My Neighbor Totoro with Miles Gray

hit it home. I'll think about it. I've heard this song a million times and then it's it's this sort of thing where it's kind of Miyazaki's It's a small world where you're like, I appreciate where this song is coming from, but I do want to walk off a cliff because it's going to be following me around for the next, you know, six days. I'm having a good day today, but the rest of the week is going to be rough. I'm fine with it. I will be

fine with it. I just you know, when you hear like a little earworm like that and you're like, oh, this is awesome, but it won't be soon. But it won't be soon. Yeah. Anyways, Welcome to the Becktel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens. Ever heard of it? Yeah, And we use the Bechdel test

simply as a jumping off point. Most of the time we forget to pay attention to if the movie passes the Beck Doeld test or not, or at least I

do this one does? It does so much um and here done by the Bechtel test, of course, being a media metric created by queer cartoonists Else and Becktel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, in which our version that we use requires that two characters of a marginalized gender have names, and they speak to each other, and their conversation has to be about something other than a man, ideally for a at least two line exchange of dialogue,

and one that is narratively meaningful or irrelevant. Not a big deal for for this week, because we've got oh my gosh, it's it's my neighbor Totoro week. It's it's a part of our Miyazaki ongoing series. We are going to be kind of just like checking in with with Mr Miyazaki over the course of the next several years. So just a quick disclaimer, please don't yell at us. If this isn't your favorite of his movies, that's not our problem. Yeah, we'll get around to the others. I do.

There is sometimes a little bit where you're just like, oh my god. They're like, why didn't you We were talking about this on the kikiS episode. They're like, why not Princess Mononoka. I'm like, this isn't a personal vendetta against Princess Mononoke. She will be, But what if there was? What if Caitlin and Princess Mononoke word princess narrative? We quietly don't address it. We'll get around to other Miyazaki movies.

These are the three we chose for this year, and I think we're we're ending strong, strong movie and a strong guest who can see clearer than he's ever been able to see in his life. I mean that mentally and physically. He watched this movie with such clear vision. And that guest, of course, is co host of The Daily I Geist and for Twenty Day Fiance. You know him from such episodes as The Rock This Christmas, It's

Miles Gres. Thank you so much for having me. I'm always always honored and touched when you asked me to be on your very special show. Uh, and I hope to, you know, I just hope to continue my streak of good performances and good good dialogue discourse with you both. Everything's riding on this one. It's funny you just got so you just got LASIX surgery. I did. I was realizing as we were introducing you, we make it sound like we don't let most of our guests watch the

movie with clear vision. Yeah. Yeah, we we added an obstruction. It's like when you go to a show and you pay less money because you're sitting in front of a pole, Like damn, why was that on the ticket? Like? Wow? One half of the Phantom of the Opera was so good at the Pantages. That was okay, everything that's on stage right, So Miles, let's get right into it. What's your history with my neighbor Totoro And let's just say the Miyazaki Expanded Studio Jubilie World, Oh man, tot is

like one of my favorites. I don't know if you guys know this. I'm Japanese, okay, so yeah, I grew up watching a lot of Miyazaki cartoons and Toto was like one of those ones that came out when I was like four or five, So I remember was so big in Japan, like as it was coming out, and I remember seeing it on like tape. I remember seeing it like with my friend's house. It was me and a few other family friends were watching it. But Mononoke is like one of my other favorites, so yeah, I

probably would have been like Dooka calling in. But for me, yeah, total was like a very It's it's so pure and I just like that about it, and it's so Japanese. That's another thing I really like about it is a lot of American people don't always get it when they watch it or think it's good, you know, because it's just so different from like what most animation or most stories are about, like especially you know, Western American cinema type stuff. But yeah, it's like it's just one of

those things. It's like it's fucking Disney for us in Japan, all of it, the entire universe. But yeah, for me, totally like a thing that i've just I don't know, I've always liked, Like when I was a kid, I like stuffed animals and the scenes are like the scale of total little like as a kid, I was like, that's that's all I want. I just wanted a totoro friend. I just wanted I want a sentient pillow. Yeah, on

a big pillow that yells at me. And then and then called the bus was so cool and the cat bus. I've kind of forgot about the cat bus when the cat bush? Did you guys when you watched it? Were you watching it dubbed? Are you watching with subtitles? How do you? How do you take it in? So? I watched the English dub they like Disney one from two

thousand five the Fanning Sisters. Yes, but I grew up watching the original English dub, which I have a little anecdote about when we get into my history with the movie. I watched the first half of it in Japanese the other day and then I needed to take a nap, and then I just watched the Red not because I was just tired, but Rice, Okay, it's just tired. And then I um watched the rest of it in English. But I do want to go back and watch the

entire thing in Japanese with English subtitles. So I've never seen the Mizaki not in Japanese, which is so wild. When I was when you asked me to do it, I was like, oh, maybe I should, like I only know it in Japanese, like maybe I should just check it out. And part of me was like, no, I'm

just gonna watch. But yeah, so I'm always curious how people take it in Sure, I watched it with the dub first, and then I watched the original Japanese version second, and I liked I mean, I liked them both, but I always, I mean, it's always better to watch a movie not dubbed, Like even if the dub is pretty good, which I thought the fanic Sister dub is like it's fine, it's it's cute, but it's always wait, oh that's what you meant that Wait what it's Dakota and Dakota and

l inning when they were like like eleven and seven. So this is my other thing with my personal issue in me zacky stuff. I have no idea what's happening with it in the US, like I don't whenever I hear about it, it's because I'm hearing about it through my cultural pulse in Japan versus like, how it's happening here? So I have not had no fing idea that Ellen Dakota Fanning, We're okay, good now, now I might have to hear it. It was I thought l Fanning especially

did a really really good jobs as May. She was really cute. Um and the Ursula the Sea Witch does Granny, Pat, Carrol and Carol. So oh shit, Okay, it's a fun dub cast. Yeah, it's it's reverberating with my American brain now, I'm like, okay, I know those voices and those are iconic. That's good casting right there. It's fun cast. Yeah. And then the only other and then we don't mean it's it's just a very Disney casting. But they did cast Um Scooby Doo as Totoro and the cat Bus, Frank Welker,

Frank Welker, icon legend king Scooby himself. Um, Jamie, what is your history in relationship with Totru? Uh? Not very extensive. I think that I saw this movie maybe once or twice as a kid. As I was watching it back, I'm like, no, I don't. I've definitely seen this before. Um, I guess I would have been seeing I don't know, it could have been either of the dubs, because that there was a dub done in three and then again

in two thousand and five. I don't really remember. I remember really liking it, but I was just such a kikiS delivery service stand that if we were going to watch a Miyazaki movie, Kiki was always going to be my choice. But it was really really fun to watch. I've never I don't think I had seen it as an adult, and it was fun to go back and watch as an adult. It's just like the sweetest, most perfect, thoughtful movie. I don't know, I just really love it.

It's beautiful, it is. It feels it truly. It just feels like, uh, I don't know, a blanket. It feels like a Totoro is hugging you. It does. It does. It's so well because it's like, oh, I sort of associate sometimes. I've like, every time I see Totoro, I'm like, what is there a sale at Hot Topic because Miyazaki stuff is so popular there. Like I think of Totoro as being in the window of Hot Topic when I

walked by at the Glendale Galleria. But he's so much more well It's funny because like it was just a when it first came out, like they were not really interested in marketing it at all in the US because there's so much that people like they're bathing together like wet, like that was a huge thing that a lot of the studios I think want to take it out, like in the American versions of it, but like as a character like in Japan, like to total is like visually

so like iconic that it's funny that here it's sort of distilled into like only fandoms of people who are like really an animal and stuff that. Yeah, like it's more of a topic when it should be. I mean it should be. It should be coming down the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. I mean, I mean it probably has has he I feel like he should. I was like,

I hope, so wait, I gotta look into this. Did you know that as far as licensed merchandise sales, this movie has made one point one billion US dollars in revenue from licensed merchandise. Not surprise at all. That's like globally, I think, Yeah, So honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised if it were even higher, because I feel like most people who even if you haven't seen this movie, you

know who what he looks like. Yeah, but it's it is great because it's like the sort of iconography where the story also like lives up to it, where the story is so beautiful. And we were talking about this with kikiS too, but like this era of Miyazaki movies are like fantastic, but also it's very very grounded where it's like, oh, yeah, this is a story about kids trying to adjust to a new home and having a sick parent, Like that's just like dealing with really really

heavy stuff. And then also and cat Bus and it's not like, oh my god, the nuclear power plant is coming to tear down to Toto's home and we have to save it, which is like what I think most kids story like we're used to, is like what's the gigantic fucking behemoth conflict and like who's the bad guy and who's the good guy? And I think that wasn't I remember as a kid, Like I've seen it with like an American friend of mine, and they just they did They're like this is dumb, Like I mean it is.

There's so he gave them the umbrella and he didn't even know what to say. It just drew all ruism. You wouldn't fucking know about that because this country's fun, right, there's selective values. It's like it's a character driven story in the way that most children's media or like family

media is not very character driven. There's always especially for like American media, like intended for like children and family audiences, it's always like some yeah, some big comment, like you know, you're like fern Gully, they're tearing down the rainforest kind of thing of friend Gully though, same, you know, the

stories like that are perfectly valid as well. But I do love that of the Miyazaki movies I've seen, they're all just like kind of quiet character studies that also have really cool fantasy elements and uh mythology incorporated in the narratives and beautiful imagery of course, but they're just like, and what if we just kind of examine the lives of these two sisters for ninety minutes and it's wonderful.

What's your history with this movie? Yes? Um, I watched this movie every time I went to visit my grandmother, and it is the only fond memory I have of spending any time with my grandmother, who was a terrible person. Um, but it's fine because I have Totoro because thank you, okay, swop it out, um. But she had it on VHS. So that was just like the activity there was to do at my grandma's house. And why did she have

total I'm not sure. That's like just so I guess those things are really interesting to me because I feel like most grandparents, like American grandparents, have like the soft box Disney VHS tapes at their house, you know, like get real dirty and stinky. Yeah, exactly, sticky and just covered in nonsense, whereas like your grandma's like I'm cultured, man, you want some you want some Miyazaki ship, which is hilarious because my grandma was also otherwise completely uncultured. Um

and like a Fox movie scary person. I'm here to get my grandma's on this episode. But so anyway, uh, that was like my favorite movie that she had on VHS at her place, because she did have a couple other you know, I think, like Disney movies and stuff like that. But I was like, I we didn't have Toto at home, so I was like, this is my chance to watch it, and I just fell in love with it, especially because the dynamic between the two sisters was very similar to the dynamic I had with my sister.

I I'm like the older sister. I'm three years older than my sister Sarah, and it was like a very similar like she looked up to me the way that May looks up to Sotsky. I had to like look out for my younger sister the way that Satsky has to look out for May. A lot of the time. I also lived in a very rural area and was always just like trapesing around the woods and stuff like that. I so desperately wanted to go into the woods and find a Totoro friend and be best friends, and like

this was a fantasy I had as a kid. I wanted so badly to ride around on a cat bus. Like this movie connected with me in a very major way as a kid, and then I kind of fell off of it as I got into my teen years and stuff. But I've rediscovered it as an adult a couple years ago, and I was like, all right, this is like the best movie ever made. I love it so much. Um, I do have a little Totoro enamel pin that I will and I'm also thinking about getting a Totoro tattoo. We'll see. Oh yeah, you kind of

tattoo bene this year. I'm cool. Now you get a bunch of tattoos. What are the tattoos you get? I got a Titanic one. Oh dope. I got a quote from Paddington too. If we are kind of polite, the world will be right. And I got the mad Max Fury Road or rig within the past year, dude, And then you need the Neco bus coming at the mad Max Fury Road just straight up head on collision. Whatever. I don't know. Look, I'm not here to you know that it's your man and your tattoo artists, you know,

between your tattoo artists. I'm making the appointment right now. I'm sure there's got to be like a Nyazaki like specialist tattoo, right, because I know there's like Sip like that for Disney tattoo. Right. Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure there is. Okay, should I do the recap of my neighbor totor? Please? Do? Let's do it, Okay. We meet Satsky and her younger sister May. They are traveling with their dad, Mr. Kusakabe to their new house in the

countryside of Japan. I think the year is like nineteen five. I read it's postwar in rural Japan. On the way, they run into some neighbors, including a young neighbor boy who we will learn his name is Conta. They all arrive at their new house and start exploring outside. They notice a huge tree in the nearby forest. Their dad

tells the girls it's a camphor tree. Inside the house, they find a bunch of acorns, and they also see a bunch of little black dust bunnies or like dust gremlins that seem alive and sentient, and they scatter when you turn on the lights. They're similar to Spirited Away. Yes, yeah, the footballs in Spirited Away exactly. Satski in May search

for more of these little dust spirits. Their neighbor granny comes by and she's like, oh, yeah, those are soot spreaders, and she mentions that their house is possibly haunted, but that that's not like a bad or scary thing. Everyone's excited about them living in a haunted house. We see Stotsky May and their dad cleaning the house and settling in, and then one night we see the soot spirits float away into the night sky. The family then heads into town to visit Satsky and May's mom, who is in

the hospital. She is ill, but she's been feeling better and will hopefully be able to come home soon. Then Satsky goes off to school and May stays home because she's not old enough for school yet, so she's just kind of occupying herself around the house. She finds a trail of acorns, which she follows that leads her to this little spirit, This little white, fluffy thing with kind of pointy bunny like ears, just a little friend, just

a little friend, is translucent. It's bobbing around, and May starts following it, but loses it for a moment, But then she sees it again, and a bigger spirit bobbing around. This one's blue and white, and it's carrying a bag of acorns, and May follows them both into the woods and into the depths of this giant camphor tree that they saw, where she meets Totoro, who is the maximum of Totara, the biggest Toto, biggest you've seen thus far. Yes, the chars are of Yes, he's big and furry, He's

so cute. I would die for Toto and I would kill for Totoro. Holy shit, every time Totoro is, he does a lot of like ah, like he yells a lot, and every time I see to yelling, I think it's very like sweet. The kids are like not afraid of that. If I was a kid, I would be crying, uh, giant teeth, big old I was like, okay, if if may slip even a little. But but I was always like almost have like pretty good breath. I'm always thinking

about like what does this breath smell like? Because that because even if you're not afraid of the big old teeth, you would think that the breath might not be good. He was sleeping, but maybe what breath smell like? He's fresh. Those are like these weird story tropes that are like reinforced that we like expect right Like as kids were like, oh, the thing, the giant thing is showing its teeth and in my you know history of looking at stuff as

it kid like, that means danger. Usually if a big thing shows you its teeth, and I was like, and the kid is not afraid, okay, weird oh And then the other thing would be like pu is like the next thing like like these sort of storytelling habits that were used to like and that wasn't there. And I'm like, so this big fucker was like had pleasant breath and the teeth were I mean, teeth were beautiful, they were

immaculates and hygiene. Yeah, well it's because we've seen like Shrek. Okay, and Shrek keeps coming up these last couple of weeks. Shrek keeps coming up. But there's that scene in Shrek where like he's baring his teeth and he's scaring off like the villagers and you see like all this goo come out of his mouth and everyone's like Shrek. And then later Donkey he's like you need a mint and stuff like that. So wild, but this is nothing like Shrek.

Toto is fresh. It goes against everything total. It blows up everything we thought about big creatures exactly, true, pleasant, smelling, docile as hell. It's true. And then May it's just like, all right, I think I'm gonna take a nap. She becomes best friends with Totoro and the other little Totoro's. Toto's just kind of like napping and chilling, and yeah, he wakes up and he yells a little bit but she's like, I love that for you and we are

best friends. She's like, oh that's your name. Cool, good night, all right. And then later that day, Satsky comes home from school and finds my eeping in the middle of the woods and she wakes up and she's like, where's Totoro. He was right here and he's my best friend. And Stotski and their dad are like, we believe you, and also we should go give the foest spirits a proper greeting. So they go into the woods and pay their respects to the Camphor tree. But the opening that May had

kind of tumbled into where she found Toto is now closed. Um, and their dad is like, oh, it's probably because the fourest Spirits don't want to be seen right now. And then Stotsky is all bombed out because she wants to see Totoro and friends too. Then Stotsky goes to school ps that neighbor boy Kanta is there in class with her and he has a big crush on Stsky. And then May shows up to the schoolhouse. I love this part,

it's so sweet. So Granny is babysitting May because their dad is I think in Tokyo teaching at a university, and May wants to be with Stotsky, so she stays at school with Stotsky until the end of the day, and then on the walk home from school, it starts raining heavily. Kanto walks by gives them his umbrella because again he loves Stotsky. It's very cute. And then Satsky and May return home and notice that their dad left his umbrella, so they head out to meet him at

the bus stop. Um they returned Kanta's umbrella on the way, and at the bus stop they wait. They wait, their dad's bus isn't coming, but then who does show up but Totoro. May has fallen asleep, but Stotsky has a fun interaction with him. He gives them this little pouch of acorns, and then a cat bus shows up. Totro gets on the bus that is also a cat and it runs off just takes a different line than them exactly.

Satsky in May return home. They plant the acorns in their mom's garden, but nothing grows until one night when Toto shows up with his little totos and they all raise their arms and their umbrellas and their leaves up in the sky and then the seeds start to sprout and another huge camphor tree grows. It's so that scene is beautiful, just beautiful, so beautiful, and sounds so beautiful,

and the music in this movie is incredible. Um. And then Toto gets on this flying top and he and Sot sky in May and the little Toto's fly around and play instruments, and the next morning the tree is not there, but the little seedlings have started to sprout. I just love how whimsical the description is. And I'm like, yeah, I love this, Like and they take a magical top to the highest tree and they play their instruments under the moonlight, you know, And I'm like, oh man, that

was great, awesome. Everything in this like the I don't know, like there's there's plenty of moments where in this movie where things are urgent, but like how urgency is conveyed in Miyazaki movies is just different. And even with like little things where how granny Granny brings made a school because she's like, yeah, I don't know, she just like I just wanted to come to school, sorry, And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess why not. And then

the teacher is just like very sweet about it. It's like, yeah, come in and like it just these things that again I think myles are totally right of just like these story conventions, you don't even realize that, like you expect of something being a big conflict and then it's like, no,

let's just deal with it. Our instinct is like, oh no, like you can't have your sister at school, right, And then like it's completely inverted and the teachers like their mother is really sick, you know, and it's a terrible situation. Please everyone be really kind to them. Okay, yeah, and everyone and all the kids are like, yep, than they are right. I feel like in most Western movies that would have there would have been like some kid with frosted tips that was like your mom is what her

head right? Right? What the fuck? Like it's like, no, most kids are pretty sweet. That's very thoughtful. And then they get a telegram from the hospital their mom was supposed to come home that weekend, but she's not feeling well so she can't come home anymore, which really upsets May and Stsky. Satsky kind of takes out her upset on May and calls her a baby and tells her

to grow up. And then May sets off without Stotsky knowing, presumably to go to the hospital to take their mom and ear of corn to make her feel better, which is so sweet. And then when Satsky realizes that May is gone, and like law us, she starts frantically running around trying to find her. The whole village is looking

for her. Everyone's worried that May might have died. And then Stotsky goes to Toto's tree and asks if he can help her find May, and Toto is like, of course, I'll except without using words, but he is more than happy to help. Yeah. He Toto summons his cat bus friend and Stotsky gets inside cat bus and cat bus is like, next stop May, and then they race across the countryside until they reach May. She and Stotsky reunite.

It's really nice, and then cat bus takes them to the hospital where they kind of watch their mom through the window and she's doing fine. And then Stotsky and May ride back home in cat bus and there's like a few kind of like credit images, is of like their mom returning home and them all spending time together and Toto is doing stuff in the woods, Granny's relieved. Everyone is happy that made save yes, and it's beautiful

and that's the story. So let's take a quick break and we will come right back to discuss and we're back. Uh man, It's but Carolin and I were texting before we started recording. We're like every I liked everything there starting with I mean the and this is something not because this is our third episode in Miyazaki movies, you know, we again we have girls centered in the story, and

specifically in this one. I think it's kind of like a bonus because it's like two sisters relating to each other, and you know, they are in conflict almost constantly because their siblings, and that is how that works. Um, but you can also tell like there's this huge genuine love between them, like there's it's it's just so like, I

don't know, presented matter of fact. It's like effortless how Miyazaki is able to center kids and kids stories and then relating to each other and also like prioritizing girls, which is um in a in a just a very matter of fact way where this could have easily been brothers or a brother and a sister. You're kind of any combination of siblings and yeah, totally, I think it's great, perfect no notes. Um, yeah, and especially the relationship between

the sisters, it felt again so authentic. It felt very reflective of like the relationship dynamic between me and my younger sister, although I was far less patient and supportive of my younger sister as a because I was a little asshole, But um, I love that you see like a version of a sibling dynamic where the older sister is very patient and is very supportive and the younger

sister clearly looks up to Stsky. But again, this is not without conflict, and the conflict that does exist between them feels very authentic, and everything is just happening very organically, despite they're also being like forest spirits that they are always on the lookout for and like hoping to meet

and interact with. And I remember like the part where they go to pay the respects at the Camphor tree and the idea of like your younger sister getting to see something or do something before you the older sibling, and like when Satsky is all like, oh, but I want to see Toto too, and I was like, oh, I know what that feels like. Because anytime, like my sister got to do something and I didn't, I was like, oh,

what the Yeah. But it's just like it's these little moments that are captured in the movie and just like watching the way the characters handle them and just like showing these just everyday moments that are just like so familiar and beautiful and cool, things like the corn, like the like Mom's going to sleep in my bed and like brush my hair and like just like thive. You know, it's like there's an order, get in line. Okay, Mom's brushing my hair first. And plus it's wavy like hers

used to be assholes. Sit down. Yeah, yeah, it's so great there. Yeah, there is something just the pacing of very Japanese too, you know, of just going to set the table set that just like really anchor it wherever you are. And for me, like you're saying, there are a lot of familiar things that you saw me spending so much time as a kid in Japan, like in the summer too, like where a lot of this is

taking place was really fun to see. And there's so many of these like little moments that he shows that are like are really just even from animation or sense memories, like when they're going up to the attic to to go up the stairs, like the way may comes down the stairs like slowly, or they go up them climbing them is because staircases are so steep in Japan. They're like fucking ladders basically that like when you're a kid, like you don't have the fucking balance to be like

confidently walk upstairs. You're gonna like crawl step by step

to get up because you could fall down. Like I remember falling downstairs as a kid because it was they were too steep, and like watching you know, the kids navigate the steps was like a thing that I'm like, oh shit, like yes, like you know, especially as I watch it again because it's been at least ten years since I've seen this after like till we watched it recently um or then like falling asleep in the summer like on like the tatami floor just like passed out

because you're hot and your kid and you just fucking just just knock out because it's hot. And the long playing of like the cicadas like just sort of you know, singing. There's are just such like very you know, specific things, but they're done so like you know, they're very effortless and it's just like and here we are just showing you these slices of life, but each single one, like every I don't know that they're they're really efficient in

what they convey every single time. It's like not a wasted frame really in that sense, right, Yeah, and yeah, I love that attention to detail to some like very specific Japanese things, but that like also feel familiar to anyone watching the food again there. We talked about this in kikiS as well, but anytime that there's food prepared in a Miyazucky movie there, there's just like such attention

to detail and you get hungry. Yeah, you're like, oh that I could I could hear those vegetables being chopped properly, like oh like when they trenched down on the cucumbers, and like I was watching it with you know, my wife, and when they were putting you know, my wife come circle circle and she loves cucumbers. But for me, like seeing there's like a very folkloric image in Japan of

like putting vegetables in a cold stream. Like that's like a very like it's like even used in marketing They're like, this is how fresh these vegetables are. Man, They're in a bamboo basket in this like stream. Like that's like, you know, like the version of like in America, like the Heartland type stuff like in Japan, Like this cooling stream has brought these fresh vegetables out. And she was like, is that that's that's real? And like I mean if

you live by one, yeah for sure. It's like I want to river cucumber and I'm like, yeah, we all do, we all do. But it's so refreshing someday. And the way even like the granny is like, oh, I think they're ready, like there what like there's even a perfect time and that you like I thought we were just cooling them off in this dream. Okay, granny knows is awesome. A couple other things about the relationship between the sisters that again just like felt very grounded and relatable and authentic.

I guess just the idea of like Stsky kind of having to take on a somewhat like mothering and caregiver role for both her younger sister May and their dad.

And I feel like that's such a relatable thing for a family dynamic like that where the mom is absent for whatever reason, and it's like the the eldest siblings responsibility to kind of take on a lot of that, maybe like domestic short stuff and because we see Saltsky, you know, preparing lunches for everybody and again just always looking out for may you know, bringing dad the umbrella

he forgot kind of thing. Because we talk about like female characters doing domestic things in movies, especially in like American or Western movies, and the way that's often presented as a way of like, well, of course, because women do domestic stuff, But in a story like this, the way it's presented, it's just like, well, of course, like these things need to be done, and Sotsky is the one to do them because she It's just like that's

just kind of what makes sense. Although I guess you could make the argument that like why isn't there Dad doing more stuff and why does he always seem to

be not knowing where his kids are? But I sort of thought that, like I do think that some of that it has to do with like the nineties, where I like where it kind of like pings for people of our generation to be like, why are these kids just wandering around right, but sure all of our parents were like just allowed to wander around but before the internet and everyone was like everyone's a murderer right right right there, like just be back a sunset, which I'm

just like wild that you all made it good for you. It seems risky, but um, but I thought that they threaded the needle of the dad sort of having to operate as a single dad for a period of time, A think, pretty pretty realistically where it's like he's definitely not killing it, where it's like and they added in those moments of like he forgot about lunch and like he's trying to bat like he's it's single parents, single dad,

stuff that you don't see often on screen anyways. And also I think that it's like especially I mean I think you usually see it with single mothers, but like the single parent portrayed as like a superhero too, when it's like no, it's like fucking hard and you know things are going to be dropped and that's not fair to either of the children, certain and like certainly not Satzky, who has to kind of pick up the slack. But I did, I mean, you do see the dad trying

he's doing laundry with them. He's cooking some of the time and then like kind of phoning it in other times.

It just felt like a thoughtful portrayal. And also it's like, of course he wouldn't have been used to doing everything, because we know that it's a relatively new situation that their mother isn't well, it's like he's getting used to in patriarchy out there, gender roles even now, like in Japan, I mean it's it's it's not you know it, those those roles are pretty defined, so like in that way, like, yeah, I'm sure their dad was a little bit like oh

boy cooking, whereas like I feel like the modern version now would be like I'm just gonna go to the convenience store where I can get everything pre made and like and like when you see like modern sort of like Japanese dramas of like bumbling dad kind of thing, it's like everything's bought at the store like that. It just has to be microwaved, is the person now, because men don't got no cooking skills. But their dad's also like so sweet and wonderful with them, and there's trying

he's trying. A scene that really struck me was the scene where where May has just befriended the Totoro's but then like falls asleep, and when she wakes up, she's kind of closer to the house and the totoroes are gone, and she's like, I swear I saw them. They were right here, and I'm not lying. This is not a lie, and both Saski and her dad are like, we believe you, and in fact, probably the reason they're not here anymore is that they don't want to be seen, but let's

go pay our respects. And then they go to the camphor tree and to the shrine and they say thank you for looking after May. And again we are so conditioned by American media, where if this happened in a Western story, it would be like, no, I swear I saw Totoro and the elder sister and the parents would be like, yeah, right, you silly little kid, you fool. Those things aren't real and we don't believe you, and it would take so long into the story, right, and

then she cos out. She's like, Totals my boyfriend, now, Total just got out of jail for stealing catalytic converters, and he got a tear drop tattoo because he had to shank a snitch Like what yeah, and I'm hooked on jewel pods Dad, whatnot? So it's like euphoria at euphoria high. Uh. I mean, and that goes back to the very beginning when both of the kids are like we live in a haunted house and Dad is like

awesome dream right. Yeah, it's like this parental like jiu jitsu where it's like the children's energy like I or like aikido, like I'm gonna just redirect it right back at you in a positive way because I think again, it's almost like as a Western and writer, there's no way you'd write a scene where a little kid sees a mythical creature, tries to tell the adults and then

they're like, oh wow, cool, right, that's great. It's normally like that's like this like habitual storytelling thing we're used to. It's like, well, this is what happens when you tell the adults about the mythical thing. They don't fucking believe you, and in fact, they're going to tell you they're gonna ridicule you, yeah and gaslight you and be like that's not what you saw or you know whatever, Yeah, which is so interesting to see like over and over there

these moments. I'm sure if you're watching, like only watching like Western cartoons or storytelling, like you see this like what the fund was supporting as dad and teacher and classmates.

It's so refreshing. It's it's really nice, so nice. And then I wanted to jump back to part of what especially worked for me about like the even though Sotsky has to take on some kind of like caregiver slash domestic chores, you know, picking up that black that worked for me, especially because she's still allowed to be a kid and so many of the scenes and like the story doesn't make her into this like that you know, precocious child thing where she's wise beyond her years and

she's abandoned any semblance of being a kid because she's still like wants to see the spirits and she gets to see them, and she's young enough that she's able to because it's implied that like adults can't see the totoros or the cat bus or anything like that, they just like perceive it as a gust of wind when the cat bus is running by. But she's young enough to be able to see and you're like, oh, is that what Polar Express stole it from? Is it Polar

Express stealing cat bus starting a beef? But yeah, she's like she she has this you know, like childlike curiosity and imagination and all these you know, childlike qualities that are appropriate for her age. And even like her parents comment on, like, yeah, she does act super grown up,

but like, you know, she's still just a kid. And um, we see that scene where they learn about her their mom not being able to leave the hospital, and they're both really upset by it, but like May responds in a way that's that tracks for a much younger like a four year old, where she like cries and you know doesn't really know how to comprehend this because she had this idea, Oh, Mom's coming home and I'm going to get to see her, where Satsky has a clearer

understanding of what must be going on, but she's still upset by it, and she ends up kind of like catastrophizing. She's like, well, what if Mom's already dead and and I'm gonna yell at my younger sister and call her baby and tell her to grow up. And it's just like again a very like appropriate reaction for whatever, like a nine or ten year old however however old Satsky

is supposed to be. But like, I don't know, I just love that, like she was able to like still be a kid and like her her choices and actions and behaviors still attract for the kid that she is. So yeah, I just loved it. Yeah. I mean it's like in watching her finally reached that breaking point. And like the Another aspect of this movie that I really love is the like community aspect where it seems like

class wise, I was like, oh, this is interesting. I should have done more research on the exact moment that this is depicting. UM, But you know, they're kind of like a I guess like middle class to some extent family. They've moving into a countryside sort of lower income area. The only way that attention is really called to it is that on um, like harvest days, some of the kids who go to the school have to work, so

there's no school and Um Satsky doesn't do that. She's she's like new here and doesn't participate in that area of it. But that's how they end up meeting Granny, who immediately just like becomes this extension of their family in a way that's like and I really loved that when Satsky does reach her breaking point, that like it's Granny who's there for her and like hugs her and it's like, don't worry, I'll stay and it just what

an angel. I loved Granny and I just love in general how their community is there to support the girls kind of like no questions asked, um. Where again it's like in in Western media, I feel like you would get more slammed doors, um, and that just doesn't happen. Oh, your sister's missing chasing a totoro. Yeah, alright, shut, that's what it is, Hi, I need help, fuck you kind of the dynamic we're conditioned to I need help fuck you. Yeah.

Now it's like I need help. Let me strip down to my very traditional Japanese underwear and get the bamboo pulls out because we found the sandal by the pond. Yeah, it's so And I guess that's what's so interesting too, is like I grew up. It's it's interesting to have these dualities, like even in my mind, I grew up very much thinking like a like graized Japanese, where like neighbors look after you. You You you help each other. Like it's very community oriented. It's always about putting the the

group before yourself first. Obviously too detrimental levels at times societally, but like on the other side, which Americans so much like you know, got to take care of yourself. You know, you gotta figure it out, you know, we figure stuff out here, yourself up by your bootstraps and yeah, and like not to say that there's no sense of community, but the way our stories are told, it's usually about

an individual triumphing despite everything. That's not always like look at these people come together and think this is how life is for us, Like it's always like no, man, despite all the fuck use, they figured it out. And that just shows you how strong you gotta because everyone's gonna say fuck you, like on your way there. And

in the US sometimes that's very true. Right, And then in this story it's about like a community rallying together and like everyone's looking for May and the third act of this movie and then you have Totoro is an extension of that community to the spiritual community like also shows up for them and this like no questions asked kind of way fucking mutual aid group. You know what I mean. It's like, let me hit up the neco bus fucking faction real quick. They're really good at finding

lost people. Great group of activists. They'll be here and don't worry about it. We protect us, okay, Stsky, we protect us. That's how this works. And tot was part of the community because everyone respects there's no fear the spirits and the Totoro was in the capital, like everyone's just like, yeah, it's awesome that this house is haunted, and yes we have to go pay our respects to

the spirits who look out for us. And there's even like a line to that's like, again, if you were this was like a Pixar film, right, if the little like there would have been a boy or a child who cried wolf moment, if someone got lost in the community got together and even bother to look they're like, it's not even her sandal, What the hell I could have blah blah blah, And there would have been a lot of grum Yeah exactly like the next time you

needed help. That would have been a barrier to that character to have been like, well, I can't ask because the last time because there is in the Japanese version. There might be in the subtitled or dubbed version where they're saying like, it's okay, you know, that's just what we gotta do, like it could have been anybody, and like that was like the sentiment that the groups like, yeah, there was some frustration, but at the end of it, they're like, no, it's all right, like whatever, like this

is what we get, is what it is. There is that part where someone's like when it and out to not be maze sandal in the pond, Someone's like, it's okay, Granny just caught carried away again. It's like that made me sad. They're like that, They're like treating this older woman, this hysterical old woman, like that she's still missing, like what do you where what? They're like, oh my god, Like she was right to be concerned. All right, did you call cat bus? Okay? Then why are we You

didn't call cat bus? That's the first call you make, your first call, you make a missing kid, You called cat bus fucking time. Oh my god. Alright, I love Granny. Granny fucking rules and I feel like Granny and Totto are like the two strongest allies of the girls in their neighborhood, but everyone's their ally and then like it. It is like such Anta Conta. I love that. Okay, let's let's let's switch to Conta world, because I thought that that was yet another thing that in a you know,

he has a crush on Stsky. It's really sweet, but it doesn't like it just kind of is like there doesn't need to be in a way that felt like really age appropriate for those characters that would be whatever, like fifth or sixth grade aged where it's like, I have a crush, I'm just gonna act weird and be helpful and like, and Satsky also clearly doesn't know what to do with it, and it's just like, Okay, it's going to be a very sweet friendship. Like I just

I loved it. Yeah, I like to that. Like the male character in this Is in the beginning just reduced to grunting and groaning, like this motherucker didn't even have lines. He's like for Granny from mom, Like, okay, bro, it's just like the silent baker husband in kikiS Delivery Service. We're at the end, You're like, oh he can talk, wow, okay ye, like and great, I love that because he doesn't need to do much more than that, Like we get it just from his very efficient groaning and you know,

one word, simple sentences. Yeah, and she's like, thank you, thank you, You're so good. That reminds me so much of like, yeah, my like best friend growing up, where we were just like had crushes at each other, but we were also just like never mind, and then we would just be like, oh, it's your litter, like shake hands or whatever. Yep, let's take another quick break and

then we'll come back for more discussion and we are back. Um, shall we talk about another way that this movie kind of inverts Western tropes that that I am conditioned to expect, which is how the mom has treated in this movie.

I thought, again, just like a very thoughtful and interesting way of having because we most movies that you know, if you grew up watching Disney Renaissance movies, you're used to a mother's absence, but in a way that is barely acknowledged, and it's almost like she was just like whoop, Like her absence is I don't know, like that's like the trophiest thing in the world. We've we've talked about it to death on this show. In this movie, you

do have a mother who is mostly absent. They don't they do not kill her off, um, but she is sick. And but what you're bracing for I think as a Western story watchers like when's a mom gonna die? Because you know, that's how the characters become interesting or I was always like, I think ever since Bambi, I'm like, the mom's gonna die, Mom's gonna die. Being a mother is a huge liabilita in children's media. It's just like

you can't you're you're fucked. But but in this I I love how it's handled where I think that like story wise, what their mom's absence brings out is the fact that their dad isn't quite ready to be a single parent, doesn't really know what he's doing, but it's like trying his best in a way that like subverts I think usually in the Western trump you see the dad doubled down on having to be a single parent by being really mean and really aggressive and very like

I'm gonna destroy your grotto full of forks or whatever the fuck. Um. And this not only is the mom alive, but her relationship to her children is like I thought, really well developed and like I really loved her, and then at the end they're like she's gonna get better, and you're like, oh, she gets to live lives. Yeah,

it's weird that that fields like such. Ah, not even necessarily like a deliberate subversion of because like you know, like Miyazaki is Japanese, He's telling stories from his Eastern perspective. I don't think he's like looking at American media and like I have to consciously subvert this. He's just like

telling stories from his culture and point of view. It's just better storytelling, right, Yeah, but it just like feels from a Western point of view, like, Wow, you can have stories without all this contrived conflict and it still works as a compelling narrative. And that's what watching all these Miyazaki movies, that's like been my experience covering them

and watching them. It's just like, oh, you can have a compelling slice of life story about girls and their relatable struggles and their adventures that also often incorporates elements of fantasy, much of which is rooted in East Asian and Jack needs mythology, Like there's a lot of Shinto symbology in my neighbor Totoro, which I don't know an awful lot about, but based on some research I was doing, you know, that's a big part of Totoro, and you

know the narrative that plays out. Uh. But yeah, like we've talked about on other Miyazaki movie episodes we've done recently, it's just so refreshing to watch these stories that are both culturally specific and universally relatable because they are about girls experiencing life and they're learning and growing and making mistakes and discovering their strengths and navigating the world around them and forming bonds and making friends and having sisters

and having families and all the stuff that everybody experiences. And I like that you get a little moment of the parents talking to each other too, just felt like a rare, nice look into their relationship, and um, their daughters are watching their parents like love each other and watching their I mean, I just feel like for children of divorce, you're like, well, great for the sure, yeah, yeah, that totally happens all the time at my house too.

But it was just so sweet to like have that moment of their kids see that mom is doing better and that they're getting along and it's just like it's

such a gentle conclusion to the movie. I really loved it. Yeah, And I think it's like, you know, the for when like Miyazaki grew up like he's he was born like in so like you know, in a way, this kind of reflects his own childhood, I'm sure, because they talk about how his own mom like really informed a lot of the characters because his mom had like long term illness and was in the hospital and then came home. So like I think there there's like some biographic goal

sort of energy to that portrayal. But yeah, there there's I think and that I think just in like growing up. You know, my mom was born in seven. Like growing up like right after World War two in Japan was like you know, it's like it was on an upward trajectory because you're basically rebuilding the country after the war.

But I think on some level you wanted like nice stories or there's something about you know, this yearning media, Yeah, like for a pleasant ending two things, especially through a child's lens when you're probably looking a lot of adults who have a ton of you know, been through a ton of ship just from everything that's happened like in

the country. But yeah, like I think all of those they're so realistic, even though like for me, like you know, my parents marriage wasn't the most pleasant thing, but like you kind of see those moments you're like, yeah, no, that's that does feel real, even though I may not have seen it, but that feels like real and is nice. Other people have experienced that, I'm sure, Yeah, I mean many other people. I'm like that, Wow, fantastic giving me

the imagination for something, well do you give them? Um? Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? Uh? No, I just I just think that this is like a really beautiful, thoughtful, sweet movie that I don't know, like just everything that is great about this movie is I feel like it has everything to do with it being so effortless and like just letting What I've loved about this chunk of Miyazaki movies that we've covered is that they're all sort of centered around letting kids be curious

and like taking their curiosity about the world around them seriously, even though it's like sometimes you know, if you watch it back as an adult, you're like, oh, I can see how you know, Like this is like could be a metaphorical projection of A B and C. But you all also can watch it as a child or an adult and be like, this is all real, Like it

just is so cool. I love that he just like and and that he I guess that um, I was reading a little bit about his writing process and that may was like pulled from his own nieces sort of

attitude about the world, and just like that. I just think it's it's great and it's even better to see young girls curiosity centered in a movie, because that doesn't happen a lot without it coming with like a really tact on love story, or like their curiosity starts as curiosity, but then it somehow ends in the suddenly suddenly she's living with a beast in a castle, even though she

wanted to explore. Boy needs save Boy needs save, right, right, And that's like the only place that a woman's curiosity can leave at lead as fixing him, or it leads you to a place that now requires boy need to save you like what you did getting all curious and

ship right right? Yeah, I feel this like aame way, you know, it's as a child, it captured me because it presented no obstacles to me narratively, like in terms of being like man and you who knows, man, one day you might fucking find a total just this thing didn't reflect back to me that it's dangerous or not going to happen, or adults are going to treat me with contempt for wanting something to happen that might not

be real. And then even as an adult watching it again, I was like even more touched because I really then because I saw all of the real nuance that you miss as a kid. Like as a kid, I was just taking it and it's like this is like a really fun, frictionless like journey that just feels good and

I can feel all kinds of great emotions. And then as an adult, I'm like, this is so like this is just so good to watch, you know, like it's it's so you're you know, if we like conflict is negative, this is like just taking in so much like positive energy, even with like the you know, the like the dramatic elements of it, but it just feels i don't know, nourishing in this very strange way that I didn't find

watching it, like you know as a kid. Right, it does, Yeah, it does sort of make you think like, oh wow, there is Like when you see a truly beautiful piece of kids media, you're like, damn, I spent all that time watching movies about terribly c g I talking dogs with be like, hey what I can I mean? Also an incredible genre, but it doesn't hold a candle. Who's talking now to the beauty of a movie? Like that's true. Um. The last thing I want to say is cat Bus

facts with Caitlin. How many nipples are we talking? Well, there's some math involved, Okay, okay, based on those arms. Right, So if cat Bus has twelve legs, which is three times the number of legs as a regular cat, and if a regular cat has eight nipples, if you multiply that by three, cat bus has twenty four nipples. Everything about that, And that's cat Bus facts with Caitlin. Thank you for indulging me. Um does this movie pass the

Bechtel test? Oh? Hell yeah? Oh yeah, hell yeah. With growny boy with the barely speaking boy, I like that. I like that Miyazaki goes the extra mile and actively removes the voice of at least one male character. Yeah, you're you're gonna have a hard time contact just doing the basics and this is real. Man can't even give an umbrella. Oh you're so sweet. Yeah, yeah, you've got May and Stotzky talked to each other about a bunch of stuff. May and her mom, Stotzky and her mom.

Satsky and May talked to granny individually, the teacher. I believe that there's an example. Satzky talks to her new friend from school. Oh, yes, you love that. They the movie goes out of the way to give her friend. We don't really learn anything about the friend aside from her name. Yeah, but you're just like man Stotski, she can do it all. Yeah. Even then they like it wasn't the dad even like what you made a fucking friend. She's like, yeah, I gotta go. I'm out. Yeah, I'm Stotzky.

I'm awesome. Yeah, you be jopping my hairstyle for years to come. But yeah, lots lots of combinations of characters that passed the Beckel test, and the movie is like almost constantly passing, especially because I would argue that even though Toto and friends are I think referred to with like he him pronounced, they gendered Totoro as male, and Toto's voice by a male voice actor, a male Scooby and male Scooby do. I would argue that Toto's are genderless.

I think so they're sentient pillows exactly with great breath. Yeah, you don't need to gender a mutual aid pillow. That's a genderless entity. Total is the concept of mutual aid as a sentient pillow, like that's planting community gardens. I mean, this is first fucking legend. And then the point being when Satsky and May talk about Totoro, they're talking about

a genderless icon. So I think I think it absolutely passes the bastile test to talk about absolutely And then that brings us to our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on how the movie fares when examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I think this is five nipples. I cannot think of a reason why it deserves any less. I think it's a five nipple movie. I love that.

And this is a common thread of all the Musaki movies we've heard so far, that it centers girls in a way that like just presents them as being very authentic and just exploring their lives and choices and and behaviors and actions in a way that tracks so much better than basically every other story I've ever seen that focuses on girls, which, as we've discussed, is like kind of surprising considering these movies are made by a man.

But when you know someone like Miyazaki just has a vested interest in it actually like authentically representing girlhood on screen, like it can happen. It works, he sits, he pulls it off. I love the characters. I love the relationship between the sisters. It's five nipples. I want to give one to Satsky, one to May, one to Granny, one to the cluster of totoros, and one two their mom. I love it. I'm gonna go five as well. I

totally agree. I think this movie is so like beautifully done, and I love how it brings in spirituality in a way that is like very again just like matter of fact, The way that um Miyazaki is able to bring in like fantastic and grounded elements is just like a fact of the world is like so it seems so effortless, but like having seen other movies, like it's really hard to do. It's so beautiful. Um the only thing that I would say, so, I'm completely on board with everything

you're saying, Kaitlin. The only thing that really pings for me is more just like behind the scenes stuff of like this is a beautifully told story about childhood and at about and I guess about girlhood specifically. Um, so you would hope to see more women in prominent roles behind the scenes in a movie like this, true, which uh, you know, we always try to be mindful of as well. Unfortunately, in this case, it does appear that all the at

least the top titles. Unless I'm missing something listeners, let me know. I would love to be wrong, but it seems like it is mostly men, which is a systemic issue. But also you would think Mizak you would have some say in uh, his crew, So there is that, But in terms of like story wise and presentation, I just think it's like fucking incredible across the board. So five nipples, and I've giving them all to cap bus Hell. Yeah yeah, Miles,

what about you? I mean, I don't know if I can give five just because we arrived at such a great number, which is twenty four nipples, and I think this deserves twenty four nipples for all of the reasons that were stated, plus the criticisms, which are very valid overall, I think the other thing too, which is really I really don't didn't even really think about, is I never thought of this as being about like a gendered story, that this is like it's about two girls, you know,

like and I was never as a partially like in real time being he brained boy in the eighties and nineties could still look at this and be like, yeah, like it had nothing to do like because it wasn't present, you know why, Because I think it wasn't hitting any of these like weird notes in my brain which is spen to go this is supposed to happen, this trope is present. That means this, The story means this, And it allowed me to really engage with something that was

just about being curious and innocent and a child. That plus just all the nostalgia for me, you know, I just uh, yeah, it's fantastic. Um, So I'm gonna split the twelve nipples twelve to the concept of mutual aid in the form of to total and then twelve to nickel bus Well. Yes, so you're giving the movie twenty

four nipples. Okay, I see what's happening. Yes, yes, I'm just saying if we can take the five and multiply them by five, what I'm trying to divvy it up so it would at the conversion rate of nipples, this would be a five nipple film. I'm just using a different I'm using a crypto or nipto currency, not nipto. Nipto currency is tanking right now. You've got to be careful. Oh not no, not mine, Jamie. I told you should have got in, should have got in early when I

told you I gave my totoro slurp juice. And now there's there's eight hundred of them. Oh yeah, no, no, I don't funk with the slurp juice straight up Nipto all nippta. Well, here's what happens. If you give the smallest toto a slurp juice, you get two more, including the scooby. So okay, well, okay, I'll think about we'll offline about it. Well, look, it's an investment, think about it.

Nipto coin. Yeah, I mean, look, dude, I mean, if you want to come to the moon with me, let me know, because I got I got room on the spaceship I got room, no pressure, but you're probably gonna on. I'm not going to be greedy about it any unlimited slurp juices. Miles, Thanks for coming back, Thank you for having me. It's always again a pleasure and honor to talk to the Bothy All about film because I don't I don't know as much, but you ask me on the ones I can speak relatively well about, so I

appreciate that. Miles, you absolutely crushed. I mean you've covered three very different genres here. You've done an action movie, a holiday movie, and a children's movie. Yeah. All Up by Alley was like the Rock. I'm like, yep, pretty much. You're like his wife of course? Of course, was that the movie that inspired you to get married yourself? Absolutely? When I saw how much purpose it gave him to stand over a gravestone that said his wife, I was like,

that's want that that's missing in my life. I want what they have. Yeah, that's why I'm not committing active domestic chemical terrorism. Oh God, that movie good. Anyways, Where can we find you on online? Miles? And where can we listen to? You? Find me? At Miles of Gray, At Miles of Gray, wherever there's at symbols also Daily Zeitgeist every Day and if you like trash reality shows, check out Force with Sophie, Alexandra and I Hell Yes Yeah. And then you can check out us on Twitter and

Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can check out our Matreon at patreon dot com slash becktel Cast, where you get too bonus episodes every single month, plus access to the whole back catalog of over one bonuses. It's a it's a darn delight, if I do say so myself. You can also check out our merch at dot com slash d Bechtel Cast, and you can follow us online wherever wherever you find us. I don't think there's anyone impersonating us. We're kinda we're not We're not on that level. So

don't worry about it. Yeah, don't don't sweat it with I gotta get on this cap us because I gotta go save my sister