The Santa Clause - Part 2 with Grace Thomas

and we're covering the Social Network. On January, we will be in New York for the Brooklyn Podcast Festival at the Bellhouse and we will be covering Black Swan. And finally, on January we will be in Philadelphia at Good Good Comedy Theater and we'll be covering The Sixth Sense. As always, more details and ticket links to our live shows are on our website becktel cast dot com and click on the live tab and enjoy part two of the Santa

Claus on the bell Cast. The questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy, zef invest start changing it with the bec Del cast. You know, there's so much to unpack with this movie. Where do

we begin. It's a feminist tax that much we know. Well, okay, it's on every list and yes, um, I just didn't want to mention there is a Denver connection because at one point Scott Kelvin is talking to Bernard the Elephant. He's like, can we take a direct flight back to reality or do we have to change planes in Denver? And then we're like, wow, that's why we did this here. Why are you all clapping for the worst part of Denver? The airport is the worst thing the city has to offer.

I'm obsessed with the airport here. I think about it at least once a week. I'm dead serious. I love I love the story about how the scary horse statue killed the artist. I like everything. If if on your way out, if you have some very specific Denver airport anecdotal scary Illuminati ship I want to know. I'm like, I'm consumed by it. I all laugh and clap now, but that airport is going to kill us all one and it won't be very cool and creepy and weird.

And quirky that I passed the gargoyles yesterday, grace past the luggage gargoyles. I just I would let someone kill me there. Well, the first things I the first thing I want to talk about is the first thing we see in the movie is Tim Ellen. He's receiving an award for his do it All for you Ali, which what is what is that? Let's not even think about it for a second. But he had I forgot that he had a business partner. He has a business partner. One of the few people of color in the entire movie.

She is a woman who starts to accept like she's like, thank you, and then he pushes her out of the way. He grabs the microphone out of her hand, interrupts her, and starts being like, let's fucking party, Like that's what he that's what he does. I can't really defend Scott there, right. I would say that it's possible it was it was a stage direction, mishap. Okay, No, that's that's not what happened.

He should have let her finish her sentence and given her thanks, and then he could have leaned in with his stupid comments. But yes, I also wasn't lost on us, Sure wasn't. And then shortly after that he's driving home. He's on the phone with Laura, I think, and he's lying to her because he's like, oh man, there's so much traffic. I'm going to be so too lit at

the do It All for You Doll Christmas party. Gross, there's like that Well, I was gonna say, there's like that weird comment that like alludes to like one of his co workers is having sex with a secretary your wife, and it's the coworker that stressed the Santa Claus as well. Yeah, which is significant. I'm sure it's for it's it's really significant. But we're gonna go into that on the Patreon version. Yeah, you can't get it for free, and we're gonna be

checking subscriptions before we get into that. But he's lying to Laura and then he pretends to like keep this illusion alive of there being so much traffic. He pretends to scream at a woman driver who I guess like flipped him off in his imagination, and then he's like, oh, same to you, and that's not very lady like. It's like, well, okay, Scott, women aren't allowed to flip people off, What do you mean? I think the point here is that he is a

raging misogynist, thank younist, not a raging alcoholic. Just better. I don't know. My dad was both, so I'm far more disturbed by the other than him, like yelling at a person who does not exist. I'm more disturbed by the fact that he flirts with a child. We've got bigger fish. I'm just getting warmed up. We've got bigger fish to frout. Yeah, yeah, I think that. I mean again, we we sort of touched on this already, but the divorce narrative I think is kind of interesting. And then

we meet Laura. We never find out anything about her. Let's not we let's find out about Judge Reinholdt like we we find out a lot about Neil. We find out what degrees he has, we find out what his area of specialty like we we never find out if Laura has a job that we don't know. We don't all we know she wanted a board game when she was little, and the board game is also like very

like coded feminine. So we learned way more about Neil than we learn about Laura, which I think is kind of like, I mean, you could easily just write out Neil and have Laura driving that side of this story, but they just don't do that because even like later in the story, where Neil is the one who's the driving force between like we have to take this to a custody level, he thinks he's Santa and Laura is more like, I don't know, and I feel like it's

like almost she gets the illusion of agency in that scene where she's with Neil and she's like, I'm not sure, like what's so wrong with believing in Santa Claus And so she's kind of like reticent and pulling back. But it doesn't matter that she feels that way narratively because they're already at the courthouse and he loses custody two seconds later. So it's like almost giving her the like, oh, maybe she'll get to do something, and then she doesn't, right,

And that's all we know about her. That's all we know, and that's the podcast. And with the cops too, it's like when Charlie calls her from the North Bowl, it's like keep him on the line, like she would not

do that. You know, she's not allowed to watch cop movies, right, it's like and then I mean you touched on this, Jamie, but like Scott Calvin is allowed to be a single man, but like they had to have her be like remarried or like partnered off of someone else, because god forbid we see an unmarried woman on screen if we if she if she was unmarried, we might need to learn

what her job was. What hate that? Yeah, No, so I mean she's just like extremely I mean these are from the creators of Lola Bunny, so I guess, like you know, they're they're not space jam Mola Bunny's first appearance, I believe, so yeah, yeah, the more you know, But yeah, I mean she's she's like it sucks because I don't think she's like a bad character. I think that there are a lot of tropes that are avoided with her that you see a lot, especially if it's like a

divorced woman. You see people often go for like the shrill tropes or the like he's so fun and she couldn't handle it, like or she's like using all of his money, like you know, like she got like a huge settlement or whatever. Yeah, like just kind of the basic stuff that you see a lot and the good thing. It sucks because it's like nothing is really written in

place of those tropes. Um, but like it is clear that Scott and Laura and Neil all very much care about Charlie's well being and that is like they're driving, like she doesn't want to be talking to Scott, but she will for short bursts because she has to. And like I don't know that that I thought was like pretty well done. Yeah, I mean, and there there is just like we were talking about the Christmas Industrial Complex on the way over here, and it is like a

more so than any other. I mean, there's the most characters associated I mean, I think, at least in American culture with the Christmas holiday, and they're all I mean, I'm grinched out tonight. Right. We've got the Grinch, We've got Santa, We've got Jack Frost, We've got who else? Do we got frostst Snowman, Scrooge, Rudolph, Rudolph Bastard right there? We got snow Miser and heat Miser right there. They they have the best songs and also the only gay

characters in all Christmas. At least, at least we get queer representation. The Snow and Heat miser. I do love snow and heat miser I feel like they're underrated. But there it's it's such a like it's such a male Jesus right, oh my three wives. Man forgot the other people who were there at Jesus Jimmy j C. Just like Jesus Christ makes you wow. What if whoever kills Jesus Christ has to become most judious Christ this summer. Judas is in for a route away anyway, So it

is it's a very like male dominated holiday idealized. But and the movie is too. It's like the most famous Christmas movies, like this is one of them. Home Alone is one of them. A Christmas Story is one of them. Three very similar kids, like basically the same area, in

the same background. Like it's it's all like little white boys that you're supposed to like from fairly upscale families that you're supposed to be plugging yourself into for like most movies in general, but it is particularly bad for like this genre of movie I will defend. There is a deleted scene from the Santa Claus where they do reveal or as job. She's an anthropology professor. Really, it's it's in the month where Charlie has been kid napped.

She cancels, she cancels UM student hours. What I only went to. She cancels office affice for a day. And the scene is just ten minutes of her crying at her office. I can't I was in the middle. I was like, she's issues. I found out a fund My favorite fact I found out about this film. Sorry, UM has nothing to do with women. Here is what it is.

Towards the beginning of the film, a brief exchange between Scott and Laura takes place in which, and this is from the original cut in ninety four you can't find it now, uh, A brief exchange takes place between Scott and Laura in which Laura hands Scott a piece of paper with Neil's mother's phone number on it. Scott then says one eight hundred spank me, I know that number.

In the United States, the exchange was removed from all home media releases of the film, starting with the DVD release, after an incident in which a child from steal Acomb, Washington called the number, which turned out to be an actual working sex line number, and racked up a four hundred dollar bill. Now that you say that I remember heard that. I remember that from like when I like, I must have seen it before they cut it out, but oh my god, it's yeah. I guess if you

saw it before, it would still be in there. And then one kid in Washington ruined it for all of us. So anyways, that's the only fact about this I was gonna say that that. Um, I think, like you said, Jamie, like this movie subverts some of those like trophy stereotype things we see in a lot of like children and family movies in that like a lot of mom characters would be poised as like a very shrewd but she

and Scott are generally making an effort. They're making an effort, and she seems to be like level headed and just like a reasonable person, and we don't know anything about her other than that. But it also Charlie really likes and respects her, to which I feel like is especially coming off of like a home alone episode were of a colleague games like my mom is dat like he's so he's a very furious, little tiny person, um, but

Charlie is like he loves his mom. He also loves Neil um and they don't like demonize the stepparent coming in and he Charlie knows all this, all these this like psychologists lingo. I bet if you try to dose your well beatrin, he'd be like, oh, yeah, I can do that, right, he's eight years old. But like I don't know. Yeah, the way the parenting was treated, I thought, yeah, nice, it was, Yeah, it was fine. It was I would say,

almost unrealistic. Yeah, do parents really care them? Maybe that respectful to each other after such a rift is form? Let's going going? My childhood would say otherwise the optimism. Another woman in the movie, there's two women who work at Charlie's school. One is his teacher. She doesn't know the word stepfather because it is like Charlie, bring up your your your neil, you're all right? What is wrong with you? You know? Um? And then his principle, who

do we get a name for the principle? I don't get. She's one of the only speaking role right well her, and then um, Scott's business partner at the beginning he pushes out of the way. Um, so you know not both of those characters get my thirty seconds of screen time at most. Yeah, yeah, there. And then there's a Judy the Elf Judy with the kid that Tim Allen hits on. Yes, not only does he hit on her, but she's like, I'm dating some yeah, I'm in, which

again just suggests a horrible reality. And also the North Pole, at least when Scott Calvin arrives in the first one, is a pretty gender normative space where Judy is really only doing domestic duties. She's like working as Santa's assistant. She's bringing him cookie, she's making sure he's comfortable in the best pajama exactly. And then we see the entire Elf military is all male. You know, Bernard's the CEO, and and you know, so there's there's there's work to

be done at the North Pole. I'll say it, say I agree. Yeah. One thing that I didn't hate about this movie that says everything because it rules it's not very good. Um oh, I'm sorry. She actively untrue. He Santa falls off a lad Yeah, and my dad saw with me. Yeah, brilliant cinemas. There's a British alf oh yeah, yeah. Why was it was a choice or was he really British? I was on the fence. I mean yeah, I mean

this is a very American normative. Most of the people in the North Pole are Americans, don't doesn't track but anyway, Um, one of the things that I don't hate about the movie is that they at least acknowledge that not everyone celebrates Christmas because in that line, that line of questioning, when Neil is like, well how could he be Santa? When this, this and this, and Charlie is like, well, not everyone celebrates Christmas. Not everyone has a fireplace, ak

not everyone's rich because fireplace equals rich. And that's the end of my statement. I like Charlie that I think like Charlie is a cool because I feel like sometimes in in in movies, people will like undershoot or overshoot, like how a child character is written. Like it's so annoying to me when a kid is written as like too smart or precocious, where it's like five hundred days of summer and there's like a little girl folding around like Jesse in Court and love it. You don't understand

emotional labor. I'm like, shuck, like I'm exhausted by that. But it's like Charlie. Charlie is like a smart kid, but not so smart that you're like, this is unrealistic. He's just an emotionally intelligent step son of a therapist. He's just and I love that for he's an empathetic kid. I have. I have a little context corner, please, yes, okay? So I went online, I logged in, okay, and I was curious because you know, Christmas Is has so many

looming male figures over it. As wondering what the history of women as Santa was. And there was a great article that came out in Mail magazine last year that breaks that down very concisely. And I want to tell you my favorite over the past a hundred fifty years, the various attempts of women to get involved in Santa and the various ways in which they have been shut down and sometimes arrested. What So, in eighteen forty nine, we have the first recorded moment of women as Santa,

or a woman is a part of Santa lore. Mrs Claus is first introduced as a concept in eighteen forty nine, right ninety seven quote. It's not quite female Santa just yet, but we see our first inklings when Charles W. Howard found the Charles W. Howards Santa Claus School in New York aka Santa University, to train up and coming Santa's. And he lets two women trained to be Santa's only if all the other Santas are killed at Santa University.

What's that man's name again? Charles W. Howard That he's a hero there feminist icon and no, but he is actually not, because I say they're The women who are trained to Santa's are trained to quote great little girls learn what they want in their Christmas stockings, teach them how to play with dollies, dollhouses, dishes and clothes. So not so good things get interesting. The first female Santa. It's World War two. World War two creates a Santa

vacuum by shipping. Wait right, it's so there's a Santa vacuum because all able bodied men are fighting in the war. There's no one. There's not someone around to be Santa. Wait, women step in. There needs to be like a league of their own, but for Santa. And well, let's make Santa University first. First things, very Donald famous for crying, but it's okay. So women step in to do you know, a lot of jobs, A lot of women enter the workforce,

and Santa is no exception. A Chicago department store throws a woman a bone. Quote. The manpower shortage has even hit old st Nick unquote. The Smithsonian reported at the time this Lady Santa Claus has turned up dressed like Mr. Claus except for the whiskers, at a Chicago department store, and youngster seemed just as happy telling her which gifts they're hoping for. That same year, a new Jersey Woolworth hires a female Santa because they are quote unable to

find a man suitable for the job unquote. The mother of eight, Anna Michaelson wears the biopic will where a skirt, well where a skirt and set of trousers, but all the other stuff will be the same as the traditional Chris Kringle. This fuel's outrage, but people eventually accept it. But the Wichita Daily Times calls the ordeal women quote invading another male. Bastian columnist Henry McLemore pends a national op ed calling it a quote minor hall, Christine Kringle,

Sarah st Nicholas, Susie Santa Claus, holy smoke unquote. It's he also should have said, Sandra Claus. But listen when it comes to my opinion. Clause died on the beaches of Normanchy. You're really just adding to Santa University lore, because there is. Santa University was up in operational in World War Two. If you want me to write enough, I could use this. Ninety three British actress Daisy Bellmore accepts the job of a female Santa in New York

for Sax's fifth Avenue. The beardless Bellmore is called Mrs Clause, but is given her own throne and full Santa Wish granting powers. That same year, Max Factor releases a photo of the ideal Santa Ladies included. Aside from portraying the female Santa with nail polish, women portraying St. Nick are instructed to masculinize the performance in every way, including puffing their cheeks with cotton, lowering their voices, and putting on

a fake bulbous nose. Four women begin dressing as female This is I'm going to say every year up to the present. I'm kidding. Women begin dressing as female Santa's around the holidays for charity, and a sixty two year old Phoebec Brook wears the bio pig Is notably wears the beard as well. For half a century there's little kerfuffle over women and Santa clause. Then Donna Underwood of West Virginia is hired to portray Santa for a local mall.

A mall manager complains, the mall fires her, She sues them, she loses. Marta Brown is given the part of a female Santa at a Louisville, Kentucky walmart, then loses it when a customer complains. She sues sixty thous and dollars for lost wages, and like Underwood, she loses again. This is the end women, isn't there? Oh? I guess I would? I guess I meant they lost in court the same thing. Uh. Last year, two women volunteered to play Santa in a

Christmas parade in England and the town Protestant uh. And the outcome, as of the time of writing was undecided of whether they would be allowed to march. And then this year there's been a lot made of there's an Anna Kendrick vehicle coming out at Disney Plus where they're like, it's female Santa, don't be fooled by the big mouse. She plays Santa's daughter. The fucking patriarchy is upheld. Santa does she become Santa in the end. I don't know, it's not so all that to say. The fight continues.

Uh Santa is a woman. Yeah, okay, that's that's that's what I had to say. Thank you, You're welcome. Let's see I wrote down feminist icon. Soy milk girl. Oh she was so sweets. That was her name. Judy is the Judy is the elf? Right, I forget she's I

don't think she might not have been named. She has an arc, but she doesn't have a name right because Scott Calvin shows up the first day is like Santa Claus for idiots, and then he comes back and he's like, I've changed my views and I see your political point. The next year, Jamie, what episode wasn't recently that you were talking about how almost every story ever made is like a father son story. Oh, I really could be

anything there. I think it was a Matreon episode. But yeah, there's just like so many stories that even when they like even sometimes we're a movie. I noticed it lately, and I don't think this is spoiling anything. But even when I saw a Parasite, which I loved that movie so much, but like, even when there are well written female characters in the movie. There's still just a core of like but it's really about a father and a son do each other right, and you're just like, come up,

please please. Also, this is something we've talked about, probably more on the patroon ak Matreon, but because we've covered a lot of Grinch and Muppets, Christmas Carol on that. But yeah, um, so many Christmas stories end up being like male redemption stories. And this is also no exception where like he sharts starts out sharts, Oh my god, oh my god. That was another scene cut from the DVD. You do hear them fart when they starts to gain weight. But anyway, um, that's how it works actly. I came

about every day I gained a pound, I shipped my pants. Okay, listeners, listeners, listeners, I'm I have I'm threaded forty pounds. I don't know. I'm saying that. I just don't want them to think I'm real skinny, making fun saying that fat people ship their pants. I'm not saying that. I'm saying I ship my pants. I really think our listeners are going to benefit from that clarity. So Scott Calvin starts out as

a shitty dad. See where I accidentally almost said short, Yeah, so he's a shitty dad and the the whole his whole arc is like this redemptive, like, oh, I have to like embrace being Santa so that I can like have my son love me. And it's just I'm very, very tired of male redemption stories. Here we have this one. Well, yeah, I mean I think that there is something to say. I think that there's just like too many of them. I think what to defend Scott Calvin Grace, red pilled

me um, Scott calvid Uh. I do think that there is something to be said. As much as I will agree that there's a lot of male redemption stories out there and there's so many people that are underrepresented, I think that it's good to have male redemption stories in

which the man has to demonstrate some sort of growth. Um. And that is a generally positive thing for you know, because like the way masculinity is portrayed and media is so skewed, and you get the idea that men can do nothing and still be granted a redemption arc for no reason. Because that happens in real life a lot. I appreciate that, at very least Scott Calvin demonstrates a change of mindset, a change of priorities, and appears to grow as a person, and that change sticks throughout. He

remains Santa. In the beginning little portion he lets all these albums just beat him at football, and he's like, this is fun. You know I always would not have done that, wouldn't have done that. You know, he would have fired them. Yeah, and he saw hugs and kisses and he's like, I love cookies. It's you know, it's good, Like it's I like where Scott Calvin ends, we didn't

need another male redemption story. But speaking of which, we are going to cover the Michael Keaton Jack Frost on the major on this year, which is the while this male redemption arc you'll ever encounter. I used to be so scared of that movie because Michael Keaton died is and then comes back to life as a snowman and then dies again. There you hate to see it alarming. Um, but yeah, I think that's kind of all I had. We only had two hours worth of things to say

about the Santagas. I'm just describing the plot. Um, No, we had. I honestly think we got one more discourse than I thought was possible. True, Yeah, No, that that's I think that that's all I had. Oh oh the joke that I thought was that I'd never noticed before. That really got me this time was um, when they're in the classroom and the parents are presenting and we cut into the middle of the scene where a fire. It's someone's parents who's a firefighter, and he's like, and

that's why their degree burns are really bad. And the teacher says, thank you so much, We're really sorry about your firefighting partner. So we're led to believe that this traumatized man just told a group of about how his friend lit on fire. It's I think the most slept on joke of the Santa Claus. It's very funny and I'm shocked they didn't cut it. It's on par with

one bank. That's all I have to say. Anything else, Grace, do you have any other I'm genuinely curious if you could pitch us what you would do for the Santa Claus for what would you do? Tim Allen is gay. Now, oh, he's not gonna like that, but but he's like, he's like by, he's like and he's by at the same time, and and you can do that through the magic of Christmas.

So there's like Toy Santa, Toy Santa's gay and and Flesh Santa's by and there and they've worked, they've worked through their differences and it's like they're they're married, but Flesh Santa is still married to Mrs Claus the principle like it's kind it's kind of polly but it but it's illegal to be polyamorous in the North Pole. Well that's trouble. So they don't they can't be open about it. But but then Bernard finds out one day, and he finds out in a way where he like he would

have kept it a secret. He would have kept it a secret. But but but he's caught in a lie from the Little Alves. I don't know what the lie is, but the lie, the lie forces him to reveal to the Alves and also Father Time, who's back but not played by Frank Lloyd r I p sadly impossible and and and then it turns out that there is a clause. That's the fourth clause, right, I mean, of course canically there has to be another clause, Yeah, and um, what is it? What is the class, Grace, and it's actually

the what is the class? Don't funk this up, Grace, only get one. This is your eight miles. This is eight. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime. Are you quoting eminem It's it's it's it's called the Santa Claus four the Cummy Clause. You fucked it up, Grace, you sucked it up. Now you have to make that movie. I have a check for eleven million dollars. You have to

go make the Cummy Clause. The film is about. The film is about Tim Allen and Toy Santa and Mrs Clause trying to prove that polyamory can work, and they don't. They don't at all, and so Toy Santa gets killed again and then they're coming back to it's kind of about how how we modify love society. Yeah, and how it's not just a toy, you know, metaphor you read it full circle? Yeah, yeah, I would see it. I

would see it. And there's probably a joke in there that's like like Santa Claus being like, okay, I'm coming out of the closet is polyamorous. And then Bernard's like, must be a pretty big closet to have all your partners in there. Huh, And everyone goes very funny Bernard, and then he fringes me, is is it closet? Is a closet spelled like C L A U S C T C. You're way ahead of me because that was going to be one of the big reviewers. Oh, I'm

a screenwriter. I have a master's degree. I see things coming. Bernard takes out and magnifying class and there's a tiny tea next to the clause. He's like, this was the real clause. Wow, I love it. Hey, everyone, I think we have a few minutes for a few questions or comments from the audience. We'll get there. We'll do this for it's quite all right. So yeah, I'm gonna so that you can talk on the micael I'll come up here. Hello. This may be a very obvious question, but who would

Alfred Molina play? I said, yes that well, listen, I mean, clearly, there's a lot of roles for him to play. Do I think he could pull off Charlie? Yes. Imagine if you will Billina fullyon forties when this movie comes out as Tim Allen's son, it would be incredible for my purposes. It's got to be Bernard right, because Alpha Molina in a problematic dreads Wig. It's like it's it's like that. I think it's a very obvious pick. I don't think he would be I don't think he has Scott Calvin energy.

What a lot of people don't know is that Alpha Billina is the one who fell off the roof. That is just all canomically true. He volunteered his body. He just loves Christmas. If he wasn't a minor role, I think he could have made that judge role really pop.

Is pretty forgettable. But I was there to get Molina in there all of draw, I think, and I think the Alphred Millina really would have sold the line where he's like, it really pains me to do this around the holidays, And I think we would have gotten the suggestion of a here, but not an actual tier. He's a pro. His eyes would have been closed to the judges eyes are open, and he would have been doing a flawless Midwestern accent. It really pains me. It's a

weirdly tight shot. We're like, oh, are we supposed to be focused on it? And then it sort of just takes off and then we kind of just forget that the Santa Claus happened and we just follow him through his life. The answer is Charlie, thank you, what's your name? Thank you so much. Okay, here it come. Can we dissect the fat shaming scene with the business scene? Did they fire him for being too fat? Great question, Yes,

thank you for bringing that up. Yes, so there is. Yeah, during the Santa Transformation sequence, there is like a fair amount of fat shaming jokes made at Scott's expense. But yeah, that's scene in particular, like where there's a scene where he shows up work. I think we're supposed to believe that he's gained forty five pounds overnight in the course of a week, I think the course of a wig.

And then he has a number of desserts um and maybe they fired him for being too fat, or maybe they fired him because he was only supposed to spend thirty bucks one he went out of his perm, which is an unforgivable ridiculous I don't know. I was like, I feel like they gave kind of like a half ask. They feel like they tried to give a better explanation but kind of didn't. Where his boss like follows him out after lunch. There was a fat jaming element to it.

But then he was also like, Scott, you're acting very bizarre and you're acting out of character. Maybe you should talk to someone. He says, like, you should talk to someone. Also, I don't know. I wasn't sure what to make of it either. His boss is played by Frank Lloyd, who also plays Father Time. I think the only act who plays two different characters universe. Great, I'm just trotting out my little I'm just showing off doing laps around us trivial, but I mean there is a fair amount of fat

shaming in the movie. And then Jim Allen's character doesn't before he becomes Santa, and he's like fat shaming the Santa who he killed, and then he starts to become Santa, and then people are fat shaming him. Yeah, it seems like he might have gotten fired for like having gained weight or at least put on leave. Right, They're just like, hey, take a Yeah, I wasn't sure what. I feel like that was like a plot necessity from the writers to be like, we got a freedom up to be a Santa.

He can't he can't be having obligations. It's also in the when he goes to the doctor to figure out what's wrong. Doctors like, I don't know what to say. You're you're so fit, you know, you're like your body's in perfect shape. You're just fat, and that's presented. It's like a magical right, It's impossible usually, but this fat man can run. That's Christmas magic for it, right. Yeah, And that's like unfortunately, that's like one of the more I feel like that's the scene that a lot of

people remember. Is like that, like the transformation scenes. They definitely like stuck out to me when I was a kid too, um, and they're the messaging folks. It's bad. It's bad for sure. Yeah. A couple of others, Hi, what's your name? Hey, alex Um. I was just wondering, like the elves seem really chill about a new Santa, So how often does Santa die in this universe? Because they're like a new guy, come on in, we love you. I don't know, I will. I also took note of

how they were like, yeah, it's you. I feel like what I would like to imagine is it's like when Saddam Hussein's statue was pulled down and everyone was like, yes, I'm like they just finished a celebration because the last Santa was such dogship it was horrible, and that they were just they're very concerned about protecting his life. Yeah, like the whole there's a whole sequence at the end of the film where it's like, you have a fire retardant suit now, which we didn't give the last Yeah,

it seems like it's like they do. It's not that they don't care about any Santa, they just did not like the previous. And I mean it seems like Santa can die easily. Is that suggestion? I mean, you fall off the roof of a two story house into like snow beneath you, you don't die, you might break. And they didn't die because he waved bye by, which is not what dying people are known for doing. Helps don't know the extent of Santa's power, That's what I think.

I think it's like if you were friends with Jesus, you'd be like, he's cool. You can do some cool shit. But I don't know if the Son of God. I think they think he's a cool praise if, but they don't. Maybe they don't know exactly what he's capable of. Interesting. Yeah, I mean I think that maybe that it was just the indication of the end of a cruel regime in the beginning of something beautiful. These are really Bush era films. Yeah, they really are. Other other questions, we're time for a

few more here. Since his beard can grow back, do you think if he got liepo he would just immediately get fat again? I feel like we're led to believe that that's the case. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a part. I don't mean to dismiss the validity of the question. No, I think I think you're the expert. It's like, well, I mean, in this world, you are the pre eminent scholar. I've only seen three films. I just love your use

of the words. Certainly well. Other other questions, Yes, my name is Joe, And um, do you think that Peter Boyle was actually intended to do a spinoff movie where he kills Father Time and actually takes the role in the second film? Oh wow, that's really great. I hadn't even thought it would explain why he plays character. And I God, some galaxy brain ship. Is it a good? Is it fun to be Father Time? I would think not I feel like it's punishing just the Yeah, I

feel like it's punishing. Maybe he's in I would say this kind of goes back to the Grimm's fairy tale nature of these movies. Like when you're a kid, you're like, oh, obviously anyone would want to be Santa. You idiots like obviously, And then you're an adult and you're like, well, maybe maybe he Maybe he enjoyed his life as a the toy company, you know, like there's not there's no karaoke bars in the North Pole, you know, there's good things about happy Like what I want to be Santa? I

don't know. I think I would love the optics, but I couldn't handle the responsibility. And that's I'm just being honest with myself. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean if the job offer ever comes along, you know, we'll circle up and we'll really consider it. We'll really think of I mean, female representation of Santa has been lacking, as you've talked about. I mean, yeah, you could, you could lose responsibility for feminism. Yes, exactly, final,

do it? We're talking for one more? One more? Yeah, someone who oh, okay, you have long SOMs bribing about their arms Okay, all right, you said something. So here in the context of a new feminist text, Christmas icon is Last Christmas a rom com, a scrooge tail or, a jukebox musical. Oh no, I haven't seen it yet. I got good news for you. The fourth film i've seen this Last Christmas I forgot. I saw very recently. It's not a jukebox musical. It isn't because they hardly

sing any of the songs. They sing like I think three and that doesn't cut it for me. You know, Last Christmas is a George Michael discography based Christmas movie about who's seen it? Clap your hands. Oh my gosh, it's just it's just her, three people. It's so tough to define it. I think it's a rom com that misfires, and I think that it could have been so weirder than it actually turned out to be. And there's no there's not enough smooching, and that's critical. And also this

isn't a big spoiler. It ends in the spring. The last scene is Amelia Clark's character just sitting in a park in the spring, smiling. And that's not how I want my Christmas movies. They should all they should all end with Tim Allen taking off into the head, regardless of whether he was in it or not. A great ending if you just pick Pickture up. And I was like, hey, sorry, God, we can't really talk about this movie. You can't see that.

I was like, hey, sorry, all that bad stuff happened to you and that you that you're a failing actress and everything. Um, but now you can be my wife. I'm excited to everyone's plan is to be Tim allen Santa wife. Well, maybe those wives will talk to each other, which brings us to the actual tests. I mean, I mean,

does anyone conceivably No, not even close. I think the only scene where women interact is the scene in Charlie's school for the Principle and Laura are there, but we don't know her name and they only talk about Charlie and Santa. Yes, so not even close. Nope, not even close. Well, it's a and yet it's a feminist text, you know, as we say, it's a flawed metric. It's not endorsing that it's presenting. Alright, it's not the holiday nipple scale,

the holiday nipples. It's red and green and it's five nipples based on its representation of women. You know, it's not high. It's like, I guess, like a half nipple, because it doesn't the movie doesn't like outwardly hate women, but it also just doesn't really care about including them or giving us any information about the women. And yeah, it's just not what's still thinking about how Grace is definitely gonna say five. I'm just like preparing myself for it. Um, well,

hopefully this mind brings the average down. Yeah, like a half nipple. It just sucks that there aren't any like family Christmas Eve movie. Where are all the movies about non Christian holidays? Where's the Winter Solstice movies? What I'm saying, I guess there actually is one, but I've never seen it. Well that you're a part of the problem. The problem. It's like we're forgetting eight Crazy night Things, which what a nightmare of the movie. It is real problematic. I've

never seen it. Upsetting, but okay, we should cover it at some point. Yeah, it's just like it's like, why don't little girls ever get to be the protagonists of these movies? Anyway? So half nipple and uh, I guess I'll give it to commit the Reindeer. I don't know how many nipples a reindeer has, but I'm gonna guess four, and then you'll leave it at that. Don't fact check me.

I'm gonna go with a generous one and a half because I well, I agree that Laura is not a character we would refer to as written she her character does avoid the fate of many characters in this genre in her position where she isn't made out to be a shrew, she isn't made out to be a bad person. You know, it's it's she's a good person. We understand where she's coming from, maybe more than in any other parent in the movie. I appreciate that. I also appreciate

pro divorce. Most people should get divorced, like it's a smart move for most And you know, just like seeing seeing a functional I mean, like Gracie, you're saying, maybe a little unrealistic to be like and then the divorce happens, and then you got two giant houses in Chicago, baby. But but it was nice to see a divorce family um and have it be like normalized, right, And you know, Tim Allen shouldn't have flirted with the kid. We all agree,

but on the grounds of I like Laura's character. I don't know what happens to her in the other two movies, but I appreciated her and I was in her corner for the whole movie. So I'll do one and a half nipples and they're going up Bernard, who way, can I give you an update? Female deer have four teeths So was I right? Thank you, very good, Grace. I'm not going to give it five nipples. I'm not, but I am going to give it two nipples. And the

reason is simply, that's the amount of nipples. Scott Calvin hats fevinist hero and I will play placing those nipples firmly on Scott Calvin's chests. You screw them in yourself, those fireproof nipples, and well that's that's the word on the Santa Cla. People have been begging, now they haven't. This is an episode literally no one asked for Grace asked for it. First time it's been requestioned. Well, Grace, Thank you so much for Grace. And Grace is a

Denver based comedian, so go see her everywhere. She performs all the time. Can I plug my pig? Yes? Yes? Where can we find online? Um? What if I told you that that me, Grace Thomas, Denver base comedian, has a new show one If I told you it's a sci fi comedy show with almost no stand up and it's a hard sci fi show with a sex robot and a super galactic pop star which is me and um a bunch of other cool space stuff and the name of the show is Wet Galaxy, and which is

the best name, and it's the first. One is going to be on Saturday, January eleven at nine pm at Nude City Relief Center, which is the d I Y Space. And you have to email me to get the address, but it is going to be very successful, so so I would get in on it. Now, where can people contact you an email you to find out the address? So you can DM me on Twitter at Grace g Thomas or you can send me an email to Grace Gloria Thomas at gmail dot com. And my email is

also on my Twitter account. And my Twitter account is not good, so that's I have bipolar distorder. So sometimes you're just going to get anger. But listen, they already follow me, so I'm not good. It's good. Yeah, come to w Alexi please January eleven. Is everyone going to be there, Please clap if you'll do that, she Jeff bushed herself. That's a promise. That's a promise. Like those two didn't clap, so they didn't make a promise. Everyone who made a promise, Grace Thomas class oh man, Well

that's our show. Thank you for coming. All right, that concludes our two part episode on the Santa Clause. We have a lot of people we want to thank, starting with our guest Grace Thomas. Thank you again so much to her for being on the show. She was so so, so so funny. I've truly never laughed harder at a live show. So thanks again to Grace. Please follow her

on social media and check out her upcoming show in Denver. Also, thank you to Buntport Theater, Thanks to Sam for having us there, and thank you to Ron for recording the show. Thanks to everyone who came out, everyone who asked questions, everyone who bought merch. We loved meeting you and chatting with you before and after the show. It's always such a joy to do that, so thanks for coming out.

Amie and I also did a couple of stand up shows when we were in Denver at bar Max, So thanks to everyone who came out to those and we also wanted to thank Marshall and everyone at bar Max for having us there. If you live in or near Denver, check out there Punching Up comedy series. Go to Barmax dot c o and subscribe to their newsletter for more information about those awesome comedy shows. Also, thank you to Becky and Ariana for helping us check people in at

those stand up shows. That was a huge help. Thank you so much for doing that. And once again, speaking of live shows, don't forget about the ones we have coming up in January in San Francisco, New York, and Philly. Once again, go to our website bachtelcast dot com, click on the live tab for more info and then, as always, you can follow us on social media at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Patreon a k a Matreon

by going to patreon dot com slash bechtel Cast. It makes for a great gift to a loved one during this holiday season because you get access to to bonus episodes every single month, along with our entire backlog of bonus episodes for only five dollars a month. You can also grab our merch at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast, we have some great Grinch themed merch

and then all the classics. Feminist icon, strong female protagonist, feminism is the law Now, feminist icon, Alfred Molina, you name it, we got it, and I think that about does it. So thank you for listening. Have a happy and safe holiday season by