The Better Business Analysis Institute. Presence, the Better Business analysis Podcast with. Kenjan. Walsh, hi everybody and welcome back to the Better Business Analysis. Podcast with. Benjamin Walsh. Proudly brought to you by the. Better. Business Analysis Institute. We've had a number of you visit our website and sign up recently. I just want to say thank you so much. For those who've. Done. Our Free. Course posted. It and tagged as it. We really appreciate it and
helps us grow. And helps people know more about our. Organization and podcast and it just helps. Make BAS better. And what I've noticed is there's a. Lot of people that. Are looking for a career change and they start. Listening to this podcast. And it motivates them to become ABA. And for me, you know, that's awesome. OK, so this episode we are. Going to talk? About a topic. That, you know, it's actually been stuck in my head. For a while, I knew.
That this counter discipline existed which comes out of the. Architecture Space Tolgoff Bible for architects. I knew that this. Position existed. Within the architecture. Space and I knew that it overlapped. With the. Areas of. Business analysis. That I love. So I'm going. To take us. Through the difference between. A business architect. And a business. Analyst, so the. Official definition from, you know, one. Source is business, Architecture is the. Blueprint.
By how? An organization creates. And delivers value. What a great. Sentence How An. Organization creates and delivers. Value. That really talks. To my heart. Because that for me is exactly what. ABA should be. Doing. Now, usually and we'll. This is. Dipping into the differences. ABA is. Generating or. Maximizing value. From a change and a business architecture creates value. And we'll talk. About how you create value in a minute if we continue on. In the definition, so a business
architect. Now business architecture is the blueprint. For how an. Organization creates and delivers. Value. It's like a map. That shows the different. Parts of the business. How they're connected and how they work together. To achieve the. Organization's. Goal or both. OK, so if you think about an architect who will help build a house if you've. Ever watched Grand Designs? British. British. I'm sure there's an American equivalent. Great. Great show. Love it.
And there's, you know. Architects who are. Working with clients and it's. Follows the building. Process and the designs are are grand. Right. They're not just everyday builds. They're usually quite complicated. You know, they've really got a bit of. Hardcore architecture involved. Or the architects. Actually leading the project, sometimes much to the. Sorrows of the budget of the. Person who's paying for it and you know, they're. Really crafted. A structure they.
Usually have a model. Of what? The house. Is going to. Look like and you know they work with the building team who has to actually make it happen. Now if you think that the business. Is the. House so your. Organization is a house. OK, so it. Could be your. Existing house. Or it could. Be. And a change towards this new house. Or it could be a new. Build so regardless you either and we'll talk about those two states. So there's.
Either a current State House on the same piece of land you're talking about your your business area. Or a new build on the. Same piece of land. You. Conduct or work with an. Architect who will? Then you know, design. What the house should look like. And that is true business. Architecture so if. If the piece. Of land was. The business area and you were. Going to set up a new organization, the business. Architect could actually work out things like the capabilities that. You need.
In order to exist. They would. They would map out. All the. Elements this specific components of business architecture. For what you need and if you were. Taking. An existing house and you were changing it Or then? They would work at. The transitional state? To get there. OK, so they really talk about the organization as a whole. And there's a couple of. There's four key elements. Of business architecture. That you need to worry about. So one is capabilities.
So they are the. Skills and resources. That an organization needs to deliver its products or services. So think about those. More than. Processes, so they. Are the processes at the highest level? But they include the resources. And the skills in order. To deliver. On those. Areas so that the highest level processes. Of an organization is one way to say and BA words. Obviously it is the processes themselves which takes something
from X and. Takes it to Y. And so that could be a manufacturing process. It could be you know all the steps. Along the way. They. Actually use the term value stream and they they. Use the word. Value stream which links to the creation of value because it should be in terms of what? End customer is getting. OK. Not internally focused external and that's one. Of the differences we'll talk about soon. Information. So they talk about what is.
The data and knowledge that an organization needs. To operate effectively, could be. Things like if. You're a hospital. There may be patient records. Or medical. Protocols. Or financial data. And then the. Organization itself. So the business units, the departments, the teams, the reporting relationships, the stakeholders within an organization. So capabilities, processes. Actually value. Streams I would say. And not processes and and that helps.
Define the differences here Information organization. OK. So well designed business architecture. Just like a house. Means that an. Organization is aligning its strategy with its operations. And I talk a. Lot about the. Enterprise and strategic analysis. Space of business. Analysis And this is where the. Overlap. Is the strongest. For me, you. Could argue that the BA is playing in the strategic.
And enterprise analysis space and very much more shifting left, they are dipping into business. Architecture and actually. There are some well defined ways of doing this. Which? Business architecture have already, you know, laid the. Blueprints and the. Foundations for. And we should be using those. Techniques OK. So but like. When we go, you know, so far into. Changing the organization, working with stakeholders, we should adopt. Change management methodologies. This the.
Same could be said when you're doing strategic planning, you should dip. Into business architecture techniques. So also a couple of the other benefits of. A great well. Designed business architecture is decision. Making is really clear so you know who's accountable for what. You've got agility, so you can change. To a market, so you're looking. Externally. Pull this five forces. And then you can. Look at how your organization. Create and and it. Dips into a bit of links, into a bit.
Of reducing. Cost, so removing duplication. And it can even. Point off to Six Sigma, but at this moment it really is the idea about business. Architecture is to kind of say. Well, if your house for example. Has three rooms. That have. You know distinct and. Maybe you've got yourself. Your yourself, your partner and two kids, 3 rooms. It's saying, well, that's. The way you. Operate today, but an architect can see beyond. Those walls like knock them down in their in their design.
Plan and go. What about this? And that's exactly. What Business Architecture's about? It gives you. Freedom to not. Worry about where the walls are today. And that's the analogy that. Relates to a. House build quite. Nicely. So looking really. At the future. So. There's a lot of frameworks that business. Architecture relates to. There's the business. Architecture Guild Guild, which is the BAG. They have a body of knowledge just like the BAS.
Do so it's. Called so BA, you know it's the. Body of knowledge in terms of. Bulbach and they have a Baba. Which is Business Architecture? A book of knowledge. So you know. That's quite similar to the IBA. And they're probably. A really good. Startup for 10 is. The Business Architecture Guild, if you. Want to find out more information? The other major. Framework you may have heard of or you. Should have if. You've done solution architecture or you've dipped? Into that space.
Or you've used the tool Enterprise Architect, which is a. Tool. A modeling tool. It's all. Aligned with a framework. Called Togoff. And Togoff stay and actually stands for the Open Group Architecture Framework and it's really known as being the most. Popular and widely. Used architecture framework and the reason why. Togoff's good, but usually associated. With the building. So the solution. Architecture and the development around it. There is a.
A whole area. On business architecture. And so you'll. Find that sometimes. Business architects. Don't come from VA. World at all? They come from a technical mindset from, you know, studying Togoff and then loving working. With the business and then turning into business architects. So that's kind of the. Way that happens because of course. We don't have. A word called business architecture. Within the BA. Space. So that is why.
You find that architects sometimes go into the space and it's a bit frustrating because they have different ways. Of doing things. But a great. Business architects, actually. Above them. And they work. Quite nicely with BA. So I'm going to give you, you might say, to. Yourself. Well. OK, well isn't this. The same. As what you sometimes talk about. Being in terms. Of working closer. To the left, so I'm going. To talk about the difference.
Between or give you 10 differences between Business Analysts and Business. Architects OK. In the real world, and and you may have not never have met. A business architect. I think I've met one. OK, New Zealand is small. I've worked with architects. Technical architects usually when you say architects. You there's a. Implied IT. Architect. At the front. But a really? Good business architect. I've only really worked with one. Really good one. So it's much more popular to be
ABA. Well, at least. In New Zealand. So let's go through 10. Differences and this will give you an idea and I might. Debate some of these. Differences along the way. Just to give. You my perspective. And remember I am AI Guess progressive business analyst and our institute is. Talking about moving. BA forward and. Part of that you could save, I just really was to keep it really simple. It's around moving. BA's closer. To business architecture. OK, not.
To the role, but there I feel like. The gap is. Between where BAS are today and. Closer to this. Role so these. Differences will. Highlight obviously. The difference between ABA and. A business architect, but. It'll also point. To some of those. Gaps there that. Could be filled. By senior BAS. OK. The number one kind of difference. Is focus. So business architects, they. Focused on the. Overall structure. And future. Of the business. OK, so that that's it. They're not bogged.
Down with the individual initiative, even though they might help scope. Or. Prioritize. Those. So business architects. Design and optimize. Business model. OK, business models. So which model might be best for this market? Is it? Should you do? You know, like an Airbnb. Marketplace model or? Should you just sell to? Consumers directly, so quite, you know, very high level. The capability, So what? Does the organization? What areas?
Of the organization need to exist to support that model. So like if you're selling? Your Airbnb for example. You will need a sales division. Or a sales team the value stream across the. Process across the organization. Sometimes they. See it as the processes. Across the organization. I'm going to say. Value stream and and and. As it's a. Different world, but you may have heard of value. Streams with people that. Deal with Kaizen. For me. A value stream in BA.
World is the customer journey. In the most optimal way. OK, and the value? Stream is the. Organization view. Of that, so for me it's level, process level. One and. Your BA world should be the. Value stream OK. And then below. There the capabilities we need. So BAS though. And this is true very much. True, and I believe. It too. Are very problem. Specific, right? And their job. Is to work. Within a project. To deliver solutions being a
product service change. And so they are looking at the requirements around that problem domain processes and then the. Gap generally between IT and the business and the gap in terms of current or future. State so that's the difference, so. Kind of. Basically in the different direction, back-to-back. BA looking. Almost down but but down but as a result of strategy. Whereas. A business architect's looking up and even defining the business. OK, so this is a the house and
then the builder if you like. Scope So. BA is primarily and this. Would be true are. Looking at individual. Projects, initiatives. OK, so they usually. Focus on one area, one. Scope. Defined. Scope one business. Case yes, you might have. An. Enterprise Business analyst. Who's working? Across the organization in terms of processes. But they might be looking down. And business architects they look at. The entire organization, they take a holistic view, so they
look. At all parts of the. Business and their interaction and the reason. That enterprise BA? And a business architect could work. Together. Is that the business architect Again, they might be. Standing back-to-back. The business. Architect's looking. Across the organization. But responding to strategic needs. And then the enterprise BA might be looking. At How the Enterprise? Deals with those needs. OK. So there is room for both there. In terms of. Activities BA is a you know.
Trying to elicitate requirements, analyze data. Document. Processes create user stories, facilitate workshops. And really, they're going. From the what to the how, OK. So they're data oriented. You even get BIS. Who are you know? Quite Systems analysts. Who work quite low. And a business architect are again looking at business models. They're looking at. Target operating models. OK. So they're looking at like what? Operator? Model might actually work. You know what?
Divisions. Do we need they do look at capability maps, so they do capability maps. Quite a bit. So they might say, if the organization needed. These 12 capabilities or it's usually about. 23 if you look at. The APQC model. There might be like 20. 3 high level divisions from sales to product management to HR. To IT those. Kind of things. Those big boxes you could develop. Capability maps and then grade where we are today and where we.
Want to be in the future? They're looking at really aligning business and IT strategy and I'm currently I'm currently working on a. Consulting piece of work. Where a need for business. Architect is huge. But also an enterprise. Solution. Architect or Enterprise? Architect they call them to. Work with a. Business architect. And you know the fact the. Organization doesn't have that and. It's quite IT driven. Is causing issues in terms of trying to get some wins there.
They might even. Recommend. Changing the steps Business architects. And they're strategic. Thinkers. So they're. Focusing on the why, OK and and and the what. Where the overlap. Is with the PA the. Skills I guess. BAS need to be really analytical. They need to communicate. They need to have. Knowledge of business domains Learn. Quickly, they generally. Understand the tools. That are there. I would. Say that. You know a process modelling. Would be #1 in. Terms of how I.
Train junior. BAS start. Doing process modelling. Enterprise architects are more strategic thinking change management. Like I said, Togoff. Frameworks and even. Business modelling techniques. They may have. It is very, very close. To MBA. Kind of stuff as well in terms of those strategic. Planning techniques. ABA will have. You know. A bachelor's degree.
In business or business analysis, they'll have a certification like the Certified Bit of Business Analysis Certification that we offer business architects will. Generally be more than that, Yeah. Might be an MBA. Or they'll have a. Enterprise Architecture Certification. And that's the reason why those two worlds of. Body of knowledge is don't kind of. Overlap. They've. Come from a different place. Both of those roles work closely with. The business stakeholders, OK.
So they might both be talking to the same people. But business architect? Would be managing what we call managing app. So they manage. Up with. Senior leaders they. Should be invited. To the exec. And so. You know, BAS would be more down at the. SME level. In terms of. Career paths, I mean. BAS can progress. To architects. But generally what you will. Find is that. The career path is really like I said. From the architecture space to kind of business architecture.
So there's just some differences there. I tried to list off about. 10 or. Two for each. Area of the. 5:00 So we talked about focus, scope, activities, skills, and education. And so yeah. So that's really. The difference between business architecture? And business analysis and you could. Say Well, that's nice. Why? What does the? Iiba Think about. This what is what is what? Is the official. International Institute of. Business analysis What do they
think about business architects? Do they have a response? To it. Because I I. Find that fascinating and they don't have a dedicated. Certification we also. Don't. I'm just not. That much of an expert I would consider myself a. A medium level. Business architect myself. I am not. In a position where I'm an expert to be able to teach others. But I really do enjoy that space. So I I was interested to. Find out what is the IRB actually. Does it acknowledge the existence of business?
Architects and how does it? How does it? Talk about that. And of course, you know I have my. Opinions on the IBAI think they're great, but they. Are. Very much. Stagnated in terms of response responding. They're not. Active in terms of pursuit or progression. So they do define business architecture. They. Do talk about. It they talk about them that they're related. But distinctly different. Disciplines.
They define business architecture as the practice of designing and developing the blueprints for an organization's capability, processes and information flows. I don't like the word process there because. Like I said. That. Looks that very much dips into. The BA space. It kind of. Talks about the. Fact That business architects. Are. BAS, I wouldn't. Say that's necessarily. True. I guess if you if you if you take the definition of BA. Being everything then you can.
Say. That it highlights. The need for business, architects and. BAS to work together, you know, helping with the. Bridge between IT. And business and then looking for an overarching framework. It talks about. There's a transition. From BA to Architecture there's even. A couple of. Resources called business. Analysis to business architecture Why make the shift? To webinar that. Can tell you about the differences and prepare for the
transition. But. If you really want to study what architecture's all about, I would suggest to be a bot. Guide now that isn't. It's about the. Same as the business analysis body of lot knowledge from the. IRBA, which is Babak and it's B, it's Baba. K with a small. Sorry. OK. So Bab. OK. And so it's about. Exactly the same, just with a small. OK to represent. The. Architecture space. So it's quite interesting they've even. Used the same. Name there.
Now they do. Reference each other so they can't. You know it's it's. I guess they're talking they're. Taking the safe. Route here I would say. That. You it's not. Overly helpful. To look at that. I think. For me, purposely, I would say that there's I would my own definition. Is that? There is an. Overlap but. The business architecture. Space has matured. And is ingrained in the togoff methodology. And the architecture space. And the BAS have come from
another line, if you. Think about those as two parallel streams. And there is. The level. That's more strategic. As business architecture. In which? ABA will. Act on. Some of the initiatives that a business architect might do. OK. And have you were getting into the? Enterprise BA space. And you weren't. Satisfied by just? Looking. Across the enterprise and you really wanted to get more into a? Strategic. Space. I would say that would be. When your transition to business
architecture would make sense. And I do. Think that I don't think that an enterprise. Architect, which is supposed to look at both technical and business architecture. Is quite the top. I actually think business architecture at the top in terms of that kind of highest level analyst for the organization. So don't. What I'm trying? To say there is, don't feel like you are throwing away your BA career by looking. At business architecture. But I would say that it helps to have a.
Very strong senior. BA. Experience maybe 10 years and and has and have worked. Sorry, as enterprise. Business analyst for a number of years and. Understand the fundamentals of business. And a. Little bit about. Architecture. And then maybe. Look at. Stepping into business architecture as your kind of. Final career before. Maybe moving into consulting? If you want to, if you're not going to be a manager. I. Would say this is kind. Of like the highest level specialist role you can get.
Business architects. Could do get paid. Well as well. But there aren't many jobs out there. For them, because not every day businesses are looking at changing their models. So you do. Find that these. Roles or their skills that they provide. Are sometimes provided. By say the top 4, the deloittes and the PWCS and the KPMGS of the world who have templated. Ways of doing this. So I hope. That I have given you a little bit of. An insight in terms of business architects.
Who look at the. Strategic planning side and business model side. And value streams and information and. Capabilities that an organization needs to. Have in. Place in. Order to operate effectively. And you know the difference between that and what BAS. Do which is more. Looking at the. Projects, the initiatives, you know, activating the strategy. Actually doing some stuffs instead of just designing it. And now I'm not minimizing that. I think it's really important to
have the stuff in place. I'm very passionate about myself. And I'll leave it. There.