Lady Bird with Charla Lauriston

Bechtel Cast. We talked about the representation, the portrayal, the treatment of women in movies, one movie at a time. I'm drinking uh seven eleven juice. Yeah, I'm because you think we need sweat. I'm kind of disappointed that you're not drinking Mark's hard lemonade today, but I'm fully today. After they followed us on Twitter and everything, you wouldn't believe, they still have yet to send us any of their product.

But we'll get there. I don't know. I'm still I I got into an online feud with the geeks who drank, and I'm still really battling with that, and I think that they're they're afraid of me, and then I sort of just you know, it can't be feuding. Right now, I understand feud. A show al for Molina was nominated for a Golden Glove and snubbed. There we go, there's the mention, Oh, so we so we look at movies through the lens of how they treat women, using the Bechdel test as a yard stick as a start for

the combo. Bechdel test for us is there has to be a conversation between two female identifying characters in the movie with names talking about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it would be that hard for any movie to pass. And yet, and yet so many simply do not. Yes today today, I mean, I feel like no one will be shocked to know. I say, we blow the reveal that that lady Ladybirds done done. I'm so excited

to talk about it. Yeah, before we get into that, they'll let us introduce guest. She's a hilarious comedian. She runs a show called Velvet Charlotte Lordston being here, dected to be here. Thanks for having me cool, Thanks for bringing up this movie. Of course, this movie so you saw in theaters and I'm guessing screens. Sorry, I mean it only came out a couple of months ago. So

why did you pick this movie? Well, I also I literally like when I saw the previous for it, I reached out to my reps and asked for a script. So I read the script before I ever saw the movie because I was just so excited about Greta Gerwig writing a film and like it's getting any kind of buzz, Like I just get really excited when I see women doing things that are like close to my age. It just feels like I could do it. And it just

seemed like such a cool movie. I hadn't seen stuff like I'm interested in writing a mother daughter kind of movie, and I just wanted to see how she wrote out that relationship. And it was like, really, you know, worthwhile to read the script acy the movie. That's awesome, that's amazing. I don't want to see. Yeah. Hey, speaking of scripts, I do have a master's degree in screenwriting that I hate to bring it up, you know, I just but you know I've written a script before. No big deal.

That's good to know. I didn't know that about you. Yeah, I'm so glad I know that now. Well, congratulations on still having a master's to thank you take it away from you after all that money. Yeah, imagine if they did, like you don't use it in four years, are like, sorry, you got to take it now. Unfortunately it's got like an expiration date. Dude, he still owes two hundred thou dollars. Well, I feel like I'm using it every day, every day

that we record an episode. I'm using that Master's baby. Yeah, this is a this is a coping mechanism. This is totally screenwriter adjacent for sure. Like some people totally never even thank you for helping me validate my choices. We've all made lovely We've all made choices, you know what I mean? Like I make choices all the time. Some of them were good. Some of them we're not saying whatever, hey, kind of like what happens in today's movie. Quit people

making choices. Some of them are some of them are okay, masterful. I learned about transitions in writing classes. Again, I don't like to bring it up. So I saw Ladybird in the theater. I liked a lot the first time. I would say that I didn't like it quite as much the second time. Some of it's I had the opposite experience. Yeah, I know, I would say, because I read it first. I liked the script better than I liked the movie interesting just a little bit only because of the casting choices.

I was surprised by some of them. But yeah, I was surprised by the boyfriend, her first boyfriend. That's that casting choice, especially because he just looked so much more like a baby than she does. And I like, it was glaring to me, like, just get someone older. We all know they're older playing younger, so it's like, so that was weird. And I thought the brother casting was and the girlfriend I thought those were both kind of weird casting choices. So I ever seen either of those

actors before, thank me, neither. So this is I think we are to understand autobiographical of Gwig's life. Does she have like I wonder if she has like an adopted sibling or not? I look it up neither. Maybe, Well, well that's from doing for my understanding that autobiographical portion is that she lived in a small town and wanted to go to school in New York. So everyone who's ever everybody has had the sixth right, so it's so relatable. Every time the mother and the daughter are on screen

in this movie. I'm crying. I like fully allowed myself to be manipulated. Oh my god. There are some lines in there that really get a tear out. The scene where they're shopping at the Good Wealthy when she asked her do you like me? The yeah, because they were shopping at that time too. Yeah, yeah, anytime they're in a startic we wouldn't be shopping but having them deep

fast conversations. Oh my god, the one. But I'm thinking of the part where they they're having a fight when they're like looking at close on the rack and then she pulls up one dress and then immediately they're not fighting. Yeah, it's like, it's so good. Yeah, I'm gonna I thought the movie did such a great job of showing how you can forgive your kid for who they are at that age, if that makes sense, you know, because you can tell her mother loved her and knows that she'll

grow up and knows that she'll be more responsible. She just wants more for her, but doesn't like her at this age because she's so annoying. I guess I'm reading a little bit about Greta Gerwig the early life section of her Wikipedia that a scholar but This does actually seem like a pretty close adaptation of what her life was, where her mom was an O B G y N nurse, her dad worked for a credit union. She has a

younger brother. They don't say if he is adopted, but and then she went to an all girls Catholic school in Sacramento. And she describes herself as a quote an intense child, which also attracts with ladybirds. So so, speaking of that, I'll kind of give a recap of the story Caitlin's famous riga. We focus on Christine McPherson, who has given herself the name Lady Bird and she wants everyone to call her that. She is a senior in high school in Sacramento at an all girls Catholic high school.

She does not especially like Sacramento, or at least she doesn't think that she does, and she is gearing up to be applying for colleges because she doesn't like Sacramento in California in general. She doesn't want to go to any of like the U C. State schools around. She wants to go to New York. She wants to go on the East Coast, so kind of that's on her mind. She has a difficult relationship with her mother, Marian, played by Laurie Metcalfe. Her mother is a bit overbearing, She's

pretty judgmental. They get in a lot of arguments. Her dad, on the other hand, is like total beta male, like sweetest guy ever. And she has a best friend named Julie who throughout the sister I didn't know that until earlier today. Yeah, I did not. Now that I know that, I can totally see it right. Like she was she was my favorite or one of one of my favorite performances in the movie. I really loved her. I loved her. I can't wait to see her more stuff. Same, she's awesome.

Yeah so um. Over the course of the movie, their friendship has sort of an arc where they're very close. But then Ladybird meets this other girl in her class named Jenna. Is it. She comes from a wealthier family and she's more popular, So Ladybirds like I want to be also like hello sexual, she's and they well made and like a sexpot in a way. That is because this movie takes place in O two, right, Yeah, it's very like an O two sexpot kind of vibe where I like, in a way I can't even describe. It

was just like it's almost like a Britney Spears. Yeah, like approachable but like like having way more sex and it's comfortable age. Maybe get a parent as soon as you see her? Yeah, like the is there a scene where she's chewing bubble gum Like it's like on the lips, titties are out, Like she's just but she looks so young, right, Yeah, yeah, I think that she actually is. That is kind of a weird casting thing in this movie where it seems like the high school's mostly populated by kids that age,

and then Sarsha Rounan is like, yeah, exactly, oh is she? Yeah? Is that how you say her name? Yeah? I learned from I had to watch the Goldic Clubs and just be like, how do they what are they gonna say? There's so many vowels. Yeah, I'll trying to remember that. Sa. Meanwhile, Timothy Shardonnay is it And but I'm getting ahead of Timothy. Charlottagne a friend charlottagne um little Howard's in. So her friendship with Jenna sort of displaces Julie a little bit,

but then they drama club. She's good, but she's not so many drama Club Trauma Flashbacks got just like the sincerity of a high school drama club, and like watching that, you're just like, oh my god. Yeah, and then and then it's so bad. It's so bad. It was well done. How bad they made it yeah, and how they can't tell how bad it is great portrayal of drama club.

Like yeah, like when they cut to the scene and it's like they're they're like writhing around and primary colors right, and they think it's the most future like this is like six ship right here, like this is the best stuff you've alrea done in all ads and it's awful, like unwatchable. There's like a shot of the parents and they're just like these are kids, so we're like we have to summach god. I would shut. There's got to be like video evidence of my high school drama club somewhere,

but I would I would die. I was never in drama club. I did um mock trial and I was on the soccer team. That was my extra curriculums. I was on mock trial and the tennis team. Tennis. I would I would like to play. I will, let's doll you about it. I've been playing tennis anyway, Jamie complete tennis with us Okay, Suttle YouTube. I played Division three in college so terribly. Yeah A yeah, I'm not good at tennis. He's kidding. I'm not. I'm just fairly Okay,

that's all you have to be your D three in college? Oh? Is D three the division where you should show up? Yeah? I like to say it to intimidate people that don't know what I'm talking about. But it's really impressive. Yeah it does great. I was I was, I was blue. Yeah. Anyway, So Ladybird, uh so she has these different friendships. Ladybird gets involved with this boy named Danny, who she meets

through the theater production that they dood flashbacks. Yeah, he turns out to be gay, but I think we're supposed to believe that she might have her first kiss with him, or she says it's her first kiss. Okay. Then she gets involved with Timothy Charlemagne and who is like, who really is so good in this movie where you just hate great performance, horrible character, hate that guy. And then meanwhile she's you know, having conflicts with her mother. She's

applied to New York schools behind her mother's back. All these things kind of come to a head around graduation when she gets wait listed it I think n y U, and her mother finds out about it, and she's all upset because the family is also lower middle class. They don't father was laid off, so they're having troubles that Her mom, I think is a nurse in a psychiatric hospital and she's working double shifts to pay for basically

the whole family. And then Ladybird also has a brother, Miguel, and his girlfriend, Shelley, who also lives with the family.

I wish I saw we saw those characters more. But Shelly especially seems like she has like one moment, but it's only sort of to be like labir'd be nice to your mom, and that's sort of all you get, which is weird because it sounds like there was like a lot there where it sounds like she was kicked out of her house for having Yeah, but they give her a kind of a decent storyline later, you know, because Shelly tells Ladybird how cool her mom was, because

you know, when her actual mom kicked her out, her mom took her in very easily. And also Shelley's other storyline is wanting Ladybird to like her. Yeah, oh yes, because there's that scene over they're eating eggs and then Shelly's like, your sister doesn't like me, and Migul was like, yeah she does, and everyone's like fighting and yelling. It's cute. Yeah, so yeah, and then the story ends with her getting into the school in New York. Moving there, she drops Ladybird.

Oh yeah, she starts dropping by Christine. Her mother and she have not really reconciled by the time she leaves, but her mom has written her all these notes and basically she like calls and leaves a phone message being like Mom, I love you, and and then that's kind of the end of the movie. And then she goes, yeah, which will stop very quickly after we started going to college.

It's just a matter of time. But you know that description like that, the movie has so many great scenes and so many great moments and so many great lines like that you totally relate to from going to high school and starting to experience all these things and like, I'm from Taunton, Massachusetts. Way that's crazy, that's crazy, but totally you want to get out of there. You yeah, like you love and respect the town and the people that are there and you know everyone, and it's like

it's very much familiar. But you know, I related to the movie so much in that sense that I was like, oh my god, I get I gotta get out of here. Yeah. Right, the same experience for me. I grew up in a small town in rural Pennsylvania, graduated only a year after Ladybird's character did, so I was in high school right at the same time, you know, justin Timberlake's Crimeer River was all the rage for me to so good. Also had a bit of a tumultuous relationship with my mother

at the time. My mom LORI shout out to Lorie. Uh, she's chilled out considerably since then, but I'm sure you were perfects and she wanted to hang out with you. So that's what she did because she never let me leave the house. She didn't let me do anything. We were fighting about that all the time, Like we just

argued a lot. When I was a teen, I dealt with my mom's over protectiveness in a different way, Like my parents didn't let me go to problem, Like my mom was super like my mom is super religious and overprotective, which I totally get, you know, what I mean. But I was like so super calm about it. I was really I was just like, all right, well, I'll just live at college and then I'll move away. I was too impatient because it's like, there's no point I'm not, like,

I'm not rebellious towards my parents. I don't see any use in that. I think the world is already so hard, Like why would I give my my parents even more problems? And also like there's logic to her being overprotective. It just of course is oppressive to be so locked down all the time. But she tot n I I did go to ton Nill. Yeah, I don't know. Are literally the towns there right next to each other neighbors? Love your mom, great mom. I don't love the tot of mall. Really,

that was always my face. You'd to go there. My mom would bring me a totton mall is like a special treat. And she was like, I'd got to Claire's, have at with like the red tag items at Claire's. God, there's nothing worse, nothing else to do, and there's no mall worse than the Brockton Mall. Agree only because I go get all of my we've there so we've taught there's that makes sense. Yeah, but in Brockton there's like lots of we've that's where all the black people live.

It's great, it's yeah, I love fracton someone right. Well, I didn't even have a mall in my hometown, so well you were like in the woods space Yeah, yeah, for sure. So this movie I think has a great depiction of a relationship between a high school young woman and her mother. Um, we've talked before on the podcast about movies set in high school often don't feel like any They don't look like any high school you've ever seen, they don't feel like any high school you went to.

Like they just feel like a Hollywood version of what high school is, and they don't ever totally feel real. But to me, seeing this young woman just like that felt real. Her high school experience, her relationship with her mother is such a more in depth relationship than we often see explored in a movie, like a mainstream Hollywood movie like this. That alone made me. Especially the first time I really enjoyed this movie, I was like, Wow,

this feels so honest. Seeing at the second time, I was like, I don't think I like Ladybird as a character very much. That was what I struggled with the first time. But then the second time when I saw I was like, oh, but I think that that means

that the movie is doing a good job. Yes, that's the thing, because the characterization is so well done, and I think we're supposed to come, at least for me, coming away from this, I was like, Oh, you know, I don't really like this character, but I think she's she's frustrating, she's immature, but she's that we're all terrible at that age. And I think we're supposed to come away from this like thinking, Yes, she has potential to learn and grow, and that's what her mom wanted for her,

to be the best version of herself. Yeah, just to kind of come into her own. You know, this is a coming of age story if you will. Uh. Yeah, I think we're supposed to just like take away, Wow, look how honest day portrayal this relationship and these relationships were in this movie. So that was my main takeaway from it. I loved it. My main takeaway from it was the mom Laurie Metcalt character, because we I just feel like moms are so underappreciated in culture and society.

And when I turned thirty, something happened in my brain when two things became very important to me, my skin and my mom. What happened, But like I immediately like I don't know what it is about, like growing older and I don't have kids, but it just made me understand my mom in ways that I've just never understood

her before. And I like love watching Ladybird come to understand her mom towards the end of the movie, you know, like like that's what it was, like so great about that it would have been like that's what I think was the redeeming quality of her character because you don't like her and you're not supposed to like her, but at least by the end, she becomes like this very apologetic, very grateful like kid who finally realizes like the emotional labor of her like being her mom. Like that that's

what it was. It's like this heavy lifting to like

love you got there there towards the end. It is like I had times like that with I mean, like we all see us in our mom's in this movie, but like the scene at the sink where Laura cass washing dishes and it's being very you know I'm not talking to you, and Ladybird is flipping the funk out Like I had so many moments of that with my mom where I would say something stupid or like lash out in some weird hormonal way at her, and then she would just shut down and then I would be like,

I don't I don't remember the exact line of dialogue, but it really like hit me the second time, especially when when she was like, you don't have to you know, like we just talked to me, just talked to me, just talked. I was like, Fuck, I did that with my mom like every other day. Uh. Gregor growingg did such an amazing job of like finding these so specific moments that somehow like resonate on this huge level, like

anytime they're at a store. And then oh, there's one of the things that I loved both viewings is when they go to look at the nice houses right after she too beautiful. Um yeah yeah. And then my thing with the with the movie. The first time I remember I saw it in theaters with my friend who grew up in Sacramento at that exact time, and so her gripes were all like sacramental related, and I didn't know

what they were. But the things that I was like bummed out about the first time was I genuinely was mad at Ladybird for bailing on Julie. Yeah, but that means that it's just like, you know, the movie got a serious reaction out of me because I was like, what, like Julie didn't get like a good apology. That sucks. But again, that's just like a thought I had about the and then and then I did wish that that the relationship between Ladybird and then Danny, Danny right when

he comes out of it. I wish that that, like you get a great moment and we and we see that their friends down the line. But I just I wish that that was like explored a little bit more. Same. Yeah. And also it's like again it's so you can't watch this movie and not make it personal. But like I I had, I had a gay high school boyfriend that

you know. There. I was like, there's there's so many like weird, cool moments you could go back to, but movies I would have taken a little bit less Timothy Shallow may Uh and just swapped out He's I mean, and that character is great. I like, it was so well written in terms of just like what a fuck he's got he's got Howard's in like that you know exactly who he is and and you even find out he's like, oh my dad has cancer and he's still the worst, which really speaks to how annoying he is.

But like, yeah, my main grand of the movie. The first time, I was like, I wish we got more Danny. I thought that that was like a cool relationship we didn't see. Yeah, Lady Bird does kind of redeem herself with her mom at the end, like you were saying, Charlotte, But I feel like I wanted more of a redemption with both Danny and her best friend Julie, because she does go back at the end, like right before prom, and we don't see her actually apologize verbally. Maybe she

doesn't need to. Maybe their friendship is on such a level where she doesn't. Just her showing up and hanging out with her is enough. I don't know. Maybe I'm like kind of working through this in real time. I do like that they reconciled. I don't know, I just wish that because the first time I saw the movie, I was like, she's funny, she's spunky, she's bold, she's

like really outspoken, and I liked that about her. And then the second time around, when I was like paying more close attention, I was like, oh, she's kind of mean to her friend, and she's she is, but it made me, I know, I don't know, it just made

me annoyed with her. And then she like makes that racist comment to her brother where she's basically implying that he only got into UC Berkeley because of like affirmative action, and he's just like, you're the worst, and and I was just like, oh, she's a little piece of ship. But again, we all are at that time, so and that's I mean, I thought it was accurate. It is, it is, it is, And I think that's partially why

she's so frustrating, because she is. And you know what I love the most is at the end of the movie when she's at that party and um, the guy asked her where she's from and she says and he doesn't really hear her, and she changes her answer to San Francisco, and I love that that she's still lying, like even because that's a theme throughout the movie that she lies about the house that she lives in, and like yeah. Yeah, she's a terrible person, which her friend

Julie after she learns her lesson Justice for Julie. Yeah, justice for Julie. But like, I love that at the end she's still lying because it's this great reminder that change is slow and that you know, maybe at the end of the four years she'll be a different person. But her first party at college, she's still that. She's

still Ladybird, She's still Christine. She's still not comfortable in this new role of she's not older, she's just in a different place, you know, which was really cool and it's cool to see her kind of figure that out in time because she I mean, and that is part

of what I found frustrating about the character. And again it's like the more we talk about it, it's like it's not that doesn't mean that it's not I mean, that means it's really good because and I recognize this like behavior in you know, like girls they new in high school of like they'll try out a club and

then if they're not immediately the center. Like that was like Ladybird wanted attention, and when she didn't get like a role she thought was sufficient for her, she was like, oh, funk off by and then moved on to the next thing, which is Jenna, and then moved on to the next Like she's just all, you know, just like a very

teenage selfishness. And it's weird, I mean, because she also she is insecure in some way, like she is a very confident character, but there are some ways that yeah, Like this was something I remember feeling myself to, Like she was so confident but also very adamant about her own like mediocrity and was not really delusional in any way about Like she's like, yeah, my grades aren't good enough, but I'm going to figure it out, right, Yeah, like that we know of yet. That's such a great line.

And and you know, like when her mom was like, oh, do you still like drama, She's like, no, I don't think I'm good at it. Like Ladybird won to find the easiest way to do everything. Yeah, yes, which you know, which is a lot of us is understandable. Yeah that's hard. Yeah.

So these are just very well written characters that we usually don't see on screen because especially female characters are such one dimensional, underdeveloped people who don't feel like real people that it is refreshing to see such dynamic characters in this movie. Yes, I agree, I love I want to talk about Julie. I think she's my favorite character. We need to talk about. We need to talk about

Julie new movies starting to listen. So one of the things I want to say about her is that I really like that we get representation on screen of a young woman who is fat. We almost never see fat women in movies. Even of the female characters that we've talked about on this podcast who we love and we think are such like badass female characters, they're almost always

like these unrealistically thin women. Hollywood is very guilty of portraying this like unrealistic standard of beauty that like no one can achieve and having their like badass, strong female protagonists and female characters still be very by Western standards,

very beautiful and very thin. So I just really liked that we see a very lovable, good character, smart like she gets cast in the lead of the play even though she does not have that stand out of an audition like that was where I was like, she had

a weird and lady bird. I thought had a pretty good audition, so too, it was extra as hell, but that same yeah, but just the fact that we see that representation I think is really great because we haven't talked that much about like kind of the body positivity movement on this podcast. Yeah, and I mean I feel like we don't talk about it a lot because we so rarely see other body types in any movie we can,

which is also worth mentioning that we hardly ever see that. Yeah, and kind of being to that point, I thought that the way that that was, I mean, that was in no way a focal point even of Julie's character really, but they're the few times that like Julie, like she says a few times like oh I feel so fat right, Like there's like a little comments and Ladybird never quite knows how to deal with it and respond and she'll be like me too, or like something like connected with

with those moments too, of like when your friend expresses an insecurity and then you're like, oh, I don't know what to do with this. I'm just gonna say I feel the same way, even though, like, yeah, like because I've seen very early on they're looking through a magazine at the store where McGill works at, and um, they see like an ad of this like probably photoshopped model. Yeah, even today, all that ship is being photoshopped. Julie says,

you know, why can't I look like that? I think Ladybird doesn't really respond or like, doesn't say anything that important. But then Ladybird reflects that same sentiment much later on in the movie when she's shopping for her prom dress and she comes out and there's address it's a little too tight, and you know, she's saying, like, why don't

I look like the women in the magazines? Which is a bit on the dose, you know, But yeah, I do like those little moments where, you know, Julie, like you said, it expresses an insecurity, which, you know, again just a totally realistic thing for women of all ages to be insecure about. So I just, yeah, I just really liked that representation and that that was addressed in the movie. I would like to see more movies feature just a strong female lead that doesn't have that quote

unquote ideal body shape. I'd like to see representation across the board of just you know, other shapes and sizes. Doesn't seem like we're quite there yet in Hollywood. I don't think so, but I it's on the horizon. I can already. I can feel it in my bones. It's coming.

You know, when you see I really do. Like when you see more women directors, you see more women screenwriters, you see women really getting the means of production, like you know, like you have a Shonda Rhymes that exists, you have an Operah that exists, Oprah has a network, Like I don't see how in the next ten to twenty years, based on the way those women look, you know, and what they've already done, like that that work isn't

pushed more. And like women like us who want to see ourselves represented on screen, even aniss ray with hard natural hair, like that's mind boggling to me, Like you don't see a lead with natural hair like ten years ago ever, you know, Like now it's everywhere. Now It's like I don't even know how to take care of my natural hair. Now, I'm like, oh my god, now it's a trending to figure it out. But it's like seriously, like I really I think it's I think it's only

going to get better. Really, yeah, I hope. So I think it writes me happy. I feel uplifted. You guys don't agree. You don't think it's going to get better. I think so often we get caught in the mire of like where you're usually covering movies that are a little bit older, and it's so easy to just get bogged down with like Jesus Christ, we're given James Franco

Golden Gloves. Okay, you know, Like, but it does seem like there is a system that is, if not being pushed all the way out, is at least being pushed to the side, which is I think the most promising thing is that system is seeing how financially like it's it can't last long like that that system find like like people aren't supporting movies that only have this or that, Like I think a movie like Black Panther, which I personally have been excited to see so ready, but the

fact that that or or even like Ladybird, let's just usually the movie we're talking about, a movie like Ladybird that is financially successful, you know, like from the time when Bride'smaids was financially successful. Everything's about money in this industry. So it's just once they see that they're this structure that's built on these oppressive kind of ideas because only a handful of people are only so many people get to make these decisions when their bottom line isn't being

because they can't find it, they can't finance. But people aren't putting people putting money anymore because they know they don't have to see something like that. They have to change or they die, which is fine. Some of them will go away, and some of them will wise up and like make movies with women and people of color and like put people or like even better, I hate having to like shove my way into like the person of powers, you know position. I'd rather just create my

own thing and then you die naturally. You know. Competition is great in that way, you know, like when you're making something people want to see, Like I don't have to push my way to the table. I can make my own table and make my own film and make my own you know. And I think it's I think it's amazing. I think it's gonna be dope. And it was like all these different platforms, things are so much more accessible than they used to be with the studio

system and all that. It sucks that for like the Hollywood studio system, the motivator for them is money and not showcasing marginalized voices like it's good, that's capitalist socialist Caitlin overright, So go get your plow, get a libertarian, libertarians own plows. That's just like a fun thing. I enjoyed pushing in the world. Um yeah, and when movies like Ladybird, I want to see how beyond its budget it it made. But like this movie did so well,

and I was I was surprised that. And I think there's just like a cultural shift of a couple of years ago. Do I think my brother, my little brother would go out of his way to see Ladybird? No, like, but he did, and he's seen it twice. I mean that has to do with the movie Past two. But but like it is cool that there is like a culture shift happening where you don't necessarily see Lady Bird

and you're like, oh, it's the girl movie. We're not going to go, but like, yeah, where it's like my yeah, my dad and my brother's old Ladybird and they just and I think unless they were like play me, I think I just thought they saw a movie, which is which they did. But I think ten years ago they would have been like, oh, yeah, we saw I can't

believe I had to go see the girl movie. You know, do you know what that makes me think of When you say they saw a quote unquote girl movie and they are just talking about it like a normal movie. It makes me think of the me Too movement or just the sexual harassment culture in Hollywood that everyone's been talking about. About, how like dudes are just like, well, how are we supposed to talk to women? They're a person.

Imagine talking to another guy, but that you might you know, and like ask like would you touch another guy if you didn't ask that person or didn't know if it was okay? You know, like the sexual attraction part is you know, one piece. But then also they're also a person. That's what I would like to say people that are confused. It's well, it's been shoved down everybody's throat in media and just culture in general that actually women aren't really people,

their objects. So all these men who like don't know how to talk to women are like don't know how to treat them. It's because they've been spoon fed these ideas that like women are objects and that they're not real people and they don't have autonomy. So yeah, they're just like jiggling boobs sometimes they have a name. Sometimes they don't even Like you guys were talking about when

you go back and watch old movies, It's true. When I go back and watch old movies, I'm like, holy sh and like even like recent past, like something that this movie didn't really address that that I mean, I

just think that there wasn't time. But like I would be so interested, like what were the movies Ladybird and Julie were like seeing in two thousand two, because it had to have been a fucking nightmare, Like, because that's kind of I feel like the early two thousands was weirdly especially bad in the ways that women are projecting. I'm kind of I think plugging in my time at working in the Playboy archives as a litmus test for that. But like the early two thousand was especially pushing, like

a insane body type on the world. Um that's less realistic than almost any other era I can think of. So I kind of wish I knew, Like I'm like, oh, because they don't talk about movies. Music is discussed and the soundtrack is like awesome. I like. Also, to date, Lady Bird has practically quadrupled it's budget ten million budget. It's made thirty nine point one million. That's amazing. Yeah.

I mean that's nowhere near what a blockbuster gets, which is upsetting, but people are buying tickets to go saying it's a good exciting. Another thing I wanted to talk about is I love how like sex positive that household is. Yes, Oh my god, Yeah, it's really cool to see. We almost never seen that. And I loved how when she asked her mom when it's a good time to have sex? Yeah? Mom? What she says, she has a little She's like sex, yeah, yeah, and she says truthfully no because she hadn't had sex

yet at that point. And then her mom says, I say college. And then she's like, and make sure you use protection like we talked about, which was implying that they've already had the sex talk, like if you're going to do it, just like you know, use protection, make sure you're ready, all that stuff. There's that conversation which I really loved. I really liked. I think it's earlier

on in the movie. But um, ladybirds, mom and dad are like in the bathroom and my mom says, like, do you think Miguel and Shelley have sex on the pull up cad. He was like, oh yeah, and they laughed about it like I love it so like, because I don't know how religious the family is, I think that because Ladybird goes to an all Catholic high school.

Maybe I'm assuming that because they addressed that to you, that they said that Miguel saw someone stabbed in public school, and so god, I remember that argument against like public school. I just like, someone got stabbed once, and it's like so, I guess my point was I assumed that the family was at least religious enough to send their kid to

a religious school, but maybe not. Either way. The fact that they that it was like a pretty sex positive household, Um, did either of you grow up in like households like that, very religious households? No, like sex positive, not at all sex negative. My mom was actually for as liberal as she is. My mom is, or at least was at the time, not so progressive about sex. Now. I talked to her all the time about raw dog and dudes. No, not really, I call your mother speaking. I call my mom.

You know what, maybe I'm going to regret the sentence of it. I call my mom like basically anytime I have a new sex partner of Like, Mom, can I send you pit because like a dream world, I can never I'm married and I can't. Really my mom is so like if you go home with your husband, does she make you sleep in separate bedrooms? We sleep in the same bedroom. But like it's like I don't even it,

just doesn't want to hear it. Like she doesn't believe in like birth control, like for married couples, Like she thinks like she's that, like she thinks we should be having kids already. Whish. I'm just like, oh my god, my mom. My mom was so sex positive to the point where I like she kind of like fucked me up in the reverse way where there were multiple times in high school I lost my virginity. I mean, I talk about all the fucking time I do, I do,

I do, I do a whole fucking chow. But but but all I had to say my mom approached me several times before I lost my virginia and she was like, Oh, you haven't lost your virginia? Are you sick? Like are you Yeah? She was like, are you not doing it right? Like why? Because she loved my mom love all of my high school boyfriends to the point of like, are you hitting on them? And she was like you should, yeah, go for it, you know. And she but she was also great with like she brought me to the doctor.

Anytime I would start dating someone, she would bring me to a doctor to kind of just you know, remind me that I could have sex. But she was I don't know. I think my mom was like, Jamie, why aren't you like, oh wild little slat. I was like, I actually like reading to read. Okay, at the time, I wasn't a reading slut, but now I'm a reading slut. I'm not great. Uh yeah, So I feel I feel lucky to have grown up in a household like that. And then my dad, I think, sort of like Ladybird's dad,

uh was not. I mean, it would have been weird if he was just like, you haven't sex, what's going on? But he was like tolerant and cool and nice about it.

And as was her mom, which I think is really the what Lady Bird and her mom do fight about, and then what they don't fight about, I think is really telling of both of their characters as well, because you've seen a million times in movies, and then also our real lives of being really scared to approach your mom about sex stuff, and you know, and fear of her judging you and being called a slut and things

like that. But the fact that no judgment has passed in their conversation about sex, and the fact that they don't fight about it, whereas they fight about all kinds of other stuff. But the fact that no shame is attached to Ladybird potentially having sex, I thought was really awesome to see. I wonder if that's California. Yeah, because you know, like you being from rural Pennsylvania, like there's no way sex negative, Like I'm from a hate I'm Haitian, I was born in Haiti, Like I'm from a very

immigrant background. Like that's very common for you know, parents in those kinds of backgrounds to not be sex positive. So but the people that I meet from California, particularly San Francisco, of course, But like I'm imagining even play is like Sacramento. I'm wondering if it is a little bit more open and a little bit more there's more education and people are more laid back about young people having sex, not even like laid back, because there's no

reason to be bananas about it, just more understanding. I guess accepting people because I thought that same California thing when we see how chill the nuns are. I was like, oh, these are some California nus. They're unborgettable. You did not just oh my god, man, I man shout out to the nuns having fun calendar Nuns. You ever have the nuns having fun calendar? Everyone? Oh dude, yeah. For my aunt is like really into the duns having fun calendar.

I thought that was making a joke. No check no, check it out, like if you it's one of the better Google image searches. You can be nuns having fun. They're doing all sorts of stuff. They're they're at the beach, they're they're they're climbing a I have a very specific image of a bunch of nuns in a tree. Just

smile and you're like, great, this is they're having fun. Anyways, the nuns are very chill in this movie, yes, which I thought was a fun choice of the things that you would assume in like a coming of age movie would provide the most resistance. Kind of don't in this movie where I you know, when it opened at a religious school, I'm like, oh, there's going to be some religion struggle in this, but that's not really where the movie chooses to go um, which I thought was like

cool and smart. Yeah, the non representation in cinema is like, you know these well, my nun representation as sisters, that's all I've ever seen. And I'm just like, nuns are always portrayed awesome and like their lives are awesome, And I almost wonder if it's because they don't have to men don't have to be attracted to them, so they don't have to be represent it as anything but fun and cool and care for you because they love one man. And uh. Doubt my favorite movie of all time. It's

one of my favorites. I've seen Doubts so many. I don't know why. It speaks to ye dark. It's very dark. I watched it a couple of times a year. It is in your head. It's it's an actor's film. I love it. It's all five everyone across the board. Beautiful work. It is beautiful acting in that film. Doubt passes the Bechdel test easy, easy, because it's like Amy Adams and Meryl Street design the word doubt back and forth. Doubt.

I got doubt. But don't doubt they have doubt in men they have Well, yeah, I mean the job will that passing the Bechtel test. We're going to talk about doubt. We'll do the episode that's going to be a five hour barn burner of a beck song cast episode. Is because I feel like I talked about doubting every Yeah, that's true. Dot is become our new Titanic almost although yeah, we really talk about Titanic a lot. It's good taste. As you can tell that it does. It's because she

talks to her mom. Titanic fair is way better than you would think on almost every really trying to think of what conversations has she have had that word about her husband? Well, and then also at the beginning, it's like the old lady and her granddaughter granddaughter talk. Kathy Bates talks to other women there. So I mean, it's not not the best, but it does weigh better than

you think. Back to Ladybird though, I couldn't help but notice how many people you see crying in this movie, and how several of them are men, Because you see Danny crying, you see that priest crying, who's like directing the school musical God, that was what a beautiful tragic character. Yeah,

I wish you maybe found out a little well. So you see a scene where he's making to Ladybird's mom in the psychiatric hospital, and you don't know exactly what's going on, except you can kind of assume that he is probably still grieving from the death of his son and depressed. And I felt so like whenever she's like, do you have a support system and he's like, what do you mean, Like, do you have anyone you can

talk to when you feel this way? And he said no, not really, I was like, Oh, my heart is breaking for this man. And again it's just like the writing of this movie is so good. Is we barely see that character and he still we still have such a strong emotional response to it. And it's really funny line too, after after the drama show and then he's like they

didn't understand. It reminded me in my high school theater director to mental health is addressed again whenever Ladybird goes into Julie's house before they go to prom, and Julie is just crying and she's like, what's happening? Why are you crying? And she's like I'm just crying and she's like what, and she's like, some people just aren't built happy. And I was like, and I think that they dress it with the father character too, Oh yeah, yeah, because

he's on antidepressant. He's an antidepressant, and then Lady Ver, his mom is sensitive to it until sometimes she'll just use it as sort of like an argument chip of like your father is depressed, and stop, so stop being such a fucking bummer, Like yeah, but I thought that that was interesting too, of like, yeah, I guess we do see like men dealing with I actually missed the Julie being depressed part because she wasn't going to go to prom, so I thought she was crying about that

and just didn't want to admit that. I wasn't sure what that moment. That's what I thought that moment was interesting. I interpreted it because of her I think that that's easy to assume. But then when she says, you know, some people just aren't built happy, I just I thought she was maybe just having sort of a depressive episode,

and but I don't know, Yeah, maybe you're right. And they got a prown together, yeah, and then they and they do have a really nice time, and if she had been depressed, I hope A Ladybird helped kind of alleviate that for at least a little while. Did you did you see the picture that was sort of like circulated around of Greta growing directing that scene. I think so, yeah, she were she wore a prom dress to direct that. It's like, it's so nice. I wonder if she's like

super like weird girl. Well, granted Garwig is, because I personally, I mean her most. I would say Frances Hall was her big thing. And I cannot stand Frances Hall. I didn't get it. Yeah, I'm like, who was this? What's going on? Who was that movie before? And and I couldn't stand her character and it I was like, what is she doing? She's the whole dancing in the street vibe to France. F Oh, I didn't. I think I only watched the first twenty five minutes of it and

then we never went back to it. And that that was really my only experience of Greta Gerwick prior to knowing that she had made this movie. Like I knew who she was, Like she's randomly in the JACKIEO biopic for some reason, like so like I knew she was, but I was like, oh, the Francis Holly, I don't want to see this. But it turns out that she is better than friends, like it was just it was exciting and now I'm fully teamed credit. Actually, I think

she's brilliant. I would love to meet her one day. I hope she is weird. I always she's got it if you want to come on the podcast to Velvet. Sorry, sorry about friends, I said about Francis, HA, when you put out your art, that's what happens. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure there's people you can't imagine. There's many, but I'm sure there's people out there who don't even like the

Bechdel cast. So they talked about doubt too much main criticism and also it's very impressive given the sheer number of characters we see in this movie, of how every character has their moment pretty much. There wasn't like there wasn't the symptom of too many characters and then we just lose some, although I do wish we'd see more. N You guys love this character. I loved I'm in Vivlin. I do definitely hate Timothy chardon Ay. I like him

as an actor. I hate his character, but even he gets a moment too of like he has a little bit of depth, and you know, he's like he's a piece of ship and as shitty the Ladybird, but Ladybird's kind of shitty, and and he has a sick dad, and it's like, you know, I don't know. The scene where she loses her virginity to him and then she thinks that he has also lost his virginity to her, and she's like, wow, we took each other's flowers and he's like, nah, I've had sex with maybe six other people.

I don't know. It's like shut up quipping so cool, and then that and she's like, how could you not even know if it's six people? I've definitely like said that when I was like younger to be like how do you not know the exact number and order? What's wrong with you? But that really upsets her because she says, like I thought we were like sharing the experien It's like this my whole experience or my perception. This is

completely wrong. And then the scene right after that, her mom picks her up and she on the verge of tears, and her mom's like, what's wrong, and then she just kind of sinks into her mom's embrace, and it's like, you see this really tender moment between these two characters who you're usually seeing fighting, but I like the balance of them fighting but then also having like warm, tender moments like that is just like, really, I don't know it just it's my robot heart that usually doesn't respond

emotionally to things unless it's padding to inter Paddington two, I really felt something there and I didn't do has a perfect score and written to too is the best movie. I haven't padding to everyone who can't see it. Kaitlin just gave me a look. I've never known you to have such a strong and you have strong opinions on a lot of things, but nothing is stronger than padding to. It's it's a live action except the bear Paddington. Paddington Bear is c g I. The first movie is terrific.

The second movie is even better. It's it's so good it is hard to believe, especially because the movies are not marketed well because it's their children and family movies. So I won't get into it. Just know that Paddington two is the best movie of this century. So that's all. Yeah, what's the story? Like, quick, quick, like, what is it about? Paddington is a bear who lives in Peru. He gets displaced by an earthquake. He has to move to London. This is Paddington one. He's looking for a family to

take him in. And then this family finds him. The father is like, oh, a bear. No, and mom is like, no, we have to help this bear. It's an allegory for immigration and racism and it's so good. And then they take him in and they try to help him find this explorer and they won't spoil it. And then Paddington two, he's in the family. Now he gets wrongfully accused of a crime. Hugh Grant gives the performance of a lifetime. Wow,

this is an epic movie. Yes, it's great. Yeah, yeah, so check out Paddington and Paddington Too, hand Ladybirds and The Shape of Water with My new boyfriend fishes. But the movie is pretty good. It's a good love story. But you go for the hot fish. The fish is hot, so yeah. I mean, there's no there's truly no shortage of good movies right now. Don't see the post. Don't

see that, really, skip the post. Oh no, but that screenwriter is like a first time writer and she's so cool, and I think that's I think that Steven Spielberg kind of biffs it up by yeah, just by with a bunch of just like the the story is not the problem.

It's just like the way it's shot. It's so oscar baby in the way it looks, and you know, I haven't heard it's just you know, one of the reasons why I haven't gone to see it is because no one is talking about it, Like I haven't heard any would be like, you gotta go see the posts because you don't. Tania amazing, no way, so good. Yeah, check out our Eitania Patreon episode coming out. Um. One last thing I wanted to say about Ladybird is that it's a very white movie. You do see two people of

color characters, and Miguel and Shelly. The fact that those characters are sort of to me, they felt sidelined. It was kind of crazy that, you know, this is a movie about Ladybird and her home life and her like year leading up to leaving her family. The fact that those are the two characters that we see the like least of screen time wise, and they feel the least developed, Like I don't know, I just feel, like I mentioned this before, I just wish we had seen more of

those characters. I mean, I do think they were sidelined and I don't think they were cast really great. They didn't have like really great like even when they were on camera, they didn't really shine to me. So I thought, I am ad that maybe that was part of the problem, like you don't really want to put them in more because they're not really owning the scenes that they're in. So, I mean, I thought for such a white movie to like,

I I didn't feel like it was that bad. Like I really felt like, because it is it's a movie about a white girl and her mother and their relationship. I don't think it was about these characters. And I think the way that they handled the race, the different races is great because they didn't put them in scenes and then make jokes about their race or you know,

or like the punchline isn't their race, you know? Or like, And then the one time it does come up, Lady Bird's immediately told the fun and they don't ignore it either. They totally call out that they're different races. But it's not like they don't make fun of it. They don't. It's like it's it's well handled for this film. You know, I don't know what the demographics of Sacramento that was part of this, Like this is a very white movie, but it's a period piece in a very specific place,

and maybe that's what it would have looked like. I'm not totally sure, though. I was looking like you know too that as at West Game all. Does anyone have anything else you want to say about labor? I think you just see Ladybird and it's a great movie. You guys haven't seen it. It's it's like if you want good storytelling, great acting by Laurie Metcalfe, and it's like sweet and fun and easy to watch and like you

might cry at the end, maybe yeah. I had like five different moments of you know, like a two second cry where you're like yeah and then it's over. I had a bunch of those. My cry was when they're dropping Ladybird off at the airport and her mother refuses to go out and say goodbye to her or even look at her, and then she drives around the block and you know, runs into the dad's arms crying. She's gonna like, yeah, I thought that was beautiful. Yeah, it

really was. Yeah. So, as we alluded to earlier, this movie for sure passes the Bechdel test. Ladybird's talking to her mom, she's talking to Julie, she's talking to Jenna, she talks to Shelley, talks to the cool nuns, nuns, all kinds of characters, talks to her. She talks to her guidance counselor wasn't her guidance counselor a black woman? Yes, yes, I don't know if we ever it's very quick scene. Yeah,

I don't know if we ever learned her name. So I don't know if I seen technically passes got it. But that was a fun scene of like Lady Bears like, I'm not sure if I have the grades to get into a good school, and she like, last you do not, so you know. Yeah. So they're often talking about school or Sacramento or applying to colleges and all kinds of stuff that are not about boys. It's amazing, but they also do talk about boys, which is high school. Yeah.

There's also a sweet moment in the pool with Jenna when Ladybird asked her what she wants to do in Jenna's as she wants to be a mom, and I was like, wow, I didn't see coming. That was sweet. There's oh. I guess we didn't really have time to talk about the Jenna character, but I thought that she was another small character who is serviced pretty well by

this movie. I agree, where when we first see her, it's like almost draw the conclusion of how the character will be treated, which is like, oh, she's going to be you know, villainized or whatever, and she is a little bit and you know, and you see in the way high school girls sometimes are, like, you see what Jenna is going for, but then you do see those

like human moments, and I agree. And she's actually the one who's hurt at the end of the movie because Ladybird lies to her about where she and she says something like, I don't even I can't even begin to understand why someone would lie about that. So you could see that Jenna was genuinely in it for the friendship and they weren't friends anymore because of Ladybird's being a stupid liar. R so I heard such she is. But Gretta does an excellent job at like putting layers into

these characters for sure. I also liked that scene between Ladybird and Julie where Julie's like, Jenna is a moron. She's like, no, she's an ap calculu. She's like she's a moron in a deeper sense. I also loved the portrayal of a happy marriage that was financially unstable, you know, like I was like the stressors of life, and yet they managed to keep their marriage happy, which I like and that much, and speaking to like the beta when

we've called them Beta Daddy at this point. But but seeing a man in a marriage and is in the beta role and is you know, quote unquote emasculated in a sense when he can't find a job and he is depressed. But I think when we see characters like that, especially male characters, a lot um, it's like we're supposed to believe, like and it's killing him. She wants to be the alpha so bad, but this character doesn't. And it's totally seems very much like Lori's. I mean, I

don't remember the name of her character, Marian. He's very much Marian's emotional support and you can tell that she respects him very much for that which I loved to see a lot of troops that you see over and over again in mainstream Hollywood movies are totally subverted in this movie and it's just like really awesome to see. With that, let us rate the movie on our nipple scale zero to five nipples. We rate based on its portrayal of women. I'm gonna give five nipples, I agree to. Yeah,

I give it five nipples. Yeah, five nipples never happened. The characterization is really great, and yeah, I love a flawed female protagonist. We don't get to see flawed female protagonists enough, and there are a number of movies out right now with very flawed female protagonists that even though they're lying and doing you know, stuff that's fucked up, the writing is there and you can see yourself in it. Like watching this movie as a personal experience and I look, well, Charlotte,

thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Guys, I had so much fun talking about this movie. Where can people find you online? Do you have anything you'd like to plug? Yes? You can find me on Twitter at I'm Charlotte Face, and then also on Instagram I'm Charlotte face and I run a show called Velvet where first Friday of every month at Copper Still in Koreatown at eight thirty. It's a free show. It's always great lineups and it's always a fun time.

And I host Special. It's going to be Thursday, February fift at eight pm at Lyric Hyperion. Kate Berland is on the show. Yeah, and it's it's called special because we're doing long sets. You're like seeing material that they would do if they had a special. Awesome. If you love long sets of stand up com ny, check that out. You can follow the Bacte Cast on all the social media.

You can go to well, you should rate and review us on iTunes, and you should subscribe to our Patreon ITTI like five dollars a month and you get to bonus episodes every month of the Battle Cast. This month you get Ionia and the Disaster Artists Wow Bio February. Also, you should come to our live show. Oh yeah, what's up? Los Angeles, California? Ever heard of it? Yeah? If you live there or near there, we have a live show on February twelve at eight thirty at the Nerdest show

Room at melt On Comic I'm so excited. We're doing the Notebook Baby with past guests from our Butch casting the Sundance episode. Caitlyn Gill will be there, will be there. She's awesome, she's so funny. It's gonna be a great live show. Come on down. Tickets are ten dollars and we're going to have our brand new merch for sale there, so merch Alert, gonna save on shipping. Yeah, get those stickers,

get some buttons, air save. Will be there. I want to meet Yeah, and you can meet us to our you know, your favorite celebrities, Caitlin and Jamie will be there for you to meet and talk to. Our backup dancers will be there. You've never heard our backup dancers before, but they're always here. They're always dancing quietly. Yeah, So come on dostat. Tickets are on sale. You can go to bechdel cast dot com slash live and get your tickets and we'll see you there. You see you there.

Thanks for listening, Thanks for being here, Charlotte. Have a great time everyone, and goodbye by