Confirmation in the last twenty four hours or so from the Minister of Mineral, Mineral and Petroleum Resources Greta Mantasha that the new online nine mapping system, the cadastral system in the trade it's been delayed again, this time for another three months, will only go live I think in November, and that the current paper system very difficult or almost impossible for a mining company. Don't know what other companies are mining, what and where and where they can prospect. Peter Lyon
is a mining expert and partner at Herbert Smith Freehills. Peter, a good evening to teach you. I do appreciate the time. I mean, yet another delay. There's been so many promises about this and even the Ministry seemed to have previously undertood how important a new online canstal system was.
Good e being Stephen, It's really extraordinary. I mean this issue has been going on for years. In fact it started. The promise was made initially by Susan Tebungo when she was the Minister, that they introduced an electronic online supposedly an electronic online system called SAMRA, the South Africa Mideral Rights Application System, but never works. It was something that the Department had formulated itself without using any outside consultants.
So the problem was that companies still had to basically use a paper based system that gives lies to all sorts of issues, particularly you know, fraud, corruption, dishonesty, the rest of it. And that's why most African mining jurisdictions in the Membia, for example, the North of Ice, Bobs, Fina and so on, have all got online cadastral systems and in fact I've had them for more than ten years.
The World Bank helped countries roll them out. So it is extraordinary that South Africa in twenty twenty five is still does still not have a proper cadosterral system and as you say, it's been delayed again having been promised for the last fifteen years.
Is there any I mean, is it that difficult to do? I mean, online mapping is a big industry that lots of people will help you do it. Other people around us know how to do it. It can't be that hard, No.
It isn't. I mean. In fact, the Mineralist Council offered to donate a bespoke system to the Department of Mineral Resources about two years ago. And the department said, well, they couldn't accept it, but maybe they should live. Because that then went out to a tender. There was a problem with that book stated Information Technology Agency said that tender was irregular, so that held the thing up by
another six or eight months. Eventually somebody was appointed last year, a Canadian company with the South African company and some sort of joint venture, and they obviously black empowerment requirements around that. So it's taken an awfully long time and one can hope that once the system rolls out in the Western KP initially later this year, is actually going to work. But clearly we can't work with the current system.
There's so many aspects to this, and that the fact there's been a delay after a delay leading up to this new delay makes me wonder about the symbolism if you keep being promised something and you keep being disappointed even at sort of the last minute. International investors, people in Beijing who want to go on our online transparent cadastral system and find they still can't may just wonder if we're actually at all serious.
Well it's a very good point. I mean, it doesn't make us look very serious. And the other issue is that most other African mining jurisdictions have these systems for years. In fact, I was working I was just thinking about it this afternoon. I was working in Nigeria more than ten years ago, helping the government their new mining code, and they'd al really set this thing up and got
the World Bank to help them. And that's when I sort of focused on this issue in South Africa and started asking some questions as to why we didn't have one, which is I say they eventually came up with one two thousand and nine. The Samurai system has never worked properly, so it's basically been dysfunctional from the get go.
You made the point that a paper based system has all sort of problems, and I know there's been quite a consistent claim from an MP in the DA James Lorimer, that in fact, no longer a paper system is working, the more potential there is for wrongdoing. I mean, I can't I have no causal reason to believe that that's true. But the virtue of an online system is that it does bring a lot more transparency that must be very very powerful in this space.
Well that's the main reason for it. And as you said in your introduction. Everybody knows who's got whitch rights and what's still available. That's really important. But actually the point that James makes is substantiated by the fact there was quite a famous case involving Cumber and Imperial Crown Trading, which you might remember, Stephen, where exactly that happened, where
we had a paper based system. The whole system was suborned, documents were forged, the applica you know, this company ICT got a prospecting right over the session iron or mine which Cumber had owned, you know since the nineteen fifties, various forms, and that's because it was a paper based system, was so easy to disabbort it and undermine it.
It is astonishing. Peter Leon, thank you very much. Indeed, mining expert and partner at Herbert Smith Freehills. At some point, I suppose the problem is is that when the Ministry makes certain offers and government says no. When we have the government saying they'll do it themselves, and it doesn't really work when we have almost unexplained delays in some ways.
The Minister did say yesterday, as I understand it, that it was you know that there was some more work to do and this needed to be done very precisely. It does lead to questions. Now, I mean, you've got no facts. I can't say this is why this has happened all, This is why put any kind of motive to it. It does just I think, leave people very, very disappointed