Fifty Shades of Grey with Sara Schaefer

lot of gizmos and gadgets are plenty serious. Welcome to the I think that was a good opening. That was a good opening. We've got a lot to sort through today. And I would say that I'm for sure underqualified to talk about today's movie. To talk about today's movie, I also feel that way. We've been talking about doing this movie for a couple of months. It's been a fan

a popular fan request. I've been dreading this episod. Really I've been looking forward to it, but also knowing that every other word ought to be like but I don't know, I don't know. I the only I've I mounted a drummer. The most I'll do in sex is all of the work to make it end sooner. Um, okay, this is the Bechdel Cast. This is our our My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin, our podcast about how

women are portrayed in movies. It sure is. Yeah. I wasn't going to get a Mike's Hard because it's like kind of early. But then I thought about how much we have to get through, and I was like, I'm going to get a Mike Hart. I can't actually need to do it that hiss, Mike's hard. Uh, the ball still in our court. The ball is in our court. They literally they owe us the ball is in our red room if we have to do something about it. In your mouth every time someone vendom ozes me, it's

in like you do it every single time. It's the number of Mike's hards it is, which is just you know, it's two dollars. I owe you. I m ow you for right right that I'll get you through the week. Okay, So yeah, we use the Bechdel test as a just sort of jumping off point for a larger conversation. The Bechdel test for us is two female characters in the movie who have names have to speak to each other in the story, and their conversation has to be about

anything besides a man. So we'll see how this movie affairs. But first, let's introduce our guests. Oh my gosh, she's a hilarious comedian. She's the host of a new podcast called Loner at coy Wolf Creek. Sarah Schaeffer, Hi, thanks for having being here so passionate about this topic. Welcome

to our Thank you tell us why you chose this movie. Um, while the new fifty Shades is out now, so it's timely the closing chapter, right, the last well of the I think she continue E. L. James continued to write other things like, oh, it's now from Christian point of view, like there's all these spinoffs interesting, but I don't know if they're gonna make movies of those. But anyway, so it's a franchise and the third one is out. I had never seen the second or third one. I have

now in the past twenty four hours seen everything. Congratulations, been real turned on for good twelve hours, just totally sittillated. I just came straight from the movie theater and um, I have a lot to say, Okay, but yeah, I wanted to do this movie because I think it's interesting. I just think there's so many things to talk about, a lot to unpack, a lot and and sorry, were you into the books at all as their Um? I was not. I read like one paragraph and was like,

this is truly the worst writing. I mean, it's really bad. I mean the woman, I don't know how old she was, maybe in her four thirties or forties when she wrote it. I think, um, it was the first time she'd ever written anything, and it was like on a whim, you know, Star Twilight fan fiction, and so our standards probably should be a little lofer. But the fact that I got so popular A little backstory on me. There was a short time a couple of years in New York I

was actually working. This is really a little insight onto how if any young comedians out there, people pursuing an entertainment career, how fucked up it is. I was the head blogger for Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, biggest break of my career, but I wasn't making enough money to make ends meet. So I had all these side jobs, which was crazy because I was working like fourteen hours a day, and one of my side jobs was to

go to my friend Rachel Kramer Bustle. She's a big writer in the erotic fiction world and erotic nonfiction erotic writing in general. And she hosted a monthly erotic reading series in New York and she hired me to come and film it and then put the videos up online. And then I also made book trailers for her anthologies, which one was about spanking, and so I literally made a little short film of people getting spanked with clothes on, because like she wanted it to be you know, PG,

so that more people could see it. Um. But it was one of the weirdest things I've ever all these weird side jobs. So anyway I heard during that time. I wouldn't say I read a lot of erotic because I just I'm not a big book reader. I love reading. I go through phases of reading books. But um, I was an English major, you know whatever, I can read, guys. Um speaking of what we majored. And I do have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston, Okaya qualified on

so you are qualified to talk about this. Um. I got into a screaming match with uh debt collector. So I too went to college? Yes you did, so anyway I heard during this time, I heard a lot of erotic writing. So then when fifty Shades became popular, I was shocked at how vanilla it was, and like how

the stuff I heard was way more advanced and complex. Um, well, we'll go into So I watched the movie a couple of times, as I always do to prep for every episode, and then I did some extra work where I talked to a lot of people who have been in B D s M relationships before just to gain a better understanding.

I did a deep dive. So I have a lot to say in regards to that specifically, like how those people experience those relationships and also how they perceive this movie to be and how well or poorly they feel it represents being in a dom sub relationship. But we'll get into that. But yeah, we've all we've all got interesting angles on this sight. My little ankle I'm bringing to the table. I entered this God entered does not work in this particular episode I learned of fifty Shades

of gray. I think, well, I mean because this was like such a huge cultural moment where I remember my friends and I when I was in college, we would look to see how many people we could see reading it on the train, because that was like a thing that people were doing it, Like, oh, it's so funny that people are reading this like kinky book in public, and what an interesting horny move to be like a you know, horny alpha move. But then I actually interacted

with it for the first time. When my mom was like, Jenny, you're not going to believe this thing. I found she did the same thing with the Twilight series, which makes sense because so much of the top half of this movie you could just be like, oh, yeah, it's pretty much Twilight but with no vampires and Kinky aged up five years but whatever. So my mom was really like she had the box set this is prior to the movies, very into it. She was like trying to get me

to read the first book. And so all my early experience with this franchise was all moms. And that's a lot of like what the audience for this is, It is moms, And I know a lot when the movie started coming out, like friends of mine would go with their moms and it was like this can key bonding thing. But I do think it's like a thing, and and you know, there's five million pieces written about fifty shades

of great. Every single take has been taken at this point, but just we're going to come in with a new one. Someone heard me say that, They're like, actually just going to shut it off there. But but it is interesting to me where like that this is like obviously a franchise with a primary female audience. And how with with

Twilight too. It's like people are so shamed for like going to see these movies and enjoying them, even even if it is like, you know, it's a campy and it's a little silly and and to your point, is not an accurate representation of the B D s M community. But I mean I know I for sure participated and being like this is so stupid, this is so silly and dumb. And now I'm just like who cares? You know, it's it's people enjoy it. If this is how moms

learn about kink, let them. Let them. Mom's flipping to come to that. After watching it today, I was like, yeah, there's nine. I mean, there's issues we can get into the theater I was in today because it was early, it was like noon, if there weren't many people in the audience, um at that showing, but everyone was kind of like chuckling and laughing and they're to kind of

sort of go with it. I mean, ultimately, if it's a fantasy, you know, and there's there's there's stuff that appeals to me, and it like, how can you not get caught up in the fantasy of like an extremely attractive rich man like whiskying you away with you? Yeah, I mean that is like, you know, and obviously not everybody is into that, but like there is something beautiful about it where it's just I candy or like, my god, lush. Yeah.

So I just want to say that at the top because there is so much to unpack, but I don't I I feel badly when it's like I don't want people to feel bad for enjoying a movie like this, especially if it's their first exposure to something like this, because it is that in a lot of ways, it is fun. There's a former guest of the cast, Lindsay Ellis, recently made a really interesting video essay I would direct everyone to will put it in the notes of this episode.

We always say that, but we've never had literally never had not check out the notes maybe anyways, but she made this great video essay about the Twilight franchise and about all the vitriol and basically how society has a way of really unloading on anything that teenage girls really like and and equally stupid things that teenage boys like, like transformers and ship like that don't get the same

kind of vitriol. Um And I would argue that fifty Shades of Gray for for a slightly older audience kind of falls under the same umbrella. So if you enjoy these movies and you went to see them, I don't want you to feel bad about yourself. That said, and now the rest of the podcast. First, I want to say that I saw the movie the first one in the theater two thousand fifteen. It was the first movie

I saw in the theater when I moved to Los Angeles. Ever, but if the first movie I ever saw in a movie theater was no Um, I moved to l A and then that was the first movie I saw after moving here. Interesting that I saw in the theater. I went with a few gal pals. I did not really know what the movie was, or I hadn't read any

of the books. I still haven't. I have now seen the first two movies at this point, I have not seen the third one, but I do have plans to go see it on Valentine's Day brag Um, I know, but yeah, I um, well, I'll get into that later. I can't. I would be remiss not to bring up the Bengo board. One of our fans made a Bengo board, And now every time we talked about something we've talked about previously, I'm thinking about the Bingo board. And I

came into this episode thinking about the Bingo board. Yeah, where anytime we mentioned one of our motifs, if you will, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Did you do you have a master's degree in screen writing or something like that? I don't like to bring it up. So I mean I might just have some ban on board moments, okay, which is okay. So the recap of fifty Shades of Gray. Um, we meet Anastasia Steele. She is about to graduate from college played by Dakota Johnson, who is Melanie Griffis daughter

slash Tippy Hedren's granddaughter. She's a legacy. She fills in for her roommate, who is a journalism student, to do this interview or interviewing someone named Christian Gray for the school newspaper. So she goes and interviews him. He is a twenty seven year old billionaire. He's already he's built this huge business empire. Okay, there's so much vagueness in this movie, and I really love where they choose what does he do? What is his job? It seems like

he does telecommunications. I thought it was green energy, literally, because there was a mention she was like a Mudge fund that mentioned at one point. Mother right, they're starving children in Africa, agricultural projects in Africa. He's like a Richard Branson type. He's got his hands in everything. Sometimes face, sometimes learning. Sometimes he just has to go well in the second most So also you can have it all. Okay.

So the scene where he and Anna meet and she's interviewing him, and he's kind of like, I mean, immediately he's pretty condescending of just like what is this question? Was this question? And at first I was like, Oh, he's being mean to her, But then I listened to her questions. I'm like, oh, she's off, she's doing a really bad job. She was just like what she's an English lip major. She's the girl who wrote the babe

dot net article about Za. Sorry, She's like, she's like, she's like twenty one years old, like doing a really high profile red. I'm just like she she's like, do you have a hobby? And he's like what, I'm like, no, I think I'm on his side, Like you're taking up his time? Do you have a hobby? I wrote the questions questions, Well, they're not even her questions or her roommates ques anyway, the whole her roommate could not look

less twenty one if she tried. Anyways, So she, you know, they have this sort of awkward encounter where she doesn't do a very good job interviewing him. But he's mysterious, he's brooding, he's hot, and there's just the immediate spark. Well in the script there was written that they had an immediate spark. Do you all think that Jamie Dornan is hot? I can't. I can't. I'm not sure. For me.

It's his eyes. They're dead, they're dead, which makes him very, very good in the show The Fall because chiller, because he plays a serial killer and I'm actually, and this is super fucked up to say, but I'm kind of attracted to him in the Fall and he's literally a serial killer and a rapist. There's a lot of going back there. That's a separate podcast I would do with my therapist. The Fall is excellent, It's so good, and Julian Anderson is so good. Nice Anyway, I wish I

hadn't said that, but I can. People who have seen The Fall will understand you've seen it, haven't well. And there's also just like the whole serial killer thing, We've all been there. For me, it's Durst. I'm a Durst goal myself. The leads I want to dog killed him, all like that. Of course, yeah, you're attracted to him. I don't know if I am at swaddle him like a baby and carry him around. There's it's okay to

be titillated by things that are taboo. Exactly. So wise shows about murder and serial killers wouldn't not be on the air. Apparently Jamie Dornan has corner at that market. But for Christian great. Yeah, there's just something every time, there's moments where it's like he's registering with me as a person who's hot, but I'm not like attracted him anyways, Everyone's going to feel different, sure, exactly, so, um, they are played by all from Molina for your consideration. Visi's great,

We're Alfred willing to plays Christian Gray. We all have our own Christian Gray. Jamie Dornan, I there, it's it is the eyes. He's dead in the eyes. Yeah, not to bring down a fellow, Jamie, Jamie and Jamie violence really rampant, and then Jamie community not good. I'm so sorry to hear that. So these two characters, Anastasia Steal and Christian Gray are meant to be having a spark. So they have this kind of awkward interview and she's like, oh,

I was still about Anasta. Christian She's like all hot and yeah. There's a moment at the elevator and then she walks outside and it's like pouring rain and then she like horn tips her head back and she's like, holy go the horny rain is I really liked the horny rain. So she's about to carry on with her life until Christian Grave shows up again at her work in the hardware store and he's like, I need a bunch of rope and tape and all the cable ties,

and she's what's happening? Why are you here? Because at this point she's living in Portland and he's in Seattle, so he like traveled all this way to stalk her, and yeah, which is one of the many Twilight parallels early in this movie that it's like, okay, we know where the first act is completely mapped in Twilight. So he's like, let's go get coffee. And then they're like chatting and she's like, yeah, I'm an English lit major. I like romance. And he's like, oh, never mind, I'm

not into romance. But then like they're still switched about it because I when he said that, I thought he was gonna be like, oh, never mind, I'm not into college students. But that is not a problem for him, not a problem. Well, she was about to graduate, so she's probably probably yeah, so that he's drawn to her, she's drawn to him. But there's something. There's just a little something that seems to be keeping them apart, and we don't know what it is. Is he a vampire?

Isn't the distance between Portland and Seattle unclear? He's like, oh, it's it's a bad idea for you to hang out with me, but I can't stay away from you. Then one night, she gets really drunk and he like shows up, but where she is She did not tell him where she was, but he somehow did she not tell him. He uses, no, this is my main I'll save it. But I guess he uses his telecommunications empire to figure

out where she is. And then he shows up and then they spend the night together because he kind of like takes care of her and like, and every detail of that is dark. Where she wakes up the next morning and she's just like, did you undress me? And he's like, yeah, I had I had no choice. You were covered in vomit. Very shame he was shaming here.

He was barfi and then and also she didn't ask him to do anything, and also she wasn't even like if every time I threw up as a twenty two year old at a bar, It's just it was all just such a weird overreaction. And then he was like, yeah, obviously I slept next to you. I mean, realistically, I think we should really apply the Steve Bushey test here, where you replace the Hount male lead with Steve Bushey

and see if it's serial killer behavior. And that absolutely is every almost every single thing he does is and and it's called the cops. So they start to sort of develop this romance. But he's like, I have to tell you something. And then he shows her his room, his playroom. He calls it it's dark, expensive room. It's revealed that he is into B D s M. Now she is still a virgin at this point. She's never had sex. She's never really had any sort of sexual encounter.

Very important thing to remember. That's another Yeah, that's another thing that really bugs me about whatever. Yes, I mean, we'll get into it. Really about He's like, if you're going to do this, and you can leave at any time, but if you consent to entering into this type of relationship. Here the sort of conditions. He sort of like, you're going to move in for the weekends. There's literally yeah there'

he draws up this whole. He makes her sign a nondisclosure agreement first, and then he I want to start doing just like drowning in red flags at this point. That's why she speaks so softly. And then yeah, so then he shows her the room and she was like, WHOA, I don't know about this. This is all new to me, a whole new world. And then let's see how many Disney songs I can sing um and then he's like, we will agree to everything that might happen ahead of time.

There's gonna be like I need you written consent to so they he draws up his contract, and then there's this actually what I think is a pretty fun scene where they negotiate the terms of the contract. I liked that scene, saying like what she's will willing and not willing to do? In the meantime, they're like, she has sex with him for the first time in a non there's no bondage or there's no so manipulative the way

they he does. I mean, like the whole central relationship issue here that I feel like probably misrepresents b DSM relationships in general, is like one is kinky, the other just wants a regular relationship. Can they make it work? And at every point in the movie it kind of seems like, no, they can't. She really does just want a normal relationship and he really doesn't. So, but we do see her consenting for the part to the things

that he does. So then the movie, it's sort of the big climactic moment is when she's like, I don't really understand why this needs to be part of our relationship, like why do you want to punish me? This isn't really what I want because part of like sort of the terms of the contract is that, like, there are these rules. Um, if she obeys them, she will be rewarded.

If she disobeys them, she will be punished. Really unsexy climactic scene to this movie, well yeah, because then so she she's still trying to gain an understanding of why he needs this or what what about this is fil filling to him and because she's not really feeling the same way, and then she says something like I need to see how far this can go, like I need

to see what the limits of this are. And then there's a scene where he strikes her with a flogging device I don't know the terms, six times and she's going and it's a full on whip in that part, and this greatly upsets her and she is basically just like, don't touch me. This is over. I gotta go. I'm out, And that is pretty much the end of the movie.

Wait you left, I probably left some left out where the elevator door start to poz and another emotional dey of names end of the movie it to black you really do have to see all three Okay to understand this story. Okay, I will poorly constructed story. So I've seen one cait scene to Saracene three. Al Right, well it so for me. I was telling Caitlin this on the way over. I mean before we get into the sub sub subcategories. Wait when you said sububs, did you

mean subcategory about subs? Oh my god, no, go on there, but but another term that we'll have to Okay for me if the franchise ends at the end of movie one, I almost think it's like, for all of its problems, kind of an interesting story because what I was expecting going into this because I didn't really I know what happens up until the scene in the hardware store, because that's where the writing got too bad and I had

to stop reading my mom's book. And also I was like, I'm reading my mom's Krusty Comb book like I don't want to anymore, so I stopped reading it. So after that I didn't know what happened. And as a protagonist, Anastasia does undergo a pretty like significant arc. I thought, where you know, she's whatever three, like she's a verge in at the beginning of the story and gets into this pretty sus relationship. I think we're talking the fourth time she has sex. She's being whipped exactly like I

can't imagine the third time. I mean, like it's so very unbelievable. It's a steep curve. And I don't want to spoil anything. And I don't think I am because like I think everyone knows the third one, they get married, because like at the end of the second one there, yeah, yeah, Mrs Gray. Okay, so I am not joking when I tell you that the entire trilogy is maybe eight weeks

of time. I am hidden, they even say. And there's a point in the third movie where they go, well that happened three weeks ago, and it was like something from the second movie, and I was like, oh my god, this one. This character goes from college student virgin to I don't I don't want to give away dungeon. It's unable from the point that they meet in the first movie and book to the end. Maybe I don't know about the book, but in the movies it's like eight

weeks of time. It is so crazy, like from her graduation till like the next September it's really weird, and it's the specific Northwest you can't tell seasons training. I kept projecting like Horny Fraser into all the Seattle scenes. But but in terms of like if the franchise ends at the end of the first movie, for me, she

gets into this relationship, it escalates very quickly. She is in many ways sort of empowered by B D s M and learning how to say no and set boundaries where she's very meek at the beginning and uses that new knowledge to break off this harmful relationship end of movie. If it ends right there, I'm almost like, that's kind of an interesting story and not you know, artfully told, but an interesting story. But every one knows the date

does not stop there. So but if it in the you know devil, if it ends at the first movie and she just moves on with her life and with like, wow, what a weird time. Anyways, moving on, I'm twenty two, you know, like I thought, kind of interesting. Well, okay, let me start by saying, one of the reasons I'm dreading this episode is because I feel like I'm a virgin. I only saw a movie in the theater for the

first time three years ago and I have never had sex. No. The reason I'm dreading this is I think I'm going to accidentally misspeak or just say some things that sound kind of kink shaming, and I don't want to do that. I'm coming at this topic of b D s M from an outsider. I don't have any experience in a relationship of that nature, and I'm having issues digesting it as a relationship dynamic. Since I've spoken to some people, I've gained a better understanding of it, and I feel

a little bit differently. But to me, at first, before I spoke to anyone about it, and especially pretty much my entry into this type of thing, aside from going to the Museum of Sex, New York City several times and like reading some stuff there, I didn't know that much about b D s M. So to me, from an outsider's perspective, I was looking at a dom sub relationship, especially one that is a male dom and a female sub, and to me that just looked like sort of a

very heightened version of what society's expectations are of men and women, and how men are expected to be the dominant, powerful ones and women are expected to be submissive, obedient people. And I was having a just a difficult time accepting that as a things. I was like, well, how could that be empowering to anyone? And what like it Just I was, you know, just really struggling with that. And also, this is me. I'm coming from a place where my

tastes and sex, not to get too graphic, are extremely vanilla. Um, I'm so boring. I like very boring sex. I don't sex shame yourself. Boring sex works. My kink is extremely boring sex. Um. So there's not really anything about b D s M that appeals to me. And I think that's okay, just as people who are into b D

s M that's okay too. But I'm I was still just like, well, what about how like this is like submissive women and I want women to be empowered, Like a lot of what we talked about on this podcast is like women who have agency and women who make choices and are strong and empowered and all this stuff,

and like that's what I really enjoy. And then to see a relationship dynamic where the woman is submissive and the male is dominant, I was just like, ah, but I've spoken to some people who have experienced b D s M relationships and they have cleared some things up from me if you would like to hear about it, okay. So I spoke to four people total. Three of them were women who were the sub and a hetero relationship

where they had a male dom. One of them was a guy and I wasn't sure if he was a sub in this relationship, but he said that he was in a relationship with a DOM, So I don't know if that dynamic played out where he was the sub, but he was able to he answered some questions I had, so um. The first question I basically asked everyone was what is it about b D s M that people who are into it find appealing or fulfilling? What do

you get out of that type of relationship? I think that's a very complicated question that differs for every person, and it's going to be different for everyone. But it seems as though some of the common trends that I discovered where it can help people cope with a past traumatic sexual event or an assault. For subs, it can be enjoyable because they like to feel as though they're

taken care of. Um. It also allows them an outlet where they don't have to be in control because they might have a lot of power and responsibility and other aspects of type stuff life. So it's like, I like to not have to be in control of this situation. Similarly, um, they just like to feel It's like it's freeing to just sort of surrender control and not to have to worry about what to do to like please someone sexually.

Like it's like you just tell me what to do and I'll do it, and like I don't want to have to worry about what to do next or if you're enjoying yourself or whatever. So I'm sure this doesn't even begin to like this is like the tippitty Iceberg. There's also like pain stuff. You know that, like pain

is a releasing sexual pleasure pleasure. Yeah, right, so this is again I only spoke to four people, so basically I'm like, okay, so it actually can be empowering to these A lot of people would say the sub actually has more power, yes, and that's another thing I learned. I think that's different. But in movie three there's a moment where you wonder who really is in control here? Well, also I learned that subs set all the limits, and well we see that kind of in the negotiations scene.

So I did some inadvertent research for this episode a couple of weeks ago in this very building, because comedians Eli Olsberg and Alison Stevenson hosted this show called SSFW where they invited a DOM in a sub who worked professionally in a dungeon, a Los Angeles area dungeon check it out in the Metropolitans met our dungeon, and uh, there was like a panel of comedians and then we were just I mean, it was basically just an open dialogue with with a DOM and a sub who have

that relationship personally but also work in that sector professionally, and it was really enlightening and I super encourage people who have never learned anything about it because this was my first experience just like listening to someone in front of me talk about it openly for an hour, which is kind of a cool thing to have happened. And based on that, you know, quote unquote research as it were, it seems like fifty Shades tries to get it right

and is not quite get it right. Like there's elements of it and again this is I mean the same same as you. Like, I've never been in a b

D s M relationship. I pretty much exclusively fuck magicians and drummers, as I've said before, and I have no intention of changing or improving myself, so uh, and they're notoriously lazy in bed so uh not a B D s M gal But from my understanding of it, like there was a lot of talk about how contracts work and how in b DSM relationships, uh, in particular, like communication and like clear and positive communication is so important

because like the relationship, I mean, every relationship relies on communication, but this one extends to physical safety. And I feel like, and again we'll feel free to disagree because I don't have the context for it, but I feel like this movie and franchise kind of conflates like a kinky b D s M style relationship with an abusive relationship and says like one equals the other, when all the research I've read indicates that that is not at all the case.

So yeah, I mean that's like she's being introduced to this world that she doesn't know anything about, and she's confused by it and doesn't feel the way he feels, which is this is supposed to be awesome, and this is what I want. It's like someone who is I don't know the labels they give themselves, so I apologize if I'm getting it wrong. But like someone who's into B D s M and then someone who's not king first non kink or something, um kink versus virgin, she

doesn't know what she is yet. I mean she might be later, you know, but she doesn't know, and so she's being introduced to it. Some of it she really likes, she's are excited by it that some of it scares her, and she's getting an education, like she's like getting a PhD when she's like just learned how to read. Like it's just too much. Um. So I can see that.

But what they do with the abuse thing, I think is they give him this backstory that it like for him, comes from a place of where he was abused, So that's why this type of thing gets him off and makes him feel good and in control. They get more into that in the later movies, but like I think for that point, it's like, that's okay if that's why you're into B D s M. But I just think she's so like, but I want to know why why

won't you let me touch you? Like and like, you know, she just wants to know why, why are you into this? And so there's a lot of like darkness put on it, like it's this bad, shameful thing. So in that way,

it shames it a little. But then the other the part that really bugs me the most about this movie, other than the timeline part of it, when is just like when I think about what I was like at that age, and like, I I lost my virginity when I was twenty one, so I was a little a little later than other most of my friends, So I know what it's like to be like a late bloomer in some ways. I mean that's not the latest, but like it was late for me, felt late and I

can't imagine going to that level that quickly. But one of my biggest issues with it was that while the sexual relationship was actually a pretty straightforward lesson and consent, like I actually think that was correct consent in the later and I don't know if it was two or three because I just watched all of them in the past one form, but there's like a moment where she said actually uses her safe word, she says red and he immediately stops and like unshackles her or whatever, and like,

you know, he like fully respects her sexually in that way, even though he does try to wear her down and he does some course of things. Um the part that I can't get over, which is the the stalking behavior like and that and the abusive like keeps playing out where he doesn't want her hanging out with her friends. He's isolating. These are things that abusers do, like they don't want you talking to your friends or family. He like knows her bank account numbers. He's like stalking her

and tracing her phone and like it's so inappropriate. And I actually disagree with the Steve bishemything only in that I don't care how attractive a guy was. I do think if he was behaving that way, rich or anything, there would be enough red flags where I would just be like, you're fucking creepy, like even showing up my work.

I don't care who you are. If Brad Pitt did that to me, I would be like, shut up, creeping me out, And the illusion is gone because I mean, I just don't find that attractive and so like, and I always careful to like, even though it is hilarious to think of like a gross, like shlubby guy from accounting doing this stuff like that's hilarious, and of course women are you know, the power dynamic. It wouldn't even matter, like like how do you think Donald Trump gets women?

Like like he managed to do it? You know, like you know what I'm saying, Like it doesn't matter what they look like. And I so I'm remiss to like because an argument you see, like from men's rights activists online all the time, is like, uh, well, if it was attractive, I could do whatever I wanted, Like if a hot guy did this, I could, you know, And it's like, no, that's actually not true. But no one wants to be like that does happened though, But she

does right in the movie. That's what the main thing that I just can't do it. I can't handle that part of it. It's like it's just and I understand it's a fantasy, but that's not like what I would fantasize about. The Virginia thing bothers me and it's not even I mean, you know, she is a consenting adult.

I think the consent I mean, and I've only seen the first movie, but consent seems to be something that really was considered very carefully in the way it's represented in this franchise, because it I mean it, it is so easy to get it wrong. Movies get it wrong all the fucking time, and therefore why in the movies we've covered on this podcast, there's a weird surprise kiss that's presented as very roman so as far as consent goes, like, I recognize that although she as a version, she is

a consenting adult as well. But in the scene where she says she's a virgin, when she says that, that like visibly increases her value to that where you know, it's like right, and I'm like, no, this is where you pump the brakes and make sure she knows what she's getting into. That's the responsible way to deal with the situation, not being like, oh, I have to you know,

because that is manipulative behavior. He already knows at this point that she does not know anything about B D s M and is interested in a traditional relationship, like he knows that, and so what he does to get her into this B D s M relationship is give her taste of what a traditional relationship might be like and takes her virginity. And I just that really bothered me. That felt like especially big like trespassing of like someone

who just doesn't know yet. It's values. It sucks, and especially because that scene where like he's about to take her virginity if you will, He's like, we need to change this situation. She's like, oh, it's on a situation, am I But like because they had already talked about consent and how important that is. But then he isn't like, well can I have sex with you? Like I don't know, it's this weird. He's like, I'm going to take you into the room, and what's going to happen. He buries

the lead in a lot of ways. I think where he starts he says, I've done this with five other women or whatever, like he I think he's just fifteen in this exact same situation, so he knows what he's doing and he's an adult, and and he knows what she doesn't know. And I just the way that she enters this relationship seems it just puts her in such

a big disadvantage. And well, I mean, and then the total control he has by buying in the movie too, he buys the company she works for, and it's like, you know, like I think there's just so much control. It actually makes me not buy him as a dom. I'm kind of like he's in so much control in his life. You would think that in his private life

he'd be a sub, But he was a sub. He says he was a sub in his first b DS relationship, which was rape because it was an adult woman with a fifteen year old boy, which an Asstasia calls out multiple times, and she's like a predator that comes out. Yeah. So when I first saw it was like, I fucking hated that movie. It was just like watching someone being

raped and beaten, you know. And then by the third one, I was kind of like I understand what they're trying to do here, and it is a fantasy, and there were parts of it that I was like kind of caught up in. I mean, you know, the sex scenes to me, weren't that titillating, although there were a couple of moments where I was like damn, oh my god, like when the one where he first of all, he breaks it, enters into her apartment and shows like so

Twilight moment, unacceptable. I don't care who you are, Um no, not okay. I don't even if you were Brad Pitt would be like, Brad Pitt, get the funk out of my part out. So he shows up in her apartment and he like fox her on the bed, and that part I did. I was like, damn, I might have to pause the movie, um like because he like pulls up her shirt and uses it as a black and I was like, oh my god, that is that's good. I mean, you can tell he's good at fucking, like

there's no question him and his dead eyes are. Yeah, he's mechanical about it, like he's a robot, like you will come, which is kind of hot multiple times, although in the first movie she doesn't come. She does not come. We don't see her come, yeah, which I found I

was waiting. There were also so much pubes in these movies, like a lot of people, they go so close to seeing Dick and Madge like they really and I appreciated that I wrote I wrote down nice pubes, dorn and and genuinely when I felt she's got pubs too well, to the point that it was brought up earlier that it has the same problem that we see in Twilight, where like he is stalking her, he's being like a predator,

he's showing up at work, he's being very cootable. Okay, So before I say that, I asked the people who I was talking to. I said, does the dom sub component of your relationship carry over into other parts of your relationship not just like in the bedroom for sexual encounters, And different people had different answers, so I think it probably varies widely. So I was curious, Okay, is him being controlling of her just an extension of him being

a dom right? But then I was like, I just I simply can't accept that because he's being very predatory and it's but it's framed as being romantic. She's like, Oh, he's showing up at my work and he's traveled all this way to see me. My thing is that it's one thing if she agrees to all of that, but she never signs. So if she signs the contract and that behavior is happening, and that behaviors in the contract, then Okay, you need to schedule a follow up meeting

with this guy. But I think there's a reason for

that after seeing all three. I think the reason is is because he is changing to they're meeting in the middle somehow, and you find you find that they're trying to find a way to do the sex the way he wants to do it, in a way that she's comfortable with, and then in exchange and you see that even happen in the contract negotiation where she gets a little bit of the girlfriend experience in exchange, and so you see him breaking his own rules because he's ill

I think we can do. I think that's the reason the contract never got signed. Um, don't bite your lip. I can't see it all right, Dar's like, don't bite the lip by that lip. I don't want to come yet. I don't want to Also, they he's behaving that way long before it's ever agreed upon that they're going to enter a D s M. So that's I think what's the big problem is for me, one moment that I was like, now this is just crazy is where he's buckling her into the helicopter, so sort of like him

buckling her up. But I was like, the way it's done is very much like, um, the similar mechanism of a baby of a car seat where you have to

pull it tight. And that made me once again like underscore or something else that I kind of found interesting about the movie is that it's so childlike in the telling, and I'm so curious about b. L. James's sex life, like the writer of the Book of Life that she's never done anything other than missionary stunted, and like I would even there were moments where I was like, this movie reminds me of the Room where Tommy was so in the room clearly had this childlike perception of relationship

of sex of like movies, and like this is I'm going to portray it. And I felt this felt the same thing about fifty Shades of Great, which is like very childish, like a lot of real world problems just sort of melted away. I don't know, just maybe it's from having heard a lot of erotic writing that was just more grown up and more mature and more really about the characters and in the moment what it means, and like this just felt sort of like an immature

view of what b DSM and kink would be. Someone like al James, in my mind, probably had never done any of this sex stuff and just fantasized about it, imagined it. I don't think she, but I could be wrong for me. The movie Secretary if you've ever seen. That movie is an incredible portrayal of a B DSM relationship and like and it's disturbed. It was my first real introduction to that type of relationship and portrayed on screen for sure, and I was really like, it's way

more complicated than I thought. It actually to me was a beautiful love story. So I highly recommend watching that movie because it's portraying this type of subdom relationship in a way that is really raw and real and like in the end, very touching. Like it's very it goes to really fun places, but you you you understand the commitment and the bond between them, and that this is what these two people love and enjoy about each other.

Their dynamic is everything. Now it's there's some weirdness in that, the fact that he's her boss, but but he finds his match, she finds her match, and it's kind of like incredible, which I think another problem might have with this movie is that the power dynamic, and I'm sort of speculating here, but I would imagine that in a healthy b DSM relationship, the power dynamic it's still pretty equal, and even though it might seem as though one is

more dominant, and one is more submissive because the sub is setting the limits and calling the shots and and feeling liberated and all this stuff, and the dom is basically doing only what the submissive will allow. I would imagine that there's still a pretty equal power balance. Struck.

One thing that the professional dom subs that I heard speak really made a big emphasis on, something that I noticed was not done in this movie, was like after the playroom stuff is done, that it's like very important to have like together time and like cool down time and like i mean spooning basically after sex and and just you know, it's like you've had this cathartic experience and you've come to it in whatever way you've come

to it consentually. But afterwards it's like, Okay, now we're just people and we're together and we care about each other, and we don't see that here. And and there's one scene in particular where they don't go full I mean, but he he spanks her the night of her graduation and then bails and she's upset, and it's like, yeah,

of course she's upset. She's you know, she's like still not fully understanding what's happening, and then and then he disappear years before there's any Actually, it's just like shitty, I would have I would have got I'm like, I was trying to imagine what that conversation with my mom would have been, Like I would think, I don't know,

and I went back to work. I don't understand. That's what I'm saying, Like, I think, there's he's exerting much more power over her, and there is a very big power imbalance in their relationship, whereas he seems like here's a lot of its own spoken it's like a threat. There's she's literally there's a point in the third movie where she has to like sneak out of her own

home because he has security on her. And it's just like and there's a reason for it, that isn't his fault, but like it's just there's constant reminders throughout that this man has total control over your life, and even if you tried to get away from him, he would find you. That's abuse. I mean, that's like, you know, that's the worst nightmare for any woman to not feel that she could come and go she pleases. Now, the whole time she's in Astasia is like constantly bucking his attempts to

control her completely. You don't know me, I'll do what I want and he's like, well, then I'll punish you, and she's like okay. Um, So there's this weird dynamic they're figuring out, I guess, but the fact that it all happened so quickly is just bizarre. Yeah. There there's like a I think that a very easy story fix, I mean, of the million story fix is available through this franchise. Is the only example of someone very into b D s M that we see in the first

movie anyways, is Christian Gray. So everything we see about b D s M is through his experience specifically, and that's all we have. So even if he comes to b D s M in a specific way that could happen in real life, which is that he has a past history of abuse, he is, outside of being into b D s M a manipulative and controlling person. That's one, but we there's no counter example to show the audience that that's not necessarily what a b D s M

relationship is or even what is normal. And so where everything like, we only see one person who represents this entire community, and it is directly connected to like, oh yeah, fucked up behavior kind of does tie into b DSM the way this movie presents it, like that's the bummer that yeah, so many regular Americans this is their introduction and then walk away from it going right, because that's what that is. It's just it's just a couple. You

just tire up and your spanker a little bit. And that that's because they never actually that was actually was disappointed. They never actually did some hardcore b d s M type like yes, master like that. It's pretty down, like you know, oh god. The contract negotiations scene is the only time that you really get a glimpse into like what could really be going on? What's but black? Although Movie three Weight in Movie three Day to Do do

some more advanced stuff. I remember that now he gets more advanced, he's letting him do some some more tools are added to the situation. Back to the point that was made a little bit earlier that like, so he was abused as a very young child, and I think we're meant to believe that that maybe informs part of why he is now into b d s M. But the movie frames this is like something that he needs to be cured of. Or fixed or that like his

his fetish for this. Yeah, as a result, but like, but as we discuss, like the several people I talked about were like, yes, b D s M can actually be a great way to cope with an assault or

pass abuse or something like that. But the fact that the movie frames are like he needs to be cured of this fetish that he has and there's other ways for him to So like that's problem yeah, right, yeah, because like the subtext there is like, oh, a functioning person in society would not have this intrat because he's the only person that we have to go on. Can I say though, that this movie is directed by a woman, The screenplays adapted by a woman, adapted from a book

written by a woman. It's based on a book written by a different woman. Oh yeah, right, exactly, the Stephanie Meyer. So I think that because so many women are involved in the main sort of storytelling components, I think we saw a different movie than we would have seen if he First of all, how many times does he eat

her out? That would never if men were involved. There's a lot of emphasis on her, like her face, her pleasure, And I understand that sometimes people have a problem with that more than when they're like, you know, well now it's men, or now we're all the male gaze upon her body and out that there's a little bit of

that going on. But there was definitely, like I mean there in the third movie he uses a vibrator on her, and it occurred to me, this is truly the first time I've ever seen a vibrator depicted in a movie that wasn't an opportunity to shame a woman. Can you think of any scene with a vibrator that wasn't where the woman was being made fun of because she was using a vibrator because she was old, or a mom or getting caught with it. It's almost always like a

joke like yeah, yeah, you loser. You know. It's always depicted in a way that's meant to make the woman feel bad for having having to use it. Right, it is to me, as a vibrator enthusiast, it is to me a godsend. Aliens sent it to us. They look like they look like a little alien designs, like little spaceships, and they take it to space and they're they're the best, I mean, like, and they should be used. I love

that he used it it's part of his playroom. Like I liked that they were showing things that had to do with female pleasure and not in a shameful way that we're like, you know, this is like these are tools you know, that you can all use to like make each other feel good that aren't just about the

man coming. Like in that part, I was like, Okay, that's to me evidence of women are behind this story in this movie because there's this, I think there's much of an emphasis on her pleasure experiencing pleasure from this type of relationship as there is for him experience. You don't even see him really yeah, he it's all about him making her feel good, and like you know, now the question is like what makes her feel good makes

him feel good? And then those lines you know, pushing boundaries and all those things shades great you know there. I mean, yeah, this is this Like this movie like opened such an intense, like polarizing dialect. But I think, yeah, I can't imagine the subject of consent being dealt with, I think pretty universally well without this many women involved, like involved in high roles. Well, to me, there are three ma takeaways from this movie that are very positive.

One is the emphasis on female pleasure and it being framed is a thing that not only exists because most media ignores it all together, but it's also something that is important and it should be strived for. The second thing is female nudity and it making sense for the context of the story, because so many movies will have a naked woman or you see a woman's breast and

it has nothing to do with the story. Like an example that comes to mind is like in die Hard, there's this like a topless woman who had been having sex in a room during the Christmas party and then like the terrorists coming and paying her out. But it's like, why is that in the movie? Has nothing to do with the story? Is just it was an excuse to put it right? At least in this movie, we do see a lot of female nudity, but it makes sense

because this is what the story is about. It's about sex. Yeah, you would be really, it would just make no sense to not show it or to try to Dakota Johnson, I mean give it up for her for like truly being so naked for so long in all three of those movies. I mean, it's a choice she made, and

I think she comes out on top in my opinion. Like, think about all the different ways women are naked in movies, and at least, at least in these movies, it's because she's like getting hers you know, right, Well, yeah, most movies it's just absolutely no reason, and it's through a very male gaze and very objectifying. You know, that's not the way we want to see things. The third thing that I think is a great takeaway from this movie, which we've already talked about, is the emphasis on consent.

It gets talked about a lot in most movies. Don't even mention the word or even acknowledge it as it being a concept. Um as we Yeah, like Jamie, you said there's a surprise kiss, and every other movie that we talked about's no surprise kiss in this movie. Kiss is a few lines that I wrote down him saying, it's important to know that you can leave in any time. I do this with women, women who want me to. Um. Yeah, we have to be honest with each other for this

to work. I won't do anything until I have your written consent. Like it, and it doesn't, I don't come. I was worried when it first came out that it was going to be all about people are gonna think this is what women, like an everyday woman who's you know, dudes are going to think that they can just but

it wasn't portrayed that way at all. You know, I've had my own experiences of like dudes doing things without even asking first, and it's just like, oh, my dear god, why did you think that that was acceptable, like in any universe, you know, And there's all this, you know, the z S story I think is interesting and that it brought up all these questions about consent and like that twofold one is like what is porn doing that people are watching this porn that's really really pretty borderline

violent and like a lot of choking and like I would call it skull fucking. Like we're like a guy is just literally fucking a girl's head and you know, she looks like she's dying in it, and you're and that's what people are watching, and like they're becoming desensitized to more vanilla stuff and wanting this more taboo stuff and they go and hook up with somebody and there's

a different perhaps perception, like I don't watch porn. I can't watch it because I can't stop thinking about the production and I can't get into it because I'm just like, where's the Like, God, who's I even do that a little with like even with fifty shades, I'd be like, oh man, how many times do they have to take that part? Like like good, how awkward was that? Like

let's just talk about there. That could just be a symptom of being in the business and thinking about shoots and things like, but porn just doesn't do it for me. I also think there should be like a disclaimer on every porn video that's just like, please do not try this at home, truly, but like unless you have your partners. It's like Jackassida and I've seen a little bit of porn, and I've seen stuff that like more recent stuff like I watched a couple of James videos and I was

really disturbed. And people are like, oh, he's the feminist one. This is before he had his like outing as a g and I was like kind of shocked. I was like, Oh, this is what people are into. And you know, I've

seen it. I mean I've worked on shows where they like pull up porn on you know, for some for reasire for something that's questionable, m and you know you have seen stuff, and I thought, oh my god, like my perception of what is acceptable is so far off of like, so when when you enter into a hook up with somebody, even if you think you know that person, like you don't know what they've been watching. And I just wondered, like, what is porn doing to young men?

And then the second piece of the disease thing that, like I thought about while watching fifty Shades all the way through again was Christian Greg like you said, clearly cares about her feelings at every step of the way. Now we can argue there's points where it's like, oh, he completely just dismissed her signal of like hey, I don't want you showing up at my work, um, and

he's like I will, Um. There's those kinds of things, But sexually, he is very concerned about her feelings and that was my thing of like, no matter how you read these story, you can't deny the fact that he

did not care about her feelings in that. And at what point people when people go, oh, technically, I didn't see any laws broken, And it's like that every time sex do not at one point do you give a shit about the other person and like check in with them, Hey, is this here's the whole I saw a tweet that was like the whole Like she was just like it was just like sucking a dead body, Like she just laid there. And it's like maybe she didn't like it

and ignored that. And he's like saying, anything, Yeah, I my one thing that I mean, we've we've touched on it, this whole, this whole thing that the main thing for me is just like making sure and this probably this probably doesn't happen for like someone who is like a mom who's coming into this all of us for the first time. Is making sure that it's it's okay to

have an abusive relationship depicted on screen. Right. But but they do not do a good job of separating what is a b D s M behavior from what is an abusive behavior. It's lumped in as all the same thing. So the things that we see over and over are the stalking behaviors that's not kinky. Stalking someone isn't kinky. Showing up at their mom's place is not kink unless that's something they've previously agreed upon, which which controlling someone's

actions without their consent is not kinky. Baiting someone with sort of genuine but mostly not genuine intimacy just because you know that that will keep them coming back without their consent is not kinky. And that is it's also globbed up into the one character who's interested in b d S. I'm in the entire movie that those lines aren't drawn, and I like it sucks because it's like there are They're way more positive takeaways from this movie

than I ever would have imagined. And I really and and for all, and I have like a shortlist of all the ways that this movie is exactly like Twilight, down to like girl interested in books, never sex before like which is And she trips sometimes because she's clumsy, but I but I like, I like and staged up and saved. Yeah, but I like Anastasia. She's like she's like her better than Bella Swan. Yeah, I just I mean, but she's like, I've older, less of an annoying teenager.

I understand, Like, you know, she she's like, you know, whatever, woman in her early twenties who doesn't know that much. But she is a more active character than I thought she was going to be advocates for herself more than I thought she would, calls him out more than I thought she would, and ultimately sets the boundary is like,

you know, off for now. So I just I wish that this movie, for all the good stuff it does with like consent and bringing a relationship like this into the mainstream, it doesn't do a good job with saying like, Okay, this is how this B D s M relationship works, but don't think that in the second and third. By the third they've kind of moved away from is it a B D s M relationship? Is it not? They've kind of moved away from that, and they're into there's

other like very maladramatic stuff happening. Um, that's like more outside factors are now affecting their lives, like you know, like stalkers and the voltri real enemies. Yeah, definitely, like there's Yeah, I found myself at moments during the third movie being like, oh man, I really rich a rich man, which just come take me away. Well, that's the other thing is portraying B D s M. Is this very cosmopolitan rich boy thing too. Yeah, which I thought was

kind of funny. Is just like I'm into kinky stuff and me have a helicopter and now you get a car, and I wrote down, I want a sex laptop. Where is my sex laptop? Get me my free sex laptop. At one point during the third movie, they get into a private jet and she's like, you own this, and I'm like, bitch, have you not paid a vehicles ever? It's only been eight weeks, so just like, yeah, we're

seeing there like Halo period. But as someone who grew up secretly watching Real Sex on HBO late at night as quiet as I could while still hearing it, I already knew going into this movie that kink has nothing to do with class or attractiveness, because Real Sex featured some very everyday, average looking people doing very kinky stuff and to the point where it was like kind of hilarious. Anyway, I love real sex and that's where I got my education about sex. Can I run down the ways in

which E. L. James lifts directly from Twilight? In the first movie Alan Okay, so protagonist girl who read rigin, there is a character who's like the boy who's around who has a crush on her, who is like, wait, you don't have a crush on me? Back I'm furious, and then he gets hit shitty mom who doesn't show up to important life events because of her most recent husband, which we see in Twilight with Bella's mom and her baseball boyfriend that she's like, sorry, Hun, can't make your

high school graduation. My boyfriend's in the batting cage, and I don't want to seem unsupportive. And then yeah, mom, mom being such a romantic that she's basically handicapped at being a good parent. Oh even though the very hot, intelligent female protagonist, she's a little bit quiet, but somehow every man that comes into contact with her, in love with her, obsessed with her, can't get over it. It's

just something special, right, There's just something about you. And it's like she has not said she's read a book. The piano scene, literally the pianos scene, same exact thing as Twilight, wait till the third movie scene. That's like

what the funk? Like we didn't know the whole time. Oh, and then the weirdly close wealthy family dynamic that who with the family It was like, oh, this is kind of like Edward Collins very close, creepy, so close, it's creepy family where Marcia gay Harden's like this, what's this? Also shout out Marcia Gyard really enjoyed her presence in this, and she knows exactly what movie she's in. It's so good and Pacific Northwest. They're like, let's not relocate it.

So yeah, if there was any doubt that you were shut out to your favorite movie, don't. If there are any doubt two thousand and eight and actor's film John Patrick Shanley that this was based on Twilight originally. I mean the flags are everywhere. Replace vampires with kink because Edward Callings a fucking stalker to exactly the only other we haven't. We've mentioned her once, but I don't even know if we measure my name. The other female character

in her roommate, Kate Takes Yeah, Kate. Weird Kate. There's a very uncanny Valley quality about Kate because she's there to ask questions. Very weird b story about Kate and the third movie that's like this wasn't necessary at all. Kate hangs out, she sticks around well because she's she's

sucking his brother. The brother is like, ye, just a du fist, Like he's like like Combaine Mountain, like in the first movie, like where they're like the brunette couple is like the smart ones, and then the blonde ones are like they just walk in on them fucking and they're like, hey, put your pants on, blonde people. The

brunette It's like, what is happening. This is another example of a movie that where the romantic relationship it's not necessarily ever really clear why the two characters like each other or why I setting the whole the b DA something completely aside the person of the shape of water that yeah, she gives them an egg and now they're in love, carrying around any given time making people fall in love with me. But yeah, I mean so many movies do not handle this well where we actually see

what the two characters are compatible over and why. I'm so so sorry that was a debt collector. Yeah, so, I just I just don't know why it's so hard for movies about romance to actually depict romance well in a way we're like, oh, we understand why Anastasia would like Christian, and why Christian The only reason that's given is like Christians just like I can't stay away from you, and I guess she likes him because he's rich, like

I don't know. There was one line where he and this is at the very beginning where he was just like he knew what like the name of three books, and you could tell she was impressed by that. I'm like, oh, this is hag but I get there. She's like bare minimum. Oh no, I totally agree. I just I'm like, they tried exactly one time, but I noticed that just like, oh yeah, also I can read and she's likesten Bronte. Yeah. Anyway, I will say that I'm pretty sure this movie passes

the back to test and its first spoken words. In the very first scene of the first movie, they're talking in a way. They're talking about Christian Greg because it has to do with the fact that she's leaving to go interview him. He has not explicitly stated. So the very first scene they're just talking about, like, you know, good luck. Is that what you're wearing? Are you take my car? I have a GPS, like, yeah, they don't.

They're talking about like her. But I think that the interview with him, but that he does not actually get stated, so I would guess that it. I think that scene passes even though the context of the conversation is about interviewing a man. However, yeah, I would Most of the scenes after of that are either Annestatian Kate or Anastasia talks to his mom very briefly a few times, but usually most of the conversations are about Christian Gray. I was genuinely, I like, I yelped. I was like, did

this movie just pass a minute? One can't believe it there, but yeah, Kate quickly just becomes a little like how do you feel? Listening to the way that Kate addresses her not being a virgin anymore is very bizarre, where she was like, how do you feel? And I goes, I feel different and she's like, yeah you do. I was like, oh, that's the end of the conversation. Great, cool, and then analogs into her sex laptop and answers sex emails that her sex boyfriend is sex harassing her with

lots of harassing emails in this movie. Yeah, shall we rate the movie on our nipple scale? Let's do it all right, based on the portrayals Lemon, we have a nipple scale of zero to five, nipples five being the best. Okay, I'm gonna have to just sort of talk through this one because, like I said, there are a few major things that I think the movie does really well, and that it promotes consent as being a very important thing.

Female nudity is not gratuitous and actually makes sense in the context of the story for once, and female pleasure is framed as something that is good and that that's something that you should strive for. However, the romantic relationship, if you can um call it that, because he's so reluctant to say that he need I don't do romance. I fuck hard, I don't make love. I fuck hard.

That was a big moment in Miami. For all intents of persons, We'll call it a romantic relationship because it is, like you said, Jamie, him being abusive and predatory is lumped in with the B D s M aspect of their relationship and not separated as those two things should be, and his predatory behavior not being framed as something thing that's problematic in the movie. It almost kind of cancels

out the good things of it. It's weird. It's weird because and then also it's like, Okay, they don't separate those behaviors, and then so as a result, the audience takeaway is that b DSM proclivity is a thing to be cured and not just a part of someone that can be accepted, because it looks so dangerous the way it's presented in the movie. Right, So with that in mind, I think I'm going to give it one nipple, okay, because for all of its positive things, I think those

are immediately canceled out by the negative parts of the movie. So, um, one nipple. I will give it to Anastasia's bare nipple that you've seen many many times. I'm going to give it to. Okay. I thought maybe one was too low, but I'm sticking with one follower. I'm gonna give it to. And I do feel like if I saw three movies, I might feel a little bit different, but based on the first movie alone, I'm going to give it too. I wish just in general, I mean, it's a movie

a better relationship between two people. I wish that the female be characters were given more to do and more to contribute other than just asking Anastasia how she's feeling. Because it's bad writing and also because we don't know anything about them. So the way that b characters are treated, especially with the women was like pretty lazy, and I feel like we could have gotten a lot more by

using them more. But Anna as a character, I do like her and I feel for her, and I think she is disserviced in a lot of ways, primarily by how her partner represents all things kink and how consent is dealt with well. So much is not dealt with well. But based on our central female protagonist, I like her. I feel for her. I was like excited and like rooted for her when she got horrors, recognized where her boundary was and was like, I'm out. But then I

mean there's again. Whenever we do a story that's like, this story is badly written, it's a it's a challenge from moment one, but I'll get I will give this too. I'll give one to Anna, and I'm gonna give one to Marcia gay Harden because she's a woman in stem she's a doctor. She's a doctor. I'll give it too. I wish I could give it less because I wish the bar was higher, right, but we're just so desperate for like anything that's not created by a man, written

by men. You know, like this does feel different and it's like I can see a little bit of the light cracking through the you know the brock. Yeah, on the right track, a good start. Let's get a better written story, let's better acting, more complex story. Show is more kinky Seattle stories. Fraser like movies that celebrate women's sexuality, like Magic Mike and like, you know, they're just it's

fun to go see those movies. And I agree that, like women should be able to go see movies like this, Twilight, you know whatever. I mean, the most fun I've ever had in movie theaters are those types of movies. Like I went to Twilight the first one, tears were streaming down my face. I was laughing so fucking hard because the women in the audience were going nuts teen girls. I mean every time when like um, Taylor Lawtner came on the screen, they were like like and I was

just like, oh my god. It was like women were just like in their in their element. Like it was like we were having like a witch, you know, gathering the wood. So great. Yeah. And then the other one was, um, I went to see a Magic Mike screening that was so fun that like it was Magic Mike too, and it was just like everyone was dying laughing throughout the

whole movie. It was so fun. And then the other one, which I'll never forget, was I went to the opening night in New York of He's Just Not That Into You, and it was almost all women in the audience and like everyone had brought wine, like snuck in wine. I mean, who were like wasted, And it was like so fucking funny because there was one moment where that would be a good one for you all to do, if you

haven't already haven't. No, I remember I saw that after my first He's Just It's I loved the movie, but I've never hated another book more in my entire life. I think I hate, Yeah, I hate the idea of it. But the movie was very entertaining, It was very and it was really fun to be in a movie theater.

But but there's a moment in a movie that's like the big dramatic, like proposal moment, and no joke, you could hear this ripple across the theater where it was dead quiet and then just a sort of wave of laugher because every woman was crying, and then it was like you're crying, No, you're crying, and everyone started sucking laughing and it was so funny. It was just like it's like there's just not that many movies where it's like women, where centers women in a way that like

and we are like a force like Twilight. These are juggernauts. They made so much money, but they were treated like a second fiddle to be a fair horrible superhero movies that are just absolute ship. What do you mean? Justice League was great? There's there, Yeah, there's so there are so few places where like groups of women from all different all different walks of life you can just like get into the same room and have like a weird,

silly good time. And so I never want to be like fifty Shades of Grade shouldn't exist, Like it's got a ton of problems, but I'm thrilled it exist because it gives you, like that good cathartic experience that it's super hard to find anywhere except the movie. Worth mentioning, this is a very white movie. This is a very hetero movie. Yes, a lot of straight these a lot of white people, as with most movies, which is no excuse, but you know follows the trend absolutely well. Sarah is

so much for being here right with us. Where can people follow you? What would you like to play? Follow me on Twitter, Instagram, Sara Shape for one across the board. And I have this new podcast which I'm really excited about, which is sort of weird and it's like Me and the Future commenting on right now. It's got like a fictional element to it of fantasy dystopian thing going on, plus real topical discussion. Um and what's the name of your podcasting It's called Loner at coy Wolf Creek being

like a combination of species of already exists. There's a new species of animal where some cut kyotes and wolves and dogs a little bit of dog in their dogs. Yes, Christian gray wolf. Okay, oh, there's already a wolf thing. It's Twilight Taylor Lautner. Hey. You can follow the backtel Cast on all the social media platforms Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. You can write and review us on iTunes. You can

buy our merch online what oh my gosh. You can also subscribe to our Patreon give us five dollars a month and then you get to bonus episodes of the backtel Cast every month. It's a win win win, win win win. And other than that, I just want everyone to know that I fuck hard. I fu hard to see you in the playroom. That was like you might not if you have to say it, I actually fuck very soft. Sounds good. Thank you, but a T shirt. Okay, bye bye