ANDY SOMERS

agent was an employment agent for people who entertained. You know, find me a job, guy with a guitar, guy with a trumpet, find me a job. That was traditionally what agents did. As musicians became more artists, entrepreneurial, etcetera, managers, there's a lot more going on than just find a job. Agents position can change. I mean, the basic nuts and bolts of it is setting up gigs, negotiating the deals, etcetera. Um, But the more to it now is, you know, where

do we play? Why do we play here? Um? Are we supporting a record? Are we just out? Hey, I gotta make a living. Um? There's all sorts of different reasons that you know that an age, what what an

agent does okay, but an agent, unlike in the movie business. Uh, there's an element of career direction, but it's focused primarily on live gigs, focused on live and you know, different agents have different relationships with their artists, with their managers, with the managers of the artists, or some artists don't have managers. So you know, in the case of some bands, it's just me. You know, we're in the music, we're

in the business together. So you obviously will provide a lot more vision in that situation than you do is opposed to just finding gigs and hopefully good. Okay, so you've been doing this for how long? I started? In reality? This current things started in like the mid eighties. Well, that begs a question, the current thing? What was the thing? Well, I was at the in the late seventies. I was at the William Morris mill Room. Okay, legendarily we heard

back in that era. I mean David Geffin worked there. Whatever, How did you get that gig? My cousin worked in the personnel department and I had gotten out of college. I wanted to be in music or tell, I wanted to be in the entertainment business, but instead I was working at a coffee factory in Munichi, New Jersey. Where even is that UM Route seventeen Route four around there? It's uh, Hackensack. Let's go back before I know, but

my audience doesn't know where you from. Originally, I'm originally from Bronx, New York, UM until I was about nine or ten, and then I'm from Danbury, Connecticut. So you're in Danbury, Connecticut. To what degree are you infected by music? Um? Initially, my older cousin would play met this is still back in the Bronx and mostly doop stuff, and you know, we listen to radio, etcetera. And you know, I can remember listening to the duop stuff but not knowing who

any of the names of the acts were. And but I remember hearing Buddy Holly and there was something appealing to me. I didn't think much of it, and then I moved on because I was more about, you know, watching baseball anyway, Um in Connecticut, you know, fifth grade, the Beatles and that's it was all over for me. And did you grow your hair along? Uh? Probably not till about would I have the permission to have done that till about like sixties six sixty seven, And uh,

you know. But I did go out to Tom McCann and get a pair of like Cuban heell beetle boots, you know, so I would alternate those between those and Legions penny loafers, you know, because that was what you did in Connecticut. Oh absolutely, But you know, I didn't have the Beatles boots. But I remember convincing my mother that I could wear desert boots to the school dance. But desert boots were the other shoes you wore when you weren't wearing your penny loafers exactly. Remember the Scotch

Green penny loafers. I went to school with Betsy Bass. It was Bass Regions. She totally cracked me up. I think she's still involved in the company. So are you a big record collector at that time? Not yet, because records were too expensive and and you know, so you know a couple of times a month, you know, you go to Kaldor and you go buy the records. You're right, right, Caldor was a discount place. It was sort of upscale compared to like Tops. It was like the peak of

the discount place. Yeah, so we'd buy record I'd buy an album here and there, and you know, but it was mostly you know, I could buy forty five, but

I was listening to the radio. I wouldn't start probably, you know, around sixty was when albums became real important for me to own and like realized it's something to collect and it's it's it's when maybe that's when you realize when you had a record, you don't put your fingers on it, and that and the paper that comes in the in the cardboard cover, you don't throw that

out anymore. Absolutely, you're totally cracking me up, especially when you have girlfriends and you're afraid they're gonna put their fingers on the vinyl. That was one of the great things. You just held the edge and flip it over. So uh, Now, if you're in Danbury, what stations are you listening to? Um w d R C from Hartford. You know when when FM started, Scott Muni on from w ABC, moved over to w o R and all of a sudden FM, which was only classic gold music rock station, and then

w n WFM. But earlier than that, you know w m C A and w A b C. I mean, cousin Brucey, I listened to w d R C as well as those other things. And also sometimes it was W A v Z out of New Haven and then you could also get the stations from Long Island as time. When I okay, so you graduate from high school and what happened? Um, head off to Elmira College up state New York. We're kind of kind of just west of Binghamton. Oh you know, and just before you get to Horseheads?

How far Corning right? How far would it be from there to New York City? Four hours? Okay, So when you're in high school, you're going to gigs. Uh yeah, we would take the train from Brewster, New York and go see uh, you know Poco with Linda ron Staton, Manhattan Transfer opening at the Fillmore East. Um, a lot of Connecticut gigs. I mean the m C five played the Palace Theater in Danbury. The movie theater went to that. Um,

I'm trying to think what school it was in. Uh, either not West Stanford, Stanford High there they would put out they would have shows. I saw Peter Frampton there, I saw that. I saw the Birds there. I remember it's Staples I saw, which is Westport, which one time over from where I grew up. I know Staples High. I got. I got beat up by some guys from there, coming home from a Danbury High basketball game. It's another story another time. It's not music business related, but I

know Staples. Wait, you're how did you get beaten up? I was just walking home with Danbury High had won the game, and I'm walking home because I lived about half a mile from Danbury High. So we're walking home and this car just drives up. I'm walking home with my friend who lived across the street, and these guys just hop out of the car. I tell my friend just start running, and they got me and they beat the crap out of me. Then, you know, then they left.

Then I got up and I walked home. Were bedraggled with your parents. You know what It's like. I can handle pain pretty well, you know. You know they saw that. I you know, I was cut up a little bit, and you know, I got a had. These guys from Staples they beat the crap out of me, you know, and that was that. No flood of revenge. Well what am I gonna do? Get on Roots seven and drive down to Stanford. Okay, so, uh you got to Elmira. Do they have concerts at Elmira. They did first one

when I was a freshman was the Elves. Ronny James Dio was the lead singer and he was from somewhere in upstate New York. Yeah, I think so. I think the band is from up there, Rochester or something like that. How were they? Um, it's all right, okay, it wasn't like you said there was. There was no life change there. Okay. So who else played when you were in colle um? Oh, we had a great show. It was either Freshman Mountain, John Mayle and Peter Frampton opening and that this was

like right after Frampton's camel had come out. So me and my friends were nuts for Peter Frampton and paying him. The school paid him five hundred bucks. Right. Um, we went back that we got to meet him. You know. It's like we you know, we we got so into Peter Frampton that we also knew all about the Herd, you know, and you know, obviously humble Pie now my one of my few claims to fame. I was there when Roger Marri said his sixty one. But I was also at the Fillmore East when Frampton was still in

a Humble Pie and then recorded Rocking and Fillmore. That's big. That's big in any event. Any did you travel to other colleges to Bingham to Oh yeah, we I remember going to see the Kinks at Sunny Binghamton. I saw Poco there. We'd go up to Ithaca a lot, so Stevie Wonder at Bailey Hall, cornell Um Elton john on the on his first tour after Davy Johnson joined the band Um the Beach Boys and that and that was like a great period to see the Beach Boys live.

I saw him in to Haven Colinson. You know, this was you know, you know, I mean, Brian Wilson wasn't there, but Blondie Chaplin was and Dennis Wilson was there and you know, and and it was that was it was just a great set list, right and then they put out the album Beach Boys in concerts. Now. If you talk to our friend Don Strassburgh was a promoter in Denver, he did his first game. He went to a gig. He said, I want to do this. Okay, were you going to gigs and saying, hey, I want to do this.

I want to be in the live business, not necessarily you know what I think I think underneath it all I wanted to be a guitar player. I want, really, I want. I played good enough to be an agent. Um. You know, you know it's like you know, yeah, I think you have even said this too. You know, at one point you want to be Mickey Mantle, but then but then all of a sudden, no, I want to be George Harrison. Absolutely, I remember vividly. You got it exactly right for that period. But I remember, and this

guy tracked me down. I hadn't seen him in forty years, my good friend Mark. He would play and I was there with my guitar one day and he was there with his guitar and he goes, okay, now let's change keys. And I said, I'm out. I was not good enough to do that. But you were actually that good? No, not at all. Okay, but did were you ever in bands? Yes, in college, in high school. Um, in high school, if you got to be in a band, if you had an instrument, right, and uh, even if you could play

it or not. And so I actually joined a band with some friends, you know, mostly the friends from Hebrew school. And uh, we started a band. And the guy who couldn't play an instrument, he got to be the lead singer. And I wasn't that good a guitarist. But I had a guitar. What um, it was a Harmony Rocket three, A lot of a lot I had. I had an amplifier, a really good amplifier. He was a Fender Deluxe Reaver, like back in the day, twelve inch with Reaver, which

is basically my amp. Now not that same man, but it's a reissue of it. You know that one. It's long gone. But any rate, we started this band and one of the guys, well, I'm trying to think how it happened that I ended up being the bass player, because I ended up being the bass play because I wasn't a good guitar guitarist, and that's you know, you become the bass player. Well, I don't know all these super bass players they played basses with tho frets, Well

those those are real musicians. I mean, there's a lot of bands out there where the bass player is just their friend as opposed to a musicians. Yeah, but then there's a lot you know, because in my mind, the backbone to any great song is how good a bass player do you have? And how tasteful does the bass player play? More than the drummer. They're locked they need to be locked in. Okay. So you graduate from college and you move where, Um to Hackensack, New Jersey. Why Hackensack,

New Jersey? Because I got a job at the coffee factory, and that's something you applied for. It's hard to get a job when you get out of I know, I know, but I don't say, oh, I'm gonna look for a job at Hackenson, you know what. I just wanted to make money and get started. How did you actually get the job? Were they recruiting on campus or something? Um? I think I saw an ad and I applied for it. I knew it was like who's been to the assistant

to the factories? The manager there in the packaging department. Um, I'd come home smelling like roasted coffee every night. It was a place called Wexlaer Coffee where they had their own brand, but they also packaged Dunkin Donuts coffee. You know, it was same coffee, just different thing. Um. So I was literally there for about maybe six weeks when I

get the call that I got an interview at William Morris. Um, what was your cousin doing that he could get you the interview her, and she was she was the assistant to the head of personnel. And was she a close cousin. Yeah, we all grew up on the same block in the Bronx. So I got the interview. I mean obviously she kept putting, you know, my resume on the top of the pile. So when it was time for them to high air and I got the job. So I quit the coffee factory.

I think they saw it coming. They knew that this was a placeholder for gathering some income. And so I was at the in the mail room. And when you moved to New York City, uh not for a year. I I literally just took the bus in from New Jersey because I had a year lease on the apartment in Hackensack, and worked my way into the music department. Became a little bit slower for those people. Okay, you're in the mail room. What do you actually do in

the mail room? You deliver mail, sort the mail, make copies. Um, you sit on the reception desk when the receptionist is uh is that lunch? Um? You run errands. So when you're there, how many people are in the mail room, Probably about eight to ten trainees at any given time. And were any of them women? No, not in nineteen seventy nine, no, different totally. Okay. How many of those people make it up the ladder and how many people wash out? Um? Probably about sixties sevent make it up

the ladder to an assistant. And I don't know how it works now at those companies and I'm removed from it. But you know, you'd become an assistant to an agent. Let's say we're in the mail room. How long you're in the mail room before you stop doing that? For me it was little over a year, okay. And are you looking for opportunities or do they find the opportunities for you? You make friends? At that time I was making friends with you know, the agents upstairs and the

assistance upstairs. They knew that my target was mused um. And then when the spot opened, I got it. And uh, you know, when you're an assistant there um, there's rules to follow, you know, just it's a corporate structure there um, which I don't fit in with very well. And you know, as as the department evolved, all of a sudden, somebody's in charge of the department. That's like that gets me, um, your friend and mine, Wayne Forte, he was in charge

of the department. He was the head of the department during a time when like I was really developing my skills. I mean we were we were out every night, all the assistants. We're out every night, or at Rahs, Max's, CBGBs, the mud club at like where the headliner comes on at one thirty to two o'clock in the morning. And you got to be at work what time, by ten, But if you're smart, you're there at your desk by thirty nine, you know. And you know, so having done that,

you know, you also start getting itchy. So I ended up finding a band to manage um to hone my skills with. And you know that's totally not part of the rules. But and also for these guys in this band who have who are still to this day very close friends of mine, you know, they trusted in me um and I didn't know ship. I mean I literally they were guinea pigs, you know, but they had nobody else. I just loved them. I thought they were really good.

Just go back for a second. When you're out every night, are you going to see the company's bands or are you looking for new talent to sign a little of both, not really looking on behalf of the I was. I was typing contract so all day I was answering phones. Um, I wasn't ready to go sign a band to the agency.

I hadn't honed my skills. You know, I was out, you know, because you know, I guess one of the highlights of my career early on was I was out enough people knew I where I worked that the day I knew, I could walk to C. B. G B's Hilly Crystals, sitting there and I get in free, right, I mean easily one of the ten highlights of my career when I when I'd go to Max's Kansas City and I've been sitting at the door, come on in, you know, ever being at the Roxy and I still

have it when the table was reserved and it was my name, I took that sting. That was one of the same things. So I mean that those were magic, And you know, so I get to go see Johnny Thunders, I'd get to go to shows and go I just wanted to be entertained when I wasn't doing business. I wanted to go see bands. If I wasn't at Yankee Stadium. Okay, so how did you find this band to manage? Um? I started. I met this girl who was managing a band and asked who asked me if I had help?

All right, And this was quasi romance. No what No, not at all, not at all, just somebody I met, And like, I'm just meeting people who are involved because I'm making friends, making meeting new people, um that are on the scene in New York. Because prior to that, I was just a college kid who go into the city to go watch bands. So now I'm part of

I'm trying to incorporate myself into this scene. And I go, I saw this band, I said, yeah, I'd like to help him out, but then I got blown out instantly, right, um. But through her, I met this other band, UM band called the Boyfriends, UM four guys UM that I could tell. Their influences were you know, the Beatles, the Stones, and they were living in the punk rock world, um, which is no different than when we first all discovered the Ramons.

You knew, God, these guys loved the Beatles and the Beach Boys, you know, at a time when like music was all about bands, Like yes, there was a refreshment there. So so I started managing this band and really wasn't that smart of a manager. I was just because I was at an agency and I was meeting promoters and clubs. I was getting them really really good gigs. And ultimately, Wayne, who was the head of the department, and you know this,

he's the represents David Bowie. He's brought in the Clash and the Jam, all of these bands that like, we're cooler than anything new at the time for me. Um, he kind of saw what I was doing, um and let me get away with it. Yeah. And uh. He had this band on Columbia called the Hitmen and they were coming out around the same time as a psychedelic first same label, and he goes, Andy, this band is going to move to New York. They're gonna be here for eight months or two a year, and they want

to work like a local band. I want to see them getting the kind of gigs that you're stupid band is good. And from that was it. I got instinct and was able to achieve results. I was able to achieve results, and I did a good enough job that that Wayne, as head of the department, ran interference with the people upstairs about the fact that I wore sneakers to work every day. So that was good, very important,

very important. Okay, and don't you fumble at first booking gigs. Um, I got the hang of it pretty quick, you know what, I don't you know what. I worked for this agent as the assistant to this guy Stewinstrub, and he was very plugged in. I mean his acts were like you know, Andy Gibb and Herbie Hancock, and he was a territorial booker. So through him I would hear his tech. You know, you had a listening device, so I'm hearing I'm hearing him.

I'm hearing his rap the way he does it. Um. And there was a real sincerity to him that because I knew him, I knew that was real sincerity. It wasn't like, you know, I wasn't jive talking, and so I probably picked up a little bit of how he does it, and I know what my personality is and uh, and I knew I was learning the mechanics of of numbers of how you know, gigs work and up and just gathering it. But you know, the focus was, Hey, I get to be close to music. Okay, So you're

managing this band, you're working with a hit man. And what happens next? Um, both bands flopped despite me having done a good job. UM, And what happens next is at at William Morris Wayne Wayne leaves to start I t G with another agent, etcetera. I'm left there, A new department head is brought in from the outside who has a young gun, etcetera. And I had been promoted to agent literally right before Wayne left. UM And realistically I probably wasn't ready. I just think I was rewarded

for whatever. But I knew I was going to ultimately be able to do it. But I also knew for some reason, I had this weird feeling that the new regime, it's like, I'm not gonna last. And I had that. I knew that I wasn't gonna last. And Ian Copeland had had called me from FBI, had had reached out a few months earlier. So the minute I sensed and I literally was dedicated, I was going to stay where I was. But the minute I got the feeling I

was going to end up getting fired. UM. I called Ian and he offered me the gig, and he goes, when can you start? And I said, well, you gotta wait till after I get fired here, because they're gonna give me severance pay if I if I if I quit, if I don't, as long as I don't quit. And that all happened, and I literally went went to work for Ian and uh, you know, FBI was like the coolest place in the world. UM they were really the first boutique agency in in the line of many boutique

agencies that came afterwards. UM. I was there for about six weeks and I got some sort of an anxiety that's, you know, I don't want to be an agent. I want to be a manager because I had had so much fun managing the Boyfriends. UM. So for about three years or so, I became a manager. I had a partner.

We were managing a band called the Rousers. We were managing Wayne Kramer because we had met Wayne through Johnny Thunders, who me and my partner had had worked with UM and uh, we were just doing that and we'd pick up an occasional band to book just for cash flow. But it was you quit FBI after how long? About six weeks? And what did he Copeland say? Not a lot, not a lot. It's just okay. We could tell you weren't feeling it okay, but generally speaking he was always great.

Management is a license to starve, and I did, and I did, and then uh Uh, once I realized I was starving, that was that. And then another friend of mine, who had been an agent at a company called Variety in in Minneapolis, um Uh went to work uh at a small agency called Singer Management, which was run by Bob Singerman. Frank Riley was working there, etcetera. So my friend goes to work there, my friend Arnie. And about a week after he's there is when Frank left to

start venture booking. Um and I get a call, Hey, will you come in and just help us books and bands? We got stuff to do. I said, okay, I'll come for a little bit. In the first two weeks, um I signed the Gun Club, Arnie starts signing the entire roster from Alligator Records. Um Uh signed a band on Caroline called Gene Loves Jezebel. And we're off to the races. And so we have our our agency going. We find this is being an agent, this is not I'm an

agent again. I'm totally an agent again. And all of a sudden, I'm getting about two three hundred dollars a week to take home, right, Okay, I'm good with that. And your parents supportive or not not supportive? Uh? They were real supportive, real supportive. Um, I really said. My dad didn't get to see the year when everything just click and turned around for me, but he believed that I was gonna do something right. So so we have this little agency and we move up town. We find

a lawyer who has office space. We move uptown from the Cable building which was down on Canal Street on Houston Street and Broadway, and at the time in that building, Frank Riley was upstairs and Venture Booking Steve Martin had the music business agency in that building. And so we go uptown and we started our agency and through through the lawyer, we get turned on two people, Roadrunner Records, and all of a sudden, I'm starting to learn about

metal but the speed metal thing. Um. And the name of your company is at that time, it's called Talent Resource, but it changes after my partner and I kind of split up. Well before we get there, you get your hooked up with road Runner Record. Yeah, and I'm starting

to go out and I went to see a show. Uh, Venom Slayer at Exodus, and I think it was as Studio fifty four, and I'm watching this and to me, it's hardcore punk rock, except there's long hair and lead guitar solos, and and the solos were just very very fast,

not not tasteful at all. Um, but something was going on with it, and I was connected enough, and we had another We hired a young guy named Dean to work with us, and through the lawyer, he gets turned on to to to get a call with with Dave Mustain and we signed Meganeth and somehow Dave and I just became close and you know, but and he and I got along, so so we had that going. And my partner and I didn't see eye to eye on how to run the company. More so that like he

was real serious about it. Had the computer, We're doing projections, and and my attitude was, look, book dates, collect deposits, pay our bills, don't worry about anything until we bounce a check. Let's just move forward. Um. I'm not that great with numbers when it comes to stuff like that. My attitude was, Hey, if I don't bounce a check, I don't need to know how much money I have as long as I don't know people money. So we

split that up. We split up. I go to my apartment and start booking punk rock and speed metal bands and a few alternative bands. Arnie stays in business and he's doing the blues acts and some rock acts, and ultimately he ended up bailing. So I ended up getting the office back, and I had been what did he end up doing? You look, music business? He left, He left to do other stuff, and I ended up change

calling the company Bandwagon, and Bend started getting popular. I mean that you know, the Circle Jerks and GBH and the Exploited and you know Megadeath, Um Celtic, Frost Metal Church there. Wow, I'm putting dinner on the table for myself and and it was great. It was exciting and it was fun um and you know, ultimately, I kept

the Bandwagon rolling for about two or three years. And then he and Copeland calls, right, and so we talked, and yeah, sure, I'm gonna come back to FBI because Ian was great, is legend one of you know, he's a legendary and uh and also probably the best boss I ever had, just the most hospitable person in the world. And it was a great vibe up there, and I got to do my thing with with my clients, et cetera.

I got to meet other new people because they were so plugged in in a totally different avenue, in a different direction, but they weren't doing any any real modern hardcore music or or or metal. Um so I fit in.

They fit with me, and Ian was a great boss, and you know, getting a note Buck Williams and getting Rick Shore and and then John Ditmark came in, and you know, it was really really a good thing and that that brought us to and what happened in nineteen uh for nine, at the end of the year, um I got convinced to leave FBI and moved to California,

and so I did. And the company was it was called Triad Artists, which which got purchased by William Morris like two or three years after I moved out here, but I had already left there by the time that purchase came. And Triad was who who was working a Triad? Well I was you know, for me going there, it was you know, Peter gross Late and Mark geiger Um. But you know, a lot of a lot of agents that are out there in the world. Now we're part of you know, of of the Triad that I first

came into. And why did you leave Triad because Peter wanted me to well, you gotta go a little bit deeper, especially since Peterson I think, you know, I know, I think they had higher expectations of how much commission I could bring in then I actually brought in. So they

didn't renew my contract. Um, I was all set to do Bandwagon again because that was when I was sort of the happiest between their and FBI and the when when you're in the metal business and you're an independent especially in the eighties, and you're an independent agent and not as savvy as like the major players are, you

get poached a lot. And so I got poached big time by I c M. But I but at Triad, I did a package with with Mega Ethan some of their bands got and it was the first time I got to know Bill Elson, who was running I c M at the time. And uh, but it never dawned on me to to think about going there. And and a friend of mine is a manager manager of one of my acts, UM says you should go talk to Bill. And I remember going to talk to Bill, and it was literally the day after the Rodney King riots and

we're having breakfast at the Four Seasons. And the first thing he said to me, which got me going, because I'm an independent spirit in this all of this, was you know what, I'm sitting there with all this power, and there's a whole generation of new young promoters out there and managed and I don't know any of them, and I don't think my people know any of them. And I was really impressed with that. It's only because of the horror stories i'd heard about this guy and

what a terror he can be. And he was really smart, was really way smarter than me, and I said he and and I also knew that I would be isolated in the West Coast office, away from the main structure, and he never allowed booking to be out of the out of the West Coast office, and it's and it's a territorial thing. And I told him after that, if I come, I have to book. And if you're a territorial thing, I have to book a territory. I have to be part of that. But I have to be

able to book top to bottom. In other words, some agents it's like, oh I don't book clubs anymore. I don't do that. I don't have to do that. I needed to book top to bottom. I had a lot to learn about booking the top. I knew how to book the bottom really, really well. And I didn't want to give that up because I enjoy that. I enjoy

the development, and you know, it's less stressful. So he said, okay, and and then I was able to get you know, and he moved one of the agents from New York out to California, and I was able to bring my assistant, who I had had a triad. I convinced him to come over to I c M with me um and I was there for about I think I was there for six years. So it was good. Yeah, when you're assistant. It was a guy named Brian Greenbaum who's an agent now c A A somewhere like that. Yeah, it does well,

you said, A fascinating thing to be discussed. One seed, hees Paul Simon, Bob Dylan. He said, if the student doesn't exceed the teacher, you're a bad teacher, yea, or there's no progress. Okay. So there at I c M for six or seven years, then what happens um. Bill. There was a bunch of firings about five years into it. Among them was Bill Elson. Um, And uh, you know, I stayed through my contract and just realized I didn't I want to stay. UM. I don't know if they

wanted me to stay. It just never got to that I was gonna leave. Um. And once they realized I'm not going to stay, three months before the contracts up, they make me leave. So yeah, they I had to negotiate thing. I go, look, I'm going to work out the contract. Well, we're just gonna pay you, but you gotta leave. I go, no, but the contract says you'll put a roof over my head and pay for my assistant, etcetera, etcetera. So a little back and forth. They were the guy,

the lawyer there was really honorable to me. It was all fair and it was all good except and and by that time, you know, Brian had already left and he was starting his career at CIA. My assistant at the time was was Val Wolf, who had previously been Bryan's assistant after he got promoted. So I ended up leaving and I go, ship, I don't have a job, I don't have a place to work. I want to start bandwagon again, but like, I have to start it tomorrow.

And fortunately, um Rick Van Stanton and Paul Toilette, who are my friends, come over to the Golden Voice house. Golden Voice was located on Sunset Boulevard in like this house, right, We'll give you office space. Just come on over start your company. UM. So I went out. I bought a I bought a computer because I didn't have a computer of my own. You know, I think I bought like an It was before the Apple, before the G the

G three was whatever came before that. I don't know what it was, right, it was an Apple, of course. Um And I literally started my agency the next day. I started bandwagon the next day, working out a Golden Voice, got a p O box and got it going, got it started, um and I and the entire time from the time I started it, UM, I was never in I was never in the red. I was making a lot of money. I was literally never in the red.

And you know, ultimately I got an office on Melrose. Um. Once I had the office, Val Wolfe left, I c M came over and joined me. Our old intern from I c M. Melody King came over and joined us. She was going to be the office manager, but it was a three person operation, and I figured I might as well do this right, so I I got a business manager. I learned, oh, you gotta put up a bond, you gotta get a talent agency license, you gotta do all of this, which when I was bandwagon in New York,

I never had. Okay, so I hope. Fortunately there's a statute of limitations, so I don't know anybody, so I don't have to give anybody their commissions back. Um, but we ran it properly and right, and it stayed in the black and it was a lot of fun, and it was it was good, and it was good. And then around the turn of the century. Now it takes us to the turn of the century and Steve Martin and Neil Warnock wanted to open up the Agency Group in California and my kids were probably five six or

something and maybe less. Um. I don't want to do the math right now, but all of a sudden, I'm thinking I'm sitting there and it's my responsibility, besides paying the salaries, making sure that that everyone has health insurance, making sure we pay our taxes, I gotta look at the books half the time and stuff like that. I go, this seems like a good opportunity to not have to do that. As much as I like Bandwagon, but I would never have gone to a big company like that again.

It just I just this felt like Bandwagon meets FBI, and it'll just be me and about five people in a California office and they're already running in Toronto, London and New York. And it was also Steve Martin, who is one of my favorite people in the world. So we opened up the Agency Group's West Coast office. Um, it was basically myself, Val Melody, Dave Kirby who moved out from Agency Group in New York, and Andrew good Friend who moved out from Agency Group in New York.

And about three months later, Steve Martin hires Bruce Solar, who had his own company up in San Francisco, Absolute Artists, and Bruce came in. And I didn't know Bruce that well. Um, I couldn't do what I do now without having Bruce around and vice versa. I'd like to think, Um, and he's an amazing agent. Okay, So you're at Agency Group and then the Agency Group goes with changes you end up at a p A. So let's talk a little bit more about the business. You mean, are you are

the agent for Social Distortion? Okay? Do they have a manager? Uh? Yeah, they had a manager when I first started working with them back in New York when I was at FBI. The manager was Jim Gearno, who I knew as a promoter um at the time. But he's no. Do they have a manager now? Yes they do? Okay, So tell us what it's like. What are you what kind of discussions do you have and what kind of decisions do

you make with Social Distortion? I think you know, the manager, Shane Schueln and I, you know, we talked about you know, yeah, when are we when? When's this band going to make another record soon? Um? But the the whole thing is that this band has like this great fan base. You know, it came out of punk rock, but there's so much more than that to this band. UM to the point where we could play ont On country music festivals, um, as well as rock festivals as well as play punk

rock events. So I think I think it's really about maintaining you know, this is a band that doesn't put records out every three years. So, but they were a working band. They Fortunately, there's a lot of so many markets. I can call up and say Social Distortion and the promoter wants to do it. Okay, let's start from the beginning. You mentioned a record. How important is a new record at this point? Um, for a band like that, I think it's about relevance. It's about letting their fans know

there's still that they're relevant, they're still productive, etcetera. Now, Social Distortions fans don't have expectations of an album every once in a while. They have their expactations that there's gonna be time in between albums, but they also know that when the album comes out that it's not this one's a bummer. That's not going to happen, you know, I don't. I don't think Mike Ness would let that happen. Okay, So let's assume you're talking to the Meanderty. The band

is gonna work. How many dates a year does the band do? They do probably a hundred and fifty dates a year, anywhere between a hundred and twenty a hundred and fifty dates a year. They'll go out for two months, sometimes two and a half months at a time. But they do that, they can do that twice a year. So how far in advance of these tours booked? Um? Hopefully you know I'd like it to be, you know,

have a nice six months or longer plan. Um. Sometimes it's like I'm booking something on yeah, three months notice. I've I've had bands need me to do stuff for them on two months notice. Um, okay, well, let's just you know, use the example of social distortion. They come to you, they're gonna go on a three month tour. Let's assume they give you the six months notice. How do you just thought i'd wear rooms? Uh? Ticket price and all that ticket price? Um, we've inched up. We've

inched their ticket prices up. I and you know, ten years ago, ticket price wise, I probably underpriced them. Um, whether that was my own paranoia or just watching how things were starting to get out of hand in our business. I said, I don't want to be part of that, but I also don't want to eliminate the opportunity for the band to make as good a living as possible in an honorable way. So I think so we've inched

it up. We've inched it up. We're still very reasonable I think for the most part, we're averaging thirty set compared to the marketplace. It's very long, it's still it's reasonable. It's low, and it's reasonable. UM, and we'll keep going up. But I don't want to cross the line of unreasonable. Okay, but I'm coming and we're gonna go on a tour. How do you decide routing, venues, price, etcetera. UM, I basically try to estimate how many tickets can I sell

at this ticket price in this market. And let's let's say I say the number is two thousand, because I don't know what the plan is next year or the year after, etcetera. Other than the band's going to want to work. They and they get it when we all talk about it, I'll play the fifteen hundred to seventeen hundred seater. UM, leave something on the table. This we're not We usually on average don't spend a lot of money on support bands. The support bands are really great entertainment.

That that's a musical fit. We're always were thinking in about the Social Distortion audience when they get there. We want to make sure if there's two bands playing before Social d that that they're entertaining that audience. Okay, let's assume you're opening for sociality. How much you're gonna make, um, five hundred to three thousand dollars? Okay, So it's an opportunity as opposed to a profit making. Well, it's an opportunity.

But when when we see something that we really would want and and they're worth hundred but demanding two thousand, we'll pay it. It's for the integrity of the show itself from beginning to end. Okay. So let's assume you say, Okay, I think I can sell two thousand. I want to go to a fifteen hundred. How do you decide what cities and what buildings? Um? I look at where we've been. Um, when was the last time we played a market? Um?

How many markets did I skip? Like you know, on last year's tour, I had more flexibility because the tour before that didn't play New York, didn't play Boston, didn't play Chicago, didn't play Florida at all. This band can go out and play a lot of shows, and there's markets that are obvious. Most bands would need to have to play to get a national tour, get around the country in and out. We this band has enough markets where they're welcome that I can sometimes skip certain markets

on any given tour. So, you know, the other thing that we've done with it with with them a lot is they'll play multiples. They'll they'll go into a market you know where you know in Chicago instead of playing the Aragon Ballroom three nights at the House of Blues. Um. There's less wear and tear and travel. And when you're playing a smaller venue and you're not a band putting out records quite a lot um in a large venue,

the concert experiences different depending on where you're located. So, you know, you go play at the Aragon, you go play an arena, you know, you go play at the Shrine downtown l A. The two thousand people towards the front of the stage are getting a way different show

than the three thousand people behind them. So the the purpose of the multiples that's worked for for this band has been everyone in the back is getting the same show as the people in the front, because we want to ensure that after that when we come back a year later, no matter where we play or two years later, that they're coming back um, because we're not putting out product. So so they're not in the press all the time. We're not TV stars. Um, it's an ongoing business that

you know, the band celebrating at anniversary this year. Wow. So how do you just let's assume your your vision this you just call up the promoter out of the

blue and say, hey, you know, I want to work there? Um, sort of sort of and you know once you know, like like with any any agent, you know, because of the consolidation in the music business, when when any act that's in demand the minute the minute the agent calls Don Strasburg, all of a sudden, the A G Guy in the Midwest, the A G Guy in New York, the A G guys in Texas, they know something's going on and there's a band. This band is available no

matter you know. And that's not only for social distortion. I would think every agent you know gets incomings after they make their first call on a band that the marketplace likes to show love to. Okay, So let's assume you've got a promoter, you've got a building. How do you make a deal. Yes, for the expenses you ask for the building. I know what ticket price I wanted to Okay, Um, you know it's it's probably no different than for other agents. You you look at you look

at the promoter's expenses. Do they give those to you or you just oh, yeah, you have to have that. They they give you a list of the expenses that that are the expenses for running the show. Okay, Um, in some cases those are real expenses. In some cases those aren't. That you know, that's that's the nature of what goes on. And like I think promoters and agents have to take it all with a grain of salt and understand we all need to work with each other

to sustain our business. Um. It was a lot easier before the consolidation. Um. But I find you can have honest conversations, you know. I think depending on the act, you can have very honest conversations with them. You know.

It's in a case like you know, you know some bands, if you're playing for the promoter and the promoter is also the innkeeper, the person who's who's selling the audience, the beers, the builder who Yeah, exactly if the promoter is if you're selling to the promoter who owns the building, then I'll see all their expenses for running the show.

But the deal could very well be based on numbers that no longer work because you know, I know how much ahead you're gonna do at the bar at this show, So that factors in, you know, or at least as an agent representing an action factor that you know how much they're gonna do with the bar. Um, you don't really you know, you just know when it's gonna be the exact numbers. You don't know. Okay, So you say, okay,

we're gonna make a deal. They give you the expenses, Then what's the and you go through and you will how do you then get to the price? Um? They ultimately make an offer. So they make an offer, you're waiting for them to make it. They'll in in some cases they'll make an offer. In some cases they'll ask how much do you want? And like, you know, if I want ten dollars, I'll tell them I want twelve

dollars and see what they come back with. But ultimately, I mean for me and the way the way I do business and and the way I've always done it with with most of my clients and and with social distortion, is I want to make my band top dollar. Um. I want to make sure that the gig is good I want to make sure that that I'm putting them in a place where the audience is going to have a great time. And but I also even if if the promoter ends up paying whatever they're paying, I want

them to feel good about it. You know. It's it's a luxury with a band like this that does so well consistently for so many years that they get paid and the promoters comfortable paying them that, and they always come back they want more. So, Uh, how do you decide on ticket fees like the Ticketmaster convenience charges, etcetera. You look at them and you ask for them, and and I think some companies in including Ticketmaster, you know you can. You can talk to them and and they'll

show you flexibility. They will show some flexibility. Um, if you take the time to talk about it, give them your reasons why, give them their reasons why they should Um, I've been pretty successful with that. Well, let's just assume you're you're gonna make a deal. They've offered a price. Ticket sales are gonna be forty dollars and is then

what might you say relative to the fees? Um. I've had situations where you know, at thirty five dollar tickets they've come back to me with in this city it's ten fifty I go on a thirty five dollar ticket, right, But I've but I've also when I've looked at an overall tour and look in some cases, you know, because of consolidation, the odds are if you're out there playing major markets, half of your dates are really playing for the same company that just so happens to own the

ticketing company. Right. Um And you have to make them feel that that we're all in this together, we're partners. I want you to make money on your show. You know, I appreciate the service of being able to buy a ticket online that you deserve to be paid for it. I also know that I've cut a deal with your

local promoter who's very happy. Um. But if part of his happiness is like he's gouging the audience member for a little extra buck, I go, I don't you know some artists will get that and go, I want you to pay the band that extra buck out of the out of it. What I'll do is say, I want you to make that buck go away and not charge my audience for it. Um. And And you know what you do enough ongoing business with people and you get relationships going and you're a straight shooter. You you know

you're a straight shooter. Um. They get to know you and like you. I try to be liked. Some people don't like me, but most do. Um. And you know from that, from that end you can find a comfort zone. Let's be clear, to make a deal with the promoter, the promoter does not decide the fee. Well, the promoter that the promoters, you know, if it's Ticketmaster, if it's Live Nation Dates, you know, they know there. They have a grid. They know on a thirty five dollar ticket,

the convenience charges this, um boy. They used to have order charges that went away um on a and anywhere between thirty five and thirty nine fifty. It's this. The minute you go over thirty nine fifty, it goes up by this amount, etcetera, etcetera. I you know, I don't know the exact numbers right now. I'm not prepared to answer that question, you know, but you can can still

talk to them and say I'm not comfortable with that. Okay. Now, in the old days, it was always a guarantee against commission. Now most of the fees are up front. So how do you structure the deal. You just basically say, well, you know, I'm gonna get X number of dollars? Is there? Do they You ever go into percentages, percentage not putting you do you? You sometimes will work on bonuses outside the deal. Um. And you know it depends on the act.

You know. Um. You know, for the most part, if you know the date's going to sell out, the promoter knows that date's going to sell out, whether the guarantee is sell out money or not, you want to make the deal versus a percentage of the net if if you think that date it's going to sell out, and it's an act you're developing, right, I'm okay to do a promoter profit deal with with with a promoter because hey, I want to show that promoter light at the end of the tunnel. I want him to see he can

make money with my client. Um, because I want to ensure that he puts the energy into the show that gets my client there. Ultimately, if it's a new young band and we're building it or it's a band on its way, you know, sometimes I'll show the promoter some light at the end of the tunnel. When you say a promoter profit deal. Okay, so you have you know, you know what the expense the show's costs are, the show's costs. Um. You add the show's costs to the promoter,

you know, advertising, rent, what have have you. You add the band's guaranteed to it. Add those all up, you come to a number, all right, and that number is usually under well well under what the gross is when the show sells out. So you look at that number, you establish what of everything he just invested is right? As soon as that number is is in the bank at the box office, he gets up to what would

be every dollar that comes in the box office. Once he's achieved that percentage, then the rest is split, whether seventy thirty eight, then it's always split in the artist's favor. Let's just speak here. Let's just say costs or thirty grand. So on the first thirty grand he gets how much of course to thirty grand, Um, you of that, okay,

but fifteen percent would not cover his costs. Now, his costs are covered if that If that thirty grand, which is saying maybe fifteen Let's say that thirty grand reflects in costs to run the show and five thousand dollar guarantee for the band. There's the thirty grand. Okay, he starts collecting money the minute thirty thousand and one dollar comes into the box office and he gets gets it up to whatever would be just a little bit sore. I'm the first going to do math first, the first

thirty thousand, does he get all of that money back? Well? That well, he uses that money to pay the band, and he uses that money to pay off the costs of having run the show. That's not money in his pocket yet. That's why to show him that he can make some money, he gets that promoter profit, he gets fifteen after he hits thirty correct, he gets fifteen cent of what of of his investment of thirty thousand? Is?

I see? And then the split goes beyond that. Then the split goes beyond that, and hopefully he's making more money in the band's making more money. Obviously, if you know it's a slam dunk sellout change, then then you calculate different and you cut a different kind of deal. So normally an agent charges ten. We hear about all these acts who pay less. What's going on with that? That started? Like you know years ago? It's so competitive?

Um I charged ten Um, I've lost bands because of that. Um, so if I'm doing but I was naive, No, I was. You know, I'm not gonna say band names, you know. But the band that wanted the deal, I said, you you know at the time, they were threatening to go take meetings with other agents, and I just said, look, you decide you're going to stay with me, I'll go talk to my boss and see if we can do a commission deal. But you decide you want to stay

with me because I've done a good job. Um, that band went away and there they have an agent that charges less. That's all. Now, I think it's really about you know, it's certainly big bands. You know. It's like, listen, you're as big as the Rolling Stones. You don't need an agent. You know, you're an act that consistently plays arena. There's plenty of money to go around and plenty of agents that are going to do it for less than

ten percent. Um. Yeah, if I get a call by a big arena band that I'm google over and I love, and you know, I know where they're gonna play, I know what size venues I'm going to book them in, and they're only willing to pay you know, five or less than that or what have you. I'm not going to say no, that's the real world, that's how it all, that's how it works right now, you know, And does an agent that can does an agent does an act that consistently solve arenas? Do they need an agent? Everybody

needs an agent? Convince me why protecting my profession? You know what, The Rolling Stones don't need an agent. Um. They have people that do the bits and pieces, people who do what an agent, what an agent would do, and and they've chosen to do it that way. I mean, how hard is it to book the Rolling Stones? You deal with one promoter. They've been a one promoter band for forty years. So if anybody is like making an overall deal with Live Nation reg and they're selling Marina's,

do they need an agent? Well? I think that was when the consolidation started, the SFX days, etcetera. I think a lot of agents really felt that this was a threat, that that the promoter, the national promoter, can provide an entire tour and they're gonna go to bands direct um. And well, in some cases they do go to bands direct um. People at very at whether it's at Live nation a e g. Or what have? You have relationships

with managers, have relationships with agents, etcetera. And you know, I think the agents just need to not be paranoid. Promoters are gonna have relationships with the managers. You know, you don't get Oh, you're not allowed to call my manager. It has to go through me. Um. Those days are long gone. UM. And you know any agent that gets too paranoid about that, they're just too paranoid. And what about poaching, Um, it's part of it's part of the business.

Some some actively do it or act if lee taught to do it. You know what, it's not against the rules, so you don't get kicked out of the league for doing it, or you don't get suspended for like a few months. Um. I think some you know a lot do and then there are some that don't. Have you ever a poached an act? No? Um. Have I gotten calls from acts that are with other agents saying, hey, we're looking to make a change, we're not happy, etcetera. The first thing I ask is, tell me why you're unhappy.

Let me see the job that this guy did. Um, And I'll look at it. Um. In some cases, I'll say I don't know why you're changing agents. This guy did a good job. Um, but you know what, I'll also know, Hey, he's convinced he's going to change anyway. So if he's offering it to me instead of offering it to the guy down the street, you know, I'll

take it on if it's something I want. But I don't actively you know, any relationship I maintain with a manager that of bands I don't represent, it's not for the purpose of like getting so close that I can like start making him love me so much that he'll pull an act from another agent. You never have people try to poach your acts right in front of you. M Hm. You know what. Look, you know what most

of the acts I represent, if they're making me money. Now, I made calls to get them door deals and get them five hundred dollars a night. Yeah, you know. I booked door deals on social d I booked five hundred dollar megadeath dates. I booked five hundred dollar Green Day dates. Um. You know, it's just the nature of the bands grow on trees, do they really? There's just so many, you know,

I think, you know what. I tend to say that when when I see some of our younger agents lose acts and their heartbroken, you know, and and it's heartbreaking. You know. You get relationships, you have clients you love working for, your passionate about the music, you're excited about. I'm going to be successful doing this. This was my dream. And a client fires you nine out of ten times it's because they wrote bad songs and people aren't coming. But they gotta make a change. I gotta fix something,

you know. And sometimes it's the agent. And I used to say that to to younger agents. Um, they get fired by a band, I go, so you're gonna give up? Or go get a new band? They grow on trees. Okay, let's assume you're one of these bands growing on trees. How do you get an agent? I think an agent kind will ultimately discover it. Right now, there's so many. I mean, our young agents are on YouTube, are on Spotify all day, discovering, discovering on Spotify, they get to

see the analytics, etcetera. Um, and if their musically taken, whether they're noticing it because the analytics are great, or they're noticing it because well, this music is exciting me and I really dig it. Um it's from that point where they'll go and approach and reach out to the band, and the young guys will sometimes ask, you know, for the senior guys in the office, can you be helpful, can you help us take a meeting? UM? And that's where you find bands UM. At least that's the way

I'm seeing it happen. And I see our young guys are fortifying relationships with like the new people that are the powers that be UM, you know, because it's it's changed since I was I was the young agent going after bands, and you know, i'd go over to the major labels and schmooze the A and R guys and talk to them and get to know as many of the the marketing people and product managers as I could so that when they're A and R guys signed a new band, I'm on their radar as for a call

UM and I would do that. I don't think I was ever very very good at at that. I just knew that ultimately if I took on a band, I could be good for them. But I also know that there were bands that like I would never shot at getting UM. And you know what, because I think at the schmooze and at the working it. I think there's a lot of agents that do that better than me. And so what is it that you do better than

they do the actual job of agent? Ng Um, I'm not saying I'm yeah, I know I do it good, UM, and I think there's a lot of people out there that do it good. UM. I think I'm very attentive. And that's just because when you're it comes from when you're competing with real people in the real music business and you're sitting in your apartment booking circle Jerk's Megadeath and GBH. I've got nothing other than to make sure

that I'm doing a better job than anybody could possibly do. Um. You know there are agents with you Jack's at the big fancy companies, you know, that actually can do a just okay job and get away with it. You know. But I've always kind of been either an underdog or with companies that were underdogs. Not that I CM or Triad were underdogs UM or anywhere I've worked, but you know, I've just always felt that, like you know, like I said, I never worked at W M E or c A A.

You know, those are great agencies. There's you know, you can't deny success. When something is successful, you can't look at those rosters and not say there's a hell of a lot of great artists and great music over there. Um. But I also think it's it's large. It's just very big, way too big, you know for me, um and I think the larger a company. Look, every agency has great agents,

has okay agents, etcetera, etcetera. You know. Fortunately for me, I thought when we were when we had the Agency Group, which was a smaller company in its own way compared to those we didn't have full service, we didn't have film, television or anything, that was the greatest group of agents that were passionate about music, all under one roof, even though under three roofs, four roofs um where the quality of work was just excellent, it was just it was

just that's what it was. There were the percentage of people doing not a great job was way lower there than anywhere else I've ever been. On that note, I think we've covered it. We've covered Andy's history Agent in Today, and of course there are million more questions, but we can't go on forever. Andie Summer's thanks so much for coming on the podcast. It was a pleasure being. If we talk about skiing next time, absolutely, you know I would.

I prefer to talk about skiing, so okay, talking about skiing. You ever feel there come a day that you won't be able to do it? I know, we want to think about that. I was skiing with the guy with a whistler who's seventy seven, who could ski the bumps faster than I could. In terms of not having to stop. It was just unbelievable. Okay, we'll talk the rest of this off. We will. Let's see you on the chair lift. Okay, thank you. Thanks, that's time. It's been The Bob Left Sets Podcast