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On the Bechda Cast. The questions ask if movies have women and them are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy zeffim vast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.
Hey Jamie, Hey Caitln, do you wanna drive in my mom's minivan three and a half hours away so that I can get access to important reproductive healthcare.
Sounds like a fun ramp to me. Let's go. Let's go. Wow perfect intro, no notes. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftis.
My name is Caylin Durante. This is our podcast where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. Today is a special episode for me at least. Yes, So we're talking about the movie Plan B, the one from twenty twenty one, because as I was searching Plan B, there are so many movies with that title. Yes, this is the twenty twenty one Plan B. I think a Hulu original film.
It is, which is very funny because I bundle my Hulu with my Disney Plus and so you can see a pierced dick on Disney Plus. Pretty cool, pretty awesome.
I have a lot of thoughts about that scene, but we'll get there.
I do too, So this is.
The movie about teens trying to get access to the morning after pill. Now the reason we're doing this movie, and we'll get into it in a moment. But I if you're listening to this, I guess just when it comes out or afterward. I have just gotten a hysterectomy, so I'll provide some more information about that. But I wanted to cover a movie about trying to get access to reproductive healthcare to line up with me getting a hysterectomy. So this is the Plan B episode and here to
talk with us about the movie. Is a sex educator, pleasure expert, and rom com critic. She's also the host of the podcast sex Ed with DP.
Actually the perfect guests for this.
I mean, hello, Yeah. This podcast has a series entitled rom Com Bomb where they go under the covers with a beloved rom com strip away it's hidden toxic messages and then rewrite the script on love and sex. Our guest is Danielle Bezilel.
Welcome, Hello, Thank you so much for having me. I am absolutely thrilled to be here to talk about my favorite things, which are sex education, emergency, contraception, and feminism.
Yay, let's go, let's go.
What is your relationship with this movie?
I really love this film. I saw it for the first time last year. It had come up on my kind of homepage on Hulu as the algorithm knows what we like a few times, and I was just very excited to get into it, to get cracking. And I think overall it's fantastic. Really enjoy many parts of it. I think the script is very funny. I really enjoy the realisticness of high schoolers trying to figure it all out and just trying to get access to their reproductive
rights that they deserve. And we also at SEXI with dB had on the actress kouhou Verma, who plays Sonny on an episode to talk about sex scenes and the way in which that minorities interact with their parents and around sexual identity and culture. And it's a very rich episode. So yeah, I really enjoy this film and can't wait.
To talk about it today.
Awesome, that's so cool that you had her on your show.
Yeah, she's very funny, very talented, and incredible singer. I don't know if you remember. There's a really a bos scene where she's singing in the car and I'm like, okay, all the phone. I need to get more information on that, and then learn that she is a trained singer and I've seen some of her clips and she's incredibly talented.
No big deal.
Yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie.
I had not seen this movie before, but I am a longtime fan of the director of this movie, Natalie Morales, who started as an actor. I believe this is her first directorial project. I could be wrong about that, but yeah, I think she's super talented.
You know.
I have my thoughts on the movie, which we will talk about, but yeah, I enjoyed the movie a lot. I know that we covered Gosh a year or two ago Unpregnant, which came out around the same time and has a similar theme, but I think this one took
the cake for me. We'll talk about it, but in general, you know, and I know, Danielle, like you are the expert on this, Like, even though there are parts of it that were imperfect for me, I just am glad that this genre of movie exists and that it you know, the creative control is being put into the hands of people with uteruses, and creatives with uteruses. Who are you know, just starting the conversation. So yeah, I laughed, I cried.
I like both.
There were some moments where I was like, the comedy's getting a little too broad for me, and I would just start to check out, and then something really sweet and beautiful would happen, and then I would be like locked back in. What was her history with this Caitlin?
I had not seen it before, and in fact I
picked it before. I was like, this is the movie that I'm going to have like line up with my hysterectomy experience before even watching it, because I knew that it was tonally light, which is something that I wanted, and that it was about people with uteruses trying to exercise autonomy over their bodies and their reproductive health, and since that has been my journey with trying to get a hysterectomy, I was like, Okay, thematically similar enough, because
the thing about movies about hysterectomies is that they don't exist except for Okay. I was like googling this. There are a couple, but they're either like TV movies that you've never heard of and can't access, or I think
there might be a documentary about it. Anyway, I did come across a nineteen ninety six TV movie entitled Maternal Instincts, in which, and I quote, oh no, a pregnant doctor's life is made hell by the deranged patient to whom she gave a hysterectomy without the patient's consent.
The histeror is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that description. Yeah, she's Louise.
So I was like, maybe not the vibe I'm going for, So yeah, I just decided to go with Plan B. It was a movie I wanted to watch. Anyway, We've gotten a number of requests for it, so that's why we're covering it. But yeah, I just wanted to talk a little bit more about this experience of me trying to get a history direct to me. One, I want to normalize a discussion like this, and two it's been
a very frustrating several decades. Also, if you don't know what a hysterectomy is, because I've discovered recently after telling a number of people I'm getting a hysterectomy soon, people are like, what's that.
I honestly, before you started talking about it with me, I misunderstood what the procedure actually was because it's not I mean, so much sex ed is so prescriptive aggressively so but yeah, the idea of choice barely ever comes.
Up for sure, So uh, what it is is that I am having my uterus removed. A hystectomy also might involve removal of the ovaries. I'm hoping that that doesn't happen because that will mean that I would go into immediate menopause. It will mean a significant shift to like my hormones and stuff like that, so I'm hoping they're able to leave my ovaries. It'll depend on how riddled with endometriosis all of those organs are. So this is
why I'm having the hysterectomy. I have dealt with horrible, horrible period pain ever since I started having periods when I was twelve years old. It is probably due to endometriosis, although I don't have an official diagnosis of that because.
Those are so hard to get.
Yeah, because you know, medical science doesn't give a shit about people with uteruses. And to be clear, we're using that phrase of people with uteruses on this episode because people will commonly talk about things like access to birth control, access to abortion, access to a hysterectomy as something that women get. But not all women were born with uteruses. Not all people who have a uterus and who might be trying to get birth control or a hysterectomy or
access to abortion or whatever are women. Obviously, we're not trying to reduce anyone to their body parts more or that. We just want to acknowledge the pretty cisnormative way that people, including a lot of medical professionals, talk about who has a uterus, who needs access to reproductive health care all of that. But anyway, So, I have wanted to get a hysterectomy basically ever since I started having periods, and I've been asking doctors about it since probably my twenties.
One because I want to eliminate this pain, and two because I famously do not want to have children and therefore do not need a uterus for any reason. So I was asking doctors about this and being like, is this an option for me? I have this horrible pain? And I got nothing but pushback from every doctor I talked to. They said it wasn't medically necessary for me to have a hysterectomy, despite the excruciating pain that I would describe to them.
It's like, what is medically necessary?
Then?
If I'm telling you that this is an absolute trash experience makes me so mad. I'm so sorry that you went through.
That and for so long too. Where I mean, I know we've talked about this, and you've talked about this on the show before, but how there is like I think, a false narrative about like we've come so far and it's like, well, no, You've been having the same conversation with doctors for literally decades and HM, again, it's just like there's a lack of choice, definitely.
So I would be like, well, I think I probably have endometriosis because my mom, both of her sisters, their mother all had to have hysterectomies because of endometriosis. So I'm like, it's probably the thing with me too. But I would talk to doctors about this and they'd be like, well, who knows if you have that, because it's really hard to diagnose, and then they would just leave it at that and like not try to diagnose it or anything
like that. So I would get pushed back about that, or they would say like, well, you'll change your mind about not wanting to have children, you know, all that classics. That is until I went to a doctor recently who said that a hysterectomy is on the table for me. Again, I still don't have an official diagnosis of endometriosis. They are just believing me about the pain I experience, and
they're believing me about not wanting to have kids. I think it helps that I have already gotten my tubes tied, which is a procedure I had done three years ago. I think that is sufficient proof for them that I don't want to have children, so they're like, yes, let's do the hysterectomy. So at the time of this recording, it has not happened yet by the time you're listening
to this, it will have happened on February twelfth. So that's why, again, I wanted to pick a movie to line up with the just theme of a story about a person with a uterus who is trying to and it is eventually able to exercise autonomy over their reproductive health. And again, I wanted it to be tonally light and fun because I wanted to like kind of reflect how
I feel about having this surgery. I know that a lot of people who get a hysterectomy do not necessarily feel the like joy and validation that I feel about it, and I fully recognize that, but for me, this is like a very validating thing. This is exactly what I've like always wanted. So I wanted to cover a movie that's like light and cathartic.
I also sorry, I just want to say, like, go you for like saying this in the public, Like this can be, you know, similar to periods. I feel like as a sex educator, I'm constantly talking to people about how they feel so much shame around their periods and around anything having to do with their reproductive health and
their sexual health. And I just think good on you for like being open and honest and transparent about what you're going through, because I just feel like people are going through similar things and it might be an isolating experience for people, and so I feel like the way that we combat stigma and shame is through educ and information. So that's what you're doing.
Yay, Hey yeah, Lit Kay kay, Lit, Wow, I'm a hero, brave.
No, But I mean it's even outside of reproductive rights you've been talking about just difficulty accessing basic procedures you need, going back to the sludge era.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
So for any listeners who don't know about sludge, if you're new here, If you're new here, sludge refers to wow, this is like six years ago now, because this happened in twenty nineteen where I had a gall bladder attack and was discovered to have quote unquote sludge in my gall bladder. Medical medical sludge yes, actually weirdly a scientific medical term. I would come to find out bone chilling,
and I had to have my gall bladder removed. So this is not my third pretty major surgery between gallbladder removal, tube tying, and now hysterectomy. So I'm a season and veteran. But the gallbladder thing was, I had like very bad insurance at the time. I had to drum through so many hoops just to get access to a very simple procedure that's like quite common. It took months and months and months of appointments and referrals and dead ends and
all kinds of nonsense. Where what should have happened is when I went to the er with like, you know, cruciating gallbladder pain. You know, in a country with socialized medicine, they would have been like, oh, yeah, this is what's wrong. Here's your surgery the next day.
It's also worth mentioning even places with socialized medicine like access can still be an issue even if financial isn't you know, if if the problem isn't finance, sometimes it's just doctors being gender prescriptive and making assumptions about your body too.
It's just definitely yeah, yeah, So I've been having difficulty accessing health care for years now, but now my uterus sludge aka presumed endometriosis.
Unfortunately, I feel like so many Daniel, I'm curious what your experiences of this, Like, I only learned what endometriosis was when I was having tremendous pain myself and was trying to figure out and think, I mean, I didn't have endometriosis. I had a horrific uti but the urgent care I went to was not listening to me, and so I was just in the internet trench as being like, what could this be? But I'd never heard endometriosis discussed
in any space as I'd been in. I think because of the shame stigma, and I got very poor sex ed.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me based on how terrible our sex that is, how unlikely we are to listen to women and people with uterus in particular when they're talking about pain. The average time it takes, and this is a huge range to receive an accurate diagnosis of endometriosis between four and eleven years. I've heard you know within that it's kind of like an eight year diagnosis journey, And yeah, that is a multi layered
issue as to why that's happening. I feel like, you know it's just one of the many conditions reproductive health conditions that aren't talked about enough. Doctors aren't trained on how to diagnose it, and doctors are also less likely to listen and pay attention to women and people with uterus is pain and so like that. You know, then you're talking about like all the other kind of intersectional
feminist lenses that we're going to go through. I'm sure in this episode of like you know, bipop folks are less likely to get diagnoses of reproductive chronic conditions, and so yeah, I just think it's it's a multi layered issue here.
For any listeners who don't know what endometriosis is, and Danielle, feel free to fill inity blanks or anything that I kind of have gotten wrong. But it's basically uterine tissue like uterine lining that would normally grow inside the uterus
and then be shed during your period. Endometriosis is when that grows outside of your uterus and like attaches itself to like the exterior of the uterus or your ovaries or other Like the doctor who is going through all of the possible things that might happen during my surgery, she's like, yeah, we find endometriosis sometimes on your appendix, so we might give you an appendectomy. We find endometriosis sometimes on your lower intestines. It might be on your
fallopian tubes. Like it can kind of grow anywhere in that general region and it causes intense pain, or it can especially during menstruation. At least that's been the case for me.
Yes, totally. And the exact cause of endometriosis unknown, right, Like, not enough money is going into research and scientific studies for it. I hope that is beginning to change. But yeah, the symptoms for folks can range and can be incredibly painful and can even cause folks to not even be able to like get up there in so much pain, or they'll have to miss school or work or you know, it's just it's just a really tough condition to have.
Yeah, I would have to miss school sometimes, especially when I was a teen. So for many years I was on some form of birth control that would curb the pain. But I was like, I don't want to do that forever, so heince Hys directed me. But yeah, when I was a teenager, I would miss school routinely. If I did go to school when I was on my period, I would often like throw up because I was so sick a feeling, and then I would have to be sent home like it was, It's been a horrible, painful journey.
What's really we just to talk about the movie at some point, I'm like, this is so interesting, though, I like, I've been thinking about this a lot, especially with your procedure coming up, Caitlin, of how much of this can be sort of like generationally passed on as deal with it, because when I was having really painful periods that luckily for me, is sort of ebbed as I got older, But I had really painful periods when I was young, and I remember being told by like relatives with uteruses
and school nurses with uteruses like that's just sort of what it is, and like do your homework, like and then on the other end, I think about young boys, which is the point about this movie I want to talk about, you know, and I mean boys as people with penises in this case. But how if you don't have a uterus and you're listening to this episode, keep listening because it's so important, Like because we're not educated
on each other's bodies. I feel like it just you know, engenders this real It makes it really easy to not empathize with people experiencing that pain because it's not treated as valid societally, and it means that often your sexual partners, Like I've had pain that I've described to sexual partners who I don't think we're like not empathetic people, but they just did not know what I was talking about, and it makes it really, I don't know, like it.
It is difficult to have that conversation when you're you have to educate someone while in tremendous pain like that shouldn't be the two hander.
Well, shall we take a break and then we'll come back and talk about the movie.
Let's do it.
And we're back. Thank you for indulging me as I talked about my endometriosis and uterus and periods and pain and all of that stuff. But again, we're trying to normalize it.
Yes, anytime, please.
It's important. It's you gotta what does this show for it? If not this exact purpose? True?
Okay, So the recap for Plan B twenty twenty one. We meet two girls, Sonny played by Kuhuverma and Loope played by Victoria Morales. They are best friends. Both live with rather overbearing parents, Sonny with her mom, who expects her to get perfect grades and to be very modest and well behaved, and Loupe with her pastor father who doesn't like her alt slash nos ring slash black lipstick aesthetic.
I wrote down this Christian hates hot topic. That's his whole vibe, that is his vies. There's one store this man hates. It is hot topic.
The girls head to school. Sonny tells Lupe that she feels very behind sexually. Other teens at school are having sex and she still hasn't had her first kiss. But she does have a crush on a boy named Hunter played by Michael Provost. But oh no, a mean popular girl named Megan is flirting with Hunter, so Sonny is like, oh no, how am I supposed to compete with that? Meanwhile, Loupe has a boyfriend, or what we think is a
boy friend. Not to spoil anything, but there seems to be a guy that she's been texting with named Logan, although they haven't met yet I r L. We also meet another classmate of theirs named Kyle played by Mason Cook, who he's presented as being Likedweebye. He's a magician. He's always talking about his church group.
He's a Christian magician.
Yeah, yes, so Chris Magic. I feel like that be a cool altering girl.
I wonder if Chris Angel ever called himself that, Chris.
Ma He's Yeah, Kyle's what we call a bit of a mind free Oh.
Wow, so true, so true. Okay, So we see all the teens in sex ed class where their teacher Rachel Dratch shows them a video that's.
Perfect casting, great casting.
Yes, the video is like promoting abstinence until marriage and it's particularly slut shamy toward women. And Sonny and Hunter start pointing out the sexist double standards of the video and they're kind of vibing. And then after class, loope wing woman's for Sonny and says, hey, Hunter, Sonny is throwing a party tonight, which she isn't except now she is, especially since Sonny's mom is out of town this weekend. So we cut to the party. Eventually Hunter shows up
and he and Sonny are vibing some more. Then Sonny gives herself a makeover after hearing that mean girl Megan saying some very rude things about Sonny.
I really enjoyed the soundtrack to this movie. I feel like when I was hearing it was just very early twenty tens coded to me, where like when fuck the Painoay is playing during a makeover sequence, You're just like, Yeah, this, whoever this director was was really raging in like twenty eleven for sure.
So she's feeling more confident now, although she sees Hunter leave with Megan and she's like wow, wah. Then she starts talking to Kyle the Magician, the Chris Magich, Chris you will. They have a heart to heart and then they have sex. And we'll go back to this scene because there's there's some notes to discuss here around consent, I would say, but we'll return to that they have sex. Kyle, feeling guilty that he just had premarital sex, runs off,
and Sonny kind of reunites with Loupe. They pass out on the couch and we cut to the next day. Sonny tells Lupe that she had sex. Lupe assumes that it was with Hunter, and for whatever reason, Sonny doesn't correct her. Then she goes to p and the condom she and Kyle used falls out of her vagina and now she's worried she might be pregnant, since it was like sitting there all night.
I had this thought where it's like she she does think she might be pregnant, but she also thinks she might be gregnant, which means that maybe the better name for this movie would have been playing g there. So true, but that's you know, mistakes are made in every production.
And it's really weird that that kid's name is Kyle because his name should have been Greg.
He's very greg coated.
What am I missing something about this Greg? What's going on?
No, there's just a Sometimes people think that pregnancy is called a pregnancy, but it's actually called a Gregnancy.
Actually, Danielle, I'm curious, like this actually is relevant to your Alina study.
I'm following, I'm following.
Have you seen that? Okay, I'm not joking out. Have you seen that viral video from it got at least ten years ago that is composed of like Yahoo answers questions. I mean, I feel like we should just send you the video. But it's a list of questions about pregnancy from mostly since men, and it is right.
I think I know there is a version, am I? So it's two different I understand.
So is just a bunch of people misspelling the word pregnant and then one of them is gregnant. So that has just caught on, understood and.
Also just speaks to I think, like genuinely does speak to the lack of sex education in the US, because some of the questions are like when you have sex with gregnant, does Penis touched the baby hit his head like that kind of stuff where you're just like, oh, open the schools. It's very open the schools.
Energy, Yeah, force you to sit down and learn some facts. Yes, this is this is a big yeggs roney. No, I'm gonna have to watch that. I have seen. On the other hand, the song video where he's like, am I pregnant or whatever it was?
Yeah, yeah, he's based on the same thing for sure.
For sure. Great, Okay, so she thinks she's pregnant, but she also thinks she's pregnant, as you pointed out, Jamie and Loupe is like, well, don't sweat it. We'll just go to a pharmacy and get you a plan B pill. They go to the pharmacy, but the pharmacist played by Jay Chandras tekar Aka mister super Troopers refusal.
Oh okay, I was struggling. Okay, yep.
Yeah, he directed at least one, maybe multiple super Troopers movies, and he also is one of the stars of those movies. Anyway, he's a pharmacist and he refuses to sell them the Plan B pill because they are in South Dakota, and he invokes the conscience clause say that selling a minor a Plan B pill goes against his moral beliefs.
A policy that I was not aware of. Really, Oh my gosh, yeah, I don't know how I had never heard, but like I fell down a rabbit hole after that, because I mean, not surprising, but absurd.
Very absurd. And so because they're both I think seventeen, or they're minors, so he has the quote unquote right to invoke this clause.
He can decide what happens to their bodies. Yeah.
So that means and get ready for this poetry from yours truly, it means that their Plan A to get Plan B if the pharmacy doesn't work out. So their Plan B is to get Plan B at Plan P aka planned parenthood.
And somehow all of this ends up being planed G just plan Greg Greg.
Oh, Greg, I'm like, I'm with you, okay.
So the point is they're trying to get to a planned parenthood. The nearest one is like three hours away in Rapid City, South Dakota. So they take Sonny's mom's minivan and start driving to Rapid City. There is a mishap with like road construction and GPS reception, and they get lost for a little while. They stop at a gas station and get very silly directions from a woman named Doris Edie Patterson.
If you're a righteous Gemstones fan, She's amazing.
That's who she is.
I did not love that character, but I love that.
After yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then they are these like two creepy guys who harass Sonny and Loupe. Doris comes to their rescue. They smoke weed with her. By this time, it's pretty late and Doris points out that Planned Parenthood is probably closed for the night, but Plan B is most effective when taken in the first twenty four hours of the sexual encounter. Then it drops down to I think sixty one percent efficacy within forty eight hours according
to the movie. So Doris suggests that they pay a visit to her drug dealer, nephew Andy at the local playground. They go and meet up with Andy.
Okay.
Moses Storm, Yeah, played by a friend of mine. Did not know he was in this movie. And this scene is another one that we'll talk about. Andy doesn't seem to have Plan B, but he's about to sell them fake IDs so that they can acquire it at a pharmacy. But he's selling the fake id's for three hundred dollars, which they don't have. And he's like, well, you can perform oral sex on me in exchange for the fake ID, and Sonny is like, okay, I guess. And then we see a full frontal penis nudity.
On Disney plus Disney Dyes, Disney plus Mickey's Network.
For god's sakes, we come to this place to watch Mowana and look at what I'm looking at. This scene bugged me. We'll come back to it.
We'll come back to it.
This is where the comedy was getting so broad that I felt like the point of the movie was being.
A little bit lost for sure. Yeah, I really struggled with this scene, and we'll go into why. But the point is she can't go through with this transaction, so she like you know gets away, but in so doing, she accidentally rips out the penis ring that's at the tip of his penis because it gets caught in her hair. So now they have to run off. It's all this high jinks, but not before Loope steals the pill that may or may not be Plan B, but it also
might be PCP. They get into the car with Loop A driving and they take a detour to a show that her boy friend Logan is playing in a nearby town at a bowling alley. So they get there and guess who else is at the bowling alley. It's Sonny's crush Hunter.
Wow, the male feminist himself has entered the entered the bowling alley mm and he's like.
No, no, no, I didn't hook up with Megan at your party. I just gave her a ride home because she was really drunk. And so Hunter and Sonny dance and have a nice time. Meanwhile, Lupe approaches Logan, who we think is like the lead singer dude, but just kidding, it's the drummer who's a girl twist. And they finally meet and they hang out and they're vibing, and.
That's played by Mahala Harald, who I recognized from Body's Body's Bodies.
Oh bye, Okay.
I thought maybe she was also in an episode of Black Mirror that I had seen. I did not confirm that, but.
Oh, I can confirm that she was great. She's popping up. She's great. She's also in Industry, which I think is a pretty good show.
I haven't seen that yet.
I enjoy it. She's in that as well. Yeah, she's popping up right now, but nice.
Yeah, good for her.
This is like, what a lovely moment, the debut of Logan.
Yes, I enjoyed it very much, and I enjoy their connection. They hang out, Lupe and Logan do. But Lupe has not told Sonny that she's queer, nor has Lupe come out to her very religious father, and so part of what she and Logan talk about is coming out, whether or not they have been or will be rejected by their family, you know, finding found family, that kind of thing.
Oh.
I love that scene. I'm sure we'll come back to it, but I just really loved it so sweet.
Meanwhile, Sonny and Hunter are having waffles kind of like how Donkey wants waffles and Shrek d.
Shrek coded scene. Yeah.
Yeah, And she tells Hunter the whole story about how she had sex with someone and now she might be pregnant or pregnant, and that she's trying to get the Plan B pill and she's being really hard on herself and he's being supportive and sweet.
Which I really love, Like, I love how sweet and supportive he is. The cynical demon. Part of me did write down was this young man raised by a stack of glorious Steinhem books like because but I feel like that is like a good use of like maybe slightly unrealistic, Like it's a good model for young people to see that, like this is hot. This is the person to have a crush on. From a realism aspect of it's like, oh,
the one cis boy who has internalized nothing. But I kind of he was raised by a stack of books, and I celebrate that for him. I like that character.
He's sweet, it's nice. Yes, part of me is just like maybe teenagers are just like that nowadays. Well I don't know. I don't talk to them, maybe.
Not talk to teenagers.
I personally don't know one teenager. But I kind of love that this is a model because I think that's how we learn and how young people learn. Like ideally a young person has seen this film and thought like, oh, that's kind of cool, like and I just think that, like, yeah, it perpetuates the cycle if we're just consistently like putting in kind of like sludge into our you know, our male characters. So I I like the sweetness, even though yeah, maybe a touch over the top.
I mean that's yeah, that's not like an actual That was just me having watched thousands of movies and being like, you know, but I'm not the target audience for this movie. It's it's for teenagers.
Yeah, but it is nice to see a very sweet and supportive teen boy character. And then they kiss on the lips. Yeah okay. Oh. Then Loupe is about to introduce Sonny to Logan and effectively come out to Sonny, but then it appears as though Logan has stolen Sonny's mom's van with Loupe's phone in it, so they're freaking out. Sonny takes the pill, which might be Plan B or it might be PCP, and she starts yelling at Loupe.
They get in a fight. They eventually find the van via like the Find My Friend app on Sunny's phone. It's at a party which Lupe and Sonny have to crash to confront Logan and get the keys back.
Writing wise, I love when like modern technology is used well within a teen movie, because I feel like some writers give up and they're just like their phone drowned. But I love I was like, of course, that is exactly what a teenager would do, is like, and that would just be an automatic reaction. I thought that was great.
Or it's like, I don't know how to implement modern technolog in my story. So it's set in two thousand and one.
Right, which is a lot of contemporary movies where they're just like, well, this could all be solved with Google Maps, so I need I need to turn back time. It's like, no, you can still fuck yourself over in the present day. We do it all the time every day.
Yeah, okay. So they find Logan. She's like, sorry, it was my lead singer Xander, who's on drugs. He took the van. Meanwhile, the pill that Sonny took was probably speed, so she's you know, like at an eleven, there's altso high jinks. They eventually get the keys back. Loupe and Logan say goodbye, and then Sonny and Lupe head off in the car. Sonny's like, why didn't you tell me
you're queer? And Loupe is like, I was afraid it would, you know, change the dynamic in our relationship, and Sonny's like, no, I love you forever, no matter what. Then Kyle calls Sonny and Loope picks up the phone, and Kyle starts talking about all the regret he's feeling and the sin he committed by having premarital sex, and Lupe hears all this and she's like, what the hell I thought Hunter is the person you had sex with. Why did you
lie about that? And so they just kind of like air all of their grievances and talk about their feelings and insecurities, and then Kyle's just like, what about my feelings and they're like, we don't care anyway. It's the next morning. They arrive at the Planned Parenthood in Rapid City, only to discover that this location has been permanently shut down.
God, this is devastating.
Yeah, Sonny breaks down crying. This was like, you know, her last hope kind of thing. She really wants her mom. Loupe consoles her. They drive back home, Loupe and her father reconcile. She doesn't explicitly come out to him, but it seems like he knows or he's like getting the hint,
and he seems fine with it. Meanwhile, at Sonny's at first, her mom reprimands Sonny for taking the car and being reckless, but Sonny explains that she was trying to get access to the morning after pill cut to the pharmacy in their town. Sonny's mom gets Plan B for her, so yay, she finally got access to the healthcare she needed.
I loved I didn't see the ending coming, and I really appreciated that her mom showed up for her. That was like, really really cool.
Yeah, it was great. And then the button at the end of the movie is that Sonny's mom finds the penis ring from the drug dealer's penis.
The end, Woo gives a little cent.
And they're like, no, put that near your face. Okay, that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and then we'll come back to discuss.
And we're back.
Okay, Danielle, where would you like to start?
Oh my, there's so much content. I mean maybe at the sex scene. Does that feel appropriate?
Yeah, let's start with what we didn't like and then get into the yeah.
Yeah. So I'll place a content warning here for what is arguably sexual assault because I think that the consent in this sex scene between Sonny and Kyle is very, very murky, way murkier than I would have liked.
Or hoped, which I found frustrating because at this point the movie is like kind of like puffing its feathers out as like having an understanding of consent in several jokes that come before this, including like two minutes earlier, where you know, Sonny says as a joke like I'm not gonna take no for an answer with consent, of course, and you know, Lupe is like, yes, of course, but then the movie doesn't really seem to understand it was frustrating.
Yeah. So basically what happens is that Sonny initiates sexual contact with Kyle without like checking in with him first. You can see the shock on his face as she does this. She proceeds onward. So like the idea that anything that is not an enthusiastic yes is a no, using that as a metric or like that is the criteria, I'm like, he is not giving an enthusiastic yes really at any point in this scene.
Because she says like, I'm touching your thing or whatever, and he says, yes, you are, which is not consent. It's just stating already happening to him, right.
And then eventually they like things progress and he says he does say like, yes, I want this, but we don't know if that's just because he's feeling pressured into this because Sonny is coming on very strong. We don't know anything because they have not openly talked about this in advance, so we're not sure how he's actually feeling. They have sex immediately afterwards, Kyle freaks out. He feels instant regret and guilt throughout the movie. He's calling her
like wanting to talk about this. She blows him off. And I'm not saying that like women should be doing unnecessary emotional labor for men, but like, but this is.
A different situation.
Yeah, for sure.
It really I felt like that character again, just like there are moments where the movie chose comedy over what the movie is about, and it felt like Kyle's character was a part of that where they're like, oh, he's a magician, he's a loser. He loves his youth group too much, so we don't need to care about whether he is given consent for things or or you know, as he's calling her later that I feel like the movie kind of treats it as absurd that a SIS
man would feel a type of way about anything. And it's like, you know, religious trauma around sex affects people all genders, and I feel like, again, it's for some reason, you know, the movie treats certain like it treats Sonny and Lupez trauma and concerns and shame as valid, but then there are exceptions to that, and I just it really bummed me out for Kyle because it just felt like and again it's like, you can you can show empathy for that character without the movie becoming about sis boys.
Like I just thought it was weird that it seemed like the movie took almost any opportunity to like blow off and make fun of this character who appeared to be first of all, like you're saying, Caitlin, the consent was very murky, and even if the consent, even if we're saying the consent was given, was experiencing a lot of like religious shame and trauma after it, and that is like a valid thing. I don't know, I was just confused about that point.
Yeah, yeah, I have. I have a couple thoughts on this. So I think, like number one, Sonny appears to be drunk, right, so theoretically she can't consent and a sexual experience shouldn't have taken place. However, is this how like high schoolers engage in sexual acts? Like, yes, a lot of high schoolers are drinking and are engaging in sexual acts in
this way. So in sex ed class we like to kind of talk about harm reduction right of being like, sure, maybe it's not like the best case scenario, but are we still going to participate in it? Yes? How can we do it a little bit safely? So I do think that like the harm reduction lens as a sex educator feels kind of relevant here because like, people do drink and people do have sex when they drink, and it's similar to when we say abstinence only that doesn't work.
So I think like that framework is important for me. And also I do think that the consent piece could have been added here with just like two lines, like if Sonny's character before she started touching him just said like can I touch you? And if you just was like uh okay, yeah, like it was just a small piece there. Yeah, and then just like one more check in maybe before you know, she took out the or he took out the condom, or before they use the condom,
like that could have changed the entire scene. So I do think it's like small little errors that were made, and I want to celebrate the parts about it. As a sex educator. That felt very unique and like better than most other sex scenes that I have seen, kind of having this lens. One there's the depiction of condoms,
which is pretty rare true. Two there's the depiction of kind of like, oh, like there was kind of a mess up, like she refers to it later as like he touched her taint with his penis, but like, you know, just this messiness of like first time sex. They don't even kiss, which is kind of this like showing of how awkward that these two people are in their bodies
and uncomfortable. They show kind of her gasping out of like how potentially uncomfortable it is, and the session lasts no more than ten seconds, right roughly about that amount of time. So I just like there was a lot that this sex scene could have improved upon, but also got right as someone who like very much is kind of laser eyed at sex scenes.
Totally fair. Yeah, it just sucks that like all those positives or like authentic, realistic portrayals of it are overshadowed for me, at least by this murky consent situation. Like you said, it would have worked so much better if she asked, can I touch you here? And if his giving consent was far more enthusiastic and that you could hear it in his voice and it seemed like both
parties were very willing participants in this situation. It just the fact that there isn't that enthusiastic yes all the way through and the movie like, the only thing that needs to happen for the story to proceed onward in the way that it does is for the characters to have sex and for him to ejaculate and the condom gets stuck inside of her like that's why she tries
to get the plan b pill. So could we have gotten there in a way that the consent was way more freely given yes than we should have?
Although I mean, speaking to your point, Danielle, I do feel like it is relevant because because you are like educating real kids, and I guess I just I wish that if this is the way that that sex scene went, that the parts, like Kaitlyn, what you're addressing, like came up at any point, because I think that there is some instructiveness in that, because, like you're saying, Danielle, so many early sexual experiences because of the lack of sex said,
are awkward even if you have all the information, but if you've been poorly educated, it can like really fuck
young people up. And you know when you add drinking into that, like and if we're seeing one of those situations, which Kaitlyn, like you've basically described, like it is a very messy situation, enthusiastic consent hasn't been given, then I feel like, based on the kind of movie that this is, you should address that in some way, you know, like either by adding the exchange you're talking about, Danielle, which would resolve a lot of the problems, or like, I
think that there is a lot of value for a movie marketed at teens like to show a sex scene that is imperfect, because most likely that's I mean, the way a lot of initial sexual experiences are and then watch the characters have to deal with it and talk about it and process those emotions. But that doesn't happen. It doesn't feel like the movie is really built to be able to do that, and it like completely disregards
the feelings of one of the participants. So it's just like, well, a movie that was like less leaning hard on kind of appatawi stuff at moments where you know, I cannot tell a lie. I did roll my eyes when it was the wrong drug. I was like, Okay, you know I've seen it, but you know that like leaning into stuff like that. To me, if that's the tone, it's probably not a movie that's going to be able to address a very complicated encounter like that. I don't know.
But it does handle other things so well. Yeah, So I don't know why it flubbed so badly on this very important thing.
My assumption is that they were trying to show the realistic portrayal rather than show like a model example of like what clear enthusiastic consent would look like. And yeah, like ultimately it's valid. Yeah, yeah, Like I totally obviously agree with you in that, like enthusiastic yes must happen throughout the experience. If you revoke consent, you don't. You no longer have consent all the things that we teach.
And at the same time, I'm kind of torn just to think, like, do teens kind of again I don't know a single teen, but do teens kind of see depictions of quote unquote perfect consent and roll their eyes at it and say like this is not realistic? Like what is the balance of saying like, I'm going to teach you what the correct way to talk to people are and how to get consent and how does it
look like in the moment for you? And like, what what does that look like to have that conversation with young people?
That's a great question. Yeah, it almost feels to me like they wanted to show the awkwardness of a first time penetrative sexual encounter. It's a very common thing, not just for people having sex for the first time, but also like I have awkward sexual encounters regularly and I'm almost forty, Like sex is awkward and can be really
silly and awkward. To be clear, I am giving and receiving enthusiastic consent every time, but I'm talking about just like oops, you put your dick in the wrong hole, or oop, you're half flaccid still, or you know, just like all those bodies awkward things, like the bodies are weird,
and these things happen continuously throughout our lives. So I think what they were doing is like trying to show and again, especially for two people who have never had sex them having sex for the first time, how awkward that would be. But I think I think that they thought that not giving and receiving enthusiastic consent was like part of the awkward experience. But you could have still had that enthusiastic consent and it still have been also
very awkward on top of that. Totally to my point of like I still I again give and receive enthusiastic consent and still have very awkward sex from time to time.
But I mean, I guess I feel like I'm following something maybe somewhere in the in the middle here where I agree. I mean, like that is how I have sex. Now. I don't know that that's how I knew how to have sex when I was having these initial encounters, So I do believe that there is value to it, But like, I just think the movie kind of with it. I had a more articulate thought in my head just a
moment ago. But oh, even with like, I think that all of the information that you could pull from these characters that we already know again, I just feel like the fact that Kyle never physically appears again in the movie after that is a big problem because I think we could, you know, safely assume that Sonny is very sheltered. She's clearly gotten info, right, but it seems like she you know, both of the main girls in this movie
are from pretty like conservative value families. They're not openly talking about sex. I don't think it's out of the line of possibility that they are under educated about consent.
Especially in the sex said class they're taking with Rachel Dratch. Like they're not learning about consuders.
I don't think Rachel Dratch is teaching them.
They're showing eighties VHS films totally.
And then like Kyle is in that same class and also is hyper religious, and you know, you're not getting great sex said at church. Uh, generally, I've never heard of it happening, And so I think that like, within these characters, there is a way to understand why this initial encounter would not be morally perfect or like a
textbook perfect sexual encounter. But if that's the choice that's being made, and the movie's agenda is to better educate its target audience, I feel like it might even be more instructive to have these characters talk about it, you know. And I like that it's not like, oh, you know, I think that if this movie came out thirty years ago, I'd be like, oh, I had sex with Kyle and now I'm in love with him, and like they would
like it makes sense they don't end up together. I don't even know if they like each other, like, but that if they would like take each other's emotional response to this uncomfortable first encounter seriously, I feel like that could actually be really instructive for the target audience. I don't know either way. It doesn't happen well.
He does try to reach out to her several times to be like, can we talk about this?
I need to process he's saying, and.
She's being very very dismissive of that, and then that magically resolves when Kyle calls her back. I think it's no sun to apologizes to her. He's like, sorry for freaking out I feel fine now, and it's just like, I mean maybe, but also like you were really upset and guilt stricken about this and you didn't get a chance to talk through it with this person.
Like not to defend one of the few sis men in this movie, but I really felt I really really felt for Kyle because it almost felt like putting yourself in a teenage situation if you I mean again, it feels like Sunny is almost behaving like in a way that a boy in a movie would have behaved, yeah, like years ago, and it would have been presented as pretty shitty behavior, because I think it kind of is
pretty shitty behavior, no matters it. And if the shoes on the other foot and you're Kyle and you're reaching out and you're like, I really need to talk about like this. I feel really conflicted about it, and we don't really get to find out the reasons why. I think it's implied that it's religious. But then I think you assume because it doesn't seem like Kyle has much of a support that he could go to about this.
You can't bring this to your church youth group, really, and so it just seems like he apologizes to her, not because he's actually processed it, but because he's like embarrassed that he's bothered by it and she's not communicating
with him. And so it almost felt like that character like kind of doubles down on shame where he felt this religious shame for losing his virginity before he was quote unquote supposed to, and then feels compounded shame by feeling like, oh, and I'm I was like bothering her by wanting to discuss it afterward. I just felt bad for the kid. He's not real, thankfully, just for Kyle. It's a fictional film, but I was like, Kyle was,
you know, I feel like an under explored character. Also, he was in a Spy Kids movie, but like not the Originals, the one where Joel McHale's the dad.
WHOA, Yeah, interesting, is he a spy kid?
He's one of the spy kids. He's in Spy Kids four D. WHOA the one you can smell.
Also, I'm so sorry to interrupt about Spy Kids, but just briefly, if you guys who are listening are interested in hearing about kuhou Verma's takes on that sex scene as an actor, I interviewed her, and a big chunk of the interview of Sex with dB is just like talking about what that is like to have to enact that with a fellow actor, and how to feel safe on set and kind of like what that really looks like to be mimicking that essentially in front of a
room full of other people, depending on if it's an open or close set, and so yeah, I just I just found it fascinating as someone who is a nerd about movies and TV shows about like the way in which these things actually happen, and just like what her portrayal was of it and her experience playing that character.
Totally.
Yeah, that rocks. Yeah, listeners, go check out that episode of sex ad with dB.
And I'm glad that there's more discussion on I mean, it's been a huge round of discourse recently about consent on set and about intimacy coordinators and a pastor of the changing landscape there because everyone feels the type of way about it, and I think a lot of those takes are kind of like underinformed.
The other thing, the other scene that I thought was really flubb a dub dubbed was the playground scene aka the scene where Sonny considers performing oral sex on that guy Andy in exchange for a fake ID.
We love to see Moses Strom get work, but at what costs?
But at what costs?
Now?
To be clear, I do not have a problem with people trading sex for goods or money as long as all parties involved are consenting adults.
Those the two well, that's the thing, is like, yeah, they're under duress.
They're under duress, they're under duress, and one of them is not an adult. In fact, both of them might not be adults.
And Moses and Moses Storm is like, all right, he's in his thirties. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And he's like a joke of like, oh, I mean it is a funny joke, but in the context of the scene it doesn't work. It's like, no, I'm seventeen too, I just have never drank water. A funny joke. That is a funny joke to be visibly thirty, but like it doesn't work.
But also we don't know if he's lying. We don't know what's going on. We do know that Sonny as a character is a seventeen year old child. Yes, Kuhu Verma, who plays Sonny, was I think twenty five at least when the movie came out, So the actor was an adult, but the teenage character is in this scenario. There's an element of coercion here. Sonny clearly does not want to do this. She's acting out of desperation. She's visibly uncomfortable.
This whole thing is framed comedically for some reason. Obviously she doesn't go through with it, but she's like in this scene where like her face is mere inches away from a like completely full frontal nudity penis and she's seventeen years old, And Danielle, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it, but yeah, that was my take.
I was very surprised by the penis. I'll say that I didn't see it coming.
Yeah on Molana's Internet.
Dear lord, I think they could have, you know, created the same comedic effect if he had like a big septum piercing right, Like, it could have been a similar kind of thing where somehow her hair gets caught, you know, she tries to steal it and her hair gets caught in the septum piercing without us needing to have, you know, this sexual favors moment included, so I don't necessarily buy that, like, oh well, it had to come back around for the mom to smell the cock ring or the penis ring at the end.
Especially after like such a nice moment with the mom. I was like, this is the beat, guys.
Yeah, it's not great. I think that. I guess it was used as like a way to show again their desperation and in order for them to get the speed in order for Sonny to I don't know, it feels like it was kind of maybe central in the writer's eyes to like create this offshoot of what happens and the high drinks that ensue. But I didn't love it. It made me uncomfortable and I wish it wasn't really there.
And at the same time, I guess I understand, yeah, how desperate they are Sonny is in particular to get this medication, and does kind of show that, like maybe we could use it as a metaphor that young people are basically willing to do whatever it takes in order to get the reproductive health care they need. But this I'm stretching myself here.
It's so hard, Okay, I also saying it is so hard to straddle genres in the way that this movie is trying to straddle genres, because this movie very much does want to be a odyssey of like broad comedy and you know, you have all the appetite beats of like you can name any comedy of the past twenty years starring teenagers and someone takes the wrong drug and all of a sudden, Guy Fieri's there or someone is a corn cop or whatever the fuck happens, which again,
this is like my taste coming out where I just am like, I'm so sick of it, but like I feel like it. This movie's trying to straddle being a broad comedy that will appeal to a broad audience and a very personal, thoughtful story about reproductive health, and often it works. But the moments where it doesn't, it like to me, really doesn't, and this is one of them for sure.
To your point, Danielle, if the writers are trying to communicate like this is the lengths that people have to go to when they don't have access to reproductive health care, like.
It shouldn't be a funny care. There are a million.
Other ways to do that though, to heighten, to have a very like heightened situation that's wild and hijinxy and potentially dangerous even without putting a minor in a situation where she is going to basically be coerced into a sexual act.
For laughs that aren't even funny for laughs.
Yeah, it's like this is not like not the wokest take, but it's like, if you're going to do something that tone deaf, it better be arguably sunny. But this is just like, it's not, it's.
Not, it's not, and it's really icky. And again, there were a million other scenarios that these characters could have been put in that would have communicated the same level of like look at the lengths that people have to go to without this like very compromising, very uncomfortable situation. So didn't work from at all.
I think the planned Parenthood scene does this, and like it's not a comedic scene, but like I'm sure we'll get to it, so maybe I should pause on that.
But I guess just like we see the planned Parenthood is permanently closed and we just see her breakdown and weep in the parking lot, like this is many people's reality and when they can't get the reproductive healthcare that they need and that they deserve, and that they want so badly, And I thought that was a very moving, realistic part of the film.
And that's like where the movie is at its most earnest and thoughtful, and for that to come on the heels of I think I honestly, the late second act hijinks just were like not hitting for me very much.
The party, I completely agree, it.
Just wasn't a different movie where and it was and not that this isn't true to reproductive health, but it was out of context where it was like they sort of have a series of male obstacles to overcome, but they're not people who are trying to prevent them from getting care, just guys doing something silly in the way, in the same way that I felt like the Edie Patterson character, and I'm I am Edie Patterson's number one fan, but the gas station character felt like, just when you
think that that character is going to be like a genuine ally to them, she just says something completely ridiculous and it chooses broad comedy over a moment that would advance the plot in a way that makes more sense, not like because it seems like, you know, we're led to believe that that character defends defends the girls when they're being sexually harassed in the gas station and parking lot, but then she throws that away by being like, oh no, I was coming out here to hit you with a
bat because you stole a friendship bracelet. So it just goes with like the dumbest joke on the table instead of building a character. I don't know, you jut up a towel movies.
I guess this is my I mean, luckily this is not one.
Uh but like energy wise, you know what idea, it's like we're too high the person said something a little silly instead of something that is advances the plot.
Yeah. I do want to shout out the writer director team here. So this movie was written by Protheki Schosren of Austin and Joshua Levy and directed by Natalie Morales. So it's like a predominantly women behind the camera and these major creative roles women of color at that. So that's encouraging. However, some of these scenes didn't quite work.
Also, a shout out for behind the camera also a woman a cinematographer and composer, which I feel like we don't see very often, So shout out.
To true hell. Yeah, I don't want to talk about the things that I thought worked really well.
Yeah, sorry, we've been we've been harping on the things that don't work for a while.
They are glaring, is the thing, and they feel very out of place in this otherwise thoughtful, funny movie. Yeah, because I think that is most of the movie. Like most of it is done well. It's complicated and sensitive topics are generally handled with care, except for those couple
scenes we already talked about. But like I mean, obviously there's commentary in this movie on the state of reproductive health care and education in the US and how abysmal it is because you see like the ridiculous sex Said curriculum, which promotes abstinence until marriage and perpetuates double standards of you know, women who have sex are damaged, tainted sluts.
The fake like car sex Said video is very funny to me.
Yeah, yeah, it's like great satire spot on. Yeah, there's commentary on just the overall limited access to reproductive healthcare in the US. This includes people with uteruses have to travel hours and hours away just to get access because it's not available in their area or it's highly restricted.
Allah pharmacists invoking conscience clauses and refusing medication to people if it conflicts with their personal beliefs, and that is almost always rooted in like very shamy, like slut shamy type of mentalities.
Yeah, it's just like anti choice rhetoric. Yeah. Yeah, so that someone at CVS can change the course of your fucking life.
Yeah right. The Planned Parenthood being shut down probably because it was defunded or you know, something happened along those lines that this place that is otherwise a beacon of you know, reproductive health care is inaccessible now to people who need it. So that commentary that's present throughout the movie is very effective. The focus on female friendship is
really nice. There's queer representation, there's nice like mother daughter and father daughter relationships, reppers and in the like romantic subplot. Like I thought most of that stuff was handled very well.
I liked that their friendship, Like the way that the two main characters are written is I think, really really thoughtful. Where they're flawed in all of the ways that seventeen
year olds are flawed. They are, I mean I think about sometimes, yeah, like the really close friendships you have when you're young, and how both you feel like you can share anything with this person, and also their opinion matters so much that it can lead to like withholding parts of yourself because if your best friend judges you,
who do you have? And I like that you know they are these sort of like oasis is of safety for each other, and they love their parents, but their they can't talk to their parents about shit, and that even in this like close trusted friendship, there are these worries of like if you know every part of me, will that change our friendship permanently? Like again, like between the two main characters, like it's so layered and I'm still so funny, and I love moments where they're like
singing to the Jesus Trap song. It's so funny, it's so sweet and.
Like yes, very original, it was great.
Like and it feels like a real lived in friendship. And I think also with Sunny's character, I mean, also it's amazing that it's two women of color who are leading this, which so rarely happens in any genre. But I feel like with Sunny's character, she is I think you could argue like the main main character and I don't.
I think that usually that role would be reversed. I think that, like Sonny, if you wrote down her qualities of like she is less sexually experienced, I feel like she's has more of like how people normally write sidekicks, and it centers her, and it centers her story and her needs, and it doesn't shame her for inexperience, and
it like really fully explores that. And I appreciate that because I think that, yeah, like it's a quote unquote sidekick cod character who is given the full space to grow, and that that doesn't take away from Lupe's story either.
True.
Yeah, I was just gonna ask if we could talk about the way that Lupe's queer identity is kind of like portrayed and how this, like you know, is shown throughout the film, just because I feel like it was just so I don't know, it felt really heartwarming to me, and like, you know, you could tell how nervous she was to kind of tell Sonny and the fact that you know, half of the movie we don't know that she's queer along with Sonny, we're kind of kept in the dark as the audience.
And I just.
Thought her relationship with Logan was like her budding romance was like very sweet and tender, and it felt realistic that like, these two people probably met on like snapchat on Instagram or something and they hadn't met in real life because they're like an hour and a half away from each other two hours and like they can't drive to see each other or whatever it is. So there are just a lot of great parts to it that I really enjoyed.
I really liked that like it divert. One of the like diversions from this like again is like appatoo formula that I feel like this movie pulls from in moments is that before they get to the party. And also I felt like it weirdly undercut Logan's character that the car was taken all that stuff, where it's like, I don't think I would be necessarily trusting Logan quite as quickly. Again,
but that's a separate thing. But I really liked that the movie took a moment and I think in what a normal teen comedy would be like hyjenks hyjenks hyjenks that both of their crushes end up being sweet and decent people who like and accept them, and you just get like a really grounded character moment and it's still funny and I just wish the whole movie did that, because I really like the scene between Sunny and Hunter and the diners very sweet and especially I mean like
Lupa and Logan, I'm like, I love them. I hope that they snapchat each other for as long as snapchat exists, because it just like it was such a sweet encounter and like it was one of those cool I don't know, I like portrayals of moments like that.
She's teaching her to play the drums too, just giving kind of little little crush moments.
It's really really sweet and it doesn't like in the way so many teen movies do. It's not like they're gonna get married. This is forever. It's like this was a really formative, safe, wonderful experience that like moves Lupey forward and wanting to claim her identity and like it's really and I think that like there that with Lupe. I mean, she lives in South Dakota, she's the daughter
of a pastor. I think that her anxiety is around that, even if she does fully accept herself, is realistic for the time and place that this movie takes place in, and it's like really nice to see Sonny, you know, doesn't even have to think about it, Like she's like, you're being ridiculous because on paper, sure, but also it's like when you think about who Lupia is, what her experience is, and like how important Sonny is to like her supports that it would feel like a risk for
her and it's just really sweet to see her be accepted and just like have a beautiful moment with Logan. I wish that the whole party scene after that just didn't happen.
I don't like that, don't like the whole van thing.
Xander. I was like, who what is that?
He was in? What was that Netflix show? He was in a Netflix show that I saw playing like an a whole team. I can't remember which one of them.
Was this this type cast actor?
Yes, what reasons why? That's what show he was in?
Oh god, I can't believe that show came out in the last ten years. So what a what a moment?
Yeah?
Not great.
Another thing I really like about the queer romance is that it gets as much screen time and narrative weight as the hetero romantic subplot between Sonny and Hunter, which is pretty rare to see considering that if there is a queer subplot in a movie, well, first of all, they're often non existent, or if there are queer characters, there's only kind of like an implied romance between them, or if it is a more fully realized subplot, it'll take up less space in the story than a hetero subplot,
or if they do kind of get together, there won't be any physical contact between them. But we see Loupe and Logan kiss before the straight people kiss each other, and I was like, WHOA, that's also very rare to see.
They're going at it in the real estate fan exactly.
And then yeah, like hetero romances are often portrayed in ways that leaves a lot to be desired in movies. But I really like the romantic subplot between Sonny and Hunter in the sense that Hunter is a really sweet guy. Because so many hetero romances the movie is asking the audience to root for a very toxic man, a very toxic dynamic, and in this case, like as we said, it's like, are there young teen boys like this that exists in the world. I don't definitely do. I'm not
saying they don't, guys. I'm sorry. I think Hunter's a corny character and I like him, yeah, he like we see him challenge those sexist double standards. In the sex Said Class, he has this really nice interaction with Sonny where she tells him like, I'm a slut. I did this horrible thing. I had sex with someone I don't even like, and now I have to get the morning after pill. And she's being very like judging and shaming of herself and he's like, no, no, no, like, you
don't have to feel like that. He's not judging her at all or shaming her. Like it was a really refreshing thing to see. I think he's really sweet.
Yeah, And then he responds by saying like, I mean he doesn't say this exactly, but I kind of like that. She's like I'm a slut, I'm awful and all this stuff, anticipating judgment from him, and then he's like, well, no, you're a nerd like me, Like, oh, it's true.
Also the way that he kind of talks about the shitty sex ed abstinence film that they see in sex Ed Class, he actually is the one that sticks up for girls and women and says like, well, what about
his car? Why aren't we seeing his car? Because they're using this metaphor that the wife in the film's car is broken and busted aka she has had sex before marriage and therefore no one will want her, which, by the way, are metaphors that many states still use, and they're really horrific sex head classes with miss and disinformation and shaming tactics. And I really like that he's the one that is questioning this because it feels like he is truly showing up as an ally in that moment for them.
It was nice. Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie?
I just, I guess wanted to acknowledge the parents one more time that I you know, again, it's like the parents don't appear very much. But I did like just sort of the portrayal, especially between Sonny and her mom. I think that, like Lupa and her dad, for me, is like a little bit rushed at the end, where I feel like the guy we met at the beginning wouldn't keep asking her where she was, Like was it his whole thing that he was overbearing and not negligent?
Like whatever, it resolves, and I like that it's sort of left as like a this Lupa is not going to be comfortable coming out to her father overnight. But they have this moment of connection and love and it's good. But I really really liked Sonny's relationship with her mom, and like, you know, not everyone is lucky enough to have that experience, but I've had times like that with my mom where it's like you, it's not even a question to Sonny, I can I talk to my mom
about this? She's like, no, I can't. I will be judged, I will be shamed. That's just her assumption based on her mom's behaviors. Seems like a valid assumption. But then having like those moments when you're a teenager of like your parent having to sort of recognize your humanity in
order to show up for you. I really appreciated that her mom was able to do that for her, and that she demolished the guy at CVS and like made sure that I don't know, I just I thought that that was like a very sweet dynamic and that whole moment, like at the when Sonny's at her lowess of like I want my mom, Like who hasn't felt that way? It's very very sweet.
Yeah, I appreciated that as well. I also appreciate that there is more racial diversity and body diversity in this cast than you'd expect from a teen movie or any movie in general. And something I also wanted to note is that you do see a few examples of characters making racist comments to Sonny and or Loupe, which those
characters challenge and mock. So it's just like nice to see the evolution of the presence of racism in teen comedies because in the you know, eighties, nineties, and early two thousands and even like after that, the racism in the movie was characters who we were supposed to be rooting for being openly racist and hateful. This seems to have mostly shifted to racism in a movie being framed as wrong and bad, and the main characters who we
are rooting for are challenging it. So it's just nice to see that shift because we've covered so many teen movies of decades past where there were racist comments being made and we were supposed to laugh along with them. So it's just nice to see that shift.
Totally. This is a tangential thing, but I wonder if I could have one minute to kind of assess some of like the science factual parts of Emergency contraception and Plan B in this film, yeah, because I think that that might might be helpful for people listening, because yeah, there are just a few things that aren't really talked about at all, and obviously they don't have the time or the wherewithal, but we're here now, so I'd love
to share some things, please. So in terms of the most effective emergency contraception option that there is, Plan B is actually the third most effective emergency contraceptive option. The first is the copper IUD, which must be inputted by
a medical provider. Quite unrealistic for people to get an appointment asap after an accident happens, but the copper IUD does reduce the risk of pregnancy by ninety nine point nine percent, and you know it also has the added bonus of preventing pregnancy for up to twelve years if
you are interested in IUD. The second most effective option is an EC pill called Ella, and Ella has to be prescribed by a medical provider taken within five days of unprotect did sex, and it also works best for people who weigh up to one hundred and ninety five pounds.
I don't know if y'all know, but there are kind of weight suggestions for Plan B and for Plan B, which is the most accessible emergency contraception pill, you can get it, you know, on Amazon Prime, you can get it at CVS your local store, and if you take it as directed within seventy two hours after you've had it, it can reduce your risk of pregnancy by up to eighty nine percent, And if you take it within twenty four hours, it works even better. So Sonny kind of
talks about this like ticking against the clock. She kind of has this number of like sixty one percent. I don't know where she got that.
It feels it's not correct.
I don't know about that. All I know is the seventy two hour mark. So yeah, so that's important to share. And Plan B works best for people with uteruses that weigh up to one hundred and sixty five pounds. If you weigh more than this, you still should take Plan B if it's your only accessible option, but it makes it less effective. So I just think this is like super fucked up that according to the CDC, the average American person with the uterus age twenty and over is
actually one hundred and seventy point eight pounds. So for the average person with the uterus, Plan B actually is not as effective as it should be. So those are kind of the main things I wanted to share, kind of.
Just to thank you for sharing that. Yeah.
Yes, hopefully they make some adjustments to make it more body inclusive.
Inclusively people with userses like that's absurd.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that information. I would like to talk a little bit more about my upcoming hysterectomy, So I do want to acknowledge that both as someone who has already gotten my tubes tied and who is getting a hysterectomy, and while both of these procedures were a challenge for me to get because of bias in American health care health care in general, where people with uteruses are seen as baby making machines and
it's their duty to bear children, and doctors will routinely deny you access to these procedures. They will convince you that you'll change your mind about wanting to have children, all that kind of stuff. This is particularly true for white people because there is a long history in the US and elsewhere around the world of particularly black and indigenous people with uteruses who have been forcibly sterilized without
their consent for eugenics purposes. So even though you know, it was difficult for me to get these procedures to exercise autonomy over my body and my reproductive health, it is still a privilege that I was able to do that because a lot of people don't have and have not had that privilege, and they have been forcibly sterilized when they might have wanted to have children. So you know, the powers that be exercising control over reproduction has a
lot to do with racism and eugenics. So I just wanted to acknowledge that, acknowledge my privilege in this situation. And it's like, let people make their own decisions about their own bodies, duh.
But period point blank.
Yeah, yeah, And like the same goes for just I mean, women of color are being disbelieved in medical situations constantly because you know, society conditions people to view them as less human than white patients, which is just like, I don't know, I think you hear a million stories to that effect.
Absolutely. And then the final thing I wanted to talk about is the etymology of the word hysterectomy buckle in everybody. So, as we've said, a hysterectomy is the removal of the uterus, so ectomy signifying the surgical removal of a specified part of the body. But we're like, okay, hister, what's that. What's that coming from? Well, it comes from the Greek word hysteria, meaning womb, and the Latin word hystericus, meaning
of the womb. From these words evolved the concept slash quote unquote medical condition of hysteria, which referred to any number of health conditions that were diagnosed almost exclusively in women and were believed to be caused by the uterus. Hence, this term hysteria rooted in these Latin and Greek terms.
So I'm pulling from an article in useless etymology dot com which points out that a nineteenth century American physician named George Miller Beard compiled a seventy five page list of possible symptoms of histil area, a list which he claimed to be incomplete. Still, so seventy five pages wasn't enough. There was more, according to him, But it included things like heartburn, vertigo, headaches, choking, depression, poor attention span, jealousy,
who knows jealousy, anxiety, death, just name a few. You know, we like when I hear the word hysteria, I associate it with like not able to regulate your emotions, like having emotional outbursts, like all this sexist.
Yeah, like giving someone a reason to dismiss you. Yeah, yeah, yeah because yeah yeah right.
So apparently, sometimes hysterectomies were performed to quote unquote cure quote unquote hysteria, since doctors believed that the uterus was the cause of these problems. Also, in ancient like Western medicine, there was this condition wandering womb, in which the uterus would band name right, in which the uterus would just move around inside your body of its own accord. It would just wander around in there, and that that was thought to cause a lot of health issues and have
all these symptoms. This is, of course not a real condition, but this is what old timey physicians used to think was happening. Obviously, all of this speaks to a century's long fear and distrust and dismissiveness towards people with uteruses and their bodies and emotions. And I just think it's.
Wild that So it was like exclusion from the medical field too.
Yeah for sure, because I was like, why the fuck is it called a hysterectomy. That's why. I don't know how prominent this movement is, but it seems as though there is a movement to rename the procedure to U directomy, which sounds more accurate, at least more accurate. So yay, I just had a you direct to me, everybody. But yeah, that's what I wanted to say about it.
Thank you. I mean yeah, truly, I know that I, up until somewhat recently, was not well educated enough about what a hysterectomy or you direct me as I will
call it beforeward, actually is and entails. This isn't a criticism of the movie, because no movie is qualified to take on everything, but I just wanted to acknowledge as well, particularly because we're recording this two days after the second Trump inauguration, that reproductive access for trans patients is also something that is deeply under discussed, especially during a time where trans healthcare is going to be increasingly under attack,
that this movie. I mean again, it's not a criticism of this movie in particular, but because reproductive health health has only really become harder to access since this movie came out less than four years ago, it's just important to, yeah, acknowledge that this is an issue that affects fucking everybody and that it's not just you know, fem presenting people who need access to healthcare and need to be.
Believed and trusted totally. I mean bringing it back to hysterectomies, many non binary and trans mask people seek getting a hysterectomy as a part of their gender reforming care, and that's an uphill battle for many, if not most of them. So yeah, uh, definitely worth acknowledging. Yeah, does anyone have anything else they'd like to say?
I liked the Jesus Trap song.
We should catch the lyrics of that, Yeah, maybe make a choreographed dance. Yeah, Yes, I guess the final yeah thing that I want to drive home is that, like, while there are many things that this movie could have improved upon, could have you know, a few scenes that maybe were unnecessary or some extra dialogue that was needed, I do think that it is a step in the right direction of portraying accurately what some of these issues that folks who are teenagers, specifically you know, women of color,
girls of color are experiencing in these states, especially where their rights are just consistently being taken away, and all the more reason that we should bring attention to these issues and also hopefully laugh a bit and feel like, you know, sweet sweetness while we're learning about them.
Yeah, there was nothing like this. No movie is like this when I was a teenager that I could have got.
I mean, I guess there was that scary thing from nineteen ninety six you described.
To us, Oh yeah, Maternal Instincts where a deranged woman tries to kill her.
Doctor after having the hysterical surgery. I totally agree with you, Danielle, where it's like, we know, picked on this movie for certain things, but this is this is the kind of movie that again just doesn't exist and is important because it leads to other movies like it ideally, and you know, I mean, we've talked about so many movies like that on this podcast that even though it hasn't been very long since this movie came out, I hope, especially as
reproductive healthcare continues to be a very pressing issue, that it will like inspire other filmmakers to make their version of this movie and sort of continue to grow. And also the fact that I really wish that more movies like this because both movies. I think it is relevant to say that both movies that came out around this time, Unpregnant and Plan B were both streamer movies. I would like to see movies like this actually get a proper
release and marketing campaign. But I think that these stories are viewed in Hollywood circles as risky and like, Okay, we want to do you know, we vote blue no matter who, so we want to have this movie, but like we can't actually promote it, you know, because this is a movie that but I think like a lot of people would really benefit from seeing. But I don't know,
I don't recall seeing very much promotion of it. Like I think if this wasn't an interest I had and an issue that matters a lot to me, I don't know that this movie would have just come to me
in the way that Sonic three does. You know, not that any teen movie gets Sonic three promotion, but you know what I mean, Like, I think a proper theatrical release and marketing campaign obviously makes a huge difference, and you know, getting the movie to its intended audience and also beyond to get you know, people who wouldn't normally be thinking about reproductive health care because they don't perceive it as affecting them.
So like that Book Smart, I feel like BookSmart kind of exists in this kind of tangential world where, yeah, this is kind of like an elevated Book Smart when it comes to like reproductive health issues and queer issues and like all of these things.
Yeah, for sure. Oh, the movie does pass the Bechdel test very handily, regularly between several different combinations of care, which is predominantly Sonny and Loupe, but.
Also Lope and Logans, Sonny and our mom Doris.
Don't forget about door Doris.
There's plenty of women chatting about this, and that.
Tell me about it. As far as our nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples, examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I'm gonna give this between like a three and a three and a half. I wish I could give it more, but it's just those two scenes that really bothered me, that feel so misguided and could have been rewritten in such a way so easily that they wouldn't have been so problematic and uncomfortable. It seems very discongruent with a
lot of the rest of the movie. That they're there and that they're written the way that they are because they deal with things like consent and sexual coercion. And I'll give it three half nipples, docking it for those scenes. But by and large, this movie does handle other things very very well, and I do think it's a great step in the right direction. Is a very like, Yeah, more movies like this, please, minus those couple scenes that
were mishandled. But yeah, I'll go three and a half nipples, and I'll give I'll split my nipples between the writer, the director, the two main leads, and I'll give so like three to all them. And then I'll give my half nipple to the nineteen ninety six TV movie Maternal Instincts.
Yeah, where's the rev remake it.
I'll rewrite it and it'll be about me, a deranged person who got a hysterectomy and is upset about it.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna go three and a half as well. I think speaking to your point, Danielle, that like it is, this is a very important movie to exist. And the two things I want to say because I know that like there were times where I was coming down pretty hard on this movie. This movie is tasked with a
lot that most movies haven't even attempted. So the fact that that both happened happened with a director with a uterus that this is a very important issue to happen with leads to women of color, like all of these things that rarely happen in movies are happening here and are released on a major streamer. That is like no
small feat. So well, there are my gripes with the movie, or my gripes with the movie, but there are so few movies like this that it is kind of a miracle that it exists in the way that it does. And I also wanted to just say, even though I wasn't able to find a lot of information about the production specifically, but I would not be shocked if some maybe not the initial sex scene, but the Moses storm scene. It feels very studio notes to me, where it's just like,
make something silly happen. And again it's like that's this is a Hulu movie. It is very much not outside the realm of possibility that a couple like dipshit executives are like, I haven't what if there was a Pepe that was Peers like some shitty like I don't want to assume that this was all like this was always the most important thing to happen. That might explain some of the tonal dissonance. Maybe that's inherent to the project.
I'm not sure, but it is a movie that's important to exist, and the gripes that I have with it are gripes that I don't have with other movies because movies like this don't exist. So I hope it will continue to lead to more movies that don't contain these issues, that have wider releases. But I think Natalie Morales and Pratheisterna Vasin have really done something amazing. And Joshua Olivia, I guess, I don't know. I don't know. It's like when people are like Noah Bombac wrote Barbie and like,
but like, did he did he? I really don't think that he did. Like maybe he was nearby, like I know they share a home, but like wrote the movie. Anyways, I just don't believe that's that's a conspiracy theory. At Line was like I think that she was just she
owed him a favor or something. Anyways, I'm going to give it three and a half nipples, and I'm going to yes, give one to Napalie Morales, one to protheys rina vasin split one between kuhoo Verma and Victoria Morales, and then I'm going to give my half nipple two Sonny's Mom because I uh the character but also the actor. Why not? But like the character because I was really pleasantly surprised by and I really liked that ending beat between the two of them. I think that that was
like a really thoughtful, cool beat. So yes, the character Sunny's Mom gets my last half nipple.
Lovely, Danielle, how about you?
Yeah? Before my rating really quick, Jamie, you mentioned that there aren't really many other movies like this, but I want to shout out the movie fitting In. I don't know if you I have heard of this movie, but it stars Mattie Ziegler and it focuses on a teen who's diagnosed with mrk H syndrome, which is a condition where a person is born without a uterus. And it is directed by Molly McGlynn, who I also had on SEXI with dB recently to talk about this film and
Molly McGlynn. This is based on her own experiences, and so just a really fantastic film, very well acted. Highly recommend it if you're looking for more films to cover about reproductive health care and conditions. But that is neither here nor there. I'm going to give this film four nipples. I think overall, I have ye hopefully planted my flag about how important I think that it is that we're
showing realistic depictions of sex scenes. And yes, of course we want enthusiastic consent no matter what, hands down period. And I really like the way in which yeah, female friendship is portrayed here, the kind of desire to get reproductive healthcare needs met, and the kind of silliness that happens along the way. I love the way that queerness is depicted in this film. And yeah, just overall, I really enjoyed this movie. I loved watching it a second
time around. I'm gonna give all of my nipples to Kuhuverma and Victoria Morales. I think I just love these actors. I love the way that they portrayed their friendship, and that's where all my nipples are going.
Yay, oh my gosh, thank you, and thank you for joining us once again. And lending all of your expertise.
Thank you for having me. This has been great.
Where can people follow you? Check out your work et cetera, plug away.
Yeah, check us out on Instagram at sex Ed with dB podcast. You can listen to rom com bomb wherever you get your podcast by just typing in sex Ed with dB or rom com vomb that's vom And yeah, you can check us out sex at with dB dot com, us on TikTok at sex Ed with dB. And thank you so much again Caitlyn and Jamie for having me. This has been such a bless.
Oh the pleasures all are.
Thank you so much for joining us and giving us so much good info because I was like, I learned, I lived, I laughed and I learned. And now if that's not a podcast, so thank you so much for joining us anytime you fed us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast. That's pretty much where we are social media wise. There
is there a healthy place to be on social media. Nope, no time to talk about it, but if you want to directly support the show, the best way is to sign up for our Patreon aka Matreon at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast it's five dollars a month and it gets to you too. Bonus episodes on a weird theme from Caitlin and I every month, and access to our back catalog of over one hundred and fifty episodes.
You can also grab our merch at teapublic dot com slash. It's all designed by Jamie Ever heard of her? And yeah, thank you for listening, Send positive vibes my way, I guess as I recover from my U directomy. Yes, and uh yeah, we'll be back next week. And with that, let's uh, let's get in that mini van and have a fun little road trip, shall we?
And move some real estate?
Yeah?
Bye bye.
The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit link tree slash Bechdel Cast