This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast with iHeartRadio.
Hey everyone, welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast. Today we are continuing our countdown to Grant season by interviewing former Bachelor's. Today's Bachelor is Ben Higgins.
Wow.
Wow. We were joking before starting recording that this could be the easiest interview that we've ever done here on the Almost Famous Podcast, or it could be the hardest time. Will tell Ben, are you worried about some of the questions that I might ask? Because you know, I do ask some scary questions to our guests, and today our producers have written questions that I have been curious about, but I wasn't sure I was gonna be brave enough to ask. But since we're both thinking it, I might
have to. And I'm gonna blame them for being the ones that really put it on paper.
Yeah. I haven't seen the rundown. I chose not to look because I just want I want to be interviewed. It's been so long since I've done a deep dive into that season that this is exciting for me.
You don't scare me, so.
I am the least scary person of all time. We all know this everybody.
Knows me, not to some of the past Bachelor's I think exactly scared. Yeah, Ashley, you got me, Like, I don't know about this. No, this will be great. I cannot wait to reminisce. Here's the only thing I want to start with, though, will be Please forgive me if I don't remember. That is such a distant part of my life. Not in terms of and I've said this many times, I'm very grateful for that opportunity. I had met some amazing people, but my life has moved on
so much from then. Not in terms of my disassociation with the show. I want to support the show, just mostly with tons that there will probably be things that I forget and you'll have to maybe remind me, but I'll love to speak into it once you remind me.
So Ben, we'll start off with when did you know you were going to be the Bachelor? And I want you to say dead truth, like I knew that they were gunning for me during Caitlyn season at this point.
Yeah, I'd say the first moment that I realized something was up. So when we were in the house in the mansion, I will say I don't remember many guys I don't really remember anybody there that was looking for becoming the bachelor. I remember some people talking about it. I remember Paradise being brought up, and then I kind of remember those conversations never being that existent in our house. So it never felt like anybody was there pushing to
be the lead. It wasn't until San Antonio that I started with Yeah, I started to feel like I'm being treated a little differently than most here. It was the moment when Sean and I were roommates. Yeah, and Caitlin snuck into our room, and you know, her and Sean had a conversation or whatever they did right next to me in the bathroom, and I was very much not invited to that party. And in the bathroom, yeah, and I left, No, I went to the bathroom.
I went, well, you went to.
The bathroom to give them privacy? How long did you spend in the bathroom?
A long time, most of the evening into the wee mornings, wee hours of the morning.
Do you sleep in the tub?
I sat on the floor. I just I think I fell asleep, like.
I And so that was very early on in the season. And I remember leaving the hotel and not being upset because it was so early on and I really didn't know what I was getting myself into, and I had felt very uncomfortable whole time. I remember going to one of the producers after they had already asked me if Caitlyn came into our room, so I did not out her. I want to be clear, I was not the one to tell anybody that she was there. This is a
secret I kept for multiple days. Three days later and a producer came to me and said, to Kaitlyn's thinking to your room. I said yes. They asked me what happened. I explained, I said, you know, the truth of this is, I think I want to go home, like if I'm not, if I'm just a burden here, then I need to go home because I don't want to just be like another cog in the wheel and it makes it easier for everybody. And I understand where I'm at, in the position I'm in.
I'm just going to go home.
And they said, let's think of let's talk about it. They came back to me that evening and they said, we really want you to stay, and Caitlyn wants to talk to you. So Caitlyn has this like very friendship conversation with me, where she's like.
You know, on camera.
It was on camera. It never got showed because they never really showed any of that. It would have probably ruined the season, right she you know, the producers had asked me to keep it quiet, and so I did. I didn't tell anybody else, really, I don't think. Maybe I told Jared Jard been the only one I would have told. But they she has this like very friendly conversation with me, like a lot can change before the end, and I really want you here, your place of fun
and comfort and all those things. And I left the conversation. I said, if you know what, I'll stay, Like why not? This will be fun. I was convinced this could be a good experience. I didn't really know what that was at the time, but it was, you know, a seed in my mind that the show had talked to her and been like, hey, you can't let this guy go right now, like you can't let him go home yet, we need him here a little longer. Then I get
eliminated from the show. We're in Dublin and I'm sitting in my hotel room with my producer at the time, Megan and the executive produce her at the show back then comes in and she sits with me, and she's asking me how I'm doing, and she's talking to me about everything and how, you know, how the experience was, and at the end of that conversation goes, how would you like to be the Bachelor? I was like, this seems very soon. I feel like I'm still getting tricked.
I feel like I'm still in this world.
And this might be the earliest they've ever asked somebody that. Seriously.
Yeah, so I you know, we kind of that conversation came and went, and I went back home, and then I started hearing rumors of other guys getting you know, the interviews, and there's rumors of other guys that were going to be chosen. And it wasn't until a few months before the show that they called me and they actually asked officially. But there was a good few months in between the airing of the show and when they asked that I was kind of hesitant or thinking, no,
this isn't for me. I mean, I went back to work, I was kind of getting back into a rhythm.
So it was a while.
But now looking back, I should have been smart enough to be like they they treated me differently.
They certainly did on your Night one totally honest. Who was your top three coming out of the limo?
It's a good question. I mean, I think Night one is really such a blur for any bachelor or bachelor.
It happened so fast, But I remember being it was beca tilly for sure, because Becka and I had talked before the season started, and I had said, Hey, I'm going to be the Bachelor. If you're interesting, coming on, come on, And she did and she was great, and I was so excited that she took that risk to come back a second time.
Olivia obviously got.
The final first first impression.
Yeah, and then Jen Salviana, So like, those were the three that I remember on Night one just being super like they stood out. But even then, it's it's so hard to tell. You have like five minute interactions.
With each mm hmm. So with Becca, what was the extent of your communication before the show?
We she had I think either we had ran into each other somewhere and we were mostly in a very like friendly like texting place, fretty friendly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and just kind of conversing back and forth talking about the show, joking back and forth with each other. It wasn't super extensive, so there wasn't this everyday type of thing. It was once a week, you know, once every couple weeks. It was Hey, how's this going for you? Kind of stuff?
And I think once I was announced as the bachelor, that became like a less of a friendly thing and more of a hey, what Like what should I do? Was the question, and I said, you should come on if that's something you're interested in doing. During that conversation too, because we were able to talk before the show, I had told her, and this will be funny later on, not funny, it's funny now that because obviously we're great friends.
I had told her, Hey, because if you do come on and you risk this situation, I will never make you be eliminated in an unfair way, like at a rose ceremony, like I will always do it when I want to explain everything.
Okay, did you promise her a certain point like I'm not going to eliminate you in the first couple of weeks.
No goodness, No, I never said that. No, there was never that. It was just hey, when you if you do get eliminated, I will always do it like in a better way than how everybody else is. Because for me, and I think for her, she was in a different world. Right, she'd come off of the last season. She was risking it again coming on this season. Her family, right was going to be involved again. There were so many things,
and so that was my hope. Now I didn't stick to my promise, and she got really mad about it.
We're in worsea, Indiana.
She's still there, and at that point I knew that we weren't going to, you know, be it there at the end. But Becca was always kind of in the top because she's such a joy to be around, such a joyful human.
She's so fun.
She got the process, and the girls loved her right like her and Jojo were best friends. They still are, And so it was like such a cool I felt like maybe.
I was oblivious.
I felt like it was such a cool last you know, eight people, because everybody's having so much fun. We're figuring this thing out, traveling the world bow and warsaw, and I kind of come to this realization, Oh my gosh, next week is hometowns. Yeah, I don't want to put her family through this again. I don't want to put her through this again if I know, this isn't going to be the one at the end, even though she could, you know, be there. And and so I'm like coming
to this realization right before the Rose ceremony. And so I eliminate Becka in Warsaw and we go and I specifically said that guy, want to walk you out? And she said yes, and we sit down the bench in Warsaw and she goes, you promised you wouldn't do this to me, and I was like, I know, and I'm sorry.
I don't know what else to.
Do because was she the only one eliminated at that Rose ceremony because you had a two on one that week? Did you have a two on one? No, you didn't have a two on one? So then was she the only one eliminated at the Rose ceremony so that you couldn't.
Do it because the twins went home after visiting my parents' house?
Yeah, exactly, That's what I remembered. Yeah, yeah, so remember somebody got eliminated in another way.
Yeah.
So it was like a very brutal mon mo from me because and my hope was that, you know, Becca and I would always stay connected and we have she's one of the closest people to me on the show still. But at first I think she was really upset, Like I think she was really mad that I didn't give her the respect that I promised I would give her,
and I think that was a fair thing. And it was one of those moments that you're sitting there and you're like, I don't know what I can do, Like, there's nothing I can do about this other than you have every right to get so mad at me right now.
We had the most fun week after you eliminated her. She was like, I don't, like, I don't feel like going home yet. So she came over. She slept over at my apartment for three days and we basically took We did take out for every meal, and we watched Gray's Anatomy all day long. It was so fun. No, not at all. No, she didn't give me much details, you know, but she's just like bombed.
But I was hoping you'd be like, yeah, she was like just ripping you a new one.
No, okay, So that means that you were more into Becca than you were into say, like Amanda and Kayla.
I don't know if that is a fair statement. I think.
At that point, so many of them kind of existed within the same.
Sphere, like they were all like on the same level. And then there was Lauren and Jojo.
Yeah, I'd say that would be the fair statement my concern with Amanda m Again, I feel very lucky because if you look at the list of people that were on that season, you're like, this was the most incredible group of all time. And I would stick to that and I would scream it from the mountaintops and everybody's happy and healthy and doing their thing today. I I didn't know about Amanda because it wasn't at that level right, Like she wasn't going to be there at the end.
That was very obvious to me at that point.
And she had two kids, Yeah, And I had said, I don't want to go to her hometown because you're bringing kids into this. That feels weird, that feels messy, And the show was like, yeah, but kind of what they do with me. I think they really wanted Amanda to be the lead of this next season. I thought that it made sense to me. It would have been an amazing lead.
They saw her as like an Emily Maynard part two.
Yeah, and I think for me it made sense, and I didn't want to take that away from her. Now, looking back, I don't think it would have mattered if she went home in the top five or the top four or whatever that was. But I, in my naive mind, and I'm trying to go back to this time, thought I'm doing the right thing by giving her the opportunity to become the next season's lead, by going to her hometown.
Well, I still think Amanda would say thank you. I think she'd be glad that that happened. And I don't think that kids in chart thinking it was anything other than cool.
I don't think they even probably remember it. But I'm going back to a place where at the time, it is your world, right, So you don't know the outcomes or the results from any of these decisions, and so for me, you're trying to weigh all those options, and you're like, Okay, if I was, since I am the one making the decisions here, this does feel like the right decision to do.
So.
But it wasn't that I was uninterested. I was very excited about it.
It just wasn't.
I just knew where the outcome was going to be. And so we went back to her hometown with her kids. I had asked the show to be respectful of that, given what I knew was going to be happening. And everything went awesome. I had a blast. Her kids are great, family's awesome, Amanda's great. And then I think, you know, the big moment for me, the moment where I got the maddest I ever was on the show was when they asked me to tuck the kids in at night.
Cool. I remember this now in the.
F Yeah, and I was like, no, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it.
But then you're sitting so you have to like, this will get us a little bit of a scope to like the decisions you have to make as the lead.
You're in the family room with the whole family.
They go, Hey, the kids are upstairs, are going to bed, Ben, you want to go up there? And you're sitting there, like, I got two options, say no and then bring up a whole array of questions from everybody sitting in the room, or say yes and just do it and hope for the best. And so I was like, all right, let's go because I didn't want I felt like if I said no, everybody would be questioning that Amanda would read through the lines there this could blow up in my face.
So I went upstairs and then that's when I went out to the van and just blew a gasket.
What'd you say to them?
A lot of things I.
Should have said, honestly, I think mostly you know, you commit, like you've asked me to trust you all, and these are the moments why I don't. You've put me in a situation that can affect others when I've tried so hard to not do that. I think I was in the right. I think the show thought I was in the right. I think every producer there was like, I get it, this sucks, but like it's good TV and they'll be all right. Those kids will recover.
So the other time you blew a gasket with the show was when you were running for office in Colorado Congress the House, and then they told you, after already being involved in running, that you had to stop. Can you tell us this story?
Yeah?
So, I mean there's a long backstory to that. So I get off the show, and I had always talked and I still to this day, have an interest in getting involved in my community in some way. So I thought it'd be fun to be on a city council. I always thought it would be fun to be in some situation where I was in the know. It's something I desire and making decisions that feel logical and rational
on behalf of the community around me. To what scale, to what degree, I don't really know, but it was always something that intrigued me, and I had brought this up when we were filming the show, probably with some producers over dinner. So I get off the show and right away they have this idea, what if we did kind of a docuseries show about you running for office, and we helped support the whole thing financially, and we filmed the whole.
Thing, and then maybe one day you're in office.
And at the time, because I was twenty six with no money, I thought, this is an incredible opportunity. If I'm going to be able to run for office and have somebody support it at the scale that they could, then I'm going to say yes. And so I said yes and signed a contract for a show. That's an
important note. Well, I don't know necessarily the behind the scenes of what happened, but I went through the whole process, got my name on the ballot, advocated for myself around my community, had so many five o'clock in the morning breakfasts, and then filmed the show of all this stuff, and I got my name on the ballot and the night of my celebration party for doing that, which is a
big accomplishment. They call and they say, you need to pull out the race because and here's their reasoning, and and here's legally what I can say.
But what is true.
Is they said they found out recently from some of their attorneys that when you run a political campaign on TV, you have to show whoever the person's running against, equal amounts, which is a true thing. And I don't know if this was just them not knowing and figuring out at the last moment with wild timing, or if this was strategic in whatever way, or if they said, hey, this isn't going to be a great look, don't I don't know. I have no idea what the situation necessarily behind the
scenes was. But that's what I was told, and I had to.
And you flipped out. When do you flip out?
I flipped out when, well, right there, because this is my community around me, right these are the like. At this point, I was still recently off the show, so this had gotten national coverage that I was running. I had convinced everybody in the community that this wasn't some setup for more attention, and so me backing out makes everything that I said and tried to claim within the people in my neighborhood go, no, this is exactly what it was. It was a seat and it leaves the
seat wide open. Yeah, And so there was a lot of there was a lot of i'd say pain right after me as the bachelor. That happened because the people around me in my community very much lost trust in me, and they should have. They should have. I mean, everything I claimed ended up being false. That I was doing it for X y reasons and that I wanted to be involved, and I thought, I, you know, this was a good opportunity to do it, And so I was
really mad. I was really mad that I was put in a position where so many around me would lose trust. And then long term I got even madder when they're like, yeah, but you still got to do a show.
Yeah, you're like, oh, I thought my show was going to be about this, not about planning a wedding primarily.
Yeah.
Yeah, to somebody who probably doesn't really want to marry me.
Yeah, somebody's not we're not talking. No, we still were. That was that was not quite yet. But the show I definitely knew was not going to be a healthy strategy for the future. And so but I was I had signed a contract and you know, said no to other opportunities because that show was under contract, and it was not necessarily something that I was excited about doing, and it was definitely not something that I had planned on.
Ever wanting to do is to give that kind of scope into a life that already felt chaotic.
Okay, we're going to go back to the show for a second, and then we'll go back to Happily ever After if you don't mind. So back to the Bachelor, where you are now down to your top three and you're going to fantasy suitet you have Jojo, Lauren, and Kayla. This is a question that the producers have written down that I didn't I don't know that it's true.
You could ask anything, Ashley. You don't have to be hesitant here.
I'm so hesitant. The producers of our show seem to think that you didn't sleep with these girls in the fantasy suite and I do not believe that is true.
Why do they think that? You think.
Because you because you didn't have sex with Chess. I guess before you guys got married. I'm pretty sure you slept with all these girls in the fantasy suite except for Kayla, who I don't think got to a fantasy suite.
Why do you think all of that? Where are you getting that from?
Where am I getting that from? Because didn't you eliminate her before the Fantasy suite part huh of the show? Oh? Oh she did go to the fantasy suite? Yeah, okay, So I actually think you slept with all of them.
That is not a true statement, Okay, And that's why I'll leave that question.
So I think there's two out of the three, and we'll have to figure out which.
Why do you think that?
Oh it could have been? What? I just why you're gonna you're flipping the awkwardness onto me? You asked, I think you definitely did it with Jojo.
You have no basis for that, I have no idea.
I'm going off your guts. Yeah, so you'd rather be float around rumors than you just tell us?
Yeah I would, okay.
Already, So it really comes down to Jojo and Lauren in the end, and I you know, you were, of course the famous person who said I love you to two people first. As we establish almost every week here on the Almost Inness podcast, it's just not a big deal anymore. Do you did you really truly not know who you're gonna pick that week? No?
I didn't.
I really didn't, oh, which is so weird to say, and then be so confident in the decision at the end end as I was.
Yeah, I think.
There was this storyline going on at the time that was never shown that was such so vital in my decision making. And actually I would love to talk to producer and actually know if it was actually happening.
No, I know it was, Well, can you can you tell us?
Yeah, I'll tell you. I don't think it would be. I don't think it.
It doesn't seem Yeah.
You know, hometowns every week at the end of it are so vital in this process. Hometowns were extremely important to me, and I had the experience and I think you saw it where you know, JoJo's family was very not in favor of this process, which is wild because she came to bachelorette and I get it.
Maybe they just didn't like me. That's fine.
There's no such thing as nobody liking then, especially if you're going to be a potential boyfriend like you are every year, Like I don't trust, but every parent wants Ben Higgins to come home.
Her brother's muscles are really big, and I think they're questioning me. They're like, do you work out? Because it doesn't look like it.
They they were hard, They were tough, and they should be maybe they I think they probably were, you know, fueled before I walked in to be tough. But they were tough, and it was awkward and it was weird, and it was by far the most awkward hometown I had.
Yeah, and I walked out of it.
Being like, I can't I can't even consider what this would look like. And so that played a huge role in my decision making towards the end.
Right.
The family's acceptance or at least desire to like give this a chance was very important to me.
So you didn't think it was maybe them putting on an act for TV or being too influenced by producers.
I should have, Yeah, I don't think I did. But we get to Jamaica. We're there for two weeks and I get this call that says that her brother, oldest brother is coming down to Jamaica to talk to me because he feels bad about how everything went down. And then it like he never Like fully, I think he did show up for a second, but it was never. It was like we weren't communica. Like it was like he wasn't there to apologize or walk me through what
happened at hometowns. It was like he was there to continue on the conversation we had back there.
So it like really made me.
Confident and and I don't really know what was happening during that, but he was like there, and I thought he was there to like clear the water, which would have been awesome, but he it was instead it was there to like double down, I think.
And I walked out of that.
Being very confident in my at least where my thought on where the family stood. And that really kind of that got towards the last week and it really was kind of the deciding factor for me to say, Okay, either I walk out of this saying saying with the white flag, saying I can't make a decision, or I say, hey, I'll go with the you know, with the place that feels like it's the right thing, and I think the show.
I don't know, but I think the show had their ideas.
Too for how this should play out, and I think they were trying really hard to make that play out the way they did.
Are you saying that they really wanted Jojo to be the bachelorette?
I say that that's my opinion obviously, But then I know after the show was.
Done, airing Kayla was like filming.
Neal to be the best threat, and so I don't know if they were that convinced. Honestly, I look at that last two weeks and there's still a out of confusion on how it all played out the way it did. I've never questioned the decision I made, though, So that's one thing. I think we were talking about that with one of the bachelors that we were interviewing leading up to this. When the decision was made, that I never will look back and be and had the what if it was it was how it was supposed.
To play out.
Obviously, look at my life now, I was always very confident in whatever path was moving forward. But I am confused about that kind of last week on how that all went down the way.
It did, But Lauren was pretty convinced that you were having what ifs Am I wrong?
Oh? I mean I think that's just natural.
Yes, I mean I think is always the comparison, and then every interview you do post show, you know, the questions are brought up comparing the two, and so I think having those what if ideas are natural in that moment, especially coming off of it and watching it and seeing how conflicted I really was.
Yeah, there's a lot of.
Interesting like takes from that because at the time I felt like this is the biggest hardest decision I'd ever made. It should have never I don't think it should ever be that hard, like when you know you know right, so you.
Should have known in that moment that neither of them was going to be your girl.
I think that's the only what if I've ever had, is like why did I go through with any of it? And not because it wasn't great and real and fun and like excited, but it was like it wasn't right, It wasn't the right thing. And so that's the only question I now have today is was I confused?
Maybe?
But then you look at it and you're like, no, it makes it for me. It does make sense on how I got to that point, And that's why I would never give any lead any critical opinion when they are at the end, like tossed in emotion.
So, Ben, when did you know it wasn't gonna work out with Lauren the first mode? Okay, maybe not when you first, when you definitely knew, But when did you start being like oh no, oh no, oh no, I mean, was it as early as your first happy couple?
Oh?
Goodness, no, okay, I mean I think I think then it's you kind of toss it up to This is a strange environment. I don't want to say which you know, lead, I've talked to about this recently, but happy couples, even for the happiest of couples, are really hard because the show's airing, you're doing interviews, the lead is typically getting risked away to go on TV somewhere, while the other person just kind of sits there and wait, I think you toss up those that season of life too. It is,
it's not natural. It's difficult, and unless the the two of you have a clear understanding, I think most people within that season, even for the Golden Show, are probably having a hard time because there's a lot of conversations you shouldn't be having with somebody you know that you're you're with, like yeah, sorry about that. You had to watch it last night and then get reminded of it in two days.
Yeah it No, it wasn't then.
I'd say, the first time I really thought started thinking that and on that path was during Happily ever After. Was it felt like at some point, and I think it kind of happened slowly, was like we were work colleagues, Like we were just filming a show and you know, doing it and then going back and I think at that point it felt like, this isn't a team atmosphere. This isn't a like this should be more fun, It should be a lot easier. We shouldn't be knocking heads
so much during this process. We should both be happier, right, Like you should both be in a happier place. This should be a great opportunity, you know. And I was at the time not wanting to do that show, but also thankful for the opportunity to be filming a show and making an income, and that people were at least a little bit interested in life, in our life and it's I think it was a slow fade to a place where we were just colleagues, like there was no there was no partnership.
I'm gonna end with something kind of serious, So sorry, because we talk about fun, fluffy stuff all the time, and we will talk about you know, your life with just and your baby legit within the next couple of weeks here, So we'll save baby talk for that podcast when it comes more download. Yes, we had a conversation, Yes, exactly. We had a conversation with Crystals this week about drinking. And you have been open, especially in your book, about
your addictions to painkillers. How was going through the Bachelor having been a former addict just like such an emotional process?
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think maybe the benefit I had was because I was no longer addicted at that time. I had done some work on re assimilating myself with
really hard emotions. Because for me, I think a lot of my addiction came from a numbing process of not wanting to confront certain behaviors, life choices, the place I was at in life and security, all those things, and so I was numbing those that pain through addiction, and so I had you know, I'd been clean for a few years going into that show, and I feel like I was at least somewhat prep because I was very comfortable confronting really hard things that I was dealing with.
I also had a very strict drink limit for myself on the show when I was the lead, I didn't There was only one moment that I let loose, and that was in the Bahamas on like a boat. And if you get me on any boat, like on what and loose like I just love the water. You know, I look back, I wish I would have let loose a little more. I had a little more fun with it.
You know, you can look back and think that. But I had a very strict limit for myself because I didn't want to go through this process having that like social anxiety the next morning when you're like why did.
I say what I said? Why did I do what I do? Did?
I was very nervous about how to communicate with every woman because it might be the last thing you really get to say to them before they're gone. And I just really was. I remember going into the show with this. Everybody has their own very well intentioned thoughts going into the show. Some must some might be these women are lucky.
Mine maybe was.
Our mine was how crazy is it that thirty people are giving up this much of their life to be here for as long as they're going to be here. And I think on my speech on the first night that I wrote, I just and I meant it, and I still mean it to this day, and I still hope it's the case to this day, because I am still is. I was just hopeful that every person would leave being I'm glad, I say, thinking I'm glad I did it.
I didn't know what that would look like.
I think everybody feels that way.
I hope, so.
I think some people probably have some at men and anger, and especially with the breakup. I think you know, there were sides chosen based on friendship and kind of loyalty, and that's fine. But I was just hoping that every person left and was like, I'm glad he did it for whatever reason that may be.
Now night ones are a little harder to.
Exients that they're glad, they get it, But if you're there for a few weeks, I was hoping you'd at least look back and was like that was that was a cool experience, and it was a great opportunity.
Yeah.
So, oh so back to your question, and so it wasn't that hard for me. I really don't remember many moments where I was like I need to numb anything. If anything, I kind of went with the strategy of I need to lean in to whatever it is I'm experiencing.
All right, I totally that's a that's a great response. My final question for you is how it felt to be called the perfect Ben. I know that that was heavy on you. Yeah, and like, looking back, do you still feel like cringe about that label?
Yeah? Yeah, it doesn't fit and.
It does fit though, like do you get in do you do you still feel weird the fact that you are definitely look back upon as one of the favorite bachelors, as one of the ones that did it right?
No, I actually like when you say that, like that feels very nice to hear.
I hope, I guess.
I hope in my life when I make big decisions that people see it and say, hey, you did the best you could and that you know you you did it in a way that maybe was relatable, that showed your faith even though it wasn't talked about a lot or shown a lot, But that like we could we could tell that you had some type of faith and respect that maybe was different than others. You had a really relatability because you were open, and other people watched
it and felt less alone. You were human, So you struggled a lot through it, and it was messy and it wasn't perfect. I guess when I hear that, that's what my mind goes to. And I'm proud of that, and I'm thankful that in one of the moments when I was young, naive, unprepared, that I have a lot of pride in myself that in that, in one of the what should have been the most confusing, hardest things I've ever done, I stepped up and I did it in a way that I'm proud of and that other
people can be proud of. Yeah, so no, I take that as a coment.
The perfect beIN thing was. It was weird.
There's a long story to it, but we've talked about it many times. You know, I had this parasite. I was sick the whole show and like couldn't get off the toilet, and I felt terrible because at some point the women in the house picked up on it.
They kind of had because I was just like so sick.
Yeah, wouldn't you rather just tell them?
Yeah? Yeah, And there's a comfort, and there's a there's a weirdness when you're like, hey, yeah, you're committing time to date me.
I already feel weird about that part.
And also like I've got diarrhea, so like, yeah, this is cool, Like I'm feeling really good about myself right now. And so I was super sick and we're in the Bahamas and you know this has been brought up, but it just kind of makes everything go full circle. And then all the women get sick because of uh, some women in the ocean where there's like the pigs pigs, and all those women on that date got super sick and so they're you know, on the toilet all the time.
So then we have this really fun, funny moment in the Bahamas that everybody can relate with because everybody in that room is sick. I'm literally laying on the bed in this like resort that we're in, in my underwear with a fan blowing on me, with Chris Harry and watching a football game next to me in a chair being like, dude, are you good? Like what do we gotta do here, and I'm like, we got to cancel everything.
He's like, we can't cancel everything. I'm like, all right, He's like, we can do a Row ceremony right now. Just say you know what you want to do, walk out there. It takes you ten minutes. We're gonna run through it. We'll get over it.
And I was like three minutes, my ass, Yeah.
I never did.
And so we come to that, and then we end up going, you know, to Jamaica, and so I'm coming off of this experience where I'm feeling pretty down. Everybody's kind of feeling like, not great about themselves. And the producers, the three head producers the show had moved into my house in Jamaica with me.
That sounds like a blast, knowing who those were at the time.
Yeah, we had a lot of fun. We had great dinners, we had great nights together. It was actually really like special some of my favorite nights. And one night they go, we got a surprise for you, and we walk up in the living room in this house and we sit down and they air the promo to the season because it had just started coming out, and I watch it and I'm like, it's so excited, and then at the end they go the perfect Ben and I remember in that moment just being like, I wasn't mad, I ain't yell.
I mean, I don't even know if I said anything to them. I just remember sitting there and I made a joke that said, well, you just set me up for failure. And that was because that was the last thing with all those things I had just said on my intention and what I'm proud of about the show, and I'm proud of what I did during the show, you know, and it was messy. I'm sure it wasn't perfect,
and that was the point is it wasn't perfect. And I think at that moment I realized that I either was going had to be perfect or I was going to have to live by a perfect standard, which is not me. And that was frustrating to me. I would much rather than say something and anything else. I guess it was a it was a fine tagline. I get why they did it. It just I felt like it set me up for failure. It set me up to be hated.
It was right, you were never hated. It was as cute and clever and guess what, nobody remembers it, but you and I because this is what we do for a living and it was about you. All right. Well, thank you so much. Ben. This was not the hardest interview I've ever done, but also not the easiest somewhere in the middle. So thank you for being you and thanks for taking this trip down memory lane.
Yeah, it's this is the countdown. We're interviewing bachelor's today. I just happened to be the one leading up to Grant season of The Bachelor, which airs January twenty seventh. We're gonna have a lot more and many cool interviews with past bachelors as we continue. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about this. It's been a long time and as much as we get to talk to everybody else, I don't reminisce on that season of life very often.
And this was fun.
Wait, Ben, I forgot to ask the question that I've been dying to ask you. I wanted to wait to the end.
Okay.
We asked Chrys Sols this week if you had to reorder your season, would you and could you? And Ben? Can you just know you're going to try to work your way around this. Just give us two people that you would have moved around.
It's a good that's a good question, and I will do that for you. I I kind of already mentioned, you know, the Becca Tilly Amanda stan Thing. Yeah, so that would have been one change I would have made. But I still am confident in my decision not to go to Beca's hometown. So I would have replaced both of them with somebody.
Oh really, who would it be?
I think jin Okay, Yeah, I think, uh that kind of got a weird, had a weird ending.
Towards the end, and.
I and I actually wish I kind of I mean this Lauren Himel, who like came and went from the show, Like, I don't even know if anybody you.
Had for Lauren.
Yeah, I had a lot of Lawrence.
I think she got there on the deal because we didn't get a lot of time, and then she kind of went home. And that's kind of how the process works, I think, is you have these people you look back on you like they were really fun, interesting people and you just didn't get any time because of how the structure of the show worked. But I would say that's what I would have done. That would have been my replacement.
The top three would have stayed the same. But I think I would have not gone to Becka's hometown because I want to want to put her family through it. I would have gone to Amando's because that ended up getting me angry and I don't like being mad, and I would have probably, you know, kept gin a little longer into that spot.
What about Olivia.
Olivia is fantastic and I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to speak about Olivia. She got a really raw into the deal in the show. She was like the villain on a season that the villains didn't exist, and that just is awful for her because she doesn't deserve it. Didn't deserve it. She was great, but at that point it's so hard for me because at that point I was so convinced that like she wasn't it, that like
it was time to go home. And the longer we kept going, I think the more she was getting confident that.
Like this is this is it. So I think that was the right decision.
Then I just, uh, if I have one regret from the show, it's that I didn't stand up for Olivia sooner out loud and say like, hey, why are we all like, you know, bashing this because she's fantastic. She had no like, she did nothing wrong other than just be really confident in something that you know, maybe that's the worst thing, is to have confidence in something you should have confidence over. And I just didn't and I stayed quiet, and I feel terrible for it. I don't
know why I did. Maybe I didn't know how much it was affecting her. I thought, you know, I thought most people would come and go from the show and be a k but she got the wrong to the deal. However, I think she's doing great now and that's exciting. But can you imagine being the villain on a season where everybody was awesome?
Like that's so stupid.
They were was like, what are your complaints about her?
She chews weird, Like can.
You imagine her being a villain on any other season? Like it doesn't exist. She's like God, she thrives, but because everybody was so awesome, she got you know, blasted, and that was that's just unfair, Like that that's a bad it's a bad at it.
Yeah, all right, now we're gonna sign off. Thank you, Ben Tutulu. Till next time I've been Ashley and I've
Been Ben, We'll talk to You, followed the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.