as you know, and you've said in all of your stuff, I mean, the live business is probably as healthy as it's ever been. You know, uh that that you know that that any of us remember.

They had Derek Sutton, who was the first manager they had, They had Irving for a short time, pe'er Irving and Howard for a short time period, and then they had me. So that's probably the artist that I have that's had the least amount of managers, if you want to know the truth.

your manager. If you want some guidance, try and make it sound like Sticks. Don't try and be cool, because nobody gives a shit if you're cool. They they want that. They they want to hear more Sticks. And and you know, you know, make sure that it's great. You're you're a great live band. Make sure it's songs that you'll be

able to play live. I mean that that you know, And we're not going out on the road and when we're going out and we're playing the amphitheaters or the arenas or wherever we're playing, we're not going out and playing six new songs in a set, because that's not what the people and you you know this, and I know this, that's not what the people that are coming to see the shows are paying for, and when you don't give them what they're paying for, they'll stop coming.

thousand people. And I wasn't I wasn't a great Damn Yankees fan, but I was obviously a huge Bad Company fan. And I happened to be out catching the end of the Bad Company set and they all of a sudden they played Renegade and I was like, wow, man, and

the reaction was off the charts. So a couple of years later, Damn Yankees is in a perious position with with Warner Brothers that have made a record Warners doesn't really give a shit about the record that they're They're arguing back and forth, and Tommy and Jack Blades decided that they wanted to try and do some other stuff, and Tommy threw some people that we knew and everything like that got introduced to me and I started managing Tommy, and then in turn we started doing something that was

called Shaw Blades, which was Tommy, Tommy Shaw and Jack Blades. So when we were doing the beginning of the of the Tommy stuff and we weren't talking, there was never any mention of anything with me and Tommy in the in the opening stuff about Styx.

Records in the in the beginning. All right, So they were putting out a second Greatest Hits record, which they could do with or without the band's okay, all right, But they came to the band, and they came and they wanted to have Lady on the on the thing, but they didn't want to license this song from from Wooden Nickel. Hence the the the thing that most bands fans know this, and I'm sure you know this to Bob.

Bands do re records after their re record contracts or they're clear of re record problems with the record company. Everybody you know has their own versions that they do of the songs later. So they're gonna do Lady. So Tommy comes to me and he says, hey, I got a call from Jay and he wants me to he wants me to come to uh to Chicago, and we're gonna they're gonna re record Lady. And I said, okay, the Universal is going to put this thing out. I said, Okay,

that all makes sense. I said, but but you know, I didn't think you guys got along. And he goes, oh, he goes, you know it was really weird. He goes. He called me and he goes, you know, we hadn't talked in ten years or fifteen, twelve, whatever amount of years it was. We hadn't talked in all this time. And he said, but he goes, it was like, none of this shit that went on in the past was there. He goes, it was just like two old friends talking.

And I was like, well, there's there's going to be three more friends when you go up there, because there was there was five guys in the band, right, And he goes yeah. I go, well, hopefully that'll all work out. And I go, so okay, and he said yeah, and they said, you know, I can bring Genie, which is now Tommy's wife, which was Tommy's girlfriend at the time, because we're going to all go to dinner afterwards. And

I was like, well, okay, Son's great. And he went off to Chicago and the next morning he called me on the phone and he said, he said, listen. He goes, you have no idea. He goes, I know that you have this this thing because of different stuff that I've said about you know, who gets I don't care about sticks, and I'm you know, he goes, but he goes, when we started playing that, we started playing Lady, he said, it just all sounded so great. And he goes, and

everybody was in a great mood. He goes, we all got along, and the wives got along, and the girlfriend whatever, everybody got along. And he said. We went to dinner, and he said, and at dinner, somebody said, wouldn't it be great if we if we did a tour? And I said okay, and he said, well, perbade him. Would anybody give a shit if Sticks came back out and toured? And my wife was in the room, and I said, Stick's doing a tour and Cindy said, and I was like, I got I'm gonna have to do some check and

I really, you don't know what it would mean. And my wife said everybody in my high school would go to that show. And I was like, really, okay. So I called some promoter friends of mine, and at the time, Jack Boyle was alive, and I think I called I think I called Don Law. I mean, it's kind of similar to when I made all the calls originally about

Leonard Skinner. When putting Skinner together in eighty seven, I reached out the people that I trusted there were ill probably called Arnie and Jerry in Chicago, and everybody was like, yeah, that sounds really good. So I also thought, okay, there has to be a great package that goes with this. So we started talking about the one the tour, and one of the things that Tommy said that he went back to the guys and said, all right, I'm going to be in. But if I'm in, my manager, Charlie

Bresco manages us and he runs the show. And uh so he said, Tommy said, I talked to them about it. They agreed, they want to have a meeting in Chicago. Can you come to Chicago next week? So I flew to Chicago. And you know, I mean, honest to God's truth in my in my promoter days in when I was managing Skinnered in the early nineties, Jay Why had called me to go see his solo band, and I think I told him I was going to show up at the show. And I never showed up, but but

we we sat in a room. We we we we went to dinner at the at the at a at an Italian restaurant in downtown Chicago. We went across the street to the to the uh. To the Whitehall Hotel where I was staying. We had I had a sweet upstairs. We went upstairs. We all sat down and we started talking, and they said, what can we do? And I said, from what I've been able to ascertain, you know, we'll

We'll get we'll get an agent. Well, we'll uh and we'll you know, we we'll do We'll do amphitheaters, we'll do you know, I think we can do forty or fifty shows next year if everybody will commit to it. And everybody kind of like said, yeah, okay. And the first tour was done with absolutely no interference from from anybody at all. And the first tour, everywhere we went basically sold out. I mean, we did twenty three thousand people in Saint Louis and you know, twenty thousand people.

You know. We did two nights in Chicago at the at the endoor, at the Arena, I mean, and it was great, it was it was wonderful. And then, of course, you know, as as things go, the next tour, some ghosts came out and things started to go back to the to the you know, a little bit out of the way, and and at one point Tommy and j why. Came to me and said, we got a new album coming out, Dennis does, Dennis can't tour. We want to go out there without them. And I said, all right,

if we do this, you know, it could work. It might not work, but you know, if you guys, if you guys, I'm not going to go backwards. We're not going to go do this for six months and then and then turn around and go back because Dennis will just be you know, Dennis will have more power than he wants. And and uh, and we you know, the three of us decided we were going to do it, and off we went. And it's uh, twenty twenty five years.

You know, we've been touring. We've done probably twenty five hundred shows, and and we love we love what we do. We have a great we have a great time. Okay, how did you tell Dennis he was out? Oh? I called him on the phone and told him and and the reaction was not good. And he said to me, you know that no one will come to see them without me, and I go, we'll see, we'll find out. And then there was a loss suit and then the lawsuit got settled, and you know, and and and it's

from I'm pretty sure of this. I don't think me, Tommy or Jay, why have ever spoken to Dennis since I since I let him go. I don't think the three of us have ever had a word with Dennis and a good word or a bad word. Nothing, Okay.

I mean, let me tell you something. You know, Keith and Mick ain't kissing and hugging on on every night about everything, and and they've stayed together all those years. I mean, you know it's it. You gotta you gotta know, you gotta know, you know where you're, how you can how you can do this together, because uh, you know it otherwise you go. You know, it's like the Fleetwood song, you go your own way. I mean, that's you know, that's that's it, that's it, and you know sometimes people

try and it doesn't work. We found an incredible talent and we we actually knew it. We auditioned uh for Dennis's position. We auditioned a number of a number of people, and the least like Dennis, the least sounding like Dennis, the least Dennis because we we actually had people come in that people suggested to us. And we did the the auditions up at Tommy's house when he lived up in the top of the Hollywood Hills. And when when we did those, there were guys that were like they

were in cover bands. They were they were doing Dennis and cover bands and they were pretty convincing how they did their stuff. But when after Lawrence Gowan did his thing, we went we went into Tommy's house and the three of us looked at each other and they said, what do you think? And I said, if you want to if all the guys that we had here before, if you want somebody to be Dennis, we get one of

those guys. If you want to chart a new course and you want to you want to have a guy that that's that's alltra talented and has had his own career in Canada and all that stuff, and you know, and is not Dennis. That that's my vote, you know, I got, I got one vote out of three. You two Stoll, you know, call the shots and and you know, but that's that's my opinion. And it's been my opinion from day one. And let me tell you something the first tour that we did with Dennis in nineteen ninety six,

that those shows were those shows were great. I mean they were they were really great. It was a it really what brought what took it apart was the same thing that took it apart the first time. It was personality conflicts. And they they just didn't they didn't want to be on the same bus together, they didn't want to be in the same cars together. They didn't want to be and you can't you can't fix that. I mean, you can't fix personalities.

And then my sense of everything was was we got to get out and we can't play fairs and festivals that we're playing and we can't play you know, smaller theaters and everything like that. We got to get out on a show that'll that'll put a lot of people out there, so that so that we can get in front of a lot of people, so so the bunch of fans can come and even if we only convince half of them, instead of convincing you know, a thousand out of two thousand people, we're convincing five out of

ten thousand people. And there had there had always been a U challenge that had never really on a tour situation had never happened like Rio and Sticks were always kind of in competition. And I went after Rio to do a tour at Sticks, and I got House of Blues to put up the money for a whole tour and an amphitheater tour and everything like that. And I approached Tomkin Solo that manages Rio and and we both

felt that it was going to be great. And we've probably done four hundred, four hundred and fifty shows together or something like that. And and we the two the two bands. Everybody, everybody gets along. That's the other thing about Stix, I mean Sticks, Probably of all the bands that I've ever been involved with, they probably the bus is probably the most fun bus to be on because they're they're they're all they all get along. They get along great.

He works for the tour because because if it was our production manager, he would be jockeying for everything for us. If it was our production manager, he would be jockeying, jockeying for everything for them. That's it's it's neutral. We had to have a neutral person in the middle. So how do you decide who closes? Tom and I work that out, and then we go back to the band and they go, what the hell are they too me?

You know, and then we go like, just well, listen, we're going to do this again two years or three or four years from now, and you can close that city that time. Chicago we always close. Saint Louis they always close, Atlanta we always. I mean, there's some that that that are basically you know that that we we naturally do it. And then we just go like and actually, you know, in the in the first few years, the first couple of times that we did it and there

wasn't that was a little bit tougher. Now it's like, I don't we don't care, you know, play you know, who who closes is the most inconsequential thing. Man my opinion, and my band knows this, and some of my band members have come to the same conclusion. If it's a three act show, which our shows always are in the summer in the amphitheaters, the middle slot's the best slot on the show.

to the shows without their parents as they growled. We've got we've got fans that have been coming now for the last twenty years that came to the shows when they were twelve or fifteen with their parents and now they're thirty five and they're they're like, they're you know, they're bringing their kids.

that they can to not play the celebrity. Stix loves playing the celebrity We you know, we've done as many as three nights there because the fan reaction and the fan kind of like that. You know, you know a lot of our fans we see them at multiple shows all the time, so you know, it's it's a you know, it's a it's a it's a you know, all bands have that. But you know, we we like certain things that we do and we like it's pretty obvious from from what our touring history is. There's there's there's a

lot of artists that we like to tour with. We're out with Foreigner this summer. We love them. We brought John Waite back, who has done stuff with us before. Rio, we work with a lot. We worked with Joan Jet. Joan was great. Tesla has always been a favorite of ours, and it's really kind of like a chemistry of how it works with the crowd and then how it works backstage also how everybody kind of gets along, because if you can't get along with sticks, there's a problem.

they they hadn't done anything. I mean, I know, it sounds pale in comparison to three triple platinum records in a row and everything like that, But in today's market, that record sounds sound scanned like one hundred and forty thousand records or something like that that you know, and our last record that we did sound scanned like sixty or seventy thousand records. So it's it's it's and we

play some of the songs. We play a few of the songs live, and if we do an evening with Stick show where we do two sets, then we'll play a little bit more of the of the new stuff. And the fans love it because, quite frankly, the album sound, the material sounds like vintage sticks. They use a lot of the same kind of recording techniques and all that stuff that they used in the early days to keep

that authentic kind of sound. What about sponsorship, Uh, if it's out, you know, it's not something that we seek and and and they you know, we we have our own beer. We have we have a we have a beer called Omama that's brewed by by a company in Pittsburgh, and it's a little bit of a playoff of the I mean, one of the biggest sports tie ins that there is is Styx's song Renegade and the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean, you know, if you go to if you go to a Pittsburgh Steelers game, that's a that's at

their home field. Sometime during that game when they need a defensive stop, they're there. You're you're gonna you're gonna hear Renegade and the crowd is going to just be having tiles waven and all that stuff. And we've got a really special relationship with them. So we do have a beer that that that's done significantly well as a as a as a craft beer and everything like that.

But but we don't we don't really we don't look for sponsors and you know, we don't we we we if if the right one came in, would we would we look at it. Yeah, but it's it's not something that we're you know, we're we're we're we we know what we know what we we know how our mercher, we know how to do our merch. We know how to do our our live our live shows, and we know how to we know how to do it in the in the fashion that we like to do it.

That that's probably why we keep doing it. What about privates, Oh we yeah, we that we that was an early that first time we did that, it was shell shock. Now you know we we we do privates when when uh, when they make sense and usually it has to do with it it routes well or something like that, and some of them are some of them are surprising, and some of them are privates. Okay, how'd you put Leonard skinnerd back together? Uh? Nineteen eighty seven April, well, probably

January of nineteen eighty seven. I got a call from Amat Urdigan and Ahmat said, Charlie, uh, aren't you aren't you friends with Gary Rossington? And I said, yeah, I've been friends with Gary Rossington since, you know, since nineteen seventy four. And he said, he said, him and his wife Dale have this have this album, and atlantic's putting it out and he he needs some he needs somebody, and he goes I was talking to him about it the other day and he said, he said, you know, uh,

I brought your name up. And he said, I don't know if you Charlie and I are friends. I don't know, you know, I don't know, and he said so, so he gave me Gary's number, which Gary with at the time, was living in and h up in Jackson, how Wyoming. And I called Gary up and I said, hey, Gary, what's going on? And he said, uh, you know, you know, I got to get a manager. I got this record coming out and Dale and I are really excited about it.

Send me the record. I listened to the record. I was I was promoting at the time, I UH with Alex Cooley and Peter Conlin in Atlanta, and we were we were doing shows together, and I wasn't really doing any real management stuff. But just like I mean, the history with me and Gary goes back to you know, the before Sweet Home Alabama was out. So uh, I said, uh, all right, Uh. I listened to the record. Dale sounded great. It sounded like a cross between Rossington Collins and and

Uh and skinnern and Uh. And so Gary, Gary came, Gary and Dale came to Atlanta and we met and I said, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna do this. And I got them. I had Alex and Peter and I had had a show at the Fox in Atlanta with Kansas. And the Kansas show was a about two thirds made. It was already on sale, it was about two thirds

sold out. So I said the I said to I said to Alex and Peter, I said, you know, just the name Rossington on the because that's what the name of Gary's band, just the name of that on on ninety six Rock will sell out the rest of the Kansas State. Let's put his band on as the opening act. Okay, great, So so we put them on the show. So it's

you know, the show. So as soon as we announced Rossington, like in the next couple of days, the show at the Fox ended up completely selling out, sold out in advance.

So we went to uh, uh, we're at the Fox and more upstairs in one of the dressing rooms up and the upstairs, and somebody comes in and I'm in with Gary and Dale and they're nerves they're they're actually nervous because they're back to play in the Fox where the three nights were recorded for the for the Skinnered record and Rossington Collins had sold the building out and

everything like that. And here they are coming back and they're and they're they're playing special guests to Kansas and I and and somebody comes up and said, uh, there's there's there's two guys at the back door and they say that they they're good friends at Gary's and and uh and they they heard that you're back here. They said for you again because they want to say hi

to Gary. I got okay, so I got downstairs I go to the back door of the Fox and I open the door and it's Billy Powell and Leon Wilkerson from all Right standing there. Hey man, we want to see Gary. And I was like, Uh, okay, they're upstairs. They're nervous as hell. Let us go up. Let us go up and say him. So they go up and they all go into a room and they start talking

and everything like that. And and Gary had said to me early on, you know, I don't want to revisit all the skinner and stuff, and you know, I want the focus to be on on on the Rossington band and everything like that. So I go up to the dressing room and they're getting ready to go to the stage and everything like that. And Gary pulls me aside and he goes, we're gonna we're gonna go when we do the end, we're going to go back up and I'm going to bring Billy and Leon up for Sweet

Home Alabama. And I was like, you haven't rehearsed, right, He goes, we all know it. He goes, he goes, it'll go, it'll go over, It'll be great. And they did that, and the place basically went to a different level. It totally exploded. So we all we were all on this, you know, high and from the show and all that, and we went to a club, the bar, kind of place that we used to hang out at when the

Skinner days and all that stuff. And we went back there and it's one thirty in the morning and I'm going to go home and Billy Powell comes over to me and he goes, hey, Charlie, you know what the October twentieth is this year. I go, yeah, Billy, it's plane crash. No, no, no, no, tenth year. We need to do something on October twentieth. And I was like, if you talk to Gary about this, goes, Gary won't talk to us about this. You need to talk to him and Dale, and you need to get them to

do something. We just need to do one show. So I was like, okay. So I went back to Gary and Dale and I brought it up and Dale we when we walked out of the room, she goes, I wouldn't bring that up to him again. He doesn't want anything to do with it. So I go okay. So different things started to percolate and everything like that, and all of a sudden Gary called me and he said if we did if we did one show, could could

we could we make some money? And could we also put Rossington on the show and I'll play both sets? And I said yeah, and he goes, where does it make sense to do it? I go, there's only one place to do it. He goes where I go to the Omni in Atlanta. I go, we'll announce it. It'll do fifteen sixteen thousand people. It'll be you know all that, but we'll have to rehearse, you know, we'll we'll have to get all together and you have to figure out who's going to play it and everything at that. So

we we we we. The next day, I went to Alex and Peter and I was like, Hey, we want to do a Skinnered reunion thing one day. You know, Omni in Atlanta. What do you think? Alex says, couldn't we do it October twenty first? And I go, doesn't really make a lot of sense. Why He goes, the cars are playing, They're they're confirmed. And I was like, we can't like move that around or no, there couldsendent or tour. They're not going to give up that date. So I was like, okay, all right, then let's go

to Birmingham. We'll go to you know, we'll go to We'll go to the arena in Birmingham. I don't like it as much as I like Atlanta, but well, we'll go to Birmingham for one show. Went back and we started talking about what we were going to that we were going to put it together, and we had that. And back then in those days, there were the tip sheets, and there was a there was a tip sheet that came out of Philadelphia that was Bill Hard. And I used to talk to Bill Hard or one of his guys.

heard that the ohm it's excited. And he said something about you're going to try and do some kind of a skinner thing. And I said, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna do one show on on the twentieth of uh of, you know, And I said, told I'm calling, I'm calling around to some promoters and I'm trying. So I started calling around the promoters and all the promoters were like, hey, don't just do Birmingham do this, DIY do this. So I went back to Gary and I said, you know, hey, listen,

we probably can do ten or twelve or whatever. Why don't Why don't we make it make more sense? And he's, you know, he said, uh, well, you know you need to you need to find certain people. I go, what's that? He goes the first one. He goes, I'm not doing this unless Ed King is involved. And I go, do you have any idea where Ed King is? I I heard he's in New Jersey. All right, Ed King had Ed King wasn't even playing. I mean Ed King was in the software business or early tech, you know, tech

kind of stuff. So I rounded up Ed, I rounded up Billy Pile, Leon Artemis. We we got we started getting that all together, and then that was all in motion. And that was when Bill Hard called me, and I had promoters that were gonna, we're all interested in doing it. And I had a conversation before I talked to Bill Hard. I had a conversation with Bill Graham, and I called Bill Graham up on the phone. And Bill Bill was always like like, you know, he was always telling me,

you don't know what. He took me under his wing and helped me in all kinds of ways. R at that, but he was always you know, giving me the giving me a hard time. So I called him up, and I said, and he was a massive, massive Leonard Skinnerard guy in the day. Ronnie, Ronnie and him were great friends Gary everybody they were the Bill Bill was was one, you know, was one of their favorite promoters, if not their favorite promoter. So I called Bill was one of

the first guys I called. And Bill said to me, are you out of your goddamn mind, don't you know there was a plane crash. He said, you can't bring back he goes. You can't bring back Leonard Skinnard without without Ronnie van Zandt. And I said, Johnny's gonna sing he goes. Nobody will care. And I said, so Bill, if I I said, Larry Maggot's gonna do. All these people were doing cities, you don't want to do San Francisco. No, I won't do it. And I said, okay, well, then

I'll tell you what we won't do San Francisco. If we're not going to come in there and have Don Fox or somebody else come in and do San Francisco, the band respects you too much. And if you feel that way, okay. So Bill Graham was kind of written

out of the tour at that moment. Bill Hard calls me up on the phone and we're talking about this thing, and this is like, this is after we had the lineup that set and he's and I tell Bill Hard, yeah, well, actually we're gonna do We're gonna do a bunch of dates. We're gonna probably do fifteen twenty. I don't know. We're still putting it together. We still talking about the Rossington record. Bill Hard on Thursday or Friday of whatever that week was,

whenever he wrote his Hard report in the notes. Thing that he wrote, interesting thing going on in Atlanta. Sounds like Charlie Brusco has Gary Rossington all these together, and it sounds like around the October we'll see the first time we'll see some dates honoring Leonard Skinner all right the tip sheet comes out. The tip sheets out. The next day or two days after the tip sheet comes out, I get a call from Bill Graham and Bill says, this skinner thing you're you're really going to do it?

I go yeah, And he goes, is it routed yet? I go, barbar Skuydell and Frank Barcelona Premiere routing it. But we're not. We didn't put San Francisco in Bill, and he said, we're going to change that. And I go, where do you think we should play in San Francisco? And he says, he goes, I want to do Shoreline. I want to do Concord. I want to do Sacramento. I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Bill, you went from this is the stupidest idea that you've ever heard. To now you want to do five cities and you

want to open the tour in San Francisco. What is going on? And he said, well, he goes that Bill Hard report. He goes, somebody at the radio station here in San Francisco started talking about it on the radio yesterday morning, and our phone lines have been jammed, people calling to wanting to know when they're going to play San Francisco. He goes, we'll sell every one of these shows out. I said, Shoreline's twenty thousand seats. He said, you'll sell every show out. I'll stake my name on it.

And so we started in San Francisco. We did, we did, We did twenty one thousand people at Shoreline sold out,

sold that, Concord sold out Sacramento. I mean, you know, and Bill, you know, Bill was was a was a great part of that, putting the band together and getting everything and the initial start, and then we did eighty seven, and then we did eighty eight, and then the band kind of like all the ghosts came out and I got I got crazy with it, and they got crazy with it, and you know, they they called me up one day Gary, I think it was Gary, maybe it

was Now Probably Gary wasn't called. He had somebody called me and he was like, we're we're we're we're we're not gonna We're not going to go forward next year with you. And I was like, okay. And then the next thing I knew they were going to Bill Graham Management.

So they went to Bill grand Management for two years, did one tour and then right right when when when when Bill had the when Bill was was killed in the helicopter accident, they came, they they came back to me and and I had him for the next I had him until ninety nine. And put them on the put together them and ZZ together, and then we got sideways again. And Gary called me up and was like, you know, we're gonna We're gonna move on. I I was like, Gary, we're great friends. Do me one favor.

I got everything in I put this tour together. I want paid on this tour. He said, You'll get paid on this tour and we'll remain friends. And Gary, Dale, Cindy, myself, the you know, the rest of the Skinner guys. I mean I was. I was at Gary's funeral, and get that Dale and Gary lived. They moved ten minutes from my house, and we saw each other all the time, and you know, there was there wasn't really hard feelings. And quite frankly, ros Shilling and Ken Levitan and them

have done a great job for for Skinner. They the and and I know some people don't think this, but but I know Gary sat with me and and when he had all the health issues before he passed, he said to me he said, the one thing that I don't want to happen. And I know he said this to Dale too. I don't want this band and this music and everything that we've been doing to stop because I'm not here, and he said, he said, he told

that to a number of people. And that's why I feel like the skinnered music, it doesn't doesn't matter who's playing. Johnny's there, Ricky's there. I mean, they're they're doing they're doing the the they're doing the legacy well. And they they you know, the fans that the fans turn out, nobody's making people go to the shows and advertising it that it's some you know that that it's you know, everybody knows what they're getting and and you know it's up to them and the fans to keep on keeping

the music alive. And that's what Ronnie would have won it, That's what you know. That's what Steve Gaines would have wanted. That's what you know. That's what they all would have won it. And then you know, I knew every one of them extremely well, for for as long as every one of them lived, because I'm still here and and Artemis is still here out of out of everybody, and Artemis really wasn't in the band when I first met

the band. Bob Burns was a drummer when I first met the band, and the music that music will live on way past me. How did Johnny end up being the lead singer? I wanted Donnie Gary wanted Johnny, simple as that, and and Garrett Gary Gary was right, I mean, Johnny was the exact right choice for what we were doing, and and Donnie Vans and it's still one of my good friends and one of my favorite guys. But but Donnie was Donnie wasn't the right He wasn't the right

thing for for for the band. Johnny was. Johnny wasn't established, and we wouldn't be taking Johnny out of thirty eight Special to be and Leonard skinnerd and it probably would have worked for one tour, but we never would have kept the everything going the way it's been going. Okay, you put.

taking up your your entire everything. And you know, when things would get sideways, it would get worse, and when things were good, it would get better.

his Henry Paul band stuff and everything like that. During that time, I was still managing Skinner art stuff. I was still managing the Outlaws, and and Henry and I couldn't really be friends. But I mean, Henry's writing a book. I'm I'm kind of and on win also, but Henry's writing a book. And he said, he said to me, you'll be happy with what I say about you. And I said, just tell the truth, and he I'll be happy. Okay.

you know, uh uh, I'm not. I'm not, in my opinion, I'm not on tenuous ground with anybody that that that I would care about losing. And I'll just leave it at that.

pissed off at you. Then I'm sure that you know that some of we'll call and go like, you know, I've been waiting to do this. I mean, it's you know, but most of them, most of them don't. Most of them have somebody and usually there's somebody else that's been squacking in their ears and telling them that they can they can do this for them and that for them,

and you know, I don't play that game. And and really you know, uh, I mean, you know, cork corn corn doesn't red light gets enough calls from people saying where'd you be interested in? Then we get calls where where where we're getting you know, listen, we've got a we've got a big roster where you know, we're a great management company. But you know it still is a you know, personal manager kind of things, and you know, personalities again, can you know, can can outweigh business? What's

what's going on business wise? I mean I've you know, I've had I've not when Bill ham got married or got when Bill hamm got fired by zz Top after managing those guys for thirty years, and I had a meeting with what's easy about managing them? When Bill ham got got got fired. That was the most shocking thing to me in the world because he went in the studio with him he you know, and and Bill basically

he was he was a z easy guy. That's what that's what his that's that that's what his whole focus was. But you know, sometimes you're too close to it, and you know, you're too close to the flame and you get burned.

a deal with Irving. But in my estimation, if I made a deal with Irving, I was going to need to move to Los Angeles to be in the middle of what was going on with him, so that when he was talking with somebody about you know, management, uh, and he was going to have somebody handle somebody, I would be right there because I you know, that's how that's how goes. So I had, I had a meeting. I didn't. I didn't go into the whole Irving roll up. And I was doing fine. I had Alliance Artist. I

was out of the promoting business. I had done my my national tours promoting wise, and I'd done my my local and I was out of that whole thing. And I was a manager and I had had uh uh Skinner I had had left. I had I had sticks and we were rolling, and I had other artists I bat I had bad company for a little while. I had different artists that I was doing doing stuff with.

And I got a call from from somebody and they said that, uh, that zz top was was looking for for management, and that I was on the list of people that they wanted to meet with. So as it happened, zz Top's attorney was John bon Jovi's attorney. John bon Jovi is one of my closest friends and my my relationship with him was as a promoter, and he's he's you know, we we confide in each other on all kinds of stuff and and actually my my wife is

extremely friendly with John. Also, when John wants real advice, he'll call Cindy instead of calling me. So so I called John and I said, listen, I'm gonna meet It's easy, and your guys is one of the attorneys on this thing. Can you just put a good word in for me? And John said, there, there's there's never been anything that I thought made more sense than you and z Z after SKINNERD and all that stuff. OK, I appreciate that. So John h John reached out, Uh, this meeting was

set up. I flew into l A, went into a meeting with Billy Gibbons and and and another person was in the in the meeting, not not anybody in the band. And we had we had them. We had the meeting. And the next like after the meeting, a couple of hours later, I got a call from the attorney and he was like, Bill, Billy was blown away. You're you're gonna, You're, You're gonna, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get You're

you're gonna get this. And then whatever happened over the next forty eight hours, Billy had a meeting with Carl Stubner and the next thing, you know, Carl Stubner became the manager of Eazy and has been the manager of z Z ever since. So I guess they made, you know,

a good decision, because it's worked. But I got I got like, uh and and and one of the things that came back to me was, well, you know, you're just you know, Bill Hamm was just a manager that was in Houston and just had that office, and you know, you know, you were you just have the office in Atlanta and and Stubner has a you know, bigger kind of uh footprint out there and everything like that, and I was, I was really kind of bothered by it. And Rod Essek, that's a really good friend of mine,

that's one of the guys at c AA. He and I were at a show and we were we were talking, and I was like, you know, man, you know, I know this independent thing is is great, and you know, and I know it's you know, but nobody's there's not that many independents left anymore. And when I have a meeting now, I'm like the little guy, and and everybody else has all these bells and whistles and all this

other kind of shit because they're associated with somebody. And Rod said to me, well, you had that chance to do that thing with Irving, right, And I said, well, you know, I really thought that to make it work with Irving, I needed to move to l A. And I'm not I don't want to live in l A. I love Atlanta. I'm not moving. You know, I'll get out of the business before i'll move. And he said, well, what about corn Capshaw? And I said, I said, do you know two people that are more different than each

other than me and Corn and Rod. Rod was like, well, I think McGraw. Corn was handling McGraw at the time, and him and Rod were talking all the time. And he said, he goes, you don't you don't get it. He goes, he goes, Corn Corn is a great guy, and he goes, but you know, people, people, people are afraid of him, or people don't you know people or whatever it is, they don't you know that Corn. Corn is very private about everything. And he goes, But I

think you and Corn would get along. So I was like, Rod, let me tell you something, just to make it clear to you. If Corn Capshaw called me on the phone, I of course would talk to him. I would pick up the phone. I go, but I'm not you know, I'm not looking. I'm an independent guy. All right. This is on a Friday in Nashville. All right, Monday, I'm back in the office. I'm sitting in the office and somebody says in the office, they go, there's a Corn Capshaw on the phone for you. And I was like, no,

that's Rod. I was, that's Rod screwing with me. So I picked up the phone and I go, yeah, and Corn said, Charlie, it's Corn Capshaw. Do you have a moment? And I was like, it is, hey, Corn, how you doing? And we started talking and he said I was talking with Rod Essek and Rod Rod thinks that that that you and I should get together and sit down and have a meeting. And he said, he said, would you

would you be interested? He goes, He goes, I really would like to have an office in Atlanta, and I'd like to have a presence, and he goes and he goes,

I think we should sit down and talk. And because way back in the way back years, I managed a Freddie Jones band and the Freddie Jones band was on an entire tour with with with the Dave Matthews band, and we were the band was was fairly infamous besides their music, with their party and and everybody knew each other and that that was really kind of and so

I said that, I said, yeah, okay. So for the next like four or six weeks, Corn and I kept on trying to figure out someplace that we could get together to have a meeting where it wasn't changing his top schedule in my schedule, and so finally we had him. We had a meeting at the Red Light office, the last red light office, not the new not the building that we that that Corns has in Nashville, but the one that Paradigm and a couple of other agencies were

in that office or in that in that building. We had a meeting. There was nobody else, everybody we we had the meeting after the office was closed so that nobody would bother us or anything like that. And we sat in a room for forty five minutes or something like that, and he said, you do I think we should make a deal. And I was like, okay, I go, you know, just you know, one of the things that i want to make sure of is is that I'm staying in Atlanta. I don't I'm not gonna And he said,

I'm not going to work. I'm not going to deal with any of that stuff with you. He said, you're I know that you're friends with Bruce Eskowitz, that that that's now that's now running our l A stuff and aver that that. I go, yeah, I go, yeah, Bruce and I know each other from when Bruce started with Pace with with with Louie. And he said, he said, get on the phone with with Bruce Eskowitz. Make yourself the best deal that you want, and we'll and and

we'll get in business together. And that was in like maybe August of twenty let me see, I got a note, let me see twenty twenty eleven and January one, twenty twelve. The building that I had that was Alliance Artist, which I owned the building. We went outside and we took the Alliance Artist thing down and we put up a thing that said red Light and I've been I signed. I signed it. Corn and I made a deal for three years and I planned to retire at red Light if I retire.

The red light brings attention and and and uh and you know I I I don't. I don't particularly take meetings with and and go with every band that that's out there, that that you know, somebody from Red Lighter. Corn will say to me, Hey, so and so is available, and I'll go like, that's not, that's not that's not for me, that's not, that's not. I I'm listen, I'm I'm seventy two years old now. I I have the power to say no. I have the power to be choosy. I don't give a I don't care really a whole

lot about the money, you know it. You know, it's not about It's like Bill Graham, it's not about the money. It's about the money. But I mean, that's not what drives me. And that's just it's just not what drives me. And you know, I I do this stuff because I'm because I'm passionate about it. And and one of the more passionate other managers that I know is Corn. I mean Corn is you know, I actually don't. I don't know how somebody's brain operates the way Corn's brain operates

with everything that he does. I mean, he's he and he knows what's going on on, everything that's that's going on. That's that's way too much for me. That's like when when we were at that that that dinner the other night and you and I and Corn were standing there talking.

I mean, the most fascinating thing to me about our little exchange during everything at that is you guys started talking about books that you're reading, and like, you know, if I read a book, I'm reading a biography about somebody that's been in the business or an artist or

something like that. And you guys were talking about stuff that was completely and and and I was like and and I was thinking to myself, you the two of you have time to read books about ship that doesn't have anything to do with what's going on with us all the time. And and you weren't. You were you guys were talking, so you didn't get it like I did. But I was watching how passionate you guys got about

what books you were reading. And I was thinking, I was thinking, to myself, that's that's you know, you get a surprise every now and then. But that's really surprising to me that that's that's something because I would think that most of what you're interested in or he's interested in,

revolves around that. You know, this world and and and and I don't have time for anything out of this world unless it's you know, going back and you know the Keith Richards book or the Bill Graham book or the Peter Grant book or you know any of you know, that stuff in the new Dave Mason book. I mean just was eye opening to me because it's a it's a snapshot in time of what was going on for you know, when this business was, you know, in its infancy.

I mean, you know when I started going to shows, I mean bands, bands barely had what was called production. You used whatever the promoter provided for you. I mean, you know, there wasn't you know, you know, Frank Barcelona was controlling everything that was going on, you know, at the beginning of and A. David Krab, David Krebs, you know, Libra Crebs. I mean, there was there were those power people.

I just got lucky when I was in college that that I went to all these shows with the Balkans were promoting in Cleveland, and I saw kind of from from Mike Belkan kind of being nice to me. I kind of saw this world where and it's kind of been my path where a manager could be a promoter and a promoter could be a manager, because that's what they did. Mike managed the you know, the James Gang and and and Wild Cherry and and and bands and they but they still had the biggest promoter company in

in the world for a while. In the business it got very defined. You you weren't on both sides of the fence. But I I jump, I jumped back and forth. Let's go back to the beginning. So you're from Pittsburgh. I'm from Pittsburgh, Yes, like the actual city or a suburb, a suburb, a sub suburb of Pittsburgh. And what did your parents do for a living? My father, my father owned a a small hang out restaurant that the client tele was mainly mobsters or music people like Frank Sinatra

and people like that. And the bar club only held probably sixty people, but it was always open after hours because all the cops in the neighborhood were on the take and when everybody else had to close at two o'clock in the morning, my dad, my dad was able to you know, have the door and people would knock on the door and they'd let him in at two thirty in the morning and the place would close at five in the morning, and h and and he he he did that while I was a kid, and and

my mother was my mother was just a housewife until my dad decided that he wanted to get out of the business. So therefore there was gonna have to be more money come in. And my mother became a very very big time real estate agent both in uh In in Pittsburgh, and then when they retired, she's she kept working and doing real estate in uh In, Florida because she enjoyed doing it. And it's you know, it was uh so. So I I grew up kind of with a lot of street smarts. And and when I when

I when I had this thing. I had a band when I was in in high school and the band came to me. We had we were kind of like three dog Night. We had three singers, and they had a meeting that I wasn't in, and they came to me and they said, listen, there's bad news here. You can't sing. But the good news is is you get all of our bookings for us. So we want you

to like book us and manage us. So so I I did that with with with the band until I it became time to graduate from high school and I was working for a summer for my dad and he had this big, huge broiler for cooking steaks, and in front of the broiler was where you cleaned the dishes, and I would clean the dishes in front of this like broiler that was like give giving me a son

tan on my back. And one night I came home and I was bitching about working in the restaurant and everything like that, and my mother said to me, you need to go to college. And I said, mother, who are you kidding? I have like a one point nine grade point average. I'm not getting in any college. He said, I'm going to get you into college, and you're going to go to college because if you don't go to college, you're going to be working in that restaurant for your

father for for long, you know. And she goes, I don't want to put up with it. So there was this remedial kind of work your way into college situation at this small college in Ashland, Ohio that my mother somehow the I guess somebody at the at our high school told her about it, and she searched somebody out there and they got us a meeting and we went on and there was the first time that they were trying this, and they were letting like misfits that didn't

have the grades to get into the school. They were letting us come for summer school. And if we were able to operate in summer school, then that we could

we could come back in the in the fall. So we all went to there's probably forty or fifty of us or something like that, and there was a crowd of maybe fifteen or twenty of us that all became buddies from the school, and we all faked our way through four years of college, you know, just you know, when it came time to take tests, I you know, I'd get white crosses and read everything for three days in a row and take the test and pass the test. But I wouldn't show up for classes. I wouldn't do that.

I got on the student Senate and I started booking shows entertainment wise, and they had been having you know, like The Fifth Dimension and shit like that, and then all of a sudden, I'm bringing and I started doing it with Belkan College concerts. I started bringing the James Gang and like lou Reid and Poco and all these bands that I was into. I started getting them because I had the school's money. So you know, it was the student fund to put on, you know, concerts, So

it didn't matter if we made money or not. We just had the We just had the you know, we just had the you know, bring talent in. So you know, I did that and ran back and forth to Cleveland, saw every act that, you know, all the packages, all the stuff that was going on from nineteen sixty nine until nineteen seventy three and I graduated and I left college,

went home. They had a graduation party for me and a friend of my father's that had some business that that had a lot of cash, and a friend of mine that I went to college as father put up I think they each each one put up like one hundred or one hundred and fifty thousand dollars each. And we moved to Florida to start promoting concerts in Florida, which we had no idea how we were going to

get any concerts or anything like that. And because when I was in college there was the college booking division of Belkan. I went to the University of South Florida. There was a guy named Rick Alter that was the head of the student stuff. He wasn't a student, but he was the one that made decisions about music and

every like that. And we were talking to him about we wanted to buy the talent for them, and we were finishing up the meeting and he said, if you're not doing anything tomorrow night, you should come up to the We have a grassy hill here and we have groups play outside. And he goes, there's a band that's

local here. They've been in Colorado for a little while, but they're coming back and this is the first time they're back in Tampa in like a few months or something like that, and they're called the Outlaws, and you should come see this band. So I went sat on the hill watched watched this band just blaze with the guitars and everything like that. When they were done, I knew how to just walk and get backstage. I walked around, walked up, saw Henry Paul. Walked up to Henry Paul

and said, hey, you guys are pretty good. Do you have a manager? And he was like no, And I said I'd like to manage you. And he goes, really, what do you doing. We had cards made up for this production company we had and gave him a caartner. We had that, and I said, let's why don't you guys come by. We're Ken Ken, this guy Ken Kraus was my partner. Why don't you come by and and

uh tomorrow and we'll sit down and we'll talk. Band came by and we just started talking and started managing them, and next thing you know, I was in a con Aline van going all around the country and and we you know, we we we played a bunch of dates with Skinnard, who was we became fast friends with and uh, Peter Rudge was was was just getting this the skinnered

thing he was. He was becoming Skynyrd's manager. Alan Walden that was the former manager of Skinnerd was my partner at that point on on on management Outlaws management, and we uh uh the band opened up a couple of shows. Skinnered guys started talking about how good the Outlaws guys were.

Somebody said something to an A and R guy that was at a new label that that was being started up by a guy named Clive Davis and was called Arista Records, And I got a call from this A and R guy, and he was like, I'd like to come see the band. I want to come on Clive Davis's behalf to see the band in Orlando. I see you're playing with Leonard Skinner. He came and saw. We went to a payphone and called Clive and fight and told Clive how great the band was. Clive, we heard

all the stuff. Clive came to flew into Atlanta, changed planes, which he didn't really like that whole idea, but we I met him at the airport. We flew together to uh Columbus, Georgia, where where the Outlaws were opening for Leonard Skinner and Clive saw Skinner. I saw the Outlaws. We were walking to go to the hotel to sit

down to talk about it. He was blown away. And as we were walking, Ronnie van Zandt and Leonard Skinner were headed to the stage and we got stopped and Ronnie came over to Clive Davis and said, you're hey, I'm Ronnie van Zant. You're Clive Davis, right, And he goes yeah, and he goes he goes, uh, I'll tell you what I hear you you're here to sign the Outlaws. If you don't sign that band. You're you're the dumbest

person that I know. And and Clive said, we were on our way to discuss that before you stopped us. And we went and we worked out a record deal for the Outlaws, and you know, we put we we went to l A recorded the first record, and all of a sudden we were on the radio all over the place in FM radio. We had a couple of songs on the radio. There Goes another love song, green

Grass was on all the FM stations. And then I got a call from a guy named Dan Winer, and Dan said, or at Michael Kleffner that was at Arista, had me called Dan Winer. And Dan Winer said, I've got this tour this summer that that uh that you guys could be Outlaws could be the opening act. It's it's all arenas and it's the Doobie Brothers. And we did.

We did all the arenas with the Doobie Brothers, and when we got off on the other side, we were selling thousands that you know, whatever amount of tickets everywhere and you know, let's see, that's that's seventy five, seventy that's seventy five and seventy nine, we headlined Madison Square Garden. Okay, wait, well, let's go back a few chapters. Do you have any siblings? Sister? She my sister Phyllis. My introduction to her was when

I was christened. I was upstairs in a basinet and everybody was bringing me presents downstairs, and she was like six years old, and she came up and slapped me in the face because she was pissed off because because I was getting all the presents and she wasn't getting the attention that she had had for six years. And she worked for me for I don't know, she worked for me for probably twenty twenty five years or something

like that. She went through good times, bad times, all that kind of stuff, and then maybe maybe four or four years ago or something like that, she retired. She's she's she's six years old to the max. She's she's seventy eight. She'll beat She'll be seventy nine this year.

that night. Okay, since you mentioned how'd you meet your wife? How did I meet my wife? Where? Oh? Oh, yeah, that's right. How did I miss that? Okay? A friend of mine, George Capellini, was the the head of some some division of national promotion for Geffen Records, and he was having a listening party at at at the Rich Carlton for Robbie Robertson, and I was in between wives at the time. I was I was I was newly newly divorced again. Wait wait, wait, how many times you've

been married? I've been I've been married four times to three women. Okay, which one of the one? There's one, there's two, and then there's three and four and three and four Cindya is both okay, continue the story, all right. So so, so I I was. I was dating Uh, a newscaster that was on CNN and was a kind of like a local celebrity. But things weren't that great between us, and she was she was always like if we were going, if we were meeting somewhere, she was

always late or anything whatever. And she's going to meet me and a friend of mine. They're going to meet us at this listening party. So so we're She's late as always, and we're waiting. We're standing there and I look across the room and I see this beautiful redhead standing over by where the wine stuff isn't She's dressed all in black, and she's not dressed like the rock people that are there from radio stations and all that.

For so, I thought she worked for the rich carl So I went over and I said, hey, can I thought she was poor and wine for people or whatever. And I said, you know, can I have a glass wine? She said, yeah, we have anything you want, but you know, you know, I don't work here. And I was like, oh oh. And so I started talking to her, and I'm keeping an eye on the door to see if the newscast are showing up and there's nowhere to be sid So I said to her, I said, listen, I'll

tell you the truth. I have I have, I have somebody coming here to meet me. But i'd i'd like to I'd like to call you. Can Can I get your telephone number? And she said yeah, okay, So she gave me her phone number. So I went, I went, dropped the the newscaster off, and it's like now, like one o'clock in the morning or something like that, and and I'm headed to my house and you had those phones, big huge phones that were so I was like, oh,

I got her phone number, I'll call her. So I called and I said, hey, you know, I just met and the person on the other end of the phone said, do you know that it's one o'clock in the morning. And I don't know? And it was it was her mother because she was she was she was in between relationships also, and she was living at home for a little while. So the next morning, at seven o'clock in the morning, she call me and was like, do you know that you woke my mother. I was like, oh,

my god. And and so I said, I said, let me let me, let me make this, let me make this right for Let's let's go out and have dinner. And she said, she said, well, we could do that, but I can't do it on this kind of short notice because I have I have a son and he's he's young. And I said, well, I'll tell you what. I have a friend that's that's staying at my house and he has a young son. Also, how about if the kids stay with him and we'll just go to dinner.

That's it. We'll just go to dinner. And that started. That started, U you know, a thirty some year relationship. We've been married twice. Wait, tell me about the divorce. In the remarriage, we.

the agreement. And she said I had a female attorney and she said, no, you're not. She said, because you have an agreement there. And she said you both should sign the agreement because then you'll be divorced and you'll start new. And she said, and you can always get remarried. She goes, but you've spent all this money for these divorce papers. If this doesn't work out in six months,

you can't use that same divorce agreement. You'll have gotten back together and everything will have to be changed again. And I was like, I went back to Cindy, and Cindy was like, whatever, whatever, we'll we'll, you know, let

let's let's let's let's get back together. And then we had the because it was pretty ugly all the stuff that was going on between us, we had to we had to go break it to everybody that we were that we were getting back together, which which took a little while, but you know it it was a it was a four month period of time that that we would we just you know, it did help. I mean it we did cut. We did cut that and put that behind and we went forward, and I'll tell you

a really interesting thing. The first we got married. The first time, we got married at the Rich Carlton in the same room that we met in Okay. And then we had a small amount of people at the actual wedding itself, maybe twenty or twenty five family members, and Gary Rossington was in the in the wedding and or in the ceremony and all that stuff. And and then we had the reception at the Fox Theater for three hundred people. That was the first wedding. The second wedding

was after Stix. We did these big nine to eleven uh nine to eleven benefits in in uh Uh, Atlanta and Dallas with Sticks and Bad Company in Kansas and Leonard Skinner and all that, and we raised a bunch of money for the Port Authority Police Department. We did. We did two nights back to back, and we were going on vacation. Right after that, we went to Nevas and we were we were because of everything that was

going on and everything like that. When we got to Nevas uh Uh, she said to me, you said, whenever we felt like we could get we we we we. All I had to say was I was ready to get remarried and you'd be good with it. And I said yeah, and she said, let's get married. And I said when she said Saturday? And I said, I said really and she said yeah. And I said, well, you know, let's find out what we got to do. Well, you gotta you gotta have of you know, the blessing or

the You got to go to the magistrate. That's the that's basically the mayor of Nevs or the governor of Neivas or whatever it is. You got to meet with them and they get So we went in and we gave them our passports. Well, she hadn't changed her passport from Cindy Bruscoe because during that time period there was no reason to change your passport. We were only split up for you know, for four months or whatever it was.

So the woman looks at the passports and she looks at Charlie Bruscowe and she goes, she looks at Cindy Bruscoe and she looks back at us, and she goes, what's your two relationship? Because if you're related, we can't marry you done. And I was like what and she was like, you both have the same last name. And I goes, oh, no, no, no, we've we've been the divorced, and she said, okay, I need to see your divorce papers. So we had to hit the attorneys and and this

is all happening in one week. We had to get all are we had to get whatever the amount of pages that this divorce agreep was. We had to get that faxed down to the Rich Car No, the Four Seasons Hotel in Navas. We had to get it faxed there. Then we had to go back downtown show her the paperwork. And the second wedding was held on the between the eighteenth hole of the golf course at Navas and the and the ocean and the and the and the beach and the two of us and three people that we

didn't know that. We had to have the person that did the ceremony, and then we had to have someone that was a witness, and then there was somebody else there. So we went from having a wedding with you know, an afterthing of three hundred people to just the two of us and that and that's the one that worked. How many kids do you have and what are they too? We both have a child. Mine is my daughter. Her name is Rhiannon. She's she has a we have a

granddaughter with her, Lucia, who's just turned eleven. And grandchildren are the best thing that happens to you. Children are much more of a problem than grandchildren because because children stay with you, grand your grandchildren go home. And then Cindy's son, which is not my son, but he calls me dad, and he's been with me for thirty thirty some years or whatever and works for me and has worked in my office for thirteen fourteen years. He has

a nine year old son, Landon. That just is there those two kids or you know, that's that's that's the the except for that, they're the most enjoyable part of everything that we do. You know, I have Cindy was, Cindy was, I think you're in Colorado. But Cindy was in Colorado for her birthday with her girlfriend last week. She does that every year. Last last year I went because I had stick, explained at the Valars Center on her birthday. But uh, she was in Colorado and she

was coming back on Saturday. But Friday night, Justin and his and his and his uh his girlfriend that they wanted to go out somewhere, so they were like, hey, would you would you watch Landing? And can he stay overnight at the house. So everybody was like, oh my god, we're leaving Landing with with Pap. Pap. This is never gonna work. You know, the house is you know, the house is going to burn down or whatever. And and Landing came over and you know, we you know, he

and I, he and I get along. Just unbelievable. I mean, it was funny. He was he's gotten really into like the the He wasn't a football fan, but he's now become a football fan and he's a he's a Mahones fan and all that. And he we were we were getting ready to go to bed, and uh and we were in bed and he had his iPad out and I had my phone out and I was looking at some stuff and he was googling stuff. And I said, he Landing, what's Patrick Mahones? What's how big is his contract?

So he googles and he's telling me with Patrick Mahones And I said, so he must be the highest paid quarterback in the NFL. And he said, without googling anything, he said, no, no, no, that's Joe Burrow. And I go, how do you know that. He goes, well, I know a lot of stuff, and I go, yeah, well, let's see how much you know. And so I googled myself and the stuff that pulls up on me pulled up on me and he and I said, I said, land and look there there there there, I can google myself

and look. And he looked at it and he was like, you're in thee You're in the Hall of Fame. And I go, yeah, I'm in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. You didn't know that, And he goes, no, he goes, but there's pictures of you at the you know, being inducted into the in and look at Mimi's that he calls Cindy Memi. Mimi's there too, is me me in the Hall of Fame? And I go, yeah, that she's in the Hall of Fame too, I go, I go,

I go. And he was just he was fascinated by that, because everything that he does, he does you know, he's like I would this is this is how it looks to me. When I was growing up and I started getting albums, I used to like, look at all the liner notes and I used to take everything out and read everything and who was the who is the producer, who was the manager, who was the band? Who was I got everything from all of that kind of stuff. He does all of that stuff, you know online. I

mean he googles everything. And my my granddaughter is the same way. It's you know, it's it's it we're not, you know, we're not what. How we grew up is so different from how they're growing up now. But it's wonderful to watch them. I mean, it's they're they're you know, the the and and I I don't want to downplay the kids. We got great kids. They've both had their there they're different issues here and there and all that, but they're great. My daughter was a was went to

law school. She was an attorney at Greenberg Trialing. Then she became a judge in Cobb County. And then she got diagnosed with MS, so she had to go on disability and and but she's a stay at home mom and she's she's extremely happy to be a stay at home mom. And then Justin has Justin does I mean, he not only works for me, he's got his own, he's got other stuff that he does on his own. He's got his own like he's got a DJ company that him and a bunch of guys dj different kind

of stuff. And they own all their you know, their own equipment and all that stuff. I mean, it's you know it, you know, it's it's great. It's it's great. Having We've always been a fairly tight family. I mean, all the way around, it's been it's been like that.

all that stuff, and was basically tapped out. And and the only the only chance that I had, you know, doing anything, was.

do with cash. And and the other my my partner's father was you know, it was it was a millionaire back then when it was a big deal to be a millionaire.

kind of things a couple of different times. And then and Alex Cooley and I were kind of always like we were making offers on shows, and you know, he'd offer twenty five thousand out offer thirty five thousand hit offer forty five thousand out off for fifty the band was still only worth twenty five if they were worth that. So were we were running it up on each other. And one day we ran into each other and there

was this this thing. Alex and I knew each other from the Outlaws days and he promoted shows for me and all that, and and we ran into each other and we kind of just I was like, and it was over like a Motley Crew date and he had made an offer on Motley that was ridiculous for like a Monday night. And I was like, you know you're paying Motley. You know they're getting the bands are making all the money, you know. And Alex said, well, why don't you you know, why don't you come with us?

Why don't you come joined Concerts Southern and and we'll join forces together. So I did that in UH in eighty seven eighty six, and that's when this the during that time period, that's when the skinnered thing came up, and that's when I started getting the management thing.

you to come with us. And and so I I flew out to to to Jackson Hole to meet with Gary and to let Gary know that I was that that it looked like I was going to do this, and that that that you know, Uh that that that's how how I was going to leave. Uh Cooley and Conlin and Wallace Barr was a guy that worked in the office with me, and he did all the closed circuit boxing stuff with Bob Aram, so he had kind of like a little bit of a business also. So

we made it. We just made a deal with m c A and and Pace to back us and a company that we called Brusco Bar Presents, and we we left Cooley Conlin not on great terms, and we had this Amphitheater and and I had relationships with Doc McGhee and bon Jovi and Motley and all you know and different different other agents and all that stuff. And we just started doing shows and from until ninety one, we

were we were killing it. And then the all the business started shifting for how much you could lose on a show, Like you know, you used to be if you lost twenty grand on a show, you know, you were like completely miserable. People were losing, you know, one hundred thousand dollars on a show. Guarantees were out of

control and all that stuff. And I was getting skinnered, was back in ninety one, and I was getting offers for skinnered and everything like that, and I was like, why do I want to be, you know, making these stupid offers and dealing with all this stuff, and you know, going back and forth and trading money on winners and losers and all that. And I just was like, I'm going I'm staying in the I'm getting out of the promoting business. I did a deal with with with with

Pace and MCA Concerts for a couple of years. I consulted on Lakewood after it had already been built, and we that was up and run and everything like that. And I stayed out of the promotion business until we were doing the Skinner and Sticks tours that were set for ninety six and Jack Boyle was going to promote both of those tours and he was going to put

them through the amphitheaters and all this other stuff. And there was a guy in his office that I was dealing with on the tours that we were getting we were setting up, and his name was Bruce Cap And Jack Boyle called me on the phone and he said, I'm just going to tell you this. I'm getting ready to go down the hall and he goes, I can't put up with Bruce. Bruce and I don't get along.

I'm letting Bruce go. And he's going to call you and he said, if you want to us to do the skinnerd and the the uh the Sticks tours, then we'll we'll do them. But if you don't, you know, and you want to do something with Bruce, you guys can you guys can take that over. We'll we'll we'll sign it all over to you. So we we we had Bruce called me. We had a mutual friend that Dennis D. Young had that did theater stuff that had bugged Dennis about about doing U Stick States and I

His name was wash Lee Marshall. He was he was really in the play business. And we called Lee Marshall and a guy named Joe marsh and like the following Monday, we had a meeting with them and they said, we'll back both of those tours. We'll put all the money up,

We'll back both of those tours. And we started doing not individual cities, but we started doing national tours and we did this this the Skinner Tour and the Sticks Tour and then and then then when it came then Irving did they had they did the Big Eagles Tour. Hell Freeze is over and Joe or Lee called me on the phone one day with Louis and they were like, hey, we want to make an offer to Fleetwood Mac. And it's a lot of money. Back then, it was four

hundred thousand dollars a show. And they said, you know, we're going to make an offer on the whole tour. So we're gonna are you are you are you in? Yeah? Okay, yeah, we're doing it. We got the we we got the Fleetwood Mac tour. We did we did the Flate Fleetwood Mac First Reunion Tour. We sold some shows to some promoters, but we promoted most of the shows all the way across across the board. Then Bruce started talking with s f X and he got an offer from SFX and

didn't tell us anything about it. Left like in the middle of the night, went to SFX, started SFX touring with with with Division with with with Sullivan Sullivan and and basically started telling everybody that that we weren't doing tours anymore. And somebody called me up, a friend of mine, uh called me up on the phone and said, Hey, you guys are doing tours. I got a tour that's going out. I don't know if you'd be interested in it, but it's Janet Jackson. And it was the Janet Jackson

Velvet Rope Tour. And Bruce had just left, and we made a deal to do the Janet Jackson Velvet Rope Tour fifty six states across the United States, and you know, you know, two days at the Garden with HBO special and did it with Roger Davies and and then after that, I basically I didn't want to keep on promoting against and and that I felt like that was the big time. And and s FX came courting Magic to buy Magic productions, and I was like, get me paid and and and

let's move on. And I'm going, I'm gonna, I'm I'm just doing I was doing Skinnered and sticks at the same time, and I was like, I'm I'm I'm not promoting anymore, and I haven't. I haven't promoted since then. I had. The last real big thing that that I did as a promoter was the Janet Jackson Velvet Rope Tour and it was phenomenal, and you know, and that was that was a good way for me to end

at that end of my career. But you got to check from sf X, the Magic got a check and I got paid from them, right, Okay, so today the landscape is different. You've been on both sides of the fence. What are the keys to negotiating a deal and what are the keys to make sure that you get all the money? I'm I'm I'm not an all the money kind of promote A manager. I like, I like for everybody to try and unless the artist, just the artist wants all the money. But if the artist is is

fair in the negotiations and stuff like that. I I don't squeeze everything out of out of everybody. I get the best deals that that the artists should get. And and I don't beat everybody up.

know what the deal is. They know who they got to overpay and who they who they can make fair deals with and and listen, a fair deal maybe that you know, the promoters, you know, the promoters still making very little profit. But but if they're if they're good with it, then it's then it's good. You know, Okay, but if you squeeze every penny out, what's the downside of them? The downside of it is is that that you do that enough times and nobody makes any money.

You know, you have, you have very little options left of who you work for.

there's there's definitely more money. And it's I think, I think in our eyes from our side, it's more transparent, whether it's been transparent to us or we found out how it's I mean, listen, I was I was a I I was a consultant on an amphitheater that opened in Atlanta. You know, I've been on the promoter side, so I know I know where the money's at. You know, you know and you know, so it's you know, you make that you make the deals based on what you know,

you know and and and what the risk is. I mean that's you know that that that's.

major market kind of stuff. That's where they live. So so I think that you know, they they there, they can roll things out on a national level way bigger that I think that the independent guys are probably better at rolling up their sleeves and doing the theater stuff or the arena stuff and secondaries and all that kind of stuff, because that's that's where a lot of their business is because they're they're not getting major shows in Atlanta because either AEG or Live Nations getting it from

a tour or from just from you know, the offers that they make. So do you have a take on ticket fees? Do I have a take on it? I I think just like everybody else does. I think that ticket fees are they're they're not that last article that you had. Ticket fees are not really set by the promoter.

I mean the ticket fees are are a part of I would I would not have any problem whatsoever if it was one price ticket and everybody everybody saw one price ticket, because quite frankly, when I buy, when I buy, if I buy a ticket and I buy tickets, I would rather see the tickets be. You know, you're paying seventy five dollars and you know that when you're pushing the button it doesn't go okay. Now here's your checkout stuff, and you got to pay for all this other shit

on top of it. So you would have your acts good all in pricing, I would I I would, Yeah, it would be, it would be, it would be easier, it would be, it would be it would be transparent to everybody what the what they're paying for. I don't think that for what it is, I don't think that the ticket master and all those kind of things are exorbitant. Nobody gives Nobody gives them credit for the business that and what it costs them to be in business, you know,

separate from Live Nation. So what's the best show you ever saw. What's the best show I ever saw? Wow? I mean, you know, I've I've seen this. The Stones are probably my favorite band the I saw, but I see I saw everybody and kind of like the Heyday. So I saw Zeppelin a bunch. I probably saw Zeppelin fifteen times. I saw The Who at least ten fifteen times. I mean I saw bands when they were really, really

in their prime. I mean the original Skinnered lineup. There were nights that I saw them and the Outlaws play together that that I would go like, these guys are all on another planet. I mean it, you know, like Skinnered, Skinnered in the Outlaws at the at Winterland was was just like, you know, total magic, the whole show. So I don't know that I have, you know, one one show that I look at and go like wow, you know, and and you know, my you know, the one thing

about the lineup that I've got that's my artist. I mean, they're they're they they are all pretty great at their craft. I mean they're you know, they're they're they all do really really good shows. That's part of what attracts me to an artist, because that's what I've always went by. How good somebody is on stage, Would I pay to see that show? Okay?

Somewhere in that time period, we came up with the Tommy Shaw and Kevin Cronin came up with the idea. We came up with the idea. We got all these bands to come in and play. Nobody made any money. We gave all the money to the Port Authority Police who basically we were the ones that were guarding the

World Trade Center. But when the money started getting coming in and money was going everywhere, it was going to the New York Police Department or the New York Fire Department all that and the Port Authority police was only like a total of like eight hundred people that worked for you know, there were forty thousand firemen, and yeah they lost you know, thou whatever the number was, these guys. Out of eight hundred people, they lost thirty nine people.

They knew everybody that died in that building.

I mean, you know, I did a Alex and Peter and I did an Amnesty International show with Bill Graham the one year on my birthday at the Omni in Atlanta, and the show was like staying you two all these people and and it ended up being the police instead of instead of instead of stinging, and it was that that that was that was magic. And I mean, I've got so many magic moments in my career that that I that I you know, I don't that whether I deserved it or didn't deserve it. I I've gotten way

way more than my share. I've gotten way more than my share. Explain it lamp to in Georgia. To me, Atlanta's just a it's a it's a it's a great place to live. Uh uh. I'm not going to get into the politics and everything like that, but I'm where I live, in the neighborhood that I live in. I'm not putting any signs up for for who I favor in any election, but I live in a great I live in a great place. I'm I'm ten minutes from

my office. I I can pretty much call and I mostly insist on buying tickets to shows, even if I have relationships with people and stuff like that, because I don't like comps. I don't. I don't like them from my end, and I don't like to be a guy that's calling and going CA, can you give me tickets to the show? And sometimes people go like, no, I'm not you know, I'm not You're not getting I'm not

selling you a ticket. I'm giving you a ticket. But I can go to any show that I want to go to, and I've had I've had options over my career early options to like go to New York for something and go to l a couple of times. I've never It's never been in my head that I'm going to get out of Atlanta. You know. I'm I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I'm in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. I'm

in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. But my band has the biggest song for the team that I supported since I was a young kid, which is Renegade in the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean, you can't make this ship up. I mean, it's you know, it's it's you know, it's it's a it's it's not bad. And a lot of people would probably change, you know, trade places with me. And I like where I am and and pretty much I like who I am? And where's your money? Where's my money? It's in What do you do with it?

You obviously made a good check of change. Is it in stocks? Is in real estate? Do you invest them? It's it's it's in all of you. It's in all of the above. Yeah. Yeah, I got a good I have a good stock guy that's done very well for me. I we own real estate, and I got money in the bank, and.

talked to him maybe four times a year. That's not that, that's not that's not what drives me. It's really not what drives me.

And I like to let the artists. I don't like to to get too much into what they're doing when they're creative. I like to help them in anything that they need help with. But I don't. I don't A and R stuff. I don't, you know, I don't. I don't do all of that. I give suggestions, but I usually don't give suggestions on anything that has to do with music or if they're going to do a video, if they're going to do you know, what the set design is, and stuff like that. I'll go like, hey,

you know, we're spending too much money. But but that's That's about the only thing that I'll say. And that's not my money that I'm worried about, it's their money. I'm much more protective of my artist money than I am of mine. And do you have paper with your artists? Never? And do you charge every artist the same percentage? Never?

structure is a driving kind of thing. That is the difference between whether you've got a relationship with an artists or not. I mean, you know, it'll all it will be reflected in what their bottom line is. If they're not making money, then you know, you know most of them won't be happy. There are some artists that are that that you know that that also you know, are not driven by money.

never drank like I did, you know. I mean, there was a rider that the Outlaws had, that that had you know, there was only six guys in the band and me and the tour manager. You know, besides the crew. Forget the crew, they weren't they weren't touching her alcohol. There were like four bottles of vodka, two bottles of are three bottles of Jack Daniels. I mean, it was like how to is how did these guys can? And there was one o'clock in the morning. Somebody was always looking for a drink.