On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and Vast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Bo Wow, incredible.
It was me barfing and shitting at the same time.
God, something really so satisfying about seeing someone just slip around in their own.
Goof, especially a rich fuck slipping around in their own waist.
Yeah, from both holes, just projectile both holes. And that is the thing that I remembered most strongly about this movie. And what does that mean? I was like, yeah, class commentary, mmmmmmmm, And do you remember the scene where both holes were exploding? And I think that's just like human nature. I knew that there was a deep message. And I saw this movie I think twice, and as I was returning to it last night, I was like, hmmm, when is both
holes happening? Yeah, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftis.
My name is Caitlin Derante. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. And that's a test, of course, created by a queer cartoonist, Alison Bechdel. Also she credits Liz Wallace as a co creator. That's why it's sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test. And it is a medium metric that has many versions. Ours is this due to two characters of a marginalized gender, have names?
Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation about something other than a man? And we especially like it if it's a narratively substantial conversation, a nice, meaty conversation that you could puke up later.
Yeah, shit out, puke whatever you want, which, as we'll discuss, is you know, not really that much of a problem in this movie, which is wild in a two and a half hour movie where basically two men start a podcast on a sinking ship that sounds like really fun and they're really like forcing it on the people around them in the way that a lot of podcasters do. It felt like representation matters. So yeah, we say, we were talking about Triangle of Sadness twenty twenty two movie
from Oh God, I'm gonna say, Ruben Austland, Is that right? Okay?
Yeah? Great?
I thought I was gonna have an Ewan McGregor sort of brain problem.
No, I think he's going easy on us with his name. This this Ruben Austland.
Yeah, and this is sort of in I'm excited to talk about. We'll first talk with our guests and also talk about how this movie sort of came out at the time where like Rich People Satire was, there were like five, I think movies and TV shows that had similar themes in like this calendar year. But I like this one the best. So let's let's get our guests.
In here, do it. He's a comedian. His new special is out now called Paths with Most Resistance. You can find it on YouTube and eight hundred Pound Gorilla. It's James Adomian.
Welcome.
Hello, well by Caitlin. Hello, Hello Jamie.
How's it going good?
Happy to talk to you both. And I was excited to talk about this movie because I remember it being one of two extremely funny movies of twenty twenty two that I laughed a lot at. You know, I don't know if it passes the BEGDL tess, and I was interested in finding out.
Let's tell you, we'll get there, We'll get there.
It very well might not.
What was the other movie in twenty twenty two that was really funny for.
You official competition.
Oh oh, I haven't seen that me either.
You know, it's not Alma Dovar. It looks like an Almodovar movie because it has Penelope Cruz and Antonio Benderis, but I want to see who the director is. It was very, very funny, and it's like a It was clearly like a film in the pandemic because's a very cast of basically three people.
Oh huh, oh that rocks.
It was basically two actors who hate each other and the Penelope Cruise is the director who puts them in a movie for the first time.
Oh, that's a fun premise.
That sounds great.
Yeah.
Oh it was Mariano Cone and Gaston Duprat.
Okay, the movies. I was thinking this was kind of in conversation with and I was finding like some old kind of clickbaity pieces to this effect was like it was triangle of sadness. It was was it the meal, the food?
What was it called the menu?
The menu?
The food?
The meal which didn't do very much for me, nor did glass Onion did even less. And then you have the White Lotus, which I do like. But it was interesting because I feel like these movies all sort of had made being Rich still look kind of fun, and Triangle of Sadness does not make being Rich look fun at all. I feel like it's the only one that really effectively depicts misery at every class level in a really funny way. Anyways, James, what is your history with
this movie? This director? Take it away?
Okay, So Ruben Oastland, I did not see Force Majeure, which I've been meaning to for years, which was the one about the avalanche at a ski resort. Yeah, and the father who runs away from the family.
Which they remade as an American movie with I want to say, Will.
Ferrell and Julia Louis Dreyfus. Yeah, I haven't seen either.
I should.
Yeah, let's do more American remakes of everything. There was too much snow. So I did see, uh, probably in twenty eighteen. I believe his previous film, you know, the second of the three that I know of, The Square, The Square, which was very funny and I wasn't expecting it to be. I thought it was going to be like an art film, and it was much funnier. Than
I thought it was going to be. And that was kind of like a satire of the art world and how people have to pretend that obviously ridiculous art is very important. Right. There was moments of that in this movie that are very very funny in The Square. So I guess, you know, you make a couple funny movies. If it runs two weeks in America, they consider that a hit for an international production. True, And so I mean when I saw there was a preview for this
and I was like, this looks interesting. And then I saw I was like directed by you know, from the director of The Square, I was like, yep, that's the one. Gotta catch it. This is for me. Hell yeah, I imagine they must have had to film it during the pandemic as well. If it came out in twenty twenty two, it must have been like an early production or one that they were sitting on.
Yeah.
I was reading up about this production halted for some amount of time because of the pandemic. It was one where they were like doing constant COVID I read something like they did over a thousand COVID tests throughout the production. Each one turned up negative. So yeah, they were like shooting during the I think height of the pandemic.
Wow. Yeah, and it's kind of like it's a hermetically sealed cast for most of the movie on a boat or on an island.
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to have to like spot COVID movies in the future where you're like, why do they never leave this room? And you're like, oh, right, yes.
I wonder if there's movies like that from nineteen twenty or nineteen nineteen, right, Yeah, because of the ogs of Spanish Yeah, exactly, No, wonder Buster Keaton was at the front of the house fall on him and something else. It all makes you couldn't get any other actors in there to prop it up. Yeah, And so I was like delighted. I saw this movie an opening weekend Triangle Sadness and really laughed loud, really, like almost too loud
the way I do. I really laughed too loud in the theater, But it was it was so fun to see it minded me, you know, after the lockdowns and stuff. It reminded me the joy of like a shared experience of a large room full of people in a packed movie theater laughing at the same moment.
Yeah.
A beautiful thing.
It's a beautiful thing to be a part of. It was it was just so fun. It was so fun, you know, the kind of rolling laughter as a scene builds and goes where you're like, oh no, they're not, Oh yes they are.
It's it's fucking awesome, Like I loved. Yeah, getting to see this movie in a full theater everyone should get. Like it still holds up by yourself, but it's way better with people.
Right. I actually have not watched it by myself. I'm looking forward to doing that. I thought it was so funny, and it's interesting because it's like there's two parts there. It's basically two different movies.
Yeah, kind of three almost.
Yeah, before the ship on the ship and then after the shipwreck. Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's like there's a through line of a couple characters basically that go through all three what you could consider short films or something. Who knows, maybe it was written that way in case they you know, they didn't get the funding immediately and had to go the proof of concept short film route, which a lot of people do.
Right. Yeah, I feel like this movie could very easily work without part one, which is like just the two models arguing about gender roles.
To pay the check.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
But he's cooking, Jamie.
What's your relationship with the movie.
I also saw this movie when it came out. I also have not seen Force Masure. I'm almost certain I've lied about it though, So if I told you I saw it, I was lying to try to get through the conversation a little easier.
It's an important movie.
Yeah. People do love to say have you seen Force Masure? And I haven't, but I have said I have, but I haven't. So this was my first Rubin also lynd movie, and I really like it, and like we were saying, a lot of similar movies came out around this time,
I think this is like the most fun one. I was kind of burned out on this concept, and so I sort of went into this movie not being sure because I think I had already seen the menu at this point and been like, Okay, we'd sea glass Onion later and be like Ryan Johnson made a hundred million
dollars doing this movie, Like what are you talking about? Like, sure, you know, eat the rich, but also accept one hundred million dollars shit like that, right, Like Ruben Alson I think gets it the most like clear, and I really enjoyed it. And that's my entire history with this movie, Caitlin, what's your history?
Very similar? I saw in theaters, really liked it. It was probably my like fourth favorite movie of twenty twenty two. I've left a lot. I feel like I had a similar theater going experience recently with the Substance, where oh yeah, things escalate and you're just like, oh my gosh, because what's unfolding on screen is just chaos and grotesqueness in a really fun way.
I also thought I had seen The Square, but it turns out I was thinking of the movie The Box starring Cameron DS. I was like, wow, that's crazy that he directed The Box.
There's also Cube.
It'd be really funny if people had like an awards show and they gave the award to a movie thinking it was another movie. Oh no, we were thinking of, oh, not The Box but the Cube. Oh my god.
We gave Best International Picture to two thousand and nine movie The Box. Whoops.
I haven't seen The Box.
It's like, absurdly not very good, but I enjoyed it. They receive a box and if you press the button, you get a million dollars but someone dies.
Okay, interesting the end. Well, I'll check it out someday. The point is, I really liked Triangle of Sadness, and I remember it was nominated for a handful of Academy Awards, including Best Picture. I remember the conversation about how Dolly da Leone was snubbed for Best Actress, although she won a couple other accolades that year for the movie won the Palm d'Or it can. So I was like, I
have good taste. I liked this movie and other people did too, but anyway, yeah, I really enjoyed it, and there's so much to unpack.
You said something interesting. It got nominated for a couple of Oscars, I guess, and I don't. It might have won one, but maybe not. But it struck me as unusual because I'm conditioned to expect that the best movies won't even be considered for Oscars usually, and that there's a certain kind of like less good movie that's considered for Oscars, where they're aiming for the accolades of the
award shows. And this didn't feel like that. It felt like much funnier than anything that usually gets considered for an Oscar, So I was interested that it slipped through.
The same Yeah.
I feel like that's been happening. I mean not to like overgive the Oscars credit, but I feel like that's happening more and more in a way that's kind of encouraging that poor things did it as well as it did.
Stuff like that, everything everywhere, all at once from the same year.
Yeah, like weird stuff.
Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and do the recap.
Shall we write?
And we're back? All right? So here is the story. We open on a casting call for male models. Here we meet Carl played by Haristick, who goes in for an audition. There's also this like I guess documentarian who's interviewing some of the male models. And it's like, oh, is this a grumpy brand or a happy brand? And the cheaper the product that's being sold, this more smiley the models, And the more expensive the product or the brand,
the frownier they are. I thought that was really funny. Yeah, the casting directors see Carl, they're pretty judgy about his appearance.
Yeah, and you're like, this Swede has a thing or two to say about America, you know.
One of them asks Carl to relax his triangle of sadness.
Hey, that's the.
Name of the movie. We're all cheering. We're cheering. Yeah, yeah, the family guye joke.
Normally, it doesn't come so soon into the movie. Usually it's like, oh, and that's the silence of the Lambs, and it's like somewhere in the third act, but yes, or.
There's like a waste land where dystopia has landed upon the earth and somebody's like, truly, it's always been a triangle of sadness, right, but.
This when you get it like five minutes into the movie.
Not to keep bringing it up, but I bet that happens in the box. Surely they say the box early on in the movie.
Oh yeah, like what's in the box?
What's in the this the box?
Yeah? Uh, that should be a quote in every movie, not just seven in the box.
It's true. It's wild that it happened twice, and that's the only time the phrase comes up in the entire movie, right, I think, so, yeah, yeah, And it refers to the like area between your eyebrows, crucial.
Area of making facial expressions, I guess.
Especially sadness.
We don't want to be making facial expressions.
Now, I'm playing with my triangle of set. I can't help. But when you start talking about it, and.
People hate when people move their faces around when you're supposed to look at so way, they're like, have a static a face as humanly possible, because they're.
Like, maybe he needs botox and that would really do numbers.
He's like twenty four anyways.
Okay, So from here the movie is divided into three parts. Part one is called Carl and Yaya, referring to Carl and his girlfriend, whose name is Yaya played by Ooh and I don't actually know how to pronounce her first name. It's just charlby Charleby Okay, yeah, charlby Dean, who is a model and influencer and who makes more money than him, because, as it's mentioned earlier, modeling is one of the few industries where women tend to earn more money than men.
And this does not bother him at all. He's not bothered by it. He's absolutely fine with it.
It's fine.
Huh.
Is that when they fight over the check?
Yeah?
Yeah, So Yaya expects Carl to, for example, pick up the bill at their expensive dinners, and he confronts her this. He also questions why it's so hard for her to talk about money, and he speculates that it's perhaps because it's so tied to gender roles, and he resents that she subscribes to, you know, stereotypical gender roles of the man expected to be the financial provider. He tells her
he feels used. He wants their dynamic to feel more equal, and then she's like, but what if I become gregnant and I can't work as a model anymore?
What then?
And then the conversation kind of like tapers off because we then cut to part two.
Unfortunately I do I mean not to say. I frequently say, actually, this whole conversation has been a test and you failed. But you know many such cases it's happened.
Well, I mean, I've got thoughts. I can't wait to talk about this because again, there's lots to unpack.
Yeah, it was interesting for me to watch that scene and see what exploration of like beautiful people having an unpleasant dinner with their problems that they have.
Yeah, I know, you just don't expect it to happen because.
They're talking about money, for sure, but they're also not talking about money, Like it's there's just there's so much going on and they're both so hot and so unable to communicate.
Right, it's great. So then part two, called the Yacht, we see a luxury cruise on a large yacht is about to set off and a I don't know what her job is, like guest services director or something, this character named Paula. She's addressing the service crew about how they should work hard to make this a great experience for the wealthy passengers in the hopes that they get a generous tip, and.
They start like chanting.
Yeah.
It kind of reminded me of like the McConaughey and to cap like the chest pounding thing. Yeah yeah, capitalists pounding of the chest scary so scary.
Yeah, where it's like, hey, team, get together, time make a bunch of big money. Go team.
Yeah right, the chest pound of class mobility.
Frightening. So we see them. We also see the like cleaning and housekeeping crew, and there's like a clear class hierarchy even among the crew, because it's implied that they're on a lower hierarchical tier than the service crew. One such member of the housekeeping crew is trying to clean the room of Karl and Yaya who are on this cruise, but they pretty rudely dismiss her, telling her to come back later, and boyd does she come back later? In
the story that is wish. Then we see some of the other wealthy passengers on this cruise, such as Dmitri, his wife Vera, and his girlfriend Ludmilla. He's the like, I sell shit guy because he made a fortune from selling fertilizer, like agriculture fertilizer.
This is my favorite character in the movie. He's fun This is the James Adomian favorite characters are.
Just saying this is just the idea of the King of Shit is just so satisfying.
And his name is Latgo Burick, and he's the character actor from Eastern Europe. And I followed him on Instagram after the movie because I thought he was so funny.
He's really great. Got him and him and Woody Harrelson. I wouldn't listen to that podcast, but many ex boyfriends would.
Yeah. When he's first introduced, I mean, there's there's like a magnetic presence to his character where he's kind of like quizzing the couple that we've already been introduced to and he's like, so you travel the world looking beautiful, a pretty good gig, pretty good gig.
Meanwhile, I'm the king of shit.
Yeah right, And he's supposed to be like from he's like, you know, lived through communism in Eastern Europe somewhere and became this like very wealthy capitalist businessman. Yeah. Yeah.
They explicitly say he's Russian, so yeah.
He's right, and the character is Russian. The whole movie is full of these topsy turvy things where it's like the man who's not making as much as his girlfriend because of this particular industry, and then like the Russian capitalist and the American communists and all this kind of things.
You love to see it. So we meet him and his various partners. We meet Clementine and Winston. They're the older British couple who we will later learn our weapons manufacturers, mister and missus.
And grenade more industrial complex.
Yep.
We meet Teres, who recently had a stroke. She uses a wheelchair and has limited speech. She can only say a few words in German as a result of this stroke. Vulcan do we know what this translates to? They say it in the movie up in the sky. Oh okay, so we meet her. We meet this uber rich code developer guy Yarmo, who Carl and Dimitri think seems kind of lonely and pathetic, but then he ends up flirting with both of their girlfriends.
And then they lose it.
Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, he seems like the dorky guy and he's the wealthy guy in the boat.
Yeah, exactly what.
The money plays in the board game.
That's right. Meanwhile, Paula has been knocking on the door of Captain Thomas, trying to get him to come out and attend a safety drill or to plan the captain's dinner, but he keeps saying he's not feeling well, though it's heavily implied that he's actually very drunk all of the time. We recognize the voice of Woody Harrelson. Of course, we come back later.
Yep, yep.
I love his performance. It's incredible.
I really love that his I mean, I guess spoilers of you you should just watch the movie. But like that his character is confined to this second act only it just it feels right. I like it.
Yeah. Then one of the rich people, Vera. This is Dimitri's his wife, insists that all the crew should go for a swim because quote unquote everyone is equal and the crew works too hard, but that night is the captain's dinner, and there's not really enough time to like facilitate allowing the crew to go for this casual swim.
Also off the water slide, to like it's just like a weird humiliation ritual for the entire crew.
Absolutely, it's obviously like commentary on what rich people think, like their idea of generosity or their idea of equity. You know.
Well, it's like there's all these like repeating like at the beginning of the movie, you have like, I don't know, I guess this is a Reubenaus and thing. Again, I lied about seeing force masure, so I don't fucking know. But how at the beginning the fashion show where it says like everyone is equal now and you have the parade of models, and then that image is kind of repeated, and the second act with like the crew on the water slide and whatever on.
And the slogans, the slogans that are deployed in place of any kind of fair treatment of people.
Exactly cynicism masquerading as optimism. I had to keep pausing to like write down all the like horseshit that they're putting on at the fashion show is fun.
Something interesting about that scene too, is the there's like people sitting in the front row of the fashion show, but they're made to move because they're not as important as the people who need their seats. So there's like all these hierarchies, and even within like upper class people or you know, like working class people, there are still hierarchies.
It's it's very interesting. So there's this swim that the rich people are insisting on, and the chef in the kitchen are like, well, if we leave the kitchen and go for this swim, the food was gonna spoil. But everyone's still basically forced to do this crew swim.
Right, not going to argue about it, right.
And also a storm is on the horizon, and all of this culminates in almost everybody getting very very ill at the captain's dinner. They're puking everywhere.
Well, it's like all the rich people because I also didn't pick up on this the first time. It is because they're eating the food that is spoiled, and it's their fault that it's spoiled. Like that'll bit precisely.
Yes, it's because they distracted the crew.
Yeah, I was like, why are only the rich people throwing up? You're like, oh, yeah, because they're eating like poisonous jelly or whatever. It's great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So yeah, that's planted. It's kind of subtle, so I could see why you would miss it. But it seems to be a combination of food poisoning and seasickness because there's this like storm that's rocking the boat. But the people who avoid it are for example, Captain Thomas, who eats a burger and fries for dinner, which also.
Happens in the menu. There's a huge like I was born in the middle class, but now I have money. Like that is I guess signaled through.
A cheeseburger eating a yeah exactly. I don't know why Dmitri avoids getting sick also, but he manages to evade the barfing in the diarrhea.
Right, it's only the people who had the seafood or something like that, which is the popular dish. And it's a fantastic visual imagery because you realize it's almost like the director Rubenoslan, he sets up there's an element of setting up these characters as like a kid playing with toys. There's these rich people that are dressed in tuxedos and now oops, they're gonna shit and vomit everywhere.
It is honestly one of the most memorable and cathartic and gratifying moments I've ever seen in any movie ever. Just like watching these rich people in utter despair, humiliated, puking everywhere, shitting themselves like helpless.
It's beautiful. We covered The Exorcist earlier this week, so it's just been a really great week for projectile vomit on the cast.
It really has Yeah, huge, I mean, I guess in the preview there's some hint that there's something like this that happens, but you don't realize the scope of this scene because you think, like a lot of movies, you're like, well, okay, they're gonna cut away from like they're gonna imply it and get enough out, and then they're gonna cut away to the aftermath or some other way of showing it, you know, where there will be like we'll just show vomit running from under the door or whatever, and then
you realize shot by shot, oh, he's gonna show all of it. He's gonna show like fifty people getting seasick and food poisoning at the same time.
It's like a ten minute sequence. It goes on so long, and it keeps escalating too, where like at some point the plumbing starts overflowing with literal shit water and it's like seeping out into the hallways and everything. So we're watching all that unfold. Meanwhile, Captain Thomas and Dimitri are getting drunk and discussing their political ideologies, with Captain Thomas
being a Marxist and Dimitri being a capitalist. And then they go into the Captain's quarters and here's a Jamie start a podcast over the intercom.
Yeah, it's a hostage podcast.
They're speaking over the intercom and presumably everyone's sick and recovering from what just happened. And this is my favorite scene of the movie, the conversation they have with each other. Yeah, because they're both very funny. It's Woody Harrelson, it's Latko Buick, and they're these opposites in two different ways, because it's the you know, the Eastern European capitalist and the American communist.
She's rare, but not impossible, you know, and uh, it's statistically rare, but there's you know, lots of communists in America, and they're not just all constantly protesting. Sometimes they have jobs and stuff.
Sometimes they're the captain of a luxury cruise.
It's a little bit of an absurdity. It's definitely like a oh, well, that would really happen, but that's not why I go to the movies and uh yeah, And.
It felt like Rubin Assen was like aware of that too, because the first time I saw it, Like, the scene is so fucking funny. The Woody Harreld's character does say it where he's like, I'm a shit socialist and it's like, yeah, man, you are, like you're your whole like everyone who is beneath you. You're just ignoring and literally locking out of the room while you discuss theory, which is what a lot of Marxists do is instead of going to like talk to people.
It's a great deep irony and the thing is full of and this is what I love about him. It's these upside down worlds that are then put in conversation with each other. And I really though, I mean, there was a moment in that scene watching it, where I thought the filmmaker Ruben Ostlund was doing something very brilliant that I had not seen before. Maybe I had read
it in like an ancient comedy play. It reminded me of like Aristophanes, when you're halfway through the proceedings of a comedy and then the character kind of breaks the fourth wall and grandstands directly to the audience. Right.
Yeah, Like there's just like a philosophy segment of this.
Yes, And there's an interesting thing here. It's a captive audience on the boat where they're all sick and they have to listen. It's the captain. He locked himself in the cabin and he's using the PA system from the boat, and so they have to either put pillows over their ears or they have to listen to it and it and similarly, the movie audience is a captive audience for this message. And it's this sort of politically radical theory based history lesson that's delivered by a disc at a
ted narrator who's drunk and a bad captain. So by the rules of comedy, he's allowed to say anything because you don't care if he's the good guy or not. And then I felt like he was holding the movie critics and the elite academy hostage and forcing them to listen to this scene and it was so preachy that it's overtly preachy in the narrative where they're actually literally just on a microphone bothering everybody with a podcast.
Right.
I loved when he goes, we knew it was wrong when there were all those assassinations in the sixties, and I was like, yes, I was like an ale.
Yees a CIA killed MLK.
Like there, I was like holding back from like vocally cheering in the movie theater because I'm like he did it. He forced everyone in the academy to sit through this lecture about how America killed many of its greatest leaders back in the sixties.
He also mentions how, like you know, they'd install these like dictators pup dictatorships, yes, in socialist countries in Latin America and stuff like that, and You're just like what. I also like, how he can't he's too drunk to say shit socialist, so you be like I'm a shit socialist. Stop.
Yeah.
And again like having that like layered sort of thing where it's like you're forcing people who do not want to hear this to listen to it, you're basically locking everyone in the room. And like with the Woody Harrelson character, he is like a Champagne socialist and like having that sort of level too, where it's like he clearly wants to argue with this Russian guy more than he wants to like do other stuff.
Yeah, but they're having one of these very they're making each other laugh too, which is an interesting thing. Yeah, and you wonder how much of that is the actors just liking each other. And that scene is also I mean, I guess it must be said. It's like the opposite of a Bechdel test scene where it's just two guys holding everyone off.
But I don't mind. I'm having a great time watching.
It, which is wild that like, yeah, this movie does actually pass the bactal test, but if there was doubt, that scene will only increase the doubt. It's such a good scene because it's like they're these characters are like weird tethers to each other.
Yeah, and then Dimitri's like, I'm the new owner of this ship and it's going down and everyone's like, oh my god. Yeah he's joking, but like, everyone's scared.
They don't know.
They think maybe the ship is crashing. There's a huge storm. It's wild. It's such a bananas scene that I enjoy very much. And again, while they're like doing their political ideology podcast over the intercom, we see an addition to all the rich people puking and shooting their guts out, we see the housekeeping crew trying to clean up the mess, kind of to no avail because again the shit water
is seeping into the carpet and stuff. And then the yacht is attacked by like modern day potates via gunfire and hand grenades, the very hand grenade that the British couple who are weapons manufacturers, they're killed by their own grenade.
It's so awesome. They're like, oh, it's one of us.
Yeah, yeah, that was a very funny line. Madam Clementine, Oh dark, there's a grenade that rolls on and she goes.
It's cut to explosion. They die. The yacht presumably sinks, because then we cut to part three, called the Island, where a few people have made it to a nearby island that seems uninhabited.
Wait, Caitlin, did you think I was like, well, it's like they skipped the second half of the movie Titanic, like they just were like, a.
Few hours later, the whole shipwreck, we just we don't even do it. Because that's interesting because you know, James Cameron would make that the entire movie, and well, yeah, there's many filmmakers that would be like, we gotta get eyes on all these people who've just vomited as they're as they're slowly sinking in a shipwreck.
I feel like Reuben Austin was either like, well, yeah, we've already seen that movie, or he's like, we don't have the budget for a shipwreck, so we're just gonna cut to we blew everything on the vomit.
It works. I Like I remember, like for the for the first ten minutes of the Island sequence, the first time I saw it, I was like, all right, Woody Harrelson's gonna be back any second now, and then you're like, oh, he's not coming.
He didn't.
He just implied he didn't survive the shipwreck.
Well, the captain always goes down with the ship.
Captain, So was he really a shit socialist after all?
True?
He's for the people.
Yeah, Okay, so survivors on the island include yah Yan, Carl Dimitri, the coder, Guy Yarmou, the like cruise director, Lady Paula Teres, the Indian Vulcan woman, is well as a character who we've never seen before, Nelson, who Dimitri accuses of being one of the pirates, and Nelson is like, no, no, no, I work in the engine room. Oh you think just because I'm black, I must be a pirate And that keeps like getting called into question throughout the rest of
the movie. In any case, that first night on the island, everyone is scared and hungry and thirsty, and there's animal sounds coming from the nearby jungle. And then the next morning, a lifeboat with some supplies and a person inside washes ashore. This person is Abigail played by Dolly de Leon. She's one of the housekeeping crew who we've seen before.
And it's like a metal lifeboat, right, it's a.
Yeah, it seems pretty sturdy. There's like a roof attached to it. It's like enclosed.
It's like a little submarine.
Yeah. The others soon realize that Abigail is a great asset for the island because she's the only one who knows how to fish, who knows how to build a fire, who knows how to prepare and cook her catch. Her first catch is an octopus, and she takes half of the octopus for herself, and then the rest is divided between or I guess, among the seven other people. And they're like, well, why do you get so much food Abigail, and she's like, well, I did all of the work.
And Paula, who was Abigail's boss on the yacht, is acting like that power dynamic still exists between them, saying like, you know, you're just a toilet manager, Abigail, and Abigail's like, things have changed. I'm the captain now.
I like that. You see, I kind of forgot that. There's a moment where you see Abigail like earlier when Paula is like, oh, Abigail, give us the water, give us the chips, like you see a moment where Abigail sort of defaults to the structure that did exist on the boat because she keeps hesitating being like wait, I don't and then by the next thing and she's like, I don't have to do this, and then the movie gets crazier and great, yeah, is it.
Right around here that they she asked them what skills they have? Yeah, and so my favorite guy is let go Burrick. She asked him and another guy, like, do you guys have any skill useful skills? And he just goes, no, no, that's his answer. So funny that someone would just say that's do you have any survival skills? No?
No, no, Yeah, that's only Abigail. And so as the captain, she decides who gets to sleep in the lifeboat with her and like be safe from the animals lurking in the forest. Yeah, So that night, Abigail, Paula, and Yeah Yah sleep inside the lifeboat while the others are left to tend to the fire and keep it going so that Abigail doesn't have to put all the work into building a new fire the next day. But those people, primarily Carl and Nelson, fall asleep and the fire goes out and.
They steal pretzel sticks.
They steal pretzel sticks and then lie about stealing them, and Abigail is not happy about this, and so she punishes them by not feeding them that day. But then she's like, well, Carl, because you didn't eat anything, now you can sleep in the lifeboat with me.
Yeah.
I also like that. She starts by that. Abigail starts by being like, Okay, all of the women are going to be in like the safest place. But then when that like does not, I don't know, it's like it starts with that, but then she's like, wait a second, this actually is not working because the women inside the boat are still trying to enforce the class dynamic. So
she's like, okay, well let's switch it again. And it's just like interesting watching her navigate, like what is the smartest way to do this and survive and like maintain power.
She realizes she has all the power on this island and she does not hesitate to exert it.
Very quickly realizes it.
And so Yaya after Abigail is like, Karo, come sleep with me. Yah Ya is like, well, she probably wants to have sex with you, but you can't do it. But sure enough, Carl and Abigail start a sexual relationship. The dynamic being Abigail is using her power to gain access to this young attractive man, which you know, upsets ya Yah and upsets everyone else on the island because they're like, well, we want pretzel sticks too, and she's like no, no, I control whetzel sticks.
Yeah, I think there's a there's a moment where some of the uglier guys try to get the same deal well because.
They're they're trying to trade their like expensive watches as if that has any currency or any value on the island, and she's like, what the fuck am I gonna do with your watch right now? I don't need that shit. Then there's a brutal scene where they kill a donkey I hate.
It, which is weird foreshadowing unfortunately to like the last shot of the movie.
True.
Yeah, because they're like scared, they don't know what it is. They think it's a and it turns out that it's just a donkey.
Yeah, it just takes a really long time to die. It's like and then, I mean I thought that was kind of funny. It is like, yeah, it's like the Koder guy who's like, okay, I'm going to like hyper mask, like I'm gonna kill the donkey, and then it takes so long and he gets so upset that he's like weeping by the end. It needs to be comforted.
Yes, it's easy, and we're like, what if that was donkey from Shrek?
Damn?
You know makes you think.
Makes you think it's one grieving dragon. I guess it's.
An unnecessarily violent rewrite on Shrek.
Yeah, yeah, I.
Don't remember where it falls. Where is the scene where I always call him as Lotco but the Dmitri? What is the scene where Dimitri?
Are you referring to the moment where his dead wife washes ashore and he takes off all of her expensive jewelry.
It is so darkly funny. It's one of the darkest funniest moments I've ever seen, where he's weeping and holding the pale dead body of his drowned wife and crying and caressing, and then stops and takes off the very expensive necklace to.
Keep like putting on a show for himself. Basically, yeah, I think it's right around here.
It may have already happened, but yeah, that takes place, and it's very funny. Then it seems like it's been a couple weeks since they've been on the island, and Yai y'all wants to go on a hike over the mountain to see if she can find anything, and Abigail
offers to go with her. There's also a quick scene where seems like a local who lives on the island shows up trying to like sell his wares, but the only one around is Teres, who, because of her very limited speech, is not able to communicate what the situation is. So he like gets free out and leaves. So like they had a chance to be saved, but it didn't work out. So back on the hike, Yaya discovers an
elevator to a resort. So it turns out there's this luxury resort that's been on this island the whole time, and they find it, and so it seems like they're saved. And then the end is a bit ambiguous. I will share my interpretation of events, curious to hear what other people thought about it. But so here's what I felt was going on. They find the elevator, it seems like they'll be able to get off the island and continue
on with their lives. Abigail, presumably not wanting to give up the power she has accumulated on the island, picks up a large rock, intending to smash it over Yaya's head to kill her donkey style what they did with
the donkey moments earlier. But before she does this, Yahya is like, by the way, I can try to help you, you know, maybe you can come and work for me, be my assistant, which makes Abigail hesitate, and we don't see her actually like smash the rock on Yaya's head or anything, but we do cut to Carl running through the forest panicking. Seems like he's going in the same direction we saw Abigail and yah Ya go, maybe because he heard yah Ya cry for help. We're not sure.
It's very ambiguous again, but I feel as though Abigail did end up killing ya Ya because she was like, why would I want to be an assistant to this like rich woman when I could be captain of the island right the end.
And I could just ration brattel sticks forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It looks like that's what happens. It looks like that was that's what happens, or at least there was an attempt to do that in the movie ends.
Yeah, well, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back to discuss, and.
We're back Where to begin? Where to begin?
What a dark film? Hilarious and ominous and it's interesting how funny it is for how ominous and dark it is like pessimistic about human ethics.
Right.
Yeah, there's not really a great good character in the movie. It's more as like.
Doing the right thing, and it definitely does sort of subscribe to like the absolute power her ups absolutely kind of idea that like there's never a possibility that there's going to be shared wealth. But when you're with Abigail's character, you're like, well, she'sn't fucking ohe them anything, Like it
is cathartic seeing her treat them like shit. One of the things I really liked about this movie, especially, I know, like you could paregre it to the others, but it really did like bug me in twenty twenty two was that, like, I think a lot of movies that are like talking about class or even like trying to talk about class present the like halves and the havelves not in a very like binary way, and there's so many like shades of gray, and like the way that this like boat
is presented where you have obviously the uber wealthy, but there's shades of gray to the uber wealthy in the fact that it's like Yaya and Carl are wealthy for now, but they're also sort of living on borrowed time, and it's implied that they'll only be valuable for as long as they're beautiful.
They're aware of that, Yes, yeah, there's a shelf life, and they're not.
As wealthy as the people who paid their way onto the cruise because they got the cruise for free, so we can assume, you know, some influencers do make millions of dollars and end up being wealthy, but they're not the same level of like I've exploited people and made my wealth off of grenades, grenades and land mines. So there's even a hierarchy there.
And that's like part of what the first section addresses is that they're both very conscious of like this possibly being temporary and that they'll have to like scrabble to maintain it. And then in like the middle section, you have the like mostly white service crew on the boat and they're sort of like aspiring to be of a higher class and completely ignoring the lowest class on the ship, where it's like implied that there's no chance of moving classes.
It's mostly people of color and like scurious what you guys said, because the lowest class. In the movie, we do see Abigail a number of times, but we it's intentional, but like, we don't get to know anybody until we get to the island. We get to know a lot of people in the highest in the middle class in like the first two acts of the movie, but it's not really until we get to the island that we get to know Abigail with any sort of like nuance.
I saw the whole thing as a filmmaker roasting and satder rising a well off, important audience, and I think it's made. It's made for all of us to laugh at them, but it's also made. It's made for them to be like, look at you idiots, right. I think there's a there's a heavy metaphor allegory you could put onto it, which is that the boat itself is like the planet that we're on.
It's a microcosm.
Yes, this is a microcosm of our planet. And you know, hey, look at you, Look at you assholes. You're also mortal. Yeah, you're bound to the same cycle of life that the rest of us are. I think it's a very interesting attack on the hyper wealthy. I think that the boat itself, the yacht, makes a fantastic story vehicle, like no better place to have a bunch of classes illustrated and the hypocrisies and the struggles of the different social classes. And also I do think it works as a an allegory
figure for the planet that we live on. M M.
The first time I saw in theaters, I was like, I wish we got to know, you know, people from the lowest class on the boat sooner. But it does feel like it's almost like Rubert Ousland is very likely trying to like prey on his viewers willingness to ignore them and then have Abigail be a really prominent character later in the movie because the way that society trains you is to ignore people of the lowest station. And I don't know, Yeah, Caitlyn, what was your take on that?
So the first time I saw the movie, I had a slightly different reaction than I do now, which was like, is this really the story we need to be telling that.
You know, this working class like toilet manager, like literal shit cleaner, has a very undesirable job, gets access to power because of her skills that none of these wealthy class people have, and you know, you see her like rise to and you're like, yes, go, But then she basically installs a dictatorship on this island right then, and you're like, oh, to the point where she's like dolling out punishments to people, she's withholding resources, she is about
to murder someone exploiting sex, like right, She's like yeah, she's exerting her power to gain access to the sexual conquest and all this stuff. And I was like, well, I don't know if that's the message we should be sending out that, like a working class woman of color is gonna be evil if given the opportunity, especially like
coming from a white cis man director. But then I was like, well, I guess this is more a commentary on like meritocracy and how it's actually not great and how it's basically capitalism because it is still it's like inherently ablest and still dependent on hierarchies and an imbalance of power because like she's like, well, I have the skills, so I deserve more. But it's like, well, also she's fucking over all these rich people, and that is satisfying to watch.
But it's like as a revenge story, it's very satisfying.
As a revenge story. Yes, So there's like all these moving parts. There's all these things. I still don't know quite what to make of the end. I have complicated feelings about it. I think at the end of the day, I appreciate it as a commentary on power corrupts those who possess it, and that meritocracy is actually not a good solution as a system of government. Right, So that's where I'm landing.
I disagree with that, and I think that very similarly, I think it's a playful warning from within the upper class, the elite, hyper wealthy. I think it's a warning from within that there is a fantastic reck and come up and surround the corner.
That too, right, rich people are not afraid enough of the working class.
That's the tricky part of all these movies is they're all made by rich people, so it's like always gonna be the paradox. I don't know, Yeah, kill I hear what you're saying. And also realistically, if you're Reuben Auslind, you're like, well, who's going to see this movie. Who's this movie going to get to? Probably mostly middle class, upper middle class and rich people. So like, I definitely
understand the criticisms of it. I like it more every time I watch it though mm hmm, maybe I just haven't read enough Marx, and by that I mean any I haven't read any say like Force Mazure for me.
Well, one of my favorite moments of the movie is you see the Dimitri character spouting all these Reagan quotes and talking about how awesome capitalism and then and then the second the tables have turned and he is no longer in a position of wealth and power and he is at the mercy of someone else's power. He says the you know, from each according to ability, to each according to need in that.
Because he would have grown up under that and would have remembered it of course.
Right.
That's like the part of the movie that I've like, there's like no doubt that it has done super well. Is like watching the rich people squirm and have their ideology adjust in real time to like the rich people become like, well, no, we should do socialism now that we have nothing to contribute.
Now that it would benefit us exactly, yes, right, because like, on one hand, it's commentary about like the undervaluing of labor, especially what is considered to be quote unquote low skill labor. But it's that type of labor which only Abigail knows how to do, which allows them to survive because she's feeding them, and like the currency now is food, but also beauty, and that's something that the director discussed as being like the primary theme he was interested in exploring
this movie. He wanted to talk about beauty as currency, which is why there's so much focus on the model couple at the beginning, and how you can use beauty if you have it as a means for upward mobility, because that's how this couple ends up on this cruise that they probably wouldn't have been otherwise able to afford.
Even in the post apocalyptic tables turned world.
Right, it's like still currency, right, because we have this situation where Abigail, now that she is this dictator, she uses her power to gain sexual favors from the most attractive man on the island, and it's something that we see men in power do all.
The time, and so we get this kind of gender role reversal here. Doesn't make it any better, It still makes it disgusting to, you know, exploit your power for any kind of gain and exploitation. But it's just really interesting to see play out.
And I like that part of the function of that first part is that it's not like the the hot people are presented as like infallible, like there, it's also clear that what their power is is potentially temporary and like how I mean whatever I guess, Like The Substance is the most recent movie that illustrates that point of like, if you are in a position where your value is connected to how traditionally beautiful you're perceived to be, then
things are always going to change. And like that conversation towards the beginning with Yahya and Carl and Yaya being like, well, what if I got pregnant, Like, what would happen?
Then?
If my value shifted in the public eye? How would that affect me? And what would I do? And I mean, obviously she doesn't get pregnant, but you see, you see her value shift and you see his value shift. As the movie goes.
On, there's a line from Yaya toward the end where she and Abigail are on the hike and she's like, I'm so impressed by what you've done here, Abigail. You've managed to run a fucking matriarchy here, and you've domesticated all the old alpha males and on the surface, like a very surface level, Yeah, that's true. It's a you know,
a woman is the leader of this group. She has these other women like helping her and defending her, because there's that scene where shortly after she has declared herself the captain and Karl is protesting and he's pointing at her and he's using this aggressive body language and he's just like, well, I don't see how this is fair, and his girlfriend Yahya turns on him, is defending Abigail, being like, don't have that aggressive posture. You're lying and
you're stealing and da da da. So like on the surface, it seems like, yes, it's this group of women led by a woman who has taken charge. And again, like on a very surface level, that's satisfying to see, especially as like a woman of color rising through the ranks by circumstance to become the leader of these formerly rich people. But again it's still if you like, peel away the
layers of the Shrekkian onion, who if you are. Again, she's the leader only because she feels entitled to these things, and it's complicated.
Yeah, I mean that's part of why I feel like Yaya is like such a tricky character to talk about because I guess, yeah, I'd about to be like this Swedish guy had something interesting to say about intersectional feminism, but hear me out. I do think Ruben Auslin is trying to say so many things and address so many dynamics in this movie that it's not humanly possible really for all of them to come together in a cohesive way. They don't necessarily have to. It's just like it's there's
so much. But I do think it's interesting with Yaya, where you know, Abigail originally, I think she like appeals to the women and the women one of whom, especially like Paula, was originally condescending to her, and only kind of joins as a subordinate because it's a way to survive,
not because it's actually a showing of mutual respect. We know that Paula doesn't respect Abigail for sure, and so it's like interesting watching the like sub class dynamic between women because I feel like sometimes it's just suggested that, you know, like everyone of one gender will all come together to overthrow blah blah blah blah blah, and it's like a nice idea, but there are sub dynamics obviously, and you have three women from three different classes, and
so of course it doesn't you know, that line from Yaya at the end sort of rings hollow. And then once there's like the promise of the natural quote unquote order being restored, Yaya immediately becomes kind of condescending to Abigail again and is like, you should work for me, when ten minutes ago, Yah, y'all worked for her, right?
I mean, I think, and this is something we talk about a lot, but the tendency to assume that everyone in a particular group is a monolith, that oh, women will show solidarity for other women, or all women of color will handle things the same way because of their experience, and we see time and time again that that is not true.
Women of all like classes or whatever exactly.
Like it take any you know, classification of people. There's so many examples to the contrary of that, and I think this movie like shows an interesting example of that with the Abigail character and her behavior. But I don't know, I'm just like, was this guy the right person to make that claim? I'm not sure this guy being the writer director, I don't know.
I think there's a pessimism at the heart of the movie,
which is reflected in the title Triangle of Sadness. And I think you know, and you can look at it like three acts that are tied together, where it's sort of like a cycle that keeps happening, or you could look at it as it's a comedic mirror of suffering, that people keep repeating a pattern of the same suffering upon each other and different in these groups, in these class groups, and that there's like injustice and a reaction to it that's also imbalanced, and then it goes back
to a status quo and that it repeats and repeats and repeats, and that we're basically it looks to me like we're locked in a triangle of sadness. Wow, Like as much as possible, he's showing a mirror of like, well, this is how it is. Even people who are trying to make it better are making it worse.
Right, Yeah, this is like Ruben awesome kind of presenting his worldview kind of because it doesn't I mean, the movie isn't going to give us like clean answers because Ruben Auslin does not have the solution to society. I don't know if like this movie presents a lot of questions, it doesn't really hit answers, but that makes sense. I kind of like the ending for that reason, Where would
it be cathartic? I guess to see Abigail land the rock on Yaya's head, even if you like Yaya a little bit, sure like, but it makes sense that Abigail is because it's still a tragic ending on a long enough timeline. Even if Abigail does do that, she's buying time. But their system is not sustainable, you know, Abigail cannot
sustain this group of people forever. Eventually they're gonna have to go to the resort, or eventually someone's gonna find the resort because we and we know that because someone from the resort has already found them. So Abigail could be by killing someone, you know, buying herself a couple of hours, right, and so like it is this brutal cycle. It's not like there's a happy ending, even by like Abigail's definition, and she seems to possibly know that.
Right yeah, I mean, like flash forward to a few hours after the movie ends, It's like, okay, they have been discovered. She's arrested for murder, Abigail is for the murder of Yah Yah. Yeah, and she's even worse off than when she started as an incarcerated person. So it's such an interesting movie. I love all the the queries it poses.
Like a good comedy, it raises more questions that it answers. Yeah, I mean it is something to be talked about or to inspire a conversation about large issues. I don't think that they're I'm kind of relieved there's not like a companion manifesto of like, how should we solve this strigle of sadness.
As I was rewatching it, I was like, oh, that was like part of what was irritating about the other things in the genre. Whereas it's like there is some sort of like clean conclusion to it that it feels like this is this director's version of solving class inequality. And you're like, okay, like you know, it just always kind of doesn't really work.
But yeah, it looks like the messages, it's gonna be really messy and ugly if you want to solve it.
Yeah, yeah, right. I wanted to just mention Teres really quick because we get to know her the smallest bit. I mean, I think the characters we get to know least to survive are Nelson and Teres, and they're kind of paired off together at different points where it seems like they kind of forge your friendship. Yeah, I think it's interesting that we learn about Teres. We don't really learn about Nelson other than the fact that here in the engine room or worked in the engine room of
the ship that blew up. But there is like one character sort of development about Therese where it's like a humanizing moment for her because we don't really know anything about her other than that she's rich and that she has this disability and that we learn that like she's like used sex to get a job before. But it's like this very like I don't know's I thought it like a weirdly sweet moment between the two of them where she yeah, yeah, like I liked.
It, like goofing around about it.
Yeah, I liked that moment. But otherwise, I mean, it feels like it does sort of go into this very like you're saying, James, like this really dark worldview that Ruben Oslin has where it's like her disability means that the able bodied characters frequently forget about her. And that she is like treated you know, inherently differently by the other characters, and we don't really get much more than that. I mean, I would be curious to hear what disabled
people thought of that character. But yeah, I mean it felt like an acknowledgment that when these able bodied characters were put into an extreme situation, they you know, sort of treat Teres as a second class citizen.
I mean, that's what happens in a meritocracy, right, right, Yeah, it just means that the two characters of the Survivors who we learn the least about are a black character and a disabled character. Yeah, and those optics aren't great. I I don't know, I just like have other stray thoughts about the movie, like the rich people's idea of what generosity is, because you have things like at the beginning, ya Ya saying I'm a very generous person. Ask any
of my friends. I gave you that shirt, I took you to dinner, and then Carl retorts with like, well you got this shirt for free, and I was the one who ended up paying for dinner. So those are bad examples. So you have like Yah Yah's inflated sense of self in thinking she's so generous when actually she's
probably not generous at all. You have Yarmo telling Yahya and Ludmilla, who we don't see very much in the movie, but it's Dimitri's like younger trophy girlfriend that he tells the two of them, Oh, you're so generous for like taking a picture with me. I'm gonna buy you both Rolexes, and it's you know, he thinks they're generous because they paid attention to him, a billionaire, and so his idea of generosity is so skewed. You have the whole thing with Vera being like, oh, life is so unfair to
you working class people. We're all equal, and that's why I'm forcing you to go down a water slide.
Literally dance, monkey dance, like literally, yeah, I think that she's doing a good thing when like everyone is clearly very uncomfortable.
And then there's the character Alicia, who she makes like sit in the hot tub in her like Leonardo DiCaprio moment, wow, fly clothed in water. But it's just laughable and again just like a stupid commentary on rich people's idea of generosity is and how skewed it is. Similarly, the things that the rich people try to offer to Abigail once they're on the island. We touched on this already, but like the rich men trying to like give her their watches are saying, Oh, as soon as we get off
the island, I'll make your life easy and comfortable. Knowing that like they'll probably forget about Abigail immediately, yah yah, being like, come and work for me as my assistant and be at my beck and call.
Right the second that there's a chance for her to get out.
Yeah. So I enjoyed those bits of commentary. I thought they were very effective.
The Alicia moment reminded me of I don't know if I've talked about it on the show before. My first job out of college was like working at this bakery where we were called guest huggers.
Oh, I remember you talking about.
It like that weird like coercion moment where you are like a middle class worker. I mean, that's like who most closely identified with on the boat. I was like serving their coffee, making their law dies, giving them biscuits or whatever. But any guest could come in and make you hug them, and that was like a part of the job. Where it could just be some fucking creep, which it always was. No person who's normals like, hey, twenty one year old girl, give me a hug, but
you did have to do it. And that is what that scene felt like to me, is having to hug a stinky rich person in the financial district at five thirty am. But just to like talk a little bit about the Yaya Carl dynamic. It's so hard to talk about because I mean, and that's like part of why I feel like the movie's so well written. But I don't know, there's moments with like you're not allying with the hyper wealthy women, but also you can feel that they are being used for their looks, and so there
is like an exchange taking place there. The conversation between Carl and Yaya is so infuriating because he is being an asshole, but he also does have a point, yeah, and the thing that is like weird to be like at the end of that scene, Yaya comes back and apologizes to him, which again you're like, well maybe, but he was like being a real asshole too, Like they were just both being.
Assholes for sure, and she admits to like manipulating him. She's like, I don't even realize I'm doing it, but I know that I am.
Right.
I do hate the Carl character where like and then Carl is just like, thank you for saying that, Like he doesn't admit any fault, Like she a apologizes to him for being manipulative, which is true, and then he's like, thank you so much for saying that, But he doesn't apologize for being cruel, for blah blah blah, like anything like that.
I feel like it's fun to see that early in the movie. As early in the movie, you see that the two quote unquote it's an ensemble film, but the two main characters of the through line of the movie are in a toxic relationship that looks beautiful and perfect from the outside to everyone else, right, and in other scenes they maintain it. They act like they're very lucky, very perfect people.
For sure. Their conversation in part one where Carl is presenting, He's like, why don't you want feminism? Why don't you want equality between us?
I just want us to be equals. And I feel like when he's getting something right, yeah, Also, okay, so I've just speaking from personal experience here this conversation, like it touches on something that I've been.
Thinking about a lot lately, where in the context of heterosexual dating, which I tragically engage in, and in the context of like paying for things on dates. I used to be very like, I'm a strong independent woman. I don't need a man paying for me for things. Let's split the bill or you know, da da da. I was like pro distributing wealth in a relationship or whatever or in a date in context. And now I'm like,
men owe me money. Like every man I've ever dated, every man who's ever been inside me, owes me money. And I don't want to pay for anything, and they should pay for everything. As long as like gender based income disparity exists, as long as we're living under the patriarchy, men owe me money. And that is my brave statement. Thank you so much, incredible.
Yeah, that seed is so hard, right because I, like, thankfully, or maybe I'm just not hot enough cannot relate to that exact dynamic between people. But it is tricky when it's like, you know, I've been in relationships where like I am the financially dominant person and in a hetero couple, it is fucking weird. And you're like it is a strange thing to navigate. There's not at least you know, like certainly not how I grew up, there was no
precedent for it. It was either equal or because of how payment structures worked, like even if both couples worked, the dad made more money. And it is interesting watching these two fail to have a productive conversation about that. I guess because I think points were made. Also the fact that like they just acknowledge Yeah, I don't know. I also hate Carl, so I'm like, just pay for dinner, you fucking loser. So I guess that's sorted with either.
To me, it just looks like two manipulative people who are locked into like two cobras that are stalking each other. It looks like two toxic narcissists who are who've settled into an awful, terrible orbit around each other.
Yeah. Well yeah, because I mean on the Yaya end of things, the dynamics switch. Every time there's a power shift, the things between them flip flop, like several times in the movie where originally he also another thing that just I find so irritating about this character that kind of comes all the way around is at the beginning where he's like, I'm gonna make you fall in love with me, where she's clearly like, this is a casual thing for me.
I Am not like in this for life, and he at the end of this like act on conversation, is like, I'm going to make you fall in love. I'm going to do it, and she's like, all right, we'll.
See, okay, good look ye. She even says she's like I'm in this to eventually become someone's trophy wife because I know that that's kind of like my only option, because she doesn't want to do like, you know, working class labor. She admits to that, Yeah.
It's like I think she at the beginning of the movie, she's coming from a very pragmatic place and he's coming from an emotional place. And then at some point it switches. I hate I mean the part of this the scene
where like Carl is the most despicable. I feel like it's that moment when they're on the boat and she talks to a crew member and he's like, why the fuck are you talking to a crew member and then goes and like narcs to Paula and is like, did you know that there's a sexy shirtless crew member out there, you should probably fire him, and then tries to buy like a wedding ring that she would not have accepted.
And that he can't afford. It seems like because when she tells him the price, he like recoils in horror.
I guess I would argue she's a little better, but not by much, because later on, when they're on the island, Yeah, yeah, all of a sudden acts as if she's had an emotional attachment to him all the time. When the power switches again and he's the one in the submarine with Abigail and she's the one left out in the cold, She's like, but wait, I love you, And I'm like, well, no, you don't.
You know, like I mean, it just speaks to the toxicity of their relationship where they both feel ownership over the other person. Yeah, where you know, he's like, don't talk to that sexy crew member. I own you, and then she's like, don't go sleep with Abigail.
I own you.
I do think it's again this like gender reversal thing where yah Ya is instructing Carl how to behave to get something you want from a rich person. She's had to do it with rich men. And now she's like, Okay, here's what you do. You stroke her ego, you laugh at her jokes, but don't do anything sexual set boundaries.
That's so funny that she knows that from experience. I never thought of that. Yeah, of course she does, because.
She's kind of doing that with Yrma when they're like, come over here, have a drink with us, take a picture with us. And then he's like, do you want Rolexes and they're like, TIHI, okay.
Yes, I want God Champagne or like whatever fucking billion dollar bottle he orders, Like yeah, yeah, there's like some sort of power dynamic and like really subtle power dynamics. I feel like we're not usually used to seeing and they're all still so funny. I don't know how he did it.
Yeah. I think a great way to watch this movie is to watch parts one and two and then pause and then watch tape two of Titanic VHS Tape number two, which is the shipwreck and the sinking and everything.
You feel like you're missing anything in this shipwreck that's all addressed in Titanic Part two.
Yeah, just map carl Is Jack Dawson yah ya is rose just map some of the characters onto each other and then as soon as the ship sinks. Now you watch part three of Triangle of.
Sadness where a crew member takes over Titanic Island.
Yeah island. Yeah, where the guy from the engine room, the one who's like, shut all the dampers, He's now king of the island.
He's a captain.
Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie?
Triangle of Sadness truly a triangle of laughter, So they go hand in hand. For it's really an interesting thing about human storytelling that something so funny can be so sad and vice versa. M and I just I really loved that. I really loved that. There is some fantastic artistry in being able to force people to laugh like that in a room that you're not in with a stable hand, knowing that you're in. You know, it's like a great masterful comedy of that we used to do in America.
Indeed, it's so good.
The movie does pass the Bechdel test.
It does not a ton, but it does pass. Yeah.
Yeah.
You have conversations between Abigail and Paula. You have conversations between Abigail and ya ya. I think most of the passes are on the island. But then you have like the crew member Alicia talking to Vera, and Vera being like, get in the hot tub and go down the water slide, and Abigail being.
Like, no, that that whole thing passes that whole I mean.
Yes, So there are a number of conversations that do pass the Bechdel test. Interesting imagine that as far as our scale, though the famous, the infamous Bechdel cast nipple scale, where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I mean this is tricky because I think this movie says so many interesting things about class and income disparity and undervaluing
labor and meritocracy and all of this stuff. I want to give it like a three point five or so. And again, it is cathartic, even if it's a very kind of surface level thing, just to watch a woman of color who had been undervalued probably her entire life and especially while working for wealthy white people, to suddenly become the leader of a group because she has skills that no one else has and that everyone else has undervalued.
There's I feel things that complicate that a bit, but I still very much enjoy watching it from a surface level, And yeah, I think I want to give it like three and a half nipples. I'll give one to Dolly de Leon. I'll give one to Charlie by Dean Rip. I will give one to Captain Woody Harrelson reading his communist Manifesto as a weird podcast that has an audience of I don't know forty people. And I'll give my half nipple to that poor donkey who perishes RIP to him, the RP to the donkey.
I'm tempted to go four. I don't know this guy. It's like, there's a lot of criticisms of this movie, and I do think that like one of the tricky things that Ruben Auslin can't really control is that this movie does seem to be directed at a wealthier audience to self reflect or at least a middle class audience. But there's so many like subclass dynamics that are really funny and really specific that I just like, I haven't
seen done very much. And I think just especially I'm almost like grading it on a scale because there are just so many shady class commentary movies out at the same time, and this one is both like thoughtful and doesn't pretend it has a solution to any of it, which I at least appreciate because obviously one random guy doesn't have the answer, but it's fun to watch him not have the answer. And I really like this movie.
So I'm gonna go one nipple for Dolly Deleion, one nipple for charleby Dean, one nipple for I Guess Nelson, because I just wish we'd gotten to hang out with that character a little more. And I'll give my last nipple to the movie Force Majeure, which I will get around to.
We'll watch it, we'll cover someday. Maybe it's true, No Jans, how about you?
Well, I feel bad. I did not know that charleby Dean had passed away around the time the movie came out, I guess right after it or something. I just learned it from you, and that's very sad because I would have loved to see more from her. I give them orders on a scale of five.
Yeah, nipples, nipples, that's correct, Okay, So I'm sorry. Do you have questions about that?
Have lots of questions that works for me. This is a five nipple flick. I didn't actually intend that. I didn't even think of that before I said, but there's a five nipple achievements.
One after the other, right after the other.
Yeah. I think to raise the issues matters way more than to solve them in a two hour movie, and to do that while being so funny is like an almost impossible high wire act. Movies that say as much important things are very rarely this funny, and so I think that's what makes it something that I would I give it my highest compliment, where which is I think that it should be preserved for future centuries to see what our time was like.
Comedy and satire are such a wonderful vehicle for class commentary, for commentary on many, if not all things. So yeah, I love how funny.
It is and there's nothing more exhausting than watching it not work. So it's really nice.
That's on us.
Yeah, sure, well, James, thank you so much for joining us.
Yeah, this was a very fun discussion about a movie that I liked. Reliving the movie again with you both.
Thank you, Oh my gosh, thank you Come back anytime please, And where can people follow you on social media, plug your special plug anything.
Yeah, the Specialist Path of Most Resistance. It's on eight hundred pound Gorilla. It's on YouTube. You can watch it for free on YouTube. You can pay for it on eight hundred pound Gerrillamedia dot com. All the informations on my website James Adomian dot com. I have a link tree. Also, there's a mailing list which I'm trying to start using I never have before, and I've been posting a lot on Instagram in the last several months, which I have
way more than I have before. So it's at Jadomian and then it's the same handle on threads and blue Skysgadomian dot bsguid dot social, and on YouTube. My personal YouTube channel is James Adomian xoxo, and the special lives on the eight hundred pound Gorilla YouTube channel as well.
Got it cool, It's so fucking good. Congratulations, Thank you.
I had a lot of fun doing it, and I'm glad that. I'm glad that it seems to have held up at least one year since I taped it.
Absolutely. You can follow us mostly on Instagram at Bechdelcast, as well as subscribing to our Patreon aka Matreon, where for five dollars a month you get access to good Right, you get access to two bonus episodes month, including the entire back catalog of somewhere around one hundred and sixty or so bonus episodes. So scoot over there, become a matron. You won't regret it.
Hell yeah, you can get merch over at teapublic dot com. Slash the Bechdel Cast and with that, let's toss a rock on someone's head and return to the islands. Yayue bye.
The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast