On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Beckdel Cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronte is Jamie Loftez and oh oh no please, and we talk about the representation of women in film on our podcast that you're listening to right now. What do we do?
We use the Bechtel test first of all, met made by Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, that requires a piece of media have two female identified characters with names talking to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. Wow, should we test it out? Let's do it? Okay, Hey Jamie, Hey Caitlin. Did you know that I regularly misused the word whenever? No? Because I do, and our fans tell me about it all the time. What way are you
using UM? I think I use it when I should just be saying the word when. But but I say whenever. Honestly, I think you should get dragged for a free product that anyone can listen to um and absolutely don't even need to weigh in. But you mean, I think it's very useful. Do you feel bad about yourself? No? Good? Yeah, there you go, perfect? Thank you. Then the internet is not doing its job if you don't feel like absolutely garbage. That's so everyone, should you know, try harder to set
it up? I mean, really, roaster, just kidding, please, don't it passes cool? So to get down to damn business, we're talking about representation of women in scary families. Scary families specifically the Adams family. So today we're covering the film from ninety one. We have guests multiple plural. They've both been on the podcast before separately, but they're here
together because they're the co host of Nerdificent. It's Danny Fernandez and Iffy way Way Hi four told Crossover it finally finally welcome during spooktober yah, Um, what are you guys history with this franchise? Danny start, Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed. I tweet about more Titia and Gomez more than any normal person should. I also have a bunch of artwork of them in my apartment, so I have like above my bed I had forever. I moved it, but it was a picture of Gomez like swooping, swooping.
What does a dance move? Where they're there? Thank you, Iffy. He's swooping, he's dipping more Titia and has like his face like in her neck, and I'm like, I don't want any guy in this bed that isn't doing that. So that's like representation, uh huh. And then like right when you walk into my place, I have a picture of him like kissing her hand. So yeah, I'm obsessed with them, and that is their goals. They are goals, right, yeah, yeah,
terrific if he what about you? Yeah, yeah, you know, watched Adams Family like everyone else, you know, I thought it was a good franchise, fun show. The cartoon was fun. I think now my relationship with you know, the Adams Family is every woman I have a crush on looks like more tissue or Wednesday, any variation of the two. Just getting into that beautiful Jamie. What about your time of year? I'm like a long time fan. We had we had a book of the comics at my house.
I don't know who it belonged to, but like the comics in the illustration style of Charles Adams. I really really really loved when I was younger. I weirdly, I think I've only seen this movie one time before or but I remember they used to show like repeats of the TV show on TV Land, and I was deep into that deeply unfunny television show. Loved it, loved loved,
loved lie lovel laugh track. I live for it. But this is my first time seeing the movie in I mean, at least a decade, and it was so lovely to revisit. What's your history with the Adam family. Well, this might be a wild thing for me to admit, but I had never seen this movie nor its sequel, Adam's Family Values. Um. But like, I'm familiar with all of the characters, Like I knew about more Tisha, I knew about Wednesday, I
knew about Cousin. It like all the whole the hand they've infiltrated our cultural zeit, guys, it is like a cultural osmosis kind of thing. Yeah, but I was watching and I was like, and I thought I had seen it, but I was like, wait a minute, I've never seen this movie, but it was a delight Uh, and we're focusing on the first one from nine one, but you know, if if anyone has any thoughts on the sequel, uh
by all means share them. It's so funny because I always forget Go Maz is rawl Julia because I always remember all Julia as Imbison from the street Fighter movie, the fact that that was his last film that he's done in his life and it's dedicated to him at the end, and so you know, I listened to the credits and that's all I think of when I was like, no, he that was a way better performance as him as Go Maz, But for some reason, I just see him.
That was Tuesday for me. I was gonna say the original Gomez was also John Aston, who Sean Aston's dad, Right, Yeah, I love us. I love an acting dynasty. Scary, it makes me mad, but I like it allow it. I wanted to point out two things just about values out of family values, because we're just focusing on the first one. I do love that both of the movies had a female villain. I love that. And then Pubert, their son,
who's like a tiny Gomez, is actually a girl. They're too twin girls with just like they put little baby mustaches on. Yeah, so technically they passed the back toel test just with the true with their cooing to each other. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's uh, you know what, babies are so androgynous. It turns out, um, should I just dive into the weekend of geting up a picture of Pubert and Pubert? Wow? Wow, I kind to see the
second one. I also read that the second one is supposed to be like the better movie, but it just well, that's not the one. It was funny because going into it, I was thinking I was watching the second, but I was like, oh no, the first one is different because I was like, oh wait, this is a fake fester fake fester alert. Yeah, the second one was slapped super hard because yeah, the camps scene and Wednesday appropriating Native
American culture was super hot back in the day. But then also like making a statement we shouldn't like colonizers shouldn't have done that to indigenous people, just like a woke white woman with dreads. You know. I was like, you know, I don't know what to do with you. Also like who are their parents? That one of them is Latino and the other is white. You know, I'm like, what is this family, like you know, Gomez, and then there's Fester and I'm like, clearly adopted someone at what
is happening here? Okay Latin x icon. Yes, I'm going to dive into the recap and then we'll go from there. Okay. So we meet this cookie spooky family, the Adams family. The patriarch, if you will, is Gomez Adams. His wife. His wife is more Titia. Um, that's Angelica Houston. Of course. Her mother is grand played by Judith Malina, not to be confused with Alfred. Although he's a chameleon, could have played the role. He could have played literally any character
in this film. He would have actually been a great fake Fester yeah. Um. And then there are two children, Wednesday Adams Christina Riccie of course and Pugsley. There's a detached hand called thing that lives with them. He's their pet, I'm not sure or who knows, kind of like a butler. But then they also have a butler urch sometimes you need two butlers, uh. And they all live together in this huge, creepy house and they love anything that's dark
and morbid. So years ago Gomez lost his brother Fester, and every year the family has done a seans to try to bring him back. Meanwhile, the Adams family lawyer Tully Alfred played by and Hidea Uh and his wife, his wife Margaret, they're financially desperate and they're trying to figure out a way to get some of the Adams
family fortune because they are inexplicably very wealthy. Well, I like how the story is like, we don't need to explain why because none of them have jobs, and they go out of the way to remind you that none of them have jobs. You're just like, they're just an
independently wealthy, scary family. Yes, So one of Tully's clients, Mrs Craven, pays them a visit to collect a debt that Tully owes her and Mrs Craven's son, Gordon Christopher Lloyd, looks a lot like a photo of the long lost Fester Adams, so they decide to have Gordon pretend to be Fester as a way to try to get the Adam's money. Quick question, is Mrs Craven, that's murder? She wrote, right, No, isn't murder, she wrote, Angela Landsberg. Then no, that's not her?
Was that your runner? Way? We're not about way? Of asking if it was Angela Murder, she wrote, I just forget her name, but now I know it's Angela Wynne. There it is Mrs Potts, And we'll always say Festers missing. He's like literally missing right there. He's not He's in the Bermuda triangle it. They're saying, right, yeah, yeah, we're
talking Fester. I do have to take one quick second for us to put some respect on the game where you held the two metal things that would vibrate super hard and then smoke would come out of his mouth dusters. It scared me for so long as a child because I thought it was really electrocuting you. It was like,
I don't think I can handle all those volts. Um. So the family does their annual sciance and Gordon as Fester, shows up pretending to have been summoned by the Sands, along with Mrs Craven, who was pretending to be a German psychologist who is like helping esther. By the way, that's a hat on the hat. She didn't have to do that. She just wanted to, like, I want to do some sneaking around too. She's like, I took an
improv class. It's like I gotta get some use out of this improv increases the likelihood of them getting caught by a lot, right. I might even go as far to say the reason they were suspicious was because she was there. She's like, why has practiced this German accent? I have to use itsically trained. So then fake Fester settles into the Adams house, but tells the family that he can only stay for a week because he has
to get back to the Bermuda Triangle Wednesday. Adams is suspicious of him immediately, but everyone else, especially Gomez, is like delighted to see him, and he asks Fester for forgiveness for betraying him in their past, because there's this whole thing where Gomez wooed these twins Flora and Fauna because he was just super jealous of Fester's charm. But Fester can't seem to remember anything from their childhood, like the secret password or the combination to the vault, or
how to remove this like finger trap thing. So now Gomez suspects this man to be an impostor and gets very upset, and he's crashing his model trains together. I love the model trained. That's like a carryover from the TV series too. He's just a yeah, trains guy and also the guy that's in it that looks out and that's the director. Um. So Fake Fester knows that they are onto him, but he still hasn't found the family fortune.
And then his mom, Mrs Craven, who's pretending to be the doctor, shows up and convinces Gomez that he's experiencing displacement, which is why he's angry and thinks Festers a fraud and everyone believes her. So Gomez once again is like, is convinced that Fester, this guy is his real brother. How are they so rich for the fact that they can get duped so easily? Right, duped and undooped just as all, Yeah he's got Gomez is just an impressionable guy.
He wants to believe the best. It's true, Yeah, it's true. Meanwhile, Fake Fester is bonding with the children Wednesday and Pugsley, and he helps them with their performance at the school play and everyone is excited about Fester again and he's starting to feel like part of the Adams family, but his mom is like, I'm your family. You've got to get out of there, find the money and run. So the family throws Fester this big ball and the whole
Adams clan is invited. Iconic cousin it is there. Um As Fester is getting ready and talking to his mom about getting into the vault, Wednesday x in on them and she's like, I knew it, You're a fake. And then he chases after her but he can't find her. No one can find her. And then he goes to
the ball and pretends everything is normal. There's a whole dance sequence, terrific, great, That whole party is just so good, and I feel like takes place in this world, Like there were a lot of good scary dances in the nineties and movies like The Dance and Casper was another big scary dance that in like an old creaky mansion.
Loved it, loved it. And then after a while, the family realizes that Wednesday has disappeared, so they go out to find her, and when they come back to the house, their lawyer, Tully, has seized the house and issued a restraining order, saying that it now belongs to their oldest living relative, Fester, and that he's still bitter about Gomez's betrayal regarding Flora and Fauna so now the family has banished from their home and they're despondent. They try to
integrate into society that doesn't work out very well for them. Meanwhile, Fester, now that he has the house to himself, he and his mom and Tully are all trying to break into the vault to get the money, but they can't figure out how, and Fester seems to like miss the atoms
Is and We're like, what's going on there? And then more Titia sneaks out and goes back to the house, but Mrs Craven and Tully tie her up to get the information about how to access the vault, and then Gomez shows up to rescue her, and Fester doesn't want to hurt the atoms Is because maybe he is one of them actually, and then his mom is like, I should have left you where I found you, and then we're all like what, and then Fester's like, you're a
terrible mother, and then he unleashes a hurricane on them that lives in a book, which also electrocutes Fester with a bolt of lightning, which restores his memory, and it turns out that Mrs Craven had kidnapped Fester years ago. But he got amnesia and he didn't remember that he was in fact member of the Atom. I totally forgot this part. I don't know. I was watching it on on my plane on the way here, and it's totally
skipped over that. Yeah, so he is by blood or maybe adopted, but he was raised as an atom's right. And that ending confirms this total fact, which is faster can grow hair. He just shaves it all. He just saves it all. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, it's always oh man. I honestly like I forgot the entire what happens in this movie, and I was floored by the twist. I was like, wait, that's it's what we thought at the beginning. I loved it. I know
it was beautiful. I loved it. And that means that Gomez is purity of heart is actually the right thing to do, because he was was right all along. He's actually very intuitive. He knows his brother. That's true. Let's take a quick break and we'll come right back, and we're back. That was kind of a a spooky and they're back back back. So where do we want to start with this film? We've got an embarrassment of riches here. There's so there's so many fun female characters. Start with
more Tisha, Let's do it. She's great, I mean an icon she is. This is weird that I like she I love I love that she's both very much in charge, but it's also very soft spoken. I feel like you
don't get characters. Yea. I will say that because I remember watching this and be like, oh, I don't remember her voice being that high pitch, but I think you watch it forget and then you see pictures and I was like, oh, she must have a deep voice because she commands so much power, right, But yeah, no, Angelica Houston, she actually didn't base it off of the original more Tisha. She based it off of Gray Gardens. Oh yeah, that's how she came up with how she was acting in
the wild. And they kept some of the things, like they kept the her clipping the roses, like that's from the show. But I think she wanted a different take that was more true to her, like what she thought she could bring to it. I mean, it's such a like the jokes that she delivers, which are a lot of them. With her performance, it ends up being this like dead pan delivery and it's so funny and it's
so great. Yeah, I love it. As far as her character so well, first of all, she's a horny icon verry sex positive, I mean her income as like their relationship is great. Yeh. That's why I was watching this, was like, I'm the right man for the job. You got the Horny Lord of Comedy. If you wa wait here checking in clocking in? Is that a nickname you gave your Yeah, just feel free to tag was it horn Lord of Comedy? Alright, that's going to be the movie I'd come out with with three other horny comics,
The Horny Lords of Comedy. That's your like national tour, Like, oh man, did you check out The Horny Lords of Comedy? I mean, if you said, was good? But b l Huglia kind of weak. Not I had tweeted about Gomez, I was like, I want someone like him, and by that I mean a Latino millionaire that can talk to the dead, because I was like, that's just so on brand for me. The thing that I love about I know,
we're talking about mor Tisia. The thing I like about Gomez though, is that he's okay with male affection, Like I love that. I love like he kisses Fester, which like guard but he's very like he cries openly, he worships his wife. Like I just love all of that. Yeah, but I love that they're super sex positive. Yeah, he's like very emotionally open and vulnerable and by contrast, like maybe more Titia to a lesser extent, just because she's like, hey, kids,
you should keep trying to kill each other more. I
like that. I feel like that like that subverts like a lot of mom tropes that shut and all the time of just like the mom has to be I mean, not that Morticia isn't nurturing, She's very supportive of her kids, but like the you know, emotionally more forward when where it seems like Gomez is kind of the has that role in the family of expressing it, I mean, and even like when it seems like Fester isn't his brother after all, or the Fester that they're given isn't, you know,
he's like devastated and like openly devastated and doesn't hide it.
And I also like that the movie doesn't try to make it seem silly that like a man is expressing his emotions too, because I feel like sometimes when male characters and movies do it's framed by the movie is like how embarrassing for that, how pathetic something for Grama is it's just like a part of the story and its like it makes sense, and it's so I love that the main women in the family are very a level headed, so like Morticia and Wednesday, you know, like
Morticia always keeps her cool even when Gomez is freaking out, and the same with Wednesday, Like she's just so same thing. She's dead pan. She like definitely wears the pants between her and Pugsley and is always like he that's her little guinea pig, right, And by extension, it doesn't seem to bother the men either. They're not like hey stop that elect care. I mean, yeah, I know we're all over the place. Well, we'll get to every character. We'll
give them all their due time. But like, just to pick you back off what you were saying, Danny about the two siblings, Wednesday and Pugsley, Like, first of all, Wednesday is the first and kind of only one who's like very immediately suspicious of a very suspicious scenario. Um, And so I don't know if that's like kind of playing to like the women's intuition trope, or if it's just that she's really smart and observant, that's what I choose to believe it's happening. Um. So, yeah, she's super
smart and curious and observant. Um. I would say that she's the more developed, more active, and better remembered character than Pugsley for sure. I like that she's given a like specific academic interest. She loves the Bermuda Triangle and she studies it, and she like studies her like she has an interest in her family. When she brings up Calpurnia right right on, you're like, oh, she's you know, she's digging it. Like yeah. She also talks way more
than Pugsley. She has far more lines of dialogue, which I think is unusual for Also, I don't know how old Christina Ricci was, but like, damn, I was watching like she was so good. She was on par with the adults in the film. She was eleven when this movie came out. Insane. Yeah, she's and then and then she you know, got like pigeonholed in the in the scary nineties movies for a while because she was in Casper. And she's also perfect in Casper. Do we want to
talk about let's say, or go back to more Tisa. Gosh, I'm just excited. I know, it's just so exciting. Um, so yeah, let's let's return back to Morticia for a moment. My big thing with her as it relates to the narrative is so towards the end, they've been banished from their house, and Morticia is the one who's like, this isn't right. I'm going to go do something about this. So she's the one who like sneaks out, takes the initiative and goes back to their home in an effort
to correct the injustice that's been brought upon them. Um. But she gets immediately captured and damseled and like tied to a slab, and so she doesn't get to accomplish anything, which is very frustrating. Which does and that, Yeah, that's like a shitty tropy thing. The only good thing about that is that she they that that they get kinky about this lab, true, which is fun because Gomas has to come in and rescue her and then they get
horny in regards to this lab. That's true. Yeah, they could have capitalized on that opportunity to have her go try to do something and then accomplish something and maybe like whether or not she's completely successful whatever, but the fact that she doesn't even get to do anything because
she's immediately captured and then has to be rescued. That was she also got a job and Gomez didn't right, Yes, Gomes was like sitting around watching TV, super depressed and then she went out and I d a teacher teacher right, which is a great scene too. Yeah, I don't mean,
I don't know. I wasn't sure what to make of her getting a job in Gomez not I feel like it sort of made sense for the story, Like it was like it seemed like he was suffering depression and she was like, well, I need to go make money because our financial situation is intentionally obscured to serve the plot. And I don't know, Yeah, I I that didn't super
super bother me. And I also think it's it's like, especially in the early nineties, like the mom being the breadwinner is actually kind of like a little bit supper. And then we also get to see like the interview pro where the interview was like, oh, so you've been a homemaker and you're trying to re enter the workforce. That's actually pretty normal, right now, um, where did you go to college? And then she's like, tutors, what was your major? Spells? And hexa and she's like, we'll say
liberal Arts. And I was like, the comedy in this movie so funny, But yeah, I actually liked that. Like we see her be the one to go out and get a job and try to support the family. She's very often the one to find the solution for a problem, and it's just like, I don't know, her and gum As have such like a functional good relationship where when there's a problem, they split up the responsibilities and one
of themselves the problem. It's pretty easy, like when Wednesday goes missing in that weird sequence where she ends up sleeping on a grave and then they're like, well, anyways, next scene, go Ma solves that one. What was that? What does anyone know? Why? Why that happened? She runs away to escape Fester because she got caught finding out
that Fester is an impostor. Again she had suspected it, but then this is her confirming it because she walks in on the right the shaving of the head, and then so she runs away to avoid like being hunted down by them. Yeah, that's how that happened. But yeah, I mean, similar to Wednesday being suspicious about Fester, you
see Mortisia being eventually suspicious as well. Like she you can just sense that she's not quite as on board as Gomez is, because Gomez has been blinded by the excitement of Fester returning and he like cannot look at anything rationally. But more Titia is like, I'm happy that he's home. But also this is a bit suss. She takes him out to the graveyard and like warns him of like just so you know, if you funk with us, you'll be in one of these graves. And then like
you're just like, oh okay. So she's a little visions, you know. She like gives him a stern She's like Christopher Lloyd don't. Also, this is the most I love this family. They're the most confusing because it's clear that they want to die, but yet they you know what
I mean, it's like, don't work with us. But then it was like cyanide, like we'd run out, you know, and it's just like you know, they clearly I kept running into that with the Adams family values, because they were upset they kept trying to kill the kid, even though they wanted their kids to try and kill each other. I'm like, this is so and they like had a had a background process for the nanny, and I'm just like,
why don't you want They're just they're very confusing. Maybe it's a family rules where it's like it's like we can kill each other, but strangers killed. I buy that. I like that they there's so many rules of the Adams family universe that just are blatantly unexplained to the print where it didn't even occur to me to question them because it's just like Cannon like went, we don't know why no one else is scary they and it's all so I'm like, how old are they? We don't know.
It seems like they might be immortal, but but then also could be hard to say. Yeah, the wife, I forgot her name, Toty's wife, right, I love Margaret that he doesn't respect her, so she left his ass. You know. Um, Also, short guys do win? Look I date short guys. She went for a guy shorter than her. Yeah, cousin it because he treated her well. See, that's that's what we want that's true because it's very respectful. You don't know what happens when he flips that hair up. He can shredded.
Sh He's all dick. It's all dick. He covered in hair. I choose to believe that even though he pronouns are used for cousin it and I also think are used he pronouns are used for a thing. Yeah. I think that they are both genderless non binary icons. But you know that's just my head canon. I had one more thing on Mortisia before we moved on from her was I liked that scene where she goes to Wednesday school.
This is when we find out where that Wednesday has made like a school project about her great aunt Calpurnia, who was burned as a witch in seventeen oh six. They said she danced naked in the town square and enslaved the minister. But I like that they're in this phase where Mortisia is being set up by the teacher to like be worried about her daughter and like call her weird and say like, oh, something is wrong, and Mortisia just, I don't know it's weird because it is.
She does know what's happening, but she just totally steamrolls it very calmly, and she's just like, oh, yeah, isn't that the coolest fucking thing you've ever seen in your life? My daughter is so great. And then the teacher is just like like the teachers just pokemon stunned and they move on. Like there's like she has a lot of moments like that where you know, she knows what's going on, but she's like not even going to get into an argument about it, and she's so like cool and collected
that no one ever challenges her. It's the it's aspirational. More Titia is so great the movie, though both this and its sequel are the stories are focused, I would say, largely on the relationship between Fester and Gomez. So even though we have these great female characters, the narrative is focused on like the patriarch of the family and then his brother. You know that I found especially maybe sure
that's the first movie. Sequel could have been about something more focused on more Tissue, which actually they hire a nanny because more Tissa is like, I would like to pursue some interests outside of the home, and we're like, okay, cool, that's cool. But then she never does anything. So that was um the big frustration for me for Adam's family values.
But um, yeah, both movies are about like they're focusing on these male relationships, so the female characters end up being more supporting roles rather than you know, the heroes of the story. The you know, and it's an ensemble cast, but um, the focus is still on men and male relationships, which is kind of funny because I think, like the
iconic characters from this franchise are to female characters. Wednesday. Yeah, so like, in spite of the way that these movies are are written, it's still like cream rises to the top. Although I love going As so much too, Pugs, I can kind of it's like the least cause played character. I do think that it's weird that it's the same like story. I almost feel like the Studio because it's about Fester essentially listening to a woman who takes him
away from his family. That's like both stories, Like I just found because I watched them back to back the other night and I was like, this is is like the same thing. He's listening to a woman that wants to take him away from his family. Like it's just fascinating to me like being on the other side of it now that the studio wouldn't be like, hey, so maybe let's change this more. But they're like worked the
first time. Let's see what happen, And it is cool that, like you have parody between men and women as far as like there are female villains in both movies. And then like also in the first movie, like Tully ends up being irredeemable, but then also like Fester, who is in on the scheme in the first place because he doesn't know that he's actually in Adams, he ends up
being redeemable. So it's like there's nice, a nice balance there, Like we all, I always like to see a female villain, assuming they're handled responsibly, which is when I think mostly it is I think she's a good female, like because you're always worrying like, oh, is this going to be a female villain that is like relegated to only using her sexuality as a weapon or like what but but this is a I mean, abigailis a goofy villain, major goofibes.
And then there's also that bizarre like that sexual tension between her and Fester that you're like where she well, there are all those scenes where she's getting real close and she's like, you know, to me, she's shaving, she's shaving him, she's shaving him down to you know, his skin,
and being like, tell mommy you love her. Yeah. There's also I mean, this is maybe a stretch, but I feel like there's the light suggestion that the villain, who is a woman in the first movie, is so baby crazy that she will kidnap an adult man and raise him as her son. Yeah. I was like, um, okay, but it is very funny to me that Fester would have been an adult when she found him, and then
she's like, but you're I'm your mommy, mommy. Going back a little bit to Gomez and how he is this really sensitive father, I think by that same token, one of the things that endears us to Fester is that he takes an interest in the children in like this very nurturing role. Um, because nurturing relationships like that with
children are usually relegated to female characters. So the fact that it's we get to see this random uncle who's been gone for twenty five years, who would have never met those children, was like, yeah, but you're nice and I like you, and let's I'm gonna teach you about scabs, which, by the way, Jamie, I know at the topic of interest, does it you know, it's it's getting to be Halloween, and we have to reevaluate once again. Does beetlejuice come
wet scaps or dry scaps? Thoughts? And we don't. We're so sorry to bring talk about It's definitely scabs. So you're so sure that juice comes scabs? Yes, in the real and in how are you? How do you talking about this mathematically based on the assumption, which we've deduced to be mostly true, that beetle juice comes scabs. Do you think that bee juice would come wet scabs? I think like like a laser jet printer printing a lot of full color photos, or dry scabs, which would be
like a deck of Tarot cards being shuffled. Do you remember the commercial in the nineties for creepy Crawlers. That's what I think. He comes like those jelly little crawley spiders that you could like bake in the boy's equivalent of an easy bake oven or whatever they have. So you're saying wet but also hot. No, they were like they were like they were like gummy. It was a gummy so you put it in the sas or out of the equation. Yeah, I'm sorry, he comes creepy crawlers.
See how there's boys that's unfortunately not canon, Danny, that there's boys that when clearly I owned one of the I do want to, you know, quote my my algebra teacher and say show your work, because I need to know how we got to the scabs. I've got. I mean, I've got. First of all, look at the man. He's covered in scabs, covered in scabs. We have no reason to believe that he wouldn't come scabs. More guys is not can Thanks for playing everyone, but try again next
year definitely comes scabs, all right? When when I when we have the writer people juice on Nertificent and we ask all our loyal listeners who send in their pictures every year with their team dry Scabs and Team Wet Scabs T shirts. It's a whole team pus rise up, but no shirts for you. Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to come us the scot there's a book about scabs in this movie, flipping through it's it's one of the ways that Fester bonds with his niece and nephew.
We have smelled your scabs before, so good. We got to take a break, but we'll come right back. And we're back. We're back, and we're gonna we cannot refuse. I'm going to cut this out. It is important Halloween discourse. One of the last things I wanted to bring up is So and Danny. You touched on this a bit
as well. But Um, Gomez, the character and the actor who plays him, Raoul Julia are Latin X. There's an article in teen Vogue by writer Ella Serone entitled The Adams Family's Gomez Adams was my first glimpse of Latin X representation, and I just have a few quotes that I'd like to read from that. Um there was Gomez Adams. He was the first time I ever saw my own dad reflected back to me on a big screen. The prevalence of solid Latin X fathers in pop culture is
meager now. For every Jane the Virgin storyline, there are also many more stereotypes floating around, feeding into the narrative of machismo and patriarchy that so many of us are trying now to course correct. When the first Adams Family movie first debuted appropriate representation was rarer. Still, No, Gomez was not a realistic father per se. The family pet was a disembodied hand, but he was a devoted one.
The fact, and here's another quote from the same article, the fact that Gomez was played by a Latino X actor was not lost on me either. Julia accentuated his Puerto Rican accent and speech patterns in order to heighten the character's theatricality. With all due respect to John Aston and Tim Curry, who have also played the character, all
other interpretations of Gomez were aberrations. In my mind, I understood Gomez to be Latin X like my dad because that is what I knew, and he still is now that Oscar Isaac is voicing him in the new animated movie, which is why we are covering this uh Adam's family right now because of the new animated movie that's coming out. So I thought that was worth mentioning um because of the little and not good representation generally of Latin X
characters in media. I love the fact that they did keep Oscar Isaac and I think I can't predict the future, but I think that he will stay um not Oscar. I wish that they had a live action of him. I kind of wish the cartoon, but I think Gomez will stay latin x like for the next decade at least. I mean, his name is Gomex. But in my mind, I'm like, so is Wednesday Latina? Um? Possibly, I don't know. I'm gonna We're gonna claim her. Chloe Grace Moretz is
out because she's who voices Wednesday. Rewrite it instead of Wednesday. She's miracles now nice. The whole time trying to do that joke, I was remembering the song I learned in Spanish class, Days of the Weeks Luon Martes miracles virness. Uh what Luna lu luncleless. Yeah, you know that's the song. Svine was Lunes Martes miracles vierness, the fourth one sin the days of the week. Wow, I can't believe I
forget Friday. No, you said Fridays, So what's Thursday? Oh yeah, Oh that's why I'd like, let it miracles vierness the days of the week. Beautiful. Someone's probably like cramming for their Spanish final and then they're listening to this, They're like, oh my gosh, I'll save me. You're welcome every find Senora Martinez. Can I listen to podcasts while I take this test? It takes we have so many seventh graders
taking Intro to Spanish as our listener. Yeah. Um. One of the last things I wanted to say was, um, I think it's very cool to see female characters like more Titia and Wednesday being interested in like dark, morbid things, because most movies are showing women and girls being interested in things that are like very traditionally feminine, which is great.
But the fact that we only see that and the fact that that's like a societal expectation, you know, it's whatever, But you know, I just like to see more Titia and Wednesday they love death. Yeah. Well, that was something I wanted to bring up as well, just because I was trying to research how the um, how the adaptations have differed, and it seems like this is the adaptation
that really like did the most right. And actually, as we see on this podcast all the time, where like adaptations are done lazily or poorly or and do a disservice to their female characters, this actually does a pretty cool job of reversing some of the more trophy female roles that are present in the TV series UM, where Morticia doesn't really have the same presence and parody in
the household as she does in this movie. And also um because Wednesday is like very morbid and I think, very similar to the Christina Ricci character in the original cartoons, but in the TV series she was kind of like femed up a little bit. Uh. They make her more girly, they make her more cute, see, and they kind of strip her of those really dark um like interest that
Christina Ricci's character has. So I thought that that was like a cool positive thing that the movie did was like, first of all, stay loyal to its source material in a way that really served it. And also just like let the female characters be like dark and funked up and cool and not have it be this you know,
point of contention for the story. This was also a time in the nineties when like riot girl culture was coming up, um and so I think like having women like rebelling being into more darker things and like grunge and um, I imagine that that influenced part of this that grandberries culture is on the right ninety one and this movie is also co written by a female writer who Caroline Thompson is co written with Larry Wilson. But Caroline Thompson has a pretty like crazy screenwriting record for
like this era of movies. Specifically, she was in the spooky movie genre. She co wrote Edwards Scissor Hands. She care wrote the Adams Family should cover at the Secret Garden Nightmare before Christmas, Uh Corpse Bride like and and the twist welcome to Marwin we don't know or We'll welcome to. Isn't it always so crazy that whenever there's a good representation of women in film, there's usually a woman who co wrote it. It's almost like, m I
wonder what. That's My favorite thing in Adam's Family values is when she's like, Debbie, you enslaved Fester, you took him away from us, and that I can forgive but pastels and she kicks her out, Like that's my favorite part. She's so okay. Another thing, she's an icon for her meme of her sipping tea. I've seen so many people use that on Twitter than more Tisias sipping the tea. Love it. That's the way to really establish a legacy is to have a good gift of you sipping tea
because that means he will never truly die ever. Does anyone have any other final thoughts about the film? I want to see, Um, I forgot is it Melissa? Somebody did a grown up Wednesday Adams, But I really hope that that was Melissa Hunter? Right, Yeah, I want that. I want to see her what her life is like now, like a spin off. Yeah, we should, let's write it about together iconic hell yeah. Uh does this movie pass the Bechtel test? Yeah? It does. There are a few
different combinations more. Tisha talks to Granny, her mother. She talks to Margaret about the finger trap and the charity auction. She talks to Wednesday. She talks to Wednesday's teachers we mentioned who has given a name Susan Perkins. They talk about Wednesday. Um. A lot of the conversations between female characters are about like Fester if he is an impostor, or they're talking about their dad or you know, something
like that. But there are a few exchanges that definitely passed. Yeah. Yeah, It's like it's one of those things where you're like, yeah, it's not as much as it should and I wish I genuinely wish that you had gotten a little more between more Tissia and Wednesday, specifically because you see moments where they're supporting each other and having each other's back, but you don't actually get to see that just the two of them together, um really much at all. So
I wish that there was more of that. But that's that. I mean, for for ninety one, this movie, uh like really holds up. I thought, yeah, they're there. I mean, the nineties were so ripe with so much problematic stuff, and especially comedies which were so about punching down to marginalize people. So the fact that this movie doesn't subscribe to that, the most regressive thing probably is more Tisha get Dam's old and having to be rescued by her husband.
Um yeah than that. Like, yeah, it pretty much, and it subverts a lot without making a big show of it. Like it just I don't know. It's it's a fun movie. It is, and queer icon cousin it will say it, and the Thing as well at it. Yeah. I love that. When the Thing was tapping stuff out in Morris Cota was like things working over time this week. I love it. Oh goodness, let's write the movie on our nipple scale
zero to five nipples. Based on its representation of women, I would say because there's the same number of major female characters as there are male characters, that's pretty rare. Um the fact that we do see a lot of subversions of tropes. We have these great, iconic female characters, and yet the story isn't really about them. It's more focused on the male characters and their relationships, you know. So I think I think it's only like maybe a
two and a half. It's like, right, I hate to give a nipple score that's right down the middle, but that's what I've decided to do here today. So I will give one nip to mor Tisha, one to Wednesday, and I will give my half nipple to cousin. It's cool. The end, I'm gonna do three and a half. I'm gonna I was very um psyched to I don't know.
I mean, I think I'm probably like also a little bit like you never expect a movie from to like really hold up and not feel and like be like I'm going to watch this and never feel bad about it, Like this is great. But I think it is like a pretty impressive feet that um yeah that, I mean the two best remembered characters, and I think the two best loved characters from this franchise are two women who are um while you know, like underwritten in some respects,
are for the most part. I mean they have command of For Mortitia, it's her family and and and of her marriage as well, and she's very much an equal in every way and also seems to kind of be in charge in in a lot of ways. Wednesday is super smart, also supported by her family, and how smart and like funked up and weird she is in all respects. I gave it too low. Why don't you do two and a half? What am I thinking? I don't know,
let me persuade you. Uh. And and I also think that, like the male characters in this movie are really well written. Like it. You know, if you're looking for an example of what a great father is, I think you can't do better than Gomez Adams. He's yeah, I'm sure he's a little gullible if you say you're his dead brother, but then it turns out you're his dead brother. Yeah, there's like no toxic masculinity in this movie. Really, they're kind of true and like Pugsy. I mean, he is
very fine with being electrocated by his sister. He isn't I feel like little boy, Like young young boy characters are kind of often made out to be emasculated by their sisters or female classmates or whatever it may be. And Pugsley and Wednesday are again I think, kind of similar to uh, Mortisia and Gomes where their equals and uh, the woman's kind of doing a little more in a lot of cases. And yeah, I don't know, I think I think it's great female villain. I gotta I got
three and a half. I almost want to say for I'm three and a half nips. I'm going to give one to Wednesday, one of Morticia, one of Gomez, and a half to the thing. Hell yeah, I'm gonna switch mind to three and a half. Also, I made a mistake earlier. I'll admit it. I've never this is my first mistake, but here it is. Um So, whoever's you
know keeping track of our Wikipedia page and the recording. Yeah, three and a half, And I'll give my extra nipple to um Granny because I think we could have seen a little bit more her, you know, older women representation. It's there, but it's not that strong, So let's I want Granny to be a bigger part of the narrative next time. It yea three and a half for me too. You know, I thought it was great, Like I said, yeah, it could have been like a stronger plot line for
the women featured in the film. You know, there's like that light naggie woman nous to the bad female characters are. But but you know, I don't. I think it's in the way where it's like, you know, fat and salt, you sparingly so you know, not too bad. But yeah, I rocked it. Love more Tissia, Love Wednesday. But yeah, I guess one nipple to Wednesday, two to more Tissia, and uh I have to cousin it too, you know,
since everyone's doing it, I'll give cousin. It's just one big nipple under Their part of the thrill is the mystery of it a true true true They had their baby? Oh yeah, what their baby? What? I'm actually gonna give this four. I probably bias, but I feel like these women affected so much of my life and my personality, so much of my brand is them. I love Wednesday just because she is the smartest person in the family. You know, they gave that to a little girl. Um,
she's like the surry of her family. Like, she's great at science. She's super into stem you know, she experiments, she knows chemicals really well. She knows how to push it just far enough that she doesn't actually kill her brother, but clearly could. She could probably kill everyone in her family if she wanted to. Um, she uses bigger words than me, So I respect that. UM. And yeah, I
like Mortsia. I like that they kept her. Like there's a way about her sexuality that doesn't feel like it's a joke or doesn't feel like she's you know, I love Jessica Rabbit, but like she doesn't feel like that, you know, like she feels like so heavily sexualized and objectified, whereas, yeah, she's heavily sexualized, but like in an and in a consensual way with the man that she's in love with.
And what I love about that is when a lot of guys are like my queen, you know or whatever on Twitter, like he actually treats her like a queen, like he in the second movie, like you were saying, he was like, I'm something is wrong. I want you to feel good too, you know after she had her baby. Yeah, I just I love like he was like, I would die for her and like the way he says that, You're like, oh, he would literally die for her on her for Yeah, she's coming every day. So I love that.
And yeah, so I'm giving it a four two of mine. Actually I'm going to give wait, how many I can't do math, I'm going to give to to Wednesday, one to more Titia, and one to is it Margaret for leaving her husband, being a woman who realized that she deserved better, leaving her husband for someone that would actually take care of her and being happy. And it's a queer relationship because cousin it is a queer anyway on board. Uh, well, thank you to the both of you so much for
being here. Um, what would you like to plug as individuals as a podcast? You name it anything? I think nerdifficent? You know, listen, we're talking about a bunch of nerdy stuff. If you like here and nerds talk about nerds stuff, Listen to that. It's super fun. Danny's a treat. I'm there too, uh and Horny Lord of Common just getting that line up together. Sure, but yeah, we really like to tackle. I think when Iffie and I started it,
we just wanted to. We were two people that I feel like, uh got left out of the conversation a lot as far as representation in NERD fandoms and stuff, and I feel like there's so much gate keeping that now we get to talk about some of our favorite topics with people that are making them, you know, talk with directors, We talked with show runners, we talked with voice actors, and it's just really cool that we're kind
of like taking the fandom back. Um, so if you're into that, and also it's a it's an educational it's a fun you know, comedy based educational things. So like if if you don't know a lot about Star Trek or you don't know a lot about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, you can listen to funny people talk about it. It's a guilt free zone. I've like stepped into fandoms and jack shit about and I was like, I don't feel
bad about myself. Yes, please let's listen to nerdificent. Thanks again for being any individual socials you want to plug or anything. I'm at MS Danny Fernandez, Yeah, Me'm if you wid Way on Twitter and Instagram, if he's on Twitch, if you like to watch people play video games, and yeah, right on, and you can follow us on all the social media's at backtel Cast. We are on Patreon aka Matreon.
It's five dollars a month. You get too bonus episodes every month, and it's uh patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast and go to t public dot com slash the Epectel Cast if you want to get those dry scaps wet scaps shirts. And time for Halloween, baby, and even it's like, I'm beetle juice. We actually have a lot of Halloween work, It's true. Uh and until next time? Uh, what did we did? We never did the theme song. There's some creepy and the cooky all together sky something
family clapped. I'm like wow, Okay, Caitlin's canceled me. Okay, bye,