Unpregnant

still cry. But we still also cry, you know, because we're laughing so hard. Yeah. Sorry, Uh, difficult week. You know, we're doing our best. Uh. I hope everyone is doing well. We have been wanting to do this episode for a while, but um, we'recovering the movie argument. You know, you clicked on, you clicked the episode, you pressed play. That's on you. But we we've been wanting to do this episode since this movie came out, but we kind of fast tracked

it for this week for obvious reasons. If you're listening to this at a later time, we are recording this the week that UM the Supreme Court intention to potentially, uh remove the right to abortion has been leaked just to be totally clear about what exactly is going on. It's very common knowledge, but we want to just be sure the Supreme Court is poised to make this decision about abortion on whether it's protected by the Constitution or not. This was a draft of a February Supreme Court opinion.

It was leaked, and it's sort of would lead you to believe that the Court is going to be overturning Roe v. Wade Um, which made abortion legal nationwide back in the seventies. Basically, they're trying to make abortion unconstitutional and rolled back fifty years of progress. There have been

protests this week. There's been a huge call to action to donate to local abortion funds UM, which we will you know, right right at the top, we're going to be linking to resources UM in the description of this episode. We are also pledging a portion of our Patreon income this month. UM. Also, something that I learned this week is that Planned Parenthood, while a wonderful organization, is not the fastest way to get money to local abortion clinics,

and it is more efficient to donate directly. So that so we'll be linking to that um, especially in states where abortion is more difficult to access. Uh, God fucking damnit. We'll talk about it. But but this is this is the Unpregnant episode, and this is the Bechtel Cast. But what the heck is the Bectel Cast? Caitlin, I simply I forget. It's our podcasts, in which we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Tests simply

as a jumping off point. The Bechtel Test, of course, being a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are many versions of the test, but the one that we currently use is as follows. There must be two characters of a marginalized gender with names who speak to each other, and their conversation has to be about something other than a man for two or more lines of dialogue, and ideally

that exchange of dialogue is narratively impactful. Not going to be a problem today because we are covering the movie Unpregnant. It is a recent movie. It came in on HBO. Max Um, So, Caitlin, do you have what was your history with this movie? I did see it right when it came out, because there was quite a bit of

buzz about it. It was released in I think September, and a lot of listeners were like, hey, the Bechtel Cast should cover this, and we're like, okay, we'll put it on the list our list of eight million things to cover. But so I did. I did see it. Um, I'll be honest, I didn't like it that much. I think that it's doing some really good things and other things,

the execution is weird. So from a storytelling standpoint, from a like Bechtel Cast standpoint, you know, there's there's something in your in your pro life, and of course I am anti choice, so that I'm sure made it a difficult watch for you, certainly certainly. Um No, Like I think it's it's a really good premise with execution that misses the mark in some regards. But I think maybe the reason that we kind of didn't cover it right away is that it wasn't necessarily the most our favorite

our favorite, um. But it is a good conduit by which we can discuss current events, so that's why we are covering it. Now. What is your relationship with it, Jamie? Uh? Literally identical so it when I came out due to the buzz due to the listener interest. Also that was like a little all over the place it did, I mean maybe fall in love with both of the lead actors at this movie. Haley Richardson and Barbie fare are so fun in this movie. I feel like they are able to sell a lot of stuff that is not

Like just I don't know. The pacing of this movie. We we both think is weird, but it's not really why we're here to talk about it, even though we'll probably keep pointing it out because we're bitches. Ah. But yeah, no, I was excited to see this movie come up. I'm very glad it exists because I mean, just in general, there is a lot lacking when it comes to the representation of abortion in media in general, which we've discussed

here and there on the show. Yeah extensively. We've we covered an Obvious Child on The Matrian a couple of years ago. At this point, I don't really fully remember our discussion around it, but I do remember that movie

is not my favorite. Like, I don't know, but there but there's so few options because abortion movies are so often spun as tragedy porn, and like, I really appreciate that, and you appreciate it when it came out two years ago, that this movie it's an abortion romp while still hitting all the appropriate you know points. I feel like it treats the subject matter very respectfully. Right, it's a teen road trip abortion romp. Look, I would be down for

another abortion romp. Same. Yeah, it's this movie is all over the place, but yeah, as far as what it's trying to do, I think it accomplishes the goal. The performances are fun, uh, and then we got a lot of other stuff to talk about. But that's why we recovering this movie. It's I mean truly, I think for our listeners, nothing that you're not familiar with already in terms of like why this is so horrible and why people with uterus as having less rights than two generations

prior than them is just absolutely fucked beyond belief. But I mean, the one thing that this movie doesn't hit on that, I mean, it's not anyone movies responsibility to hit on everything, but I do think it's an important point to make in this conversation of um because this is a movie about a teenage girl an underage girl,

which is relevant to the law. Uh here is you know, struggling to get access to an abortion without parental consent with extremely religious parents who probably would not want to do that. But I think it's important to remember and point out that, um, the people who primarily suffer when abortion is outlawed are low income people. Yeah, I guess it becomes very much an issue that's divided among class

and race lines. And the further marginalized you are by American society, the less likely it is you will have access to uh safe abortion. So it affects everyone, but it also disproportionately affects marginalized people, low income, people of color, cross class and race lines, and it Yeah, there's well, we'll also link to resources on that. That's I think just one of the one of the few important points

about abortion that this movie didn't completely skip. Yes, yeah, uh so I just want to put that right at the top, and I think I'm just gonna I'm just gonna read it because that it Unfortunately, this Linda West quote goes viral every couple of months when they try to repeal Roe v. Wade every couple of months, but it is I mean Linda West is brilliant, and I just want to read it here before we get into uh duncan on the movie, which is what we're good at. Uh So, this is Lyndy West on The Daily Show

a couple of years ago. I believe she says this quote. Anti choice people are not trying to stop abortion. They're trying to legislate who can and cannot have abortions because conservative politicians, their wives and mistresses and daughters are always going to be able to get an abortion somewhere. All criminalizing abortion will do is keep people trapped in poverty for generations. That's the goal. And if it wasn't the goal, they would spend their time and money on comprehensive sex education,

free birth control, and free contraception. Unquote. Yeah, no, notes, and I'm upset. It's a very upsetting time in the world. Should I recap I'm pregnant? Yeah, all right. We open on Veronica played by Hailey lou Richardson. She is taking a pregnancy test in the bathroom at her high school. A girl walks into the bathroom while this is happening. This girl is Bailey played by Barbie Ferrara. We learn that Veronica and Bailey used to be best friends but

had a falling out at some point. The test turns out to be positive. Veronica is pregnant or she I was gonna say, this movie is even though we're like even in the depths of Hell. The movie is called ant it is called on. That's just a fact. It was embarrassing. I mean, and I didn't want it because it is like, it's a movie that you want to root for, but there it was embarrassing that literally all the marketing materials were misspelled. It's not a good look.

It's not a good look. Everyone the movie is called they're saying it wrong. The whole movie they messed up spelled wrong on the poster. I bet it spelled wrong. I like, hello, yeah, why didn't you call us to consult because that would have been our only note. Exactly fine, and replace prag with greg Thank you. That scene where they're on the ride at the carnival and Veronica is dreaming I'm pregnant, she kept messing that line read up.

She should have been screaming I'm gregnant. I was like, don't we have another take of that where she's saying the line correctly. It's it's gay and gregnant. We're gay and we're gregnant. But yeah, I mean alliteration that scenes should have been really hilarious and empowering, but I couldn't get past the distraction of of the of the line being said wrong over and of her Yeah. All right, Well, so she is confirmed to be gregnant. Apparently the condoms

she used with her boyfriend, Kevin we're not effective. Veronica is freaking out. She goes home and researches getting an abortion and learns that because she's in Missouri and she's under eighteen I believe she's seventeen, she would need her parents permission to have an abortion, which she can't ask

for because her parents are conservative and religious. The closest place where she would not need parental consent as a minor to get an abortion is Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is a roughly fifteen hour drive from where she lives. I believe this is all um accurate. So far, so good? Yeah, sadly, Yeah. Unfortunately, Veronica packs a bag and tells her mom that she's

going to spend the weekend with her friends studying. She goes to her friend's place, but it turns out that someone had found her pregnancy test at school in the dumpster, and all of her friends are speculating on who it belongs to. So Veronica, realizing her friends are going to be very judge, decides not to tell them that it's her who is pregnant. She sorry, gregnant, Yeah, I'm so sorry.

He's not like Hanley Richardson. It's embarrassing. She does tell her boy friend Kevin, and he responds by asking her to marry him, and then reveals that around a month ago, after they were done having sex, he noticed that the condom had broken, but didn't tell her. She's very upset by this and storms out, Yeah parts parts of this scene work for me. Others I'm like, what is going on at this? Definitely not in Olive Garden. Uh okay.

So side note, Jamie and I and our friend Bryant are in a group chat called all of Garden Friends, and as we speak at this very moment, Bryant is texting us from the Olive Gorden Friends group chat, probably asking us to go to Alive Garden. I'm guessing he's trying to get us. It's even more embarrassing he's trying to get us to join his amc A List entourage, which I will, which I'm I'm literally doing it right now. Is God. Our lives are quite frankly embarrassing, but we're

really good at it. Okay. So then Veronica goes to Bailey and asks if she will drive Veronica to Albuquerque. Bailey agrees. They leave that night. That was one of my favorite moments in the entire movie. Barbie Fera is so funny and charming where she's that thing where she slams the door in her face and then she opens the door again and she's like, I was kidding, I do not have anything going on right. It's so funny.

I love her very good. So they set off. They stop at a pawn shop so that Veronica can pawn the engagement ring that Kevin gave her, but he shows up because he was following her. Yeah, because he's a stalker. But it's a joke. But it's not that you're just like, hello, what Kevin character is all over the place. Anyways, it's, uh, we need to talk about Kevin and we will we Wow, Wow,

we do need to talk about Kevin. I'm gonna also someday we're going to have to cover a Kevin Smith movie, and then and then we're really going to need to talk about Kevin. Oh my gosh, there's going to come a day when we're gonna need to talk about Kevin who. Well, we're the other Kevin's Kevin Costner movie to talk about that Kevin passed. I hate him so much. He's like my least favorite Hollywood figure. Who the Kevin. I like Kevin Klein. I like Kevin Vinkin is good. A Fish

called Wanda is a fun movie. We don't need to talk about that, Kevin, but but I would be happy to sure. Anyways, Kevin's sorry an important aspect of the episode. Yeah, alright, So Kevin was stalking Veronica, but they get rid of him and continue on their way. Along the way, Veronica and Bailey start to bond and rekindle their friendship a bit, but Bailey also judges Veronica for the person she's become. She's become this kind of like sheeple carbon copy of

all the popular girls that she's friends with. The classic It's you know that thing that happens in every movie, right where one change but one is a computer video game. One's a video game, and one's a book and that's not cool. And you changed because Star Trek and I was like, all right, now we're talking. Now we're talking. She's like, we used to speak cling on together, and now we don't speak cling on together because you're too busy to do your homework. Question Mark Rict? Anyways, who knows?

Who knows? The next morning, they set off again, a bit behind schedule. They make a pit stop for some food and Veronica reveals that she hasn't made an appointment yet to get the abortion. Bailey reveals that the car they're driving she's ole from her mom's boyfriend, and the cops are following them because of this stolen vehicle, so

they have to bail and abandon the car. But some friends that they met at the diner where they stopped, um, yeah, they meet when he starts sexually harassing them, but then he quickly becomes a hero and their friend. There's a whole thing to talk about with this character. But this guy named Rod and his friends kind of swoop in and give them a ride to these fair grounds that are near a bus stop. There at the fair slash Derby Center, they meet Kiarra Matthews, who is this Derby

racer lady who Bailey develops an instant crush on. Bailey comes out to Veronica. There's a discussion to be had about this whole situation, but um, they to Carnival Ride and scream about how they are gay and gregnant. But then again Hayley Richardson gets the line wrong. Then this married couple Kate and Mark played by Sugar Lynde Beard and breck and Meyer. You're like, what this is. There's this suspension of disbelief you have to do from this

point onward. It's a road trip movie. But it's just like, wow, We're yeah, they really they really take it to I think the second they're like ditch a car at a diner in Texas, You're just like, all right, well, I guess the movie. The part of the movie that made sense to be has ended. It's ceased to exist. This Honestly, this script felt like Also there's five credited writers, which is usually indication that, like, you know, there's a lot

of ideas and inconsistencies and things all mashed together. This felt like a second draft of a script, and it needed like a fourth or fifth draft. So and it's abover because it's a lot of a lot of good writers, including Jennifer Cayton Robinson, who wrote Someone Great. She also is a credited writer on upcoming thor Love and Thunder. Maybe they weren't given enough time question mark. I read.

I read that the director Rachel Lie Goldenberg, who was also a creditive writer, um that this movie was made on a very very very tight turnaround. It shows you're so mean. I am mean, but I'm so mean about this.

Let me defend myself here. I think a fun romp like road trip romp about girls trying to access an abortion is such a great premise and if executed well, it could have it could be a movie that, like people want to revisit over and over for years to come because there's a lot of value in a very

good movie that also makes an important statement. But if a movie is just sort of like executed not that well and it's not gonna like, it doesn't really stand a chance of being like a cultural touchstone, when a movie like this should be a cultural touchstone, you know. But that's a lot of pressure to put on one movie just because it's about abortion. Fair I do believe that there's better movies to come that can take a concept like this and hopefully have the time and money

to make a meal of it. Yeah, because it does like, at some point just take a turn for the bizarre in a way that does feel like Pineapple Expressie, I guess where you're just or like hangovery, where you're like, Okay, they're just this is just like we're going from set piece to set piece and where there's gonna be a lot of character actors and there's gonna be a lot of really dangerous crimes that are supposed to be funny,

and you know, I don't know. Yeah, once the once the car thing happens, I'm just like, oh, this is not the grounded indeed road trip be I thought I was watching, right, I still haven't seen Never rarely sometimes always. I think that might be a more grounded and probably less like fun tonally, but just like a more grounded, probably better executed version of this premise. But I again cannot really speak to it because I have not seen it. But we should consider covering that one at some point too.

We should. Hey, I mean they're they're you know, they'll be they'll be back for our rights. So there's always going to be there. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, don't you worry. It's it's Oh sorry if we sound weird today. Uh sorry, it's not great. It's not our fault. Also that I will I will say one of my least favorite things about this movie is the tagline, which is She's a taype A without a Plan. B. I was like, I mean,

it's not the worst, but I don't hate it. I She's a taipe without a plan V. It's like, but they didn't spell ungregnant, right, Yeah? What um mistakes? Breckon Meyer Commire and his wife. Breckon Meyer approaches you at a county fair in Texas, w y d start in his car. He's like, hey, I overheard that you need a ride to New Mexico. We're headed there, and they offer Bailey and Veronica a ride, which they accept, but before they head off, Bailey and Kira meet up at

the fair. They kiss, yeah, and then Veronica and Bailey leave with this married couple who have a baby. So they seem harmless. That's why they, you know, accept the ride. This ride from strangers. But this couple turns out to be these anti choice crusaders who had actually overheard them talking about Veronica getting an abortion and making the appointment, which another suspension of disbelief, saying that I'm just like,

how did they hear? What? No? Anyway, so then they kind of abduct Veronica and Bailey, but it's like funny abduction. It's it's so wild and zany. They steal the couple's SUV and escape, but Breck and Meyer chases them in their scary anti abortion RV. They managed to get away and they head to a nearby town and find this guy Bob played by June Carlo Esposito. Yeah, so you're like, oh, we're just we're just going there, like okay, Breck and Meyer tapping him out. Let's tap jan Carlos Busito in like,

it's just like cars. It is like a character actor relay race at some point, Yeah, truly. Yeah. Bob owns a limousine service and he takes them the rest of the way to Albuquerque, but on the way, Veronica and Bailey get in a fight because Veronica said some shitty things about Bailey to her friends on the phone that Bailey overhears. So Bailey storms off, but Veronica tracks her down again. Turns out Bailey had gone to her dad's plant shop in Albuquerque because she wants to reconnect with him,

but he blows Bailey off. Allah Kim Cattrell blowing Britney Spears off in Crossroads. Hello, I okay, I did not thank you thank you for the Crossroads representation. I literally okay. So fun fact about me. I do work with mostly men at my day job, you know, and that's brave of me. And I tried to contextualize something I was pitching for an outline the other day in the context of Crossroads, and how did that go? They They were like, wait, it's our favorite movie. We love it so much. Why

isn't it easier to access? Uh? Shanda's early work is so underrated? They all said that. In unit said they were like, isn't that a store anyway? Isn't that a thrift shop? Alright, dude rock Anyways. So Bailey is trying to reconnect with her dad, but he's being an asshole. So Veronica calls him out, tells him out how awesome Bailey is, and then she tastes him. She sure. Then they go the rest of the way to the clinic, where I'm just glad they used the taser because it

was like a Chekhov's taser situation. It was a Chekhovs tasers certainly, and that's how they decided to use it. Good for them. Um. They go the rest of the way to the clinic, where Kevin, Veronica's boyfriend, has shown up again. She breaks up with him once and for all, and then Veronica has her abortion. It all goes well, but they need to get back home, so Veronica has to call her mom, who arranges for them to fly back to Missouri. When Veronica gets home, she and her

mom have a talk. Her mom is disappointed that Veronica had an abortion, but she still loves and supports her. And then the next day at school, Veronica tells her friends that it was her pregnancy test and then she ditches them to sit with Bailey at lunch. The end, who ungregnant? And with that, We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be back after these I feel like Robert products and Services products and we're back. We are back,

all right. So I guess it probably makes the most sense to start by talking about how this movie treats the subject of abortion. Um, true, true, Yeah, Because I mean, the plot of the movie hinges on the fact that access to abortion is often limited because our society does not like it when people with uterus is have bodily autonomy. So the movie becomes commentary on how unjust and ridiculous and harmful limited access. It's yes, um, one thing that

I liked about. So again, I think my my biggest criticism of how this movie handles the topic of abortion is it makes just no reference to what we're talking about earlier, of how people with verses who are marginalized by race and class tend to be disproportionately affected by

this issue. Something that even if Hayley Richardson is the protagonist of this movie, even though you would argue she's not like the best candidate for it, but even if she is, like there was room in the story for that, Like you could cut so many things in favor of finding a way to make that very important point. There are other areas that I thought the movie was more effective on. UM. I always get. I mean, we've talked

about this. Anytime there's a movie about teen girls, they have to be like middle to upper middle class or we'll we'll simply die. This happens with very little exception. We do see that Bailey's character is being raised by a single mom, you know, uh, and that becomes important to her story. But still, in general, this is like a middle class story, and you know, when Bailey does need to be built up by her parents financially, it's not a problem. It's more of a beliefs issue, which

is something I thought was good. We're like in the character of oh, sorry I met Veronica, not Bailey, It's sorry, we understood losing my rights over here, give me a brain, um. But I did like that in one character, the story was able to incorporate how she is struggling to access abortion because of where she lives and because of the laws of where she lives, and what an absurd distance and this is like all true that an underage person would need to go to to get an abortion without

the consent of their parents. I thought at that point was like they really hammer it home. And that scene on the train tracks where she's basically giving like a speech to the Senate, right, but it's effective, Like for you know, I wish I had heard stuff like that when I was a teenager. Like you can argue it's a little overwrought, but for what it is, I'm like it's all effective, um, and also it manages you, um, kind of tie in the theme of parents that would

not consent and having to navigate that. And I thought, you know, for all the weirdness that happens in the trip, I thought that that worked of like Veronica, Um, even though she needs help getting back home, she knows that she needs to get there and get her abortion before her parents can be involved, and it has to be like the whole story is driven by her desire to get an abortion and not design whatever she she wants

to get an abortion. She does. It's the right choice for her, and her parents just can't be involved because of their beliefs. So yeah, I thought it managed to get a lot of common issues with abortion access in but also missed some glaring, glaring ones. Yeah, exactly right, because it's like, yes, Ronica has to travel close to three hundred miles to be able to access an abortion, but the movie does feel like it kind of reeks with white privilege that the movie does not interrogate anyway. Uh,

money is not really an obstacle for her. She starts out with I think a thousand dollars and then gets an additional hundred after pawning the ring. The ring was such a contrivance. I was so annoyed by the ring. I was like, what's happening? But yeah, I mean, it's like unequivocally true that black and Hispanic people are most affected if Roe v. Wade is overturned, and that is just not a space that is made in the movie.

Certainly not. However, I would say that the way the movie handles other aspects of abortion I thought or generally very positive and handled well in the sense that when Veronica finally does get to the clinic to have the abortion, the movie like walks you through via voiceover and visuals

what one can expect from the procedure. You know, It's like you change into the gown, you get the vaginal ultrasound, They'll draw some blood, They'll hook you up to an i V. You'll sit in a waiting room with other people who are waiting for the same procedure. You go in for surgery. The athesiologists will put you under. The doctor will insert a wand to remove the fetus. It will be done in ten minutes. You wake up in

the recovery room. Like walking through someone step by step, especially someone who's never had an abortion, or like a teenager who is maybe terrified at the idea of it because there's so much misinformation out there and so much rhetoric about how evil and awful and scary and violent

and murderous abortion is that the right perpetuates. So like if a teen is seeing this, or like just any young person or a teen's parents too, I mean, I really do think like there's been so much generational misinformation about abortions where I know, like in conversations I've had with older women and older people in general in my life that even though they are pro choice, I think that they have some anxiety around what abortion entails that

is based on like fearmongering from their generation, from when Roe V. Wade was passed the first time, you know. And so yeah, I think that like truly anyone could benefit from watching that. And I have a quote from the director here because I thought that, yeah, that part was obviously it's like the most important part of the movie, um and and it seems like they took a lot

of care with it. So the director, Rachel Lee Goldenberg, had this to say in an interview with a Word Daily dot Com scholarly Journal, Yeah, okay, Awards Daily dot Com. She has a quote, I've had an abortion, but I had a pill abortion. This was new information to me, which is wild. I had this moment where I knew I wanted to do something special when I came on board.

It wasn't fully fleshed out in the script yet. I went with my writing partner on a tour of planned parenthood in Los Angeles and asked the nurses to walk us through it. It made me realize how much he didn't know, and that fascinated me. It struck me that in the moment, we couldn't spend that much time with this young woman and sent her behind a wall. It feels like she has come to this place where she has said the word abortion and she's confident in her choice.

So what do we have to be a shamed about now? As an audience, we should be on this journey with her. As I was going through all the rooms, I had no idea there were so many I should show people that most importantly, it comes from a character place and this is what Veronica is going through unquote. So I like, that's, uh, that's lovely because that's like I think that you know, even even people who support the right to abortion don't necessarily know what it entails. And I would include myself

in that in certain respects. So good scene, Yeah, can I found it informative and and helpful and esthetically pleasing. It's it's pretty, it's calm, it's you know, the voiceover is very calming. Yeah, just representation on screen of an abortion taking place that isn't like scary, that isn't a character panicking and freaking out. I'm reminded of that scene from Blue Valentine that we discussed recently where the character seems in pain and then freaks out and then stops

the abortion mid procedure. So I just I appreciate just showing an abortion as a medical procedure that is quick and not necessarily a horribly dramatic experience. And I feel like it it kind of without even having to. But that speaks to the point of, like how important it is to have access to safe abortions too, because Veronica has to travel, you know, a thousand miles to have a safe abortion that her parents don't have to consent to,

which should not be the case. I mean, she states it very on the nose and broadly and that scene in the train tracks where it's like, why do I need my parents permission to get an abortion? But I don't need my parents permission to have a GREG, to to shove a GREG through my bodily canals, et cetera. Um. Um, But like seeing seeing um, seeing her get a safe abortion that she's you know, very comfortable with, which is I think yet another thing that Blue Valentine funked up.

And and we've been hearing that point a lot this week, and it's something we've heard in the past, because it is true that, you know, abortion being made illegal or far more difficult to access is not going to end abortions. It's just going to make them less safe for people who need them. So um, yeah, I think seeing her finally get access to a safe abortion that she is you know, there's there's never and I think that that's like smart writing as well, where she's never unwavering on

her on what she knows is the right decision for her. Yes, it's just all the other stuff that is weird, Right, It's like everything is surrounding this specific abortion for this specific character I think is handled well. The lead up to it. They managed to work in some important statistic into the dialogue. I thought you're talking about the weird stuff they do, like the you know they say like at the fair, They're like, it's simply a medical procedure

one and four. You know, they say women, I would say, people with you terses have an abortion. You know. Breck and Meyer is like, did you know that having an abortion will reduce your chances of getting pregnant later on? And Veronika is like, no, that is completely false. So and then Breck and Mera went, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'll leave now. Um. So, there's like some good facts and stats about abortions that they work into the dialogue in sometimes clunky ways, other

times more seamless ways. It feels a little edge detainment. At times. The info is good, right, right, And then the aftermath of the abortion, where you know, Verona comes out with a spring in her step. She she seems to be feeling well. She tells Bailey that she feels relieved. She tells her mom later on, like, I know I'm supposed to probably feel bad about this abortion, but I

don't feel bad at all. I know that I made the right choice for me, and even though her mom says, well, I'm disappointed, like, Veronica never apologizes or kind of wavers in her feelings of this was definitely the right choice for me. So to have all of that represented on screen is great and I think the movies strongest element.

I agree, I agree, and I did um. I was also interested to read in that same interview with the director rachel Leie Goldenberg, that there were multiple options of how to kind of land the plane on Veronica's relationship with their mom at the end of the movie. I do kind of I think, for what the movie is and what the tone of the movie is, I like where it landed because it felt a little soapy, but

without being like completely unrealistic. Because when she got home, I was like, it would be weird to me if the mom was just I mean, it would be great in the life of this fictional character if her mom was like, it's totally okay, I totally accept you, like that is what you would want as a teenager. But I like that it was it felt more grounded in a way that the vast majority of the movie doesn't wear. Her mom says, I think that the line is something

like I would not have made that choice. That is not the choice that your sister made, because we learned at the beginning that her sister also um had a child relatively young, and it just sounds like the mom is, you know, kind of starting a journey. I would hope towards being able to respect a person's right to choose what to do with they're fucking body, um, and I would hope that that is something that like, I think that that's a useful scene potentially for for older people

to see. Yeah, so I I kind of thought that was cool choice. Yeah, I think it at tracked For me, it played pretty realistic in a movie that often abandons realism. The whole second act is like it takes place on a different planet, but then it comes back to the planet. I have complicated feelings about it because on one hand, I like that this movie is totally very light and

a romp. Yes, not to say that like getting an abortion is a fun romp, but I think that this movie's lighthearted tone helps take away a lot of the scariness and you know, apprehension that some people might feel around getting an abortion. But there's a lot of instances where the movie gets very cartoonish in a way that I had difficulties suspending my disbelief for It's so the second act of this movie is so weird and all

over the place. Yeah, did you have anything else to sort of talk about about the fairly grounded third act of the movie, Because I don't think we can get into the we can get into the fun stuff. Now, sure, let's let's take a quick break and then dive in and we're back. Uh yeah, where would you like to start? I said, the fun stuff? It's not also not there. There is some stuff that I would say. I would say the whole breck and Meyer portion of the movie, Like,

I can't even get mad about it. I'm just like that, what a weird way to frame an abduction, Like it's so goofy that I'm I don't, I can't in good faith be like that's bad for the use of the world. And it's like I just think it's just like kind of weirdly written, and like why, Yeah, it's like all all well and good. It makes sense that they're traveling, you know, through the Deep South. It makes sense that they would potentially meet people who are not in favor

of the right to an abortion. It makes sense as an obstacle in this story, but the execution is what I think, not really doing much or it's no, it's I would I would say it's doing a lot well, doing much as far as like effective commentary. Oh yeah, no, no, zero. But but was I laughing kind of? But I was just like confused. I you know, I like breckon a lot. He's enjoying the post that sequence was so Yeah, I worked with him on Robot Chicken. He's the best sweetheart,

But that that whole sequence is very, very strange. I didn't understand. Uh there, what what are other stuff that is? Like I don't have really, there's just so many sad pieces of this movie that you're like, actually, we need to talk about Kevin. Okay, let's talk about we need

to talk about Kevin. Where where to begin with? On one hand, I guess the positive thing about Kevin's involvement in the story is that he is a creepy, stalkery, manipulative boyfriend who is actually framed as having those toxic qualities since a lot of teen movies have historically presented those behaviors and traits as being romantic, so at least, yes,

it doesn't do that. I do like that. I like the line that that Barbie Ferrara says where she's like, yeah, that's say anything stuff like I thought that that, you know, that worked well when she was like, yeah, he kept asking me to go out with him until I said yes, and I prefer its like, uh, that sucks. Yeah. Veronica was like he stood outside my window all night one night and Barbie's like, yeah, say anything. Made that seem cute,

but it's called stalking. I just think that when it comes to we need to talk about Kevin, I just felt like, where Veronica and Bailey tend to be pretty grounded characters, it did not find Kevin to be a

very grounded character. And I think it would have been more effective commentary if he were, because he does come off a little cartoony where it's not that he's not doing things that young men often do in this situation, which is be conditioned to be like, you know, we have to settle down together and like, you know, acting like they're living a hundred years ago. That like, for

sure happens. Stalking certainly happens. Predatory creepy behaviors in relationships certainly happened, but the way it's written and framed and like, it just felt goofy and cartoony, and I just didn't think it didn't land for me. Yeah, he just seemed like a character that was written to say a bunch of stuff that men say in these situations. Yeah. Yeah,

Like he was like Patriarchy the Guy of this movie. Yeah, in a very like one dimensional way, rather than being a character that felt like a real person who also may say those things. But just I don't know if it was the performance or just like the lack of development put into this character, but it did feel too cartoonish to feel like it was making any kind of effective commentary. I think it was like it was a lot of stuff going on. But I will, okay, I want to I want to put that on wax and

make that an official Betel Cask canon. Patriarchy the Guy as a stock character because I always understand where it's coming from, and I rarely find it to be effective. It's never just one guy, never just one guy. And again, even if they're even if you do have a character that represents a lot of ideology perpetuated by the patriarchy, sure it still needs to be like handled in a way that makes sense. We live in a society for crying out loud. If you got patriarchy, the guy, I

want to know how he became patriarchy the guy. He wasn't born patriarchy the guy tell you that much. I don't know why I'm upset. I think I'm just hungry. Um. Same, we need to talk about Kevin. Yeah that I I support the spirit of it. I didn't think it was executed in a way that made sense. What about what about Dad tazing? How do we feel about Dad tasting? I didn't That didn't work for me either. Nope, Um,

that did not work for me. I would say it plays into some tropes to like, I don't know there was that there was also there's a scene where like Bailey notices a cop following them and then they just veer off the road in a way that makes them seem extremely suspicious. But then the cop is like welp, which they famously are obsessed with. I don't understand why

Veronica wasn't more panicked. Right when Barbie Ferre did that, She's just like, oh, yeah, I guess let's get breakfast, like right, and she's just like yeah, it sounds great.

There's a couple different times where like there is a problem presented and then it immediately goes away, which I just always I'm like, man like, when they wake up late in the middle of the desert and they're like, we're gonna be late, and then it's followed by a montage of them like kind of hanging out, like feeding animals. I was like, so they're not, like right, so they're on time, jing at a diner, So why did that happen? If that would happen, you would starve or go to

a McDonald's. Come on. Similarly, there's a scene where Veronica comes back to the limo after she and Bailey have had this big fight where Bailey storms off and Bob is fixing the limo because it has broken down, and she's like, well, what the heck? What how is long is this gonna take? And then he's like, oh, just twenty minutes, and then cut to them in the limo driving off again. So it's like, Okay, this wasn't an obstacle then, so cut it out of the script. Yeah,

there's a lot of stuff like that. The whole just the timeline of the entire story didn't make any sense. It seemed like sometimes it would be like midnight, but then they were at a fair and then they were like, okay, let's drive for four more hours to Albuquerque. Or it would be like five o'clock in the morning and they're like, hurry, we have to drive four hours to get to the appointment at eight A. Yeah, you know, just like all this stuff that made knows their money and the way

the money was spent was so bizarre to me. They didn't use Google Maps on their phones the entire time. What I don't that is like a major I mean, I still believe that we as a society have not figured out how to effectively put phones in media. And anytime you hear like whoop, unlike something annoying is about to happen, and it's always like they they do the Jane the Virgin thing where it's like the text appears

alongside the head. You're like, I guess this is about as well as we can do, but it always feels cheesy and and and then to write around that by being like she she's a book, so she printed a map, Like why are we using a map? What are you doing? You don't know what turns to make and what exits to take when you print out a map that spans three hundred miles, like there aren't enough detail whatever. More importantly, I would like to talk about the way queerness is

handled in the movie. Sure. So they're at the fair, Veronica senses that Bailey might like girls, which she kind of like coaxes out of her, which I would say maybe not the best approach, especially since they're not really friends anymore, and maybe Bailey does not want to slash is not ready to come out to Veronica. But eventually Bailey nonchalantly says like, yeah, I like girls, No big deal.

And then Veronica assume assumes that she's the first person that Bailey came out to, and Bailey's like, no, I've been out to my mom for years, plus this list of other people, which I didn't mind. It was nice to like that we didn't have to have like a yes, this is my secret and and I'm finally coming out and like all the ways that that's often weirdly handled

in media. So I'm glad we avoided that. And if I remembering correctly, I think that that is like something Barbie Farra has also spoken about, like wanting to see Mora because Barbie as a queer woman herself, and it seems like that's like something that she appreciates in a character. So I was all for that. It's like just the one offline. You're like, Okay, that works, right. Um. What I am more concerned about is the kind of brief

romance between Bailey and Kira. I am glad that the script gave some real estate to a queer relationship, but I felt weird about it because Bailey is still in high school presumably the same age as Veronica seventeen, and Kira seems to be pretty significantly older. She and all her friends I think are at least twenty one, because we see them like drinking alcohol in public that they

seem to have legally purchased. There's other indicators that I'm like, Kira is like twenty five at least it just would have been like again, it's and we see this that feels like it's falling back on just a general teen movie trope where that's how many times have you seen that in like hetero context in a teen movie, Like that's just a classically bad trope that you would think this movie would have thought like, why couldn't they just

meet another high schooler at the fucking fair. It's actually statistically more likely that you would so easy, such an easy choice to make. Why you have doing the derby whatever that's called. Yeah, but why not? You're in Texas, That's probably That's what I pictured teenagers in Texas doing. I'm like, they're driving soapblockers around I don't know my business. They're driving mad Max Fury road vehicles around a track.

Of course. Yeah, I was like, it looks cool, like no disrespect before all of our listeners from Texas are like mad at me. But yeah, I mean, I just think that that character. I I think that it may have just been that the movie wanted to cast Betty Who, who is like this iconic queer singer who plays the role,

which for sure like Betty Who's awesome. However, Yeah, I think that, like, this movie seems very vested in steering clear of teen movie tropes, and so having a teenager hook up with someone who seemed to be well into young adulthood felt like a very clear mistake, really icky, and essentially, because queerness is so infrequently represented in this genre in a meaningful way, it feels like an even bigger fumble for sure, especially because what happens after they

meet and have flirted a little bit. They're in like a ballpit or something, and Kira turns into a music video. Kira does ask for consent to kiss Bailey, which great, always get consent, but then Bailey is like, I've never kissed anyone before, and like, twenty seven year old Kira should have been like, oh, actually, maybe I shouldn't kiss this stranger. She keeps getting older in your mind, she

do years her mid late twenties. She should have been like, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't kiss this stranger after all, who is clearly a teenager. So that makes it seem like there's this kind of like predatory lesbian trope happening, and it just felt really icky. It just it's like, just cast someone else. I'll due respect to Betty who because it's like you don't want you know, I want Barbie to get her first kiss, but like from a high school from another seventeen year old, Like, yeah, that

was not hard to do at the very least. It is queer characters played by queer actors. Since both Barbie Farra and Betty Who are queer. But and it's like, you know, Barbie Ferrera is like twenty five like it in terms of like production wise, it's all of a board in the story it doesn't work. Yes, great, so again, great idea of like a queer teen getting her first kiss, but the execution. And that's not to say that, you know, teenagers don't sometimes get their first kiss from someone who

is technically a legal adult. I don't always like feel super comfortable gatekeeping like a seventeen year old can't kiss eighteen and a half year old like stuff like that, like obviously, like it's a lived experience thing. But because it's like a movie and it seems to be a significant age gap, that that is more where I have the issue. Yeah, so uh yeah, I I also made a note of that. But you know, Barbie Frere and Betty Who relationship, I r L. I would take it fine,

fine by me? Why not? I also went to examine So we've already discussed how the movie fails to acknowledge in any meaningful way that women of color are disproportionately affected by limited access to abortion. There's another way in which race is very mishandled. So in general, the characters of color, whether it's like Veronica's friends who we meet at the beginning and end, whether it's the people who

Veronica and Bailey meet along the way of this road trip. Also, a woman who owns a pawn shop is a black woman who pulls a shotgun on we need to talk about Kevin, Right. You have the Geane Carlo Esposito character, who is also a gun loving eccentric, like a what's the oh my god, what's the u anni kind of yeah, libertarian,

libertary type yeah. And then you have the was the character's named Gerade Gerade, Yeah, who is presented as a pred tory character who's harassing them and then becomes their friend. And I don't know how much of that is a failure of writing, how much of that is a failure of casting, right, because I would argue that those characters don't necessarily seem like they're written to be any particular race exactly. Okay, So there's a lot to unpack about that.

So in general, the people of color just serve as scenery in this white story, or like helpers of the white characters, um white or white passing. Right. Gerrard is one of the only black characters in the movie, and he's also the character that draws a lot of attention to himself and creates a diversion when cops in Texas come looking for whoever stole this vehicle. That was like

so fucking bizarre. It feels like one of those things where, like you said, the character probably wasn't specifically written as black, but a black actor was cast in that role, but the script wasn't change in any way to reflect the actions or choices that a black person would most likely make. Um. I want to cite this great article I've found written by Kendall Cunningham entitled color Blind Justice. Unpregnant is too White to be revolutionary from Bitch Media. I'll just read

a few quotes and do some some paraphrasing. Here, Kendall says quote. While Unpregnant succeeds in illustrating a larger thesis about the state sanctioned roadblocks to abortion, it fails at developing its supporting characters, specifically black people who rescue Veronica and Bailey from peril and help them reach their destination.

It's hard to tell whether these one dimensional characters of black people as benevolent saviors are part of a broad message about prejudice that the writers failed to develop, or the result of color blind and casting with no consideration

of the stereotypes and problematic tropes being invoked. By the end of the otherwise charming and well written film, I felt annoyed and exhausted by displays of empathy and sacrifice that so often go unthanked and unreturned by white people, particularly when it comes to the larger political issue of

reproductive justice in the United States. Kendall goes on to discuss how all of the black characters from Peg in the pawn Shop, Grad in the Diner, Bob the limo driver all exists in this narrative only to help this white girl on her journey right and here like making personal sacrifices too often help her when she does have access to like other options. It's really because it's the pawn shop owner overpays her for her ring. The gene Carlo as Zito character also canonically this was bothering me.

They would have been getting to the limo place at like six in the morning and he was like ump and running a limo company. What are you talking about? Drops everything He's like, my business is canceled because a white teenage girl needs something like Yeah, it's egregious. And then and I think that my my guess is that it's there are five white writers on this movie, right, Yeah,

that didn't take things into consideration that they should have considered. Um. The most egregious example for me was the Gerard scene, in which Kendall has this to say. Quote at no point in the scene. And this is again the scene where Gerard creates a diversion so to distract the cops. Quote at no point in the scene. Does it feel as if director rachel Leie Goldenberg understands the racial tension

and potential dangerous situation she's representing on screen. It's hard to believe that a black man in Texas, surrounded by cops would risk his freedom and possibly his life to help two white teenagers get away with a crime, even in the seemingly harmless form of patriotic expression. In a moment meant to be humorous and charming, Rod comes off

as an eager puppet for white people. Unquote. Um. And then I'll just I'll share because I will will link this this piece by Kendall Cunningham in all of the stuff, but I just found it very insightful. The last thing I'll quote is this quote. It seems as if Unpregnant is trying to create a larger point about white folks perception of other white folks as immediately trustworthy and well meaning.

Um parentheses. This is Caitlin talking like the way that they immediately trust Breck and Meyer and family versus they don't trust grad right away. Also, the movie frames him as not trustworthy right away because he hits on them. Yeah, and he makes them uncomfortable. Right. So back to the quote, um, white people's perceptions of other white folks as immediately trustworthy and well meaning versus their perceptions of black people as

threatening and unapproachable. If inserted on purpose, this idea rings true, but is riddled with notions of respectability, particularly the idea that black people should be respected because we might not be as hostile as white people may assume us to be. There's also the fact that black people hardly received the unmitigated compassion and support when it comes to accessing healthcare

as white characters like Veronica do. Kendall goes on to say, if only Unpregnant leaned into this irony a bit more. It's black characters may not have seemed as detached from reality. Overall, the off putting racial elements and Unpregnant mostly made me long for more modern portrayals of black people getting abortions in film whose geography and economic status often impede their

ability to terminate pregnancies as well. Unquote, So shout out to that piece written by Kendall Cunningham, and shout out to Kendall Cunningham, wonderful writer. Certainly, Yeah that the it you can't want five white people write a movie you just can't like, and and it's that was I mean of the many frustrating, sloppy elements of this movie, particularly as Kendall points out, particularly because this is about an

issue that disproportionately affects black and brown people. Yeah, it's egregious, it's unkind to the actors, and it undercuts what it appears the movie wants to do, which is be thoughtful, thoughtful and progressive, progressive, which the treatment of I would say, virtually all of the non white characters in this movie are not treated thoughtfully or like like people, you know, like it's just I mean, there's a lot of people in this movie that aren't acting like people, but the

way the tropes applied and the clear like even if if if a number of these characters were not written as UM any particular race, like that's a cast like you need to talk to your casting director about what their problem is that and depending on who you cast, you need to go back and make changes to the script to reflect what those characters would actually do and say in these situations that you've written. So there's a

big failure to do that in this movie. A couple a couple of different fumbles required for for it to turn out quite that bad. Yeah, a few things that I thought were not handled the worst. While there is not a whole lot of diversity in general, including diversity in body size, you do have a character who is fat.

We have Bailey played by Barbie Ferrera. Especially if for comparing this to other teen movies, especially from past decades, there is usually a noticeable lack of body diversity um where you see nothing but thin usually white Western beauty standard bodies, so you usually get a field full of Hayley Richardson's right, So it's nice to see some diversity in size and have that be normalized. Barbie is like truly the funniest. It was, like, again, I felt shutting

on the reading of this movie a lot. But do hear how many like not well written lines Barbie Ferrero was able to sell to me. Anyways, I was like, bless, like she is just so talented and and yeah, and I also appreciated how I feel like in your average teen comedy, you don't get to know like Barbie Ferrara's role in the story would normally be sidelined quite a bit and you wouldn't get to learn a lot about her.

I appreciate that the movie went out of its way to give her her own story, even though sometimes I was like, dad, Taser, that's what we're doing. Uh, we're leaning into the dead Pete dad trope, and then we're doing like this two thousand and seven jet Apatau thing. Okay, uh sure, But in any case, and and there were I think generally as far as this, I mean, we've seen this story of like that you changed and I'm a hot topic girl, Uh you know, story a bazillion times.

But I thought that that was pretty well executed, and like the two actors have such great chemistry that even when it wasn't awesome, I was like, they clearly like each other. I like to that. I think some kind of like popular girl tropes are avoided or subverted in this movie, where Veronica seems to run with like the popular girls, but she she can read like she can read, she cares about her studies, she's a trekky nerd. She doesn't have street smarts, and she doesn't drink, but she

does have sex. Like just you know, that's various qualities that are usually way more rigidly represented in like a popular girl. But you know, she's seems to be more well rounded. I don't know, not not a huge thing, but yeah, it's it's just like a little a lot of little attempts taking place in this movie. Um, did you have anything else? I don't have anything else, how about you? None of that's about all I had. This movie does pass the BACKFLF test, Yes, quite a bit.

It's mostly Barbarie Ferrara and Haley Leu Richardson talking in a car for quite a bit of the movie. Also, you've got conversations between mothers and daughters. You've got conversations between popular girls. You've got all sort You've got conversations between anti abortion fundamentalists and Hayley y Richardson. You know, you've got all sorts of conversations taking place that doesn't have to do with with men. Uh So, yeah, no

problem there. However, we are now at our nipple scale sero to five nipples based on how the movie fares when looking at it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think, setting aside that I think there's a lot of, like just like screenwriting issues, I would give this, I think a three in that it is. It does have an agenda, and a progressive agenda that is seeking to humanize getting an abortion, and part of the agenda is to make having an abortion seem less daunting and scary and just

the normal medical procedure that it is. I appreciate that that is the agenda of the movie. As we've discussed, there's a lot of missteps and what it fails to acknowledge around the abortion discussion in terms of people of color,

especially from a lower socioeconomic status. UM people of color who live in states where abortion is already difficult to access are more likely to have to have an abortion because of other factors, not as easy access to health care and birth control, not as easy access to education, things like that. Yeah, and it's it's like they're they're are you know, certainly Veronica's character has obstructions to access of worship, but she I just think for this story,

it she's not the prime candidate for leading this story. Absolutely, And and also it's it's like the movie has more than enough room for additional characters and perspectives like they're they're just they're you can't include the whole of breck and Meyer sequence and then tell me there wasn't time for it. There was time, and it was a massive oversight in addition to all the ways of this movie

fumbles with race in general. Right, and if the writers are like, oh, I don't know, I just felt out of my depth talking about that in the movie, and it's like, well, then bring in other people exactly who can speak to that more effectively. If George Miller can do it, you can do it, right. You haven't heard our Mad Max episode comes out next week, because that will makes so much sense next with that will make

so much sense in a week. So Yeah, the failure to acknowledge that people of color are very disproportionately affected by limited access to abortion. I think is A is a major misstep for this movie. The way that characters of color are treated, the way the queer relationship pans out, a lot of it is just quite a few missteps. I do appreciate that the kind of emotional relationship core of the movie is A is a friendship between two girls that shouldn't be a rare thing in film, but um,

it is. So I appreciate that. I appreciate the lack of absolution for the Kevin character. I think that, you know, if this movie was made, you know, and even fairly recently, that would not be a guaranteed thing. There's definitely things that this movie is doing right by it is also doing quite a bit either wrong or just completely ignoring the glaring reality of right. Yeah, so I think I'll go with, like, I don't know, two and a half fields a little too low for three. I think I'll

go three. I'll give one to Barbie Ferrera, I'll give one to the actor who plays Peg Gerald Prescott, and I will give my third nipple to PEG's reference to the human centipede. I did appreciate that well, delivered and a rare goodline in this movie. Yeah, I'm also going to go with three here for all the reasons described there are, particularly on the issue of class and race

as it pertains to access to abortion. It's like, how, how, how how can that not come into the story in addition to the people of color that are in the movie and how their characters are sidelined. They're just servicing the sins white teenager and and and so on and so forth. It's just a huge, kind of inconceivably huge miss in that regard. And it's the more we talk about it, the more I'm like, what the fuck? Um, So, yeah,

I'm gonna give this three nipples. And I think I'm gonna give him all the Barbie because I wanted to have a spare. I just think she's a delight certainly. Well, folks, that is our episode on on greg Nant. Yes, so no more Greg's and uh and and and good riddance uh again. We're gonna be linking to resources on more information, will be linking to the Bitch media piece. Will also be linking to a Google dog of state by state places to donate to individual abortion clinics. We will be

doing the same, don't you worry. And we'll also post these resources to our social media, speaking of which that's on Instagram and Twitter at bucktele Cast incredible, and that's just where you can find us there. Absolutely you can also find us on Patreon aka Matreon, where we do to bonus episodes every month. Yeah, you also have access to the back catalog of all of those over one

hundred bonus episodes. I'll be goddamned, including uh two movies that handle abortion in uh ways that I mean obviously I don't know. I had to revisit Obvious Child, but certainly a movie that it handles abortion terribly. We covered on the Matreon, which is Juno. Uh so they're all it's all there, Baby had on, Head on over, come on down, and uh you can get our merch at t public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast if you are so inclined, and uh, we'll see you next week

for Caitlin's birthday episode. Bye bye Bye