Cara North 0:00
But if you are hungry, and you're constantly learning and trying new things, I want to work with you all day long over somebody who basically earned a piece of paper and thinks they're done learning.
Heidi Kirby 0:16
Hello friends! Welcome to the BLOC, the building learning and organizational culture podcast. I’m your host, Heidi Kirby. On this episode, we have Cara North, who is Operations Training Manager of Silfex in Columbus, Ohio. We talk about how to create your professional brand on social media and some of the benefits of pursuing graduate education in learning and development. This episode is particularly special to me because I have been connected with Cara on LinkedIn for a few years and considered her a tremendous example of how people in the field should promote themselves and others, and this is the first time we were able to virtually meet. So, I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did after a brief word from our sponsor, Verasana.
Verasana Narrator 1:05
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Heidi Kirby 1:36
Hi Cara, how are you?
Cara North 1:37
Hey, Heidi.
Heidi Kirby 1:38
So let's just get right into it, and I will ask you just to give me a brief biography.
Cara North 1:48
Sure, so like many people I'm an accidental instructional designer. I actually went to school for journalism and loved learning about - kind of - media production... radio - that's kind of what I wanted to do, but I actually graduated undergrad in a recession. There was no jobs anywhere, so what I did was what a lot of people my age did - I moved back home, moved back in with my parents, and they actually had a newspaper subscription that had a "wanted - jobs wanted" ad for open interviews for a call center. Thought about it, and I think anything beats zero dollars an hour so I went for that job interview and got the job and absolutely hated it. No kid straight out of undergrad wants to go work in a call center, but call centers build character. There's a lot of interesting folks that work at call centers, but I worked there for a few months, and they said, "hey, you seem to be somewhat professional and you can fog a mirror, would you like to be promoted?" It wasn't quite like that, but in my head that's kind of what it was because I was super young, I didn't know. It was like my first real job, if you want to call it that. So, in that role, a very small part of that role was training new people coming in about the procedures in the call center for quality, right? And I was so nervous. I had no idea what I was doing. I asked about like what I needed to go over. There was little guidance - I got to be like really creative, and I loved it. After my first session - I'm sure it was horrible - I went home. I told my parents that's what I want to do the rest of my life is "I love training," like if this is a job, I want to do this. And they said "okay, whatever." So I ended up working there for about another year. At the same time, Amazon was in the same town I was in. They'd opened a brand new huge customer service center. So, when it opened, all of our best associates who worked there, left to go to Amazon, and Amazon had a nice recruiting bonus at the time. They said, "hey, are you all looking for a trainer? There's somebody over this other center, her name's Cara. You all should get her." So Amazon reached out to me and recruited me, and I came over to Amazon. So, I worked primarily in Kindle and did customer service support for it, did some training, did a little bit of everything at Amazon. Until one day, I asked my manager about our content because what we were getting was from corporate, and some of it just didn't cut what we needed for objections with customers on the phone. And I basically asked my boss "who writes this?" He's like, "oh that's the instructional design team, and we're actually gonna have an opening here is that something you want to do? " "Sure." And so that's how i became an instructional designer at Amazon. So, did that, worked with a great team - really had a blast, and then I fell in love with a guy in a different state and ended up moving to Columbus, Ohio. And when I moved here, I was like - I didn't know again that this was a career path. I had, you know at that time, about five years of experience under my belt. So, I was looking for jobs. I was looking for a corporate environment, but then I had a job interview at The Ohio State University to manage their call center. And one of the questions that I asked at the interview is like you know, "what are the benefits of the company?" and they were very direct by saying, "Well, one of the best benefits of working in a university is free tuition." And that's all it took for me. And so I took the job at Ohio State. I immediately got registered and signed in and got a master's degree in adult education and got that done fast. I mean I flew through that because I was so excited I was like, "Free school? This is amazing!" And then I was like "hey, do you all pay for PhDs?" and they're like, "yeah, we'll pay for that too." Sold! So, I am currently a PhD candidate, and learning technologies, and so I defended - did my candidacy and all of that. So currently, I'm working on my dissertation, but I actually left the university in May of this year. And I went back to a corporate environment, and today I'm a Training Operations Manager for a large semiconductor manufacturing company.
Heidi Kirby 5:50
Awesome. That's great. Let me ask you a fun question. What is the name of a song that has been stuck in your head lately?
Cara North 6:03
Oh, easy. X by the Jonas Brothers.
Heidi Kirby 6:06
Okay, I haven't heard that one. Is it new?
Cara North 6:08
Oh you need to. Yeah, so it's one of their newer songs. So, my heart was so happy that they got back together. I love the Jonas Brothers. Nick Jonas is one of my biggest celebrity crushes. I have loved him like forever, and I love to see them winning and doing good because I just generally - again, you always think like celebrities are good people, but I legitimately think that they're good people. So, I always like to root for good people.
Heidi Kirby 6:33
That's awesome. I just heard Burnin' Up on the radio today. (laughs) So, funny you mentioned that. So I want to ask you - because I see you all the time on my LinkedIn feed - about this idea of professional branding, because the show is really about how to create a learning culture at an organization, but that really starts with the learning and development team, you know. And I think you are someone who's done a great job of being active on LinkedIn, of connecting with people in the field, of promoting people in the field. And so I would just like kind of your your feedback of like, what do you do to become good at that?
Cara North 7:23
Interesting question. I think it ended up. The reason I started taking it so seriously, is you know when I was at Amazon. I was very well supported. I was part of a huge team - a global team - like there were people all over the world that I dealt with and I had a really close relationship with. I go from that to a team of two when I start working at Ohio State. And so I found out very quickly that I had kind of taken for granted this external networking because I was so fortunate with what I had when I was there at Amazon. So I learned very quickly I needed to do something because I felt lost, and I really struggled - like my first year. So when I moved to Columbus, I really didn't really feel like I fit in - I was really struggling. So I ended up - there's a guy, his name is Mike Taylor, and he's here in Columbus, and I went to a session that he did in our local ATD chapter, talking about how to use social media to kind of build your brand and use it for learning. And he sold me in that session, and so I signed up for Twitter that day in his session, and I think he was my first follower on Twitter. And then I started just in the past year to really started to focus more on LinkedIn because my Twitter has been more - I do have a lot of learning and development people in there, but it's also like me as a person. So, I love the Carolina Panthers, so I follow other Carolina Panthers people. I play video games, Animal Crossing, Apex Legends, etc. So a lot of video game stuff on Twitter as well. But for LinkedIn, it's like me as a learning development professional but with that being said, I still feel like I can be myself. So yeah, very simply, I mean, this is the way I look at it it. When you meet somebody and you talk to them, but I don't know about you and maybe I'm just a creep but I Google people.
Heidi Kirby 9:13
(laughs) Oh no, I do too.
Cara North
And so, my thing is, if you don't want a digital footprint, that's fine, but you're going to have it anyway. Why do you not want to control that narrative of what people see and say about you? So that's why I think it's so important to build your own brand as just an individual because that way, you can control and spin that and share what makes you you, right?
Heidi Kirby 9:39
Sure, yeah. you also post the hot instructional design jobs every morning. What made you decide to do that?
Cara North 9:49
Oh, that's a great question. So I actually - right before Memorial Day, I don't know what was in the water that week but I - no joke, not exaggerating at all - more than 100 people reached out to me and just that week saying, "I want to be an instructional designer... I've lost my job - I need a job" or, you know, some variation of that. And so I did two things: one, I did this crazy like 10-hour livestream over Memorial Day weekend, just showing the entire instructional design process from start to finish. I had 250 people sign up for it, which was insane. And the platform I use, I had to pay for more seats, so I got several people, "I want in - I want in." I said, "I'm sorry, like I'm donating my time. I'm not wanting to give my money as well." So, you know,that was nuts, but then I was like, "You know, I want to do more - I also don't want to live stream every night.: So I was like, "What's something I can do that's just like little and easy to do?" So I basically go through Indeed, LinkedIn, and now people send me jobs. So I post at least 10 jobs every weekday that I curate and I basically look for, you know, does it look like this organization has their poop in the group, right? When it comes to learning and development. I think this is a viable option for people, and I like to post some for entry level, maybe transitioning teachers, you know, mid-level. I don't really post a whole lot of like director positions, but I just thought that was something real small that takes maybe five or 10 minutes of my time, and I use a tool called Buffer to actually schedule my social media. So actually, I already have it scheduled for tomorrow automatically post at 8 a.m., and so I'm not on social media all the time. People think I'm on there all the time because I'm posting. I promise you, my tool is doing it for me. I do have a day job.
Heidi Kirby 11:38
(laughs) That's great. Yeah, I was definitely like "man, she's on here all the time. How does she do it?" (laughs)
Cara North 11:46
No, I mean, I am on there occasionally, of course. Yeah, I'm not on there all the time. I mean even at 8 am, you know, I'm probably already in meetings for work for the day.
Heidi Kirby 11:55
So tell me a little bit more about this live stream because now that you mentioned it, I definitely remember hearing about it. And last minute I think - going "hey, maybe I'll sign up and check this out" and like it was sold out, right?
Cara North 12:13
Yeah. So, to the point of like all these people reaching out, I thought "well, you know what? I have a Crowdcast account. I could just like maybe stream" And because - I think a big gap and we may be talking about this here in a minute - from like a formal instructional design education to real world is you read about it, and it just sounds like it's such a beautiful, clean, linear process, right? And I think that's why so many people struggle in their first ID job because they're like, "I read that this is supposed to be this way," and it's like, "Nah, like we're five steps down the road, you got to be adaptable to go along." So I thought, you know this might be something that just people need to see - kind of demystify it, right? So, originally I put it up there. I shared it on LinkedIn. I thought - I put like 100 seats. In like less than a day, it was already sold out. Sold out, meaning people taking it, and all these people, "I want in. I want in. I want in." So then I went up and upgraded my next level, which I think cost me about 50 bucks out of pocket. And then I said, "Okay, I opened up 150 more seats." And then it was completely full in less than a day too. And I was like, "oh my gosh." So then, so then again. This was totally like on a whim. I didn't have anything prepared. So here I'm like, "Oh, snap I need to do something." So like the day... that night I stayed up to like 2 am, trying to build something - figure out. So basically I started with, I went to Kristin Anthony's Go Design Something - pulled a prompt out. And so like, the first session I focused a lot on, you know, what questions do you ask - how do you do a kickoff meeting, you know, how do you scope a project. My second session was, okay, how do you storyboard this out? And so we had a fake script that I wrote and then I let them kind of write a script to the prompt. The third session, I had my friend Alex Salas come on, and basically show people how to use Camtasia, and we built out, according to the script, a video to go along with it. Plus I got two of my VO friends, Josh Risser and David Gilbert, to do professional voiceover of the script. So - and I gave all these assets away for free to give people access. And then, the last session I had Nyla Spooner come on, and we talked about quality assurance and evaluation. So, all in - it was like 10 hours. It was crazy. I did have two other people come on so, Toddi Norum and Jack Hutchinson helped me because I thought, oh I got this because I've streamed before. But the chat was like chhhh (sound denoting multiple notifications), all the time and then I, of course, had technology issues so I had to reboot and come back in and out a couple of times. So then I have them - kind of like my backup for that, but yeah it was a wild experience. I did have to boot some trolls - that was really interesting.
Heidi Kirby 14:56
Really?
Cara North 14:57
Oh yeah. I got called a bunch of names on LinkedIn because I didn't let people in for things. People are just, you know, not the nicest sometimes, but overall it was a it was a fun experience.
Heidi Kirby 15:09
So, was it full when you actually did the livestream, or was it people who like signed up and then kind of ghosted and forgot about it or whatever?
Cara North 15:18
So that's a great question. My first day that I did it, out of the 250, because it told me how many were logged in... there were over 200 people that were there live.
Heidi Kirby 15:27
Wow.
Cara North 15:28
And they were from all over the world too. It blew my mind. I mean it was like 3 am, I think, in, you know, in India, and we have people from India on there - like in the middle of the night. I'm like, "what? Watch the recording. It's okay."
Heidi Kirby 15:43
That's great though. I don't know if I would want that audience, live, right? Like, I'm hoping that more than 250 people listen to this episode of this podcast, but I don't know if I would want to do it live, designing instruction, like that's - Oh man, that's nerve racking to even think about it. (laughs)
Cara North 16:04
But you know, it was so fun. I mean, I just, I just basically said, "Listen, this is free, because I'm doing this because so many people have invested time and effort into me. All I ask is that you pay it forward to someone else when you have time to do so." And it was fun. I tried to make it as relaxed as possible. Watching it back though, there are some cringeworthy moments, and I actually - if you're looking for the recordings, you're probably not going to find them and here's why. I was very, very unfiltered in it. So, people asked me questions, "What was it like working here or what was it like being a higher ed ID? I just told them straight up what to expect. So because of that, I don't want that out there, you know, because I wanted that to be like more of a kind of private, well as private as it could be. I also wanted to be candid right, I didn't want to, like, you know...
Heidi Kirby 16:57
You wanted it to be real for the people who are - just so they know what to expect. Yeah, no that totally makes sense. So, like myself, you are pursuing a PhD in what is it technically at OSU? Learning...
Cara North 17:12
Learning Technologies.
Heidi Kirby 17:14
Okay Learning Technologies. But essentially instructional design, learning and development. Same diff, right? What I would like to kind of pick your brain about a little bit is why you chose to pursue a PhD? And, you know, do you think that it's necessary for instructional designers to have? We'll start there.
Cara North 17:39
Okay. The reason I wanted to do is two fold. When I started the program, I did actually = for maybe almost a year - I thought I wanted to be a professor. I love helping people. And I'm a first generation college student, and I thought that, you know, maybe if I could become a professor maybe I could help other people like me, right? That changed rapidly. After, again you have to remember I was also a full time staff member in the college that I was taking classes from, so after sitting there and, for lack of better word - seeingg how the sausage was made, and I don't know how you feel about this Heidi, but, hands down - higher ed has been the weirdest place I've ever worked.
Heidi Kirby 18:25
(laughs) I don't have that same opinion, I think because it was like - my first real job was in higher ed, but I could definitely understand how you would say that, and I definitely - after going corporate would not go back, let's put it that way.
Cara North 18:48
Same, but I think the reason it was so weird for me was, at least, where I sat, there was a huge rift and dichotomy between if you are a faculty and you're a staff member, and there was this - not everybody, but you have to keep it real. A lot of incivility that I feel like would not be tolerated in a corporate environment, a lot of - lack of accountability, I would not feel like would be tolerated in a corporate environment, and to me, the people who thrived in the institution I worked in oftentimes were people that I don't think would be in their positions in a corporate environment, we'll put it that way.
Heidi Kirby 19:30
Sure. Yeah, well, and I think my experience was probably pretty different, now that I'm thinking about it a little bit more, because I was an adjunct faculty member, so I would come in, teach a class, and leave. I had little to no interaction with other faculty members, so that probably was a big part of it too.
Cara North 19:50
Yeah, to your question about do I think that instructional designers need it? Here's the scoop. If you want to work in higher education, I feel like they put much more value on those credentials. So, again, it makes sense because I mean, what business are they in? Exactly. So a lot of times, you will see a lot of those postings ask for a Masters, or I've even seen them ask for the PhD, but, you know, where I'm at now as a hiring manager, I don't care where someone went to school, I don't care their - even their education level. I just care about their skills, and I think that if you really want to be successful in this profession, you have to own that professional development, you have to you have to learn, grow yourself. That's something I can't necessarily teach somebody how to do, but if you are hungry, and you're constantly learning and try new things, I want to work with you all day long over somebody who basically earned a piece of paper and thinks they're done learning, you know?
Heidi Kirby 20:51
Absolutely. Yeah. And for me, I've kind of always just wanted to get my PhD because school is something I'm actually good at, you know, I wasn't good at sports. I'm like, you know, I'm good at school, I'll just keep going forever, right? But also, my endgame was always, I want to be a leader in the field, like I want to be a leader in L&D, and if I'm going to do that - especially as a woman - as a female. I want to have that extra oomph of credentials behind me that, you know, I'm not just Heidi Kirby, I'm Dr. Kirby, and I know a ton about this field, right? So for me, that's, that's where it's at, but I'm with you - I don't think it's necessary. If you had to pick a few benefits of having your PhD, what what would you say are some of the benefits of pursuing the degree?
Cara North 21:44
Hmm. Okay, a couple things. One, you have a good theoretical lens. So, I do think that formal education in instructional design really kills it at giving you a good, like, overview of the various theories, how we learn, who are some of the names, you know, what does all this look like? I think it does a great job at that. And I know, again, even though I had prior experience, that was something I didn't know a lot about. So I'm very thankful that I have that, too. I think it's made me very analytical and critical of various claims - so, I'm definitely not a amazing researcher, but I do think about various things when I'm looking at papers, like you know, well, what was the sample size of this like, what's the significance, what does this actually matter? So, I think that that helps, but three - I think that it's also great that, again, to the point are you invested in yourself and you know having those letters after your name - I love the fact that Dr. North just sounds like an evil villain. (laughs) Most people are still going to call me, call me Cara - I mean I'm not that person, but I just think that, you know, it really isn't - PHD really isn't saying that you're smarter than anybody, to me, it is just basically, it's basically like you did it, and it is a testament to your tenacity, and there's really something endearing about that, and I also think that it's like a club that, you know, once you go through it there's kind of like this little scar that you know, "you made it." You know, so I think that those are some of the benefits I think I would say. What about you, what do you think?
Heidi Kirby 23:33
I really think to your point about the theoretical foundations, you know, I think that one of the things that having that degree does is it helps us to understand what works and what doesn't, in a way that I'm not sure other people would be able to just glean from, you know, Google... who's saying that we have the attention span of a goldfish or that my learning style is "super fun awesome cool," you know, and so I think it gives us a little more more grounding, right? In that theory and history too, right? As much as not everyone is interested in that part of it, it is good to know where the field started, where it's been, and kind of be able to see a path forward. I also think that, for me personally, being in a PhD program has given me, just like this much smidge of an edge over competition in job interviews. So, my transition went from teaching college to working as an instructional designer for NASA. And I feel like because I was in a PhD program, that's what helped me make that transition, not saying that that's necessary, but in my case, it's been that extra people have taken an extra interest in the fact that I'm pursuing my PhD. So they've hired me and that's happened for pretty much every instructional design job I've had so far in my career, which is four now. That it's, "oh so you're a PHD, A. you're really serious about this and B. you obviously know what you're talking about, right?
Cara North 25:29
Yeah, that's interesting. I would actually say the opposite. One of the last things I tell people is I'm pursuing a PhD. I want them to kind of characterize me on my body of work, and you know, how I present myself and what I do. And then, you know, to me that's like kind of the bottom of the list but that's really interesting. I could definetely see that though.
Heidi Kirby 25:47
Yeah, it's just like the all the hiring managers that I've worked with that then became my managers were like, "Oh, I was really interested in your PhD work," you know?
Cara North 25:58
That's cool.
Heidi Kirby 25:59
Yeah. So can you tell me a little bit about your research interests.
Cara North 26:06
Sure. So, I think that's a very tough thing to go through. I know how I felt, at least in my first class that I had in my PhD. They had us go around introduce ourselves and talk a little bit about what we want to research, and I was sitting there and I'm not kidding you, I usually don't get that nervous, but I was like shaking I was like "Oh crap, what am I going to say, you know?" and hear all these like well-thought-out you know, "I'm looking about Pan-Africanism," and you know, all this stuff it's, to me, and I'm like, "Hi, I'm Cara, and I'm learning technologies, and I'm going to research instructional design," and it just went on, you know and I was like, - and then I'm like looking around seeing if I'm getting any side eye from people, looking around at the rest of the people, they had this panicked look too. So I think that they were all kind of in the same boat as me but they don't act like it. So, I knew I want to do something with instructional design, obviously... my advisor has done a lot of work in motivation, and specifically the motivation he's interested in is like K through 12. I've learned a lot from his research he has about, you know, motivation, and I knew I wanted to do something along those lines. And I met this guy, his name's Jonathan Hill - he lives in England, and he had become a friend of mine, and he started doing these Articulate E-learning Heroes challenges, and he did it as like a working out loud exercise, and I did a couple like back a few years ago, and I enjoyed doing them. And he would tell me these stories about, you know, I posted this and then this person said this and so I just went in, I started to creep and lurk, and look at you know what, like there's something here. There are people that are so excited for each one of these Articulate E-learning Hero challenges to draw people that just bust their butts and make these super creative things and, you know, I was like, I'm still kind of on the fence, but then my last class that I had before my candidacy exam was a qualitative research class. And so I asked my professors, I said, can I like kind of pilot what I think I want to do my dissertation on, just to see if there's anything there, he's like "yeah." And so he's like, "What do you want to do?" And I told him and of course he was just like, what, like, you know, but he wasn't quite there. And so like I did these pilot interviews and I found these like really interesting connections and why are people motivated is several things like some people get money from I mean it's a part of their business plan, by putting these out there they get business opportunities. Some people basically come to work like hey, you're going to use storyline today figure it out and then then go through the challenges and teach themselves. Some people just like to kind of dip in and out, just to get different pieces to kind of make their toolbox a little bit bigger. So I was like, you know, I think there's something here so I gave it back to my professor, and he was like, "this is pretty cool." I was like, "Alright, we're done." So that's what I'm doing my dissertation on, so I am doing basically motivational profiles of the composition of the Articulate E-earning Heroes Challenge community. So, what makes people participate in it, and it's so interesting and vast, but I mean one thing's for sure, I don't think that when Articulate made it that that was kind of their intention, but I mean it's really made a big impact on a lot of instructional designers.
Heidi Kirby 29:42
Yeah. Could you just give me a brief synopsis for anybody who is not familiar with E-learning Heroes?
Cara North 29:49
Oh, sure. So Articulate is a software that a lot of instructional designers use to create learning experiences. So every week, on their company website, they have a forum and this is open, so anybody can go to this. I don't even think you have to make an account to see these - they post these different little design challenges. So, one week it might be like, build a design using the color blue somewhere, or it might be something, you know, themed like make a jack o' lantern learning experience, and some might be tool-specific, like let's build different panels of your learning experiences. So it's a little bit mix of theme little bit mix of the tools, and it's really amazing that just one prompt - I've never seen anybody repeat each other - like they always have different variations and so what I love about it is, and you know this Heidi, in our day to day, a lot of times we have so many constraints. And we're like, "man, I'd really love to build this this way, but gosh darn it, I can't because my budget is too low or my calendars not long enough" or whatever. I feel like this is like the fantasyland of building something - like you're really testing the limits of your own imagination - the imagination of the tool, and I think that's why it's been so popular. The nice thing too is these, these prompts are so broad, you don't even have to use Articulate software. I've actually seen people submit things that are not in Articulate - like they use Plotagon or Vyond or all these other tools. It doesn't mean you have to use Articulate Storyline for these, so I always tell people, especially if you're looking to build a portfolio, go to this website and get you can get a lot of great ideas on prompts on what you can build for your portfolio.
Heidi Kirby 31:28
Yeah, it's a great website for just that - building your portfolio, especially if you're brand new. And actually, our last guest, Jeremy, also mentioned it as a great resource for instructional designers who are transitioning from - wherever else - into instructional design - so very cool.
Heidi Kirby 31:51
The last question for you is, if you had to pick one book - movie - YouTube video - Ted Talk - PDF handout - you get the idea, that you would suggest all people who are considering instructional design consume, what would it be and why?
Cara North 32:17
Wow. There are so many out there. All right, I will go back to my heart. So the very first instructional design book I ever received, and I got it from my manager at Amazon, is Telling Ain't Training. And I love that book. So, it's an ATD Press book. It's seen better days, but I love it. I buy that book for people all the time, like, I just love it so much, and the reason I love it so much, is think of basically how to be an instructional designer married with a "for dummies book" - that's exactly what this is. It's very "how to," it's easy to read, it's pithy, it's fun, it's enlightening. And I love that book. I try to reread it about once a year because I just love it so much, and every time, I'm just reminded on why I love it so much. I highly -highly - highly recommend it. But a close runner up - close, close, close runner up - another book that completely changed my life is Will Thalheimer's Performance-Focused Style Sheets. I love that book so much. However, he is currently rewriting it, so I've been told, so I don't think you can buy it right now. But he is rewriting it to, I think, edit, for his learning evaluation model he's going to put in there, so stay tuned. But that book is incredible, especially if your organization does not believe in evaluation. It is so easy to make great evaluation questions for your learning experiences. Buy that book - I swear it will change your life.
Heidi Kirby 33:51
Awesome. Perfect. Well thank you Cara for taking the time. And I am excited to see what venture you will do next.
Cara North 34:13
Sleep hopefully.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai