You know, there comes a point where you're you kind of ask yourself, Am I still happy here continuing doing this for 30 plus years? Or do I want something a little different? And what ever that answer is, is completely okay
hello friends, and welcome to the block the building learning and organizational culture podcast. I'm your host Heidi Kirby. On today's episode, we have Sarah stebic, who is an Instructional Designer for large Financial Corporation and the founder and president of the next step life after teaching, or Translat, a volunteer organization dedicated to helping educators become
instructional designers. And that's exactly what we talked about today, Sara's journey, and how, as instructional designers, we can help others who are trying to break into our field. I hope you enjoy our first episode of 2020. Hey, Sarah, how are you?
Hi, Heidi. I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. Of course.
So let's just jump right in. And I'll ask you the first question that I asked all my guests. And that's Tell me a little bit about yourself. How did you get into ID? What's your history look like? And any fun facts you want to share?
Wow, that's a that's a loaded question. I like it, I like it. So I got into ID last Well, I was a teacher for nine years. And then I decided last February that I was done teaching, mainly due to medical reasons. And it just turned into I needed a different space in order to be safe and heal from that. And so I went ahead and started looking, I'm like, Well, what's next? I could be a secretary or I could be you know, an astronaut. Maybe except that takes a lot more schooling.
So I ended up going middle of the road with ID that you know, because in between Secretary and astronaut, sexual designer, and so I just I, man, I was like, how am I gonna get there, I don't have any money to go to school. I don't have any real formal plan. And so it was kind of isolating and lonely because I just couldn't figure out how
to get there. So the first thing I did was I quote unquote, revamp my resume, which did not know well, you know, started taking some LinkedIn courses and learning lingo every time you know, a new word came up, but Google that and learn all about that. Oh, okay. So I need to put, say, participants instead of students or stakeholders instead of admin or parents, right, so I learned how to talk the lingo. By doing all the learning, I dove in real deep to
learning. I listened to a lot of podcasts, I read a lot of articles. Just start applying and really applying myself and applying principles of really strategic job hunting, if you will. Then I got a couple interviews and I landed a job. I worked for a major financial institution now since July, and it's like Charlie, the Chocolate Factory every day. It's the best.
That's great. Any fun facts you want to share?
Well, I started off in deaf education. So I am fluent in sign language. I love karaoke. You still want a karaoke business? I was a headhunter for a summer. You know, I've done a lot of different things. I used to work at Orangetheory fitness, like I've done kind of like the gamut.
Jello haul trades. Yeah, astronaut wouldn't be that crazy for you, actually.
I mean, it's pretty much the same as a karaoke jockey. Right? You more buttons?
For sure. Yeah. That's great. So how I met you was that you started this group called The Next Step life after teaching or tan slat as we like to call it for short, where you're providing a ton of free resources to other educators who want to transition into instructional design. So can you just tell me a little bit about kind of how that got started? And what your vision and mission were for it?
Sure. Yeah. So we did call it tan slap for sure. And it's so great because I have awesome volunteers like yourself and like Aaron Chancellor, and Cheryl and just amazing people. And so really what this is, it started started, I just commented on somebody on Facebook, they were like, look, I'm done with teaching. What else is out there? And I said, Well, I switched to
instructional design. So you know, if you have any questions or anybody's, you know, feel free to message me I just got so many messages that I couldn't possibly feel them all at once. So I was like, well, I'll just throw them all in a zoom. And we'll just cover them on a zoom. And I can't cover all this in an hour. And if I'm going to be with teachers, I better have a slide deck ready, you know, have all my ducks. Right? Yeah, you can't just walk into a presentation and teachers and be
like, Okay, guys. So instructional design, yeah, you actually have to have a game
plan. And so that led to an eight webinar series about how to transition, it's not necessarily about the actual thing, things that you would need to know, methodology wise for instructional, or you know, that kind of stuff for how to use the different tools that trade, it's more like, here's the tools you have to learn, here's places you can go to learn it, Here are steps that you can take in order to make yourself more marketable in this
career industry. So it's more of a pathway versus a how to, if that makes sense. But it's branching out, you know, and we're just fighting the good fight, and trying to provide free resources and information. It's more about providing information and places to get the information that you need. Because a lot of times, when teachers are going through this transition, we feel that pressure, right, we feel that pressure to try and be quick about it. And we have this short
window. And it's it's a little chaotic. So typically, the first thing we come across, we're like, Okay, I'm going to jump on this, they say it's a great path, I'm going to do it, right. Whereas my strategy is more like, Okay, let's take a step back, here are all of the informational places that you can go to, ranging from free all the way to Master's programs, right, that you can invest in, in order to get where you need.
So that's really, that's really our mission, and to provide these for free for teachers, because it's just too expensive. We don't have that big bank role. And it's stressful to think, you know, when you're transitioning, you feel well, I don't have money for yet another degree for more debt for something that I don't even know if it'll pay off or be something that I like. So this way, I we just help people weigh their options.
Sure, for sure. And I think that one of the things that's been really interesting for me, I transitioned from college higher ed into instructional design. And what has been a little bit different about the K through 12. Crowd is like, the job search is just completely different. You know, searching for a K through 12 teacher job, there's a salary grade involved, the interview process is totally different. Just the whole thing is so different.
Even where you find jobs, right? You just go to that web, or the school and you're like, oh, they have positions open. Not so.
Right. You go to like, Okay, what did Mike which schools in my county are hiring? And then you go, yeah, it's just it's blown my mind how, you know, we kind of take for granted, people like me, who've kind of been in that cycle of looking for corporate jobs for years that this isn't common for everyone. Not everyone knows how to do this. And it's by no fault of their own, right? You go to college, you get your teaching license, and then you're taught how to find those teaching jobs,
right? Why would you ever need to know how to fill out a corporate application or have a resume that's geared toward a corporate job?
Absolutely. And it's and it's crazy, too, because over the last, I'd say, probably four or five years, there's been this huge pendulum swing to LinkedIn. Right. And in the education world, especially K through 12, we've barely touched the surface of LinkedIn. Most of us if we have a profile, we don't have a picture. We don't use it, we don't connect
on it. But really, to get a job in the corporate world, you almost have to have a LinkedIn it is the equivalent, I would say of going to be world's most connected job fair, right? where the jobs are there. You get to have a little port profile about yourself and market yourself and make connections with all sorts of people in the industry that you never know what your next opportunity is going to come from. So it's a game changer. And it's a big learning curve.
And it's becoming almost as important as your resume you know, when you fill out a job application now it's like attach your resume give As your LinkedIn profile is, like, right under it most of the time, you know, so they're expecting
you to have a profile. And like you said, I think one of the benefits of being a teacher is that you have this network right there with you in the school, what do you really need to spend extra time that teachers frankly, don't have networking with other teachers in other schools? You know, you've got this network of people teaching on the same subjects as you a lot of times depending on how big your school is a big network of teachers. Yeah. Whereas
verbal? Yeah, for sure. And incorporate, it's like, you might be the only position with your title in your whole company. So it makes more sense to want to network and reach out to other people in your field.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're, you're dead on with the, here's our, here's our little bubble, right. And when I apply, especially as a K 12, I know it's a little bit different for higher ed, but
especially with K 12. When you apply, you get invited to interview your interviews with like, two or three people, you might have an admin there, somebody from the department, but typically, it's one interview, it's about an hour to two hours, if that, and then they either tell you that they want you which, you know, I'd say about seven out of 10 times they do, or they don't, and then you move on. And you have almost this guarantee of finding a job, right, because teachers are in
such high demand. And that's how we've always done things. But in corporate, it's so different, because you're going up against a whole bunch of different candidates with a whole bunch of different backgrounds. And I don't say that to deter people, I say that, so that they're realistic, that is going to take a little bit more time and not to be discouraged. When you get those rejections, you got to build a tough skin, because you
will get rejections. But if you keep striving and keep learning and pushing yourself to be better, and you build a portfolio, and you really hone your documents, and you know, basically make it fail proof and say, Look, I know my stuff here is you'll find a job.
Oh, for sure. And that applies for wherever you are in your instructional design career. Right? It doesn't matter if you're brand new, or you've been there for 10 years, and just looking for a different organization. Right? Yeah. So let me ask you this. Because I've been thinking about this a little bit lately. Basically, what we're doing is we are for free, helping people to become our competition. Yes. Why? Why?
Why do you feel that it's important to help other educators essentially, be competing for the same jobs that you're gonna be applying for someday?
Right. No, I love that question, then I think it's, it's an interesting one, there are some people out there who would be threatened by that, and would steer clear of doing something like that, right. But here's the thing, learning and development is growing astronomically exponentially.
It's just blooming. Okay. And whereas corporate in the past hasn't put as much emphasis on training, they're realizing the return on their investment is much higher, when they bring in, in house individuals for lnd. Now, so learning and development, right. So a, there's plenty of room. B, I know for a fact that I will continue to push myself to be the best that I can be to learn new trades and new skills to
make myself marketable. And to stay on top of my A game, I'm more than happy to have others come in and learn what they can. I don't want to get a job. Because I'm the best out of, you know, what is only available, because it's a niche market, I want to be the best because I'm the best. Right? And that goes for a lot of people, I think, you know, it gives us that motivation and that passion to keep striving to be better, because I want to be better. And I know a lot of teachers want to
be better. And, you know, if they're gonna make it, they're gonna make it and if I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna make it. So I'm happy to make that an even playing field if I can for teachers, and I'm excited to be able to do that with awesome individuals who share that passion like yourself.
Yeah, no, that's a great answer. And I would say to that, I just really feel like I need to pay it forward that there were so many people who helped me When I made the decision to transition, even if they didn't know it, even if it was just me listening to webinars and podcasts and not even talking to people who didn't even realize that offering things for free, that would help me to make that switch, that would help me to realize, Hey, I've already been doing this, I just need to know
how to apply it properly. Now, I really feel obligated to pay it forward to the next, you know, generation of instructional designers that come through, right for lack of a better term, because, you know, I totally agree with you, there's room for everybody. And, you know, that's something that I've been talking about, as some of my ID friends, we've been appearing on each other's podcasts, and a lot of people are starting lnd podcasts. And, you know, it's great, because there is room for
everybody. It's such a broad field, you know, instructional design, to me probably doesn't mean the exact same thing that it means to you. And that's absolutely fine. Because it is a craft, and it is a field where, you know, you hone your craft, and you really become kind of an artist in a way. And, you know, depending on a company's needs, you might be the right person for them. Whereas I'm not the right person for them. I don't fit what they're looking for. And that's okay, too.
Yeah, and I would agree with that, you know, it is almost like we're artists, because everybody comes at it with a different aesthetic and a different vision, if you will, and how they work with people. And I would say, you know, teachers and educators coming in, have an excellent foundation of knowledge, because of the schooling that we've gone through because of the professional development that we're required. We know how
people learn, right? Yep. And a lot of people in instructional design, they have fallen into it, and they have made it work. And they're very successful. And they're excellent at what they do. And so I don't see any reason why an educator wouldn't be once they hone their craft, they have that plus what they're already bringing to the table from their brain.
Right, right. So almost even a leg up, right, compared to people who just kind of fall into it from other fields and end up there. Yeah, after
the works put in Yes, after Yes, because there's a learning curve. And it is steep, there's things that as educators, we never came across in the same capacity, like a needs assessment, right, or needs analysis, we would do pre tests, and we would put together data and you know, use that for our objectives here and collect data and present that to you
know, admin and all. But there's, there's more to it, there's little nuances that you have to learn about for instructional design needs assessment, and how you would present that to stakeholders. So as long as a person is willing to put in the work, and realizes this isn't necessarily a completely lateral transition, they're going to be just fine. They're going to be successful. But no, absolutely. I think that
teachers have a place here. And unfortunately, a lot of educators have been pigeon holed and made to feel like they have to stay in a position that maybe they've outgrown. Maybe they didn't know about instructional design when they went to college or whatnot. But when a teacher says, Well, I think I'm ready to explore something new society reacts in a very different way than if a different professional
made the same decision. It's always like, What do you mean leaving the children or, but you're such a good teacher, you should stay. But I'm unhappy, I'm ready to move on. I'm ready to grow in my career as a teacher, you know, you have stay a teacher or become an admin, right? There's not a lot of opportunity to grow professionally. And that can be it's almost like having your wings clipped, especially if you're a very creative person that has a lot of need to make
new things all the time. And yeah, you can revamp your lessons and revamp activities. But you know, there comes a point where you're you kind of ask yourself, Am I still happy here continuing doing this for 30 plus years? Or do I want something a little different? And what ever that answer is, is
completely okay. And is completely an individual determination that should not be influenced by what other people think that you should do with your life because at the end of the day, those people will be gone. It'll just be you at the end, right? Sure. thing, right? Am I happy? Did I do me?
Right? Right? In the game of life? I don't know, if you play that as a kid, I love the game of life. It's like, you know, you hit retirement and where do you want to roll? Do you want to be in the High Rollers retirement? Or do you do roll into this retirement? You don't take any of the other players with you, right?
That's true. That's so true. You know, and I love that analogy. And as a teacher, you constantly think about, can I ever retire? Will I be able to afford it like pensions are becoming a thing of the past 10 years becoming exceedingly hard to get. And if we're being quite frank, society has not been very supportive of teachers in the way that they need to be supported in order to be efficient, and to feel like
they are professionals. Sure. And so my best advice you have to you, Bill, if you want to go out and you know, learn something new, heck, you want to go out and be a sales man, you do that, or excuse me, a sales person, let me rephrase salesperson. And, you know, if you want to go out and become a tattoo artist, 20 years later, you know, like, I went out, and I got my nails done the other day, which the first time in two years, I was so excited. I was talking to my nail technician,
she was the sweetest lady. And I said, so, you know, how long have you been doing this? And she's like, well, I've done this on the side for 24 years. I'm like, wow, that's a long time. Do you like it? She goes, it's okay. But you know, my regular job, I just do this on the side, my regular job is in IT development. And she actually she before it, she was a
physician's assistant. And she was going for her doctoral before they switched in pharmaceuticals before they switch the requirement from five or six years to eight years. And so at that point, she decided just to go to it. So she has several degrees. And, you know, she was just doing this to help her family and, and to make a few extra bucks on the weekend. And, you know, it's whatever makes you happy, there are no bad jobs, there are no less than
jobs, we need everyone. So I think that's really important to keep in mind that your job truly does not define who you are as a person. And I know that's hard to keep in in perspective, sometimes, especially when we are encouraged so much to take that on as a persona in teacher education, right? Like, well, if you really love the kids, then you'll spend six hours after school grading and giving up your weekends and all this stuff, because that's what it
means to love your kids. And that's what it means to be a good teacher when in actuality, awesome teachers who try and just stick within the school day and just an hour of grading after school every day. They don't do a whole bunch of extracurriculars. And they'd spend time on themselves. And guess what? They're still awesome teachers. You know, yeah, you got to take care of you before you can take care of anybody else. That's so
true. And I think that's a good message for January, right New Year, as everyone's trying to kind of plan out their year and come up with goals for the year. What has been the biggest surprise to you about instructional design that you would have never guessed would be part of your everyday role?
Oh, my gosh, what a fun question. I've never been asked that. The biggest surprise about instructional design and my everyday role. I think the biggest surprise has come in the form of having to really not educate, but stick stick to my guns, if that makes sense. Because you're gonna have a lot of different opinions. And they're gonna come in the form of subject matter experts or administration or higher ups or even the people taking your
trainings and whatnot. And you kind of have to take all of those and what you know and what you feel is best practice and true to your aesthetic and find a way to blend all that without a losing your voice. Be a A compromising the effectiveness of the training that you're creating. And see without stepping on anybody's toes, right? Like you're, you're there
a good job. And so it's important that you go in with that confidence that you know what you're doing, especially if you've been an educator for, you know, any length of time. We struggle a lot with impostor syndrome and with self worth, and self doubt in our expertise, because we have people questioning that expertise all the time in the corporate world
is a lot better. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better in that if you say, Well, this is what we do in training, because this is best practices based on x y&z study, they'll be like, Oh, well, that makes sense. Okay, let's try it.
Right. versus, you know, I'll never, I pulled up, I pulled up all these research documents, research studies that I found online about learning curve and all this stuff when when I was proposing a project, because it's like, well, all these studies showed this and they're like, you don't really have to show me all the research for it. And that was a surprise, because I'm not used to somebody just trusting that I'm the expert. So that that was a little bit. Whoa.
I think I, I still get surprised when people ask me questions. It doesn't even matter. Like what it is, it can be about a project. It can be about pursuing a career and ID and like, I'll be surprised at that I know the answer. And be that like, the person even asked me the question like, Wait, how would I know? And then it's like, oh, wait, no, I actually do I know what I'm doing when my
feet are held to the fire. But I think that that impostor syndrome is something that so many of us deal with doesn't even matter, like where you come from, or what career you're in, I think it's just kind of inherent in us. Yeah, for sure. second guessing yourself, or, you know, like, for me, I'm a chronic Job Hopper. So I have a new job every year or so. And I think that that always contributes to it like, Oh, I'm going to be the new guy again.
Right? You know? And are people going to trust that I know what I'm doing as the new guy, you know, coming in and saying, Whatever needs to change with your learning, right? Being that person is always pretty scary. But yeah, I think just answering questions, right, and realizing that you can answer questions is one of the best ways to kind of combat that in your own mind is, I know what I'm doing, I know how to do my job. And not to get too much in your own head.
Yeah, I think I think I come across a lot of that. And I see a lot of that with the individuals that I mentor and help. There's always the question of, Am I good enough? Can I do this? And my advice to everyone out there who's ever asked that, which is everyone, including myself, so I need to make sure I listen to this later? Is that take it one step at a time? Take it one question at a time because like you said, you'll find yourself
knowing the answers. This is something you have a, like I said gone to school for for anywhere from four to 12 years, right? Some of us are our lifelong learners. And that's a beautiful thing. And be it's, it's okay to feel that self doubt. You just need to take it one step at a time. You'll get there. It's almost like muscle memory, right? Sure. You guys have this information, we have this information. And yeah, that that natural, like deer in a headlight like Oh, right. We've
all been there. And right, we always make it through, right, and you'll, and you'll learn from them. And you'll get better for those mistakes. If we go in expecting to be perfect. And on top of our game every minute of the day, you're gonna be exhausted no matter what you're doing. You just got to trust the process. Know that you're learning that you're human, and that every single person around you is in the exact same situation. They're learning.
They're doing their best. So, yeah, you might not have the official title of instructional design. But if you're an educator, you have been doing it. Trust me. There's just some nuances like we talked about.
Sure, for sure. Okay, so my last question for you is the same for all of my guests. And it is if you had to pick one book, webinar or TED Talk Look video, you get the idea movie documentary, it can be anything for people who just want to learn more about the field of instructional design, and you can't say tan slat Whoa, what would that be? And why?
Oh, my goodness. So this is super hard for me, because that's what I do. Right? I pull all these reasons. Yeah.
I know.
I. So I will say, the podcast that really got me going with everything was dear instructional designer, because it was so clearly laid out in a sequential digestible order. And I learned so much I, it wasn't overwhelming. For me, it didn't use a whole lot of terminology that made me feel incompetent, if that makes sense. It made me feel enabled and inspired and motivated to learn more about
what she was talking about. So if I had to recommend anything, even though like I'm going to listen to this later, don't be like, Oh, I wish I thought of this too. And this and this. But if I have to pick one, it's that one. Dear instructional designer.
I love it, because that one has been around long enough that I actually listened to that when I was first transitioning as well. So that's a perfect one. Well, thank you, Sarah, for spending time with me today.
Yeah, thanks for having me. And just a last word for anybody listening. Our website is www dot life after teaching.co CEO. And we offer free resources and information we offer free mentoring and resume portfolio assistance. And we're just here to help. It's not for anything other than we want to see you succeed, because we feel teachers deserve that investment. And to pay it forward.
Absolutely. And we'll share the link to the LinkedIn group and the website in the show notes too.
Yeah, definitely come be part of our LinkedIn group. We're a fun community. You can send all of your portfolio pieces and everything and get feedback and it's just a good time not to be having to do this all on your own.
Thanks again for joining me on the blog. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and review us on your favorite podcast platform. I hope you'll tune in again soon.