Waiting to Exhale with Errin Haines

my home state of Pennsylvania, Philip. Oh yeah, can we say that you can do whatever you want? Jamie? Can we say that your family's here? Oh yeah, my mom and sister here A tepid response about that there, Well, I was thinking our first live episode we ever did was in my home state of Massachusetts. Ever heard of it? And my mom positively ruined the episode by getting extremely horny for our guests. So that was one of my

favorite episodes. I was permanently traumatized by it. Interesting, my mom absolutely and then I don't even know how do we can get into it? But like our guest, for a brief time, this is over a year ago was considering pursuing my mom. It's like, your mom's so nice. She im me on Facebook and she has a wild view of what should be capitalized and what shouldn't be Like he DMed me and it was like, hey, should I ask out Jamie's mom? And you said. I said,

your body, your choice. See, I was hoping you would say hard no, But I gave my mom the heads up and she was like, well, let's see what he says. Uh. Sorry, I have to notice we've got people reading The friend Road drinking and a MIC's Hard, got Mike's Hard. Oh my god, wait what flavor are you rocking? Sorry, there's a mark? Are you kidding me? Oh? Thank you so much? Okay, I was waiting for you. Just wow, wow for me. Unbelievable. Guys, thank you. Uh, it's been a really long year. We

all had to, you know. The hardest part of the year for everybody, of course, was weathering the MIC's hard Lemonide Deadpool two crossover. That was just absolutely difficult for us to get through because when you think about it, it really is a perfect match. Every person buying a MIC's hart Lemonade in Earnest is seeing Deadpool two multiple times. Yeah, so anyway, round of applause, who has seen the movie we're covering tonight? Waiting to exhale. Oh yeah, we love

when people do homework out of curiosity. By round of applause, who is not seeing the movie? Okay, alright, alright, alright? Does anyone here think that they were coming to see an episode about Mulholland Drive? Any jazz there, colo co col uh? Well, very different episode and we can't wait to have the discussion with you. Yeah, we originally had on our ticket, Lenk that we were covering Mulholland Drive,

and then we changed it and mikes are eliminated. I think we've said we've I mean, what haven't we said about it? But what is our podcast? What is it? We talk, as you know, and we talked about the portrayal of women in movies and how it's historically very bad, and we use the e Bectel test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation m about women in film. Hey, you guys probably know, but for our listeners at home, who maybe this is their first episode

they're tuning into. Yeah, well, let' see if they can say it. Yeah, so ready, ready, Caitlyn. Our friends are stupid. They're dumb. I don't know what to do. I thought there was smart, but I was wrong. I have a feeling that everyone said the exact right thing, but just at different paces, so you have a higher faith there. So just to recap what you all said very correctly in unison figs back to a little test requires that a movie has two named female identifying characters who speak

to each other about something other than a man. Yes, for example, really quick, Hey Caitlin, Hey Jamie. I'm having a little contest with myself for tour to keep myself entertained, which is what is the worst outfit I can come up with? Uh? For? I mean, I think I'm starting up pretty strong, got period panties on and then a sheer Coachella's skirt over it, and then of course rocking the team dry Scabs merch of top right before we

bring out our guests. I just wanted to take a quick uh take the temp where Philly is at on the Dry Scabs Wet Scabs debate? Are we're all familiar with what this is? If you don't know what the debate is, if beetlejuice. The character was coming. Is he coming wet scabs or is he coming dry scaps? Now, I clearly we know where I'm a ds A member,

I say dry scaps. But just a quick clap it up if you're feeling if you're feeling like it's a wet scabs situation, oh physically painful, Okay, and dry scalps, this is gonna be a great chef. Uh clap, clap it up. If you're as disgusted by that conversation as I am, Caitlin, you're splitting the vote. This is why that's happened. This is why this happened. We're splitting it. A friendly Jill Stein over here. God, let's bring out our guests. Let's do it. We're so excited to have

for so excited. She is the Associated Press national writer on race and ethnicity, and she's worked at the Washington Post in Los Angeles. Times give it up for Aaron Haynes Whack. Who welcome Aaron. You know, thanks for having me. It's a delight, absolute pleasure. So as we said, that movie we're talking about today is waiting to exhale. Um. Some of you have seen it, others of you are here, so totally my fault. Aitney Houston is not in Mulholland Drive.

Although what have absolutely something worth considering. Um, what is your history with Waiting to Exhal? Aaron? Okay, So Waiting to Exhale came out the year that I graduated from high school, which I don't mind sharing with you guys, because Melanin, Um, yeah, And I mean these women were like obviously like total icons of like the culture at that time. I mean, Whitney Houston, Angela Bassett, Lauretta Divine, Layla, Rashawn.

You know, like these were women who you thought were like your cool auntie you or like your cooler older cousin. So you just immediately loved the movie for that because

these people felt immediately familiar to you. But also, I mean, Terry McMillan was such a big part of black culture at that time as an author, so you know, I think for a lot of reasons, Uh, this movie kind of immediately resonated with like black women of all ages, and it was something that rewatching it as a grown woman, I definitely have different feelings about but like at that time, at that time, story the big cast exactly, no This

definitely fits into that genre, you know, kind of like, yeah, w t of a generation like Caitlin, what's your history? I hadn't seen this movie. I was familiar with the gift moment. Does everyone know what I'm talking about? Where Angela Bassett's walking away from the burning car and she does a and if you if you've ever used that gift? Yeah, exactly, yea, exactly tell me you'all alive. The context of the gift is way more satisfying. So much more satisfy. Yeah, so

much more so. I hadn't seen it, but I'm very excited to talk about it same I uh, in keeping with being myself side this morning. And uh, because I have never seen a movie. If you go to her iTunes reviews, it's a common complaint. No, I I've seen scenes from this movie. You before, i'd seen the gift. I'm familiar with the gift. I had used the gift, yes, and then now I've now I feel even stronger about the gift than I did when I first started using it.

You have a new appreciation for that gift. I would just used search term Angela Carr that'll get you what you and that will get you the gift, but it will not get you the context. But if you look of Angela car, the gift generally comes up. But yeah, I saw today. I've seen scenes of it over the years. It's one of my aunt's favorite movies. Shout out to your auntie, shall I do? The recap of the movie went, oh,

my goodness. Uh and this will especially be helpful for the people who thought we were going to talk about waiting. So it's New Year's Eve. U. Yeah, and that's actually the beginning Aniot Yeah, circle Like Rent, I believe we're in Phoenix, Arizona, where apparently, um, a lot more black people live than I thought. That was my first thought watching that movie. I was like, whoa, it's a lot

of black people living in I'm from Atlanta. I did not know Phoenix is apparently the Atlanta of the Southwest, according to this film. Didn't it was news to me. I don't know. Yeah. Absolutely. Uh. So we meet four friends, Uh Savannah Jackson, that's Whitney Houston's character, Bernardine Harris is Angela Bassett, Robin Stokes is uh Layla Howe, and Gloria Matthews is Laretta Divine. They are all holding their breath or some might say waiting to exhale. Oh, they lots

of flourishes in the recap to that. I wrote one out just you know. It's in my Dog. There, there's color coding, there is always Yes, it's six pages, eight point font ye. So they're basically waiting until they find the right man, and the story centers around different relationships between men that are in their lives. So Savannah, she's moving to Whitney Houston. Yes, yes, yeah. I feel like we're going to be switching a lot back and forth

between character names and actors in this one. Definitely. So the first guy in her life is Lionel. She meets him at a New Year's Eve party, one of many slow dance scenes, and she says the title to the movie sort of. I was very excited about, but acting was not. When she was known for. Can't we say that she can sing? She can sing? No, she can sing. Though her contribution to the soundtrack, which we will get too later was very important. Yes, here's what I'll say

about Whitney Houston as an actress. She can sing exactly, amazing thing. I think she did a pretty good job. Yeah, okay, yea so Linel. They have sex in a really funny sex scene, but he turns out to be like a cheap, like freeloader dude, so she's like, get out of here, onto the next one. Meanwhile, we've got Bernard Dean. She is married to this guy and John. Yes, yes, So she's married to this guy named John and he leaves

her and her two kids on New Year's Eve. On New Year's Eve, gasp, yes, gasp, but it was shocking. He comes in the room and she's like not feeling going to the New Year's Eve party, and he's like, hey, do you want to not go to the party, and she's like, oh thank god. He's like, because I'm going with the woman I'm leaving you for. I was like, oh my god, Happy New Year. It's like they gotta sitter in everything. And then he's like, hold on, actually,

this marriage is over right insane. So then that's followed by a sequence where she takes all of his expensive things and then burns them into his car. I mean, where is her oscar? Folks, where is Angela Bassett's oscar? For this? Like, I mean, the nobody does despair and rage like Angela Bassett and you know, this needs to be Is there like an honorary oscar that can be given to her? Now, yeah, retro, we need to go back.

This needs to be recognized by someone. It's crazy because a lesser actress, it would have just sounded like us, like spewing exposition, which is what she's doing. She's like I went to grad school speaking no, no, no, there were there was. I mean like she just she delivered just like one of her many like epic lines in the movie, like I was your white woman for eleven years, and I'm like, yes, burn it all, burn it all.

It was amazing, It was amazing. I think I think that was the first time that I really learned what satisfaction really was, what gratification could really feel like. I felt it in that moment, even at that young age. I recognized the cigarette, Oh my god, and then lights the car on fire, and then the gift and you're just like, yes, is the best thing ever. I felt what she felt in that in that moment. And then the fire department comes intos like She's like, yes, trash,

yeah I was. That fireman was so baffled, but he also looked horny like and he knew not to take it further as well. He knew. He was like all right, ma'am, all right, and he's like, I'm not going to get in the line of fire of whatever has happened. He has doors already slammed in. Your face is over. You know, he's done. Nothing's happening. He got his SAG card. Get out of there. You're done. Yes, uh so, yeah, she burns all this stuff and then she's like trying to

get money from him or something. My font is really small, so I can't read. Um. Well, there's like a big divorce. Like there that yard sale, the yards where stuff for a dollar dollar. Seventeen year old meat thought, I mean I was really appreciative of the petty of the dollar yard sale. Grown asked me, is like, this was not a last financial choice. Boot. You didn't know what you were going to get in that divorce. Mean while you, I mean, you may not have a potopist Like why

are you selling his stuff for a dollar? I mean that car alone, it burns everything and then sells the like skis for one dollar. Absolutely no choices. But again, this whole, this whole movie, he's about poor judgment. I recognize that now you guys, I recognize that the pettiness in this movie is very strong, but in a very satisfying way. Black Girl tragic is that like that? So then she's dealing with like the grief of this divorce for the rest of the movie. Uh. And then meanwhile,

we've got Robin. I feel like she would have been an Instagram thought like in like just just based on her behavior, some of her choices. I feel like she would have been on Instagram who agrees with doing them doing the most? Yeah, okay, okay, just wondering. Her first guy is Michael, who she works with, and she is not attracted to him. She called him him a Sumarne sandwich. She fat shames him, she really did. Yeah, it's it's

not okay, she came down heart in him. But also we know that she I mean, she makes it very clear she is physically repulsed by when she did. And then he undermines her work, so she fires him. So good for her. I guess what if you're bad sex, you're fired right right, But this time women are doing it. And then we meet Gloria. She is a single mother of a teenage Donald face on Hello, Shout Out to

You scrubs clueless anyone. Josie and the Pussy can prebraces too, And you can hear it in the line reads true, bless his heart had a bad haircut, all of it. All that, it's a very convincing teenager. But wow, his mom was a hairdresser, Like why why did he have a bad haircut? I don't know. I'm just questions that I'm asking now. I did not He's just a rebel. He's like, my hair is gonna look like ship, I guess. And then her whole thing is she hasn't had sex

in a long time, so she's extremely horny. Uh. Then a moment of silence from I'm loving I'm loving your your takeaways, your synopsies are these characters. This is hilarious. That was a very strange moment. I think it was my fault, but I don't know. So then we lost. It's time for more. Savannah's men troubles. A lot of bad wigs, a lot of bad wigs. Her next also noticed that in retrospect of bad wigs, we just want to put that out there, didn't have some good wigs.

But she could sing. She kids saying. The one thing in this movie she does not do so Whendy Houston starts seeing Kenneth, who I call Mr all State because you can't you cannot look at him now without thinking about that. So true. She was not in good hands, all right, because he is married and he has a sub child and I used to date but then he got married and then an't you married when they were

dating the first time? I don't know? And I thought, so, right, Yeah, that was why they couldn't work out before, because you know, the little matter of his wife and child. Uh, you know that was complicating things. Not that that bothered her a Savannah's mother in the least. Yeah, She's like, you need a man, all women. I don't want you to

be alone because I can't take care of you. Yes, And that storyline concludes with her dumping him and being like I'm too good for you bye forever, and then and then calling her mom and being like, stopped telling me to get married. Click also stopped you co signing my side chick behavior like I'm gonna I'm a reform side chick now I'm leaving that life. It's like, okay, girls. Yeah, that was supposed to be one of the many moments where you're like yes, but I'm just really like it's

about damn time. Like I was. I was much more disgusted with her. I was much more disgusted with this movie in general, actually rewatching it um than I was before, because I was like, oh yeah, girl, yes dumb. It's like, no, you you really should not even be in the picture. Ye get here here, Hey, Jamie, what you say? We take a real quick break and then we'll come back

for more. Sounds good to me, right. Every Something rare about this movie that we don't get with movies with women and them ever, is we know what everyone's job is, which is great. However, the way they show people doing their jobs is very like, you know, it's sort of like in a sign. It's a movie where they're like chemicals right there, we see we know that Whitney Houston is a TV producer because she stands in front of screen. You don't get to actually see her producing right that.

It's like, oh, well, she she is there? Uh se is that her office looking usance? It's probably probably probably she stands in front of a chart at one point and we're like, oh okay, yeah, right, could have been she could have been doing anything she could have been. And then Gloria's doing hair and we see her doing her job and we know she's good at it. Everyone else is sort of just like a, yeah, she's there,

so probably it's fine. But I will say, I mean even a little bit that they did show, like to me as as a young woman, like that telegraph to me like that these west successful professional black women, right, and so like this is kind of what I envisioned like women and their Black women in their thirties being like right, except for the like not getting married part, because like I didn't really see that for my future, but like I did see, yes, these women have jobs,

like they have their ship together, like they are independent whatever, you know, and so I'm thinking, yes, this is this is what this is supposed to be. Absolutely yeah, and it's like it it is so genuinely hard to find movies where you see women doing their jobs at all.

Uh So this movie goes above and beyond in that regard to say, sadly, even even these crumbs, we've we've we've got a chart, We've got a chart, and that is progress that Yeah, And then Bernadine has an NBA and again speaking of grad school, didn't get to get it in the first time, but I do have a master's green screen running from Boston University. I hate to bring it up. Yes, yes, you're using that right now. Yeah, thank you. Okay, So Bernardine is the rest of I'll

go through this really quickly. Her next guy is Herbert, who she like spends one night with. He's another married guy she's sleeping in. Dead to me is okay in this movie. And she's the one who burned all of her ex husband stuff for correct, so it's a little it sends mixed messages, burn and then her. The final guy is James played by Wesley Snipe. No, don't clap for him, no, because again, looking back, he was supposed to be like the one good guy in this movie

you got well and that's not true. Gregory Hans too, but like he was supposed to be the good guy in the movie after like so many of these trash men and like, but he's not. He's totally not right. Like he's hitting on you and you gotta die, wife of the crib. He that was bad, No, And you're like but no, no, no, no, reject that impulse. This man is hitting on her with like feel bad for the for the dime spouse, don't feel bad for Wesley Snipes for so for context for for the Wesley Snips character.

He shows up at a you know, out of nowhere, which is how all men in this movie show up. They are just suddenly in frame and taking control of the scene. It's very exciting. But he he shows up and he's talking to Angela Bassett and he is like, yeah, so crazy. My wife is dying. And she's like, oh, do you want to have sex? And he's like yeah, and then they go upstairs and he's like, just so you know, I love my dying wife. PS. She's white, right, It's like, but she's still dying. It's like, I think

the more important party here is that she's dying. She's dying right now. Possibly, I don't know, and I don't care because I'm up in here, in this wholesale room with you. Let's make tonight beautiful. And so Angela Bassa and then Angela Bassa is like, Okay, so she's dying, let's but the difference in spoon while close now she will see like what do you want to do? That

is true. She was gonna go along. She was gonna go go with that if he had been like all right, but then yeah, they end up spooning with all their like yeah, and we're supposed to be like, I can't while they're spooning, Oh girl is back home dying. We've got I've got a lady in Chemo and he's spooning Angela Bassett. Everyone's worse fear Romanic, and then her story ends. The divorce proceedings go through. She wins a ship ton of money and property and property, a lot of stuff.

Yeah forget. Then we've got robbing her. One of her guys is Michael the Submarine Submarine my County Williamson. You know, he is an unsung hero this movie. I mean those of you who have seen it know how hilarious he was and starting to feeding because I mean, she was really trying to make that work, because that's not anybody that you want to be your boyfriend for real, Like, but she was at that point, you know, she's getting over. Michael Troy comes into the picture and it's like couldn't

get worse? Yes, crack, but like let's talk about that, because let's talk about this. I mean, like she rolls up on him doing a line, and then and then, and then Robbin is on the phone with Savannah a k a. Whitney Houston having a conversation about somebody being a crackhead. Whitney Houston is trying to a girl he's a crackhead. It's like, well you would now, I mean, wow, wow, again, I totally missed that the first time around. But like,

time was not kind to that Whitney Houston. It's like, crack is wag basically to Robbin, and I'm like, yes, it's hilarious. It is hilarious. She knew all the crack behavior. Girl, he saw your wallet like she knew. She was speaking from experience and we she I wonder how she was really handling those scenes, like looking back, because that that was hilarious. That was hilarious. But that wasn't even the

funniest part. The funniest part was you know when he shows up drunk, but Barbara Fruit drows fruit at Layla Pishan, who throws it back with perfect aim. By the way, I wish, I wish that that had not been out of frame because I would have loved to see him get hit in the back of the hid in the orange. But leather wearing in the summertime. I mean, that was a classic scene because why did he have on that leather vest in Phoenix? Why do you even own leather

in Phoenix? Like, I just I don't know. And he was picking he in theory, was picking her up because he decided he didn't ask her. He's like, you're gonna meet my mom and my sister today. I'm showing up. I'm drunk and on crack maybe possibly probably, and I'm wearing a leather vest. Get outside, just like, no, I'm good. I'm gonna stay right here on this porch. Thanks. And that is like kind of the closest we get for that character of like standing up for herself. But it's like,

but that sort of just seems like a given. She stands up for herself later, but we'll get to that. Yeah, and yeah, because her story ends with her old boyfriend Russell comes back into the picture and he's all like, I don't want to leave my wife either. They're all these men are married to someone else because they're going to leave, but it's just not the right time. It's never the right time. My kid's birthday of those totally

the right time for me. To come over, slide through on the late night but it's not the right time for me to leave. And then she dumps him once and for all. But she's pregnant with his baby. And again you want to cheer this moment. She's standing up for herself. He's like coming over. She's like, no, you can't come in. He's like, what you reading, Oh, childhood choices? What's that? He's like backing out the war and she's like, yeah, it's yours and I'm keeping it. Again, we can't root

for the Sade chick people. We cannot root for her. Good for you, you're having a baby. You're not going to get another abortion like whatever, But like, yeah, you you were, you were the mistress. Yeah, this is not this is not I mean, yeah, I'm not feeling it. I'm not feeling a happy ending here for you. There's a lot of I mean, it just seems like sort of the movie aims to do this flip of like the three women at the beginning of the movie who were like I need a man end up not with

a man. And then the one woman, Gloria who's like I'm raising my son and I'm giving to everyone, ends up with a man, So they just sort of like flipped the original intention. But in cases like that, it's like, but they're not thinking too hard about it. Angela Basset is gonna get a man just as soon as white women breast cancer there, right, because man is on the way. She has a really sinister, like big sports clock in

her kitchen and I'm like, countdown to death again. There's right, because after you said that letter was like, yeah, keep me posted. Yeah, She's like, you know, I'll just here's my email, just invite me to the funeral. I'm sort of a oh my god a sub tweet too when

I can. It's it's bruttle, It's brut right. And Jamie, as you mentioned, Gloria, she's the only one who ends up with the man, her neighbor Marvin, although before that she has a brief interaction with h Jon's dad, David uh who was like I used to be by but now I'm gay, which he said he changed his mind,

Like oh my god. Right. But you know what though, that part was interesting too because again, like um, thinking back to like that era, you have like a lot of conversation in black culture about like the download phenomenon of black men, and so I was like, oh, this dude is supposed to like, you know, be not typical but like an exemplary of of of this phenomenon. Like

she she didn't have any idea. And then like he ends up coming out to her, you know, because she's trying to keep something going, and he's like, oh, actually I should let you know this is where I'm at now, and it's like okay, and then like at the well we haven't gotten to the birthday party yet, but like you know, they're like lamenting that. Then you know the good men are gay you know, or you know unavailable.

Right there, that whole scene plays very weird where but the birthday scene, well, the birthday the the weird coming out that whole scene, You're just like, I see what you're going for and I respect it. However, everything is

weird there, like don't want you. They even do like he's wearing ear rings like they're sub tweeting the funk out of you, and this seen he also wig but I mean actually that's probably like his real hair, but it was cut like but it's like all this stuff and then he comes out to her in a very white guy adaptation of a story way, and he's like, I was by I changed my mind. Sorry, and she is.

Her original reaction to that is, oh, if you're not attracted to me, like just tell me, and like she she was taking it personally and thought that he was just trying to get out of the situation. He's like, no, I'm gay and I'm leaving, and then he leaves in that sort of it, and then Donald Fazon's reaction to that is even, we can get into that in a moment,

but it's not that. To be clear, we recognize that sexuality is fluid and maybe, but yeah, the way it's handled in this movie is like, oh, that's that's not your intention. But that's like not, that's not what you were trying. It's just it's just a mess. It was in a treat sexuality in this movie. But then she ends up with Marvin, who seems really nice. He did seem nice, I mean Gregory Hunts. He did not seem like the type of person that should have been, you know,

messing over one of these ladies. And his wife is dead. His wife is definitely dead. So he's available, right, She's got and Gloria made sure she got for one one on him like right away, yeah, and then plaid him with soul food and sandwiches, you know, and tell him because women be making food, women be nurturing this. Uh. And you may have noticed that the way I framed all of these storylines was around the men, because the women do not end up on screen together that much.

They're four best friends, but I think they're only on screen together for like twenty ish minutes total. That may be true. Actually, I mean they're at the club together and they're having the birthday party. Yeah, there's like that one random Gratio would have seen in them coming out of church together. That's about a ten seconds. Either. Two of them are at a carnival at one point talking about abortion. You were on a ferris wheel talking about it.

That was two carnival things. About the other one where they were like drunk at that park or wherever they were, I don't know. I'm like, there is a ferris wheel scene. Yeah, that's that's fun. The other one they're at an Ostrich Race. Yeah they're well, I mean again they're in Phoenix, like what are they doing? But they're at They're at an

Ostrich Race. And then Angela Bassett opens the scene by saying this is boring, and then she's like, by the way, I help someone cheat on their wife last night, how do you feel about it? Such a weird scene. The most jarring part of that scene for me is saying, Austrich racing is boring because like, you been given a gift. What do you So that's pretty much the story of the movie. At the very end, it's New Year's Eve again and presumably the following year, but who knows how

much time has passed? And too much it's six years later now she's pregnant. It was likely, it's true. Yeah, they're like, oh, we don't need men, and then we've got a car and friends. First of all, no again, watching this, watching this now? My first thought in that last scene, why then aren't they at Angela Bassett's house in Acapulco? Right, okay, if I'm gonna be spending New Year's with you, but it's I want to be in Acapolca because where are they there? In a lot, They're

still in Phoenix. Still in Phoenix is where they are? Ps. Gloria's got a man now, I'm shocked that she ditched Marvin to be with these chicks. Donald fazas in Spain. That's a whole definitely gone the fase ons like why can't I go to Spain? And I love saying like homophobic slurs. That's his whole character. Oh and also at one point Gloria busting on him getting his dick sucked very jarring. No one Donald's phase on pre braces getting sucked off is not something anyone's ready for. It's just

not I wasn't I I was. I wasn't know. I was like, I was a shocked as Gloria. It was I was like, get out of her, out of his shed? Where does he having in the I was like in the pool house? I guess. I was like, that's a very nice shed that he's getting sucked off. And I guess I don't know, as one does God, what does Phoenix like? Like? Thanks so so, Aaron. You have said

that you know you grew up with this movie. Was you know, an iconic movie for you, But now, as in a all are be watching this in today's era. Tell us about how it's different for you or how just your thoughts on how black women are represented. I mean, I think it speaks to the fact that just the under representation you do, you still don't see you know, these kind of relationships really portrayed in this way on

the big screen. I mean, like think about how excited people were about Girls Trip, you know, I mean, and that movie you know is coming, you know, thirty years later, so people recognize that, you know, because we don't really get this, like any kind of representation like this, and especially because these women were the stars that they were at the time, Like you really were so excited for this movie. But like in retrospect, yeah, these are not people that I really want to root for, I mean,

except for Gloria. Like I did not feel myself rooting for any of them and their storylines this time around. It was just kind of like I literally am looking at each one of them like girl, get it together, like way up? No, Like like yeah, I was literally really just like yelling at the screen at multiple points because I was just like I wanted them to be

making better choices. And also just I was not as willing to put as much blame on some of these men as as I would have been like when I was young, thinking oh, these are great women, like you know, what is you know, what is wrong with these men? It's like no, actually they are making poor choices, like these are not people. Yeah, you shouldn't be with with any of these dudes, but also like why do you

keep picking these trash people? Right? Well, the big thing for me about this movie is I was coming and expecting it to be a movie about black female friendship, and I was like, I can't wait to like just like see them interact on screen, and then the whole movie was is totally framed. They're totally defined by like the men who they're with or who they want to

be with. Every storyline is about the men in their lives, and I was like boring, right, And that's like the most frustrating thing about I mean seeing like a movie that's built around female friendship up being sort of thrown away and like this really lazy writing kind of way of like, well, they're female friends, so we can use that as a conduit to talk about how they consider the men in their lives to be like what to find absolutely like by the time you get to the birthday,

like the living room birthday, seeing like that, you wish that that could have been like most of the movie because like you have like every friend that you need is in that room, right, like somebody that's gonna talk you down from bad choices, somebody that's actually maybe if you're gonna make bad choices, ready to go along with that ship, like let's go, you know, when Bernadine is drunk and ready to call and cuss John out, you know right there right now, that number, you know, and

like you know that one friend that's kind of like neutral and just kind of hanging back to kind of see what happens like that is and they go through like the range of emotions like in that one night, as as girls do when they get together and open them away. Okay, I mean they're they're having a good time, they're crying, you know, they're talk it about me, but

they're also just kind of talking about their lives. And it's like, yes, more of this plea And it's more fun to watch than the nine hundred scenes of one of the characters deciding to be a side check to someone else's marriage, because that is what most of the movie is, or having bassics with somebody who is single.

But those scenes are really funny though. Sex scenes those are and those are like female gay scenes where like there's that scene with Michael or you see the fucking prop flop sweat on his he's character acting the ship. He's like, uh, I love sex, and you're like, oh my god, he's just he's so much I matter how things worked out for him after probably yeah, I bet he was in like he ends up at the club with another woman, a real life let's look him up, right,

I feel like he has two hundred movie credit. But also I don't. I mean, that sex scene was pretty terrible too Windy Houston's face, and that is because he's making like yeah, and she's like, she's like I don't want to go to the zoo or something. She's like, I guess I'm the zookie friend. Yeah. Yeah, I do appreciate how like sex positive this movie is though. That's

a line from the movie. Yeah, very sex positive because they're like at some point every character is like I'm so horny, and the other women are like yeah, and go get some like they are very supportive, never like slut shamie anything like that. Yeah. Well, with that, let's take a quick break, shall we. Let's shall I'll be right back. There's there's that scene with Gloria and the neighbor. The scene where she meets the neighbor is such a horny,

so crazy, there's looking at him like a sandwich. I knew this was an adapted work, but there are some scenes where you can very much feel it because they're like having loud monologues to themselves in front of the other character. You're like, he is right there where she's walking away, and it's like after it, there's a vibe, and then she's going back home and then she's like, I hope he's not watching me walk away, and then turns around. It's like he's like he's four ft away

from you, right right, sas off across lonologue. Can we talk about Bernardine's monologue as she's like throwing away and burning all of John's stuff, Yes, because she's touching on stuff like the man like his expectations of me is that I was gonna like be the background to his foreground. I mean she's talking about that. She's talking about how he didn't want the kids to go to a certain

school because he didn't want the improper influence. She's talking about how she wanted to start a business but he told her. I mean yeah, she's just I mean yeah, she was airing a lot of s on her way to that garage, like with those back and forth trips, it's fully earned. Yeah, or she even like you see his organized closet, You're like, oh no, yes, things are

about to be mismatched. And just how how quickly it happened too, though, I mean, because like it starts off like she's in the bed right, she's miserable, she's crying, gets up, makes a pot of coffee and hits that closet, and fifteen puts the kids on the bus in fifteen minutes later, that's it's a bonfire baby in the driveway, and you're just like and then she's on the couch

watching cartoon. And then later on there's the scene where her husband has just had the kids for a weekend and he brings them back, and they got her facial expression again, Nobody does rage like Angela Bassett, Like the death stare that she has given this dude when he is dropping those kids off, and how she just immediately, just on a dime, goes from that to like being loving mom to these kids as they're coming home, and clearly they're like siding with her and love her so much,

and they're just like dad is trash, all right, then I'm back, but like yeah that. But also another Angela Basset classic is when she busts up in that office when he clears out because she comes in, she's like yelling, and then the first thing she does is slap Kathleen, his mistress across I was. I felt rewarded in that moment. It was very rewarding. Where is that gift like that

should be that is underused? If that is a gift that is out there, and if not, if anybody in here has those kind of skills or capabilities, please go ahead and get that going on Twitter so that I can get to see. I found that moment a little troubling because I think we talked about this on I Have as a white woman or for some other reason.

That's why that's why no race completely aside. We talked about this on our Cruel Intentions episode where women who get wronged by a man by you know, them cheating them. There's a tendency because women are so generally pitted against each other in society, for the one who has cheated on to blame the other woman, and then a lot of the men kind of like get off scott free or not, they're not held as accountable. So I mean, I understand her anger and frustration, and I thought that

that like went up in my head as well. But then it's like she's just as mad, if not angry at And also, I mean, this woman was she was in between her and the husband, and it seems that she has stepped out of the way. We may not even have been there. She should have just stepped to

the right. I mean, like, if we're being honest, like if it had been if it would not have been me, but had it been me, I would have just I don't know, because I mean, you see the tornado coming and you just are sitting and you stand up and start to speak absolutely no, yeah, absolutely not. And then this but when she I mean god, when she finally does light into him and she doesn't hit him, but

I mean her unleashing on him when he's tunging. Oh yeah, by the way, I'm thinking about coming to pick up my kids, and she's like, oh god, you guys, you guys know what she says. She's like, if you have them anywhere near that tramp bitch, and she leans into that with everything that she has. Again, wears her oscar. It was so good. It's it seems like her rage is sort of distributed equally for everyone who's wronging her.

And let me be clear. Let me be clear, there are many white women who should be slapped by black women, any woman who voted for Trump. Basically, it's tricky, I mean. And that comes up again later in the Wesley Snipes scene where it's like a reveal to Angela Bassett that because he says, it's it's just like, I don't know, I'm interested in how you because it's all over the place. If he's like, I'm a civil rights slayer and it's a boy the way his catint for like a professional

black women. You throw that out there and it's like, I'm sorry, I love you, I'm sorry. What what? But then they go upstairs and he's like, remember that dying wife I've told you about. She's white. And then and then Angela Bassett's like, yeah, it's it's it's weird the way they and I read that in the book. That is not how that scene goes, and that's not how

that story goes in the book. The Wesley Snipes character wants to divorce his wife, who his wife and his wife he wants to dive force his dying white wife and like it wasn't working before she got sick, and then she got sick, and then he's like, well, I've gotta, for lack of a better phrase, ride this out, and so in the in the I'm so sorry, and and that's sort of I think is a more effective story choice to be like, the marriage is over, and it was over, but in this version he's like, I love

her deeply and then Angela, which makes Angela Bassett's choice seem bizarre or like her being like, let's funk anyways. But I mean, clearly she was already cool with one offs with Mary Dudes. I mean we saw that, which is crazy because she's so mad at like her husband and that white woman is crazy liked her. I don't know, it's confusing, and a lot of this is I mean, I would hazard to guess adaptation issues from the book to the movie. Maybe maybe somebody whoever I'm forgetting who

wrote this race. Yeah, it was the author of the book, Terry, but a guy but also a white guy, a white guy. What they ended up coming up with for the movie, though, like in some people's minds and making him more endearing because at the time, like I said, I mean, I was like, oh, this is so sad, like you know, if only they'd met, you know, in another lifetime or whatever.

It's like, no, they're meeting in this lifetime and she's dying and and so step out of the Why are you even sitting down next to her order in Hennessy right, Why are you hitting on this woman as your wife actively passes away? I don't know there, but there is there is like a bell Hooks piece written just a few movies after this movie came out, and bell Hooks

does not like this movie. And she she knew very much. Yeah, she but like you were saying, Aaron, before we came out, like she was a full grown you know she was. She wasn't seventeen when this And that's when, like we talked about all the time, Like the movies you see while your brain is still squishy and you're trying to understand the world using the media around you, it shapes your view of the world. Bell Hooks was formed by the time she saw that she was not having it.

She was not having it, and she writes about in her piece that there was a white guy screenwriter actively involved in giving recommendations on how this should be adapted, and so stuff like the stuff that changes markedly from the book, like the Wesley Snipe stuff is like at the suggestion and push of some rando like Hollywood white guy imagine you know. Yeah, so adaptation, it's adaptations are fucked. Show me a good adaptation. Doubt doubt that's true, but

doubt it was. I mean, John, but they just let John Patrick Shanley go for it. Check out John Patrick Shanley's Twitter. It's fucking weird. He posted the selfie before he goes to bed. He's like, good night. I don't know. Anyways, Anyways, this movie was a box office success. It opened a number one. Again, black women were they were ready for. This movie was a critical like mixed review. So because

Angelo Bassett, but also Whitney Houston. She can sing other final thoughts or there was the other stuff you wanted to I mean, like I said, the only thing that was better than this movie for me at that time was the soundtrack, which Frankly Steel holds up right. I mean, baby Face, you know, the King of arm nineties R

and B. You know, he produced it. But all of the songs were by black women, and so I mean I'm talking about obviously Whitney gets to be on the soundtrack, but I mean you had Brandy, you had a Wretha Shaka Khan TLC. I mean like and Mary J. Blige. Yes, I mean it was a soundtrack for the Ages, like for real. And I'm not going to start singing along here right now. We can if you want to, but I mean, like seriously, like not not exactly if I've done,

not gonna cry karaoke before. It's a lot, it's emotional. The one thing that we didn't quite hit on was Donald Fazon's reaction to finding out his father is gay. Like it it is a weird, it is not good. Yeah, Basically, what happens is Gloria accidentally out David and she realizes that she's made a mistake. To be fair, she's shocked because she just saw Donald Fazon getting sucked off in

a shed pool house. So you're right, you're right. And then his reaction is extremely bizarre because he uses a series of homophobic slurs and then says it's all the same thing, right, he doesn't totally minimize it, And then it's like, well Lisa didn't running the family. Remember when you saw me getting sucked up? Mom? I was like, why is this the way this goes? Yeah? So and then that never gets cleaned up or resolved or whatever I mean, because like that's just it. Never he just

gets to go to Spain. Like that's how that ends. So the I mean, the way this movie deals with queerness is tooth thumbs down is not good. And I would argue that there's a stylist character in Gloria's salon who has queer coded because gay men can only be stylists, as we see in every movie ever. But I will I mean, like the gay black beaut you know, man who's doing hair is very real and shout out to all the ones that I've had in my life that have kept me late. Um, I appreciate them now. I mean,

was he was he over the top of dramatic? Maybe? But also do I know some black man doing hair who are like absolutely absolutely so maybe I don't know if they appreciated being seen in this film or not. Obviously he's not representative all of all gay black men, you know what I mean. So it's weird because it's like seeing queer characters in this movie. Seeing queer characters in movies in a way that isn't like they're a

punchline is something. It's something in the right direction, but it just doesn't quite it doesn't go there, and it doesn't fully realize this because he is like messy and he's the one who like tells Bernardine's business to like the rest of the girls. And you know, it's like it's imagined. A movie is just not perfect. Right. My last thing was I like this scene. This is just a straight thought. I like the scene where Bernadine gets mad and cuts her own hair because Gloria won't do it,

baldest woman in charge. That was yes, charge holds trip. Yeah, you know when when a woman chops her hair off watch out? Yeah, I mean, and get out of the way. Get ready, she's going to war, right, yeah? No for real? Yeah, all right, I think that it does this movie pass the Bechdel test. A couple of very brief, like two line exchanges. Yeah, seventeen year old Aaron would have sit absolutely yeah, grown ass Errand says, I don't know. Well, let me let me make a case for it. Savannah

at one point says nice house Bernadine. Bernadine says, you know what, you know what, Kaitlin, you are really reaching right now, you are really reaching. Okay, she responds at five dollars, you can have it. Then they talk about John for a few minutes, right, because this is a conversation that's happening as her home video footage just playing

in the background. Yes, so that negates that. Next true, Robin and Gloria have a brief conversation about manicures and Robin's job because she because she's like blowing off work to maybe get a manicure to please a man. Probably Gloria was also going to charge her by the finger for that polish. So I feel like that one passes. I don't I don't know that. It's one of those movies though that, like however many things we break down,

Like the subtext of the whole movie is men. So it's like it just gets harder as the longer we do this podcast, we're just like the subtext of every of the world is men. Apparently, so special passes, damn test Yeah, because yeah, I mean I was even thinking about, like remember when Savannah Coss her mom and like her mom is talking about her like financial situation. Yeah, I'm reaching. It's I mean, I think name the mom's name, first name. I don't think maybe that one. I don't think I

didn't care like moms. I think it all pass on the bectal test. Mom, I don't know. I just Bernadine and her daughter, who is named Nika talk about the words. Yes, they do the word freakfically I think. I mean, I think this movie does pass the vectial test a couple of times, but I mean it's one of those things where it's like, given the fact that the marketing of this of this movie was like for women, like for black women, and this is their friendship, it should pass

way more than it does. Yeah, so I mean it passes, but not as much as it or any movie with four female leads should shall be raid on our nipple scale, let's do it. So in terms of like, I love that there's a movie that's representative of four strong black women who yes, do have many lapses and judgment throughout the film, But because the movie isn't really the core

of the movie isn't so much about their friendship. It's more about how these women are relating to men and having relationships with men, and even when the women are together, they're almost exclusively talking about men. So that is disappointing. And there are like kind of those brief moments of feminism where you know, Bernadine's like, I'm tired of like not being able to pursue my own thing. I have an MBA, damn it, Like I want to open a

catering business. But then she spends the rest of the movie trying to have sex with married men, kind of show her focusing on her caterer. That's where I thought the story was going with her, but like that doesn't even come up because his wife is dying, Like you're shaking him down for alimony when you could be making that cater in business. Hopefully she invests that one point five million dollars in that business, so one can hope. But yeah, so representation wise, because there are so few

movies with an all black cast like this. Uh, the fact that it was financially successful that people got to go see it is great. But the stories and while the characters are like distinguishable, and you know, we see representation of successful black women, which is unfortunately a rare thing in mainstream movies. They are entirely framed around the men in their lives and should have been more about their friendship. I think, yeah, that success was limited because

they hadn't found love. Right. Yeah, So I'm gonna give it. I'll give it a three nips. Well, right, I'm wrong, right, two? Okay, I can crowdsource your opinion. Y'all see it, y'all see it now. Look I've easily influenced. Uh. So what I meant to say, I'm going to give it two and a half nipples. This is my own thinking everyone's uh, and I will give one to Angela Bassett, one to

Whitney Houston's singing voice and the soundtrack. Uh, and my half nipple will go to Gloria and Robin there in their friendship that we barely see you eron, what do you say? M hmm. Yeah, I'm gonna go with two nipples. One for Angela Bassett because I mean, she was just everything in this movie, probably the best thing to meet about this movie. And then one for Gloria because again she's the only one that seems to have like a positive you know, outcome by the end. So yeah, that

that's all the nipples I have for this movie. I'll go, I'll go two and a half and just to tying onto what everyone is saying, movies that are supposed to be about female friendship that secretly aren't about female friendship and are about the men and how they define their lives are insidious and evil and don't do that. Come on, uh, send given one to Angela, one to Gloria, and half to that guy's dying wife. Give her a fucking break. Uh. All right, Aaron, thank you so much for being here.

We are so thank you. Guys. Where can we find you online? Can we find your work? So? I am on Twitter very easy at e marvelous, and I am on all my stories are on ap news dot com. Alright, and you can find us on beckdel Cast across all your platforms. Get t shirts, blah blah blah. There's a

show coming in. We love you so much. Give it up for Kate Bamford and everyone, and give it up for yours elve Hey everyone, it's Caitlin on behalf of Jamie and I. We just wanted to give another shout out to Kate Bamford and everyone at the Good Good Comedy Theater. Thank you so much for having us there and for letting us do our live show. We had so much fun and to listeners, if you're ever in Philadelphia, go and check that theater out. It's a great comedy

venue with a lot of great shows. Thank you against so much to our guest, Aaron Haynes Whack. She was so awesome and we had so much fun talking to her. And then just the usual stuff. Quick reminder about our West Coast tour. We still have tickets for our San Francisco show. On January we are covering the Breakfast Club.

We have tickets to our show in Portland on January we are covering Fight Club for that show, and then on January in Seattle, Jamie and I are going to be doing a stand up show and tickets to all of those shows are on our website. So if you go to back toelcast dot com and click on the live appearances tub, you'll be able to find all the

links to get tickets to those shows. And then also on our website is the link to our merch store, or you could just go to t public dot com slash the backtel Cast and that's where you'll find all of our t shirts are sweatshirts are stickers and phone cases, mugs, we've got pillows even whatever your little heart desires. Uh. And then be on the lookout for some new designs in the new year. Wow. And then, as always, you can um follow us on social media at spectrol Cast.

Please rate and review us on iTunes and give us a little five star or a five nipple rating because that helps us out a lot. And then we just wanted to say, from both of us, thank you so much to you our listeners, for your ongoing support. It's been a wild year, but you know we've really enjoyed communicating with you online and hearing your suggestions for episodes and everything like that. So thanks again and a happy new year, and may all your new year's wishes come true. All right bye,