Zootopia with Matthew Mixon

the beck Dold Cast on from now on. Just depend with how much I had genuine questions about a lot of things in this movie. One of the lower stakes things was the pen. I was like, how much storage is on that thing? Is there an SD card? I think it's. I think it's we gotta we gotta go to I. I don't want to go to zo Topia. I really don't. Um, well, I'll still go. I gotta be honest, you go, what would you do? Um, we'll

get to that. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point. But Jamie, I don't remember what that is. Well, I can tell you what it is if you want, Okay, I will. The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test.

Many per mutations of this test. Here's the one we use. We require that two characters with names of a marginalized gender speak to each other about something other than a man for two lines of dialogue minimum, and the it has to have some meaning to it. It's got to have some heft. I like that. Nothink I've ever said. I don't find myself saying heffed out loud a lot. But and for anyone was to the show for the first time, being like, is that all you're going to

talk about on the show? No? And in fact, I'll say that this movie does pass um. It's not really it's not as maybe not as much as a show, but it does. You know, we'll talk about it. Something that has been happening to me for the past I don't know, one to two years of this podcast is I forget to pay attention very I mean, it's and you're very on top. You're great at your job. Thank you. But that is the one thing you good is the name of this show. We've transcended so far beyond the

very basic low bar that is the Bechdel test. Yeah, our our third eyes are open, right, and I just where is this? Uh? Genuinely I think they're coming up on three hunt are definitely with our Matreon episodes, we've covered around three D and fifty movies. Yeah, let me consult the Wikipedia. Also shout out to the mysterious benefactor who's been taking care of the Wikipedia page for years now. We don't know who you are, but boy, do you put me on blast in the footnotes sometimes? Holyishh it

I never I forget to check. Two hundred seventy seven episodes out of today have been released on the maid feed on the Mad Yeah, I've been doing this for many moons. Oh my goodness. Well let's get our guests in the mix, shall we. He's a writer and director and that's our friend Matt Mixon. Thanks for having me, thanks for coming on, thank you for and thank you for bringing us a real pickle of a waiting And

why did we do this one? Again? Was this on the list on your list, but this but my I made my list based off of the frequently requested yeah backtel cast list right correct. We've gotten a lot of requests for this movie over the years, and I once again, as with many of our popular requests, I'm like, really, everyone, are we okay? Um? But we're We're curious, Matt, what is your history? It was, oh yeah, the movies Utopia. He came out in the greatest year of all time? Um, Matt,

what's your history with this movie? I watched this movie on the day of a funeral of like a really close loved one past and I was in Wisconsin and it was freezing, and I was with my mom and my sister and we popped it on and I remember really enjoying it. It was my number fourteen movie often. I retroactively popped it on having seen it in January. Do you do yearly rankings? Yeah? I do him. Um, I keep it running ranking on letterbox now. But also have a movie journal so I can always know the

day and like, who I saw this? That's so nice. I should be more diligent about logging my movie activity. It's just like a it's like a life journal. You can just look back and remember. You'll just see a weird name, be like who Funks? Did I see that with? Like or you know, yeah, it's just really it's a nice way to remember. Yeah, I Maggie may Fish shout out to someone who's wedding we just attended. UM makes

movie journals. I think we will drop the link in there because I because I got one and I have yet to use it because I have a fundamental resistance to remember things that happened to me. UM, and that's a therapy problem. So, um, Jamie, what's your history and relationship with Zootopia? Nothing. I had not seen this movie, and it was what a journey because I feel like maybe if I saw this at the beginning of twenty sixteen when it came out, I probably would have felt

different just because but I don't know. I mean, I yeah, I hadn't seen it. I didn't really know what it was about, and I didn't like it. It's fucking it's such a bad movie. Okay, I'm glad that the Tension has been released, because I fucking hated every second of this movie. It was like kind of vile and it was like, I don't think that there were like poor intentions behind this movie, but like the just every bad choice like it was. I was blown away by how

much I disliked it. I think people requested this movie originally because they liked it. Yeah, but it's about girl boss Cop Solves, who causes racism and then she fixes it, but also she This movie truly blew my mind for like how many very at least very obvious, uh flights of logic that it just barrels through. Um. So yeah, I'm I came to this movie with fresh eyes, and boy,

oh boy, I hated it. You remember liking it when you first saw it as well, which was in theaters, and when did it come out, like March of and I remember having a good time, But that was also the year that Mo Wanna came out, and I remember being furious that this movie, Zutopia won the Academy Award for Best Animated Feature the Academy Award over mo Wanna. Yes, And I was absolutely furious because I was like, yeah, Zutopia was fun, but Mohanna is a far superior film.

And the gap now between the quality of those two movies, because at the time I was like, oh yeah, Zutopia is only slightly not as good, But now I'm like Zootopia's socks and Mohanna is still perfect, so I think it is. Really, I mean, it's an interesting example of like how much public thinking has changed in the last six years alone. It came out six like less than six years ago, and I truly was shocked at how poorly it's aged. Like just, yeah, there's there's so much

to talk about. We're not like coming into I Sometimes I feel like we come into a movie like this movie, Like if you liked the movie when it came out, I'm sure I would. Like if I had seen it in theaters, I'm sure I would. I would have enjoyed it. And like, if you still like it, that's also fine. But then listen to us during the episode. Yeah, should

we just get into it? I guess so, yeah, and Matt feel free to jump in during the recap, we go there's so much there's so many things that I'm going to want to be like but wait, if that's true, how could that be true? Okay? How did she puts her phone in a plastic ziploc baggy to like when they flushed themselves down the toilet? But why doesn't she

do that for her little pen. That's the first thing you're taking only because we were talking about that's the my only gripe with the film end of episode everything else, the message that positive. I think it made a ton of sense. This uh well, kind of say again before we start shooting all of this movie. I enjoyed it when I saw it. Yeah, a lot has changed in four or five years. So whatever, let's have a good time here. But you know, just I it was my

number fourteen of the year. I mean that's crazy, that's wild. I mean it's like, yeah, so so again it's like as always on the back to cast, never feel bad for loving him, unless I mean there's a few where it's like you should feel bad. This is not one of them, right. But also, you know, if we can bring maybe a few red flags to your attention, we would like to do that. That's our job. Okay. So Zootopia takes place in an advanced animal society where predator

animals and prey animals coexist in harmony. Big cats can be accountants, sheep can be astronauts. Anyone can be anything, though it wasn't always that way in this world, predators used to eat prey, just like in our world. Uh but again, huge problems, enough for fun, but the animals have evolved beyond that. So we meet Judy Hopps. She's a young rabbit who wants to be a police officer for the city of Zutopia number two, also voiced by um mrs. He's just not that into you herself A

good one. I hadn't heard of this person. Oh really she's I'm sure she's in other things, and but I know her as the person who really was not fun to watch in a movie that wasn't fun to watch. He's just not that into you. Sure, wow, Okay, So she wants to be a cop when she grows up, something that her carrot farmer parents try to discourage her from doing, saying that there's never been a bunny cop before. That's again, it's like it's so at first, then the

parents are like, don't be a cop. I was like, all right, I'm listening, and they're like, because bunny a cop, it wouldn't have I was like, oh god, okay, we missed it. And then it's like, oh, not wanting a bunny to be a cop is prejudice and misogyny. It's right. The muddled allegory is really muddled, and the movie is confused anyway. Okay, So her parents are like, don't be

a cop and then also a bully. This fox named Gideon also tells her that she'll never be anything more than a week carrot farming little bunny and then he scratches her face. So now she has all this fox related trauma. Cut to fifteen years later, Judy is now attending Zutopia Police Academy. She struggles at first, but learns to play to her strengths and she starts to excel

at the academy. This whole scene was really giving me the worst possible version of that sequence from Mulan, Oh, where Mulan becomes a really amazing soldier, except this is her book coming a semi competent cop, and it's like she keeps hearing the like you'll never be a cop, and it's like sometimes it's like listen to the voices in your head. I mean, there's nothing wrong with giving up. Yes, Okay.

So then at her graduation from the academy, the mayor of Zutopia, a lion named lion Heart, while also created and his assistant mayor, a sheep named Yes literally Jenny Yes a k a. Also Bell Weather. They recognize Judy's accomplishments. She's the valedictorian of her class and she's the first rabbit to become a police officer in Zootopia. So Jody

is about to ship off to Utopia. Her parents tell her to be careful in the big city, to be aware of predator animals like bears and wolves and especially foxes. Then they give her some fox repellent spray. Judy then gets assigned to Precinct one of Utopia. It's the city center, though there are like a dozen different ecosystems in a city like Tundra town Sahara Square, and Rainforest District Wow. So on her first day on the job, Judy learns

about fourteen different missing animal cases. They are all predators who have gone missing um, but she doesn't get assigned to work on any of those. Chief Bogo, voiced by Idrisalba, assigns her parking duty, and while she's doing that, she sees a fox who seems to be up to no good, but then it turns out he's just It's Jason Bateman and he's just trying to buy his son a popsicle from an elephant who is prejudice against foxes. But then it turns out he is up to no good. His

name is Nick Wild. By the way, this is like the first of many examples in this movie where a prejudice is referenced, but then canonically in the world, it's like, and she was right, Like, you're just like right, what is the point? What is the function of that? I will say that There's all these like little moments towards the beginning of the movie when Judy is like, I

want to be a girl boss cop. But then she's like, I guess I'll take out all my frustration about not being able to be a real cop, which again is like that's loaded into like issuing petty parking tickets to the working class and what if I did that? It's okay, right? Or are we are we jumping in to talk about it? Or do you want to finish your thing because I got thoughts. We'll get well, let's let's get through the

recap and then I'm going to keep jumping in. Um okay, So Nick Wild the fox is actually up to no good. He's yeah, not bad. He melts down the popsicle to make a bunch of smaller popsicles to sell to lemmings to make a profit. Fun hilarious, right, So then Judy confronts him about it, and he's like, no, I have all the permits I need. Also, you're a loser and you thought that, you know, you would live here and it would be this equitable utopia, but that's not the reality.

So then she goes home and she feels all dejected. But then the next day she stops a thief from stealing a bag of onion like vegetables. Those are important later, I guess um. But even so, Chief Bogo isn't happy with her and he's about to fire her, but then an otter named Mrs Otterton comes in another sorry, another genius name, perfect no notes, voiced by Octavia Spencer. Is that right, Yeah? What a thankless voice role she does.

She has like thirty seconds of screen time. So she comes in saying that her husband Emmett Otterton has been missing for ten days, and Judy is like, well, I'll help find him. So Chief Bogo gives her forty eight hours to find the missing otter, but if she can't then she's off the force and it seems like there are no leads for this case. But then Judy notices Nick the fox in the photo of Emmett Otterton's last known sighting. So Judy finds Nick and makes him help

with her investigation. Emmett Otterton had bought a popsicle from Nick, then he went to a spa, where Judy gets a lead that Emmett left the spa and got into a white car. Also, like every time that she's moving the plot, I mean she's moving the plot forward, but she often moves the plot forward by um breaking the rules of being a cop, where she threatens to put Nick in

jail for tax evasion. Classic cop Like she right, yes, she's kind of born, born to do it because she And then there's that part that we're about to get to where she's like, well, there's ways around getting a warrant. You're like, what the fuck? She sorry, we'll go ahead. She fucking tricks Nick into climbing the fence, so she has probably cause to bake. Yeah, Like that's like fucking coption, Jennifer Goodwin. So then they go to the d m V and run the license plate that the guy at

the spot just happened to remember. Then there's a scene with sloths that I find so annoying. Well, it's another example of like, oh my god, I hated it. They used that as promo for the movie for a while, and I was just like, I don't want to see this movie because this scene sucks. I really hated it so much that. Yeah, I thought it was a funny idea. But again it is like another example of like the predge, this is correct, right, Yeah, we were leaning into the

stereotypes of sloths. I don't know, but as a but as a but as a funny comedy set up where he kept changing the words in the sentence. I was last, maybe the movie's only truly good bit. Uh, yeah, I suppose you're right. I just found that the way that the line delivery of the sloths, I was like that, I just didn't like it. The performance is what I really took issue with. Anyway. So they go to the d m V. That leads them to a limousine company in Tundratown, where they find the limo and inside his

Emmett's wallet and a bunch of claw marks. Judy and Nick are like, what the fuck. But then they get caught by the Limos owner, which is this crime boss Mr. Big. It's a whole like homage to the Godfather for this. This reminded me of like there's a few sequences in this movie where this movie is like going for this

is not the first time I've said this. In the show, they're going for a shreky in energy, but it's perhaps not working, um because they're just like there's this like long homage to a movie that no child has ever seen, and they like, hopefully the parents are going to crack up at this weird Godfather interlude that will come back. I hated came Also, we should put shreky In on some new merch. Shreky and something about shreking energy, shreking

vibes something. It rarely works outside of Shrek and this one. I mean, because there's like multiple points where it's like this movie is very like leaning into pop culture. She's like, listen, anytime there's like a movie where they play all by myself when the character's sad, like, okay, shreky In, um, but it doesn't work. It wasn't laughing, not in Zootopia, Shrek. What I we need to stop the regarding Shrek Rock it's good, I mean, it has its problems, and then

Shrek Too. You gotta see Shrek to Shrek Too is has suffers from many of the same problems. Also going to say this this seek this part rips off training day, yeah day where they're like having in the bathtub and they're both to kill Ethan Hawk and then they find out that he saved the dude's daughter. It's like the exact same thing that happens there, Okay, And again it's like that reference is for who. I don't think it's

a reference that was just straight. That was this plagiarism that was and that was like another bizarro girl boss cop moment where if you like, I mean, it's like, if you apply a second of thought to a lot of the things that happened in this movie, it just completely falls apart or becomes deeply unethical. Um where it's like she saves that what animal is the Godfather is like like a little mole. I think, awesome, No, that's not powesome. I'm from the woods, so I know about

woodland critters. Possums are huge and they're fucking on my neighbor's roof every single night. I think it's like a little mole maybe, but like she saves the Godfather's daughter from and I haven't seen the Grandfather, so I'm just assume, but I know what happens in the movie. Basically, it's pretty good. It's wait, that's a hot take. I've never heard that. You check it out. But Godfather too, Godfather

to suffers from many of this. This person just told me they saw a house of Gucci twice in two days, like fifteen minutes ago. Look, I see, I see it. I haven't seen you know that's true. I mean, we all have our areas we do need to, you know, improve upon. My Godfather spot is not good. But well, we've been talking about for years maybe doing Godfather Month on the Matreon because we covered a frances for Cobla movie recently. But it was Peggy's who got married Francis Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah I did. It's a weird one, but oh so the logic is that Judy saved the daughter from a large doughnut whatever, and then Judy compliments her wedding dress, and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, okay, now the cops can collude with the mob, and then that's just cannon. For the rest of the movie, the cops are colluding with the mob, which happens in real life.

But I don't think that that's any Like the movie is not commenting on anything there, Like the mob is funny r so, and we love cops that here in Zootopia, Oh my god, they love cops. So the crime boss is like, all right, you can get some more information from the driver of the limo. So Judy and Nick go to the rainforest district to talk to the limo driver, a jaguar named Mr Manches, who says that all of a sudden, emmet the otter went wild in the limo.

He became violent and attacked him, all while yelling about night howlers. And then right then Mr Manches also turns into a wild animal and attacks them. Judy and Nick narrowly escape, but when Chief Bogo shows up to the scene, Mr Manches is gone, so Judy has no evidence to support her theory that for some reason, these animals are going wild. But Judy still has a few hours to crack the case. So she and Nick, who are getting

along better, maybe they're even becoming friends. What they set off to city Hall to get help from Assistant Mayor Bellweather, who Assistant Mayor Jenny Slade missing a major piece which thing trauma. Oh, yes, okay, so there's a flashback. Yeah, I figured we'd we'd get sometimes I gloss over. Let me do my job, Matt. So they go to bell Weather, who can get them access to traffic cams to see where Mr Manches went. They discover that a couple of wolves grabbed Mr Manches and put him in the back

of a van. Judy's like, oh, those must be the night howlers, because wolves howl. So they track where the wolves went, which leads Judy and Nick to this facility where they find a number of predator animals basically all the mammals who have recently gone missing, including Emmett Otterton, but they're all like feral and wild. Then Mayor lion Heart comes in. He seems to be the bad guy behind this whole operation. So, like Judy calls it in, the mayor is arrested and it seems like the case

is solved. And this is one of the points in the movie that I got so frustrated because it's like, Okay, city Hall corruption yeah, totally, but but but but you know what institution is above criticism the cops. You're like

a fucking hey, come on. Anyways, So then during a press conference about this case, Judy mentions that all of the animals that went wild, we're predators and mentions that maybe it has something to do with their biology, which greatly upsets Nick since as a fox he is a predator, so he storms off. And then following this press conference, there is civil unrest around Zootopia, with more predator animals going wild and attacking prey animals wondering if they're safe.

There's protests. Also the Shakira as a gazelle. She's like everyone everyone in Zootopia is a huge fan of Shakira. Also that song the Slap. Though, to be fair, try anything pretty good for me, and I'm a fan. I don't dislike Shakire at all, but I just feel like there's other pop stars there. I recently watched Don't Look Up, which I also didn't really like very much, but Ariana Grande fills a similar role in Sure and Don't Look Up and the song and I was equally underwhelmed by

the song Sure. I quite liked don't look up. But that's just me, you know. Anyways, So it wasn't shrekky and enough. And also, as Matt pointed up, I saw how was a Gucci twice, So we're just different people at the end of the day. So Judy feels responsible for this civil unrest and resigns from her cop job, much to the disappointment of Bell Weather, who is now mayor. So then Judy goes back home to become a carrot farmer. But when she's there, she learns about these vegetables that,

when eaton, can make an animal wild and aggressive. And guess what they're called night how Rulers. So it turns out that's what Emmett Otterton was talking about. Also, her bully owns a food truck now question Mark awesome, And it's like the most aware, self aware bully you've ever seen in a movie. He's been in therapy for. Oh, this was one funny. Like one of the funnier flights of logic of the movie is that all the animals

in the Zootopia expanded universe live human length lifespans. Because at the beginning, it's like, you know, Judy is bullied by a future food truck owner, and then it was fifteen years later and it's like, oh, Judy is fully dead. She's fifteen years later, you're telling me a twenty four year old rabbit is good. Piss me off, didn't. I was like, there's so many there's huge, high level issues and then there's little things that it's like, come on, well,

you know, and you're disbelieve you're fair fair? What can I say to that? Okay? So, so it turns out these vegetables are what has been making the predators become violent. So Judy rushes back to Zutopia. She tells Nick her theory that someone is targeting predators on purpose and making them go wild. So then Nick forgives her and the team back up and find a lab where this ram named doug Uh is like making a serum with the

nightholler vegetables that he's been shooting predators with. So that grabbed the evidence and make their way to the police department. Also really clunky breaking bad reference. So on the way they run into Shrek that that is an attempt at the Shreky end, but it's not where it doesn't quite work the way this movie like in the way that I was like, I know what you're talking about, but unlike Shrek, it's making a reference and I'm not laughing.

It's just a reference for a reference to say. So. On the way to the police department, they run into Mayor bell Weather, who ends up being the bad guy who was behind the whole thing. She tries to sabotage them, and she shoots Nick with the serum so that he will go wild and kill Judy. But Nick had loaded the gun with blueberries, so it didn't work. Classic classic switcher. How does this factory into Chekov's guns principle? There's Jason Bavin has to load it with blueberries by the third

act or it shouldn't be there. Um okay. So, and then they managed to get an audio recording on Judy's little Carrot pen that is also a high quality voice recorder um of bell Weather confessing to this whole conspiracy. Bell Weather is arrested, Lion Heart is reinstated as mayor I think, or maybe that doesn't happen. I don't know. Um no, he's like also in trouble, right, yeah, yeah, because he was complicit, but Judy is a hero. And then Nick also becomes a cop slash Judy's cop partner,

and then the movie ends on another sloth joke. I was blown away that it was like, it was like, there's no he's he's good in that he's a cop at the end, and they're like, and don't we love that? And don't we love it? Let's take a quick break and then we'll come right back to discuss back we're back um with odds. Where should we begin here? I think we we um. We gave a preview of some of the mater issues, but there's we didn't even touch

on all of them. There's Joe Biden's America. I know this movie came out in Obama's America, but this is a Joe bidden and then yea all day Okay, so what who is Jason Paymon Black? Like what's what the fuck? There? Great questions questions? Okay, our foxes black? I know this movie doesn't know, but what do you think they thought? I think there's a lot of shrug and going on

between these couple of writers. I feel like the movie gets so a lot like because when the movie starts, I thought I was like, oh, bunnies are being presented as a minority because they're like, well, bunnies don't become cops. Bunnies can't do anything but be carrot farmers, and there's no reference to like jener or anything like that. I was like, Okay, so is that the allegory being set up?

But then it turns out no, that's not. And then and then so it's like every new character I feel contradicts the logic of what the movie has been saying so far. I don't know, here was my best guests. So I think that the movie is setting up a parallel basically that predator animals are people of color and

prey animals are white people. There are a few hints to this as far as like the ratio of like prey to predator, but also that's not even reflective of like a major metropolis, where like a lot of cities are extremely ethnically diverse, So that doesn't even track right. But then also, although I would say, you know the piece where her parents are super afraid of letting her go to the city, that's real, sure, you know, like they're they're like, oh, there's all these predators there. Don't go,

you'll get mubbed or whatever. Right, I'm not saying that was like a good point or anything. I just right. There were like moments where I was like, Okay, I think I understand what the movie is trying to do here, and then there were other scenes where I was like, I just don't know. I just like right, because it's so muddled. The messaging in the allegories extremely muddled. And you'll never guess why. It's because the people who made this movie were a lot of white men. What I okay,

So here's a little here's some context corner. So and I got a lot of this information from So. There was a screening of the movie in and there was a Q and a panel with several of the filmmakers after the screening. So it was Jared Bush, Rich Moore Byron Howard, who all directed the movie. I will say Richmore is a great white guy name What's More Money Baby. Jared Bush also co wrote the screenplay, and also present at this panel was Phil Johnston, the other co writer

of the screenplay. The movie also has several story by credits. Jared Busch is also credited on MO Wanna big here for that guy? J I s Jared, I saw it. We'll do an episode on it. We got to do it with Melissa Right, Okay, so this panel got written about in the rap, so here's where I'm getting a lot of this information. So basically in this like right up, the filmmakers are really patting themselves on the backs, being like, wow, our intentions were like so honorable when we were making,

you know, developing this movie. We wanted to do a movie with like an easily digestible allegory for racism, isn't that And then they talked about like the research they did, and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this movie is so prescient during this time of political unrest because it was released during the time that was leading up to the election. Uh. And they're like yeah, but you know, we've just been paying attention to what's been happening, just

like not even reflective of the movie's production history even remotely. Yes, because it was supposed to be a sixties heist movie, like an espionage John Lasseter and you're just like I was like, so okay, so yeah, the movie went through several drafts and just like wild rewrites. So the filmmakers they're talking about how relevant their movie is. Um, you learn about the research they did, which was mostly on animals, Uh at the Animal Kingdom. They didn't even They literally

are like, let's go to Disney's World. We can do that for free, and let's just stare at Lemmings for six days and be like, all write our movie about racism. You're forgetting about the two weeks safari they went on in Kenya where they studied animal behavior. Uh, they did not seem to do nearly as much research on I don't know, critical race theory or anything like that. It seems as that they talked to exactly one person, Dr Shockty Butler, who is a filmmaker and an educator on

racial diversity. Director Byron Howard said, quote, she taught us everything there was to know about bias and discrimination things we had no idea existed. End quote. So this is the background, Like, this is the context that these filmmakers had for trying to develop this allegory for racism, which

they did not execute well. Which is so clear based on like the story team assembled is I believe five white guys, uh and then um one white woman Jennifer Lee who is the director of The Frozen from Chies, and then one woman of collar Josie Trinidad, who is currently and I think at the time of this movie's release as well, was in charge of the Disney Animation

story team. So it's kind of unclear how much actual story she wrote because her job is primarily translating script to visuals um like storyboarding type stuff, right, right, and that seems to be kind of her her primary job. So it's like impossible to know who contributed what in a team this big. But the team is vast majority white guys, and then you know white people in general, right, So they fumbled it in a number. So okay, this movie we made a billion dollars. A billion dollars, that's

so many, but it still doesn't make sense. Who is Hops? What's Hops? As deals supposed to be? Right, So we've got this, like you were saying, Jamie, the movie is setting up this like the idea that people are prejudiced against rabbits and saying you can't be a can't be

cops Hops is a woman? That okay, so right, right, But it's like if that's the case, they need to make that clear because it's like not like bunnies covered the gender spectrum, but they were just like no bunny cops period, right, So that's confusing and right, So I guess like in this movie, rabbits are women, because there's there's a few other references to that too, where it's like, oh, you rabbits, you're you're so emotional, and oh you throw

like a bunny, you're bad drivers, you throw like a bunny, like all these things that are stereotypes about women. But we know that all rabbits are not women because Dad multiple occasions and the front desktop calls her cute, and

she says that only another bunny can call her cute. Okay, So there's a bunch of like weird, very cringe e jokes that are like specifically referencing either aspects of black culture or stereotypes about black people, right, where it's like, oh, a bunny can call another bunny cute, right, that makes no sense, But if she's who we think she is, right,

Jennifer Goodwin. And then there's another scene where Nick is touching bell Weather's wool on her head and she's like, you can't touch a sheep's wool, which is like, I guess analogous to you, you can't touch a black woman's hair. So this sheep with her wolf. So there's that thing that doesn't make sense, but it's Jenny's Jenny's light has

been in this pickle a couple of different times. And then there's another scene where shortly after Judy meets Nick in like the popsicle place, she's like, Oh wow, you're so articulate, but it's Jason Bates. It's pretty articulate, actually, right. The metaphor is so messy, where sometimes it's a metaphor about discrimination that women face, but we only see that with one character in Judy hops and she's a prey animal, and then the rest of the metaphor is about race

rather than gender. But sometimes references to people of color are attributed to prey animals when the larger allegory is that predator animals are the allegorical people of color. Christian Mark like, it's so messy, and like, I understand that movies, especially when it's like directed towards children, if they're trying to tackle a complex issue, like a complex allegory, they will simplify things and the interest of like making it

digestible for a younger audience. But there's also a responsibility to make that allegory clear and make sure it makes sense and that it tracks, and the movie like again, just fumbles it and every step of the way. I also feel like that not to bring Shreky and back. But if you are, like, it's clear that like Disney at this point, this is true of all Disney movies. They're very self referential and they make it clear that's like, we know that adults are watching this too, and we

want to give you something to enjoy too. So it's like, if that's true, then you need to really think through the entire metaphor. You can't just like throw in a couple of song references and be like it's for grown

ups too. It's like the right And then another reason that this whole metaphor doesn't track is the copaganda thing, where the irony of a movie that is trying to make a statement about racial prejudice that also centers a character who is like this hero cop and in a movie that seems to have like a very pro cop agenda, keep saying like, wow, cops are awesome. We need them

to make our community safe. They help make society a better place, when in the real world, like law enforcement is an institution that was founded on and is one of the biggest enforcers of racial prejudice, which renders the allegory of this movie a complete paradox. Like it just it ends the movie ends with both, Like the movie begins with neither of our protagonists being cops and ends optimistically with both of them being cops. They should have ended the movie at the end of act two where

she she stops being a cop. That was the best part of the movie. Well that was the second best

part of the way. I'll get to the best part, okay, but yeah, I was like, hell, yeah, go off like a back tops, be a farmer, you know, just like work the land, or be something else, like they keep That's why it's like, I mean, even the opening sequence of the movie, they're like, anyone could be anything, and then they come up with like accountant and cops, like there's yeah, the jaguars, Like I want to be an actuary. I don't even know what that is, and I didn't

bother looking it up. I don't know. It sounds boring. Dream Baker kids like do and and yeah, I mean that's of the many things that gets muddled here. It's like, I don't know, I mean, in a movie, even in sixteen it is a very bizarre specific route to choose be being a cop, and then kind of like doubling down on that by I mean, in my head, I'm like, this is a girl boss logic firing on all cylinders, where you know, her parents are like, it's great to

have dreams, but don't don't dream too big. You don't want to dream out of your pay grade kind of thing, which is something you see It happened very often at the beginning of uh story where a woman is told, you know, this isn't your place, and then Drew Barrymore does whatever, and then the movie's over, and that's very clearly what's being set up here. But her dream sucks, and so you're sort of like, well, maybe your parents are right. Yeah, okay, so let's let's just say that

she is like the girl boss white woman. On top of that, she fucking sucks, like she's a piece of ship. Yeah okay, So what do you what do you both think is the movie saying that? Okay, because she has this idea of like, her idea of being a cop has nothing to do with like helping people. It's it's like she says it does, but it does she ever say that yeah, because she says, I want to make the world a better place by being a copy Yeah,

but her actions do not reflect that. Right. She wants to like cough bad guys basically, and so she gets caught up by Gideon as a kid, and that gets like linked to her dream of being a cop, right yeah, and her you know, punitive ideas of justice and like you know, tracking people down and like you know, hunting Weaselton, who I'll get to in a bit. Weaselton's the ship the dopest character in this movie, Weaselton, who I was like, that sounds a lot like Steve bush Emy, but it's

not doing impression. Totally didn't it. So I don't know what they're trying to say. They're trying to say that Foxes are bad, so that's why she's gonna stop them, or she's trauma ties by a fox and so now

she holds an unfair prejudice against Foxes. It maybe both because she wants to be a cop prior to that, but like that moment where she stops the bully and then he specifically says you'll never be You'll never be, and it's like it's like, Okay, I'm rooting for him, like love the pies, like really good good stuff there. I like, it's so I don't know. This movie like really reads to me, like this movie went through five million drafts because it was like her character like regresses

throughout the movie. Because before she leaves for cop Academy, she you know, her parents are being prejudiced towards foxes and here like you know, you gotta be carefully. Here is repellent. And then she says, well, I was bullied by a fox, but it was a mean person who happened to be a fox. And then rabbits are jerks too, Yeah, like anyone can be an asshole, and you're like, okay, like Children's movie, I see where this is going. But then like later in the movie, she I mean, I

guess this is maybe reflective of reality. Becoming a cop sets her views backwards. Yeah, and she becomes more prejudice as the movie goes on, right to the point where she almost fox mess Jason Bateman, who's a black guy.

But she looks to constantly reorient your brain of like right, saying right, I don't know, very stressful, right, She like really, even after she's become friends with this fox, who she again had this like prejudice against up until this part of the story, and he had shared with her this like very traumatic story, which is like that part of the movie like does move me to tears where there's a flashback where he's like, I wanted to join the Junior Rangers and but I was the only predator and

I thought I was going to be welcome, but then I got harassed and assaulted by who I thought were my friends, and they put a muzzle on me. And I learned to accept who I am and if if everyone's just going to see me as a sly, sneaky

little fox, well then that's who I'm gonna be. And he like tells her this story and like it opens up and she's like, oh my gosh, that's awful, and then she becomes like at a press conference, she's like, yeah, well spouting eugenics like she's it's so wild, right, So, like that scene is like bizarre because the movie is suggesting that racism is the result of a press conference from one rabbit and also like one sheep's actions of

shooting blueberry looking paintballs at animals and not like systemic, like a systemic widespread problem. Yeah, I mean it's like this movie is like really determination to not interrogate systemic anything is kind of like I mean, but they kind of do with the mayor's office, but for some reason, like they're willing to go for it there right, but nowhere, not in like right, not in law enforcement, but in

within this allegory. What is Jenny Slate's end game so to like what what is also like Otter Tens a predator, He's like smaller than the right, so like what's the what the fuck? It's so I mean, I feel like one of the And this is not a new point. This point has been made about Utopia many times, and I know that we have a famous tweet from a

friend of the show, Kate Young, about this. But the huge issue, like one of the huge issues is like implying that like in this world there are predators in prey and conflating minorities with predators that have been integrated into society like plays into so many super predator right, like how how did they? I mean, this is classic five white dudes in a room like uh, this is the fucking Hillary Clinton c SPAN press conference where she's

like super predators are like mindless killing machines. These black teens are like mindless killing machines or whatever. M fucking Hillary Clinton, um, girl boss. And so then the whole, the entire conceit of the movie is set up between predators and prey like you're already like on fucking third real city. They're like, you know, and and that's like one of the many. I mean, I think it's like

maybe them. It's hard to say what about this movie is the most egregious, but like that, like taking that logic and then making it can likely true in this world is so fucked Like, yeah, the I wanna so the tweet you're referring to, So Christina Holland at American Wombat, which is an amazing handle, tweeted a couple of years ago. I think a big problem with kids allegories for racism is it's like the Green people and the purple people hated each other just for being the other color. Isn't

that silly? And not the purple people kidnapped the green people and treated them like livestock for hundreds of years. So that's the original tweet. And then friend of the show Kate Young quote tweeted it and then just said glares at Zootopia, which is like very much the problem with this movie. It's ignoring the coherent enough to be guilty and bad. It's missing so many points. But like right, but I mean shout out to Kay. Yes, yeah, this

movie is like incoherent in such a frustrating way. But like casting like the white coated animals question mark, because that fluctuates throughout the movie wildly, but like I think ultimately who we are supposed to believe for the white coated animals as prey is like well, no, like it's just I mean we should say that Jason Bateman's partner in crime, he's like the blackest dude I can think of.

It's it's tiny Lester, who is like Debot from Friday, and you know, he's like the big, bald, scary dude. He was a very deep voice and in the movie he's the tiny little fox with big ears or I don't even know what kind of animal that is. But he's like pretending to be Jason Bateman's character's son when

they do their whole like scam scam. He rules too, because the second he the second the cop comes around, he's like not fucking with her, and then when Bateman decides to help the cop, he's like, I'm not fucking with you. The movie him. Weaselton was like, oh, so now you're helping a cop. That's why we okay. Weaselton rules because he calls that out off the rip. And then later when he gets like Mr Big is like going to kill him, he's like dangling him above like

an ice pit. And Weaselton's still like, buck you for hanging out with cops, like, I would never fucking I would never funk with the fun with cops, Like he's just down to die for the coups, Like Weaselton's the hardest due in this movie. He's also selling an array of DVDs that are referencecing shreking references to other Disney movies that we're coming out around this time, such a but they're all like the animal versions of it. My favorite one is obviously Meajuana, so it's Mowanna as a cat.

I like this part, so that's the best part of the movie. Perhaps his iPad was tight to that was some cold design animal bands stuff. Yeah, but um, let's you know what, Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back. God all right, we're back. Now where do we go? So, there's there's so many places we could go. Here's where I would like to go next. So the movie repeatedly uses a word that is a slur. I will use the word to identify it. The word

is savage. Again. The movie uses it repeatedly to refer to the animals who have gone wild and have become violent and attacked. So, uh, this word is a very offensive slur toward indigenous people in particular, I will say, I guess in the movie's defense, the conversation around this word being a slur was not a very mainstream conversation at the time of this movie is like making and release.

It's been in kind of like more recent years that this conversation has been brought to the forefront of cultural consciousness. But even so, one of the many elements of this movie that aged extraordinarily poorly five years right, um. I asked a friend of the cast, Jess Merwin, their thoughts on the use of this word in the context of the movie. I said, you know, is it still offensive in the context that it is being used in this movie? Or is it just a word that should be eliminated

from our vocabularies entirely. And this is what just had to say. Within Western culture, the concept of savage exists in a binary with the concept of civilized, the idea of one cannot exist without the other in opposition. Even though in the film the word isn't being applied to human beings, this binary still presents itself in the behavior of the animals being labeled savage. They are violent, they

are volatile, they are quote other. When we associate violence, volatility, being uncontrollable, being other with the word savage, we perpetuate the harm that the word was intended to do when it was applied to black and indigenous people. So basically, for any listeners or anyone who's just not aware this word, don't use it. Thank you, j Yes, thank you so much Jess for your time and thoughts. So but yeah,

I was counting. The word gets used in the movie no less than a dozen times, possibly more, just like constantly, especially like after the halfway mark, which and and it's the way it's used is to kind of reinforce this gigantic failed metaphor. That is, like the word is used to apply to predators, which again is like a hillary the Hillary Clinton. It's infuriating and and I wanted to

get into that part two. I don't know, just like as this movie was going on, there just more and they were I feel like every time one metaphor would kind of sputter and fail, they would start another one, and that one would also be really poorly realized and

not good. The last big set piece of the movie that's trying to comment on something unclear is the what is it that howling the night howers right where they're implying, you know, it's And there was a lot written about this, like not right when the movie came out, but like for some reason and eighteen I think people rewatch this movie and they were like, now, hold on a second. Is Utopia trying to comment on the drug epidemic in

the US? I'dn't even consider that. Uh well, the arguments for that include the including this like very throwaway goofy breaking bad reference and like basically implying that the government is bringing drugs into quote unquote predator neighborhoods and turning them into like, uh, I don't I don't know what

to but you know what I mean? Like, and so I think that in the third act of this movie, they're trying to like comment on the crack epidemic and like, but again it's so poorly realized and so like in this movie, like last minute like that, you're just it's like, what are you doing, guys, Like execute one thing correctly, like truly one thing. They simply can't. Wow, Yeah, that doesn't occur to me either. It's now that you bring

it up, it is very wild. This is from it was like referenced in a review of this movie from Birth Movies Death Um that did come out at the time that the movie came out, but yeah, just sort of reference that. It's like it appears that like, yeah, the government is bringing drugs into certain neighborhoods and then you know, using the media to inspire fear and hatred among everyone else, like in the quote unquote in Utopia,

World Prey. This movie is so funny and then like and on top of that, the depiction of media in

this movie I also found to be very bizarre. Where media is obviously very very up for criticism, but the way it's used here is primarily Oh, the only reason that Judy really fumbled and couldn't stop spouting eugenics and her one press conference is because the media was twisting her words and like they were like media training, but she immediately forgot and they like and it's like implied that like the media is misreporting on police press conferences,

which I wouldn't say is the problem, Like it's it's I don't know, it's just incoherent. Like every issue they try to tackle, it's like I don't know what you're saying, but I think I disagree, And then other words it's like, oh yeah, I definitely disagree. But like that was another moment where I'm like, what does it take, like believe cop press conferences, Like what is the takeaway from that? To quote ma wanna, what is the lesson? What is

the takeaway? Don't miss with Mauie when he's on the breakaway. This movie needed more Maui problem. One thing I think this movie gets pretty accurate is um, dirty cop bullshit because Hops pulls out all the tricks, but that's not the movie. It's like presenting her as being like, look how lever she is. She's so resourceful, she can get stuff done, because like I think maybe one of the reasons this movie was requested so frequently, especially like shortly

after it came out. Is because it's like an example, I mean, very much on the surface. You could look at this movie and be like, oh, it's a female character who is really motivated and really active, and she's driving the narrative and she's smart. She undergoes an arc and she got more racist. But like she literally almost shoots Jason Bavan at the like at the end of the second act, just for like because he kind of

scared her and she almost one billion dollars. So anyway, what was I saying, Um, oh, you're taking to highly motivated a female character, like a surface feminine so so I I guess it has that going for it. But as we've pointed out, that female character is just like girl Boss cop Lady, who is like doing crooked cop ship. But the movie is not. Actually, the movie's intent is not to be like, look at how crooked cops are.

It's like, look at how resourceful this clever bunny is well and and like Jason Bateman Fox with Nick nick Nick like says that once, like when she's in the middle of doing a cop crime, he's like smart a little bunny. It was like, what the fuck is happening? Do we, um, did we hit on all of the cop crimes? She did? Because we we did? Reference we should run it down. Yeah, do you does anyone have a comprehensive list? Because there there was a bunch. Okay,

So she tries to um. Well, first of all, she profiles Gideon in the beginning, before she's even a cop, she's on her fucking Kyle Rittenhouse ship and she just fucking sticks her no into some ship that's not, frankly her business. I mean, I guess her friends were getting robbed, but you know, don't snitch. Um. So she profiles Gideon, and then when she gets to Zutopia, she profiles Well.

First she's like, hype to give out parking tickets. Yeah right, She's like hundred, I'll give out two hundred by noon, and this is supposed to endear us to her. And if it's a parking ticket in a city like Los Angeles, for example, that then costs somewhere between like sixty five and seventy five dollars. And she's so she's like basically robbing the civilians of Utopia. She doesn't want to help people, she just wants to facilitate. Trying to exactly from everyone.

Then she um tries to basically blackmail Wild after he explains his scam, she pulls up she has tax forms? Did she Why does she have those? I don't know to blackmail him with I know, but well, I guess she planned ahead. That was like a premeditated black if she already had the forms. She tricks Wild into jumping a fence, um so she can use probable cause to also jump the fence and break into a car to

get evidence. I mean, Mr Mantchez is basically having a mental health episode and she just calls more cops to the scene to funk him up, which historically has never goes well. Yeah, like she does so many cop crimes. And also like there's just like these kind of I mean again and maybe this is more like kids movie stuff,

but it's like kids copaganda, so it's complicated. But there's like multiple moments where she's fired and then she's just like no, I'm not, and then she's not, and then at one point Jason Bateman is like no, she's not, and then it's like you can't. You don't even work here, what are you talking about? Like, but he will also we should point out that like Bateman is like, you know, he's the criminal or whatever, and then when he reforms,

he just becomes a cop. So like that's like, that's like the station that all goodhearted animals and Utopia aspire to, the pipeline from criminal. Before he meets Hops, he could never dream of being a cop. It's like, catch me if you can. When he's like, first, I'm a con artist and I'm so good at that that I'm going to help the cops learn about con artists. And that's what happens at the end of the movie. They both

fucking suck. They suck so much it's so like, it's so frustrated, like and I feel like the way that Idris Elba's character is used is also like he's one of the only black voices in the cast, and he's cast in the police chief role, which is, at least right now, is a very popular trope of like the black police chief who just kind of unquestioning lee holds

up the establishment. It's just, I don't know, the fact that this movie has no interest in interrogating policing at all is just so like mind blowingly frustrating to the Elda thing. Elda thing is so modeled too though, because he has such a specific like South London accent and like voice. Yeah, if they want, if they needed to like get a black cop, like he's like the not he wouldn't even be in like my top one voice list,

you know, right, nothing. It's just so like I just feel like it's yet another example of like this movie just like no one is in the room who is thinking it through? And the little tiny bit of research they seemed to do was to ask one person who she taught them everything, and then they went to Disney World to congratulate themselves. Oh my god, Oh wait, one more thing. Um, there's a fucking you'll ever seen like the TikTok or Instagram videos or like cops play basketball

with kids, like like you know, we're community policing. We're like we're cool. You can talk to us like we're down. You don't know what I'm talking about. It's just like bad cop propaganda to be like, look, we're actually cool, but it's like pretty popular in the social media age. There's like a thing at the end where she plays soccer with these two kids. Did you catch that? Like she's walking into city off She's like hey kids, check this out. Hello, fellow kids, it's me a cop. Um. Okay,

here's a thing I'll say. Ready, So, Gideon the Fox speaks with a thick accent from somewhere in the American South. I don't know. Um. So, there's obviously a tendency to assign like American Southern accents to someone who has like a backward way of thinking, someone who has like regressive politics. I myself have been guilty of doing this in the past. But it's like it's basically doing what the movie is trying to say, Hey, don't do this, don't make sweeping

generalizations about people. Don't like lean into stereotypes. And that's what they're doing with that character. I had that as well, Wow, look at us, look at us. Um it is a small thing, and I feel like it is something that it's not even like inherent to animation, although animation tends to be a worse perpetrator of most tropes because it's

such an exaggerated form. But yeah, I mean I feel like that's something we see all the time of the person who is wrong quote unquote, even though he's like, don't be a cop, but like he's wrong. Uh, you know, he shouldn't have hit her. Okay uh. I think the person who is wrong is given a Southern accent, and the person who is right has a coastal accent even though they live in the same place, And like, why is does everyone here have and why does everyone here

have a different accent? And it is truly I think, like just assigning heroism and nice good ideas to people from the coasts and if you have any kind of any I mean really like most regional American accents are applied to people who you're not supposed to think are as smart as someone who talks like they you know, like work in Manhattan or whatever the funk, you know what I mean. So yeah, that's just yet another weird

l this movie voluntarily takes one billion dollars. Another one, I would say is the movie leans into some fat phobic tropes and stereotypes with the Clawhouser character and that he's constantly eating, He's like very sedentary and out of shape. The one time he has to like chase after someone he like is not able to physically move very well. Just different things like that. And there's there's the movie

being shitty yet again in in a different way. I know, like we've we've like referenced a lot that there's just like so many individual moments in this movie where you're like the moment that you've brought up, Matt where um, where Judy quits being a cop at the end of the second actor, we're like, let's call it. We did it.

Movie done. But again how it's like just like such a nasty feminism that is being expressed here that is extremely white and in service of all things capitalism, where it's like the framing for her quitting being a cop because she, in the world of this movie has ruined the city is like, but what about your dream? Girl? Like they're like, girl, don't come up on your dreams

to fucking ruin society. You're like, what, but the movie believes that the movie believes that she would be morally wrong to give up on her dream of ruining society, Like it's just so misguided and so like, I don't know. And then Eadris Elba says, the world has always been broken, that's why we need good cops like you. And then she's like, I quit and then she's like, no, you're right, I'm going to get a new cop on the forest and recrude. I'm recruiting people, yea, so um, but that

sex Bole they go to fucking kicks ass. That's like where I would hang in Utopia. I was trying to think of, like what micro climate I would want to go to, because that sequence where she first she takes the train, gotta give it up. That part she's cruising through all these climates. You've seen Utopia, which looks very much like Asgard from the Thorn movies, by the way, and I was like, yeah, I wonder where I would live.

I think I chose the jungle, but then once I saw the sex Spot, it's wherever that is that your number one favorite part of the movie. I mean, no, I'm never a part of the movie is when Weaselton is just like I'm ready to die, motherfucker, like I will never help the cops like fucking kill me. But um, yeah, the sex Spot part is sex Spot rules. Yeah. The world building in this movie from a strictly visual point of view, not like cultural or societal, but just like visual.

It's like very pretty and cool. I loved I loved. Was it called Rodentia or something where it's like where it was just a bunch of dollhouses. I liked that. That was fun, the filmmaker. So, speaking of kind of the world building, the filmmakers consulted experts such as zoologists, who were like, this is how animals move and what their fur looks like. I just like that shouldn't be

priority number one, right, That's what I'm saying. Like, But they went so far as like consult specialists from the Americans with Disabilities Act who helped construct a city where like a two inch little rodent would live in the same city as like a twenty seven foot giraffe. Um. They also consulted h VAC system designers to figure out how to, for example, build a tundra neighborhood next to a desert. But they just only talked to that one lady about how to do racism. Like that's all sounds

pretty cool, but there's one there. Oh god, that's so. I mean, it's like and that research. I'm sure that that was really fun and interesting. It's like, you gotta do the whole movie. You can't just do Yeah, it could have been awesome if they had just gone with a different story. I mean, the setting is awesome. Um. I read that. I forget which of the directors this was.

But basically when he was pitching to John Lasseter, who obviously John Lasseter, but he was like, yeah, When I told him we wanted to do a movie about talking animals who wear clothes, John Lasseter reportedly picked him up and like hugged him and was like we green Light was just laughing because just like picturing a grown man picking up another grown man and like an excited of animals and clothes, which does happen all the time. The design of Zutopia reminded me a lot of Richard Scarry's

Busy Town. Oh. I really loved it when I was a kid. Oh, I can't wait to show you. It was just like it was a city where all animals live together, and they wear clothes, and they have jobs and um, and they, as far as I can remember, don't attempt any themes that are way out of their

depth like Zutopia does. I do feel like with this movie it's kind of another example of and we've talked about this, I think from a lot of different angles over the years, but like taking a massive societal ill like racism and prejudice in general, and making it like one person's fault and then being like and then they either learned from their miss like they learn and then they say, let's all get along. And then one person goes to jail and we're not going to talk about jail,

like and then problem is solved. And that's like, what because one rabbit solved the problem? Because one rabbit became more racist? Like I firmly believe she became more and more racist as the movie was going on. But like, by sending Jenny Slight to jail, racism is solved. Is

the logic that this movie is operating under. I also think it sucks that it's like the only other like dominant female character in this movie is like the most evil person in the world, which you know it happens, but but it's a there's just I feel like we've

we've seen this. I always go back to I don't know why, I always go back to the Girl with the Dragon tattoo, and we talked about this, but like there's a character who assaults Lizabeth Salander in that movie and he is like this, you know, a symbol of all misogyny. And by defeating this one man, we have we've we've fixed it, and nothing bad is ever going

to happen again. And I feel like that's like there's a version of that going on here with a different theme that it's just like attributing a systemic, centuries millennia long problem too. It was one person who's responsible, well, like refusing to even reference any of the issues within the system even though the movie is about Yeah, I mean the conspiracy goes to city Hall, so they they they're me at the system right like and city all and cops get along. Like that's another like, I don't know,

I don't know. Does anyone have any other thoughts? Um, good for Shakira. Good for Shakira. I will say that a far, far, far better animal movie with a climactic showdown between the protagonist and the villain that takes place in a natural history museum is Paddington One. Wow, I didn't think of that. You know what else is like? Um Tailspina, Yeah, but it's it was like Jungle Book characters but they live in a city. Oh, I wow, I haven't thought about that. In Becky Whoa it was

like on Disney Channel. Um, yeah, it might have been on regular STV too. I can't remember Starday Morning Cartoon. Think whoa. I wonder if that holds up. It sounds fun. I think I remember they're doing a new Disney plus one. Okay, well that's the law. You have to every piece of intellectual property must be rebooted. And if it's anything like Utopia,

if it'll be Mark capaganda billion dollars. Yeah. I part of me is like, what about though, like the target audience, and is this, despite its many problems, is this movie an okay, jumping off point for young children to learn about racism and prejudice. It could be. I don't want to like undermine that as a possibility, but like, I wouldn't show this confusing and inconsistent so never mind scratch that.

I mean, and it's again, it's like listeners if you know, we're not parents, so like, if your kid loves this movie, we would be interested to hear. Yeah, personally, I don't know this. This one is too messy. I wouldn't want my kids first introduction to these themes be this movie because this movie doesn't know what it's saying. Yeah, very true. It passes the Bechdel test though apparently between Jenny Slatee and Jennifer Goodwin iconic Wow, what do they talk about

it's like sticking together talking at cops. Us. Little guy's got to look out for each other, and she's like woman's solidarity, the cop and the evil mayor. Um. Okay, So as far as feminist, that is feminism five nipples. As far as our nipple scales zero to five nipples. Based on how the movie fares when examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'll go with we'll get with this movie a half nipple because, uh, the main character is a woman, and um, she's you know, people are

sexist towards her question mark. Um, but again that this is I just because this is where we find out you've been friends with Officer Hops the whole time. Um, so yeah, obviously I'm having a hard time justifying this. Um I'll give it half nipple because of weaselton character and the horny, horny horny animals at the horny horny sex spots, and those are the only redeeming things. Judy shut up. She's just so happy if the movie half a nipple. He was like, you should have been five.

What about at the end they're driving like a militarized tank, Like, oh my god, and they just fucking pull over the slot dude, like, come on, and even though he was speeding, it's implied that they're like, we'll let you off the hook because you're my friend. Oh yeah, Oh, I thought baby was like hyped to throw the book at I don't know, hard hard to say. I'm giving this movie

no nipples. I really didn't like it. I did. I mean, there are like small characters and like small scenes that I liked, but I just like, I don't know, this movie was such a bummer to watch. It's such a bummer that it came out so recently. I just think it's just like, and I know I sound like an asshole saying this, but I think it's neoliberal trash and I gets useless and I don't like it. Um Weaselton was fun. I laughed at the slop scene and the

Shakira song was Okay, it's slightly better than okay. Anyway, how about you if you think I'll give it one Okay, I think it's a problematic and neoliberal trash. But if you aren't thinking too hard, or it's on in the background, or you want to just drag it with your friends, it's pretty good looking I mean visually, the world building is kind of fun. Just talk over it one nipple. If you are not watching it, what you're saying. If it's un mute and you close your eyes every time

there's a cop on screen, it's actually awesome. Now I'm just doing the thing of like thinking about how I really liked this movie like five short years ago. Sure, but it's like it's yeah, like we said, it's a testament to how things are progressing, and it's fun to reflect on that. This is this was this this, this one broke my brain a little bit. This was a tough This was a tough prep. But I'm I'm glad we did it. Thank you for Thank you for bringing it to us, Matt, even though it sounds like you

kind of didn't want to. I mean, thanks for whoever requested it. Because I was thinking, I didn't realize it would be such a rich text to dive into. Yeah, I didn't either. I genuinely did not know what this movie was about. I was like, they're at the zoo. It's it's Madagas, it's that movie. We bought a zoo. We bought a zoo. We should cover that movie. I'm kidding I don't know what I mean people sentence, but I've been wrong before. Well that yes, thank you so

much for being here. It's been a delight. Thanks so much for having me. Where can people follow you on social media or if there's anything you'd like to plug? Um, yeah, I don't really post too much, but it's Matthew Mixon at Twitter and Instagram. Oh, actually, can I point my mutual aid thing? Absolutely? Okay, Um, yeah, we have a small mutual aid group and um, we're not very big.

But if you go to the links on my my link tree or whatever, all the money I'll just like or you can buy like Amazon stuff like socks and tents and blankets and stuff. It's pretty cold in l A right now. We just go out every couple of weeks. And yeah, if you send me money, it'll go to tents and cool stuff that people need. Or if you just want to buy stuff off the Amazon links. Um, I really appreciate it. Hell yeah, so amazing. And if you can follow us on social media at pecktel Cast

on Twitter and Instagram. You can subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon that is at patreon dot com slash pecktel Cast. It's five dollars a month. It gets you Tube bonus episodes every month, plus access to the entire back catalog on a hundred episodes. We're finally this month U Matreon. We read books. We're doing the Jane Austen adaptations. You want to stop bugging us about um and Okay, we're not going to make a habit of reading books, so

don't get used to it. Strongly anti book, anti reading podcast. But just this once we each read a book. We bought a zoom more like we read a book. Uh, that was awful. You can get merged at dot com slash the effectel Cast, where I will I will commit to Shrek shreky in. I have a list of so many shirts that we've said we would design over the years. Ultimately I have not designed a new shirt in two years. Since that's on me and now I uh bye, good episode, everybody, Bye bye