Ep. #118 – Dr. Travis Taylor, Former Chief Scientist on the UAP Task Force

Space and Missile Defense Command. And as a contractor supporting NASA, the Department of Defense and the intelligence community. Dr. Taylor has worked on many highly advanced technologies, Dr. Travis Taylor: we will have teleportation, we will have the magic inventory, we will have the the X ray hack, we will have XYZ will have Ironman suit, whatever.

But earlier this year, it was also revealed that he worked as the Senior Scientist for the Pentagon's UAP Task Force investigating UFOs that revelation surprised many people, including those who he was working with side by side on a daily basis. Dr. Travis Taylor: So it was a it was a bit of a shock to find out that, you know, we had you had kind of we're wearing two

hats. As far as that goes, I just will not wait interrupt, but I you know, I see it from a different perspective in that I was giving you guys back cover, Jay Stratton told me was that if we find anybody doing anything illegal if we find these men in black, that we're taking them down, you know, because they're doing it something that's not supposed to be happening. Today, Dr. Taylor steps into the vault to discuss his long career, his recent move to the private

sector. And hopefully, he will reveal some tidbits about his UFO investigations that he conducted for the US government. Stay tuned, you're about to journey inside the black vault. That's right, everybody. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. And taking this journey inside the black vault with me. I'm your host, John Greenewald, Jr, founder and creator of the black vault.com. And to say that I'm excited about this show would be an understatement. I'm not going to

waste any time. I want to bring them right on. And welcome Dr. Travis Taylor. Dr. Taylor, thank you so much for taking some time and joining me here. Thanks, John. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. And I've been excited to do this show ever since I learned that it was reported by George Knapp, for those who aren't aware that you worked as the Chief Scientist for the UAP task force. Now my I know, you know, this, Dr.

Taylor, but for the audience. We first met in brief about six, seven plus years ago, I was producing a show well before any UFO Task Force or even Skinwalker Ranch. And my executives came to me and they said, Hey, you have to get this guy on the show. And I was working on the show about aliens attacking Earth. And they said, This is the guy and they brought up you. And I was so sad. Because you were shooting, I forget what show you were on. There were so many that you were

currently working on. But we we didn't get to do that interview. And so here we are X amount of years later. And I really do appreciate you taking the time in a completely different context of what was how we originally met. So again, thank you for that. Before we get into all your UAP taskforce work and so on. Can you set the stage for me for the audience of who is

Dr. Travis Taylor, what do you do for the US government? And as we saw in the introduction, contracting for NASA, DOD IC work, what exactly do you do? Dr. Travis Taylor: Yeah, so a lot of people kind of have a mis perception as to, you know, why I was on the task force and you know, what my background is and so on. I've seen a lot of sort of memes out there like an alien Ancient Aliens guy was on the UAP Task Force. What that had nothing to do with me being on

the task force, honestly. You know, when I was in high school, a million years ago, I won the Uh, Alabama State science paper competition. And the first prize of that, that contest was a summer internship with the US Army. And this was in 1986. That's how old I am. So I went on to win six in the nation. And with that paper, I built a radio telescope and picked up radio

waves from black holes and stuff. And, and anyway, so the summer job I had that year with the army was to work on high energy, laser weapons system, design and do laboratory research with lasers. And the boss there liked me enough that he said, Hey, man, go to school and, and come work for us every other we're a quarters back then every other quarter. And we'll pay your way through school. And so sounds like a great deal, right? So the army paid me a salary, they paid my tuition and

bought books for me. And, and I would go to engineering and physics school, one, one quarter, the next quarter, I would work. And I did that for five years until I graduated, and they hired me full time. And I started going to graduate school full time. during all that time, I was working on laser weapons systems and high tech physics and engineering

concepts. And I ended up getting a master's in a bachelor's in electrical engineering, a master's in physics and a PhD. And it was a dual degree in physics and electrical engineering called optical science and engineering, which was quantum physics and laser laser physics. And then I did a master's degree in aerospace engineering, and a master's degree in astronomy. And then I have another PhD in aerospace

engineering. And, and during all that time, I was either working for the army on D weapon systems, or I moved into doing more space deployment concepts, satellites, space, laser based

space, propulsion, space, energy beaming. And then I went into the private sector for about eight years, and was and worked almost, I would say, 50%, NASA and 50% intelligence community, it was all space based hard problems, stuff, coming up with magic sensors that would detect things that were really hard to detect, and, and edit and all this time, never found this program about UFOs or anything. But now in two, and this is this

is key, in 2002. About six months after 911, a mentor of mine in the intelligence community, Dr. Bob bone, and I were in a meeting with a three letter organization, about finding solutions to the asymmetric war that we were in with you in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the hard

problems that we were seeing there. And I made the joke in the meeting there, there was a general and some colonels and much other folks in this room, senior leaders in the intelligence community, I started laughing and said, cuz this one general said, Well, we're gonna have to put ourselves in their shoes and walk them out in their shoes. And I said, I laughed, and he said, What are you laughing

about as well? Our poor people have X boxes and two TVs, you know, it, there's, there's no way we're gonna be able to even fathom walking a mile in their shoes. Most of these people don't even have shoes. So the only time America is gonna find itself in an asymmetric war is if we were invaded by aliens. And I was, you know, being absurd, you know, to make the

point. Well, a few minutes later, we were at the watercooler to break and one of these ice senior leader guys came up and said, What would we do if we were invaded by aliens? And I said, Well, I'm I don't know, we'd probably die is what I've what I've guessed. And so me and Dr. Bone, talking about it. And we said, hey, let's go find out. And at the time, we had no high clearances and stuff. We looked everywhere and couldn't find any plans, any protocols. So he said, Well,

somebody needs to do this. So we wrote the book. At the time, the first draft, it was called Introduction to planetary defense, the latest version, it's called alien invasion. Well, that's the book that you found, I think, on the internet that led you to give me a call to be on the universe or whatever the show was. Yeah. And so that's kind of key in this pathway that led me there. And just for clarity, was the book for the government slash military? Or was this a book that you

published outside? We Dr. Travis Taylor: decided since it didn't exist, that it needed to exist? And we asked our bosses within the three letter organizations, and they said, Yeah, we can't fund you to do it, but we'd really like to see it. And so I went and found my. And at the time, my first science fiction novel had just come out. And so I asked my book publisher if she'd be interested in it. And she was like, Yeah, let's do it. And so we went

forward with the book. And now moving forward. You know, we started doing these TV shows as mainly, the TV show thing wasn't because I wanted to be on TV as a, you know, get to be on TV guy, it was to get the, the science tech, technology, engineering mathematics needs sort of in edutainment, so to speak, to get it across to the public that we need more people

doing this kind of stuff. And it's not undoable, like people think it is, you know, like on rocket CT rednecks, we built that Iron Man suit at a junkyard car parts, you know, and I could curl a keg of beer with one hand. And that was $2,000 in crap. So, you know, if we actually had an Iron Man suit program, we, you know, we could probably do it. And that was my point was to educate people and things like this. And so, at any

rate, move forward. And I end up on getting invited to come be on the Skinwalker, secret Skinwalker Ranch investigation team. And after the first few weeks, I'm there I'm measuring these electromagnetic signals that scare me, because they remind me of what I thought might be some of our near peers doing something nefarious. And so I had a day job, you know,

still working with the army. And I had security reporting requirements, that if I thought someone was doing counter intelligence inside the United States that I'm by oath, required to report it to security. So I went for it, I went back to work and reported that I measured some signals, and I was concerned could be near peers doing something

nefarious. And I was called up to the Pentagon to brief some folks go into a room and I brief these guys and, and after a minute, then I had, you know, one other guy with me, that was from the first season of Skinwalker. And then Scott comes in and says, ask everybody else to leave the room. But me. And then these two guys walk in, and one of them's got a copy of my alien invasion book in his hand with post it notes all in it. And I find out a few minutes later that this is this guy's

name, John J. Stratton. And that He is the chief, he's the director of the UAP Task Force. And this was in 2019. And he said, he asked me to brief him again, I went through everything, all the all the data and everything and, and I had a security clearance. So he opened up a portfolio, start showing me some data and said, What do you think about this? And we talked for a little bit, and at the end of the conversation, he says, how'd you like to come on board and be the chief scientist for

me? And I was like, Yeah, Sign me up. And so that's how it all kind of rolled together. And it had nothing to do other than it put me in the right position at its own Skinwalker Ranch to make those measurements and nothing to do with being on TV. That got me on there. It what it had to do was, Jay had been doing this job for 20 or 15 years or something. And, and he, you know, through all SAP, and then a tip, and his job was oh, and I

and whatever. And he wanted a chief scientist that he could take with him to talk to Congress to talk to the White House. And to help him plan. Most of our work was done planning, if we got budget, what we would do with it, and then go into Congress and say, and here's why we need it. And what we would do, and about the other half of our work was in looking at data we had and seeing and reverse engineering as best we

could of what it was in the data. So that's that's kind of in a nutshell, how I got there. Let me ask you, is there a connection between Skinwalker Ranch itself and the task force so 2019 to you know, and beyond so not prior we'll get to that but, but from when you met Jay Stratton in 2019, after and you're at Skinwalker Ranch and obviously collecting data for use within the task force. Did Skinwalker Ranch become a subject of that task force?

Dr. Travis Taylor: No, it did not and I want to be very clear about about that. You know, a lot of people are thinking I was spying on on him for the government or reporting back and you know, dragon had the biggest problem with that thinking that that's what I was doing. If you know, dude, that's illegal. You cannot spy than the intelligence community cannot spy on the United States and on its citizens, the only only only intelligence organization that has authority to do this the

FBI. And you know, probably some DHS caveats there. But but the FBI is the one with the mandate for internal investigation of United States, and they gotta have warrants and stuff to go on private property or permission, and absolutely not. Now, what I, what I did have was insight that if I thought, hey, you know, I've seen this before, or an F 18 saw this, or a radar saw this, maybe I need to be looking at this frequency spectrum or this type of sensor or something, when I'm out there.

And the other thing was, if nefarious folks came up, I had a direct guy on my phone, I could call the local FBI special agent who was you know, 10 to 30 minutes away. And I could have an FBI agent they're looking for if I thought there was somebody black bagging us or there was a truck parked off the property eavesdropping, or flying drones or something like that. That was the only you know, asset or possibility of there being an

interaction, but there was not. And, you know, if I found something, keep in mind, I was under nondisclosure agreements with the TV guys, and with Brandon fugal, who owns the ranch. And so I couldn't report back that unless it was in a government setting or the government treated anything is intellectual property of the brand and fugal Advantium, LLC, or whatever it's called, I forget the name of this guy.

Yeah. And so it was it was a, it was a tight rope trick and to be careful what it seemed like such a genuine moment, and the clip that I played in the introduction to see the guys kind of react to learning that you had this, I think he called it a double hat. And again, it was like genuine is really the only word I can think of, because your reaction to it was equally as genuine trying to explain that, that type rope. And in that explanation you had brought up

men and black. And that kind of piqued my interest a little bit that you and Jay, were using that that phrase together? Can you explain that a little bit on what you meant by by men and black? I know you just said a little bit by watching if you saw cars parked or something like that, but what do you mean by that? Is that like, an adversary spying on you? Is that a government? Another government agency spying on you? What did

you mean by men and black? Yeah, so Dr. Travis Taylor: what I meant by the Men in Black specifically, is there's so much conspiracy theory stuff out there about this secret shadow government organization, and these men in black suits coming up and threatening people, they can't ever say anything, and they're gonna kill him or

whatever, and all that stuff. And so Jay, and I were like, you know, we hope they come to the door, because we want to know who these people are, because they're operating outside of constitutional authority. And if they do, then that's why we had FBI on call. And he had, he was at, you know, Jay was a senior leader in the Navy. And he had, you know, Navy NCIS guys on call that, you know, something happened, we could put law

enforcement into play. And we were hoping that if there was this, or is or I'm not saying we never found them in in black, let me clarify that right now. But if they were there, we were hoping they would, you know, show up and we'd see what was going on. But I'm not saying they're not there. I'm just saying that we never found right. And I don't know any, anything more than anybody else about that, really, except that from our interaction within the task force, we never saw them.

Before I get to the chief site, because I want to take you back to the Chief Scientist role and exactly exactly what you did with Jay. But one last question on all of that, if I may, it seems like going into this. And this is credit to you, that you had kind of the the data collecting

mission to what you were doing. But also it kind of and correct me if I'm wrong, but like this myth busting, mission between you and Jay, whether it be this men and black kind of issue that you've heard about before, but also you had mentioned a couple minutes ago, about being highly cleared with all the work that you did, and started looking around for UFO slash alien extraterrestrial type programs, or anything like this and didn't

find any. What does that tell you? Do you think that you were cleared enough to find those deep dark secret programs should they exist? And if you feel you were that cleared? Does it say something that you didn't find it? Dr. Travis Taylor: Yeah. So the National Defense Authorization Act, gave us the authority to go ask any service or agency in the federal government and ask them if they have a program and for them to tell us if this was them or not. And they And they always

came back and said, This is not us. And so, as far as I can tell, there was no program. But now, there is a possibility that there were Special Access Programs that had an NDA that was so tight that they were they could have been afraid to discuss with anybody that didn't have that particular clearance. And the person who created that caveats, dad, so no new people will ever have that clearance. It's a very Raiders, the Lost Ark Ark of the Covenant in a lost warehouse kind of problem.

And so that's what the whistleblower clause in the new NDA was all about. It's not about, you know, that we're, somebody's going to come tattle on somebody for doing something because they've been breaking the law, it's most likely that there might have been if there was, I don't know that there was a legacy program. That's what we call them legacy programs that

had a classification that doesn't exist anymore. And the people who had the classification authority to create that they or give you the clearance to go into that program doesn't exist anymore. They're dead, right? Are They're long retired, nobody knows who it was. And so these people may

have been read into these programs and worked on them. But they can't tell anybody, there's no way there's no legal mechanism for them to tell anybody because then they'll violate their their NDA, and they go to jail for a long time for doing that. And so that's what this new clause in the NDAA for 23 is supposed to be, is that it gives a protection to people who can come forward now that may have had those

clearances, but didn't know how to carry it forward. Think about there's more many reasons for more than just us knowing if there is some information that was important in those classification programs, I'm sorry, if they existed, I don't know they existed. If they existed, you don't want to lose that information. Right, we need to have a way to, to capture it, store it maybe putting in a new classification, under a new program or something so that people that are alive and will

live for a while will be able to know that it's there. And even if it needs to remain classified, there's a method methodology or a place to keep it. And if it doesn't need to still be classified, then there needs to be a method for releasing that information as well. And I'm sure you just gave me plenty of buzzwords put in your next for you. That yeah, no, no, I, I'm frantically taking notes as we go here.

Dr. Travis Taylor: I don't have to deal with them anymore, John, with, with everything that you just said and your past and looking into this, I want to ask your quick thoughts on the people that have come out the whistleblowers that talk about these highly what would be highly classified issues, and you have a clearance I do not. Nor have I ever but I've been around the block enough to know that sometimes the mere idea of something is in of itself, a classified in

nature thing to talk about. So, you know, it's it's a hard thing to kind of explain. But I finally got something in writing from the DIA recently, which I posted that that pretty much puts in black and white, that concept that the idea of something or the existence of something, even though they're not showing you the blueprints, the existence of something, in and of itself can actually be classified. So they give a

Glomar. So my question is, with all these people that have come forward, whether it be Bob Lazar, or others that have been posted in the New York Times, I've talked about Dr. Eric Davis talking about offworld vehicles and, and stuff like that. All of that, in my mind would be highly classified in nature, yet nothing happens to those to those whistleblowers that are talking about what would likely be highly classified. Can I ask

your thoughts on that? Do you believe there is weight to what the stories are being printed about Bob Lazar, Dr. Eric Davis, and so on, or do you have an issue with that? Dr. Travis Taylor: Well, I I have an issue with the whole Bob Lazar story. I think George Knapp is an amazing, you know, investigative journalist and mammon. Jeremy Corbyn, what they've done is amazing. But I think there's more to the Bob Lazar story than they understand our know and are willing to

accept, I don't know the right way to say it. And I don't mean any disrespect to Georgia. Georgia is wonderful. What I mean by that is, perhaps there was something more going on, if Bob Lazar really was there, and then he understood what he was

being exposed to. Right. My biggest concern with all this, how do you have a master's degree from, you know, one of the most prestigious schools and on the west coast in physics, and you didn't keep a copy of your diploma are, you know, physics departments are small, he would have remembered a physics professor he took for e&m to, or quantum or mechanics, or stat MC, or you name the course. And that professor, one of those professors would still be alive who could say, oh,

yeah, Bob was in my class. But you know, there's no evidence that he can point to that even has a master's degree in physics, other than Him saying some physics see words. And then that, you know, there's the phone book in his in his W two form, or whatever it was, or 1099, for you or for him, it was he said, they got paid from there. Maybe he was maybe he did do some laboratory work there. But I just, I have a real hard time with the credibility of that story. Not saying it didn't

happen, but I just have a hard time with it. Now, on the other hand, Well, Eric, I know Eric, very well, Eric is Eric is a super genius. He's brilliant. And he's been exposed to something he spends a lot of time at Skinwalker Ranch. Now, before I went to Skinwalker Ranch myself, I thought most of

the stuff he said was crazy. But I can tell you, I will tell you this, Eric has a tendency to accept and believe stories from pseudo credible because of where they come from, then he accidentally assumes what they're telling him as a credible story without getting the back background data to prove their story. Like if I told Eric, that, you know, there were aliens on the moon, Eric will probably believe me. Right.

And I don't mean that as a discredit to Eric, Eric is a he's trustworthy, very, very trustworthy of people that he trusts. So I think what Eric needs to do is, is find a better way to show proof than simply the stories. That's why I don't like to get into, you know, the story, you know, I'll tell sometimes some of the stories of things that happen, even they sound crazy, but then I'll say, sounds crazy. And I can't prove it to you. Because I don't have any sensor data or anything, say

it really happened. So I don't expect you to believe it. And so unless I have the data, and that's what I want to focus on, is we have data and all sorts of data of UAP UFO phenomena, that is hard science measurement data that can't be refuted, that needs to be investigated much, much further and much in much more detail. Does that answer your question? Does that help you? Yes, it does. And I want to get into that data right now. But before I do I know, I will get a ton of hate

mail. If I don't ask you this question. I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. But since we brought him up, and we're talking about Dr. Eric Davis, you're familiar with the Wilson Davis notes? Yeah. depict real events or not, what is your opinion? Dr. Travis Taylor: I don't I don't want to say that they did or didn't happen? Because I don't know. They seem fantastic. Right. But there's the notes aren't scientific evidence.

They're just data. And so it's, that's the problem with a lot of the whistleblower testimony is there's not going to be a smoking gun box somewhere that we can go point to and say, Here's the evidence that backs up my story. And we really got to be able to find a pathway to that warehouse where the Ark of the Covenant is, right. I mean, that's kind of the hard problem that we're in.

And let's go back now to the data that you were talking about, when you're talking about the hardcore data that just really hasn't been, I'm not putting words in your mouth. But I think you said like adequately explained or addressed. Is that from your work as as, as chief scientist in the UAP Task Force or prior? Dr. Travis Taylor: Um, I'd say it's from my work period. Okay.

So, yeah, so of all time, there's a lot of hard scientific measurement data that we take in a Skinwalker Ranch, there was a lot of there was so much data that we had at the task force, I couldn't even look at all of it. And the worst part about it, just to be honest, John, and there's a lot of people saying, you know, we were incompetent, we couldn't do this or that. But you know, I joined the task force in 2019 in like May, June,

something like that. And and then guess what happened about six months later, the world shut down, because the COVID and the in the DoD shut down, shut down travel unless it was like a, you know, a shooting mission requirements. And I mean, literally, like if it wasn't in some extreme Operational Requirement, there was no travel. And so it the problem with most of the data that we got on the task force was they came from sensors on different military systems and each one of

those had different classification. Some of them were Special Access Programs, some of them were T SSDI. Some of them were this, that and the other thing, and you can't put that data on the same computer systems. So there were times So Jay and I had a way for me here in Alabama to go into a skiff that had a video conferencing system. And and J had one in his office. And a lot of times, he would get one of those other computers, and play the video on a different screen and point the

camera at it. So I can look at it just to witness. And that was the best we could do during COVID. Now, he could send me hard copies of things in print or screen captures and that stuff. And, and that's that's the way we did the analysis during COVID. And keep in mind, they only let me go in the building one day a week, during during for two years affected him. So COVID Put a big damper on what we were doing. And but

we did have a lot of data. And when we said I said in the final report that we released, that there was 143 that we couldn't explain out of 144. And that's not made up. I mean, we had either, you know, like radar or EOIR sensor captures images, video, we most of them were backed up with a pilot or a WIZO. Say, and they saw it or they saw at least the date on thing. They took a picture of their cell phone or something like that. And and so that may have been all we had. And when

if that's all you've got, I mean, what's your next step? Our next steps were we told Congress, we needed this much money to go do these experiments and try and get more detailed, hard data. So the the hypsi and the CDC did put into the law that there should be budget. But the Appropriations Committee never appropriated the funds. We always worked 100% on existing funds on loan from our parent organization like the army loaned me to Jay during that timeframe and still paid my

salary and complained about it the whole time. Because I wasn't bringing in the other money that I was supposed to be getting to pay for my salary. Because it was never appropriate. And so there were a lot of issues as to why a lot of things, there wasn't more guts to the report that was laced. And it was there

was much more to it than that. But that was what was, you know, filtered down for the general public drilling and even deeper to you to Dr. Taylor, what was the most convincing data that you were seeing that made you realize, oh, my gosh, we have to get more funding? We have to look at this what were what was it visual? Was it was a testimony what what was it Data Wise, that was telling you there's something to this?

Dr. Travis Taylor: Well, it was it was two things actually, they were sort of they were parallel pads, I was seeing the same things at Skinwalker Ranch and making detailed measurements with multiple sensors, gamma ray detection, microwave detection, infrared detection, visible and multiple witnesses having physiological effects when these things were occurring, and hearing similar things while on the other side of the fence with

my Task Force hat on. And that led me to realize that you know, this has to be much more detailed and looked into and I tell you since I'm talking about it's publicly released is the gimbal video has so much data in it that people don't realize is there. There is all the little words and numbers on the screen

mean stuff. They mean a lot of things. I've done detailed analysis of this I've we breached this to various levels that we debrief it to senators and congressmen we briefed it a bunch of places, but it's not a glare as some deep bunkers would have you believe it's not a an airplane 80 miles away or however far it was they say it's gonna be and, and it truly is the vehicle making these turns is not an artifact of the Raytheon at FLIR and a while it's really interesting, I see

so many people taking such hard efforts to debunk as opposed to just do analysis and report the analysis. And I wonder what is behind that? Is it a personal motivation? A religious motivation, a political motivation, and economic motivation? I don't know. And I can tell you right now, John, and you can attest to this because you worked in TV. The TV wasn't an economic motivation. I was doing I'm still working my day job for a reason, right? Yeah. Yeah, you're not gonna get rich off of being

off of being on TV. I can tell everybody that I've always tried to dispel Have that myth for for many years? To go back to kind of the debunker question, I kind of have a couple that are folded in here. But my name comes up to you a lot. As I say, sadly, because a lot of it is misconstrued. I know, Stephen Green Street is another one that you get asked about a lot, Mick West, obviously more of the video analysis and the gimbal.

And I think that there's just kind of this misconception between people that that have these varying levels of skepticism. The first part of my question is, I mean, do you really think that there is a underlying motivation for them? I mean, I guess the same could be said, if you're on TV, you're not making a lot of money. So I support you there. But when you say economic motivation, I don't see Mick west or Steven Green Street really making a whole lot of money from this either. Yeah.

So Dr. Travis Taylor: unless they've had a sugar daddy of somehow pumping money into it, I don't see that either. Right. No, and that's what I want to ask you. Like, do you? Do you feel that that that's a possibility? Because I don't just full disclosure, but I want you to be able to address that too. Because do you feel that there's some other entity that's pumping money and funding it? Dr. Travis Taylor: See, that's I don't I that's the that's a

question. I mean, I'm asking that as a question. I don't know. I'm asking what is that motivation? Because to me, that's an important thing, either either to socio logical Kurt, cultural phenomena, that people are just motivated for some reason to go in. And they can't, like, we can't have aliens, or we can't have UFOs. They're not real. They can't be so I'm gonna go show that it's not what's driving that emotionally? Or, or is it eco? Usually people do things for

power, money or emotional gratification, right? And so, where in those three, does it fit? And is? Is it just purely emotional gratification? If it is, that's a fantastic and staggering phenomena. You know? That's honestly, it's why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I'm sure it's why you're doing what you're doing. Right. So let me let me ask you, then, because I don't know, on your end, what kind of analysis and we'll stick

with the gimbal. Because you brought it up. And I agree with you, there's a lot of data points that are visible there, none of which I understand because they go way over my head. So I stay out of the analysis. So I've got no skin in this game. But my but my question is, on your on your side, right on the government side, on the analysis side, uj. And the task force, which by the way, really quick, how many people were in the in the task force? Can you say that we're kind of working?

Dr. Travis Taylor: So So keep in mind, what I said earlier, is that there was never any funds appropriated. And so there were people on loan from almost every service and every agency that were part of this task force. So what are there like 18 Different agencies in the intelligence community, and every one of them was represented in some form or fashion and some others, and and the ones who didn't have an active participant were briefed

and said, Oh, that's great. I don't know what to do with it, though. I mean, we briefed the NASA administrator, the previous one. And we briefed the White House Chief scientists, we bring I mean, we briefed everybody. And so it's a, you know, we had we had meetings, Jay would call it happy hour, at least once a week. And we would do one when we could we would do them in a classified setting. And when we couldn't, we would do them on

like a team setting. But keep it unclassified just to do kind of logistics and keep up with everybody. And there was always 10 or 15 people on those, you know, conversations. So there were there was enough people looking at the problem that, you know, had we been truly, given the momentum to go forward, we were going to get to the end of the frog gave me a perfect

example. There are there I was about to just before COVID, I was scheduled to go do the dunk tank training to become a payload specialist on a particular aircraft, I had all sorts of sensors in it, and we were gonna go and fly around certain hotspot areas and look for a data. But COVID knocked that out out of the out of the words. And there was a lot of things like that, that we just never, in the three years I was there, we never had the funding to move forward. We had the

authority, but never the funding. And you could have the authority all day long. You don't have the money to do it, you're not gonna go forward and do much in regard. I'm glad for that explanation. So thank you, I found a document with the NRO that had never really been revealed before not only the document, but the concept of a UAP Task Force advisory board. And I'm guessing that that's what you're referring to is that

collectively they had all these people on loan. So very cool to get your your side of the perspective on that, because I want to go back to that gimbal question that I wanted to ask you to give everybody including myself In the background to what analysis or how you guys do the analysis, again, taking the the gimbal video, for example, because what Mick West does, obviously is more apparent to us, right? I mean, we can see it the general public, I mean, but we can't see what you guys did.

So so how much detail can you give us on what you do to analyze that video? Who was involved? And what conclusions did you guys come up with on that specific video? Dr. Travis Taylor: Well, I've spoken with Mick West about this not not voiced a voice, but texting or email or whatever a few times. And I gotta say, make those very thorough work. And I

got nothing bad to say about him. Except I'm just curious as to what his motivation is, you know, and I'm not saying it's nefarious, I don't want anybody to people go on Twitter, you follow Twitter and go crazy with that stuff. And that's why I don't go on there much is because it's so toxic. But so the first thing we don't do is throw any data out. And one of the first things that, you know, Mick says in his video about the

gamble is we're going to not listen to the audio. We're not going to you know, we don't, we're not going to talk about the radar that they talk about, they're seeing that things on the situational awareness radar. And so what he's doing right, there's taking to witness sensors out, immediately. He's taking the pilot and WIZO sensors out themselves. He's taking those situational awareness radar, who, which

detected a whole fleet of these things. And, and then what he doesn't point out was that that situational awareness radar slaved the FLIR to what it was detecting, and and slewed it to the gimbal object. So it couldn't be a lens flare only, or an object of the of the sensor, if the radar was picking it up and telling you that it was I Oh, no, it was an airplane 80 miles away. Well, no, if it were an airplane, that FLIR apertures about that big around, and at that distance you would

have had one pixel would be about the size of a car. So you, you know, a 747 would have had three or four or five pixels at best on target. And this gimbal video has plenty of scent of pixels on the target. So there's a lot of things that aren't brought to, to light there. And then there's, there's a whole lot of other steps. And we went and interviewed the people involved. We went and looked for any other instrumentation data

that if there were we couldn't talk about anyway. But the point is, there were there is a lot more data than just what is in the videos that are there. And and, and again, I talked to you about it earlier about why you can't declassify some of those things I get? Well, I'll just point out if every sensor, for example, on on f 22 is classified, I mean everything. And so you can't even reveal a picture from one of those sensors because it would tell our enemy, what capabilities

that sensor has. Right? And so it will remain classified forever, or at least until the F 22 is obsolete, right? And that's why people say why aren't there more data about the underwater things? Well, every single sensor on a on a nuclear submarine, everything on it is classified. And so you're never going to get see that data until those technologies are obsolete

and no longer useful against our near peers. So that's kind of the situation we're in this model often for coming to the conclusions they do they but they're not using all the data.

And that's what I wanted to follow up with. So you're safe to say and you likely can't give details but safe to say like with the gimbal and all these other incidents, that there are additional datasets that you guys can look at working in the classified world versus us getting a leaked video later officially released, but very little data other than the on screen display and the voices. Dr. Travis Taylor: Yeah, that's, that's, that's, I would say that

is a good explanation. But I would also say there's data in that gimbal video that that has been stripped away from the analysis that shouldn't be done even just from a white world open world analysis. The witnesses themselves like the Dr. Travis Taylor: witnesses and the situation awareness radar, and understanding what each of those little letters means on the on the thing and what it's telling you that the radar and the LIDAR system and the and the infrared system were doing. They

were they were working together and tracking this thing. And it's so it's it's a there's something more to this. It's not easily explained away or debunked. And what I would like to see, instead of this toxic head butting that you have on the, it can't be a UFOs. It has to be balloons and drones and swamp gas, or whatever is for that to go away and for everyone to, you know, compare notes. And to and to work this problem with, you know, two heads are better than one in many cases.

And instead of toxically going after it, you know, my grandma, you say You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And I think the UFO community is full of vinegar. At least, that's an understatement. But I know I agree with you there. I want to talk about how that that kind of

community works since you're now in the private sector. But before I do, are you able to give us one specific incident that you saw working within the task force that really stuck out to you is something that is unexplainable, and maybe not our technology or a foreign adversary, but something else did? Did something like that occur for you?

Dr. Travis Taylor: I can tell you it did occur, John, but what I can also tell you is that we're firmly held to our NDA is that if it hasn't been released to the public, as from the government not leaked, I mean, released from the government to the public, then we're not supposed to, we can't talk about it. Gotcha. And you mentioned the leaks. I'm not

sure how much I can ask you about this. But one thing that always kind of fascinated me was the run up to the report from last year, there were like these, these multiple leaks of photographs. And, and they, you know, they came out kind of leading up and it was like leaking like a sieve from the inside. And these data came out. Can you address any of that on what came out? Why you think it came out? And Dr. Travis Taylor: well, I can tell you, it didn't come from

anybody on the task force. But what I can tell you is when we would go and do these briefings, we carried packets of the briefing, you're marked with the right classifications and and left him with trusted agents, whether they be congressional staffers or whether he you name it, I don't know who they were. And I don't know who they briefed after that, either following that, but I can tell you that nobody on the task force to my knowledge had anything to do with any leaks.

And so wherever these things came from somebody besides us, show them things if that's if they if they were, you know, you know, our documents, but I, you know, and again, I can't talk about if they were real or not real. You no documents unless the government has released that publicly.

Well, that was and that was the interesting thing that fascinated me was that they did, they went in and in some cases, it was very quick where Pentagon spokespeople would come out Susan Goff namely, and said, yes, these were utilized by the UAP Task Force, but I could never get them to to put in writing if they were considered unidentified or not. Now putting the pieces of the puzzle together, the report comes out, they were only able to identify

one which they claimed was a deflating balloon. But that was it. The rest were unidentified. So again, putting two and two together, if it was utilized by the task force, and the task force report said All but one were were unidentified, then I would think at that time, it would be safe to say they're on identified. The one that I wanted to bring up to you not sure if you can talk about it is the infamous, I'm going to do the air quotes of the green pyramids that were, you know,

just kind of torn apart online. Can you talk to that at all? Because I have heard you talk I think about triangle shaped craft and I think that you were talking about this, but I want to make sure. Can you talk about that footage at all?

Dr. Travis Taylor: Yeah, what I can talk about on that is, you know, just from a public analysis of the publicly released the video, you know, the so funny, somebody must have said the words Bo K to some program manager or our non scientist guy, and they latched on to it and with Oh, it's a bokeh effect is clearly a photography bokeh effect thing. Well, so bouquet is just a Japanese word that basically

means blurry, right? And the bouquet effect is if you have a camera that has a particular shaped Iris inside it, some some a lot of nowadays have nine sides. They look kind of like a stop sign, but with you know, an extra side and these are the irises that can close down and open up. And if you sit the focus, where it's a real close field of focus, everything behind your object that you're looking at, will take on the blurry shape of your your pupil, your iris, that nine side of

that stop sign Good thing, which was an octagon. But a lot of the irises for some reason have nine sides. Some have 12 Nowadays, but so the the debunk is that there's a triangular shaped aperture inside the second gen NVGs. Or I think it was a third gen NVGs night vision goggles that the the Snoopy guy took the video from. And they say this because, well, the stars in the background are triangular. And it's so funny that somebody when we point it to the video, so there's something in this video

that's really interesting. They say, Oh, you, you're a bunch of idiots, those are stars. I never said those were not stars, there's one moving object in that thing. The rest are sitting there and and in fact, the Snoopy guy gives you his GPS coordinates, and the date is on the video and time. So you can take any astronomy software and plug that GPS coordinates this off coast to San Diego, and then put in the time until the drill

and he tell you tells you which direction he's looking. And you can see the exact star field, you can overlay it in that video, and you can see which stars they are. But you see the one that's moving and blinking? Well, if it's in the near field, and he's focusing his camera on it, even if it does have a triangular aperture, if it's in focus, then it should look like whatever it is in focus, and the things behind it would have this

bouquet effect. And the interesting thing there is that even in focus, when they vote, you can see the video, the focus of just the object that's moving is very sharply triangular. While the stars in the background are fuzzy, and pseudo triangular, they're, you know, get rounded corners. And you know, they don't look like a sharp triangle that you would draw for your geometry class. And so that looks more like the

object moving is in focus and the things behind it or not. And so to you, and again, I've got no skin in this game, but but I'm just genuinely curious. Don't they look like the exact same shape to you though? Dr. Travis Taylor: No, actually, I've done a detailed analysis, the thing is moving is very sharp, detailed triangular. And the things behind it are much more fuzzy, rounded, triangular. And the things behind it are clearly stars and there's a

bouquet type effect. I'm not so sure there's a triangular aperture in the NBA, the third gen NVGs they cost too much we tear one apart and look and see. You know, I may if I if I want to put more skin in that game tear one apart, but I don't really care. There's plenty of other videos that are more interesting. But here's the key though. By the way, are those videos that are more interesting out in the open or No, Dr. Travis Taylor: I know a lot more about the what was going on

at that timeframe than what is just in that video. Right. And the Snoopy guy tells you if you listen to the audio, which again, the the bunkers though the audio out, he says that radar has verified drones in the area. In and out, they use the word drone as sort of a catch all for any unknown aircraft. It's not like looked like a man craft that they find. So he's thinking that so he's telling you right there, the radar has picked up something. So this thing is detected on the radar

that they're seeing. Also, keep in mind, this is the ship in the middle of the ocean. And there's no other ships anywhere near it. And drones at best, have a 10 or 15 minute sort of flight capability with the batteries. So where did this thing come from? Right. And if it is a drone that the Chinese or somebody else has got a much better battery lifecycle than that, then they've got something we don't. And that's something important. And had we known for sure that was a Chinese drone

doing something like that. There's no way it would have ever been declassified To my knowledge, that video was never classified. I mean, I was I was there when we wrote the security class guide for things like that. And to my knowledge, it never was in the last six minutes or so I have a couple more points that I want to Dr. Travis Taylor: just it's not a hard six minutes. It's up to you, John, I appreciate that. No, I don't. But I also don't want to, I want to respect your time don't want to

disrespect it. So I want to keep it as tight as I can. As you've now walked away from that role, you've retired and gone to the to the private sector, can I ask without impeding on any classified information? What are you walking away with? Idea wise meaning when you look at these phenomena, or if you feel it's just one phenomenon? What are we looking at? What do you what do you conclude? By all the stuff that you've seen you walk out

you're now in the private sector? How do you feel about UFOs and UAP? Dr. Travis Taylor: Well, I know it's a real scientific phenomena that I don't know what it is. There's a lot of I'm I data, there's a lot of data that I've seen, that leads me into the bin of sort of the science fiction, it could very well be

extraterrestrial beings, drones, AI, something like that. But it also leads me into the, you know, when I try to come up with a mundane, near peers or billionaires or something doing this on Earth, that that seems to be more of a stretch, then going toward the more exotic explanation. And then there's always the possibility that Mother Nature is showing us something new that we've never seen before. But man, it's certainly doesn't act like just some random, natural phenomena.

So I'm more inclined to lean one way, and that is that there is some nuts and bolts solution. It might not be bait of nuts and bolts, it might be something completely different than what we understand as nuts and bolts, but that it isn't something we built. And it is something that we should be concerned with. I mean, I can tell you from firsthand, after being exposed to radiation out on Skinwalker Ranch and being sick for a week from it, that I think there's an see, and other people have

physiological effects. And here in the psychological trauma that, you know, the pilots and things have talked about this, we need to get to the bottom of this. And when you see how close they fly to airplanes and stuff, that's concerning, what if one of them decides fly a little closer? So them having an extraterrestrial origin is is

on the table for you, but you're not 100%? Convinced? Well, Dr. Travis Taylor: see, that's the thing about the way I want everybody to understand this is while I might think that's the answer. If I can't prove that's the answer, it's disingenuous for me to tell everybody, you know that it's probably aliens, or it's probably the Chinese or probably the Russians, or whatever, if I can't prove it, any until I can, until I can

prove what it is. It's very disingenuous for me to say otherwise, because it's gonna lead people to you know, maybe, you know, go to conclusions and other parts of their life that, that this would affect. And and I don't want to do that. While again. Yeah. All I can say is the from probabilities. Right now, the probability of it being more of a science fiction answer than it is a mundane China near peer Russia, oligarchy?

Something I don't know, answer seems like, it's going up higher on the the science fiction scenario being more likely, because it's just everything we've turned over every rock we've turned over on planet just on Earth, just suggests that there's nobody here that could build these things and do this, do these kinds of things. But I could be wrong, and I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Or I'd also be happy to be proven right. Quick question about that. You said you were

sick for a week from Skinwalker Ranch. And if there's a connection with these phenomenon in some way with that? Isn't that measurable data? Meaning like if you've got something that is ailing you, Have you have you looked at that? I mean, I mean, especially in a pandemic world, you know, everybody's frantic about viruses and bacteria, and so on and so forth. So what point when you experience that, do you turn

around and go, Okay, look, paranormal or not? Something's going on here that we got to look at, and you call the CDC or, you know, HHS or whomever? Yeah, that would look at that, well would help me understand that within Dr. Travis Taylor: 48 hours of me being exposed to whatever it was, it gave me all the symptoms of radiation sickness. And we had a contractor who does this for nuclear Navy ships come in and scour the place from top to bottom, it couldn't find any,

anything that would trigger a gamma ray detector. So we've left gamma ray detectors out there for long periods of times. And what we'll see is a huge spike appear of near dangerous levels. But they only last for certain amounts of time. And it's random as to when and where they are actually. So we don't

know why this is and what's causing it. But we've been looking and noticing that there might be some correlation with when we see UAP phenomena that we are also seeing these spikes in the gamma rays. have had those types of spikes if you set something up in like my backyard, that's not Skinwalker

Ranch. Are those normal just because I'm not Dr. Travis Taylor: there gamma rays on top of university buildings all over and there's a undergraduate physics labs where they build the gamma ray detectors and run and do experience. Now you'll get spikes, but only, you know, two or three times normal background, which is completely

safe levels. Because they're you know, the sun will Burpo you know, solar flare every now and then you'll get, you'll get something a black hole somewhere will spit out some gamma rays or muons that are moving real fast to hit the upper atmosphere and create these things. But in general, no. If you do start seeing gamma rays in your house, you probably got radon gas, and

you need to take care of that, right. So it's really odd that this happens within this 500 acre place, the way it does now qualify that, you know, I don't have a gamma ray detector 10 miles off the ranch to see, but we do have them in there are some in other places. And the actually the Weather Service NOAA has them in places that they were put out during the Cold War, to see if the the Russians were doing above ground nuclear testing and stuff, and to measure that kind of thing.

So you know, there's nothing that tells me that this is a phenomenon is happening anywhere except near these events. Gotcha. Last point I want to deal with you is essentially the future. You have now gone into the private sector, it was reported, you're working at a company called radiance technologies, right? That's correct. And you are working with Jay Stratton, who we've talked about a lot through the last hour or so as leading the UAP task force. Now you guys

are together in the private sector. There's a lot of rumors about that a lot of speculation that radiants is either. And I've seen it I'm not even making this up that you guys are reverse engineering alien spacecraft, that you guys are going for UAP investigative contracts. And I've also heard that there's nothing going on, I've looked, I can't find anything. I found some other radiants technology contracts and stuff that the DoD posted publicly, but nothing UAP

related. And that's normal. It's a very successful company. So that being said, let's deal with the rumors. Are you guys doing UAP work? Dr. Travis Taylor: Well, what we're doing is we're continuing to do work that we've done our entire careers, right, we have expertise that we've built up, and that's what they hired us

for. radiants does a lot of different things, from directed energy to some advanced propulsion to foreign military equipment, exploitation, you know, so you know, if they were the company to go to say, if you had a downed, you know, Russian or Chinese asset, and you wanted to figure out what it was and what it was doing. You know, we're the kind of company to do that. Now, we, to my knowledge, I haven't seen a UFO in a hangar somewhere yet, but you know, I'd be happy to get one and start

reverse engineering it. And my personal motivation is Yes, I do want to continue doing the work. And my plan is to continue interacting with the same community I've interacted with my entire career, and continue to offer what subject matter expertise I've gathered to that. And because it's fun work, and it's it's a moral imperative to it. I mean, you know, what, are these things? Are they are they friendly? Are they foe? Do they don't care? I mean, are they benevolent, malicious? We don't

know, I have no idea what these things are. So I'm going to continue to research them and try to figure it out. And radiants has a, you know, a lot of fun working and our president said in an interview with George Knapp, I think it was that it would be happy to reverse engineer and alien spacecraft if we were, you know, given the opportunity. So that's the way

yeah, I'm not I'm not confirming or denying. I'm not saying I'm not confirming or denying, denying, I'm saying, sure if the work comes along, I'm going to do it right. Well, I gotta probe you a little bit pardon to put on that you can't confirm or deny. So you can't know yea, or nay on UAP work? Dr. Travis Taylor: Oh, well, I can say that. Nobody's. So let me let me put it to you like this. You know, nobody is paying me right now from a government standpoint, to do any UAP work.

And but it doesn't mean that I'm not. I don't want to do it. And it doesn't mean that I wouldn't do it if the opportunity arose. Let's just leave it leave it at that. But I will tell you that it's my personal goal to be. I don't know if people watching this will be old enough to remember the adventures of Jonny Quest. But since I was a kid, it was my goal to be Dr. Benton quest. so that when the alien spacecraft spider crashes on the island that they call me to go to it and see what it is, and

figure out how to stop the thing, right. And so and I haven't given up on that dream, even though that was a long time ago. So maybe that's the best way to leave that. I'll leave it alone. Take as much time as you want, because I like I said, want to respect it. So I'm out of time. But I did want to get your thoughts on the current effort. And again, this is just as a private citizen, you looking out from the outside and take as much time as you want,

if any at all. But do you want to comment on the current standing of the DOD? S UAP. research effort with arrow where they're going? The report is late. Obviously, something's going on. Got any thoughts on that? Dr. Travis Taylor: Sure. I mean, I don't I don't read anything into the report. Being late man, I worked for the government for 27 years. And as a contractor for another 10. On top of that,

and reports are late. Let's just just keep that in mind as not that as people are always mandated by law by Congress, and they why is it Congress? Well, look at all the turmoil Congress is going through right now. They don't know who's going to be in charge. They don't know who's doing what. So I suspect this is not something high on their to do list until after, you know, there's not even a budget in place yet. And we probably won't

have a budget till January or February. And I suspect at that point, once they have a sigh of relief, after they figure that part out, then someone else Oh, yeah, we were supposed to have that gap. That arrow briefing by now. Right? So I'm gonna go check on that. And I suspect that's exactly what's happening with it. Now, as far as the team that's doing it, it's probably

was mostly people that were they were doing it before. And then there's some new people that were brought in to this new office, it's new Arrow office to my understanding, and they all seem like top notch, you know, people that have this their career they there. They don't have any disingenuousness. I think about what they're doing. And I don't even know if it's them that's in the delay of the process, I suspect is just, it's

just a big thing to get done. And a lot of people had to sign off on it before they can package it up and walk it across the river to the Capitol building. And I suspect that really is it. It's really just a matter of, you know, and I know that the turnovers go always they're covering up you don't want to say that says they're breaking the law, they haven't done it. It's not I guarantee you, it's nothing like that. It

is simply the quagmire of getting stuff done. Day to day, especially this time of year in the government where you got holidays, there's no budget signed, and just after an election where nobody knows who's doing what. Right. So there's a lot of moving parts there. Yeah, and none of us really know of OD and I called the congressional committee or committees and said, Hey, by the way, we're going to be late, and kind of set that up. And

everybody's prepared for it. And UFO Twitter had Dr. Travis Taylor: heard through the grapevine that I think everybody's cordial about it. Yeah, I think everybody knows, and it's, and it's, maybe somebody should do a press release or something. Hey, yeah, we know it's coming. Yeah. And, you know, we lost our number two pencil, and we're trying to get another one or something. I don't know. But yeah, we're currently sharpening I asked

ODNI. Yesterday, if if that was actually the case, if Congress was made aware of just kind of giving them an out, they are completely mum, they just won't contact like, comment at all, Dr. Travis Taylor: I suspect that in most cases in the government, Look, you can't go and talk. So like I said, I was gonna record forever, you cannot say something in public, as a government official, well, that haven't gone through, you know, three lawyers and four program managers and SES is and bosses

and generals. And so I honestly think it's easier for them not to say anything at this point, and then just bear with the the onslaught of bad press. Yeah. And I but I think that the conspiracies that that form outside actually is making our side look a little bit more silly, because everybody creates these conspiracies. And then later, we learn Yeah, ODNI, called on October 29, and said, Hey, by the way, it's going to be late Congress says, Yeah, we don't really care. And that's it. You

know, there's nothing exciting about it. Yeah. The general public takes over and makes up the own story. But yeah, I Dr. Travis Taylor: have no knowledge of that. That has happened. But it wouldn't surprise me though. Yeah, I suspect that's what the case is it this is. This is a clearly logistics issue. It's not a conspiracy theory issue. I'll get to that. Yeah. Well, Dr. Taylor, I can't thank you

enough. Obviously, I blew through my schedule a time I really did want to respect the time that you allotted for me today to come on the show. I know not everybody wants to come on this show. And to your credit, I hope you don't mind me saying this. You had zero requirements for me meaning

saying On, don't ask this or stay away from that. So the audience doesn't formulate any kind of, you know, rumors, you are great, you know, and I really do appreciate your openness for me because I do get entwined in those questions that are thrown your way as I'm the big, mean skeptic guy, most of which is unfounded by a thank you for that Dr. Travis Taylor: like to, I'd like to throw into that, John, and I appreciate you being very forthright with everything and

being real honest with you about all that. But I want people to realize that, you know, I'm not getting rich off of this. I mean, I'm making middle class comfortable living like any other sciences engineer in the country. And, and but I'm personally motivated, I've been a very patriotic since I was a kid, I see this as a moral imperative that maybe it's a threat to our country, maybe it's an opening to a whole new

level of humanity, right? So I'm driven to figure out what this is, and I'm not gonna I'm not trying to keep things covered up or conspiracies or anything like that. And, you know, now, I certainly will not violate anything that will affect national security or any of my oaths. But, you know, I'm just a guy that, you know, that happened to be lucky enough to get that job and do the work. Right. Well, I do appreciate it. And thank you, and I hope that you'll come back. I've got 32,000 Other

questions I didn't get to ask. But, but again, joking aside, I do appreciate it. And thank you for that and hopefully you will come Dr. Travis Taylor: back. You're very welcome. And absolutely, just let me know. I appreciate that. And thank you all for listening and or watching. This is John Greenewald, Jr, signing off, and we will see you next time.