Infamous: Clayton Echard

Ben Higgins, and Ashley. I bring you Infamous. Sometimes roses are red flags.

Welcome to Infamous, because sometimes roses are red flags. Our story continues today with Clayton Eckert. You know him from Michelle Young season and from his time as the Bachelor. Clayton, Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having you, guys. This is a new little thing that you got going. Huh.

It is so Clayton. We have talked to you many times about all the Fantasy Suite drama right the I slept with all of you, or I.

Was into it with all of you. I love all of you.

But we're going to start today the beginning of your season because there was a very well known villain on your season, Shane. She had pushed Elizabeth during an obstacle course, she called Elizabeth's ADHD diagnosis fake, and then there was shrimp Gate. But you kept Shane along for quite some time. Were you What was your opinion of her in the house? Was it true to what we saw on TV?

Yeah?

I mean, to be honest with you, it was such a small part of my story and my experience. I didn't even know half of that stuff was going on because I was so focused on the other women in my connections with them. That Like when it first got brought up, I just said, okay, I thought it was a one off thing. And you know we all understand that. Well, each episode, it's two hours long on TV, comprises I think four days of filming at sixteen hours a day of filming, so do the math, you know.

It was at sixty four hours.

It made it seem the edit because again it's all people tune in for the entertainment, for the drama, so it made it seem as though that was a massive storyline and it wasn't. To me like the experience I had, it was like it was like Ohne's side comment by the way, she's SE's created some drama. So like when I watched the show, I was like, whoa, this was acting like this is the main plot line. Like I

It's always the big question, and I think from my standpoint, I agree with Clayton from the lead. You don't see all this stuff already know it's all happening, but it's a story that's going on, and the longer they can let it happen without you knowing it, the more content they get to show. Clayton, you've said recently to us that you have a better relationship. I don't know if you've exactly defined it as good, but a better relationship with production today, and I that's a little bit confusing

No.

So I was at after the final Rows recently, and I would say there was about six or eight familiar faces that came in, executive producers, handlers, just people that were a part.

Of my when I was the Bachelor that were around.

So I again, I didn't see how much of the rest of the team was there. I didn't get to talk to the cameramen and women. Honestly, I was kind of more so taking in all these other things. But there was enough familiar faces and they had come and checked in with me and we had good conversations. But I'm more so saying that, like I guess, yeah, more of a blanket statement. I'm more so in good graces with like the production element of or maybe and who knows how they view me, but like I'm okay with

So with that, I'm like it's not personal, you know, I can't. These people aren't monsters, They're just they have a job to do, and you signed up for it. You just weren't really aware of what all it was going to.

Entail when you're watching the show back. Was there one time besides like before Fantasy Sweet Drama where you were like, holy crap, like that surprised me, like I can't believe that happened, or that is not the way that happened.

Uh, yeah, I would say, I'm trying to think what came up.

My one thought was there was there was.

There was a point where we had like a psychotherapy date or and uh at the end of it, the psychotherapist was like, hey, I had a great time getting to know you all today, but there's someone here that's not here for the right reasons or they d something along those lines.

And she says that, and then they turned.

She turns to me, and I just look at her and I go all right, well, I'm not really sure what that's about, but let's just go ahead and go to the after party or whatever. And then the show was like hold on, stop, Clayton, that's it, And I was like, I'm not really gonna put much weight into that. Guys, like, I'm not really too concerned about it. I don't I don't agree with what her assessment. They're like, no, you

Because of what Sarah was saying, I was like, what is going on?

Like why am I not being informed about this? So, yeah, it was stuff like that. There was like always I started to realize later in the show, I'm like, stuff is happening and I'm not being told, like because I guess I'm not there, so technically I shouldn't be told, but like, also, I feel like I need to know if someone's about to leave.

Clayton, there's a and your season doesn't get credit for it, but I feel like there was a big storyline coming out of your season around sex that wasn't as discussed as maybe other seasons that we think of when we think of physical intimacy. There there was criticism based on how defensive you seemed, and watching it back, you did seem defensive.

I don't know.

You could argue with me and say you weren't or it didn't seem like that. But from the show standpoint, it did seem like it. When Susie was talking about her boundaries, it was criticized publicly. Now watching it back and now being removed from it, were you defensive? Was that just what the show made it seem like? What was your thoughts at the time as you sat I think it was at a dinner table.

Yeah, I mean, I think what you saw is what you saw. That was my reaction.

That was my reaction, though, four hours into a conversation, and it was in the last five minutes, you know, when I realized They're like, we gotta go, you guys, got to wrap this conversation up. And so as my back felt against the wall and everything felt like it was falling apart, and I started to question, if you know, if Susie was you had all to your motives and I started basically getting in my head. And so those final five to ten minutes. I was like, I, you know,

My tone like this.

You know, I think I got fed to the wolves. I'm like, I don't think I know people. I'm not trying to compare.

But at the end of the day, it was a four hour conversation.

The final ten minutes, I lost my cool bit, and you know, I take accountability for that. People didn't like the way I reacted, but that's I felt, you know that I was my back was against the wall and everything was slipping, and I was, you know, grasping at straws, and I was in a really uncomfortable spot, and so, you know, yeah, I was just trying to say or do the right thing to keep her around and she wasn't willing to And at that point I felt like

It was a four hour conversation. What did the other four hours look like?

Sound like they were fine?

I mean they were very cordial, but then things started to just go sideways where and it wasn't shown, but it's like I just wanted I did not want to have the conversation that was shown on camera. I was like begging to do it off camera, and we signed contracts saying that we are going to put everything on camera outside of Fantasy Suite, So like I wanted to,

But I didn't have a choice.

So when I was sorry to realize, like you have to have this conversation, I'm like, Okay, I have to navigate this and say the thing and every word like could potentially give up more information than I want. But she needs to know what happened, because she asked me directly, have you expressed feelings lovever been intimate with the other women? And I was like, well, that's a direct question. I chanced skirt around this. If I skirt around it, I'm

It felt like watching it, and this infamous series is a lot about what's the secrets of behind the scenes, kind of pulling back the layer and getting to the real part. It felt like watching your season. It was shocking to me that production was able to keep you around.

Well, she said that at the live show, I guess so, and I was prepped with a You're going to have at most fifteen seconds to respond. So when that was said to me, I said, no, like, there's literally I can't go into detail.

This is a live show. I have to just deny this because.

It wasn't anyways, But I understand that she was hurt and and her and I've talked since then, We've made amend, So you know, I'm I'm not going to falter for what she said, but I was basically told you of fifteen seconds for whatever she says. And so when she said that, my brain was like computing and I'm like, there's literally nothing else you can say in this timeframe

And also like, listen, I've never claimed to be a saint.

You know, I have a past, and I would just say like I've never you know, it's not like I was desperate to finally be intimate with a woman like I'd never been before. So you know, that was like the narrative that got spun was like Clayton saying whatever you needs to say to get these women in bed, and I'm like, that's ridiculous, Like that's stupid. I just if I was going to actually get engaged at the end of the show, which I opened my mind up to, I said, yeah, I'll do it.

But if I'm going to get engaged, I need to make sure that we're sexually compatible.

That's just that's just if we were going to walk out here being boyfriend girlfriend like, then yeah, I don't need to be intimate. But if I'm actually gonna propose, and this is serious to me, I don't care TV or not, like if I'm going to need to propose with a ring, this is serious.

So I need to make sure there's sexual compatibility.

So second I made that decision that I was ready to get down on one knee. That's where I was like, Okay, hey, I'm going to go explore these relationships fully. And each of the women said that to me forbadihim, I want you to explore the relationships fully as I walked into overnights. That was said by every all three of those women

You know, I took it the wrong way.

But if you tell a man man that, I think he perceives it a bit differently than a woman potentially, or at least I did.

Yeah, this is tough stuff, Ben, What is your take?

I mean, I think, well, one, I want to comment on the fifteen seconds to respond that is a just a spot on scenario that happens on this show.

Like it just does. Like, Hey, we're going to put you on the live show.

Just want to let you know, like this is going to get kind of ugly for a bit and you're gonna have fifteen seconds to say something to like pretty much like complete the conversation. You're like, no, that's so. I just want to make note that for any listener as we talk about some of the behind the scenes here without breaking our NBA's like, that is a very common thing. It means, it's very real. It's not edited to make it look like it was only fifteen seconds.

I think.

My thought as the lead is as a former lead when it comes to fantasy suites and intimacy, I mean, I think Clayton. The only thing I would say was like, you should have asked for not for no other reason than mostly so that what happened at the end of your show didn't happen like clarity, Like what do you exactly mean by that? Like, Hey, this is you know, very a very like thrown up, Like I'm still kind of confused, I'm feeling things for all of you. Clarity

Right? What are we good about.

Here as a couple? Yeah, And you didn't, and that's probably where the mistake was made and why the feelings were hurt. I also think, and I goodness, gracious, we love Rachel so much on this podcast, I think you had three really big personalities at the end of your season, really strong, outspoken people women, and I think they were just going to say what they felt and what they were thinking no matter what, because that's who they are

Yeah, I mean that's a good I mean, yes, they're very powerful personalities, each of them. Each of them are doing really well in their own ways, and some of them are you know, really blowing up in the reality TV world and some are just making you know, they're still doing really great.

With brand partnerships.

But yeah, they I mean you see like they're still years later, very prominent in their respective fields.

So it's yeah, I mean it's a good spot on assessment.

And they you know, were unapologetically themselves and so when they had the moment, they're like, I'm gonna speak my mind, and they did and they had the right to do that.

So but you're spot on.

You.

I also accountability. I could have always asked more questions and I've learned that, So it's good. See you're learning.

I think that's sometimes the producers know the lead better than sometimes the lead knows themselves. At this point, and they order the last three contestants in a certain way when it comes to fantasy Suites, too, really mess with your mind. I feel maybe just as a viewer. I'll tell me if I'm wrong that, like, inside, you knew that it was going to be Susie, and then they intentionally made it so that she would be last that week to really mess with you, all right.

I can talk about this part because they did let me.

I said it on a podcast like two years ago, and then I was like, you guys can cut that out, and they left it in and production it cleared it.

I can say this was switched.

Susie was supposed to be first, and I said I wanted to go first because I was the most in love with her, And so I said, hey, I'm pretty certain unless she hits me with something political or she says something that's like a deal breaker in.

The fancy suites.

And I even say, I'm not really even political, but like if she if there's something she says or does, or if we have no sexual compatibility, like then I can move forward with the other two women, you know, because it's not meant to be.

But if all goes well on.

The overnights, then I will, you know, basically end it right there, and so I was, yeah, most in love with her, but I had love, you know, and with the other women as well, it just wasn't as strong.

At that point.

I was like, I'm close to making a decision, but I guess I'm still the door is still open if things go wrong.

On overnights with Susie. And they weren't. They weren't going to have that. They they said, noe, we're we're putting her third.

And so they said, you've kept an open mind, so keep an open mind with these women. And I, you know, I said, well, what happens if she's not okay with like what happens in the fantas wet It's like, wow, Well they said that you stop woor relationships fully. So I was like, okay, yeah, that's true. So I was like, all right, I'll do it. I'll put her well, we'll put her third and then and that's what happens.

See, this is what we've kind of talked about, is there is people will argue and we go back and forth on how much editing actually exists to make things look different than they are. I always said, the manipulation or this those that kind of like God scenario that production is looking down from a camera up above saying, no, we're going to move the pufflic puzzle piece here because we think this is how this story could play out. That happens a lot more. Uh, And I actually find

Is it fair?

All those things we could argue and go back and forth on. However, it's the response of the people in the scenario that kind of make or break if their story is going to come out true or not, or if it's going to come out the way they want it to or not. Clayton, you went through this whole process.

You lived it.

We've talked about, you know, mostly with the final three kind of the scenarios that existed, also with Shane a little bit at the beginning when you.

Were in it, was.

There ever a moment that you thought, oh my goodness, this is going to be really bad, like I'm going to watch this back on national television and this is going to be really bad. Or were you in it and you're like, this is a beautiful love story coming true and every like people are going to love to watch it.

Now it flipped when it was okay.

There was drama, but it wasn't anything I felt like I couldn't recover from, or that wasn't going it was going to be overwhelming. But at the point when I after Gabby and Rachel, met my family and I made the decision to pursue Susie even though she was gone at that moment, there was a producer that was off camera and they looked at me and said, if you do this, you will not be liked by at least

My decision, and that's when I knew.

I was like, yeah, this is going to probably be bad, you know, because it was very tense and at that point there was not as much communication amongst me and the producers. It was the last you know, that was what four days left in the season. It was basically like, let's just get to the finish line. I hate you all, you don't like me, Let's.

Just finish this.

But then I was like, Clayton, the danger is now you have pissed them off and you're not on the same team anymore. It feels like, and now they can go edit a season, So now you're at the mercy of whatever they choose to edit and what you've put out there.

But that, yeah, that moment was that's when I knew things were going to go south.

Do you think that the edit could have been romantic?

Well, put it this way. I mean, and this is where again I give them credit.

Had Susie went first in Fantasy Sweets, let's just say I would have chosen her, the show would have been a boring ass show. Instead, what everyone got was the ending that I that was created, which was, like I would say, a very entertaining season and was very talked about.

And yeah I was you know, painted as the villain and intact and all that.

But it made for really interesting television and a lot of people talked about it from a from a standpoint have like show success. I know the show, you know, I was told the producers were all high five and at the after party at the end of it all like we just you know, really put together a spectacle, and they did so, you know, like they did a great job.

And at my expense.

It's like, yeah, I gotta take some accountability. It's like, you I walked on that show, and I was ignorant and was just like, oh, I'm just gonna be me, you know, and and I was moldible and they easily poppeted around at points because I didn't have the confidence and self love to put my foot down. So again, like I take accountability for that. Ultimately, Yeah, there could have been a happy ending. I could have been you know,

You know, holding hands, walking off into.

The sunset and everyone's like, yeah, I don't really love like them as a bacheler, but whatever, they're happy.

It could have been a completely different outcome.

So you mentioned that you didn't really know you from Michelle season, that you were plucked out of obscurity. Do you think that there's sometimes in their head, like I thought, oh, they can be more malleable, there can be more easily manipulated because they didn't get further along the bachelorette process because there was you, there was Grant, and there was Matt James in recent memory, who you were just kind of plucked. You had no experience and you know, so you're just a playtoy to them.

Yeah, I mean I think that was absolutely a part of it.

And their decision making was for one, okay, he looks the part, you know, and primarily they cast a lead of that's usually white and over six foot, so I hit those markers and then it was like, oh but they I mean they psycha evowed me. I mean, they did a full psych eval, very very deep criminal background check.

I mean, they knew me.

Like you said, at one point earlier, better than I likely knew myself.

And so they knew exactly what they were getting. You know.

They're like, we got a guy that looks the part, but we can basically pull him into certain directions and scenarios and it's gonna, you know, if we need to, we can create chaos. And they did, and like that's they I know for a fact, that's half the reason they chose me. It was because they're like, this guy looks strong willed and looks confident and looks the part, but like we can basically hop in his body and control him, and and and.

You know, and I allowed them to.

I mean I I basically didn't stand my ground at points when I could have, because I was fearful of upsetting them, and fearful of losing the role of the bachelor, fearful of you know, yeah, basically being you know, seen as a reject in their eyes. I wanted their approval, like I wanted the girls approval, like I wanted the audience's approval. So you know, I did everything in my power to stay on their good terms, and there are points where I was like, hey, I don't really want to do this, but.

I don't want to piss him off, So you.

Know, you're it's a good point. Well, I have two things say, one as I one hundred percent know or I don't know. I believe strongly they know us better than we know ourselves. I've been in two scenarios behind the scenes in a production room where they have accurately predicted somebody's like big life choices spot on that that person would have never known they were going to choose like two years later, yes, And I was like, oh,

This is very creepy.

This is probably the part that I don't want to think about too much because it gets too Truman Show esque.

It's very well watched that and someone said watch it high and yeah, that's like my one vice is weed. So oh I saw my only advice. But I was like, okay, so I watched it. Oh my gosh. I was like from that point forward, I was like paranoid. I'm like, yeah, freaks out. Am I going to open up my door over here and someone's gonna run by, like damn, he was supposed.

To open something.

Yeah, this is the deep state that everybody seems to be wanting to fight right now. It's the Bachelor World and whatever they know about is there is something weird that they know somehow, some way.

Ah, then you're going down They're going down a path.

But I'm kind of I'm int ai and all that nerd and out and all this weird stuffy Let's listen. That's a conversation another time. But yeah, there's there's there's something something. How did they know that I was going to do that? And yeah, you're you're spot on, man. They can predict stuff because they psychoanalyzed us with some of the best minds in the in the in the business. They had us, you know, basically talk to them every

I had a I had like a little u rolodex of their pictures and they'd have me move the pictures around and it'der. But they gave me a quarter ward too. Yeah, yeah, with the names on it. Clayton, you are one of we have to close here. You were one of four bachelors since my time, no three, So you're one of three that did not ask any advice going into your season.

So I think, what has there been.

Ten nine of you?

So ten nine of them?

Yeah, you are one of three who did not want any of my help, which is fine. So the question is why did you not want maybe my help? But that would make sense if you asked other people for insight, and then I'd be like, that's great. But either you asked nobody or you didn't ask me. Uh, And maybe we could have prepped you bachelors of the past to say, hey, don't be super malleable. Try to stay a foot like a step ahead of them. They're going to do this stuff.

But you did, I mean you did it with me, So did you with anybody? And if not? Why?

No? The only person that I got advice from was Michelle because they brought her on like the first day of the show, which they showed on like a YouTube clip or the channel, but never like I think they'd never put it on like the actual televised show. And she came and the advice I think she gave me was just basically just be open, like or don't they take things too seriously and just understand that. Like you're like, like it's it's you. I can't really give you advice.

Don't do this.

But then it also came into play that I didn't ask other people because I a couple of things. I didn't want to be swayed by somebody. I was like, I want to go into this experience with like no influence because I thought that, like.

The producers who would be influencing you from the start, the only influence you.

Wanted it was from the production influenced me as much as they did subtly right, Like I wasn't aware of it because it was my first I never really watched the show.

I didn't know what it was, but like I didn't know the behind the scenes.

So I was like, I'll be able to, you know, you know, navigate this environment, but I don't want any type of influence. I didn't know that they were going to be stepping in at points which you guys would have told me how to ask. All that being said, I would I'm glad it went the way that it went because it was that was the journey that was meant for me. I am glad, happy with who I

Whatever.

Like if I would have gotten that, then I would have just kept going with my inc my the things that are my weaknesses and my and things that needed improvement. It's never addressed. So instead I had all of my weaknesses and areas improvement put under a microscope and blasted out for the entire universe just to critique me on. And that's where I was like, cool, Okay, I'm I lack emotional intelligence. Okay, well I guess I should go acquire it. So I went and did that, and I

So like, I had no emotional intelligence and I had one girlfriend.

Iired to that show, so like, I was not well versed on how to interact with like women, you know, as much as I wanted to be so like, but none of that would have ever come to light had I, you know, basically walked out of there and had a big old pat on the back and looked like, you know, the hero of the show. No, it's like I needed to be all that stuff to be highlighted, and it was. So I'm glad it went the way that it went.

So I take I take nothing. I just wondered as you as you were talking, I was like, you know, what could have helped you here? I mean it was a nice like Sean low call to say, hey, buddy, like.

How do I do this?

You know, most people don't call me for advice, so that's that's which is funny, But they do call me when things go wrong. That's the funny thing when like it's like when you want to go to talk to somebody about you know, how do I deal with this adversity?

I'm like, I'm your guy.

Yeah, who's your publicist or management company? Give me the name Clayton. We really appreciate you coming on today. Thanks for talking about your time on the show and some of these big scenarios that were hard to break down. Maybe when they're immediate and like right afterwards, you can't just say like, yes, this is where my mind was at, or maybe this is what I didn't like or like, or this is what production was telling me. I think

Wait and see. Hey Clinton, thanks for coming on Infamous.

Thanks Begs, Clinton, See you in Paradise.

Bye.

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