The Farewell with Atsuko Okatsuka

say that because I funny story. I used to tell people that their health was fine and it it wasn't. It literally wasn't really, But when you tell it to me, I'm like, okay, makes sense. Yeah, I think I think you should just believe me because I'm definitely telling the truth. Okay, yeah, do you want to go to lunch? Yeah, let's go to lunch. Okay, awesome, perfect Intra ten out of ten, amazing.

Welcome to the Beach. Del asked, I'm Jamie Loftus, I'm Caitlin Durante, and this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens. We promised that intro is relevant to today's discussion, but if it weren't, that would be really funny that I just opened every episode just being like, Jamie, you're in good health, right, And I was like, sorry, everyone, Caitlin is my doctor. She's my pediatrician. I still go to my pediatrician and it's Caitlin.

How long did you go to your pediatrician? Um, my pediatrician was also an adult doctor, Mark, So I did go to That's just what they told to you. True. I did go to the same doctor for the first eighteen years of my life. I went to the pediatrician until I was twenty two, and he was like, you need to get out of here, like they gave you a heart out there, like you, ma'am, you could have a child at this point and you need to leave. I would never do that for you, Jamie. Thank you

so much. I want to be thirty and still at my pediatric SIP, but some things just cannot be. Yeah, well, anyway, so what is this podcast? What's happening? We use the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation about representation in film. The Bechtel Test being a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, and there are many

variations on the test. The one that we are using these days requires that two named characters of any marginalized gender speak to each other, and the conversation has to be about something besides a man, and ideally it is a meaningful plot, relevant narrative, really relevant conversation and not just like here's your soup, okay, thanks, unless the soup is unless it's like, unless the soup is poisoned, in which case that is relevant. That is very important. Yeah, right, exactly,

so you know, there's there's their shades of gray. It's all. It's all about the context and the subtext, you know, the soup text. Um amazing, we have. We have an incredible movie today. Popular request has been since the movie was released. And equally, if not even more incredible guest that I think, I think let's go. You're in like that, we should like send you a jacket. At this point, I think that you've entered jacket territory of how often you've been on the show. I want to send all

of our frequent guests jackets. Oh yes, and yeah, as goes three time return this is third time returning guest jacket, tier, I would love that. Do you have jackets? We don't, but we'll make some. I want one of those, yeah, like like one of those, like like football jackets. Are you cold, babe? And then you're like, but I want one of those jackets, I mean like a letter a letterman jacket, football jacket. Well, for you all, I am cold, babe. Put me on the waiting list for when you do

make them. Oh my god, we sure will. So this, of course, is comedian creator of Ohio and Let's Go, Out's Go. You know her from our episodes on Shrek and Austin Powers, so lots of Mike Myers. It's Okotska. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for making me not do a Mike Myers again. Yeah, we we should say. I read at the top that, uh, Let's Go is not asking to do Mike Meyers susies this all time. Thank you, thank you so much. But it's just like been throughout the years, you know, so

I'm just afraid, like it's too late, Jamie. I just feel like, you know, because I feel like I did Shrek with you all like years ago, and then I come back years later and I'm you know, people are like, oh god, Austin Powers, and then you know what I'm saying, Like for years now, I think it's it's part of your brand. Unfortunately you love Mike Myers. Yeah, basically what happened is a while back, we wanted to do an episode on Shrek, and we reached out to you and

we just kind of like floated it. Were like, whatever movie you want to cover, but also we do want to cover Shrek if that's a funny interest to you, and you were like, sure, let's do Shrek. We also years later wanted to do an Austin Powers episode and then we were like, let's go. Wouldn't it be so funny if you came back? But now we've tarnished your brand. And you know what's weird is you came to me this time and you gave me a break. Right. It's like I just started getting good at saying no, like

like this year, and so it sucks. I couldn't like practice that even for this I was ready for you all to ask me again, you know, whichever it was Shrek three year or whatever, you know, and I was ready to say no this time. But then you'll switched it on me, we did. Uh. So today's movie is The Farewell, which is not even remotely a Mike Myers movie, not even close. So let's go, what's your relationship with The Farewell besides creating it, besides directing it? Um No.

I actually avoided watching this movie for a long time because I'm super close with my grandma, and so I was like, so scared, and I didn't I hadn't heard the this American life story of the film, right, and so I was like, I don't know if my heart can take this movie just from even like that trailer, and I was like, oh, Grandma gonna die. I don't know if I could deal with that. And I was telling people this too, like I'm scared to watch it. Folks who have seen it. None of them told me, wait,

this is going too far. And I know this podcast is full of spoilers, but I don't know if I want to say it already spoiler alert everyone. Yeah, people know that they're going to get spoilers, so yeah, I feel free to spoil away. No one told me for years. So I watched it like two years after it had been released. I was like, fuck it, I'm just gonna do it. You know. Um, and I was I was like, wait, no one told me that she doesn't die, right, And

I was I was telling people that's my fear. And they were like, uh huh huh, yeah, sure we get it, uh huh. And I was like, what are you trying to do protect me from spoilers? I'm telling you, like, you know what I'm saying, you could have helped me. That's so it's like they're making a choice between spoilers and your emotional well being. That's what I'm saying, Jamie. It's messed up. So many people do this with spoilers, right, Like there's a special place and help for people who

spoil movies and TV shows, right. I learned the hard way because I tweeted about this. I said, y'all didn't tell me Grandma never dies, you know. And some people thanked me because they were like, you know what, this is why I haven't been watching this movie. Now I can go watch it and protect my heart and you know, not feel like left out from the cinematic experience, you know. But most of the people were like, fuck you, why just spoil it. I'm like, it's been two years, okay, right,

you had time Also, I don't know. I think if I guess, I did not know that she lives at the end going into the movie, But I don't know that would have like changed my experience of the movie that much. I think I would have just felt a little calmer going in. Yeah, right, and that's okay, I mean, I'm up type of I really don't mind spoilers because like I feel everything too much and I'll like think about it for for a long time, sometimes months, and

so um, yeah, I like going into a thing calmer. Yes, give it to me. And it's not even like an enormous twist where like, you know, it's like I would have never seen that coming. It's like either she did die or she didn't, and it's like those are the two options. And like a twist would have been if Aquafina was dead the whole time, that would have been a twist it or like if nine I was just a projection of Aquafina's subconscious that's a twist that she

never even existed or something. I would be so pissed at both of those scenarios. Yeah, farewell, who's saying farewell me from this movie? Wherever? Okay, but yeah, that's I got to the movie way too late, and I had no one to talk about it is my relationship with a farewell, you know. By then everyone was like over it, well not us, not now we're here currently talking under it. Yes, yeah, thank you, thank you so much, just just in time

for may you know. Yeah, Jamie, what about your relationship? Uh? Yeah. I did not see this movie when it came out because I was away the end. I went to brag, I went to Edinburgh Fringe the summer this movie came out, and so I just wasn't in the US when it was in theaters, so I didn't see it at the time. And then my my grandma died shortly after that, and then I was like, I don't think I want to see a movie where the grandma dies for a little bit.

So again it's like, yeah, if if you if I knew she lived at the beginning, I probably I also am not super bothered by spoilers, so I'm like, I probably would have watched it like a year ago if if I had known that, like you fall in love with nine I and then she's okay, and it's great, But yeah, I just watched it to prepare for this um for this episode, and I really really liked it. I thought, I think it's like such a good movie, and the performances in this movie are so incredible, and yeah,

I'm excited to talk about it. Same. I did see it in theaters when it came out summer of twenty nineteen, because it was it was getting some buzz and everyone's like, it's really good. So I used my AMC stubs membership incredible plug. Yeah, yeah, I saw it in theaters and really enjoyed it, and I was very endeared by the

story and the character's relationships. So yeah, should we you know, I'm starting to see why we went with why you all went with Mike Myers, Like when you got when you do enjoy something, it's it's just nice, you know. And it's like, well, um, let's just do the Bechdel test now and we're done with the episode, and everyone's like, well,

it was really nice, the performances nice, and we enjoyed it. Okay, well not nothing problematic, right, Like, Honestly, my notes for this are very sparse because I'm just like, I really liked it and it's good. At the end. I have multiple smiley faces in my notes. I'm like, I, yeah, we definitely thrive in the all cap zone of like, what the fucker's there? I know. I'm like, oh, yeah, you know what. Yeah, I take it back. Yeah, let's pivot right now. We're gonna do Shrek forever after No,

there's gotta be stuff. There's stuff, Okay, all right, we'll find that. Sorry for interrupting, not not at all. Should we just get into the recap and go from there? Yeah, that's good. So this is a true story based on quote an actual lie. So it's like autobiographical of writer director Lulu Wang's life in relationship with her grandmother. Um So we meet Billy played by Aquafina. She lives in New York City. Ever heard of it? Yes, you have it.

I did kind of jump where there's like scenes of Aquafina walking through New York, obviously not wearing a mask, and I'm like, I need to like deprogram myself because I was like, but wait, it's actually it's actually fine and she's fine. Yeah. It's also where she's like you know that, like, um, that demeanor Aquafina is known for. I feel like she got to do that just when

she was in New York A little bit. Yeah, this is just a performance wise, you know where she's like, hey girl, hey, I feel like that she did that to a friend she recognized in the streets of New York busy New York, right, and then I feel like she had to shift performances for you know later on. Um, but so that was that was interesting. Yeah, but yes, new York City. UM, me too, me too. I've heard

of it. Well, we've all heard of it. Amazing. Aquafinas performances is so great and this movie and it also it's always like the performance that's like a comedian that's like I'm serious now, Like it's like that performance for her. I feel like there comes a day and every like big famous comedian life where they're like, but guess what I've got range And you're like, all right, yeah, yeah, are you talking about Adam Sandler Sandler moment because her

uncut gems? Oh my gosh, that movie. I was actually thinking this is probably even more embarrassing. I was thinking about Robin Williams a Goodwill hunting got it. Yeah, it's a trend. It's a trend. Um. So Billy is talking on the phone with her Grandma nine I played by I'm going to do my best with pronunciations. Umjoo schus

in uh. Nine I lives in China, And then we established that they tell little white lies to each other pretty frequently, including when nine I tells Billy that she's at her sister's house when she's really at a hospital getting a CT scan, and then nine i sister speaks to the doctor. Then her sister tells NINEIGHT that she's in good health. Then we meet Billy's mom and dad, lu Jane and high End. They reveal to Billy that her nine I is actually dying of stage four lung cancer.

She's high End's mother, yes yes, yea um, and that she has no more than three months to live. But nine I doesn't know that she's dying, and the family thinks it's better to not tell her because it's a common cultural practice in China to not tell an elderly family member that they are dying, although Billy thinks it's wrong to not tell her um. So, Billy's family is heading to China the following day for Billy's cousins wedding, which is just an excuse so that everyone can go

and see nine I before she dies. They also tell her. They tell Billy not to come. They're like, you, you have a terrible poker face and you're not invited. But then Billy goes anyway, like I think, Like a few days after her family has arrived and she gets there and her grandma is like, you look really sad. What's wrong?

And she has to pretend like everything is fine, And her family keeps telling Billy like, do not tell grandma, and she keeps being like, well, what if nine I has things she wants to take care of before she dies. Then after a big family dinner, nine I is coughing a lot and she ends up going to the hospital,

so the entire family rushes there. She gets some X rays and the doctor confirms the most families in China would choose not to tell their grandma that they are dying, which Billy challenges and says, again, isn't it wrong to lie? Won't she be upset when she eventually does find out she's dying, and the family is like, no, because nine I did the same thing. She lied to her dying husband and didn't help tell him until the very end

of his life. Um. And then the family goes and visits Billy's grandfather's grave, and then her uncle high Band tells Billy that they're withholding this information because they are bearing the emotional burden for nine I because the East just has a greater focus on community and like a person being part of a larger hole, while the West, which is what Billy is used to as an American, is more about individualism and like the self and taking

care of one's self. Then it's time for the big wedding banquet, where different members of the family start like breaking down and crying and saying kind of like a veiled goodbye to nine. I. I mean veiled is questionable too. I mean, when the uncle gives this speech, this is like and of course this wedding is dedicated to my mom for some reason, You're like yeah, and the groom's crying, and I mean the more you the more you summize. I'm like the grandma new Okay, Grandma new right, as

you're not. Now everyone's falling apart around her, right, And it's like we get every hand that she's like really observant and calls people out of their bullshit constantly. So it's like she she knew yeah, and she lied too. To her husband, so like, how would she not the And she's Chinese and lives in China, so she knows this is what people do, right, There's no way she didn't know anyway. She's also gone to the hospital several

times with but are clearly health problems. Yeah, but it's just like a tiny cold every time, or allergies, you know, but we all say that here, right, like that's nothing. That's something like I never hear, like my family say are Like when I was in Asia, allergies is definitely a thing here that people are like, oh, it's just allergies. And I'm like, no, you clearly have I think it's emphysyma and they're like no, it's like it sounds really bad.

And everyone always says it's allergies. Yeah, classic deflection, right right right, and I'm pretty sure you have COVID. They're like, no, no, it's just safe fever. Yeah. It's that season. It's it's

like astrology. It's like Gemini season. Happy Gemini season, everybody. Wow. Um. So Billy is holding it together as best she can, and then nine eyes X ray results come back, so Billy has to rush to the hospital to grab them and then the family has to like alter them so that they say that nine I is indeed in good health. And then it's time for Billy to leave China and say goodbye to nine I, and then she goes back

to New York. But also nine I gives her a bunch of money before she ves, and that was the moment where I'm like, she knows, she knows, She just knows. She's just making sure to not say it out loud because maybe if you don't. Yeah, right, She's like, it might seem like I'm settling my affairs right now. But no, it's just because I gave your cousin a wedding present, so I figured i'd give you some money too. It's only fair. I didn't think about the money part. In fact,

I forgot about it. See this is why I love the summary. You know every time you'll do it. The money part. I was like back and forth the whole movie and like she has to know, right, she has to know. And then when the money part happened, as like she knows, she knows. Hard to side um. But then the movie ends with a video of writer director Lulu Wang's real life nine I, and then there's like a text that says, six years after her diagnosis, nine I is still with us, so she did not die.

She lived, And they were like, who truly that last slide saying that the real life nine I is okay was such a relief. I truly just exhaled. I'm like, Wow, now I can sleep tonight. Amazing. No, well, I didn't sleep because then I was like, well, okay, so I'm watching this two years after those those those titles were written. You know what I'm saying, Why I don't know she's still alive? Also, you know this whole movie came out, Okay, lu lu Wang was at the Golden Globes, right, I'm like, okay,

they're still keeping this a secret. You know what I'm saying. I mean China, Sure, she lives in China, but it's like they have the internet, you know. So I was curious. I went deep diving. What did you find out? I think the Grandma's still alive, but then she kind of has an inkling now or something because of Lulu Wang's

Golden Globe? Did Lulu Wang win? Aquafina wanted something anyway somehow, like she read an article or something like there's a whole ass movie about her, Yeah, like a really famous movie. I read that she found out because of her sister told because they shot the movie like a block away from real life Lulu wangs like her neighbor, like a block away from where she lives, so she found out while they were filmed. But actually that's what I read.

But then I heard lu lu Wang talk in interviews about the movie, and she also made it seem like she still doesn't know. Maybe she just knew that Lu lu Wang made a movie that was about her, but not the details or something. Yeah, a block away. I'm like, all these people are trying to get caught. Okay, these people are trying to They just want to tell each other. And that's what happens when you keep a secret, that's,

you know, a big lie like this. It's like I think you want to tell them and you feel guilty. So you're like, I'm going to just shoot the film a block away from grandma's, you know, and she goes on a walk. She goes on a walk when she goes WK. Yeah, and as the grandma, I'm going to give her the money, you know. Um as if I don't know that I am indeed, you know, have what

what was it stage for lung cancer? Mm hmmm. I feel for these people, you know, just the leaps and bounds and all kinds of things you go through, just like not just tell each other the truth. It's such a burden. Uh, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back to discuss and we're back. Uh, where do you want to start? I know this is like this is an episode where we like mostly have really nice things to say. Um, I have a question for

you too. Yes, if you were to make a movie that about your family and you did not want them to know, how far away would you film from them? I? Uh not in the same state? Okay, Okay, okay, yeah I would. Um, my family and I are separated by around three thousand miles because they all live on the East Coast, So um yeah I feel pretty good about that distance. Okay, cool. Yeah, well okay, so my family really are super offline except for my grandma. So like if it was like if it was about my grandma,

my grandma would know. But if it's other family, I would probably feel safe being Okay, like filming even like you know, in a different area code, but like even southern California or something. That's that's how this connected they are, so I would probably feel safe. Sure, yeah, yeah, even just like twenty minutes away, that's I feel like that's all you need because it's like twenty minutes is just

far enough there. It's like, what are they like it would take a big coincidence for them to stumble upon one block? Really, is that's like edging location? Yeah? Yeah, no exactly, like there's yeah, if it was twenty minutes away, you're right. Unless I texted them like, hey, you know, be here right at this location, meet me for lunch. That's how I send out my call sheet and like meet me here at this six am. It's like a ransom note. Yes, yes, that's so funny. I guess. Yeah.

To to start, I mean, there's just there's so much

to talk about here there. It's like I guess if we start with Billy and like who she is as a character, I mean, we like see her at the beginning, like in this extremely American, like American millennial thing where it's like she's in her late twenties and like struggling as a writer and is applying for all these fellowships and like struggling with any but doesn't want to talk about it, and like all these very recognizable things, and then and then for most of the movie, we're watching

her um kind of like straddle across. I mean, that's the whole movie, as her straddling across the values of two different cultures and like figuring out how she actually feels. It's cool. I feel like there's not a lot of not a lot of movies, especially mainstream movies, UM like this that like even addressed that at all, even though it's a very common, uh, a very common thing. Yeah, is this considered mainstream? You think? I guess I just say mainstream because it got so much a word attention.

Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't know. I mean it's I was interested in, like because there was a whole controversy about this movies, like during awards season

where it was like put in. I feel like this happens all the time, where it was like put in the Best Foreign Language Movie and there wasn't Yeah, at at the Golden Globes and then in the at the Academy Awards that they have different rules, and Lulu Wang talked about it pretty extensively about um, you know, just challenging those decisions and like challenging like this is an American movie, it was made by an American, the you know, the main character is an American. It's an American drama.

But the way the awards shows are built doesn't accommodate a story like this, and like why is that? And I don't know, there's she gave a lot of really interesting interviews that kind of like challenge just I mean, and that's been fortunately, I think like a lot of the last couple of years is just challenging what a shit show and how like extremely rigidly white movie award shows are. And I vaguely remember that being a discussion when when this movie was in the awards season. But

reading the interviews and depth was really interesting. Yeah. Right, it's like what it has to be English spoken or something for I think Golden Globes or something. Um, I do remember that just because it happened again this year, right um with Minari Right Yeah, where it just seems like those categories like need to be revisited and just they need to be modernized basically a new test, a

new test. Well because maybe like y'all's goal is to like one day where the Bechdel Test isn't needed anymore, right or I don't know. I want your podcast to keep going. I mean I feel like as I mean even like between the time the show started and now it's like to come, I mean, not that representation has gotten so wildly better, but it has, like I proved, in the last five years. I think she has been

for five goddamn years. No, yeah, well that's why. Like, but there's so many films to like we visit from like decades ago and stuff, and so there's so many more Shreks. I mean, stop it, there's a fifth one on the way. How many? What? No? Stop, wait, there's a fifth Shrek. Wait. I missed the fourth, and I just found out about the third honestly talking to you all today. Um, and and you you you went to the fifth, So can you just tell me there there's kids?

Is it like about the kids now or something? They start having kids? I think that's the third movie. There's a new generation of Shreks. Yeah, okay, and then what a Shrek forever after? I just remember going on a date in high school Shrek forever after. Yeah, I've seen up to Shrek three. I have not seen Shrek four. There's also like spin off off. There's like a Puss in Boots movie, which I skipped that one. True, Well, that's your mistake. I thought it was a blast uh

Shrek forever. After they break in Rumpels Stiltskin, it's I vaguely remember this, Yeah, expand the universe. That's the the guy who says riddles. I think he wants to steal babies from people. So he's like, give me your I'll spind you some gold, but you have to promise me your first born. Or he's also like, what's my name? What's my name? Kinky? Okay, here's what's my motherfucking name. I'll tell I'll tell you the story of Rumples Stiltskin

and then we'll get back to the farewell. Yeah, I don't I don't think I know this story, and it sounds okay. So Rumpel's Stiltskin. There's like this young maiden who so one's like we need someone to spin this room full of hay into gold or something like that, and she's like, I can do it, and she like makes this promise that she can do it, but it turns out she can. She's like, oh no, what I'm gonna what am I gonna do with this room full of hey or whatever? And then rumpel Stiltskin shows up

and he's like, guess what. I know how to spin hay into gold, and I'll do it for you, but you have to promise me your firstborn child. And she's like, sure, that's fine, Skins that guy who takes your firstborn child's and then okay, sorry, I just said he's the guy that tells radels. That was Yeah, that's so. There's so much more to it. There's more layers that I was missing. I didn't know. I thought he was like the Riddler there. And then he's like he's like but he's like, if

you can guess my name, I won't. Okay, so wait, but that doesn't happen yet, I don't think so she so he gives are like the the hey gold or whatever, and then I think a few other things happen, and then she has a baby, and then rumble Stiltskin comes to collect and he's like, give me your baby and she's like, no, I made that promise and I didn't mean it. Then he's like, well screw you. Uh, but if you can guess my name I won't take your baby.

And then somehow she overhears him saying his name, and then he comes to collect the baby again and she's like, no, rumpel Stiltskin, you cannot have my baby. And he's like, oh damn it, you knew my name. All right, I'll leave now, And that's the story. Hold on, Okay, you need to have me back for that. Please have me back for this fifth Shrek. Okay, I take it back. I really want to come back. Okay, Shrek. When did

Shrek five come at? Shrek five comes out? Wait? Why won't they tell me we don't need to schedule it now? But no, that was really you know. I was at the edge of my seat. Isn't that a riveting story? It comes out next year? I can hardly wait. What's going to happen next? Oh? I already know because if Shrek is having babies, right, maybe it's one of the babies that tries to I don't know. Anyway, that's my guess. Well,

back to this movie, back to the farewell. Oh yeah, we were talking about um awards and how they are not these like prestigious awards, and how they are not accommodating to stories like this, which is an American story made by an American director, told from the point of view of an American and even though a lot of this movie takes place in another country and is in

a language other than English. But because a lot of awards, like you said, cater to like white American, monolingual English language centric stories, and they tend to forget that a lot of Americans are immigrants or come from immigrant families, and or they speak languages besides English at home or in their communities. And these are still very much American stories featuring American characters. But these awards institutions treat these movies like they're not. It's just like operates on a

really rigid version of like what being American is. That

like has not made sense for a really really long time. Yeah, for sure, right, I just think, I mean, for me, you know these rules the fifty thing, It just depends on who's watching, because you know, people who make the I mean hill Billy elogy, I would contend as a you know, foreign film for for me, you know what I'm saying, like if we had to go there, because you know, I just don't know the world, and you know what I'm saying, but it doesn't make it not American.

Here I am defending it. You know, it doesn't not make it American. They're just as American as we are, and they deserve to be at the ceremonies. And so it's like something I thought was like when I was just doing research on the background of this movie, like I feel like, nothing like hits that point home clear than the fact that like Chinese audiences were not very

interested in this movie. It made like three dollars in China, and it seems like there's a whole Variety article on it that will link in the description, but it seems to boil down to the fact that this is like a very culturally normal thing to do in China, and so everyone was kind of like yes, so what, like why is there a whole movie about this like very normal thing where I feel like two Americans it's it for for a lot of Americans, they just didn't know

that this was a cultural practice and that like you know, watching an American character navigate it was like really compelling and really interesting. Um so yeah, I mean it's not news that award shows are like extremely out of touch and racist and not up to date. In any way. But there you go, what's the biggest, like your family member, a family member has told you and then they were like, oh, just kidding, Oh that's a good one, that's a good question.

I don't know. I feel like my family was like too honest with me, too young, and it had like a different kind of negative impact. Where like when I was seven or eight, my grandma told me and a Mother's Day breakfast that my mom had had miscare ages, like a ton of miscarriages before me, and that they were they were angels following me around, and I got really scared. Oh my god. But that was so that's an example of like a super truthful statement that was

kind of scary. It was too real, too soon for me anyways, Like because then I got scared that they were like these teenage ghosts following me around, and it it freaked me out. Oh my god, that is like I like that their teenage ghosts and not like fetuses. I imagined them at aging ghost in real time. I was like, oh, they'd be should be like fourteen fifteen. So I like got kicked out of school for drawing all these like ghosts. I was like, oh, these are

my dead brothers and sisters. They followed me around and anyways, it was it was so too honest. Was my family's problems. Yeah, my family didn't really. They didn't tell me outright lies. It was more just about like, oh, like, I'll wait till year older and then I'll tell you that I had two abortions. This is my mom when I was also abortions a lot of drama. My mom when I was in my mid twenties. She's like, and it was

actually prompted by the death of my grandma. She was like, oh, no, I'm going to die sometimes, so I better tell my children things that I want them to know before I die. So that my mom called me and she's like, I just want you to know. And this might, you know, tarnish what you think of me. But I did have two abortions before you and your siblings were born, and I was like, Mom, that makes you way cooler than I thought you were, so thanks for sharing. So yeah,

it was like more stuff like that. Um, but I don't think I was like outright lied to about anything major. Yeah, because she still told you. Oscar, did your family ever tell you any like bizarro like lies when you were when you were younger. Yeah, this was a big one. Um, the Farewell. I connect to it not just because of like cultural stuff or the grandma stuff, you know, but

a lot of it. Yeah, where it's like even like Aquafina's real life, she was raised by her grandma and so was I. And um, I feel like there's a lot of Asian Asian stories where it's there's a grandma. If there's like a like if it's following a woman, Um, I think like in Hustler to uh not not number two, I mean t o o um right Constance woose Grandma. Anyway, I don't want to spoil that movie because yeah, I know people aren't listening to get spoiled on Hustler right now.

But anyway, is it called was it called hustler hustlers? Hustlers hustlers? I forgot about that detail. Yeah, that her her, she's like part of the reason she's working at the club is to support her grandma. I forgot about that. Yeah, And um there's a grandma and fresh off the boat, there's always a grandma. Um, I don't know they live long um. Nor from Queen's Too She, which is loosely based on Aquafina's life. But yeah, she yeah, lives with

her grandma. Yeah, but in my case for the farewell, like I feel like I was, I wasn't like I was the grandma in the grandma's position. My mom and grandma lied about how long we were going to come to the States for. They lied to me about They said we were coming for a two month vacation, which is I feel like a lot of undocumented immigrants, it's a it's a thing the families say, we're just here and then you just never leave, right Yeah. Yeah, and

so that, yeah, that was the main life. But I didn't know at the you know, I didn't know for a long time. Well I knew when I was like, well it's been two months, y'all, and you know, our tourist visas were only for two months long. And then my grandma was like and then she enrolled me in school, and suddenly I was in school. And then like a year went by and you're like, I don't think this is a too long as hell. The rest of our

stuff got shipped from Japan. But she still tried to sit me down to tell me, like when I was like seventeen, when I was trying to get my driver's license. I was like, I want to drive like the other kids. And then she was like, oh, you can't because you don't have a social Security number because you're undocumented. And I was like, yeah, I think I had a feeling. Yeah I know, bitch, Yeah, I know. We overstated her visas. I know. That's it was just wild that she still

felt the need to tell me the truth. So it was like with withholding, but we never talked about it because it was like maybe too painful for me. Missed all my friends, I didn't really say I didn't say by to them. I didn't say by to my dad because I thought I was going back after some a vacation and then, um, yeah, anyway, I love them. My grandma still try to tell me that she lied to me. Your grandma is iconic, she truly. I mean, she's a social media star. She's she's a liar. That's why she's

um I mean. But that's why movies like this are so important. That's why, you know, we say it all the time, but why representation is important because they expose audiences to cultures and communities and philosophies that some people might not otherwise have much exposure to, so movies like this can be like an educational tool. Like the first time I watched this movie, similar to Billy, I was astonished that the characters would choose not to tell a

family member that she was dying. But then later when different characters explained to Billy about how they're carrying the burden for her, because in Eastern philosophy there's a greater emphasis on a person's role in a group and how they are part of a larger whole, while Western and American culture is all about the individual and you know,

like picking yourself up by your bootstraps and stuff. And then I was like, oh, like I totally get that now, And yeah, I just thought it was really cool that one of the major themes of this movie was the exploration of these cultural and ideological differences, and I thought

Lulu Wang handled that all very thoughtfully. I think the only thing that the only way they could have made Billy more American and this was if she then went on to tell it on This American Life where like podcast, because that, you know, it's just that's a very American thing to do, you know, to be like, well, my story needs to be heard, Well, my grandma's story needs to be heard NPR or you know whatever, or like I'm gonna start, I'm gonna do stand up comedy and

I'm going to tell this story on stage. That kind of is like the full circle where it's like us giving you all this information and educating you and all this stuff, and then it's like, but ultimately my story must be told. Yes, I think that would be actually

like that's my only note. Uh yeah, the scenes where I mean, there's a lot of scenes in this movie where that cultural differences between the US and China are hit on, and they kind of like when I was watching it back, I was like, oh, they kind of cover like a lot of ground tier where um, I mean, there's like the most obvious plat point is the fact that Billy is really off put and kind of like freaked out at first by the idea of withholding information

from her grandma about her own health. And they literally they're they're like in America, this is illegal, and like that's why she's struggling with it. Um, And then I like that scene with her with her uncle where he like he lays it out pretty clearly says we're not telling nine night because it's our duty to carry this emotional burden for her and watch how how that like affects Billy and how that like changes her to an extent but not but like not entire I don't know.

It felt realistic where it was like, well, she's not going to unlearn her entire American her entire this American life in one trip, but like she does, she does understand it better, and it's like, I don't know, taking

that journey with her was really interesting. But then there's like conversations at the dinner table about college and about like career decisions and like choosing a career of passion for less money versus like something that will guarantee you becoming rich, and like they're just having these debates over dinner a lot that I was like, Oh, this is I don't know. It's it's so seamless in the way that the movie runs that I didn't even like, I

don't know. I was watching it the second time, I was like, oh, they're like lu lu wang is covering a lot of ground here, and like stuff that isn't even necessarily plot relevant, but it's still kind of fits into the conversation yeah, because I mean this major theme the whole movie kind of hinges on is this idea of like the duality of Billy's like culture and identity and uh, you know, she has Chinese heritage, but she's ultimately raised as an America in with American ideology and

just like grappling with that. And that's such a relatable experience for especially like first generation Americans, and there's just not a whole lot of movies that explore that. So

it's just really cool to see. Yeah, I guess the like it's fully americanized version would be I guess they all just tell the grandma at Thanksgiving or something, yea dinner and they all like tell her, or like one person tells her, right yeah, and then um, I don't know, I don't know that version, you know what I'm saying. I actually don't know what that version would be because that's not how my family operates either. My family is like more like secrets. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to picture.

I don't know, it's just like a close elder family member of mind. They would just they would be the ones to find out that they were dying, like from the doctor directly. Oh oh, that's true. My grandfather has been sick for a really long time, but like there was never like he just is always no, they're just like, yeah, man,

you're ninety two. Oh you know what. Yes, that makes me think, you know, maybe like the more American thing is which makes me really sad actually is like people like suffer quietly, like they're the ones that are dealing with it. And maybe so the secret would be that like the person with the ailment or illness doesn't want

to tell their family. Maybe they don't want to Yeah, actually that is I feel like I've seen a lot of American movies like that where someone knows that they're sick, they are withholding that information from their family because they

don't want to burden their family with it. And it's yeah, so I wonder how much that has to do with like americanized healthcare too, where like there's you know, all these stories about people who are sick but like can't afford for all these horrible but I can't afford to treat their own illness, and so they just don't talk about it because they're like, well what else am I

going to do? Or like that the burden being not even emotional but like financial Like there, I've I've had family members that I didn't want their family to like go broke, you know, treating it illness, and so they just didn't mention the illness. Wow, we're fucked. Yeah, and then instead they go and do like a bucket list. I feel like that's another movie. I think it's called that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, They're like, well, I'm gonna go um like jet skiing.

You know, it's something I haven't done. Something I don't know. Am I making up movies? That movie? Market Freeman and Jack Nicholson not gonna watch it? I don't know. I bet it starts with a cancer diagnosis something like yeah, you know, let's go. Do you want to come back? When we talk about that movie, does we even work? Are there even even any isn't it just men in the movie? Isn't it just the two of them? I

think it's just the boys on the road trip. But those are those are some fun movies because we can just talk about toxic masculinity the whole time, just based on Okay, First of all, the poster for this movie is so bizarre. It's uh, Morgan Freeman, which he's got his arm around Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson's holding a glass of champagne. There's there's three pictures. One of them is them at the Egyptian Pyramids. There's a picture. There's a picture.

There's a picture of them about to jump out of a plane together. And there's a picture of them on a motorcycle together. But you can tell on the poster that all of the pictures are photoshopped. So I have no idea what's going on in this movie at all, but like, they're not at the Pyramids here, and they're not on a motorcycle together. It has on rotten tomatoes, so we obviously it's an urgent. There's an urgent need to cover this movie. I want to know what happens

at the Pyramids, so yeah, I'll probably check it out. Well, I just want to know if they actually if they go and just take a picture outside of it, like because that's yeah, or did they think you know? Anyway? Hard to say, only one way to find out. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for a more discussion. And we're back. Uh, let's talk about a little bit more about nine Night and and her relationship with I feel like usually what we have older

characters in movies at all. There's so many tropes attached to Grandma characters that are avoided by this movie, just like because the movie is never punching down at her and we just get to know more about her, Like she has like complicated history and backstory, and I liked that, Like, you know, you're introduced to her as like, oh, she's like this really you know, charismatic matriarch and we love her and she's great, but then you also see scenes

where she's kind of being an asshole to people. You see scenes where you know, you find out that she has also like engaged with this lie before. Like you just get this whole backstory for her, and you see all these sides of her that I feel like you don't usually get for for older characters in family movies

at all. Definitely, Yeah, we talked recently on an episode that might not have come out yet, but just the grandma character in a lot of movies is basically there as a joke or that they're there to like generate comedy because everyone's like, oh, Grandma doing a grandma thing again, or oh Grandma, Grandma forgot something, or Grandma couldn't hear you or something like that, just like that string of fetty white rolls from like the late two thousand's. Is

there a Grandma test? Is there? We shouldn't know, but we should be a Grandma test. If there's a Grandma in the movie, does she just is she just there for comic relief or does she have like a role in this story? Oh, we were talking about it in our Knives Out episode. Yes, yes, yes, So that's coming

out right around now on the Matreon. Yeah, because that's a movie that does adhere to that trope of like Grandma isn't aware of her surroundings and Grandma doesn't know anything, so Grandma dies, That should be part of the test. She died so bleak. And this one, this one would almost you would think it would fail the test, but then at the end it doesn't fail the test because she lives. Well, that's mostly to protect potential viewers hearts emotions.

I really do feel like I wish I could have gone in to this movie knowing that she was okay, because you just have I mean maybe I'm sure that's a part of it, but we're like being filled with that dread the whole movie and just like, no, I love her, don't. And then at the end of like and She's fine, You're like, oh, okay, great, Yeah, I'm like, well, show me thirty more minutes of actual footage of her, because they showed some. They showed some, but I was like,

show me more, show me more. Where's the sequel? Yeah, she's still alive. Yeah, but what I can tell she's still alive or she she was alive at the time this movie came out, So I hope, I hope she used to be. Well. I feel like if she died, Lulu Waiting would tell us. I don't know. Maybe I'm like maybe that, maybe I'm being a para social relationship, like maybe I'm just like she'd tell me. But I'm like, I don't know her. She could lie to us. I

don't know. That's I mean, you know so far, you know, I mean, she did participate in that one line, so that's true. Wow, I don't know she could you know? Part two? Who knows? But she's gonna tease us. She's gonna like shoot it a block like in l a where we can all see it. She's gonna shoot it right in Los Angeles wherever you know most of the farewell fans are or something and be like, I guess

what we're filming. You'll never know, But Aquafina is in it and the same actress who played her grandma, she would do that to it. Who's who is amazing too? I I looked up her history. She was Jen and she she was, like I guess, a famous theater actress in China and hadn't ever done a film role and this is like her first film role. But she was

like a theater icons like, Oh that's so cool. Yeah, nine, I is so interesting because I feel like she I don't I don't know how to like there should be like a word to describe this, and maybe it exists and I don't know what it is, but like she has these qualities that are like characteristic of her generation, but it isn't like over the top, and she does like compromise with Billy about it, where she like says, oh,

what are you going to get married? You need someone to take care of you, and Billy pushes back and she's like I can take care of myself and fine, and then she brings up like nine I has this like boyfriend's question mark, who's just like, who is kind of trash? And nine I was like whatever, Mr Lee, he's just here um and Billy's like, well, what about your trash boyfriend? And nine I was like I see your point. I see your point. I just the moments

like that with them is so are so fun. And then nine I comes around because later at the wedding, they're are a group of a few older men who asked Billy like, oh, are you married, and she's like not yet, and then nine I jumps in and she's like no career first, like she I feel like, you know, she's she's becoming a feminist icon. I didn't even realize those things. I think I overlooked that. That's cool because all I heard was like doctor, are you married yet?

And I think I just like, for some reason turned it off in my head. But yeah, that's cool that it was more, it was more layered. Actually, yeah, they learned from each other. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm just like maybe I have my own test where I'm like, you know, it's my people, so I get like maybe protective, where I'm like no, I every Grama asked about you know, marriage or doctors, you know, like, well, I want to do that um, but you know that's not lu lose fault.

I mean that's also a thing that a lot of white grandma's do where they're always asking you about if you're married yet, but then they also talk about so many other things. You know, it's just that's not what's shown.

That's true. Yeah. I like how that those two characters, like they both kind of compromise where I feel like it would have been like a really easy thing to be like Billie is like no, Grandma, you need to like think like an American and do like and it just and then it becomes kind of like propaganda eat like Western propaganda stuff. But they like listen to each other and they kind of like meet in the middle in a way that feels like, oh this this feels

like a healthy family relationship. It was cool. Yeah, And I like that that and that it might be in that same wedding scene where those other guys are at the table with him, but you find out a little more about nine night where there's this like a guy that's been like holding up how do you holding a flame for her for like fifty years where he's like, yeah, you know, I really wanted to marry you and like all this like you know that like where he's just

talking about how he's like I love you. It's like she's like, sorry, I'm with Mr Lee now and I hate him. Sorry I have everyone's none of us like him. We don't know why he's here. He's a mystery. So he really I wonder if that's pulled from from real life because he was he was he was a wild card. I feel like so much of it is Lulu Wing's real life were just inspired by details from her and her family's life. Because, for example, the person who plays nine e sister in the movie is nine eyes reels

like Lulu Wings her great aunt. Yeah that's so. That wasn't like a trained actor or anything. That was just she put her great on in the movie in the same role. High level secrets are being kept. That's the way to keep it secret, way to make it harder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so many somebody, well Cardela did the issue in the grandma's house too, at some point you actual house while

she was sleeping. Maybe they have like the relationship between Billy and her mom to like, I don't know, there's so many like different, very specific family relationships that like you don't always get a lot of time with them, but they feel like the dynamics are really well written and clear, where like Billy is definitely served with nine Night. Then she is with her mom, and her mom is like a little I don't even know how to like.

She's just like less emotionally expressive and is very like practical, like I do what I have to do and I'm not gonna like she she kind of like pokes at Billy for like crying, and she's like, well, I'm not just going to cry about stuff like you do. I was like, okay, Mom, but you also like I don't know, I mean, there's the I feel like that the mom. When this movie came out, like Aquafina's performance and Jao Sujin's performance were so I mean, like rightfully so um spotlighted.

But I thought the actress who played the mom was so good and like deserved more of a shout out. Her name is Diana Lynne, and I really like like she is like dealing with having an alcoholic husband in a way that doesn't really take over the story but is like clearly a reality that she just else like I just have to deal with this. There's no point

in expressing emotion about it. This is just what it is, um and and has like these differences with her daughter that keep coming up of differences on how they're grieving, differences on how they view America, where like the mom there's like that story about the church key thing where they just view the US very differently. And I don't know, I just I liked I liked all of her story beats. It felt like she was a very fleshed out character

that kind of I don't know, I just really liked her. Yeah, And then Akwafine is like, Mom, that church is not representative of all of America, right, But yeah, I mean like the relationships and the characters in this movie, Yeah, they're like, we just really well developed and they feel very authentic. And it's obviously because they're based on real people.

Because I feel like in a lot of movies where there's like, for example, a really tropy grandma character or like a really trophy mother daughter relationship, they are written by people who are basing those characters off of tropes they saw in other movies, where like rather than like basing them off of character like off of real people, It's like this whole like tropes beget more tropes kind of thing where some writers are like, well, I'm writing a movie with a grandma character in it, and this

is how I've seen other grandma's depicted in movies, so I'll just write that it is. I mean, it's like, I I totally agree with you, and you really can tell when there's like an authentic experience behind it and when it's uh, particularly male writers writing out mother daughter relationships, I feel like sometimes come off as super just dis an end of like is this how you think your

family talks when you're not around? Sir? Right? Yeah? Yeah, And I mean lu Luang is just like such a good distinct writer and it just feels very very natural for sure. Yeah. Like you said, like when the writers basing things off of their real lived experiences and the real people in their lives, like, it's no wonder that you get these rich, authentic characters and situations like you

see in The Farewell. It's true. Um. And then another scene I wanted to talk about was where they're looking for Billy's cousin's future his wife's hearing and Billy has a breakdown because she's again she's been grappling with this dilemma of like, I really think that we should tell nine I that she's ill, and everyone else keeps being like, no, no, no, under no circumstances will we do that, and it's weighing

on her emotionally. And then she tells this kind of childhood story of how she before her family immigrated to the US, she would spend summers with her grandma and grandpa and he was sick and no one, no one told him that he was sick, and no one told little Billy that he was sick. So that like after they went to the US and he died, and then when they would go back to visit, he wasn't there anymore. And how like confusing and tragic that was because she

never had the opportunity to say goodbye. And when she was, you know, like her early life in the US, she

was scared and confused. And she saw that same kind of frightened look on her mother's face, and you know, they're just like kind of explaining all of those emotions and her mom is like, yeah, it was difficult for us too, and just that kind of whole experience, and like the performance that Aquafina is giving in that scene is just like, oh, that part it really got me because it was like, well, but different kind of story.

But yeah, it was like like I still think about Japan even though it's not my home anymore, but it's such a harsh realization where it's like and I think I was always scared. I always had like separation anxiety. My grandma would be like, well, you've got to be independent soon now, you know. And but it's because, like grandmother tell me, we were going to stay here. So I didn't say bye to my friends when I went back to Japan. When I finally could, they were no

longer my friends. They had moved on. You know. When I finally got my green quarter, I could leave the country legally. Yeah, that part I was like, oh my god. Um. I mean not to make it about me, but you know what an American thing to do. Well, I am on a pod casts, so like, you know, I do want to I do want to talk about Aqua fee as great performance, but also my my life. So what about my performance just on this podcast? I mean, you're doing great. Yeah, we should have done we should have

done Shrek. No, No, I'm just kidding. Have we talked to about her dad at all. I don't know how. I don't think so, just that he seems to maybe be struggling with alcoholism. Oh that was the moment with nine eight where I was like, nine eight, what are you doing? Where she like super contradicts herself in a way that I was like really feeling for Billy's mom in that moment where like when they first arrived, nine

is like, hey, is he drew sinking again? Like we really need to be careful and that he's not drinking too much, and then like a half hour later he's drinking too much and Billy's mom was like, hey stop and nine I was like, let him drink and let him Oh my god, why do you Literally my grandma used to do that with my dad and not good. Not good. Yeah, I forget. What's she going through something? Is that why she changed her mind or she just

did that? I couldn't tell. I thought that that was like an interesting character moment for her, where like I feel like she has kind of like a shiny halo for a lot of the movie, and in that moment, I'm like, you're being a like you're being meat to

Billy's mom, Like why why? I think it was just like the wedding coming up, and it was like cause for celebration, and she keeps being like, well, this is the first time, like we've all been together as a family in like twenty five years or something, so like let's enjoy ourselves. And I was like, but what about yesterday, Nina, you said this literally yesterday anyways? Um, but yeah, the the actor who plays Billy's dad is see Ma, who I've seen in a bunch of stuff, Like he's an

iconic character actor. He did an amazing job everyone just the I mean, I remembered him. I was like, oh, the guy from Arrival. He's recovered that pretty recently right away. So, I mean, it's just the performances in this movie all around are incredible, including from people who are not actors, uh, such as like Lulu Wang's great aunt. I would not have guessed that, Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed that she wasn't a professionally trained actor, right. I wonder who else

the bride did she have lines? I forget. I feel like she didn't get to say much, right, she barely said anything. I think I'm going I'm looking on IMDb and the cast of the movie of the Ones that have photos of themselves next to their name, those are like more established actors, and the people who do not have photos next to their name, I'm guessing they are not really established or trained actors. And I would say like half of the cast are not necessarily trained famous

of actors at all. So um, but it's that's just a testament to like Lulu Wang's directing skills and how she's able to get such good performances out of people who are not necessarily trained actors. So this is awesome. Yeah, what else? Any other thoughts about the movie for me? Really? Yeah? I liked the Um, let me see if I had anything else in the I liked this scene where they mourned the grandfather. That was just like learning moment for me.

I didn't No, Um, hey, everybody post episode, Jamie and Caitlin, why wasn't fully aware of this? Uh when we were recording the episode, but I wanted to make sure it was acknowledged. Um. Aquafina has been criticized repeatedly over the

years for appropriating black aesthetics, starting with her early rap career. Uh. It is, to my knowledge, not something she's ever addressed publicly, but I uh and it, and it doesn't really apply in the movie The Farewell, But that has been kind of some of the nature of the criticism, where she appropriates black aesthetics in certain roles and then in other roles doesn't, And so it becomes pretty clear what's being done. She is not the only person to have done this.

There are I mean, there's a huge history in music and movies and TV of doing this. But I just wanted to uh share for context this, uh this quote and what will link this in the description of the episode as well. This is an opinion piece from the Duke Chronicle from last year. Uh. The piece called on Aquafina appropriation and Asian American identity by a writer named Hannah Mao. I hope I'm saying that correctly, and uh here is the kind of summary of of of what

the pieces about she says. Quote. Many have rightly criticized Aquafina for rising to start them through an appropriation of black aesthetics. From her viral rap song My Vade to her breakout role as peklin Go in Crazy Rich Asians, Aquafina has made a career out of performing a caricatured version of blackness, co opting African American vernacular English, a ve speaking in a quote unquote black scent and playing

characters that could be interpreted as minstrel esque. Aquafina has a worn blackness like a costume, putting it on when it commercially rewards her in Crazy Rich Asians and Oceans Eight, and taking it off when it does not, like in The Farewell and her newest project Nora from Queens. Uh. It's a really good piece. We'll link it that discusses other entertainers who have have done similar things, but I just wanted to acknowledge it in in this episode as well.

Thank you, Jeney. Yeah, I think that's that's kind of all I had. I just like that, like you see a like a ton of different like relationships between women

from different generations. I feel like it's already like a super rare thing to see like written thoughtfully in movies, especially between like Billy, her mom and nine and I like three women with different perspectives on a lot of stuff and watching them like navigate life but still really care about each other even when like especially with Billy and her mom, like could not be more different, but like are both coming from like very understandable genuine places.

I just I don't know. I love I love a movie with multiple generations of women, um, disagreeing on things. So I think that's just a genre that I like. Hashtag relatable Yeah, same yeah, hashtag a living it. Um. One of my favorites was Great Gardens. Oh my god, when you said when you said, yeah, different generations of women disagreeing with each other, you know, having to like figure it out together. Yeah, and they're kind of they're

kind of codependent. We gotta I'm like, I know it's you know, it's a documentary, but we should maybe just cover I was living Steel Magnolias. It's like all about women get a good fight, like in in understandable, like not baseless conflict, just like because because then because then I feel like you just get like real acting performances, and it's it's very exciting. Um. Anyways, I don't have

any more notes. I'm excited to see what Lulu Wang does next to I know that she's got science fiction e project in the works right now that I'm like, I don't know much about, but it sounds pretty interesting.

And I just hope that you know that because this was like the movie that like really launched her career, that she'll you know, get to make a bunch of cool ship and like, uh, get the kind of blank check treatment that we see with a lot of white guy directors, because like she's super talented, she's got like and I'm excited to see her work in a different genre too. I was like, Oh, what is a Lulu wait sci fi movie gonna look like? Yeah, totally. Oh, I hope it shoots a block away from my house.

Whatever it is, whatever it is, I want to get a peek. I just want to peek. What if you get cast to be the star or I'll just like being in the background. I don't care. I'll just like point out, point out whatever, like the scary thing is. You know, I'm just assuming there's a scary thing. I mean probably that's that's where the side comes in. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Um well, the movie does definitely pass the Bechdel test a lot. Billy. I think there are probably more conversations

between Billy and nine I than any other combination. I didn't like track this scientifically, but um yeah billion billion, her mom billion and we didn't talk about her her aunt, but Billy and her aunt talk quite a bit as well. Yeah, I like, men are definitely present in this story, but like not not overwhelmingly. So they're they're there and they're and they're emoting to their yeah yeah men. Yeah, it's just like a really beautiful family dynamic that we're seeing,

where like different family members disagree for different reasons. Some of them are cultural reasons, some of them are just

because they have different personalities. Like, it's just very emblematic of how families work, and yeah, this is just like a very relatable story about complicated family dynamics, which is something that everyone can relate to, because, like I think there's a tendency for American Hollywood like movie studios to assume, like, oh, well, this has an all Asian cast and they're not speaking English most of the time, so there's no way this

would appeal to American audiences because there's just so much bias when it comes to what studios and like your big onlywood gatekeeper people think audiences will and won't relate to. But this movie and many movies like it are just very human stories that do have a wide appeal because because we're all people. Unless yeah, unless you're Mr Lee, unless do literally, and then for some reason, you're you're just come of the earth. Yeah, didn't even I just checked.

Mr Lee didn't even make the poster. It's the only character that didn't make the poster. Yeah, so we'll figure that out. Justice for Mr Lee, figure it out. Where's his spin off? Maybe he'll pop up in Shrek five. We don't know, he's gonna be the lead of the sci fi movie that. Yeah, it's a whole sci fi story where he's like a cyborg. Yeah. Uh. And then as far as our nipple scale, which is our scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the movie

through an intersectional feminist lens, hmm. I didn't have like a bad thing to say about this movie, so it's obviously going to get a high nipple rating. I'm picking. Look, I'm I'm going to withhold this information for the rest of the episode. No, I don't know. I'm just like, I feel like we just recorded an episode earlier today where we gave the movie five nipples, and I'm like, wait a minute, am I about to give two movies in a row five nipples? Yeah? Makes you feel unsure,

It makes me feel unsure. But I mean just based everything we've talked about in terms of the way the women are characterized, the way just the family dynamics are characterized, the relationships, the exploration of Billy's characters experience, and the dilemma that she's feeling based on this like duality of her cultures. I don't know. I think it's like again, I don't have any criticism. I'm getting so impatient. Jamie's like, you,

you can give two fives one day. I know, but I'm just like, it's so rare to give five nipples that I'm like, this, is this a mistake. We've been covering too many good movies, is our problem. We keep choosing these movies that are really good, which is why we need to cover Shrek four guarantee. It's what if it is five? Though? What if we were like rumpled

Stilts can move me to tears? Yeah yeah? Or or wait for um Mr Lee strikes back ulus Yeah response to the Farewell the sci fi movie, Um yeah, yeah. I'm gonna get five nipples and I will distribute them to Lu lu Wang Shao shu Jin, who plays nine, I to Diana Lynn, who plays Blais, mom to the great aunt whose name is lu hang just everyone. Also, I go who plays the the bride, who's just for the bread. She's just trying to figure out what's happening

the whole. She doesn't speak Mandarin, so she does not know what anyone is saying. I mean, honestly, I would be like, so pissed that the boy my boyfriend or my fiance. Right, why isn't he translating for her? Yeah? I would be like, why do you Like, I can't believe you're making me do this. I don't you know, I don't have to like I'm a whole person. Yeah, where's her spinoff movie? That's another moment where nine I is an asshole where she's like I hate this girl.

She doesn't know what's going on, and and Billy is like, yeah, she has no idea what anyone is saying, and Nine I was like anyway, like I know, And she's like, I don't even want to get married to him. Maybe maybe not even anymore? You know what I'm saying. Right, the whole the wedding is is like a sham just to get everyone together. So I would break up with

him after all this whole thing. I would I would be like, you made me you made me like forced, get forced into a marriage and like go through all that family drama. You don't even say much. I don't. You don't even have a personality. Goodbye. You know that's what I would fair fair. So, yeah, those are my five nipples I'm gonna I'm gonna give I'm almost going to give the movie five nipples because I really like it. I really like a story about multiple generations of women.

I feel like I've said everything that I want to say about it. I want to give a five nipples, and I'm going to give all of my nipples to Lulu Wang's real grandma, who who was a block away the whole time. I feel like that adds a whole another level to the experience. She was steps away, and I was so happy to hear that she was still with us at the end. It was in a movie full of great parts, it is the finding out that the real nine eight is alive is the best part.

I like gasped in the theater. I was like, wow, it's a feel good ending. Um yeah, I love it. Yeah, and I'm excited to see uh more flu waiting stuff in the future. Yeah, that's go. What about you? I'm gonna have to give it um four nipples for ico Um and her situation. You know, the movie really crushed the other parts. I just really I still think about her and and her situation. So yeah, there was room for a subplot with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's

that's the only reason. And I would give the four stars for nipples. For nipples to Um. I mean, I guess Lulu Wayne, good job girl. Am I allowed to do that? Yeah? Whatever you want. Yeah. And her friend no, actually, her friend like talked right, and that's why the grandma found out. Oh the sister, your grandma's sister, who who is your movie? Yeah, she got sucked up into the into a Hollywood glitz of it all, like maybe real nine. I was like, so, what have you been up to?

And she's like, oh, I've been in this movie abouts right, Yeah, we'll never know. Well, OT's go. It's always a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for being here, Thank you for having me back, um, and we'll see you soon for Shrek four or whatever, Struck five, Shrek three, Shrek two, any anything, Hey, count count me in. I want to know how many nipples are gonna give it? Um? Where can people follow you online and is there anything

you'd like to plug. I'm just at Otsco Comedy and you can just see what I'm up to there on the socials. Amazing. Uh, We're in all the regular places. We're on Instagram, Twitter, at Bechtel Cast, you can follow us on our Patreon, ak Matrian at patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast, where we're talking about knives out this week, and you can get merchanty Public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast if that is your desire in life. All true, these are these are not lies. These are not lies

that we're telling you. We're not withholding any information at this time. We are telling you the truth. So thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next week. Bye bye, thank you, bye,