On the Bechdel Cast.
The questions asked if movies.
Have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Nonmnam, Jamie, I'm hungry for.
What for you?
For me?
For my ass?
Yeah, for your ass and your titties.
Egg on my ass. I thought he took her whole ass, but it turns out just a portion.
Questions I'm not sure, wait, because she seems like she has her ass pretty much intact afterwards.
Yeah, but I don't know. But I guess I forgot again. My male gaze radar is all off, and I forgot to check the size of her ass at the beginning of the movie. Well, I was looking okay, good, good, disrespectfully. I'm sure.
Yes, I was gazing in a very objectifying way and I didn't notice that much of a difference.
Wow, get her ass? Okay, Welcome to Wow. What a really, really feminist introduction to the episode. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus.
My name is Caitlin Durante, and this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point, as frelutely and what's that, Jamie Well.
The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by Alison Bechdel and her friend Liz Wallace, which is why it's often called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It was originally created as a bit for Alison Bechdel's iconic I host was an iconic comic collection Nice to Watch out for, but eventually it became used as a sort of metric to see if people care about characters of marginalized genders, and the answer is often know. Today, I think we have
a great discussion ahead. Yes, So the version of the test that we use a little bit of a modified version, requires that two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something other than a man for two lines of dialogue or more. Yeah, that's sort of what we're up to. I appreciate if nothing else, the movie we're talking about today really warns you about men from Oregon, And I think that's a really important
psa that I rarely see reflected in film. To all of our listeners in organ can't wait to see you at the next live show. But like men from Oregon scary scary to me personally in my lived experience, I'm afraid of them in my lived experience. They want to steal my ass and eat it. That's just my lived experience.
Sure to sure that hasn't happened to me yet. Time will tell.
I was about to say, well, it's just a matter of time. It's just a matter of time. You meet them in a different city and then you find out month's sin they're from Oregon, and then you're like, oh, this man's trying to kill me.
Yeah. Anyways, we're covering Fresh twenty twenty two, originally released on Hulu. Was it, I believe Jamie? What's your relationship slash history with the movie?
Well, first, I just realized that the character played by Sebastian stand is in fact from Texas. So I would like to modify as he tells us. And so actually I would just like to say, Men who Live Live, I'd like to totally backtrack everything I said. I was just trying to be rude to an ex boyfriend. There's plenty of time left in the episode to do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In any case, my history with this movie is that I had not seen it. I meant to and then didn't, as so very often happens to me with movies on streamers. It's weird. I feel like I used to be sort of the reverse of this, but now it's like I am much less likely to watch a movie if I if I don't get a chance to watch it in theaters.
You're a theater girly.
Now I'm a theater girl. I'm an AFC Stubbs passholder. So yeah, I would have loved to see this in theaters. It's a bummer that that didn't happen. I don't know if there was like a limited release or something, but but yeah, I really like the stars of this movie, Daisy Egga Jones and of course Itanio's own Sebastian Stan.
Yes.
So I was excited to see it and i'd never seen I know that this was the director Mimi Cave's feature length debut, which is wild. I feel like it's such a fully realized thing. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It's a brief and uncomplicated history with this movie.
What about you, Caitlin, I did see it about a year ago. Maybe not right when it came out, but within not too long of it being released. Our mutual friend Bryant and I watched it together and I thought it was interesting.
Yeah, I think.
I already knew what it was about. It's about cannibalism, and I knew that going in, so I wasn't like surprised at the twist or anything.
I kind of was surprised at well, if we can talk about like pacing good stuff. Yeah, because I also felt I hadn't even seen the trailer for it. I don't think, but I knew what this movie was about, like maybe just through like hearsay or whatever it was. But yeah, but yeah, it takes a long time for it to reveal that it's a cannibal movie for a movie that it seems like everyone knows is a cannibal movie, right, What are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do? I did earlier today write a letter boxed.
Review bra I've never done before.
Yes, simply states this movie gives new meaning to the term meet cute.
Yeah, I gotta hand it to you. I gotta hand it to you.
Thank you so much. But anyway, Yeah, I saw the movie. I was like, oh, that was pretty cool, and now we're talking about it, so let's proceed, shall we.
I'm very excited. Yeah, there is a certain amount of like Catharsis, to watch a good movie like this, for sure, I quite enjoy So if nothing else, I feel like, there it's a good opportunity for us to publicly air out some personal dating horrors. And isn't that beautiful?
That's honestly a lot of what my discussion will be about here today.
Okay, great, then welcome to a gossip with us, because yeah, I feel like I really enjoyed this movie, and part of it was because they were just like you could just tell that it was written by a woman who has to date men. Just there were like these little details that you're like ooh oof, no eh hah, yeah, that including like there's nothing more bone chilling than being in a man's home and there's no signal and you're
like scary. I hate to ruin the mood, but I remember having to do that once, being like I hate to like wreck the mood, but like I need you to give me the Wi Fi just in case you want to kill me, and like, but you just have to be direct about it because honestly, at that point, if he's gonna kill you, he would just start at the request.
This is true.
It's not like I can change my fate at this point. But yeah, I like that reminded me of a couple of years ago we were just like, oh my god, Yeah, you have to be like, hey, I'm awkward, but I need to be able to call nine one one in case you're horrible.
Yeah. Also, so we just covered get Out and I watched this movie on the same day that we covered, So I like watched it out in the morning we recorded that episode, and then like later that night I watched Fresh so Wild. What a day?
What a day for you?
But the movie follows similar beats in the sense that it's like someone who goes to this unfamiliar place with a romantic partner. They have alterior motives. Yeah, the protagonist gets abducted, they have to try to escape, death is or you know, loss of autonomy is imminent. You know, lots of stuff like that, and then a victorious, triumphant escape from the protagonist at the end. So like, you know, obviously very different stories, but like following similar beats.
Similar beats. I didn't think about that. Yeah, that's very very true. Similar friend to the rescue thing. Yes, indeed, although I did love that they had oh my gosh, what is this character's name bartender?
Oh, Paul Paul.
Yeah. I love that they did have Paul be like no.
No, he shows up to help and then he's like never mind.
Yeah, and you're just like, well, I you know, I wish he had called someone else, but I don't not get it.
Right because he's well, we'll talk about him. But yeah, I found that interesting.
I thought that was an interesting fake out because you I think maybe it is because we just watched to get Out. I kept waiting for like the TSA moments at the end of get Out, you're like, oh, no, he's gonna leave. I guess that that is like pretty realistic.
Anyways, I'll do the recap and then we'll go from there.
Let's do it.
Actually, let's take a quick break first and then we'll come back.
Oh all right, welcome back.
Will you're back?
Sharpen your freaking blades.
Baby, oh or your teeth, because I just stand i'snna eat your s sebashians Stan, Like, what is going on there?
I've been trying to figure out what is going on there? For years? What's going on there?
Because I remember you saying you could not register who that person was until Titania came out, and then you're like, oh, now I know who he is because he plays is it Jeff Galuley, Yes, thank you.
We're a great recall.
Wow.
Uh yes, I think that maybe you know, in retrospect, my issue with registering Sebashians Stan's face had more to do with like Marvel glaze sure, where he was in a lot of Marvel movies. And I feel like, this is my theory, if you are in like enough Marvel movies, your face just becomes naturally blurry to the human eye for like five years, but then it wears off and you're like, and he's and he's doing I haven't I don't know. I saw the Donald Trump movie and I was like.
Oh, okay.
But in any case, like he's he's a good actor, and I feel like he tries a lot of interesting stuff. But this was around the time where he was starting to try more interesting stuff instead of just playing like the Ppee Warrior or like whoever he is in Marvel? Is he the Pepee Warrior? Uh?
Yeah, no, that's correct. Is he the Winter Soldier or is someone else the Winter Soldier? Don't answer my question, listeners, I don't want to know, actually don't know.
I'm just like, congratulations to Sebashianstan for the blur finally wearing off of his face. I do register him now as an autonomous human man. And I think he's quite talented.
H yeah, no, but I agree it. Tanya really did it for me. And while he plays a despicable character in that movie, he is unfortunately so hot.
He's really hot in that movie, specifically the little mustache. You're like, I know, what is it? And You're like it's my dad. Like You're like, what the fun? Anyways, anyways, let's keep moving. I do appreciate, like I feel like, and this will change the next time we talk about
Sebastian Stan. None of this passes the Bechdel test. But he has, like I appreciate when an actor recognizes they have like a somewhat punishable kind of handsome face, because Sebastia stand like he's like villainous handsome.
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Anyways, Daisy Egar Jones was great in Twisters. Yeah, and under the banner of Heaven, did you watch that.
I did not.
Well, it's really depressing. Don't watch it unless you want to get really upset.
I feel like I know of it because you made a joke to the effect of under the banner of Kevin le mignonk you.
Thank you for bringing that up. I didn't know if there's gonna be a way to bring that up organically. Yes, I would absolutely watch under the banner of Kevin, under the banner of Heaven, it's you know, it's an Andrew Garfield Police detective show. I would say, maybe too sad, maybe don't watch.
But under the banner of Kevin. Yes, anyway, Yes, let's get it. Yeah, let's keep moving a lot.
I like Chaos episode, Chaos episode.
Ah.
Right. So this is a horror movie, so you know content warnings. There's violence against women, there's abduction, there's human trafficking, there's cannibalism. The movie takes place in the Pacific Northwest, in Portland, specifically, I believe.
Yes we meet.
Noah played by Daisy Edgar Jones. She's a single lady looking for, if not love, she's just dating. She's out there dating, going on dates. She goes on a first date with a guy who ends up being a total asshole.
She's not having luck on the dating apps. Men are being gross and sending her dick pics unsolicited things like that her best friend Molly played by Jojo t. Gibb reassures Noah that she doesn't need a man, and they've just been conditioned by Disney Princess movies to have unrealistic expectations about love and romance.
And you're like, okay, twenty twelve, let's freaking go buzzby twenty twelve.
So one night, Noah heads to the grocery store to grab some treats. A guy there strikes up a conversation with her about cotton candy grapes. This is Steve played by Sebastian Stan.
Okay, Mistake number one, don't go on a date with someone you meet in the vegetable aisle.
Proceed with caution. I would say, well.
I just the vegetables. Like if I met a guy, you know, near the macaroni, I would be like sure, you'd be like, ooh, yeah.
I did have a guy approach me in the grocery store one time. This was back when I lived in Boston, so probably like twelve years ago. Okay, and he was just like, hi, You're so beautiful, and.
I said, who me?
And then we did go on a like coffee date. I want to say, like later that day. It was like a Saturday or Sunday, when I was just like, fu, I'm not doing anything.
You almost got freshed.
I almost got freshed. But I quickly realized that I was not romantically interested in him, and I said, I'm going to leave forever now bye.
Yeah.
So I saved myself from being freshed. Good for you, Good for you, Thank you.
I feel like I'm constantly putting myself in situations where I could possibly get freshed. It's a common criticism of me. I mean, but so far, so good.
So far so good, and it's not your fault if it happens.
I mean, let's be honest when.
Well, let's try not to put that out into the universe. But anyway, she's approached by this, you know, charming guy who's trying to flirt and he asks for her number, and he's Sebastian Stan So she says yes, and she gives him her number.
Who could blame her? She's but human, all right.
A few days later he texts her and they meet up for a date and they hit it off. It seems like they have a lot in common. They smooch, they go back to her place, and Jamie they have sex.
Don't tell me that you should have done a content warning for that.
Yeah sorry at the X Yeah stop. This episode is rated R okay. So some time passes and they keep seeing each other. It's going well, it's cute. He even suggests they go away together on a weekend trip, but Mollie, her best friend, is a bit wary of this because he doesn't have social media, she's never met him, she doesn't nobody looks like. She doesn't like that this trip is this like surprise that he's kind of springing on Noah, especially because like she doesn't know where they're going. But
they're like whatever, it will be fine. And so Steve picks up Noah and they head to his place before going to whatever this destination is, which turns out to be Cottage Grove, Oregon, and also where he lives seems to be a several hour drive away from the city because by the time they get there it's dark.
Yeah, it was a little confused about that, but also, I mean I can definitely relate with, even though this kind of stretches credulity a little bit, the feeling of like, I don't know, like someone that you like being like this is normal, And then I've definitely been a person that's like, ah, yeah, totally and this is regular for me, Like it's unfortunately definitely a thing.
Yeah, because you like want to put your trust into someone that you like, and so you're just like, sure, everything's fine, although we do see Noah seeming a bit uneasy about this because she gets to the house, she wants to connect to the Wi fi there's no cell service, and you know, he ignores that. He makes her a drink which he has drugged, and Noah loses consciousness. And then we get the title card and the opening credits, which is like thirty minutes into the movie. So surprise,
the movie's called Fresh. So it turns out Steve is the bad guy. Yeah, Noah wakes up in a windowless room, her arm is chained to the floor, and we're like, okay, saw vibes Savva.
I was also thinking of ten Cloverfield Lane, a movie I really.
Like, Oh, I need to rewatch that.
I remember really liking it.
Yeah, I know, so did I except for I remember thinking the end and I'll try not to say any spoilers here, but the end felt tacked on and that it belonged in a different movie.
The end was really weird. Yeah.
Well, also because you find out that that was a script written on spec I think that had nothing to do with the Cloverfield franchise, right, And then they bought the script and then like co opted it into a Cloverfield movie, and so you're just like, what, it doesn't
make any sense anyway. Okay, So she wakes up in this room chained to the wall, but instead of Jigsaw on a tape recorder saying let's play a game, Steve is in the room and he explains that he drugged Noah and that he intends to keep her trapped there, chop off pieces of her and sell her meat because people pay him a lot of money for human meat. And he says he's going to keep her alive as long as possible because the fresher the meat the bat
and the more valuable it is. And we're like, hey, the name of the movie is Fresh.
And they meet in the Fresh produce isle.
Uh huh, and she's standing under a sign that says fresh meets.
Wow, and that's just a little joke he's doing. Yeah, the movie is called Fresh. The movie's called Fresh, and you won't forget it as you're watching the movie Fresh.
Yeah. So he's like, I won't kill you right away unless you act up, in which case he'll kill her sooner. So Noah is obviously terrified because, believe it or not, she wants to keep her meat on her body. Molly, meanwhile, is trying to call and text Noah because Molly hasn't heard from her, and she gets a text response and it's clear to us the audience that it's Steve pretending to be Noah. So back in Noah's dungeon room, she's screaming, she's crying. She hears a voice coming from the room
next time her. This is Penny played by Andrea Bang, saying that Steve isn't there right now and that she's in the same situation as Noah, although Steve has already started cutting off parts of her to sell her meat. And there's a third woman, Melissa, although she has been there for a while and it seems that she has like lost her mind. Steve comes back and we see him cut up Melissa's amputated leg. He's tenderizing the meat, he seals it, he packages it into a few different boxes.
And he's like basically doing I mean, there is a portion of this movie where Sebastian Stan is like, remember Christian Bale in American Psycho, I'm kind of doing that. Like the you know, the needle drops and stuff felt very reminiscent of American Psycho.
Sure, yeah, yeah, you half expect Sebastian Stan to start monologuing about Huey Lewis in the news or Whitney Houston or something.
Right right, Like he's not as far, god, but I mean, what kind of yardstick is that?
But yeah, like.
Grooving around with his victims to like eighties music, You're like, I know this, I know for some reason this is a trope, right, yes.
And he's like putting the meat in these like little care packages along with like the photos of the women and like articles of their clothing and stuff like that. It seems like he always like says to these women, let's go on a trip, and then that way they pack a bag full of stuff and then he steals it and anyway, so.
He's objectifying women. Would we agree that he views women as proud objects? What do you mean? That was the thought I had? It wasn't the very end of the movie. But well, let's just go on a second. Wait, wait a minute, A looks like this guy respects ladies at all.
Right, all right, So Noah is determined to get out of this situation. She tells Steve that she needs to take a shower, which he is about to let her do, so he leads her upstairs. She takes note of her surroundings, but then she tries to break free and escape, and Steve stops her. When she wakes up again, she's on a surgical bed and he is surgically removing her buttocks.
Wilds.
Yeah. Mollie, meanwhile, is still concerned, and she starts digging and realizes that the picture that Noah quote unquote texted of her trip is actually a stock photo from a website. So Molly knows something's up.
Also, like the second your good friend starts texting you fully punctuated sentences, You're like, they've been kidnapped, They've been taken. Yeah, your close friend would never send you a full sentence in a text that's absurd.
Also, you see Molly's face have this like book of incredulity when she sends a heart emoji, and it almost seems like, oh, she never uses emojis. That wasn't established, And I feel like that maybe would have been helpful to establish that, like Noah never uses emojis. But you see her be suspicious Molly. That is when she gets the heart emoji, and that's when she starts kind of investigating.
She sees the stock photo, and so she goes to the bar where Noah went on her first date with Steve, and she asks the bartender, Paul played by theo Okinewe, who is a former lover of Molly's. They used to like have a casual hookup situation, it seemed, and she asks Paul to give her any info on Steve, like his last name from the credit card that he paid with,
and Paul eventually gives Molly Steve's full name. So she gets to googling, and it seems like Steve has a wife and two young k kids, and she finds out where he lives. Back in the Dungeon, Noah confides in Penny that she slept with Steve and Penny is like, oh, whoa, Like none of the rest of us did, but I'm not shaming you. It's probably a compliment. Actually, yeah.
Penny is like through the wall comments are very very funny, where she's like no shame, no shame, but like wow.
Whoa right? And then when Noah asks Steve why he slept with her, he's like, yeah, I told you, I like you. Then in a magazine that Steve gave Noah to like help her pass the time, Noah notices writing from another woman and it says like, if you're reading this, it means he likes you. Use it keep fucking fighting. And then it's signed Sammy Akbari. So Noah, taking this advice, tries a new tactic where she asks Steve what the human meat tastes like and he's like, oh, it's exquisite.
Why do you ask, though, And she's like ha ha, I don't know, just curious, and he's like.
Hmm, I still haven't seen Silence of the Lambs? Is he Hannibal Electering now? Is he like oscillating between.
No, I wasn't getting Hannibal Lecter vibes from Steve, but isn't Hannibal elector a cannibal. I mean, he says like, I ate her liver with fava beans in a nice kianti.
But he's just a killer. He's not like a down home cannibal.
Well like Hannibal Lecter. I don't think we at least in Silence of the Lambs. I haven't seen the other Like there's Hannibal and then there's Red Dragon, and then there's a show and you know, the sequels and the spinoffs and stuff like that, I haven't seen. But in Silence of the Lambs, you never see Hannibal. He's not like a flirty, charming, handsome young guy who's.
Like, wow, just drag him. She's kill Sorry, sorry, you're like geez, he's just scary.
So he he has a different approach than Steve.
Okay, okay, thank you, I need it. I wanted to know.
Meanwhile, Mollie goes to Steve's house where he lives with his family, so like his other home, not the one that he has a whole like cannibalism laboratory at and Mollie tells his wife Anne played by Charlotte Lebon, that her friend Noah has been seeing Steve, and Anne is like I are you sure that that doesn't sound right? And then Steve comes home, so Mollie sees him and he denies that he knows Noah. So Molly calls Noah's phone, which Steve has on him, and it starts ringing, so
he's busted. But twist, his wife is in on the whole operation, and she knocks Molly out.
The thing that is interesting about this movie is I really enjoyed it, and none of the twists surprised me. Like, I feel like the second you see her haircut, you're like, she's in on it.
You know, she does give off vibes that are a little too sinister for me to be super surprised by that twist. Yeah, so Ann the wife is in on this whole cannibalism operation thing. And then we get another reveal that she Anne has a prosthetic leg. Presumably she was one of Steve's former victims. She's a survivor of this situation. And then he spared Anne and married her.
Is what you can like gather. Then Steve basically invites Noah on a little date upstairs where he prepares a dinner of human meat her and the whole time she is like, you know, calculating away out of there.
Freaks a whole new you need to girl dinner, am I? Right?
WHOA?
So anyway, she's like feigning interest in the line of work he's in, you know, the cannibalism industry, and he's telling her about it, and she's like, uh huh, and she asks if he only eats women, and he's like, yeah, that's where the market is, plus they taste better. And then she eats some human meat from a woman named Hope, and then he brings her back to her room after
the date. She makes herself throw up this meal because you know, she obviously only ate it to manipulate him, but it's working and he wants to have dinner with her again the following night. Then we see Steve take Mollie out of of her like dungeon enclosure. Noah doesn't know that Mollie is there, although she does realize that some new woman is present, and then Steve cuts part
of Molly off. Also, Mollie had shared her location with Paul, and he sees that she's somewhere far away, and then her location becomes unavailable entirely, and so he's like, hmm, that's weird, and then he'll eventually set off to go find her. Then it's time for the next little date between Noah and Steve, and she's being very flirty and familiar, and she's like clearly trying to put Steve at ease and get him very comfortable to like let his guard
down and all that stuff. They eat Melissa liver pete. They also eat breast meat, which I think might belong to Molly, because I feel like it's implied what's being removed from her is Molly's breasts.
Oh okay, because I also was just like very un clear on I mean not that I'm like be more specific, but like I was kind of unclear on just the there's a little bit of YadA YadA when it comes to the healing process, for sure, because I just feel like if someone took even half of my ass, I wouldn't be like I can sit down for a date next week.
You would think it would take a lot longer to heal.
As a horror fan, I feel like it's almost a missed opportunity to like do some like And he has this freaky chair he designed for women without asses, Like you know.
I feel like she does sit on one of those like little cushioned donuts.
That's true, that's true. But wow, he does care.
He thinks of everything. This Steve also another reason I think it's Molly's because he doesn't specify whose breasts they're eating. He says the other names of the other uh oh, but he does.
He doesn't want her to know.
Yeah, he shows her this stash of all the belongings from like the women he has abducted, as well as photos of them. So Noah sees Melissa and Penny and Sammy who had left the note in the magazine, as well as all their phones. So now she like knows where the phones are. And then she really turns up the charm, except well, she's like, she gets very vulnerable and she's crying and he's like, come your babe, it's okay.
And then they start kissing, and then they dance and they start fooling around and she's about to go down on him, but then she bites his dick off. Question mark, I hope, So I hope.
So again a little unclear. I kind of wonder if this wasn't like available on Disney Plus, like if you would really get to see it. It is so weird. I added Hulu to my Disney Plus and now it's like, oh, it's cheaper, it really is, like, but no, it's funny. Like when you add Hulu to Disney Plus, it just defeats the purpose of Disney Plus entirely because you're like, oh, I feel like Disney Plus used to be really discerning
about like it has to be family friendly. And you're like, now I can watch Daisy Egar Jones like bite someone's dick off right after Nightmare before Christmas or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, I mean funny juxtaposition. Yeah, but anyway, she bites his dick off, or at least bites it enough that it draws a lot of blood, and she smears toothpaste in his eyes. And then she grabs a phone, grabs some keys, starts to escape, but first she saves Molly and Penny and the three of them.
You're like, what about Melissa.
Melissa's presumed dead because she no longer has a liver. They ate her liver, So I think that implies I.
Guess I don't know how bodies work. I'm like, don't you. I'm thinking of kidneys, and I'm thinking of kidneys because you well you need you don't have two livers, well, I know, but you can live without one kidney. I just was like, livers, you have two, okay.
Yeah, just the one liver and they ate it. So Melissa is probably dead, so she can't save her, but she does save Penny and Mollie, and the three of them fight off Steve with knives and meat tender risers, and they managed to get outside into the woods, but Steve comes after them with a gun. He's shooting at them.
He is absolutely furious that Noah tricked him. Meanwhile, Paul has driven to Steve's house to try to find Molly, but he's like, this is creepy, and then he hears the gunshots, and so he leaves, being like I've seen this movie and I don't make it out alive, you know, commenting on how black people often do not survive horror movies. Yeah, so he leaves.
I did keep expecting him to come back. Same, but I kind of like that he doesn't, like, I mean, because they liberate themselves.
True. I was like, I hope he's at least nearby so that they can get a ride home from him.
They are very far away, very and I mean as we're about to talk about, like the ending of this movie is very abrupt.
It is, yeah, although maybe you know, everyone ends up dead, so maybe they just like take the keys to one of Sebastian Stan's cars and drive.
I mean, I don't even mean that as a criticism. I was just like, oh, yeah, I guess it's yeah.
Anyway. So Paul leaves, but Steve's wife Anne shows up at the house. She sees that Steve is in danger, but Noah, Molly, and Penny get to him first. Noah grabs his gun and shoots him in the head, killing him. Then Noah goes back into the woods to get her phone, which she dropped, and Anne approaches her, pretending to be
one of Steve's victims. Then she attacks Noah, but Molly saves her and bashes in Anne's head with a shovel, and then the movie ends with Noah and Molly embracing plus a little button where Noah gets a text from I think, the guy she went on a date with at the beginning of the movie saying like you up the end. So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss. And we're back we're back.
So, okay, here's my big I'm just gonna come in with my big question. I say it, Okay. I feel like the characters are generally underdeveloped, but in particular, I feel like it really stands out with Molly's character. I feel like the black best friend trope is being sort of ployed pretty heavily here. Yeah, I guess what I will say is that, like I wouldn't say that, you know, we know Noah so well and we don't know anything about Molly, like I would say, we don't really know
either of these characters very well. But it's just the the trope of like, while Mollie is a very active character, and I like that their friendship is at the core of the movie, and you can read in this message of like, you know, Steve's maybe biggest mistake with Noah is to assume that a lack of biological family in her life means that no one cares about her, and that she has found family with Molly and all this stuff like that is great. I like friendship between women
at the core of a story. But you know, while Molly is a very active character, she's in the story to service no you know what I mean, I don't know for sure, did that come.
Up for you? Definitely, especially because in the first like several scenes we either see Molly in or like hear her in a phone conversation. She is just like giving advice to her straight white friend because we learned the Molly is queer, she dates men and women.
It was to the point where I was like, I wonder if this is gonna be a trope that's like commented on within the movie, because it felt pretty like obvious what trope is happening there, but it's not really commented on where yeah, she's just weirdly fixated on the relationship of her straight white friend and you're just like, God, what year is it?
Come on?
Yeah, you do see Mollie talking about like what it's like to date women and how there are fewer games and there's more emotional dependence, which she's saying it seems like ingest you know, she's kind of joking around, because that's otherwise a pretty like reductive thing to say, but
it seems like she's joking. But I was like, well, can't we see that then to give like Molly more interior life, like see her dating women and what that does look like in contrast to Noah dating men, that would develop Molly's character a bit more and make it so that she has more interiority versus everything she does
is in service of her straight white best friend. I do feel like she is that Mollie is integrated into the story more meaningfully than I was expecting, because she does, like go to investigate and then she helps to defeat Steve and she kills Anne. But it still means that everything she does is to like help her white best friend.
Right. It's tricky because I do yeah, Mollie does become a very I mean, the movie can't happen without Molly. It's not like she's strictly there and in the way that I feel like we see this trope in other movies where it's like a very expendable character who's just there to basically be like, so, how are you feeling about the relationship? So, like I will give the writer Lauren Kahn like credit for you know, this movie is
not possible without Molly. She's integral to the plot. For she's extremely active, like she's smart, like my favorite scenes
with Mollie. And also Jojo T. Gibs is really funny, she's great, but she thinks like a girl, like you know, like you when something is like a little bit off with her friend, or like the way that she views texting and the way that she approaches things like it all felt very like authentic and you know, relatable, and like even the fact that, just like the touches of like she makes sure to share her location with somebody when she's going into a situation that feels unsafe and
just like, yeah, I liked her character when the like internal logic that she has and she's funny and she's cool, but it's like there's nothing else really there for her. Like I feel like this movie would have been more interesting to me as like a two hander where Molly and Noah are like characters of equal importance as opposed to Mollie is Noah's friend, which is how this movie you know rolls out for sure.
Yeah, And I don't think it would have been that big of an adjustment, like writing wise or structurally or anything like that.
So and I think it just like from a writing perspective too, like Mollie is unbelievably loyal to Noah, like which is great friend love that. Yeah, but I would have liked to know a little bit more about their friendship. We don't really learn very much about it a bit, Like I think the most we get is her telling Steve they used.
To work together. Yeah, okay, like you know.
You work with a lot of people, like and there, I don't know, Like I feel like there is something a little bit missing for me there where I know in horror, very often you don't get a ton of
information about characters. That's fine as long as it's equally distributed, right, Yeah, But like it would have made more sense to me if Molly was like, Noah, you know, got me through this really difficult period in my life, or like something to really explain why she will go balls to the wall for this character that I feel like gets away from the best friend trope a little bit because not that like Noah, you know that your friend should not actively,
of course, try to rescue you if you've been kidnapped by a cannibal. But but I do feel like I would have liked to understand their connection a little more, And I feel like it would have made the movie stronger.
Right, especially because we open on a conversation with them, you know where Noah is getting advice from Mollie. We close on a beat of them like embracing saying I love you, I love you more, and it's like, well, then contextualize that a bit more please.
And I feel the same way with Penny and Noah, where again you get like the suggestion of a like cool character dynamic between the two of them. I feel like, you know, in a lesser movie, you'd have victims sort of turn against each other or whatever it is, right, but they are very much on each other's side. But again, you're like there's an opportunity for them to get to
know each other, and like they kind of don't. It's these like little jokes instead, and we don't learn very much about Penny, And again, I think it makes the movie stronger if we know more about her, like you know, and finding something she and Noah have in common, like I don't know, I just the relationships between women in general in this movie. I feel like, you know, there's interesting stuff there, but it kind of like there just wasn't enough for there to be a really impactful relationship
between women. Molly and Noah are great, but it's just for me. It was like, what have you guys done? Together, Like okay, like what is the friendship?
Yeah?
More for sure. Yeah, I want to talk about Anne her Wow, good arrested development reference.
Thank you. Yeah, let's talk about and Charlotte Lebon.
Yes, so you know, you can read her character as someone who did what she had to do in order to survive. It seems like she seduced Steve into sparing her and that was her method of escape from almost
certain death. So I chose to read her character and her behavior as commentary on people who are like the victims or recipients or survivors of some form of oppression, and then rather than siding with other oppressed people like you think they would, because you think they'd have empathy because they experienced the same oppression themselves, but instead they align themselves with the oppressor and become complicit in, if not active, participants, in the oppression of others, which is
something I think about a lot. I am conly thinking about this. It happens a lot in society. Ever heard of it? And I find it to be such a troubling yet fascinating phenomenon.
Yeah, I mean it's like all the fucking time, Like how many this is unfortunate? But yeah, Like, I feel like a lot of people have the experience of, especially people of marginalized genders, of like my first boss who's not a man, and then they are also upholding the same shit, and you're like, well, what the fuck the point? Right, what is the point?
You know, it's the trad wife phenomenon. It's like when black people become cops. You know, there's like a bunch of different exams, and.
There's all of these societal reasons, Like you're saying, like, there's societal reasons as to why this happens, but it is. It's like sad. It's sad to see in characters like Anne, and I appreciated that. I thought that, Yeah, that was like one of the more effective things in the movie. I guess I am fine with the way that that
character went. But the thing I liked the most is that I feel like the movie it does not have a ton of empathy for Anne, but I think it had a little bit in a way that I think was interesting. Where Noah, it seems like, is being presented with the beginnings of the same kind of dynamic, right, where like Noah, in order to escape the immediate circumstances is having to play meat ball with this guy, right, like he's thank you, thank you, no, but like she she is sort of having to play ball with him
in order to liberate herself, and she is different. She liberates the other women who are trapped there. But I did think it was interesting that it was like, oh, this is almost certainly what happened with Anne, but she did not liberate the other people. And you know I would hazard I guess out of fear and like out of selfishness and fear, right, which is why a lot of people of marginalized genders uphold the patriarchy because it's
personally advantageous and because they're afraid of not aligning. And you see it everywhere. You see it in fucking politics all the fucking time. Yes, we could keep going, right.
I think it has a lot to do with power dynamics as well, where people will choose the side of the oppressor because the oppressor has more power and they think that if they align with the oppressor, they will
inherit some of that power. And that is true, and that does happen sometimes, but it doesn't mean that they will be immune to oppression and marginalization because cause this oppression is very large scale in it's systemic, and it needs to be fought against, which is what Noah does, rather than what Anne does, which is like, you know, uphold it after she escapes quote unquote from the oppression.
Yeah. I thought that was really effective. Yeah. And then I mean we are quite literally bashed over the head with that message as well when Molly kills Anne, and I think she says like, bitches like you are.
The problem, Like, yeah, I came to you for help.
I almost like again, I feel like I'm coming dead too hard to that. I almost like didn't need that. I'm like, yeah, no, we get I got it, Like I got it. Yes, and is a part of the problem. But you know, it's a horror movie. It can't be.
It's weird.
Sure, sure, but yeah, I thought that that was pretty effective. I did have just like a story logic question where so like they have two kids and Sebastian stans just bonking women over the head and meanwhile, my sons are asleep, My two gorgeous sons are like upstairs.
And his murder cannibal house is so far away, like how does he have the time to drive the air and back to his other house where his family lives.
You know, yeah, you know. I yeah, cheating men, you know men, men with the secret life. They make it work, they make it work. Yeah, yeah, there are our strongest soldiers.
Yeah.
I thought the an stuff was effective, and I feel like that character's like presence was pretty well balanced. What I was interested in? What did you think of like when she saw I don't know, I guess okay, I do have questions about her ending right, because for a second, I was like, are we supposed to believe that this is like Anne's idea. No, it's Steve's idea, which makes more sense. Great, but you know, she sees his body and I feel like you sort of get a sense
of like a little bit of relief from her. She's like, all right, put it on ice. We're going to sell his meat. Yes, like is the suggestion there, But then she like pretends to be grateful for Noah but then tries to kill her. I guess I was just like a little bit coulde. I guess that's just the power dynamic right where she's like, now I'm going to have.
The meat business business.
Like I guess I was a little confused about what her end game was because theoretically, like she is now liberated too, Yes, but I don't know.
Yeah, I guess that she's just like so deep in the.
Meat, so deep in the meat. Of course, it's like she I don't know, I guess I don't know how that would play out for her in the courts.
Uh huh.
But yeah, I'm like, and you really want to keep running this business? Like it seems like it's kind of on thin nice as it is. Yeah, In any case, I just wanted to mention that because I wasn't totally because the movie does just end very quickly for me, where I would have been interested in maybe one more beat with Anne to understand where she's coming from a
little better. Like obviously her character is indefensible, but like in order to just like explore the idea that we were just talking about a little more and siding with the oppressor and what leads to there, I feel like it maybe would have benefited from a little more investigation of that, especially because like Noah and Anne, it seems like we're treated pretty similarly towards the beginning by Steve, and I almost feel like, well, then don't you want
to see those characters like interact a little bit. I don't know, I think it could have been interesting.
Yeah, And what about Anne made her gravitate toward being complicit and being part of the problem exactly, Like what were her circumstances that led her to that versus like how did she differ from Noah?
Right? I mean, because she is obviously she is a villain, but she is a more complicated villain than Steve. And I feel like it would have been interesting and just again like another chance to like have more character moments between the women in this movie that just kind of like doesn't happen.
Yeah. Also worth noting that Anne is a character with a prosthetic limb, which is not the case for the actor Charlotte Lebon, so it's another example of an able bodied actor playing a disabled character. I want to also briefly touch on the man who is with Anne at the end, who she tells like put his body on ice. This is someone who we've seen briefly before. Seems to be like an assistant who like helps deliver the packaged meat. He appears to be like a First Nation's indigenous person,
but we don't know anything about this person. He has, Like I think no dialogue. We don't know why he would be working for this white couple doing their evil bidding. He clearly knows what they're doing. He's standing right there when like the dead body of Steve is there, like he's packaging the you know, he's he knows what the operation is.
Yeah.
So it's just like why this care? Like this is not the inclusion or representation we need of indigenous characters. Why was this choice made?
Yeah, a character that could be so easily removed again, Yeah, just another like it just feels a little bit like what are we trying to do here?
Right, Because like a lot of casting in contemporary movies within the past few years, it is more inclusive, but a lot of these movies are still made by white people, and they're just like, oh, I have to fill a quota, right, you know, I want to be inclusive in my casting, But they're not giving a lot of thought about like who is in what role, who is occupying what he has the narrative power like yeah, and what implications a certain person and cast in a certain role has and
whether that tracks logically at all. So that felt to me like an example of like, oh, let's see an indigenous person on screen.
But in a role that could be taken out of the movie without any issue. Like, yeah, I agree with you there, And yeah, it's frustrating because I don't know who casts this movie. It is a fairly diverse cast,
but it cuts along very, very trophy lines. And this movie came out two years ago, Like there's really no reason for that to have happened, and it ultimately kind of undercuts what this movie is trying to do by like, you know, subverting the gaze of a cannibal movie, which is a cool idea and like it works for me for the most part, but it's like that level of care again, it's just kind of I mean, like a white feminis the thing to do is for one message
to come through really clearly. But the you know, intersectional thinking I don't think was there at least in the casting. I mean, and yeah, in the casting, it definitely wasn't for sure. Yeah, should we talk about Steve.
Let's talk about Steve.
I have to say I thought the like rom com portion of this movie was very effective for me in terms of just like, I mean, rom COM's the wrong thing to call it, but just I think my favorite parts of the movie The Cannibal stuff great, sure, and I like it, but there was this like weird satisfaction of watching someone who is smart blow past all of these red flags. It just made me feel better about myself.
You know, were so many times. You know, it's like, if you end up in a bad situation, you end up in a bad relationship, you're made out to be like God, I'm I mean and she says that to herself, like I'm so stupid, Like how could I have let this happen? And I feel like the movie does do
a really good job of illustrating the fact. I mean sometimes it's just Penny saying that through the wall, but like that, no, like there was not some crucial thing that you did wrong that means that you're now getting cannibaled. But I thought that the writing with like the subtle red flags, that whole section, that whole beginning section, really worked for.
Me, especially because the red flags are subtle enough that even if you are smart and intuitive and perceptive, you might not recognize them, especially because in just like the landscape of modern dating and so many men and I'm now speaking from personal experience here, but like cis men tend to not consider the fact that people of marginalized genders move through the world very differently, and that there's a level of like caution and self preservation that we
have to be far more concerned about than sis men. And I try to communicate that a lot with like people I've matched with on a dating app and we're scheduling a first date, and I am and not that I've always done this, but boy have I learned my lessons.
But like, generally speaking, I will insist that we meet in a public space and in a neighborhood that is familiar to me, because I need an exit strategy if I need to get away, I want to be able to do it safely, and I want to like have it be in a place where I can navigate easily.
But a lot of people who I'm like organizing a date with, and unfortunately I'm tragically heterosexual, so it's men who I'm dating, They'll be like, oh, well, just come over, you know, and I'm like, no, I haven't met you. I don't know you. I don't know if I can trust you, and they're like, oh, of course you can, blah blah blah, and I'm like, do you not understand that trust is something that people earn. You can't just declare that you're trustworthy and have me automatically trust you.
But so many CIS men don't seem to understand that. And again I'll tell them, we have to meet in public. I want to hang out in public for a long time before I would ever consider like going to your place or bringing you back to my place, like, I have to know that I can feel safe, and like the number of men who just like do not even consider that or care about that is astonishing.
It's interesting because I know that you and I approach like I think you approach dating much smarter than I have historically. But I mean, even who knows I really, I mean, you know, check the logs. But I do like I agree with you, and especially any time I feel like when I've done that dating, I've never even really said that that's what I'm doing because I am afraid it will be interpreted as you know, I'm afraid of the dynamic that introduces, even though it's like, of course,
of course you're thinking that. And I feel like a lot of men cannot handle the idea that they are not inherently trusted and that like the world doesn't fucking revolve around them for sure. And I mean, I think that what you're doing makes so much sense because it's like you're just normalizing, Like there's no reason for me to trust you. You are a stranger.
Yeah, and like I.
Have to move through the world differently, and I wish that there was a more like a clearer understanding to that. But I've definitely been I won't even say guilty of, but my instinct in the past has been too planned for that. But never say that that's what I'm doing, because I'm afraid of how men react when their pride is injured, which should be scary yet and my experience
is often violent, Yeah, yeah, or cruel or whatever. I mean, I think you get that quick with the guy from Jane the Virgin at.
The beginning of the movie, Oh is that who that is? Yeah, I didn't watch much of that show.
I've for some reason was so into it then, but yeah, that like he is the sort of you know, archetypical bad date and that this is like what Noah is used to. And I think that that ends up being very effective because as I was like watching the movie, I'm like, I would have fallen for this, I would have. And I think that it's very like you're saying that the red flags are very present and noted by her friend, but is subtle enough that she's like, it's probably not
a big deal. Let's see what happened, right, and like that sort of looped thinking of like, well, if I am worried about this, then how am I ever going to have a relationship blah blah blah blah blah blah, and like feeling that sort of loop. I don't know. And then when she gets to the house, I've just like soft triggered by yeah, just going into someone's house and realizing you're like, oh, I don't know where I am, or like if I do know where I am, I'm
not able to communicate easily enough. And now the power dynamic is such that I have to basically admit I don't feel totally safe right now. Could you give me the tools to feel safer and sort of being at someone else's mercy but having to maintain a like sexy like vibe while being like okay, like it's Jay.
What's your Wi Fi best word? Yeah?
I mean, but like I went on a weekend trip with someone who I had just recently started dating, you know, a couple of years ago, and there is like that moment where you're like, well, we don't know each other that well, and you know, and then the more time we're spending together, I'm like, and I don't know if I like you very much, and You're like, well, how the fuck would I get out of here? I mean,
it is just, yeah, I don't know dating men. It is just like means that you frequently find yourself in what feels like hostage situation, and that is a lot of why this movie works works.
Yeah, oh okay, wait, I have so many thoughts. One is that I think the fact that they meet under the circumstances of meeting in real life quote unquote versus meeting over a dating app might inform some of her feeling more at ease, even though they are perfect strangers
and they don't know each other. But because I mean to bring them back to our personal lives, you and I approach dating differently in the sense that I feel like you tend to date people who you have met in real life, either you know, in some kind of comedy circumstances or you know, different settings where I've never done apps yet, and I've pretty much only done dating apps and that's how I've met like ninety five percent
of the people I've like briefly dated. So there is this level of like, oh my god, I'm meeting up with a stranger who I've only corresponded with over text
or maybe FaceTime, but like they're so straight. So that does mean that I feel like I have to be extra cautious and extra clear about my intentions because I totally get like being wary of setting boundaries because of how so many men respond to setting boundaries and feeling like their ego is bruised because they're not automatically trustworthy.
But like you said, I am trying to like normalize the idea of like men understanding that they are just inherently safer moving through the world than people of marginalized genders.
Which is like it feels so weird at this late stage that like you have to be like, have you ever thought about this?
You're like, and so okay, there's a spectrum of what will happen if, first of all, a man just like ass this man saying come over. We've never met in real life before, but let's have our first date on my couch. That is a red flag just in and of itself, and I usually will just not talk to
the people after that. But if we've already had some kind of like rapport that feels fun and we were flirting and we like it seemed like a good conversation stuff like that, I will be like, no, actually, I need to meet you in public, and then I'll explain why. I'll be like, I need to make sure we vibe number one, because like, if we're just sitting on your couch and I don't feel any romantic feelings.
At best, that's awkward.
And it's like, don't you want to know if you vibe with me? Like what if you're not into me? Like this is a two way street first of all. And I was like, and that's just not safe for me, Like I don't feel safe or comfortable doing that. We have to meet in a neutral public place that is familiar to me. If they say, Okay, totally get it, no worries, We'll go out for a drink or whatever,
blah blah blah, fine, I'll proceed. Anyone who pushes back, and I have had men push back on that to be like, oh, then they act like I'm being difficult, like.
You've saved yourself.
Yeah, yeah, like you know everything need to know, which is that that person is scary and doesn't understand boundaries and just like doesn't care about people being concerned for their own safety and all those things. So right, there's that, But I'm wondering, like back to her meeting him in this public place and she's.
Done quote unquote everything right, and I feel like this movie makes it clear that even if you do everything right, that doesn't mean you're safe, which is a skin which is a very you know, negative message it is, but it's true. I mean, I guess, like coming from the opposite place, and I mean I'm just like absolutely petrified
of apps and and just strangers in general. I think that's just like, hmm, my social anxiety is such that it's always been a non starter for me as I've dated people that I met meet in person, and you know, as this movie demonstrates, not better, not better, true different
kind of bad. But I I'm glad that there is And I guess I wonder because I haven't really experienced it, but that like when it's someone you haven't met in person before, it almost feels like maybe a little bit easier to set that boundary because you're like it just makes sense, whereas like if it's someone i've met before again, I mean it's like I have a secret plan where it's like my my boyfriend right now, who you know, so far, so good. I don't think he's gonna steal
my ass. No, I love the guy. Uh, but but like for our first date, I was like, let's go on a walk while it's light out.
Yeah, even though I knew that we got along and that we vibed, and because you already knew him a little bit too, right, right, I.
Mean that's I think that that's like my level of paranoia with men that I was like, I will only really hang out with men that I am already pretty sure I'm not actively afraid of. Yeah, Like I just don't trust other people's vouching. I just like I just
can't do it. And and that's probably just like PTSD stuff from the past, but like, but yeah, so I just was like, even with a man that I have known in passing for like a year, still, it's like we have to meet up when it's light I need to like understand what your general vibe is right so that I can get out yeah, because it's like, but like even then, you're it's just so fucked up. I don't know. That's why I and I like that there's like almost this expanded metaphor of of course he's done
this before. Of course I'm not special, and that I feel like was very resonant for me too. Is like it is very tempting to be like, there's something different about me, and it's like you know, occasionally, but it doesn't matter, because the way a lot of CIS men will treat you is the exact same way they've loved, bombed and taken in a lot of other people who sometimes look strikingly similar to you. It's very spooky, it's scary.
I was thinking about this experience I had that you know about, but like I knew the guy who was dating had dated another woman who I had met before, and we look not dissimilar, and when things ended in this very like horrible way, I reached out to her and we had a sort of like moment of like
the play by play was exactly the fucking same. But it's just it is so many like little echoes of this movie just felt so familiar, and I like that, even though intersectionally I don't think this movie does well at all, there is this like understood solidarity between most women, and I think that's also authentic too, as like there are ants in the world who are treated just as horribly as you are, but do not have solidarity with you at all for sure, And I feel like, you know,
see that gradient, even though I would have liked more depth than the characters, like, I appreciate that well.
Going back to the like blame and shame component of the movie that Noah feels like we said, the red flags are so subtle that they are missible at least until she gets to his house. He won't give her the Wi Fi password and then she's drugged. Obviously from that point on, like the red flags are glaring, but prior to that, they are arguably not even red flags. Like a lot of what he does wouldn't ping for someone as being like, you know, him not being on
social media. That's something that some people just choose not to do, and it's not necessarily a red flag.
You know.
There's different things that yeah, maybe could be interpreted as a red flag, but like they're not.
I'm like unless you're old, you should at least have Controversially, you should have an Instagram account. If you don't, I think you're kind of fucking scary.
I mean, even if you don't post it.
But again, just have it. Have like have. I do feel like there is a necessity to have someone be able to vouch for your existence. Otherwise you're like, what do you have to hide? And the answer is often.
Something something right. But there are things that could be not even interpreted as a red flag. But she still blames herself and she thinks, you know, she says like, oh, I'm the only one who's slept with him. Oh my god, And she's disgusted with herself and humiliated. And Penny, although she does sort of like pass judgment to be like, wait, you slept with him. I don't think anyone others of us did. But I'm not slept shaming you, you know,
so there's something to that. But she then follows up Penny does by saying like, it's not our fault, it's always their fault. And the idea of like you said, you can do everything right, or you can proceed with caution, and you can just go about dating the way modern dating generally goes and it can still end horribly and it's because it's the fault of the perpetrators.
Yeah, I like again it's like it's all a little bit undercooked, but the core message of it and the fact that the empathy of the movie is clearly with Noah and that it's done I think just in a way we don't see in horror very often, where it's like, I don't think a cis man could have written this movie, because you do have to have sort of the lived experience of I have to protect myself and thinking on the other end of that, how would I think if
my friend told me this about this guy? Like, I feel like that was all very like well thought out and considered and didn't feel like ten y. I feel like sometimes especially with it's like talking about like modern dating, the technology's weirdly outdated, which wasn't true here either, which I feel like is kind of hard to do. So kudos kudos too, Yes, Because this movie is written and directed by women, white women, Mimi Cave and Lauren Con and it's also produced by Adam McKay, which I love
to hear it. I guess Lauren Conn began as Adam McKay's assistant.
Oh, not kidding.
Yeah, I mean I feel like we are saying more horror movies from a more diverse array of directors and genre movies in general. But like, you know, keep it coming, keep it coming common And.
That was my point. You reminded me of what my point was, which is that so many horror movies from years past did so much to blame the women for getting killed. You know, the whole trope of like, if you're a woman and you have sex with someone, then you got it right. There's that, you know, there's the final girl trope, which this movie avoids because there are three final girls.
And I think this movie is again trying to avoid racialized tropes in horror, but I would say it is less successful at doing that.
I agree, Yeah, Paul, just real quickly. Yes, On one hand, you have him recognized of the danger he's potentially in. He hears gunshots, he's in the middle of the woods, and he acknowledges like, I've seen this horror movie and I know that I don't make it out alive, so I'm going to bounce. But also, is that kind of commentary on how like men tend not to be helpful in these situations when it comes to like women's liberation.
It felt unclear to me, Like, yeah, I thought the idea of it was interesting, but it kind of just felt like a weird joke.
Well, why make him even drive the whole way up there if narratively he's not going to do anything, He's just gonna turn right back around.
That was the thing I was curious about to Yeah, especially because like I would be curious what got cut from this movie, because it did feel like there are certain little plot holes that probably could have been fixed by another scene that might have existed at some point. Yeah, because Paul like has not that he's like a prominent character, but he does have more screen time than a character who randomly bails right would have. Like you're just like, well,
then what was the point? I mean, I guess you know. His function is to connect Molly back to Noah again, a black character servicing ultimately servicing the white characters. Yeah, but then at the end, it's sort of like his whole character ends in this kind of confusing joke.
It's also implied that he's only helping Molly because he thinks he has an opportunity to have sex with her again or to like reignite there.
Which is like a man to do. And I appreciated that, like Noah and Molly different points use their whiles to get what they need from who they need it from where. It's like pretty clear from just how Noah and Molly talk about Paul that Mollie's like not interested and I think kind of ghosted him when they dated.
It seems like it.
Yeah, so it's not like she's all of a sudden interested in him again. I think she possibly knows that this is his personality and wants to, you know, keep him involved and entice. But again, you would think with Mollie and with all of these characters, does Mollie not have a second friend to tell Hey, I'm like someone that you would trust more than someone you ghosted last year? Like it just I get it. It's like a small cast and it's movie logic, but I just felt like
another it just the smallness of these women's world. It's just kind of bizarre.
That's why I think it would have been interesting if like Mollie is dating a woman, right, and she's person who helps Molly on this quest and we see what that dynamic looks like. Not to say that like women dating women is perfect in sunshine and butterflies and amazing and like that contrasted with women dating men, but like that would have been an interesting dynamic to explore to see how those interactions are different, or just just see what that looks like and also.
Feels like, I mean on Noah's part, Like if Noah's always hanging out with a couple, that would sort of explain why she might be dating more. Yeah, which because I mean, I've been the friend of a couple and it's like, if the couple is awesome, it's awesome. But sometimes some days you're like.
Wow, I am really the third wheel, ARENENTI.
No one's kissing me. This stinks.
And that's why I need to find myself a throuble to be exactly.
Yeah, Yeah, I think that that's all I really have for this movie. I think it's good. I like it. It passes the Bechdel test for sure.
It does. Noah and Molly they do talk a lot about Steve, and they talk about dating men in general. But I think that if you're going to not pass the Bechdel test, a great way to do it is to comment on how dating men is difficult and awful.
And that they are protecting each other.
Yeah.
Yeah, like they're talking about protecting each other from men, which I feel like spiritually passes or mistrusting men fundamentally.
Yeah. Right, And then Noah and Penny talk about their situation, which is they're only in this situation because of a man.
But if you know, I mean, I feel comfortable saying this movie pretty handily passes technically and on vibes. But what about the most important metric of all time? Can you tell that I have to pee really bad because I started talking so fast? So what do you think in regards to the nipples scale?
Will we rate the nipples zero to five nipples? Examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'm going to give them movie yes, three nipples. Yeah, I mean, you could look at this whole movie is like the meat eating of women as a kind of allegory or metaphor for just like the objectification and exploitation of women's bodies in society,
And that's an interesting metaphor. And the fact that the women triumph at the end and they stand in solidarity with each other and do the opposite of what Anne does, which you know her thing is she becomes part of the problem.
So and it doesn't save her because it never does.
Right, and she gets brutally bashed over the head with a shovel yike, and so right. So there's these cool things happening. The fact that the movie, even though the character blames herself, the movie is not blaming her for not seeing that she was being seduced by a cannibal who was planning to sell her meat. So I think
there's a lot of cool stuff going on. There are some things that I feel like we're mishandled, especially in regards to casting choices and the characters who are people of color servicing the white characters and all that stuff. So three nipples. I will give one to Jojo T. Gibbs, who plays Molly, I will give one to Andrea Bang who plays Penny. And I'll give my final nipple to semiak Bari, who we don't see on screen, but she's the character who leaves the note in the magazine.
Amazing, Yes, I am going to meet you at three. I think that this movie has leaves something to be desired in terms of intersectionality, I feel like there's a lot of surface y stuff where there is a diverse cast and there is queer characters, but it still is ultimately a white, hetero story, and these are the characters that are ultimately being serviced by the plot. However, when it comes to contemporary dating commentary, it's awesome and like
I think it works super well. The performances are really good, the writing is really specific and a way that I'm not used to seeing in horror because there's not enough women that get to take big swings in horror. So the highs are high, the lows are frustrating, but I am excited to see more, particularly from Mimi Cave. So I'll go three nipples. I will give one to Mimi Cave, I will give one to Jojo Gibbs, and I will give the final one to Oh my goodness who played Penny.
I shut my tab fuck, oh Andrea bang, Andrea bang, and yeah, congratulations to Sebastian Stan for me recognize him now?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, also quick shout out sorry. I know he have to pee, but I just want to say the moment of foreshadowing when Noah and Steve go back to her place for the first time, and she's like, Ooh, can I get you anything to drink or eat? And he says no, just you because he's gonna eat her.
Also just a classic cringe man thing to say.
Yeah, no, I just went you babe.
I just want you just feel good. I'm like, no, you don't anyways, fucking liar. And with that, uh, and that's a fresher movie. You can follow us everywhere. You can follow us on Instagram at bachdol guys, you can follow us on Twitter, backl the cast, and you can subscribe to and in fact, you should subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast. Five dollars a month gets you two bonus episodes every damn month. How nice is that?
That's so nice? You know what else is nice is the fact that I'm headlining two shows in Boston on November oh gosh is it sixteenth. So if you live in Boston and you want to see me do stand up, go to my website Kaitlindononte dot com and the links will be there for that. I just wanted to plug that real quick. Now.
That's what I call nice. And if you want to see me live in person in Los Angeles. I'm workshopping my new show at the Lyric and you can check it out on November twentieth and December fourth, and the other one's sold out sorry, And you can also get our merch at teapopulic dot com. Slash The Bechdel Cast. Holidays coming up, babe, could be fun, could be. And with that I have to go chop off my own ass and eat it for lunch.
Me too, Okay, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo laboord Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresensky. Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdelcast