The Fast and the Furious (2001) with Faye Orlove

My name is Caitlin Drante. This is the Bectil Cast, our show about cars. This is basically car talk today. Yeah, I drive, not to brag a Toyota Prius from two thousand and ten. I don't have a driver's license. Peeple, what's up? So what we really do is talk about movies from a feminist perspective and discuss how a movie treats and represents women. So this is our Fast and the Furious episode. It has been requested quite a bit before. We're lining this up with the release of feminist text

Hobbs and Shaw. I'm sure and yeah, I'm I'm so. I'm so excited to dig into it and to be clear, this is about The Fast and the Furious parentheses two thousand one, the first installment in the franchise, because at least four of the eight movies have basically the same title, and it's confusing. We're talking about the first movie, and then our very well informed guest, we'll give us some

insight into subsequent installments. Indeed, Tokyo Drift anyone I haven't seen it, And for those who are perhaps new to the podcast, we use the Bechtel test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about overall representation of women and the Becktel Test, of course, is a media metric created by cartoonists Ellison Bechtel that requires that a movie or an entire franchise must have two named female identifying characters who speak to each other about something

other than a man. Oh here's an example, right ready, Hi Caitlin, Hi Jamie Beep, who's there? You know? And that passed the Betel christ but what it passes? Yeah? Okay, we're doing good? Yeah? Um? With how much further do I say we introduce our guests? I think, yeah, she really is the authority here. Indeed, indeed, she is an artist. She is the owner of Junior High, a feminist art space right here in Los Angeles. And you know her from our Josie and the Pussycats episode. It's Fay or

love Babe, y'alle, Hong Kong. I don't think they honk once in the movie. Why aren't they Why it's already such a loud movie. They may as well hunt? Is that like bad form? I don't know much about street racing. You didn't learn everything you needed to know from those ninety minutes there was there was street racing in my hometown between the burger king in the high school. How many miles is that at a quarter mile? It's about

a quarter mile. It's a quarter so you can live in a quarter mile at a time since high school. That monologue is wild. He's like, I don't give a fuck about anything. I don't care about family. For girls ten seconds that makes me feel alive. Also, we should mention that Faye drove up here on her motor site. Oh my croptrock it as referred to in the film lovingly, I think, y'all. I don't know if it does have a horn? I think does it for safety? No one's

using their horns enough. I think I didn't know you didn't have a license. I thought you were just poor there. Well, it can it be both there. I'm a complex female character. I was really trying to kind of make you in a box. Heay, what is your relationship with this movie? And then the whole Fast and Furious franchise? These are my favorite movies of all time. Um, that's where my relationship begins. No, I guess I've always loved them. And

then my college roommate shoutout Katie. It turned out she loved them too. It was just a real moment when we realized that we had these in common, and as they came out, we would see them together and we developed a dre thinking game to them that does have to somewhat adapt per I did not play it this morning when I rewatched Fast and Furious around nine am. You did not drink. I did not. But it actually is a little bit more applicable to the later movies.

I did realize upon rewatch of this first one, which I normally skip in my rewatch, that um, it harshly did not pass the Bechdel test. Well, I have a case for it passing, but well, we'll save it. We'll save it to the end. I'm curious because I was

very unpleasantly surprised upon my rewatch um. But I like what you said towards the beginning that maybe we can sort of analyze these movies franchise wide, because I do think they develop a stronger ethos well skipping Tokyo, but two and three and onward that I do find them way more feminist driven interesting. Did you did you see these movies like in theaters growing up and stuff like that. Yes, I do think. I went home after the first one

and told my mom I wanted a thong. After saying Michelle Rodriguez emerged from a very low from a car from what I was going to say, from a thong shaved egg, she hatched. Okay, so you're you're a resident expert on this franchise. What's your what's your history? My history? I saw the first movie in two thousand, probably two. I was in high school, probably like a sophomore or junior, and I did not feel compelled to see any of the other ones after that, or we watched that movie

at any point. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of toxic male driven franchises. It's sort of my thing. Unfortunately, there is nothing about these movies that I hate cars. You know, They're like, oh, the turbo and the nitrous and the NAS which is also an energy drink that I was into in college. And so for a while, I'm like, are they started putting monster energy beverage? In essential? Without getting too scientific, yes, have you ever had a NAZ? No? Okay, well,

I was actually shocked you didn't supply some. As I walked in there, I should have gotten a can of NASA figuous episode, but there that isn't existing. I was, you know, I'm a lady, must watch her figure because society be like that. But I saw I was a diet NAS you were. Let's keep it classy. I've never heard of this. NAZ is essentially jet fuel you put into your body. But anyway, so yeah, I I something about this franchise just does not appeal to me at all.

So I've I've seen the first one. I rewatched it obviously to prep for this episode, and then I started to watch too fast, too furious, just to see how I intended to get as far into the franchise as I could, just to have some more informed, and I got halfway through too fast, too furious, and then had to stop. So that's my relationship with this franchise, Jamie, what about you? Uh well, I would say that I have seen only Tokyo Drift. It's like the one that

isn't even like Cannon. I know, it's like, isn't that like a prequel or so that's when they have the four year old playing a high school. Yeah, I liked that one. It's a good movie, but it's like, not that has nothing to do with anything I saw. I saw that at a drive through. Um there, I mean appropriate exactly. Yeah, we were all Hong hongk and beep beep and uh there. Yeah. I mean this is like a franchise that is not my genre really at all.

I also, like have a little bit of noise sensitivity, and it was just like I just can't, Like it's even hard for me to see like a Star Wars movie in the theater because it's so loud. And this movie, even on my humble Roku TV was so very loud. It is feeling that they probably have some sort of warning on diet nas for noise sensitivity. It's just like I don't know, yeah, it was just never my thing. I Mean, everyone I grew up with saw all of them.

So I it's like one of those franchises that, even though I wasn't really engaged in it, I felt like I saw them all because everyone would be so excited about it. And this is a huge It's Universal's highest grossing franchise. There are It's It's eight movies now, including Hobbs and Shaw. There's I think Fast and Furious nine coming out in like they've grossed over four billion dollars, like It's it is. It is a think about two

billion of that is just from me alone. There. You're a very wealthy woman, and I like to spend it on You're in literally a golden roly chair right now. But yeah, so I I this was my I think my first time seeing this movie at least paying attention to it, and oh man, there's just there's just so much happening. There's so much, you know, and it's like, I really love the power of the first time you see a woman on screen she is making a sandwich for a man, and I think that that is really

that's my feminism. This is also one of the many movies that came out like a few months before nine eleven, and it shows like there's cover we've well, we've covered so many movies that come out like right before nine eleven, and it's always it's kind of like a weird mix of of genres. But this movie came out in the summer of two thousand and one, and it's just, I mean truly based strictly on the fact that after nine eleven,

movies were not fun for a while. You didn't get a good romp for a while, and this movie is so like truck sized plot holes, like but that's not

that's not what it's for. It's just supposed to be like a fun movie that you're not supposed to be thinking about whether it makes sense or not, which is a very pre nine eleven or just in general kind of like a nineties Well we just recorded an episode on Independence Day where it's like that movie is the steaks are deathly high, and yet it is like this fun,

goofy movie. Um, I must have never fully processed nine eleven then, because I lived my life for fast cars and fast one they're going to say a quarter mile at a time. Yeah, Like, because it comes without SAE should I just dive right into the recap. Your recap. Okay, okay, so all your listeners get revved up. Put your car into neutral, iron or some forward. Yeah, put slam on the brakes, you know the gas. I know how to weird red switch that every car in these movies as

that turns on the knob. Turn up your boom box in the car, and turn on your green hacker lights. Oh yeah, there's a hacker in this movie. We're really we're really playing to female stereotypes of not knowing what a car anyways, proceed we open. We see three black cars robbing a tractor trailer truck that's carrying a bunch of electronics DVDs, dv The highest of this movie the stakes are DVD players and that is so two thousand and one, So that's very personally. That's as high as

the stakes yet. So DVD player crime, yes, and you wouldn't believe it. But the black cards they're driving around, they're fast and they're furious. They're so mad. I would agree with that characteristic. But they're also feminist, which is not included in the title. They're faster, furious, they're feminist. Now we cut two iron that's Paul Walker's character. He is driving a green car. He's fast, he's furious. What we don't know? He does like shit, he doesn't like

why are you mad? I don't know what happened. He's furious. Yea, he is trying to flirt with a woman named me. And that's Jordana Brewster's fame, the sandwich making fame as well. There yeah, an icon in Cressless Tuna Sandwiches. Women be making sandwiches, yeah, for Paul Walker. And also it's not like it's like a weird like grocery store. It's not even like it looks like a bar, but they like market items where this woman is making. It's obviously a

front for the crimes. Everyone is keeping the DVD player eyes. Yeah, but she's still running the business by herself, and she does have a name. In the first scene she does have a name, an first seen just to set the bar where this franchise is about at For me, it's just like, well, at least she's getting paid for this. At least it's I think it's like a family business.

So I don't think she's It's called Toretto's, which is right, she I mean I'm like, at least she's at work and it's not just like some random guy being like make me a sandwich, and she's like, okay, cress or

no Crest, no Christ. Yeah. She is the sister of Dom Toretto Vin Diesel, and he is an important fast carboy, and he and his buddy room rooms better than anyone, and certainly does he and his buddies show up to the bodega again if we don't know what it is, and you wouldn't believe it, but all of them are fast and furious too. We meet Letty that's Michelle Rodriguez. She is Don's girlfriend. We meet Vince, he's got anger

choose Leon, and then Jesse is the hacker. He's the hacker who comes and he's so confused, like Tom, I'm so fucked up. I don't know what he's just like the I don't understand. I think it's because I don't fully understand Jesse's character. And also multiple people in the movie don't seem to know what Jesse's role isn't everything. They're like, why is he around? And Don's just like, he's my friend, and I guess that's relatable of just like one one guy who you're just like, why is

he here all the time? Does anyone like him in there? Like? And then one guy is just like, leave him the funk alone. You're like, Okay, Jesus, I guess Jesse's our friend. Is that some of the characters are described as being they just sort of showed up one day and then never left. The main character like the way, isn't that the scene with Brian and Mia or like Brian's trying to it's I mean, it's suggests he's doing it for his job, but it's also just exposition, and yeah, Mia

gives him not the answer. She's like, well, we all just sort of lived in the same neighborhood and some people just gotta wandered in. And anyways, twenty five years later, here we are here. Because they're so against Paul Brian coming into the group, yet it seems like the rest of them did sort of just waltz in. Is he not just the latest random hottest guy. They're threatened by something,

something to ponder. Maybe they're like, Okay, these frosty tips too far, those glacier blue eyes, I can't look away. So Vince in particular is upset that Brian is hanging around and they get in a fistfight. He's wearing a mesh shirt and then Dom is like, don't come around, you're a good Vince says, what's up with this fool? He's sandwich crazy or something. Another great line, A lot of crazy, an incredible burn. Then Brian enters into a street race. Dom is also there to Mr Firefest himself

a k A. Jaw Rule. Jaws there Jaws, you know, dreaming up a scam in real time. Billy is ten years old at this point, I mean Jaws texting him hand just straight up on a boob. Yeah, she is empowered. She is the one who puts his hand on her boobs. So so she just that's just like a thing where she just regrets that later on, Come Firefest, right, Come Firefest,

I Come Firefest. We all really had to reckon with feelings about and maybe the one good thing about the fact that jaw Rule was the musician implicated and Firefest was there's like so few jaw Rules stands that no one was like, no, like everyone was pretty willing to be like, well, I guess there's not that really loud song at the end of the fest in the serious one. No one was like, but he makes such good music. Yeah, there's no art versus there's no dear the artist. So

that's you know, that's at least something. So they're all gathering for this race. This guy Johnny Tran is also there. The race happens, it's pretty touch and go for a while, but eventually Dom beats out Brian. Trouble is Brian bet his car, but before Dom can collect this new car that he now owns, the cops show up and chase down everyone, and they chased on Dom on foot, but Paul Walker Brian swoops in, picks him up, and gets

him away from the cops. Then Johnny Tran and some fast motorcycle boys show up and they shoot up Brian's car and he's like, no, that was my first in furious car. That's a direct. So then he and Dom get back to Dom's place, and Dom trusts Brian now because he saved him from getting arrested. It's also implied that they walked twenty miles, but then you see them getting out of a cab, so I don't know how far they walked and how far the cab ride was unclear.

I don't know everyone, it doesn't matter, um, but Don's buds, especially Vince still or like, we don't know this guy, we don't trust him. And to be fair, they are right not to trust him because the big reveal happens. He's a cop. He is a cop? Are they right? Because he's a good guy? I mean, I think that that's one of the many fallacies of this movie. Undercover

Cops actually your friend. So Brian has gone undercover using his same first name but different last names in the street racing world because the cops the FBI think that the people who are hijacking the trucks full of DVD players are street racers also. And this is where we realized that Fast and Furious is basically Point Break but with racing instead of surfing. Oh I haven't seen point break,

so stop right there with the references. Just stop it, jeez. Anyways, So back undercover, Brian brings a car to Dom's place since he owes him a fast carve the ten second car thing. This is like that whole thing. I was just like, I don't understand how men bond with each other, but I'm I'm glad that they do. I like that. I feel like this movie is like relatively strong with like male male friendships, which I think we should see more in movies, But the way that they do it,

I'm just like, is this how that happens? I think they know you a ten second car, I'm like, just say I care about you, like there, we don't need to speak in this code, right uh. And then they'll have a cook at together. Brian's really getting into this friend group and he asks out Mia, who says no at first. She's like, I don't date my brother's friends

until two minutes later when she does. Well then because she's trying to piss off Vince, and she's like, I'll go out with you to the restaurant that Vince wants to take me to. I will say, I like that. I mean that, I mean that's your kind of woman, with my with my with There's a few moments with the female characters here that I'm like that really appeals to my like bitterness, my note, but thank you so much for acknowledging it and really making it more visible.

Um visibility is critical, but like this is like sort of the tail end of like girl power kind of characters, which I think that like Letty and Mia in certain moments are meant to fall into and even though it's like, no, that's not how that, but there's still like that tiny like nineties girl power chip that was put in my brain by this Ice girls, specifically that it asks for

a while longer and even some movies today. Yeah, like, well, it's just like the cheap corporate like you're you're a good woman as long as you purchase the soap or whatever. But I liked I liked that moment with Mia being like, I'm not going to go a date with you. You're in a mess shirt. I'm gonna date with frosty tips. All right, Well, she's gotta go a date with someone.

She's also washing dishes. She is washing dishes, and she has also cooked the entire meal for them, So this pisses off Events even more, and he already hates Brian enough. So the next day, their fast boyfriend, Hector, comes into the auto shop that Brian works at and buys a bunch of parts for three Honda Civics, which is the same make and model of the cars that have been hijacking the trucks. Is fast, but I wouldn't say that he's furious he's a pretty agreeable, nice guy. Yeah he's

the fast and the friendly. Yeah T shirt idea another So Brian breaks into Hector's garage, but he sees that they're not the same car, so he's like, okay, they're not the hijackers. But just then Vince finds him knocks him out, and then Vincent dom Or like, hey, Brian, you seem like a cop, and he's like no, and then he makes up a story and then they go and break into my hair. A cop have this hair? This bad? His arguments are very weak, but they they're like,

what do you what do you wear? T shirts? Just baggy is mine? No, a cop wouldn't do that in a jaw rule? How could I be a cop? So then they all go to Johnny trans garage and they see a bunch of boxes of DVD players. So that's gotta be like four hundred dollars worth of DVT fare. Your stomach drops when you see the DVD players. You're like, now, I thought the steaks right, Well, doesn't like you can buy a DVD player now for like thirty dollars into thou one. DVD players were so expensive, so I guess

it makes sense. My family paid off our DVD player in installments because we should have just gone to Johnny Tran's garage. But we've paid it off over like eighteen months or they were very pricey. So now Brian suspects that Johnny Tran and his team are the hijackers, but he's like, there's not enough evidence. But the FBI moves in on them anyway, and it turns out that Johnny Tran and his fast Boys are not actually the hijackers. Fast fast boys, what do you mean? Yeah, I mean

we're not. So we're certainly not about to call them the slow boys. I mean, yeah, they're fast. They're fast. I shouldn't have brought it up fast furious friendly feminist. Okay. So now one of Brian's cop friends is like, Brian Dom and his ask boys of the hijackers, you dummy, and Paul Walkers like, no, he's my friend. He's my friend. We had so many intense conversations about NA on those tweet about the energy drink that we put in our gas tank. But Brian goes to Dom and he's like, Hey,

whatever you're doing, I want in on it. So Dom tells him to go to the race Wars and then if he does well there, they'll talk about, also, are you going to rain? It sounds and we should just acknowledge that we're going to be saying race and it will not pertain to any It doesn't sound like just gonna sound like I like, I straightened. I was like, I was like, oh, that's what you're calling it. And I was like, let's go down to the Race Wars.

And you're just like, where is this going? But of course it's a fathom So it's just going somewhere completely stupid. And they're going to the desert and they're going to Colla there they they're so they're just going to a fast and fury location. But it is called the Race Wars and sure, yeah, maybe in the new one they'll be like, we're doing this big event it's called the Gender Wars, and it does not have anything to do has nothing to gender. It's just what we're calling the

Genocide Wars. It's actually just us racing each other, just us like hanging out and driving our cars from us. Uh. So they're at the Race Wars, yes, and Brian takes his like newly pimped out car there. But then Dom leaves abruptly with his team to go pull another job. So Brian goes up to Mia and he's like, hey, I'm a cop. I like me as reaction because she's

like man like, She's just like are you serious? Like she's just pissed and like, I'm also exhaustive with at this point, would you, I mean, would you rather date a cop or an illegal street racer? I just think mea can do better in general. Sure, yeah, I think that she like she's I mean, she's Jordan Brewsters when this is filmed, so it's like, you know, she's just sort of she's she's maybe this is her gap year.

We don't know. Also noticed in the party scene when she comes in and sort of breaks up a fight and tells us it's like, Brian, come get me a drink once kind of split it up. She just grabs it a snapple she does, so she's got good sensibilities. She she doesn't drink right because she drives him home then, so she hasn't been drinking and driving has up. She probably knows some facts. Um yeah, I mean I think

in two there were facts facts there there. It is so funny, like the snapple, like there's so much I love Blockbuster product placement because it is completely unsubtle, Like I don't know if NAS was if NAS was an energy drink back in two thousand one, holy sh it, Like that's if like unobtainium was called, like diet sprite, Like they're just like, we can't let anyone get their hand on the diet sprite, the most important thing in the world. Like there, So there is another. I have

a few listed that we'll get to. Also, just to set the record straight, Corona is not a sponsor. Really just loves Corona. That was That was an artistic choice. I mean, I almost only drink Corona these days if I'm getting in like a cheap beer because of it, because because it's a drink of familia. Sure I want to pop that top and that I'm supported by my family and friends. You're right, Okay, we keep doing movies with you that have a bunch of product placement. Remember

remember the Tidy Cats. Josie is like, there's no more movie that has more product, more target recognition anyway. So so Ryan's like, hey, Mia, I'm a cop, I'm undercover. We gotta go help out Dom and the Fast Boys and she's like, oh, ship okay because and then on the other side, like Letty is having like there's that great scene where they're pulling off this last heist, and

Vin is like, it's all good. I had a dream that we went to Mexico at the beach, and Marchella Rodriguez is like, okay, Like I still there's three different characters that are like I don't know, like I don't know, Dom, this doesn't feel right, I don't know if we should do this, and it's and and turns out they are correct,

correct because everything goes wrong. Never died a Fast Boys intuition right, Another shirt ideas the guy who's driving the truck that they're trying to steal from has a shotgun. Ship's fallen apart, Letty crashes, Vin gets stuck to the truck, so then Brian and Me catch up with them. They save Vince. He's badly injured. So then Brian makes a call right in front of Dom and he's like, Hi, it's Officer Brian, please stand help. Then Tom is like, why I oughta The way he looks at him, I mean,

my heartbreaks, it shutters. That's his bro that he trusted him. Yeah, and now he can't trust are you cop? No? And then they he never says no, he just he sort of skirts around it. So, actually, I love Paul Walker. You don't have you don't have to convince me. I just the heartbreak I feel when it comes to Vin Diesel in the way his eyes just look at the park, just dreams right out. Yeah, you know, I mean their friendship. I mean I'm excited to talk about. Yes. So now

we're back at Dom's house. Brian shows up because he has confirmed that his new bff Dom is a criminal, and they're yelling at each other. They're pouring guns at each other. You might even say they're furious. They're so mad. The Fast and the soul Man. When Jesse shows up, who had taken off because he lost a race earlier against Johnny Tran, and he's like, I don't know what

to do. And then Johnny Tran shows up and shoots Jesse, which we don't deal with at all in the story, just like why no one in the movie knows why Jesse was included. He's killed. It's just like what removed Jesse from the movie. Well, because he's the inciting incident for Vin then to run off and chase Johnny Tran

and then kill him to be more furious. So because it's kind of showing more his loyalty, the overlaying thread with all of these movies, and I think a big reason why I love them so much is like loyalty and friendship. Believe it or not, it's beautiful at the fast and the friendship friendship and fury fast in the front and the friendliest friendships, the fast in the family friendships.

For me, that's and familia so great. Then Dom and Brian go after Johnny Trent and his cousin and they like stop them, but then they're like, we should race each other one last time, and they do it, and who wins. I'm not sure. I can't tell, but there's a train that almost hits him, and then Dom crashes and he's like, I gotta get away. The cops are coming, and then Brian is like, hey, I still ow you attend second car, so he gives him his car. He gets away, and he's a bad cop because he didn't

arrest the criminal. But in his defense, even the criminals are friends. Their friends friendship is more important than laws. So that's this moral of this story. Which you know often true after true, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back. We're bad. That was a boat. Do they ever ride boats? Oam no, but um, you should watch The Italian Job. What about a train? There's a lot of train related scenes, but they're never directly driving the train, but there's like cars on a train

that they have to get off a train. They're alongside trains. The physics get It's kind of funny to look back and realize it started with DVD players because towards the end it is like matters of national security. They there's literally like an entity called God's Eye that can overlook every single human and what they're doing. And you're like, oh, yeah, you just rob some DVD players and now you're gotta raise the stakes. From movie to movie they get raised

so exponentially. I'm like, what is nine going to be? Like? That's all I think about. I mean, the whole Solar System is at stakes. Honestly, you're you're kidding, But I wouldn't be surprised if they go to space like something it's going to be. I mean, space ships are fast and probably furious. There's some sort of space war from Race War to Space War, The Fast and the Furious Journey. Well, they should get you writing me. I don't know if they started it ten, but they would never let a

woman write these movies. I'm actually kind of curious. The same man has written at least six of them. If you get kind of wonky, and then they come back to the older director, who's incredible. Okay, yeah, let me figure out the writer of this movie. The Fast and the Furious three credited writers Gary Scott Thompson, Eric Bergquist, and David Air. It looks like David Air also wrote Suicide Squad and Bright Yikes are talented. Gary Scott Thompson

also wrote Too Fast, Too Furious. It looks like there's a different man writing like the most recent one. Okay, well, here you are just assuming gender, so really, that's on you. It is truly a man named Mark would not I cannot tell a lie. A man named Mark writes The Fast and the Furious movies. And are you shocked? No? So where do we want to start here? I guess let's start with the female characters. That's a good place to start. There are two, so it'll be there are two.

We'll just zip through this. Your cot. Okay, it should be mentioned, Faye, you have a cat named Letty. I do a male cat. Well, both my cats are named after Fast and Furious characters. My girl cat is Dwayne the Cat Johnson. Um she is, she's furious. That tracks with what I know. But um, you know, it's so funny watching the movies now and just thinking about my cat instead of Michelle Rodriguez. But yeah, I can't overstate

how much I love these movies. And I really kind of wish we watched like the third one or fourth because this one they just get so good. I mean, maybe we'll do another episode and bring you back fully available for when the next next one comes. And there's always going to be the next one. Is everyone in

the Curse on the Fat of the Fast franchise? Well they actually I do think they're ending at ten because they got like budgeted for Fast X. Otherwise they're going to have to start paying Vin Diesel in like planets like they make. That's what the Space World about? The Space War one. That's the final one. Um, okay, let's talk about Mia. Let's start with Mia. She's the first female character that we really see on screen. She is

Dom's sister. She manages the front business sort of, but it seems like she kind of just makes food for whoever asks, is something we see her do a lot. She is fully a love interest character. She's basically in the story I would argue just to make you know, to like complicate Paul, like Paul Walker. There's so many times when Brian is talking to his fellow police officers and they're like, well, maybe if you didn't have such strong feelings for me, you'd be able to be a

better cop and like to honor. He does. He shoves a pervert, he does, but that happens a lot. I'm thinking also in like The Rock, uh not Dwayne the Rock Johnson, but the Michael Bay film The Rock His Wife Um, where Nicolas Cage's girlfriend character, everyone keeps telling Nicolas Cage like, don't think about her, You're just gonna

get distracted and confused. Like where So this is kind of an example of a woman being present in the story as sort of an obstacle almost, or like seen as being like you're clouding this man's judgment because of your feminine wiles or something an they're part of Grdanna that I love, or Mia the character of Mia is that throughout the franchise she does go from having bangs to not having bangs and then back again, which is a huge female what a character arc as a woe,

I can't yeah, as a woman with a forehead, I've I've been there, and it really, I mean, does it directly?

I wish I wish, Okay, one of the many reasons I wish that there was at least one credited female writer, as if you know, you could really work in story into the banks, because if you're getting banks, you're not in a good place, especially if I would you know, like Jordan and Bruser, I prefer her without the banks, but I would understand, you know, sometimes I bring out the banks, you just got your banks kind of they're pulled back right now, so are we because I'm really

much better now. Because that did seem like a cry for help at the time, but it definitely was, and I so so, I mean, I just think if male writers understood women better, they could write to these banks choices. I think the banks kind of tell their own story, but to teach their own it's worth mentioning. I have sort of this lineup of things that happened to main

female characters later in the franchise. I have not seen these movies, but in the fifth movie, the villain of whatever that one is threatens threatens to have her raped and killed. In the sixth movie, she gets kidnapped and held a surprise for the men to retrieve, and she eventually Where are you just getting this information as someone who has not seen the movies, like some Wikipedia synopsis or something. Yeah, just like because she's not in all of them, she's in five of them. Yeah, but these

are I guess in the later installments. It's weird. I mean, I'm interested in your opinion on this too. Based on strictly the Wikipedia read, it would seem that the attitudes towards women in fact may get worse over time, because I was I was pleasantly surprised that a blockbuster movie chose not to completely damsel or like hold a woman as like Collateral or to be rescued in the first movie.

But it seems like that happens a bunch later on. Yes, but yeah, so with mia Um, she is in the world of street racing sort of only on the periphery where she like hangs out with the other street racers mostly makes sandwiches first. She doesn't get to participate in any races. We do see her driving fast on her date with Brian, but she's fairly past You do learn later that she's an excellent driver as well, and sort of makes it a conscious choice not to be part

of that world. But um is more than like welcomed in it, and she has like every capacity to be talented in that regard. Well that we do see her at the very end whenever Bryan has caught up to the final heightst that's happening, and she's behind the wheel most of the time of Brian's car because he's trying to save Vince, and so she's doing some you know, pretty complicated, fast and furious driving. So we see that

she is competent. But and that like, yeah, when women are included in the climax of the movie, like everyone is participating in the climax of the movie. There is a moment where they're like, Letty is hurt, just getting she's fine, and then she's rejoins the action. But I thought that was cool that the two female characters that we have are at least included in at least one

big action scene. Their Sideline, I think a lot earlier and um, and the way that all women are portrayed earlier in this movie is like, uh, but it was cool that like the climactic scene, you know, it's not like Pacific rim woman launched out of the scene never

to be seen again. Yes, I would say though, that this is another movie where a woman who is good at cars is shorthand for she's not like she's down at earth because it's like she she's got a traditionally masculine skill, so that makes her cooler and more able

to hang than other girls. I'm wondering if, like the moment that you were possibly going to bring up kind of making the campaign that this does pass the backball test is when Michelle Rodriguez to another woman who's hanging over Don called him skanks and then they say okay, well back off and that is a conversation and that he is not about a guy she is okay because so here's what happens. As they're approaching dom. He goes hey, Camille,

Hey Monica. Goddamn their name Camille and Monica. But that is not the only woman named Monica in this movie. There's a different Monica with ja Rule exactly, so like I mean, I guess that that's are we sure Monica

wasn't just recast. I mean they're two different actors. Like it is so clearly like the screenwriters knew exactly one woman between the three of them named Monica, and they're like, we're dropping this around the scandals and they're just like Monica, like okay, wait, we need there's there's some more characters. So Monica, if you take away some of the letters, there's Mia. Okay, so there's okay, or another character names Mia, which is just sort of Letty's a wild part of name. Yeah,

that's at least like a thoughtful name. I don't know. I think though that they were like, okay, we took away some letters from Monica to make Mia letters let Letty that's how. That's how they could that possibly be

short for? And then Letitia. Yes, good okay? But yeah, so like the women go to cars, The most egregious example of this that I think we've come across, at least on the podcast so far, is like the Megan Fox character and Transformers, especially because like her interest in cars is so it's like basically just used as an excuse to sexualize her. Yes, um, like she's bending over

the hood, she's humping, she's measuring the tailpipe. It's sort of like portrayal of a woman who they give these sort of like masculine interests to and decide not to give them more of a personality or any sort of development because they think, oh, she has like manly interest. Is um Natalie Apportman in the first Thorror movie when like two times she goes, I'm an astrophysicist and absolutely no other like that's all we know. Yeah, It's like, but what more do we need to know? She loves

such and she loves the space war. It's such a yeah, like those empty because it's like ultimately kind of like an empty gesture to do that. And also like with the with and in Mia Is, I mean, the way that women are dressed in this movie is very sexy, very hot, gorgeous, inspirational. They're dressed in very particular ways, and like I think Mia dresses on the more conservative side, which I think is supposed to be shorthand for she's

a good girl. She makes you the sandwich, as opposed to if you're a woman who is at the street race, you are like a loose you're probably named Monica, and you all you're strictly there to hook up with whoever wins. The part of the drinking game that I briefly mentioned was you do drink anytime there's like a gratuitous ask shot,

they get a little bit more in your face about it. Actually, I think as the film's growing, in my opinion, do become more feminists, they actually do gravitate towards just showing more butts, which I haven't really grappled with. I mean, it's possible for maybe something to both progress and regress at the same time, saying there are you're safe. It's fine, space, it's good, but it's everything I know, shattering when you really think about it. Maybe oh god, I mean, this

is a big part of my life. Like I'm not we haven't you know what. Feminism is a conversation, and it's I think part of this, this podcast and feminist discussion is you know, a discourse and there's there's no black and white. True I'm not going to get they're not feminist. I won't leave, Okay, So there's like me

as an the car. I think that there is sort of a tendency for when a woman is presented as like you were taking like good at car, she also has to present hyper feminine at the same time because and if there's too much straddling of that line of like you can't be good at car and present like more traditionally masculine, or she does wear cargo paying, but it's two thousand one. Everyone's wearing cargo pass and she

is wearing them with a very high rise thong. Yeah we're talking about Letty right, okay, because I feel like Letty is the one who's like characteristic, like into cars, like the rude kind of girl. I like Letty's character better across the board, and feel like Mia is is very much a stock girlfriend character kind of remains that way.

I will say she becomes like a mom even it's like it's like good for her, but yeah, she's never really liked the focus right, like she's she's here for this movie to just keep Paul Walker in in this space and like she's good at car for a second, which at least is paid off at the end when she needs to be. But I don't know the especially because it's like I loved herd a Brewster. I wanted to have more fun stuff to do. Yeah, she she isn't given much, especially car type stuff, which is the

focus of this movie. Yeah, the woman good a car thing in this movie. I would say it's not as egregious as like the Megan Fox Transformers then because it doesn't feel tacked on and their interests hasn't been like overly sexualized. But it does mean that like the women who know cars get to hang out with the fast boys, and the women who don't know cars are the quote trophies who stand who are literally so called like like Dom picks up, you're my trophy, You're like, no, Letty,

we do see participate in a arace. But Mia is really just there for Paul Walker to put his arm around and help wash some dishes. And really it's kind of a show that he's like a good guy really because he defends her, he helps with the dishes. He it's kind of shows his intentions to that he falls for her and not one of the girls at the Furious Girl because those are beneath him. Yeah, and then Mia, like Mia is also used to show what a quote unquote bad guy that vinces in this movie, where he

is very bossy towards her. He uses a gay flour at the beginning of the movie. He yeah, like he's just generally not like the good guy. He says at one point, like whenever he sees Brian washing dishes, He's like, wash my car, and then I'm going to put you in a dress and put you out on the street, which is like, okay, that's like sex worker shaming or I don't even know what you're saying. Vince is I mean, Vince is all a the place and in the way he puts people down his very two thousand one. Um,

what is he in the sandwiches? Yeah, the sandwich he sandwiched crazy or something. That's his whole vibe. I mean that performance, you know, it's a performance where the shirt is doing more work than the man, perhaps even being half a shirt. You know, it's true. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't. In and it all. This reminded me of Matthew Lillard's Mets shirts and hackers and and SLC punk. Honestly, Lillard rocked a mesh for a good six or seven years. There.

I'm gone. Anyways, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back. Let's talk about Letty. She is my cat. It's a face cat. How many nipples does your cat Letty have? Oh my gosh, um, I think it's eight or six? Okay, Sure, it's about feminist, definitely. I mean, she's honestly doing laps around us. I don't know what the funk we're doing over here, my cat. Okay, I'm sorry, now I listen. I'm sorry. I'm still feminist. Letty the character. Yes, I smell skanks alert one of her there. I think

Letty like. I like Letty. I don't know, Fay. I mean, I'm sure you you understand this part better than I do. She dies in the franchise, but then it turns out she's not dead. Okay, so are you just like spoiling everything for everyone? Or yes? No, to be fair, they came out about ten years ago. Yeah, she does die and she does come back. Okay, so I don't I can't vouch for any of that. But in the first in the first movie, I I feel like she is like half stuff I like and half empty girl powered

trophy stuff. It. I'm just like, man, we don't get to see her do any significant driving until the again horribly named Race Wars scene which is not until towards the end of act two. We're like, well into the movie before we see her do anything impressive. And it's really in just one scene where a guy pulls up next to her. He's like, baby, you should be watching from the side. I don't want to get any exhaust on that prudy face. And then she's like, how about

you put your money where your mouth is? And he's like, how about I race you for that sweet little glass? And then I do love this scene. Then she says, if you want to ask, why don't you hit up Hollywood Boulevard, which is another actually took offense to that. I mean that was a direct day at you. I felt like it. And then and then Michelle Rodriguez puts on that sunglasses and you're like, there there's a lot of nuance to her performance. I really like Michelle Rodriguez

as I love her. She's I mean, I really enjoy her. Liam Neice and comments aside, which she retracted, so it's all good. I don't know, yeah, I mean, look it up. It's not relevant to this discussion, but she's great. So she she's like, Okay, I'll bet you two thousand dollars whoever wins this race, and then she wins, and we're supposed to be like we girl power. I'm so empowered

because a woman one, which, to be fair, I am. However, However, it has no narrative importance, no importance, and and you can't just have one tiny glimpse of a woman's empowerment in a movie and then have the rest of the movie showing women who were sidelined objectified like all that stuff. Sorry, Caitlin, have you seen a blockbuster before? Of course you can do. I misspoke. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I know, I do. I totally agree. Like I really liked that scene and

that was like the whatever. I guess that's the line of cheesy girl power stuff that I'm like, Okay, that scene I can handle, and I I appreciate the gesture, but it doesn't if you take that scene out of it. I'm glad it's there, but if you took it out, nothing about the movie would be different, which just means that she's not, you know, given enough to do that

makes her critical to that plot. And then at the end during the climactic, I guess it's not even the climax because the climax is the race between Dom and Brian at the end with the train, the sensitivity, the final the heist, the final heist at the end. Volume was at eleven during the last I'm glad that like Letty is allowed to be a part of like the Heist Gang. I guess if you're gonna have criminals, you might as well let a woman be a criminal too.

And it is good that, like, I mean, I wish that we got to see her skill more and the movie, but it is repeated by a bunch of different characters how how skilled she is, and like what an important part of the group she is, even though we don't like to see it that much in this movie, but I appreciate. But then she's the one who crashes, so it's like, all right, well, I mean, I guess it could have been anybody, but you've got to make the woman crash the car during not going to be Yea

right or Leon whoever? The car who is I don't know which guy is that he never comes back. He's the one who sort of looks like Vince. I couldn't tell them apart for the first hour and twenty minutes of the movie, but he's like a nicer Vince basically right, and then also Jesse, there's like that loose backstory for him where he's like a genius hacker and he's like, I could have gone an M I T, but I have a d D. Anyways, I'm a street racer now and you're just like I this journey. Oh okay, fine,

I mean back to Letty. She's Dom's trophy, he says it. She hot list of things, and I'm like, man, she deserves better the whole like jealousy arc of I smell Skanks very two thousand one, and just as like your boyfriend who's flirting with these women, be mad at him, not mad at the various Monica's. He just approached the flock of Monica's that Vin Diesel takes around with him wherever he goes. Um. I think that Letty like she is objectified in some ways, but not in the same

way that all the Monicas are. The Monica's, I think, are the most egregious example of just complete like they're just framing is set dressing like so much male gays, so many like lingering shots of the camera on women's butts and breasts in the costuming in the case of Letty, though, I would argue that in their scenes together, Dom and Letty are equally sexualized because there is some like, yes she's wearing a tank top, Yes, her titties are all the way up. Yes we see her but get grabbed

in a shot. But we are also seeing Vin's oily muscle, We're seeing his like shiny head, Like I like in those scenes because I did say his shiny head. You just wait. You think you see shine, now just wait until the rock gets involved. Literally part of the drinking game is just full down your beer. Anytime he's the only one shiny, it's insane, how sweaty, because I don't know he is just listening. They make a joke in one of the later movies that he is always just

covered in baby oil, so it becomes referenced. It's how intense it is. It's I mean, and it's it's intense in the first one too. So it was like in there, there is that one horny scene Vin and Michelle and they're fucking near a car because you can't resist. They're fast, they're furious, um, and in that scene, I was like,

they're both sexualized. And so that specific scene for me was kind of like, Okay, I guess that was just like a hot blockbuster sex scene, right, because I mean the target demographic of these movies are teen boys, young men, the boys of any age really and right, So it's like, well, we need an example of like a really fucking cool, hot but like not too hot but hot enough manly man who's studiedly Paul Walker, who's too hot, too hot,

too curious. So yeah, we like, you know, I guess they need to throw in an impressive man who the boys who these movies are targeted for can be like, oh man, he's still cool. I want to be just like a boy. Vin Diesel. Yeah, the whole first movie just like makes me hope more for Letty in subsequent installments. So, FAE, how do you feel Letty's character progressive? Do you like it? Do you not like it? Well? I definitely do like

her character. She gets a lot more exposition, you get a lot more of like her and Vin's relationship, and I think he treats her really well. I don't think I think it's like a very their unequal playing field. They're both part of the team in the same capacity, and I think they're both well respected I didn't really think about in terms of like her being this damsel that does need to be rescued, because that's like the entire plot when she comes back to life basically, and

so she gets fridged and then unfridged. She basically they fake her death to use her as a pawn against vin Um, so she gets like brainwashed. So even while she is a damsel, she's like this badass sort of supervillain like, so I guess I never really like thought of her that she is definitely like in a space to be rescued, but she's not weak. She's still the main character, and like, I don't know, so up for discussion.

But um, does the movies? Does the franchise get any better in terms of like, because so many shots of this movie are just like sweeping shots of like women's bodies and like them being like framed as the trophies for the cool fast boys who win the race. Does that get any better or is it still it does not? That's just part of them, that's I think from what I know about this world, it's like somewhat a part

of the culture. But like there are moments where they become kind of more self aware about it, like when gal Gadote becomes part of the cast. Because Gal Gadote becomes a part of the cast and she's like an incredible racer and she um there's a part where she uses her sexuality to like her at andage, like it becomes a little bit more like self aware. But I mean, people go see the movies for like this fun romb

and for the hot girls. I mean there's a moment like about seventy minutes into the movie where people are spraying a woman's ass with a shower nozzle and then she shakes her titties around while wearing a wet white tank top. Seems consensual and to Michelle Rodriguez's credit, in two thousand and seventeen, when Fate came out the Fate of the Furious eight one, she posted on Instagram the day that it was released on DVD. Very important to call back, she said, quote, the Fate of the Furious

is out digitally today. I hope they decided to show some love to the women of the franchise in the next one, or I might just have to say goodbye to a loved franchise. It's been a good ride and I'm grateful for the opportunity that fans and studios have provided over the years. One Love. Has there been a Fast and the Furious since the Fate of the Furious. No, So yeah, that was the last one, so I guess it kind of remains to be seen whether they will hear her on that. But she is in the next one,

so hopefully that means that. I mean, even for for a franchise like this, even a small step, and it seems like the addition of like the gal Gadot character and like letting Letty do more that they're edging in the right direction. But I thought it was cool for like a major star to Yeah, and I will say for like the longevity of these movies are like in the canon of them, every woman does appear to be in charge of her. She makes a choice, Like no

women forced into this. Yeah, she has agency. No woman is like forced to be this side show car skank or whatever. It's like, Yeah, these the women are where they want to be, doing what they want to be doing. And there's I think a lot to say to that. There's like nothing feels like cringe e to me when you're like this woman doesn't seem to have the ability

to say no to her situation. Sure, right, yeah, I mean I hope that it's And it almost like seems like a kind of a clever screenwriting a hack that's employed there where the women are like they do question things. Sometimes they have like somewhat realistic, like Mia is really frustrated and deceived another fun man deceives the object of his interest for the majority of the movie trope that

we love. But at least that, yeah, like they do have agency, and they do Ultimately they make the choice, Am I going to go with what either Paul Walker or Vin Diesel wants or not? Conveniently for the screenplay, she usually chooses to do what the male protagonist wanted her to do. Any Yes, she's also doing so much.

Mia is doing so much emotional throughout the whole movie because she's constantly breaking up fights and like having to deal with this creep Vince who likes her and then like trying to divert that away, and like Dom's always like pissing people off, So she's always like stop fighting, and she's just doing a lot and it shouldn't the burden shouldn't be on her to have to do all this stuff, but she's constantly just being like, got it out,

don't do that. That that continues, and in fact it gets even like the labor sheep, but then is like more and more because she becomes like a wife and a mom, and it's just like she's constantly pleading with them to not go into these dangerous situations where they are weirdly in charge of protecting the entire national security. Well, I love how this takes continue insane. They're the most fast and furious of all the people, the best to the protect us, and it becomes clear. Okay, I have

a quick update on the Michelle Rodriguets think. There was some questions of whether she would appear and Fastened the Furious nine that was resolved just a couple of weeks ago. They confirmed she is going to be in Fast nine, but she refused to sign her contract until they had signed a female screenwriter to Oh my God, is my cat? Isn't that that is the best choice I ever made?

So yeah. Slash Film reported that she confirmed she will be back for Fast and the Furious nine after holding out until a female screenwriter was brought on for the sequel. That means universal has hired a female writer for this franchise for the first time ever, but as of now, the identity of this elusive female screenwriter has not been announced. It's me, Jamie, It's me. I don't have a driver's license, but I'm writing Fast and Furious nine. Let's just see

if they're pay them the same amount. Oh good point, but anyways, shouts out to Michelle Rodriguez, Feministic a queer icon. Yes, we love her. Indeed, should we talk a little bit about the male friendship that the toxic masculinity that is present in the homo erotic tension. The greasy boys are very close, the looks they give each other. I think this might be like one of the giggest movies that exists.

I mean, there's a lot written about like the use of homo eroticism, and I mean, and it is employed in action movies pretty frequently, and there's so many franchises that sort of play this. I mean, it is like queer bating to an extent. It's not I don't know, it's weird. Like in the Fact of the Furious it's

never what they're saying. It's just like how they're looking at each other and how they're interacting with each other while they're saying it, like there is a way for Vin Diesel to make that I would say, incredible monologue at the end about how he doesn't care about anyone in his life except his car, and his car is his wife, and his wife is his wife. Yeah, his

his car wife. And but like the way that him and Paul Walker looking at each other through it, you're just like, oh, they're just like there is a connection here, like the way like male friendship, the male friendships are

more important than the romantic relationships. Yes, and the movie cares more about the relationship between Brian and Vince and like reconciling that because like Brian starts off on on Vince's bad side and stays there for most of the movie, but then when he saves him at the end and then it calls in the helicopter to save his life, like that's him being like, oh, finally, like maybe Vince

will like me now. And the movie cares more about reconciling that relationship than it does about developing any of the female characters or like any of those relationships. So there, it's that's a tricky thing with this because there are like, we haven't talked about a lot of things in this franchise that I think are generally good for the world. It is one of the most diverse blockbuster franchises in existence. That's really cool. Michelle Rodriguez is a woman of color,

and she is like the female lead. She's a queer female of color, which is I mean, which was not known in two thousand and one. But still, I mean, that's cool. I do always like and I don't know, I mean you you'll know more about how like the

male friendships develop. I wouldn't say that the male like that Brian and Dom's relationship is like healthy, but there is, you know, they're just mostly like look at my pipes, like there I can't like, I can't say I love you, so I'm gonna make you intense second car like there is that like weird repression in there. But I do appreciate when attention is given to male male friendships. I

enjoy that too. And I will say, and I think I talked about this a bit on our Lord of the Rings episode, but I think there's a tendency to see a close male friendship in a movie and then automatically assigned homo eroticism to it, because I don't know if it's just because we're so used to not seeing positive male friendships and movies and it's like, oh, well, if two men are closed, there must be some underlying homo eroticism there, right, which I know maye that may

be true for some male friendships, and it isn't a lot of the time. So I feel like, I don't know. I feel like it maybe doesn't disservice sometimes to be like two men who are close, well, then there there's it's sexy. I agree with that, But in the case

of this franchise, well, I think it's pretty homorotic. I think because these movies are so enveloped in Vin Diesel, and he is a producer on them, and he has such like a staunch say and what goes on in them, And then you look at his off screen relationship with Paul Walker and it's sort of like the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, Like he is just they're genuinely

the best of friends. Vin Diesel. If you follow him on social media, he has an ongoing hashtag Toretto Tuesday, where he posts a photo of him and Paul Walker together. He named his kid Pablo after him. He um is constantly talking about how much he misses Paul Walker. Who I mean, I think every listener probably knows what he did pass away a couple of years ago. Like everything

Vin does seems to be a tribute to him. And I just think like it kind of makes me regret mentioning this like joke of homoroticism because I genuinely think they were like brothers and I think that's explored in the movies and kind of I think a lot of my like perception of it is skewed by what I see outside of the movies. But they just genuinely like their brotherhood is I think something we never get to see. It's two dudes that are just really good friends, yeah,

and like really care about each other. And I could be mistaken. I'm sure someone like in the comments will let me know, But I do think they say they love each other in the movies. I'm like almost under percent sure. I mean, hopefully at some point they've been together for ten years and they're just like I'm gonna get UTENSI car any day now, because uh, yeah, I don't know. I mean, in general, I think that it's

it's good. I think that I don't. I mean, we can't really speak to this because we're a bunch of straight ladies. Uh so all of our queer listeners please give us insights. I think that there's elements of both employed and there are in a lot of this genre, but in general, I mean, any example, for like young Men that like normalizes male male friendship, and it seems

like this franchise does pretty well with that. So yeah, they don't show away from it for like fear of maybe like being like perceived in some sort of I don't know. It's the core concept of the movies' is like brotherhood, and I guess more like overall familiar because I do think that the women are just as important, like plot wise and like development wise. Yeah, so there's like a whole lot of butts, but then there's a whole lot of love. Vince like that character, Yeah, he's

you don't he's not really the one. Know, he's in a few more, but he's like by no means a vital character. You get ludicrous in the next one, which him and then Tyrese are they come into the team. Um. Yeah, and then every every film has like this iconic like getting a team together montage, which is my favorite trope of any movie. It's those are good montage. Not all

tropes are bad. I don't know a montages like my kryptonite, like Jamie, like what you were saying, the diversity in this movie, it's like Vin Diesel identifies as a person of color. Um, there are some I mean this kind of struck me where the first two groups that the FBI identifies as suspects of the hijackings are Hector's group, which are I think all Latin X men, and then

Johnny trans group, which are all Asian men. So it's like, oh, these people of color are the criminals, but I would also people the hero, the good guys, who are also criminals, and because they're the shiniest one, you know, Yeah that's true,

that's true. But yeah, this is uh. I mean, considering so many franchises, so many action movies and movies in general are made up of almost entirely white people, this movie does do quite a bit better in terms of you know, like racial fir City a big like tenant of van like producing these movies, and I think why they do so well, like internationally is he tries to get actors involved that are like really iconic in different countries. So like Tokyo Drift has I don't know the actor's name,

but the han is the character's name. He's like a big Jap and he's actor, and then they get Gagado. Chis is really and like, I just like really commend him for his even I don't know, maybe if his intentions are more like capitalistic and like box office numbers, I want to think more of him and think like he just like really embodies these kind of values of familia. But I could be giving him way too much credit and just be like such a sucker for these movies

I can't see bad. I mean that's so it sounds general to me. It seems like the cast of this movie for all like the fun drama clickbait that I've read about it. In general. I mean it seems like they try to do right by each other. I mean, I'm still like super impressed by like Michelle Driguez using her platform like responsibly and to get other women work. And I mean what Vin Diesel, I mean that sounds like it makes business sense and kind of helps everyone

to uh. So, like I'm not going to fault him for that. Yeah, I don't know I appreciate this franchise. It's just too loud for me. I'm gonna say, I don't appreciate this franchise nearly as much. And granted I have been exposed to almost none of it, but to me, I mean, I think there's too much of a focus on like the male friendship and the eight and we

Gotta Stick Together. And yes, women are present, but I think at least in in the first one, and I would imagine in the later films that they could be included more meaningfully because I mean, but it also matters like they're fridged and and and stambled at a higher rate. And also and and the ratio of men to women I think remains pretty unequal where it's still mostly men.

Also just that these movies seem to largely be about kind of like men proving that they're awesome and fast, which like translates to who of us is the more manly, the faster you are, the more mucho you're the best man. So and there's so many scenes where like men are like, Okay, who's the faster, who's the best man? And I'm just

like I don't care. Yeah, well, if you don't care about that, these are I just think that, like for hyper masculine franchise, I mean, I will I'm sorry if I cannot make the argument that this is even remotely a feminist franchise, Like that argument is kind of off the table for me. But like in terms of like is it a net positive thing for the world, I think that there's like certain areas of it that could be argued as as a positive as far as an

action franchise goes. I mean, well seriously that it's like, if you have a gigantic action franchise, would you rather it be core in male friendship and like has a hugely diverse cast, or would you rather they make more

like Blade Runner movies? Like I do think like in this specific genre, I feel like there's a lot of positive I think that's maybe it why I give it so much credit, because I do love action movies, so then you you kind of have to narrow it down to action movies, and then in that genre, this is I think one of the greater ones. Do I want an equally diverse female action franchise? Hell yeah, but I do. But honestly, though if it was really loud, I still might not see it. You got to get that check

out digital listen. I know, I know why it's that diet nas. I have permanent frame damage from my diet nas. But there's I don't know. I think that there's definitely pros and cons. Sure, I don't hate that it exists the way I hate that other franchises exist. And that's kind of all you can hope from someone that you don't hate it exists, right right, I don't know. I mean it's but I also I'm like, you know, if we're going into like as a as a young boy better or worse off for having seen a Fast in

the Furious movie, I don't know. I don't think that they would have more respect for women. In fact, they may have less. Yeah, I mean considering. I mean, like I said, there's so many shots of this movie are just like, look at these hot women who are again framed as literal trophies, like they are the prizes to

be one. They're wearing next to nothing. You know, they're just so heavily objectified that I think, you know, the people seeing this are like, oh, women are prizes except for the one cool one who's my sister, and the other cool one who's my girlfriend. And they're only cool because they know how to drive good. I didn't feel like this movie does more net negative than positive, but I don't know. It's also from two thousand one. Yeah, I don't know. I faye where you I mean, I

guess we know where you fall generally. Yeah, I mean, I don't. I think I'm it's hard to like detract this movie from the rest of them, So I'm thinking franchise wide, like it's more of a net positive. I don't think a young boy would necessarily leave with more respect for women. But I don't think that the movie degrades women quite to the extent that Caitlin saying, or maybe that you see in the first one, which I do upon like rewatch and note taking realize it's like

a little bit more gramm than I had been remembering. Yeah, I mean, I think this this at least speaking to this one, I don't think it does very well except for some elements of Letty and like one element of me um. I don't know. I mean, I also like fully understand that's not what people go to these movies for.

Like it's not it's not. I don't know, there's certainly I guess for me, like sometimes I would prefer a movie that is so clearly not trying to like be a feminist movie than a movie that's like this is Ones for the ladies and it's just fucking hollow and sending that messages, because what's worse to me would be we're going to remake Fast and Furious but with all women or something that to me is like more degrading, being like, oh, women just want to see an identical

film but just featuring women. It's like, no, we can see movies with men, and that just the women should have development and personalities and names and speak to each other, and women should get their own original franchises, like please

stop doing all family reboots, please please place. I think so much of like what I'm conditioned to think is like well, like it could be so much worse, Like so I think I came into it more like a little bit aggressively, like these are feminist films because it could be so much worse, but obviously like more dissecting, and it's like we could do better. I can for sure do better. I just I I yeah, with like

the all female reboots stuff. I just when that was first happening, I didn't really think about it and I was like, oh, cool, like it sounds fun. But then kind of in retrospect now it's just like, okay, well that sort of sets the precedent that every every franchise needs to be beta tested with men first to see if, like you know, like it has to be so. And then every time that happens, uh, you know, the redditors come out of the woodwork to just like ruin Lives.

So I think just give them in their own friend especially because, like I mean, the ones that people aren't really talking about that much as being all filmale reboots. But like that movie The Hustle that came out was essentially a reboot of Dirty Rotten Scandals. The Hustle was not a good movie. Little was a reboot of Big, also not a good movie. What Men Want was a reboot of What Women Want, also not a good movie.

They're like, it's just like good original stories featuring women, and don't try to like take movies that had been commercial successes and reboot them. And it's like women, because you're not doing a good job, Hollywood, and it's sabotages women and female leads in the end too, because when those movies don't do well, it's like, oh, well, people don't want to see movies with women in them, and it's just like, no, we just don't want to see the same movie that we didn't like the first time,

Like why would anyone want there? Oh side, So does this movie pass the Bechdel tests? Apparently it does. I think it might. Okay. There are two instances where women interact at all in the entire movie. One is where Letty comes in to Toretto's and says to Mia, how you living? Girl? Mia does not respond. Second one is the one we've talked about a few times already, where Letty goes up to the two women who are hanging on which the seven different Monica's, and she says, I

smell skanks. Why don't you girls pack it up before I leave treadmarks on your face? The one who had been named Camille says okay and walks away. I love that she responds. She responds and just like, okay, good, good point, honestly, But I mean, if you're going to pass the Bectel test, it should be And I don't think it's a threat from one woman to another and using a sort of derogatory where that's almost attack women skanky. Wow, wow, so feminist film. I'm truly like they really, they really

did it to us. They really those little sneaky, those sneaky little bastards. They made it past the actel test. That I mean, okay, I take it all back. Feminist text, the fast and the feminist feminist. Let's write the movie on our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women two and a half. Really, yeah, she's okay right in the middle. Who are you? Who are you giving your nipples to? Do you have any defense of the point before? Kaitlin and you all know

where I stand. You know, it could be worse, And that's my that's my final thought Summer Summer two thousand one. It could. Yeah. I'm going to give two of my nipples to Michelle Rodriguez and her Instagram posts and the half to my cat Letty. Yes, a true, a true icon,

an ally and an absolute ally. I'm going to give this movie a half nipple because even though there are two female characters who are significant characters in the story, they're really only framed as the love interests or girlfriends of the male characters, who the movie is way more concerned about developed being as individuals and as relationships the male friendship to each other. We see them not really

get to participate as much as I would like. Uh, And it's not until fairly late into the movie that we get to see them really doing anything at all that has any narrative impact. Um. I mean, like one of the ways that like Brian and Vince like try to exert dominance over each other is like trying to claim ownership of Mia, Like they're like Mia is like the object of affection and everyone's just like, but she's mine. Um.

So there's just all these different things. Yes, it is good that we have a more racially diverse cast than we are used to seeing in movies of this nature, But I just think that, I mean, between the underdeveloped female characters who we do get to know, and then the rest of any woman who we see on screen is clearly just there as like hyper sexualized, objectified set dressing just doesn't really do the gender any service. So I'm gonna go with a half nipple, and I'm going

to give that half nipple too. I suppose Michelle Rodriguez for advocating that women be more meaningful and more meaningful part of this story in the much much later movies of this franchise, I'm going to do you a I'm gonna do one and give it a one. I I do think that there are positive elements of this franchise in general as it pertains to gender, especially this movie specifically, not that much. There is the way that women are framed.

The way the camera frames women in this movie is like super sexual and to the point where it's like funny, which should never be the case. It's really weird. Uh. The sound check sucks a job. It's too it's too loud. But yeah, I think that some elements of the male friendships, the very racially diverse cast, and the fact that there is at very least a queer woman of color helming the token girl in the franchise. Her character's head row

as far as we can tell. But but in terms of like represent I mean I think that her like being openly queer and still being in a major franchise is progress so basically only because of Michelle Rodriguez, because it seems like there has never been a woman behind the camera of a fast and furious production based on the credits of this movie. But for the things that we're given, I'm gonna give it one nippy and give it. Give you back to Michelle Room Baby Room on that

say thank you so much for being here. I think I begged you to let me do this and I kind of got torn apart. But a lot of times, yeah, sometimes, and I'm not going to stop watching. That's what this podcast is all about. You're still allowed to love the things you love. I just we just encourage people to examine the things that they love critically. Oh to close, Actually a fae, would you mind sharing the drinking game

with us? Okay, yeah, so I will name a couple of things I remember that are notable, and I want to give a shout out to my friends Zach Cornfeld who helped develop this game with me. Um, So you drink any time the rock is so so sweaty and no one else's anytime vin is wearing sleeves. Oh a gratuitous butt shot. Um. Especially in the movie where they go to Brazil, they have the same b roll shot of the there's like a big statue. Um. They show that about fifteen times, so you're going to want to

drink every time. They kind of Jesus statue. I think it's a I think maybe merrist it's incredibly feminist. Um, what are smarther things? Anytime, like sort of a henchman dies, A lot of people die, and it's it's sort of unrecognized. I would say in the first one, Well, I don't know if those deaths count to your discretion. You may drink or you may not. UM. And anytime they just straight up to five physics. Um, as I said, the

stakes get higher and higher. There are trained scenes, there are there are cliffs, there are airplanes, there are parachutes. You're going to get pretty drunk later on. UM. Let me think if there's like a final one. I can you know if anyone wants to d m me, I'll send them the PDF. But the highlights, oh, anytime you do think, um, either Vin in the Rock or Vin and Brian are going to make out, but they don't, right, they get really close, like physically and emotionally. I feel

like there are some charge scenes. YEA, so happy drinking, happy drinking? And where can we where can we find you in the world Wide Web? Um? I am at fay or love on everything, and then the Junior High space is at Junior High l a also on everything on Hollywood Boulevard. Yes, and physically we exist as a space on Hollywood Boulevard where the skanks hang out and say hi. I mean we're all out there. I'm always there on Hollywood Boulevard because I am personally a skank. Yeah,

skanks welcome. Actually we might make new shirts welcome, accepted and applauded. Yes, and you and you make you design things. You've got stickers and and and items that you should. I know, I didn't bring you gifts this time. I got to make more fast. I'm Jewish, so it's actually, uh yeah, I have to make some more merch. I have to be careful with the merch I make because I do get called out a lot because I have

a lot of problematic phaves, mostly their Kardashians. But I think even and Paul retrospective mug could be called for. Oh sure, yeah, since you just got to choose the moment. Yeah, that's all. But thank you so much for of course,

thanks for being here our stuff. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Although do I ever go on that website hardly ever, not to break, but um yeah, check us out on writing reviews on iTunes if you so choose, especially if you want to give us, you know, five nips oh liker, Yes, on the on the planet. It took me a second, it's been a long day. Yeah,

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because of course you do. Yeah, so yeah, check out check out all our merch We've got We've got it all and until next time, friends, true beam and break. Bye