Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob left Such podcast. My guest today is Carol Weafer, who has a new book, How to Write a Funny Speech. Carol, why this book? Why? Now?
Well, Bob, here's the situation. My co writer Rick Mitchell and I it was doing the writers strike, so we couldn't write any TV. We met for coffee. Rick had just been to an event where someone gave a real clunker of his speech at a wedding, and I had just come back from a wedding where the father of the bride gave a speech that was so bad people were talking about it as they were leaving at the
valet Parker. So we both said to ourselves, as professional comedy writers, you know, it's not that it's really not that hard to tell your average person how to do a speech, how to do a funny speech. And we felt like we could walk people through it a to Z, make it simple, make it easy, and do it as a public service so nobody else has to sit through
another god awful speech and an event. Even more so, Bob, because now, back in our day, a bad speech was a funny story sitting around a Thanksgiving something like that. Now it's being recorded, it might go up on the web and haunt you for the rest of your life. So that's why we felt we needed to do this.
Okay, I have to ask you. You do a lot of public speaking. The book is brief in for such a short book. I was sort of stunned how constructive it is. But it seems like preparation. You're a pro okay sopose to the person who has a speech a year or a speech of lifetime. You do a lot of public speaking. Do you prepare and write out a speech to this degree or do you do it off the top of your head?
Well, I prepare very intensely. I mean the uh, when you're especially when you're paid to speak to a group, you want to give it your best shot. So that doesn't mean you're kind of winging it up there and being loosey goosey. I mean you want to be in the moment. But I prepare very much, but I don't write it out. And this is what we tell people in the book to I have kind of bullet points of where that I want to go, so that I'm
not only you know. Another big mistake that people make that we found in doing speeches is that they look down and are reading the whole time, and you know that it is not good. You've got to be in the moment connect with people. So we recommend bullet points for a person speaking at an event, and for me, I do the same thing. I go up there and I have a very clear idea of what I want to do with each of those bullet points. But it is bullet points.
Okay. Do you have a couple of greatest hits? Do you have memories like a golf player or a baseball player. Oh yeah, I remember this hit in this game. Whatever. Do you have a couple of times where you have speeches? We go, man, I really hit it out of the park, use another sports metaphor.
You know where I really feel where you know. I like to give speeches, Bob. I don't know about you. If someone asks you to speak an event, whether you enjoy that invitation or not. As a comedian and more so as a person, I like speaking at events because I find it's very cathartic for me to share my feelings about a couple that were celebrating a person who's
having a big event. But especially I liked I find it especially cathartic when I'm speaking at a celebration of life, because it really helps me heal in talking about the person with people that loved this person as well. So I'll give you an example of something that really was good for me to talk about at this memorial because I knew that all the other people there would understand what I was talking about. My cousin Jay sadly passed away from cancer at fifty five, and he was an
amazing person. He was an amazing people person and everybody that knew him knew that about him that quality. So I told this story about how about when he was still well dealing with his cancer, his wife and my wife we all went together to the Greek to see the Beach Boys, and I know you had the great Mike Love on as well. So not only was I excited to see the Beach Boys loving their music, but
we were invited to the after party. And I was very excited to see Mike Love because I opened for the Beach Boys back in nineteen eighty two at Harrah's Okay in Tahoe. This is like one of my first big gigs, and I wanted to see if he remembered me. So we watched the concert. It's great. We go to the after party and there's Mike Love and you know when you're at a party and try to make your way to somebody, and I saw an opportunity and I missed it. And it's another opportunity that I am missed it.
And I go to the bar to get a drink. I turn around. My cousin Jay is talking with Mike G. Love like he's known him for a million years, so much so that when I walked up, my cousin Jay was actually, hey, Mike, do you know my cousin Karrols? She opened for you three thousand years ago at Harris. So I love telling that story because it encapsulated so much of my cousin Jay, and sharing that with everyone who knew that story was pitch perfect in the kind
of person he was. So that kind of thing always makes me happy to share what I love about this person, but also sharing with everyone what we loved about this person.
Okay, you also tell that story in the book, but you leave out did I'm sure I know the answer, did or did not? My glove remember you, I have.
To say I don't think he did.
I would assume he didn't.
Yeah, yeah, I think he was polite however he reacted, but I don't remember him going oh right, from forty years ago, Yes you, Carol Leefer, Now that didn't happen.
Okay, wherever you are today, what was the dream back then? What did you want to have happened? Or did you stumble into this when you were a little girl, you'd just say this is what I want to do.
Yeah, you know, since I was little, Bob, I've always loved to perform. I mean in our basement downstairs. I made it into a makeshift kind of stage and would get up on it and lip sync Barbara streisand albums or whatever. I just always loved the spotlight and the attack. And I always loved being funny because I got really good feedback ever since I was a kid from being
funny doing impressions or whatever. So I really feel like I am living my dream and have lived my dream for so many years because I just wanted to be in show business really bad.
Oh, Okay, you definitely are in show business. When I certainly became aware of you first, you were a stand up. In addition that you've written TV scripts, some of which are legendary like Seinfeld and the Marble Rye. You've written for the Academy Awards. All of this is fantastic. In the back of your mind, you say, well, I really wanted to be going back to our generation. I really wanted to be as big as Alan King or Joan Rivers.
You know, as I say, have you followed the ball where it bounced or is there still some dream you wish to achieve?
Well, that's a really good question. Well, I'm very happy with where my career is at. I mean when you ask, you know, becoming Joan Rivers or becoming Rodney Dangerfield, I don't know that I wanted to be a full time stand up comedian. And I'll tell you why is because what I love about comedy writing is what I loved about being funny growing up. You know, when you are stand up, you travel by yourself and you go here and there and you work on your own act by yourself.
But when I'm in a writer's room, I really feel like that's my nirvana. I'm with other funny people and the synergy and the chemistry of that. I'm kind of with my favorite people that people that speak my language, and that makes me really happy. So I'm really happy that I developed a writing career. It's funny when I was offered my first writing job, which was on Saturday Night Live in nineteen eighty five. I remember my dad was really important figure to me also because he dreamed
of being a comedian and a comedy writer. So the fact that I fulfilled his dream was something that he felled about and I was certainly happy about. But I remember my father saying to me, and I was like, I don't know, Dad, I still love doing stand up. He really pushed me to take the writing job because he said, Carol, in any business, it's always good to diversify, and I think, looking back, that's very very good advice.
I think my only regret would be, you know, I had my own sitcom, my short lived sitcom in nineteen ninety seven to ninety eight on the WB network called al Right Already, and it was kind of like my Seinfeld. I mean, I wasn't a comedian or anything in it, but I really wanted that to take off. I mean, I'm sorry that it didn't, but that was really a dream that I fulfilled. I just wish that it had been more successful.
Well at this late date, twenty five years in the rear view mirror. Okay, there could be many reasons why it was not as successful as you wanted to do. It could be timing in the schedule, it could be lack of promotion. It could be the audience didn't get it. Or you can look back and say, if I'd just done this or that, there would be a greater chance of success. So where does the lack of success of your personal show lie.
That is a very very good question. I look, I know you can't control everything. And by the way, to this day, the guy who was in charge of the WB, who ran the WB at that time, whose name I will not mention, still comes over to me and says, I'm so sorry I canceled your show. I'm so sorry, which I still enjoy. I still enjoy his apology. But there's one small regret I have, and I don't know that it would have turned the tide. But I do think about this one little element, Bob, which was when
they were deciding about renewing my show or not. It's a bit of a more complicated story than I thought. I remember Bill Carter, you know, the at that time, the media writer for TV writer for The New York Times. He liked my show, and he said, I'd like to write a piece on it, but if I know that it's coming back. So this was relayed to the big wig at the WB and he said, we're ninety five percent sure it's coming back. So I kind of believe
ninety five percent. So they had a big meeting that I was, you know, should have been at about whether they were going to pick it up or not. And I was on vacation in uh Hawaii, and I just thought, well, my people will handle it. Ninety five percent, We're good. And they did wind up the five percent canceling the show. So I just had that one small regret that because my philosophy of being around in show business for almost fifty years is on my end. I have to do
everything I can to make sure things are successful. That's my responsibility. So I'm just a little so worry that I didn't go to that that meeting, but I yeah, I still don't think they would have picked it up, but I do think about that.
Let's go back to the beginning. Would your father do for a living?
My father was an optometrist and his name was Seymour Come.
On Bob Listen, I got it, isn't it With comedians you're not supposed to laugh out loud and just go yeah, that's a good run or something.
He was an optometrist by trade, but he was the master joke teller of joke tellers. He was literally like, give me any subject, whatever subject you have, I have a joke on it. And you know a couple of things he told jokes when I look back now, as good as any pro that I know. You really had fantastic timing. He had an appreciation of But I saw how he connected with people through humor, and he was called the tumbler of the family. If you're familiar with the.
Course from the Mountains.
Yes, yes, he was always entertaining people with his jokes, and he was funny personally, but he also loved comedy. Like we listened to the two thousand year Old Man record in my house growing up. We could all practically lip sync it, Vaughan Meeterer albums, Alan Sherman. So I think not only watching him connect with people through being funny and his love of comedy, you know, watching the Ed Sullivan Show and watching the great comedians, you know
Jackie Mason, and Ronnie Dangerfield and Alan King. I mean this was like my comedy education through him. So yeah, he just, you know, he was never able to be professionally funny. And whenever I asked him, like, Dad, how hung you didn't pursue this yourself, I think he said something that a lot of men of that generation would say, which was you know, he said, Carol, I had to make a living. You know, it was a far off dream to his generation to take that leap, that risk.
But there's one story about my dad, you know, seeing that he was never able to make it professionally, but one story that gives me so much solace and happiness hearing about it. So my mom was a psychologist and every year she would go to the APA convention, their
meeting or whatever. And one time they went to one of those psychological events and the person running it said, oh, our entertainment dropped out, and my father said, well, I'm happy to go up and tell some jokes if you like, and they were like please, great, and I wasn't there, but apparently my father went up and he slayed them, I mean, just tore the room apart. And my mother was just so happy about it, and everybody was coming over to them afterwards, and that made me so happy
that he did have his moment in the sun. And the other thing that makes me feel good about my dad of him never getting to have a career in comedy, is that when my father passed, the first thing everybody said, and you know, you sit shiver for several days, you see a lot of people. The first thing everybody said was your father was so funny, and if he could know that, even that would would make him so happy.
Okay, where do he get his material?
That's a very good question. I don't know. I think over the years he just would hear a great joke and then remember it. I remember he had a list of jokes that he kept in his wallet, bullet points of what the jokes were. I think that's how he called all these jokes over the years.
Okay, my father told jokes too, you know, it's sort of a Jewish tradition. Do you remember a couple of his jokes.
I do remember a couple of his jokes. Yes, Oh, he loved telling this one for sure. So I don't know if you've heard this. One guy goes to the ticket window of a movie theater with a chicken on his shoulder and asked for two tickets. Particularly he asks who's going in with him. The guy says, my pet chicken. Here. Ticket lady says, I'm sorry, but we don't allow animals in the movie theater. So the guy goes around the block. He stuffs the chicken down his pants, goes back to
the ticket window, buys his ticket, and goes into the movies. Now, once the movie starts, the chicken starts to get a little hot, so the guy SIPs his pants so the chicken can stick his head out and get a little air. Naturally, woman sitting next to the guy sees this, and she is understandably appalled. She nurges her girlfriend. She goes this guy next to me just and zipped his pants. Woman says back, hey, look, you know you've seen one. You've seen them all. And the woman goes, I know, but
this one's eating my popcorn, all right. I got Bob to laugh.
Sounded like yeah too, Do you have another one?
I do have another one that Yes, Jewish women love this joke, as I hope you'll see. So this Jewish mom is out on the beach with her little toddler, having a great time. They're playing in the sun and the sand and the surf, having a wonderful time. All of a sudden, I don't know where, this huge wave comes up, picks up the toddler and shoots him out to sea. You know, the Jewish woman is beside herself.
She looks up at the sky and she says, Oh, my God, God, please, I'll do anything, anything, just please please bring my little boy back to me, Bring my little boy back to me. Next thing, you know, another wave comes up deposits the little boy back on the sand. There he is safe and sound. The Jewish mother picks him up. She squeezes her sun like she's never squeezed him before. She looks up at the sky and she says, he had a hat.
Ah. That is good, that is good. Okay, your father were his parents born in America?
No, they were, I believe somewhere of Poland.
Okay, yeah, did you know them?
I knew my grandfather, Well, I didn't really know. I was four when he passed away, so I did not know them. And I wish I really should find out where exactly they're from, because I did that ancestry thing and it came back just one hundred percent Jewish.
That's actually kind of rare. Really, there's usually three or two percent whatever, Bob, I have not done it, but I'm just talking anecdotally what I've read.
Huh, because did they other people's don't come back one hundred Lutheran? Like, what is with that? I don't get it.
And how about on your mother's.
Side, my mother's my grandparents, I think are they're from Russia? Yeah, so they're all from the Old Country as we call it.
As my grandparents were too. So how did your parents meet?
My parents met at City College, obviously in New York. Yes.
Do you know any more specifics of how they met at City College?
I don't, Other than this story was that my mother was the club cutie of some club she was in. And I just remember my father telling of a funny story because my mother was one of six kids, that the first time he went over to my grandparents' house to meet them, my uncle, her younger brother, opened the door and said to my father, we don't like your type and slammed the door.
That was a humorous thing, or was that real?
It was humorous these twenty years later, I'm sure right at the time, not very humorous because I'm sure my mother opened the door back up and was my little brother doing. But I remember that being part of the family lore.
And so how many kids in the family?
There were six in my it was.
On your generation, your brothers and sisters.
Three?
And where are you in the hierarchy?
I'm the youngest. And I don't know if you've heard this or not, but a lot of comedians are the youngest, the attention hogs.
Well, it's funny. My younger sister prides herself a comedian. You have the wherewithal to go as far as you did. What are the two older ones up to?
Well, the two you know, it's a family very entrenched in the mine world mind world. My brother's a psychiatrist, and my sister has a degree, she has her PhD in linguistics, but she is also a therapist as well.
Well, it's funny they're both in their field. Who ran the house? Who are the peants in the family, Your mother or your father?
I think my father, my father. It's funny though, when my mother, my mother became a PhD in psychology in the seventies, and you know, that was sort of unusual at that time for women to pursue their career like that, and I give her a lot of credit. But I remember that when my mother started to really embark on her getting her PhD, my father kind of took over a lot of the family chores, like he did the grocery shopping, and he always had a funny story about that.
I still remember to this day, Bob. He would talk about how when he went grocery shopping, some of the women would, you know, congregate in the aisles, and he would go around them with his cart and say under his breath, totally oblivious. But and then he started he did the grocery shopping. Then he started baking. He got my aunt Ellie's recipe for ruggluch and he started making it at home. And I'm telling you, I haven't had a piece of ruggloch that good since my father's, so
I think he's sort of when he retired. When he retired and my mom started to really pursue her education her PhD, that he sort of took over in that way and he did well with it. But he was also very very handy around the house. His father was apparently a landlord, so he learned so many things to do around the house. I know you're a big music lover as I am, because I listened to your pod. And when the Mamas in Papa's album came out and the song Monday Monday, he had such a jones for
this Monday Monday. He figured out some contraption Bob on the record player that it would keep it just the single, this contraption with string, that it would somehow keep playing Monday Monday over and over. So he was very inventive that way as well. But I think he certainly ran the house. He you know what Dad wanted, We we went along with. But it wasn't in a, you know, in a dictatory way, but I think he did. He did wear the pants.
And where did you grow up?
I grew up on Long Island in East Williston, Okay.
Where exactly is that?
Are you familiar with the are you need?
I'm gonna find out how familiar I am right now.
Okay. East Williston is a little town near Roslyn, Minneola.
Okay.
Yeah, And I just found out recently that my George Santos was the congressman from where I grew up, which I could not believe, could not because it was so democratic and when I was growing up, and to hear that it, wow, it flipped the other way was a bit eye opening to me.
So did you go to public school?
I did go to public school. I went to the school system where I grew up. I think it's still in the top one hundred, if not, like maybe number one of the public schools. People really wanted to live in the area I grew up and because the schools were so great, and I did get a great, great education.
So what kind of kid were you? Were you a smart kid? Did you do well? You know, how did you fit into the school hierarchy?
I like to think I always did well in school. I have my own son now and this doesn't apply. When I was growing up, it was like, of course I had to do well in school. My parents would have killed me.
He you know, this came up just yesterday. Looked like and they literally would have killed us.
Absolutely exactly.
Yeah.
And it was I think a healthy fear that we had of being killed.
I can remember. I remember came home on a freshman year with what my father considered to be a bad report card. He started to lose it so much, was so angry that it was less me say, feeling the blow of his being eager, saying, this guy is so out of control it is weird.
I get it. I totally get it. It does not sound a strange at all to me. Yeah, So did I did well in school? And you know, in high school, I think I was part of a good crowd. I played sports in high school, I was a cheerleader, So school was always good and fun for me. I did it, was in a lot of skits, and did a lot of comedy in high school. So I you know, like I told you earlier, early on, I knew that I wanted to perform and be out there on stage.
Okay, so you graduated from high school and you go to Binghamton to college. What was that like?
Well, Binghamton was great and I really credit it now looking back with a sort of serendipity of where I am today, because well, I went to Binghamton because my older sister Jane had gone there and I visited and I really liked the school. Also, maybe you can relate to this too, Bob. Growing up, you know, my father is like, can go to any school you want, as long as it's a state school. So Binghamton was the
school for me. But while I was there, I was in a theater group with a guy named Paul Reiser, and he was the one who told me that there were these comedy clubs springing up in Manhattan. This is all really new, this is like the late seventies. And he told me about how anybody could go on an open mic night and do five minutes. He had done it, and I did it with Paul. You know, went to an open mic night. I look back now, I can't
believe that it, you know, twenty and twenty one. I had the hutzpah to go and do this in a New York City nightclub. But that's also the beauty of youth, having this freshness. And I passed the audition at two comedy clubs, one the Comic Strip where Jerry Seinfeld was the MC that night who put me through, and I passed the audition. Another club, Patchurizing Star that's no longer there, and the MC that night was Larry David who put
me through. So I literally go back to my first stay of show business with these guys.
Okay, you grow up on Long Island, you go to Binghamton. Although you meet Paul Riser is it weird being in a large population with many fewer Jews.
Wait, what do you mean like when I left? Wait, he asks me, what you mean?
Okay, I grew up in the suburbs in Connecticut. I went to college. You know, just you're talking about when you're in the suburbs. It wasn't that the Jews were the dominant population in my town, or there were plenty of Jews, but their parents scared him into doing well in school, such as there were a lot of Jews in the top classes. Then I went to college, there were very few Jews, and it actually made me more Jewish. I was wondering if you had a similar experience.
No, No, In fact, I grew up I think in a very Jewish area was one thing. But you know Roslyn Heights, I mean it was almost all Jewish. But when I went to Dampton, it was very, very big Jewish population of students. So I think even more so than where I grew up.
Okay, how did you literally meet Paul Riser?
I literally met him. I had auditioned to be in this our dorm. Our dorm section was doing you can't take it with you to play, and I auditioned and I got it, and Paul was in the ensemble. Of course he was hilarious, and that's how I met him.
Okay, you meet him, you like him. You're you know, a couple hundred miles from the epicenter of culture in New York City. Do you say to yourself, Oh, this is just a funny guy, or do you say, wait a second, this guy is pretty funny, more funny than the people I grew up with. You know, maybe I'm in college now, maybe this is going to turn into something.
Yeah, well I skipped one part. Boy, this guy is really funny and he's really cute too, And I dated him. I mean, we quote from mel Brooks's two thousand year Old Man, I vented him. So yeah, I just I just could tell from going to these nightclubs. This to me felt like a shortcut to Hollywood and fame, because, you know, when I came up and my open mic nights, this was happening to comedians. Freddy Prince would go on the Tonight show Boom the next day he had a sitcom.
It really was the stepping stone to big, big things for people. So I felt like, instead of doing acting and an agent and an audition and all this stuff. I can kind of control this, uh, this path myself, and that always appeal to me. And also I can control my own comedy, which I've always loved over the years, like win or lose. I'm still driving the car here.
Okay, let's go back to Paul Riser. I got a reason I'm going here. So how do you end up dating him?
How do I end up dating him? Well, how does anybody want to do?
Well? Okay, wait, okay, you and me both know it is very, very difficult to make it to have this level of success, and talent is nowhere near the major percent well, it is is nowhere near the percentage of the wes. And somebody makes it as people think they do. There are people who have drive and have opportunity. I'll give you an example. You emailed me, which I was thrilled. I've known who you are for decades, and then you
mentioned being on the podcast. I was going to ask you, okay, but you threw it out there, not in an aggressive fashion. So I am interested in the personality. I mean, okay, I was dealing with somebody who was a radio consultant the other day when they became a music supervisored. So the opportunity came up, I had no idea what I was doing. I said, yes, I know this person. You know,
he sort of puts himself in the mix. So are you saying, I mean, let's say Paul Reiser is there very verbal person, You're a very verbal person, and you meet him whatever. You know, there are people waiting at home for the phone to ring, and there are other people saying, hey, we should go get a pizza. Hey, you know pushing it forward? Is that your personality?
Oh? Completely? And you know I keep talking about because it still stupefies me that I'm doing this for almost fifty years.
Yeah.
I have always been someone who it's very simple equation to me. You know, I enjoy your podcast. I enjoy your emails every day, and when I am a fan of someone and I feel like I would potentially be a good mix with someone. You know. I had a publicist for my book. I told her way back when to go after getting on your podcast. Nothing ever happened. So now that I'm not working with her, well, it's not all that hard. You ever an email? I email too,
I'd love to be on your show. I'm glad you pointed out, and not in an aggressive way, because I really feel when you take that step of approaching someone personally, you have to be delicate because if someone feels like you're steamrolling them, you know. I'm on the other side of that. Sometimes I feel like no, no, no, no, no,
not interested, and I always go into it. If you had not gotten back to me or gotten back to me and said I'm sorry, I don't have room right now, or whatever your way of saying no was, I would have been fine with it. I mean, I've learned along the way to go after things that I'd like to do, but at the same time, if they don't happen, it's okay, It's.
Okay, okay. Jumping forward, how do you end up writing for the Oscars?
Well, yes, a big jump, but I'm taking it the Oscars, like many things in show business, I was just kind of doing my thing. I think the first time was I was approached was ninety seven, maybe Bruce Falange reached out to me. He was the head writer and asked
if I wanted to write for the Oscars. I remember passing the first time because I was in the middle of doing my then sitcom, and then after that I remember, he asked me another time and the next time, and I jumped in and since then, you know, I've done it many times, many many times over the years. And of all the things I love to do, and I do love to do many different things involving comedy, award shows are one of my favorite, absolutely, and especially the
Oscars because it's the big kahuna. It's the award show that all the other award shows bowed down to. So I'm very honored to be a part of it.
Okay, when Bruce calls you, do you have a relationship with Bruce? Do you know Bruce at that point? Yeah?
I think I think we probably if we didn't, if we weren't friends, we certainly would see each other at things. I mean. Another thing that I love about being a comedian, about being a funny person is that, uh, you know other funny people. We're all one people. So when I meet another comedian, I don't have to know what his act is or what her shpiel is or whatever, just knowing that they're professionally funny, there's instantly a bond. I
find that people sometimes have this misconception. They asked me about my career where people cutthroat, people competitive and yeah, you know, trying to derail. It's the complete opposite. When I find I'm with funny people, it's the most supportive, fun group of people I could ever be with. Like I said earlier in our conversation, we speak the same language. I feel like I'm with people who have the same a similar personality to me in certain ways. So, yeah,
Brews gotten in touch with me. I don't know how well he knew me, but he certainly we knew. I knew of him, of course, but you know he knew of me.
Okay, So a lot of you grew up in New York. You mentioned the clubs, you know, catch a rising star, et cetera. At the same time, does every comedian know every comedian?
Well, not to sound like an old timer, but back in the day, he pretty much did. I mean, I think younger comedians are really just surprised when I tell them, Like when I started, you knew the comedians that were in New York it was probably twenty five people, if that female wise, there were probably four or five. And then out on the West Coast, I got it was
very prestigious at that time. Someone came in from oh I should remember the club's name, but it was like a club in Claremont and one in Newport Beach, and they would fly you out there and you could perform these clubs. And then when I went out to California and I saw the scene out here, there are literally twenty people probably that were doing stand up. Now I can't even begin to tell you how many comics there are.
I go on a lot of times at the Comedy and Magic Club, which is in Hermosa Beach, and I like it because they do a lot. It's ten comics. They call it ten for ten, ten comics each doing ten minutes. And I just went this past Saturday. I meet all these great new young comments and every Saturday it's like a new crop. So, yeah, we did know most of the comedians back then.
Okay, you know Netflix was doing a stand up a week. There. There's a plethora of comedy. Forgetting the comedy bloom of the eighties and nineties, let's just talk about now. There's a plethora of comedy. Comedy is a broad swath, but let's just start with stand up. There's more than ever before. It's more available than ever before. I'll use music as an analogy, it's more than there ever was before. It's
big business, but I've been around since the Beatles. It doesn't represent what it used to be, and the acts are in as good. What would you say about comedy.
I would actually say about comedy. I don't. I still think people are doing it and doing it well.
I just.
You know, I think I also feel like I have to watch my old person ness, my boomer ness and say, eh, you know, the new crop they're not as good as weird. And then there's a lot of great comedy out there. And what I think is great about comedy, And you know, by the same token music is if you don't like it, don't listen to it. But you know where I feel like there's certainly a dearth of new rock stars per se. Boy, there's just a shitload of comedy that's out there and
really good. I mean you start to think, you know, is there one more airline joke that that's funny? Yeah, I just heard one this past Saturday night. There you know, still mining out there, you know, we're their heads with the lamps on it and finding very good stuff. I think it's great.
Okay, to what degree do you feel the competition.
I don't feel the competition, and I'll tell you why, for a couple of reasons. One is I noticed that when I go up as an older person, I mean, I don't think I you know, I'm a boomer, but I think people people like it. I would say, you know, people my age like to hear from someone of their generation, but I think younger people like it as well. I remember, you know, watching older comedians when I was young and enjoying them. But I don't feel competitive because nobody is me.
Nobody is me Bob, and I have my own take. I've always had my own individual take on things that connect with audiences. I'm pleased to say, and the more that I keep writing, I don't feel like I'm ever in anybody's class. And the great thing about comedy is it's all about what you're putting out there, and if what you're putting out there is good, you're not really in competition with anybody else because it's your own thing.
So how would you describe your own act in your own sensibility?
My act, Well, i'd like to I think it's I'd like to think it's whimsical. It's not aggressive or attacking or anything like that. I feel like it's just it's whimsy. But the great thing about I think being a funny person. And I heard this from I was flying back, no airline joke to come. I was flying back from somewhere and they had a masterclass by David Sedaris and I watched it, and I thought he said something pretty profound that I hadn't realized for all these years that I
do comedy. And he was talking about how funny people have the advantage of having embarrassing or terrible things happened to them and then making humor out of it. I like, for example, what he talked about was, I'm paraphrasing, but he went to the doctor for something and they asked him to want dress and put on one of those horrible robes that open in the back, and they had said,
and then go to this room and wait. And he went into this room where there were all people dressed and waiting, and he sat there for a couple of minutes before he kind of realized, oh, I'm apparently in the wrong room, and he left. But he was talking about how too, you know your average person, that's a horrible thing and you just kind of Grin and Barrett, you go off to the other room. But funny people, we can take that story and make hay of it
and make it humorous. So the terrible things that happened to us can become fodder. And I found that in my own life, you know, Like I was walking my dog recently in my neighborhood and I got to a crosswalk and instead of stopping, this car of young guys came and barreled through the crosswalk, almost hitting me. And so what did I do. It was kind of stupid. I flipped them off, so big mistake. You know, they did a new turn. They're following down the street, honking
their horn. I was really scared. And then one of them rolled down the window and he said to me, you're a fat whore. And he also said, and your dog is ugly. But anyway, so I tell this story now on stage of what happened minus the dog, you know, and he said you're a fat horror and yeah. It was really shaken up. And I went home and I said to my wife, yeah, fat, And the audience loves the story. You know, I've taken something that was really upsetting to me, and now it's part of being funny.
If you went back and looked at your early material, would you cringe or you say, no, that's my act.
Oh, now I'm very Someone recently sent me my first letterman, which was in nineteen eighty two. I mean, it's like watching my daughter. It's like that far back, and I just get a real kick out of it. I really even sort of miss I have. I had this kind of joyful, you know, uncratered enthusiasm going out there that I sort of miss now, this youthful exuberance, No, I love. I love watching my old stuff and remembering what I was thinking when I was doing it, and what was going on, and all.
That tell me about your state of mind today visa the yesteryear. That youthful exuberance you say you wish you had, you say you don't have it, tell me about that.
I don't know. I think that I look back at that youthful exuberance and I just look at it as being young. I mean I miss it justin in being young. I don't miss it in terms of oh I wish that, wish I had that today. It's just to me, watching your younger self is fulfilling in a certain way, because it's like, oh, that's who I was back then, and look at me. I was really acting young because I
was young. So I do miss the like when we were talking about when I went on those open mic nights at twenty and twenty one, I do miss the I would say recklessness, but it's not the jumping in to anything when you're young, because you're young and maybe in a way clueless of the consequences, but you're ready to jump off that cliff. And certainly now as an older person, you know, I'm not going to go hang gliding. I'm not. I know you ski. It's like, what what
are you thinking? I don't want to fall. I've had too many friends at this age fall. I have to get a good pair of sneakers. Maybe I'll get sketches. Bob, Yeah, right, spoke so highly of them. But yeah, there's a certain caution being older that I respect a lot.
Well, I'm less worried about that aspect then more the state of mind, of career and then mixing and aging. Yes, when you're nobody from nowhere, you have this incredible desire to push walls down and make it by anybody's standards. In comedy, in Hollywood, You've made it. I'm not saying that reads a complacency. It could in some people, but certainly not in your case. But you know, you look at the game and say, well, what are the targets out there? And even if I achieved that target, would
it mean enough for me to do it? You know, once I achieved it?
Yeah, Well. The good thing about stand up comedy is I know that there's more for me to say, there's more jokes for me to write, There's more things I like to say and talk about. So I always look ahead optimistically in that way. And as we've been talking a lot before about this, nobody has will ever have my act or my jokes. So to me, that's always been a big advantage in the SHOWPI Is World, because I'm not trying to write a show for somebody. I'm not.
You know, it's a whole different thing when you work in one as one, and I always think like there's always an audience for I think what I'm doing, what anybody's doing. If you connect with whoever you connect with, that to me that that's a thumbs up. And more importantly, I think Bob I dig being creative. That's my Jones. You know, that's my thing. It really makes me feel alive. Really, it's what led to writing my book. I mean, I was writing a TV I couldn't do it because of
the strike. Honoring the strike. I always like to be that I'm working on. That's I'm thinking about that. Yeah, that's that's my fix.
Okay, let's look at Bill Maher. Let's not get into his act or whatever. And he's got a TV show's had a TV show for thirty odd years. He says he's quitting the road if you look at some of his numbers, not necessarily going clean everywhere. But that's not really the point. I know Richard Lewis. I knew Richard a certain amount, not a lot. Which people don't realize about Richard, which I have to throw in, is he
was that guy. You know, there's so many people you think, oh yeah, you know, it's just so hilarious, but you know, well he only he unfortunately passed, but he only wanted to do so much work. Now, your career is not that of the average stand up comedian. But let's say the aviad, you know, we look at it. You could go book thirty dates of whatever number of tickets you could sell somewhere between five hundred and fifty thousand, and you can go out and you collect money. You reach
this age. Is that's still satisfying?
Absolutely? Absolutely? Yeah. I don't know why. I'm just interested. Why would you think it would not be?
Oh okay, let's use a couple of examples musicians. Musicians have hits otherwise you can't play it all. And if you go on the road you have to play those hits and people find out you're not, then people are not going to come. There are a lot of musicians who say, hey, yeah, you know, I'm singing my hit, I'm thinking about doing the laundry, etc. We live in
an interesting world where there's so much stuff. Okay, such a if you do something live, it's a momentary thing for that audience, and then you move on and do it for another audience. With a comedian, it tends to be a similar act. So uh huh. At what point do you say, well, I'm out here, it's fun hearing people laugh, I'm getting paid, but it doesn't mean the same thing because it's not moving my career forward. Let
me throw that into the mix. It used to be in the sixties certainly the seventies, if you wanted to be successful, going on the road was part of growing your audience. Okay, certainly for an established comic who's charging an admission fee in excess of thirty five dollars, it's not really growing their audience. That's not how you grow your addies. Not to mention it, it's so hard to
grow your audience today. So you could be sitting at home saying, especially if you have enough in your bank account. You know, this is sort of a pass thing. But using an example, I could come up with a tweet that's so good it could go viral. I could do a skit on TikTok so good, I could reach millions of people. Whereas, if I go on the road, I'm gonna, you know, when I'm all said and done, I'm gonna, you know, reach a small fraction of the population. And
am I really moving the needle forward? You know? Conversely, you're talking about playing the Oscars. You know, we can debate all day long how many people actually watch the show, et cetera, But a shit ton do And you say, I'm sure if you're there, and the comedian lands your joke and there's a big laugh. You know you're talking about velling. This is the greatest thing that ever happened.
You're on a high for a couple of days. Okay, But that's different from saying, oh, yeah, I told a joke and Poughkeepsie the audience loved it.
I don't know. I think you're missing the experience of being a comedian because as many times as I've told the joke, when the audience laughs at it, it's like the first airing the laugh for the first time. But it's interesting what you bring up, Okay, Bob, because you know, I'm getting a re education on comedy every moment because things change, and things changed drastically from when I started
in nineteen seventy seven. For example, Now I've thought a lot about, ah god, it would be great if I could get a special like on net Felix or Hulu Prime one of those. I'm not going to get a special. It's just not going to happen. But talking to these young comics as I do now, one of them was telling me the other night he went on and he said to the audience, oh, this is great because I'm about to tape my special. And after he got off stage, I said, Oh, that's cool. Who are you doing this
special for Netflix Hulu? He was like, I'm taping it myself and then I'm putting it up on YouTube. And I was like, oh, like why would you do that? He was like, Oh, that's the way to go these days. Tell me how a comedian he knows that a Netflix special. He did so much better putting his own up on YouTube. And then I was like, okay, and then I'm thinking about material, how much material I need? What do you need to do an hour now and fifteen? He is like, no,
thirty forty minutes. You can do less than that. People only a wived for the first ten minutes. And then suddenly, now I seek that I can have a special. And do I do a special? I performed for so many Jewish groups? Yeah, so surprised. I could do a special of all my Jewish material and put it out there, and I bet you, Bob, I bet you I'd get twenty or thirty groups that hire me, which would be fantastic. So yeah, I think there's always that. To me, was
so exciting to hear that. That made my year hearing that thinking about a special, and especially my personality as you touched on earlier. I can make this happen in three seconds.
Fantastic, Okay, I had the same experience. I see a lot of comedy on TikTok and Instagram reels and they'll say my special, and I'll say this person has a special, And that's how I found about the YouTube specials. But you just laid it out. You speak to Jewish groups, you have the material. What's going to take to get you over the hump to actually do it?
You mean to actually get the gigs, no.
To film, you know what. Listen, ten minutes plus ten minutes is enough. Yeah, you stand up there and you do ten minutes worth of Jewish stuff. It's going to lead to work.
Yeah.
So you found out about it the Comedy Magic Club. Are you going to do it?
Of course I'm going to do it. Of course. Am I going to do it right now? I don't know. I'm promoting my book, Bob. That takes a lot of energy and effort. I'm also of the age that I am like to be in bed around ten you know what I mean? My souted ten twenty. You know, comedy. The biggest challenge for me is it's a young person's game. In terms of the hours. You know Fraser Smith, who was you know, a big DJ on k Los. He's out there killing him. I worked with him Saturday night.
He's so funny. He was like, come on my show at the comedy Store. I'm like, great, I haven't been on at the comedy store. This is a way in. He was like, yeah, I start my show at nine thirty. And I was thinking, all right, I'd like to do it, Frasher, but you got to get me on early. I got to get home, I got to get to sleep. Can I tell you another joke that my father told all this reminded me of this. Oh my god, do I love this joke? Okay, So this guy comes home from
the doctor. The wife says to him, what did the doctor say? Guy says, I can't believe it. Doctor says I have twenty four hours to live. The wife is like, oh my god, I can't believe it. Well, what would you like to do? And the husband says, how about sex? So they have sex and then she says all right, honey, what would you like to do? Now? He says, how about some more sex? She goes, okay, honey. Now when they're done, she says what would you like to do?
Now?
The husband says, how about sex one more time? She goes, look, I gotta get up in the morning. Yes, so I gotta get up, Bob.
Okay, those are a couple of your father's greatest hits. Do you have a couple of jokes whether you tell them on stage just amongst friends that are just your favorites and you whip.
About, Oh, jokes that I tell hm, that is interesting. You mean jokes for my act that I like to tell people.
They can be from your act, but a couple of things that you know, you know, we'll always get a laugh, irrelevant of context, who's president, whether the you know, the economy, who the audience is. You know, you tell this joke and you smile because it always works, and you like to tell it.
Okay, well, oh why I you know, talk about when I mentioned to you. It doesn't matter how many times you've told the joke. If people laugh, that's all you need. I'm not sitting there thinking, oh, I have to tell this joke one more time. I'm always like, I get to tell this joke one more time. Now. I do a lot of you know, gigs where I got to fly there Okay, So I love doing this joke because people always like to know that you're in the moment,
that you're in their city, that you got there. So many times I start my set by saying, oh, it's great to be here. You know, I flew in yesterday. But I have a great travel tip for you guys. You know how like when you fly on Southwest and you want to keep that seat empty next to you, I have the best way to do it. Okay, when someone walks down the island and says to you, is someone sitting here? Just say no, one except the Lord.
And it always works. It always always works. So once I do that joke, I know I'm in like Flint and I can use that expression with my fellow boomer.
Yes, absolutely a little believe it or not. I never saw those two movies. But okay, let's go back. So how do you decide to leave Binghamton and go to New York.
Well, it was a very easy decision for me because I had passed the audition at the Comic Strip and it was the summer of my junior year, finishing my junior year, and I decided I wanted to become a comedian, So I told my parents. It's another thing. I look back now, I go to my Jewish parents, I'm going to leave college. I will finish at Queen's College, which was my mother's alba mater, so I had some brownie
points there. But when I look back, and I think I said to me, I want to start to try to become a comedian, and my father says to me, well, look, you got to strike while the iron's hot. You know that was pretty remarkable. I don't know how I would feel as a parent if my kid had done the same thing. So that's how I left Binghamton and finished my education at Queen's. God. I used to do a joke back then Bob about Queen's which was, you know,
it's a very tough school, Queen's College, very tough. You need a pen to get in the young people. They don't use pens.
Now, Okay, the act that you did to pass the audition, how long did you work on that act before you took the stage.
Not long. I just kind of I think I had kind of done a version of it at Binghamton opening for a friend of mine who is a singer. So I had an idea and I'm sure I ran it by Paul, and I'm sure Paul ran his set by me. Yeah, not a long time.
Okay, you moved to New York, you know the stories have become legendary. Yeah, I'm working at five clubs in night. What happened to you? First you were in school? A Were you doing that? B? Did you have a day gig after you graduated from school?
I did well. First, I was living at my parents' house. I was going to Queen's College during the day, and at night I would drive into the city to do my act. And then, you know, it was a pretty great at Queen's College. I had a professor who let me, Yeah, he let me do this as a course. I would come in and play my tapes of my stand up and we would listen to it and critique it. And I think that was pretty great. Thank you Queen's College
for the support. So when I graduated school, I moved into the city and I had to get a job. So for three seconds I worked at this coffee company, a coffee wholesale, and then I remember the boss saying to me, my friend needs somebody at his office. He's a private eye and he needs a secretary and I was like, it was a good typer. I was like, so I met with the guy and it was a private eye. It sounded really very you know, very glamorous
and very you know, Maltese falcony. But he was a guy who gave polygraph tests two people who wanted to work at places as varied as burger king and escort services. So he needed someone to type up via dictaphone, that archaic piece of technology writing up the reports. So this is a great job for me for two reasons. One was, as mentioned, I was a very good typer, so to operate the dictaphone, I was asis at that. But also
he was very understanding of my stand up situation. I said to him, because I was going on so late, can I work eleven to six with no lunch? And he said, okay, is a lot of the work it's done, okay, So to get to the office at eleven that was nice. That was very understanding of gracious of him. So that's what I did. Until I was seeing that I was making enough money. My first gig, oh my god, Bob
Baroque College in Manhattan, one hundred bucks to perform. I felt like I had hit the Vegas jackpot one hundred bucks. Oh my god. So yeah, that was my day job. I just was in Manhattan recently and I just passed by four fifty seventh Avenue just to look at the building again of where I worked. Yeah, it's funny.
Okay, how long after college could you give up your day job?
I think it was about tak about a year. That's so bad what.
Happened within that year financially such as you didn't need it anymore?
I found that I was making enough from gigs you're in there to pay the rent and be able to just be a full time, full time comedian. That was another thing that my father said when I said I wanted to be a comedian. He said, you know, it's a cash business, and cash is king Carol.
As long as you don't put it in the bank. So yeah, okay. On the West Coast, they weren't paying the comedians at the conventional clubs. Hey, what was the situation on the East coast? And to what degree were there like at Baruke College? What were these other gigs and how did you get them?
You know, you got cab fare at these clubs, which was about five bucks, but you also got to eat there, but you couldn't have cheesecake. That was only if you were the empcy, but so free meals. It just became like, hey, there's a club in Jersey, they drive you out, you perform, You make forty bucks here and there, you do a college, you get the hundred bucks's. It was all kind of
word of mouth, kind of booking. Somebody did this gig, Oh you should do this gig, and blah blah blah, and you kind of through connections started to make enough money that way.
And when you're doing that, you give up your day job. What is the dream? Dev ready to court of a see you? What would you say? This would be what's happening?
That was the absolute holy ground to get on the I think in my journey what happened was gladfully David Letterman had seen me. I was in a New York comedy competition and I always talk about it because I came in fourth and Eddie Murphy came in fifth. Okay, yeah, good job, judges right. And then when he got his show, oh, he recommended me to the Tonight Show and they passed. But when he got his late night show, he put
me right on. So and then I went on to do it twenty five times, but it kind of marginalized me as a Letterman act. So the Tonight Show didn't really take me seriously. But Bob relentless garral Leifer never say die every time I would no audition for it, audition over and over and over. And then finally two months before, three months before Johnny retired, they booked me on the show, So I got to do it once with Johnny.
Okay, when you say auditioned for them as a practical matter, what was that you actually did.
They would come to a club and they would put together a showcase for them of comedians and I would be one of them.
Okay, you worked with them all. You know amongst the younger generation, Letterman is cakeing. Letterman changed late night because it really became more of a comedy show, whereas with Johnny and his generation or more interviews, you didn't have to come in with the so called funny story like you do today. So what has been your experience with all these late night hosts?
Well, the great thing about doing sense well on any show, you know, I did MERV Griffin back then, and a solid gold you know, a cornucopia of appearances on shows. You just had to go out and do your thing and be funny. Let me tell you some MERV Griffin audience, those white haired ladies, you know, with the pocketbooks in their lap. That was not an easy audience. But that toughens you up. You know, you have to really do badly as a comedian to get good. There's no way
around that. You have to figure it out, and a lot of that is bad sense. But another thing that I'm seeing now, Bob, with the evolution of time and how things work, you know, with my book now, to me, I'm always like, I gotta get on the tonight show. I gotta get on this show. It's podcasts. It's podcasts. You're in a good business, Bob. You struck while the iron was hot, corning up. When my editor told me the other day, O'Brien, you're doing his podcast so the
most books by far. So you know, it's a it's a different it's a different world now. But I don't know. I think it was very good for stand up comics back in my day because it was the pathway to getting your own show, you know, becoming a quote star. It's not that now, even you know, writing on shows like Seinfeld. When I the Marvel Why which was my episode when it aired the next day, everybody was talking about it was a water cooler show. I hadn't explained
to our son what water cooler show means. People you know, we're on mass would watch these shows and could reference them. So, uh, that was a special time. That's not happening anymore.
Okay, But you would go on Letterman, you would riff with him. How much of that was one hundred percent in the moment And what was the essence of Dave? What made him special?
Well, you certainly didn't. You sat down and you knew there were bullet points of things he was going to talk about, but so much of that was spontaneous, just to people talking. I always had a great connection with him in those days. He was so supportive of me. I mean, he executive produced one of my specials at the time. So I always felt going out there, which is important, that he was an ally, that he was a friend, so that that made it easy. And he
is really, and back then, especially a master interviewer. I mean, any any artifice, any bullshit that comes his way, he you know, will not have it. You know, he takes out the knife and cuts away the bullshit fat. So that also made it fun because you knew you had to be at the top of your game certainly talking to him, that's for sure.
Okay, this is a classic question. Anybody in the New York scene who didn't make it big, who you thought was going to.
Oh, there are always lots of people like that. Wow, I hate to say their names just because I don't.
Let me ask a different question. Are they still in the game.
No, No, A lot of people had to make the decision at a certain point when it wasn't working of like,
I've got to find something something new to do. And I've found out with actors as well that I've worked with along the way, you know, se la Vie, but I you know, but know that there were some incredible people who people had their eye on and said this person is going to skyrocket and for whatever reasons, And you know, along the way, there are self defeating reasons, self sabotaging reasons, some people that just didn't try hard enough. Because as we were kind of touching on before, you know,
there's no coasting. I mean, in this business, you always have to advocate for yourself. It's like a shark. You got to keep swimming because if you don't, you'll go by the wayside. I think quickly. So I think people who are successful and have stayed successful have really put the work in to keep themselves relevant and happening.
Did you ever contemplate giving up going straight? As they say?
No, I mean maybe I did early, early on, because you have so many bad stuffs and so much horror when you start. And my mother did confess to me a few years later. I thought you were going to be a lawyer, you'd get it out of your system. But I never did for too long. I mean, I don't mean this in a big headed way. I just mean it in an honest way. I've always believed in myself, Bob.
I just I've just always felt like I have something to say and I think it's good and I think it's funny, and if people don't get it, I'm just gonna keep doing it. That's my attitude.
Okay. Seinfeld gets his show with Larry Day. The average person doesn't know lyric except the guy in the background on the Friday show. At that point in time, it's called the Seinfeld Chronicles. It was the initial order, I think four episodes. Whatever you hear that they have a show needs say iconic looking back, But when they got the show, did you say, oh, good for them, or one of us is finally broken through, or they're on their way, or you know they're doing what they're doing.
I'm doing what I'm doing.
Well. Of course, being friends with both Jerry and Larry, I was thrilled when Jerry got the show. I thought that was great. I thought they were totally onto something, and I thought, that's fantastic for them, That's that's great. I was heavily into doing my stand up at the time, but you know, I thought it was fantastic. Like I was saying, comedians love other comedians. I would be nothing but happy for two of my good friend's success. What's
interesting about my writing on Seinfeld? As many times I've touched upon in our conversation my being a fan and pursuing avenues that I'm interested in, Actually these guys came to me and asked me if I wanted to write on the show. So that was very lucky for me because I was lucky that Larry David didn't want to hire any writers that had written for TV before. Because he felt like they had been poisoned by the system. So I was lucky that they reached out to me
because we were friends. They liked to work with people that they already had a good rapport with, you know, sitting in writing rooms and being on a show as many hours of being with people, so you got to like hang. It be an easy hang to work at these jobs. And I was very complimented that they felt like my style of writing would compliment the show. But when I did get the job, and that was thrilling to be hired as a writer over there. You bet I went in the first day with three pages it's
got to be sixty ideas of things. I wanted to be ready when I showed up for the first day that you know, I wanted to make sure they knew they made a good decision.
Okay, so drill a little bit deeper. You show up the first day. How did it work?
It worked rather well because I pitched. I know, I definitely pitched one of the ideas that eventually became.
Let me change it. Your first day? Was it us with those two What was the first day the whole so called writer's room.
Yeah, the first day was just the writer's room, just meeting everybody and people had some writers had been there before, so kind of giving us a lay of the land of how it works and being with Larry and Jerry, and it was a bit of a getting to know you time.
Okay. So in terms of scripts, did everybody come with ideas and then they sifted through the ideas? How did they split up the work?
Yeah, at Seinfeld, it was really all about the ideas, and so how it worked was you would go in individually and pitch to Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld in their office. They shared an office and took a seat and gave it your best shot with ideas and they would either spark to things that's great. Especially Larry David would get very very excited and animated when he liked one of your ideas. It was just thrilling to him to seize upon something that he could see he could
make hay out of. And then there are cluckers along the way. But you know, like you'd get that nah, I don't know, I could see that on another show. I don't know. But if you hit on something that they liked, it was, you know, a howl Loujah moment.
Okay, so you hit on something light they like. Do they then say, go write the script. No.
What they would say then is come back with a sort of outline of what that would mean for each of the other characters. Like when I pitched Lane thinks the Korean manicurists for talking about her behind her back in Korean, and they liked that idea, then it's like, go back and try to think of George's story, a Kramer story, and a Jerry story. So you would work on that and once they felt that you had something workable there, then you would go off and write a draft.
Okay. Seinfeld had a very specific but not conventional layout with the A and the B story and things usually coming together when you went to write the first script, did it already have that structure?
I think, following what you kind of outlined of what was going to happen in each scene. Yeah, that kind of structure was there. But I think it's very important for me to say we're looking at Seinfeld why it was also such a learning experience for me, and I can speak for every other writer there is. I would turn in a draft as other writers would. Then Larry and Jerry would do their pass on the draft, and so every Seinfeld that you see, you're seeing their version
of whoever's draft that was. So I learned a lot seeing what they kept of my drafts, what they threw out of my drafts, what they changed of my drafts. So their presence is really all over the show.
Yeah, and to what degree with Seinfeld was their conventional writer room stuff where you're sitting there with a script and people are throwing out jokes and you're saying no, and you're building from that.
Well, Seinfeld was a different show in terms of how it worked, in terms of it was more kind of individual study sort of model in that you worked one on one with Larry and Jerry with your idea, with your script, with your outlines, all that kind of thing. They would and then we'd all meet for lunch. We'd all eat lunch in the office, and that was when
all the writers were together. I mean, they would occasionally call us together if they were looking for a certain joke or a certain idea for somebody's joke, But that was more the exception than the way that it worked there. I mean, when I went on to write for the Larry Sanders Show, that's where I experienced the classic writer's room of a sitcom, where pretty much every day you're starting and finishing all in a conference room, sitting around a table and coming up with ideas, maybe even you
know what is called gang writing a script. They just put it up on a monitor and we all kind of write it together. I actually like writing like that, and that's more classic writers whom I actually enjoy that style now more, and when I've had a show, that is the style that I like to use. And it's also the way the thing that I was talking about at the beginning of our conversation about I love being with funny people. It just, you know, so much so that I kind of call it a profession. You know.
To me, it's like a thank God it's Monday kind of thing because I have so much of a good time in the writer's room that opposed to like maybe going to a party on the weekend or some you know, snore event. It's like that's my favorite spot.
Okay, the heat of the writer's room. You know, a Jewish family, you tend not to hold back. Somebody comes up and say that's a terrible idea, and you march forward and everybody you know the bruise is no one sits there says, how dare you say that to me? Okay, yeah, in the heat of the writer's room, in the style you're talking about with Larry Sanders, does anything go or do you have to be aware of the politics in your choice of words?
I don't think so. I think any good writer has learned way back when you got to go for broke, because sometimes the thing that you think, oh, everybody, this is, this is so out of left field. This is such a wild idea and if they don't like it, I'm going to be laughed out of the room. Turns out to be the best idea that anybody's ever heard. So you have to know you got to go for broke, and somebody got on, you know, the head writer going, boy, no,
that's a terrible idea. You just you really have to have a teflon back to be in a writer's room because there will be so many ideas that are not good. But you know that one that flies so many times has been me, I don't know if I should say this one, and it turns out to be incredible.
Let's go back to Seinfeld for a minute. So I knew Jerry from his late night appearance is his famous checkout line routine. So I'm watching from the very beginning. Okay, Ultimately the show becomes a gigantic kit. Jerry's on camera, Larry puts out this special that is really uneven as charitable, but then he has krubed your enthusiasm and all of a sudden, wait a second, that was more his show. Let me put it this way, what did Jerry bring to the show other than being on camera?
No, No, Jerry brought you know. It's really important for people to know and remember that every Seinfeld they see it. Yeah, yeah, Larry David, but Jerry is in there. They were partners
to the end. I mean, you'll appreciate this analogy. I think as a music person, Bob, but I really compare their their comedic partnership as Lennon and McCartney, Larry David being, of course the more Lenin of the twosome, the more cynical, you know, the unfriendly maybe, and Jerry being the pop light sensibility of a McCartney and together, I think it fused this beautiful partnership and show. So yeah, don't count out Jerry for a second, for.
Sure, Okay, when you worked on Curb, which legendarily was builled as improvisational because Larry didn't want to work that hard, what was it like working on Curbs opposed to Seinfeld?
Well, and I don't know about that. I don't think it was that Larry didn't want to have to work too hard. I think what he felt was he had such an incredible ensemble of comedy players around him that he knew he was going to get the best of that show, letting these people do their thing, which it did. You know, what was funny about Curb was I went from Hacks over the Curb. Hacks. The writer's room was all on Zoom, so you were not together with people.
You were together with people virtually. But I think, as people can tell, you can't write a good show on Zoom, and Hacks is the proof. But then once the writer's room is over, the writers are not on set, the three show writers are on set, and the writer's room
is gone. So when I went from that, then I went over to Curb, and Curb my whole job, which was this is my favorite of everything, is I had pitched show ideas earlier to them, some of which they took But then my job when I went over there is I was just there when they shoot it, and it was just me and a couple other writers. You're just there for an idea or a line for someone, or is mostly lines, like we need a line for this, we need lines for that, because when you improv sometimes
it's not a script. Something isn't working or you need a better line. And then you sit on set and you just come up with lines and ideas while you're shooting it. And to be there while Curb was shooting was amazing and to watch the synergy of these you know, so many times when I worked there, I thought, Gee, the next show that you know, I'm lucky to have where I'm the executive user, maybe I should let people
just improv and have an outline of what happens. Let them improv, and then you see quickly it's only you know, the show was twenty five years. They had a rhythm and a comfort with each other that that kind of improvisation, you know, was unique to that show. You can't kind of throw people in there and hope they'll come up with a brilliant show. That was Curb's genius.
So if I saw a script of curb before they shot it. What would it look like? How fleshed out was it?
Well, it was they worked off a very detailed outline. It would probably be about twelve pages of what the scene was, who was in it, and kind of what needs to happen in that scene, and also some lines potential lines for it. But you'd be holding an outline usually, like I said, about twelve pages.
Okay. Gary Shandling, who got great inside Press, died before his time. Never wanted to be a permanent late show host. What was Gary's special sauce?
Oh? Gary? I mean I still miss him to this day. Just as a sidebar, so interesting to me. He came to my wedding to my wife Lori, which was ten years ago in December, and for some strange reason, after the ceremony, beginning the reception, we talked to Gary, my wife and I. It had to be at least twenty five minutes. And you know, when you're getting married, you're mixing and you're talking to people for two seconds here and there and blah blah blah. We must have talked
for twenty five minutes. And then that following March she passed away unexpectedly and I just I feel so grateful that that weird thing that happened at the wedding of talking to him the most of any guests that that happened before he passed. But anyway, what was amazing about Gary was not only comedically spot on, you know, had that thing that Larry David has that Jerry has. He knew when he had agreed since of scene structure, kind
of like a director of a play. When I worked there, he could be in a scene, he could be watching a scene and know when something was not working or working well, or need to be changed slightly. His sense of story and scene structure was really something to behold, and I think that was his special sauce. He also was, I think, like most great comedians who become stars, so likable. I mean, he was so neurotic, you know, his persona, but I think it was so endearing that people really
latched onto his neuroses and him. But I really feel like with his passing, we just lost such a great comedic voice.
Okay, you know, there's been a number of controversies in comedy. When this is released, there may be a few more on the EVB in the rear view mirror. What is your position on this first threshold is you say, I don't want to weigh in Republicans laugh too. We have the situation in ri Odd, we have the situation with Jimmy Kimmel Colbert before is your first major thing? I want to stay out and what does it take for you to take a stand?
I don't. I don't really like to get into it because I feel like, what's what's out there, what's going on, is beyond my control. I mean, obviously Jimmy Kimmel, I mean I don't know anybody personally who could say, oh, yeah, he should have been taken off the air. I mean, free speech is incredibly important, and he had every right to say what he wanted to say about the situation. I'm not the only person that's going to say it wasn't.
I don't think it was that controversial it was. I think they lit on something that they thought was a bigger thing than it was. But more importantly than that, it's a free speech issue and that's important. Yeah. But and I sent Jimmy an email that I congratulated him on his comeback to the show and his monologue that night. I thought it was brilliant. But I don't like to get into political things because you know, social media, Bob, I call it the yentification of the world.
Right, everybody's got good description.
Yeah, And I don't know. I don't want to be a part of it. I just don't. I mean, look, I'm happy that what happened with Jimmy Kimmel, that he got support and he's back on the air. I think that was important. I think we'd be in a very difficuent different situation if he was permanently taken off the air. I think that would be a signal an even scarier time that we're maybe living in now. But yeah, I don't know. I don't like to get into it.
Well, let's go a different direction. If you wanted to know which way the wind blew. In the late sixties and early seventies, you listened to a record. FM radio was the heartbeat of America. We live in a world now where the guy who runs Ukraine is literally a comedian, and the power of comedians has never been greater. To what degree can comedy change the mindset of the population.
I think it has a great, great power to do that, you know, I know he's a comedian, but it's I don't I'd like to see his act, you know, uh, I don't know. I know you say he's a comedian, but he doesn't really use his comedy right to political effect. But I know how important a comedy is, and you know this regard. I also know that if you're a political comedian, now, half the audience is going to like it, and half the audience isn't. But people do what That's
why I stay at a poll in my act. You know, A great compliment that I feel like I get now is you know I was happy to just laugh for as long as you were on and not think about what's happening in the world in politics, and that that compliment resonates with me. You know, I'm happy about that. But comedy is still important. It will always be important. It can change some people's minds. It cannot change people's minds, and I think every comedian who's a political comedian knows that.
But just having that voice is really what we have to protect.
Okay. I have a friend who says all the great songs are written in collaboration. I don't happen to agree, But if you're writing for yourself, if you're writing for a show, there are inherently other people there. But if you're writing for yourself, do you doing it solo is the best way? Or do you want to be able to bounce it off somebody?
Oh you mean writing a TV show?
No, writing like stand up stand up joke?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I even with my stand up. Well, first of all, for a TV show, bouncing it off other people is absolutely a must, because especially the you know, the beauty of a writer's room is somebody will have a good idea, somebody else will take it to the next level, somebody else does that, and then bam, the last person has the best incarnation of whatever that thought or joke was. So there is this. It's kind of magic to me, and I love that about a writer's room.
So for a TV show, absolutely, But even for my stand up I will get together with a friend or two and say this is what I'm working on. What do you think of this punchline? What do you think of this tag to the joke? And sometimes they'll, you know, we'll give each other. They'll do that, you know, with me with their material, and it's always fun to bounce things off somebody.
Okay, going back to the Oscars, Can you ever have a victory at the Oscars? The Oscars are hosted and pretty much all the time the critics come down on the host. You know, you have people who bring in their own writers room lettermen. Did it got some of the worst reviews ever. Bob Hope used to do it, but it was bland. Is it something that you can never achieve or is there a holy grail such an everyone? Even Chris Rock did it and didn't completely succeed. Can anybody succeed at that gig?
Oh? Absolutely? I mean look at the reception then Conang got this past year.
Did you work on that show?
I did? I did, and I think it raised him unlike many other hosts, raised him to an even higher level hosting the show because so many comedians, I think that job is like there's no upside to hosting mak Oscars. I think with Conan and with Jimmy Kimmel even it's a big upside because I think they did so well doing it well. Conan's coming back this year that I think it's enhanced their comedicness to people.
And circling back to the book, So this book about writing speeches, giving speeches. Yes, you couldn't write scripts because his union was on strike. Who came up with this specific idea for.
A book, Well, my partner Rick Mitchell and I because sitting there and talking about these bad speeches that we witnessed and were horrified at, it just became you know, Bob's stand up is like a speech every night. It is you have to have a good start, and you know what your middle is going to be, and you have to wrap it up in a certain way that wraps the whole thing up. And that's what a good
speech is. I mean, the biggest piece of advice we given our speech book that I think is very consoling to people right off the bat, besides the fact of what you mentioned that it's small, it's handy, it's not threatening when people pick it up. It's not like a tone like an Encyclopedia Britannica that you pick up. It's something that you know you can digest. But anyway, the tick that we give is keep it five minutes and under.
I mean, what a simple piece of advice that is that needed to be in a book because most people don't know that. How many times have you gone to event the person goes on and on, they think, oh, I love this pruson so much. So more is more. There's a reason more is more did not become the same. Also, not realizing I just went to a memorial this happened, you keep it five minutes an under because many other
people are speaking and people don't realize that. So we just felt like having a whole book of duh things for people when they write a speech. What's important and what's nice is I'm getting feedback from people on Amazon or whatever. I read every review. It's like this book really helped me. I was afraid to write a speech. It wasn't that hard, and then when I did it, I got some nice feedback. And that's really all we
wanted from the book. The other thing, Bob, is we looked at, of course, before we pitched this, publishers other books on the subject, and there are subjects about writing a speech and if you about writing a funny speech, but they're written by Thornton, how Max you know people you've never heard of. We are two bona fide Emmy winning writers. So we feel like we can take a platform, excuse me, in telling people, giving them an idea of what to do.
Well, I guess what I'm really asking. Were you sitting riffing with your partner and say, whoa, there's a book here, or were you saying we can't work we should write a book. Oh this is an idea.
Yeah, No, it wasn't the latter. It was certainly the former. I mean, yeah, I never kind of come up with something, well, what the hell will do this? You know, it really was a nice timing of things that as buddies just meeting for coffee, Hey, I just went to this event. Yeah I went to one too, and just sitting there thinking, you know, normal people need this advice, let's do that. And it was convenient that it was during you know, I told you so early on in our marathon discussion,
which I am adjoining. You know, being creative makes me feel alive. And I have a project and to pitch this to publishers and see if somebody buys it, and deciding between the people that were interested that is I can't tell you what a thrill it gives me. And to be doing it at my age and this many years in show business to still be taken seriously and embraced that way is it's just you know a wonderful part, a big part of my life.
Okay, you read a book like this, you know you can't work writing scripts and it's fun. Can you make any money?
Well, you know, book writing. It's really the luck of the draw if you kind of hit it or you don't, but you know what you can. We had to reach a certain number of books sold where we're starting, where we can start to earn a profit. And I believe that in seven months we are very close to the profit margin, which I am looking forward to. Yes, yes, you can make some money if your book hits. And what's nice is it's connecting with people and I'm happy about that. We're happy about that.
And is there another book cooking on a burner?
I don't have one yet. No. If you have some ideas, Bob, if you have coffee with a friend and you both experienced something, pass it along to me and maybe we can make a book out of it. Now I'm gonna really. When I have a book, I really like to sit with it a while. Because I bring it to my speaking events, to my stand up events. I do some things for gratis, but then I say, hey, can you buy can you buy a book for everybody who's intending. You know, my wife teases me that I'm Wilma Loweman,
that I'm out there every day selling my wares. So you know, I'll give it it's best shop, but you know it, I might just come out there with one other, another idea, because you know what my jam is, Bob. I love doing what I do and thinking and producing seeing these things into action. That is really a high.
Okay, you got invited to do comedy going on at nine thirty, you said no, I go to bed at ten. I didn't say no to use the cliche. Are you gonna die on stage? Or at some point you'm gonna put your keyboard away and say I'm done.
Well, I think at a certain point that won't be up to me. Look, I am very lucky that is a TV writer turning seventy next year. Then I'm still working. I really don't know many other writers who are my age and who are around. I mean, I have a lot of women who turned fifty and come to me and go I'm starting to feel I'm getting aged out. You know, I don't know what to do, and so I feel very lucky that I'm still doing it. It's
just funny. I remember working on the show The Naked Truth, and they hired an older writer to come in because it needed some help, a guy I think who had worked on Dick Van Dyke. I don't remember his name, and I remember thinking and the writers are like, who's this old guy? Who's that? You know it's going to happen to me at a certain point, I hope not. But am I going to be doing this at eighty? I don't think so. I don't know. You know, I get hired for the Oscars a lot because the head
writer who's brilliant, a guy named John Max. You know, he's my generation, and I'm lucky that he's hired me so many times. But what happens when John Max is a working anymore? Am I going to get hired? I don't know. I don't think so. So I now I do have to plan for, you know, an escape patch at some point. I'm just happy it's not now, because
I'm loving what I'm doing. I'm telling you, especially with this news about YouTube special that I can do and put on up there, it's like re energize me, like I cannot even begin to tell you pop, So look out next time. I talk to you. It'll be promoting my special I swear to.
God, well, Carol, I'm gonna be looking out for it. I'm gonna look for cut up clips on social media. Everything the younger generation loves and the older generation derides. I want to thank you so much for taking this time with my audience. Great to meet you face to face. Is someone I followed forever. I was thrilled that you reached out. Seriously. Yes, it was great.
Seriously, man, let me you know, give the compliment back to you. I approached you because I love your take on so many things. I think someone of our generation and that have such a clear and interesting voice. I just, you know, read your newsletter every day, and yeah, I approached you because I love what you do. So you know, keep doing what you're doing because it's.
Okay. Thanks so much until next time. This is Bob left six