Pacific Rim with Aristotle Acevedo

we have to live with our shame. Yeah, and that's true. So we use the Bechdel test as a yard stick, as a jumping off point. The Bechtel test is a test that requires that there are two women in the movie God, they have to have names, they have to talk to each other. Hate it. They cannot talk about men? Then what will they talk about else? There's nothing else? I hate this test. Well, we're going to be exploring another test in this episode. This is a this isn't

another movie. I feel like we've gotten this request before and yesterday I okay, So we all watched this movie together last night I'm just so excited because our guests, I know, is someone you may have heard us talking about before. You might have even heard his voice on certain episodes because it's our producer, Aristotle, thank you for being here. Wait, if you're sitting there, who's recording the episode? It feels very strange sitting over here watching it happen.

It would be cool if we made one of our past guests come back to sit there and not talk. I feel like, actually Hampton is sitting and it would be fun if it was Josh Fatum. Josh, you cannot speak and you just had to sit there in your horny depth. So Aristotle, you brought us Pacific Rim? Yes I did. Why did you choose this movie? I love Gama, and quite frankly, if any of his movies I would

have been happy to be the guest on. But Pacific Rim has a special place in my heart because it's the first movie I saw his as I was falling in love with him as a person, because I had heard his name and you knew he was I didn't know much about him. He's a friend of the store, and so I had seen him in here a few times, and so I started to look him up more like Pacific Rim was announced. I was like, oh, that sounds super cool. I saw it. Learned about him. He loves monsters.

Everything he does is children and or monsters, usually both. Always horny. He is our horny is living director. We'll get into it. He's very horny fish. But alright, Mr Fish, but himself. I'm a fan of the fish tide gap personally, Kaitlyn, you were the first one to spot the spot the gap. Mind the gap, mind the gap, as they as we say, in horny fish culture. So as you mentioned a moment ago, we all watched the movie together because Aristotle, you invited

this over to your lovely home. We met your dogs, we saw all of your Pacific Rim toys, and we did a couple check in. We recorded a few little snippets, so right before we started the movie, we recorded a little segment. So we're gonna periodically in this episode check in with those. So I think this is a great opportunity to check in with the first one week before we started the movie. So enjoy that. Now. Well, here we are at Aristotle's home. It's so cool here, it's

so cute. The main thing to note is that there are multiple figurines, toys, what have you for Pacific Rim. I think that the word multiple actually really doesn't give you an accurate picture of how much there is. There's multiple fits. There are people with more, for sure. There's let's give other Pacific room collectors there do. But I can see a moderate collector. I think I can see. I can see like eight different things just within eyesight.

It appears as that there's three different Yeager robot machine thing I thought you were talking about, like some weird like Yeager meister. You're like, look at all of our stole Yager pomps. It's like, no, that's okay. So to put this on in the context, we are here to Aristotle's house, we are about to watch Pacific Rim. Jamie has not seen it. I have seen it a couple of times, and this is apparently Aristotle's favorite movie. How

many times, quite a few. I think I saw once in theaters and then bought it immediately when it came out, And now it's one of those movies that I watch every so often, or I'll just have it in the background. Sometimes this is like a kind of rare, because it's not rare that I haven't seen a movie. But it's pretty rare that I both haven't seen a movie, have no idea what it's about. I have never met anybody who has seen it that we've spoken about, like, I

don't I don't know. It looks like a rope DVD menu robot with a circlely light bob and a chainsaw hand. There's tires involved, something about a helicopter. I don't know. Aren't there people in this movie? Are there hot people? And there are hot people? Are there hot people that I would recognize in this movie? Yes, Charlie Hunt Him, Charlie Day, Charlie Day, why weird? He fits surprisingly well? Oh? Also Ron Perlman is in this movie? Oh interesting? Are

there any women? Barely adult movie? Mr? Fish Butt himself the movie. I anno I did this as adult movie. It does not stylistically look like an adult Torro movie at all. Yes, and know and that it's Yeah, based on the DVD, it's so heavily c G. I do people like this movie? I think so. And the Macamoory test, as we will be discussing, I'm sure derives from this Yeah, dirves from this movie. The Macamore test anyway, And you asked if there were people in it, and I don't.

I don't know this, like I don't know the minutes Durassic Park style, but not unlike Durrassic Park. It's mostly people talking. When you watch it. It's not that much c g I happening that's appealing to But it's so big. When it does happen, it's like, oh, ship, this feels like it's going on forever. Well, I didn't know that. I've seen fish but so many times. Yeah, I'm excited for this. So we'll do a couple more of these

check ins. I think one halfway through the movie and then one at the end of the movie, just to get our you know, thoughts as the movies playing out. So look forward to the court. We got hapcorn, but there's some dogs here. Caitlyn brought a bottle of champagne and like she's like Princess Die, Like she's just it's gonna be a wild Pacific Rim night. What does Pacific rim mean? Is that location or a person? It just generally takes place. Well you'll find out is that a

man's full name. I want there to be a character named Pacific Room, Mr rim Yeah, excuse me, name please call me Pacific. You don't see it coming, Just like you were like, whoa Jeelie is a character, Larry Geelie. Every time you mentioned Julie, I have a stroke. So we're about to watch the movie. Will check back in later on and then just enjoy the rest of our episode. Wow, what a fun clip. Wow, so cool. It feels like it was twelve hours ago, because basically it was my

voice sounds like that's you're in there. You're in the comfort of your own home. You're in here. There was one point where you were like, I've got a Pacific rim poster, and your your girlfriend, who's so wonderful. She she was just like do you You're like, yeah, it's in our room and and but then it turned out I was behind the door frame. Did it close in the darker? It never feels like I have that much

specific stuff. But once I put it all out, I was like, oh, yeah, this is twenty separate object individually boxed. That's also that's part of it. It tapped into a lot of things that I knew I loved, but I did like I it took time to realize like, oh, this specific movie is tapping into like all these things in my brain that are like, yes, cool, exactly. It is a beautiful as with all fish butt joints, a

beautifully crafted tail. I enjoyed it. I did end up watching certain parts of it a second time, and I have had a lot of thoughts. So I think this would be a very interesting discussion because this movie was a little bit I didn't realize. I went back to some of the original coverage of it because I think that I tark about this last night too. But it was like this movie, I was not even aware it

had ever come out. I don't know what it did not do well him, It didn't do well, like it did fine, but it wasn't until it came out in China that like, it made a ton of money. All right, we can do the sequel. So the sequel. We're releasing this movie as the sequel, Pacific Rim Rising. Is that what it's called Uprising? Originally Milestorm? But now upright? Should I do the recap? Go for it? Okay, what is it?

What is this movie about? Well, Pacific rim So there's a lot of sort of exposition at the top of the movie where it takes place. I want to say, yeah, they're not so distant not so distant future. I can't refer it to be twenty. There's one point where like, and I love when people do this in the movies of like Not So Different Future, where someone's seventeen and it's almost like a winking and not set in this movie, No,

they do. Yeah, they they say the year seen, but it's said in a way of like like oh yeah, I did that back in ever heard of it? And it's like, okay, called down. I knew it was not so distant future, but I didn't realize how soon it was occurring until we watched it last night. Yeah, some of it already happened. So there's an alien invasion aliens

called Kaiju. So there's a portal to a different dimension by which they travel through to get to Earth and then just basically invade the ship out of a bunch of cities. They're big, they're scary, they hate large structures. Yes, some of them sort of look like sharks. There's sea creature like they're a bit fish manny there. Some of them are of vaginas, some of them aren't. And I will say there's plenty of opportunities in this movie where

people are submerged and it's like, where's the butt? Well, I will say you do see robot butt because there's a very specific scene that I thought was kind of funny where you see Gypsy Danger walking down the street and he's watching them past by and then bam, big old root. But carol te tauris so horny? What's wrong with them? Someone has to tranquilize him. He's too horny. No, he's not. He's not horny enough. How does the male

gaze apply when it's fish robot? But he's cornered the market on places where he's like, this is an area of horny that can't be regulated. He figured it out. Yeah, good for him. Most directors, most male directors, just have to find an unregulated horny area to thrive within. Right. Okay, So there's an alien invasion. They keep coming, so everyone's like, we got to figure out a way to stop these because you know, they use missiles and tanks and all

sorts of other artillery and it doesn't really work. So then they end up they're like, what if we build these giant robots called yagers and we get people to pilot them. They fight the Kaju, and that's just how we defeat them and it works for a while. And a thing about the yeagers that they have to be co piloted because they kind of like mindmeld with each other.

And then also the machine so for like people's like neurons to get the robot to move around and punch people very early and are viewing the science of this movie is if it's like and I know that, and a lot of it's just like, Okay, this is just like it's more visually interesting to watch it this way, but it's like you get the feeling that the people inside the robots they could probably be offsite. I've got to be in there, right, They could probably be in

a second location and be safe. Yes, that was what I was thinking. The entire movie could also be like, you know, like there's two guys in there. We have to imagine a billion government dollars going into at least twenty for each of two guys. Two guys one dies, one falls asleep. Billion dollars gone government money? What in this this someone apocalyptic future? You'd have to imagine that

WiFi still sucks. I mean, in two years, WiFi is not going to be that much better, right, But there's I was like, how is there not some sort of like fail safe autopilot If one guy dies and one guy falls asleep, people don't lose a billion dollars and this large robot doesn't fall on whatever is in front of it. Yeah, so that's a little questionable, but we just as the audience, have to suspend our disbelief for

it if we're going to enjoy the movie. So we do. So. The main character of the movie is this guy named Rolie Beckett, and he's a co pilot with his brother. There's this whole sort of they got matching jackets, they got watching jackets. And the thing about that is that co pilots have to be what's called drift compatible because their mind melding with each other and with the robot. So it has to like, I don't know, they have to have like a compatibility for this to all work

because they're kind of fighting in unison. So and they communicate in this kind of like leave it to Beavery, super like upbeat kind of way where like the older brothers like, don't get cocky kid. There lives a line from Han solo. Yeah, they're communicating with whatever Houston basically, and and they're like, you know, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I'm like, is this a line from rug Rats Young and Naive? And yeah, it's yeah. It's just like a bunch of dudes wearing jackets and

they're like, we like each other. We got robot, we got jackets. They look like the same man, which is distracting. Even then thankfully one of them dies because it's like, okay, well this eliminates confusion. So one of these So the brother dies, he's all upset, and then a few years passed and he goes to work on this wall, which is supposed to be the thing that's going to stop the kaiju now except a dozen. So they're like, actually, right, let's bring Brack Bratt. Let's bring bring back that's a

that's a good character him. We've got to remember that Mr bing Brack. So they're like, hey, let's restart this yeager initiative and let's get Raleigh Beckett back into the picture. This is what Idris Elba's character does, whose name is something Riker So Idris Elba is Striker Pentecost. He's hot.

He speaks in a vocal style. I will call i ambic pan i ambic pentecost Fortune Cookie, where every line of dialogue for this character is just sort of like a vaguely motivated but like could really apply to any situation kind of motivational or stern kind of nonsense, which culminates in really one of the best movie monologues of

the past ten years. It's incredible. So he basically recruits Raleigh to rejoin this initiative, but because his brother is dead, he has to figure out someone else who he's drift compatible with. Enter Maco Mori. She's sort of like Idris Elba's assistant slash daughter prodigy, and she expresses a strong desire to want to be a co pilot, but for reasons that we don't understand at first, that's not an

option for her. So she has selected all these different people to sort of audition to be a copa to see if their drift compatible with Ralli. And then he's like, ooh, then none of these people are good. How about you, Maco, And she's like okay, So they like do the tests and it turns out she is the most drift compatible with him, and as Albo is all like, no, I won't let this happen and they're like, well, it's happening anyway. Yeah, but he can't say that yet because we've got another hour.

So basically make preparations for Ralli and Maco to co pilot Gypsy Danger, Gypsy Danger. That's a great there's a lot of like almost every name in this movie is like pretty awesome. We also haven't even mentioned any of the kid name those are my favorite. Oh I don't never even feminist icon Crimson Typhoon. Well that was a yeager. Sorry, I'm gonna go up. Are there any women in this

movie anyways? Hardly so more Kaiju were coming. You know, they can tell when they're about to show up because there's this guy named Tendo who's sort of in the control room. And then there's some other co pilots. There's an Australian father son duo who are both adult blonde men who look exactly like which is Ali, which is personally every adult blonde male is enacting out terror on me. Adult blonde males just they just seem not to put you in a box, but also you are the most

privileged of them are adult men with blonde eyelashes. You're just like, what's going on here. Something's very there's something very alien. E hey speaking, don't cut that out bringing it back. I won't Rally and Maco try to like basically be in Gypsy Dane, her and Maco. Since she's only ever done like what are they called simulations and never actually have driven one, she kind of sucks it up the first time. A small footnote that's an important

one is that Raleigh sucks it up. He focks up first, and that's why she gets lost in it. Oh, I didn't catch that. He Um flashes back to his brother and it's like, all right, all right, I got to sunder control. But that's what leads her to them. But that allows us to learn some backstory about her, which is that, Um, the reason she's so desperately wants to be a co pilot is because she was like nearly

killed by a kaiju. And I think we can probably assume that they killed her whole family and like her whole community basically on an attack when she was a child. And the person who comes and saves her and kills the kaiju that's about to kill her is his character, so that's he like finds her when she's a small girl, and kind of takes her if Marco mary passes to Marco Marys. But what because the twist is Idris Elba

but whatever. Despite that, so we we learned that about her back story, and then some things happened where oh crap, we definitely need Raley and Maco to get into the ager and fight the bad guys who are coming. And then meanwhile, Charlie Day is in the movie and he's he's drifting with I enjoyed Charlie Day in this movie. It's always we were talking about this too, where it's like in every movie he's in, it's like did he like luck out or is he actually good at something? Unclear?

He's fun to watch, He's fun to watch. Agree with that. So the ultimate plan is for them to basically drop a nuclear bomb on the portal thing that's allowing the Kaiju to enter our world, and then it happens, and then they blow it all up and they kill all the Kaiju and then we win. Hooray. Also, Marko Moury is literally launched out of the climactic scene, which was

not lost on me. I know that that is like in the Sex of the story, it's that she you know, he was making a sacrifice to protect her and was putting his life on the line, and that has narrative importance. But she was literally launched out of the scene without her concetts. So because she's you're out there, like, oh, it looks like something about it important to happen in this movie with barely any women. Let's just let's just get her out of here, get her out of here,

and then say we're doing her favor. Yeah, that is a very frustrating moment to see. So her like oxygen levels are becoming critical, and I think she presses out, so he launches her out there by saving her. So a man having to save a woman, and like you said, it makes her what could have been her contributing to the outcome of the story into the big climactic moment. She is then robbed that opportunity. It's what we've seen in Twilight, where Beliswan just passes out during the climate.

I think she's not forced to watch. We don't even have to say, we don't even have to It's like, no, we don't have to look at her. So that is certainly frustrating. However, there's a lot to discuss in terms of Mako Morey's character. And Okay, so let's start with describing what the Mako Morey test is, yes, and where it came from. So, the Mako Morey test requires that a movie has at least one female character that's the first condition, who has her own narrative. Arc number two

that is not supporting a man's story. So those three conditions. This came to be from a Tumbler conversation, as I understand it, where a user was talking about Pacific Rim saying, Oh, I wanted to like this, but it didn't pass the Bachtel test and yes, yeah, so one yeah. One user was kind of dismissing the movie because it didn't pass the Backtel test, refusing to acknowledge that the Backtel test is not the end all be all and that a movie can still have strong female characters and not pass

the Backtel test. So I user responded, Um, so this is user spider Zan feminist Icon said it's really easy to throw away a film because of that test being the Betel test, which is flawed and used incorrectly in a lot of ways. If you're a white woman and can easily find other films with white women who look like you and represent you, but as an East Asian woman.

Someone like Maco, a well written Japanese woman who was informed by her culture without being solely defined by it, without being a racial stereotype, and gets to carry the film and have character development almost never comes along in the mainstream Western media, And honestly, someone like her will probably not appear again for a very long time. So this user is saying, like, who cares if the movie didn't pass the Backetel test, we still get great representation

of this character in Mako Mori, right. I think then someone proposed the Mako Mori test and then said, okay, well, let's apply this different tests, not the Bachtel test. But a movie can pass the Maco Mori test if it has one female character who gets her own narrative arc that is not supporting a man's story. So and and uh, non white female protagonist to foot in a big summer

movie is a big deal. And like is it is great that a non white female protagonist is getting so much care and treatment and narrative importance and the fact that her backstory has to do with what's going on in the movie too, and like learning by learning about her we're also moving the plot forward. Was really cool and wasn't just like that was just like good writings, only there were another female. Well it's surprising and not

like surprising, and that we have this great character. That's good representation because this is also a little bias on me. Why I love Gammo is that he is a Mexican director, and so you know, and I knew that was like, oh ship, a well liked Mexican is doing cool shit awesome and he gets it, but why did he cast

three white guys as the leases is? It's odd? And then his career is he kind of has leaned that way more in his later movies, which just like it's all cool, but you know he used to make movies in Spanish with all Mexican actors, right, yeah, well, like what about a fish maybe? I mean, if he's maybe trying to appeal more to the mainstream, then he's like got to get some blonde white guys in there, ypt but three identical blond they're supposed to be from different generations.

You'd have no idea they have to. It's so funny because they're the acting in this movie. And this is another thing that seems like a little bit off brand for del Toro's like he tends to cast actors who have chemistry kind of a bay. But no, I don't know. For me, zero people in this movie appear to have ever met or wanted to make eye contact with each

other in the fucking least like everyone. I felt like every actor, It's not like anyone with doing a terrible job to the point where it's distracting, but it was just like every actor was in their own bubble and they were not moving outside Like Idris Elba I feel like might as well have just been in a bubble this whole movie, just moving around like he's not really

making He's delivering lines flawlessly, is he hot? We're all horning for each help, But it's just there is like a weird, uncanny quality of how the characters in this movie. And I don't know if it's supposed to be a stylistic thing, it didn't quite work for me. But just like the way that people communicate in this world feels very even when it's supposed to be personal, feels impersonal. It was two seventeen, what do you expect it was?

We're not going to be able to make eye contact anymore, everyone will just be shouting fortune cookie lines at each other. I don't know. Hey, um, I think now seems like a good time to check into our middle part of the movie segment that we recorded while we were watching it. One glass of champagne deep, all right and enjoy that. We're in the middle of the Pacific rim. Yeah we are. I'm learning a lot of things. Yes, Actually, I'm like

kind of really into this movie. Midpoint check. I think I've seen three women I noted in the Shattered Dome when they're walking through. There's quite a few women in the background, are there? Okay at an account, but there were. It's it looked like there was, because you could see a lot of like ponytails and hairs and buns. Is that is that a women in stem environment? Or wait, okay, is that when they're like they're walking through. He's like,

that's gypsy danger? That the potentially right, like potentially mechanics or engineers maybe for a movie with I I say, so far, stundingly few women. At least most of the ones we are seeing are probably women and stuff. So that's good. Yeah, they're your extras or women and stuff,

all right, del Toro. All right, we've encountered Marco moriy We just finished the part where she gets like a really cool backstory moment that I feel like, even when female characters are given backstories, I feel like it's so rarely connected directly back to the plot as much as hers was in a way that was like, well that's so cool, Like not only does she have a backstory, but it's like relevant to what's happening right now. I feel like there's like there's a more tasteful way to

put this trope. But like if a movie is very lazily trying to like characterize a woman in TV two where it's just like there's a point in the movie where like a woman raises her hand she's like just so you know, I was raped, and they're like, okay, cool, now we know one thing about her and let's just keep going with the movie and like using abuses just like a device to be like see if she's existed prior to being in this movie. Well, it's weird because this sad truth of that is a lot of women

have been assaulted. However, it's not the only aspect to a woman's personality. Yeah, thats experience that's more of the point I was speaking to. And then the only other thing we know about her other than she's gonna kiss the fucking guy at the end, is this, you know, Okay. I feel like each el Us character in this movie is like a character we've for sure seen before of just like vague authority figure who has a heart but

sort of not. Oh man, I can't wait till we get to the part where he delivers his Bill Pullman an Independence Day like speech. The last line of his speech is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. I can't wait for you to hear it, Jamie. Okay, Well, uh, we'll be checking back in at the end of the movie. Oh yeah, we'll talk to you then and we're back good. Another thing we've hinted at is that with such a huge cast of main characters, only one of them as

a woman. So we've got the ones we've mentioned with in Raleigh Beckett, We've got atrislas character. We've got the two co pilots who are the Australian father son duo right there, thirty five and thirty seven respectively, and yet there's somehow father and son we've got Tendo, who is sort of like the guy who's in control room and Mexican actor, so I like as I I never I didn't recognize him. I love Clifton colle Jr. That's right,

he's your Melina. Maybe Alpha Milena could have been replace like one of the blonde men without from Blace, replace any of those characters with a woman, like there's no reason. I mean, like several of the characters you do see like glimpses of women who are like helping to build the yeagers. We don't even meet Maco until twenty three minutes into the movie, and I would say it's probably around minute forty five that she says more than a

few words or a few yeah. My point is that there are so few women in the movie, so many opportunities for some of the characters to be women, like you've got the two science pals who are Charlie Day and then Dr Gottlieb, and I mean forget about like gender equality, which, as I always say, forget about gender quality. It would make this movie less confusing to watch if there were more women and diversity, because it is hard to tell the blonde man apart. Genuinely, I also think

that Tendo and Gotlieb sort of look alike. Like, wait, it took me a while to figure out that there were two different people I could tell I knew who Adris Alba was, I knew who Marco Moria was, and

I knew who Charlie Day was. Everyone else no idea in main characters, yes, but watching the backgrounds and all the scenes where they're in the shattered dome and walking around, or anytime there's big crowds, there is a very diverse cast a background people where you see lots of mostly Asian people, which makes sense because they are in Hong Kong. Lots of women back there walking around, women walking together

and talking to each other in the background women. And then that's where not like you really see that this is a world issue because there's lots of different people in the background. I thought like the movie just doesn't consider them more important enough to be included in the story, right, which is pretty true for most movies. But let's isolate Maco Mari as a character and talk about her. So one of the main things I want to point out about her is that one we know exactly what she wants,

which is great. A lot of times if there's a female character, she doesn't want something for herself, or she's just there to support the male protagonists. But she says specifically, I want more than anything to be a pilot of a yeager, and we also know why, so we she's got the desire and she's got the motivation. We find out that she wants to do this because she wants to seek revenge on the Kaiju, and we learned this

from her sort of like memory flashback thing. But also I think Iatris Elba has a line where he's just like, you know, revenge is not it's not good, and which brings us to yes, you know that famous saying. So she keeps me like, I want to be a co pilot, and her daddy, Idris Elba, is like, no, because your emotions are going to compromise your ability to do that. However, so I sort of can understand where he's coming from.

But I think that might be a bad excuse because you know a lot of people are like, oh, women, they be too emotional. They can't lead a country and they can't do stuff because if their emotions. Thinking about that line now, because when that line is spoken, you don't know what their relationship is. So I think what's he's saying like emotion because her backstory, not because she's

a woman, but you don't know that. And so even if that is true, even if she's just like desperate for revenge, and that might conceivably, you know, sort of cloud her ability to be an effective co pilot, I

can see that happening. But no one bothers to point out that Raleigh also is probably like rife with emotion about this because his brother died while he was connected to him, and he even says like, I can't do this again my brother we were still connected, so he has so many emotions also connected to this idea of being a co pilot of a yeager, but no one's like, well he although counterpoint Marco does say you make a lot of rash decisions, like I don't think you're the

right person for this mission, except that that doesn't matter because that's the only thing that's said or done to maybe stop him, and then he keeps going on with it, so at least she acknowledges it. But no one like Arise Elba isn't coming in to be like, well, you're too emotional rally because of your brother, Like no, he seeks him out without reason, seeks him out, but he also is he's desperate because he like he says, like, oh, Dijoradi trial the other pilots, and I was like, we did,

They're all dead. You're the last one. You are our last resort. That's true. And it's like and I do understand from the paternal aspect of like you don't want to send basically your child out into what seems like mortal danger. That makes sense, but that to me brings out the whole like daddy thing with this movie that bugs me in regards to Marco Moore's test because she

is the only female character we have. I think she's a really strong character obviously, and we're given this really satisfying backstory, but that we see the first half of her backstory, the first whatever percentage, and we don't see Idris elba connection to it. We see and for me, honestly, that would have been enough, Like you could have stopped there and had it been like I mean, the motive,

there's more than enough motivation. But then she's introduced with this new father figure and in no way I'm like, does Marco Mori's story even pass her own tests, because yes, that that does not tie her to the protagonist of the movie, but it does directly connect her to another major male figure in the movie. And so it's not

totally her story. It has to do with her relationship to her father, now, you know, I mean that relationship has explored a little bit and reference because spoiler alert, Eater Selva's character dies right before Marco Mori's launched out of the movie. Uh, And so I don't know, it's like there's a version of that relationship being clarified and introduced that maybe could be I and I I know

that you guys might disagree. I just don't think that that was like necessary, and that felt like in what was otherwise a pretty satisfying, powerful story, kind of like the one of like, how are we going to get her back into Like all the guys like, I didn't think that that was a necessary thing to do. I do, like I agree that it would have been totally fine if she was just like vengeance, no daddy, I just wanted to fight Kaiju. But I wouldn't say that her

back story doesn't pass the Maco moriches. It just links and intertwines her backstory with I just help us backstory and as supportive. It's just more of like, here's where all of these things fit together, and this is why they work this way. But also her hunger for vengeance does actually save them in one of the moments later when they're being carried off by Otachi. I forgot what Rally's line is, but it's something to look like, what

do we do now? It's like there's still one more thing, and she remembers the chainsword and then she's like before she they use it like this is for my family and Slicestachi And so if anything that you know, hunger for Vengeance was a great yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

so yeah. I like that she has a clear, strong, specific desire that we often don't see women having in movies, especially when they're not the protagonist, and that desire is clearly motivated by something that's actually relevant to the story, something that that I didn't like as much or that I felt she was sort of robbed of. Is so whenever Raleigh is sort of doing the drift compatibility test with the other candidates and Maco and I'm gonna never

remember each Selbo's character's name. Mr pentecost. It doesn't feel right to You can think of it as close to Paddington striding. Okay, I'm just gonna call him Paddington. So Paddington and Maco are sort of overseeing these um compatibility tests. No one seems like quite the right fit, and Raleigh's like, okay, well how about her, let's give let's change this up and give her a try, And then it works out that,

oh wow, they are the most compatible. But what rubs me the wrong way about that is that her taking the drift compatibility tests with him only happens because Raleigh suggests it, and then her becoming the co pilot only happens because he insists on it. So she has the capability, but she doesn't necessarily have the agency to do things for herself. And maybe that's not like a huge deal to me, but I think it's worth noting that her agency is a little bit. She's robbed of agency in

that scene. In Situation in particular, I think that's almost another world problem too, though, where it's like this world, even though there appeared to be women in it, does not listen to women very much, because Marco More is our only female character and usually when she says stuff, even when she says it emphatically, people don't listen to her, even when it is character motivated that you know, Agri's elbow wouldn't want to give her what she wants right away,

but it's like he's dismissive of her. For the most part, Raleigh treats her with respect and treats her skill set with respect, but he doesn't always listen to her on the first try either, And you're totally right, and where even when she's displaying agency, and I think we see this in female characters all the time, where sometimes we see a female character display agency and advocate for themselves,

but it's almost an empty gesture because no one listens. Well, I think that brings up another point, which is something that I like about this movie, where even though she hasn't given much agency in that scene where she's only doing these things because other people are suggesting that she do them, and she's not necessarily super advocating for herself in that moment, but she does not have to do extra work to prove herself to the main male character,

Raleigh immediately recognizes how capable she is, and he immediately respects it because oftentimes in movies, you'll see a woman being strong and capable, but the men around her dismiss her until she kicks, Yeah, until she does the kick moment, usually dismiss her only because she's a woman, and they just like have these assumptions, oh, that she can't do this. She's a woman, We're not going to pay any attention

to her, We're not gonna listen to her. And then she goes hi, yeah yeah, and they're like, whoa, oh, you can do a thing. But in this movie, which I really like it frame this way, is that she doesn't have to. Like, even though this is maybe not necessarily reflective of real life where women often do have to work harder to prove themselves, but Raleigh immediately recognizes and respects her abilities and capabilities. Porn um, it's porn. So yeah, it was just I really liked that aspect

of the story. Yeah, I totally agree. I also say they're at at Every time we keep saying the Marco Morey test, I keep thinking the Maca more tests, which is a test that is hopefully never passed. What would that even be scientia, I don't know. Let's see what happens I assume we'll get to this, but Marco is not the only female character. She's only female main characters, but there is another, so tell us about her, Aristotle.

We do hear her name when they're walking through the shadowed Dome and Pentecosta is showing Raleigh all the yagers that they still have and he introduces cherno Alpha fan favorite, my favorite and is piloted by Sasha and Alexis Katanowski husband and wife team, and just by looking at them, they're already everyone's favorite character. That's the thing that it's like, why, Yeah, the first shot of them is so cool. They're like who are these people? And you don't really get to

find out. I mean there is like later, so would she be Sasha or Alexis? She's Sasha? Like I was like, yeah, they both have similar names, and when you first see them, he is significantly taller and bigger than she is, but

they are walking as equals. They are both equally strong and when they're and when they're operating together, it seems like she's the leader, which I agree and that when I when I saw this was like, they're they're sucking Boba Fett Captain Pasma where you see this badass character that you want to love, but you never get the like satisfaction of seeing them be truly badass until so I saw this movie in theaters. I loved it. A

lot of people gave it ship, Give me Ship. And then Germo del Toro retweeted this person who wrote on their blog, and this is where I got a lot of my ideas and fed deeper into my love for Gammo. If you want to look it up, it's Storming the Ivory Tower, the visual Intelligence of Pacific Rim and it's this guy who wrote a blog post about how he

and his girlfriend saw it. And she has a learning disability where she can't understand like non literal language, but she interprets visual language very clearly, and so she walked out with all these great examples of the Karnowski's of them walking around, and then when you see them later in the mess hall, you see her like beckoning to him with her finger, and then when he sits down, she puts her arms around him and she's like very protective of him, and it's all in Gammo's very intentional

visual language. Horneus tractor working Horneus tractor Working. I hadn't noticed that in terms of like the visual cues they give off, but like, why not give them something to do? Why not let us get to know? I mean, we can see that they love each other and that they're good at their job, particularly Sasha because we hear her talk. But if you you know, like miss her name, then

it's only really said once, maybe twice. They didn't They refer to them as the Kotronowski's beginning again, right, I don't know, I mean, especially because it's like, oh man, they look so cool and it's such a clear opportunity to have another female character, but it's just like it's

almost like a flagrantly missed opportunity, you know. Well, I mean she gets so little screen time, and even while she is on screen, she's doing really cool, kick ass things, but she on screen for maybe a total of three minutes if you just add it all together. And the mean, why we have to watch a very damp Charlie Day wander through Hong Kong for forty five minutes And it's just like there did's balance it out right? And then so like there's the other copilot pair, which is the Hansen's,

the Hansen Hanson the bad Hanson. Hanson is yeah Taylor Zack and I think, oh I would have gotten that. It's a good name. So we see a lot of those two characters, the Hansen's. We explore their relationship that we don't care about and everything. Yeah, well so we care about them, I don't know. I mean, well, they're so they're poised as these like sort of like hypermacho like extra alfa, very um like talking and commercial. Well, so the thing about them is that they don't like

Charlie Humes character. They don't like Rally the Sun does. Chuck doesn't. Okay, Perk is like he's really the problem is Chuck because he feels he's such a like a hot shot badass that he's better than everyone but Herk and Ralie get in a fist fight. Uh, that's Chuck that gets in the fist fight. Wait, which is the Sun is the dad? Chuck is the son? And which one? So Chuck does not like? Yeah, dads are old dads? Did no one get the note dads are not young

when they have adult sons. It doesn't happen. It doesn't make sense. I know, I thought they were brothers for the longest time, and then every sort I was like, no, those are that's a father and son. But anyway, so Chuck is the one who does not like Raleigh, right, yeah, okay, so they yeah, they have a fight, and there's this whole like, oh, I'm more masculine than you know, I'm more masculine than you. Oh, get your girlfriend down here, Like there's this whole exchange they have. Then they have

a fist fight about it. So it's just like, to me, it's like, fine, if that happens in the movie, whatever, But why does does that storyline get so much screen time? But the husband wife Sasha whatever their last name is, who are more visually interesting strictly based on the fact that they're not the same exact fucking person. I also made note of that fist fight in the hallway, and I feel like I'm just I'm just putting all my thoughts of Gamma on the scene. But it could also

just be a bad scene. But the fight happens because Chuck refers to them as bitches, which is like you see Maco and Raleigh both being like very restrained and wanting to obviously yell at him and fight him. And then it wasn't until that that Raleigh loses his ship and starts fighting him, so I thought, like, well, he's kind of defending her honor, but he also could have

just been okay with it. But it also shows that she's very tough skinned and that she'd like she was like, I don't care what you say, right, And it was probably dealt with like shitty dude saying horrible things for her whole life, and she's like, Oh, it's just another day for me. I mean, yeah, the real world is

any indications. Probably Another thing I really like about Marco though, is that the movie establishes that the narrative could not happen without her, Like she is the most drift compatible with Raleigh, so the story just simply cannot play out without her, or not play out in the way that it does. So I like that she's poised as a very crucial character. I wish we just I mean, she even still isn't on screen all that much because there's so many other sort of moving parts to the story.

Not a whole lot of time is dedicated to her or her story. I'd be interested in how much screen and she actually has. And then there is at some point in the movie and she comes back, she's in, she's in the final scene. There's a weird nozzle that you and I spar over that we don't need to spar over again because it was stressing at me. But there is there is a point where, once she is it's determined that she is the most Drift compatible. We

learned the backstory, we get the Alba reveal. She disappears for chunks of this movie, even when she's physically there, and that is something that bugs me and something that I was pleasantly surprised with. But the Sasha character, it's like, when she is inside of Yeager, she's fully present and she's calling the shots and she's doing all this stuff. And I understand from a character standpoint, obviously Maco wouldn't be immediately in charge because it's like the first time

she's doing it. But she's really pretty much silent when she's working with h I don't know why I was about to call him Phoenix, Well that's the name of a city. And when she's working with Raleigh, um, she's doing I mean, she's doing her job, she's doing it competently, but she's not speaking, like they're not verbally communicating during that and I and I was just like, because their minds are so melded, they do the Vulcan mind meld and they don't. You can't. You can't have both ways though,

because he's speaking, is speaking out loud, and she's not there. Again, I'm referring back to Guammo because I am of the religion of Garammo. He was very with the exception of like the minor characters. He has noted that Maco and Raleigh have the least amount of lines in the movie opposed to everyone else, because he wanted them to fill

the world. But he intended for Maco to be like very silent, but when she does speak, it has a point and she's thought about it and she knows what she wants, whereas Raleigh is a little more just like I'm just gonna say whatever. I think that's a totally legit character decision, but it only works in a world that's populated with other women as well, other types of women, because if your only female character is like strong and silent,

then we don't hear women talk. Well. I did some IMD being for specific rim Uprising, and it appears as though there are way many more characters that are like top build who are women nice? Then the first specific room movie seems to have. It's also it's hard to say until you see the movie and actually see what sort of representation is on screen of who these female characters are and do they have lines? Do they have agency? This one passes the bacteal test because it seems like

they took some ship the first time around. Yeah, excited, but also nervously excited because it's not Gamo and from the trailers it looks a little more transformery. Well, that was another thing about this movie where it does like if you just see the poster, it looks transformery, and then I was like, oh no, there's this story here. There's stuff going on, stories more visually interesting that the production design and like the coloration and stuff in this

movie is really cool. I think he I this morning and I tried watching it again but with the commentary, and he talked about how they spent a year just designing the things in the world, like so every little detail of like there's ladders here because people would need those ladders to climb to this to get in there. There's patches that like he was very specific about what he wanted through. He gives all of his characters bio for every movie. He does color codes everything, like Caitlyn

Died Love color coding. One last thing that I wanted to say about Pacific Rim is in a very early scene, there is a boat, a fishing boat that needs saved and not and a yeager comes in and scoops it up and all the people in it. There's only like ten people in the fishing boat, but they all live and they save the day. I'm just wondering how Titanic could have done differently if it wasn't Tiger to save

Titanic and scoop it out of the oceans. Well, I think we should open open a discussion about that for the next I mean, yes, it was the wrong ocean because Titanic be as we all know, cross the Atlantic and this is about the Pacific Rim. But there is an iceberg in that same scene, is there? Yeah, because that's a knife head pushes Gypsy Danger up against the ice, sticks his face into his heart. Oh my god. That fishing boat almost Titanic, almost Titanic's verb n I wanted

to We talked about it a lot last night. But there are some Vagina monsters and not as agreed justus as other vagina monsters we've seen, And as someone who granted does not know a ton about vaginas, vaginas or monsters, it just seems like the easiest monster decision to make. See, I don't it's a it's a hack monster. I don't think of vagina. Dentle agree, but I don't know. I don't know if I would classify the monsters in this

movie is vagina monsters. It's not all of them, but some of them you're referring to in the flashback scene, which is a crab themed kaiju, and so I looked up crab mouths and it is very that's that's just that's crab it is. It is pretty. Yeah, so it's crabs. To blame crabs with their vagina, you know, it's even more vagina like than crab faces are. I can't think of anything, certainly not vaginas themselves, muscles, m U s

s e o, oh my god. Those are just little vaginas in a show eaten And that's like one of those gross things that they tell teenage boys like, you know, it'll really turn on girl on there's that's what they do in New England anyways, because I had in high school. They told him there was a point who took me out on a date to legal seafoods and got us a plateful of muscles with his dad's money because he wanted to see me eat a bunch of little vaginas

real quick. They also do refer to Gypsy Danger as she Oh, Gypsy Danger is a lady, and then so is Otachi because Oachi is pregnant. We didn't talk about the pregnancy twist. We got to hear Charlie Day, which I find interesting because I mean, these are alien life forms. We do not really understand all about the intricacies of their life. But they seem like reptilian slash fish like slash crustacean type of animals. But they still give birth

to young they don't lay eggs. That's interesting, but it's it's a very odd choice that I can see, like, Okay, that's why you needed it for the story. But they're supposed to be clones, so you would have had to have cloned the baby into it, right, unless they're on the other side of the riff. It was confused. Yeah, some more confusing science. I'm pregnant with my own clone right now. So it's actually check well, I would love to see that movie, let's write it, okay, and feminist

nicon Hannibal Chow. Oh my god, yea Ron Yeah, Ron Perlman literally a queer icono this movie. It's fucking crazy, and I know that I've historically been very down in steampunk imagery. He's wearing steampunk gongles. I don't care. I love it. I love it. Let him wear him. I honestly, I was so like visually stunned by Ron Perlman that I'm not totally sure what his character was or what burying it had on the plot, if any. He's just

a mobster essentially in Hong Kong. Yeah, he has he has like access to black market kaiju part yes, trying to get the brains so that he can drift with the kaiju. So weird, Like Charlie Day and Ron Perlman are in Pacific. It's just like, yeah, sure, I don't know. Those are also several characters that could have been women. I was thinking that Parker Posey and a Josie in the Pussycat style, like those two characters kind of reminded me of each other in a weird way of just

like they're both very visually flashy. I think the Parker Posey could have easily done Ron Perlman's part. I love Pan. I get that he's in this movie because Gamo puts him in almost all of his movies. But I do find its range that this white guy becomes the head of this like mafia in Hong Kong. Yeah, good point. Yeah, and there there's like there's another white guy in that same mob too. But it's like, I almost forgot to mention that among his like mobster pals is a woman

who has a shaved head. She is the baldest woman. She's not in charge. So I'm sorry to say that the loftist test does not apply. No, no, no, okay, let's rephrase. This movie fails the loftist. Yes, it's not that the test isn't correct. This movie fail sales. Yes, okay, sorry, sorry, But yeah, that's only one of a few other women you even see on screen who like in a close up sort of thing and not like an extra in

the background. There's also one more when pentecost is talking to the people, the politicians the beginning about the like the Yaga program and how it's failing. There is there's a woman. She does not say anything, but she's there, so I guess, good job, Pacific Rim. Yeah. Oh okay. One last thing I wanted to mention is that as I interpreted it, there is not a romantic storyline. We we did. We covered this in the third Chicken that

We'll do. So Jamie and I had a discussion after watching the movie about the possibility of this having a romantic storyline or not. So let's check in with that now. Well, we just finished watching a Pacific Rim, Yes pack ram as I like to call it. I think that it was funny and this movie, I think is maybe the first we've ever watched that goes for horny depth and fails. Oh because of the lack of chemistry between the two leads. They're given no lack of opportunity to appear attracted to

each other, but we'll never quiet hack it. I think, Well, does that have something to do with the fact that there's not a romantic relationships set up between them? But even then they don't seem to have like a platonic chemistry. That's true, I mean, I just my vibe was that you were supposed to be feeling like even though it wasn't as explicitly set up as most movies would have it be, where it's just like basically the female characters

like and you're going to fund me? Like I feel like we were supposed to think like, oh, yeah, they're into each other. I disagree. I never I think that that might because they were doing a bad job. Well, there maybe scenes between the two of them, like there was that scene where he's like you look good, or like they were they were little. There were always little moments that didn't quite connect between those two characters. So at the end when they're like nuzzling each other, it's

like have you met before? Like it's just weird. I don't know. I just I it struck me. And it maybe it was because like their lack of chemistry between the actors, but I don't know, I just it struck me as like their colleague. They're not setting up a romantic relationship between them, like they're just like if they're nuzzling in the closing shot of the movie, I would argue, so they're gonna like like if any two characters nuzzling,

Jamie we have had nuzzling had her own nuzzling. If you're closing on had her ow nuzzling, they're supposed to be into each other. But then they would have got a good movie, would have the movie would have made

them kiss. Then if it was like a here's no I think that that is like a trend right now, and we're like whatever, it might even be a forward thinking trend, but the trend right now and it happens to Guardians of the Galaxy to where it's like, here are these two characters who are very into each other, and the movie is pushing together a lot, but we're

not going to have them kiss yet. We're not. There's a lot of but as the audience, that's what that we as the audience feel that like sex, Yeah, because they're doing a good job. I don't know I would. I would argue I'm going to come to the defense of Pacific Room and say that the movie was not trying to establish a romantic connection between them and that instead end on I had her ownuzzle. Are you kidding me? There had her own with our Horny is living director.

But okay, so here's this. Here's what I think is that because they've mind melded, it brings them closer together. Okay, then why don't they look like friends. Look, I don't believe their friends get intimate moments eating when they were being dissed by everyone. Man friends. I don't know why I'm so stuck on this, but it's just like if the most they remember that scene where they ate together,

they didn't seem to dislike each other in that scene. Like, there's just I just think that they are two main people. I mean, Michael Moorey. I enjoy her as a character. I think she's disserviced in some ways, but I like the actress and I think she doesn't good job. But just like with this particular like fart of an actor, there's just he just gives you nothing to work with. It's like, yeah, this guy's got teeth. Sort of, I'm gonna,

I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna argue that we're so conditioned to seeing a female and male lead in a romantic situation or like building to a romantic connection that because we, I would argue, do not see that in this movie. The movie is not trying to establish that. That's maybe why it feels weird, maybe why we don't feel as other's chemistry. I would say that I'll meet you there's they're just establishing a friendship their colleagues. They've

mind melded and that brings them closer together. So maybe that's why it feels like maybe there could be a romantic in the middle. I'll meet you in the middle and say that maybe the movie is trying to have it both ways a little bit. We can also see in Pacific Room too, where we may find out what happened with that, you know what I mean? That's true that movie. They could have a baby. They could have just begotten really mad and never talked to each other again.

And the famous words of Charlie Day, it's pregnant. I think Rallie Beckett is a bad character who's boring and I think written out of the future. I think he's gay. I think that he and his gay partner adopt a baby, and Maco, because she's friends with him, helps babysit the baby. But if there is a baby, that those are the only circumstances. Yeah, I have to think more about the character moments in this movie, which is a cool looked movie. I have fun watch it well, I ever watched again.

No live from Aristol's house. Yeah, I've had a great time here tonight. We drank some champagne. We watched a long movie. It is I'm going to guess around one thirty am. I think it's two for sure. Oh my god, it's to eighteen and then we'll all reconvene soon to have the full episode. I can't wait, baby, and we're back. It's an interesting movie for for you. It was like, this is not this is never the kind of movie that I would gravitate towards anyways, But I end there's

a lot of parts that I enjoyed it. I just the sheer lack of women was hard. Well, as we already hinted at, the movie does not pass the Bechdel test. There's not even an opportunity, no opportunities, no scenes with women even close to each other, let alone interacting. All right, let's write the movie on our nipple scale five nipples

based on its portrayal of women. I think I'm going to give it a three because you do see a strong female character in Mako Mori, although not as much agency as I would like some agency, especially later on once she becomes one of the co pilots. You see her have a strong desire. Her desire is motivated. She's highly keep double and the people around her acknowledge that. And the reason that like her father figure, Atris Elba doesn't want her to be involved in this copilot program

is not because she's not capable. It's because he's basically just sort of protecting her and not wanting to send her to almost certain death. However, there are scenes where she could have had more agency that she doesn't because basically choices are made for her. There the scene where she does not get to contribute to the climactic moment

in the movie. I think it's great that it's a woman of color as the main female character, but because there's so few other women in the movie, the only other one of any sort of prominence is Sasha Kardinovski, who coin You'll you missed her name. Opportunities that could have been capitalized on for other female characters were just

totally missed. But I think because Marko Moray is a good, strong character that has inspired this test that we can apply to other movies, because I think it might to even be a more relevant test to the things we tend to talk about on this podcast. Than the Bechtel test. I like that this movie has inspired this test that I think is very applicable to our discussions. Very much agree. So, yeah, three nipples. I will give one of them to Maco.

I'm going to give one to Sasha, and I'm going to give my third nipple to the little the dog Max, who belongs to Hanson brother number one. Yeah, three nipples. I want to go one and a half, but I'm gonna go to. Okay, I'm going to go to because I do agree that it is net positive for the world that we get this test out of that comes

out of this movie. But I do think that this movie is also a reminder for me that the Bechtel test is very important, because this movie so glaringly fails, and I think we have a less good movie as a result of it failing the Bechtel test and not introducing more women into the narrative. I like Marco a

lot for all the reasons to say. I wish that she was given more screen time because I feel like she gets just about as much screen time as any I mean, although I could be mistaking two men for the same man and lumping them, I honestly don't know, get rid of those guys, replace them with people like yeah, exactly. It's really not that hard, and it truly logistically makes this movie easier to watch because it's so confused. Like watching this movie, Yeah, I liked, I like the movie.

I just it's just so frustrating seeing like when we have to have these discussions of like where we're really grasping at straws of like, well, we saw a woman, a she was there, she and it's important that we acknowledge it. But it's you just get Maco, and that's very that's very summer movie all over, of like a five million men and then one woman who kicks Granted, as far as a woman who kicks goes, Marco's fucking awesome.

And we have a backstory that we do we wouldn't normally have with the woman who kicks Trope, but I think she still sort of falls into that in some regards, especially when she's sidelined for her climactic scene, which is like, so you go too, I'm gonna give one to Maco and give one to Ron his little steampunk goggle nipple. I too, will give it three because I mean, I wish it could have done better, but I do like that a lot of attention and focus was given on Marco.

I wish we also got more attention on Sasha that we do get that great yell from her. She gives orders, but in their final moment you see them drowning and she's yelling out. But it's not like a scared or painful kind of thing. She's like fucking pissed. It's a whale of fury that I could so identify with. And so three nipples and give one to Atachi, the flying Kaiju.

One to leather back like spread. That was a great cool moment, another to leather back the big grilla ligand one and then went to baby Atachi, who died almost like minutes after being out of the womb. Uh cool. So Aristotle, thank you, our wonderful friend, our dear producer, Thank you for having he thanks for being here a long time coming. I know, Oh no, I totally understand. I get it. Um, We've been so glad to have you.

Let us know if you ever want to come back on and talk about a different movie or just hop on the freaking mic whenever that not with the chains that we do always tell you up yeah, but and since we watched fifty Shades, we've gotten really good at it. But any Garamma movie, I am happy. All right, We've got to do a Shape for Water episode. Where can people follow you online? Is there anything you would like to plug I do? You can follow me at al these tacos on everything A R I S Tacos, Twitter,

and Instagram. You can all follow Protein Press, which is the zine press I do with my friend Chris Saldania. Shout out to Chris, who has a Pacific Grim tattoo, and uh, we're supposed to get matching ones, but it's kind of a I don't know subject, no, Like I just don't have money for tattoos, and there's a lot of other tattoos. I wanna put a pigher on that list, So sorry Chris. But protein Press you can find all

our cool zines, which god damn it, I forgot. I was going to bring them today to give you all. That's okay, why you well, yeah, check out protein Press, check out our wonderful producer Aristotle on all the social media platforms. You can also do that for us. You can check us out back Toelcast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, go to our Patreon and subscribe to that. It's five dollars a month and you get too freaking bonus episodes. Just the one last final thing I want to say

is today we are canceling The Apocalypse. Best line in the movie ever. Thank you, Thank you, King Adris. Bye.