Josie and the Pussycats with Faye Orlove

and they usually don't make it. They usually don't interrupt a lot. They're usually or sometimes as a male guest, I'm just gonna go ahead and just call out Jack O'Brien. We'll do it. We'll do a loud laugh while we're doing the intro, and it's like you're not supposed to be seen yet, but you're making our guest on the micro Aggression l episode slamming the table basically through the table at us in the first two minutes. Who else is Hampton? For sure? But we are very excited for

our guest today. So wait, we didn't say with the podcast, Okay, we're still in the Power Zone right now the Bechtel Casts our podcast about women and how they're portrayed in movies, and wouldn't you know that mainstream Hollywood cinema does not portray women very well until very recently. I mean, this year is pretty good for women in film. I think this year is pretty good for women. I was like, sorry, have you checked your news out? It's pretty bad out there.

But we've done several movies recently that came out this year that have fared very well by our standards. Yes, I Tanya, Ladybird Girls Trip Hidden Figures came out last year. Yeah, alright, so you know we're there's options, it's getting a little better, there's more options. Historically, Hollywood has not portrayed women well. As my point, I disagree and I have a forty five minute argument. So we use the Bechtel test as

sort of are jumping off point for a discussion. Becktel Tests being the test created by Alison Bechtel and the comic books Watch Out For and in our version of the test, we would like to see movies have two female identifying characters with names talk about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. Does not happen a lot, not enough, but I'm very excited for today's episode. It's a common request when we ask

for requests. I feel like we've seen this movie come up just about as often as like we got a lot of requests for like Legally Blonde as well, which we did on the Patreon. So subscribe and then maybe you can hear about what I think about Victor Garber spoiler alert. This movie. Yeah, we get requests for it because it's a it's a great movie. It's a cult classic. Josie and the Pussycats. Yes, and I'm so excited for our guest today. She's a friend of the cash, she's

a friend of you, she's a friend of me. She owns and operates a nonprofit art space right here in Hollywood, California called Junior High. You gotta check this place out. It's great, it's the best. She's a wonderful visual artist. It's fay or left for crying out loud. I can talk now you can. Thanks for asking permission. Once you said that men usually fail at that, I was like committed. I said something otherwise, must prove myself some some of some of our fem some of our female guests have

violated the rule. But but statistically, first of all, men are allowed on the show simply less. But when they when they do show up, they're talking early, they're talking right, Like I think we may have an example of like Hi, I'm Jamie, Hi, I'm Caitlin. Hi, I'm the guy, and it's like we did not ask you to make yourself known yet. I literally the only thing you told me when we were about to record was that you're going to do it two minute bit at the beginning, just

you guys, and not not to be there. You know, I'm really good at instructions. You can take a good direction better than my best trade, honestly, So, Faye, you brought us Josie the Pussycats, and you also brought us Josie the Pussycats. Stick to you do? They're so good? Yeah? Just can people buy these at your art space Junior High? Actually I don't think they're at Junior High right, and I should bring some, but I just make a bunch of stickers and celebrity junk that's on my website. It's

just great. So, Josie the Postycats, why did you pick this movie? When did you first see it. What's your history with this movie. I have no idea when I first saw it, because that it was just so much a part of me that it feels like I was birthed and I knew every line. But I'm obsessed with it. I know every word of every song. Kind of embarrassingly they did that. I don't know if you guys saw it at the hotel, they did, like the full cast Q and A and the band played like from that

did all the recordings of letters from clear like the singer. Well, it was so cool you were there, right, Yeah, I remember that big aggressively there. I remember those inst stories. Yeah, but like the artist was present that night. Yeah, it was. That was like a dream come true. I think Joseing the Pussycats might be my favorite band. Can you there are very real to me? Yeah, sure, I don't. I'll

allow it. You know they're the best. And they've released a vinyl of all the songs and then there was a mini like seven inch djor single for Yeah, I should have brought that. I'll show it to you later, but it is good marketing. How are you familiar at all with the comics that it was based off. Yeah, I would read Archie all the time as a kid,

and um, that was like my big gift. I would go to My parents would ship me away to Jewish sleepaway camp for a month every summer and I would just wait till like week two and a half and I'd get a package of Archie comics. Are you into Riverdale the show? I started watching it and I just haven't had a ton of time. But I'm into whichever Sprouse twin that is. Yeah, I personally prefer Dylan, you know. I think Dylan's Dylan has like the longer hair, right, Yeah,

he's the thick twin. Yeah, he's cute. I'm here for the thick twin. If there's twins, I'm going for good to get that. Just call all that right off the bat, the thin twin, all right, I'll got the thanks twin. You get the thin twin, I'll read a song about it, and then you don't really know I feel about twins, Jamie. When did you first see the movie? On Christmas? At your house? Yeah? And I do spend all major holidays together.

We were together on Thanksgiving and Christin just tragic and beautiful of your family where they don't like us, they're they're on the East coast. Is too cold, it's too hard to get to. Yeah. So I first saw Josie the Pussycats. It was probably it must have been like two thousand I think it's my freshman year of college, so like two thousand four. Friend showed it to me, instantly, loved it, bought it on DVD right away, watched it dozens of times since then. Definitely one of my favorites.

Super underrated. A lot of people don't know about this movie. If they know about it, they assume that it's terrible. Yeah, well, because it did not get good in views at the time. I mean, I think this was like one of those notoriously bad Ebert reviews, like this is the worst movie movies about girl bands, because he also hated Spiceworld. Really to be Affair is really bad, but it's it's one

of my favor It's bad, but it's it's it's question. Yeah, I wish it was more popular, so more opportunities to whip out the fact that I do know every dance from that movie. Mostly I just performed solo to myself. But of course, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm like in a crazy movie. It's quite right, So, yeah, I saw earlier. I just texted the boy this doesn't pass the fact return to for him. Um, everything's great. I'm shifting around him. I see it like a fucking psychopath and thinking about

the fishes but from the shape of water. All right, well there it starts Sally Hawkins and she is also in Paddington and Paddington two. So good for check out Paddington's, the Paddington's Paddington, the Paddington's, Paddington Expanded Universe, the cinematic universe anyway, So yeah, is it Do you think if Paddington to his cannon or Paddington to believe, you would question this? He was about to like throw up some furniture and I feel unsafe at this time. Okay, So Joe,

what were we talking about? Okay, so I think we can all agree that we enjoy this movie. It's so good. This is one of those movies that I truly don't know how I had not seen it, because it, like every element of it appeals to me, especially and this is and normally I will wax poetic about Alfred Billina, who I think could have found a really fun bit role in this movie. If someone had had their fucking head on. But but for me, this movie is Alan Cumming.

He is the star. I had like a bet with myself how far and we'd be untill when you mentioned Alan coming, and I think I won. Just she's going to bring it up and she will be she will take a drink of water right when she says his name. I need to love my mouth before I say his name, to be fully slippery, so I could talk about Alan Alan commy, I mean obviously feminist, icon queer. Un the list goes on. He's amazing and this is and a

British national treasure. I'm guess scott Scottish Scottish Scottish have a good one, because that's like the best part in the movie when his accent goes away briefly. No, he's Scottish's Scottish. Yeah, but I think he had a British accent. Yea was pretty terrible. It was not good. Yeah, but it turns out because he's a he's a scott Anyways, he's the best part of the Good Wife, which I've seen every episode after that's weird. Shall I do the recap?

Do the recap? Wait? Can we say who's in this movie besides Alan Cumming, certainly because there's a it's a kind of a star star studded roster. It star stud So Josie is Rachel Lee Cook, Rosario Dawson plays I again. This happens on the pot where we don't remember people's names and characters name character name. Her name is a Val Val and then Terror Reid is as her slash uh and also Parker Posey park anything with Parker Posey

and Alan Cumming. H. Yeah, So Josie the Possycats is about a band comprised of those three characters, Josie, Val and Melucts. Yeah. They live in Riverdale and they're just trying to make it. You know. They're doing small gigs. They don't have a following yet they love music. They all lived together and they live in the same trailer. There's a boy named Alan M who Josie big old crush on. Okay, Alan M hot or not not hot? He literally flop thank you. He's a good fashion but

he's got a cute. I don't think anyone's attractive. If I've seen their feet, I understand that. Yeah, Caitlin is every because we've watched Josie and the pussycast together twice now, and she stands out for for Allan M. Every time. She's like, no, he's he's a good dude, Alan M. He's like, he's all bangs. Is very much of that. I mean, he can't even fix his truck. He has to get a woman's help, like that talk one of Caylin's favorite tropes, Woman who fixed the car, just so

much about cars. Allan M's fine, So she begins to back pedal, Ellen M not hot, Ellen M. Good guy not. I'm pretty sure he has a leather bracelet on in Pumpably. I used to wear a sweatband all the time that said I have issues. Oh my god, on sale. I almost feel like you should legally be wearing that still just it's basically it was a medical band. I just didn't know. The font is crazy. There's all there's all

these pictures of me and my grandma. I'm wearing back Price with my fucking things that says I have issues, and my grandma is she has this smile on her face where she's just smiling, but you can also tell she is making fun of me by making me have a photo taken in that moment in time, she's fully attacking me. I look like shit. Listen, I was twelve and I looked like absolute hitch. I have issues. You've got issues. I have issues. Well, so did the Pussycats

because they amazing. Yeah, that was an amazing segue to do this professional. She's wait, wait, Kaylen, have you been in college. Yes. Not only have I been to college, I have been to grad school where I did get a master's degree in screen running from Boston University. I do not like to bring it up, but here we are. Okay. Anyway, So the Pussycats are having issues. You know, they're trying to build a following their talented musicians. They've got great songs,

but no one is listening to them. Meanwhile, there is Alan Cummings character whose name is did I say what? Did I say? No? I did Alan Cumming as himself. Okay, we just took that as a moment to repeat the name. That's all that was happening. To do it every couple of minutes. Sure, I'll die contract thing, especially what it said on the inside of your sweatband. I think she is. Do not resuscitate, just swiss for Alan Cummings. She will

pop out of it. Okay. So Alan Cumming plays this guy named Wyat Frame and he's like helping to run a label called Mega Records and they just got rid

of their front runner band. Sure can we talk about what We'll get to this, but there is top of the movie, Alan coming straight up jumps out of a plane elegantly and this happens because he's sort of like managing this band djor this boy band who's super popular who is Donald's face on Meyer and then another guy Why, which I love because when du comes back at the end of the movie, it's only the guy because it's like, oh,

you couldn't afford the other three from more than One Day. Yeah, they're in a full cat that's not really them, that's gotta be Those are some extras. So Alan Cumming has to jump out of a plane because this boy band starts to figure out something fishy that's going to become the record label. So why it basically crashes the plane they're on. He jumps to safety and now he's on the lookout for a new front runner band to be the most popular, and he finds the Pussycats. So don't

actually could we all do together? How can I say this? Alright, fine, So he discovers the Pussycats without even hearing them play. He offers them a record deal and they're just like, what's all this about? And he's like, it doesn't matter, just sign with us and we'll make you stars. And they're like okay, and then they go, they get makeovers, they start recording some music. There's this ominous machine. It's like this recording device. They're like, what's all this and

he's like, don't worry about it. Meanwhile, we meet Fiona played by Parker Posey, and we learned that the record company that they are running is actually just sort of this way to insert subliminal messages into music to get teenagers to buy a bunch of crap. So there's product placement all over this movie. We did the count. We made a note, so I think there's upwards of eighty products being hawked throughout the course of this movie. It's wild.

Some of them are so like some of my favorite ones are the ones that only come up once of like tidy Cats do five dollars because we'll put you in our movie. Like there is a weird, very small tidy Cats they actually did during that Q and A. They said they did not get paid by any of those brands. Really, a lot of brands didn't want to be involved, Like I think Gap pulled out, Like they had a big Gap thing, like the girls were going to be in a Gap commercial and they had to

pull it. They filmed and everything. Yeah, they got no money for product placement. For that, I think no one would have knew. Yeah, well, because the movie sends a very anti corporate message of like, hey, consumerism is bad, product placement is bad. Caps every Wednesday night. Hey, but speaking of tidy cats, so did you know that cats have eight nipples? This has been cat facts with Caitlin. Oh my god, I need more sentences to start with,

speaking of um new mood. So yeah, this whole record company is basically just a whole scam to insert subliminal messages into music to get teenagers to buy things. And then that's what do your figured out? And that's why they died. But then the great at the end with the Metallica concert joke is so good, Thank god, every day I knew the lyrics to enter stand Man. Every joke in this movie is the best joke ever. So

it's the perfect satire and it's so funny. Meanwhile, so they make the Pussycats these huge stars, except that they changed their name to Josie and the Pussycats. Josie, because she's the lead singer, becomes kind of the front woman of the band and say, you can find a similar story and sorry in my mouth is a little tooluped down, started to drown. Uh. Similar themes are explored in the

Cheetah Girls Extended Universe. Oh I'm not I'm familiar with the Barcelona that's the second one, Chee Cheeta Girls too. Speaking of sequels, Paddington too anyway, Patty Cats. So as the band gets more popular, why it starts to insert these subliminal messages into songs that only she's listening to this because like Val and Mel are starting to realize something's fishy, like something's not quite right here. So they try to break the band apart by getting Josie to

turn on Val and Mel, but it doesn't work. They figured out they figure out this whole subliminal message scam. There's this great, very long climactic sequence at the end where they confront Wyatt and Fiona. There's like a fight that happens there there like happens backstage at a concert that everyone's waiting for. Alan Cumming has a middle part for this entire movie. Yes, okay, that's as you're going to lose up again. Just love my mouth. I can

handle that fact. That was Alan Facts with sponsored by tidy Cat. I also my second favorite product placement in this movie. I think it would be Adville. The climactic scene takes place basically on the floor that's covered in Adville logos. Oh yeah, my my favorite is the McDonald shower. I don't want that. That's a perfect scene. Yes, that's a perfect scene I made, which is crazy because terror Read. Oh my god, yeah, be were of right. Terry Read is the only person in that scene. And terr Read's

character that I hate that character. She's very annoying and I we'll get into it, but I can't stand that character. Anyways. Fan service for Carson Daley, who I say, I've said it before, I'll say it again. Truly the world most mediocre man. Right, couldn't be a more I'm like that is someone's dead with frosted dips. Anyways, So the movie ends with they confront the record company. The Feds come in, they shut them down, even though they were in on

it the whole time. They're like, actually, sublime messaging works much better in movies, and there's great, the best movie ever. And then so they play the concert and Josie and hot L and m get together at the end and everything. I do like that scene at the end because it's so goofy and weird. Like the joke is that they're screaming across the stadium and they can both hear each other and it's so long and they're like, I love you, I love you too. I'm like, no, I don't know

if I okay. Sure, great, So that's the story. Let's talk about the female characters in it, of which there are several. Who who's your favorite perker posey, Oh for sure. Fionna is amazing. Yeah. She has like a real desperation to be popular that I just also relate to in a very sad way, and I think consistently has the best looks for sure, Like she gets the looks. It's she's the best. And she's just like, hey, girls, is a hot gossip, Like she just like wants to hang

out with a bunch of cool girls. She was like the ugly girl in high school, you find out and just one so like I'm popular and hang out with Alan Conard, spend an albino guy that the whole time is that joke insensitive? Probably so seeking your tidy Cats allan coming as an albino man also has a metal part. Speaking of tidy Cats, yes, um, yeah, no, I think that joke is insensitive to people with albinism. I think the joke of Fiona's character having a lisp is also

insensitive to people with lisps. It's not it's not a perfect unfortunately, but also and it's of tidy Cats perfect movie. Okay, that was it. It was spot on. Thank you, nothing but respect anyway, So Fiona, that character is amazing. The

very best moment of my entire life. I was thirteen and at the mall with my mom in a Jay Crew and a random person told me I looked like Perker Posey and I remember, like what the leather gloves next to me looked like like I was just shaking, and I was like, and I don't look like her as the print the best moment. I still think about it when I'm sad. It's my happy place. That crew. Once when I was little, my family went to Martha's vineyard.

We would we can only afford to go for two days every two or three years because it's rich people ship, but we would go. And one time, when I was very young, like five years old, I grabbed onto what I thought was my mom's leg in an ice cream shop and it was Uma Thurman's leg, and she was straight up disgusted with me. Whose poor child is this?

Can it? Can I kill it? Like there it was my We still talk about it sometimes where my dad was like, remember when my adorable daughter touched him with Thurman and she looked like she wanted to kick her, like there did not want a kid touching her by total accident. So anyways, that's my happy moment, violating with Urman's space and being punished. Sure, okay, So Josie and the pussy Cats is a movie about a band of

all women. You don't see that many rock bands that feature even just a single woman, let alone all of the members of the band or women. So that's cool. So yeah, it's it's I mean, this is not a perfect movie. There are some flaws which we'll get to, but as far as the portrayal of women, it's a movie where the female characters are driving the story. They

are flawed. They've got lots of different like there's there's a lot of different types of women, and it's movie not enough different types of and the characterization is it's not the strongest we've ever seen. But terror Read does seem like she learned how to drum though, and for that she talks about she does you and I because I was like, they go out of because you don't see any rachel Leak. I mean, I don't think that it's not her singing, No, it's not her voice. I

didn't know. It's the girl from Letters to Cleo whose name I can't remember. And oh, okay, that makes sense. But also I don't know why I feel like a little bit betray and it's fine. It does ruin a little bit of the magic. Yeah, that it's it was all fake, the whole story with fake, well not the corporate greed that's very real. Cling to that. That was

like I wanted to talk about. On the second viewing of this, I thought it was so just like a weird story point that Josie and Melon val from moment one. Anytime they're talking about the band, they never say like we play music because we love music. They say, we play music that we want a record deal, like they're fucking capitalists from the moment when which was like, I mean, that's just like a choice, but it was it was interesting. I mean, and I think that pays off later when

they're like corporate greed is actually bad. But like for a moment when they not only are very they're like, we want to be famous and we want a record deal, and that is the objective a little more so than the music at first, but they also viewed and they're playing bowling alleys, and they say a few from times that they viewed du Jour as their direct competition. It's like, I'm sorry, you were playing a bowling at like you're

check out. But there's that scene when they're on the airplane and because they're like taking a flight to go and get famous, that's the plane that has all of them, like the target plane or is it the one that has all the phones on the Motorola plane? That one um So in that scene they have this like nice conversation about how we're going to be friends first in

a band. Second, like they're prioritizing so not necessarily prioritizing their music over anything, but like they're prioritizing their friendship over being in a band. So I mean that to me redeems them for maybe being a little bit too capitalist, and the fact I don't even think that that's bad.

I just thought that that's like kind of weird, like not something I noticed at first, because I feel like usually when we're introduced to these stories, it's like, and we just like love playing music so much, and it's about the art. And but for like, I mean, like

iviously they care about the music. But the reason we have that whole like scene at their house is I think we're supposed to understand that they live together and they're broke, and I think that's driving like this capitalist need more so than like the fame aspect, because they don't seem to really care about that. They just want to be able to like not eat raman like they're specifically like eating. They're sharing and they say they're the only people in the history of Riverdale to share a

bus pass. There are all three of them in their bus pass. I just broke. It's more of a commentary on how artists don't get paid who good point taken Wow, the guest. Uh it really overstaying interesting? Interesting choice. Fine, I've been displaced and I quit And actually this is the first time in my life I've ever been wrong. The hard day for me. Um. There's a couple of things I want to mention, things that I did not enjoy way about the movie. One is the trope that

drives me nuts. Where a movie to show that the girl is not like the other girls. She's good at fixing cars. We see it in that stupid Julie Roberts movie about running away from your wedding and Pretty Woman of her Cars. Really, I haven't seen it in a long time. I need to rewatch Pretty Woman, Megan Fox,

Megan Fox and Transformers. Although there's a good case to be made there or whatever there's there's sometimes when it happens, I am totally fine to accept it, like in Titania when that happens, or in Hidden Figures when it happens. But to me, they're like nothing about her skill to being good at fixing cars doesn't pay off at any point in the story, or it just it just feels

intact on to this movie. It's weird and I don't think ever comes back and I feel like that that is like kind of cinematic shorthand for like, she's a guy's girl, can hang and uh, And I think that that's all that we're supposed to take away from that, And it's just because that suns d's Alan M's car and he's like, well, my truck died, you gotta help me fix it. And they're sort of like kind of flirting and bonding during that scene while she's fixing, straight

up playing guitar acoustic guitar, barefoot a car. He's awful. Yeah, And anyone shows up and starts playing the acoustic guitar at me, I'm fully upset at me. You can't just play it near me, You're playing it at me directly. I would love to link in this episode the band camp extension for my ex boyfriend who wrote the full album Your Body Is Dumb after I broke up with them. Never play the guitar around me, I'll scream, I'm sorry. The boy you texted earlier was a drummer, so I listen,

you can do that facet of his personnel. You can drum around me. That's fine, okay. I've never had an issue with drummers. People it's acoustic guitar. No, I had the same guitar ex boyfriend thing. It was like and the kind of the base went home from college, saw him over this summer. Literally asked if while we were like hanging out, just sitting like bias her in a suburban town in Maryland, if he could take out his acoustic guitar and play something. And I was like, I guess, oh,

I'm bone dry. I'm basically a eunuch. If you play that, I've never if you wouldn't make someone less horny than they've ever been in their life. And I would say I'm pretty on a pretty high horny percentile. If the country you're constantly loved, I will say him at all times. But man, if you're considering playing the acoustic guitar, it's you're doing it for you, and it's so clear when

you're doing that. I play my guitar and it's like, no, No, you know who doesn't do that drummers because they would also look crazy, that would I thought, if I just bring my little rupert pad out and I have I have a great track record with drummers. My high school boyfriend was drummer, and you are a clarinetist shout out, yes, it's okay, you can was a clarinetist. Okay, we're clarinet really, that's why I got confused. I was a double read girl. Not to sorry, just the one single reads for me.

We should probably be in a band to clarinets A reality of the pussy Cats, Jamie and the Tidy Cats. It's perfect good clarinet like that kind of physical response my blood pressure just like a wow. Okay, So anyway, more about the movie. Another thing that I didn't necessarily pick up on that much until this sort of watching this movie through the Bechtel cast lens was the fact that the band so Josie, Val and Mel are all really mean to their manager's sister, whose name is Alexandra.

So they have a there's a character named Alexander, he is their band manager, and then his sister played by Missy Pyle, Alexandra, like they do a lot of like body shaming to her. They're like she comes in and they basically call her fat. They're like, oh, did you lose weight or something like that. She's at one point like putting on lip glass and values like, oh that

lip glass won't hinde your mustache, like they're doing. They're like really cruel to her in a way that I don't understand why this is, and it feels really unneeded

and bizarre. It's a very bizarre. But like I would almost to the parade almost rather and I know that this is like Archie Cannon or whatever, but I would almost rather that character not even be there than her be there and only be used for the things that she's used for, because it really is like she there's no consistency with her other than like she hates, like she's like jealous. She doesn't even like work for them.

She's just around and around and mean and like her, she's only driven by and I mean, listen, I can relate to living a life driven by spite. But it just it does doesn't make sense with the story. It's weird. They do like kind of bring it and they're like they said to her, why are you here? And she says I was in the comic books. It's very fourth Wake. But the fact that the way they treat each other, like yeah, but if you're that aware of how you're adapting it, then it's like, do a better job with

that character. Yeah, I mean, there's two thousand one, the body positivity movement wasn't popular yet, so there was lots of body shaming in this movie. And it's I don't know, it's just a glaring thing in an otherwise perfect movie. Um no, yeah, so I it's so easy to insert the trope in a movie of like girls being petty and caddy towards each other. And it really liked me this time around seeing it. I I'm interested in your

thoughts on this late days. Uh. For Vale's character played by Rosario Dawson, I feel like, and it made me think about because she's the only woman of color in this movie, I think, is that true? Well, that's depressing, and I feel like her character is like underdeveloped in

in comparison to the other two in the band. Obviously, Josie is going to be the most characterized, she's the protagonist, but it's I feel like there is a tendency, especially when she's already being presented as a token character like she's you know, she's the only woman of color we see on screen, that the movie kind of like sabotages characters like this. I think it happens in The Craft a lot as well, where the one woman of color.

We see she gets less to do, and mainly what we know about her is that she is supportive of the white people around. Like that's really all we know about that, Like, and she's integral to the plot obviously, but like Terror read like she has a very distinct character and it's like she's ado fist, She's all you know, We're gonna get a forty five minutes scene with her in Carson Dalia and I'm going to love every second

of it. Josie has like very distinct personality trades. Val does not really have that, and I feel like what she mainly has is that she is supportive of the other two. And uh, that's just something that I thought about the characterization there. Yeah, she's definitely robbed in terms

of like having a developed character. Yeah, it does feel a lot like usually if there's a movie with mostly white women and then one woman of color, that character often we know the least about her background, her backstory, her family life, anything like that. We know the least about that, We know the least about her personality. And I think that where a too hazard to guess. I would think that because there are so many white writers

in you know, Hollywood working. I feel like there might be like a feeling of like, oh, well, there's only one person of color in the entire cast. I don't want to fuck it up because but then the result is they just don't really write a character for that person, and that is also not a good result, and that just means that we should have people are writing a

movie exactly. I think that's what Sophia Coppola said when she wrote and directed that Beguiled adaptation, where she's like, I don't know how to I am not a person color, so I don't know how to write character. Yeah, I

didn't know what the Bechdel test was. Who the consequences of that, Like, I understand the hesitancy to misrepresent a character if you do not have that same experience, right, but then like talk to something exactly, it's give someone else work, you know, it's or let that like co write something with someone. If you want to write a movie where some of the characters are people of color, excellent, bring on a co writer, bring out consult with people.

Like it is not hard, I mean, and it's not it's not egregious in Josie and the Pussycats, but it is just like something that I was thinking. She also has the worst makeover. I mean it's like every highlights on a shadow, she's just like, we'll brush your hair for a minute. And I feel like they dress her in outfits that are not flattering to her, which is crazy because it's like, what is not going to hang? Well, she's a babe Rose. Sorry, I know, it's just really bizarre.

She's perfect. That make over scene is speaking of tidy cats. That make over scene is so blue? Why was that was that whole scene shot in like fluorescent lighting? Because there it's so it's that scene makes me laugh because it's blue in a way that most is usually reserved for action movies, right, sci fi kind of stuff, very blue. And then they're they're so uncomfortably improvising through this scene.

Were like at one point, Terror is just like holding a brush and she's like, yeah, you're like throw some cotton balls at each other. It'll be hilarious. Just like interpretation of the Blue was that it was supposed to be kind of like surgical, like they were supposed to be like going through this very like regimented like idea of beauty and marketing and branding to like because it felt very like it does look sterile. Yeah yeah, yeah, everyone's wearing like lab coats and ship Yeah. But it

also maybe one of their key lights broke ye. Maybe they're like, we have all these blue gels, what seemed to use them in I just inherited a bunch of blue gels to my ground, like twenties cents. I'm fat with blue gels right now. We have got to use it. And I also, do you think and do we know, because you know so much about Cannon, were they friends? They don't seem like they ever spent a moment together

outside of the set of Jesse the Pettycats actors. No, they made that very clear during the Q and X incredibly drunk or incredibly something and just kept bringing up like she was like, we haven't really seen each other since then, but that was such an incredible time, just like over It's like that was your time. Oh God, can we just talk about her character for a second, because I mentioned she's just I don't even know what

they're going for. She's very I mean, she's this characters like she loves rainbows and puppies and she you know, just wants everyone to get along. And you know she's got a heart of gold, but she's also just extremely annoying and stupid, and it's like, don't why why write a character like that? I think I've had a Yeah again, I'm not I'm not familiar with the Archie comics, so I don't know how that character is represented in those,

But I don't know. She's just and maybe it's just because it's terror Read bringing that role to life, and I don't necessarily think she's very talented. Wow. Yeah, sorry guys, we're going to go there hot take terror Read maybe not the most talented actor. I am not a feminist icon. Sorry. No. I do think a lot of that is like stories, because when in the comic book world you literally have like this is the dumb friend because you have talk bubbles to work with. It wasn't like really fleshed out.

But I'll always make the argument with that, when you're adapting something, you can take the liberty to change or turn it down a little bit. I mean, I think with the casting choice, they made it clear what they wanted the character to be, not to keep piling on terror Read. Anyways, the scene between her and Carson Daly is great. It should be put in the museum. Carson

Daly is so boring. And in that scene too, this is one of my favorite, Like there's all these cardboard cutouts of like TRL guests and if you watch it you can really spot out. It's like, can't how many predators are in frame right now? A lot of what's that word you use when we talked about the Gride, Oh, stuff that's in the frame. That that's a film degree. Yeah,

I recognize it for my own film degrees. That word speaking of, I also have a film I was wondering when you were going to ask me on send the means on send and the Carson Daily scene is full of what we now know to be sexual. There's no less than for Johnny Depps in that there's a ton of There's a ton of Matt Damon's also, Arie Spears problematic guy. There are a number of like peers of ours comedians. He was on Man TV for a while. There are several he did a Cosby impression that was

like he did Causby impression. Yikes, doesn't talk well at all, of course, and then as a person comedian friends of ours will like post something on Twitter and he will then troll them a lot for like stuff that they've said he's not a good airy spears, Yeah, slide right into our mentions. Spears, Yeah, I dare you. I'm kidding. No, I really don't want any come place, don't, don't, don't, don't talk to us. I just want to quickly talk

about the Alexander character. Their band manager. One, he physically strikes his sister apparently more than once in a day because he kicks her in the shin or something like that, and she's like oh. He's like, oh, I'm sorry that my bad. I was an accident, but that was twice since one day. Huh, so he's like heated lee hitting

her Another weird choice. Why do we see this choice being made of a man physically striking a woman and then later on this guy's a piece of ship because later on they're all in the bathroom after Alan Cumming has been like here have a record deal, and they're like the Starbucks back there in Starbucks and they're like

this is suspicious. This is all happening really fast, and Alexander comes in and he's like, what if you're like having a band meeting, I should be here, and they're like this is the ladies room, which like, why do we have to have separate Russian and two one? Speaking of tidy? You thought I was gonna so And then they're like, we'll get out of here. This is the

ladies room, and he's like, what it is? Nothing I haven't seen before, And then I think val In an attempt to get him to leave, she's like, anyone have changed for a tampon? And he's like, bye, gross, So no comments. He can't, he can't hang. He cannot. He's not just one of the girls. He's not Joe's even bet he's I bet he's probably probably because he's fixing too many cars, something I definitely has to do with

a car. He is fucking the tail type of a car and it's not a damp on insight, No, no tampons. I think if we just saw had you know, if men hung none used hampons around their rooms kind of like dreamcatchers, that would be nice, that would be nice. And then if you wake up and there's a bloody tampon hanging in a man's room, it just means that they had a dream. What I think that like like mobiles that go of our baby's cribs should actually just be dirty, damp on, not dirty. Although maybe, let's why

are we shaming women for bleeding? Free bleed all the time? On your baby? This is a final way of feminism, the last way. It's just like stick it, okay, if we can get back on track the point and I don't, I also might be reaching, but please, the movie isn't making a comment on this, which is you know, not the biggest deal because there's a quick scene and like, that's this is not what this movie is about him

being grossed out by bodily functions. But I feel like we almost never see representation of a man not being grossed out by a woman bleeding, And it would have been a nice opportunity for him to be like I don't care about tampons, and then I don't see it, and I'm just like, you missed an opportunity movie, yeah for him, or maybe you know, maybe win some points back and be like I have a quarter yeah, And I don't think we should have to be paying for

these right? Why are we not giving amazing moment icon? Why are we paying for there's a public health issue there anyways, there's a few oh you mentioned Jamie. The scene when they're recording in the studio for the first time, wind blowing. Where's it coming from? Why do we have to see women's hair blowing around? I think that that was a joke, Like because Cook's hair is going it is like, I want to bear a breeze. It was designed and knowing a breeze would just survive design for

a breeze. Yeah. Yeah, And so it's like I want to hear the recordings of that session because it would all be like, it's just hard. And then terror Reid hitting a symbolic it's a full on. That's like, if that is a joke, it's one of my favorite jokes in the whole time. I think it's I don't know if it's a joke. I feel like if it was a joke, they would have played up the wind more. It's almost a subtle to be a joke. I don't

know either way. He's not known for its subtlety. No, it's not shout in a weird scene when I don't know what to make of this, but you see him like he's giving this instructional, like here's what we do with this company. We trick teenagers into buying a bunch of crap. He's like, we live the most ass kicking country in the world. And then this woman in a bikini like stands by him in like way of the

American flag, which is a joke. But I think that that's commentary because he's wrong, and all we all know that they're they're weird. Money fuck Dungeon is wrong. There's no way around it. I feel like we haven't talked that much about Parker Posey's character. I love female villains. I like that we have a male and a female villain in this movie. Mainly, I feel like, probably just to let Alan coming in, Parker Posey be together, and they're so great together, and it's like can you kiss?

They do? I know they do, and but but it's like not in every scene, and I love My favorite moment is when I think they do like a laugh off in in her creepy bedroom like a villain so good. I love it. Any other two actors, that's the worst scene of all time. It's insufferable. The main thing I want to say about Josie the Pussycats is that it's a It's not a movie that's seeking to dismantle the

patriarchy necessarily it's a fun movie. It doesn't necessarily have an agenda, except it has the like anti corporate, anti capitalist agenda, but that also feels weird in a movie that has so much product placement. Although it makes me feel better that those companies did not pay because like it could have been like really cheap for them to be like, oh, well, yeah, we can just make a bunch of money of this movie. That we're saying is at they did that too, though, it's like taking the

money of these big corporations and making fun. Yeah, that's true. I'm kind of there for that. Yeah, but I think it's they could work either way. Yeah, so that's that's more the agenda of the movie than necessarily be Well,

I don't know, like I totally agree that. It's like it seems like the you know, whatever, the objective of this movie was decided and then you know, other areas were not given as careful consideration as we would help where it's like we basically see of the female characters, especially we see like one body type of across the board. It's a very thin movie. It's a very white movie. It's you know, like there's obviously places where it could

be doing much better and that should be acknowledged. But also it is like such a good money so and it like, God, did you see Alan Comming? Oh, we didn't talk about the most important scene in the movie, which is when Alan Cumming is driving his car sponsored by Ray Band. So he's looking for his new band and I'm already like, oh, Alan Comming is on screen right, and then he almost hits Josie and the Pussycats with his car. And then it's like this moment where Meat

loaves Paradise by the dashboard light. Is meat Love one of the greatest actress of our generation. Sorry, one of the currently one of the worst singers in the entire world. Sorry, And then Alan Comming breaks the fourth wall turns and doesn't he like wink or something. Yeah, he gives like a slide, little like smile. No one does a better.

He should have gotten an oscar just for that. My favorite Alan Coming performance ever is like one second in an HBO commercial where it's like, I don't even know what they pulled from, but I've watched the commercial a lot where there's it's Alan coming on stage. I think it's like a tape live performance and he just goes Broadway, and you're just like, there it is. We don't need to make art anymore or porn, or we can all retire that's beautiful and sexual beings. We can retire Broadway

by speaking of tiny cats. Let's talk about that. Whether or not this movie passes the Bechdel test, I think, yes, yeah, sure it does. I like how we pause, like we've done a lot of movies lately where there's like not even a discussion to be had about it. We're just like, yes, of course it does. They talk about their music a lot in Friendship Friendship, and and there's a lot of female characters, but we didn't really talk about the friendship aspect.

But I do like think that it is great to see female friendship portrayed in a way that is like very supportive and loving throughout because it's you know, like the corporate Alan Cumming and Parker Posey try to drive a wedge into the friendship and they can't because well they do for like a quick moment, right, But I mean that's like with weird science. But it's like, but if there's never there's never a moment, and then like even when there's never a moment, which is not manufactured

by these villains that tears them apart. It's a very strong friendship. Cheetah Girls a little bit different. I have no idea what Cheetah Girls is really the Disney movie. Is it a like Disney original even Simone? Yeah, and the girl who went on to date Rob Kardashian from three and then the other girlfriend three and then the white girl. But is it a Disney Channel movie? Yeah, it is. It is a d com. Okay, that's why I've never seen a single Disney Channel never seen. I

don't think I've ever missed one. I just started my own podcast. Is me watching decom? Would I have to skip Smart House? I'm still scared of it? Are you still scared? Has so much power over them. I think about that House is that it was very smart. By the way, Aristotle was in the corner giggling his little face off. All right, you can take over hosting a Smart House episode. Who is who is the male star of Smart House? Wasn't it this? No? No, it was

a white family. I thought it. I thought it was the boy from Smart Guy for a second now anyway, So yeah, the female friendship. We see a similar thing in like Spice world where they're you know, they're Do you think there would be conflict in a in a band scenario where there's always you know, there's egos, and there's all kinds of stuff that might come between them as a band and as friends. But the only thing that does briefly come between this band, enjosing the Pussycats,

is manufactured by the villains. It's literal brainwashing, brainwashing, and she barely succumbs. She's comes to it, but then she quickly figures out like, hey, like this is weird, and she figures out what's happening. And that's to say that again, the female characters of this movie are driving this story. Sometimes in movies, even if there is a female protagonist, like she doesn't even get to like figure out the big mystery or like even participate in the climax of

her own movie, which is what we saw. And like snow White in The Seven Word or in Aladdin where Jasmine is literally physically thrown out of the screen while the conflict is resolved. Yeah, she's also wearing she's also a sex slape. There's a lot going on. Goods can't wait to sit forward? Are you going to do that? Oh? For sure. For sure that that red bikini. I mean that was a large part of my child as far

as a queer icon any miago iago. So yeah, the female characters in this movie are without question participating in the story, driving this story. Uh, their friendships are solid. It's a fun movie. You know it's you gotta watch it. You gotta watch it. Check it out. It's great to see women being funny and contributing to the comedy of the movie. A lot of times in a comedy, female characters are robbed of any opportunity to be funny. So that's great for this movie. Um, should we write the movie.

Let's write it. Yeah, let's write it. Let's write the movie. On our nipple scale of zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women, I'm gonna give it four because I think the main characters, especially Val and Mel, could have been more fleshed out. Especially Vale, like you said, being the only person of color, she feels a bit sidelined. Her character doesn't feel as developed as the others. And I don't know, you can still, you can have a

dumb character and have that not be so annoying. And maybe this is just my personal thing. But Male's character to me is insufferable, and anytime she's on screen, I'm just like, she doesn't bother me. I like when I hate that, I like, I don't know, and especially like what a boon for terror read to literally play two type exactly and make a lot of money doing that's true. Yeah again, I guess in this episode, I say, you go, girl, I guess it all right, say so. Yeah, the characterization

isn't as great as we would hope. They're also the parts when the women of the band are body shaming Alexandra and vice versa. That's a weird choice. So there's just some kind of weird choices. But overall, I like the message of like the all the anti corporate stuff. I like just the fact that it's a fun movie starring women. You get a woman villain who's a great character. Yeah that's a four nipples, three for each of the members of the band, and the fourth one goes to

Parker Posey cool faye, what say you? I'm gonna go a full five nips on this. It is just like my all time favorite movie, and I know it is a portrayal of women, but I did watch a when I was like eleven and did you feel empowered? I think I don't. I didn't. I think it was so subtly a movie about girls that were friends that only looking back on it now, I'm realizing it's like the only movie I watched when I was like a kid that I was that was about girls that were friends

and in a band. And I think it affected me a lot in a way that wasn't like it wasn't like hit over at ahead with it, which I think is it was a movie ahead of its time for a lot of reasons, I think, And yeah, I totally. I mean, I agree with everything we've been saying about body types, diversity, and like there's a lot of complexities to being a woman that aren't you know, showcase. But I think just for this being a two thousand and one a movie that's literally about a band of girls

that are best friends is like special, pretty cool? Who are you getting your nippies too? Sorry for making eye contact when I said that, I mean I feel like you. I feel like you. Ever, I don't know Ross is in there. I'm gonna get five five straight nipples to Jamie. Thank you. I hope you use them wisely. I'm going to I'm as someone within a regular number of nipples already. Just please use those five and I need spirit tires.

Keep my back pot, keep them in the trunk, keep your nips in the Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna give it three and a half. Guys. I'm sorry. I love this movie so much. It's an unreasonable expectation to be like every movie has to be perfect in every single way. But I just especially because this is a movie that's marketed to young girls, there was there were a lot of missed opportunities that I would have liked to see

capitalized on. But I mean, I don't have anything to add in terms of like you pretty much covered it, but I do love that there was a major film release directed at kids that was about how corporations suck. And it's also so funny. I would argue that any scene Alan comming isn't with anyone does pass the back delt test um. I think we should make good across the board because option for that, I've already made that exception for Alfred Willina. People are flooding my damn, Jamie.

Will you pardon Alfred Molina for for not being able to pass the desk. Does that mean if Alan Coming and Alfred Millina speak to each other in a movie that passes the back of course it does, and they could be talking about their own penises and it would still pass the backdel test if Alan a scene were Alan Coming and Alfred Billina are like they both whip out their dicks and they're like, let's go straight up

care they're measuring. They're measuring a full pass. It's like it's very like just like a nice, calm, peaceful They're like, well, how much is yours instead of like these like normal dick measuring contests where they're like there's there's seuna be gentle motivated by curiosity basically an an s m R video. I hope that happens for you, Jamie. I just want

that out in the world for you. And AMR video of Alan Coming Gena measuring each other's peece we all we all want that, but I really want it for you. That is, I will have to make a cartoon of that. And uh, I have to go to this is my own personal smut stash for just me. Well, uh, we've had a blast, charny wait, I didn't give my nipples to anyway. Yeah, I guess who've given him to tidy Cats. I'm gallant. Oh I'll give to to Alan coming and

one and a half two tidy Cats. Well, speaking of tidy Cats, Faye, thank you so much for being here. What what would you like to plug? Where find good at fayor love on everything? And then, um, I was going to plug. I thought of it while we were doing this that at Junior High. We're in a vent space for women and we're starting a new series of nights. It's gonna be once a month. My friend Derby's hosting.

We came up with like a really clever name that I can't remember, but it's movies that are not only featuring women, but may by women. So we're gonna be screening. I think it's like a trailer and then a short and have whoever made the short? They're like female directors producers, and then um, watch a movie. I think we talked about doing Josie in fact, but because that it was made by a woman team. Yes, yes, yes, this movie was written and directed by Harry Elphont and Deborah Cappie

and they're really cool. But yeah, so just look on Welcome to Junior high dot com. We have a whole calendar that's not up yet, but just keep your eyes out or on Instagram at Welcome to Junior High and um. If you have ideas for similar things, please reach out. Awesome. You can follow the Bechtel Cast on all the social media platforms at Bechtel Cast. You can write and review us on iTunes. That helps us out a lot. What also helps us out is going to our Patreon and subscribing. Yeah,

it's it's great. Give us five dollars in oils. Thank you, Thank you so much. Well. Speaking to tidy cats spy