And you know, seven tamps is not limited only to corporate environment, you can easily use it even in the kitchen. You know, I think courses on how to cook fish, how to teach your child to use the dishwasher, or even how to choose a cat. So you see seven tabs allows anyone to teach anything.
Hello friends, and welcome to the block the building learning and organizational culture podcast. I'm your host, Heidi Kirby. And today's episode, I talked to Kate Udalova, the founder of seven tabs, a stories based elearning product, where users can create amazing and engaging mobile courses. Kate talks to me about her vision behind seven tabs and some of the awesome features that contains she also announces a seven tabs contest where users can go in and create the coolest course ever to win
some pretty sweet prizes. So I hope you enjoyed this episode all about seven taps. Hi, Kate, how are you today?
Hi, Heidi. I'm fine. Thanks. How are you?
I'm good. So tell me a little bit about yourself. Give me a little bit of your career background and any fun facts you might want to share?
Sure, well, I originally am from Belarus. And that's where I started my career. I worked for training and consulting company where I was responsible for scaling and building l&d products, my services for building and scaling them. And also I work closely with clients as a
consultant. The reason I decided to change the direction was that I saw all sorts of companies experiencing almost the same knowledge delivery problems, you know, they were forever struggling with those cumbersome and complicated elearning platforms, it really took ages to create a new loading module. And the worst thing I think, was that, with all those efforts and time, they still faced incredibly low completion rates, and sometimes no engagement at all. So it was really a disaster
for clients. And as for me, I should mention that I've always been a kind of a product focused person rather than service focused. And I've been always dreaming of creating my own product. So I started thinking about how I could contribute to the industry. Personally, I strongly believe in the simpler the better approach. So a year ago, I created my job, I asked my husband for assistance and
support. And I embarked upon my setup, Johnny, you know, it turns out to be every bit worth it really great and really jacked. Sometimes, of course, exhausting. But creative. Sure. That's the short story house down taps was born.
That's awesome. You gave me kind of how you came up with the idea to start seven taps. But how did you kind of come up with the idea for the product itself?
Actually, I'm a great fan of stories. Because you know, stories are stories is a media format that actually has won over all social media platforms. Stories are easy to create stories are easy to consume. And stories provide great storytelling capabilities. So I thought, why not to leverage these to achieve higher completion rates in elearning, because people know how to use them. Even if a learner deals with a stereo for the first
time. It's so user friendly, it's so intuitive that you don't have to, to practice how to use the tool at all. I remember that LinkedIn announced Jerry's saying that they want to provide a more human way of sharing. So I decided to use this idea and to make something based upon this great engagement effect.
Sure, that makes sense. I think that it's always really great and important to give learners information in the same way that they use it outside of learning. Yeah, you know, videos, like, you know what, what I need to know how to do something. I'm on YouTube looking up someone else who knows how to do it stories, you know, social media, these are the ways people consume information every day. And so it makes sense to meet them where they are.
Yeah, right. Right, and you know, the comparisons your learners are making, or not sure the learning content, but you're the media and the content. As you've mentioned previously, compared to YouTube video games, are they engaging merrier? Let alone, we are always competing with the time Alana can spend with his family or with a pet, and so on. So there is no special dispensation for digital learning content to Luke Shi t, if I can use
Yeah, absolutely. So can you tell me some of the main awesome features of seven taps?
Absolutely, it's my favorite topic. I should start with a saying that in a nutshell, seven tabs is a tool to create, share, and track bite sized courses that look like Instagram stories. And it's a web based app. We built it in a way that learner doesn't have to log in. But results of learning can still be tracked down. So no hurdles to learn at all. And the greatest thing about Zendesk is that we managed to reimagine the way you create micro content.
Because with sound taps creating a course, given you already have a topic in mind takes no longer than 20 minutes. Just imagine it's way faster than using other platforms. Customers reach out to me to say excitedly, that seven taps is the rapid is to the embarrassin. And for me, this is just the best reward. Sure. What else can I add that seven taps is extremely easy to use, because everything is already pre designed for you.
And the structure of your course is intentionally engineered for the optimal micro learning experience. All you have to do as an educator, just to bring your message. And we guarantee that the course will look great on any device. In contrast to the platform's seven tabs is born mobile, while adaptive to desktop and not the other way around. So no more extra graphic design jobs.
Sure, that's great. No more redesigning everything, depending on what screen are using.
Even if you don't have an instructional and design degree, if you are not familiar with graphic design, you still can design beautiful and effective courses in just minutes. So it's painless, it's user friendly, it squeak. Everyone can use it.
One of the things I really like is all the different color themes.
Yeah, yeah, we just try to make it so easy for the client to create a course. So the only decision I made the graphic decision he should take is to choose perfect theme that will apply to his need and bled to his mood and so on. But in the next release, we'll add some custom features like choosing your custom theme. And it will also help those who have to follow brand guidelines. So if you're within a help two weeks, great. So you're
always coming up with new features and new ideas to improve the product. That's awesome.
Yeah, you know, we decided to start it with the basic set of features. And now I'm in close contact with our clients. I communicate with them 24 hours a day, seven days a week and all their thoughts requirements, comments are heard, and I tend to listen to them. And they helped me to put together a product roadmap. So I'll definitely develop product as we go according to the client's feedback, because customers voice is crucial in a product driven world.
Sure, and probably the best feature is that you have an always free version.
Yeah, yeah, we have that free community edition. So you just can try seven tabs and if you like, you can use it for free. Yeah, I really liked it because I wanted to make clear and accessible. If you have something to share with anyone, just go do it because it's easy. It's free and no strings attached.
Great. I love it. Tell me a little bit about micro learning and some of the science behind it because we hear a lot about it as a very trendy term. But you've done some serious research in order to create this product. So give me a little bit of your time. ecard micro learning, I'm
sure, you know, in its simplest form micro learning refers to learning experiences that happen in small chunks and repeatedly. And I think that the closest framework that's both micro learning is cognitive load theory. Yeah, we all need time to process information, we all have limitations of our working memory. And if we receive too much information, we can get easily cognitively overloaded.
You know, there is a common fact, it's called the Mueller slow that our working memory can only hold up to seven pieces of information at a given time. At seven taps, we respect these limits and deliver learning that our brains can really handle nothing more, nothing less. And as you can guess, this lower All Saints by the name of the
Friday. And you know, the only reason we keep hearing about micro learning instead of this really scientific stuff like cognitive overload reduction as one is that the term micro Latin is more catchy and sexy, I think. Sure, yeah. Despite our all that hype around the term micro learning over the last few years, you know, it's not a new
thing, actually. Because the first full description of the cognitive load theory dates back to 1988, as far as I know, and you know, my mother, she's a college professor, which use cue cards and short stories in her classes almost 15 years ago, not even aware that this was called micro learning. So you see, it's not really a trend in recent years.
For sure, would you say that those are some of the reasons why micro learning isn't a fad? You know, a lot of people think that it's going to go away when the next biggest thing comes out. How do you feel about that? When people say that micro learning is a fad?
You know, micro Latin does wonders when applied reasonably, first of all, and as far as micro Latin is not a new thing. And actually, the concept of learning in small chunks proved useful long time ago. Just remember the information better when we revisit it in spaced periods after we first came across it? Why am I learning? Is it is it it's high these days, I suppose, because we are now in an attention economy. It's always been true to some extent, but never more so than now in the COVID era.
And I think that micro learning aligns well with how we've come to consume information today. It's fast is adjustable. And what's most important is really boosts information returns. And at the same time, for the developers side. Content is fast, is inexpensive. And you can make changes in a snap. I mean, if you use sound taps, or if I just see reasons why it could be a fad at all.
So could you give me an example of a use case for seven taps for learning or training?
Sure. Sound dabs was designed to work within your existing LMS ecosystem, to both to increase engagement and to reinforce knowledge retention. And I see four main scenarios for using it. The first one is pre work when you prepare your learners with some material for the so called conventional training for longer form training. That you can use seven tabs for follow up training, given loaders, some drums some reminders in order to boost
their knowledge retention. And 70 amps might come useful as a standalone tool when you have to train your frontline staff with basic do's don'ts helped us and the like. And also you can use seven tabs for better performance support. And wouldn't you place right on the job? Personally, I believe that the good line is always applied of experiences and any skill development requires reinforcement practice. So almost any kind of training can
be enhanced with sound taps. But of course, it's not sure on the play when it comes to complex skills development. So it's definitely without a silver bullet. Yeah, you just cannot use it for any organizational challenge and any organizational need.
And I really liked that too because a lot of places who come out with elearning products are like this is the one thing that will solve all your problems and that's never true, right? Like, as designers as learning and development people, we need to have like a toolbox of different things that we use in different scenarios because every training need is totally different. Yeah, I think that's great.
Great. Yeah. Yep. Your rights. And you know, seven, tamps is not limited only to corporate environment, you can easily use it even in the kitchen, you know, as in courses on how to cook fish, how to teach your child to use the dishwasher, or even how to choose a CAD. So you see seven, tamps allows anyone to teach anything, and we just removed all the barriers to learning. That's how it works.
Sure. It's great. And so And of course, to K through 12. Right. And yeah, we'll environment. You know, my mom's a teacher, and I know she has trouble doing the virtual tests and quizzes, but I think this would be a great way to track that kind of thing, or, you know, track a knowledge check for a lesson that you're teaching virtually. Yeah, we
already have several wonderful ambassadors to seven taps and 1k 12 teachers, and they really love Radek their self disease tick about it. So it makes me happy. It makes me happy, because this is something I didn't plan initially. But I really enjoy that people get the value from using Bennett, from using sound taps. It's just great.
Absolutely. And one thing that you told me before this that I think is worth saying is that you're not paying for any big advertising. Right now. You're just using word of mouth, right?
Yeah, we have bootstrapped setup. And we are still in the early stages. So the only marketing channel we have is LinkedIn, where people share their thoughts about seven tabs. And it just, it's just incredible for me to be tagged in such posts. And I come there and I command and people reply to me, and, you know, it brings sometimes even tears to my eyes, because I'm so happy. Yeah, it's great. Just I have nothing to add.
That's awesome. Yeah, I've seen a couple of projects. And you know, at first I was like, Oh, I don't know what this is. I've never heard of it. And then now that I've heard of it, I keep seeing it more and more. So great job, great job in using kind of like that grassroots marketing.
So those posts got me thinking about launching the contest for the best course created with sound taps. Can I open up the details to your listeners? Had it? Yeah, yeah. Got it. So you just build the coolest course, with seven taps, and yet an iPad pro or 500 bucks, Amazon vulture. And all you have to do is to create a course on any topic and submit it, you can create it with our free forever license. So you don't have to download anything, no credit card required no
strings attached. So I just invite you and your listeners to participate. Follow seven taps on LeSean to be in the picture.
That is great. So an iPad Pro, you said Yeah, exactly. $500 voucher to Amazon. Yeah. And all you have to do is create the coolest course that's the only stipulation. We'll
have two stages have chosen it. Initially, we'll choose our favorites with our team. And there will be an open bowl on LinkedIn on our page so everyone can vote. And we'll see who will be the winner just like that.
Very cool. Now I have to think about what I want to do to enter.
Definitely giant.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I'm totally going to I have to you announced it on my show. I have to enter something now. Wow. That's great. So um, once you have the website for the contest, I'll be posting that in the show notes. As soon as I get that so that whoever's listening to this, go check out the show notes in the description for more information or go to seven taps LinkedIn page for the contest information. Yeah, great. Awesome. So my last question for you is one that I
asked all of my guests. If you could choose just one resource book, video webinar or podcast, whatever. To help people learn more about micro learning, what would it be and why?
And of course, there are many good books on the subject, but my favorite one is designing micro learning by Carla torgussen Actually, I'm a huge fan of Carla and she influenced me a lot to influence developing sound tamps, even without knowing it, and as for the book, it contains all the explanations and instructions, you need to create great micro content and to achieve right
learning outcome. So I just highly recommend for everyone who has an interest in micro learning and want to polish their skills.
Great, perfect. Well, thank you so much, Kate, for taking the time to talk with me about seven tabs and the cool contest today.
Thank you. It was my first podcast, so I'm really excited.
Thanks again for joining me on the blog. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and review us on your favorite podcast platform. I hope you'll tune in again soon.