On the Bechdel Cast, the questions ask if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn Beast, start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Hello, and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante.
My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. Wow, Caitlyn, what what the hell is that?
It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It has many variations. The one that we use is do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation about something other than a man? And we like it when it's a narratively relevant conversation.
Which will not be a problem with our episode today, which is why it's a jumping off point for a discussion. Yes, because our podcast has been on for over eight years now and Alison Bechdel, I think is very kindly, politely ignored our existence for the better part of a decade. I do at this point sort of like, I'm like, I wonder if we hit ten years, if she'll just like pop out of the floorboards, Like I feel like she should throw us a surprise party.
Is that?
What do you think?
Yeah, I mean we've talked for a long time about having her as a guest on the likes.
Her emails, so it's like she also wants nothing to do with us, but she hasn't sued us.
Have we emailed her? I think we have been too scared.
I think we did when the podcast started, which was un The hubris of that is just like absurd. We're just like, hey, we're two people ripping off your likeness. Will you do free labor for us? Like we've grown, we've learned. I just sort of, you know, someday, someday, I.
Have no memory of this. I thought we were always too frightened.
I have to go back into the archives. I feel like we were so flagrant at the beginning in our youth.
Could be in any case.
In any case, we are here with the do episode. We're very excited.
So the movie we're covering today is Salt of This c a two thousand and eight movie written and directed by Anne Marie Jacir, and we're so excited to talk about it. And we're so excited to talk to our guest today, who is a film programmer at Brooklyn Academy of Music, the curator of Cinema Arabia. She's a former director of film programming at the Arab Film and Media Institute. It's Yesmina tweel Hi, Hello and welcome.
I'm so happy and excited to be here.
We're delighted to have you.
We're so excited you're here.
Something I didn't list in your credits, but I think is important to mention is that you also studied at Boston University and have a degree in film. It's not a master's degree in screenwriting, which is something that I would never mention having.
But it's not and I put it specifically in my email to you to make sure you knew.
I'm glad you did.
But that does mean statistically all three of us have like someone has coughed in our mouths on the green line, and I feel like that's a beautiful bonding experience. Well, thank you so much for being here. And for bringing us this movie. If you're in the US and you have a library card, you should be able to watch this film on canopy right now. That's where I believe we watched it. But I wanted to start before we
get into Salt of this Sea. I mean when you sent us, you sent us a really comprehensive list of movies that would be good for us to talk about, but so many of them were difficult to stream. So because you've been such a huge supporter and curator of Arab cinema in a country where it is just like not as easy to access Arab cinema, I want to know a little bit about your experience in this space and what you're doing right now.
Yeah, So for some context for listeners, I am Arab, as one would hope. I was born in the US, but my mom is from Lebanon, my dad is from Syria, and I actually didn't grow up with Arab cinema really. I know my parents had a couple of VHS tapes, but it wasn't until maybe it was in high school that I watched a couple things they had West Beiru and Caramel, which to this day or two of my
absolute favorite films. But when I really started getting into it was when I started volunteering with the Arab Film and Media Institute. At the time, it was just the Arab Film Festival, and I started writing the blog for them, and I kind of got a hands on education in Arab cinema, particularly contemporary Arab cinema. It also led me down some paths of learning about the cinema industry in these different countries as well, and so I taught myself
a lot just through that. I'd always been very proud of my heritage and was studying film, so it just kind of went hand in hand that I would start working in that space beyond just volunteering and writing the blog, and was very honored to be brought on as the director of Film Programming in twenty twenty one, and then it just kind of my involvement in the Arab cinema space just kind of exploded out from there.
That's great, Yeah, but.
It seems like you're like truly a fixture in the New York film scene at this point. I like to think, so, yeah, and we're going to declare it here right now because we definitely have that power. Yeah, I mean, going off of that. What is your history with this film in particular and this director's work.
Yeah, so, Anri Yasser is one of the most famous filmmakers from the region, and I had noted about her work for a while. I can't remember when I saw this film for the well, I think it wasn't that long ago, actually, but I actually saw Ann Marie's film Lajib first many years ago in Beirut, and then Salt of This Sea only more recently in the last few years. But both films made me completely fall in love with her.
And she has such a way of capturing just the human experience, but the human experience that happens to be in Palestine and speaks to all the bigger sort of social and political ramifications of living under occupation in her stories. But yeah, so this film is fairly new to me, but I've been familiar with An Marie's work for many many years.
Nice, yeah, Jamie, how about you.
I hadn't seen this before. I had seen one of Henry Jasser's more recent shorts. It was very short. My friend Kavon put together a like streamed Palestinian Shorts presentation.
I want to.
Say, like around this time last year and there was a short she directed in I Have It up Here twenty twenty two called from Palestine with Love. That is it's four minutes long, but it was really really beautiful. You should check it out if you're able. But it's basically a series of cement blocks being removed to reveal this gorgeous beach and children playing on the beach. And yeah, so that was my experience with her work. I also now looking at her IMDb page, realized she's directed an
episode of Romi. So I have seen whatever episode she directed, I've seen it every episode of that show.
I think it's the one that takes place in Palestine, or maybe there's a couple that take place in Palestine.
Let me check. Oh yes, yes, yeah, it's from also twenty twenty two Egyptian Cigarettes. Yeah, I guess I was semi familiar with her more recent work, but had not seen Salt to This Sea before. And it's so I just I really was like blown away at the sort of ease of her writing too, and how there are so many complex things. I mean, if you're not familiar with the Israeli occupation and the plight of the Palestinian people, it is a lot of information to convey, but it's
conveyed through It's just so naturally conveyed. And you also kind of get this. This is like a maybe dumb thing to harp on, but I was really blown away at how how often we talk about on the show how forced love stories feel, and how natural this one felt, and how just like her writing is so effortless, where even when you don't agree with what a character is doing, you completely understand why they're doing it. And anyways, Yeah, it's great. I'm excited to watch more of her work.
Yeah, Kaitlyn, this was my first film of Amory Jasser's and I loved it. I think this is such a movie moving, beautiful film, and all my notes on like the discussion part of this episode is just gonna be me being like and then this scene which is really good and has this really amazing commentary.
It's just a really good movie. I mean, it's just yeah, it's wonderful.
Yeah. I did. When you were asking me for films, I was trying to think of some of the like lighter but like high quality worth talking about films, And I think this film is a great introduction for a lot of American audiences but yeah, I was real listening to old episodes before this, and I was like, oh, this is gonna be a hard one to rip on.
Well, just because we mostly do that on most episodes. It's just because a lot of movies are horrid, yeah, and they make it easy for us to dump on them. But when the movie is really good, will be nice.
It was also really interesting seeing like how well we'll talk about it, but like how collaboratively the story was built, where the star of the film is also a writer and is pulling from her own experience to build out her character. And I just I'm just excited to talk about it. I love collaboration with women.
This is great. You love to see it.
You just love to see it.
Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. Okay, here is the recap for Salt of This Sea. We open on images of buildings being bulldozed, people being removed from their homeland, images from the Nakba of nineteen forty eight. Then we cut to the present or the present of this film, which is, you know, two thousand and eight. We meet Soya Tahani played by Suher Hamad A Brooklyn born Palestinian American woman who has just a in the occupying, genocidal state that is Israel.
The Israeli officials are interrogating Soraya about why she's there, about her name, her religion, her ethnic background. They strip search her body, they rifle through her luggage, you know, just put her through this all around degrading experience, and finally she's released and allowed to go. Onward, we learn that her grandfather was born in the Palestinian city of Yafa before he was forcibly removed during the Nakpa and displaced to Lebanon, where both of Soria's parents were born.
Her father recently passed away, which seems to be what has inspired her to take this trip. She travels to the city of Ramala in the occupied West Bank, where she links up with her friend Karn, who I think is in like one or two scenes, and then she's I know, I kept being.
Like, Where's Where's Coronette, But then I kind of forgot after a while because I just got into the other characters.
For because she goes to this restaurant. Sarah goes to a restaurant with Karin with other people who are like rude and entitled to the wait staff, and I was just like, if this, if this is who Karen's hanging out with, I don't really I don't really care much for her. And speaking of the there's a waiter at this restaurant and we're like, hmm, I wonder if he's gonna come up again later. He's too handsome not to show back up.
Young Salah Bakri.
Ugh, right, this is like one of his breakout roles, right.
Yes, yes, that was something that I was so delighted the first time I saw it. I was like, look at this little baby Salah Bakri. So like, sorry to interrupt you, Caitlin, but no, please her listeners. Slav Backriy is like a prolific Palestinian actor. You like, actually may have seen him in some American works, nothing like super notable on the American Well, actually, I take that back. The film that got the most famous in the West
was The Band's Visit. He was in that, Oh okay, But he's been in some smaller indie films from Europe and the US and then in like every other Arab film. He's a fantastic actor. He's an absolute sweetheart and he is so hot. At every age too. And his father is really hot and a great actor and a great director as well. But they have beautiful genes in the Bakery family. Oh and his brother too, Adam's an actor too.
So he's from like a Palestinian film family. Yes, yeah, cool, I was, Yeah, Caitlin, I had the same thought as you when he came in frame. I was like, if that man doesn't come back, we've made a big mistake. Because whatever movie language is so impressive in so many ways. But sometimes when you see someone's that hot, you're like, Okay, so I'm going to see this person again. Someone hot and they have a little twinkle in their eye, see you soon.
Yeah. Yeah, he's so good at the twinkle, the little look.
Uh truly Okay, so we perceive him, as does soria Then Soriah goes to a branch of the British Palestine Bank where her grandfather had an account with three hundred and fifteen Palestinian pounds in nineteen forty eight money we will learn this is the equivalent of around fifteen thousand US dollars.
And sixteen cents. I believe in.
Sixteen cent Yes, it is like fifteen thousand, five hundred something something in sixteen cents, this exact amount will become you'll understand why it's so important and a little bit. But she tries to, you know, withdraw this money from this account, but it turns out she can't access the account because it's no longer considered to be valid since it's from before nineteen forty eight. And she's like, okay,
that's bullshit. This bank still exists, so it's responsible for this money that is rightfully mine, and the bank is just kind of like, shrug, I don't know, come back later and talk to our regional manager. So Soriah goes
and rents an apartment in Ramala. She returns to the bank and speaks to the white British regional manager, who basically says the same thing, that the account is invalid because the Israeli Control Board had claimed that her father was not a refugee, even though he was, but they deemed the whole situation such that the account was invalid and he couldn't access the money. And the bank manager's very condescending and shitty about this whole thing. So Soriah
leaves and runs into that waiter from the restaurant. This is a man named Ahmad played by Sala Bakri. She just like gets in his car. She's like, can I go with you wherever you're going?
Well, because she's kind of being like cat called and I think is like a little bit uncomfortable. And then Yeah, gets in a hot man's car nearby.
Yeah, and he's like, no big deal, I'm just gonna go pick up my nephew. Come along, And then she goes to his home and meets his family. They drive around a little bit. He kind of like takes her around so that she can explore her country. She tells
him about her grandfather's life in Yaffa pri Nakpa. He tells her that he received a scholarship to study at a university in Canada and he's just waiting on his visa and he's like, oh, I can't wait to never see another soldier again, referring to the IDF who on their way back stops and antagonizes them. So we see these soldiers making him strip down in the middle of the street. More degrading experiences for them. Then Sayah applies
for a Palestinian passport. She's currently there on a two week visa and is trying to be able to stay longer, but she is denied a passport because of you know, restrictive red tape that is real and forces.
I have a quick question just to make sure I was like understanding what was happening at the beginning correctly. When she was going to Palestine. At the very beginning, they determined that she could only be there for two weeks upon her arrival or did she know that already? That was something I wasn't totally clear on.
I don't think the movie makes it especially clear. Maybe if there's like contexts that you already have.
She has a visa, right because they asked to see the so it must have. I would imagine it said two weeks.
That she yeah, and that she was going to try to get it expanded. Yeah, okay, I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something because I watched it twice and I was like, is it a surprise that it's two weeks? Anyways?
International travel is just confusing.
It's just an absurdly short amount of time as well.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, visas are are crazy, and sometimes you forget when you're having an American passport.
I take it for granted, so hard totally.
Yeah, I can't remember. Sorry, this is an aside. I literally just watched this today and I can't remember. Does she meet with a lawyer to talk about the visa?
I'm not exactly sure who she's speaking to. She's in some sort of official office with a woman. No, it's a man, Okay, with a man.
Sorry, I'm just I'm thinking about somebody's cameo and I'm like, is this the movie or never mind?
Yeah, I think maybe she goes to like in office of the Palestinian Authority or something, because that's where.
She gets advised by somebody. But yeah, I also wasn't clear who exactly like she was seeking out.
I'm like scrubbing through the film right now.
But anyway, So soria and Emma talk about living in Palestine versus leaving. They talk about how to deal with the Israeli occupying forces. They kind of butt heads about it. We can talk about like the more specifics of their conversation later if we want, but they're like not super in agreement on like how to deal with the occupation. Then Soriah tells Amud and his friend Marwin, who is an aspiring filmmaker, I.
Love my favorite character, My favorite character. I love him.
I love it.
He's like, I'm down, I'm down for anything. Let's go. We're gonna rob a bank. Let's go.
Oh you want to do a bank heist? I'm in.
Yes, he is my favorite character.
I liked him until he decides to stay. Does he decide to stay with that Israeli woman?
Yes, that is where he does lose.
Yeah.
Early scenes with him, though, I just appreciated. I just love a character who is very passionate about anything and also is constantly kind of cock blocking the main couple of the business, which is his role for the first like two thirds of the movie. And then yes, when the Israeli women becomes involved, you're like, oh, you really had me in the first half. But yeah, he's a treat.
He is third wheeling them a bit.
Yeah. I mean many such cases. I've done that so many times, where you're just like, these people want to fuck Well, I'm here, too bad, I'm here, So what are we gonna do?
You're my only friend?
Yes, well I also robbed the bank, so you have to talk to me.
Yeah.
Yeah. They had to find some way to get rid of him. Story. I guess that was the best way to do it.
Yeah, right, anyway, So we meet him, and so Riah tells Emmud and Marwin that she wants to basically rob the bank, the one that's supposed to have her grandfather's money, though it's not really a robbery because she would just be reclaiming the money that belongs to her and her family. Marwin is in, He's like sure.
He doesn't have a single question. He's like, this is going to be great tape. Let's go.
Yeah.
He's like, I'll get some good b roll out of this. So he's in, but Emmud is out. He's like, I got my future to think about. I'm going to university in Canada. I can't be robbing banks. But then Emmod and Soriyah lose their restaurant jobs because they like protest to their boss who is not paying them. And Emmod is particularly upset because he reveals that his visa to go to Canada was denied, and Sarah's like, well, you know,
it's okay, we can apply for another visa. But it turns out this is the fourth time he's been refused and probably indefinitely anytime he tries that would be the case. So he agrees now to participate in this heist as long as they do it Soria's way with guns, but
no bullets because they don't want to hurt anybody. So they make preparations and then Soria Ahmad and Marwin go through with this you know, quote unquote bank robbery aka soriah taking back what's rightfully hers that like fifteen thousand, five hundred seventy two dollars and sixteen cents.
Plus interest, which is such a great Oh, I just love that one.
Was so much great tag to the scene, yesh the equivalent of like what three hundred and fifteen Palestinian pounds would be in two thousand and eight American money, So that's what she takes. They escape, and they cross into the occupying state of Israel disguised as Jewish people with yamakas and stars of David and like pro America propaganda T.
Shirts, the T shirt, the T shirt, the whole.
Sort of hiding their identity thing with like Silas wearing a Yamaica with Israeli an American flags on it, and yeah, I forget what his T shirt says, but like clearly they went to some like weird tourists.
It's very like peer peer T shirt, but I have it written down somewhere, but yeah, it's like indicating like we've got you Israel love Oh America, don't worry, Israel's behind you. And there's a picture of like a fighter plane on it. It's just so fucking scary.
Yeah, And they have the star of David in the car and.
Right as like an air freshener. Something I really appreciated about this movie is that in terms of like indicting American culture specifically, but just Western culture in general, it equally which we're about to get to, but like equally is not afraid to indict Western liberalism as well. In I think my favorite most infuriating moment of the movie, which we'll get to in a second, but the T shirt was very funny.
Yeah, yeah for sure.
And it works too because IDF soldiers are dumb as rocks.
Yeah, they're like, looks good to me, come on through.
That's the sentence I agree with.
And so these characters go to I believe, Jerusalem, and they're able to move about more freely because they are not in occupied land and they are being perceived as Jewish, so no one's really giving them trouble.
But still not completely safely too, which is I think another thing that's donned super well is like even when they are quote unquote in the clear, they're never quite in the clear.
They're still alluming threat over them for sure. Yeah. They head to the coast, they swim and frolic in the sea. Then they go to Yafa, to the home where Soria's grandfather lived before he was forcibly removed during the Nakba. A young Israeli woman she lives in this house now.
She invites them in and lets them stay for a while, and she's friendly quote unquote, and she has mugs that say things like end the occupation, and she's talking to them and saying things like, yeah, I hate all this violence. We all just want peace, right.
Oh my god? Uh liberal zionis exactly.
So as time goes on, and like soriah asks her what she did with her grandfather's furniture, and she wants this woman to admit that her family stole this house from Soria's family, but this woman refuses, and she calls the cops on them, so Soria and Ammad leave.
Like this scene is so infuriating, but it's so good. It's so good and just stripping back this character that you're like, I guess if you if you have no like knowledge of what the dynamics between these characters could be, you could be lured into this false sense of security. But the second it and because I feel like that's like a very liberal Zionis and just liberal thing to do in general, is like, oh yes I have quote
unquote the right opinion. But the second it threatens me personally, fuck you, I'm out, this is mine and I'm calling the cops on you. Like It's just done so quickly and so effectively. And yeah, yeah, why did my favorite characters stay back with her?
I don't know. Yeah, they're like flirting a little bit and they seem to be connecting, but it's just like Marwin, come on, like, what are you doing? She's she's no good.
My head canon as he went undercover and he was gonna bust the whole family, He's gonna bust the case wide open.
And get back the house for Soriat. That would be nice.
I have no proof. I just want to believe the best in him. But yeah, he kind of disappears after this.
Yeah, so Emmad wants to go to, oh, I forget how to pronounce this city's name.
I think it's Joweima. There's actually I don't know if you remember the bit with the storekeeper. Yeah, she's trying to change her pronounce they're trying to find it, so she's trying to change her pronunciation because I think he's an Israeli shopkeeper. So she's like, maybe pronounce it differently, but she makes it like a yo mama joke.
Yes, which is like, oh, right, this movie came out in two thousand and eight.
Right, jo mama, Yeah, I think she says at one point, Yeah, yeah, Dowema or Dewaima. Yeah.
But like the point is that the name of the city has been changed by Israel, and that's why he doesn't know what they're talking about.
Yes, this city is where Ahmad's family is originally from, soh that's why he wants to go there, and he and Soria travel there once they figure out where it is and what it's called. Now they arrive, the buildings have been abandoned, if not destroyed. They find an abandoned house to stay in. They smooch a little bit, then they head to a nearby town to buy a mattress
and some other like homey touches. But a cop or soldier or some occupier starts to hassle Ahmad when he's outside, so Sarah comes up to him and like saves him in Spanish, which makes the cop assume that they're tourists, so he lets them go, but Amad is like, don't do that again, Like we could both end up in jail because her visa is now expired and he has no documentation that allows him to be there at all. So they go back to the abandoned house where they've
kind of made camp. They stay there they discuss possible futures of theirs, but the next morning, an Israeli teacher who's like on a field trip with his students finds them. He spews a bunch of you know, Zionist propaganda and says that they can't camp there because it's a national park, so they have to leave again. And then there's a moment when Ahmad is alone and two cops approach him. Sarah tries to save him again, saying, oh, I know him.
He works at the kibbutz where I stay, but the cops continue to harass Ahmad and the situation escalates, and then he and Sarah are both arrested but like also separated, and Soria is taken to the airport to be deported back to the US, and the movie ends much the same way that it started, with Soria being interrogated at the airport by occupiers. They ask where she's from. She says, I'm from here. I'm from Palestine and I've been here
all my life. That passport you're holding in your hands, you think it might be an American passport, but it's actually a Palestinian passport, And this is my home and you stole it. Is basically this sentiment, and that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss.
And we're back. We're back where to begin. As upsetting as it is, I think, just like even just like in a filmmaking sense, the rug pull at the end of this movie is so devastating and so effective, because again, it's just like, it's so hard to build a love story that is genuinely of people, people who are so different that you're really really rooting for, and seeing this political violence and occupations separate them in a way that
logistically you're like, of course that happened, but it's so devastating. It's just like I just the ending really got me. And I wish I saw this movie when it came out when I was in high school, because I feel like this is like an ideal movie to show to younger people, to demonstrate the consequences and yeah, where where do we start?
Well, I'll say kind of to that point. Yeah, one of the reasons I picked this movie a I think it's incredible. I really love it, but I do I think I mentioned it earlier. I think it's a really good endpoint for American audiences without being one of these Arab films made for American audiences. I think it's made
for everyone. And I say specifically American in part because the character of Soraya is like from New York City, are from Brooklyn, I've ever heard of it, But yeah, it tells a story in this way that is perfect for young audiences, for people, I mean, I hope kind of at this point this is not really new to people, but for people who are learning or unlearning something, I think this is a really great way to start through film. And I actually screened this in Brooklyn last year, and
I did receive that as feedback. I had a friend who brought someone he was seeing at the time who was kind of a American liberal Zionist type person, the kind of person who's like, oh, yeah, the fighting should end, everyone should live in peace, and didn't understand there's more happening. It's bigger and worse and more complicated than that. And apparently he left with like a lot of new insight and empathy for the Palestinian people.
So yeah, I just wanted to shout out the director of bit More, Anne Marie Jasser, because this movie is the first feature film directed by a Palestinian woman.
I'm sorry that that happened in two thousand and eight, but amazing that it happened. Yes, I was curious. This also was And honestly I don't pay close enough attention to the Oscars, but I know that every country gets to submit one film to be considered for Best International Film at the Oscars, and this was Palestine' submission to that year's Oscar Awards for the Academy Award for Best
Foreign Language Film. So I wanted to just triple check sort of what films were nominated that year because this film was submitted but not ultimately nominated, right, and so this would have been for the eighty first Academy Awards, so for the year two thousand and eight. And while it was not ultimately nominated, an Israeli movie was, and that is I think it's just worth calling out a
very common occurrence in the Academy Awards. Israeli movies are very very very often nominated for Best International Film, which given liberal or not liberal US politics, shouldn't be surprising, but is worth mentioning.
Well, the other thing about the director is that she has so much award and festival recognition for her films, but because she's a Palestinian woman who directs movies about Arab people, she's like not a big name in Hollywood, so she doesn't get the recognition she deserves in this film industry here in the US. But if you look at her list of accolades and awards and festival recognition, it's like so much stuff. It's just not like a mayor like Hollywood.
Yeah, this is really common with Arab filmmakers or car the board. The Palestine is a particularly strong filmmaking country and some of arguably the best filmmakers in the region come from there, not just Addmiry Jasser, but like Ilia Suliman and Hani Abu Asad, like speaking of like the oscars. Ilia Suliman was the first had the first Palestinian film ever submitted, which was not until two thousand and two,
and Hanyabusad had the first nominated Palestinian film. But yeah, none of the three of them are highly recognized in the Western world. And sorry, this is something that frustrates me so much every day and as a reason I started the Cinema Arabias screening series I do at Nighthawk Cinema. I get so frustrated because so many cinephiles, movie lovers and people in the film industry have never seen an Arab film and don't know who any of the big
names are. Like Elia Suliman should be like an autur that you know, you know what I mean, Like that is like at every and his films have been at all the big European film festivals and whatnot, and he has the energy of like an Ocher French filmmaker, but people don't know his name and it drives me nuts. I know exactly why this is the case, Just centuries of vilification in the media and uh, you know, anti
Arab racism and stuff like that. But but yeah, getting back to Anne Marie, she deserves well do we want the approval of the Academy? Do we really care?
But well, yeah, sure she did.
There's all the accolades regardless, Yes.
Any trophy. Yeah, you're just like the award body that rewarded Green Book, you know who knows.
Very good point.
The Academy awards too, don't leave a lot of space for international cinema in general. I don't know if people know this. People don't have a lot of understanding of how the film industry works in general, starting with the fact that you have to submit your film to the Oscars. It's not just every film ever that gets is in the running.
And there's like particularly like screening, very like sort of ridiculous screening rules where it has to run in a certain place for a certain amount of time.
Is that right?
Yeah? I think it needs in New York or maybe it's just an American run or a New York in an LA run, but it needs a proper theatrical run. It can't be a film festival, it can't be a one off screening and That's why sometimes you'll see a film that will just like randomly be at like a weird theater for a week in the fall, just to qualify. Yeah, but a lot of international films don't get that opportunity
because they don't have distributors in the US. And then on top of that, they're more likely to be picked up by little indie distributors that don't have the money to submitting to the OSCAR is past so much money, plus you have to run a campaign on top of that, and then yeah, it's like the one that in what's now called Best International Feature Film category is really the one place and every country gets to submit one. Yeah, right,
I don't know, I am. I think the Academy Awards should just accept that they're like an American award body and lean into it. But hand you over.
No, I mean, I think you're totally right where it just feels like if folks were truly that surprised when a non American or English movie one Best Feature five years ago, then you're not a global film festival, like be honest with yourselves, you know. Yeah, I was happy to see and it makes me want to see more of anry Jascer's movies that this seems to be the beginning of a very fruitful collaborative relationship with her and Salah Bakri. I guess he's in all of her features,
all three of them, so they're besties. I just love when someone's like, and here's my guy. Yeah, he's her DiCaprio and she.
Includes his father in the film. Waship that the two of them play a father son duo in the film.
Very nice. Yeah, that rocks. Also. I didn't make this connection un till just now, but I recently saw the film Omar, another Palestini movie from twenty thirteen. The titular character Omar is played by Adam Bakri.
Oh his brother.
Yeah, that's his brother, who.
Is also so hot, like ridiculously handsome. I know we were just talking about that, but I didn't put the two and two together that that's him. So now I know all the dots are connected. Very handsome family. We love a hot.
Family, very handsome, very talented family. Yeah. I know their father directed some films.
I was seeing that too.
Yeah yeah, I don't know if Adam has directed anything, but anyway, very talented family.
I also want to shout out the actor who plays Soraya yes Suhara Hamad, who, much like her character, her parents are Palestinian refugees. She was born in Jordan and then her family relocated to Brooklyn when she was five, I believe, and then later Staten Island. She's a poet and author, a political activist. She obviously acted in this movie, but she's not necessarily like an actor by trade, although you wouldn't know because she gives such a great performance
in this movie. But this is kind of one of the only film roles she's done where she's like in a fiction film playing a character kind of thing. She's done like narration for other things.
But she's also won a ton of awards for like her writing. Yeah, exactly, yes, Jack all trades, but yeah, I mean, all of the performances in this movie are are so good, which is wonderful because you know, the movie doesn't work without them. But the I think, especially like the chemistry between the two main characters is so well. I guess I'm curious what people thought of that, because I'm always sort of blown away when I'm very pulled
into a story. But I like this relationship so much because you're pulled into their friendship connection first, and it's so clear that they understand each other as people, and the moment that they're meeting is so important that it just makes sense that it grows into this romance because they're both so beautiful. So you're like, well, at some point you should kiss.
Like, yeah, the two hot people have to have to kiss. That's just the rules.
And this movie is not afraid to make the hot people kiss, and I appreciate that, but I just really, I mean, there are so many there's a number of conversations between them before they get together that just I mean, I'm yeah, I'm curious what you both felt about it, but how they are both to some extent representative of very different Palestinian experiences. You know, where Soriah wants nothing more than to stay and she can't, and Mahmad wants
nothing more than to leave and he can't. And they both love Palestine and that is not that is a core thing that they agree on, but their experiences of Palestine are so different. And it's a really beautiful friendship to watch develop first, which is why when it turns into a romance and even when she's like, should I have a baby? I'm like, yeah, you probably should like those more of these people.
Yeah, they definitely could have gone down the route of like because they become friends and such like a sudden way where like they see each other and then she like sees him in his car and she just like gets in and it's like she's like.
You're my friend now, by the way, Yeah, exactly.
You know, a worse film would have been like I get into your car and we're in love now, right, But they really she gives them some time to flesh
out their connection and yeah, their friendship. Like you said, I think it's a great film about the representation of the diaspora experience, and that's a whole complicated thing, like this longing for home, but you come from a situation of privilege compared to the people back home, and then especially for Palestinians who are pretty effectively stuck, it's I don't really have much to say about it. It's a situation that I am familiar with, but my situation is
much different than the Palestinian situation. I do have the ability to go back to some degree, but there's always this push and pull, and I see it a lot, especially whenever things get bad in places like Paulus Signer or Lebanon. It creates a tension between the two people. So it's nice to see it enacted on screen like that, And I think it's an important conversation to have. Usually you see one or the other, what to see it together?
Yeah, what Really the scene that really struck me is when they were discussing how she wants to be there because this is her home and this is where her family's from, and she feels this connection to this place even though she hasn't spent time here prior to this. She grew up in the US, but you know she's drawn to this place because this is where her roots are. Meanwhile, Emma is like, you know, he's disillusioned with living in
this occupied place, under this occupation. And the conversation they have where he's like, don't tell them the truth about why you're here, Like you should have lied and said that you're visiting Jewish friends, because you know, telling the truth makes their job easier in their job being like oppressing Palestinians. And she says, well, why should I lie?
Like all we have is the truth, All we have is our truth, and he's like, you know, the truth never helped anyone here, Like, look around, they've won.
Yeah, he basically is like grow up.
Like open your eyes, look around you. But like I see where both of them are coming from. You know, the way the scene just plays out is in their emotions and all of that is just really impressive and moving.
Yeah, I really appree. Again, just like I feel like her writing is so specific and the performance is just elevated. But how we fully understand how all three of the main characters really feel. I love that they're all so strongly motivated to rob a bank for three very different reasons, and like that is so hard. You don't get that in Oceans eleven. You just don't. Some people are like, well, I don't know, I guess I'll do it, But like
we know why they're there. They're all doing a common goal for a particular reason, and no one is presented as like they're doing it for the wrong reason. This character is doing it for the right reason. We're just given the context of why, and they all like and respect each other and work together even when they think what the other person is doing is reckless or stupid.
I feel like all three characters, but particularly in mod and Soriya both have moments where I mean, with I mod it's at the restaurant with Soya, it's at her grandfather's house where they cannot contain their emotion anymore because it's just it's too much, it's too upsetting, and I feel like, again, a lesser movie would have the other characters be angry with them, but there's just like such a fundamental understanding, even though they're under standings and experiences
in Palestine are quite different, like Emma doesn't need to ask why were you so mad back there?
You know?
And even with I mean the limited exposure we get to Israeli characters and certainly didn't need to have more
than we had. But I did appreciate again that the writing took care to show a gradient of villainy and not even like less so, but like different types of prejudice, because I do feel like just in movies in general, like liberal prejudice is not shown very often, or like not shown well because it's like if you see it, you see it in like a right wing movie, and at that point you're like, well, what, you know, why
am I engaging with this at all? But I love her writing so much because all of it is just so organic.
Yeah.
Yeah, and the showing the liberal Zionis, I think is so it's so important. I won't mince words. Those people drive me nuts. It's the kind of people who, yeah, want there to peace, but don't understand what causes the war, the violence, attention anyway, they don't recognize their own privilege in society. Kind of people who condemn Netanyaho without investigating anything further, and they're really not part of me is trying to like hold back because I don't know any publics. Yeah,
they're like not they're not helpful to the cause. And that the same goes for like the American liberals in general. But if we're speaking specifically on the the liberation of Palestine, like holding hands is not what's gonna what's going to free those people? Is that what's going to free any of us?
And the way this character is handled in this like kind of just larger situation as far as liberal Zionism goes, which like kind of represented by this one character, this Israeli woman who lives in the home that belongs to Soriah and her family, where like when they first go in, oh she's friendly, Oh come on, in stay as long as you'd like. Oh, what a horrible situation. This is all this violence. Everyone just wants peace, right except for our leaders. And then she says something like, oh, your
grandfather left in nineteen forty eight. That's so sad. I wish he had stayed. And it's like you're saying that as you're living in the house that your family stole from him, So you don't wish that he's stayed. You feel entitled to this stolen house. And then this like fake allyship and this whole facade of being nice and friendly starts to unravel when Soriah very rightfully says like, this is my home. It's actually for me to decide
if you get to stay here. And I say that you can, but you need to acknowledge that this is a stolen house. This is my house and you stole it, and this woman cannot do it. And she just says nine to one one and she calls the cops instead.
Yeah.
Well, which is like such a widely applicable message too, because it's like in the US, how many white families are descended from thieves. Yeah, it's just she has big black square on Instagram energy where she wants to be perceived as doing the right thing, but when it comes to a personal action, she is like horrified to even be asked, Like I thought that I don't know who the actor was, but just how flippant she was where she was like, well, of course not and if you try,
it's not going to work. And she's like juicing an orange and it's just like walking past her and is just so it seems like annoyed that Soriah would even ask a question.
She did not expect her to be as headstrong as she is.
Right, and I feel like that's so so like it's a very liberal attitude. And now I'm projecting because I am like projecting this onto a lot of attitudes around the California fires right now. But you know, just the idea that like you should be grateful I let you inside. How dare you ask me a follow up question? How dare you ask me a valid question? How dare you say that this is actually yours when that is the truth. And it's just like, well, the open door should have
been satisfactory. And if you irritate me from here on out, I will be contacting the authorities. You're just like sink into the ground, sink into the core of the earth.
Like it's just so, yeah, it's great representation of Allyship that is very performative and only exists as long as it's convenient for them. But they would never admit their participation and complicity in, you know, the occupation and apartheid that Israel is inflicting on the Palestinians. And as soon as she's asked to do that, she just like can't even admit that she's on stolen land and she freaks
the fuck out. And yeah, that's what we see time and time again with this kind of brand of Zionism.
Also, like to go back to Jamie's original point about seeing the levels of evilness. I think this is part of the frustration I have with specifically liberal Zionists. Like net Yaho's a monster, we can all agree on that, but evil comes in all shapes and forms, and.
It's not so there's a spectrum.
Yeah, and real allyship, and like, if you're gonna fight alongside people, you need to learn to recognize that. And you can give people some level of grace as they learn and unlearn things, but yeah, but you have to recognize at some point that they could be really nice to you to your face, say the right things, but don't actually do the right things.
Yeah, I think this movie does a really good job of showing that's spectrum where, you know, you have a bunch of scenes where Soria is either at the airport or at the bank or some you know, interacting with some IOF person and they are being openly hateful and racist and antagonistic. And then you have this other version of it with this you know woman who's living in this stolen home. Then you have that teacher who comes in at the end who's regurgitating the Zionist lie that
this land was empty and barren. We didn't steal it from anyone, It was just here waiting for us. Then you have the guy at the passport office who says that he agrees with Soria and he's on her side, but he's still denying her important documentation and he is
helping to uphold Zionist values via bureaucracy. So we see all of these examples and different degrees of op Prussian and systemic racism, and I think the movie does a good job of showing that there are different versions of this, but it's all under the same umbrella of Zionism and apartheid and occupation.
One of the IOF or customs agents in the airport. I can't remember exactly what they say first, but when they're like asking her all these questions and they go, it's for your safety, and it's like, but you know it's not.
Yeah no, that opening scene and also just how many times that opening scene is HARKing back to it and seeing Soria feel more and more empowered to be like, fuck you, I am allowed to be here. It's so frustrating to see those scenes where you know Sria shows up and like she knows what she's in for, but
like experiencing it is very different. And I feel like, especially her and Emod with this ongoing battle with getting his visa to Canada approved, the thing that brings them both into like we're not going to hurt anybody, but we are going to get this money that I feel like is so frequently ignored in a lot of situations is both of them try every quote unquote like respectable
way to get this done. But the system has been designed to deny them and designed to trap them, and design to keep them apart from either their homeland or from where they're trying to go, just from freedom in general. And I do appreciate that even though it's I mean especially I think of like young people watching this is like they both do everything they can in terms of like this is how you accomplish this, but it's you know, a mod's fourth time being rejected to do it in
the quote unquote correct way. Soriah's doing everything she can in the two weeks she's been provided and is being shut down in this very polite like shrud sorry, nothing I can do. So when they arrive at like we are just going to take what's ours, it's impossible not to be on their side, Like it's just yeah.
And this is so honest to the actual situation. I assume a lot of your listenership already knows about what's going on, But there are some really great documentaries out there that just support this point, one of them being Between Two Crossings about a young woman who gets accepted into college and she lives in Gaza and she can't get through either border and she hasks like all the paperwork that goes into that, and the systems are Yeah, even if someone doesn't believe that, like like if they
believe that, you know, the two Postinian territories, Gaza and the West Bank are you know, they're not technically under occupation whatever. The limitations of movement and the hoops people have to jump through that they can't actually get through is really heartbreaking and it never gets less impactful when you see it on film, whether a fiction or documentary. And it's the way that Israel controls everything. They control the movement of everything into and out of these territories,
including the people. There's a really great film called two hundred Meters from a couple of years ago about a man who his wife has Israeli like residency or whatever it's called. She's Palestinian, but she's part of the forty eight and he does not. So she chooses to live in what is technically Israel because their kids can go to a better school, and he lives two hundred meters away on the other side, and he can only get through to see them when he has a work permit,
and sort of similarly robbing the bank. He's in a situation where his child's in the hospital, so he'll do anything possible to cross that border. But this is like, it's not some sort of crazy fiction. It is just the actual lived reality of a lot of people.
And then it goes without saying that the current reality in Gaza is a holocaust that as we are recording this episode, it's like the day that the ceasefire deal was announced and we're waiting to see what is actually going to be the result of that, if you know, the occupying state that is Israel is going to honor that because they have a history of you know not and still bombing in massacring people, and so yeah, just to provide context to our listeners as far as like
what's going on in the world right now. As we are recording this episode and discussing this movie.
I feel like I keep like we keep talking so much about like the real life politics that feed into this movie, which is so important. But I feel like part of it is because it's hard to because we're in this moment where we're a Palatins top of mind, it's hard to not talk about their reality, for sure. Yeah, but I do something I do love about this movie. We've talked like about a lot of the heavy stuff,
but it also is so sweet and funny. HM and Emory does really does a good job at balancing that and not just making something that could feel like tragedy porn.
Yes, yeah, like we're I think, like again a less thoughtful movie and also a movie not from a palace. Dan director would have probably harped on certain character elements or I feel like, as is so often in movies that skew towards tragedy porn, just not really write a character, yeah, and just define sort of this void like character by their trauma specifically, like they've got jokes, they're funny, like,
and I just I don't know. I really do like the relationship between Sarah and Ahmad, where Ahmad can like loosen up around her a little bit, he can have some fun with her, and that she you know, in a way that like they're learning from each other in a way that doesn't feel the way that you see a lot of hetero relationships presented of like he really showed her how the world works, but like that's that's not how this works.
I mean a uh Titanic with Jack being like here, Rose, let me show you exactly.
Yeah, it could have one gun down that route. M H.
What I especially appreciate is that their love story, whether it's like the platonic friendship at first, and then it I mean, we don't even see them kiss on the lips, like he kind of nuzzles her and like kisses around the neck a little bit. But you're like, yeah, yeah, there's no like big like scene where the camera was swirling around them as they kiss passionately.
Yeah, capital M make capital L love.
Yeah, nothing like that.
No love in basketball virgility scene.
Right.
I appreciate that the like interpersonal romantic love story doesn't overpower the larger story, which is like a love letter to Palestine. It's like the characters loving their home and soriah reconnecting with her homeland, and like that's that's the real story. And then this you know, relationship that blossoms is a fringe benefit of that and like a subplot narratively, But yeah, I like the balance of all of that.
And then to the point of like the moments of levity and joy that you see a few that really stuck out to me, where the scene where Emma takes soria to his home and he's like come in and she's like, nah, oh it's okay, and then his comes out and she's like, oh, my son's so rude, he has no tact. He didn't even invite you in. He's like,
yeah I did, and she's like shut up. And then she brings Soriah inside and she's telling them like the family history of oh, this is where my grandfather was born, this is where my parents grew up, this is where I grew up.
And the whole family is there, which I there cool, like it's like meeting the parents, but like the whole family's there. She barely knows.
This man, right, Yeah, she just like talked to him for the first time earlier today. She's you know, at this family home, and then his mom says, welcome to your country, and I was just like, oh, it like rocked me to my core.
This like harkens back to a very specific relationship, but definitely like I feel like she has been including with Immad at this point, been made to feel like an outsider many many times by Israeli and Palestinian characters at this point, and it's Iman's mother who was the first person that is just so openly welcoming and happy that she's there. And I feel like that she did her son a huge favor in that department of like, okay, if this is your mom, you're probably an alright guy.
And yeah, even though she doesn't come back, I just thought that that was so lovely because at that point, you know, we've been with Soriah feeling so confused and displaced, you know, since moment one of the movie and clearly before, and just seeing someone like welcome her with open arms was so so nice.
I really was.
I wanted to touch on just in terms of like the specific because I know it's like, it's very it feels impossible to not project twenty twenty five onto this movie now. But I did want to go back to how this movie was received at the time, because I honestly was like, any answer wouldn't shock me. I don't know. It was, you know, over fifteen years ago now, and I I guess as expected, the critical reception at the time in the West was mixed in a way that
I thought was like very telling. This has a Rotten Tomatoes rating, which makes no fucking what sense. Yeah, it's ridiculous. I mean a lot of these reviews are quite literally so old that you can't even read them anymore. But the two reviews I was able to access were on NPR and Slant they were both very like. Basically both of the reviews boiled down to this movie is histrionic and over dramatic, which is just so absurd from the first movie directed by a Palestinian woman. To receive it
like that in the US is just so ridiculous. But I wanted to specifically single out. There is a quote in the NPR interview that is just so telling of like where this film critic is coming from, where he refers to Okay, in a fit of supreme frustration, she Soria convinces them to help her rob the bank for the three hundred and fifteen Palestinian pounds owed to her as her grandfather's heir, plus more than sixty years interest.
When the clumsily orchestrated heyst is over, they go on the run to Tel Aviv so that she may see her grandfather's old house. It comes as no surprise when she picks a fight with the kind and sympathetic young Israeli who now owns it. And so it's just like wrong. Yeah, I'll keep going because this review really really frustrated me. But I feel like does clearly put us in a moment in time in American criticism, write director and Marigeous here in her first film, is determined to make important
statements through her protagonists, which is what makes Soriah so uncompromising. Unfortunately, it also makes her less of a character. She often seems little more than a mouthpiece for history lessons on the injustices perpetrated on the Palestinian people. So it's just I don't know. Most of the reviews are not only expectedly written by men, but they're written by white American men.
That just I mean. And I know we've talked about this on the show in the case of so many movies over the years, but this just felt like a really glaring one of just clearly like this movie wasn't made for me, and so it's hysterical and.
It's yeah, yeah, I see it a lot with Arab films in general up into this day. People think a film is bad because they don't get it, because they lack context, or it's not made for them, it does not hold their hand through it. Like sure, Soraya is hard headed. I would find myself sometimes being like, no, you're gonna get yourself in trouble with the way she would speak to people. But it doesn't make her not a character like it is part of her characters, It is.
Part of literally and you get why she's behaving that way. She's very justified.
As like an Arab too. Like I just like get nervous for her when she because she's so outspoken and so confident that she's right, and I am so scared that someone's going to shoot her.
Well, that's the thing, Like her safety is at stake in this context, and yeah, you do, you certainly fear for her, but you also admire her for like I there's a scene where I mean, and again, there's so many scenes where she's interfacing with someone who is like enforcing this red tape that is not allowing her to you know, get the passport she's entitled to, or get the money out of the bank that she's entitled to,
or you know, do all these things. You know, it's this oppressive force that is designed to withhold things from her that she's entitled to. So all this is it. There's a bunch of scenes like that where she's always just like what the fun this is bullshit? She's calling it out every step of the way. And then there
was one that I especially enjoyed it. I think it's when she's crossing back into the West Bank after she went on her like shopping spree of like getting disguises for the for the quote unquote robbery, and the occupier guy is like, hey, no tourists allowed. You can't go here, and she's like, well, where are you from. She's basically implying like you're a tourist, Like, where's your family from? You haven't been here this whole time. My family and
my people have been here this whole time. And it's just it's many situations like that where she's always pushing back. She's not afraid to call out injustices when she sees them, but it does make you like fearful for her safety.
Yeah, I'm looking at the Rotten Tomatoes page right now, and Ella Taylor for the Village Boyce refers to her as a spoiled princess.
Oh my god.
Yeah, thankfully that link. If you click the link to see more. They're like, we've never heard of this review because it's so like the one poll quote.
You're like, oh, okay, idiot, Yeah, it's too bad. But luckily, I think audiences, especially now can see past that, and the film has had a staying power that these Western critics couldn't suppress.
So yes, yeah, for our listeners who if you're listening to this episode and you haven't watched the movie, I highly recommend that you do again. Like Jamie said, is very accessible, at least in the US, if you have access to Canopy, which you can get if you have a public library card.
You should have any you should have one.
Unless you live in New York City, then you don't have Canopy.
But but yes, I know that's one of the few places, right.
They used to but they don't anymore.
Mister Adams said no more.
I think if pre dated Adams really wow. Yeah, so I'd love to put the blame on him regardless, I.
Guess I took. I took the path of please resistance.
If you need a Canopy log in, yes, Mina, I I got you. Yeah, I might.
I should have asked you earlier because I so. I will say for audience members who don't have Canopy, there are two other places to access it that are not going to give your computer a virus. Unfortunately, right now, neither of them have English subtitles, and the film has large portions in English, but is predominantly in Arabic. That bothered me, and I'm going to see if I can figure out how we can get them some SRT files.
But if you are part of Solidarity Cinema, which I highly highly recommend, you just join a Google group and you have access to hundreds of really amazing rare films, including Salt of the Sea. It is also on the Palestine Film Index, which is a wonderful document put together by a number of volunteers over the last year just
noting Palestinian films. Not every film on there has a direct link to watch, but if you the listener, are interested in exploring more Palestinian films specifically, or I should say films that deal with the Israeli occupation because some of them are also from Lebanon and Syria. That is an amazing resource even just to find out what some of the titles and the filmmakers might be. But it also has some links to some things that are otherwise
pretty rare. But yeah, we'll see about getting some English subtitles on those things. I found it on Okay dot Rue, but I would not recommend that.
I mean, look, we've all done it. I did it last I forget why I did it. We will link those because yeah, I follow the Solidarity Cinema letterbox list like they have a very very accessible presence, So we'll link to that in the description.
And I'll just say this that, like I used to work in film distribution, I am all for, especially for indie filmmakers, international filmmakers. Whenever you can give them the money that they deserve and rent the film or stream the film or buy the DVD, I think you should.
But unfortunately so many international films, especially older ones, are not even given that chance, which case, resources like these are so incredibly important to basically archiving and making these films accessible, So nobody say anything about piracy in the show comments. I swear to God, there's a lot of things that I even as a film programmer, there's lots of things I would never be able to show or review myself with how resources like solid Ar Cinema and House and Film Index.
So yeah, as you mentioned at the top of the episode, you provided a list of a bunch of options of movies you would like to cover with us, and several of them, just like are not available to stream anywhere. You can't buy them. There was no way.
Yeah, what is the name of the movie that summer. Farah also suggested that we wanted to cover with her, and then we couldn't. And then yes, Mida you suggested it, and we still couldn't because we couldn't find it.
Probably I'm going to guess it was Amrika.
Yes, that's the one.
Yes, Yes, Well, so that film. Everyone should keep an eye out for it because hopefully it'll come back soon. The director just got the rights back.
Oh, oh, wonderful.
Because the thing that happens to demystify some more of the industry for listeners is, please, films have rights holders, and the best way for them to be seen in the US is to have a US distributor who is then the regional rights holder, and those deals usually last
about ten years. So a lot of times when things suddenly disappear from the Internet, it's just that the rights expired and for whatever reason, that company doesn't hold them anymore, and they're probably just back with the filmmaker who doesn't have the means, whether financially or just the time or
the interest in getting it up on vod platforms or whatever. Yeah, Amrika's I think one of those films that just the licensing ended or sometimes if a company goes under, it just kind of gets lost and it doesn't always easily revert back to the filmmaker. It sucks. The industry is a mess.
But yeah, but.
Yeah, Amrika's an amazing film by Sharen Doabs, who has a new movie at Sundance and also Oho like directs some television and another pest in American filmmaker to watch out for since we're talking about her. Hell yeah, but hopefully in the future you can talk about that film someday.
Yeah.
I'm also going to see if any of these movies you suggested, especially for the ones that aren't on the Palestine Film Index or that like don't have accessibility to watch streaming, if they're available on DVD, I'll check that out, because look, I love a DVD.
eBay is another great resource for finding especially if they did have US distribution. At one point, which a film I suggested that I absolutely love and highly recommend is Caramel by Nadine Labaki. I have the DVD and I think it was like lions Gate or Sony Pictures Classic or something.
But cool.
Yeah, the rights must have the contract must have ended.
It happened with that and with Crossroads famously.
Oh my gosh, Yes, two great films.
Equal quality. Definitely. Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss regarding Salt of the Sea or anything really or anything.
I would love to soapbox for a quick minute. I know we're running short on time, but I just you know, if it hasn't come across clearly by now. I'm very passionate about Arab cinema, and I think a lot of people listening, especially those who are from America, probably don't even recognize what kind of anti Arab biases that they hold.
And I really encourage everyone to speak out international cinema in general, but consider adding some Arab cinema onto your letterbox, watch lists, and if you want to try to unlearn some of these biases or learn why, you know, even if you are supportive an allied, you know, not an overt racist, you might hold some biases that you don't
even realize. A great resource to kind of starting to unpack how the media affects where these come from is a book, book, and connected documentary called Real Bad Arabs, Real Being Are Double E L subtitle How Hollywood Villifies the people They're both by Jack Shaheen. I have a
copy of it above me here. He's really really incredible, and the book just goes through I believe it's like a thousand American films and points out all of the anti Arab stereotypes, and the documentary does it more generally talking about these things. And if anyone listening thinks that this is all a post nine to eleven thing, it is not. It's been going on a really long time,
specifically about Palestinians too. The sort of Arabs as terrorist trope was specifically Palestinians as terrorists for a long long time. And I just get really frustrated when even folks I know in the industry they'll be like, oh, you you know work in Arab cinema. Oh I love this Aronia director. And then I have to be like, you're on Newscasion, it's not Arab. You've never seen an Arab film, have you? So I just I would love if more people watched
our stuff. And part of the reason I brought up some of the like comedy in the film too, is because I think people are afraid of Arab cinema because it can be very very heavy, but there's humor, there's romance, there's horror, there's sci fi, and I just I think we get a bad rap. So that's what I want to say before.
Thank you for out saying that it's all very true.
Yeah, somehow my Instagram has become like a landing point for a lot of people seeking out Arab cinema. So people are welcome to follow me. It's my handle is just yes Meina dot to wheel, so feel free to follow me on Instagram. But I I have a couple directions to send people. They're all linked on my Instagram. But on my website, I keep a Palestinian film calendar. It's specifically for New York City, but I do include limited online screenings that are available throughout the US from
different sites and festivals and stuff like that. And on that page, I have a list of resources of other places to explore and learn about Palestinian cinema specifically, So even if you're not in New York City and can't come to any of the in person screenings listed, it's a great jumping off point if you are in New York City. I also do a screening series called Cinema Arabia. It's every other month at the Nighthawk Cinema in Williamsburg.
There's a Cinema Arabia Instagram as well that you can follow to keep up with it, and that series specifically is to highlight lesser known or lesser shown Arab films that I think deserve more attention and hopefully sort of challenge and excite the curious cinephile. But also too, there is the Arab Film and Media Institute, the Arab American National Museum, MISNA, and RT East, which are like four of the big Arab film and cultural organizations here in
the US. So I would check any of them out, though I'm not personally associated with any of them anymore, but they're all really great places to go. And then, oh then one more thing to promote. I no longer specifically program in Arab cinema. I am the new film programmer at BAM, so you will be seeing more for anyone in the New York City area, you will be seeing more Arab cinema in the BAM lineup, but not exclusively.
My first program I will plug is at the end last week of February and it is dedicated to counterculture pioneers from the Middle East. So if you want to learn about the first hip hop group in Palace Sign or the first all female thrash metal band from Lebanon, or the first professional skateboarder from Morocco. That'll be the last week in February, and then in general, I encourage you to come see some movies at the Brooklyn Academy of Music.
This is wonderful, I mean, because it's frustrating on our end to have so many great options for movies to want to cover and then have to kind of go with. I mean, we lucked out here because alt of this is incredible, but for the access to be so limited, it is frustrating.
It's very frustrating.
Yeah, I mean I can't imagine like what your day to day is like, but I'm so grateful that you are doing so much of the work to make Arab cinnemon more accessible and we will yeah, continue to share however we can be supportive of your work is what we would love to do.
I appreciate it. And if you ever want to talk about non Arab cinema, I'm also down.
Yeah, come back, talk about whatever you.
Want, whatever your favorite movies are. We're we're down for anything.
We can talk about my favorite film of twenty twenty four, which is the Kneecap movie.
Oh my god, that movie was so good, Katelyn, I haven't seen it. Caitlin's side, Yeah.
It rocks. It's so great. A movie that does not pass the Bechdel test. But you know what movie does pass the Bechdel test, Salt of this Sea. It is mostly the conversation between Soriah and the Israeli woman. I mean, she does talk to her friend Krinn, and she talks to Imad's mom. But this is an example of a movie where it's like, even if it doesn't handily pass, or even if some of the conversations that pass are
like contentious, difficult conversations. As we've always said, the test is a jumping off point and there is much else to discuss. So to me, the more relevant metric is the nipple scale of the famous spectral cast nipplescale, where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think this is such an important and moving movie. Wow, oh whoa watch out world, I'm a poet. I think this is
just so terrifically done. And I think the way Soriah the characters is represented in her journey of reconnecting with her homeland and advocating for herself and advocating for her people, and the story just like being a love letter to Palestine and the connection she makes along the way, and the thing she has to deal with along the way. Like everything about this narrative is just so poignant and
beautiful and heart wrenching and just so well done. I feel like, I don't know why I wouldn't give it nipples.
But what about Marjuan, Well, yeah, that's okay.
That was something I wanted to talk because I Marwuan and I'm a Marwan Truther. I love that guy. I want to see his film. He reminded me of whatever I was like middle schooler who was really into Rent, and he reminded me a lot of Mark from Rent, where you're like, he's making a movie.
Is it good?
We're not sure, but he's really into it. And I love a character like that. I do wish. I mean, just because it seems like we're introduced to Karne, I think, who's like a potential friend for Soriah at the beginning, but then she really only does seem to come into contact with men for the remainder of the story outside
of this horrible Israeli woman. I just am like, if I could be so nitpicky, I would love if we just adjusted Marjuan a little bit and both, you know, I don't feel like it's like, it's not a gender specific character. I would love to see like, especially coming in you know, in the first widely distributed film by a Palestinian women, see a woman filmmaker and maybe not have her cozy up with the Israeli antagonists that the
guy from NPR loved. Yeah, that's my hyper that's my little little thing because I wish that there had been more. Even though we see women allies for Soriah, we don't really get to know any of them. I mean, even like getting to know the mother better, who made her feel so welcomer. It felt like a lot of the women characters who weren't soah were a little bit like very in and out of the story. But that's very nitpicky.
I do think it was like a little weird the way Karen is introduced and then never seen again.
Where what was her deal in the bank when they're taking the money back? We like get a cut to this woman who looked just like her, But I'm like, I don't know if that's her. If I just like am having a facial recognition problem.
I don't remember. But it could have been a little easter egg because Soraya is completely covered in an obeya, so she wouldn't have recognized her, And that could have been a fun poke by the director to be like someone she knows who could rat her out effectively.
Who could recognize her doesn't right.
That would have been fun.
Yeah, I think that's the intention. I think we cut to like a shot of Krinn. I think I don't know.
Karin is in and out so fast. You could show me a picture of her right now and I would have no idea who she was.
Yeah, like, there's not sure what her deal is, but best of luck or goodbye.
Yeah. It just seemed like so weird to introduce what was set up to be an important character and then she just never shows up again. So yeah, but it is nitpicky because ultimately I think the story doesn't necessarily need Kurin nor.
I think even so, Yeah, I'm gonna stick with five nipples. I think this is just such an important movie recommend everyone watch it, and yeah, five nipples. I'll give them to a Mari Jaesser and Sarah the character, as well as Suher Hamad the actor.
I'll go four and have off of our our researent discussion. But I mean even with I mean, I think Soria is such a strong central character. I love that she pulls both from the actor's experience and from the writing and directing ability. And I just I don't know, I love this movie. I really wish slash hope. I feel like this is the kind of movie that should be shown in like schools. And I mean this in the
most positive way. It reminds me of the kinds of movies you would watch in history class, but it's an area of history that American public schools take no interest in whatsoever. But I think it would really resonate. I mean, and like you were saying earlier, yes, you know it can resonate with everyone, but I think also does a very subtle and thoughtful job of just illustrating an everyday person's predicament. So yeah, I think it's wonderful. I'll go four and a half nipples. I guess I'm going to
give three. Damn Mary Jasser. Oh gosh, really difficult decisions to make here. I will give one to Sahar Hamad. I will give one two. Oh my gosh, wait where we see this Wikipedia page?
For what it's worth. Sucks.
They don't even have a cast list, and I'm just like, how am I supposed to?
I will say, I was like trying to look up the character the Israeli woman's name, and I could not figure it out.
I don't think she's listed like on IMDb.
Yeah, they've got like even on like you know the way like Google will show you like the top cast when you look up a film. They have like the cat collar before they have her.
Okay, I think one, my fourth will go to Salah Bakhry, and then my last half nipples. I think I want to bring up a while ago, one of my favorite movie tropes in the world someone wearing a T shirt with just the name of where they came from. So I'm going to give my last half nipple to Soria's shirt that just says Brooklyn. I love that movie trope so much.
Between that and her accent, there is no question You're like, we get it. She's from Brooklyn.
Yasmina how about you.
I would also give it four and a half nipples for the same reasoning Jamie had so disappointed in Marijuan. Mostly I wish uh tisk I think he deserved better. But yeah, I would like to give them all to Stella. That's it. Maybe to the whole Bakra family, even the ones who are not in it. Sorry, but this is this is not very bechdel cast of me to give it all to men, but men, just.
To multiple generations of men. This did maybe want to see her her most recent feature with Sala Bucky and his Father, though, I.
Mean like it, just that one. It sounds great, truly impossible to find online. If I find a copy, I'll send it to you.
But yeah, let us let us know.
It's been kind of heartbreaking because her other films have been on and off accessible, but that one. I don't know what the deal is, so damn.
Yeah, keep his posted, and thank you so much for coming on the show like this. This has been so wonderful.
Thanks for having me. Of course I've been I've been waiting for the call, so I'm so delighted to be here.
Where can listeners follow you online and follow your work?
Yeah, so my handles on every everything are my name, Yes, Mina to wheel. My website is Yesmina dashtowheel dot com. It has all the events that I have coming up, whether it's through BAM or Nighthawk or somewhere else, as well as the Polsinian film calendar. I think that's it, or you know, I don't know. Go to the BAM website look at what's coming up next. Yeah.
If you live in New York, go to the screenings and we'll buck you the next time we're there. Yeah, we will, Yes, please. You can follow us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon, where you get two bonus episodes every month, plus access to the back catalog, all for five dollars a month. At patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast.
If you haven't gotten tickets, you can we sell tickets available to our San fond discussion next week January twenty third, or we'll be talking about Titanic. Ever heard of it? And yeah, get our birch at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast. If you're so inclined with that, Let's rob a bank. Let's rob a bank.
Yeah, take back, What's ours exactly? Yeah, Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Volskrosenski. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast