Brinsley Schwarz

different about it from what came before? I was well so musically I'd say that the biggest difference between the two things was, Hey, you get into words like honest um, but pub rock was down to earth, just playing songs. And there were no no long sometimes tedious guitar solos or keyboard silos or drum solos. He never saw a drub solo in a pub, so so much more focused

on the songs and the and the excitement. The level of energy was was higher, The audience was really close that they could they could get the vibe and see what was going on, much better than bigger bands that played in big places and It also provided a place for bands that were never going to be able to play get up to playing in in big places, somewhere to play, and eventually some of them did get up to play in big places. So well, let's set the scene,

let's put it in context. When did pub rock begin? Well, so it depends when you when you think it begun. Um Eggs Over Easy with the band the first band that any of us saw playing in a in a pub. They were American from San Francisco area, I believe Um. We saw that we we were fed up and playing in bigger places, mostly colleges, and the idea of playing with an audience in front of you, not having to play your set of album songs, you could play whatever

you wanted appealed. So in the timeline we saw Eggs Over Easy. Um. Two weeks later, Oh Dave Robinson, our manager, and myself went around pubs in London trying to persuade landlords that would be a really good idea to have

us play in the pub. A lot of them didn't didn't get it, but they did get that we would play for nothing until until they were making enough money to be able to pay us, which so they liked that idea, and a few weeks later we were we started playing in pubs and pretty pretty soon and it went down really well. It's pretty soon there were as many people outside as there were inside. It was summer, so it was a good time of year to be

doing it. And pretty soon other other bands joined in, got gigs in some of the pubs, and I would say, but that that's when it became pub rock. Well that's when, roughly when the press took notice and labeled it pub rock. Okay, this would be what year for what year did you start playing the pubs? Yeah, I would say seventy summer of seventy one. Okay, So for those of us who are not English, this is in London or did it spread throughout the nation? It was it was mostly in London,

uh and closely around London. But yeah, i'd say it was in London. Okay, So we don't have pubs in the US. How large would these pubs be? How many people could be there when you performed? Um? Probably maybe the larger ones could hold hundred fifty two hundred people. There was a place, a pub called the Kensington, which was had a large mainly road but large paving part outside.

And I definitely remember going out one very hot summer evening and that that section of that square being packed of people with people and the inside but so in or maybe four hundred people, but mainly I'd stay between hundred two hundred like your it's just the same thing. And that's states like bars, larger what you called larger bars, okay. And how many of these bars were there? How many were in the circuit so to speak, um, ten a dozen so not many, no, no, not not a lot

to know. Okay, So when you start playing the pubs, do you how frequently do you play? And do you play at the same pub or different pubs? We we played in maybe four to six different pubs and once a week or once a fortnight. So we were you know, we were playing just an ordinary amount, but always mostly

in pubs. And once you established you could generate a crowd, how much revenue could you generate, um, fifty per person on the door, maybe a hundred pounds, two hundred pounds, not a lot of money, okay, it's like it's like it is now. We don't do this for the money. We do it because it's fun. That's that's how it how it was. We weren't really looking for anything else. We just wanted to play. Okay, so Dave Robinson Jermana joing.

At this point the act is called Brinsley Schwartz. Do you say Schwarz with the te or without the tea? Now we say it with the T, but it's it rhymes with hearts. It's Prinsley Schwartz, not princely Schwartz. One more time, I gotta how do you pronounce it? Schwartz? Swats so it rhymes with huts. I got it. I'm trying to you know, It's like in the UK, Ray it's Ray Davis, and here it's Ray Davies. But we'll

soldier forward. So who's who's in the man Brinsley Schwartz at this point myself, Nickla, Bob Andrews, Billy Rankin in gone. So that's the five of us. Okay, let's let's go back a little bit further when okay, where do you grow up? Sorry? Where did I grow up? Yeah? Mostly in a place called Tunbridge Wells, which is in Kent, or or in villages around. We moved quite a lot, but never a long way. So around Tumbridge Wells yeah, the south southeast corner. How far from London thirty five?

And did you go into London a lot or were you living like in the country mentally? Um M, well, yeah, we went into into London a lot. By the time pub Rockets started we were living as a band together in a house in a place called Northward, which was northwest London. So as the as the debacle in nine seventy started, we all moved into London and lived pretty much in London. Okay, so let's go back. You're moving around. Why are you moving around as a family so much?

My parents moved along. We we were we were a house to do a rothers. They bought houses, we fixed them up in the holidays. After a couple of years we dined again. And was that Was that their main means of employment or did the outside jobs? Now? My my father was a school teacher in a in a private school, which is the opposite to yours. You would call it a public school. Yes, And how many kids in the family just too then? Which were you the older,

the younger, the older? Whatever happened with the younger? Um, she got married and moved away. She's she's now living in Scotland with a second husband. Okay, so you're growing up, when do you get exposed to music and excited about music? I think pre pre Elvis, I can remember, so I have to dig dig into memories. I remember a record called Green Door, which I have no idea Who's who's saying that Frankie, Frankie somebody, Frankie Vaughn maybe um. And that that's the first record that I I said I

heard as a record. But pretty soon after that I was listening to Elvis Presley and then all of the late fifties and early sixties music. And the real turning point was when I heard a tune called Patche which was performed by a band called the show Days m And that is why why I wanted to be a guitar player. Okay, so how did you hear these records on the radio? Did you buy the records on the radio?

Mostly historically we've learned that radio was very controlled in the UK with the BBC, and people would listen to Radio Luxembourg Radio Caroline, what was your experience that well, that Radio Luxembourg Radio carry on a bit later later than this, but yes, it most most radio was by the BBC, and they were very strict um rules about

what could be played and what couldn't be played. And it wasn't until the pirate radio stations started up that we started to hear music from from the from more from the States um that we hadn't had a chance to to hear in England. Now, Liverpool was a dark city and they say that the sailors came in with blues records and that influenced the scene. There was that only in Liverpool. Was it also where you were or in the Kent area It wasn't. It wasn't in the

Kent area. The top forty was probably in stock in the late local record store. Um it was. It was very very young and and unworldly or experiences at that time. It was a long time before I heard of blues record. I don't remember which the first had a friend and older friend who there was a guitar player who who got me around to his place one day said listened to this and put on John mel Male Blues Breaker album and that was probably the first time I heard

a blues record. And and I remember I remember listening to Albert king In in the local records store. You could go into a booze. That happened in the States too. You could get into a booth and if there was no one in the store, they just played the record for you. And so I used to do that. Um okay, so you hear you hear apache tell me about picking up an instrument and playing. Um. I hustled my parents. They gave me a classical guitar for my birthday and

I just wanted to play a patty. I learned that by myself without and they just from the tune figured out some chords. And I've got a book called Five Common Chords, which was which was a bad book to get because it showed you every chord in all of its inversions, and so every chord was a different poet in your head, but really they were all the same,

just moved up and down the fingerboard. It was an actually much easier thing to learn to play guitar than a lot of other instruments, which I tried to play later on. And if you started with the book, do you know how to read music? No? So I did younger at school. I think I got to grade four piano, Grade four it's called in this country. So I could read music, but once I started playing guitar, I found that I could I knew what was coming next and where it was quicker than I could read it off

the of the page. So I ended up really learning everything by ear. So you never took a lesson. Much later on I took I did some lessons when when some guitar dam is opened up in London that would have been in the in the eighties, I guess and I went to some of that. And what were you learning to learn and searching to learn and what did you actually learn? Um? I guess I was searching to learn steely Den chords and parts. I did learn the solo to here's a memory stuff. Uh, well it's a

major Larry Carlton solo on a on the steely Den charm. So, um, when do you get an electric guitar? Um? Well, this is where helping my father was with the doing up the house was. I got a shilling a day that's ten cents maybe maybe it's about ten twelve cents um for helping, for which I had to do things like crawl under the floorboards to pull the electricity cables through. Do you know that spiders are white and alive? When they're underneath floorboards. Um. And I got enough money to

buy a an electric guitar. But when I went to to buy one, I thought I knew what it was that I wanted. My eye settled on something different, and my parents very kindly paid difference for me. So I got a half decent electric guitar, which was what it was called a Oftener color Rama. It was red and looked like the guitar that Hank Martin as the Shadows used, and that was good enough for me. And what about

an amplifier? Yeah, I just got a little one and I it had vowels in it, but I didn't really know what that meant and important it was until much later later on. Okay, So you're playing and at this point your hold okay, and at what point do you say, hey, I want to play with others? And what happens? Um? When I when I left school, I left school at eighteen, Um, I didn't want to go to university, although I had

a place. I wanted to be a guitar player. What before we get there, you never played in a group or anything in high school or you know whatever, your secondary school. Yeah, okay, in my so this is part of part of my time that I don't think about too much. I went to a boarding school when I was fourteen and we had a band. We used to sneak out underneath play underneath the stage in the hall in the middle of the night. Um. There were six

of us. We were sounds, four plus two. We didn't really know what we were doing, but it was a lot of fun and I guess part of it was sneaking out at night in the middle of the night to smoke cigarettes, drink cider and play underneath the hall. But we did go. Nicklay's father was an r af UM commander and in Germany and we went to uh We went there to play for the for the kids, and we were all fifteen sixteen, so I think we

played five shows. We traveled in my My parents had a sleeper bus and yeah, we all piled in with it to amplifiers and a snare drum. I went and played. That was the only time that I had played before leaving school. And do you remember what the material was? Yeah, any rock and roll song that we could sing, one of us who could sing could put together. Although we did we played a lot of Beatles. I remember playing you really got me and thinking, well this is fabulous.

But yeah, that kind of said what we would call pop music in England. Okay, did music bring it together with Nick Low? Or were you friends before that and music brought us to get together? We were two years apart in school and you didn't mess with people two years apart. So how did you actually cook up with Nick? I think we're people were talking one day and we all ended up with in the in the room under the stage, in the in the hall, and that's that's

kind of how it started. It was he always a bass player or did that just you know we needed a bass player in the band. No, it wasn't. I think he had a base by the time we went and played in Germany. But but before before then he had a had along I think probably a bit of a clothes line, like plastic lines um sort of broomstick and a packing case and and just plucked at it. We were all just whatever we had. We just wanted to do be in this and and so we did

what we could. The Beatles hit in sixty two. What was it like when the Beatles hit you were still in secondary school? It was m hm, it was it was everything that was wildly exciting. Um, it was all people would talk about. The the anticipation for the next single was was was massive? Um, yeah, it was. It was a turning point for the as it turned out, for the world. I would say, right, but you were a couple of years ahead of us in the UK and all these other acts that we consider to be

the British invasion in the US. You know, the ones from Liverpool and then you have the Kinks. What was it like having that scene in the UK? Um, yeah, it was just it was just it was it was almost everything that we thought about that I guess. I guess we thought about football as as well and girls, but otherwise it was it was the music. It's what everybody was interested in. All the hangouts in record stores and well, right, I was never allowed to go to a coffee shop, but I guess a coffee bar as

they were called. Then that's what we talked about. That overtook movies and things like that as the main event. It was wildly exciting. Okay, you graduate from what we call high school, you decide you don't want to go to college. Your father is a teacher, what does he have to say about that? He's not happy. Neither of my parents are happy, but they could see that it was what I wanted to do, and they came up with an offer that they would take care of me

vie if I got any money. I contributed part of it to the running of the household and I had a year and if I didn't it didn't succeed. After a year, then I was either out of out of my own or UM gone toinun of city. So they looked after me for a for a year, probably longer in the end. So what happened in that year? In that year somebody somebody knocked on the door or or

telephoned me. I think they knocked on the door or either that or somebody knew my mother UM, and a word got sent down a line somewhere, and this guy whose name was Dave Cottam turned up and said, I hear you play guitar and can sing. Do you want to be in a band, to which I said yes. So that band came known as three as a Crowd and which later turned into Cypington Lodge and we eventually made singles for Am I or Parlophone UM. And that that was. That was the beginning of what I would

call a career. Wh Okay, how long after we've calls you are you making records for EM? I must must be a year, a year, a year and a half something like that. A long time and you're still living at home? What are you? You know? What are you living on? Financially? Very little? Hardly anything at all? Really? So how does the band get a deal with the m I we h A guy asked to manage us? Saw us playing somewhere, asked the manager as we said, okay,

and he got he got the deal. Um, I think they paid for us to do a couple of demos and and he carted those around the record labels and we ended up getting a deal for five singles, which we ended up doing. So what happened with kippington Um? We made? We made five singles? People change, We became an left so that the drama who was the last person to leave, he left and week that's where we got when we got Billy ranking in Um the bass player whose band it was in the start, he left

because he wanted to play soul music and we didn't. UM. That's when Nick joined UH and then and then we decided we needed an organ player, and that's where Barry Landerman came, who was at the same school as Nick and myself. So basically I phoned around people that I've been at school with and said you want to join a band? And people did and so um and then in the end Barry left. He went and played with a real pop group called Vanity Fair and and then

we had we advertised and found Bob Andrews. Okay, what was Nick doing? We've were you called them? I have no I have no idea, but see, obviously nothing that important because he just jumped at the chance and and came down. Okay, when is it goal? From Kippington Lane to Brindsley s Keypington Lodge that there was Commington Lodge somewhere somewhere in the middle of that appears, so the four and after so I guess sometime in sixty six days or sixty nine um, and yeah, they showed the

other three chose the name. Okay, okay, let's stop. The name ends up being your name, Brinsley Shot, how does that happen? We agreed that that Keypington Lodge was not a good name and that we should leave that behind and all that it had meant um, and we were going to write down or suggested names, get together and

pick them one at a time and choose one. Uh. And when that was due to happen on the Sunday, I think, And when I turned up at Nick and Bob's flat, they said, no, need to do that, We've chosen already and they told me and I thought, oh no, that's not pretty good, and but they said they were adamant. So that's how I happen. Well, there's a benefit to the p and being your name. And I'm sure all this all this time later because of the recognition, you're

probably happy. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't think about it much after that, you know, I just complained and then said, yeah, okay, let's do that. Okay, it's keeping in livee. You made the five records for you, am I. The band keeps morphing now, as Brinsley shots what happens then? Um, we saw an adverse in the Melody Maker, which was the main music magazine of the time, UM, advertising for a band that had their own equipment and wrote songs. And we did have our own equipment and we did write songs.

So we called up the person turned up to Dave Robinson who came down to Tombridge Wells and saw us play. We went to for a few meals, mostly Indian meals with him. He told lots of great stories about stuff and we agreed to let him manage us. In reality, what did he have going on when he was courting you? Um, he didn't have very much going on. He was his company, which was just him basically was involved with a small group of companies of small companies who were involved in

the payment business. Although Forbidden Fruit who are clothes story

up in London, it was one of them. There was a little film film company um and an album cover designer Barney Bubbles, who went on to do quite a lot and that was overseen by by this money man and so Apart from wowing us with stories about about Hendricks and touring and various other things, his idea was for us to play and and move up the ladder, play the right gigs and trying to move up up the ladder, playing bigger places and on tours with people

with big bands. Okay, tell me about Dave Robinson. Weltimately goes on to form Stiff Records and he continues to be a manager. What was he like Was he a force of nature? Was he lucky? Was he was a force of nature? Definitely? Did? Do you know the story of how he got us at the gig, at the film or east? No? But are we jumping ahead? I know that, I mean, I want to hear you tell the story. But let's go a little bit slower. So you're playing, You're playing around, the band has your name.

What ultimately happens UM It comes to a point where we realized that, uh, it's just not going to go anywhere unless we do something that we do something out of the ordinary or something big enough to get the attention of any kind of record label. It was not very easy to get on even if you had a manager, it was not easy to get to get on UM. So we decided that we'd go the route of trying

to to do something that would catch attention. And the question was put to the other member the other companies that were involved in the in the group of companies, and they came up with some pretty bizarre ideas, but the one that stuck was that we would we would. It's like a circle that you have to close all of the all of the things at the same time.

So we would get a major gig in the United States, we could get a record company and a songwriting deal so that we could pay for transporting press music press from around the world to see us play at at whatever gig it was. So we dave I did. Had to get the gig on a promise, had to get the called company on a promise, and so on and close the wall at the same pretty much at the same time, which he which he did. Um, and that's what we were set about doing. Well, that's what he

set about doing. So how did it play out? Um? Well? So now now is there right to tell the story about how he got us the gig? Friday afternoon in London, he calls up and hearing names again, he's list with names. Who was it that owned or ran ah those two gigs on the West coast of Bill Graham? Bill Graham. So he calls up Bill Graham's office, gets to speak to Bill. Bill Graham says, I have a I have a band, we have a we have a record deal, and we want to fly the world's press to come

and see the band playing at the film Warriors. Bill Graham thinks that I got a crazy guy on the phone and says to Dave, Okay, send me the tape and I'll see what we can do, and puts the phone down and forgets all about us Dave. Dave gets books a flight to San Francisco. I guess he was. He was in And on Monday morning, when Bill Graham comes into his office, David sitting in his office with the tape. Um Bill Graham says, hello, who are you? What can I do? Okay? So I called you on Friday.

I've got a band, We've got a record deal. We want to fly the world's press to see them play at the film War East. And I brought the tape. You asked for the tape. Here it is. Bill gram said, it's okay, I don't need the tape. You've got the game. And that's how That's how Dave Romson did stuff. He was a force of nature. You didn't say no, go away at that point. Um so so yes, so we got the gig, and I do want the whole story. It goes on forever, okay. So I can only set

it from my my point of view. I know there's lots of stuff out there that there's been a book or books written. I haven't read very much of any of them. Um, you know I was, I was there. Really the book kind of boring. Um, So Dave tired start at the beginning for the press. Here he got all the pressed together. UM, who thought should come and and rented a plane from air lingus. He was irish, so maybe he had a few strings to pull. Um, which was supposed to take the press from heath Row

to Kennedy. Um. He sorted out visa applications. We had an exchange band. In those days, the musicians unions of both countries had to agree before any visa could be granted, so our musicians you had to to vet us and make sure that there was another band from the States coming to take our place, and vice versa. The band that was chosen was Love, and I'm going to forget the guy's name again. Who was the singer in Love? Arthur?

He developed laryngoitus a few days before the visas were supposed to be done, so they're canceled the tour, which meant that we didn't have an exchange band, which meant we couldn't get visas. And we found this out less than a week before we well actually less than a less than two days before we were supposed to golf

and go to New York. In New York, we were supposed to have three days rehearsal at the former East with with our requested gear, some of our own, but some hired our requested gear, and we were supposed to what we did buy or arrange for the front three rows to be available for our press guests. The film or East had had a deal where you could only use cameras in the building up until a certain time, and that was agreed upon so that our drummer, Billy

he was. He had an American and an English passport, so he didn't have a problem. He got his visa and on the Tuesday morning before we were supposed to play, he flew to to the States, um as I remember it. When we eventually managed to meet up again, he told us that he had a limousine, came up from the airport, drove into a hotel in Manhattan and settled him into

his room. The driver gave him his room number and said, I'm I'm for you at any time, day or night you want to go somewhere, you want to do something, just give me a call and I'll be there in ten minutes. So Billy says great because his room, tries to relax as Jed lagged a bit freaked out because he's by himself and where God knows where. He doesn't know where we are, but at this point and so he said in the after half an forty minutes and decides he's going to go out, so it calls up

the driver. The driver says, no problem, meet me outside the front in ten minutes. Billy goes down waiting. There's a guy standing along the pavement from him, also looks like he's waiting for something. A car pulls up, two guys jump out, run across to the guy that's standing there to billion nice hmendous stomach. Okay, this is this is not the good news for Billy goes back to his his room where he stays pretty much for the for the remaining three days until we turn up. So

that that was that's his story. Dave says to us, Okay, we've been refused visas. So we applied, but we're refused. Um And says we'll go to Canada. We'll go to Toronto and get visas there. They won't know that we've been turned down. Here, it'll be it'll be easy. So we get on the first flight to Toronto, check into a hotel, go down to the American Embassy and fill

in the forms for visas to the United States. And there's a question on the forms that says, have you ever been refused a visa to the United States from any country? So I think I got there first and said today, what do we do about this question? Dave? He says, just say no. So I said no, we all did that. We filled them inside them off, took them up to this guy who who was an all American. That's that's what I'll say about him. He took them. He didn't like us. We had long hair. And you know,

this was then. It's different from very different from now. Um. He took them and it was lunchtime. He said, come back after lunch and you're you know, you'll have your papers. So when we went back, we we got called the same guy. He said, you guys think I'm that we're crazy here. I've got a million dollar computer behind me that tells me that you were refused visas to the United States just a day ago in London. And we said yeah, mumblement, And he said and I so I

remember this, this is this is a quote. You guys want to go to the US of A. You got no chance, At which point he threw our papers at us and we left told between the legs and oh dear, what do we do now? So then we all went back to the hotel. We had a day visa to stay in Canada, so we didn't go out. But these chances are we run into a policeman and get caught for crossing the road where we shouldn't or something like that, and they'd want to see our papers, and then we

get extradited. So we stayed in the hotel while Dave went out with our record company are Canadian record company guy who was great, supplied all kinds of we said we needed were pretty much eight burgers and watched our trek. You m in the hotel and Dave was out trying UM. So I believe I believe a senator or someone high up handled the deal for us, got us waved through. And so on Friday, so the first gig, first set

was Friday evening at seven o'clock. So Friday, just before lunch, we turned up at the American Embassy, still in the forms say yes to the dread question and hand them in to the same guy who's not happy because he knows that he's got to pass us. Um and he

really doesn't like this now. Um. So at half past twelve he comes out from from the back and puts a pile of papers which looked very much like our three visa application forms with our passports on the on the counter in front of him, and then goes to lunch. He comes back about hot past one and calls us over and pushes the papers and visa to us without saying a word. We take them, say thank you very much, uh,

and and go. And in that hour a ground crew strike on the northeast coast in the United States is IS is announced and there are no flight to or from um. So we hire a private little plane five Caesar Cessna. I think it was flown by a Japanese Canadian who who was an agile flyer. I'll say he he threw the plane across the sky quite a lot. Um. I have a problem. I still have the same problem as when I go up in a plane and my ears pot they don't put, you know, the other way

around when I come down. So I came down. I can't here very much. Um, and they hurt. So this was I don't know what are their little planes fly up for eight thousand feet so they were popping both ways all the time. And by the time I got I got well on the way. We landed at Buffalo and we said, well, what's happening and he says, okay, passports. So we all got our passports out, our precious visas in them and hand them over. He said, no, I

don't need this. I just say, you're American businessmen going home. So we didn't need a visa. As it turns out there's a back door in to Toronto. Um. But so so then we took off and then we landed and I'm this is guesswork now, but I'd say around six o'clock, five thirties, six o'clock in some field. It was just a field. It didn't seem like an airport at all, but but we landed in it. There were there were four limousines, one each, one for day, one for the

three of us. My guy I got in. He was playing the best music I've I've ever heard, handed me the requirements and and drove drove me in in in the key with the others a little limousine cavalcade. Um. And the thing that struck me, the great thing that struck me was that the DJ playing the music, which was or you know, all of the good stuff Van Morrison, Motown Hendrick. Yeah, just really good, properly music. And he

didn't say where. The DJ didn't say a word until the half hour came, at which point he said, you just listened to and read out all the names, and then started playing the next half hours worth of music, which was in this country DJs, you know, they seem to think that the radio show is is their vehicle to stardom in some way. You know, it's not. It's not to do and play music for people. And they always talk over the outros where some of the quite

often some of the good stuff is sit sitting and refers. Anyway, I thought he it was great to hear that. Um. I think by the time we got in the dressing room it was quarter to seven, so we put on our stage clothes, got the guitars out and went and played the first sect, which was not very good, very disjointed. I'd hear anything, so I had to read people's lips to see where we were in the songs some of the time it was it was not good. The second show,

I don't know what I say. The next thing we did was we went to the to the dressing room and Nick went downstairs to to watch, and the rest of the stayed up there. And after ten minutes and so Nick turned up and said, Okay, you've all got to come down and watch this. This is astonishing. So we're all pretty shattered by this point, but we all went downstairs and watched Dan Morrison, who was blindingly good.

The band were blindingly good, and he was two. It was amazing, and that one show was enough where we saw him three more times, but that one show was enough change our minds about quite a lot of stuff in the what we wanted to be like, what we wanted to play, what was important to us um and then we played. We played the other shows. The the press had a dreadful time. The plane was late because it had problems taking off from Shannon Airport. It had to be fixed that he throw, and those days that

he throw if he went past the passport check. There was only one thing and that was a bar which when as the plane was four hours late, the press utilized AH quite a lot. Uh. Then they they took off and developed landing geve fault and had to land at Shannon Airport and the only thing there is a bar. They only do two types of drink or then they needed two jobs and that was guinness and an Irish whiskey.

And so when they finally managed to to make the journey and land late at this point at Kennedy, they were pretty wasted bunch. And because they were late, there was the plane was supposed to arrive sort of midday ish where the traffic wouldn't be too bad, but instead they arrived just as the as the Russia started it. So I think they were eighteen stretched limas to take them to the to the hotel potentially, but ended up to the to the gear uh and sitting police on motorbikes.

There was a lot of sirens and stuff going on UM and I think three of them crashed and didn't make it, and and the ones that did while half of them went back to the hotel because they were so shattered they just wanted to get to bed, so they never even came. By the time they arrived, the camera UM rule had had come into operation. No cameras after a certain time. They were after a certain time. Um, they'd opened the doors, so the public went in there

when no nobody's sitting in the front three rows. So the public just used went and sat in the front three roads. So when the press arrived, their place at the front had been had been taken. There were lots of camera men, so they were refused entry with their cameras. I know a couple of them had their cameras smashed with complained and and they who ever got in, I don't know how many. How many of them did get in, they just had to sit where they could find a seat.

And we knew that they were they were there, but we also knew that there had been a problem that had not been kept away from us, and so we went We went out not knowing what, you know, who was there, what was going to happen the front three rosere people or are they just people? And so we we saw they were just people. Um, And that was the worst of the four gigs that we played. We were stiff, I'm together and really really nervous. Uh. The

fourth gig was it was all over. So he really didn't care anymore and really played quite well, and and things things like occasional solos or or question answer bits in the in the music were applauded people. Some people whooped and kind of thing. And we used to do us a little country is song called rock and Roll Women, which is which was humorous um, and people laughed, so it went. It went much better. Um. When we got back, we spent another day and a half I think, taking

photographs and stuff, and Rumson turned up again. We went to is Riker's Island. Not allowed. Yeah, you're not allowed to go there. We didn't know you weren't allowed, and just drove on there and hung around and took pictures stuff, and the police came. And there's a great photo of that that Dave has of him with his with his one hand on his head talking to a New York

policeman who's got his hand on his gun. Um. And and you know they were going to haul us off until they found out the a that we were English and be that we were a pop band and so knew nothing of not being allowed on Writer's Island, and they said, hey, that's called you got a new records. So yeah, um, but that was Dave again. Dave put in a situation where his band were out to be arrested at gunpoint, um and turning it all good within

ten minutes. It was he was so good at that. Okay, So despite the debarcle, you end up making five records as Brimley Shots. Okay, how do you ultimately call it? Quit there and go to work with Graham Parker? Well, the two are not are not are not aligned in any way that their separate things. So the band Van quick Nick called it. And you know, I was quite

shocked at the time. Um, we'd lived together for nine on five years and done everything together and been through you know, what you could call hell and high water. There was no violence involved, but we've we've been through a lot of stuff. Um, And so I was, I was surprised our own reflection, and I guess I shouldn't have been really a bit. We've been treading water for a year or so. Um. So so we broke up.

We didn't have anything. We were living in a rented farmhouse and northwestern of London, and all we had was our gear and we had a monster p A. So we all took a piece and and went our our way. Um. I took my family or we tried. We tried squatting and got kicked out pretty quit and so I we ended up again to stay with my parents. When you say we are you married at this point? What was going on? Married with two children? And what do you

living on stuff from? We have a long time and we've had a place called the ox Fam Shop, which is second hand for charity. Sure, so you could buy you a pair of second hand jeans or a shirt for fifty cents. Well, you know, we lived, we lived together, and we had we had no money. All the money went on the band going forward, and there were three children living there and so some of the money went to make sure that they were okay, and the rest

of the time we just carried on. And you get to that point when in a band sometimes when what you're doing is so that you can do the next when you're earning money, so that you've got enough money to go and do the next gig or the next album or whatever. Um. Yeah, that's that's what we lived and we lived on nothing. Okay, So you go back to live with your you go back to live with your parents. The band is broken up, Yeah, okay, So how do you get yourself out of that hole. Um,

I didn't really to start with. Um Martin who who lived with us in the big house in Northward. Um he'd he'd he'd been, he'd roaded for us, uh and left and formed a band called Ducks to Lucks. He called me up and said, hey, you want to join the Ducks. So I said, yeah, great, So I joined Ducks Lucks, who are also a pup up and who are different from us in that we were very very laid back. We we played sometimes we played things purposefully slow because the groove was better there. We wanted to

be That's what we were looking for. The Ducks, on the other hand, played everything lightning fast. The drama was could say one, two, three, four faster than anyone I've ever I've ever heard. Um. So it was a bit of a bit of a culture shot me. But um and I think that was maybe two two and a half months. And then they broke up, which made me wonder what was the cause of something? But and then and then after after a bit, so I had I

had virtually nothing. I had one guitar, a saxophone, and so I played saxophone when my parents were out, and and guitar whenever I could and wrote a few songs. You know. It was just a musician living at home. And then there was another phone call, which was Dave Robinson who told me that he had he had a studio that he was learning how to use. He had a tube desk that had belonged to Decca Records, um.

And what his plan was was if any time he heard of or heard a singer, songwriter or a musician that he thought was worthwhile helping, he would invite them two make a demo recording in his studio. That way he would help them get a demo, he would help them maybe get advanced to a record deal of some description. And he'd learned how to uses his equipment. Is he'd be an engineer as well as record producing person. And say, he said, I have this guy, Um, he writes great songs.

I think you'd really like him. And so we're making a demo and and then he said Martin and Bob Bob Andrews from the from the Brens List and Martin Belmont from Ducks there with us with two guys from a reggae ban. And now I really can't remember that I've been thinking about this. I can't remember the name, but they've just broken up also, and that was Steve Golding and Andrew Bodner, and so this is this is how I remember I remember it. I'm not convinced that

everyone remembers this the same way. We've talked about it more recently and we end up saying no, no, no, that's not how it went at all. So so as far as I remember, we went, we we went and did these demo songs with Graham Parker. That that's who it was. It was Grand Parce. So we met Graham Parker. Martin might have met him earlier because he'd been Martin lived as an open anchor, which was the pub where Dave had his studio. Um, And as we were packing up,

I was thinking, oh, that went really well. That was really good. That was good, good fun. Everybody got on really well, So I said, I think. I said, well that was good fun, wasn't it. And everybody's stilar to me and said yeah, it was pretty good. So I said, anyone found see you getting together and just to play somewhere if we can find somewhere to play, anybody in fancy noodling on some songs? So and everyone said yes.

So a little bit after that Martin who knew the proprietors at Newland's Tavern which is in southeast London in Peckham Uh, and they said, yeah, they had like a function room, quite a large room as part of the pub. UM and they said we could use the function room in the afternoons where the pub was closed, with one proviser, and that is if we ever formed a band and did a gig, we do the first gig at their pub. So we thought that was a pretty fair deal. So

we took us. So we started playing together for the hell of it. Basically, we we played songs that we liked, played songs any song that anybody wanted to sing. We've played songs that we've written or we're trying to write. Um. And for two three months I would say it went.

It was really good. We started to we call on better and better all the time, and we were sort of approaching the time where we probably could have could have done a gig or some gigs had we wanted to, but it never anybody because we were doing it because we enjoyed it. UM. And then and then Day phoned up again he's got a record deal for Graham based upon the for three tracks, and the record company wanted us to back him on the album and on touring.

So not wanting to be a band and not want into tour or sign anything with anybody, we agreed that we play on the album and do one tour and that started at the end of and at the end of nineteen seventy six, we've had thirteen days off as far as I remember, its five or six tours of England, one of Europe, two of the United States, and made two albums and we're about to make the route what was what was going to be the Rumor's first solo album. Okay,

let's talk about Graham Parker for a minute. You know, he comes out. He's a phenomenon. Ironically, he's playing relatively straight ahead music when the new wave and stiff records and Elvis Costello becomes a thing. But the first two records are phenomenon. I'm one of the few people who enjoys listening to Heat Treatment more. Something I'm going through has got a reggae a feel soul in the Maelstrom. Did you feel that this was going to break big?

Did you? What was it like being inside the engine because it's got a lot more publicity, a lot more traction than Brinsley shots. Um. Yeah, so that the things that you when you're on the road, that the things about what's happening with the press and what's happening with sales and the rest of it. You they're they're told to you. But and they it's not that they go in one ear and come out the other. It's just

that you're occupied because you're playing all the time. And so if you've got any spare time to think about anything, you listen to somebody else's music. But there's not very much time to do that either, So I missed huge chunks of music. But as I was playing all the time, and so you you know, you get to hear that things are going well and then they don't for some reason, and you see people around you moving up. Um I don't.

I don't know if we made any potential hit records. Um, at the time, I would have known what a hit record was like. Um, I had I had two young daughters that they they turned me onto Adam and the Ants and a few bands from the early eighties. But yeah, it time goes past and you do stuff, and some of it works, some of it doesn't, and to me that's pretty much. But it is out of your hands. You can't influence it in in any or many ways.

So so you just go along and I guess if you don't like it enough, you you go somewhere else. But the overriding thing for me anyway, and I would say for everybody in the band, is that we all really like Graham Parker's songs and really enjoyed playing them. And that's for me. That's good enough. Sending a whole lot more money than I had been before of the Prinsidents. So were you making any money? Yeah, a little bit of money. I wouldn't have said that we were not rich,

but we got by. Okay. So you're on the road essentially every day. How does that affect your marriage? Um? We're okay? Now that are you still married to that? Bleay? Um, we're together, let's put it that way. I gotta ask what that means. It means that we're we're we're together where we're happy together. Okay, But you made it sound like but you're still married? Correct? Yes? No? No? Did you get divorced and at some point you never you never got married? Which one is it we were divorced,

recently divorced. Yeah, nothing to do with being in a band. What causes a divorce at this stage of life? Goodness only knows. I you know, I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, so I have no idea. I do know one thing, and that is that UM. Being in a relationship uh is is a deep thing if it's going to work forever, um and can be hard. Work things things out of your hand. Um, get in the way of stuff. It's difficult, stop surprising. Ready? Is there a

third party involved? That's Noah, Okay, So let's go back to Graham Parker. You work with Mutt Lane, who then goes on to be considered one of the great record producers. Reilly has success and in my phenomenal Did you realize he had that level of talent at the time? No, No, I didn't. And the bands, which is from Mercury to hera staff, was that something you felt in the band? Um? Well, you have to you have to remember that Graham Parker

as an entity other than the rumor. I know we did everything together, but we were not the rumor, were not signed um to anyone. We had We eventually had a sorry, um A record deal with Arista as the rumor. Um, so where where Graham went? So it it seemed like the move from me Cree too Arista was a good idea. But it's business stuff. I don't know. I have no idea. Okay, So the band is not signed to the label, but

was just on everyday life. Because you're playing all these gigs, is Graham separate from you or you feel that you're all in it together? I, having having been in the in the Brindles, being in the Brinslees changes, I want to believe that you are in it all together. We weren't ordering it together and so rightly or wrongly, that was my my impression for philosophical idea of how it was.

That's what I didn't think about it a lot. I just you just do what you do and and pretty much what I did was as as if we were all together. So I think that's how we were. Okay, So hard does it end with the band in Graham? Um? I think Graham came to a full stop. Um. I think he was unhappy with with the way things were going. Um, with the amount of money that we he and was put into into touring and all the all the other stuff.

I think he needed to to stop for a while and gather gather himself again and change things to to he was not happy with. So it was it was completely amicable. We just he just said, I'm I'm stopping and you guys go do what you what you want to do. Okay. The Graham peels off like a stage of a rocket. Where does that leave you in the

Rumor and what happens there? Uh? The Rumor carried on as a four piece without Bob andrews um And we made we made another album, so that would be our third album without Graham um And and we had to

make that twice. There was a record company thing that that we had to obey a certain thing in a in a contract which we didn't obey, and and so we had we had a record that was released in the in the UK, and then another version which so we re recorded everything, which was released in the United States. Which one was better? Well, they were, they were different. Actually, we were talking about it the other day. One of the songs is on it is have You Seen My Baby?

Which is a Randy Newman song. Uh, And Steve emailed us all and said, I probably said, now I heard all this, I think ours was better. Um, yeah, I guess the the USA one was was better. It was definitely it was definitely looser feeling. So how does it grind to a halt with the rumor? Just it just does stuff. You know, if you if you can't get work that you can afford to do, or that is is not what you want to be doing, then it all it all stops, and and Steve and I carried

on playing. We played with Garland Jeffries, Um the band played with Garden Jeffries. We supported and backed him um and then later Steve and I went on to play with him on another tour. Um and then and then that stopped. And so that was the end of the rumor and split up by then. Okay, but ultimately you go straight you give up the music. How does that tell me the far process there? Um? Well, getting back

a bit um. When Graham got himself together again and made made another another his next album, I was in New York converting our agents newly acquired loft building or loft floor into a five room office. Did I did all the the walls, all the electricity blurred, the ceilings, all of that and made it into a pretty cool office space. And while that was. While I was doing that, I was I was staying with with Alan or agent um And and Graham was looking for a guitar player.

He had the risk of the band All Americans um And was looking for a guitar player. And they had arranged long much and came up with with no one. And Alan said, Brinsley's staying with me, and Graham said yeah, okay, was he up for it? And so I had obviously said, you know, if he asked, I'm up for it. Alan said, yes, he's up for it. Graham, why didn't I think of that?

And so I got back playing. And then through the eighties I played, made four albums, produced Mona, Lisa's sister and Human Soul with him and so, and toured with him UM. But in one I started very loosely working fixing guitars and did one day a week at the store UM, which I really enjoyed. They were really good to me. They allowed me to go off and and

play on tours and make records. So I had spent six months working with Graham and said months working in this store fixing guitars, and that got busier and busier until I was working five six days a week. UM and then in nine late I think we were we were touring and in America. I think it was Lost A and LX that I was. I was walking to the plane perfectly, okay. I was not freaked out or anything, not worried. And I don't really do that anymore. I

don't don't recall. But they used to put yellow and black take a big wide yellow and black tape across the floor where you were going from one area to another. And I reached this tape, which was at the top of the the shoot what are those calls the shoots that you walked down to plays gateway. I was walking towards. I got to it and stopped and I looked down. I wasn't even looking. I just stopped and I looked down.

Oh that's interesting. There's that yellow and black tape. Went to put my foot across it, and I couldn't, so right, I was perplexed. I turned around, walked away, came back at speed, stopped, dried for about ten minutes, and stopped

every time I ran at it stopped. And I was standing there and they were calling last call for the flight, and our keyboard player, who had a tendency to leave everything until the very last moment, walked up behind me, put his hands on my shoulder and said, friends, thanks for waiting for me, and pushed me across the line, at which point I walked down to the plane. I had a very pleasant flight up to I think it was to Oregon, um, and that was the last flies

apart from flying back to England on that tour. And I got someone to push me over the line, and I s that's how I got on the plane and came back to England. And then for from then until I didn't fly, and I knew that I couldn't get on an airplane again. Um, and then so when when I that sort of backed it up for me. Really I couldn't do it anymore? Wait wait, wait, wait wait, what was going on there? In retrospect twenty years you couldn't fly? Did you just have a pianic attack? How

did you get over it? I didn't know what. I didn't need to get over it because I never got on a plane. I was pushed twice and was okay, well, well you haven't met but you started to get on planes again? Correct? Yes? So how did you do that? Um? I went to the doctors and said, I've got to I've got to fly. I have a problem getting on the plane. Um, I've got to fly to the States. And so I was wondering if there's anything you could give me that would would arm me enough to get

on the plane. And she very kindly said, just have a couple of bottles, a couple a couple of glasses of red wine and you'll be fine. So Martin said he would help. Martin's not very happy flying either, So I thought, this is going to be fun. Someone who doesn't like flying with somebody who can't get or a plane. Um. And we got to We got to Heathrow Terminal five, which was very pleasant. Oh walked around for a bit and then saw that it was time we could go

and check in. So we went to the check in desk, presented our passports and papers and every saying tickets and the guy said, ah, I'm very sorry to have to tell you that your plane has been delayed. So I so I said, so I'd had the two glasses of wine by now, so I I laughed and said, and so what are you doing? And he said, We're getting another one, and and I said, and that one will be all right. Um. And so they spluttered a bit and he said, yes, sir, that one would be fine. Uh,

And and it was. But um, the wine had taken its effect. I needed more. And so I don't remember an awful lot about what happened after that, but I overswine and and and have flown quite quite a reasonable amount since. And uh enjoyed it and not had a problem. Do you still drink the two glasses of wine? Absolutely? Yes? Yeah, okay, So tell me about the period when you couldn't fly what you were doing. I fixed guitars in the store. I branched out of my my by myself a couple

of times. I got so this is this is about. From the moment that I heard Apache, the only thing that I was really in love with in terms of things were guitars, electric tiars. UM completely fascinated by them. I loved I like looking at them and pouring over them. It's a it's a boyhood fascination that never never went away.

So to be able to work on them all day long and be paid for it, and be able to play them while you're fixing them and learning about why they go wrong and how they go wrong and how to fix them was was fascinating and I'm lucky to have to have been able to do that, to be with guitars, the thing that I love all my life. Okay, I have a good Gibson Acoustic s J. My mother left it in the cross space. It's got some mold

on the top. Is that something you could fix? I'd have to as as all repairs say, I would have to see it. But potentially yes. Okay, well I'm asking really because you're in the UK and I'm in the US, and we're not going to actually do this. Um, you can do things besides the trust rod and adjusting strings. You can work on the whole instrument. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not so good inside acoustic guitars that that, you know, fixing struts and things like that. That's um, that's that's difference.

But refretting, fret dressing, as I call it. Um, that's that's a complicated thing. So don't it do strange things? And so if a guitar needs setting up, it also might need a refret, which is a big job and has to be done carefully and accurately. Um. But the main The main thing is is that I I because I've been a guitar player for so long, I kind of intuitively know how a guitar is supposed to feel.

When when I'm during the final part of setting up a guitar, which is which do with the nut and the trust rod and the action, there seems to be a sweet spot, and I am prepared to work until I find the sweet spot if it's there, and find her ball. That that's my my thing. I'm interested in

making guitars feel like guitar players think they should. Okay, my understanding is a professional of your caliber would not play a guitar off the rack, that they would immediately send it to someone like you to set it up.

Is that true? Um? Yeah, I think, Um, I haven't I haven't tried all of them, but yes, in general, there isn't a There isn't a guitar, so there are specialist makers, but in the run of the mill guitars that there isn't one that wouldn't benefit from at least a set up and probably possibly a fret dress in a setup. And just to be clear, a setup would entail without the threat that would entail adjusting the trust rod so that the neck was true as true as

it can be. Um. They the action and the nutcuts correctly, the nut slots but correctly. UM, and adjustments to make sure that it plays in tune all the way up to next. Okay, is this lucrative business? Um? If you were doing it for yourself, yes, if you were doing it in a store, um not. Wages are not fabulously I So you would go back and forth being independent? What was that about? Um? The independent stuff was bigcause while I was I was getting involved in fixing guitars,

also got interested in our amplifiers. And at one point, quite accidentally, I stumbled across a little part of a circuit dar fire circuit that made things made them sound, um, very comfortable. That helped you, made you want to carry on playing. Um. And I've talked to a couple of friends who are amplifier you know, proper designers and repairers who know what they're talking about. Uh. And one in

particular was really interested in it. Pointed out to me why that happened electronically, um and and pointed out to me that no, no electronics person would do that. But actually it just seems to be no reason not to. It works and it sounds very good. Um, So I was I attempted to start making um amplifiers. I came to a halt that I couldn't find anybody who would print out a face plate, you know, with base, middle, treble and volume and the name written across it that

you would stick to the front um. It would cost two and a half grand. Whether you wanted one or he wanted two thousand or four thousand. The setup work was was what cost the money, and the making of it was just the cost of a bit of plastic or word and a bit of machining. UM. And that kind of stopped me. And then Graham phoned up instead, we're doing it again, And so I stopped being a guitar repairer and an AMP build a modifier. There's quite

a lot of my modified apps out there in this country. No, I did do quite quite a lot, and some one in particular is in a in a studio where apparently all the guitar players that go there use that AMPR. Okay, so what does it look like that you work with Graham Um? Graham phoned up. I was the last person he phoned, and he said he said that I know you're going to say no because you can't get on an aeroplane, but I'm going to try any anyway, and

everybody wants me to so um. And he explained what he was what he was doing, which was to make another Grand Park in the Rumor record and he'd love for me to be involved, and could I get on a plane and I said absolutely, no problem at all, no worries, just tell me when I'll be there. Great, And so we had a chat about it a little bit and then I put the phone down and sat back and talk shit, I've just said I'll get over an aeroplane, and and I did, and it was all fine. Okay.

So at this point in time, okay, let me ask you difficult why you're a luthier. Are you continuing to play music yourself? Yeah, well, if you're fixing it, so you need to play it for ten fifteen minutes before you start. You played the fifteen minutes afterwards, played for a couple of hours if nobody's Hastley hastling you. So I played every day, probably more than I played when I was on the road, where you don't get much

time for it. Apart from the gig. Uh and and later I used to hang around in sound checks as long as I could. Um. Yeah, So I played a lot, and at some point I started writing songs as well, which I hadn't done for quite a long time. Then did you play any bands in that era? No? Well, I had played bass with a friends band. They're bass player left and they couldn't find another one, so I said I'll played bass with so I I started playing bass and we played a gig. It was just really

I love playing bass. Um. Okay, So you recently put out a new album. It's this late date actually in the crazy world we live in music now, where the biggest household name Max, put out records in there immediately stiff. What motivated you to make a record now? Um? I think what what motivated me finally was that the one that the tune that I recorded to start with turned out the experience of it and and it itself turned

out so well that I wanted to carry on. I had more songs, and and I thought, you know, why not, this will cost me a little bit of money, but actually it would be fun and and and it was. But it started with James halliwell, who played with us on Mona Lisa sister. It was a keyboard player. He's got this little studio off in in Richmond, and he came to one of the Grand Parker of the Rumor gigs in London Shepherds Push Empire, and came backstage and

said high and said, you know, we're just talking. So what are you? What are you doing? Sort of doing this and writing a few songs? He said, what if you want to come and record one? I've got little studio. Why did you come down? And so I did and recorded a song which I wanted to record for a relative's wedding as a wedding present, and which we did and and carried on. Both said. We both looked at each other after we've played it back in its mix form,

said well that's pretty good, isn't it. Should we do some more? And he said, yeah, let's do some more. We could make an EP and before we knew it, we'd made an ill okay if you made it in his studio. Essentially the cost was lower, non existent. Uh no, um, I got what's what we call mates rate, but pay you paid, But there's a record company. The record company reimburse you. They just releasing the record. Um, well, if we're talking about Tangles, so I was talking about the

first album. Okay, we'll continue the narrative. You make make the first record, but you put the first record out yourself. Yeah, that's right. And sold it where I where I could. There was want to with Graham, sold sold someone that a Japanese guy called me up and wanted two. Yeah, I just told it where I could. I still have a few left, um, and I haven't broken even on that. That's the second album Tangled, that I paid for and it's selling few and so I will get reimbursement at

some point for some of it. But as I think, we don't. We really don't do this for the money because because it's not it's not there. It's very difficult. Um. But we enjoy it. So what was the motivation for Tangled? Um? Well, mainly because it it started because there was that there are songs that UM as as I as I was recording, unexpected, there was I was writing more songs, and so some of the songs that I wrote while we were making it UM seemed to be better, better suited to some

of the other songs that were already there. So we ended up with three four songs that were, you know, on their way to being finished. Um. And so there was the beginnings of another album, and I had more songs ready, so we just carried on and and now we've carried We've carried on and Tangled Is is out there, and I've got three or four songs almost finished and eight ten songs written. Um. Some of them have just got basic demo tracks. Some of them are almost finished.

So I have another album. It's it's not like it's not like I'm making albums. It's that I'm just recording songs. And at some point you have enough for an album, so you put it out. Now are you playing live? I am not at the momentum. I'm afraid. I don't. I trust very little about our government and what it's saying. I think it So I think today's COVID infection rate went up to over forty five thousand. It's been forty

five or above for the last two weeks. No one, well, the only people may wearing masks are doing it voluntarily. So you can go into supermarket and half the people are unmasked. There's obviously hundreds of thousands of people in this country with it. People who have been double vaccinated have died, have caught it and again and died. Um, so I don't think it's safe. So prior to COVID,

were you were you playing live? Um? No? When I was playing with Graham, and pretty much after after that, I was sort of mid mid doing things and COVID came as a as a rise, and I was lucky to be able to actually finish Tangled because that it got really difficult. Um, we're traveling in the studio. Okay, when was the last time you played with Graham? Um? Five? I would say five years ago now for four to five years. And is that the last chapter or you

never know? Oh sorry, is that the last chapter? Or might you play with him again? Um? Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I'd be very happy to play with him again if he's up for it. Um. And all these people that have gone through, Bobby Andrews and Nick Low, etcetera. Have you mainteam connection with all of them? Um no? I I think if I've talked to Nick a dozen times since the Prinses broke up, that's about about it. Um. Bob Yeah, more more obviously because he was in the

rumor and then and then in the Rumor a second time. Um, when we did it again. Um. So I'm in touch with members of the Rumor and Graham. Um okay if this late D do you get any royal dues or any you know, public performance moneies? Yeah, I get there's a great a great company or a company organization called PPL, and they sent me check enough to live on, not enough to live or no, But I don't. I don't

know where it comes from. Sometimes it's it's what i'd call quite a lot of money, but sometimes it's sunny, it's like a fifty pounds, and sometimes it's a thousand or two. Um. But yeah, you can't, you can't live live on that. So I'm officially a retired person. Um so ah so I am working very very little, really working more on songwriting and and arranging things in my head ready for the studio, hopefully going into the studio again in a week's time. UM to record at least one,

if not to song new songs. Um. If you're getting this limited money from from your past work, what are you living on? Um? Just just money that I have. UM, I in writ it. A little um money comes, A little money comes. In I seem to be able to balance the books fairly reasonably. It's it's not I'm not I'm not wealthy or anything. And and really I want to do what I what I like doing and for as long as I can. So well, you've saved money

from your musical. You know a lot of musicians when they get to the end, they didn't save any money. So you save money from your musical endeavor. Um, Yeah, no, I think. I think what I inherited is what keeps me above water doing doing what I do. But I seem to be able to go along and and make ends meet, um, without being hugely successful or wealthy. Okay, I'm just gonna ask. In America we have social security. I assume you have the equivalent in the UK. It's

not enough money to live on here. What's the situation in the UK? Um? We have we have a pension, a national pension scheme. So everybody's does that. If they work, they pay every week into it. And at the end of when you stop working, when you when you retire, when you reach the official retirement age. Um, you get paid every your pension, your state pension, every every month. And is it enough to live I mean, you've inherited money,

but for the average person, isn't enough to live on? Um, I would say just, but I think I think most people have has something else other than I think I think most people who who who you wouldn't regard really poor. And we have a lot of important role in this country. But but everybody seems to have enough to get by and go on holiday. Okay, let me ask you about a couple of tracks, because I mean, I did buy the first first room around, I did see it at

the Roxy. But going into some of this Graham Parker stuff, can you tell me the process of writing something I'm going through? Because it has that white reggae feel. How does that a song like that come together? That's that's the one of Graham songs I know. But did he come with that groove? Um? Yeah, I think I think so. He usually comes with with with a groove and playing acoustic guitar, and he would also he would also play

little chord changes, tiny little things that. Okay, more than occasionally I've cotton donto and used um as a as a tune or a riff in the song, like like nobody hurts you that the guitar part that I play is based upon something he was doing on on rhythm on a rhythm part, so I'd hear that. Um, yeah, I think, I think. You know, it's a broad range of things. Sometimes he has he has no idea and

we we would we would kind of arrange it veen us. Um. Sometimes he would have a lot of idea and and we'd step back and and try to, you know, put what he was talking about into a band scenario. Fool's Gold on the same album, the Heat Treatment album, it starts with almost a waterfall flourished sound. Who would come up with that or who did come up with that? I don't remember. I mean, was it always Graham or sometimes the producer? Um? I think, well the producers, so

that there are different producers who all work differently. We had a we've had a few odd things with some of the producers that we we worked with. Um M, I don't know that the sound that you're you're you're talking about, Um, it's a long long time since I listened to fulls Gold. It's not that long ago that I played it. But what are your two favorite Graham Parker and the Rumor tracks Love Gets You Twisted and

watched them Man come Down. Okay, you have you must have been asked that before, because you have the question. You have the answers right away now, I've I haven't been I haven't been asked it. Well, I've been asked it indirectly, and so I don't. But those are my two favorite tracks, and I've just recorded what I've recorded, Love Gets You Twisted and I'm I'm parked recorded Watch the Moon Come Down. So they are for there in my head at the moment. Right. So, if your musical career,

what are you most proud of? I've been asked this before as as well, so as a as a guitar player. UM, the solo on This Town, which is on max, Um, the solo on what is that song? Right going to I think of the song as selfish because that's how I how I wrote it. As a track on Unexpected, the solo on that, and the solo on Stranded on UM the work. So proud of being in the rumor and proud to have worked with Graham, I'd say happy, more than proud. I'm happy to have done those things.

And yeah, all the day to day stuff that that you do when you're on the road, helping each other through various things, and and proud to have built an amplifier not quite from scratch, but pretty much from scratch that everybody that goes into that studio plays. That's Ralph Salmon's Studio's Drauma who played on Unexpected Um. He's he's um, you know, quite a big trauma. He's got a little studio. People go and record stuff there, and all the guitar

players love this. This EMPLATHYZ song. That's it. I'm I'm proud to do that kind of stuff. Okay, Brinsley, I think we've hit the high point of your career. I have a million more questions. Maybe well maybe one time when we're face to face. You're quite the storyteller. I want to thank you so much for doing this and hopefully you'll have continued success with Tangled. Thank you very much. Been good talking to you. It's been nice to talk to somebody who who knows the music industry and and

bands and players. Like I said, thanks so much. Till next time. This is Bob left Sex