Hollywood Shuffle with Sam Ike - podcast episode cover

Hollywood Shuffle with Sam Ike

Feb 04, 2021•1 hr 41 min
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Episode description

This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Sam Ike chat about Hollywood Shuffle!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Transcript

Speaker 1

On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante, my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast in which we examine movies. Wow. Okay, so to keep going, Um, we examine movies from an intersectional feminist lens, using the

Bechtel test as a jumping off point. I know what that is, okay, Jamie, I'm going to hand it off to you. Wow. We'd literally sound like we're like on PBS and we're like doing a fundraiser. Um, yeah, I will, I will gladly pick up the mantel here, Thank you so much. The Betel test is media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, that requires that two for our purposes are a little our little flourished, a little spin on it, our little

take on it. Everyone needs a little take on it. Here's ours our version of the Bechdel test requires that two people of a marginalized gender with names by the way, speak to each other about something other than a man for two lines of dialogue. That's our little take on it. Wow. Wow, most movies don't do it a lot simply don't, or or this increasing trend that drives me, you know, just into the ground like a little screw driver, is they do pass the Bechdel test, but they still hate women.

Like now, it's like the whole thing where every director. I feel like most directors have some functioning knowledge of the Bechdel Test at this point, except for Sofia coppola um, which is weird because her movies usually pass, but like she didn't know what it was. But now I feel like a lot of like misogynist directors do know what the Bechtel test is, make sure their movie passes it, but they're like, oh, but still, we're just gonna like brutalize every woman that's on screen. But did she ask

for a like a pudding from her daughter? So it passes? Therefore a feminist film, right, hate it? Hate it? But you know who was the actor? I want to say it was Diane Lane, But before I I'm going to confirm this. Are you about to just fully canceled Diane Lane live on the show My Mom Loves Under the Tuscan Son. You've got to be careful. Oh my gosh, Wow, we should like Jill on the podcast to talk about under the Tuscan. I really can't think of someone more

qualified to talk about under the Tuscan Son. Oh okay, let me just google this and then and if I'm wrong, I'll cut this out and if I'm right, I'll say it is it so thing nice about Diane Lane, or so it's not? Okay, I'm right, Okay, here's what it is, Diane Lane. She accidentally called the Bechtel test the rectal test.

This happened a couple of years ago. She was talking about the Bechtel test and I think generally knew what it was, but didn't know what the what the name of it was, and she called it the Rectel test. Sometimes boomers really show up for you in a way that you didn't expect. Oh, Diane, you know an effort was made, and I respect that. Oh. Knights and Road Dancey. People loved Knights and Road Danthy like she's been in every Mom movie for the past thirty years? Was that

a Nicholas Sparks adaptation? It was? I know that she Fox with d gearing it. Yes, it is a Nicholas Sparks but yes, wow, Richard Gear and Diane Lane funk a lot in movies. This doesn't pass the Bechtel test well, or nor does it pass the Rectel test. So here's okay, here's what happened. Diane Lane was doing an interview with Fanity Fair. She was talking about House of Cards. She's she says, oh, but the show doesn't pass the Recteal test. Right?

Am I saying that? Right? The fact that it was for House of Cards makes it ten times more cursed. On top of that, Oh my god, what she good for her? Yes? Should we talk about today's movie? Yes, I'm so excited. So our guest today a returning guest, a friend of the show. He's a comedian. You remember him from our Men in Black episode. It's sam Ike back. Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. So we're delighted to have you. I love Diane Lane. Oh really, wait,

what's your favorite Diane Lee performance? I would go unfaithful or under the skin soun right? Yeah, Yeah, that's she's fucking Richard gear And that one. She's Richard Garan that one too. Yeah. Yeah, she's sucking a lot in that movie. Yeah, she's fantastic in it. Um she I mean, I don't know if there's a bad there There are movies where Diane Lane is in it and it's not good. But I don't know if there's a bad Diane Lane movie. Okay, sure I do. I feel like generally her starring vehicles

are either really wholesome or like aggressively horny. Yeah. Under the Top Skin Sun is like the best mixture of Unfaithful and Knights and will Dante. It's like the It's the ben Diagram of the Like, what is it that purple? It's the it's like the Yeah, it's like the Georgia of Diane Lane. Oh my god, Okay, I feel I feel a Patreon theme coming on. It turns out there's a lot to say about Diane Lane, more than I realized.

Diane December. Maybe, Yeah, what if we were like, we're not covering not Halloween like a holiday movies this year, We're covering Diane Lane movies. Hey, we're going to run out of holiday movies. Eventually, So we're gonna have to pivot to some howday hope. So, but as long as Vanessa Hudgens keeps, you know, appearing in front of a green screen, they're still gonna be holiday movies. Yeah. Yeah, holiday movies and never going away. They're never going away.

That's one genre. It's like, I think it's like holiday movies and horror movies, those two are never going to go away. I'm fine with it. I'm like, you know what, They're always going to be mostly bad and I'm usually

going to watch them. Yeah, and you really need you need just one location, you know what I mean, as long as you got a place where you can put a fucking tree and somewhere somewhere where you can like you need the woods, right, you need somewhere where you can kill someone in a remote place for a horror movie. And then you need a place where you can have a Christmas tree and you can do a Christmas movie.

It's like a pretty COVID safety friendly genre. Yeah. Oh, one of the best genres are cold That's like, what are real? That's so depressive. So it's like we were talking about this on the on the Patreon A couple of during December where it was some some of the

like low rent holiday movies I watched this year. You can tell they were shot with COVID restrictions because they'll be like like, there will be scenes that take place adjacent to a party, but you never see the party because there's no party like and then you can hear like party dot you know, MP three kind of playing in the background, but it's just two people in a room because it's not safe to have anyone else there. What a time to be alive. Happy belated birthday, Diane Lane.

She just heard this week. Oh wow, incredible Happy Birthday Diane Lane podcast. Now, so let's talk about today's actual movie, which does not start Diane Lane, doesn't It is the movie Hollywood Shuffle. Sam tell us about your relationship with this movie. UM, yeah, okay, so I'm pretty sure it came out the year I was born. And yeah, it starts Robert Townsend, who's one of my like childhood idols kena Everybody AND's co wrote it with um, another one of my childhood idols, And it is one of the

to me personally, it's one of the funniest movies ever made. UM. It's sketches all linked towards this actor named Bobby Taylor and his triumphs and struggles of trying to be a black actor in Hollywood. And it's, um, it's I saw it when I was I don't know, probably in high school, and just because I like I knew I would, I loved in Living Color A Scary movie was like the

funniest thing I've ever seen. At that point, I was like, I don't know, fifteen or whatever, and um, and then I saw this movie and I just I've I've watched it so many times. It's definitely definitely one of the most we watched comedies for me personally. Yeah, I just absolutely love it. It's it's it's just one of those movies that like every joke is just like so it's

so quotable. And it's also just one of those things where it's like I didn't have that many, like all black films that were this funny, you know, there weren't that many black comedies, and this one is just like it's amazing. And it's also the other thing is like how hard it was for Robert Town's to make this movie that and and the whole point of it being so inspiring. It is one of the like I am a mostly cynical person when it comes to those things and films, but like, it is one of those films

that actually did that for me. It's one of the few movies that I actually feel like, I don't know, I hope I guess when you know, Like, yeah, I don't Was that was that too long? We can cut no more? I was beautiful. I was waiting for you guys to be like, oh, now we gotta go to an ad. Uh No, that's great. Um, Jamie, what's your relationship in history with this movie? I've never seen this

movie before. I know, I knew of Robert Townsend because I used to watch reruns of The Parenthood when I was little, So that was primarily how I knew who he was was via Parenthood uh reruns. But I I didn't honestly know that much about like what his background was. And this movie is so fucking good, Like I'm disappointed in myself. I haven't seen it sooner, and it was

so much fun. It's so like the story behind it was really cool, and I feel like, um, you know, if you haven't seen this movie, you should stop the podcast and watch it now. It's on Pluto TV. You have no excuse not to watch it. I watched it on Canopy with my library card or not? Is it Canopy or Hoopla? Maybe I think it was on Hoopla. You've read a book that would that would be better than Pluto TV because it just we were talking about this off my Pluto TV is such a cursed application.

What was your experience with this movie, Kaitlin. I saw it in college as a part of where I did go not once, but twice. I of course hate to bring this up, but in my undergrad education, I was

taking like a film study. These are a film history class, and they were just kind of running through the whole like American film history, and this got shown, I think as a movie because we there was like a section on black exploitation films, and then I think this movie got shown to us because it was like, and here's a response to like the black exploitation movement. So I saw it then and I remember thinking it was super

funny and just like really poignant. But I hadn't watched it since then, so I was excited to revisit it, and I think there's a lot to talk about and I'm excited there was, but there's I usually like I don't know, sometimes when there are sketches and movies, I

get turned off. But it works so perfectly in this movie, Like it's so and all the sketches are so funny, like yeah, yeah, And it's one of those things where it's like, it's interesting now watching it because like every aspect of Hollywood Shuffle was kind of like integrated in different mediums where there wouldn't be a movie like this anymore.

Like there's a podcast about these subjects. There's more sketches on YouTube of this, Like every part of it is like broken out in a different way now where Uh, It's just it's such an interesting time capsule and it's also so fascinating how much of it holds up, you know. Yeah, and not to say there are parts of it that don't hold up there, hold on, we'll talk about them.

I had to. But yeah, it was I love. I mean, it was like I kind of wish I like I had watched this in film school because it literally is like a mini film history, like the funniest version of it. For sure. Should I do the recap, let's do it. We'll go from there. Okay, So we open on Bobby Taylor, who who was played by Robert Townsend, who directed, produced, and co wrote this movie. Oh to like a quadruple threat.

Bobby is an actor who is practicing for an upcoming movie audition, and the role he is auditioning for is Jimmy who It's a little vague exactly who Jimmy is, but he's like a gang leader or like a pimp or something along those lines. I'm sorry, something so funny about listening to you describe that we opened. We opened on Jimmy. He made to be a pimper or dealer. He's some kind of scally wag, becomes slightly British, he's some sort of scally waging on it. I just love

how you so fascinated by who is Jimmy? What is this? What is this story? Fine? Jimmy. We know that he needs revenge, That's what we know that, right, Yeah, Jimmy needs to revenge. I mean, I'm sorry, I don't need but like when we now, I kind of want to talk about Jimmy's revenge as should we wait or do we or do we get into it now? Well, because

it is kind of fascinating it is. I would have liked to have seen the movie that they make within this movie, because it would have been probably the worst movie ever made, Like it would be such a mess, like Jimmy's Like the monologue that Bobby is practicing is like so just like bizarre and repetitive and like obviously extremely racist, and it's just like a mess. Yeah, that's the thing that I don't understand. It's called Jimmy's Revenge. Jimmy's brother dies, Jimmy is already at the scene when

he dies. The guy who killed him is there, is there, so Jimmy is about to attack him. I assume that's what he's talking about the whole time. So how long is this movie? Like he doesn't he get? Like That's what I kept thinking about when when you just brought that up. I was like, wait, yeah, how long. It's Jimmy's Revenge. He's jim You know what I means, Jimmy. Yeah, it's all right, it's happening right there, happening. It's maybe it's a short film. It's it's a it's a seven

minute film. I didn't even connect that. I was like, wow, I should have been thinking harder about Jimmy and what it's called. That's on me because what happens after right, we know we never see so Jimmy is like not the best role, but even so, if Bobby gets this part, it will be a big break in his career. Then we meet Bobby's mom, his grandma, and his little brother. We see a commercial for a TV show about Mr Batty or something like that. It's a show where half man,

half bat lives with a white suburban family. Batty boy, Batty boy, batty boy. Hey, you know you guys should do for your next Patreon You should just do Durant, just fucking just doing descriptions of sketches. Was a bat who's half man, half bat. He was living in the suburbs of Michigan. I love listen to describe all of these. This is great. Now I feel self conscious of no, no, this is this is no. You're you're you're so accurate. You're you know what I mean, You're accurate. It's clear,

it's it's it's great. I'm loving what you're doing. I just never heard anybody actually describe what happens in the sketches in the Hollywood Shuffle before and it's mind blowing to me just to hear a half man, half bad. I mean that's the way he's described in the movie. So yeah, yeah, which isn't even funnier because he's just wearing a costume from my party. That's another thing. What's the background on Battie? Like how why is that family? Like?

How did he get there? Is it a fresh prince of bel Air situation where he's sent over because like like like you know, it's just it's tough for a bat in like l a, So he's gotta go. He got in one little fight and his mom got scared, so we're gonna go send you to live with this white family in Michigan. Yeah, and he's a grown man too. He's like it's not like he's growing up with the kids. You know, he's like a young it's not like a Casper situation. He's like a fully full adult. Yeah. Yeah.

I only bring up Batty Boy because he'll he comes back later. So you know, I have to I have to plant the seed plant to pay off with the boy. There is check offs Batty Boy. Okay. So anyway, so we see that commercial, then we see Bobby call out of work because and he's like, I have to go to the dentist, but it's really so he can go to this audition. Um. Then we see a montage of other black actors auditioning for various roles, but many of them are there for the same role that Bobby is

there for. And then he talks to another actor who comments on how this role of Jimmy is like a white man's stereotype of a black man and how the only roles that Hollywood ever lets them play are slaves

and butlers and things like that. Remember, it's like time to go audition, And then we cut to Bobby having kind of like a day dream fantasy thing, which which is a commercial for Black Acting School, which I think is one of the most famous scenes from this movie, where basically it's a school where white teachers teach black actors how to play criminals, gang leaders, pimps, drug dealers, all manner of roles like that. It's such a great scene.

It's so good. It's so good. And knowing that I didn't know that like Robert Townsend was like a second city guy, and knowing that made it an even better viewing experience. Oh my god, And I love the audition scenes were you've seen all those different actors coming in and when that one, that one like scholarly actor goes in and then that like you're the worst actor. He's like, I could try in an iamic. They would have the

actual gang memories and any pulls out that. I was like like, this is this is it's it's a it's such a great sequence. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to talk all about that because there's like a

lot of really good commentary in that montage that we'll discuss. Um. So then Bobby goes to work at the hot dog stand where he works, and the actor who plays Battie boy A shows up and Bobby is like hey and like a gigantic limousine, and Bobby asks him about acting and how can you tell if a script is good, and Batty boys like, well, if your character doesn't die, then it's a good script. And we're like, oh wow,

the bar is low. Um. Then we see we see seen where Bobby has been playing basketball with his friends, and then they talk about how there needs to be more black film critics, and then we cut to another kind of fantasy day dream of Bobby's about these two black guys who sneak into movies and then review them. And then we see knockoff versions of Amadeus, Indiana Jones,

Dirty Harry, and then a zombie movie. Then Bobby gets a call from his agent saying that the casting directors at the audition really liked him and that he has gotten a callback, but they're looking for an Eddie Murphy type. So then we get another dream sequence where Bobby's at his callback saying that he doesn't want to be Eddie Murphy, he just wants to be himself, but then he can't help but to do an Eddie Murphy impression. And then this is the same year that Robert Townsend directs Raw. Yeah,

so good, are you reading this? I wrote this down and yes, I'm reading it, okay. I was just thinking. I was like, holy shit. It was like I was like, did you you just be watched this like yesterday? Like you recite this whole thing, Sam, I write it down otherwise I will forget everything. Um. Yeah, I read that Eddie Murphy saw Hollywood Shuffle and like demanded that Robert

Townsend direct his stand up special. That's the best. Like and then I didn't know that I don't know, I just like did a deep dive on Robert Townson last night because I'm like, I just know as the guy from the Parenthood um where like when he was like in his early twenties, he was like passed over for a sn L in favor of Eddie Murphy. He just like Eddie Murphy was like haunting his life and then

they became friends. I love that man. Um. Okay, So then we see Bobby quit his job at the hot dog stand, banking on making it as an actor, and then he visits his uncle at a barbershop and he's he expresses some concerns about what if he's not good enough? What if I don't make it as an actor. He goes to his call back and nails it and he gets the part, and he celebrates with his girlfriend. I

think Lydia. Yeah, we're supposed to think she's an important character because she's on the poster for the movie, but but I can't name one thing about her other than she certainly is a girlfriend. Yes, they watch a detective movie with his grandmother who comes in and sits between them, and then we get a sequence of this detective movie that they're watching where Robert Townsend plays like a film

noir detective solving a murder. Then he's about to go in for his first day of shooting this movie, Jimmy's Revenge, which again is a seven minute short film We've decided, and he reads this note from his little brother about how his brother really looks up to Bobby, and then Bobby overhears his grandma talking about how she doesn't want him adding to the negative portrayals of black people in movies, and she thinks he should get a job at the

post office. Then he shows up to set and he hears that the n double a CP is going to pick it the movie because of its racist stereotyp types. So then we see another dream sequence where he's being picketed and then his grandma and his little brother and his girlfriend disown him and then they kill him. If you print that, the kid is so cute, Yes, where are they now? The character's name, I forget his little

brother's Stevie, right, Stevie. Stevie is so cute and funny, A plus child actor truly, So then we're back in reality. He shoots a scene from the movie, but his character is just so reductive and the direction he's getting from the white filmmakers is very racist, and his grandma and little brother are so disappointed in him, and he's disappointed in himself. So Bobby quits and walks off the set.

Then there's another dream sequence where he's imagining himself in all of these awesome movie roles, and then he imagines himself winning an oscar, and then the movie ends with him doing a commercial for the post office saying, you know, if you can't take pride in your work, you can always get a job at the post office. And that's how the movie ends, except for that song at the end,

the song and the right. Then there's a fun like moral of the story song over the credits, and then the movie ends, and before that there's the Hollywood that that credit sequence, they had that song one in a million and it's so good. I love that. I love that song. And they play at the beginning of the movie too. It's oh, it's delightful. Yeah, it's a great soundtrack to bookend a movie. So that's the story. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back to discuss.

And we're back initial all right, and we're gonna take a quick quick commercial break. I always want to always want to say that, Well I'll cut, I'll splice that audio the next time we haven't No I'm doing it, won't it won it won't feel organic, it will we won't feel right. Okay, Well we'll figure we'll figure out a way to make this work. I just want to earn it. I want to I want to have that ability to just be like in the middle of this podcast, we're like, oh, I think that's a good time for

a break. Well, we'll leave this up to you, Sam, So you better not screw it up. Oh man, I'm gonna forget so quickly. It's gonna be like that four or five thing again. Okay, Well, now that we are back thanks to Sam taking the lead. Um So, I mean this movie is just like it's one big string of commentary on the way black people are represented in Hollywood. Like that's very clearly the agenda of this movie, and

that is very clearly what's coming across. So yeah, I kind of just made a list of the different things that we get commentary on. Um So, basically, you guys bought like Google sheets and ship this is I'm telling you, Sam, we write things down simply you guys got mad notes, you bought mad notes. This is y'all real for real.

This is like no lie, this is like wow. Well yet, so there's effective commentary on, obviously, the roles that tend to be only available to black actors, such an especially so this movie came out, this is more true then than it is now. But a lot of these things that get commented on are still current problems in Hollywood

thirty years later. So the rules that tend to only be available for black actors, such as playing slaves, pimps, gang leaders, drug dealers, any kind of criminal really, and just commentary on how damaging that is too black people. There's commentary on the expectation of white filmmakers for black actors to like act more black quote unquote, or to mimic an existing bankable movie star who was black, rather than like, let black act there's just like be themselves

or like figure out their own brand. And there's all that mentioned of Eddie Murphy, of course, and how like they just reference black actors who have already tested well with white audiences and they don't want to stray outside of the black actors that they know test well with white audiences, and then as far as like, when black women are auditioning for these parts, it's like they're always about to be murdered or assaulted, Like there's not even

there's it's it's even worse. There's commentary on light skinned black actors. We see two light skinned black guys at this audition at the beginning of the movie. One of them is saying, how like white casting directors were telling him that he wasn't black enough for the part. The other one is saying, how like they weren't sure if he was black or not, And then he says, how

he uses sunten lotion now and I wasn't. Was the implication that he was like intentionally trying to keep himself as light as possible so that he could pass as white and then therefore get more roles. Was that what was happening there? I think the I think he was trying to say he was trying to come off as like like dark skinn Italian or something like that. Yeah, I got it. I think that's what it was said. I don't know. I didn't fucking bring notes talk like

where are you like? Yo? I I did not bring notes and I feel bad. Don't worry. Oh, my god, no, I liked. I mean it was the colorism came up a bunch throughout this movie. It comes up in the in the Black Acting school sketch as well, Like it comes up all the time. And we we were, I don't know, we were just talking about colorism in our Selena up said a couple of weeks ago. And this is a movie that literally lays out all of those

talking points in the funniest way possible. It also overlaps with like how Latin X actors are stereotyped because they like end up casting I think in Jimmy's Revenge they end up casting light skinned black actors to play Latin X roles and like it just becomes a just a big racist mess, like it's and it's all like laid

out for you in I don't know. I had to like rewind a couple of times because I was like laughing because it's funny, and then I was like, wait a second, they just said something really really important, and then I had to like do a do an intellectual watch after after Yeah, it's the kind of thing of it's just like any minority would do, you know. And that was and that's like that's something that it's still

didn't change at all really in the nineties. You know, it was um in Black Acting school like one of the things that always like strikes me one of the things that's like always so funny with the black acting schools, just like when they have the white actors show the

black actors like how to walk and stuff. Oh yeah, it's like it's just it's just my it's it's one of those things that it's like I'm watching this movie and I think about like what it is now thirty years later, and it's like that's like the equivalent of like when white people are like, oh yeah, you talk white like, you know, Like it's that same kind of

it's that same kind of thing. Yeah, And like you see Bobby like in a bunch of different scenes having to code switch from just like the way he normally talks to the way the white filmmakers want him to talk when he's like acting in the audition or like on set, because they want him to be more of what they think a black person is and how they

think a black person talks. And there's a been a line in the end credit song where one of the white filmmakers says that he learned about black people from TV, and he's sort of using that as like his defense and his excuse. But those racist portrayals influenced his racist portrayals, so you know, you just get this like never ending cycle of negative representation in media because rich white people

are making all of the decisions. Oh and and just the idea of Jimmy himself, like the character of Jimmy, like this this podcast is mostly gonna be about Jimmy's revenge. We should just title this Jimmy. Uh. But like Jimmy's Revenge.

It's like he he brings to it in the audition such a ridiculous like stereotype because he knows that's what would appease them, because like Jimmy in and of itself, if you just like me, it's like, oh, yeah, this could have been like a tough guy, but they like purposely want this like foolish, you know, buffoon, And it's like, yeah, that's that's a part that's like always got to me, definitely.

And there's commentary in this movie as well on black actors resenting these like racist stereotypical roles that they are presented with and not wanting to play them, but having to do it anyway because they need work, they need to be able to support themselves, and those are the only roles available to them, so they can't turn them down,

even though they're so regressive and reductive. Like that actor who was like who keeps going to Bobby and being like, I can't believe that someone would do this part, and and he's like, I'm going and then he takes it because right, yeah, And I like, doesn't he it's him who comes back at the end, right, and he goes that he's just like clearly resentful that Bobby has gotten the part, but trying to like high grounded, he's like, yeah, I don't know if I would have taken on such

an offensive role, but you know, but he's there in the same movie doing a smaller role, which which to me is like the equivalent of like people like commenting on a tweet, you know what I mean. It's like, Oh, I have this moral superiority, but yet I'm going to engage in like the same behavior, you know, like, yeah, it's real blue check behavior. He's just playing there. Yeah.

I think that the way that this movie kind of lays out just the predicament that Bobby and all of these black actors are in is like even with how they're received by the black community, Like it's like you just can't win because it's like, Okay, if you want to be an actor, there are only these offensive roles available. So the option is to either quit what you're passionate

about or play the game. And then now like your grandma doesn't respect you and like that like that is so I don't know, like I've never seen that laid out so well, yeah, I I completely agree, but I think you're also forgetting about the third option, which is to be the best actor in a post office commercial. And that's always like the third option is you can be flow the progressive lady of the US Postal Service, and if you could, if you could get that, I mean,

it's kind of the best of both worlds. So like, let's always remember the third option. It's always on the table. Yes, that is that is the hero's journey here. I like to think that's the only commercial you ever does too, and it just makes bank, you know what I mean. I mean it's like the residuals had to have been sweet on that and it was timeless. It wasn't a dated looking commercial. Anytime I hear about people being in commercials, I'm like, holy ship, Like it's ridiculous money. I hope

that he bought a house with his postal service commercial. Yeah, because you know how federally funded the United States Post Office is just paying millions of dollars to advertise all the time. Hey sent any mail lately. I love it. People need stamps and they don't know where to go. This is a this is a great time for that. If you're looking for stamps in your town hall, but you don't know where to go in the middle of your place of business, you can always go to the

post office. Well, Sam a ringing endorsement of the United States post you can cut that. You're gonna cut. No, I'm keeping you. I'm cutting it. Also, the post Office is having a bit of a moment right now, so people about the post Office. I've seen people in post office crop tops. I'm like, what is going on? I

bought so much post office merch pre election. It was, but I want to talk about I think like the real third option here, which is to do what Robert Townsend did, which is he like wrote this movie, co wrote this movie, directed it, produced it, funded it himself.

It only had a one dollar budget. The movie made five million at the box office, which you know isn't a lot of money, but comparatively for the small budget it was on, it was like considered a big success, and then he got an amazing career out of it. He was like directing Eddie Murphy Specials by the end of that calendar year. Like that's so, it's yeah, and I wanted to I found an article Vanity Fair. Yes.

I love when we find the same both finding the one article that, yeah, your note You guys take so many notes that your notes come together, like that's your notes a symbiotic. It's like venom and Tom Hardy. Wow. I was not expecting you to use that reference me either. You think you think you think I came in were with notes? Non man, I'm I'm straight up improvn And that's the best I could come up with a venom reference. Incredible.

I did not pre plan of a venom reference. That's the new Like that's like the new Yin and Yang. It's just oh, we have fun. But yeah, that that Vanity Fair pieces great. Yes, says I wanted to read a little bit from it, just to give a little bit of background on Robert Townsend and sort of like how this movie came together. So the article is entitled thirty years later, the searing critiques of Hollywood Shuffle still sting.

H quote Townsend was in experience. He didn't go to film school and hadn't directed a short film, so he had not directed Um Jimmy's Revenge before UM, but he's still snuck it in there. It's like, mank uh. He didn't go to film school and hadn't directed a short film, but determined to tell a story about being marginalized by the industry. In four he had a small role in the Oscar nominated a Soldiers Story. I told my agent, I want to do more movies like this, Townsend tells

Vanity Fair. My agent was like, Robert, they only do one black movie a year. You just did it. Be happy. But Townsend wasn't happy. So he talked to a friend, Waynes, whom he met at the Improv in New York. I thought my dream of being an artist was dying because at the time the only roles Keenan and I were auditioning for were slaves and pimps and stereotypes of basketball players who couldn't read towns and said it was all

the negative stuff. And then Keenan and I started talking, and I was like, we should do a movie about our lives. That's how it started. And then they wrote the script together without any studio backing, though Townsend was faced with financing the film on his own. Uh he says, quote, the idea of somebody writing, directing, and producing and starring in a movie, especially a person of color, wasn't heard of.

Everybody said the bar was so high you couldn't get in if you didn't have millions and millions of dollars. And then he eventually raised a hundred thousand dollars to make Shuffle, using money he earned from acting gigs as well as credit cards and quote, so the rest is hi, Yeah, I love this story of how this movie was made.

And then it actually, I mean it's it is kind of like that thing that we talked about on the show pretty frequently, is Hollywood refusing to make a movie that audiences clearly want to see because once it is made, like against all odds, it does super well, and like this made back its budget fifty times, like it launched the career of a few different people, and like it it's always so frustrating, like when you're like why why wouldn't you just make a movie with a black autour,

Like why why? And it's that like van Go thing of like, you know, Townsend never really got the credit for this movie, and yet it's like it's such a cornerstone of like so much that comes after it, you know, and uh, it's it's it's really amazing thinking of like how much stuff has been made and it's like, oh, this is this seems like a thing from Hollywood Shuffle, and how many careers were made from it. Yeah, it's

it's really like amazing. Then when you look at Townsend's career after this movie, it's like he for the most part, doesn't make he doesn't make a movie like anything that he actually lampooned in Hollywood Shuffle. And that's one of the most amazing things about his career is like he kind of stuck to for better for worse. He's stuck to the Hollywood Shuffle like he you know, he makes like a bio film, he makes a family sitcom, a

black superhero movie. You know. It's it's like it's kind of like it's kind of remarkable that he actually like still stuck to those principles. I guess, yeah, he's a

man of integrity. I love. I'm like, oh, he's great. Uh. And then and and I guess just going off as as amazing as it is that he was able to make this movie the way he was, it is like it's both inspiring and kind of like it's because we've heard this story of like marginalized filmmakers having to like jump through all sorts of hoops financially and production wise in order to get their first movie made. And then you hear other stories of like Wes Anderson was just

handed ten million dollars. I couldn't even write on paper, and they said this boy, I like, I like the cut of his jib, and he seems like he'll come up, he'll come up with something. And meanwhile there's like these you know, and it's like whatever, that's no shade os Anderson.

He figured it out eventually, but like, you know, it just just the disparity and like who is handed money even though they're not even qualified and like amazing artists with like a really clear perspective, like Robert Townsend and I'm also thinking of like Jeff Barnaby, like his story of making rhymes for young girls or a woman walks

home alone at night. I got the title wrong, but like all of these like really amazing movies with the are just different, like the the climb to get it released and like made the way the director wants is so steep, and meanwhile we're just handing west Understand a blank check and being like you'll figure it out, twenty

two year old, like good luck. It's infuriating. There's even some commentary similar to that in Hollywood Shuffle where there's a scene where towards the end, Bobby is like observing white actors in the studio that he's in. Basically it's just like, yeah, white actors are given the freedom to take on roles that aren't these racist stereotypes obviously, like

they can audition for a wider scope of parts. And because you see him watching like two white actors rehearse the scene where they're like professing their love for each other, and then he sees another white action star who's like making demands of the script, and then like the white producers are like acquiescing to his demands for the most part. So hey, I was just thinking, Man, I would love to see Wes Anderson direct a remake of Hollywood Shuffle.

That would be so amazing. All the parts would be played by Ralph Fines and fucking perfectly symmetrical. Reimagine everyone's the same movie and it was all black actors, but they were all wearing both ties, like same cast, and then there's just like so much headroom above every the actors and every shot. Oh my god, I like, I know that Wes Anderson is a competent filmmaker. I just get exhausted even thinking about watching one of his movies. It's just there's just too much. It's too much. I

like Moonrise Kingdom a lot. I like that one. I still seen that. I like that one a lot. I didn't see the I didn't see the dog one. Oh I love dogs. I did not like I love dogs really at all, like that one. I think it's funny that it's called I Love Dogs. It took me forever to figure out that it's just called I Love Dogs. Oh me too, I didn't know Marley and Me was was about a dog. Oh yeah, isn't that dog dog dies?

I thought spoilers Marley. I thought it was like a Julia and Julia thing with Bob Marley, Like, wow, Sam, you have to write that script just a Adam, just just being like, I love Weed. The exact same set up is Julian exact same movie. Hey Sam, this would be a really interesting time to take an ad break, just in case. Hey guys, you know what, this conversation is great, but you know it's even better what ads we should take. We're gonna take a quick commercial break

and movie right back, folks. Incredible, it is this going? Okay, I'm sorry, I'm having an absolute ball. I just feel like I just I just feel like your listeners are gonna be like, what the what the hell? They let the guy do the ads now? Only only for you. We we make the exception for you and you alone, Sam.

Only only friends can tossed a brick. Also, well, I'm surprised we have not brought this up yet, but the episode that we did with you a few years ago now was a live episode that we recorded in Boston, And because it was in Boston, Jamie's mom was there, and Jamie's mom that fateful meeting. For anyone who remembers this on the Men in Black episode was aggressively hitting on Sam during the show loudly. It was sparks were

flying in the middle of our podcast. Also the room that that was like the the smaller theater at Improv Boston. Like you can't overstate how physically close the audience is to you. Like so my mom could have just reached out and like held your hands. Yes, yes, it should have happened, honestly, I mean it's still can't It's still what's stopping you. It's never too late, honestly, no doubt. Like I added your mom on Facebook, immediately act and show it's still it's not It's not too late. My mom,

just bring over a Diane Lane DVD. Is Yeah, I got that. I got that Diane Lane DVD. Uh Candle what oh was it an Taylor and Aunt Taylor Candle. That's what I'm going to bring. Yeah, she'll she will be disarmed, she won't know what She'll be like, I've only ever seen this in a Diane Lane movie before. I can't believe it's happening. I mean, honestly, for me, all I mean, you know, like you know, all joking aside. I just I really think your Mom's like just just

just a great just a great woman. And you know, I think it's amazing how she just raised such a loving and caring family. And uh, you know, and if she's listening, like you know, my damn's are open, Jill, you hear that, Jill, M this man, don't blow this. I'm very attached to the idea of Sam becoming my dad, so it would be huge for me. So am I?

So am I. Well, here's okay, here's where I would like to get into some of the more criticism of this movie, because while there is a lot of very effective commentary in the movie, there are some parts that, um, just the movie kind of fails to touch on. Uh, And I'm talking mostly about how black women are largely

left out of this commentary. Yeah, black women are not entirely absent, because there are different moments where some of the black actors who are women are talking about how they are usually only cast in like sex worker roles or or just straight up murder victim roles. Right, Yeah, it's like that. Yeah. One of the things that stuck out to me was like, I feel like we're led to believe that women are more involved in this movie

than they are. Like the marketing of this movie. Um Anne Marie Johnson who plays uh Bobby's girlfriend Lydia, like she's on the poster and then you're like, oh, so this is like she's going to be involved, but she's kind of she we don't. I mean, I couldn't tell you a thing about this character that isn't She's Bobby's girlfriend. There's friend, here's girlfriend, which sucks because it's like the performances really know there's I didn't mean to cut you

off with that. That's like Ron Berman. No, that was me quoting ourselves on this very podcast for a long running joke, which you'd know if you'd ever listen, sam Well, I I listened. I listened every episode. I get ten mints in. I'm like, no Ron Perlman reference. I do that with every single podcast. That's why that's why I didn't get in into Cereal. I'm getting really into the Ron Perlman Beauty and the Beast series. We talked about it on the past episode, but I just kind of

kept watching it. But yeah, like Emery Johnson, who like goes on to have like a pretty great career, she was like on in Living Color, that's where I realized that I recognized her from in the middle of watching this movie. Um, but it's there's so many opportunities for Lydia in this movie that I feel like you're all kind of dropped in and we mostly see her in like either she's being supportive towards Bobby, which is great,

but like that's kind of it. Or you see her in like a fantasy that Bobby is having about her, not fantasy, like a nightmare sequence where she all of a sudden isn't supportive of him. But that is really the only two modes we see her, and it's like supporting my boyfriend or not supporting my boyfriend. You know

where she works. That's it. That's it. And I mean, not only could we just have seen more of her, there was just there's just so much room for commentary on the way black women are represented in Hollywood, and they're just really isn't much in the way of that

commentary at all. There's another moment where in the audition scene towards the beginning of the movie, there are two women who were talking to each other about one of them had been invited over to a movie director's house at midnight, and instead of there being any kind of commentary on how women and particularly women of color are exploited by powerful people in the entertainment industry, instead of that, a joke has made about how the woman was like, of course I went to his house and I was

one minute early. T he so just like there were opportunities feminists, all right. I was rewatching this movie this morning and I was like, Yo, that's gonna be a Bechdel cast. Note. I was like, yeah, they're going to mention down the Beachdel cast. Were you right? It's true that because it's like there was like a moment in the movie where like Robert Townsend is beyond qualified to be making all of these like he's making a ton

of amazing points in the same scene. And then yeah, it's like they're kind of a misogynist joke that like implies that like, oh, you know, these actors, you know they get it, they don't they don't mind having to like have sex with these nasty directors in order to get work. And that was and then the only other woman you see preparing and that sequence is flailing around

because she's going to be a murder victim. Um so yeah, just most of the meaningful commentary in this movie about black representation in Hollywood is about black men specifically, and again in this movie, black women are largely left out of the conversation, which is because they are like, as we were kind of talking about, it's like the struggles that black women face in the industry are compounded with

misogyny on top of everything. So there's yeah, I was, and I think like another thing that makes it always like so tough, as like in in this film, there's also this like idea in the in this time period where a black woman's like the best thing she could be was a great mom or a great grandma, you know, and a lot of those movies and in those films, and it's like and that was like, that's like one of those things was like, it was like the importance

of black motherhood is shown, like is very important in a lot of things that that Robert Townsen does, and it's and it's also seen in this movie. But it was the it's the fact that there's nothing beyond that, you know, which is always like, which is the disappointing factor. Definitely, I almost wish I was I wish that his girlfriend was like also an actor or something like, she could have been like included in the story that way where it's like, oh, here's a person we already know played

by an amazing comic actress. And and then like you know, ask literally and Marie Johnson. When you're writing this movie Getty, it's always that thing of just like, oh, if you don't you know, fully know what are the specific struggles that black female actors face, just ask your friend, Like, she's right there for it. She's literally right there, she's

on she's hanging out on the poster of your movie. Um, but yeah, that's a great like if if she had also been like a struggling actor auditioning four roles that were largely racist stereotypes, like that could have opened up all those opportunities for much needed commentary on that very topic.

But it would have just like made their relationship a little more interesting too, because all we know is like they're dating, they love they love each other, which is like great, but like they would be cool if they had like that, like they bonded over this like shared frustration and struggle as well. Yeah, I just wish that there was more of Emory Johnson in this movie. Because in the middle I was like, wait a second, she's

like super fucking talented. I wish she was more. I did, like I guess that, yeah, the mother figures the mother, and then particularly the grandmother who what what show is she on? She's on Good Times another show I watched. I watched a lot of Niked Knight as a child then. But I liked that Bobby's grandmother was kind of like she kind of ended up being the only person who, you know, saw what was going on and said it,

which I thought was kind of cool. I just wish that there was like more, I don't know, more more of her. Yeah. In fact, for the first like fifty or so minutes of the movie, I was like, oh, I guess we're just going to meet the grandmother and

then she's never gonna come back into the story. But then she does, and she plays a pretty significant role in sort of inspiring Bobby to like walk off this set and quit this movie, because in this world, you bring your entire family to shoot a movie with you. That was the other thing. I was like, Wow, he just brought literally everyone he knows to the same including his child brother, and they would film in the whole movie. In that one day, it's like a guy, damn play

the heart. Do you think of it? About it? The lass Jimmy's Revenge makes sense? But yeah, so I like that the grandmother character becomes important and a lot of what she says is like, again, part of this important

commentary that's happening in the movie. And then there's even like a nice conversation between her and Bobby's mom where she's saying, like, I don't want a grandson of mine to be adding to all this negative imagery of black people in media, and his mom is like, yes, everything you're saying is right, but also it's work, like he need needs to work and if this is has chosen line of work, like he's got to do what's available

to him. And so there's like that, you know, the push and pull of do I take a horribly racist role or do I, you know, like by by my principles, which means never getting work and never making money. So it's like this whole the just a tug of war

kind of thing with your own conscience. But um yeah, like we said, there's we get introduced to the grandmother at the very beginning, and then she's pretty much absent from the story until the last like twenty minutes or so, right, And I liked I mean, I liked that conversation that his mother and grandmother we're having, Like that is I feel like that's like that conversation they're having is at the core of the movie, and like clearly he like

really values their respect and like doesn't want to disappoint them, and they're kind of at the core of like the kind of like the back in for it that he's experiencing of like does he take this role or not? But yeah, but they're just barely there. I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I mean it is. It is one of those things where it's like, I I wish there was definitely more in that because that that central theme of the movie comes down to two black women talking and it's like

I wish there was more of a lead up to it. Yeah, Yeah, that that was like that, and then the the unchecked homophobia that came up at a few points in this movie were certainly very Yeah, but yeah, I don't know, it's that was I mean, how the how the female characters are kind of sidelined was like really the main thing that bummed me out about this movie, because otherwise it's like saying so much that no movie ever does and saying it that is so like still unfortunately like

super relevant. Yeah, and it's like, you know, black black women deserve to be a part of that conversation. And there's just as much, if not you know, even more like comedic stuff to draw on, but it's just not

what this movie is doing. Yeah, I guess that like the most the one of the biggest bummers of it is like that's the that's the most that a lot of the black actress, the three black actress in this movie got to do other than the stereotypes in the movie like that year Like that's also like just such a such such a stark thing. Is like they don't really do a whole lot in necessarily this movie. But it's and it's still not it's at least not the thing that they're lamp wounding in it. And it's like

still like such a mind warp of just like awfulness. Yeah, wait, I'm this is I'm looking at Amory Johnson's IMDb and I'm realizing I've seen her in so much stuff, including she was an iconic role on That's so raven. She played Donna Cabana on That's So Raven all my thoughts So Raven heads, you'll know who I'm talking about. Wow. Huge, she was in Boomerang. I remember that. Oh yeah, Wow, that makes me so happy. I'm googling Donna Cabana because she had the best outfits. Anyways, Um, shout out to

Donna Cabana. Um, it's saying it over and over. It gets I wish I knew what that was she save. I also did not watch She's wait. I want to make sure I'm getting her character description right. I'm pretty sure she Yeah, she's like a famous fashion designer in the world of That's So Raven. She's like Raven's hero. She looks up to Donna Cabana and she wants to be just like Donna Cabana. And then she meets Donna Cabana and guess what. Donna Cabana is a bit of

a wacky character my Disney channel. Um, so you know it's written. Uh, it's co written with Keenan, Ivory Waynes and Robert Townsend. Directed by Robert Townsend. It's produced by Robert Townsend. And there is a woman in the mix here. Um, there is a female Latin X producer named Lydia Nicole who has gone by Lydia Fernandez at different times in her career. But I did not like I once I saw pictures of her. She was in a bunch of she's like a child actor who kind of became a producer.

And now UM is in charge of a nonprofit called Common Sense Media and like advocates for representation in media. But this was like her first producing gig. She was previously in another movie we talked about recently, Stand and Deliver, the classic. I think she was one of the students in Stand and Deliver. I'm not I'm not exactly sure, but and she kind of pivoted into UM producing and

backing projects that she believed in. She started doing stand up in her late twenties and like started all these like women of color comedy showcases in l A and like, I don't know, I just got rules. I enjoyed learning about her and she she started UM. After that, she she collaborated with Robert Townsend. I think a few more times. She's like a producer on a bunch of his projects

and UM and their buds. So I just wanted to give her her a shout out, because it's always I mean, especially in the late eighties, there's like barely any women high up in any Hollywood project, and so I'm glad that she she like had a seat at the table there. Yeah, that's awesome. Shout out Lydia, shout out. I wonder if the character in this movie Lydia was named after her? I wow, makes I did not. I did all that research and did not make that connect. Yeah, yeah, see that.

See that. That's that symbiotic relationship. You guys, your notes fit into each other's notes. We need each other to connect the dots. Sometimes, yeah, you're mad mad Venom vibes here. Sometimes I listened to the themes that Eminem theme song from Venom when I just need a good laugh because it's so funny. WHOA, I didn't know that was a thing.

Oh my god. It's just like him who knows what he's thinking for must but then he goes just Venom, but like just he just screams Venom, and you're just like, this is such a disaster. It's it's the funniest song in the world. I forgot all about that song. And yeah, the best part of Venom laid in the movie. Yeah, as if that movie could couldn't get any more like bash you over the head with when it's about Eminem starts screaming Venom in the middle like it is wild.

That's great. That's also the most San Francisco movie. That's like that year. It's like that movie and Last black Man in San Francisco were like I was like, wow that it was like that was part of the San Francisco come up. San Francisco representation at an all time high. You had Sorry to Bother You, Last black Man, San Francisco, and Venom like they all came out like within a year. I was like, yo, mad, San Francisco movies all very similar. Wow.

I was just gonna do a quick shout out. I mean, I don't really have like much to note in terms of his character, but always love to see John Witherspoon. Oh yes, John Willispoon so good the he's his boss at the hot dog stand, Dinky Dog. I was curious. I was like when I saw that, I'm like, I wonder how like because they're like uniform in the aesthetic is similar to Good Burger, and I'm like, I wonder if Good Burger is pulling from the Hollywood Shuffle asthetic.

It's the it's the expanding universe. Yeah, Jamie, I think it's crucial that we cover Good Burger on the Bendel Cast. Absolutely. In my in my notes, I wrote, like, am I reaching dog looks? I don't think so. I Good Burger was my favorite movie. I don't know what year it came out, but whatever year it came out, that was my favorite movie of that year. Yeah. Well that I was like, I was like, Titanic was my favorite if it is ninety seven, obviously Titanic is my favorite movie

of ninety seven. I would love to see, like you, at like ten years old, what your top Tenny, You're like like, You're like, yo, it's it's Titanic, it's good Burger, Good Burger. And I found as good as he gets. I found it tart a bit derivative for me. Yeah, that was the word. I was saying that tarts a flavor, right, I think movies can be tarted. I haven't revisited Good Burger in so long. Oh my god, I got my little Good Burger. Antenna went up because they have the

same like hats. I'm like, maybe that's just what hats looked like at fast food restaurants in the eighties and nineties. I don't know, I think don't remember. Even so, even so, good Burger is important for us to talk about. Speaking of Winky Dinky Dogs, another thing that I didn't love to see, obviously was Bobby constantly fat shames one of his co workers at Winky Dinky Dogs and another just like of the time, still a problem him in Hollywood.

Not good. Another thing I wanted to Sam, you brought this up, but I wanted to just say a little bit more about it as far as another piece of commentary that the movie does in terms of um black actors with really impressive credentials being forced into again just the reductive roles that are available to them. Because there's that scene where like that guy's like, I just I got my degree at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, and then he goes on to try to audition for

this role. He doesn't do a good job, and then he's like, wait a minute, I can do it in I ambic pentameter u. Yeah. Yeah. I always I always think of as a class thing, Like I always think of him as like this this like up pitty like Ivy League guy, and he's like, oh no, you can't even you can't. You know you you were so removed from from what's like really going on to be able to do it, and and then to have the audacity to be like, oh yeah, I can do it. It's

like my favorite thing I was. It's very it's so funny. I was reading it as how so many black actors will have like or just like performance artists in general, they'll have gone to like Juilliard or like, you know, some really well regarded school. They'll have an impressive educational background.

They'll have had to put in so much more work than their white peers, but you know, have access to way fewer opportunities to showcase their hard work and their talent, which seems very pulled from like Robert Townson's own life too, because he's like extremely well trained. He like went through all every second city course on the planet. He was like a part of a theater company in New York.

Like he like put in the hours and like, yeah, those scenes especially, I feel like the movie is like at its strongest when he's like pulling from his like personal experience, and like the same for Keen and Ivory wins because it's like, yeah, he went to school for this for fucking years and years and years. You know. I forgot to mention this when we were talking abou winky Dinky dogs might go on perfect beginning to a sentence.

I just love when he's like, when we see that the minimum wage has only gone up five dollars in thirty two and thirty two or thirty three years. Yeah, I was like, holy shit, because because Keena's like I was making two fifty, I'm making to sixty five. Yeah. Yeah, man, I don't know what adjusted for inflation that even is, but like, damn, just not criminal how little we pay. Um. I went in to kittlee do you reference this at the beginning? I have some some notes on it that

how this movie was received at the time of its release. Um, so it's kind of I didn't notice that there were a few lukewarm reviews based on kind of the stuff we were talking about, where like some reviewers kind of knocked Townsend for not addressing or just kind of making light of the struggle of black female actors and also of queer people, and like, there were certainly points lost, mostly from female reviewers, from that, but it's generally really

well reviewed when it comes out. Ebert gave it three stars, which I mean, he's only got thumps, he's only got two thumbs, but he's got three stars from and he does I guess. I guess he does three out of four stars. So if you're thinking of five, like so he gave, he said it was an artistic compromise, but a gistical triumph, announcing the arrival of a new talent

whose next movie should really be something. And it's like, shut up, but like you sounded just you sounded just like Durantula when you said it's like people people liked it, and it was it did really well, and it seems like, um yeah, everyone was like, oh wow, like here's this like new oh tour and so so that I found that, I honestly like, you just never know with especially in like the late eighties, where it's like there's next to no one in the film reviewing community that is not

an old white guy that like is really trying to be Roger Ebert. So I think there's worth noting though that, at least on the Rotten Tomatoes count, this movie was only reviewed by critics versus major blockbuster wide release movies that will get hundreds of reviews. So this is the type of movie like it could have been elevated had more critics reviewed it and reviewed it positively and like

that would have encouraged more people to see it. And in fact, I'm curious, So listeners, tell us how familiar you are with this movie, because this movie, I think it's kind of it's like off the beaten path for a lot of audiences. Like it's not a super well known movie, and I knew next to nothing about it before we started prepping for this episode. Yeah, I feel like most people I know very few people who have

heard of it. It's always like it's always either someone has seen it and loved it or has never even heard of it, right, Like I I've never met someone who's been like, oh I heard of it. I I've always want to sit, you know. I never like yeah, Like it's that kind of movie. Is like people who would be into it have like definitely seen it, you know, or they're like, wow, I can't believe I didn't see it.

You know. It's like it reminds your nights silver were nanty Is that how you say nights of Rodancy, Like, is Rodanty a person or a place? Um, we don't know. I think it's a small village in Italy. That's probably a safe bet. I was hoping you both were going to be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard of it. No, here's what's really embarrassing. I've seen Nights in Rodanthy Knights of Rodanthy. I don't know what preposition it is. I've seen that movie. I have no idea what Rodanthy is.

I can't I don't remember that movie evening. You ever see that? It's like Vanessa Redgrave and like Patrick Wilson and um, well, uh what's his name? From Center Beauty There in a Beauty Beauty Seat, the one with Billy crut Up where he's like Claire Danes and our needs and uh, I don't know why that was the movie, The way that you got to Claire Danes, that that was some more Tom Hardy venom bro Dancy is a

tiny village. Yeah, hell you nailed it. Hell yeah yeah, you guys say you guys thought I didn't bring fucking notes. I brought notes. I brought notes to the backtel you know what I mean? We Um, does anyone have any other thoughts on Hollywood Shuffle. Oh, yeah, we would talking about That's one of my favorite movies. We should do we should do a podcast episode about it. Oh, I think that might be a good idea. Oh, I just wanted.

I just want to say, Um, my favorite part in Hollywood Shuffle has always been the movie critics uh segment. It's just my absolute favorite. I it's just jokes on tops of jokes. I I love it so much. There is I don't want to see Attack of the Street Pimps, and I think it's it's bad everything about it. It's it's very existence is bad for society. But god damn,

that's hilarious. That scene. It's just so fucking funny. When they're because like they reviewed these and when they do the amadas and he's like I used to say, so my friends, just like man, I adn't go to see any bullshit I can't pronounce, Like, how are you gonna be like even like I'm gonna see i'm a i'm a what I can't stell laughing. And then when they do the Dirty Harry because I always I never liked Dirty Harry. And when they did the Dirty Larry and

that whole Dirty Larry sequence. I think it's like one of the funniest things ever ever seen, Like when when he's like when they're talking about the guns, and then and then they're like, yo, you think you're gonna have a fucking conversation right now? Like I just I just

love this movie. Man. Yeah. That was. And at the end of the Attack of the Street Pimps review, they eat like they were like, it was full of stereotypes, but we thought the direction was brilliant when they're like, Yo, that guy looks just like the dude from down the street. Crack up so much. I really like that. This is a very like specific joke that people don't make opted

because it's a weird joke to make often. But at the end of the movie reviewing segment, they give up a high five and they do like a light slab they go like, which always makes me laugh so much when someone does a bunch of tepid high fives in a row. Hadn't seen it in a while. I was laughing. I can't remember if I'm gonna get you sucker came out before this. I think it came out right after. I think right after right, So this was Damon Wayans

debut on screen. I think. Wow. That's the other thing that's so amazing is like you look at this gast and it's just like a list of black excellence from like you know, Damon Wayans, Paul Mooney, Robert Townsend. Uh, Like it's it's just remarkable. Um. I just wish more women had been involved, meaningful, especially because they passed Helen Martin, who is like an iconic black sitcom actress, Like why not give her more to do? Yeah? Yeah, no, I mean, hey,

I I completely agree with you. I love I love feminism and famously new T shirt design. Our merchant is getting more and more basis time passes. I love feminism, Sam Mike. If you guys start doing, no, your next merch, your next merch is going to be like YouTube as venom and hardy, like front to back, like one of you was venom, one of you was hardy, and like,

that's that's the that's the new merch. Like Yo, beck Deel listeners, if you're still listening, go on the comments, Go on the go on the Bechdel cast Reddit, Get Jamie and data to make venom t shirts. Done done? Fine, Fine, I'll do it. Well, does the movie pass the Beck dol test Um. I think I didn't think it did. I wasn't I wasn't sure. I honestly like, I wasn't

paying super super closettention. But it did seem like most times female characters were talking to each other, it was about either Bobby or there is that thing where they were at the at the audition scene where to nameless actresses were talking about um getting sexually harassed by a male director. There's a couple there's a scene where the like the casting director I think is like her role.

She is named as Millicent. She is talking to another woman who gets named as Miss Strickland, and they talk about the role that Ms Strickland is auditioning for and like the type of person they are looking for. So that technically passes. And then the scene with Bobby's I

was so nervous, Wait, so it does pass. I think it does because I would also I think there's an argument to be made for the scene where Bobby's mom and grandma they are talking about Bobby, but it's part of a larger conversation about negative representations of black people in media. So I was like, okay that that feels like it would be maybe an exception to the rule. I don't know. The bottom line, women aren't in this movie enough. There's not enough commentary on the way black

women are represented in media. And it's the bummer because there's more than enough room for it in exact movie and like more than enough material too end things to

be said about it. And with that in mind, as far as our nipple scale, in which we write the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on an intersectional examination of the movie, even though it is providing a lot of really funny and effective commentary on the way black men specifically are represented in Hollywood, as we've been saying, there is a noticeable lack of commentary as it relates to Black women and their representation

in media. And I think even though some of the characters who are women in the movie, like especially the grandma, I would say is the kind of most important character to Bobby, she still doesn't get that much screen time. His girlfriend doesn't get much screen time. We know nothing

about her. There's just there's just not enough there. And there are many cases in which black men haven't shown up for black women as much as they should and this just kind of feels like one of those examples of like, why wouldn't you when you're making a movie that is specifically like a satire and specifically commentary on black representation in media, why wouldn't you include black women in that more meaningfully? And then there's the homophobic jokes

and slurs that get made. So I don't know where to land on this exactly on the nipple scale, I guess I think I can only really give it like a two point five. Yeah, I was gonna go like a two two point five. I agree with with everything you're saying. Um, yeah, there's just there's a ton of opportunities to include women and commentary on how black women

struggle in Hollywood. Here it wasn't done. You have like such a like such such tremendously talented Black actresses in this movie, and they don't really get to do much. But I do feel like this movie does something that just wasn't done at all at this time, and there wasn't any money put behind, and the fact that it exists through like Robert Townsend's like Cheer will Power is really amazing. Yeah, and and and I was happy to

see that there is a female producer. But yeah, ultimately it's like there's no reason women and where people shouldn't have been included more meaningfully here, And uh, I wish it had that said. I really enjoyed the movie. It's I like I would. If you haven't seen it genuinely, you should see it. It's really funny and good. Yeah. But two nipples. As far as as far as our scale goes, I guess, and I will give Who will

I give my nipples to? I will give I will give one to Helen Martin, and I'll give one to a Marie Johnson. I'll go the obvious route. I'll do the same, and I'll give my extra half nipple two winky dinky dogs iconic. Yeah, Sam, what about you? What are your thoughts? Um? I I do agree with everything you said. I think for me, it's one of those

things is just like a male black comic. It's I see I look at the film and I just see what it what it's done, and to me, I feel like some of his shortcomings is made up for what it has done for black creative people as a whole for thirty years. And I think that it's set a standard. It's set a precedent. It's set a pathway, and I think that pathway has been used greatly for men and women.

That it's still like a there's still a lot to do, but I do feel like it does do that, and you know, at the same time, it's just like there's not there weren't a lot of um just to get to a Blackmail in seven, writing, producing, and starring in his own film that is seen by countless theaters across

the country. That feet in and of itself, I feel like is just so impressive and just and just so meaningful overall that I think that it that some of the stuff that I think would be if it was remade today, which you know, we already talked about why it wouldn't work today, but like if it was remade today,

I think those things would not be in it. Right, So I look at it is like it all will probably wouldn't have as meaningful of an impact as it did then, And I feel like what it does there, I feel like it's just like it's the only thing

I can see when I see the film. But I I again don't I don't disagree, it's just it's just it's just something that I I can only see its progress because it's just it's the only thing like it there's there still hasn't been anything quite like it besides Scary Movie, which is made by the co writer of the film you know. Um. So it's a feat that only two black eyes have ever done in thirty years, and one of them both of them were in the same movie, you know. So it's it's just that that's

that's what I see. But I also don't disagree with anything you said. Uh, at the end of the day, I would give it like, I would give it five nipples, and I would give all of them to Anthony Hopkins. The twist full disclosure, I might cut that whole human staying part out of the episode. So if you want to, I like it, I like I like the mystery I will be based on based on what you just described, I'll bump up to a two point five. I'll match

Caitlin there because I hadn't. Yeah, like that the fact that Hollywood Shuffle did like pave the way for black female comedians, the black female you know tours like. Yeah, it's very existence is the thing that I find so as funny. Like to me, it's still one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. But it's very existence even exceeds how much I love it's humor. Sure, yeah, it's legacy even though, and that's what kind of like I

wish it had. It definitely has a legacy, and it definitely did a lot to pave the way and inspire particularly black filmmakers and just artists of color. I wish that it had a bigger legacy in terms of I wish more people have seen this movie. But you can see it's impact truly, like what it was. It was kind of fun to watch this movie and also and and be able to be like, oh, you know, I've seen like a ton of TV and movies that clearly are pulling from this movie. I just didn't realize it,

right totally. Yeah it's and yeah, it's just it's so I can't stress enough how to any listener that hasn't seen it, Like, how god damn funny it is? It's so funny. Oh, I wonder do most of your listeners have they seen the movie? Like do they tell you if they've seen the movie? Like some people only listen to the episode if they've seen the movies. Some people will watch listen to the episode regardless of whether or not they've watched the movie. Yeah, because most of the

movies you guys do is old. So I was I was always fascinating, like yeah, because I wonder if I wonder I wonder if anyone's listeners and hasn't seen it and still wants to see it, like you know what I mean, Like it's always I'm always I'm fascinating like that, if you guys have any of that kind of like ratio if like there's a lot of people that are like, oh, yeah, yeah, I check out Lolita because I heard it on the back dep hopefully not that one, but I think that, um,

regardless of it, it's shortcomings that we discussed. I think this is a movie worth watching. So if you have not seen it, you have listened to this episode all the way to this point, I would recommend checking the movie out because again it's still making a lot of meaningful and important, ineffective points that are still again all

too relevant today. So in that way, like there's some things that like age poorly about this movie, the you know, the homophobia and the fat shaming and the kind of ignoring women, but there's other there's many other things about the ignoring, but other things about it are are still sadly pretty relevant. So M yeah, um, we'll say m thank you so much for joining us on this roller coaster of an episode. I've had a blast me too, so thanks. Here. Where can people check out your your stuff?

Follow you on social media? Yeah? Um, you can follow me at the sam ike on Twitter, Instagram. Um you can also, um, if you want. I've been trying to become like the biggest Zoom comic. So if you can follow me on Zoom, I'm ww dot zoom dot com. Slash four six seven HP five to f C two seven w x Y that's my Zoom link. Click on it, I'll join you, get in the group, build my brand. Yeah, it's gonna happen. I've got a good feeling about this, and the pivot to Zoom is gonna be huge. It's

gonna be big. I'm gonna be crushing it. I'm gonna get like I'm already at like I'm already at like three thousand Zoom followers. Y'all just people just sitting there waiting for me to come on and be like, Yo, here's my house, and you know what you know who also is going to hear this, Jill Loft, This is about to send a zoom request. Did she listen to every episode? Yeah? She listened. She she will listen to your episode. She doesn't listen. Caitlin has a more thorough

mother than I do. My mom does listen to every episode. Hi mom, HILARI yo. Mr Durantula, y'all shout out. Uh. Durantula has always been really tight. I hope you're enjoying Scran. Uh. She doesn't live in Scranton. I always thought, I thought, I know you're from Scran. No, I've never lived None of my family has ever lived in Scranton. They live outside of State College, Pennsylvania. Damn it. Yes, you're right, you're You tell me that every time, and I always

think you're saying Scran. I always, for some ways, I always think you're saying Scran. Good grief. Well, yeah, so our moms are cool. That's the moral of this story and what else. You can follow us on social media on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can check out our Patreon a k A Matreon. We have a bunch of episodes there in the back catalog and probably a lot of Diane Lane on the way, so much

coming up. I can't wait for your listeners to be like, yeo, I really liked them, but when they got into that Diane Lane phase, it was really they just lost me. They lost that magic when they started focusing on strictly Diane Lane. Unfortunately, it is going to inspire us to change the name of the podcast to the Rectal Cast, and who knows what that's gonna be about. Even Dianne really fucked us over. But anyway, if you do want to check out our Matreon material, you can do that

at patreon dot com slash spectol Cast. It's a five dollar a month subscription and you get access to too bonus episodes every month, plus all past and future Diane Lane episodes. Holy sh is this a bonus episode? No, this is a real one. This is a baby Oh shit? Oh funk? I would have like tried you would have taken notes? Well, honestly, it's it's fine that it's better that you didn't. Yes, we wouldn't have gotten the Tom Hardy venom reference if you had taken notes, And that

was just beautiful, pure improv. Yeah. I love Yes and and ship Man shout out to Dell Close. Also, we've got our public store where you can get all of our our merch, including maybe a new T shirt design that is I Love feminism. Well, do you have many? They're gonna start, They're gonna start really just flying off the shelf. I'm telling you, I'm telling you the way to go. You guys got to get into that Venom you gotta get Yeah, that's true. They got that sequel

Woody Harrelson. Oh really, Oh god, Yeah, Allison's gonna be carnage. He's carnage is like Venom but red pass hard pass um. But yeah, you can get our merch at t public dot com. Slash the Bechtel cast and uh with that by everyone. Oh yeah,

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