On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin, I bought a bus. Do you want to drive through the Australian out Back with me?
Yes?
But I don't have a driver's license, so you will be doing all of the driving. I'll just be drinking slowly in the back.
If that's okay with.
You, Well, I will also be drinking question Mark, because Hugo Weaving's character is like, I'll have a Long Island iced tea even though he was driving. It's desert rules.
I feel like it's almost Vegas rules for DUIs.
And I'm kidding. It seems like they could really have fallen in a hole and died.
It seems like it. But I think when we inevitably tour in Australia someday, hopefully we should do it the way they do it in the movie.
We should do it bus style.
Absolutely, I'm going in hard pro Abba.
Well, same same, Bernadette.
You would have hated Mama Mia hated it.
Yes, I think it's funny that they're like duking it that.
I don't know if Priscilla, Queen of the Desert is still on Broadway, but it was on Broadway for some time, and just having Priscilla and Mama Mia duking it out on Broadway just feels appropriate, feels beautiful.
Yeah, No, I love that. Anyways.
Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus.
My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point. We're just trying to get the conversation going. But Jamie, what's the Bechdel Test?
Wow? I can tell you.
It is a media metric creative by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel off and called the Bechdel Wallace Test due to it was co created with Alison Bechdell's friend Liz Wallace. Was originally made as a sort of one off joke in Alison Bechdell's great comic series Dikes To Watch Out For.
It was originally written not just to talk about how infrequently characters of marginalized genders speak to each other in movies, but also in a queer context that has sort of been stripped back in the mainstream interpretation of this test.
Lots of versions of it.
The one we use require us that two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to each other for more than two lines of dialogue, and it cannot be about a man.
And yeah, that's the test. It sure is.
Honestly, I was just really enjoying right before we start recording an article written about the search for the bus, which of all the micro discussions to have about this movie. I appreciate that there is a long essay in The Guardian about finding the bus.
It took thirty year, but they found the bus. I love that.
Well.
Priscilla is a character I think when they drive Priscilla that passes the Bechdel test. I can't explain how or why, but it does. Yeah, Priscilla's an important member of the cast.
I'm so excited for this episode.
It has been a long time request and we just have sort of been waiting for the right guest, the right moment, and it's happened and we're.
Here, so let's get our guests in here.
Let's do it. He's a writer, YouTuber and podcaster.
It's Matt Baum.
Hello, welcome, Hi, Hello, thank you so much for having me.
Oh my gosh, we're big fans. We cite you. I feel like every other week.
Oh yay, I'm big fans of the show too, so I'm delighted we could be. I don't know, we can have this mutual admiration going on.
Do you want to come with us on our bus tour around Australia.
On our scary buzz Oh for sure, yes, yeah, you know, I'm very much when I travel. I'm very into like preparation and lists and making sure everybody has what they need. Like I'm the one with the sunscreen, the electrolytes and everything so and I don't drink, so like you could be handling the stolely and I'll just be back there making sure everybody's got gatorade and they've got cold compresses.
Yeah, oh you gotta come, you gotta come.
I would have like folding bikes in the back of the bus for when the bus breaks down. We're like, all right now we're just biking to Alice Springs.
Right, perfect, we have like thermal suits to prevent the heat exhaustion.
Like it's all good.
Yeah, exactly, love it.
So Matt, tell us about your relationship with this movie.
Oh yeah, yeah, we've both seen your video about it from Gosh a couple of years ago now, but yeah, what's your history.
Yeah, you know, I did a video on YouTube, because that's where I spent so much of my time. I did a video on YouTube about Priscilla, but I didn't really talk in that video about it's like meaning to me, which is when I was a teenager in the nineties in suburban Connecticut. This was like my most intense I don't know, like locusts of queer energy. Because it was on VH one late at night. They had segments between
at the commercial breaks that were hosted by RuPaul. So RuPaul would come on and like she'd have some comment about the movie. She'd mentioned something about like the costume designer wearing a dress made of like mex gold cards, and you know, she'd like throw out all this like fun trivia stuff, and this was so much more gay anything that I was getting anywhere else. So Priscilla really was, you know, an entry point for me into queer culture.
Like I'd read a little bit about like the Stonewall Riots and history and serious stuff, but seeing that like, oh and this is fun too. Not just fun, but there's others out there and you can have a party and you can find like a neighborhood where you belong. There was so much packed into this film.
Absolutely, Jamie, what's your relationship?
My relationship is? I saw it starting pretty young. My aunt had a copy of it, I think on maybe on VHS something like that, and it sort of was like a fun comfort movie.
This movie and The Bird Cage.
Were both I think the Bird Cage did ultimately get the heavier play, but I yeah, I watched this movie once every couple of years for.
A long time, and it's always interesting to revisit.
I feel like every time I revisit it, you know, you get something new out of it. It's certainly a product of it's time and with the old discuss.
But I really love it.
I also just love a road movie, like it's just I don't know, it's This movie is a blast, and I think the performances are wonderful. And to prepare for this because I had just watched Priscilla a couple of months ago and found a documentary that was produced about the history of it that is narrated by Terrence Stamp.
Oh, yes, I just watched that on like, yeah one point seven five Speed on YouTube.
I've done that, Yeah, because I've also talked about this movie on a different podcast, So I like had just watched it and rewatched it, and it's a really sweet documentary and I think it's very funny that, you know, it's like Terrence Stamp is kind of like the number one fan Priscilla.
He's like, I'm going to narrate it. But yeah, I mean learning about the production of this movie sort of made me appreciate.
It in ways I didn't know because not only I mean, was there certainly major spots I wasn't aware of with queer culture when I first watched this movie as a kid, but also there's a lot about Australian culture that I did not know or understand, and I think if you're not Australian and you would just completely miss it. So I learned a lot, and so yeah, I'm really excited to talk about it on this show.
There's so much to talk about. Caitlyn what's your history with Priscilla.
I had only seen this once before when I was watching the hundreds of movies when I first started film school in the mid two thousands, so I had heard about it and I was like, oh, I know that this is like an iconic entry into queer cinema, and I really liked it. I thought it was such a fun romp of the other queer movies I had seen.
It was tonally lighter than so many of them. That and the bird Cage were too that I saw around the same time as well, and I was like, Oh, it's it's so refreshing to see these movies that like celebrate queer joy. But I didn't watch it again for some reason, and I didn't remember a lot about it going into this rewatch, except for I remembered the abba piece of poo in the vial.
I mean, unforgettable, unforgettable.
I remembered some of the iconic imagery as far as like the I think it's the Felicia character on the roof of the bus with like the flowing thing behind, I mean.
The costumes are unbelievable, and the one that all sticks me is the flip flop dress, the flip flap dress is my favor.
Flip flop dress is so good.
I remembered the ping pong ball scene.
We'll get to that. Oh my god, the ping pong ball scene. This was the first viewing where I really truly recognized the weird sound effect they added in post.
You know, when you're shooting a ping pong ball and if you're pussy and it goes booo like, it's like a little fish blowing up bubble disgusting, disgusting.
We'll talk about it.
But anyways, if no one has ever recognized the weird like ping pong ball ejection dot MP three they put in there, it's there multiple times, and you're.
Like, oh, why, it's wild. Anyway, So I remembered a few of those iconic moments, but I forgot a lot else about it. So it was really fun to revisit and be reminded of some of the things that are really fun and great about this movie and some of the things that don't hold up so well and sert ping pong ball dot MP three.
Yeah.
Yeah. Should we get into the recap and we'll go from there.
Let's do it.
Okay, So we are in Sydney, Australia, I ever heard of heard of it?
Yeah?
Wow, wow, huh it Actually it looks really appealing, you know, And I didn't get the first time I watched the movie when I was a teenager, I was like, why are they so down on this place? There's a game more and they're like it. There's people who are like waving goodbye when they leave, like it seems nice, and I just I didn't get like why they were why they had Sydney fatigue.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think that's one of the things that you need like Australian context to really appreciate.
It kind of reminded me.
I mean, just like my relationship with like I guess I've only really lived in like two big cities, but like both times, you know, you have days where you're like this place is a shithole, this place is cooked, and.
Then someone visits and they're like, wow, this is the most beautiful.
You know, You're like, oh, yeah, I guess, I guess I sort of forget that there is beautiful things around me because I'm so annoyed with everyone all the time.
I could relate with that exactly. Yeah, that grass is greener of the grass is Always Greener. Yeah, Yeah, what's that movie that. It's about like a bunch of people who get trapped in an explosion in the Lincoln Tunnel or something like that. It's from like the early nineties.
Going on Daylight. Sylvester salone, right, that sounds right.
It starts like all these people like it just random people entering the Link tunnel in or which whichever, I don't know, whichever one it was. And one of them is this woman who's moving out of New York and she like her whole like little car, it's like a gremlin, is like loaded up with every possession and she's like screamingly furious at New York and she's driving to the town. She's like, I've had it up to hair with all your shit, New York. Like it's her introduction to that character.
That's kind of how these these drag queens feel to me. At the start of the movie.
They're done, they're done.
Oh gosh. Anyway, so we're in We're in Sydney, and we open on a drag show where drag queens Mitzi played by Hugo Weaving and Felicia played by Guy Peers are performing. But the crowd is lackluster, if not hostile toward them.
They're throwing cans.
Yeah, and they're like, we're sick of this shit. And then Mitzi, who also goes by the name Tick, receives a call from a woman who we don't yet know who this is, who pitches something to Mitzi off screen. Mitzi seems down for it, then calls her friend, Bernadette played by Terence Stamp, whose husband had just died.
Her husband her what's her husband's name? Her husband has kind of a weird name.
It's like tuba, trombone, trombone, trumpet, trump some brass instrument, and you're like, is this.
An Australia thing? Can you just be named Trumpet?
So we learned that Bernadette's her husband Trumpet, has just passed away. So Mitzi and Felicia attend the funeral. Also, it's worth noting here that Bernadette is a trans woman. Mitzi and Felicia are, as far as we know, CIS men who are drag performers. I will probably just refer to them as Mitzi and Felicia, although they are also
known as Tick and Adam anyway. So they attend the funeral where Mitzi invites Bernadette to come along on an upcoming tour I guess, a road trip to Alice Springs, which is in the outback, for a string of shows that will begin in a few weeks. And Mitzi also invites Felicia to Bernadette's dismay, because she thinks Felicia is a bit.
Much not entirely wrong.
She's correct, So Felicia provides the transportation for this trip. Because Felicia buys a bus with her like homophobic mombs money yeah, and names it Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. They pack up, they load into Priscilla the bus, and they head out on the road. They're driving, they're singing, they're chatting. Bernadette and Felicia are not getting along. This is the start of Felicia dead naming Bernadette, a trend
which happens throughout the movie. We'll talk about that. Then Mitzi reveals the reason she got this gig in Alice Springs, which is that her wife, her wife, her his wife offered up the gig at this hotel that I think hotel Casino.
Ye things, yeah, she runs this like I think Casino is probably a resort it's yeah, yeah, I like that. I get the impression that, like Alice Springs, I don't know that this is exactly right, but it's sort of like Bronson, Missouri, Like it's a lower tier, middle of the country sort of destination. That's right, not too expensive it, but it's also like there's more culture than you'll find if you go like twenty miles outside of it, so it's sort of like a little a little oasis.
Yeah, yeah, that feels right.
I mean, and Australian listeners feel free to correct us, but that did feel right. I don't know, especially based on the reaction towards the end spoiler alert, when Bernadette decides to stay there, moving from Sydney and everyone's like, what.
The fuck are you talking?
Yeah, yeah, So Mitsi reveals this about having a wife, and the other two are shocked. They didn't know about this wife, who Mitsi is estranged from. Felicia keeps ragging on Mitzi about it. Then they stop in a small town. Mitzi and Felicia are both in just wild drag costumes.
This is where we see the flip flop dress. Felicia is in this like blue plastic wig and they go out to a bar, and many of the townspeople are very you know, queer phobic toward them, but then the group mostly warms up to the trio, although the following morning they wake up to see that Priscilla the bus has been vandalized with a homophobic slur painted across the side of the bus. Felicia also dead names Bernadette again,
and she understandably lashes out at Felicia. They set off again, taking a shortcut on a dirt road, but oh no, oh no, Priscilla the bus breaks down, so Bernadette sets off on foot into the desert to try to find some help. Meanwhile, Felicia paints over the vandalism on the bus, turning Priscilla into a like pinkish color.
That is not what lavender is, that's.
True, Actually, lavender I think would be a little more blue.
The yeah, but whatever, but at this point I don't want to encourage anymore infighting on this bus, Like, fine.
Fine, what you want. And then Bernadette eventually comes back with help, although the man sees Mitzi in drag and immediately speeds off, so they're stranded still and they use the time to start rehearsing for the upcoming shows. Then a man named Alan played by Alan Dargan. Dargan finds the trio and brings them to a party that he and his friends and family are having in the desert. Mitzy, Bernadette, and Felicia put on a little show for the group.
Alan gets into drag and joins them. The next day, Alan helps them get a tow truck and then disappears from the movie.
I wish Alan went with that. I know, it felt like the movie setting it up for Alan to come with and it.
Yeah, I know, I really want the Alan story, Like they they've opened his eyes and he's open theirs and now I don't know, they part ways and the camera goes with our heroes. But I just I want another movie where it goes with him.
Yeah, it's been off. He was a natural.
Mm.
Yeah.
So then they get a toe from a guy named Bob played by Bill Hunter to this small town. The trio has dinner with Bob and his wife Cynthia played by Julia Cortez who Bob is very cruel too, and we will talk about that as well. But Bob suggests the trio perform their show at a local pub and They're like, I don't know if this town is gonna go for the type of show that we do, and Bob is like, no, it'll be fine. I for one
love drag shows. He was a fan of the Lay Girls from back in the day when he used to live Sydney, and he's like, no, it'll be great. So the trio does their show and sure enough, the audience hates it, but they're interrupted when Cynthia comes into the bar proceeds to get on stage, put ping pong balls into her vagina and then pop them back out again, and everyone is.
Like woohoo, Encore. I mean, an impressive feat. But we'll circle.
Back to it. Yes, I gotta say this scene was absolutely befuddling to me when I saw it as a teenager. Because VH one trimmed it. There was a little bit of a made for cable edit here that made the scene absolutely more mystifying. It was mortifying and mystifying, and I could tell that something like embarrassing had happened, but enough of the scene had been chopped out that it was totally totally befuddling. So I gotta say, like, once I finally saw that the proper movie like I actually
got it on VHS. Actually the movie I was like, oh okay, But otherwise it just seems like she shows up, everybody cheers, and then everyone gets met, and I'm like, why is Felicia cackling and why are they so stunned?
Like what is happening?
She's just dancing?
Yeah, exactly, that's I mean, having pulled things out of my vagina on stage many times before the raw launch that Cynthia is able to do.
I you know, the keegel drop, the hints drop that, I know the keegel I like, I was fascined.
I mean, obviously you could tell from the cinematography did not happen because of ping pong ejection dot MP three, But it was like, is it possible?
Could it be done?
What's the movie where there's a character on stage you see them like spread eagle, and it seems like ping pong balls are shooting out of this character's vagina, But then it cuts to the like reverse angle, and it you just see that character like hitting.
A ping pong ball.
Movies with hitting the ping pong balls with a ping pong paddle, and so the joke is like, oh, you think the balls are coming out of the vagina, but they're just hitting them with a paddle.
What movie is this? Does anyone know? No idea?
I would like to watch it? Yeah? Was this more of a thing? Was this a reference people to be like, oh, yeah, that thing?
I hope that this is the kind of thing where our listeners are like, you didn't know about that.
I feel like I've seen this referred to in other And I don't know if Priscilla quin in the Desert is like the genesis of this, like patient zero.
Yeah, but like I definitely have seen it referred to in other things.
Wow. I will say I went to a show this many years ago at Acbar in La It was an AS themed art show and there was a performance by somebody who comes out. There's a stage, we're all sitting in the audience. There's I don't know, like twenty five people in the audience, and so this person comes out and lays down a drop cloth and we're like, what's
coming next? And then they come out and very very deliberately put down these little paint squeezy paint bottles with like it looks kind of like in a kitchen when you have like the squeeze bottles with like the plastic lid, you know, the nozzle on top, very deliberately lays them down their full of pain around the edge of the stage.
We're like, what is happening here? They remove their clothes and then they very deliberately insert the paint into themselves and then silently, by the way, there's no sound happening, they move from corner to corner to corner of the drop cloth and create a work of art by ejecting the paint onto the drop cloth. And amazing, I will tell you the you could have heard a pin drop
from the audience. We were transfixed by this artwork. And then as I recall, it was hanging on the wall by the end of the night.
So anyway, that is amazing.
God. Yeah, I think it was. The event, as I recall, was called the whole story, and I was just like one butt themed piece of art after another.
Amazing.
Wow.
I love a pun I love a whole story.
Well, listeners, I mean, if there is a time honor tradition of ping pong ball whole ejection.
Do let us know.
No need to send links, but like you know, sounds to me I want to, Yeah, send Caitlin the whole links. I uh, yeah, maybe you've just lived too sheltered a life.
Well, time to break free, Jamie. I wonder what movie you're thinking. I don't know.
It's a movie I've seen a couple of times, but clearly not enough to even remember what the movie is. It's some comedy, I'm guessing because like, and that's a pretty funny joke, like, oh you think and then the reveal, Oh, they're just hitting it with a paddle.
Anyway, it's like.
A zucker, like a police squad type or like I feel like Leslie Nielsen would be adjacent to that joke in some way.
Yeah, a Hangover movie.
Sorry, I'm looking m I don't think so that those movies aren't smart enough for a joke like that.
Bradley Cooper talks about catching Vagina launched ping punk ball.
What a headline, And that's not even from a movie, it's just from his journey.
We'll figure it out maybe by the end of the episode. But anyway, so we see this scene where Cynthia is launching ping pong balls out of her pussy and everyone loves it except for Bob, who is humiliated. And this seems to dissolve his marriage with Cynthia because she packs up her car and leaves, and Bob joins Bernadette, Mitzi, and Felicia on their road trip.
Then this is the part of the movie where I start screaming, Bernadette, you can do better.
Oh my gosh. They are obsessed with Bob and it's like, did you not see him being horribly abusive to his wife?
Like what the fuck?
Anyway, so they stop in another small town. Mitzi and Bernadette enjoy a quiet dinner where they discuss Mitzi wanting to have children, they discuss Bernadette's transition. Meanwhile, Felicia gets all dulled up in drag, and I don't know exactly how to phrase this, but it's not the like campy, exaggerated show drag that we've seen her in up until this point. It's more like attempting to pass as a CIS woman.
And Felicia goes to this.
Gathering of men drinking beer in a parking lot. Bob is there too, and Felicia flirts with one of the men and he's into it at first, but then sees Felicia's arm hair. I think that's like the giveaway that this is not a CIS woman, so he assaults and starts chasing Felicia, and.
Only then does Bob reveal that he knows Felicia right.
Because Bob intervenes. Mitzi and Bernadette see this happening, and they step in and stop this, you know, mob of homophobes, and they get Felicia to safety. We see Bernadette first be rating, then consoling Felicia, and then the group sets off again toward their destination. Bob at some point tells the others that Cynthia basically.
Tricked him into marrying her or something happened like that.
Again, we'll discuss that further later. Then Bernadette and Bob are kind of vibing, and then they finally arrive at their destination, Alice Springs ever heard of it, and Mitzi reunites with her his wife Marian played by Sarah Chadwick, and then we get a reveal that they have a child together, a little boy named benj which Mitzi knows about, but Bernadette and Felicia obviously don't, so they're shocked.
Once again. Mitzy loves to have a little secret. Yes, yes, and so.
They prep for and put on the first show their lip sinking to finally it's happened to me, my veaz and I just cannot hide it. And there are lots of elaborate costumes and costume changes which just through the magic of film editing, just happened. At the end of the show, Mitzy sees that Benje was watching the whole time, and Mitzy faints embarrassed to know that Benge knows about Mitzy being a drag performer, but Benje is fine with it. He seems proud of his father, doesn't care that he's gay.
And then Marion and Bene join the group on the road in Priscilla the Bus so the MITSI can spend more time with and get to know Bene. Though Mitzi is putting on more of the like tick persona, like pretending to be straight, dressing more masculine, I guess, like wanting to be a quote unquote good example for Bene. But he doesn't give a fuck, and he's like, I want to see the abba show that you do. Do you have a boyfriend?
What's going on?
It reminded me of like this is incredibly different genre, but how in every Mary Kate Nashley movie, the kids are obsessed with like do you have a boyfriend?
When are you getting married?
Like if Bench is a character like that where anytime he's talking to his dad, he's like, do you have a boyfriend?
Tell me?
It's like, wow, I can't imagine asking my parents.
So, I mean, I understand the narrative function, but it just always makes me laugh when a child does that in a movie, because I feel most children really do not want to know what theirs are up to.
Correct I Also I love that Benji is like unfazed by Felicia, like that character, the guy Piers character, like the whole movie. His deal has been I like to get a rise out of people. I like to piss people off, shock people, and this kid like actually is surprising to him. And they had this very brief scene together and by the end of it, I think Benji
says something like do you want to play Lego? Or something like that, and like they're actually sort of like well matched because Felicia is so childish and they actually are a good pair, the two of them.
Yeah, yeah, because Felicia's like, you know your dad's gay, right, and Benj's like, I don't give a fuck, Let's go play Lego.
Yeah, it's just very sweet, and.
I like that it seems like, I mean, I know that Felicia is going back to city to be a performer again, but it also seems like there's gonna be like a very.
Found family kind of nature.
And because we'll talk about it, but that's like so much of what makes this movie so special, because we know at the very beginning of the movie that Felicia Adams family are wealthy homophobes and that there isn't much support to be had there.
So by the end, you know, they are.
All co parenting the most nineteen nineties looking child I've ever seen in my life.
That's true. That's true. That like just a little bit later. If this movie had been made later or earlier, I can't do math, it would be Ryan Philippe Like that is kind of yea. The vibe that this kid has Mark Holmes, I think is the actor's name.
The hair, the clothes, like the.
Stripe shirt, the chunky sneakers, like I think he's got cargo shorts. Like it's very yeah, Like, and you know what, if it's been made a few years later, you would have had like the Zelda trifle. It has been the green Zelda Triforce T shirt, the cargo shorts, black sneakers. That's that's the kid. We would have had their.
Child uniform of the day.
Yeah. Then we see Mitzi, Bernadette and Felicia in Drag climbing a mountain a reference to I think Fleicia saying like, I want to climb this mountain kings something as a queen and then Bernadette was like, oh, a cock and a frock on a rock. So I think that they're fulfilling that dream.
The prophecy has been realized.
Yes, there's something so interestingly patriotic about this movie, like Australian patriotic, where so many components of it are celebrating Australian history and culture and not always I think nailing it exactly. They you know the I think the treatment of Aboriginal characters is a little dismissive and stuff like that. But you know that final Drag number where there's so many like iconic Australian elements. Yeah, I will survive with
a DIGGERI do. Is so lovely. It's my favorite number in the in the film is like hearing that sort of mashup and like then that like that. I think it's King's Canyon at the end. That was actually going to be Ularu. They want to do it on I forget what the there's an English language name for it, the something rock anyway, but they weren't able to shoot there because of like cultural concerns around the filming there, and so they went to this other location. But yeah,
there's just there's so much. There's so much Australia, and like, isn't it great to be Australian about this film?
Yeah, which is why I didn't realize, I mean until I was like looking into the background and watch this documentary how widely embraced it was, to the point where it was like, uh, there were references to Priscilla the bus in the Olympics when they came to Austria. You're like, oh, it's like it's loved like that. Like that's fascinating. Anyway, Sorry, I know, I know the recap's almost over, but it is interesting. Yeah, that like sort of underlying patriotism that on.
You know, the first ten years I was watching this movie, I just didn't know enough about Australia to even recognize.
Yeah for sure.
Okay, so the movie basically ends where they're back at the hotel. Bernadette reveals that she has decided to stay in Alice Springs for a while with Bob, and again we're like, you can do better, Bernadette.
She's vulnerable, she'll dump him, I hope. So Trombone just died or whatever.
But yeah, but they say goodbye, and then Mitsy and Felicia go back to Sydney. They do the Abbess show, lip syncing to Mama Mia.
Here we go again, the second movie this year that ends with that song.
So there you go, yes, indeed, and then benj is in the audience watching gleefully the end. So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss.
And we're back. Where do we want to start the discussion today? I mean, I guess maybe a little bit of background, mm hmm, it would be appropriate.
So this movie was directed by Stephan Elliott, who was not out at the time this.
Movie came out, but is a gay director.
And I didn't know, yeah until watching this documentary how rooted this movie was in the drag scene that he was very much a like, huge fan of in Sydney in the eighties. We'll link to this documentary in the description because it is really a fun celebration of this movie, and that the character of Tick or Mitzi was based
on this famous Australian drag performer, Cindy Pastel. And so I mean, there's just like all of these fascinating just how this came to be, where you know, he was working in film by day and going to drag clubs by night and then eventually married it in this beautiful way. And he was also only thirty when he directed this, which always makes me mad.
Yeah, And I read that after this script at least the first d came together pretty quickly, after Stefan had the idea and wrote the screenplay and was trying to
get this movie off the ground. He and some producers were trying to get it financed, pitching it around, having a hard time getting the financing, which comes as no surprise because again the landscape, the media landscape, the global cultural landscape, the attitude toward queer people in this era, because this was the early nineties, which also I.
Mean, it was interesting listening to him talk about the reasons that he was being turned down for funding, because it sounded like, I mean, it was certainly in part because it was a queer story, but also he mentions that part of the criticism was that it was too funny, and so it was like, oh, sure, you can tell a queer story.
Maybe, but only if it's completely tragic.
Yeah, depressing, and there's not a moment of joy expressed throughout. And I don't know he is, you know, using some choice language to describe that process, but yeah, it was just like it. You know, it's like incredibly frustrating to be like, well, you know, maybe you we'll consider funding this if the characters don't have a happy ending or like don't experience joy, and.
You know, it's like fuck you.
Yeah, you know, you look at the landscape of what's happening around this time. I mean, mainstream is expecting a gay movie to be like Longtime Companion or Philadelphia, which I think was I think came out the same year or around the same time. There's so much there's just so much tragedy. It's hard to think of frothy gay comedies from the early nineties, you know, kind of understandably, like there's a lot of like really tragic stuff going
on at this point in history. However, boy, oh boy, you need to laugh you know, queer people were not all like doom and gloom all the time, but you wouldn't know it from the culture that was getting funded totally.
And then casting this movie was another a pill battle where they went out to several people. Any actors they approached were either not available or simply not interested. They didn't want to play a drag queen or a trans
woman or anything along those lines. And Terence Stamp, who ultimately got cast as Bernadette, talks about how terrified he was of playing this role and even you know, days into shooting, was still like, oh my god, I don't know if I can do this, and then describing like during one scene everything just kind of like clicked and he like stepped over the barrier and described just like feeling fearless and eventually like you know, embraced the role
and you know, loves the movie now. But and you know, part of the problem is that this is a movie about queer people and the cast is all sis had people question.
Mark, Yeah, as far as I know, you know, who knows what's truly in their hearts, in their private lives. But of course, you know, I love that this is a film with a trans character, but I don't love that it's played by as his man that is not actually played by a trans woman. On the other hand,
you know, there was no Janet Monk type. You know, the industry was not, let us say, nurturing trans talent in the early nineteen nineties, so you know, obviously those actors existed, but finding them and also getting funding for something requires having some amount of star power in there. And so Terreen Staff is, you know, this is somebody who had been in movies for a long time, Billy Budden then all the way up to Superman three four, one of the Superman's is so you know, this is
somebody who has a bit of a name. So I understand the need to get either Stamp or they went to Tony Curtis before him, and like what trans star could they have gone to at this point, because the industry and even the independent film scene was really keeping transactors down, was suppressing them, you know at that time.
And there's such a like, I mean, this sort of run of queer movies in the mid nineties that you sort of see that trend again and again. I know that, like it's impossible to encounter any article about Priscilla. That doesn't mention the parallels between Tu Wong Fu, which is, you know, for what it's worth, for all the annoying Reddit posts I saw, they were developed independently of each other. It is a you know, coincidence, but much the same.
You know where the movie was going with big names that were all as far as we know it sis head men. Yeah, it's like very much a product of its time. And and I mean my instinct is like, here is an opportunity to give a transactor a big opportunity and make a career. But it seems like the choice was, well, do we stand a better chance of getting funding if we put a star in it, which is really unfortunate kind of what is the word I'm looking for, like business d decision to make.
I would have loved to have seen. I think Calpernia Adams was working around this time, and you know, again not like a very famous, well known name, but I mean, there you go, there's a trans woman who I think would have been pretty astonishing in this role. Now I don't think she's the right age for that, but like I you know, I'm racking my brains to even think
of somebody obscure who could have played this character. And I cannot think of anybody who's being given opportunities, any transactress who is being given opportunities in ninety three ninety four are kidding me, like.
Which is really too bad because we know that Stephan Elliott, you know, certainly knew plenty of transperformers and plenty of drag performers because that.
Was what the story was inspired by. I don't know, it's difficult.
I don't want to come down on Stephan Elliott too hard because it is like a miracle that this movie was made.
At the time and in the climate it was made in.
But nonetheless, yeah, missed opportunity. But that's just you know. I think something that you see a bunch in this film is cultural rules that we kind of maybe take for granted, or at least have the privilege of having now just didn't exist. Like the taboo around dead naming, I don't think was as widely known. I mean, obviously trans people understood why that was unacceptable then, but I think it was not looked at. I think it was still you know, by other queer people. It was just
kind of a joke to know somebody's dead name. Then it wasn't understood to be the taboo that it should have been.
Right.
So that's the thing about this movie where in some ways it's ahead of its time and kind of helped push the needle forward as far as queer representation in mainstream media.
Yeah, it's a brave film in a lot of ways, but at the.
Same time, it's still very of the time where it's you know, casting assists actor to play a trans character, and it's the thing where it's like, Okay, if they need a star, I get that, but like, then why not cast the role of Mitzi because Hugo Weaving at the time was basically unknown. So like, cast as star for Mitzi and then cast an unknown you know, if you're gonna have an unknown actor anyway, cast an unknown transactor for the role of Bernadette.
Right.
But at least this movie to bring up Tu wang Fu again, because that's a movie, as we discussed on that episode, doesn't seem to understand the distinction between drag performers and trans women, whereas this movie does understand that distinction. But again, it has the trans character played by a sis actor. We also see several examples of you know, Sis had people being horribly queer phobic toward these characters
and that being framed as a bad thing. But then there are many other examples in the movie of bigotry that is not condemned by the movie, such as Felicia constantly dead naming and being transphobic toward Bernadette, or white characters being cruel to Cynthia.
For example.
So it's a step in the right direction, but it's also doing some very outdated, problematic things.
Yeah.
Boy, that's Cynthia character is so complex. At least my feelings about her are very complex, because personally, I do regard the character as being pretty racist and misogynists. However, I've spoken to a lot of other Filipino people who say, no, we actually I think she's funny and I like her. Yeah, I get why she's she's tropy, and I get why it's you know, a negative depiction, but also it's a
lot of fun to see her. And somebody compared it to how a lot of queer people just really love Cruella de Ville for example, or you know, there's like there's corell Is probably not a great example because she's not queer herself. I don't explicitly at least a.
Queer quoted villain like all those Disney movies are.
Yeah, Hollywood Montrose is another one that I look at like, this is a problomatic character being played by a as far as I know, heterosexual actor Mishaque Taylor. But I just I love of Hollywood Montrose and the Mannequin movies. He's just so much fun. It's trophy and problematic, but he's just soonat fun to watch.
I saw Mannequin for the first time this year and was blown away. My god, what incredible characters.
Oh yeah, just like, here's the thing that Hollywood and that Cynthia and Priscilla have is there scene stealers. They're chewing the scenery, they're having such a good time, that are running circles right or made characters, they're just stealing
the scene. And you know, if I was seeing myself in that role as I am with, you know, in a role like Hollywood, Like there's a lot of that I see about him that is aspirational, I'd be like, yeah, cool, good for you and the fact that you are playing into some really negative tropes but also seems like you're having a good time with it, and it's not like, you know, this is where I think they differ. Hollywood feels affectionate and Cynthia actually feels like this feels like
a malicious depiction. And I've heard Stephen Ellie olertefin Elliott talk about like they were trying to send up they were trying to make fun of racism. But I think that it perhaps lacks some clarity for sure.
Yeah, yeah, I.
Was fascinated to hear that in your video, and I like the I mean, I'm never gonna argue a reclaiming like it's not my place at all, but I did see that there was there also has been like pretty significant criticism of it, Like at the time the movie was released, pulling from I believe scholarly journal Wikipedia here, but there was a representative from the Center for Filipino Concerns named Marginson, who you know, said more of what
I sort of thought might be the criticism around this character, saying that she was portrayed as quote a gold digger, a prostitute, an entertainer whose expertise is popping out ping pong balls from her sex organ what a phrase, a manic, depressive,
loud and vulgar, the worst stereotype of the Filipina. She argued that by portraying Cynthia in this manner, the filmmakers were quote violently killing the dignity of Filipino women, something she feared that would lead to quote more violence against us. So there was also I mean, there has been plenty of around the character as well. I understand the argument for reclaiming not gonna you know, obviously be like you
can't do that, but I feel for this character. And it also it's so weird because we just recorded an episode about my best friend's wedding. Bear with me here, But how like I think that Cynthia, for all of her campiness, like her presence, also serves to make Bob look, I think worse in a way that the movie doesn't really seem to recognize or have an interest in examining, because we see him basically like he locks up her stuff, He's like kind of holding her hostage in the house.
He's dismissive to her at every turn. It's made to be a joke. And then you know, when she escapes question Mark to do the Pingpung dot MP three routine, he like yanks her off stage and it's like very physically violent, way fully abusive, and then when she leaves that's also made to be like a joke, like she's being unreasonable.
We're like I would.
Leave, you know, And yeah, what I want from here's my rewrite of Cynthia that I would have pitched where I involved in this movie, which I want a scene instead of her like storming out and leaving, I would want like a little more intimate scene between her and Bernadette where like it's the day after. They're like Bernadette's just drinking coffee by herself and Cynthia comes over and she like drops the act and she's like, look, I just married this guy because I needed the immigration status
and I can't do this anymore. I'm exhausted. I'm getting out of here. You can have them. Good luck to you, and like so that Cynthia is not like this cartoon character, because all the other characters are so well like realized, just some moment where it's like Cynthia knows what's going on. She's not like this hyper sexual freak and she's just like, yeah,
all right, this is my act. I'm going back to Sydney and I'm going to seek my fortune out there, and you know, like I want to see Cynthia and Bernadette realize that they are equals or peers in some way, and then they're just like these ships that are crossing in the night. And Cynthia wants Bernadet. That's life, Bernette, Cynthia's life, Okay, cool, Now she's a person. We don't get that, No, we don't.
You know, that's a way to bring, you know, potentially bring Bob and Bernadette together in a way that feels a little less icky. If Bernadette is like standing up for Cynthia, like, look, if you don't want to be married to her, that's fine, but you can't treat her like that, and Bob having to recognize and at least
acknowledge how he's acting. It doesn't absolve him anything. I think that, you know, Bernadette Anthea should ditch him personally, but like, I don't know, I was a little like it feels very of its time that Bob's behavior specifically goes so unexamined because after this sort of like run of him being only abusive to his wife, which we're not supposed to care about because of all these heavy
racial and gender stereotyping that Cynthia has. He just turns to you know, he turns to the gals and makes a little joke. He's like, well, you know, some days you just shouldn't wake up. And then he's like the primary romantic interest of the movie.
And you're like, it's it's naturally annoying.
Right because they join in on like the racism and misogyny that both Bob is hurling at Cynthia and that the movie is because they you know, they talk about her like she's property that Bob should have quote unquote sold her off. And to me, it's a reminder that not everyone who belongs to a marginalized community will automatically show solidarity or allyship to other marginalized communities.
Unfortunately.
For example, there is a history of white queer people being racist. There's a history of cis gay people being transphobic. You know, we see examples of both in this movie. And it's not as though we're seeing something unrealistic, unfortun Really the problem is the movie presents that but doesn't challenge it or frame it as a bad thing.
I think the best you can say, and this is not absolving it is hey, it's the nineties, Like this is just reflecting some very common attitudes that would I think evolve into like the edgy racism of South Park.
But you know, the thing of like the man having some possession of the wife, and especially in like a more rough and tumble sort of context like the Australian outback, and you know, the casual homophobia, the casual raises, the casual mibsogy, and that's just you know, hey, it's the nineties. Not good. It's not a good thing. But like the conversation about hey, maybe let's not do this, like would have been greeted with like such an eye roll of like,
oh boy, here come the politically correct police. Right.
But it's like if they wouldn't even have had to do that, if they had just written this character better, like if they'd written Cynthia Bettery, they wouldn't have needed to have to address all the horrible Like I don't know, I mean whatever, it's nineteen ninety four, and I know that it's like putting twenty twenty four morals on a nineteen ninety four movie as a non starter, but it's
even for nineteen ninety four. I feel like you know there was room for improvement because it was criticized at the time as well.
Exactly. Yeah, No, you know who knew that it was racist was people who were the object of that kind of racism there right, They could have told you it wasn't like a discovery waiting to be made.
The positive things that I will say, you know, for the Bernadette Bob relationship, although I don't care for Bomb, is that I was, you know, I guess, like on the analysis pleasantly surprised that, first of all, that our only trans character has a love story, which I feel like is you know, certainly a rarity at this time, and also that the oldest character has a love story, because that also feels very unusual, and people over a certain age don't have access to romance stories in successful
iconic movies. So I appreciated those aspects, but the actual the guy himself wasn't a fo Yeah.
I would have loved you know, Bob could maybe have been redeemed somewhat for me if he had some quick scene with Bernadette where he's talking about Cynthia and he's like, I fucked up, you know, just something where he's you know, instead Bernadt just calls him a gentleman, but you know, some like awareness from him of like, you know, I got into a shitty situation there, and I could have
done it. I wish I could redo. I wish I could make up for what I did wrong there and without realizing, and he starts doing nice things for Bernadette and then the two of them eventually. I don't know, I'm writing this whole. It's a completely different movie at this point.
But you just have to write another movie, I think, Matt, it's you know.
What, it's the Alan story, and we see what Alan's been up to for the last thirty years. Yeah, and he encounters Bernadette and Bob out in the desert or something.
And you know, I forgot to revisit this. I know that when I watched this movie and talked about it a couple of months ago, I had just refreshed myself on it. A lot of what we're talking about is course corrected in the.
Big musical adaptation.
It's not a into one, and I'm trying to remember what the specific changes were. But for those that have seen the musical, please let us know, because there were deliberate changes to sort of nineteen ninety four elements of this movie to adapt it for the stage. Transactors are in the main cast. I mean there's that I definitely remember.
I think that there were plot elements adjusted as well to give Cynthia a fuller character, and I believe flushing out the character of Marion a little more as well. So anyways, if you've seen the show, I would love to see this on stage. I want to see a bus inside of a building.
It reminds me of there's this point in the nineteen seventies where Broadway got very like kind of high on its own supply of like scenery and set pieces and revolving stage, isn't it, you know, even into the nineties
with the helicopter and the chandelier. But there's this musical in the seventies called on the twentieth Century Limited or the two Century Limited that had like a giant train set piece, Like that's kind of what the giant, glittery, gleaming bus in the Priscilla Stage musical must feel like when it was coming through Los Angeles. The Priscilla the Musical.
This would have been like twenty eleven or twelve. Maybe I was working as an event photographer at the time, and I was hired to shoot the red carpet, the step and repeat outside I think it was the Pantagius wherever it was playing in LA, And I remember, like I shot the Red Carpet, and you know, it's that whole like nightmare scenario of like all the photographers like shouting everybody's name, look at me, look at me, all right over here. And at one point Willim walks through.
Will and the drag We knew a lot of people know from Drag Race and a lot of other appearances in LA and other shows, and as far as I know, Willim had no connection to this show and not done
anything with it. And the story that I was kind of getting from like William just talking to other people on the Red Carpet was he just saw that there was this red carpet happening, and like as a drag personality, just like kind of walked his way onto it and then just home afterwards, just saw like, oh, the drag thing. I'll just walk my way on the air and then
walk off. I don't know if that's one hundred percent the situation, but that's like what I was understanding from like the gossip that he was giving to the other photographers who were there.
That's incredible.
Yeah, it does look like a great Like these songs are so good, you know, same thing with Mama Mia. It's just like an excuse to like hear songs that you love to hear and see some really fantastic costumes.
Yeah, and this won the Academy Award for Costumes and rightfully so, I think, like for all these movies' faults, it is pretty amazing how well and how successful and beloved this movie was instantly it wasn't. I mean, it's considered a cult classic, but I kind of hesitate to even call it a cult classic because it was a huge mainstream success when it came out. It was like one of the highest grossing movies that had ever come out of Australia ever.
And it centered around queer characters, and you know, the flaws are the flaws.
But I think that that is really cool and you know, lad, I would imagine to other movies and just like you know, a point of success of like here is a queer movie by a queer director. Let's put money behind more projects like this, which is stop and go over the years, but that in itself is really cool because this movie was made for less than two million dollars and made back its budget like fifteen times.
Yeah, I think, you know, for better for worse. Something nice about Australia is that it doesn't have the same moral panic as the US around drag. I mean, especially in recent years. But I think just like with panto shows and drag and camp in the UK, in Australia it's much more of a fun and sometimes this is you know, a negative thing, like you know, people who are gender non conforming are minimized or seen as pure
entertainment rather than as full human beings. But you don't have like the panic off like oh no, a man in a dress, save the children, shield their eyes, you know. I think that's how you can have drag in the ceremonies of the Olympics and Kylie Minogue singing this ab a song and paying tribute to this, like it becomes this national icon like for US it's like Bruce Springsteen
or something in the US. And I love that in Australia they have like this national pride in drag culture and that's you know, I look at that as a queer person I'm like, that's, you know, part of my culture that everybody's like celebrating. And imagine, imagine the US Olympics even today. Imagine you know, we're gonna get the Olympics. I think in two years in la or maybe four whatever it is, four or four years. Yeah, I the uh from both of you when I mentioned that you're dretting it already.
But I saw that a few months ago. In April twenty twenty four, the director Stephan Elliott announced that work on a sequel was underway, with the original cast reprising their roles, which is no offense.
How I found out how Terence Stamp was still alive. He's like eighty six.
He's alive, He's kicking. And I don't know if the movie will happen or not, but I'd be interested to see updates that they hopefully make as far as you know, eliminating the racism and the casualness with which Felicia is dead, naming Bernadette, all that kind of stuff. And we've kind of touched on this a little bit, but the way Alan and the other Aboriginal characters are not at all characterized. They're mostly just there's set dressing for these three main
white characters. Yeah, this is happening after a scene in which Felicia starts to tell what seems like it's going to be a very anti native joke. So like these characters attitudes toward anyone who is not white is abhorrent and on full display.
Which fikes like the Australian nationalism a little yes, a side eyed, because Australia has certainly colonized quite a bit in its death and so to you know, be dismissive.
Towards indigenous people and just really anyone who isn't white and then be like in Australia is the greatest country ever.
You're like, okay, I tried to like map that onto like an American story, and you're like, yeah, not awesome. But then also, you know, there is the argument for like, you know, having a drag show about Australia being this like.
Inclusiveness that you don't normally see.
Very complicated, but yeah, in general, I mean, I guess I just really wish that Alan got on the bus. I know, he was such an interest and I feel like we got to know him a little bit better than we got to know other characters in these like
stopovers on this road journey. And I wonder if there was a draft of this script where he joined the crew, it would have been you know, wouldn't have you know, resolved the way that this movie treats non white people in general, but it would it would have helped, would have helped to actually include him.
I would love for a sequel to really lean into the Aboriginal culture and to blend. Because we get just a little hint of it. We get the digerido, we get some Aboriginal language, some singing in this sort of remix of I will survive. But if we get like fully, you know, an Aboriginal approach to gender, like and performance, and are like merging with more you know, European Western
kind of traditions, and we see those two things. I mean, I what a great opportunity for some conflict intention too, for Native people to say, we've been doing you know, we've had our own attitudes about gender and sexual oritation identity for thousands of years, folks, and so this is our approach. And we're going on a road trip now, you know, like a road trip to the big city. Like it's going in the other direction. I don't know, whatever it could be, but boy, oh boy, I would
love to see it. I don't know that's Stefan Elliott's story to tell. Maybe he's an ep on that's kind of a project. But I would love to just hand the reins over to some great Aboriginal writers and directors and see where they take it.
Yeah, I just I am curious to see We're a sequel with Go and I hope that. I mean, at very least it does seem because there were changes made to the musical that Stephan Elliott is.
Not like closed off to, you know, acknowledging.
Where their shortcomings in the original text. Have more nice things to say about the movie say them I really love, I mean, for all of their faults, I really appreciate, like how wildly different that Bernadette and Tick and Adam or Mitzi and Felicia are, and that all of the conflict between them, you know, it just is very organic. Sometimes it's like a generational conflict that is going on.
Sometimes it's a personality clash, like I don't know, it is just so fun to watch them together, and especially with the relationship with Bernadette and Felicia, I think that that's like a really interesting and thoughtfully written friendship.
Outside of the fact that Felicia like just repeatedly.
Dead naming Bernadette, you do get a glimpse of like Bernadette retaliates, but it's not clear that Felicia's actually learned a lesson because it continues to happen to the very end.
Of the movie. It's the last line, come on, it's ridiculous.
That is the one area where I wish Felicia had done a little bit more growing up, Like if right, if he was driving off and said Bernadette, and like it was the first time he called it by a proper name, and that would have been such a better ending.
Come on. But there were moments with those characters that I appreciated, I mean, you do, I think, like the really lowest point of the movie is when Felicia is attacked by the angry mob, which obviously was reflective of how queer people were brutalized in Sydney, and there were a lot of examples sort of given throughout the documentary we'll be linking to of how that reflected, you know, real life at that time, and that Bernadette steps up
and puts the fact that she doesn't really like Felicia aside, and they have a moment and they I don't know. I appreciated some moments worked, and that unfortunately was undercut by Adam Felicia's complete.
Lack of growth when it came to dead naming.
And then with Mitty I really liked, I mean just the when I was like returning to watch this movie earlier this year, like you always sort of expect.
Marian to be not who she is, Like you don't.
I never am expecting for her to be like loving and accepting, just because of how you know, how the world is and how we've seen characters act in this movie towards the girls leading up to this point. I think it's really cool to see, you know, that happy ending for Mitty and that you know this whole that all these anxieties that are expressed throughout the movie of like will I be accepted? Will I be able to
be a parent and do this job? And the answer is of course you can, and that Benji is such a sweetheart, and also a little Mary Kate and Ashley.
Of like do you have my boyfriend? Do you have my boyfriend? I think it is sweet, you know, and something that you weren't seeing in movies very often.
And you get the flip side of that as well, with the understanding that you know, Bernadette was rejected by her family and that Adam has a deeply complicated relationship with his mom where he's like, I'll take the bus money, but we're never going to be close, you know. Like you see the sort of wide array of how these characters interact with their own families and all of the struggles they have, and I thought it was you know, I mean, not perfect, but pretty well done. Yeah.
We also see that flashback of Felicia slash Adam telling the story of how when Adam was a little boy, his uncle tried to sexually abuse him, and Adam recalls this memory with laughter because like he pulled the plug of the bathtub and whatever.
We turned the tables on his abuse are yeah.
Yeah, but it's like interesting way to frame a story about an attempt at sexual abuse, like child sexual abuse. I don't know if there were certain examples where this movie felt like it was taking a very serious situation and like making light of it in a way that felt tonally dissonant and weird, and like I understand, like adding comedy in an attempt to like make a serious topic more palatable or like finding humor, and I mean,
you know, tragedy plus time equals comedy. But like the way this movie handled some of those examples, I was like, Okay, I guess.
I don't feel comfortable being like that works or it doesn't, because I do sure appreciate that it's coming from, you know, a situation where I think, you know, Stephan Elliott is setting you up for a very tragic reveal and then Adam gets the upper hand, and yeah, I don't know. I mean, I definitely would understand if that doesn't play for everyone, but I also understand why it does.
Plays like a cathartic win which I feel like.
The characters in this movie at different points, you know, because there are the real life queer phobia and homophobia and transphobia of the world is constantly you know, basically following them around and is sometimes inside of the bus itself.
But you do have like a series of moments in this movie where I think, as an audience member and just understanding the time this movie came out, you expect something horrible to happen, and then the character's triumph and that's cathartic, and yeah, moment to moment, I don't know, you know, I get that it doesn't always work, but I don't know.
Yeah, I think the triumph at the end, you know, it's certainly not saying like, isn't child abuse hilarious? I think that we're coming from a dark place with a lot of the humorous situations, and you're right that there is a catharsis of we came out on top to you know, the extent that we could have in this situation. You know, whether it's that flashback or I don't know, find getting the chosen family at the end, there's the gay bashing where the basher gets beaten up by Bernadette.
There's the woman in It's not in kouber Peedia, it's in Broken Hill, where the woman in the bar is like, no, you can't. Your kind isn't welcome here, and Bernadette has this incredibly off colored joke that everybody laughs at. And I guess, to me, the question is is the movie punching down? And I don't think it is. I think it's actually punching up and successfully most of the time.
I tend to agree. There is the portrayal of working class, small town people kind of painted with a very broad brush of being like, they're not smart, they're closed minded, bigots, things like that, And I mean that is a stereotype that is to some degree rooted in reality, but to paint all people like that with that broad stroke, which I guess is kind of subverted with Bob a little bit.
But like and the fact that we know that Adam is from a fabulously wealthy family who are also openly homophobic.
I mean, we don't get but we don't get it as much time. That's sort of like a flash yeah scene.
Yeah. Ultimately, you know, I get the sense that Adam, his good looks and his money have insulated him from a lot of suffering that the other characters may be very familiar with. And so you know, it's not awesome that he gets knocked around a little bit at one point,
but he experiences a gay bashing. It is terrifying. And then I really do love the you know, I think that has to happen so that we get the scene where Bernadette has that wonderful line, don't let it drag you down, let it toughen you up, and it sucks that as a minority, you do have to make that choice to either be dragged down or to toughen up. And it's not always easy to do. Yeah, exactly, but
you know, look, sometimes that is the choice. Either you can wallow forever or you can grate your teeth and power through it, sometimes with the help of other people.
Yeah.
I love that scene, Like let it toughen you Up is something that it sucks that you have to do it, but you do.
Yeah, And I do appreciate that. I wish this happened to a greater degree, especially between Felicia and Bernadette. But this trip, you know, strengthens their bond. They realize that they need each other for just support and love and safety, and that this trip brings these friends closer together in a beautiful way.
It really is the like it's the perfect road trip movie. It's just like it's so Joseph Campbell, and it's like, you know, the hero's journey of these characters. And I know the comparison is often made Too Wang Fou. I really do think, you know, there's a lot to recommend about Tou Wong Fu. There are some things to recommend about Too Wong fou and I think that this movie really out does most other road Like I'm trying I think of a road trip film that I like as
much as this one. I can't think of anything.
My tops are little Sun Sunshine, and I would classify Mad Max Fury Road as a road trip. Okay, Similarly through the Australian Outback, I think is where the.
Yeah it's I rewatched Yeah, because I saw Furiosa the same week that I rewatched this, I was like, Oh, Australian outback road trip movies, you know, they come in all genres.
Yeah, you know, talk about like Joseph Kandler, like the Dan Harmon story circle, like the journey back to our point of origin having changed. Like it is so clear the parallels between Priscilla and Fury Road are so interesting now that you mention it. It really does match up to a lot of those plot beats that we expect from a road trip movie from a really well tightly plotted, eight part structured kind of story. It really hits them at kind of the same points, doesn't it.
Yeah, I think so, yeah, Yeah, there's I mean, there's no doubt there's I totally understand why this movie is a classic.
There's so much to love about it.
The last the just like a moment where just speaking to your point, Matt about the resilience of these characters.
After the bus is uh, you know, graffitied with slurs.
There's just like that one moment with Mitsy tick something akin to like, you know, you always think it's going to get easier, but it still hurts every time, and it's just a passing moment and within five minutes, you know they've moved on. They're painting the bus allegedly lavender like they're you know, a singing exactly.
But you have those sort of like moments of.
Reflection that I feel like really speaks to that this is a queer movie from a queer director, because there are plenty of movies centered around queer people that come out in the nineties that.
Are written and directed by straight people. And there's like a dissonant element to it.
And I think like when Stephan Elliott hits, he hits and when he missed his evisus, but that's you know, the natrue.
Can you imagine if they had done this movie just a little bit differently, Like I can one hundred percent see some like Grant Awarding body being like you need you need a straight character to get the audience in, like if they had like a fourth character on the bus who is like they're straight. I don't know. It's like now I'm thinking of like meat Loaf from Spice World, but like there's some straight character in the mix there who's yeah, you girls crazy? Oh yeah yeah. Metaf is
their must driver in space. I know this because it came out on VHS when I was working at a video store and we had like a list of like five movies that we could play, is like Armageddon and like all these like action films, and the only two I could stomach were The Pro Shot of Cats and uh and Spice World so many a top. I put Spice World on because I couldn't stomach any other any other thing in the on the on the approved list for what was it, Strawberries?
Okay, yeah, god, I need to rewatch Spice World. It's been too damn long. I'm saying, what a what a treasure.
I would say, give yourself permission to have the finger on fast forward because there's some bits that's like all right, just get me to the next music, get me hearing the next song. But I would say the opening. The opening of Spice World is I think one of the I wouldn't put in the top ten, but it's it's an upper tier opening of a movie with the music in that and the finale is a lot of fun. There's a moment where, oh my god, I love it
so much. There's a moment where a woman gives birth and the Spice girls are all crowded around this woman who's literally just given birth, and one of them says, that's real girl power, and it is such an incredible moment. I love it so much. Every time I see a woman do something Amazican movie, I think that's real girl power.
Nice feminism is such a trip, like what happened to You're like, what are you saying?
What are you on about? It's great?
Yeah, don't anyway, So that's what's going down is if you like, if you like the soil, liquid to the desert, check out Spice World. Wonderful takeaway Yeah, two bus movies. Yes.
My other takeaway is ultimately, and to not a huge degree, but this is a story about fathers and sons, but a really like endearing one where it's kind of flipped as far as like what you would normally see as far as like a queer child not sure if they're going to get the acceptance and approval of their parent, and then we get this flip, and you know, it also happens in the way that we see it represented in this movie as far as the parent wondering if you know, his child will accept him as a drag
performer and a gay man and things like that, and the kid is absolutely fine with it. And it speaks to how ridiculous it is that there's all this like anti drag and anti trans legislation in the US and elsewhere that it's they're justifying it as far as like, but the kids protect the kids, and it's just like, if you just don't teach kids hate, and he'll be fucking fine with it.
Oh yeah, it's wild because there's an episode of Alice, the sitcom from like the mid seventies, where she's really worried that her son is going to find out that her friend is gay, and at the end of the episode she finally she like sits them down. She's like, all right, I need to let you know there's something that you need to know about this guy, and the kids like yeah, and like I thought, yeah, that's that's it. That's always the situation.
The kids are like so yeah, yeah, exactly, And at the end it's like, yeah, extremely clear that Benji is like better off now because like his family has like tripled in size overnight, so.
Many people to play legos with, Like, what more do you want as a kid?
Is fun?
People to play legos with? Who love you? Come on?
I do wonder like tick is tick slash mitzi. As far as I can tell, this is like her main bread and butter is doing drag and now she's got to raise a kid on this on this income. Now, I know the nineties are different and the economics are different, and we're not all spending like ninety percent of our income on rent and in those days, right, But you know, becoming a parent isn't just you know, assuming the role
of parenting full time. There's a lot of work that this character's about to take on, and you know that's not what this movie is. But yeah, I do, like it's kind of like there's some movies where I'm like, what happened the next day? Like Ghost is very much like I think about that all the time. With the movie ghosts, Like what right the day the next day after ghosts? Like they call the police at the end of that film, and you know there's all this stuff
that happens, like somebody gets killed. Anyway, what's the next day after? You know, they all get back to Sydney, and you know, I would love to see like that kid's first day at school at his new school in Sydney or whatever, maybe his homeschool, who knows whatever?
Another spinoff we need and addition to the Alan spinoff?
Yeah, yes, does that?
You would have anything else to say about Priscilla Queen of the Desert, Not really, just that I love this cast.
I mean, Hugo Weaving is in several of my favorite movies a La the Matrix and Lord of the Rings. I love that he went on to have a career where he was like in these like huge blockbuster, high grossing franchises. I also love him in Fifa Vendetta. I love Guy Pearce. He is one of my crushes. Uh he's so handsome. Terence Stamp. He plays a hilarious character in one of my favorite movies, bow Finger.
Oh my God, I welcome to Mine Think. Oh my god, I love that film.
It's so good. It's so good, we've got to cover it. I know, does anyone want a Bowfinger episode? Let us know?
Directed by Frank Oz the uh yeah, the Piggy Like, what do you have to do here? Yuh yeah?
Anyway, so great cast and yeah, I really like this movie despite its flaws.
I will say this is what I you know, always tell people about Priscilla is it is a great movie to watch with friends, like watching a group, because the music's so great and the dance is so great, that mood is great. It is a fantastic movie to see in like a huge group, like if there's like a movie's in the park or just on midnight film or and I just want to throw it out there if anybody wants to organize a big screening at a venue for Priscilla Queen of the Desert, fly me out to
introduce to apprecio whatever. I love this film. It is so great to see as a mass group experience. It's just one of those films that really like just begs to be seen with three hundred people. Yeah.
I would absolutely love to see this movie with a crowd. Oh my god, it's a classic. It's a damn classic. It's I can't believe it's thirty years old. This year's wild, and I mean would I also would.
Love to see the musical Holy shit.
Yeah, if you're a fan of this movie, definitely check out the documentary as well. It's a very it's a fun, complimentary companion piece.
Indeed, does this movie pass the Bechdel test?
I already made a case for when they drive Priscilla, it passes. Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on if you count Mitzi and Felicia when they're like in their drag personas speaking to each other. If you consider that a pass I'm fine with it. Obviously, drag is a subversion of gender, so I'm like, yeah, I'm fine with that. I would consider their conversations a past.
It passes regardless, because Bernadette has conversations with Marian, brief conversation with Marion, and also sherl who she beats in that drinking contest.
So yeah, it's not the warmest interaction, but yeah, no, no, And.
I think her interaction with Mary it's pretty passing, you know, like what is the stage like big.
Or something like that.
But yeah, I mean it certainly does pass. And I yeah, I think regardless of where you land on that it passes.
I think his passage happens in sort of a blurry area of the gender spectrum, like it's somewhere I wouldn't say like I would say, maybe it passes, like the schmech Deel test, Like it's so it's so close.
Spiritually the clear pass. Yeah, yeah, the Schmechdel test. Fishould start introducing this, right, But.
What about our nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think I'll go like a three or three point five on this one. I appreciate its place in history and how it helped move the needle on queer representation in mainstream although, as we've discussed, there's some very of the time elements of it and also not of the time. Yeah, I mean
the racist and sexist portrayal of the Cynthia character. Justice for Cynthia, having the Aboriginal characters mostly just as scenery and backdrop while the focus is always on the white characters. I think I'll land on a three point five nipples.
I'll give one to Julia Cortez, who played Cynthia. I will give one to Alan Dargin Dargan who was an Australian musician and seems to be playing himself question mark in this movie because if you look on IMDb, his character is credited as Aboriginal man, but they call him Allan, which is that person's real first name. So I'm like, is he just amos himself? We're not sure, but one nipple to him. I'll give one nipple to my crush,
guy Peers. I hope he is not problematic. You always run the risk of saying you like a man and then you find out later that he's horrible, So hopefully that's not true. And I'll give my half nipple to Hugo Weaving.
I'll go three and a half in this as well. I mean on the movies, I like, it's higher than that.
But I think for all the reasons we've discussed today, it's a classic. It's a stepping stone movie that led to more thoughtfully inclusive movies. But there's so much to love about this movie, and I guess I will I will just leave it at that because we've been talking for an hour and a half, so I would give it three and a half. I'm gonna give one to Priscilla the Bus, who is recently discovered and is now going into a museum as is her right.
Wow, I'm going to give.
One to Julia car because I will give one to Stephan Elliott. And finally, I would like to give my last half nipple to a city pastel, who is the inspiration for Tick Slash MIDSI and is a cool testament to how this movie sort of captured a lot of the drag scene and characters and people that Stephan Elliott loved from his formative years and put them in a classic movie, which is always cool.
Yeah, Matt, what do you think?
You know, I think I'd be inclined to assign it to nipples. And one of them goes to the three heroes on the bus and they can distribute it like a like an evenly broken up pie chart amongst themselves, and the other to the Australian outback itself and you know, rising rising like ayers rock above the desert is the center of that nipple going out to Australia, just the country for you know, embracing this film.
Mm hmmm, hell yeah, amazing. Well, Matt, Thank you so much for being with us.
This was so much fun, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on and giving me a reason to talk about this movie. It's been a big part of my life ever since I discovered it. Thanks thanks to RuPaul on vh one.
Wow, I love that.
Where can people follow you online? Check out your work? Tell us everything.
Yeah, so I've got a video from a couple of years ago that i did on YouTube about this film. I make videos on YouTube about the making of movies and television from a queer perspective, so you can find me. Just search for my name Matt Baum on YouTube. Just had one about Howard Ashman and the making of Little Shop of Horrors and The Little Mermaid.
Incredible work.
Thank you. And I'm working on one now about my so called life the TV show, so that'll be coming soon. And you can also get my book I wrote about the history of queer characters on sitcoms. That's the books called High Honey. I'm Homo and I just turned a year old, So yeah, I talk about gays on sitcoms. And I've also got a podcast called The Suws of Paris, where I chat with queer folks about entertainment that's important to them, So you can find the Seers of Paris
wherever you listen to your podcasts. Nice, amazing, Yay, thank you so much, a pleasure, Come back anytime, happy to.
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And with that, let's let's hop on the bus. Let's go well, let's go back to Sydney and raise our young son, shall.
We yes while singing Abba Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Boord. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash Bechdel Cast