Real Women Have Curves (with new intro!) with Mala Muñoz

On the Bechdel Cast.

The questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zephyn Beast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

Hello Bechdel Cast listeners, Jamie and Caitlin. Here we are re releasing one of our favorite episodes this week that we recorded what two years.

Ago or so that sounds possible.

About the classic Real Women Have Curves directed by Pittric Shikurdo So, written by and based on the play by Hosafina Lopez. So the reason we're doing this may be evident. But if you are international or live in a cave, this is a movie that is about East Los Angeles.

Yes, and Karen is a Karen is a Karen is a Karen.

I mean, Los Angeles has always been a city of immigrants, it has always been a city of unions, and I think the dual threat has really caused the city to come together in this amazing way. But there is still so so so much going on across the country, but particularly in LA is where this all sort of kicked

Yeah, this movie is about a family that could very likely be torn apart by the types of raids that are happening right now, and that, to be clear, have been happening.

Yes, this happens all the time.

There is an escalation of it right now, but you know, during the Biden and Obama administrations, lest we forget there were raids like this happening.

Absolutely, and you know, if you're a listener in the US and you went to a No King's protest this past weekend, good on you.

But we also wanted to talk about, you know, something we've talked about over.

The years of if you are feeling helpless and how the privilege to be able to do more, please do more. We're gonna link some resources in the description of places.

To donate, and also, I think.

Like a critical part that we've talked about before is finding your mutual aid practice to support vulnerable communities, so we'll add in we'll add some links for that as well.

We'll add those to our link tree too.

Absolutely, and just so you know that we're keeping ourselves accountable, we are also going to be making a donation to and I'll.

Include more information about this.

But in case this is actionable in your community, LA, there's a ton of incredible street vendors here who are from immigrant families or immigrants themselves, and there are a bunch of mutual aid efforts going on in our community to basically pay these employees to stay home so that they can stay safe from this horrific escalation of ICE as they continue to occupy our city. So if they're

With the world.

It is the very least we can do, and that we're staying engaged as well. To all of our listeners who are immigrants or have family who are immigrants, we stand with you. We will do anything and everything we're able to.

To continue to do.

So The Buchtal Cast is an inclusive show. It is for fucking everybody and well. I also wanted to mention that hosts Pheno Lopez, who wrote this show, has also been doing a lot to draw attention to actions and notifying where ICE has been showing up, because that's also a lot of community work we'll link in the description, but know how to identify an ice vehicle and know where to call if you identify an ice vehicle, so people can be notified as quickly as possible.

Other ways to get involved and stay engaged and support your communities, you can distribute Know your Rights cards red cards, which include information about the rights that immigrants and that people in general have, and distributing those two your neighbors, your community so that people can be as informed as possible.

And that's another thing as well, where I think that there's all of these popular narratives that people who aren't citizens don't have rights. That's not true. There's this thing called human rights that still exist. It's just like drives me fucking wild. If you are able to get cards, they're also more and more widely available. I think that they're available at most public libraries if you are looking to acquire some.

I also think.

That a community that has sort of been left behind in this discussion are the unhoused. There is a tremendous amount of overlap between the undocumented immigrant community and the unhoused community, particularly here in LA but also everywhere. We will be linking a number of resources in the description we are still.

Learning as well or not you know, coming on here to be like.

Fuck, you do better. We're all doing our best, but just we're asking our listeners who have the privilege to do so as we do, to stay involved, staying for and really show up for your community in ways that might not always be comfortable.

Yeah, a couple talking points I wanted to touch on as well, kind of emphasize a talking point that there are some people who are like, yeah, we shouldn't detain or deport immigrants because of their contributions to the workforce, like they grow our food.

Right, This hasnt been and this is something that like politicians who have been speaking out against ice raids have used as their justification and it's such horseshit. Way, I wanted to actually quote my friend Albert, who's terrific Los Angeles organizer and a huge Bright Eyes fan, and these are wow, two of the many reasons that I and he was actually that our most recent factal Cash show

It's people.

It's people being kidnapped from the like, from their homes and from the streets. That is what matters. It's a kill the cop in your head moment.

Do not define people by their labor.

Absolutely. Another thing is people are also talking about how this is connected to Palestine, and people are like, but why, but how that's happening over there. There's a direct correlation in the sense that law enforcement in the US are trained in the fake state of Israel. They learn tactics.

Yea, the idea of colludes with American policing systems constantly.

Constantly, and then just the larger context of all of this is happening because of white supremacy, pro imperialism, pro settler colonialism, like it's it's all connected. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it.

Is, well there, I mean, yes, the intersections are infinite. I mean there's yes. Also will also link in the description. There's an episode of We the En House that just came out on Tuesday. That also speaks to the way that these communities and these atrocities intersect. And yeah, check out the links in our description. Get involved in your community specifically, you are needed, and stay safe. We love you, We love you, and enjoy this episode about real women have curbscast.

Jamie, it's so hot in here. Can you please turn the fan on in this recording studio?

Well, it gets, it gets the podcast. Dusty can't can't turn on the fan? The podcast will be covered. Does it'll be a catastrophe for us?

Sorry, well fine, I'll just take off all my clothes then, all.

Right, that's not my business. I guess I'll do the same. Oh, the same.

Yeah, that sounds great. Actually, the only.

Person that's gonna piss off is Mommy.

Mommy podcast. Cool. Well, I'm glad we sorted that out.

Yeah, that idea that resolved very cleanly.

Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Derante.

My name is Jamie Laftus, and this is our podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion.

Which of course, is a media metric created by Creeer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, whereby two people of a marginalized gender have to have names, they have to speak to each other, and their conversation has to be about something other than a man, and ideally for our sake, it is a meaningful, substantial conversation and not just like a hay.

Keep this going, this feels this sounds good, this feels good.

How's your soup? And then the other person says.

I'm not listening to you.

Go away, and then the first character disappears forever and they're like, wait, my name is Crystal as they're leaving.

But it's too late. We didn't hear it on screen.

That's an example of something that is great writing, but not great to pass it. Look anyways, it's a flawed metric because that was an amazing scene we just did.

I'm going to base an entire screenplay around it. Yeah, it's called it's gonna be called a soup, an extremely soupy movie, an.

Extreme No, no, it's not. And I can't engage with this joke any further. I can I draw a line.

Look, look, in the.

Case of today's episode, Uh huh Bechdel test, not a problem.

Let's just say that right now, No problem at all. Yeah, yes, and so I said, let's get to it.

Let's get our incredible returning Bechdel cast guest into the room.

Let's get her in the mix.

We simply must. She's a comedian, podcaster, creator and host of Mere Juanera, a podcast for potheads, and do you remember her from our episode on Selena. It's Mala munnos.

Hey everyone, thank you for having me. It feels great to be back. It's our pleasure and it is also mine.

We've brought you back. In one thousand degree heat, it's.

You know what, There's literally nothing else I would rather be doing than podcasting about this film in a heat wave. It's apt it makes sense. Yeah, I feel like I'm in the movie.

It's true.

We were joking about how by the end of the episode we will all be taking our clothes off, hopefully because of the heat.

Look, pr Nightmare. Maybe will hr get involved?

Maybe possibly? Am I open to it? Yes?

Yes, so fucking hot today it is one hundred or like ninety seven degrees in where I'm at in La right now.

Unpleasant, but you know it's not unpleasant.

The movie, Oh my god, very fun watch, very enjoyable.

Real women have curves, Molla. What's your relationship, your history with this film?

You know, I feel like my relationship with the film starts with my relationship with America Ferrera because she was like a Disney Channel darling. She was in Gotta Kick It Up about the Latina Dance Team, and that's where, like I was born in ninety two, that's where I was first introduced to America Ferrera. So when Real Women Have Curves came out, it was like, oh, this is a recognizable actress who we love and she had this

Diet nicely, So did you see Real Women have Curves? Like right when it came out, you.

Know, so two thousand and two. I don't remember where I was or where I saw it. I just remember that, like it was like this standout movie to me because of Loop Anti Vettos is in it, George Lopez is in it, America Frere is in it, and there are others throughout the film who are iconic actors and actresses. But I remember thinking like, oh my god, like this little movie is like has all these recognizable faces that I've seen in all these other projects, like you know,

What a great cast and like really amazing performances across the board.

And learning about the I mean, we'll get into it, but like learning about the production history of this movie is like very frustrating and very fascinating, and I just like can't wait to.

Get into it.

Truly agreed, Jamie, what is your relationship with this movie?

I had kind of a similar journey. I every d com that came out was my favorite movie, and so gotta kick it up was I feel like a significant one that was like kind of in like the upper pantheon of D coms.

I really, really loved it.

That was definitely how I, even though I think that technically real women have curves was made before Gotta Kick It Up, definitely learned about America for and like fell in love with her through Gotta Kick It Up. And I don't remember, I know I saw real women have

America Ferrera, right.

But I definitely saw it when I was in like either late middle school early high school.

Really really loved it.

Have revisited it a couple times over the years, but I hadn't seen it in a really long time, and definitely not since I had moved to La And so it was like such a delight to like revisit I really love this movie, and yeah, getting to learn more about the film and kind of the the at it, Like I feel like this is such a cool example of like adapting something into a movie well, which is so often done badly or sloppily or lazily or whatever, but like, this is just like a beautiful adaptation.

And I'm so excited to talk about it. Yeah, Caitlin, what's your history with real Woman? Have curve?

I saw this movie in high school because I came out in two thousand and two. I think I would have seen it in like two thousand and three or four when I was about honest character's.

Age in the movie.

Ye.

Yeah, because I think, if my memory serves me correctly, my mom had heard about this movie and was like, I heard it's really good. Roger Eber gave it three and a half stars. Let's watch it. Let's rent it from the video store.

The Ultimate yard Stick. This is a very like I feel like I probably watched this with my mom. It's a very mother like. There's not a lot of mother daughter movie. Yeah, I mean, and the relationship we'll get there.

But and it would have required someone we had to have the DVD of this film to watch it, So I feel like I went to Blockbuster or someone recommended it. And because I don't remember seeing it in the movie theaters or on TV, like, I feel like it was a DVD situation.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's my recollection as well. Gosh, like yeah, like that the later Blockbuster years.

What a beautiful what a beautiful.

Time in It's Twilight.

Does anyone remember the last DVD they got from Blockbuster?

Wow? I feel like that's a fun question.

My hometown was so small that we didn't even have a Blockbuster Wow. We had to go to just like the local video rental store, which I don't even remember what it was called now, it might have just been called like video.

Store, the video store.

Amazing anyway, So yeah, I saw it in high school as a teenager, and I haven't watched it since then, I don't think. But there were two scenes in particular that are just like seered into my memory. You know when you watch a movie that you and then you don't see it for years, but there are just like little moments that you will never forget and then have just been like logged into your memory bank forever. The

The other scene that I did not remember her mom being like you lost your virginity and being right. I was like, Oh, I'm glad. I'm kind of glad.

That didn't stick with me. I was like, oh, how did she know that?

Yeah, but I think it was seared into my memory because I was so afraid that that would happen to me with my.

Oh right, like you can tell, like I do I look different? And in that scene too, she opens with like she uses such strong language with Anna, like throughout the movie. One of the things that like really sticks out to me is like the vocabulary that Garman that Anna's mother uses, so like immediately in that scene, she's like, you tramp, and then she tells her like not only are you fat, you're a buta you know, very hard language that just really punctuates like every aspect of the scene.

Yeah, totally.

One of the scenes that stuck with me the hardest on this viewing was the scene where it's like on his first day working at the factory and her mom is body shaming her, and then the second another person enters the room, she's all of a sudden nice, And you're like, oh, no, I know that dynamic, Like that's so that I don't know how many times I've seen that like on screen, like depicted in a very straightforward way of like, well, yeah, like you know, I could

It's just yeah, Anna's mom has this way of just like raining on her parade, like at every possible moment, like even from the opening scene of them, because like that scene where she's like talking bad to Anna, Like Anna's like admiring a dress on one of the mannequins and she's just looking at it and how pretty it is, and her mother immediately comes in with you can't fit into that, like you're way too fat. There's no way there's enough fabric to cover you, Like, look at your

That scened like at the factory, like truly, I was like, oh my god, she was literally just standing there like it turned into an attack, like.

Oh, yeah, yeah, we will unpack that, yes relationship soon.

Yes, it's wild because she's so likable. She's so lovable the mom even when she's saying all these horrible things, like yeah, she's still kind of funny when she's saying them, and like the tension between the two of them is like, I don't know, there's something still endearing about her even as she infuriates you, you know right.

I feel like a lot of that is just like Lupe Antibo's performance as well, Like yeah, oh.

Man, across the board, Like every performance in this movie is so good and like layered and full of heart.

And I mean the fact that like America Frera.

Was fifteen when she started this movie, and like the whole range of like she's just so fucking talented.

It is such a good movie. I am sad. I like slept on it for all of those years in between, like when I first saw it and now your back, baby, I'm back baby. Shall I do the recap?

Let's do it?

Okay? So we meet Anna Garcia played by America Feria. She's a teenager who is about to finish high school in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it? We meet her family, her sister Estella played by Ingrid and I'm not sure how to pronounce her last name, Oliu, her dad Raoul played by Jorge Severa Junior, her grandfather her like Abulito, and then her mom, Carmen played by Lupe ante Veros, who Anna has a loving but difficult relationship with, as

Yeah, Boyle Heights.

But that's right, because that was like very based on the source material. This was adapted from a play I know. We'll talk about this but play by Josefina Lopez, who writes about boyle heads a ton like that is very much her background in her community and yeah.

Yep, but Anna takes several city buses to get to school in Beverly Hills. Her teacher, mister Gusman played by George Lopez, asks her about her college applications, but she says she's not going to college because her family cannot afford it. He reminds her that there are scholarships, grants, financial aid, but she's like, I don't know, not that she doesn't want to, it's just she knows it's gonna.

Be like an issue within the family, exactly.

Yeah, her family throws a little congrats on graduating high school celebration. We also see Anna quit her job at a fast food joint, which upsets her mom but.

Is a fun scene to watch her quinn. I loved watching her quin That was very fun.

And I actually think that the cashier is Josefina Lopez, the one who hands her.

Okay, she is in the movie as a character named Veronica, but I was like, who's Veronica. I couldn't remember exactly. That's so cool, all right, that's great.

And she killed it. She was so great In that one scene She's.

Keeping Anna's check in her bra and Anna's like, that's sick.

That.

Now I like that scene even more. I was just like where the character actor was was really funny. Yeah, holy shit, Oh that's great. And now that I'm like looking at her picture again, I'm like, oh, yeah, that totally was her.

That's her.

Yeah, amazing.

So Ana quits her job, which upsets her mom, who suggests she work at the clothing factory that her sister, Estella runs, something that neither Anna nor Estella really want. But Anna needs to learn, needs to earn money to help the family, and Estella is behind on her work orders,

Also, I think probably at the time, that would have been the first time I'd heard that issue discussed in a movie.

Like at all.

For sure. Yeah, there's an interesting class discussion around this movie, for sure. And then we meet the other women who work at the factory, such as Pancha, Norma, and Rosahli. Also on his mom Carmen body shames on us several times and tends to comment on most people's weight. Yeah, that's just kind of a habit of hers.

Well, yeah, because there is that scene where, I mean the scene we were just talking about where she is verbally abusive towards her daughter. Someone like her employees start to arrive and then she's nice to them, but then she also turns on her employees pretty quickly and starts criticizing them as well.

And you're like, oh, I guess this is just her personality.

Oh everybody gets it. Yeah, yeah, she gives it to everybody. Everyone gets a slice, you.

Get a polite hello, and then things take a turn.

Uh huh yep. So then Anna gives her filled out college applications to mister Gooseman, but he points out that she's missing a personal statement and that she needs to write one as soon as possible. Then Anna runs into her classmate Jimmy, who seems to like her. He's got a little crush, and he gives Anna his phone number. Back at the factory, Estella is struggling to keep up with the work order, especially after several of her workers

For all the shit that Anna has to put up with, I love that she's always very quick to be like enough, stop, no.

She advocates for herself exceptionally well yeah yeah, and I.

Love her for it, even in situations where you can tell like I don't know, or where it felt to me like you could tell.

She's like, I'm not gonna win this.

Battle, but I have to say this, like, hmm, you're not pregnant, mom.

So then Anna goes with Estella to speak to missus Glass, who is the owner of the dress manufacturing company to ask for an advance so they can pay the bills and keep the lights running at the factory, but missus Glass still denies them in advance. So then Anna goes to her dad for a loan. Meanwhile, Anna goes out on a date with that kid, Jimmy. They have a nice time.

He's got big, that kid Jimmy energy too.

Like I was like, who is this Elijah Wood? Ass looking kid?

Yeah, Elijah Wood wasn't available, slash, he's too old, too old, this kid, that kid Jimmy. He was only in movies for a couple of years and then he who knows, he tapped out and he's done.

Yeah. I liked his character though, you know, he said some things that made me gough, but overall agree with that. He seemed like a sweet kid.

He's he's very like her first nice white boyfriend. You know. It's it's an experience, it's a type. It's oh I had a nice white boyfriend like back home, like and that's him right right.

Yeah, So she goes out with Jimmy. Anna then turns in her personal statement to mister Gooseman. We see another day at work. It's hard, it's hot. Anna admires the dresses she steams at the factory and is sad to remember that they're not for her. But then Estella surprises Anna with a dress that she made especially for Anna in a very sweet moment part.

And it is a beautiful dress too, mm hmmm.

And I always wish there was like a dress reveal moment, like an occasion for her wear that dress.

I was like, is there a cut scene because it felt like Chekhov's dress?

Exactly where is the dress? Where's she wearing it?

Yeah?

I hope she wore it at like some I don't know, some New York event.

Yeah. She goes to a.

Mixer at Columbia.

Yeah.

Yeah, She's like, I just wore a gown to orientation?

Is that normal? Can you do that?

Then mister Guzmand stops by to let Anna know that she's been accepted to Columbia University with a full scholarship, but her parents are still like now is not the right time for Anna to go to college, which is extremely disappointing to Anna. She then goes out with Jimmy again, they have sex. Her mom senses that she has lost her virginity and like we were saying earlier she calls Anna a tramp and a putta, And.

One of the biggest mysteries of the movie, how did she know?

How did she know?

It?

Was?

It because America Frere was like looking in the mirror being like, go meet, Like.

Why how does she know? Yeah? My guess is that she was just like confidently admiring her body.

Body for the first time ever.

Yeah, right, so she's like, I better put an end to this confidence.

My daughter's feeling.

That was more the Spidey cent going off was I think my daughter's having a good feeling.

It's like her favorite refrain. She's always like a mother knows, a woman knows.

She just knows, and this time she was right. She turns out to not be right about being pregnant because she goes to the doctor, take.

A hundred shots, and you're gonna make one eventually.

True. The reason that Carmen has missed several periods in a row is a bit is because she is going through menopause, not because she is pregnant. So then we see another day at the dress factory. It's a particularly hot day and Estella won't turn on the fan because it blows dust on the dresses. So Anna takes off her shirt and her mom freaks out, but Anna is like, what's the big deal. We're all went here, we all have the same parts. And then all of the other

I'm interested in talking about the shooting situation around that scene.

There's a lot to talk about there too.

Ooh, I'm interested to learn more. And then finally Anna heads off to Columbia University. She tries to say goodbye to Carmen and to get her mom's blessing, but Carmen refuses, so her dad and grandpa take Anna to the airport, and then we see Anna walking down the streets of New York City. I ever heard of it, And that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and then we will come back to discuss and we're back.

I feel like a little bit of context for how this movie came to be is a good place to start before we get into the characters. So this, as we've sort of hinted at already, this is a movie that is based on a play by jos Afina Lopez. Her background is she was born in Mexico and then immigrated to Los Angeles. A lot of her work surrounds that experience and sort of reflections of her experience. This play is very much a part of that. She started writing.

Is apparently one of my favorite characters.

I just learned.

But anyways, Real Women Have Curves is her biggest hit so far, and people want to adapt it in one way or another originally, and I didn't know any of this before reading this kind of retrospective piece. So at the time it was going to be adapted for television by Norman Lear, who who is first of all, one hundred years old and still alive, which you got handed to him.

Wow.

But he had a reputation in Hollywood for being one of the only producers who championed diverse stories for television, and so most diverse families you saw on television in the seventies, eighties, and nineties into the two thousands he's still working were a result of his champion He is a white producer who was known for championing women's stories and diverse stories. So he seemed to host of Pheni Lopez to be kind of a natural fit for getting this project adapted into television.

However, he did.

One Day at a Time right, like the more recent adaptation, Yeah.

Yeah, And the first one was also him, right, and he did I'm trying to as like God, older TV is truly not my strength, but let me get let me get a few of his hits on the board. Samford and Son was his One Day at a Time. The Jeffersons Good Times Modu one of my favorite shows ever. Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman like he had, he did he could. He got stories on TV that no one else was trying to.

Very cool.

So hose Fina Lopez was excited that he wanted to help adapt it, but even with the Norman Lear Co sign, they could not sell Real Women Have Curves as a TV series two networks. Networks said it was not relatable a story enough, which we know is absolute hoorseshit.

Porshit, but very typical of Hollywood.

Of TV yeah to this day. So Josefina Lopez is discouraged. She's like, one of the biggest TV producers in the world, can't get this produced. Who's going to there's a second wind with this project as a film script. So she meets a writer named George Levu, which is what a what a fun name.

But.

I just like to say it, George Levu.

She meets Levu and they decide, they decide to collaborate on a screenplay together, and finally they find an executive who wants to fund the project. And it's a I have a quote here, So this project was funded by HBO, which I don't think I knew, not that it matters, I just didn't know it was an HBO movie. So Hosephina Lopez says this, I believe in twenty seventeen, in this retrospective, HBO's maud Nadler had the power to say Yes.

That was like, that's really nice.

Yeah, And none of those men love their mothers. They all hate their mothers. I love my mother not enough to fund a story on woman.

Let's not. Let's not cary away. Look look, I'm women to a point, very like us. The father of a daughter energy. Yes.

So the project gets funded. They find director Patricia Cardoso, who I believe is raised in Columbia. She signs on for the project. Luvu and Lopez become the hottest writing team in Hollywood.

The movies.

Oh and then another huge thing that happens is George Lopez signs on as a co producer, which also was like a big hand and getting this movie in front of people. It goes to sun Dance and the rest is history. But it was a huge I mean, I think we see this a lot of times in projects that are not centered around the white experience and the

And it really has aged so well. I was watching it this morning and like the jokes land, the writing feels like still very like charming and fresh and it's just a fun watch and like nothing in that movie is standing out in a bad, cringey way unless it's supposed to be. You know, it's just like so well written, and you know, it's like, yeah, the work speaks for itself.

It's funny and like it's just like, I don't know, this movie has so much going.

For it, so charming. Sorry, there's like a trash removal truck right outside my window making loud noises my air conditioners on because it's eight million degrees. Sorry for all the noise.

Is past my house and I smell fire.

Oh no, there's a lot going on.

Oh everyone, everyone is okay, Okay, let's go back to talking about the movie that takes place in la around like literally this exact time of year.

Yeah, during a heat wave in the summer, the sweltering heat. Oh my gosh. But yeah, this movie does age so well. And we've talked about there's like a span of time for movies, and honestly it ranges for a long quite

And fast commentary.

There's something that honestly like didn't even didn't connect for me until I saw it, like explicitly kind of said by the creators of the movie because I didn't have my.

Proper two thousand and two goggles on.

I guess was just showing Boyle Heights as the community that it is, versus how East LA and Latin people from La were shown in media at this time. That like this movie had a huge hand in, you know, offering a counter to the really prejudiced, like overly simplistic narrative that was being shown and everything else, which is like such a big part of Josafina Lopez's work.

It's awesome, it's very wholesome.

It is, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, and like, yeah, just think about all the movies that you see that are like set in LA about rich white people living in wealthy neighborhoods, living in huge houses, that basically just ignores huge swaths of the population of LA. Yeah, there's a huge LATINX community that is not often represented in movies here in LA and often not represented favorably if it is represented at all.

Yeah, I was just gonna say that Real Women Have Curves is markedly youthful and feminine when compared to other La Chicano Mexican American films. Like literally the other movies that we can compare it to in the same sort of genre or cultural space is like Blood and Blood Out American Me. And then you know, My Familia has more of a family dynamic at the beginning. But these films and then zoot Suit, and these are all iconic films. Zoot Suit is a musical, you know, it's a piece

I was thinking that so much of it has come back around.

Oh yeah, absolutely, I have.

A quote from mister Levu himself, let's say his name, but yeah, like speaking to you know, like drew attention to the fact like this is based on hose Afina's experience so much, as told through the soft, warm, humorous tone of her experience. Hopefully that's what you're seeing when you see the city as different from the gangs and the grittiness of other films from this time. Ho Safina wanted to show the city as a vibrant place where

Oh yeah, yeah.

I want to share a quote from the director, Patricia Patricia Cardoso says quote, I wanted to show a part of Los Angeles we don't usually see in a beautiful way, not a CD neighborhood filled with stereotypes of East LA. It was important to expand the concept of beauty for women, but also for the city and the neighborhoods. So it's like in this vision from the director, from the writer, all comes through very clearly, in very satisfying ways.

I had one other behind the scenes thing I wanted to and I know this well, this will come in and out for the rest of the episode. But I was happy that this article, like as I was so curious of like the sequence of America Ferrera lore So I guess that she had already shot Gotta Kick It Up before she shot Real women have curves, and I

She was seventeen when this movie was being shot.

But she's still a kid, and I guess that on the day that this was being shot, she decided that she didn't want to take her pants off. So this was sort of this was hashed by a few people, I mean, and it seems like, you know, fifteen years later, she's fine, everyone's relationship is fine. But at the time, so the scene had been blocked, they were ready to shoot it. I think prior to the scene being shot, America Farah said.

Okay, that's okay, I'll do that.

But I just wanted to share a few quotes from her because kids acting is like such a such a miyer, and she was uncomfortable during that scene. So she says, I was seventeen years old and it was only my second job. I'd never had to take off my clothes in front of a two hundred person crew, most of them men. I'm sure I was incredibly intimidated by that. I remember wearing a robe between takes, and as the day went on, it was too much of a hassle to get the robe on and off. So I was like, whatever,

The director.

Faked getting a phone call from an HBO executive. She was like, you know, well, you know, this is a really important part of the script. We need you to do this, and America Frere was like, I'm not comfortable with that. I don't want to do it anymore. And she's like, well, let me call HBO. The director goes outside, fakes a call. So this is from George Levu is recapping this, okay, so no, sorry, this is George Levou making the call. Levu canceled owt okay, George Levu harsh

Yeah, not, Levu's not.

It's always It's always Levu, though, isn't it. So Levu says I made an excuse. I said, let me call Colin Callender, who was the head of HBO Films at the time. I said, let me see what he wants. So I took my phone outside and I pretended to call Colin. I came back and said, Colin said you have to do it, and she said, okay, we'll do it. I didn't know what we were going to do. I couldn't imagine the movie without that scene. Hopefully they're happy

It took two days to shoot.

That scene, and she was so mad she wouldn't even look me in the eyes. The next day she came running to me and said, you know, now I understand why it was important for the character to take off her pants. Can we please shoot the scene again? I said, no, you did it perfectly. America Ferrera, now in her thirties, this is in twenty seventeen, kind of puts a pin on this discussion that I was like, I'm mad at them personally, But she says, I clearly see how this

Yeah, especially with someone who's underage, who's a minor.

Right right, I mean she's seventeen in this situation, and like that was the one production thing that I learned that didn't sit super well because it's like, yeah, this like she's an incredible performer, she's but it's I mean, a teenager talking about their body on screen is so I can't imagine how excruciatingly difficult that, oh yeah must have been. And so to have like pressure put on top of her, like you have to do this, like that sucks.

Yeah, it's it's like this period of your life where irl teenagers are still wearing T shirts in the swimming pool and like not showing their bodies to anybody, like if they feel uncomfortable. And I think what's interesting too, is like America Farara, like in that quote, nowhere is she saying that she didn't like her body, or she felt fat, or she felt not proud of her body, or uncomfortable in her body, you know what I mean.

Yeah, you know.

So it's just I just think about the compounded levels of.

It all in a movie like this, right, Yeah, And you hear about stories where like a scene like this is in the script and calls for nudity, partial nudity, you know, people wearing underwear.

I didn't feel like inappropriate or exploitative, but I also not, like, no can totally understand why a seventeen year old actor, when the moment comes to take your clothes off in front of two hundred people, no matter how safe you are, it's like that's you can feel amazing about your body and be uncomfortable with that, Like that's yeah.

So that's what I was gonna say. You hear stories about like some productions being like, Okay, I know this is going to be a potentially very uncomfortable scene for the actors, so we're going to take a bunch of

They did say that, like it wasn't actually two hundred people. It was that was like I think America Frere was like.

Hype. What is hyperbolic?

Hyper hyperbolic?

Yeah, I went to school, I swear.

So per Levu there were like dividers up so that not every member of the crew had access to the

Yeah, for sure, but it could have been handled better. She's a kid.

I wonder too that scene. I wish that I could see it like how it was staged for the theater

I would love to see a stage production of this.

I also didn't know that I guess Hosafina Lopez opened a theater in Boyle Heights.

Yes, that's Gasa zero zero one, I want to say, yeah.

Yeah.

Back in two thousand on First Street, she has a restaurant also called Gasa Fina. Oh way on First Street in Mariachi Plaza and then so so, and Mariaci Plaza is featured in the movie throughout like you see it right, and Anna goes on her dates in Mariachi Plaza and she walks through Mariachi Plaza to catch her bus to high school. So right there on First she has her restaurant, Gasa Mama, Gasa Fina, Gasa Fina, and then the theater down the street.

That's a cool.

Yeah, so that was all.

That was all the behind the scenes stuff I had.

Well, yeah, so let's let's take a break and then we'll come back and discuss the story, the movie, the characters, et cetera. And we're back.

Okay, let's get into talking about the actual what happens in the movie.

I really liked. I know, I feel like every.

Time we see public transportation in a movie, I get so excited.

But I really like.

I feel like we've covered five trillion movies where it's like New York is kind of a character ra ra rare.

But this movie, I think like La is On is like.

Really strutting its stuff in this one.

It is so beautiful and so like well done, and I love that you sort of navigate the city with public transit and I just.

Really liked it.

Yeah, yes, heart agree.

That is again like something you don't see when you want. Except for the iconic film Speed nineteen ninety two.

Could it have happened that the La Metro certainly not.

But yeah, I mean there's there's so much this movie is doing as far as representation goes, as far as just like again, powerful messaging. You know, it's a predominantly LATINX cast. I love that Spanish is spoken frequently among the characters because I feel like a lot of Hollywood executives would cite that as a thing like that will make this movie too inaccessible for a mainstream audience.

But it's funny too, because you already had so many like okay, like we had tons of Star Wars movies already at this time, and they're speaking all kinds of different made up alien languages like in those films. But Spanish is too much, that is too inaccessible, right, Like.

Oh no, a language that most people in the US speak to some degree can't have that well like not that.

Meanwhile, Elvish is.

Making a huge comeback at this same time.

All right, because Lord of the Rings two Towers comes out the same year.

There you go. I feel like the movie sometimes I feel like a movie like real women have curves, especially at this time, is almost like a crossover situation, even though it's Mexican Americans, like in La, like her character ostensibly is like you know, first or second generation, like Mexican American. And part of why I love the bus conversation and the travel conversation is because there's this crossover that happens in La. It's this east side west side crossover,

It's like ivan.

Yeah.

For for listeners who do not understand truly, the grand trek that Anna was taking to get to school every day, it's I was I was trying to do the math in my head. I'm like, that's at least an hour and a half if the bus comes on time.

Because she's like transfers. She like goes from like Boil Heights to Hollywood and Vine. She's taking transfers, which.

Is a yeah, that's uh.

The buses here look pro. But we could use some more routes, could use some more routes, use some more frequency, because yeah, sometimes you're like, why am I doing a yo yo act to get somewhere that is objectively three.

Miles from where I'm sitting unclear, look.

Right, but but but I loved that the movie took that time to show you that journey because it like it effortlessly communicates the class struggle that Anna is dealing with without having to like bop you over the head with it. It's just like an effortless part of the story. I love how you're just told visually. And also like when you see that kid Jimmy come to the east Side and like, clearly it sounds like he's like one of the people you're talking about, Malla.

Where's it's He's like what what?

Like there's a part where he's like because she knows him from school, and he goes to school in Beverly Hills, so you can presume that he probably lives in Beverly Hills as well.

It's like Shar's little brother or something.

Yes, yeah, he's Elijah Wood's son.

No, he's like he's of the Wood family for sure.

Yes, yeah, summering with the Wood family.

He's like, I wanted to go to Europe with you. Things are just too easy here. You know, you're handed everything, You're handed school, your hand, a car. That's why I want to teach, and it's like, Okay, you're saying this to Anna, who comes from a working class, blue collar family where most of her family works in a clothing factory where their labor is for sure being exploited because they're assembling dresses for eighteen dollars.

To be sold at the Bloomingdale's that his family probably shops at.

And Anna takes the bus. She's like, what are you talking about?

I take the bus and he's like, we have buses here, like right.

What I love about that scene is like Anna doesn't say any of that, you know, she just like listens to him and she's like, okay, sure, Jimmy, you know, she doesn't have to. It's so fascinating to me she doesn't. She doesn't feel compelled to tell him he's wrong or that he has it easy, or that her life is so hard, or well here's what's She's on the bus. She doesn't have a car. It's not easy for her.

Yeah, And that's just like that just like felt so real to me, and just like it just shows how she is a very like multi dimensional complex character where you know, she has no qualms about challenging her mom, challenging her sister, you know, challenging Missus Glass, the owner of the clothing manufacturer, like, but she isn't quite so challenging to some of the things that Jimmy says, because he says something like, uh, and you know, we'll talk

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy.

And she doesn't challenge that. But it's just a much more different dynamic that she has with this kid. She's this like rich white kid she's just getting to know versus her mom, who she's lived her entire life with. And that just like felt like said, you know, we all kind of switch our behavior and you know, based on who we're interacting with, and so that just like felt very familiar relatable.

Yeah, and it is just such a cool character where every time I don't know, like you can see even in that scene with Jimmy, I really like when she was like, we're not gonna have anything to talk about in three months, like don't.

Bother, blah blah blah, Like that was so cool.

And then but in the scene right after you do see that, like there is some insecurity attached to her setting that boundary in that.

Way where she's like, well, you're.

Gonna have some like skinny white girlfriend in a couple of months anyways, So like, why would I the subject being like, why would I emotionally invest in a Jimmy of the world?

And here's my question. Jimmy says that he's got into Teachers College, which leads me to believe he's enrolling at Columbia University. She gets into Columbia University, she ends up in New York. Is there a real woman Have Curves sequel where she wears the red dress in New York and they reunite somehow is that why there loose ends, Well.

This is becoming a what oh my gosh, it's becoming a to all the boys I loved before style saga.

Yes, yeah, a whole thing.

I have to wonder it's not too late.

Yes it's twenty years later, but you know, I'm.

Still waiting for that red dress payoff.

I'll be on Yeah. Yeah.

The other thing that I thought was interesting as it relates to the kind of class commentary is Missus Glass. So again, she's the owner of the dress manufacturing company that Estella is a contractor of. And there's that scene where Estella she's like at first trying to write an email to her, and Anna is like, you gotta go down and like talk to her. You're never gonna get anywhere with an email. So Anna goes with her, you know, ends up like advocating pretty hard, far more than Estella can.

It does happen. Yeah.

I find the Missus Glass character so fascinating because that character can be open to so many interpretations, Like we can create so many storylines behind her life. Is this like an Argentinian Latina with the last name Glass? Like is she like a third gen like Mexican American who like went to like Harvard Business School? Like who is this woman? And why is she the way that she is? You know?

Right?

And I love the tension there too with like you have Anna, who like went to Beverly Hills High School and is college bound and is very kind of she feels like she knows a lot of things right, And I feel like there's a lot of like power trips in this movie about what we know and what we

Don't think in my I think I got I was so caught up in the Anna of it all in my earlier viewings because it's like that is, especially if you're like a teen girl, you're plugging yourself into Anna, like end of story. I didn't think as much as I probably should have about Estella's character, and on prepping for this episode, I was like kind of blown away by how much there is in Estella's character, even though, like I mean, she's a main character, but she doesn't like.

Actually speak that much.

She doesn't take a ton of like action action or because it's so Ana's story and the relationship between Anna and her mother is so focused on. But I really love Estella, and I don't think I like had the tools to understand what she was up against when I first saw this movie, because Anna is so headstrong and like pushes back on everything and in a way that it's like really cathartic and cool to see, and and I think in my mind at the time, I'm like, well,

It, and she's still not the mom's favorite.

Right, and then like ten years later, she's still catching shit for it and her mom has given up on her for no reason, even though Estella seems like she like, yeah, is I mean, I don't know enough about how a textile factory is run to say this for sure, but it seems like Estella is kind of like doing the

With no Stellash, I feel like Estella's underrated too, because if I knew somebody who had their own dress manufacturing business and was selling gowns to Bloomingdale's, like was filling orders constantly, that's a big fucking deal. Like that's an accomplished seamstress designer, like business woman, Like that's nothing to sneeze at. She's being exploited. It is literally a sweatshop setting. But it's impressive when we really break it down and

She's literally phantom thread like.

It's also it's like further complicated by so you can kind of imagine that Estella took up this business because that's what her mom did. Like Carmen says that she has been sewing for thirty eight years and she started when she was like thirteen. So like you have Estella like taking in her mom, you know, like taking after her month. Let's the expression take something footsteps following, following in her footsteps. I was like, why can't I put this sentence together?

It's nine degrees.

Why So she's following in her mom's footsteps, possibly to impress her mom, possibly because that's the skill her mom taught her, you know, there could be any number of reasons, and was able to open up her own factory. Yeah, which I think maybe it seems to be implied that like that's something that Carmen didn't have the opportunity or the money that you need to start your own business, but it's something that Estella was able to do. And so she started her own business. And now she employs

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of layers, and it's like you have this situation where like the mother and the sister have dignity in their work, even though it's not ideal, because that is such a step. Like she's a business owner, she is doing deals with blooming Dale's and this team.

I mean it's like and and again, like that whole message is conveyed in like a single scene which is wild, like the scene when mister Guzman comes back to the house and I did I know that this is like she's wrong for this, but it did always make me laugh every time Carbon saw mister Guzman coming and she's like, who is that? Let's get him out of here, like She's slamming the door, and George Lopez's face.

Man, yeah man looking for You're like, that's that's her feature.

But yeah, like that that whole class tension of like and I feel like you see it a little bit in Nostello's character as well, where it's it's not like mister Guzman is trying to say like one thing is more valuable than the other, but I think like his person aspective is like, well, you sent her to this like bougie high school. Do you want her to have access to what the bougie high school was supposed to

Boots, she had an extremely curvy movie. Yeah.

Yeah, she has like her own like fashion house or like something like that, where like she's so talented, but it's like.

It's got an ig boutique right exactly.

It is like doing expensive custom red carpet looks yes.

For America Ferrera.

Question Mark.

But and then the movie explodes.

But but I I thought it was interesting how like there's those moments with Estella, the moments I liked most between Anna and Estella, or when Estella, I think would sometimes internalize how various systems were failing her and her business as individual failures, which is, you know, how the systems want you to feel. And I feel like, you know, even though the Missus Glass thing did not pan out and was that was kind of naive on honest part to think you could just march in and change a

Give her shit about it, because that is.

Very inherent to how Carmen treats her daughters. And just like watching Estella this like brilliant business owner who should be you know, in Milan or whatever, like having to internalize this bullshit is it's I don't know, it's like pretty subtle in the way that it's like telegraphed in the movie.

But I just I don't know.

It just felt like this whole other element to what's going on in her life that I didn't take a lot of note on because I was America.

For her built and just didn't understand the world as well.

Yeah.

Absolutely, and yet there's still so much to about Anna's character to where like, so we've been kind of dancing around the mother daughter relationship throughout the entire discussion, So let's just get into it. It's a complicated relationship. It's clear that Carmen very much loves and cares for her daughter and is coming from a place where she thinks what she's doing, what she's saying, is what's best for her daughter. She's not really doing anything out of like

I've been watching Dance Moms and Abby Lee Miller has sort of helped me to better understand Carmen's character because interest well, yes, because Abby Lee is known for her harsh words and teaching tactics with her students, but her students also win like the sweep right, and so abby Lee at one of her competitions was like, listen, I tell you the harsh truth and rehearsal because I don't want to put you on a stage and parents and other coaches are saying nasty things about your technique and

While like poor Anna's trying to write her college essay at the table, She's like stop.

The decapitation comes up, like mid essay writing, Yeah.

Oh that's perfect. And then there's also this this undercurrent throughout the movie that these women in the factory are making dresses that they can't fit into because glamorous clothing is often not manufactured for larger bodies because you have puncha saying talking about address that Estella is designing, and she says something like, yeah, I would definitely wear that if it would fit me, parentheses it wouldn't or like I couldn't probably find a dress that would fit me like this.

But that's why. And real women have curves too.

Estella is the most famous inclusive designer in the entire world world, like exactly.

She's styling Lizzo, She's said everybody. Yeah, the script writes itself, honestly, Yeah we don't.

We don't need LaVoo this time. Just get them out of the Yeah, laboo more like it more like la poo wowidding.

And then that's really sweet scene where you see Estella giving the dress that she made for Anna and she says like I cut this specifically for your body and says like pretty dresses aren't just for skinny girls, and it's just such a beautiful little like button on that through line of the movie.

Yeah, the dresses are such a double a triple whammy, because it's like it costs these women money to make these dresses. Practically, like not only can they not fit in the dresses they're making, but they can't afford the dresses they're making because they cost six hundred dollars. And the constant throughout the film is I don't think we ever see the women really get paid, you know, until the very end they reimburse the dad because of the loan.

It made me so sad, like and it made me I felt like a moment of like frustration with Estella. I was like, oh, but that it's like, but she's being put in an impossible position.

It's just and I feel like it.

The movie, I guess in that moment did kind of telegraph clearly why Estella feels like this is all her fault, because she's the one that has to tell her employees, I can't pay you even though you're doing really really hard work like all the time, and I won't turn a fan on because of dust Like it's of course she feels terrible, but it's like, but yeah, I don't know this viewing, I was Estella pilled on this one.

And the thing about the movie too, was like that, Ah, there's so much, so many questions because Anna goes off to New York. She's streating her stuff. But remember, like Estella stayed behind because she had to go to the factory. Like the factory continues, the dead is still there, like the turnover, that's all still, that's still going on while Anna's in New York.

Right at least Estella gets her own bedroom now because they were sharing a bedroom.

So true, that is she deserves she deserves.

Yeah, she deserves. I mean, she deserves her own place.

We could.

Like I wanted to get back to mom a little bit.

As well, because I really do think it's like it's such a tricky rule. I feel like it is such a testament to Lupe Antevero's for making Carmen a lovable character and like because I feel like on paper it's tough. The things she says to her daughters can be so cutting and awful, and the fact that she is able to get across, Like I do believe that she loves her daughters. But there's all these layers of and I know that there's there's so many Oh there's another fire.

Is kind of projecting onto her daughters. It's a lot of cultural values that she grew up with.

It's a generational value, it's it's internalized shame being projected back onto her kids.

And there was an element.

Of it the closest I could get to, like relating to outside of like just being a body shamed by female relatives, which happened in my family brutally and all

Like, no, that doesn't don't know what.

No, Yeah, but on.

A human level, you can understand how you know she, I mean, Carmen has had to deal with shit her entire life, and she was raised a very particular way, and you understand how she got to where she is in the way she views the world. And also be like, but you have to let your daughters, you know, you've got to want more for your kids. You've got to want them to be able to go their own way.

Yeah, There's there's a piece too where it's like Carmen,

Yeah?

Are they sometimes kind of cute see names? Yeah? But can they also be used like to cut? Also? Yes? So there's also like that sort of like very subtle like line that I love that hole Setina plays with with her writing.

Yeah, and it works so well. And then again, the other thing that Carmen tends to do with Anna it mostly well part. So it's like Carmen has this idea that you know, a woman has to save herself quote unquote till marriage. She can't have sex until she's married, and it's also her duty to get married and start raising a family and to take care of that family and to take care of her husband. And she wants

America Ferrera like performs the hell out of those speeches. I like it's so good, Yeah, I really And I

Now, and like all this stuff.

But she like is very in charge of her sexuality.

She's I loved that they went out of the way to be like and she made sure that she was safe. She protected herself because who knows what's going on with this kid Jimmy, but also doesn't know how condoms work, which is very true of seventeen year olds, and that when she was done, she was like, you know, I don't want this to be a relationship.

I feel like teen movies so.

Often put young women in the situation of like the first boy that is nice to me or finds me attractive, or like sees me for who like the whatever walking down the stairs moment?

What's that movie that I hate? All that?

Yes, like the first the first boy that sees me for who I really am is the love of my life and blah blah blah, And Anna's like, I live in the real world. I don't want to keep seeing you and like it's just such a that happens nowhere, Like it was just so cool to see her take charge of everything.

Yeah, I love too that the movie manages to be very dramatic, hilarious, hilarious, but also very dramatic, and nothing that dramatic happens plot wise, like she graduates high school, dates a boy, and goes to college, you know, like and like works summer, Like.

It feels so cinematic that you know.

Very wholesome. But there's it's so cinematic and that's for me is the you know, she doesn't get pregnant, she doesn't go to jail, no one dies of an overdose, Like, there's no stabbings, like, but drama. And that's the brilliance of the movie and the writing, Like that's the storytelling because you're captivated and you're like feeling feelings and going through it with her, And I feel like that is the drama of teen angst. That's how heightened it can be.

And you know, the movie doesn't take any shortcuts when it comes to like this is a dramatic story, so someone has to die. Like it's just like life is dramatic, yeah and hilarious. Yeah, and the movie balances both very well.

It's so good.

Yeah, it's yes, well you said it perfectly where you're like, yeah, like teen girl life is everything feels.

Like a movie.

Yeah, everything teen ANGSTNGST. And so this is I think just in that vein Teen Girls, you know struggle.

They're in the trench. They're in the trenches twenty four to seven.

Truly, if you're a teen girl listening, I salute you. It does get better eventually, it will eventually eventually its hold.

On another thing.

I feel like I just was so impressed and like blown away by the writing of like there's no character, however small, that you don't have some level of investment in, because the script goes out of its way to like, you know, at least something about every woman who works with Estella, Like you get to know them over the course of the movie, even like in I think again, in like a less thoughtfully written movie, it would just be like background seamstress number four, but that role like

But it's like you know who who.

These women are, and you already have gotten to know like a little bit of their history and their relationship with their co workers throughout the movie, and so it feels like, Oh, I'm in a room full of women whose lives I know something about, and now they're finally comfortable talking about their their bodies and their insecurities and their like everything, and it just felt so yeah, like the attention to detail is so awesome.

Absolutely, Uh what else?

What else we got going on?

Sorry, I feel like I just blacked out for a second because I inhaled.

So hot hot.

Yeah.

I want to share one last quote from the creator of this property cos of Veena Lopez. So the play seems to be a bit more focused on the on a character being undocumented for some portion of her life and the anxiety about being undocumented and being deported, and that is a focus on the play that is eliminated from the movie. So this quote, this quote is a little bit about hose Aphina talking about being undocumented, just to put that into context. But Hosephina says, quote, I

I hell, yeah, that's.

Such a nice She's so cool. The last thing I had this is not a criticism. It was just something that I is something we've talked about in the show before, and so I wanted to sort of see what y'all felt about it.

I really love that this.

Movie puts mother daughter relationships front and center and gives them precedents. We get a few scenes with their father, who seems to be a very nice, affable kind of guy.

Yeah, real nice guy.

Right, but as is their grandfather.

I just feel like, I don't know, I mean, I I don't even think that I would want anything to be changed. I just think that there are moments in movies at center around mother's and daughters where it's like the dad is always like the quote unquote nicer guy. It just felt like a little I was like, okay, so well, dad.

When dads are mean, they're scary, Like we're gonna get too scary territory with mean dad, right, So it's like all all the kind of baggage is rolled into Carmen, and it just like, I don't know, I mean, I didn't really feel strongly about it. I just always feel like I noticed when there's a lot of movies where it's like the dad is quote unquote the nice parent.

Yeah, yeah, I would say that, yes, And that certainly is a trope that we've discussed to a large extent on the show. But I think it all depends on how the movie approaches it and how the movie actually handles it. In this movie, it didn't feel tropy. It didn't feel like it was leaning into stereotypes about a mom being.

Right, what is the word I'm searching for?

But she's like so, I mean, Carmen is so like contextualized and well written and like hmm, you understand, yeah, why she reacts the way she does.

Right, There's all these shows like there's like I think of like the Mom, I'm like Malcolm in the Middle. Then there's like Everybody Loves Raymond, the White Debra and I love all these characters, all these women. What's the other one? But there's a bunch right like where like the mom is oh my wife and kids, the dad is like funny goofball and then the mom's kind of kind of a bitch, kind of strict, always yelling, high strung, like he's always doing stupid things to stress her out.

An anti hero.

Yeah, yeah, we can't stand her and she sometimes because of the thing she says, but we still love her. And I also feel like I love that Anna's character is allowed to be kind of a brat, Like Carmen's kind of a bitch and Anna's kind of a brat. And as much as they insist that they are different, the more we see their similarities. And I feel like it's so interesting the way she pits them against each other.

It is like another thing where it's like I want to see, Yeah, I feel like we're making a strong case for a sequel. I want to see what this relationship between them looks like twenty years down the line, like because I do understand like they're her parents. I mean, there's so much anxiety around on a leaving to go to college, especially across the country, and I feel like there's a subtext of like she's gonna change, she's gonna like not be the girl that we raise, and like she'll lose.

Touch with who she is if she leaves.

And I would love to see that relationship examined twenty years down.

Ah.

Yes, yeah.

My last observation is, so there is another movie about like a young woman who's just graduated from high school, who lives in California and has a difficult relationship with her mother. She dates a boy and has sex for the first time, and then she goes off to college across the country. I also think in New York City and that movie is Ladybird. There's a lot of parallels here.

Interesting, And Ladybird's kind of a brat.

Yeah yeah, and like a lot of body stuff with the mom as well body stuff.

You know, there's class commentary in that movie as well. Very similar movies.

Interesting.

I would say, if you like Ladybird, for sure, check out Real Women Have Curves if you haven't seen it. I think the real women have curves? Does it better? I find it to be a.

More fifteen years earlier.

Fifty Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I didn't make that connection, yeah, totally.

So, Yeah, if you liked Ladybird. Definitely check out real women have curves if you haven't seen it.

Sorry, I got caught up in my own horrible Ladybird joke, which is, instead of that boy, Jimmy, Ladybird has that boy.

Timmy Oh, Timmy shallow May, Yes.

Timmy shallow May, most hilarious joke of all time.

And on.

No, there's actually no good way to transition this, but I.

Mean talking about Timothy Shalamey. I do think passes the Bechdel test. If that's where you.

Were going, I don't know what is he like?

You know, like this, can we even a good question?

You really vouch for him? I feel like it's still kind of a miss. It eludes me, but you know, it doesn't elude me. Whether this movie passes the Bechel test or not.

Yes, we did it.

This movie super passes the Bexel test.

It's barely even worth discussing because it passes between almost any pairing of characters that aren't men. I like we discussed before, this movie does takes a lot of care to give every character in the movie, particularly the women, a name and some information about them. So really, any interaction happening to get the factory that isn't explicitly about marriage, passes.

The Bechel test.

They're talking about their bodies, they're talking about school, they're talking about work, they're talking about deadlines.

They're talking about taxes, they're talking about.

They're just you know, dare I say it being full on people and characters the whole damn movie?

Yep.

And as we also touched on in the episode, this movie has just so much focus on the female character and the relationships between female characters. And while there are you know, there's a dad, there's the grandpa, there's a couple male cousins, those characters are like pretty secondary or tertiary, and it's really so much of a focus on the women and their relationships, so still.

Depicted with love.

It's not like they're like left by the wrisub but like, but you know, like but yes it is. It is a women's movie, and you know women that we don't usually get focused on, women who are working class, women who are immigrants, women who are people of color and Latin specifically. So it's just this movie is doing so much that no other movie of its time is doing, and still most movies now are not doing so with that in mind, another perfect transition.

And do you mean the nipple scale. Yes, the only perfect metric, and it is, of course a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens.

So you know, given all possible factors to consider, every potential factor one might consider with regards to this movie and this rating, I would give it a four.

Hell yeah, yeah, I think, I mean I would go like four to four and a half. It's I was really happy to see.

Like especially, I mean just the fact that like women wrote and directed and produced this and like, yeah, most of them are women of color like that, I feel like, I mean, yeah, still unheard of now and.

It's still and it's a classic, like you can't.

Yeah, it's I feel like real women have curves kind of yet to be topped except by real women have curves two coming out next year, yeah, pending, and then and then we also you know, bequeath you the power to gift your four nipples to any character person, an actor, production person of your choice. You can distribute in pairs or not, you know, like kind of get creative with it.

Oh, this is so difficult because I want to give two each to just America and Loupe, you know, just split them up half and half. But I also want to give hos Afina two, but I only have four, you know what. I'm gonna give Loop anti Vedos two because she passed away rip. I'm going to give hos Afina Lopez two because she wrote it. She's an icon, and I'm gonna give America for one because she's the youngest and I think is still working on icon status. That's how we'll do it.

I think that that was very judicious of you. That was very diple about it.

Thank you.

I'm gonna go forward to half and I'm gonna docket the half nipple just for making America for uncomfortable when she was seventeen. She is a living legend and a child, and I'm, you know, gonna I'm going to put that one on Lavu.

No nipples for Luvu for me zero.

But outside of that, I think this movie is so fucking awesome and it I mean, it was doing so many things no other movies were doing.

Hosefina Lopez is an.

Incredible writer and I just love every element of this movie. And I'm now an estella stand for life Hell so I'll give one nipple to Anna, one to Estella. I'll give the half to Carmen because she's doing her best.

Yeah, and I.

Have I have love for her. Yeah, but leave Anna and Nostella alone. I'll give one to Pancha. I loved Pancha. I feel like super underrated character, and I will give one to I should give one to Hoefina Lopez, but I'm going to give it to Hosefina Lopez playing the manager of the burger joint because that is acting.

Scene Steeler, scene Steeler.

Exactly where was a major Oscar snub that year?

Oh?

And then the last thing I wanted to say was I guess as of last year, there's a musical being written around this, so no way. Hopefully people are listening to this episode from the future and just saw real women have curves on Broadway. I feel like this would be such a good musical. Hell yeah, I love musicals, and I love musical adaptations that aren't already Disney movies, So this seems like something I would love.

Yep, Caitlin, what is your writing for this flim Oh.

This flim gets I would say four and a half. I was gonna give it a five before I knew about the the sketchy things that were happening, especially in that one in that one particular scene where America Ferrera expressed discomfort and then they deceived her with like yucky. But aside from that, this is such a wonderful movie. Again, a focus on women, women's stories, women's relationships, positive LATINX representation that we so rarely see in cinema, especially in

Multi generational, which I feel like we haven't like explicitly like, there's just there's so.

Much and so much is accomplished, so effortlessly, so effortless. Oh my gosh, I'm so bad at that word.

I think everyone has those words.

It takes a lot of effort for me to say effortlessly.

Wow, there we go.

So much is accomplished in a movie that is less.

Than an hour and a half, which we were texting about every movie should be less than an hour and a half long. If this movie can do what it does in an hour and a half. What's your excuse?

I was about to say something flippant, annoying, and what's your excuse?

Titanic?

Okay, now that's straight up one exception.

Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. I'm so sorry.

Everyone, who are you giving your nipples to?

I'm going to give my nipples to one to America Ferreira, one to Lupe ante Veros, one to Ingrid Oliu who plays Estella. I'll give one to the women who work in the clothing factory, and then my half nipple I will give to Los Angeles Public Transportation because.

It's called the Metro preas owner.

But generically it is public transportation. It is, and I do take it sometimes brave oky.

Pray occasional red line user.

Wow, I love to bully people who don't use enough public fads day. But that said, you drove me to the beach yesterday, so.

It makes you think it does? It does indeed, right, So that is real women have curves.

Mala, thank you so much for being here, and uh yeah, where can we find you online?

Plug away?

Yes, so I am on all social platforms at Mala, Underscore, Munios, m U n o Z is the last name, and you can listen to I have two podcasts out. One is called Look at Tora Radio, which is the flagship podcast that I co host with my co producer Yosa, and then my solo show, Mari Juanetta, a podcast for potheads. And we're on Apple, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all the usual places.

Hell yeah, also your stand up fucking rules.

Thank you so much.

Yes, and then you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon at Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, which gives you two bonus episodes every month, along with access to the back catalog of over one hundred bonus episodes all and that is all for five dollars a month.

Oh can you imagine? Can you imagine? It's actually sometimes I.

Do reflect on the value and just I'm like, Wow, what a deal, what a steal? Whatere? Are we? Okay? Uh?

You can also get our march at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast if you are so inclined. And with that, I mean I think we should mention we've been shirtless.

Yeah. The last half of the episode, I mean, am.

I gonna put my clothes back on.

We'll see Carmen deal with it all right.

Bye bye bye