Ben Higgins and Ashley.
I bring you Infamous. Sometimes roses are red flags.
Welcome to Infamous, because sometimes roses are red flags. Our story begins with Sidney Gordon, you know or from Joey season, from her feud with Maria. Sidney, Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
Ben.
Sydney's a little bit of a little nervous about talking to Ben. Because Ben was a little nervous. We'll just put it out there. Sometimes I think when you admit the nerves, it makes you feel a little relieved. So this podcast has really been a year in the making. We've wanted Sydney on for quite some time. Because I
nominated Sydney to go on the show. I thought she would be great, and I texted the producers as soon as they announced Joey was the Bachelor because that was the only guy that she was interested in possibly going on the show for. And then she became well, a villain of sorts to the audience, really unexpected to both of us.
You did say I would be prod for the show, and you technically weren't wrong.
Just didn't know that was the caricature you'd fall into. But yeah, so Ben was not easy on Sydney when we would do our recaps last year of Joey's season. We've wanted her on, like I said, for a whole year, but Warner Brothers nZk, the production company, they didn't want Sidney to do interviews. And now she is out of contract and allowed to do interviews without approval and we have her here today. Yeah.
I'm so excited, And honestly, I think everything happens for a reason. It's a good thing that I didn't go on the show a year and a half ago because my approach would have been so differently. And I've definitely had a lot of self discovery and growth in the year and a half and I probably would have left the podcast not feeling good, and obviously I wanted to be completely different this time around.
We want you to feel good, Sydney. Don't be nervous.
Oh thanks, Ben.
Let's just be honest.
How about that?
Okay, let's be honest. I want to start before we get into all the nitty gritty and all the things that viewers watched, and allow you the space to tell your story. I want to ask, are you thankful that Ashley signed you up for this show? Or do you look at Ashley as somebody that walked you into one of the worst decisions of your life.
So no, I would definitely say that I'm thankful for that experience. I made some friends that I will have for the rest of my life, and I definitely think I came out on top in the end from it. Yeah, No, I'm definitely thankful for the experience for sure.
Well, I'm glad that you're not mad at me. I do feel guilt time and time again. But now do you why do you feel like you came out on top?
So I mean, I I mean, I'm gonna throw astrology out there, ma Lea. I love attention and I like having people, you know, like me, and I always was seeking like validation from other people. And obviously, like when the whole world it felt like hated me, I had no choice but to just be like true to myself and just be okay with knowing who I am, you know, and the people that actually care about me know who
I am. So I think with that, you know, with that, and also I think it became a more well rounded person and understand other people better.
Okay, Well that's good, Yeah, good, that's good.
The interesting part of this is that actually just said she feels guilt. Yes, yeah, I was the one that was tough on you on this show obviously Ashley just the experience I feel.
Guilt for, like for having Ashley. She had to dig herself out of a hole.
No, no, no, you.
Had to like constantly be like no, like I see her side though, and like, you know, you didn't want to you know break you know your NBA underny of that because I was telling you things that probably shouldn't know. But no, Ben, I mean, you definitely took the popular vote, you know, the easy route.
So interesting. The easy route is fine.
I'll take that.
It was maybe the the more uh that was the majority opinion. However, it wasn't because of you as a person. Here is where my frustration lied with how you walk through this show. And I want to give you the space now before we start talking about Maria specifically, to really lean into you personally. What I experienced watching the show was a lot of excitement because of what Ashley told me about you. There was a lot of hope
that this experience would go really well for you. I didn't know a lot about how the experience went until the show started airing what we saw with Maria, and again, this moment isn't about Maria is character development, some growth, some like wiggling through some really difficult moments to get to a place where at the end of the day
people were rooting for her. What we didn't see in you, I felt like was many moments where that you could have turned the corner, you could have let things go, you could have moved past some of these arguments, and it felt like it was always getting drawn back to you. And so instead of moving on and being like, hey, this isn't working out for me, like people are mad, she's mad, I am just going to focus on my relationship and try to make this thing the best I can.
What the show showed us was at each and every episode that you were around, it continue to get brought up by you. And so my frustration was why doesn't she just move on? Like, why doesn't she just take a step outside of the scenario. So I want to give you a place to explain why either you didn't move on or why it didn't look like you moved on.
Okay, yeah, I mean I definitely you know you're film from the second you wave go up to the second go to bed. So I've had like so many different conversations with you know, Joey, with the girls in the house, and even with Maria, and they weren't all so like
intense and almost like cut through what you saw. I think there was a lot of like very like heartfelt and vulnerable conversations that I've had with Maria, even just like giving her the benefit of the doubt a lot of the time, and it just didn't make the final cut.
And I think, like that's just not the narrative that was set around who I was supposed to be, the character that I was supposed to be, Like, I wish that you could have seen that like more softer, quieter, more like reflective moments that I had, which I definitely had in the show, but you mostly saw like me in the heat of the moment with the reactions to things that had happened that I personally like tried to get away from but it just it just felt like it I could get away from it.
With Maria, Like You've always said that lots of girls, if not the majority, had issues with her. Why did they always show you as the spokesperson for everybody's issues?
Yeah, in my opinion, I wish that I knew that. I think like I think it all stems for like the first thing that had happened, which was the stupidest thing in the entire world, the age. And I mean also too, I do want to preface, like I don't think like going into like depth about every single thing is going to do us any good. Also, like he thought about it where we just ended Grant season.
Like it's been remember the details.
You don't remember the details, but yeah, so like I just want to like come on here and just give a little bit more like understanding, you know, just for the future Villains of America as well. But I think that basically where it all started was with the whole age comment. And it's funny because like it was with Medina had opened up about like her age and how she was she felt some type away about being the oldest one in the house.
Basically, you never see you never saw the conversation between me and Medina. You never saw me like toddling or whatever that because essentially never even happened. And I don't know, so basically what happened was Medina was insecure about it.
I think it might already been planted that people were talking about the age comment, but I just said she asked me, and I was just like yeah, I mean like Maria said something about her being old too, but like I don't know, it was never a thing. And then for some reason something got miscommunicated and it became this huge thing and it was like being talked about the house like who said this, Who's who's putting my
character in question? Kind of thing, and then I was just like, wait, like I heard you say it, though like it was more of like a instead of like I did hear you say it? And then it kind of just more of got of like a I think I got caught up in being more of like like why are you gaslighting? And that's very gas lighting is a terrim I didn't want to.
Yeah, yeah, don't go. Don't go into that in.
The moment kind of like what I felt about it, but it honestly was not a big deal. And then that whole situation kind of got squashed and like we moved on from it. But yeah, I think that looking back on it now, like I Mariana, I just like communicated so differently, just so differently. I think I'm more of a I'm more sensitive than her. I think that she works with more of like a if. You're a if, like your feelings get hurt from when I say, that's
like your problem, and like I understand that. And I think like her intentions were always good, whereas like before I thought they were kind of like malicious. But I just think she never she never meant any harm by anything. I think we just communicated differently.
What you'd say now is you look back and you're like, I was wrong to think that her intentions were not good. You now think her intentions were good throughout the process.
Yes, I would say that I think that I don't think her intentions were to ever hurt my feelings. I think that she just communicate communicates differently.
There's a thing here that I always kind of in a little bit of it is giving you the benefit of doubt. And also it's just a trick that the show can do to somebody when they get wrapped up in a moment like you did or in a thing that you did. What what happens is the show h from the inside makes you almost feel like a hero, like you're doing the right thing because you're standing up against a common enemy. And they make Maria feel like
a common enemy. They say things to you in private that she said, and they're like they you know, you are doing a great job by standing up to her, and as a result, when it airs, sometimes that gets switched over and you realize that you're actually the one that's speaking up so much, and it makes you look like a villain instead of the hero, which you felt during the process of the show, like you were standing up for your friends and really nobody else wanted you to.
Was this what happened to you, because it has happened to many before when you're in the environment, did you feel like you were doing the right thing?
Yeah, I think you just hit the nail on the head. Like I definitely felt like I was, you know, standing up to the person that everyone had a problem with. And I think that looking back at it now, I should have prioritized instead of being like this hero, more of like the real reason why I was there. But at the end of the day, I you know, when you when you start the show, you don't have communication with anybody. You can't talk to your friends, can't talk
to your family. See, you just find somebody that you trust, and I like fully trusted my producer like so much, and like there was times where I was like super overwhelmed, crying in her arms, and then she'd be like, oh my god, sending like Maria was just mocking you in the camera while you were crying, and I'm just like why, bitch, Like why would she do that? And then it's just like, wait did now looking back and I'm like, wait, did
she actually though? Or you know, it was just a bunch of those little things that constantly added up into making me like feel you know, hurt and upset and angry in all those things, and like what you saw was my reaction to that. So that's kind of where I think it. Even though I really I did really try hard to get away from the drama, it just felt like it was never ending.
Sucks you in.
Yeah, a lot of times we talk about, you know, the edit. You know, people kind of hate hearing that, like it was the edit that made me look bad, right, the audience just doesn't want to hear that. But there's one thing that we don't talk about when it comes to the edit, and that is like character development. And
with you, you didn't really have any. All you had was that you jumped right into drama with somebody else, but we didn't get to know you at all before that, Like even your exit from the limo was like an nothing you had nothing night one, Like I remember watching the screener and then texting you and being like, you're going to be disappointed at Night one, like you're not in it, And I think that obviously that's a mechanism that's part of the edit, right, It's a mechanism for
people not to latch onto for like any likable qualities, and then you jump into the drama and they just don't have any any reason to say, like, oh I like this girl, so they're immediately on the other person's side, who has, in Maria's case, had a ton of character development. How frustrating was that for you?
Yeah?
No, And like do you have examples in which, like the audience could have learned to like you?
Yeah, definitely. It was like when the drama started, it was like a Team Maria team versus Team Sidney, but there was no Team Sidney, Like why would there be? They didn't even know who I was. I just came like a came out of nowhere, Like Night one, you barely saw me, like I had like a great interaction with Joey, like a little bit of banter. We love Matt and that have a banter, but and you know,
like a really good conversation. I was like super confident in that, and then because the audience never really saw that, it almost was like looking like I'm jealous of this person and like her confidence and her connection and all of that, when at the end of the day, like it was never that I never even saw the version of her that you know everyone else saw, which honestly, like looking back and like wow, watching her, I'm like if I knew this of her, like we'd be friends.
Like I like think that, you know, she is really
cool and like how everyone else sees her. But yeah, I just think that I've had so many conversations and like that were heartfelt and they just like with Joey with the girls in the House, like you see it now, like if you follow me on social media, Like I'm still really close with a lot of the girls in the House, and like I wish that the show showed that because there was so many moments where like, like I supported the women and like there were so many parts where I was just so much more like it
was just so much beyond the tension. And also like I'm I wouldn't say I'm funny, but I'm like very witty, and I feel like there was a lot of times I was super witty in my itms, and like no one saw that, even just like bits with the girls, like we were just did stupid things like I wish that people got to see my relationship with the girls and you know, see who I am as a person, and then maybe things would have made little bit more sense.
You said something earlier, you said, I took the popular opinion.
I think it's.
Interesting I did. No, I agree with it. I did. I took the popular opinion, and I don't feel bad because I know what actually, Okay, That's where I'm going with this is. You know, Ashley's told me the kind of person you are. I never said, oh my gosh, this city is a terrible human, like how does she exist in this world? It was a legitimate critique of
what I witness on a television show. And I think for this specific infamous section, there's a few things I want to point out and then ask you a question based on it. The behind the scenes of this is interesting. What they did, was they I'm trying to think of the right word. They manipulated you to feel like a hero and to continue a storyline that was unhelpful for
you personally. And so I can see where when you're in the house, you have a polarizing character and Maria, she's loud, she's outspoken, and they say, we need somebody to go after her, and Sydney, you just happen to be the one they chose to be the focus point to go after her, to make to be what you felt like was a hero in the house, to stop this person that you felt like was harming the environment, and you don't know what the outcome is going to
be until the show airs. And so when I took the popular opinion, what I was doing was I was watching a show and saying, like I said, why doesn't she stop this behavior? This is unnecessary? Why doesn't she move on? She's never going to win this battle. She's in a vacuum of chaos, and she's never going to get out until she chooses to get out. So my question is coming to you now, we can blame editing.
I hate it. I hate that we blame editing because what happened was this wasn't edited to make you look this way. It was manipulated in the house, I feel like to make you be this way. And so I think the personal responsibility for any future cast member is to at some point go, they're really making me focus on this girl a lot. They're asking me a lot of questions about this one human. They're really firing me
up about this one human. No, I'm going to put my stake in the ground and say I'm done with it. I got one thing to focus on. That's the lead, that's Joey here in this scenario. So looking back and this whole thing now, and you know what it felt like when we're watching it, It still felt a little
chaotic to me. When was a moment that you would have put your foot down, Like, when was a moment that you should have said, I'm done with this, this isn't gonna be, this isn't helpful for me or somebody else, or did that ever come to your mind.
There was so many moments where I said I'm done. I'm not talking about this. Like the amount of times you've seen me and Maria's interactions that barely scratched the surface We've had way more conversations than that one where like I stormed off. I'm like, this is just we're not getting anywhere, like we're let's just agree to disagree. The amount of time said let's just agree to disagree. I said that so many times, and it just it
just wasn't enough. I think that this was what, this is really what the only drama that was going on in some way they it that just kept continuing it and like I was definitely naive, Like I wish I wasn't as naive as I was, and I you know, I believe them in saying like you know, you know, she's she's talking about you again. I'm like, so about me again, like you know, and I'm I wish it for someone like okay, letter, all right, sure.
Yeah, but I will also give you credit here because I don't have the personality that can do that, and I don't think that you could either, And that's okay, yeah.
No, I definitely didn't. And like I mean, I grew up in New England, like we were told like you say something, you see something, you say something. If somebody gets in your face, you get on your face back. That was kind of like how I grew up and like, so I don't know, that's just just who I am. And like when I left the show, I told Ashley, I was like, I'm so proud the person that I was, Like my family would be proud of, like me sticking
up to like the mean girl. Like that was actually like how I left the show feeling like I was actually super proud of that. But then you know, now looking back at it, like we're all humans, Like we're all humans. I think, like I do feel bad thinking about the times where like Maria probably did feel very ginged up on and like that was never my intentions, Like my intentions were never to be like your horror person,
you're a mean girl, you're this, you're that. My my intentions are more to like to just be like, hey, like you do this is how you come off to people. I think, like you're not intending to, but like you're hurting people's feelings. And that was like what it was originally, but then it obviously escalated into just I was like you you're a bitch, you know, And I wish I'd never ever got to that point because that goes against like everything I believe in. And then but yeah, I love it to learn.
We are going to wrap up part one in a little bit, but I wanted to end on some light notes with you, said, so I signed you up for the show the second Like I said earlier in the episode that Joey was announced and you showed a little interest, I was like, yo, I think that I can get you on the show, no problem. I end up texting one of our close producer friends that was still there. Unfortunately, if somebody wants me to sign them up from the show now, it's gonna be a lot harder. But you
made the perfect timeline. I texted them pictures and immediately they were interested in you. And I thought that you'd be so good on the show because obviously you're beautiful. But all my girlfriends who have met you at your shop Folk, which you guys, is a very cool vintage shop in Newport, Rhode Island. It's a must go to if you're ever visiting here. All my friends that I would take to go there, they would be like, oh my god, this it is so cool, Like she's such
a cool girl. She intimidates me, like they all thought that she was so awesome, had the best style, a cool like nonchalant personality. You were just like so easy, breezy, effortless cool to us. And then and then the same with Audrey's. So we I met sid because she was
the social media organizer. You ran our social media at Audrey's, and then she ended up taking not over my social media, but doing like whenever i'd have a big ad, I'd have sid record it on her really awesome camera, and she's so good at videography and she's so good at editing, so any content that we needed that was like of a high quality. We really made sure that Sidney was there for us. And I was like this girl, Like she has an amazing career, she's got a great personality,
and she's beautiful and she's cool girl. She's gonna be great on the show. I always predict that you would get to like top four. Then you came home and you told the story and you were convinced you were the hero. You're like ash, it was just like you. I had the two on one and I called out the villain and I was like, oh no way, I'm like totally thinking that you're gonna have a very similar character arcis.
I did.
And then Jared was listening to tell the story, and he you didn't leave. You left, and he was a little less confident than I was.
No, he called it early like he was like, ooh, I don't know. He's like, is the fact that I also went home so like much earlier, you know I've been telling I was like, everyone's gonna be sad I went home.
That's so funny. I felt very similarly when I came back from Crystals this season. But there is always when you are the person that is in the drama, whether you are the good guy or the bad guy, whatever you want to make it, it's like when you're telling the story I was involved in the drama, I was like, you know, I was the one that took them down. You're like, oh, but there's a fifty to fifty chance you don't really know which of you was the villain, right,
And that's what Jared was concerned about. He was like, if she was one of the two, there's like a fifty percent chance, said she was the one that's going to go down in flames.
Yeah, I know. I mean I was just going off of two of Like, I mean, the energy of the house. I'm like, everyone feels the same way as me. And then like also like I mean my producer said, there was like no way that she was gonna be getting good at it or anything, but like, yeah, no, it's honestly, I'm so glad that we can look back at it now and just like laugh.
Yeah.
But obviously actually, like remember when we were watching it back is obviously you you saw the episode before I saw it, because I saw like everybody else. Yeah, you said to me the worst thing like, yeah, you look bad and like a lot of it, but like the worst thing is the cheer.
Oh yes, that episode, because I think that was maybe the first episode where you're starting to have the creepy music behind you, where like you're trying to steer yeah right, no, just I mean, like in general, like they were trying to put the villain music behind you, and I was like, oh, okay,
I see what they're kind of doing here. And then there was that she and I was like, yeah, you don't look great because you look cringey, you don't look evil, but they were already trying to at that point make you be the lesser likable one in comparison to Maria. Yeah, because do you want to give the little context to the cheer.
Oh yeah, I mean, like I knew I didn't have a talent, Like I was, Like I even said I was it.
Was a talent show, guys, if you don't remember, it was a talent show.
Yeah, And so basically I was like I went because there was a pageant. So it was a pageant and then there was a talent portion in the Yeah. Well I this is what I said in my itms, but it got a little bit cut up. But I said, well, I was on the Miss USA pageant because there was no talent, Like you don't have you don't have to have.
A Miss Usa.
Yeah, Missusa, you don't have to have a talent. So it's like, yeah, my mom put me in that knowing I didn't have a talent.
Which is truly funny when you say it like that.
And then like also like I was, I was like, you know, I'm just gonna make a fool of myself. I don't care, like it's a joke if you I mean, so many people like CHRISA for example, she she picked up the trombone and you were like, oh my god, this girl she knows how to play drummone Nope, she had no idea, but she just she I don't even know if they even showed that talent, but it was
so funny. So it was just like a theme where we were just making fun of ourselves and making it light and fun and then like watching it back and making it look like I was like dead serious. Was honestly hilarious, but it was like people's reaction. I was like, oh, but honestly, yeah, no, it was hella cringey. But honestly, I think my my my cheer l O V E Joe is the one for me, And I think that's like pretty clever.
It's cute. I like that, but like the audience cheered for you, and it wasn't an awkward vibe in the audience, right.
He added crickets, Yeah, that's cool.
And is that the most traumatic moment that happened to you? And the airing back and it was, guys are very sad. Like Sydney would come over and just be like texting her friends from the group, you know, from the show on the group chat, trying to figure out like how people were interpreting all of this, and she'd be crying. It was in like the in Instagram and TikTok brutal and yeah, but you have recovered in a beautiful way and people line up at your store, you know during
your bin sales. You have an amazing business. Now, would you say that the show helped your business? I think it was always doing well, but yeah, no, I mean.
It definitely did. People come in and they're like, oh my god, I watched you on the Bachelor, and like, I thankfully every person that has come up to me has been so sweet and so kind, and it is like, honestly, it's made every like obviously people on social media can be ruthless, like I have never experienced somebody in person, like everyone's been so kind and like, yeah, I mean at the end of the day, all press is good press,
I guess. And I like when people do come into the store and like we'll have like watch my watch me on the show, have an idea or me come up to me and then like actually have a conversation with me and be like wow, okay, like you are not what I thought at all. So I actually really enjoy changing people's minds. God.
So yeah, all right, well brand notes, all right, we will finish with the dramatic stuff later on. This week during our part two of the interview with Sidney Gordon, so stay tuned for that. We love you guys.
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