Muriel's Wedding

On the Bechdecast, The questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zeph and Beast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

Oh hello, Jamie, Hello, Hello, what's up? How are you?

Oh?

I'm doing pretty good.

How are you? I'm doing all right. Yes, it's just nice to sit down and watch an Australian film. So true, Australian films are so slipped on, wouldn't you agree? I agree, absolutely slipt on that Tony collects a stuff.

She really is and I always forget she's Australian because most of the roles I've seen her do she's doing an American accent. Yes, I feel like she is.

She then, and we've talked about this on the show before, but I never I never tire of this line of discussion. But like she and Margot Robie, I feel like our our our strongest stealth Australians that I'm aware of, unless there's more and we we just don't know.

Solely true, because there's Nicole Kidman's always kind of slipping into her.

I would not, I would not she is. I would not say that. I'm like, really, Nicole Kidman's Australian, nothing but respect, but like she's constantly falling out of it. Yeah, in a way that I simply love. I find it very charming. Oh oh my gosh, no, wait, you're not a Succession head Sarah Snook. Sarah Snook, who plays the daughter Shive on Succession, is Australian and in all four seasons I have I'm sure Australian folks would catch smaller slips, but I like caught one slip and it was so

I would say most of her life.

Can't speak to before then, but this was like her big, her big Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Shamie Loftis.

My name is Caitlyn Dante. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersexual feminous ones, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. We don't really have time for that. We got to talk about Muriel's wedding.

This is our fake wedding. This is our fake wedding. This is yeah. We we sort of planned this episode last minute just because we were excited about it. It's a movie that we are I'm sure that we're making a few prospective guests for this because I think so many guests over like I would talk about Muriel's wedding like, people are frothing for this episode. Oh yeah, and we're

It was a lie?

It is I believe me too, And it's brave of us to say that. But this was directed by PJ. Hogan, who was like, who did so? He also did my best friend's wedding, which we covered not too long ago on this show, and by that, I mean I was living in my current apartment, so it couldn't have been too long ago.

Very true. He also directed that Peter Pan movie that you have discussed with enjoying jerem me.

I was like, wow, he's coming up all over the place. I also have been thinking a lot about Jason Isaacs, who I believe plays Captain Hook in that Peter Pan. Yeah, because Jason Isaacs is in the new season of White Lotus, so he's kind of having and I was like, who is that? And then it's like, oh right, Wig Luciu's Malfoy's dad. I was like, what's his name? What's his name? Wig? In my head, Jason Isaac's name.

Is Wig long blond Wig.

Yeah, I didn't know him before he was Wig.

P J.

Hogan also directed Confessions of a Schoppaholic, which I have also not seen.

I haven't either. I know that people have and listeners correct me from wrong. People have a lot of love for that movie, but it seems more nostalgic than it being good, might imagine. I can't say I read the Confessions of the Chapoholic books when I was a kid, because they had like a lot of sex in them, and I think my mom let me take them out of the library because she thought they were princess Diary's books because the covers look similar, you know, both very

Congratulations, thank you.

Thank you. And I couldn't have done it without my friend Chappaholic.

I learned about fucking via Judy.

Bloom books, like the adult ones. Yeah, because she wrote Forever, Yes, Forever was that's a very horny book, very horny.

And then there's one called like Summer Sisters or something. Remember that heavily references Abba. Relevant to today's discussion.

I do have a quite I mean, how on earth did because this was an independent film, how did they afford Abba? I don't It was made for nine million dollars, Like that's how much it costs to play three seconds of dancing Queen. Now I wonder.

I mean, I don't know, Mammy are ruined it for everyone? I was gonna write Abba songs are that's too high.

Now, that's it's very possible because I think this came out before the musical, so maybe that was just what let me. Yeah, because the musical came out in nineteen ninety nine, so maybe Abba Wright's We're pretty cheap. And I mean it's clear that no one in Australia in nineteen ninety four had a good thing to say about them.

Well especially Mary friends.

Yeah, yeah, I mean you can tell where PJ. Hogan stands because everyone who hates Abba is a bitch. What an interesting movie. So yes, nineteen ninety four PJ. Hogan, written and directed by I believe, his film debut, produced by two women Brave, one of whom is Pj's his wife, Jocelyn Moorehouse and a young actor who is pretty obscure becomes a big stat from this movie. And an's Tony Kollett.

That's so true, Jimmie, what is your relationship with this movie?

I hadn't seen it and I have no idea why, because it's like I think, maybe it's just like a little Yeah, I guess it's like for the same reason that I mean, I'm not comparing them, but they're like for one thing, I thought this movie was a romantic comedy, like I did not, And there I would say, it is like, while it is coded as it seems like it was marketed as a romantic comedy. I mean, I look at the cover of this movie and I'm like.

Oh, that's a rom com probably exactly.

Like it's a I was. I was honestly like, is this just like a boring highjinks thing? Like what is this? This movie, I would say is pretty thoroughly devoid of romantic love, but not devoid of love, but devoid of romantic love, yes, but it is funny at many points.

I had seen the first scene at the wedding at the very beginning. Interesting, and I don't know why I didn't keep watching. I think I like had to go to a comedy show or something. But I watched it, I think when I was still living in Boston with my best friend, who I'm pretty sure is a big fan of this movie, and he's like, I'm gonna put this on, and then I watched the first scene and then I like had to go. It's not that I wasn't interested in continuing watching.

It's also such a weird for it's such a weird movie from the moment it begins, like I like, what would you even leave? Being like where is this going to go? Because it's like Urials getting arrested? Right.

So I knew enough based on that first scene to know that it was a movie about a woman who we're supposed to kind of think is this you know, like sad sack person, but we also like love her and we're endeared to Muriel. But it's like it doesn't start the way like that first scene. I was like, oh this this probably isn't a standard rom calm based on just like how things are being set up or

I really liked. One of the many things I liked about this movie is that even though there are like I don't know, I mean, and maybe the recap will prove me wrong because it is just such a vibes movie, but even when characters sort of drop in and out, they usually I thought that the script in the movie was like much better than most movies about making sure characters came back, making sure that people had a moment.

She's got problems, but that's what makes the movie so like, it's so good, authentic and endearing. H Yeah, it's like if a movie focused on like the Judy Greer best friend character of so many rom coms.

Yeah, and then yeah, and if she had like huge issues with her family. We'll get to the fare. But yeah, I thought it was really good. I also kept writing down real teeth. I just love people.

No, no, uh, what's the fucking guy's name, Jerry Bruckheimer here?

No, no, Lauren Michael's teeth, none of it, none of it real real teeth. Also, Okay, the best example I can think of of a bit character that I had totally forgotten about and then she came back was that lady Diane who hates shoplifting.

Oh yeah, she's just.

The same, The same woman gets both Muriel and her mother arrested for a shoplifting. Yeah.

She's like, I guess it's sort of like those secret shoppers, Yeah, who just like goes to stores and like spies and narcs on other customers for shoplifting.

Yeah. I mean it's like, I get it that you've got to work, but the least you can do is be really bad at that job on purpose. Come on, absolutely?

Yeah. Yeah, Well, in any case, shall we take a quick break and then get into the ages long recap that I've written.

Let's do it.

Okay, we'll be right back, and we're back. We'll place a content warning here for suicide as well as family abuse dynamics. Here's the recap of Muriel's wedding. I also like, I'm like, am I saying this name right? Muriel Muriel? And then later she calls herself Mariel.

Like, it's Muriel Muriel. I think that that at least that's the American pronunciation of it, okay, because that was did you ever I know, I know the answer to this. Did you ever watch Courage the Cowardly Dog?

Were not at all?

Well, there's a character named Muriel on that show. It's spelled the same way, and she says it like that. Okay, it's kind of an old time It's just like an old fashioned name. Yeah.

Well, my grandmother was named Miriam, so oh, okay, similar vibes.

I knew. I knew a few mary El's. I definitely didn't know any Muriels. Her husband's name was Eustace. This cartoon I'm talking. Okay, so they they've just wear an elderly cartoon characters.

Got it, got it all right?

I guess we should start.

So we are in a place called Porpoise Spit Australia. Ever heard of it? No, because it's a made up.

Place, such a funny big name.

We meet Muriel has Slop, played by Tony Kullette, at her friend's wedding, not her best friend's wedding, just her regular friend's wedding. She has caught the bouquet Mariel has and she's delighted because she loves weddings. She desperately wants to get married. The whole marriage and wedding thing is like very up her alley. Yeah, but all of her very mean friends such as Tanya, Cheryl, Nicole, there's another one whose name I didn't catch. They're like, eh, Muriel

And then it's like, well, yes and no, I love I love her. I just like she's impossible not to root for, even when she's being a real piece of shit. I just Tony Kalett is so good and the writing is, I thought, really good.

Yeah.

I just this movie weirdly made me like my best friend's wedding more just because I knew it was the same. It's not that I really want to watch it again, but I know that that our whole discussion around that movie was sort of like they were trying to go for something but it didn't quite happen, right, And I feel like they're trying to go something for something different, but they're trying to go for something here that is also weirdly wedding related, right, But the difference is it

It seems like PJ. Hogan has a vested interest in subverting traditional wedding oriented narratives, and what he ends up doing with My best Friend's wedding I appreciate to some extent, but.

It also just feels like it's so Hollywood, and it seems like this movie is presumably completely within his control because it's fairly low budget. It's I don't know. Yeah, I wasn't able to fight a lot of information of like was he But I'm assuming because it's like a husband wife, you know, producing to it, like creatively, there was a lot more freedom to make some like weird choices because this movie makes so many weird choices.

It really does. Yeah, And then there's a quick moment where Muriel goes inside and sees the groom whose name is Chuck.

You're like and maybe maybe that's the name. Maybe we're not sure.

And he's having sex with not the bride but one of the bride's friends, Nicole, and like Muriel sees them like secretly having sex in the laundry room. Then there's this whole thing where that woman, I guess her name is what is it Diane. She's like the secret shopper like store detective lady who accuses Maryel of stealing the dress that she's wearing.

I am just like my enemy, my enemy Diane.

The cops get involved, but Muriel's dad, Bill Heslop played by Bill Hunter, who was also in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, and he's in another movie that we watched recently together. We haven't covered it on the podcast yet, but strictly ballroom.

I mean he is Australia.

Yeah, he is like a city council member or something. He works in government.

It seems like he's a city council member who aspires to a bigger political career. Yes. Yeah, he's a climber and he's a piece of shit.

He's the worst person. He kind of like butters up the cops to get Muriel out of trouble after stealing this dress. Then we cut to Muriel having dinner with her family. Her dad and her mom, Betty played by Genie Drynen, are there, along with Muriel's like three or four siblings. Her dad is carrying on about his various business dealings. He seems to be like a real estate developer or he like grants permits to people who build these like resorts and stuff like that.

I was not exactly sure, yeah, because I was like, whatever he was doing, it's shady as fuck. Yeah, he was doing illegally. But like he I mean, and this is like a through line to the movie as it turns out, but like he's such a liar that I was not even sure what he was supposed to.

Have been doing, right, Yeah, I don't really, I don't understand.

He's like, I don't take bribes, I mean agreements, And I was like, for what, like it just was I don't know, I don't have that in me. I'm just like, it's too confusing. You're calling things other can't do it.

We just know he's sleazy.

Yeah, and he's hearing on oh that day draft, like whenever he screams across any room day draft. Yeah. The woman he's gonna leave her for. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, So there's that. There's he talks about how he like ran for state government once but lost. That'll kind of come back later. We also learn that Muriel dropped out of high school. She's currently unemployed and has been for a couple of years. Her dad calls Muriel and her siblings useless and dead weight. And then this is when a friend of Bill's comes over to the table. This is a beauty consultant named Deirdre who.

Is basically running an MLM. It sounds like like a ninety era mL.

It's not Avon, it's not Mary Kay, but it's something like it.

It's the Australian fictional variant of this right, but.

Deirdre offers Muriel a job. The next night, Muriel goes out to drinks with her friends, her mean girl friends, including the bride from the wedding, Tanya, who's crying because her husband is already having an affair, but not.

With the person that Muriel knows with. It's a different affair, which just unfortunately, like pretty funny when you see, like when you see I think it's Nicole, react to like, wait, he's cheating on me to yet another person.

Yeah, And her friends tell Tanya to forget about her husband and go on holiday with them to Hibiscus Island.

This is the lot to Sex and the City the movie.

Oh my gosh, you're right. Yeah, I didn't even think about that.

Yeah, it's like if they had a friend that they verbally abused almost to death. Fortunately, among their crimes, that's not one of them. There's not a random fift but it really did feel like the cast of Sex and the City plus Tony Collette, and everyone's screaming at Tony Collett to shut up.

Right, because what has happened is that Maryel's friends had planned a vacation without inviting Mauriel, and then they tell her that they don't want Muriel hanging around with them anymore because she doesn't fit in with the image that they've cultivated. She doesn't wear the right clothes or hairstyles. They fat shame her, and they also just simply don't like who she is as a person. Mauriel naturally starts crying and she says.

I'm not nothing. It's so we're like, oh, Mariel, yeah, like this this movie is very depressing. Do yeah. However, I think it's so like bravely. I think Tony Kallett is very talented, but it is wild how they managed to balance the tone in the scene that like, your heart is breaking for her, and the scene is still a little bit funny because they're in this like loud tiki bar, and the friends are so tone deaf that

Yeah, but a few really the horrible things will happen first, I.

Mean, isn't if that's not life best case scenario.

Okay, So her friends have dumped her. The next day, Muriel's mom, Betty, gives Muriel a blank check so that she can buy makeup kids from Deirdre to resell because it is this like MLM scheme. Muriel tells her mom that she's gonna get married and be successful so that her parents can be proud of her.

And there's a line that and there's also I again just like a character that I'm used to seeing in passing in rom comms, the like, for lack of a better description, depressed mother, and we end up getting I mean, it doesn't get much happier, but there is a lot of depth that we get with her mother that I wasn't expecting, and I was like pretty pleasantly surprised by

Yes, because we cut to Hibiscus Island, which is a very small island off the north west coast of Australia. This is where Muriel's friends are or former friends I should say, are on vacation. They look over and see Muriel, who has clearly used that blank check that her mom gave her to treat herself to a holiday, and the other women are furious that Mauriel is there. That night, she runs into someone she went to high school with,

They I and you will be shocked how long Tim Simms is canonically real in this friendship.

It seems like a month and months. She's like, what do you mean you would get a married Tim Simms? It's somehow even funnier in the accent, like.

It's just I love it. It's it's her. I don't know why I'm feeling so referencing today, but her, what is it? Astronaut Mike Dexter, like just a made up boyfriend from thirty Rock. Yes, that's Muriel's Tim Simms.

I'm also reminded of I forget which Brady Bunch movie, but it's like the ones that Christine Taylor is in them. They were like big staples of my youth. And Marcia at one point makes up a boyfriend named George Glass. So I love a lot like that.

I mean, because it's also and I appreciate that it's made clearer in Muriel's wedding. Then I think it's been in most because I mean, god knows how many movies we've covered that have been like a relationship predicated on a lie. But I am giving this movie a pass because it's a friendship. No, But also it is, like is made so clear to us why Muriel's doing what

It is very different from the standard like rom com. Oh it's a it's a bet, or it's some kind of goofy lie to trick someone into thinking I'm not

It's the classic like I have a boyfriend who lives in Canada, like yeah, and some people carry that energy far into their adulthood and Muriel is I mean she's not, I mean not far into her adulthood. Tony Kollette I think is like twenty two in this movie. Yeah, but you know she and also as as it becomes more obvious and like, I don't know if it hit for you right away and I'm just have a brain full

Yeah. Yeah, So this is the lie that maryel tells Ronda about her fiance Tim Sims. Sims and the two of them get to talking about Tanya and Tanya's friends and how they were so cruel to Ronda in high school, and Mariel is like, well, surprise, they're right over there. So Ronda approaches them and Tanya is like, oh, why don't you have a drink with us? And Ronda is basically like no, thanks, you killy had beach.

By the way, love, Like this speed with which Ronda wins you over is like unreal, It's so great.

Yeah, and she's like, by the way, your friend Nicole is fucking your husband. And also I'm gonna go hang out with my new friend Maryel By like mic drop.

Cut to and also, if you haven't seen the movie, important that you know that Muriel's obsessed with Abba. Cut to them doing an amazing karaoke scene in Waterloo, and then you're like, oh, this movie is weird, weird like this, it's it's great. Also, my best friend's wedding features an extended karaoke scene. Another PJ.

Hogan, Wait, is it the one where they're at the like rehearsal dinner or some like wedding.

Over Julia am I thinking they're wrong movie Ulis can't sing and then they follow.

No, Cameron Diaz can't sing. Oh yes, yes, at karaoke. But then there's another scene where like a whole group of people are singing at some dinner. Yeah, we're talking about twoffer different scenes. But now I remember the karaoke scene.

P J.

Hogan loves a weird karaoke slash bar fight scene.

Yeah, because what happens is like Rhnda and Muriel are like bringing down the house with their Waterloo performance.

The outfits. It's just awesome. Yeah.

Meanwhile, Tanya and her friends are there and they're having a horrible time, and then Tanya and Nicole start beating each other up. Cut to Maryel's family. They're reading a postcard from Muriel saying that she's funding this expensive vacation with all the cosmetics she's selling. Diadra hears about this and knows that Muriel's lying. Also, there's speculation that Muriel's dad and Deirdre are having an affair. I can't remember if I've made that clear yet or not.

Yes, yeah, And it becomes increasingly obvious as time goes on, for sure, because she just always happens to be in the same restaurant. I love that that's there. It seems like truly their system is I will go to the nearest Chinese restaurant, and then you also go there, because we see that happen in multiple cities, Like that's clearly just their thing that they.

Do something and he's always like, oh, what a cool and she's like hi, yeah yeah. So back to Muriel. She's still on vacation, hanging out with Ronda, who reassures Marriel that she is somebody. She's successful in Timstons wants to marry her. Shortly after this, Muriel returns home very briefly because it seems like her family is missing. Twelve thousand dollars and they rightfully suspect Muriel of stealing it. So she turns right back around and heads to Sydney,

It's a very sad scene, but it's also very funny that Muriel walks in the house with these like pretty gnarly tan lines too. She has like the outline of sunglasses on her face, which I thought was a funny touch. And then her poor mother is like always wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt, and it's like, you didn't do it right. You wouldn't do that. You're awesome, and Muriel's like, yeah, gotta go and running back. I mean, I mean, yeah, I was laughing.

It's funny.

You sun block. Oh my god. People in the nineties were so stressful. Please use sunblock for the love of god.

Yeah, okay. So Muriel moves to Sydney. She's still lying to Ronda about having been engaged, although now she's saying that her ex fiance, Tim Sims is a cop, and so she's changing her name to Mariel with an A to hide from him.

And I like that. I mean, it's definitely like naive of Ronda, But I also just like appreciate how game she is for like whatever Muriel's up to where she says and she means it. She's like, oh, you know when she meets him, she's like, oh, are you are you trying to like have one last fling before you get married to Tim Simms. I won't tell anybody. Yeah, And then and then she's like, oh, are you changing your name? Because Tim Sims is a homicidal X cop.

She's loyal.

She's loyal even when it's like, come on, read back what you just said. But they're young.

They're young, yeah, early twenties. Yeah, yeah, Okay. So Maryel now works at a video rental store and one night she goes out to a dance club with a customer named Bryce, who had like come into the video store and asked her out on a date. She brings him back home, where Ronda is having allowed threesome in the other room. Maryel and Bryce start making out. She's shrieking with laughter, and then there's all this okay high jinks.

Well, okay, we have to slow this scene down because this scene I was like, I had to watch it like three times. It so much happens. Some of it is very high, some of it is very serious. The giggly stuff I was really confused about because I was sort of wondering because what happens right before they start making out and like we'll get into this where you know, it is very nineties and ascribing to like no consent discussions, nothing like that. Right like they're vibing, but he comes

All it's a spin of like two minutes. It's so much jam packed into one small moment.

While Yeah, I was.

Thinking about, like, the context we learned earlier in the beginning of the movie is that Maryel's never had a boyfriend. That doesn't mean she's never had any sexual experiences, but it also might mean that she hasn't.

We don't know.

We don't know for sure.

We're not sure. It does seem like Muriel has a hyperfixation on monogamy that would suggest that maybe she hasn't had it, but we again, we just don't know.

Canonically hard to say yeah. But then yeah, there's this like high jinxy kind of slapstick moment where Bryce, intending to like unzip her pants, he accidentally unzips the bean bag chair and all of the beans spill out. Then the two dudes who Ronda is fucking come out naked with their dicks out, and every time, like and why Maryel sees them, she shrieks some more. But like in a again, we're just like how.

It just seems like she it's like she she's very hard to read this scene. I was like, how are you feeling? I don't know. Yeah, And also I'm like it happened so suddenly that I'm like, why did they attack?

I'm guessing they heard her shrieking shrieking, and then they're like, what are you doing to her? So the two other guys like pin Bryce down, thinking that maybe he was assaulting Muriel, and then Ronda comes out and then suddenly Ronda's like, I can't feel my legs.

Cut to so the er, that scene is exactly as chaotic as you just described, Like it is an experience watching that scene.

Yeah, it's a lot. And then in the er in the hospital, it turns out that Ronda has a cancerous tumor that is pressing on her spine. That's why she couldn't feel her legs and she needs to have surgery immediately to have the tumor removed.

Not to over cancer this discussion so much, but I did it did make me. I was curious, like how intentionally this was done. And apologies if you're an oncologist or a lover of oncologists, But the scene where she finds out that she has cancer and the oncologist sort of just drops that word into the conversation and she's like, wait,

You have to use your words. I mean, I've talked at length on various podcasts and episodes of this show about my kind of distrust of the American healthcare system. But yeah, I found that a lot of doctors are not very good at communication, so no, and then there they should work on that.

Yeah, anyways, there it is a very uh again, just like one of the many kind of abrupt like pace changes in the movie where it goes from like, oh, like Muriel's about to have a fun hookup with her crush to her best friend has cancer. And I just again was like so impressed that even though the like whatever gradient of things that happen is so all over the place, it never stops being a comedy. Right, but I'm sort of confused as to how that was even possible.

Mm hmm. Yeah, this will become clear in a few moments before that, Muriel calls home and finds out that her dad has left her mom and is currently in Sydney as well, facing an inquiry for accepting bra vibes after Muriel stole their money. But you also get the impression that he's been accepting bribes his entire career, so it's like not a new.

Thing, and that right, and that it's just like this, it happens to be the thing that people caught up on. And also, I mean, it becomes clearer as the movie goes on that her dad is always doing things that seem altruistic but are without fail to improve his own position, which you know, because at first I was kind of surprised when he goes on TV and he's like, Muriel, we love you, we're you know, we don't care about

For sure. So then, and this is maybe to help Muriel cope with this news of her friend being diagnosed with CAM. But she goes into a wedding dress shop to try on a gown. She tells the shopkeepers that she's marrying her fiance Bill in September.

Which is also like, ugh, that's her dad's name, Muriel, don't say.

That, yeah, stick with Tim Sims. She also said her story straight lady. She also says that her mom can't come because she's in the hospital with a tumor on her spine aka what's going on with Rohnda. And by now we realize that Muriel is a serial liar. I mean, yeah, that was pretty clear from the jump, but it's like now happened several times.

But I feel like that's the first example where it's clear that like lying is her coping mechanism because it's like she can't talk about she finds it really difficult to talk about what is actually bothering her, so she makes up weird lies that reference what is bothering right.

Yeah, she's pulling from source material aka other people in her life and then making up stories to make herself seem sympathetic. And it works. Yeah, because the shopkeeper out of section, they take photos of her in the dress, which Mariel puts in a wedding photo album, which we'll come back in a moment. Meanwhile, Ronda is in physical therapy. She's learning how to walk again. She's incredibly frustrated because she's unable to do much for herself. Mariel has to

That made me tear up. That was really beautiful.

Yeah. But then and then Ronda makes Muriel promise that they'll never go back to their hometown of Porpoise Spit and she's like.

Yeah, which I will say is for even though Ronda is the best character in the movie, I think, and she's the realist. I wonder if it's like if it's a youth thing or but like, I don't know that she necessarily realized what a big ask that is, and that it was sort of like said and not to say that Muriel wouldn't have done it or I mean, because it's like caretaking and like assisting is like one

Yeah, they've only known each other for a few months.

Yeah, maybe, like and so it's like that is a really steep escalation, you know, but that's I mean, god, I again, it's just like obviously very specific circumstances, but like, oh, two friends in their early twenties and a weirdly codependent friendship. Many such cases, many such cases, indeed.

Yes, So one day Ronda sees this wedding photo album that Maryel has been compiling, and apparently she's been filling it with dozens of photos of her in different wedding dresses at various bridal shops across Sydney. And then Ronda catches her red handed, like in the middle of trying on a dress and assumes that Maryel has gotten back together with Tim's Sims. And this is the moment where

And that is the moment in the movie. Room'm like, oh, this movie is so good. It's like directly confronting how we're conditioned to see marriage to some extent where a lot of people are conditioned to see marriage is as like if you can do this, everything will be okay.

So we need that dress back now?

Right, It's still like always there manages to be a comedic button on these like devastating scenes.

It's wilds yeah for sure. Okay, So sometime later, Muriel meets up with her dad in Sydney. He berates her for stealing his money. Deirdre just happens to come into the restaurant, Oh my God, and she and Bill confirm that they're in love and that Bill has effectively left Muriel's mom Betty for Deirdre. Bill also tells Muriel that she has to move back in with her mom and she has like a few weeks to do it to

And this is like the maybe third or fourth time that the.

Movie just likes a big name, totally different movie where it's like that this is the beginning of a this is the first act of a different movie.

If we're like well into the second act of this movie.

Now.

I just thought it was like it was pretty pretty awesome because that premise feels weirdly like old school rom comie of like I need to do this and so I guess I have to get married. Like that's the oldest rom com trope in the book.

So I thought when I was watching this yesterday, yeah, for the first time, aside from that first scene I had already watched years and years and years ago. I thought that the premise of the movie was going to be that after she catches the bouquet at this wedding and all her friends are like, you'll never be the next one to get married, that Maryel will like go on a journey like just be hell bent on getting married to prove those friends wrong. And that is kind

But like, well, it's like because it's like the real inciting incident of this movie is meeting Ronda, Like that's what really changes things. It feels like I don't know, I feel like it's clear by the end that it's like, you know, platonic or not, Like Ronda is the great love of Muriel's life. And vice versa, even though you know they both make their mistakes, Muriel more than Ronda. But yeah, yeah, that scene, it's so I don't even

One right, because here's what happens. So she finds a personal ad that seems promising, so she goes to respond to it. Meanwhile, Ronda reveals that her cancer has come back and that she'll never walk again, and Ronda's mom is insisting that she does move back home to Porpoise Spit. Muriel's too wrapped up in this other thing to really bother with what Ronda's dealing with. That's because Muriel.

My read of that was like it almost felt like Muriel was like mirroring her mom a little bit in that sequence where the situation going on around her was too overwhelming and so she kind of like detaches from it and does something else because originally, I guess I misinterpreted it the first time I watched this sequence where I thought that like Muriel had all of it, like she wants to, say, in Sydney because she doesn't want to be in this toxic family dynamic, but she also

Yeah, and Muriel is at this juncture in her life not the person to be able to do it.

No, she like can't manage her own shit.

No, not at all. But she does manage to meet this man who is looking for his wife. His name is David van Arkle and he's a swimmer who's trying to compete in the Olympics for Australia because he's from South Africa and there's a long history of South Africa

Which is just like a totally different movie. It's like it's just so wild how what it intends, Like tonal Shift that is again.

And so she meets this guy David, and Muriel's swooning over him because he's hot, handsome, and he's got a good physique and stuff.

But to the point where it's like he doesn't she doesn't, or maybe she's so accustomed to being negged in front of her very eyes, because that's how her father, acts.

And her friend, her former friends and her friends.

Just like she's just so used to being negged to her face that David is like yucky, I don't like her to his like weird coach, and Muriel's like.

Whatever, I'm like no, right. She seems thrilled at the idea of marrying him. He seems repulsed by her, but she breezes past that and.

He'll give her, you know, ten thousand dollars that will allow her to extract herself from this financial obligation to her family.

So yeah, so whin when so a wedding gets arranged between Muriel and David and there's a lot of media attention around it since David is this like star athlete, so she like gets in the tabloids and stuff like that. Cut to the wedding, Ronda is reluctantly there with her mother, Tanya, Cheryl and those women are there is Muriel's bridesmaids because they kind of came crawling back.

That made my blood boil. I was so mad at Muriel in that moment for because you're like, oh, she grow up, she needs to grow up like she does. Yeah, she does. Honestly, I was like nice of Ronda to even show up.

She's there quite reluctantly.

It also feels like Ronda's doing something that like I've never done this at a wedding, but I've definitely done it at various events, just like showing up to be like here I am and how bad does it feel to see me right now? Yeah, it feels like Ronda's pulling one of those and I respect that totally.

So they're there. Bryce is there for some reason.

Again, just like another character that we really only encounter once or twice, who is given. I thought like sort of this deeper lore by showing up later where it seems like he first of all, he's dressed like he's going to a funeral, which felt intentional. He's wearing all black, and I think it's implied that like he's upset things didn't work out between him and Muriel, and like he seems really sad that she's getting married to someone else. Yeah,

He doesn't. We don't see him on screen. I don't think after this either, sometimes I was like, maybe I don't really get Australian humor. Is this supposed to be a joke?

I think so. I mean I feel like the whole the whole wedding is like a combination of being a joke, but it's also like it's I found it genuinely unsettling to watch, Like though it is kind of like a horror movie in the way it plays out.

It's yeah, it does kind of remind you of Carrie in like the prompt scene where she's like so excited to have one prom queen. Meanwhile, maryel is like grinning ear to ear. This is like her what she has been conditioned to think is supposed to be like, you know, the happiest day of her life. And she's so ecstatic she's getting married, which is what she's always wanted. And it doesn't matter that it's a sham marriage to a man who is disgusted by her. She's still like.

It's it's devastating. And the way, and again it is like the way Tony Kleett like manages to straddle how tragic that is with how funny she is. We're like the huge spile and the like yeah, la like contrasted with people looking like they're at a funeral, like it's really unsettling and a little bit funny, and it's yeah,

Yeah, it reminded me of eighth grade because that's the journey that the Kayla character goes on throughout the whole movie. I was also so devastated because in this wedding scene, the one other character besides Ronda, who seems like she truly cares for Muriel and her well being. Is Muriel's mom, And she shows up at the wedding and she's late, but she's there like she had to take a cat like all that. Like her father was there to like

Well, and it's also like her her father is there because it makes him look good to be there again. It's like everything with him is selfish.

It's about image, yeah, yeah, elevating his image. Her mom comes, she's alone, she's brought this gift that she's clearly intending to give to Mariel. Mariel completely like breezes past her and ignores her own mother, and.

She starts crying and she starts crying, Oh my god.

And then things just only get sadder from there with her mother. But I was just like, oh, like, Mariel, the people who love you, they are there for you, and you're like blowing them off, and it's so so sad. She needs to grow up.

It's really sad. Yeah, And I'm also like she's like twenty two, like it's but but it. Yeah, the stuff with her mom again, it's I it's so it felt very I'm trying to think of a less corny way

Yeah, it's so many movies of a similar ilk or that would be sort of like maybe lumped in with this movie because wedding is in the title, have such tropy stock characters as far as like I mean, the leads also, but especially the like, you know, the family, you know, the mom and the dad, or the siblings or the best friends. And this movie takes time to show you how all of these characters are. They feel

It's shreky in it. Sure it's stree, but they're But but it's also because I mean, and I know the movie so it's over. But the like, I have complicated feelings towards the way that the Cruel Friends are portrayed, because they are sort of made out to be, you know,

It's interesting. Yeah, so uh, let's see what happens next. The wedding happens afterward, Ronda confronts Muriel for being a phony, because Muriel's like, my girlfriends who dumped me, they came crawling back because I'm famous.

My bullies are literally obsessed with me. I was like, come on.

Right, And Ronda's like, okay, well that is not impressive number one number two, I have to move back to Porpoise spit because you abandoned me. And she says, ooh, this is my favorite line. She says, maryel van Arkle is not half the person that Muriel heslop was.

So true, so true. I just yeah, it's it's great. And then the fact that Ronda is then doomed to also hang out this bummer group of girls. I'm just like, oh my god, I was using why she goes along with that I would sooner be alone. I'm assuming that it's like it seems like when we see them together later, it seems like Ronda's mom invited them over. I think

Right because earlier, earlier in the movie, Ronda says, I'd rather swallow rite of blades than have drinks with the lux of you.

And you're like, and the way the things end with them, well we have let's just get to the end of the movie.

Yeah, okay, So Ronda calls Muriel out back in Porpoise spit Betty, Mariel's mom accidentally takes some shoes from a store without paying for them, and the same woman.

Because her feet, her feet her mm hmm.

And she paid for everything else. It just seems like she forgot to pay for and she has so much on her mind. Her family hates her and they're cruel to her.

And it was also like and now that she's been abandoned by her husband, like she's never been more alone in taking care of the family, because she was like asking for basic help from her adult children and husband when things were quote unquote normal and everyone was saying no. So now it's like her work has been compounded even worse and everyone is still ignoring her. Who wouldn't shoplift under these circumstances.

True, but she gets in trouble because the same woman who got Muriel arrested for stealing the dress. She narks on Betty.

What a callback wild who thought we would see Diane again?

Wasn't expecting her to make a return. But this is when Bill tells Betty that he wants a divorce. He's like leaving her once and for all.

After he does the thing that he does, the fucking everybody and basically sweet talks Betty out of like having to serve any time because he's like, oh, I you know, all cops are my friends, which is like a red flag, right, But he's super nice to protect ostensibly to protect Betty, but it's just to protect his reputation absolutely, because he immediately becomes extremely cruel to her this and it's also, oh, it just made me so I hate him so much.

Like it's tell me about it, nightmare. And then he tells her he's like divorcing her, and then he says the reason he wasn't elected to state government when he ran previously was because his family was such an embarrassment.

I really thought for a second, because at this point, I'm like, this anything could happen in this movie. I was sort of hoping that she was gonna like shoot him, kill him. I sort of thought for a second, I was like, I wouldn't be mad if she simply shot him.

I would wove for her to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But instead she's devastated. She lashes out at her son for not mowing the lawn. I think, or yeah, he's right there, and like this is the first moment we see her kind of breakdown, and then Betty dies A short time later. Maryel is told that it was a heart attack, but we find out that Betty died by suicide.

And that this and this again just like such a fucking twist of the knife because we find this out from a character who Joni, Muriel's sister, who were introduced to in this very like one liner jokey way, because every time we heard from Joni, she's like your terrible Mariel, like that's her like catch phrase, and she's like the younger sister I think, who always is like, haha, you're in trouble. And that's kind of the only thing we've known about her other than she rips SIGs hanging out

I couldn't I forgot she was one of the siblings half the time, because I think we don't see her in some of like the dinner scenes or something, or she's like focus.

Everyone processes death differently whatever, But like, but just seeing Jonie in that moment, be like what am I going to do without her? And realize like, oh, yeah, they were extremely close and like almost every time you see Joni, she's with her mom, and and that before the movie's over.

It's just got I know this.

This movie is about breaking out of the cycle of abuse.

I know. And then you mentioned so. The funeral is the next scene, and we see that Bill piece of shit that he is, is more concerned about how the press perceive him.

It's clear he like called the press to be like, you're gonna want to come to my what my wife's funeral?

Wife's funeral? And he doesn't seem to be grieving at all, or it's just he's so horrible. And this is the moment that Mauriel realizes not only what a prick her dad is, but that she is similar to him in the sense that she cares too much about what other people think of her. She has lied to people and sabotaged meaningful relationships along the way, and she doesn't want to be like that anymore. She breaks down her husband, David Van Arkle.

Who again like this is a a It seems like another movie is about to start, and then it does it and you're like, yay, but I was like, oh, he came what he came to the funeral?

He consults her, this is the first time he's been any manner of like tender toward her, which feels kind of.

Like a payoff of one of the few interactions we've seen with them before, another very depressing movie, very depressing scene in a movie that's full of them. But when they get back to his like fancy apartment after their wedding and you know, all the pretenses are dropped and he's like, all right, there's your room. I'm gonna go swim, and like can kind of feel how meaningful the wedding was to Muriel and asks her like who the hell

Do not clear it this is true, but yeah, he consoles her as she's crying. They kiss, and I think it is implied that they have sex. Yeah, but the next morning she's like, I'm leaving. We have to break up, goodbye, And then her dad is like, Muriel, I need you to stay and help me raise the kids. Even though like how old are these kids? It seems like there's maybe one under eighteen?

Yeah, I thought so too.

They're like the youngest daughter is she's like a teenager, a teenager, but yeah, the rest of them seem pretty close to, if not in fully adulthood.

Yes, we also learn that in the sort of towards the end of Muriel's mother's life that she burned the lawn because she was so frustrated that she wasn't able to get help with it. It just seemed like there was a lot of struggling that Muriel at very least didn't see, and I think to some extent with the kids without putting the blak because it is like pretty squarely on the father, but like a struggle that they weren't comfortable seeing, right.

I think it's probably a combination of her mom was like good at hiding her various problems, and also that Muriel and her siblings were wilfully ignoring any signs that their mother was struggling because they didn't want to be bothered with it, or they were too focused on themselves or whatever else along those lines.

And I think that there is this I want to be very careful with the way that I phrase this, but it's a dynamic that is familiar to me, not in like my specific family dynamic, but whatever I've seen it of kids perceiving specifically mothers, usually as weak and as targets of mockery in a lot of cases, and like, I don't want to be like her kind of thing without you know, considering how she got there, And yeah, like that, it just feels like a very specific dynamic

Totally I agree, and I was I mean the moments that were the most gut right and chinked to me. We're surrounding the Betty character because she's just so abused and neglected by her husband, by her children. She's just seems to be kind of waiting on people hand and foot, and no one is grateful, and no one checks in with her, and no one cares about how she feels and life it seems like except for Jonie right right.

Yeah.

But so there's this moment where her dad, Bill is like, you have to stay and help me raise the kids, and Muriel's like, no, I don't, that's actually your job as a parent. So goodbye, and she leaves. She goes to Ronda's house, who, like we mentioned before, is hanging out with Tanya.

She's basically been kidnapped like her I think her mom is like forcing her to hang out with these assholes.

Yes, And Mariel comes in and she asks Ronda to move back to Sydney with her, and Ronda, who is still upset with Muriel, is like whoelm okay, I forgive you. Let's go, and they get in a cab and the movie ends with the two of them yelling out the car windows saying like goodbye to the streets and the malls and the beaches of Porpoise. Spit and so let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss further, and.

We're back will I've already talked about a lot of elements of the movie in the abstract that was By the way, kudos on the recap. That was not an easy recap.

No, it wasn't. I tried to make it as like concise as possible, but again, just so much happens. There's so many tonal and narrative shifts throughout this movie that it was difficult. But I did my best. You did a wonderful jop, Oh, thank you saving much.

There is one thing I just wanted to add to the tale end. I guess that could get a conversation started or not whatever. But with her dad towards the end of the movie, I think the last scene he appears in where like you said, like he's like Muriel, You're gonna have to raise your adult siblings for me, And she's like, no, I don't think so, pretty sure that you should have been doing that for twenty something

And I think, I mean, it's effective because it's so emblematic of real dynamics. I think, like we're so used to watching Hollywood movies that often like sugarcoat these things or ignore them, or if there is an abusive family dynamic, it's portrayed in this trophy way or like jokey or cartoonish way or something. And this being like an indie Australian movie, we were like, oh, this actually resembles authentic

Sure Likewise, likewise.

Where like my dad is a narcissist, he was not outwardly cruel to my siblings and I, but he was certainly like emotionally negligent. And then like my mom would try to challenge it sometimes, but usually it was easier for her to just kind of like power through and

Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of an aunt and uncle that like, yeah, I spent a lot of time where it's just and how it is portrayed as like, you know, on a long enough timeline, this is just normal for them, Like, oh, yeah, this is just how, And I think it is. The movie doesn't bash you over the head with it, but that Muriel is just any time she's nearer her father until the very end when he realizes that, you know, he has no more power to exert over her. She's not going to go

Like so clear, right, And it also informs probably why she puts up with the abuse from Tanya and all of those women who are so cruel to her, because when you've become accustomed to abuse, then you going back to my family, like my mom was raised by a very abusive mother, and she has said to me many many times, like that's why I married your dad, who was like not good to me. But that's what I knew, Like that I tolerated it because that's really all I understood.

Yeah, it's not misogynists. It's just like you are given all the information that you need to understand, however misguided

And serves more than that.

I really love that moment. Yeah, that like she's able to see I don't know. I mean, God, may everyone be so lucky to realize in their early twenties that they're repeating the mistakes of their parents, and I was like, yeah, that's in some ways it is a fantasy film, but I'm.

Sure some people have managed to do it.

Yeah, but I mean, yeah, her friendship with Ronda is so life changing and so like life affirming and yeah.

Yeah right, because like we see Maryel being a mess for the bulk of the movie, but it's very different from that like rom com version, like Hollywood rom conversion of a woman who's a mess quote unquote, because that always feels very cart tony and trophy, and it's like she's a mess because she's single and she works too much at her magazine job and that's why she's single, and she just needs a boyfriend to cure her messiness. And we don't get any of that with the Murial character.

And I love that.

It's a great.

Movie exactly exactly I mean, and also that I mean all of us fakes. Like the title, the title is basically a joke where you know, she becomes I mean, she becomes disabused of all of these things because is basically a coming of age movie of everything that she's told is going to like make her the right kind of person, which at the beginning of the movie she so badly wants to be, to the point that she's

I mean, this one's a little trickier than our than most of our conversations surrounding disability, because it's often a character who from the moment we see them on screen till the end of the movie, they are disabled the entire span.

Mccaulluff Time, macaulay Culkin.

And Saved right is my go to example. Yeah, right, played by an able bodied actor, which is often the case, which is what warrants the criticism. In this case, it's a little trickier because she is able bodied for i'd say, like the first half of the time we see her on screen, so it makes the casting trickier. I'm inclined to give this a little bit of a pass, or at least some leeway because of the circumstances of her being an able bodied character for part of it. But it's tricky.

It's tricky. I am inclined to agree with you. I would also like, I would love to hear what our disabled listeners feel about this character, because obviously weird like

You're like right, because one of them says something like you were so full of life and it's like I still what am here?

Right?

Just because I'm disabled now doesn't change that.

Yeah, And she's also just she's also telling them that she's beat cancer, which is like amazing, Like but yeah.

Like totally. Yeah, I think for like a movie from the mid nineties, it does surprisingly well in that regard. This is a topic which we can, you know, move on to or address later. But I was kind of reminded the same way that you know, characters are hurling ablest macro or micro aggressions at Rhonda. There are examples of white characters committing racist aggressions in a way that the movie tends to seem to present it as like,

It's mostly anti Asian racism. Yeah, I was noticing a lot of anti a racism and also anti Indigenous racism.

Yeah right, because there's there's a reference to Bill doing a real estate development project on land that Aboriginal people had been living on and those Indigenous people were displaced so that a resort or something could be built, and then Bill is talking about this and like carrying on as though I deserve recognition for the great work I did to build this you know, development, and it's just like completely dismissing the you know, the violence and displacement

Meet Aboriginal people in the other movie that stars that actor that came out that year.

But yes, which we discussed and you can go back, and.

Also has its own problems. Yeah, but yeah, no, I felt like, you know, the reason for me, and again it's not for me to make this call, but part of the reason that I didn't find the movie to be tremendously ablest is because we have a disabled character who we love and who pushes back against the ableism and like loves and accepts herself. It's the circumstance she's frustrated with right, but with the it seems like they're

Yeah, I agree.

It's like yeah, it's like, you know, you can say, well, we hate those characters and this is just another reason to hate them, but it's like, well, we already hated them. Again. It's like, if you want to go there, if that's the route you want to go, don't only cast white people because it's like it's the racism in the room with us kind of vibe.

Yeah for sure, not.

To say that. I mean, you know, I'm not accusing the director of being racist. I'm just like, you need representation of more than white people obviously, but also like those jokes aren't going to land in an all white cast, and it's like silly to expect them.

To, right to the point where you're not even sure what the intent was with those jokes. It's like, is it to call out the white people for being racist? Or are we supposed to be laughing along with the joke? Because the movie doesn't make that super super clear.

In nineteen ninety four, I don't know what the answer is. Anyone's guessed, right, So yeah, no, I totally agree with you, And it's that's unfortunate because I think that, like by writing Rhonda's Care so thoughtfully, that this movie is able to push back on a lot of ablest tropes, So it's unfortunate that it sort of just plays into lazier tropes around racism.

Also wanted to talk about the body shaming and fat shaming that particularly Muriel's character is subjected to different family members and friends of hers or former friends fat shame her. But then you also learn that Tony collect gained weight for the role, and not that I don't want Tony Collette to get roles, especially starmaking roles like this, but productions throughout history have had a bad habit of not casting fat actors or just actors of varying body sizes.

Which also feels I mean what I mean, We unfortunately don't need to go back very far in movie history because this still very much happens. It was a lot of the discourse surrounding the Whale, which one Brendan Fraser a fucking oscar. It's I don't know, I mean, like we've had this conversation on the show before, but I

Right, there are available actors of all sizes, and if the role requires an actor to be a certain size, there's already an actor who's that exact size that could have been cast without requiring that they make any changes to their body.

Absolutely, And it's it's so wild because it's just like, but although I guess you couldn't make a movie in nineteen ninety four in Australia without this guy Bill, so Bill to be there's only like sometimes when you see Australian movies, I'm like, are there ten working actors in this country? Like what is going on? Bill is in all of them? That's so wild?

Yeah it's it's I mean, and good good.

For him, but yeah no. But I'm glad that you pointed that out because I was also like, I need to do more research, and then the research made me sad many such cases. Let me see. That's like, I think most.

Of what I had I didn't have much else. We covered a lot of stuff during the recap. I think the last thing that I wanted to just include was a quote from a piece from The Guardian by an Australian writer named Karen Pickering, who wrote kind of like a retrospective review in twenty seventeen about this movie entitled Mauriel's Wedding is a feminist masterpiece and more relevant than ever. She doesn't go quite as like intersectional as our discussion has been, but she does point out a lot of

I guess that we didn't really talk about Deirdre, but I don't have that much to say other than it seems like she is coded as like, here's a woman who will step on anyone to achieve some notoriety or comfort,

That was like, uh, I don't but.

I respect what the what the writer's saying, and it's true and it is I'm sure it's like canonically true, but I'm like, I know, I hate that bitch. I hate that bitch.

Yeah, no, she's awful. Just to finish out this quote, the writer goes on to say Bill has exemplifies a particularly Australian strain of toxic masculinity. He's matro corrupt, racist, cruel to his children, and wholly abusive to his poor wife. The most likable he ever gets is when he's grudgingly impressed by Muriel giving him the what for before she leaves. I don't know if that's an Australian expression, but I don't know what the what for?

The what for? I think it's just like standing up to him kind of.

That makes sense finally, And how can we understand her beautiful, tragic mom without factoring in the misogyny and sexism that's kept her in this home full of people who treat her so badly. Yeah, but in Mariel's case, it's also a patriarchal fantasy that keeps her alive, the dream that one day she'll be a success because someone will want to marry her unquote. And yeah, I think that's the last thing I wanted to just touch a little bit more on as far as this idea of And Mauriel's

Or like, but what I really appreciate about this movie is that I think that a lot of even like movies that are ostensibly feminist, and not to say that this doesn't happen, because sure it does. Some people are simply vapid, right, Like it happens across the gender spectrum.

To go on, definitely, And yeah, I don't I don't blame people for having been conditioned to like disproportionately value getting married or just like the idea of getting married or the idea of having a wedding, because there's an entire, you know, bazillion dollar industry built around that, there's and not for nothing, we love going to weddings and as to your wedding, but yeah, I mean so much of patriarchy does condition people, and especially women to strongly value

A man's property, right, But it's like and then and then the whole you know lie the eresults in these like compet structure is that as a woman, you will become a more the most complete version of yourself exactly when you get married to a man. And so I think with every with every feminist movement, that the conception of marriage has been sort of adjusted or like altered by the right to make this very conservative notion Syne. And I mean, I'm fucking getting married next year, Like

No, if that's exactly it, And that's why I really appreciate this movie again, Like, yes, she she has more maturing to do. She you know, needs to learn how to be a more honest person. But it's this caring, supportive friendship with her friend Rhonda. I keep wanting to call her Rodna. I don't even think that's a name. That's a cool name, Rodna, It's Ronda I'm just having a bit of a brain thing today. But Ronda is, Yeah, the thing that she that Muriel needed to see the light. I love it.

Yeah, and just seeing especially with I guess the last thing I'll say about Rhonda and Uriel is that, you know, Ronda, part of what draws them to each other is they really admire each other and you know, and that even after Muriel kind of exposes herself as like I've been lying to you, Ronda's upset about it, she's hurt, but

Because in that moment, Maryel explains why she made Tim Simms up. She's like, exactly, I hate myself and if I was marrying someone, I could be a different person and I would love a different person, which like might and probably wouldn't even be true.

Like no, I mean, well we learned that's not true because she marries some guy and this miserable.

Right, so the way that she actually will love herself has nothing to do with marriage or being with a man or anything like that. She lays all this out and Ronda she hears that. She sees that, and she's like, this is still a person worthy of my friendship and like probably needs my help. They need each other, They need each other for sure.

I love them. I love them. This movie passes the Bechdel test obviously a lot.

Yes, lots of different combinations of characters talking about all kinds of stuff. There are discussions about men. Some of them are made up. Oh does it pass the test if you're talking about Tim Simms, who's not a real.

Person feminist icon timsons. We don't know how Tim Simms identifies. We don't because Tim Sims is made up.

Well, Tim Sims is a cop, so he's.

See him, Tim Simms. I hate to hear it anyways, Okay, Yeah, it passes a lot, And honestly, most of the interactions about men are pretty anti men. It's yeah, I don't think this movie has a very high opinion of men. And that's why I and that's why I trust it.

Wow, Titanic, I don't.

Think if we've ever thrown that line in before, so for your consideration, it doesn't make any sense. That's why I trusted.

Did you catch my Summer Heights High reference from like two hours ago?

Oh my god, the.

Curly haired beach yeah, may yeah, oh yeah, that's probably No, that's a jama and that's not Summer High High briber raids.

I mix it up. Yeah, Jame meant a lot to me.

Well, I mean, same spelling, different pronunciation.

I think, so, just like there's an accent mark, I think. But yeah, yeah, so it passes the vectels test handily. Yeah, so but what about the one perfect metric, the nipple scale?

Oh, you mean our scale where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens.

Why, yes, I do.

Well in that case, I'll give this. I'm like between I want to see like a three and a half, maybe edging toward a four. There's a lot that I think this movie handles well. There's a few things that I'm a little dicey on that I think are very you know, criticism about how the movie handles like the racist microaggressions that different characters hurl head people, and the discussion around ableism and the discussion around body and body size,

Yeah, I'm gonna go three point seven five as well. I agree, particularly with regards to the racism and asking a I mean not Tony Kollett was not famous at this time, but having an actor gain weight instead of simply.

Just casting an actor who's already the size of the character.

Yeah, basically everything else about this movie I was really pleasantly surprised by. Like I was really blown away. It's like, it's a really funny, memorable movie about the cycle of trauma in families. And I still laughed so much and you could never predict what's going to happen next in

Oh okay, wait, I take back my Tim Sims nipple and I'm gonna yeah, sorry, I forgot that he's a cop.

Well I won't.

I'm gonna give he's not real.

But I do, like, I don't want Tim Sims to get any bright ideas.

I do want to distribute some of my nipples to Muriel's mom and her sister Jonie.

I yes, Betty and Jonie, I really And meanwhile, I'm the person that just screamed they're not real. I am so like. I just hope that Muriel calls Joni regularly. I was worried for Joanie at the end. I don't want Joni to get stuck in that pattern of abuse with her dad because it's not like he's going to ever improve. I'm like, Jony, I'm assuming you're an adult. Like, it's hard to tell how old people were in the nineties because they weren't using SPS sunblock and they were

Yeah, I hope she moves on.

I'm still keeping my nipples with timsim. That is fine. I allow it.

And with that, listeners, thank you so much for those of you who have been frothing at the mouth for this Mariel's wedding episode. I know it's it's some of you at least. I hope you enjoyed it.

We really enjoyed putting it together. Yeah, we hope it was worth the way because this was a blast.

Yeah, it was a prospect on our wedding Webuary month last year. Yup, and it didn't quite make the cut. But here it is on the main feed, So yeah, what now?

What now?

But speaking of the main feed versus our Matreon, it's something you should subscribe to. You can go to patreon dot com slash spectal Cast. It's five dollars a month. You get two bonus episodes on amazing themes such as wedding Webruary. What a bargain and plus you get access to the entire back catalog. So check that out. Check out our link tree, our letterbox. You know, give us five nipples on your listening platform, all that good stuff, follow.

Us on Instagram, and most of all, follow your heart. And with that, listeners, let's get in the car and always.

Say it we Bye bye Street, Bye shopping Mall, I Cry, Bye surfer Boys, Bye Los Angeles, Goodbye Porpoise Spit. What a just I'd live there, No, I wouldn't, No horrible play. Goodbye Porpoise Spit, Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and