Episode 229: Discover Automatic Writing with Psychology Professor Matthew McKay

For over twenty five years, I've been on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know that our loved ones have survived physical debt and so will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm very excited today. I'm excited to share our guest. I'm excited that there's a

new way to communicate with our loved ones. Today you'll meet doctor Matthew McKay who's a psychology professor in Berkeley, California, who never would have believed in the world of the afterlife and communication had his own adult son not been taken from him. Doctor McKay has authored or co authored more than twenty five psychology, self hell and therapist texts and books specializing in anxiety and depression. And in this episode today you'll hear his story and what he does

to connect with his son, Jordan. Here's doctor Matthew McKay.

moment or very shortly afterwards. I think that the two things that mattered most to me, and I think this may be true for a lot of appearance or anyone who loses a loved one, does that soul still exist and are they okay? Are they in a place where they feel good? And I was just consumed with that question, and so I did start looking for Jordan, started seeking him in different ways. In we went to mediums and got some sense of something he was saying through them.

And yet while there was some sense of him, some reassurance he might still exist, it wasn't anything that really warmed our hearts, and so we began looking in other ways. We sought out Alan Botkin, who discovered accidentally something he calls and do stuff after death communication went to Chicago. It's a technique that comes from EMDR. I moved in to sensitization through processing, which is something that we used

to help treat trauma. I've used it with hundreds of clients over the years, but in this case, we were going to see him and he was going to use his variation of that with us. During that experience, I had my first direct contact with Jordan. I could hear his voice very clearly, and it was not inside my head. It was a voice that was coming from outside of me. It was his voice, and he was telling me the very things that I needed to know that he still existed.

In fact, he's watching over us, he was observing our lives. He was connected to us, and he was good and he was happy where he was. So this was a first major step for me, for us, my wife and I to begin to connect to him again and to re establish the relationship through the curtain to the other side.

So that was important. Also before this, I had read a lot of Michael Newton's work on Juria of Souls and so forth, and I had learned, because I'm psychotherapist and I'm a good hypnotist, I'd learned his particular method of regressing people to their past lives and then from there bouncing into the life between lives and having them observe the life between lives. And I had done that with quite a few people. I didn't charge them, but

I did it. If anybody who wanted it and needed I would do it, and I got to observe their experience. But I never got to have it. And so somewhere along this point in time, I got involved with Ralph Messner, who was the late Ralph Messrs, a specialist in the

afterlife and after deathcommunication. He did that same process. He induced me into a past life and then the life between lives, and I could make contact with Jordan in that way, And it's confirming that souls reincarnate together and often in very different relationships to each other in each particular life. They often have very different ways of connecting. The problem still was that it was all one way. I was with Alan Bodkin's process, I was just hearing

Jordan passively. With mediums, I was hearing their representation of what Jordan was saying. Even in this hypnotic process. With Ralph, it was a passive process. I was experiencing things, but I was not able to participate in the communication. So finally Ralph taught me how to do channel communication. And it didn't take him very long, as it was actually a fairly simple process, and I tell your audience how

to do it if they would be interested. But in less than an hour he taught me how to do it, proudly, much less than an hour. I went home that night and I had my first experience of conversation with Jordan, a conversation in which I could ask questions, he could answer them, I could respond, he could respond to whatever I was saying, and it felt like we had gone back to those beautiful days around the kitchen table where we could talk about anything and have these long, beautiful

and endless conversations. And I had my first experience of being able to have that again and greatly shifted the grief, the grief of having lost him to I've lost his physical presence, but the relationship and the love is still completely there, completely intact, completely alive. So that was an enormous transformation for me. And I still have Jordan in my life, and to have that has made all the difference in terms of facing this loss, but also in

terms of learning. I've learned so much from him, and that's made a big difference. I have a completely different understanding and cosmology how the universe works as a result of his communications.

not in mind. So what I get from him is is communication. But I do feel him physically.

from him. So what does he say the afterlife is their components to it. The first thing that happens after we die is we end up in he calls the landing Place, and it's just adjacent to the spirit world. And in the landing Place, the main function of that spot is to get used to having a non physical experience. We see it three hundred and sixty degrees not just straight ahead. We are hearing things telepathically. We move by intention, but not by muscle motions. And this landing Place is

often familiar in some ways. It's a setting that we might have known in our lives. But it also has a surreal quality of heightened colors and so forth, very very beautiful, and it's there we meet God and some of the important souls, perhaps from our soul group, who come to greet us in that's place. We're getting used to this not being physical anymore. But it's also a place where guys evaluate our readiness to enter the spirit world.

If we have a lot of intense residual emotions from the unfinished issues in our life that are really strong and overwhelming. A lot of fear or a lot of anger. We'll go to ancillary places where Bardo's where we work on that before we can enter the spiritual You can't enter the spirit world with intense negative emotions, and so there's sometimes a pausing that goes on and certain healing processes that have to happen before the soul is ready

to fully enter the afterlife. The sort of sorting out is done in this anti room landing place, and so once we enter the spirit world, the very first stop is where we do life review as many people have talked about that. Jordan describes it, and I've had a little bit of the experience also when I've done the

life between life regressions. It's a very powerful experience. And in that experience, we experience everything we've done, every choice we've made, from our own perspective, but also from the perspective of the person who was affected by that choice

or that behavior. So we're experiencing it both ways. And on top of that, not only do we experience it as that person experienced it at the moment, but over time how it impacted them in terms of moving forward in their life, how what we did impacted and affected them, and we're going through every single significant choice that we made in our lives and observing its effect on ourselves on others over time longitude. So it's a very powerful process.

It takes a while. We're supported by guys, and we do a tremendous amount of learning in this process. It's just it's huge. It's a monumental re experiencing of life from all perspectives. Then there are other steps that we can see in the afterlife, but fairly soon we reunite with our soul group. And as I think many people are aware of, the soul group is basically our family. It's our spiritual family. And there's anywhere between oh I don't know, six and twenty or so souls in each group.

And then there are a lot of adjacent soul groups that connect to our own. We're not only involved our own soul group. You could think of it like a neighborhood. The soul group lives in one house and a little family together, and then there are houses that are next door and across the street and down the street, and these are all adjacent soul groups with whom we often have very significant and powerful connections of love and with

whom we reincarnate. Typically, we often reincarnate with our own so group at the same time, the same place, in various relationships.

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looking for a coat. You try on different coats, Maybe none of them fit, maybe a couple of them fit, those that fit, those that make you feel great, take them for your life. That's the same with different concepts around the afterlife. For all the billions of people who have ever lived, in the billions of ways that we've lived our life, I have a sneaky suspicion that there's not just one exact way that we experience our transitions

depends on our beliefs and so forth. So now we'll get back to doctor McKay and he's talking about soul groups and reincarnating as soul groups.

and in the afterlife there's a lot of fun. I just want to mention that that there's music, there's games, there's partying, literally partying where people get together and just enjoyed the love of each other and catch up and community indicate there's a lot of things that we do in the afterlife that are really pleasurable and recreational, and

we do that in our soul group as well. There's a particularly soul group that Jordan is and they call it the Farm because when in the afterlife, you can create images, and so whatever you actually think or imagine, you can create that image in such a way that it has a kind of a certain reality. And so that particular soul group has created a house that looks like a farmhouse, and for that reason they call their little group the Farm. And of course there's a celebration,

there's an re engagement. Now, I just want to say something that might be of interest. Part of our soul energy always stays in the afterlife. It always stays, so we are always present in our soul group. We are always present in the afterlife, even though we incarnate. And so when we incarnate, part of our soul energy enters a body, but part of our soul energy always remains in the after life. So we reunite with the part

of our energy that has always been there. It's a more full and vibrant energy because now all of our energy is in one place, but it is also an opportunity now to do more learning. So a lot of what we do should have fun is we engage in a lot of learning. There are guys who are specialty teachers that come in to our soul group and offer lessons about all manner things, but we also engage in learning in other ways. One of the big things that we do is we visit the Kashak Record as part

of our learning process in the afterlife. And the Akashak Record is I'm sure many know you can think of it as a gigantic library, and in it it's contained everything that's ever happened. It's everything that's ever happened, particularly everything that's ever happened to any conscious entity conscious of soul. And a lot of the Kashak Record also involves incarnations and what each soul did in the incarnation on many, many countless planets, because we incarnate on many many different planets,

Earth being one of the more difficult ones. So we do a lot of studying of that, and part of that is studying the life we live, but also the life we might have lived, so we can actually in the caution record, we can look at what if I decided something else? And then a chapter opens and we can now see the outcome of what that would have looked like had we made that other choice. And there's a lot of learning that comes from that. And we

can do the same thing with other souls. We can go back and take a look at Abraham Lincoln and see, Okay, what would have happened if he didn't sign the Emancipation Proclamation? What would have been the outcome were going to see? We could study that. So we're studying outcomes, We're studying what happens when you do X and Y and z. And there's so much learning there. So it's not just what I did, but what I might have done, or choices that were potential but ever made. So it's a

beautiful opportunity. And when we certainly close up the record, that chapter becomes null. It's not like a parallel universe. It's just a possible universe that exists just as long as we were observing it and learning from it, and then close it, it goes back into a kind of avoid state.

we do that? What is the point of pain? What Jordan says is that we incarnate in order to learn how to love in the face of pain. That's the main task we have here. We are learning how to love. See, in the spirit world, love exists without qualification. We just exist in the state of love. Love is essentially the air that we breathe in the spirit world, and it's

what connects all of us. But we incarnate to learn how to love intentionally, meaning how to love in the face of obstacles and push back from the world we live in. Maybe a silly example would be the parent who comes home is exhausted and is worn out and their kid is upset by something and it needs some help with their homework and so forth. We have to love in the face of the pain of the tiredness. Maybe we had a bad day of work, we're feeling anxious.

In the face of the anxiety, Maybe we're upset with our kid because they've been misbehaving, and so we have to love in the face of that anger or irritation. So that's what love is about. That's what we're learning here, how to love in the face of these obstacles, in the face of the pain, and the pain is teaching us how to love. It's teaching us how to love. In the spirit world, there is no pain, and love is effortless. But we have to learn how to love intentionally,

and that's what we come here to do. And the last thing I'll say, it's just another comment here, is that everything we're learning we come here to learn, and everything we're learning we're uploading to all. So not only are we learning it as individual souls, but our mission here is to keep teaching all, is to give all

everything that we've learned and it uploaded. And so the mission of learning to love in the face of pain and everything else that we learn about this existence is given to all, and all continues to grow and develop and evolve. Now, some people think that God is perfect and it doesn't evolve and doesn't grow. That's not at all true for you. To Jordan, God is evolving. God,

all of consciousness is evolving, growing and continually learning. And the means by which most of God's learning occurs is us incarnating in physical worlds, and all the things we learn become part of the knowledge of God.

of it. And so when you talk about, you know, feeling the love of God and feeling the love and connection to God, what we're talking about is oneness. We're talking about feeling the love of all because we're all connected with love. That's what holds God together, That's what holds all consciousness together, and in fact, everything, the conscience creates, all the world's, all the physical, everything is held together

with the gravity of love. So when we're feeling the love of God, we're feeling that oneness, that deep connection to all, and the love that holds it all together, holds all of us together and unites us and connects us as one. So it's a little different than in my understanding from Jordan's, a little different from God is

an entity personality that showers love out. But Jordan's understanding, what he's taught me is that we are all God, and the love we experience is the love of connectedness to all and everything that exists, and that love is something shared as opposed to showered on us, if that makes sense. It's something that we all share and experience together as opposed to an entity, showers us with love.

content in order to keep listening. If I want to open the channel so my boy can talk to me, then I'll also have to live with a doubt, perhaps even ridicule, Matt. So many people we doubt our own thoughts. We worry about what other people have to say about what we're doing. What would you say that helped.

So if we're going to say I have to have certain need to do this, and most of us will not be able to do.

I'm Sander Champlain, and we're with doctor Matthew McKay, author of the book Seeking Jordan. How I learned the truth about death and the invisible Universe. I had just asked him about doubt. Very difficult to think. Are these thoughts coming in my mind? Are they mine? Or are they really from someone in the afterlife. So as we continue on, we'll talk about pushing through doubt, We'll talk about grief, and he'll share with us his method of connecting to loved ones and even our soul.

But it's just what you said. It's pushing through the doubt, and doubt shows up for me still. I have moments where the thought occurs to me, is this real? Or something Jordan says makes me wondering, what would you just say? Does that make sense? And oftentimes even just starting the process, I have to start with the awareness that I have fear that something might happen that might lead me to believe that it's not true, so that doubt is there.

I've been doing this now for fifteen years. I would say the doubt has diminished somewhat, but it still shows up. And so every time I start, I usually channel with Jordan once a week. Every time I start to channel, I can feel a little at that edge of anxiety that what if something happens here that makes me wonder

if this is true? And there's a little bit of doubt, And so I have to push through it because my biggest value is the love between Jordan and myself and enact that and be part of that and engage with him with love. That's my biggest value. And I have to do that even though sometimes there's some doubt.

have to hear. We have to do it in the face of pain and doubt is one of those difficult things.

We're not judged, we're not ridiculed, we're not examined, we're not turned back because of the things we did. So I just want to really emphasize that that that's one of the other really important things about the afterlife. It's a place of love and zero judgment, and there are no places where people go to and suffer. Okay, how do I chaml Sorry for that little digression, but it's perfect.

soul you're trying to communicate. By the way you can channel yourself. You can channel your own soul energy in the afterlife, and that could be an address you send communications, you can channel to guides and so anyway, just be clear on the address, who is it, what entity are you seeking to communicate with. I think it's sometimes it's very helpful in terms of communicating to the souls who

we knew in life and have died. Is to have a little talentman, something that connects us to a physical object, something that maybe they gave us, something that belonged to them. I use Jordan. I use actually this business card that he had that says Jordan McKay that the CEO of Mega Technology there was no Mega Technology. He used this to get into trade shows when he was in high school. But I keep the card because it just reminds me of his humor. And it's just the quality of a

person to create a person. And that's my talents. But you find one of your own and get something that's nexts you to that person in a physical way. It really is helpful. For eye fixation. Just use a candle, just something that holds your attention. You can look at it, but it could be anything that could be a mandala or some sort of sea polish stone or Celtic not whatever.

But find something you can put your attention on and then take a breath, and as you exhale, now we're going to go into the kind of a symbol of a pasta meditation. As you exil, just form the intention to open the channel. Bring all tension down to the diaphragm. Focus on the diaphragm. It's a center of breath, center of life. On each outbreath. Count So first out breath, one second, but two, three, four, keep counting to ten. If you're starting to feel receptive and open, you can

start moving into channeling. If not, to another round of ten. So it's just a simple meditation where we attend to the breath. When there's a thought that comes up, let the thought go, go back to the breath, and just count each outbreath, each out there one, two, three, letting go of thoughts and returning to the breath. So it's very very simple meditation, and it's okay when thoughts show up, but just leave the thought as soon as you notice it and get back to the breath. So that gets

us into a kind of a receptive state. And then meanwhile, while you're doing the meditation, just keep your eyes fixed on the candle. What Ralph taught me, is this a little divination to add to this? And what you do is you visualize at worb just above your head, maybe six inches above your head, color the sun, and just visualize it there and then see it elongating into a tube like connection to the soul you're trying to reach.

And this is the channel opening we visualize it or and now we just visualize the channel opening all the way to that soul. And in fact, that's exactly what happens, because every soul in the afterlife who we love is just a thought of way, since we think about them, it opens the channel. And so the channel is opening as we are thinking about with love, we're thinking about that soul that we want to connect to, and so

the channel is now open. I think it's really important is to make sure that the communications are written down. So get it in a notebook or whatever. But you have to paper and have a writing implement and write your question down, write your first question down, and then wait. The answer will show up in your mind. But the answer is being channeled or it's being communicated telepathically, so just wait and it can come in different ways. Sometimes it comes as a big download. Just a huge download.

It doesn't even words just knowing. Sometimes it comes as an image or a picture. Sometimes it comes as a few distinct words, you're very succinct. Sometimes it comes as a phrase, and then you have to wait for the phrase to turn into a whole sentence, and then you may wait a little bit for the next sentence, and sometimes it comes slowly. So it comes in all different ways, and it's okay. Every way is fine. If it comes as a picture or just knowing, then you have to

find words to describe the knowing or the picture. But in every case, write down what you get, whether it's just a few words, very very compressed information, or in some cases it's many, many sentences, and just stay with it until it stops. Stay with it until the communication stops, and then you write down the next question. And the other thing is the act of writing. Watching that on the page is part of channeling because it actually puts

us in a very receptive state. Literally watching the ink form on the page puts us in very recept state. So that's why it's so important in my view to write down the questions and the answers that come down. The other reason you want to write down the answers is you want to have a record to look back on later. I have lots of things that Jordan has said to me and I'll go back years later just read them and go, oh my god, I forgot that and that's important and that actually happens to me all

the time. So having the record helps preserve the learning that you're getting. And you can ask anything. You can ask how that soul is, what they're doing. At one point I asked Jordan if he incarnated, he had incarnated as a little girl, and he could tell me some things about that life if I was curious. But you can ask about what's happening with the soul right now, what they're learning in the afterlife. Jordan's talked a lot about that. He's learning a lot about how to influence people,

how to influence people to see things in new ways. Also, you can ask about what is going on up there, what is the afterlife like. Also you could ask advice for your own life. These souls are very wise. Every soul has had many, many lives, and they have the benefit of wisdom that we've forgotten. When they come here, we leave that behind as part of the amnesia of life. So they have all this wisdom, so we can ask their advice. I Jordan about advice about everything about his sister.

How should I respond to this or that? I asked him work problems. I asked his advice. While I'm doing a psychotherapy session, I'm feeling stuck, what do I do now? And he speaks up and usually it's something that didn't occur to me. And so you can ask for advice. We can ask for the nature of reality that can help let us form a new or a more accurate cosmology of how things really are and why we're here, and we could ask about them and what's going on

for them. I think it is important though, in these communications to convey love to that soul, to send them love in whatever form, because they need our love just like we need their love. It enhances their existence. So sending love, I think is an important part of channeling when we're channeling love on something, So that's basically it. It's pretty much as simple as that. And after furious silence, when you finish one question, you can just write another one again.

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The next question or I asked him to clarify it, or I'll even mentioned to him, boy, I'm feeling a lot of uncertainty, and so he'll just respond to that at some way, so I bring it into the conversation. But I think it's important to just keep going, don't give up when doubt shows up, don't stop, stay with it.

There's so many people, and myself included, we want immediate results. We want maybe the lights to flicker on and off or something so obvious it takes something from us. I think it's not that they can't give us good signs, because they can, but to open up that relationship and keep it going. So would it makes sense to make a date with our loved ones and keep that journal And today's date is such and such. How often did you channel with Jordan when you started.

and that's what feeds the relationship. And you talk to them, you connect, You find out what's going on with them, They find out what's going on with you, and through that process, love flows between you. And I think it's exactly the same thing with loved ones in the affli and Jordan has been so clear about this, I guess I want to say this that relationships always live. It doesn't matter if that person dies, the relationship lives. That person is just a thought away. They love us, and

the love is still living, still active, still flourishing. And that's true regardless of whether we connect to them or not, whether we channel or not. But when we channel, we get to act on that love ourselves and we get to bathe in the love. We get to feel the love, which is such a beautiful thing. That's one of the

things that is so wonderful for me there. It doesn't happen to every time I channel, but there are moments when I just feel Jordan's love all through me and I feel my love for him inside my body, and it's just such a beautiful moment. And that's one of the rewards of channeling, is feeling that love as an act of living, experience beautiful words.

a period of grief. And I think sometimes there's complicated things about grief, and sometimes grief actually blocks the channel. So people are waiting for the loved ones to show up or a period to them or give them a sign, and their grief is so powerful it kind of blocks the channel and the loved one can't get through. But also paradoxically, if you deliberately open the channel during grief,

I think it can make it. The communication is more intense, more beautiful in some ways because now we're just not conveying words, we're conveying our deepest feelings, our love on the deepest level. So the grief actually is an opportunity to open the channel with great power and truthfulness. And the two things here, one is don't be afraid of the wave. Let the wave come. See, people are afraid

of grief because they think it's a model. Oh the grief's gonna come, it's gonna crush me and down I go. I won't be able to survive. But it doesn't work like that. It's just a wave and a wave subsides, and after a period of time there'll be another way. The longer out to go be after the person's death. Usually the waves are further apart, and sometimes they're a

little less intense. But it's also possible years later you can have a wave that goes right through the roof and ride it and allow it and don't be afraid of it, and that wave is actually an opportunity to connect. I just want to encourage people to allow the feeling. On some level, the feeling is beautiful because what makes grief so intense is the love, and so when we allow the grief, we're also allowing the love. And I

guess I want to encourage people to do that. And the last thing I will say about grief is I've learned if I could put that way to grieve Jordan's physical absence, and he'd be thirty nine. Now. I don't get to see him grow up. I don't get to see him having I mean, he was twenty three when he died. They're not going to be a family. His girlfriend when he died has a new partner and has a kid, and I won't get to have any of that I or get to observe any of that, or

be part of any of that. Jordan in his life doesn't get to have that. And so I can have grief about his physical absence, but I don't have grief about he's gone. And I don't have grief about the love I have for him has nowhere to go, or the love he has for me I can't receive. That is not part of the grief. The grief is just limited to, Oh, his physical presence is not here, but Jordan is here. Jordan is with me, and he says that to me all the time. Bill Tarious, I say

it all the time. He's done. I am with you. I am with you, and he is. So the grief is limited when we start really communicating and connecting, limited to just the loss of that physical manifestation of that soul.

So enjoyed being with you, son.

But the more we do this, the more we will be convinced that it is our loved ones speaking. I came across a few quotes today that I want to share with you, not about the afterlife, but about living life. Often it's very hard to take the first step in the direction of our dreams, and it may be to do the practice doctor mackay told us about today. William shed said a ship in a harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for. Donald Walsh said life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

My friend, it is so difficult being a human being. But when we venture out of the safe harbor and we have our eyes focused on a goal, miracles happen. You can fill the sales with gratitude and kindness and being of service to others. I think that's the recipe for a good life. As a reminder, my home base is we Don't Die dot com. If you enter your name and your email address on that front page down at the bottom, you get a free copy of my book. Chapter ten is how to Survive Grief. I do hope

you take me up on that. It's so powerful. We also offer our free Sunday gathering of course with medium demonstration included wonderful classes, demonstrations, events, and so much more. I'm Sandra Champlain and from the bottom of my heart, thank you for listening too Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.