The Climate Crisis, CBDCs, & Government Control - Tom Nelson (THE Bitcoin Podcast)

we're seeing is it's a manufactured crisis and then they have all these solutions ready to go and we can probably dig into that with the central bank digital currency that Richard Linsen has said that something about if you can control CO2 you can control everything about our lives and they for sure want to reduce the amount of meat that you buy in a month and the number of times you fly and the type of car you drive and just they want to control everything based on this

whole idea that CO2 is causing bad weather but that whole basis we need to go back to the basic problem is that there is no climate crisis it's all a crock and nothing that we do none of this control all of this money spent none of it's going to prevent any bad weather at all in 2075 or ever so the whole thing we should need to push back hard against the the whole thing greetings and salutations my fellow plebs my name is walker and this is the bitcoin podcast

the bitcoin time chain is 867193 and the value of one bitcoin is still one bitcoin today's episode is bitcoin talk where i talk with my guest about bitcoin and whatever else comes up and today that guest is tom nelson tom is a climate and energy realist and the producer of climate the movie tom and i get into a bunch of rabbit holes today from the climate narrative to government control and cbdc's subsidies creating market distortions the intellectual elites and

their role in pushing government narratives energy human flourishing bitcoin mining and a whole lot more before we dive in do me a favor and subscribe to the bitcoin podcast wherever you're watching or listening give the show a boost on fountain if you find it valuable and if you're not listening to it on fountain what are you doing you can earn bitcoin just for listening to the show check out bitcoinpodcast.net for episodes and additional resources head to the show notes to grab links

for my sponsor bitbox and other partners or go to bitbox.swiss slash walker and use the promo code walker for five percent off and send an email to hello at bitcoinpodcast.net if you have feedback or if you're interested in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast without further ado let's get into this bitcoin talk with tom nelson i'm still very new to this whole live streaming game but i figure you know it's a it's a nice way to interact with folks on noster and uh yeah i kind of like uh i've

gotten just i don't know youtube is not my favorite platform i honestly i hate the fact that you seem to have to kind of like whore yourself out to the algorithm yeah so to speak and it's just i don't know something about it just rubs me the wrong way and so uh i've if i'm going to live stream i'm going to do it on on noster only so by the way do we have restrictions on we shouldn't swear or i mentioned anything that's not youtube friendly oh no fuck that you can yeah we can we can we can

swear uh we can mention anything you know i figure it's only a matter of time before youtube decides to uh to remove me um for you know daring daring to swear too much and uh you know saying other things that probably go against their community guidelines which is quite easy to do i'm sure you've probably run afoul of that i have a timer too i was interested though effray just did something that left got left up on youtube but she said that the vax is poison and she was using the f word and

stuff and whatever youtube left it up for at least three days a couple three days wait they they it's still up or they took it down after so it's still up after maybe two days it's still up it doesn't have a lot of views but i thought the algorithm immediately if you call it poison that uh you're off but i guess not well right they generally don't uh don't tend to like that i mean i uh i don't know i i know the i don't know if you know the simply bitcoin guys they got a deep platform

from youtube i think this was probably about a month ago a little over a month ago now and they i mean they pretty much stick to to bitcoin and you know maybe some other things that could potentially be deemed conspiracy theories or maybe it's talking negatively about the federal reserve that gets you in hot water i don't know but it seems like their community i mean that's the thing about those community guidelines in terms and conditions there however many

hundreds of pages long nobody's ever gonna read all of them and they can guaranteed twist something that says oh you broke it in this way higher percent i mean it's guilty until proven innocent it's like you've got to submit the appeal you've got to go through it but i mean that's why i'm grateful places like noster exists because there's no one to say uh hey that that goes against our community guidelines it's like there there are no community guidelines so i love that yeah tough

shit but but tom thanks for coming on here you know i've i've i've followed you for a number of years uh on the platform formerly known as twitter on x and so it was it was great to connect with you i think after i released the show with efferot because i know you uh you know efferot she's a great connector of people i think but it's great to have you here on the show again been following your work you've been doing it for quite a while i've probably only followed for maybe it's it was

when i started going down the rabbit hole of huh a lot of this climate quote science stuff doesn't make a lot of sense i need to find some people who seem to be more realistic and honest about this so that i can dig deeper into this yeah yeah i've been podcasting for just over two years and before that way before that i was on blog spot and i was on just twitter mostly for quite a while so yeah i've been digging into this whole climate thing for i don't know what it's approaching 20

years now but yeah that's that's that's longer than i've been uh been digging into it you know i oh i'd love to just kind of uh to start out a little bit with just a simple question so for folks that don't know you just who are you how did you get here today to be you know uh i believe you you class but as a climate and energy realist uh and and a bit coiner how did you how did you what was your path here yeah so i would say until maybe 2005 i was a total normie where i would just

believe whatever the tv told me i'm so embarrassed looking back that whatever i i've changed my opinions on many things now that i've looked into stuff for myself but at 2005 i was a bird watcher and there was this big announcement in 2005 that the the ivory build woodpecker had been rediscovered it was a huge woodpecker bigger than a piliated and they had rediscovered it down in arkansas and uh there was a peer reviewed paper with 17 authors and it got tons of publicity

it was on npr when people heard about it they were overcome with emotion and they pulled off to the side of the road and cried and stuff and the whole thing was bullshit 100 percent i checked into it and it was amazing amounts of groupthink that people just saw something fly by and they thought it was an ivory bill and uh they had a picture of it and it was six pixels it was two blacks and then two whites and two blacks that's it six pixels and they're going hey this is our

proof of an ivory bill completely insane and uh when i pushed back against it people would say hey you're not an ornithologist who are you to push back against this but i i did this on blog spot i pushed back and it became became a place where people a lot of people in the comment section were pushing back saying this is crazy they didn't see it so that was the whole my introduction to peer reviewed science being total bullshit so right at that time some guy emailed me and he said you

know i've followed this controversy and i'm following the global warming controversy you should check into that one so so i did he said again if you look into the data for yourself you're going to find out that it doesn't back up the narrative at all and i did as i looked into it you can go down any rabbit hole you want global warming wise and the data doesn't back up the climate crisis at all there's nothing there at all it's pretty amazing well it's i uh did not expect woodpeckers to be the

your your entrance to uh you know these uh these very dangerous uh and and uh troublesome conspiracy theories as they would be labeled but so we're alone that journey did you end up finding bitcoin because i i actually i only discovered you were also a bit coiner uh more recently and i was like oh well that that kind of makes sense also that that it was not terribly surprising but i was glad to see it yeah i guess i didn't tell you my whole journey i stopped it in about 2006 but i worked

to go i worked on the ivory bill for a while and then i started switching over i got kind of got bored with that and switched over to the climate change thing and just for a long time i was just aggregating stuff i was just reading everything using google news and stuff and aggregating all these crazy claims and what i started doing is just going down to each rabbit hole like for a while the big thing was uh co2 or climate change was really bad for polar bears so i checked into that

and that's totally not true that there's way more polar bears now than there were in the 70s way more and a way bigger factor is hunting we're still killing maybe 900 polar bears per year uh with legal hunting just shooting them and that's because uh there's plenty of them and we can shoot that many and that we still are not going to make them go extinct the whole idea that it's too warm for polar

bears and that they're in trouble in any way because of co2 it's a total crock and i went down every rabbit hole like with crop yields you can look at wheat yields and corn yields around the world and uh they're going up and to the right constantly and more warmth and more co2 is for sure it's good for crop yields so that's a total crock but you can look at cyclones and you look uh hurricanes drought floods anything you constantly seeing to this day uh anytime there's bad weather somewhere

we're supposed to think that the weather's getting worse co2 caused it there's a climate crisis and we have to print more money to whatever do all this green energy crap in order to permit bad weather in 2050 the whole thing is a crock and as i say uh catastrophic human cause global warming is the most massive scientific fraud in human history it is there's been some other ones recently uh virus related but yeah it's just a massive fraud it's enormous amounts of

group think i think a lot of people that are pushing this actually believe in it but if you're just an ordinary person you have access to a google and you can look up some stuff for yourself as you dig into it you're going to find out it is a crock and part of the reason why i enjoy pushing back is it's so easy pushing back because they're constantly making claims and that you can spend two minutes and find out that that it's a crock so then i did this for many years and then

um at some point uh both marty bent and uh safety somehow they were following me and they both invited me on their podcast so that was absolutely my introduction to bitcoin i didn't know i didn't know who safety was i'm sorry to say it's quite an intro uh as far as people yeah people to introduce you to it that's pretty you know who marty bent was but yeah i went on their podcast and i started thinking well maybe i should look into this and um i did i read safety's book and i started listening

to the podcast and digging into it and i put a lot of hours into it i think michael sailor says you should put in a hundred hours i put in way more than that at some point i started tiptoeing into it and getting more and more into it and um uh f rat fenningston fenningston has been a big uh influence on me she's introduced me to a lot of people i think i ended up talking to you because uh she was on your podcast so yeah i've been to a couple conferences now and i've been i have a few

i have a few contacts in the bitcoin world now and just totally loving it every time i have a free time now uh very often i'm listening to bitcoin podcasts and digging into it digging into the whole money printing thing and uh i'm kind of waking up on a lot of issues now well it's you know it's perfect that you bring up money printing because i think that this is one of those when we look at uh let's say the climate science industry because that's really what it is right it's an it's an industry

that is made up of both intellectuals and an army of consultants and lobbyists and companies that are profiting massively from all of this and all of this is basically the majority of this uh you know the tech that is put out there or you know supposed to be put out there is funded by government subsidies like so much of it is government grants to the academics government subsidies to the companies you look at the massive numbers that they're throwing out there and that all just

that all just comes down to bloated monetary supply leading to bad incentives right because when there's easy cheap money out there that you just have to say a few magic words and you can get your hands on a piece of that sweet pile of cash well you know you'd be stupid not to right i mean i i wouldn't just because i you know wouldn't want to try and be truthful but i think you're right that some people i'm of course genuinely uh believe what they are selling other people i think

know exactly what they are doing and that they are being dishonest and so yeah i want to there's there's there's a lot to dig dig into on there um i think one of the most interesting things to me is that it seems that always uh capitalism is blamed capitalism is the bogeyman free markets are the bogeyman and so the only solution is for governments to step in to subsidize the the the good industries to punish the bad ones and it doesn't matter if you're you know uh john smith

in the rust belt we're going to tell you you probably shouldn't have a you know a gas stove because that's bad for the you know bad for the climate uh i guess when you start talking to people about this who who may be skeptics or i should say skeptics of the skeptics um how do you like actually begin this conversation because it's it's quite a i mean it's a a heated topic for a lot of people because so much of the literature out there is treated as dogma like that if there's a consensus

the science is settled if you even dare to bring up a question you're clearly anti science you're against the climate you want to burn the planet down you bad person yeah what i like to do is just look at specific examples at actual data like right now it's there's nice weather in october and you see people on twitter going oh no i'm wearing shorts in october when i was a kid i remember it was cold in october i just saw that in the last hour or so but all you have to do is look at the

data so i looked up the data here for minnesota where i am and all the records here for the last 12 days of october all of them were set before the year 2000 a lot of them were set in whatever 1955 or whatever so i think looking at that historical data is so important because it was really warm in the past in the u.s for sure it was way warmer in the 1930s than it has been since then for whatever reason again in minnesota in the 1930s 1940s it hit 100 degrees here or higher 38

times and since 1988 it's more like eight times total since then it just hasn't gotten that warm for whatever reason so this whole idea that warm weather right now proves anything or a storm right now proves anything it absolutely doesn't and a guy that's really good to listen to is tony heller he's tony climate on on x and he has for years he's been digging into old newspaper clippings etc and just looking at how bad the weather was and how hot it was in the past so the only way you

can panic about what's happening now is if you don't know what happened in the past so i think it's very key to just look at what's happened in the past and that's going to make people i think anybody who listens to you will not panic if they realize how bad the floods and the droughts etc were in the past so many horrible things have happened in the u.s like the pesto go fire happened in 1871 horrible fire nothing like that has happened since then the galveston hurricane in 1900 again

it killed maybe 8 000 people nothing like that has happened in the u.s since then so yeah i think that's the most important thing just look at the data you don't have to understand atmospheric physics you don't have to be a climatologist ordinary person looking at the data you can figure out there's nothing there if you want to protect yourself from totalitarian cb ecs you need unconfiscatable money i.e bitcoin but bitcoin on an exchange isn't really yours so go to

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slash walker and use the promo code walker not only do you get five percent off but you also help support this podcast so seriously thank you well and i think there in comes the role of the academics right the the paid academics who are funded and get all this research money because they say the right things and they have a preordained consensus that they you know it's not that they're searching for an answer it's that they have the answer and they're searching for the

information to back up the answer right yeah but that's their role basically is we are manufacturing crisis and this doesn't like this goes across all aspects not just related to weather and climate but it's manufacture crisis manufacture consensus and then manufacture a state of control and that state of control is very real as opposed to the crisis and the and the consensus and so is this kind of what what you've seen happening is there any trend away from this in the academic world

that you've seen or is it is it still largely captured that's a great question i mean for sure that's what we're seeing is it's a manufactured crisis and then we they have all these solutions ready to go and we can probably dig into that with the central bank digital currency that Richard Linsen has said that something about if you can control co2 you can control everything about our lives and they for sure want to reduce the amount of meat that you buy in a month and the

number of times you fly and the the type of car you drive and just they want to control everything based on this whole idea that co2 is causing bad weather but that whole basis we need to go back to the basic problem is that there is no climate crisis it's all a crock and nothing that we do none of this control all of this money spent none of it's going to prevent any bad weather at all in 2075 or ever so the whole thing we should need to push back hard against the the whole thing but

in terms of the academic world and publishing there are tons of papers that are published every year right now that push back against this there's a site i can put i can give you the link later but there's hundreds of papers each year there's a guy that compiles those and many academic papers don't support this at all the whole idea is that there's supposed to be this 97 consensus and if you look in the peer reviewed literature you'll find out that there's a climate crisis you won't

find that either there's no paper at all that says that there's a climate crisis and here's why and there's no paper that proves that co2 is the climate control knob so if we crank up co2 we know what the temperature is going to be there's no paper at all that proves that because it's not even drew so yeah if you dig into this you'll find out that even in the peer review literature there there's no backing for any of this fear how did where did the arrival at co2 be being the climate control

knob where did that where did that come from because i think like we can all agree that you know like pollution is bad right like yes like nobody wants pollution but i think that sort of gets lumped in with any sort of industrial activity you know that produces co2 is bad and any sort of energy you know usage that produces co2 is bad and by the way you human being who produce co2 you're bad like how when where did the co2 thing actually come from where they started looking at

and saying nope co2 is what we have to focus on that's that's the thing as opposed to like why isn't a bigger deal made of methane you know why did co2 get this like this gold star of approval okay yeah there's many parts of that question i want to answer all the parts i think people say there's a guy named marie strong that maybe in the 1980s or so he was the one that was kind of searching for a problem that they could use to get this globalist control of us all so that may

be one of the first times when this was really pushed on us in the 1980s there's a guy there's a jakup nordengard from from europe he's been on my podcast a couple times and he's done i think the best job of really digging into the origin of this whole thing like where did this really come from and i think he points to it the rock of fellers and marie strong and at some point um al gore seized on the whole thing that was quite a bit later but there's a new movie by joel gilbert

that just came out about al gore that's talking about how al gore seized on this thing as a way to get political power etc and al gore wasn't interested in this subject at all until he found out he could use it politically and i think from my perspective there was a big push a big resurgence of this scam in when an inconvenient truth came out around 2006 or seven or so i think if you look at google

searches google trends you can see that people were really into this whole alleged scam right around then a lot of people i've talked to said i watched that movie and my mind was blown i believed it and i believe there was a crisis a lot of people who are big time skeptics now saw the movie back then and they believed it at first like i kind of even believed it uh at first that uh co2 was a problem so a lot of us have believed and then looked into the data for ourselves and found out it's not a

problem but in terms of co2 being pollution uh there's about 425 parts per million co2 in the air right now and you and i are exhaling about 40 000 parts per million about 100 times that so when you're talking to your plants in your house you're giving them a little extra co2 and the co2 is great for the plant it's not pollution at all it's a very it's a key to photosynthesis will haper says that the co2 in a growing cornfield in the summer it might be 425 in the morning when the corn

starts waking up and starts doing photosynthesis it might be 200 parts per million a little later just a few hours later because the corn is just feeding off the co2 it's incredibly important so the whole idea that it's pollutant or that it's black smoke coming out of a smokestack we're supposed to think that's carbon pollution but it's not it's uh co2 is invisible it's harmless it's colorless and this whole fight against co2 is like fighting oxygen or water just completely

crazy and to spend 40 trillion dollars and give up our freedom for this whatever it's uh it is a massive scam the i want to dig into kind of some of the the numbers around this too and go down that path of cbdcs as well because that's i think a huge huge part of this but before i want to double back a little bit because i was recently watched the movie that you produced climate the movie aptly named and you know one of the things that you guys showed a chart in there that was basically

showing that you know if co2 was in fact the climate control knob you would expect a co2 rising to proceed temperature rising but in fact if you look at all of this data from you know you're looking all these ice core samples data over millions of years temperature rises first and then co2 goes up do i have that correct you do have that correct yeah yeah and it is very complicated but the theory is is that when the temperature goes up that the ocean's warm and

that they can't hold as much co2 so they slowly start outgassing co2 so the warmth happens first then as the co2 comes out of the ocean then the co2 goes up second so again this whole cause and effect thing is wrong and the whole idea that we can tweak co2 and make stuff happen we can't that's not how it works at all it's not how it works yeah the the thing with the all that ice core data is kind of mind-blowing just because that would seem to be such an obvious refutation

of co2 being the climate control knob based on actual empirical data that it's like you don't see that talked about very often though i don't maybe there's a few academic papers about it but probably not the ones that are getting published in you know science magazine and nature magazine and that those kind of you know uh those lauded places yeah it's pretty amazing that just that blows the whole thing out of the water just that there's so many other ways to blow it out of the

water but then you don't even have to go to ice cores you can just look at the real temperature data for the 20th century even and you can see it warmed from 1910 to 1940s in the 1940s then it cooled so after world war two as we had a industry really cranked up we emitted a lot of co2 for 30 years we emitted enormous co2 and the climate went the other way it cooled quite a bit for 30 years and after that it went up so even in the 20th century there's there's no correlation co2 for sure

wasn't the climate control knob even in the 20th century so it just doesn't work and even starting in maybe 97 or so we had what they called a hiatus where for maybe 14 years or something uh for whatever reason we emitted an enormous amount of co2 then and the temperature didn't go up so even then that correlation didn't hold so there's no reason to expect it will hold for the rest of this century I think we're going to continue burning fossil fuel and co2 is going to continue to go

up I think but I think the the temperature on earth is going to fluctuate up and down I don't know where you know I don't know I can't predict it but it always has gone up and down on many different many different cycles short-term cycles long-term cycles sometimes the cycles line up and it gets really warm sometimes the cycles line up the other way it gets really cold you can't really predict it ahead of time but my prediction for the rest of the century is it's going to be warm

it's going to be cold it's going to fluctuate it's just not going to we can't just if we know the co2 we're not going to know the temperature because again that's not how it works it's interesting to because it seems to me that there's a lot of hubris involved here yes where people think that ah yes we have figured out this magic control knob for the climate and we as the you know the anointed intellectuals are of course smart enough to be able to figure out just how to fine tune that

control knob and if we just issue enough carbon credits and if we just geo-engineer enough and maybe we put a bunch of sulfur dioxide out into the atmosphere and maybe we just block out the sun for a little while what's the worst that could happen and we'll save humanity thank thank goodness thank thank goodness and you know give us a Nobel Peace Prize for all of this meanwhile you have this giant ball of fire that gives us all life and warms us out there that goes the sun goes

through solar cycles right yes and can you talk about that a little bit because I think that's something that people don't understand these solar minimums and solar maximums and the fact that again you've got this giant ball of fire that from an unimaginably far distance away can literally burn your skin and yet people are like no that that can't be the cause of any of this this warming you know it can't possibly be these massive flares coming out yeah one interesting thing is that the

activity on the sun seems to have a major impact on the cloudiness on earth it's very complicated but there's cosmic rays coming in here and they affect the amount of clouds that are forming and everybody on both sides of the debate they admit that clouds are a huge unknown we don't really understand them they're incredibly hard to model but for sure we can see that the solar activity affects clouds and that probably is a way bigger impact on any on the temperature than anything

that we're doing so cloudiness is very important solar activity is very important and there are there's cycles in sunspots and sometimes the sun's very quiet and we have things maybe a minimum where people say that a minimum in solar activity caused a cold period in the europe where you could have ice flares on the Thames the ice I think got to be 11 inches thick on the river in London there back when there was low solar activity it got really cold and since then I think maybe the last

time the ice was there was maybe in the late 1800s anyway changes in the sun affected a lot and the sun has been very active lately coinciding with this warm period that kind of peaked recently and I think Willie Suin would agree and many other people on my podcast would agree that this modern solar maximum is probably a major reason for the recent warmth we've had but I like to say that the recent warmth we've had it's not a bad thing at all we're supposed to think that

we really want to cool the planet because our lives would get better if we went back to the temperatures in 1850 but that is a total crock too because if you read up what happened during the little ice age which happened a couple hundred years ago or a little more life was life was not good on earth people were having to eat things that weren't food because there were there were short growing seasons and it was a lot harder to uh to care for your family when during cold periods

and there's a reason why all through human history they've called warm periods optimums because warmth is better for life on earth that doesn't mean we want the oceans to boil that's too warm but in all the fluctuations we've had in the last 10 000 years or more warmth has been way better than cold and there's been times in the past where the glaciers were advancing on churches in europe and people were praying that the glaciers would stop advancing before they got down to the

church so there's been times of glaciers advancing and and retracing and nothing we do causes that of course but uh I think there's no reason to believe that they're not going to advance again and right where I'm sitting right now not that long ago in geological time uh in time periods there was a one mile of ice over the top of here one mile of ice over the chicago area so those times are probably coming back at some point I don't think we can prevent it but

it happens ice ages come and go and uh co2 is not the driver of them well that little ice age that you uh that you mentioned that kind of that little medieval ice age I think people people forget that what was a big product that came out of that was literal witch hunts yes the the witch hunts literally came because they thought that the witches were making the crops fail and we're making it colder and we're making life just miserable for them and we're leading to famine

it was not in fact uh the the witches because they weren't witches um but I think that this is such an interesting parallel that you see now we kind of have uh it seems that we're doing the witch hunt in advance of any crisis it's like we're we're uh we're running ahead of ourselves you know usually human beings wait until the crisis and then they go after you know the quote witches um for daring to blaspheme the weather gods and creating this ice age but now it seems that the the witch hunt

is happening in advance and I suppose it's the manufactured crisis being used as an excuse for witch hunts and people may say oh well you know we're not burning at anyone at the stake we're not you know do anything like that but well you know give it time hopefully not but it is very interesting that you still have this sort of intellectual witch hunt happening among the academic circles where you have a lot of uh you know professors and scientists who have had to either leave their

professions or had to you know basically uh you know bend the knee or say you know what I'm done with this and I'm going to go speak my mind elsewhere and I don't need this grant money anymore it just feels like this intellectual bullying around this changing narrative and that ultimately the the goal of all of this is more control right that's what it comes down to is being able to increase the amount of control that government and institutions have on individuals to say like you

said you know you can't eat that meat uh you can't can't drive this kind of car you can't fly in a plane that often uh we can only fly in private jets when we go to our climate conferences that's the only time you're allowed to do that and but it also feels like at the same time people are kind of beginning to push back more because there is so much access to information they can't control that informational funnel the information's just out there and so enough free thinking people will

say hey something seems fishy here I don't buy this um and you know also why is it why is it just us you know us plebs that are needing to change everything about the way we do meanwhile you all of you in your ivory towers are still just going about your business as if as if nothing was actually the matter is there really a crisis here or are you just trying to tell me what to do and that gives me a little hope that people seem to be waking up not again not just here but uh you know

certain viruses that shall not be named uh you know money itself people are questioning these things and they're pushing back against these narratives that have been shoved down their throats for so long that they're just kind of sick of it and they're saying you know what I'm not buying this anymore is that is that the feeling you're getting kind of of this like we're having a bit of a it feels like a changing time right now where people are not as willing to just drink the kool-aid so to speak

from the government and from the intellectuals yeah I 100% agree with that that's what the elites want they went for the great reset and what they got was the great awakening I think that is what happened and I've had a lot of people come up to me personally in real life and online saying that um I believed in this stuff I believe in the climate scam until this virus thing came through and that woke me up because I found out we were being lied to over and over there so then I looked

around and said what else are they lying to us about and the answer is just about everything I think there's that story has been repeated over and over and that makes me really happy one thing also is that I've been on x and online looking at the replies for close to 20 years now and there was a time when I felt way more alone than now it seemed like almost everybody was into it but now it makes me so happy as people put crazy stuff crazy claims up on x you see person after person

saying this is wrong this is why it's wrong and tons of people I've never heard of are really pushing back and they're taking an active role I think it's great that every so many people are pushing back personally because it's so important to push back if we just let them roll over us and implement the CBDC based on this scam it's going to make our lives so much worse so it makes me happy that so many people are pushing back I also wanted to go back and talk

about what you said about the witch hunts because the number I heard is 50 000 witches witches were burned and again this whole idea that bad weather is caused by people that you don't like that for sure it happened then and I'm hearing that the academic elites were in favorite of this back then that the witch hunts yep good idea it's pretty amazing but going way back I think that maybe the Aztecs were blaming when there were droughts that they would cut people's hearts out

and it happened quite a bit in history and one thing about that is it worked because there's bad weather and there's a period of bad weather whatever you do it's eventually going to go away and you can say hey we did these sacrifices and now they it rained again it's so you're welcome and I think there might be some something like that going on here that when the climate crisis whatever the weather never does get worse the Al Gore types will say hey you're welcome again

it would have been way worse if we wouldn't have done that stuff or wouldn't you know give them didn't give money to climate scammers that we would have had had the apocalypse but we didn't so yeah I think that it may play out that way I don't know well yeah I think it's a fairly safe bet to say that if their predictions don't come true they will be patting themselves on the back even though they had nothing to do with it you know but I want to I want to get into CBDs a

little bit because I think this is such a central part of this larger narrative and CBDs see central bank digital currencies obviously evolved as a response to Bitcoin being in this world you know this this is a direct response I think to that in a realization that ah wow here's this freedom money this this money that promotes individual sovereignty that no one can control but what if we took the you know just a little bit of that and stripped out all the freedom and stripped out

all the decentralization and all the sovereignty benefits and we just used it to control people now wouldn't that be swell and now you see this there's that guy uh Michael Evans uh this was at like in Davos in 2022 there's that that clip of him I Carlos used it in a few of the videos that we've put together but he talks about individual carbon footprint trackers and literally he says where are they traveling how are they traveling what are they eating and he's so gleeful he's

like we can we can control all of this we'll know all of it and then we can stop them from spending their you know their their credits their coupons their cbdc coupons on anything we don't like isn't that marvelous and you you hear a guy talk like that and talk about it in such a gleeful way and it's like oh my god some of these people are just genuinely sick they genuinely think these unwashed masses cannot possibly know what's good for them so we have to tell them what's good for them and

the only way that we can tell them and make sure they follow through is if we control their money and so I'm curious kind of how you as someone who's been watching this space for a lot longer do you see cbdc is coming into the picture now as just kind of a natural evolution of this like of course they're they weren't going to be able to control people enough so they needed to actually go and control the money if they were going to make any of these lofty you know 20 30 50 year plans

actually work or work in quotes I should say yeah I think you're absolutely right I think they actually see themselves as they're better than us the unwashed they understand this climate crisis and us little people were too stupid so for our own good they have to control us I do think that's how delusional they are but I can't believe that guy I saw that same clip I think today that he's all gleeful about it he thinks that normal people are going to watch that and think yeah

yeah hooray for you thank you for controlling me because I know that you know better than I do I don't know does he not actually speak to real people in real life do they live in a cocoon where they think that this is going to go over well it's amazing I don't know how out of touch a guy can be but that blows my mind that he would do that well same year I think sometimes they forget that they're on camera and that like they're they think that they're actually just talking to

a room of their you know intellectual and you know anointed peers and so they can just actually speak their mind and then they forget that oh this goes out on you know on the internet where anyone can find it and can make nice little clips of it taking the absolute most insane things that you say and putting them together in a digestible couple minute video and it turns out that normal people don't like it when you say oh we're going to control every aspect of a person's

life and we're going to do it by controlling their money and we're going to create a coupon that expires if you don't spend it fast enough and a coupon that only works for certain things and it surely does not work for meat because meat is bad of course but we're still going to eat meat because we won't tell you this but meat is really good for you but it's bad for you you shouldn't eat meat eat our soylent green eat our you know impossible burgers and just you know be a be a good little

surf and and do as you're told and then you'll be you know you'll own nothing and you'll be happy and everything will be just fine like but it's insane and and normal people do not look at this and say oh yeah that sounds good okay yep you know i'll comply i think some people perhaps do but i think the majority of people say no fuck that you're not going to tell me how to live my life and i sure as hell don't want you controlling my money at least that's that's my feeling of it

maybe i'm around too many bitcoiners though who knows no one thing that's still it puzzles me about the climate cult it is a cult but it is a cult where even the believers can't be bothered to behave as if they actually believe it just over and over you pointed out the whole hypocrisy thing that if i actually believe that co2 might kill my beloved children and i if i fly in a plane it's going to kill my kids i would not fly in a plane but uh yeah they still do it uh if you look into

like al gore in his book says you're supposed to accomplish your long haul travel via bus we're supposed to ride in buses across the country so when's the last time that al took a bus across the country or we're supposed to not use our dryer that uses too much energy you have to line dry your clothes i mean we used to do that in the old days but it's a lot more convenient and when's the last time al went out and lined dried his own clothes so it's all about uh pushing

this stuff onto the little people and then i think even john carrey was saying that he can use uh private jets because whatever he's doing is so important that it's worthwhile and whatever you're doing is not important enough so you got to uh walk or whatever um it's just amazing that i don't know how far uh how deep their belief really is if they can't make the sacrifices themselves that part puzzles me so no i couldn't agree more and one thing that i i always look at is like you

know it's like okay if you really care about this first of all why aren't you composting like like every person who pretend you know like either pretends or really does care about this why aren't you personally composting uh why do you still have a lawn with a uniform crop of grass on it why do you not have a prairie garden why do you not have or why are you not promoting regenerative agriculture why are you not supporting small farmers why are you instead lobbying for more

control and more regulations on those small farmers in favor of the giant farming corporations all of these things that you're doing are antithetical to anybody who actually gives a shit about what you say you give a shit about and that's the that's the thing let's say you can just the hypocrisy is not masked very well like the mask seems to be off and i think at this point a lot of these people maybe have been in power for so long that they've forgotten that the game

has changed they've forgotten that the informational genie is out of the bottle that the internet exists that social media exists that decentralized social media platforms and communication protocols excuse me not platform protocol like noster exists they can't control the narrative like they once could but they still operate as though they can and they operate as though they will be able to continue to govern without the actual consent of the governed indefinitely as long as they want and

then they'll be able to you know retire to one of their 12 mansions and life will be nice and you know nice and peachy but i think that there is a reckoning coming because you can only push people so far and when you start messing with people's money you start messing with their food and when you start messing with people's food that's when revolutions happen and this is a tale as old as time and so it just feels like we're reaching this point i think around the world i mean you've seen

all the the farmer protests across the globe which i think are are great and those can't just be swept under the rug mostly because when you have you know several thousand tractors rolling down the highway it's a little hard to hide that but also because there's videos of those that are taken by thousands of individuals that are shared thousands hundreds of thousands of times and viewed millions tens of millions billions of times you you can't make that disappear you can't you know maybe you

can try to memory hole it but that's only going to work for so long and i think again i feel that we're at this point where people are are sick and tired of being fed the same bullshit by the government and the complicit media and they don't trust either one of them and they know that the intellectuals are not all of them there are many great intellectuals out there who are actually doing the work of an intellectual and of an academic uh so i don't want to cast that too

wide of a blanket there but a large part of the academic institutions are captured and they know that too and it feels like we're at this point where too many people have woken up they've you know they've they've been unplugged and and they won't go back in that pod they they refuse to and so that that gives me some hope about the future because enough people have said no i'm not buying it i'm not putting up with it and uh yeah i don't want any part of it yes that makes me think of the

thing it may have been a talker last night or very recently said that american people are not going to take this anymore and dad's home and we're not gonna i don't know if you saw that quote i didn't see it no we're not going to take it anymore yeah i think that's an important quote because i think we're not going to take it anymore and in terms of social media i wanted to mention the whole joel roe uh joe rogan the way he flipped on climate change i think it was in 2018 he had

kandace owens on there and she basically said she didn't believe in the climate scam and he was he couldn't believe it that he's what people are lying to us that he was on the alarmist side in 2018 but he's definitely flipped and as it comes up on his pods now he scoffs at it and one great thing with his huge audience he had uh he had kunan steven kunan on there who is on our side on the side of realism and he had andrew desler on there he gave them both maybe an hour plus and i just love

the fact and in this new media uh it's not just a one minute soundbite or whatever against another one minute um he had him both on there and let them all just lay out lay out their case and i think that's just wonderful that a huge audience is just hearing both sides and they can they can think about it for themselves and make their own decisions i think it's super healthy and cnn you are never going to see that on cnn so very healthy there um in terms of the farmer thing i wanted to bring up

jasper machogu a farmer from kenya have you heard that name at all he's one of my favorite people he is a guy he's in his late 20s i think and he's on sub stack and on x and he was a believer in this whole climate scam he admits um he was a kind of a green piece guy and then he read a book by patrick moore that exposed the whole thing and he uh flipped over to the side of realism so now he's a guy living in kenya he's a small farmer and for hours each day he's farming with a hoe

and uh working hard as i kind he calls himself a peasant farmer and the other part of the day he's on x and he's on sub stack putting up brilliant stuff he knows all the data he knows how much um how much fertilizers used per country and he knows uh details about climate and weather very smart guy it's just very interesting that a farmer a small farmer like that is able to get on the social media and have a big influence he's got a lot of followers he's had viral videos that have been

retweeted by big dogs and it just makes me happy just in the last couple years that he's kind of come to the forefront and i think there's a lot of stories like that again with this a whole great awakening it's for sure it's happening yeah i mean that's the beauty of decentralized media in general is that you you can't it's i've referred to uh noster specifically as a hydra before from greek mythology you know you cut off one head two come in its place but i think more broadly uh you

know whether they be podcasts or youtube channels i mean youtube can can shut you down fairly easily but it's harder to when you have so many people all producing content and maybe you're hosting that content yourself maybe it's on your own you know your own website you're able to do that whatever it may be there are too many voices for them all to be silenced and so that's where i think cbdc's also end up coming in though because they're realizing this is maybe they're starting to realize

who this whole you know free information just being out there and open it's gotten a little bit out of control maybe we need some more levers to be able to pull and i'm kind of curious what you know from the do you think that cbdc's end up being foisted on people more from the position of the kind of the the climate alarmism narrative do you think it comes from oh just this is this is actually just more convenient i mean we we've saw what happened in uh nigeria with the in ira people

just rejected it they had super i think like two percent you know uh uptick in the in the usage it was incredibly low because people just didn't trust it didn't want it but they're not going to stop this most countries in the world have cbdc pilots uh or launch cbdc's but most are in various stages of pilots where do you think this goes do you think that they end up just not being able to get the public support but even so do they care if they have public support to push this on people i mean

i kind of don't think they do i think they're going to push it but i'm curious what what you think they're their next kind of move is to be able to get this technology this totalitarian technology out into the public sphere and try to normalize it like does it come from that climate narrative of if you don't use this and we can't track everything you do everyone's going to die because the planet's

going to explode yeah i've asked other people about this on my podcast and uh i've heard that they've kind of gone all in on the climate crisis this is the thing that they're going to try to use that's the basis and they don't really have a backup plan i don't know what the next reason would be if it i don't know maybe it's health reasons or something but i do think they're going to try it i can't imagine that the people in the us will stand for it i just can't imagine

that people are going to say okay i guess i can't buy the meat i wanted to buy i think because of the second amendment i think that's a big part of it in the us that we're not going to stand for this maybe if we were unarmed that they could force this down our throats but ultimately they're not going to be able to do it but uh that doesn't mean we can just sit back and let them try i think we should fight every tooth and nail i think we should fight it all the time everywhere we can the not

just the cbdc but i think we should fight the climate scam when people bring it up by a thanksgiving dinner or whatever the your tendencies sit back and not be that guy but i think we should be that guy i think whenever it comes up i think we should say this is bullshit this is why it's bullshit and we're not going to take it anymore i think it's important now i i did too i mean it's it you know if if you as an individual do not speak up and somehow expect others to or expect the people

who you would be speaking up against to just change their minds it's not going to happen like it does start with you you know it starts with one person being willing to to be the bad guy for a little while but to speak the truth and to maybe make things a little bit uncomfortable but you know what being uncomfortable is how people get better and smarter and change in a positive way can i bring up this name do you know doc malik from the uk doc malik yeah yeah he's a guy he is a hero i would

say he is a hero he had a great job as a surgeon and he was seeing this crazy stuff happening and he had the courage to just say i'm not gonna not on my watch he just spoke out publicly against it he got enormous amounts of flak and he ended up losing his job but he's a total hero and he said you know other people say oh i you know you can speak up but i couldn't do it i would lose my job or whatever and he's saying well look at me i lost my job i think it's i think we need more people

like that i think a lot of us don't have that much to risk and still we're not speaking out but i think we should use those people they are heroes and we should follow their lead and not just make them do all the work i think all of us should do as much of that work as we can because there's so many of us actually ultimately there's so many of us and so few of these elites it's really just a tiny percentage of people that are trying to shove this down our throats we we far outnumber them

and the people with real jobs i mean a lot of this whole thing this climate scam is siphoning wealth and freedom away from real people with real jobs i think we have to see all of us who have worked in the real world and and you know want a better future for our kids it really is that important to fight back hard amen and it is one of the reasons that i'm i think to go back to your point about the second amendment yeah it is very important in america that we have that and that is why in

my opinion america america will remain the last bastion of freedom even as the rest of the world has gone to shit even though america at times seems as though it's going in a bad direction we do have those constitutional backstops and there are so many guns in america and that genuinely makes a difference because it's that last line of defense to say you know come and take it like go ahead like what you can only push people so far i think people also forget that the majority

of the the well mostly men but some women as well in the service the armed services they are not new york city trust fund babies they are you know from small towns small towns like i grew up in knew a lot of folks who went in the service and i think you're gonna have a really hard time mobilizing the armed services in any meaningful way against the american people and that's you know even if the american people were not armed to the teeth but i think that the other part of

that though is again to bring it back to cbdcs they know that the only like so many things are outside of their control the ability to speak and publish freely and to speak the truth in in the digital public square the ability to carry a weapon uh but what they can control they can't control any of any of those other things right now but if they have even more control of the money if they have the ability to say nope we're you know we're able to you can't pay for your internet

because we just you know your coupon internet coupon cbdc was revoked uh you're not buying any ammunition because we got rid of cash five years ago and the only way you can buy it is with a central bank digital currency and sorry but that's not on the you know that's not on the approved list of items that you can purchase and that's why i'm so grateful bitcoin exists because the ultimately the freedom of speech uh the the right to acquire and then bear arms all of that can be subverted

if they have complete control of the money because you need money for everything you want to do and you know i'm curious as you've started kind of going down this this bitcoin journey how have you seen these you know did you see bitcoin kind of fit in naturally as a form of let's say uh monetary protest let's say against some of these authoritarian overreaches that are you know foisted upon people under the guise of climate uh did you you know how far deep down the the bitcoin

uh energy abundance rabbit hole are you too i guess i should ask yeah that's a great question because i think that is why marty benton safety and had me on their pods in the first place is that so many people are using the climate scam to push against bitcoin or attack bitcoin because oh no we can't let bitcoin happen because it uses energy and and using energy causes bad weather so therefore no bitcoin for the people i think that that is so crazy and there are some good videos

about this about how um it's interesting that just bitcoin gets attacked for using energy like christmas lights and just the financial system we have in place right now the uh central banking and the insurance industry etc i've seen estimates saying that bitcoin mining is using just a tiny fraction of what the current system is using so no one is saying that oh let's shut down our credit cards because it's using too much energy that causes bad weather but bitcoin and there's

so many people it seems to me in the bitcoin community that are all apologetic and saying oh we're going to use renewable energy we realize that bitcoin causes bad weather but it doesn't cause a lot of bad weather i do think that uh we shouldn't go that route we should just be don't apologize for it it uses energy and a lot of things use energy and it's worth it there's uh just the pharmaceutical industry or that uses and healthcare enormous amounts of energy and again

they don't have to apologize for using their energy they just use it because using energy there's a huge correlation between energy use and human well-being uh alex eppstein does a great job of talking about that that countries that use a lot of energy they have uh they have better lives in general and if you're just for again he's living in kenya and his family they have enough electricity just to charge their phones and have maybe a few lights in their house and that's

it they got no refrigerator they don't have an electric car they uh they don't have a real car and um until recently when they were harvesting their corn they were putting it on their back and carrying it a kilometer to where they had to sell it or whatever and and it's a huge upgrade for them to have maybe moped's or small motorcycles and they can use that to haul their corn so anyway this whole idea that we need to clamp down on energy use because it causes bad weather and bitcoin

causes bad weather none of that makes sense energy use is a good thing uh we certainly we shouldn't waste the energy but uh it's important for human well-being and human flourishing to have that and um again jusper is a very good uh he's an advocate for the well-being of people in africa a lot of good do-gooders over here they want to throttle down the energy use in africa do them a favor because that's going to prevent droughts later so they should just try to power their whole

economy on wind and solar and i think wind and solar is kind of like fiat money it's fiat energy that it doesn't in most cases it doesn't do what it's supposed to do and there's supposed to be this deal where if wind and solar didn't prevent the blackout now the answer is more wind and solar but that's not it's not uh wind and solar they're never going to provide base load power you have to have real power that's there when you need it it's uh somebody else has said that how much would

you pay for a car that works only an unpredictable one-third of the time that's kind of what you're buying when you're buying wind power it's there sometimes and it's when you want it it's not there so how much is that worth so um i forget what the original question was but uh no no i well there's a couple interesting points there one is uh just about like human flourishing in general there's a great chart that uh alex gladstein uh has has talked about many times which is

basically uh you know gdp versus energy usage and his point is there are no rich countries that do not use a lot of energy it it does not exist like that it is literally not possible there is a correlation between how much energy you use and how wealthy and well off your country is and your people are that is undeniable and then to your point about kind of pushing these uh the these different you know uh climate projects on countries in africa or south america so much of

that too comes back to the money because it's organizations like the imf and the world bank who engage in monetary colonialism and those organizations use the you know they use debt big old debt packages but oh we're not going to give you those those sweet us dollars unless you agree to our development agenda and to to do these certain things and usually it involves a devaluation of the currency if there is a local currency if they're not dollarized it involves

you know you can only spend the money on this and this and this thing it involves whoever is in charge if that is a corrupt country just taking a bunch of that money and putting it in a came in you know or swiss bank account somewhere and uh you know or building another mansion for themselves it's all just absurd and it's it's kind of this ridiculous thing where we say that oh well yeah we in the quote developed world we can still use fossil fuels but you in the third world you

cannot use these things which were literally the only reason that we were able to become a developed country in the first place and it's just insane and it's so kind of so kind of patronizing too yeah just to say like again it's it's we know better than you you you know you poor undeveloped country let us come in and give you you know give you some blood money and tell you how to run things and it's like has any country ever been better off after the imf and the world bank got there

i think you would struggle to find an example of that they have become perpetual debt slaves uh for all time like that's not going away maybe El Salvador is the first country who may be able to get out from under the boot of the imf and that's also thanks to bitcoin and thanks to the fact that they're you know they're not buying uh this this crap and uh well i'll pause there for a second but i had another thing i wanted to bring up just about free market incentives and wind

and solar but i'll i'll pause there for a moment all right i just have two things here um martin dirkin who i worked with in the most recent climate the movie he did this great movie in 2007 the great global warming swindle and he had one one story in there he went to an african clinic where they were trying to run this african clinic just on solar panels so they had a refrigerator there and lights they could either have their lights on or they could run the refrigerator but not

both at the same time they had to make a choice and i'm wondering how many people would want their loved one in the u.s going to a clinic that where it's um the energy was limited in that way you want uh you want a clinic you want hospitals that have real for uh farms of energy whether you're an africa or not it's this whole idea like you said i think it's uh i think it's just terrible that's you think you're doing a good thing for the africans or for developing

countries by choking off the supply of real energy it's just a terrible thing then the other thing i wanted to mention is i don't know if you've seen this c40 cities document there's uh i think no it was named it was supposed to be 40 cities i think it went up to 99 cities a lot of major cities around the world their mayors signed on to this document it's still online as of a week or two ago it's one of the craziest things i've seen because they had goals in there that for example

they were going to try to limit us to three new pieces of clothing per year per person that's it this is for climate reasons if you want to buy that fourth piece of clothing no you got to wait till next year because it's going to cause too much bad weather and no meat by 2030 you don't get to eat any meat and no dairy and i don't know maybe it was one flight but completely crazy it's still still is online that they were going to try to restrict our lives and they seriously think that

we're going to accept those restrictions that how many people would uh say okay i'm not going to buy that fourth piece of clothing because the mayor signed on to this thing saying that's not the right thing to do it was pretty crazy again i think it just shows just how far out of touch these alleged elites are it's amazing amazing it is uh i'm trying to share this uh this screen is this the is this the document urban climate action impacts framework it might be you can look for

clothing down there i've posted it on twitter a few times it kind of looks like that okay i might have the wrong one here i mean i'll uh i'll check your your twitter for that so i can link this in the show notes as well uh but i mean that's the thing that people it's so funny to me because so many of the things that we are talking about if somebody just hops into this this conversation here's a snippet of this they think what a bunch of raging lunatic conspiracy theorists they're

just making all this stuff up but people don't realize that there is source material out there this isn't people we're not making this stuff up we're not pulling it out of our ass this is based on actual source material that they put out there on their actual agendas what they want to achieve this isn't fantasy this isn't a conspiracy theory this is in fact a conspiracy it's not a theory but it's just mind-blowing and like i'm gonna have to you said so c40 and then uh i might

be able to find it here yeah if you can if you can pull that up because i'm i'm very i'm curious about that and so much of this stuff again i have to come back to control like it all comes back to government has gotten too big because we print too much money to fund ever-expanding deficits that they will never pay you know they will never shrink they will never pay down they will never uh they know the money printer doesn't uh never turns off once it's been turned on it may pause

for a sec but it never turns off and the only way you know like you you mentioned that 40 trillion dollar number earlier the only way that we can possibly save ourselves is if we print ungodly amounts of money devalue the currency drive monetary inflation through the roof make everything cost more and then make everything cost that you actually want cost way more because we're gonna make it you know uh not not good we're gonna give it that bad label of we don't want you eating that we don't

want you driving that we don't want you uh reading that whatever it may be it all comes back to we have too big of governments and supranational organizations as well that are you know like the IMF and the world bank the BIS among others you kind of have to wonder i wonder all the time are the people that are in these organizations just part of something that's so big that they cannot control it and it kind of steers itself because there's this uh you know loose consensus that

they have about you know here's what we need to do to be good people and good uh good stewards of the poor dumb people or is there actually a lot of mal intent behind this i i go back and forth on this so i'm curious what your thought is when you see all these different agendas these un plans these you know davos we've plans or these IMF you know structural adjustments when you see all of this do you attribute it more to just well they're just kind of part of their cogs in a wheel

and they don't know how to do anything else or do you think there is a lot of do you think there's actually maliciousness and mal intent from a large number you know i thought about that a lot and i'm wondering if you know tens of thousands of people go to these un climate conferences that they they're there for two weeks i don't know if it's a lot of partying or what they're doing but i do think a lot of them honestly believe that someone else has proved there's a climate crisis and they're

really important and they're going to these meetings and they're talking over all these plans i think they see themselves as heroes i think a lot of them do see themselves as heroes even maybe al gore when he gets up in the morning he doesn't think i'm a scammer and of course this stuff is all bullshit i think he's uh he's he's fooled himself into believing this stuff that'd be my guess but i don't know these people personally maybe you know some of them personally but uh i don't know

no fortunately fortunately i i do not know uh i don't have too many connections at the at the un or at davos i think yeah maybe i'll have to make some inroads there go deep undercover or something but i can for sure tell though i have talked to a lot of climate scientists and warmest in general on twitter and some of them in real life and you can find out right away that they have not almost none of them have spent 10 minutes looking into what could this be wrong

they're just uh of course it's right you're evil if you don't believe in it you hate kids you're paid by big oil blah blah blah um but if they did look at it with an open mind at all if they looked in the crop yields like i said if they look in it go down any rabbit hole with an open mind they'll find out it's all a crock but they don't take that step they just think somebody else some nameless other people some really smart people have proved that there's a climate crisis and then

they save themselves the uh tough work of actually trying to think about it for themselves i do think that group think is a huge portion of this whole thing but not all of it you know you i agree and you uh slight tangent here but you mentioned you know these the assumption oh you must be paid but you're a paid shill for big oil but was it not big oil that funded the anti-nuclear energy campaigns back in the day didn't didn't they kick start i mean through various you know

green and green peace organizations didn't they provide a lot of that initial like anti-nuclear energy propaganda i've heard that i don't know what the answer is to that but it would not surprise me at all so yeah i think there's a lot of that where people are secretly funding whatever uh whatever the competition is yeah well yeah tax on oil companies for sure uh did create the the idea of recycling uh to so that they could get more plastic you know bottles out there that that i'm

i'm i'm fairly certain of and i'm not just spewing you know misinformation here but you know the point being that even these people who think that they're like the nuclear energy one is just such an obvious one to me where you have so many people who are supposed uh you know advocates for the climate for for the world for the future and yet they're against nuclear energy you look at Germany shutting down their last nuclear power plants you look at the fact that we what have we built like

two in the past 50 years in america like we have this incredible technology that allows us to harness basically uh limitless energy and clean energy that everybody should be able to get you know be in favor of and yet the propaganda campaign against it has been so fierce that people genuinely believe like oh no nuclear nuclear is bad we won't consider that to be a clean energy and i just think that's

it's mind-blowing and it's it's sad because you can imagine how much more human flourishing there would be now if we had small modular nuclear reactors developed that were deployed all across the developing world it wouldn't be developing anymore it would be developed you know and i i just find that sad that so much of this propaganda ends up genuinely preventing human flourishing because in the example of nuclear it stops that development from happening it stops that from being

funded it you know you don't get the permits and whatever all the other hoops you have to jump through and i think sort of similar tactics have been used against bitcoin where they want to they want to nip that in the bud but there's people like daniel batten doing really great research out there who've basically just gone through and debunked every one of these claims and done so very publicly and have now made it their mission to say no we're we're we are just not going to accept

your lies anymore we're not going to do it we're done with that here are the facts anything you say to the contrary is a immediately disprovable lie that's a good thing at least yeah daniel batten himself i think that he has said stuff like i don't have friends who are climate deniers so i think he's buying into that portion of this he's buying into the climate crisis part but he's is that am i right i've talked to daniel um i i know so the way he and i don't want to put

words in his mouth but having talked to him at some length he came on the show um because right now he has a firm that is raising money specifically to harness uh vented methane from landfills and to mine bitcoin with it like something that literally like even the the craziest uh diluted person could not be against that right like you're literally taking trash and you're turning it into treasure and this trash vents methane into the atmosphere nobody wants a bunch

of methane out there that's actually a worrisome thing but you can literally just set it on fire hook up a generator and turn it into bitcoin and that's incredible what he has talked to me about is is i think he is honestly someone who believes in the free market and wants to be able to incentivize the buildout of renewable energy sources as long as it is through means that are not dictated by government subsidies because that's where you have i mean anytime there are subsidies you have market

distortions right and that's my thing too if if the free market decides that it is more profitable and more efficient to build out solar and wind farms in a particular area for a particular use case by all means what i have problems with at a principled level is subsidizing any of this stuff because i think subsidies again always create market distortions and that's why you have massive overbuilds of wind and solar and then you still and with trillions of dollars spent and you still

have blackouts happening like california being an example of that and texas is kind of threading that needle pretty well where they're like no no we're gonna we're gonna keep drilling we're gonna keep using fossil fuels we're gonna have wind and solar as well but that's not going to be relied on for our baseload energy because obviously it can't be our baseload energy you know and so that there's at least i think a lot of realism coming out of texas and you know hopefully a little bit more of

the free market deciding yeah this is what actually makes sense right now yeah warren buffett admitted that the only reason to put up the wind turbines berkshire hathaway is heavily into wind power the only reason is the tax breaks or basically the subsidies otherwise it wouldn't make any sense so that's just a terrible misallocation of taking money from working people and effectively giving it to warren buffett to do this stupid thing that doesn't make any sense i think i agree that we

have to cut back on those subsidies or cut them off and completely and then i'm here in minnesota it's we're above the 45th latitude it makes no sense to put up solar panels over farmland putting up solar panels over farmland and then letting them sit there in the wintertime covered with snow just the only reason people do that they're farming the subsidies they're not the solar power doesn't make any sense whatsoever so yeah i would like to see politicians just attack this stuff and get rid

of it we need some hopefully sanity will return but i haven't seen much of it lately yet politically yeah sad i mean that's the thing is that it seems that no matter who is in power subsidies are just like a way of doing business you know and and that i think that's just so sad because we have so many examples throughout history of government intervention in the market specifically subsidizing things or trying to control the prices of other things that just

doesn't end well it's a market distortion it misallocates capital and you know like who you are not going to be smarter than the free market no small group of people is going to be smarter than the free market and i think that's again we come back to what we started with which is the hubris of people hubris of people in control to think that they can exert control be smarter than a bunch of individuals deciding what is best for them what is most profitable for them what

leads the most human flourishing for them that is always going to be better and more efficient in the long run and it's i i hope we get back to a little bit more of that sanity i'm kind of speaking of a little i'll go ahead just another another thing along those lines is the whole ethanol thing this whole idea that we have all these cornfields all this ethanol and uh does it make sense to be burning our food for fuel after we put all this fossil energy in there to uh to

grow the corn so i would like to see that cut back and i think a lot of that was i think gore admitted that a big reason he was in favor of it because the there's a primary in iowa he wanted to make the iowa farmers happy by giving them money again a great misallocation of money of money and uh not good for the environment to grow corn for no good reason if you're growing it for food i'm fine with it but for a stupid reason let's not do it so yeah and look look at where that where

that overproduction of corn started in the first place it happened during the nixon era when they decided that they were going to subsidize the heck out of people growing corn and then this also comes you know you got a lot of uh not so great oils that came out of that you have that a massive overproduction again a market distortion this leads to massive overproduction of ethanol which is a self-fulfilling then you know doom loop of producing more and more corn that is not at all

being used for human consumption but is instead being used to produce you know various lubricants and then also uh you know e85 ethanol or whatever it was it it's just it's insane to me and again it comes back to people thinking that they are smarter than the free market and thinking that oh if we just subsidize this we'll get the desired result and there's couldn't possibly be any second or third or fourth or fifth order effects like it's not only hubris but it's just incredibly

short-term thinking like it's it's actually mind-blowing how just incredibly short-sighted it is yeah i mean we're supposed to prevent bad weather in 2075 by using ethanol but how many small engines were ruined by the ethanol i've heard of people pulling out their hair people working on the engines uh they uh didn't work i don't know if it's gotten any better but i think it destroyed enormous amounts of engines i don't know how much politicians care about that i think not much but

it's uh it's pretty sad that part of it now i agree and i want to i want to switch gears a little bit because i want to we're talking about a lot of insanity and hubris right and i think one of the areas where it's a rabbit hole i've started going down a bit more here um also a bit thanks to effrat prodding me in that direction we're giving here lots of shout outs today and they're well deserved because she's awesome she is awesome but the the uh the geoengineering idea where this

seems to be something that uh a lot maybe a few years ago if you suggested that these kind of things were happening uh it would have been very hard to find a lot of evidence to back up your claim you could find some but not a lot now it seems that we're reaching the stage where companies and governments are admitting that they are doing this and pretending like yeah oh yeah we've never tried to hide this and it's it's all good and in no it's really it's really helping things and it has

no bad consequences whatsoever and trust me we are smart enough to handle this i can i think you're much deeper down that rabbit hole than i am can you can you educate me and maybe anyone listening who is not familiar with with what this means or thinks that geoengineering is still just kind of uh again some conspiracy theory yeah i mean it's interesting that we're supposed to think that anytime that a plane's flying over that if we see a contrail for sure it's just water vapor

your conspiracy theorist if you think it's something else but then there's all these mainstream articles saying that in i don't know where it was in the middle east there was like 240 official um flights where they were trying to increase the amount of rain by spraying chemicals from a plane into the sky and there's companies that uh have been doing this for years for decades they've been doing it they did it in the vietnam war they were spraying stuff to a change change the weather so the whole

idea that there's no planes up there trying to change the weather by spraying chemicals not true for sure it's happening i don't know how much of it it's happening i don't know how widespread it is i don't know what they can do in terms of hurricanes can what can they do i i don't know but uh the whole idea that we should just think the whole thing is a conspiracy theory and you're stupid to think of

planes are spraying stuff up there they're for sure they are because there's been so as you said so much admission that that's that has been happening and uh i think i think it shouldn't be happening because uh again there's the unintended consequences and we don't know uh some people say that major floods have been caused i think there was a case in the 1950s in england where there is uh they had maybe a hundred times the normal amount of rain because they overdid it i think of course if they

try this stuff they are going to overdo it so i think they should be super careful and again the whole idea of blotting out the sun to try to make prevent the planet from warming by blotting out the sun there's a reason why that is it's a plot point in many uh movies right that there's some idiot mad scientist that wants to blot out the sun and we want to blot out the sun and we want to power the us power the world on solar panels and we want to blot out the sun it doesn't make any

sense so yeah geoengineering is happening i need to dig into it further i think you might be a fairly far along yourself compared to me i'm only a few months into it don't know yeah yeah well it's it's interesting you know you mentioned some of these these floods i believe you remember those really big uh that's like quite devastating floods they had in dubai uh this was the one yeah yep and and i mean dubai is very public about all the cloud seeding they're doing like they're

they're very public about they're like look at we've we figured out how to make the this inhospitable unlivable environment in the desert livable and we're seeding the clouds and we have our shiny sitting on the city on the hill and again you know we're so smart and then it's like oh shoot we overdid it a little we just caused i don't know how much property damage but i'm sure an insane amount because that's some pretty high quality property that has been built up around

there but again this this comes back to hubris and people thinking that yes we will be able to we can control this we can make the most unlivable places livable and there is some truth to that because the more energy you're able to harness you know you can you can uh quite literally you know drain the swamps and pump pump water out and make places that humans probably have never lived before fairly livable but i think that a lot of this gets taken too far and that's where so

much this this destruction happens because you end up getting just a bunch of people who think they're doing something good and they're following orders and whatever else and yeah we're doing important stuff but then they don't actually have any idea they don't think past the first order consequences i think that's that's really a theme they just it's oh this is going to help increase rainfall we should do it this is going to help you know make the place make the planet cooler we

should do it there's no forward thinking at all it's all this very high time preference here's what i got the money to uh to spend on i better spend it right now or i'm not going to get the same budget next year for my my little research project i i don't know i i worry that you're going to have either some i don't know uh some government decide that just goes way overboard on some of this stuff and maybe it's the us i don't know i don't know where we're at in that cycle

yeah i think daniel prince was saying that uh when it rains just enough if they're cloud seed seeding and it rains just enough they're going yep you're welcome we did that but then if it rains too much up that was natural it wasn't caused by us of course they're going to deny any negative effects and they're going to take credit for any positive effects that's just the way it's going to go for sure so again this as you said they need to uh to dial it back until they understand

it and they we don't understand it we don't well if it rains too much then it's climate change right it's it's because you're drawing a fossil fuel powered car of course you you greedy bastard yep it's the fault of people that you don't like it always is no matter what yeah yeah well you know i want to uh want to be conscious of time here because we've covered a lot of of stuff today and there's a lot more i think we we could cover but i want to ask before i go further

was there was there anything that uh you wanted to get into was there anything you wanted to circle back on that maybe we didn't get a chance to dig into enough no i think we covered a lot of stuff here i think this is really good i very much enjoyed it i can't think of anything i well as soon as we hang up i will but i have not thought yeah well always well then i want to maybe ask a just uh to bring it back to bitcoin a little bit because again i think it's it's fantastic that you're

on this journey and again what an introduction to it between safedine and and marty bent uh that's quite a way to come into the the bitcoin scene but i'm i'm just kind of curious of your thoughts in general on uh does this provide a enough of a bulwark enough of a you know a barrier against some of this overreach or at least enough of an escape patch for us that even if the governments are pushing these cbdcs even if they're pushing these anti-human flourishing climate agendas

even if they do all of this at least we still have a way to escape or i mean do you where are you maybe let me ask this a different way uh are you optimistic right now about where the future is headed or pessimistic somewhere in the middle yeah i would say i am optimistic long term i do think we're going to go through hard times there's some sort of great reset is still ahead of us i think so i think hard times are coming and i think better times are coming after that so i don't i

can't predict exactly how this reset's going to work out i wish i knew but yeah i think hard times are coming then better times yeah uh well at least those hard times should have created some good men by then uh you know that that that that gives me a lot of hope we're you know i people often think like oh you know we're what a crazy time we're living in this is you know so much insane stuff is happening and it's true but at the same time you look at all of human history and there's always

a lot of crazy stuff happening we just have so much more exposure to it now because we've got these things in our pockets and we've got 24 36 24 7 365 real-time news from every corner of the globe and it's like and maybe things are a bit crazier now historically speaking i don't know i i haven't been around that many decades so i i'm not sure but i'm i'm kind of uh i'm also very optimistic and i'm and i'm hopeful long term because at least we have tools that allow us to resist

what is being pushed upon us uh in the form of bitcoin and strong cryptography and decentralized social media protocols like noster uh i'm also optimistic because to back to what we talked about earlier i see it i i shouldn't say i see i feel more of a change happening with people where it seems to be that more and more people just say no i'm not buying it anymore like i'm not i'm not buying what you're selling uh i'm sick of giving my harder and tax dollars to you while you

print money out of thin air i'm sick of buying your bullshit crisis that never materializes in the way you said it will and it's just used an excuse to strip away even more of my rights and you know what i just want to you know love my family lead a good life do something productive with my time can you just stop messing with me that feels to be where a lot of people are at like just just leave me the hell alone and let me try to live a good and decent life

so one thing that honestly gives me hope is the work of you and karla it absolutely does in preparation for this i've spent a lot of time uh listening to your stuff and uh looking at your ex feeds and it really honestly gives me hope because you guys are doing a great job you've got such a beautiful family it makes me really happy yeah yep it gives me hope for the future so good times are ahead they really are bit bit coiners i notice are having a lot of babies right

now and that's that's a good thing we do not have a yeah we don't have a population problem we have a maybe a declining population problem that's the other side of what they've been telling us for so long that's another one of those that's a whole different rabbit hole of how that was you know this malthusian idea that you need to reduce the population or we're going to run out of food and all of this and again it's one of these predictions that just doesn't come true and wasn't backed by

anything material but was picked up by the academic elites and by you know by a lot of governments as well and you know that's that's another thing that gives me hope is the governments and the academic elites who are supporting them they're not sending their best because i don't i don't think the best are working with them you know what i mean it's they can't send they can't send their best because the best people don't want to be a part of that that's a good thing that's a

great point and if we do start having 1.2 kids per couple that is going to cause huge of course it's going to we're going to go extinct so it's incredibly important that the bitcoiners have babies yeah and everyone else too but at least bitcoiners seem to be leading the charge especially bitcoiners yeah exactly a lot of orange-pilled babies coming to the world but tom i want to thank you for your time here uh one question and then a just a completely unrelated question where do you want

to send people um i'll link i'll link everything the show notes i'll link climate the movie as well in the show notes i highly recommend people watch it it's really well done you guys did an excellent job on that um and just very very engaging and approachable but any where else do you want to send people feel free yeah just uh i'm on x at tom a nelson that would you can find me there at my link tree is in my profile so that'll do it i'll link that there i'll link your noster as well

uh glad i started following you on there now and here we are live streaming on noster uh so yeah it's uh what a time to be alive we've got a lot of tools at our disposal to be able to resist the absurdity of the want to be totalitarians that would foist a very dark world upon us if we did not have the ability to resist it so i'm grateful for you as well and glad i got a chance to uh to meet you here although not in person looking forward to the in person meeting that sounds

great thank you very much i really enjoyed talking to you appreciate it and that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin podcast you are a bitcoin only company interest in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast head to bitcoinpodcast.net slash sponsor or send an email to hello at bitcoinpodcast.net if you are enjoying the bitcoin podcast and find it valuable give it a boost on fountain a five star review wherever you're listening

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