On the Bechdel Cast.
The questions asked if movies have.
Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Oi, it's the Roy Lane episode, isn't it.
I don't want to participate in this.
I think that this is quite frankly disrespectful and I'll say it problematic, leaving me out to when I just want to apologize to the British community for what has taken place.
On this show today.
And then the episode just ends hard cutout. No, I thought it was funny, grow up Britz thinks. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.
My name is Caitlin Derntae. This is our podcast where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. What's the though in it?
Well, here's what it in it.
It is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel back in I Believe the eighties for her famous comic collection Digs to Watch Out For, often called the Bechdel Wallace Test because it was co created with her friend Liz Wallace.
That makes sense.
It was originally intended as a way of talking about how little queer representation of queer women there was in movies, but has since evolved to be compheaded to death. The version that we use of this test requires that there be two characters with names of a marginalized gender who speak to each other about something other than a man for two lines of dialogue or more. Should be a
meaningful interaction, not super worried. Today, we don't need to get into it much further because today we don't just have a wonderful movie to discuss. We have an incredible returning guest.
Let's get to it.
Oh my gosh, she's a culture writer. You've seen her work in Architectural Digest Vogue as well as her substeck Hi Shelley, and you remember her from such episodes as Oh my gosh, what's that Detroit Buffalo?
Buffaloed Buffalo? Do you say Detroited?
I almost said Detroitters?
Detroitters?
Oh great, the show that I still refuse to watch. Okay, well, look I guess I'll watch it. I've never seen it and think it's funny to watch it.
I guess I'll start anyway. It's Shelley Nicole. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
Hi, how are you?
Oh?
You know, thanks for being here. Always a pleasure.
Thank you. I love the accent slipping out. Honestly, I love it.
And we are talking about Rye Lane today. I'm so excited you you introduced me to this movie. So did I really? Yes?
Oh my god, that's my favorite thing.
It's so good.
I will not start talking about it straight away. I'll let you finish your statement.
No, No, it's just it's it's so good.
And I know that all of our histories will be relatively short because this movie came out very recently. It came out in twenty twenty three, directed by Rain Allen Miller, written by Nathan Brian and Tom.
Malia and Shelly. What's your history with this movie? How'd you come across it?
Okay, here's the thing. So it was my You know in movies where they're like they're about to start saying a memory and then that the screen gets hazy, that's what's happening now, So in a hazy moment. It was my first ever Sundance, and this was God, I think Sundance that will be Sundance twenty twenty three, because I went to twenty twenty four and I did not go this year. Yeah, So it was twenty twenty three and it was my first ever Sundance and I had asked
somebody who really loves film. Of course I knew about Sundance, but I never dreamed that I I don't know, I just never dreamed that i'd be there. Right like then I got invited. I got into this like one program where they invite like marginalized critics and they put you up and all this kind of stuff, and I had free reign to see any movies that I wanted to. It was great, you know, like the film programs and all that stuff. But I made it a point not to read too much into what the movies are about.
But I focused on the pictures and I wanted to see as much black shit as I possibly could. So I did not know about ry Lane. I did not know all the history of it, which will like get into with the cast and crew and all that kind of stuff. I just saw two black people and I saw that they were like smiling, right, and they weren't like sad Or in Slavery period close, and I was like, oh my god, that feels like I should go. And
I went to go see it. It was like my last film of that day, which was like my second or third day, and I saw it in saw Lake Versus in Park City because it was just like full up, and immediately when it first started, I was like this, this movie is going to change my life. I sat smack center of it, and I was just like, this is great. I saw it it played through. I gave it like five million stars on letterbox immediately because I
am the person that takes that letterbox. As the credits roll, I don't care, and I knew that I was going to write about it and make it like the star of my Sundance coverage. But then two days later, I was at Sudence for like seven days or eight days, and I had kind of seen everything I wanted to
see by day five. So I saw this movie three more times, like god, and then they give you access to it like digitally, especially like if you're like writing about it and stuff like that, because they want you to be able to really write about it. Went home immediately after the first screening put it on while I was like eating terrible food and Salt Lake City terrible takeout, and was like watching.
It in bed.
And then it came out on Hulu and it didn't come out in theaters, like not by me anyway in Chicago.
Yeah, which is why I think I missed it. Yeah, I have a lot to say about that, but yeah, continuous.
It was straight to Hulu, which was a surprise to me. But I was also super happy about it because then I meant I got to watch it whenever the fuck I wanted came out on Hulu. Watched it immediately, and then I reached out to search like Pictures who is the distributor, And I was like, Hi, I would love for you to give me money to show this to
a bunch of black people in Chicago. And they did the like they gave me, and they gave me like they connected me with like a local person here, because you know, when you go to screenings and stuff like that, like there's usually a representative in the city, and Chicago
is a pretty big movie city. So I'm lucky enough reached out and I was like, I think I reached I sent like four emails before I heard back and then they think they were like okay, and they gave me a bunch of money and I put together a private screening for thirty I think black folks here in Chicago, and I turned this one person's place called lit Bilex to Candle Place into a living room because I wanted it to be like when you just kick back with
your friends and you watch movie in the living room. And I had like couches and all this stuff put on this screening. It was really awesome. I specifically picked the place that had windows that was on the street so that when you walked by, people could see it because I wanted people to take pictures and like, what's this movie? Posted about it on Twitter, which I don't have Twitter anymore, but I still have these posts, and the writers were fucking with it. They were like, this
is so cool. They like responded, it was really cool. This movie just means like a lot to me. I promised myself that I wouldn't overtalk this time. That's not gonna happens funk away.
That's a story. That's amazing.
Yeah, I love this movie so much. I love this movie. I love this movie. I love this movie.
Oh that makes me so happy, Jamie, what about you?
That is incredible? I nothing even remotely close. I wish I didn't know about this movie. I think that I was gonna say, I was like, whoa, I really haven't missed a lot of like movies in theaters that I've
been excited about in the last couple of years. I'm surprised that I missed this, and it's because it wasn't really theatrically in the US, and I think that, you know, it is kind of a stigma everywhere, but it often ends up being true that straight to streamer movies are like I don't rush to watch them as much unless it's a lazy, sebt Christmas movie, and then I run and I don't want.
I feel like we're conditioned.
While it is in no way always true, but to see them more as TV movies and not things to like rush to see, which I think is a real shame and crime in the case of this Boofy, because I would have. I'm so jealous you got to see it in theaters because it is just so enveloping but also rewatchable, and the second you see you're like, oh, this is gonna be a comfort movie. For a really
long time. It's just like I really really really loved it, and I am mad that it wasn't released theatrically because I feel like this is the kind of thing that if it were released theatrically in the US, would even if it didn't like do huge numbers, would have gotten a lot of positive word of mouth.
Hell yeah yeah, and definitely would have given what I like to call it is like the British Love Jones with a happier ending, Like it would have definitely given that sort of millennial black couple like comfort rom com. But so many people like haven't really seen it, and I think it's still on Hulu but still haven't watched it.
Yeah it is.
Yeah.
Also, I mentioned this to you over text the other day, Kitlin, but I was like, oh, and I love when I have a thought about a movie and then I read reviews and someone much smarter than we also had the same thought.
I'm like, we just covered the Before trilogy.
On our Patreon aka Maatreon, and so we just rewatched that trilogy and like, there's so much of the first movie and that trilogy that feels like present in there where it's just I love a movie where two people are walking around and falling in love. I've learned it's just really really sweet, except this is like a much more stylized, like more hard comedy in a way.
I really like it doesn't meander at all, Like I.
Was like blown away and I had all the notes I needed after my first viewing, but I watched it again because it's just very rewatchable.
It's so much fun. The performances are great, and I can't wait to talk about it more.
Really, that's happy you dug it?
Oh it was? It's yes, I loved it. Yeah, Kaitlyn, what was your history with this movie?
I heard about it as we met via you, Shelley. I think you mentioned it at the end of our episode on Buffaloed aka the Detroiters, And I think I said that because I know that you used to live in.
Detroit, right, Yeah, I'm from Detroit.
Yeah, okay, so I associate Detroit with you, and then I just my brain.
The best thing anybody has ever said to me in my whole life, I associate Detroit with you, is like that's the point. So yes, I will like fight on all of my bios to be like she is a detroiter living in.
X y Z.
So oh yeah, sorry interrupt.
Oh no, no, I'm happy to pay you the compliment. But yeah, you mentioned it at the end of that episode, and I was like, oh, I didn't. I've never heard of that. What's that? Because it, I think only got a theatrical release in the UK, and so I looked it up and I was like, okay, And then I made a little mental note of that as like, oh, that could be a movie we could cover later on with Shelley and look at us now, look at us.
But I'm so happy we're talking about it. It's so good.
So I looked it up and then I saw that actor David Johnson in Alien What the hell is it called?
The New One? That's where I know I'm from.
Oh yeah, that's how I recognize him as well. It seems like he's like on the verge of blowing up. I want them to both be on the verge of blowing up, please, But it seems like David Johnson definitely is.
He's in the most recent Alien Romulus.
Okay, I haven't seen.
He plays one of the cyborg robot I forget what they call them in the Alien franchise, but anyway, he's he's that. I was like, oh, that's the same guy from that movie ry Lane, and then finally watched it to prep for this episode, and I similarly really liked it. I am not a big rom com head, but I do like them when they feel grounded and they actually have comedy in them, which most rom coms aren't grounded.
They're very like, look at this ridiculous premise that would never happen in real life, and they don't have jokes in them. They're not actually funny, they're just like tonally light. But this movie has jokes. This movie feels grounded, and I really dug it for those reasons.
Yay. I was also thinking, like, I've seen this like bemoaned in pieces I've read on letterbox, but just in general, how I feel like, especially since algorithms started deciding which movies get made and which don't, there's been no shortage of rom coms, most of which go straight to streaming, but there has been a shortage of rom com leads having actual chemistry. Like there's just so many rom coms I can think of from the last ten years that are like, well, this person is popular and this person
is popular. If we make them kiss, maybe it'll be good. And it is rarely good and less the like, but oh my god, this movie is the exception, the rare exception Dad, where the two leads have incredible chemistry. It's such a believable pairing and you can't help but root for them in a way that I haven't felt in a round common a really really long time.
We're back. Chemistry is back.
I'm so excited to talk about this, and I'm so excited that both of y'all like, actually dug it, because I know that you are also like hella honest when it comes to movies that you fuck with and that you don't. So I was kind of nervous because you know, you kind of feel like you sometimes. I feel like I overhype a film and then someone watches it and they're like, like five stars, and I'm like yes.
To me, so me, no, this movie is so it's so special. I don't know.
I was in a great mood and I watched it at the beginning of a day and then again at the end of the day.
Same. It's good, just randomly for no reason. Weekly nice love it.
Yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back to do the recap, shall we in it? All right, We're back in it, and sorry, I'm not gonna let that go. Also, I watch a lot of staff Lets Flats and the characters say in knit after like every sentence, And.
You turned me on as stath Lets Flats, Caitlin, and I'm eternally grateful.
You know what I said, I was gonna watch and did it, and now this makes me feel you have to won't regret it? Okay? Well then yeah, okay, great slid Okay, perfect, Okay.
The recap of Rye Lane. So we meet Dom played by David Johnson in a bathroom stall at an art gallery. He is crying over a recent breakup. He's like scrolling through Instagram and looking at photos of his ex and her new boyfriend.
He's wearing pink converses.
He's so like Tumblr boyfriend losing.
Yeah.
I was like, yeah, my god, emoting in pink Chuck Taylors.
With high vibrant colors just like it's Tumblr.
Yeah, fifteen year old me would have been shitting herself, like just yeah.
I mean, the costuming in general in this movie is terrific because everything that Yaz is wearing and like her accessories and shoes, and it's just incredible.
It's such a good balance of like the outfits are incredible and they still look like people you would see and actual people, Like you're like, oh, we probably actually could get that outfit if we want to do, which is great.
It's nice.
I think I own everything that Dom is wearing, Like I own those pink chucks you do, so, yeah, maybe Halloween costume. Anyway, So he's crying in the bathroom. Then a woman named Yeah played by Vivian Apara comes into the bathroom and hears him crying, and they interact briefly through the stall doors. She doesn't see his face, but
she does see his pink converse shoes. The art show that they're both at is for Dom's friend Nathan's photos of people's mouths, which his all of the galleries and like the shows that we see of his are very funny and it's.
Just very well done because like, I know so many artists who are just like I don't know so many artists like personally, but like whenever I see so many artists like promoting something on Instagram or something like that, the shows, there's something that is like this, which is so it Somehow I loved that show like I would go to his show.
Like I it seemed fun.
And also it is so like I had it in my notes, like it is so rom com canon that they have to have a cute an at an art gallery they had any rom Com If one of them doesn't work there, they know someone who does.
It's just genre cannon.
And also like there will be a lot of this that I do say, like throughout us talking about this film, but putting blackness in those spaces, in this space of a rom com, do you know what I mean? Like that layered, like having this black artist who is still very himself, but in this very black film featuring this very black art with this black artist who is the black listeners will get it, but like very black, you
get what I mean. Like, but putting those layers of people into this world of rom com is so nice because the trauma is not there. And I feel like with blackness and in rom com they can be funny, but then there's some something has bad, has to happen to somebody somewhere sometime, and it just doesn't happen in this movie.
Everyone's going really nice.
Sorry spoil this movie is very happy.
Oh dare you spoil? No, it's it's very true. And because we've seen time and time again representations of like a woman in a rom com works at a gallery or works at a magazine, but it's like such a white version of that.
Judy Greer is usually there.
Oh yeah she is.
It's shocking she doesn't pop up here. But but there is a very famous actor who pops up in this movie that you're like, wait, what shocking? So good? And I like that he bravely looks like shit in this movie.
It does not look good at all.
Looks I was like, what happened there?
But maybe he just like he just breathed through hair and makeup. He's like, I'm going in raw.
Yeah, anyway, I'm here. I got a few hours, so yeah.
I was like, I want to know that story so badly.
But I feel like there's been a lot of comedy movies that make commentary on rom com tropes in a way that feels very, very kind of ham fisted in the way that it does it. But everything about this movie is so effortless, because like you were just saying, Kitlin, like we're so used to seeing these very white tropes in this genre of like the quirky white art gallery director blah blah blah, And this didn't even occur to me till the second viewing. But even the like quirkiness of our main.
Characters are put on probably because they've watched too many.
Movies like it, and like, I just I loved it, and it doesn't feel like it bangs you over the head with it. It's just like, oh, this is something that could actually happen, like yas being like I just liked that.
You thought I was like a cool girl who among us?
You know, I know, you just usually just really hope you don't get caught in the line. But yeah, it's just I can't say enough good things. But yes, anyways, the movie starts at an art gallery.
Yes, and Dom is there because he's supporting his friend Nathan in his mouth pictures. Yaz is there because she's friends with Nathan's girlfriend Cass. Then Dom comes out of the bathroom and talks to Nathan, who admits that he went to a party thrown by Dom's ex girlfriend Gea and her new boyfriend Eric, so Dom feels very betrayed. By his friend, which.
The more you learn about that situation, the more I'm like, I'm really mad at him.
Why would you do that?
Yeah, what the hell? What the hell? Indeed, then Dom and Yaz kind of link back up. She sees his pink converses and realizes it's the same guy from the bathroom, so she kind of like strikes up a conversation with him, though he doesn't realize that she recognizes him, I think. But they leave the gallery at the same time and
they end up walking together. They cut through Rye Lane. Hey, that's the name of the movie, market think because they're in the movie takes place in different neighborhoods in South London. We'll talk about that and like why the director wanted those to be the locations. But anyway, so they're walking around these neighborhoods. Yes, asks Dom about himself. We learned that he's an accountant.
She's like boring, and he's like, it's my dream.
Which, like, I think that's awesome too, the fact that like this person, this black person gets to have an average, normal ass dream of being an accounting and having a regular ass life when going to his job and then having his girlfriend and like having a family, you know, like just normal, standard, cool, average people dreams. I love that.
Yeah, it was like a thing like a wrongcom trip. I hadn't even thought about it in a long time. But it's like the well I'm doing this now, but what I really to do this?
Yes, He's like, this is what I'm doing now, and it's all I ever really want to do.
I'm pretty happy, I'm happy to say, right, which makes his heartbreak even more sad because it's like he had his life was the way he wanted it to be, but he had to meet.
Yes, it's just how it had to go.
He just had to.
I also love that, just the idea of like a gender neutral bathroom being around meeting space. I'm like, yeah, and it's not commented on. It is just a gender neutral bathroom. They're everywhere, you know. I just thought that was really cool.
I did too, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Plus there's also some other like stuff that like they usually hit us over the head with in films like ones especially after like what twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, But this whole like they just happened to meet that. No one talks about it, No one has to say it again, like, oh, I saw this guy with pink converses in the gender neutral bathroom, and it's like, no, you knew that it happened there and that was it, Like okay, and it was so great.
I love Yes.
Yeah.
I feel like a lot of recent movies that are making attempts to include things like that are like really like patting themselves.
On the back.
You're like, it's a bathroom.
She's a potty, everybody relaxed, a shitter.
It's not that big idea.
Yeah, it's like, if your goal is realism, who would be like here we are in the gender neutral bathroom, Like right, yeah, okay.
So we've learned that he's an accountant. We also learned that he recently moved back in with his parents, I think because of the breakup. We learned that Yeah, works as a fashion buyer, but her dream is to be a costume designer for movies, TV entertainment. We learn also that Dom is on his way to meet up with his ex girlfriend for the first time since their breakup.
That is such a bad walk. I was really like put into a very specific state of mind. You're like, this is one of the most miserable walks of his life. How lucky that the love of his life is there with him.
Right, and so that's what he's on his way to do. Yes reveals that she also recently went through a breakup, though for her she was the dumper rather than the dumpy, and she's like, yeah, he sucked and I walked away. And Dom is like, oh, that's so iconic. Good for you, and she's like, right right, She's like, yes, exactly, that's.
So me and I would do it again.
I just I love her. I've done that where you're like, I'm never gonna see this guy again. Why not be the coolest person in the world to this person will never see again.
And make up a huge fabricated story.
Oh, it's the person you end up in a long term relationship.
So Dom tells her more about his breakup, how he his girlfriend cheating on him with his best mate Eric, who will also be present for this meeting. To clear the air, I.
Hate Eric, I hate Eric, I.
Hate both of them.
Pile of rocks for brains in that air, everyone is I really like Dom has this and I mean this in the nicest way.
He has this like Charlie Brown quality, to him. Yes, where he just like no one respects him and there's no reason why. He's a very sweet person, and I'm just it just feels like people are just yanking footballs from beneath this guy. Left and right.
Yeah, I hate bothom and I hate that he agreed to this meeting, Like I hate that he's going here. I hated every second of it. I mean like loved, hated, but like, why are you doing this? Because this was not for him? This was one hundred percent for her to make her feel better about what.
She did, and she's bringing Eric.
I would be like, even I would have enough dignity to be like, well, no, you can't bring him.
What do you mean by all you can eat restaurant?
Oh my god, have I Theraphy been to a place like that. I had like a work functions that took place at I think then MICUs. It was like it was a Korean barbecue, but there are no a Brazilian barbecue with the cards and it is one of the most stressful eating environments I've ever been in because I was working Kitlin and was when I was working at the Comedy Theater in Boston, and it's like a very male dominated space and they were competitively like getting.
The meat sweats. They were like, don't turn the card to red.
And I was like one of two women there and I was like, this is my nightmare. It's like men trying to eat meat until they die to prove a point.
It was, Oh my god. It's a great place to set a scene.
I loved because it just adds tension of like, and the most annoying person in this scene will be eating meat the whole time.
Why it's I mean, it adds to the humor. I can't complain. So Dom and Yes arrive at this meeting spot at this restaurant. She offers to go in with him, and he's like, no offense, but this is important and you're basically a random person, so no, thank you, fair And she says fair and they part ways. So Dom goes in Gia his ex, and Eric his best mate or formerly best mate.
Let's hope.
So, but then is it not Eric who helps him move?
Ye?
Later in the it is so they're hanging out again.
Yeah, I know that Eric is a puzzle to me. He's a total cipher.
I'm like, what is good? What is going on in this man's head has to be nothing for anything. He makes sense.
I do feel like I've met a handful of people like this in my life, where he's like, well, I like them both, so I guess without thinking about the traumatic interpersonal stuff, He's like, what, they're both fine in my book, they didn't do anything to me.
Like he also gets fired for peeing in bottles and leaving them in his work locker and then being like, that's not what that is.
He's like, they're so political there, I can't believe it.
My brother had a roommate like that once. He had a peepea bottle roommate pepe bottle. I'm wondering how common an experience this is for CIS men, because when my brother brought it up, he's like, it's happened to my friend too.
I was like, what, Oh, but there's a lot of peep bottle guys out there.
I think I remember. Isn't like, what's the peepee bottle guy?
Oh?
Wait, it's Frank.
I think it's Frank, because this is the type of guy that's out that we believe they walk among us.
Don't see that. That's terrifying. You could walk fast one and not even know it.
I'm sure it's happened more times than.
One could be your friend.
I did did a guy once that had an emergency bottle in his car and cause he had to pee too much. And I'm just like, not suffer, suffer, I guess at the end of the just just suffer.
And also if that is so necessary, please don't tell me about it.
No, but yeah, I like again, just like such a good specific of like an he's.
A Peea bottle guy, and.
Of course and none of them ever think a thing of it. They're like, it's good for the environment. And it was like, no, that wasn't that Frank's thing, the.
Peep bottle guys. Yeah, because he was making sun tea he said, like rockets.
Yeah, and he was like watering his plants with them, something I forget.
But it's like a survivalist thing too.
I feel like it's this weird, hyper macho survivalist like bear grills lived, like, don't do that.
At least in water World, Kevin Costner peas into this apparatus that like filters his pee into drinkable water afterward, So.
We should do water I've never seen I've only seen the live show at Universal.
Syd which I'm saying is not canon. That's really cool.
It takes the vibes from water World the Future film and really emulates them. Water World the movie is not good and I hate Kevin Costner, so I have no wish to cover water World, but I would.
It's my brother in law's favorite movie, which like whoa. My cousin told me this. She like said it in a low voice. She was like, she was like, it's Justin's favor movie. I was like, what She's like, I don't know.
I don't know.
I kind of want to watch it now. I've never seen anything.
Don't they drink pea in Dune? I haven't seen those mean, oh you.
Know they might. I kind of forget. I have seen the available Dune movies. Oh not the David Lynch one, but the Dinny ones, and I could not tell you a single thing that happens in any of them. I don't understand what those movies are about anyway.
Anyways, Yeah, I mean in general, like, if you could avoid putting your pea and bottles, you should think that's a fair boundary.
I agree.
Yeah.
Anyway, so Eric, the peepea bottle guy is there, as is Gia, and they basically ask for permission from Dom to not feel guilty anymore about the huge betrayal they committed against him. They just like don't want to hold themselves accountable at all. And just then Yas comes in pretending to be Dom's new lover, saying that they met recently at this epic karaoke night they hit it off their you know, sexual chemistry was rippling throughout the room love and Shea is like very jealous, and.
Yeah, because Gia is I feel like the darkest side of many of us, where she's like this dinner to basically humiliate her ex who is already like she's just kicking him while she's down, but the idea of him moving on makes her so upset.
Yeah, and like I just feel like.
This is a very dark part that exists in everyone personified. And You're just like sitting at Gia their soulmates, and you're dating pee Pee bottle guys.
Right, it's the thing of like I am over them, but I don't want them to be over me, or like.
Yeah, right, it's like a narcissistic thing.
Yeah, like I don't really like them, but I want them to have a crush on me, Like I've definitely felt that and.
I've done it.
Yeah, I mean it's like who among us hasn't been like if this person I'm disinterested in doesn't want to marry me, I'll die And like what is that? I've definitely been guilty of it. But it's like you just want to win for Dom so bad at this point. That is so awesome when Yas comes in.
Right, because she comes in again, their chemistry palpable, and also Yes quickly abandons any sense of pleasantries and be rates Gia for cheating on Dom with you know, peepee bottle dipshit Eric.
Yeah.
Yeah, And she's a neutral party. She could just be like, clearly he sucks and you're mad about.
It, like and you shows him like please.
Oh, I love it.
Right, And so she comes in with this very like mic drop moment and then Dom and Yes run out afterward and they're high on the energy. They get some food together, which are burritos served to them by Colin Firth at a place called Love Guactually.
So many layers to this bit, so many, and it's a perfect bit. Like I I was in the theater and I called myself the Leonardo DiCaprio meme like, because I was just very much like, oh my gosh. And then I did it again. When I saw the name of the place, I was like, oh my god, are you kidding?
Like it is so I mean, if you're a fan of rom coms at all, it's very clear what's happening here.
But I was curious, Yeah, like what how this happened?
Because it's so wrong com. It's also so British, so it's there's just multiple layers. So yeah, but the most I was able to find was Rain Allen. Miller explained how this came together sort of in our radio interview. So she says, I decided I really want to do this thing where we have a shop that's like about
a burrito or something. I said it to my partner and I was like, it has to be somebody like you know who in there, and my partner just suddenly came out and went, what about love quactually, and I was like, oh my god. And it was the best thing ever.
And so I guess they just like reached out reverse engineered yea.
And yeah, it was so cool. And she viewed this as sort of like a baton pass. David Johnson also, I don't know, like they.
Were superstarstruck because it's such a weird thing that happened.
They also call him callin. Yeah, I wonder if he's playing himself.
What are you doing here? Why don't you have a bored tell me what's going on?
I don't know, and.
I guess that they like all it sounds like it was like a very magical day on set.
And like David Johnson said, I just thought it was you know, he's absolutely incredible and he was so humble, so kind and giving, and it was just like a dream. And he gave us the best spits of advice for our career, like a real career, and hopefully we used them. I was like, oh my god, it's so sweet.
I'm glad he was nice, because if he was mean, I would be damn.
Hopefully, I mean never say never. Hopefully if he was a horrible person, we would know by now. I don't know, but I just I just love that.
Like every recollection of this is like everyone's gushing like woooo, this was so fun and it's such a sweet, weird moment that is not replicated anywhere else.
In the movie.
Right, this seems like the type of thing that could be like a running bit if like later they run into like Hugh Grant or something.
I mean, I wouldn't be mad. I wouldn't be mad, right, but uh no, it was.
It was a great little one off joke. Also, love guactually, I mean that's how I would pronounce it. It makes me wonder if, like with an English accent.
I think they might say they.
Do actually, Yeah, it actually doesn't work here.
Yeah, so it is love actually actually, which just hurts my feelings that way.
Love guacchole, Yeah, guacasole.
Guacachole doesn't quite work here in the same way.
But anyways, just a very very sweet moment in the sweetest movie ever.
Yes, So they get their burritos and then they walk through a park they talk talk a little bit more about their recent breakups. Yes says that one of the reasons she broke up with her boyfriend is that she's like, you know, when there's a bunch of tourists on a boat and they wave at you, Well, he was the type of person who wouldn't wave back, and I want someone who will waves back.
This is like such a perfect rom com line because.
It makes sense too, Like you want someone who like waves beadind because it shows that you're just kind, you're playful, you're like sweet, and you're not just like, ugh, that's just not cute.
You're not too good for anything, Like, no, it's so cute.
And then we get oh, I don't want to Well, keep going.
It pays off later. Yeah, it's so.
It's perfect realm com writing. It's perfect roalm com writing.
I love it, Yeah, for sure. So then they head to a bar. Yes gets a call about a costume designer job interview, which she blows off like it's supposed to be that day and she's just like, can't make a sorry buy. She then tells Dom more about her relationship ending Her ex boyfriend Jules was this like self righteous, joyless guy who was unkind to her. So she pretended like she was about to give him head and then instead dumped a bunch of hummus that she made on
his dick and got the fuck out. That's how they broke up.
The way that that scene is shot, I mean, we'll talk about the cinematography and a bit, but like the way it's especially when you learn what happens later in the movie, it makes even more sense because it shot like a dream sequence.
Yeah, but I just ugh the way this movie is.
I saw some people being like I normally wouldn't like Fish Eye View, but this movie is so good that I quickly forgot about it. And I mean, I don't have any As a former MySpace girly, I have no issue with a fish Eye lent absolutely and I I was like, yes, this is closed, this is my culture limography anyone Boca affect anybody.
But like it's just so cool and a word. I was telling my fiance about this.
Yeah, her fiance I love ram, I love comm.
But but I was telling him. I was like, it's just.
So cool to see a like current rom com that is actually stylized and isn't just so again, like when you think about a rom com streaming on Hulu, which this shouldn't have been exclusively, but like you just think of total flat no color editing, like just Ai looking kind of an editing style, And this.
Movie is so visually cool in a way that all rom coms deserve to be and are not.
Totally right because like it's like the artistry of film the I think gives a lot of like film bros. What they think is permission to discard movies that like don't have very stylized things, and because rom coms usually don't, they're like.
Well, that's not real cinema.
I like, dude, even though it right, name one thing that happens in Dude, your.
End, but you know it's not tho all movies have to be super super stylized or anything like that. But I do appreciate that this one is because it just it elevates it so plus they.
Needed to for the we'll probably get into this, but they needed to film it so stylized without the color and the lighting and stuff because both leads and most people in the movie are dark skin and like they really makes them pop. Like in most rhyme coms, you don't have to worry about the lighting and the colors because you usually have just two pale white people or
like some like interracial couple or something like that. But this one, like everyone is most of the cast is like dark skinned folks, so even background actors and like extra like. So I think that added into why they needed to shoot it such a way or like specifically, it also helped bring out the beauty in the story and the people all at the same time by shooting
it such a stylized way. It reminds me of Insecure, Like everyone always talks about if you ever need to see like no one in the world can ever say you can't shoot black people a certain way, because just look at Insecure, Like there's nighttime scenes, there's scenes where it's really dark inside the house and it's still so vibrant and like, so yeah.
It's like if you say you can't do it's because you're fucking's lazy exactly at best, exactly just like some of my favorite background acting I've ever seen where it's just so like I'm so curious, like how casting worked for this movie, because every background actor is doing something specific and funny and just like draws you like doesn't distract from the story, but also like makes you feel a real love for the communities that they're walking through, because it's just like people.
Going about their business, but in like a very i don't know, like sweet wholesome way.
I think about like the two school kids who were playing some weird game in the background of one scene, You're just like.
Think about the balloon lady when they're.
Going, yeah, she's like popping all over balloons trying to get out.
The door right right, Like it's just like a more magical version of the real world. It's so special. Anyways, what's happening in the movie?
Oh, let me tell you?
So?
She has just dumped her boyfriend by pouring hummus on his penis, but in her haste to leave, she accidentally leaves behind her cherished a tribe called quest Record Damn. So Dom is like, well, you helped me, now I'm gonna help you get your record back.
It's also partially so that they don't have to stop stopping out.
She's just such a sweet thing where it's like they have to keep finding these excuses before one of them finally has to be like, I like you, please don't.
Leave before sunrise.
I know.
It's so great.
Yeah. Anyway, so they try to get into the ex boyfriend, Jules's place because he's out of town right now, but when they try to get in via the key that yeahes has, she realized that he has changed the locks. So then they go to Jules's two moms' place to look for a sparakee.
Such a fun detour.
If you're not paying attention, you might miss it, you kind of might miss it, you kind of might be like, wait what because I think I know, I know that I did not. First of all, that's a lie, but I think I definitely did have to do a double tape, Like I had to pay attention and look at the house and the pictures and stuff, and I was like, ah, okay, cool, mm hmm.
And so they show up at this house and it turns out that they're throwing a party, so Dom's like hanging out at the barbecue. They're judging him for the music on his phone because it's all like sad breakup music. There's high jinks with Dom looking through the moms's underwear drawer. Then at one point, Dom overhears Yaz telling Jules's moms that she's only hanging out with Dom because she heard him crying in the bathroom and felt sorry for him.
Dom is sad. They eventually leave the house and he confronts her about this and she's like, yeah, I did feel sorry for you, but I'm also enjoying hanging out with you, but now we're.
In love, right, It's okay, We're fine.
Yeah, And they discussed possibly hanging out again at some point, so they numbers and then they part ways cut two. They're together again moments later on a mopead because Yaz learned that even though the moms didn't end up having a key to Jules's flat, Yeas's friend Mona does. So they go to Mona, who runs a karaoke night at a club.
Oh and now we're coming full sick.
Yes, I love it.
When they were on the moped, it was a stormsy song, which like iconic, like so good, so good, so good.
So it's a great soundtrack because then they go and sing Shoop by Salt and Peppa at the karaoke night.
In the dorkiest way place.
It's so cute. But they're bringing down the house.
Well not at first, but only together.
Not at first yeah, yeah, so great.
Yeah, but when they joined forces, they kill it, just like how they described in the fake story of how they met that they to Gia and it's exciting.
It's so exciting.
The first time I saw it, I like my job. I was, like I truly did, because usually I mean, in a subpar rom come, you can see a scene like that coming from a mile away, and I did not see it coming at any organic and sweet.
And not corny, Like not I mean like corny in the sense of they're doing this karaoke woman, but not. It wasn't corny. It was so cute. It was like, damn, they're really realizing more how much they like each other. And also in that moment, too, we get to see a little bit of Vivian Opero's character. Yet you could see the real her. She's like, not this girl, She's not that girl that she's been for the past like seven hours. She maybe a little bit, but it's not really her, you know.
Yeah, she does like retreat into herself a bit.
Yeah, it's really Oh my god, I just loved it.
Where you realize I mean that is like a very special moment in any like any kind of relationship too. I think, like in a friendship, a romantic relationship, a family relationship, where you just realize someone is a little shyer than you thought they were is such an intimate, sweet thing.
So they sing the karaoke song and they're like all energized from that, and then they make out a little bit, and then they head back to Jules's place with the key and they get inside, but just then Jules and his new girlfriend Tabby come in and they're like, what the fuck are you doing here? And we get the real story of what happened between Yeahs and Jules. He was actually the one to break up. He was actually the one to break up with her because she was a mess and like, yeah, that was.
Nasty work, that was good, that was so good, well done, I try my best.
He breaks up with her because she's a mess and like she didn't have the guts to pursue her artistic dreams and she was just generally a messy person. Dom and Yes eventually leave Jules's place with the record, but Dom confronts her about lying to him, especially because he had been so honest with her, and he's like, you set a very bad precedent by lying to me from the very jump. And she does not handle this criticism
well and he doesn't trust her now. So they part ways this time, you know, not to reconvene anytime soon. They wallow in sadness separately for a while. Some time passes and they start to carry on with their lives.
I mean, certain rom come troupes must happen, no matter.
Yeah, you have to have that montage, you have to have like yearning. But I'm not going to say anything because I'm rightfully mad at you. But the other one doesn't know how to like swallow their pride.
And they're like, I'm over it, I swear. Yeah.
And the fact that they set this in and I do like that because it's like earlier, it's kind of left as this hanging question of like, is yeahs going to keep pursuing this career. It seems like she's really on the fence about it, and that, as we later learn, it's like part of her own insecurity that she doesn't feel comfortable really throwing herself into it all the way.
And so having that time of part sometimes is necessary because it's so easy to get pulled into a relationship and be like I have love, I don't need personal satisfay. It's just never true. Never to hear that today, it's never true. Yeah, you need both.
So they start to carry on with their lives. They're going on dates with other people. Yeah, this has an interview for a costume designer job that she actually goes on this time and gets the job the Alien movie.
Yeah, so British for them to keep calm and carry on classic that.
I also love that there's a scene where like Yaz is talking to the director and their conversation is like mapped on. It's like very meta because the director is like, this is the big climax of the movie, so there needs to be this big grand moment, and it's basically just like narrating what Yaz needs to do in the movie that we're watching. It's really fun.
I loved and it's like this again, like toes the line so effortlessly where I think that there's a way to do that scene that has that's like, here's my rom com. It has nothing but antipathy for any other rom com. But even when this movie is subverting the rom com, it still feels like it comes with like a genuine affection for the genre, and it's just like building on it versus being like.
This fucking sucks. Like it's just like it's sweet and funny. It's not antagonistic.
I don't know, and I had no at this point too. I know we're gonna first talk about with the movie like how it happens, but I kinda didn't know. I did think it was gonna be very love Jonesy right where it's like they weren't gonna.
Write maybe get but it was cool.
I was gonna be fine with that because it was very much like you could see how they still affected and touched each other's lives as they were moving on, Like she was starting to go on these interviews, she was being more self assured about herself. She was being honest with herself and then him when he was like, I gotta get out of this house, Like I gotta get back out there. I am a dope person, and her sort of like extrovertness sort of tapped into him
and then vice versa. It was just so if it didn't go the way of a normal rom com of being like happily ever after, I'd have been cool with that, like honestly, yeah, yeah.
Because it's still satisfying to watch them, like having affected each other in positive ways.
Yeah because either way. Yeah, like their lives are better for having known each other. And then the super sentimental part of yourself is like they are adapt Yes, how does it ends? It end? I want to talk about how it ends.
It's so cute. I love that I tell us, tell us, Okay, so, uh, she's gotten this job. She also realizes that she misses dom and that she has feelings for him and that maybe she should do some grand gesture to try to win him back, because they had discussed previously that he was always the one doing grand gestures in his relationship that were met with like.
Just like made me tear up. Is like, if you're the grand gesture person in a relationship, it is so satisfying to see someone.
Do that for the other person. It's just so sweet. I'm like almost crying now.
It's so nice and that's so true, the fact that she's and actually like I did cry and I'm not a crowder girl, but the first time I was like, oh my god, because you're right like watching that, it's there were so many layers of satisfaction for the viewer, being like, if you're this person and you are usually doing all this, but guess what you're about to see it happen like for you essentially, and also fuck his ex on a whole other level, because if you've rent
out a chicken shop that we had our first date out and all of and I'm sitting there like this is so.
Like gets again British mode.
They had a chicken shop date up like the famous series, and she was like, this does nothing for me, I'm like this, this is British cannon.
Come on it wait because it was their anniversary and he rented it out.
Yeah, how could you not? If you don't melt into a pile of goo, grow a heart.
It's like, are you kidding? I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. She's a grinch. It reminded me a quick story of my dad and my mom. My mom and dad, one of their first dates were I like a Big Boy, And this is like early seventies, and they went to Big Boy and she would always get she got extra food, like because she had like six brothers and sisters or whatever. And the only way that she could go out with him is if he brought food back home for anyway.
I remember years later my parents just celebrated their forty six year or something like that, but this was like maybe fifteen years ago. My dad was like, make sure your mom has a really nice dress, a really pretty outfit, make sure she can get her hair done, all this stuff like that. He didn't tell her where she's going. He didn't tell me where he's going. Why did he make her? And they both got really glammed up. He took her to the Big Boy Boy, the one that
they went. I was like, everybody, shut up. I honestly think my mom was half and half. She was half like this is very romantic, and the other half was like, are you kidding. Yeah.
It was like maybe when you get older you're like, yeah, hey, I've been here.
But it's just like, so it was so cute, and I couldn't believe that his girl ex was like just it just showed how much she wasn't for him.
She's like, I filled in my eyebrows.
For this and it wasn't even that good. That's a lie. Her eyebrow sifting cradle.
I'm sorry, she's gorgeous. It's yeah, I don't know.
I yeah, my fiancey proposed to be like we basically went on our first date again. We went on the same walk we went on on our first date, and yeah, I was sobbing the whole time because I knew it was going to happen because I basically planned it, but I hadn't planned it being our first date again.
I was like, so nice. It was like we were literally we walked. We went on a two mile walk, but it was really like, it's it's the sentimental.
But that's a sign that she's not really in love if she's not like that part moved by that, because you should be if you're really in love.
Yeah. Anyways, anyways, okay, so this is called the movie ends. She's like, I'm going to do a big grand gesture to win Dom back.
Yes she is.
Meanwhile, their mutual artist friend Nathan, who had the show at the beginning of the movie, now has another art show, this time about people's butts. It's like photography, but photography.
I I like that he comes back. I was not expecting that different.
Fun.
And so Dom goes to the art show, but yeahs is not there. But she does call him while she's on a nearby boat, which he waves at. So she sees him waving. She knows that he's the one because he waves at the boats. Yes, apologizes for lying to him. They you know, run that. She gets off the boat, he runs through the neighborhood. They reunite and they're like, ha, oh, how good to see you again. Should we hang out?
Kiss?
Kiss?
Kiss?
And that's the end of the movie.
And it's so romantic and perfect and I just can't and then I hit restart play again.
Yeah, so that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss and we're back.
All right, Where shall we start, Shelley? Where would you like to start? Because I'm all my notes on this movie are like, loved it.
Okay, I kind of want to start with the easter eggs of it all, but I guess it really wasn't an easter egg. I think it was such a perfect just like old to London and like rom Com films and South London in particular. But one thing that I really loved was like seeing people, yeah, like Colin Firth and all that. But I really, did you ever watched Absolutely Fabulous? The answer is likely yes, right.
I actually never yet?
Oh my gosh, yes, God sorry, so incredible, incredible series, A huge part of my like pop culture upbringing. The mom the one that talks more like that answers the door when they go to uh the ex's house to
get the key. She was a recurring person in Absolutely Fabulous, and when I saw that, I just was like again, like Leonardo DiCaprio moment, and not just because she was in this movie and that was super cool, but I really love when black artists put things and people in movies that only probably likely other black people will be like, oh my god, or as like a an Insecure did that a lot with like the people like who played
Easter Ray's mom like stuff like that. I just really love that because it felt like it was a really dope layer another a dope layer to blackness, which the whole film is a love letter to me. The whole film is an absolute love letter to blackness and black love. And I hadn't seen anything like it in a long time, with maybe the exception of maybe the exception of the photograph like but again, I'm just Eastern ray hand forever,
so that could be it. But yeah, I guess that's the main thing I wanted to start off with was just that. And I think a lot of people make films that say they're like an ode to this or oh to that, and you watch it and you really don't feel that connected to it, or you feel like it missed you, or it feels a little bit like maybe to them it's a very personal ode to whatever, and they think it's going to be this blanket everyone's going to get it, but this one am I'm not British,
like I am black, but I am right crazy. I'm not like, I'm not from South London. I don't have any like West Indian heritage and stuff like that. But I got so much of the film even though I'm this black girl from Detroit at Sundance watching it right and it just felt so deeply well done, especially with it being like a black rom com. I would definitely this is a rom com for everyone. Yeah, but it is a black rom com with to me, one of the most important parts of it that both leads are
dark skin. They are not racially ambiguous. They don't have like a curl pattern that you can't discern, like both leads are tark skin, black British people, and it's so beautiful to see it on film. So that's where I wanted to stay.
But yeah, and the director speaks to this. I read an interview with her rain Allen Miller in Elle magazine as this movie was coming out, and she speaks a lot about changes she made to the script, where, for example, the original draft had the movie set in Camden, which and if I'm remembering correctly, oh gosh, London listeners correct me if I'm wrong, But it's a different area of London.
I think it's like a kind of predominantly white area that is known for its like kind of like artsy hipstery vibes, but like very different vibes from the neighborhoods we end up seeing in the movie. So basically she got a hold of the script, it was sent to her.
She was like approached to direct this. It's her feature film directorial debut, and she was originally like, well, I'd love for my first feature to be something that I wrote, but this script was so funny and I fell in love with it, so she agreed to direct, but she made some changes to the script. Here's a quote from her. She says, I had quite a lot of notes. I wanted the female lead to the funny one, and I
wanted the world to feel more elevated. So when I told stories, I wanted them to feel more dream like and surreal. And then she goes on to say I wanted the film to be a correct representation. The truth of it is, being a person of color is a hard experience, but there are also really good days, and this film is about one of those really good days. It's so important to represent our experience correctly and not
just show grit. We also goof out, We also get our hearts broken, eat Greg's on the bed and cry. We all have a three sixty experience of the world, and it's important that that's shown unquote. And then also one of the changes she made was that again story was originally set in Camden, that neighborhood of London, and then she changed it to Peckham and Brixton in South London. And then obviously the title of the film is named
after the real Lifelane Market and all the like. So basically, like I was thinking of movies set in London and what you usually see with that, it's mostly movies featuring white characters. They'll take place in these like posh, upper class neighborhoods, like we've talked a lot on the podcast about like the movie and TV version of New York City where only white people mysteriously live, and it feels like London is similarly represented that way in media, especially
if you're thinking about rom com set in London. You've got your things like Nodding Hill and Bridget Jones and Love Actually and Four Weddings and a Funeral, all of which star Hugh Grant.
Will say just watched the late as Bridget Jones very happy.
Oh, I haven't seen it yet. You liked it?
I loved it, But I have such a connection to that movie. But yes it was. I was happy. I was very happy.
I've been saving it for like a night room, like I need this.
Yes, okay, good.
But Ry Lane is one of the few movies at least that I've seen that's set in London that doesn't center white characters, that shows pockets of the city that are multicultural, that are racially and ethnically and socioeconomically diverse. A few other ones I could think of were things like Bend It, like Beckham, Attack the Block, polite society, but so much of like how London is represented in media is like very like, look at these rich white people. Sometimes we're in the eighteen hundreds.
Well, because I think that that view of England, at least, it seems still like fairly pushed in the US of thinking of England as this white posh exclusively place, whereas like all of the media I encountered about England growing up would not have reflected any of the diversity that you see when you go there, or any of the class diversity that you see outside of like Oliver Twist, like all of the any class diversity you got, you have to go back one hundred and fifty years, and
any racial diversity is like basically not there unless you have BBC, which we don't, and so it's just yeah, yeah.
And when you push it, when they push it now, So like my thing, first thing that came to my mind was Bridgerton, right, like, and they have like Queen Charlotte and stuff like that, there's always this debate level
of like did the blackness exist? And when we talk about going back to a different period and like that's such a time, right, and we think about like there's always a debate because even still Bridgerton is on, it's like a million season and every time it premieres, people constantly debate on if Queen Charlotte was like actually black, And it's just so the erasure of black Britain is just it's constant. And I was gonna it's so funny
that you bring that up about Attack the Block. That was gonna be my other when I was thinking about black film and it's not romantic, but when I'm thinking about like a film from the UK, that's just inherently black and brown. I definitely think of Attack the Block, and not a lot of people like talk about that movie, but it was so black.
It's good.
It's so good. It's one of the best like sci fi ish horsment I've seen in a long time. Sure, but I think about that and it shows like.
Wasn't that where like John boyego was discovered.
And that's where John boyoga And then it like him being in these sci fi ros is just constantly incredible because he was also great and Weaklon Tyroll just great. But then I think about something like Chewing Gum, right, and that's another sort of like. But then with that, it's like there's so many doll ups of whiteness in it because she is in an interracial relationship and all
this kind of stuff. But Attacked the Block and and Ry Lane are two black British films that I've seen where I've just been like, I didn't have to play like spot the black character, you know, and it was just it was awesome. And I know it's had. The Block takes place in like council housing and stuff, but that's either here nor there. It's just like another area of black Britain, which is really cool that in another cute movie. Sorry, Boxing Day, that's another black British rom com that.
Is so fucking good, just because every time you mentioned that, we write it down.
But Boxing Day is such an incredible black cast movie. That's a rom com.
Boxing Day is what like the day after.
Chris Days After, because it was like for the servants, that's essentially what it was for, Like they couldn't celebrate on Christmas because they were like working for the family, so they would get the next day. I think British listeners, please don't tell me if I'm wrong, actually find out. I want to know. Thanks.
Well, see, I.
Also just I read and I didn't cite it in my notes, but that rain Allen Miller had previously stated that she, you know, like like you were saying Caitlin, that she was hoping to that her first movie would be on something she'd written herself, but also that she was a little bit reticent towards rom comms in general.
And I feel like you can you can feel that in this movie in a good way, because she's like pushing the genre forward in a way that like I've never seen it before, and I'm so glad that someone who wasn't like a diehard rom com fan made a rom com because it it has all of the things that we love about roalm coms, but also is not being precious about the the tropes that we haven't needed for decades, including the whitewashedness, including the like visual uncreativity,
and it just all I just love it and rain Alan Miller not for nothing, Like I'm just so glad that I know about Eliah because she's so cool.
Yeah, and she's just really really cool.
She also I wanted to share another quote from this LL magazine interview with her about the environment that she cultivated on set. Here's just a quote from this piece. When it comes to creating an environment on set, Alan Miller cites a grounded and relatable approach is best now quoting her, it should be fun, you know, it shouldn't be hell, because even though it's important to work, it's
not life or death. Prioritizing people and making sure the crew and cast could go home, see their families and live a healthy life was important to me, she explains, noting that she wanted people like the film's production designer, Anna, who was eight months pregnant during filming to feel comfortable, everyone needs to feel like their opinions matter, She continues, from the runners on set to the young actors leading
the film. To make sure they're all singing from the same hymn sheet doesn't mean that they can't have fun, explore and challenge.
So truly, imagine not being punished for egotistical reasons on a set.
That's really cool.
Right, because we've talked about so many productions that are directed by men almost always that it's like a dictatorship. The director is a tyrant. They're cruel, they're abusive to their cast and crew.
It's not what makes them great.
I was gonna say, but it's okay because it's creative and just what comes of it, Like Lollie, absolutely not.
I love.
I think that this was the thing that was pushed back a lot on at during the press cycle around everything everywhere all at once. That was another very like inclusive and thoughtfully crafted set where it's like, we don't want this to ruin anyone's life, we want this to.
Be a force of good. And what a concept.
I'm so glad that she has a similar because it's also just like showing respect to the people who were bringing the vision to life, like yeah, and you can really feel I forget if we talked about this earlier, but The Fish Islands was another nod to a British comedy with Peep Show, Yes, which is like one of my favorite shows ever.
It's so good. I just and that's all I'll say. But I love it so much.
It's just so clear that like Rain Allen Miller put a lot of herself into this movie in spite of the fact that she didn't write it. It was written by I believe, so Nathan Bryan is a British mixed race British actor, he's a white father, jamake a mother. I believe that Rain Allen Miller also has to ancestry. And Tom Malia is respectfully some white guy.
So I was hoping you were going to say that, Yeah.
I don't know, but yeah, it feels like, at the end of the day, with due respect to the writers, this is her movie, because you can just see every interview that I've seen with her seems to bear out that like this was her vision of what she wanted in a movie and didn't have. That also pays homage to movies in comedy that she really loves and like, what more could you want?
Totally the one small gripe I have with the movie, I'm so excited. There are what I might argue are two different surprise kisses. One in the karaoke scene where they've like just gotten off stage, and yes they are vibing, like the energy is there, but we don't know exactly in what capacity, Like is it they're feeling horny for each other or is it just the you know, the excitement from performing. Either way, yes, kind of springs a
kiss on Dom without really checking in with him. This does lead to them going into a bathroom and making out later, so you can presume that he's receptive to the kissing. But just like her kind of planting a kiss on him without being like, hey should we kiss that happens and then at the very end yeahes is like, hey, uh so should we go do something? And then he like kind of shuts her up by kissing her and she is receptive to it and they continue to make
out and it's cute. But like, I'm like, can we do a little bit more in movies and in real life to normalize checking in with people before we just sort of like facially attack them with our lips just a thought.
Yeah, I'm like, well, I like the movie, so I don't have that nuts.
But I see what you mean.
This is a very inclusive world that is still be But I think it has to do it. We had a simpler conversation around the Before trilogy where it is ultimately kind of a pretty straight movie. But I think that that has to do mostly with the kind of myopic nature of we're following a straight presumably straight couple.
We don't know for sure throughout the movie. I don't know.
I'm just like not inclined to knock this movie in any way, shape or form. So I'm like, it was canon, it was totally fine. And why didn't it have a theatrical release outside of the UK?
Fair question.
That's how I feel too like it. I do agree with like, we could do a lot more work around asking or not even making it such a thing where it's like, hello, fellow person who I would very much enjoy to put lips upon, May I kiss if thou you know?
No?
But I start saying that exactly that way, verbatim.
Exactly that way all the time. Text me after let me know what happened.
Actually, could you record a voice memo for me and then I'll just play that people.
You take it out and you go give me once listen to this. Thank you so much.
Hold on, sorry, I have to find it.
Hang on scrolling, she texts a lot. But I do agree. Yeah, there definitely should could be a lot more work around it. I think just in my head, to be honest, like as I was watching it, it didn't come to my mind, and not until just now where you just said it, to be honest, like, I think I was so wrapped
up within the rom com of it all. And then I think also why it didn't hit for me is because of the after was like yes they did go into the bathroom to make out, and then like yes they did, like the camera panned in a fucking circle and then it went up into the sky and I'm like, ah, that was perfect. Of course he could kiss it, so it wasn't something that was It wasn't something that was top of mi mba. I definitely do understand how we could put more conversation around doing so. Yeah.
I mean even in that first one at the karaoke bar when she kisses him, he is a little taken aback and he's like oh oh, and she's like oh sorry, and then he's like aha, wait and then he like kind of pulls her into the bathroom and then they make out. So like her kissing him sends the message to him that like she's down to kiss, and then he's like, okay, now let's go make out. So like the aftermath, like the results worked out just fine. But that's the thing with the surprise kiss. You don't know
what the aftermath is going to be. You don't know how receptive the person is going to be to the kiss unless you check in with them first. So I'm always just a proponent of being like heyd I okay if I kiss you, or to quote you, but I forget what you said and I pull up.
Hello person that I would like to le Hello, fellow person, sorry, hello, fellow person that I would like to put my lips upon. May if I kiss this thou thou wow?
So ever after of you.
I mean, don't make me go watch that movie tonight.
Why it's been on my mind recently, but it has. But nevertheless, no, I I I totally agree with you. I think I'm it's so funny because Shelley. Right before this, we recorded an episode that Caitlin was like going to the mat for.
And so it's like The.
Little Rascals is a genius film with great comedy.
It's okay.
I I can't wait to hear that episode because I have thought, I have thoughts. I have thoughts.
I have thought, Yeah it is it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, and we're safe. Did anyone else have anything else to say about this? I mean a big thing for me is I'm very happy that David Johnson's career has continued to grow. But if Vivian Opara doesn't become a movie star, it's curtains like she just like and he and again it's like David Johnson's put in the position like his character is very withheld. This is the only I've seen him in industry in this. I haven't
seen Alien Romulus, Like they're both so talented. But I was just blown away by Vivian Opara.
Like her performance and her part is something that could have been played poorly, where it could have been really obvious that like I'm not the confident girl that I say I am, but she just pleays it so well. I just like I really love her. I can't wait to see her and more.
He was in and I had to look it up because I don't know how I came across this show. But it's called Dead Hot and okay, there's another guy in it name blal has No. I apologize if I pronounced his name wrong, but he's in a show called Extraordinary. Did you watch that on.
Hulu where I haven't seen it yet.
It's so good and I think it's getting another season, but at least it has two and in that show, Vivie on a part. Isn't that but they co star in the Dead Hot show and it's also another British like series and it's kind of a one offer, but it was last year, but it was really really good. And just for Black, he's incredible and extraordinary because that show. You can watch that show both seasons in like a day. I have many a time. But but yeah, Vivian Apar
is like a fucking star, like she's a star. And I don't know if she has any like more projects coming out, which I'm sure because I feel like that always happens. We say that and then boom, like oh if she hasn't anything, and then boom, like all of a sudden, you see something where.
She's we listened to this in two years in really yeah, not to.
Worry, but I actually have never I think I've seen like one episode of Industry, but I knew that that was him because my my fiance also I am fiance. It's my fiance watches that show, so I didn't really know his word. But I think he's incredible in this. But yes, she's she's a star. Yeah, she's definitely a star for sure.
I mean, it's just so refreshing to not just see two dark skinned black actors starring in a romcom, but just like two actors with such amazing chemistry.
Chemistry was.
A relief to not see casting by algorithm, which I think we've seen so many times in the last handful of years. It's just nice to feel like, and hopefully you know, in many movies to come, when you see a rain Allen Miller movie, she actually cares. If you believe that these actors are attracted to each other, you know, it's just great.
And even the other couples within the movie too, right, Like I feel like they all had chemistry. Like I also believe that Dom's character like they could be friends. That of course that's his best friend, right, Like, oh yeah, it just is like because they went they had been going to school since like elementary sorry primary comary school. Apologies, Yeah, but they But I believed that friendship too, And I also believe the coupling of that artist and his girlfriend.
And I definitely believe that a coupling of her ex and his new girlfriend. The only one I didn't believe was the best friend in Dom's X because what, that's crazy.
She must be in a really dark place, A dark place.
Yeah, that is like a scary Yeah I was, she was an asshole, but I was also like, and I know I was projecting, but like I'm a little worried about her, because if you're leaving your sweetheart, you know, like long, even if you've fallen out of love over time, this is not the guy you jumped to.
He's an idiot. But he also played dumb so well because I watched a lot of the interviews, Like after I saw this movie, I couldn't get enough. You ever watch a movie, You're like, I need more content, I need behind the scenes. So anything that came out on YouTube, I'm watching interviews I'm watching like where they make them play the little silly games on like Instagram. I'm like, yeah, that's that's so funny. But he's so funny. He's so funny. They she created this world that I believed and it
was this close. I think for most of the runtime to be my favorite little mini genre, which is movies that take place on one day. So I think for most of the runtime it is like the same.
Day until the last like fifteen minutes.
Yeah, it counts. It was before coded to me like people falling in love over the course of.
A day, Like you're reading three movies like on a walk, which is what when you said that Jamie about like being on a walk, right, and you're just falling in love on this walk.
I also I connected with that too because I just like to remember my second day with my fiance. It was very much we went on a fucking walk, like and we ended up at like a restaurant and then like all this stuff. But to see that be on film but for black people, the Harry met Sally of it all, like the Nodding Hill, all of it just like this beautiful, awesome setting. Because I know when we
think of Harry met Sally. We think of the park and the leaves changing and all of this, But now there's this film out there where instead of like inserting myself into it and being like, oh, this could happen for me, because I used to put myself in Harry met Sally like all the time, right, I'm like, this could be me or whatever. But you can only do that for so long when you don't see it on film. That's why I always go back to Love Jones another
walking and Falling in Love like film. But then I saw it in ry Lane and you're just like, they're just hanging out and they don't know they're falling in love, but the viewer does, and it's just really dope to see it play out. And I think it was just like it was played out perfectly. And then the trope of like she's extroverted, he's a little introverted. It can be so lame, but it worked again here too, because I believed in their chemistry so.
And I love that the truth of how they portrayed themselves ended up falling somewhere in between where she wasn't as extroverted as she wanted to project herself to this guy that she didn't think she was ever gonna see again, and just all of these things that like, I don't know, I just yeah, it's so exciting to see these like.
Micro dynamics that you have either witnessed.
Or experience in a rom com where basically there is no there's nothing, there's only things that you are used to like aspiring to experience. So yeah, it passes the back to test, does it not?
I didn't know because I yeah, please, I was concerned. I didn't know if it did.
Actually, I think maybe it does between yees.
Such as you would want it to.
But it yeah, okay, between yeaes and Jules's moms, yes, although they do kind of talk about Dom most of their conversation. And then Yes also talks to her best friend Cass. She talks to like the people on the set of the movie she's working on. Those are very like tertiary characters. I don't think we learned their names, so you can debate on whether or not those exchanges count.
The thing about a movie like this where it's so hyper focused on a hetero relationship, so it's like a man and a woman talking, and like the Before trilogy, they will encounter people along the way, but it's really
focused on them. I do appreciate like the encounters they have along the way being with I mean, you get queer visibility with like the two moms with Mona, who I was trying to figure out if that was intended to be a non binary character because they use they them pronouns to refer to Mona.
Not totally sure, and if so, it's again just like effortless in a way that if this was a real world, you wouldn't have to like stop and be like, hey, everybody are real familiar with non binary identity. I will
say I noticed that. And what sent me over the edge is the Bechdel Test Fest, which is based in London, where and we've never been invited to kind of interesting, insane, but that they were heavily promoting how much they love ry Lane and they do not promote movies that don't pass the Backtal test, at least in passing.
I don't think that it passes a lot, but I do think that a couple a couple of times it does.
Yeah, if we're not counted, because that was gonna be my thing about counting the cast on set or everybody on set, because she's talking to people in wardrobe and then the direct you know what I mean, Like, whenever she's in conversation, it's always about her and him. But yeah, I oh, wait, doesn't she It's not that it doesn't. I was gonna say the lady that she compliments in the store, but that is too short of an interaction.
Yeah, she's just like cool outfit stranger basically.
Yeah.
Yeah, So I think it's a little up for debate because a lot of the conversations she does have with women.
Technically it does, but it doesn't pass.
A lot a lot, right, Yeah, But I'm also like, spiritually to me, and again this is maybe me just being defensive, Like, spiritually to me, it does pass well.
The other thing too about it is and you know, we always talk about how the Bechdel test is just a jumping off point, like it's not the end all be all of Like is this movie feminist?
It was written as a joke, and it wouldn't.
If more movies did handily pass, this wouldn't even need to be a conversation that we have at all. But like in an ideal world where there was far more inclusivity in movies and that more movies did have women and you know, people of marginalized genders interacting with each other, it would be okay for a movie to not handily pass as long as it was you know, like doing other things for representation purposes, which this movie for sure does.
And I think it matters of like who's behind the camera, because I think a lot of times that we gripe about the mental test, it's because we're trying to be like, we like this movie, but behind the scenes it's unequivocally all white men for the most part, and that is just the case.
Here.
We have black cinematographer Olin Collardi. We have one woman producer, Ivonne is Amazato. We have a woman who edited it, which is very rare, Victoria Boydell, who has edited.
Oh.
People like the movie twelve Monkeys, right, I haven't seen it.
Yes, it's one of my favorites, right, yeah, Brad Pitt and Bruce Okay.
The only reason I know about sorry about twelve Monkeys is because of can't Harley Waite when she there, somebody references it in can't Harley Waite.
I have not seen it, but she is a longtime British editor, So I just feel like this movie walks the walk in front of and behind the camera, and I'm not inclined to be like, well they're because sure, yes, there could have been more interactions between women. I think that we should never pooh pooh that as something that should happen more.
But it just really does feel. And there's also so original music from.
I haven't heard of him before, but Quays a black British musician who has worked with all of these famous musicians.
And I believe this was his first score.
Like, you can just feel that this movie is coming from a genuine and thoughtful place, and behind the camera is just as diverse, and so for sure it passes the factual test.
Yeah.
I definitely b with that too, about the behind the camera, and then like just how she is in her interviews as well, the director, like Ryan is very just Yeah, so I vibe with that too.
As far as our nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I think this movie does so much and even though it is centering a hetero relationship, that doesn't mean it's bad that those do happen in the world sometimes and the idea
is how are they portrayed and framed? And this movie, I think does a spectacular job where the characters are very very relatable, and their problems are relatable, and their personalities are magnetic, and the little love story journey they go on feels very grounded. And I think I'll give it like four point seven five nipples. I'm gonna dock it for the surprise uses that you could argue are present, but other than that, I really can't find anything else
to nitpick about this movie. So yeah, it's gonna be very high marks for me. And I'll give my nipples to the two leads as well as the director, rain Allen Miller, and I'll set aside my point seven five nipples for the two moms, and then I'll give the final full nipple. I don't know if I'm doing this math right at all, but I.
Think you just want to give it five nipples and that way you have more. No.
I feel very strongly about the kissing.
Yeah, give it away though, because I have to pee.
Oh my gosh. Okay, I'll give it to the to Rye Lane market.
Oh, I'm giving you five nipples. I totally hear your criticism, and I am and this is problematic of me, but I am giving it a pass on vibes. I loved
this movie. I was like, I don't know, it is so nice going into it, because we've watched hundreds and hundreds of movies for this show, and there I can count on probably two hands when the times that I've gone in to watch a movie for this show, and it has been clear to me very quickly that like, unless something wild happens, this is going to become a movie that is like with me for the rest of my life. And this was like that rare experience. I
was so happy. I'm giving it five nipples selfishly, but also because I think it deserves it. I wish that there were more movies like this, and I am actively upset and have my suspicions as to like, why do we not have wider releases of black rom coms internationally? I think that that is a very pointed thing, because there is no reason this should not have gotten a wide release internationally.
It's so is so.
Many like Country Miles better than rom coms we've gotten released internationally in the last several years. It's just like if you haven't seen it, go see it. Five nipples, distributing them equally between ray Now Miller and Vivian Opara, my two parasocial friends.
Beautiful Shelly, how about you.
I'm surprisingly giving it five nipples.
WHOA.
I know, I'm so sorry to shock everybody. I apologize. I know I've been talking so much shit like for the past three hours. Five nipples of course, because I think, well, four nipples to just like the movie in itself and the cast and Vivian and all of them. But the main nipple, the one nipple, also goes to just how connected I am to this film. I feel like this film was a part of a very personal experience for me.
It was my first sun Dance. I had been invited on my own merits, like I write about film and pop culture, and I got asked to come to this huge fucking thing that like, honestly, a lot of like marginalized culture writers, black culture writers specifically don't get invited to. And I got invited to this place and I saw this movie that made me feel like my whole sort of experience of writing and film kind of just came
all together. And then I learned who was behind the camera, and then I got a chance to show it to another like a group of just black people who were who enjoyed it that night. Is just so close to me. It's a rom com story and I love love, love, love, love love. So it's like another big part of it is that I didn't have to pretend to see myself on the screen, and that mattered a lot to me because it's twenty twenty five and I oftentimes still have to do that. So Yeah, five nipples across the board.
Yeah, Amazon, oh Shelly, thank you from the bottom of our hearts for bringing us this wonderful movie to us and the listeners if they haven't seen it, thank you so much.
Of course, thank you for having me. I'm loving this is that being here? This is my favorite. Oh wait, can I give Can I say something, Jamie? I heard you, Mama, I heard you on here to help pod? Okay, Oh my god, let me tell you something. I listened to very few podcasts nowadays, just because like I feel like at one point I was listening to so many. You've narrowed it down to like five, of course, one of which the beca c is a part of. But I was listening and then I said, I know that voice
because I was I was watching. I was like, and that is like one of my favorite podcasts in the fucking world. So and you killed it, and I just was so excited for you. I know both of you are doing such big, cool things, but it's so cool when people I know I get to hear them on something and I just am so happy for you. And you just killed it. It was funny, it was great.
I was really nervous. I'm glad you.
I'm glad you liked it because I was, like.
It was it was awesome. You held you definitely held your own for sure. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you als for having me.
Thank you. It's all our treat.
It's our treat.
Truly come back anytime. To talk about Boxing day.
I was gonna say, for a boxing day, yes please. That movie is so cute and there's gonna be a second one. I hear, I don't know, but it's so cute. It's so so so cute. It's really cute.
An extremely boxing day.
I was going to say, an extremely boxing day.
Very extremely boxing day.
I do kind of like this vibe that you are foreshadowing your next episode in every previous appearance.
It makes sense.
If I can find like a black queer summer movie that I love that, I'm just gonna send the email and be like, hello, everyone looks like I'm coming back in jeer.
Okay, please do please do amazing.
Where can people find your writing, your work? Follow you on social media, et cetera.
Tell us everything, So Hi Shelley dot com h I s h E l L. I will get you to everywhere I am, which is main just Instagram, where I'm Ao Shelley like a yo s h o I. And then I'm on Letterbox at high Shelley Hi saht o I. Those are the only two that I use. But yeah, because I'm not on X, I guess I'm on Threads
because I also already have Instagram. But it's the same, right, But yeah, you can find all my stuff there, including links to my substack, which I just getting back into and but yeah, I love it, So subscribe to my substack because I'm fun and I'm awesome and I'm very pretty.
It's so true.
I just followed you on letterbox and what is number one on your favorite films? But Riley exactly walking the walk as far walking the walk.
Okay, I am being I'm for real about this shit.
Well, this rocks.
Please come back anytime and please yay. You can follow us on social media. We have a letterbox too, which we never plug. We also never plug our link tree, which is relevant because we if we have upcoming shows. Our patreon is linked there, our letterbox is linked there, et cetera. So yeah, link tree, slash Bechtel Cast, Instagram, and our patreon, our Matreon where you get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access to the back catalog
of episodes. Currently, we're in the middle of Rodent Timber aka. We're covering Ratitui and the Great Mouse Detective.
Try not to panic.
I was wondering what the other one. I knew.
There was a heated battle between There's so many roady movies I have so bad.
You can get our merch at republic dot com slash b Bechdel Cast and with that buy something or don't I have to pee?
Yes?
Okay, bye, love you bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of Iheartmeat hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Moe La boord Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Volskrosenski. Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechtelcast